Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: SmokenFly on July 02, 2012, 09:16:12 am

Title: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 02, 2012, 09:16:12 am
Highway blocked, 3 lanes closed looks like 2 bikes, silver blankets could not see much was concentrating on road. RIP to the rider / s
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: laurika on July 02, 2012, 09:18:11 am
bugger.... hate those silver blankets....
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Veldbrand on July 02, 2012, 09:30:53 am
 :( :( :(
Just too many deaths on our roads.
RIP.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 02, 2012, 09:44:26 am
However, I have noticed some real Darwin Awards challengers on their bikes of late on the freeway.

No debating - it is very unfortunate when someone dies, and our condolences.

BUT, most of these people have brought this upon themselves.  I drive carefully when I see bikes, expecting the worst, and many have successfully exceeded my expectations and really risked themselves in just missing the cars.  If you give them right of way you are seen as a"weakling" and simply given them what is their right anyway.

For example - the centre lane around Joburg, quite a few bikes that are doing in excess of 150 km/h in the traffic.  Well, stupidity rules.  Also when the lanes are standing they are running at 120 along there.

Tangle with a car on a bike and you will come second - I promise you!

After a few near misses and the threats because I drove normally!  Well, with that I now have little sympathy for a biker who gets toasted.  Because he deserved it!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 02, 2012, 09:49:12 am
Too close to home - sad ... RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: IDR on July 02, 2012, 09:50:08 am
Sheesh - saying someone deserves to die is a bit harsh.

RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Manic on July 02, 2012, 09:57:14 am
RIP  :'(
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Old fart on July 02, 2012, 10:03:31 am
Never nice to hear or read about this. Seems such a waste of life. RIP.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kenisis on July 02, 2012, 10:04:46 am
Sad, How is it that two bikes get tangled in one accident.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 02, 2012, 10:06:49 am
Sheesh - saying someone deserves to die is a bit harsh.

RIP

Ja bietjie hectic daai  :eek7: :eek7:


Apparently it was one bike that smacked the back of a car. It was pretty smashed up so that is maybe why it looked like two
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: billy-joe on July 02, 2012, 10:11:51 am
never nice to hear of these things,  i do agree that some guys dont ride in a responsible manner.  if sh1t happens, there is no time to save your own arse..
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: BFG on July 02, 2012, 10:17:45 am
RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dish on July 02, 2012, 10:19:43 am
I have to agree with Rog..... not saying anyone deserves to die BUT as a "newbie" im also exceptionally cautious on the bike and now even more so in the car.... I pay a lot (sometimes to much i think ) of attention to this site and the accidents. Mostly they scare the bejeepers out of me wondering if I have done the right thing buying a bike to commute....

Then

My everyday driving experiences I see some of the most unbelieveable things that some bikers do and I cannot help comparing my riding style to theirs.... i see okes lane splitting in heavy traffic at breakneck speeds.... I see okes screaming towards oncoming cars on the wrong side of the road only to force there way in front of a car on the right side of the road at the very last second...I have seen a guy coming round a corner on the wrong side of the road WAAYYY to fast right in front of me as he overcooked the corner and narrowly missing me. He hits me Im TOAST as well as him... im often left speechless at the way some okes ride.....

So how many of these okes do bring it upon themselves.... ?? In the flying community we see accidents and we all wish them condolences and the very best wishes.... but we all know that there are some proper "stirrers" out there and we know they are going to come short at some stage.... just a matter of time..

Im terribly sorry about this mornings accident and not for a minute am I saying that this chap is one of them.... Im merely asking if the ratios can be slanted by very very poor riding...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 02, 2012, 10:28:03 am
A number of these arseholes have no respect for me when I am out walking my horses in the suburbs and race past me with little regard for my safety.  What happens if the horse spooks and I get injured or paralysed.  Why must they do 120-130 in a suburb where the speed limit is 60?  And now the pattern of behaviour is carried over into their general behaviour.

They honestly do not care because the speeds that they are doing in built up areas shows this.  
What about the fact that there is a school on my walk that they race past?  And if it was your children endangered by the reckless driving?

Until they learn that the bike is a form of transport and not entertainment on a public road, "good luck ter ye" (ala swamp people).  Yet these people are always missing when it is time to go fast on the race track under controlled conditions.

Just read about the other bikers who are forced off the roads due to the pig headedness of the few.  Better they cull themselves off and leave us all to ride in safety.  No sympathy.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 02, 2012, 10:31:17 am
Iemand het 'n blou Maandag lyk my  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dish on July 02, 2012, 10:34:07 am
Yep - take it easy out there lads, enough cuc on our roads without us causing more for ourselves.....
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Veldbrand on July 02, 2012, 10:40:10 am
Do you know the exact circumstances of the above mentioned incident Roger?
Just maybe a bit harsh there Sir.
Every fatality has its unique set of parameters.
Sure there are asses out there but to celebrate and wish them a speedy death is not cool.
Rather try to educate them twats to be more responsible bikers.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 02, 2012, 10:49:59 am
Do you know the exact circumstances of the above mentioned incident Roger?
Just maybe a bit harsh there Sir.
Every fatality has its unique set of parameters.
Sure there are asses out there but to celebrate and wish them a speedy death is not cool.
Rather try to educate them twats to be more responsible bikers.

Agreed  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: billy-joe on July 02, 2012, 11:00:34 am
you ever tried to educate a twat!   :biggrin: even if i dont take your thoughts literally, which i dont, a lot of these guys will be the type that swears at you if you try to show them what they're doing is wrong. 

but lets be honest, we've all done some doff things in the past.  just that some of us have learnt from our mistakes.

let US just try be more careful and hope that those out there that are being a bit reckless learn to live to see another day.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Veldbrand on July 02, 2012, 11:09:24 am
you ever tried to educate a twat!   :biggrin: even if i dont take your thoughts literally, which i dont, a lot of these guys will be the type that swears at you if you try to show them what they're doing is wrong. 

but lets be honest, we've all done some doff things in the past.  just that some of us have learnt from our mistakes.

let US just try be more careful and hope that those out there that are being a bit reckless learn to live to see another day.


There, you just said it.
It is possible.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 02, 2012, 11:13:43 am
Iemand het 'n blou Maandag lyk my  :peepwall:

Nie 'n blou Maandag, maar 'n blou Sondag.

Gister het 'n klomp op hulle motorfietse verby ek en my vrou gejaag toe ons die perde gaan stap.  Oor die 120 km/h maklik sonder baffles en al.  Toe rev die okie langs my.  En ek sit op een van die jonger perde en as hom kan leer om nie opgewonde in die verkeer te raak het ek 'n goeie perd vir die res van sy lewe.  Maar neuk dit op en ek sit met probleme vir baie jare...en dan wil hulle nog stop en baklei!

If I had a gun on me I would have shot at them.  No sympathy.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 02, 2012, 11:16:43 am
In the interests of peace and harmony, I will withdraw my outburst.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kawasefi on July 02, 2012, 11:39:36 am
I spoke to my boet Sparro this morning, he witnessed what I think is probably this accident. He was right behind the guy when it happened, he might check in later to give his account of it...  :( 
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: The Silver Fox on July 02, 2012, 12:26:24 pm
Wow so sad to here this. Dont know why some people ride so fast in traffic. I ride my bike to work every day and i see this.There is a chick with a long blond platted pony tail riding a super 10 i see on Witkoppen and Cristiaan de wet. PLEASE if someone knows her tell her we not trying to race. Shes hectic
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: punisher on July 02, 2012, 12:58:08 pm
R I P
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 02, 2012, 01:02:24 pm
Wow so sad to here this. Dont know why some people ride so fast in traffic. I ride my bike to work every day and i see this.There is a chick with a long blond platted pony tail riding a super 10 i see on Witkoppen and Cristiaan de wet. PLEASE if someone knows her tell her we not trying to race. Shes hectic

I see the same girl, she rides like a bat out of hell  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 02, 2012, 01:57:55 pm
Wow so sad to here this. Dont know why some people ride so fast in traffic. I ride my bike to work every day and i see this.There is a chick with a long blond platted pony tail riding a super 10 i see on Witkoppen and Cristiaan de wet. PLEASE if someone knows her tell her we not trying to race. Shes hectic
If it's a black one (S10), then I know who you talking about - a tall chick - don't remember her name - I think she's BikerMom on WD - I gave her and her bike a lift once after a day's ride. I think she had a Red Honda 650 and had a puncture or som'in.

She stops next to me cr Malibongwe and Witkoppen and recognises my trailer and my offroad bike - stops and says hi - tells me she's swopped bikes  - then laughs and blasts off  :biggrin:

<<< Edited - found her WD ID - BikerMom >>>
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Geotraveller on July 02, 2012, 03:58:34 pm
Regardless of circumstances always a sad thing if anybody dies....RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: bronzy on July 02, 2012, 04:03:15 pm
RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: XXL on July 02, 2012, 04:10:28 pm
RIP.

Yesterday near the zoo, two guys, one on a Harley XR1200 and one on a Buell racing between the traffic ???....Ai Tog, I just dont understand!!!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kerritz on July 02, 2012, 04:13:32 pm
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Motorfietsryer-sterf-in-Randburg-20120702
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on July 02, 2012, 04:19:18 pm
Shame, that is very sad.. RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: billy-joe on July 02, 2012, 05:35:03 pm
you ever tried to educate a twat!   :biggrin: even if i dont take your thoughts literally, which i dont, a lot of these guys will be the type that swears at you if you try to show them what they're doing is wrong. 

but lets be honest, we've all done some doff things in the past.  just that some of us have learnt from our mistakes.

let US just try be more careful and hope that those out there that are being a bit reckless learn to live to see another day.


There, you just said it.
It is possible.

all in good time hey...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: sparro on July 02, 2012, 07:42:23 pm
I spoke to my boet Sparro this morning, he witnessed what I think is probably this accident. He was right behind the guy when it happened, he might check in later to give his account of it...  :( 

Ja well,  I was riding 2 bikes behind this guy.   We were doing about 80-90 kmh in the emergency lane next to fast lane.  The lady driver swerved right and knocked the bike's tail, effectively ramming him against the concrete barrier.  He then bounced off the barried and hit another car and then slumped onto the tarmac.  With the impact his Shark helmet came off and his head got whacked pretty hard against the car and the tar a few times.

A CMA rider and I pulled up and he blocked the traffic with his bike.  He's a marshall at cycling events, so had a 1st aid kit with him.  We pulled a few cars broadside to stop traffic over 3 lanes as the debris and shit was all over the place, We started CPR and traded places with a helpfull motorist when out of breath.  About 10 min later there was no sign of life and it was clear he was gone.

I just sat on the concrete barrier, took my gear off and watched as the paramedics eventually arrived.  Gave the CMA guy the cellphone and wallet that I picked up and the paramedics called his mom.  They do this everyday, so they just told her that her son was in a prang on the highway, he didn't survive the crash and she needs to get to Randburg police station to ID the body.   My mother would sure as hell have a heart attack.  The woman who actually knocked the guy was in a pretty bad state.  Asking all the time whether it was her fault and crying because she actually killed someone's son.  I was very angry because i've seen this so many times before, but this time I saw her hitting the guy barely 20m ahead of me.

Its a pretty bad feeling seeing a person trying to hold onto life and despite our best efforts, slipped away forever.  So eventually just got back onto the bike and rode on to work in a haze of anger and and deep sorrow.  You know, we see and greet each other almost everyday without really knowing the other guy and I guess there's an invisible bond between bikers.  So many other bikers stopped and offered assistance, some guys just standing there with bowed heads and tears because this is just so unnecessary. One thing is for sure,  I ride with a Shoei and Arai, both with double D-ring system.  This Shark had a clip-in mechanism and it came undone.  I'll rather ride with a helmet that costs more than the bike and I'm certainly buying a neck-brace too.

I don't know how I'm going to ride past the same spot tomorrow, maybe I'll just use Witkoppen for a while until this has faded a bit.
.

So thats my Monday.  RIP friend.   
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kerritz on July 02, 2012, 07:52:22 pm
Eeeish....I read your reply 3 times now Sparro.......yes...we make a conscious decision when we buy or get on our our bikes. But still....some things are completely out of your hands or control. I experienced something similar witnessing a car accident many many years ago being a pedestrian next to the road. Also tried our utmost best to save a life...but to no avail.

It still spooks me when I think of it.....every time. I hope your day ends better than the way it started. Good on you for trying though.

Some things never make sense in life....and it will take a while before it fades...if it ever does.

RIP.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 02, 2012, 07:52:47 pm
Iemand het 'n blou Maandag lyk my  :peepwall:

Nie 'n blou Maandag, maar 'n blou Sondag.

Gister het 'n klomp op hulle motorfietse verby ek en my vrou gejaag toe ons die perde gaan stap.  Oor die 120 km/h maklik sonder baffles en al.  Toe rev die okie langs my.  En ek sit op een van die jonger perde en as hom kan leer om nie opgewonde in die verkeer te raak het ek 'n goeie perd vir die res van sy lewe.  Maar neuk dit op en ek sit met probleme vir baie jare...en dan wil hulle nog stop en baklei!

If I had a gun on me I would have shot at them.  No sympathy.  Sorry.

Who are you, the Ruiter in Swart?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Geriatrix on July 02, 2012, 07:56:02 pm
Sheesh - saying someone deserves to die is a bit harsh.

RIP

I am a relative newbie to biking, but not to death.
I often hope that a rider kills himself without killing anyone else.
Too many innocents have died because of stupid, stupid people who believe that they are the centre of the universe.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Oshkosh on July 02, 2012, 07:58:08 pm
Very Sad RIP!!!! :'(
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Geriatrix on July 02, 2012, 08:01:20 pm
I spoke to my boet Sparro this morning, he witnessed what I think is probably this accident. He was right behind the guy when it happened, he might check in later to give his account of it...  :(  

Ja well,  I was riding 2 bikes behind this guy.   We were doing about 80-90 kmh in the emergency lane next to fast lane.


So thats my Monday.  RIP friend.  

What was the emergency that needed you to be in that lane?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 02, 2012, 08:12:13 pm
Iemand het 'n blou Maandag lyk my  :peepwall:

Nie 'n blou Maandag, maar 'n blou Sondag.

Gister het 'n klomp op hulle motorfietse verby ek en my vrou gejaag toe ons die perde gaan stap.  Oor die 120 km/h maklik sonder baffles en al.  Toe rev die okie langs my.  En ek sit op een van die jonger perde en as hom kan leer om nie opgewonde in die verkeer te raak het ek 'n goeie perd vir die res van sy lewe.  Maar neuk dit op en ek sit met probleme vir baie jare...en dan wil hulle nog stop en baklei!

If I had a gun on me I would have shot at them.  No sympathy.  Sorry.

Who are you, the Ruiter in Swart?

Ha ha.  So it is OK for somebody to endanger my life "as a joke" in front of his friends.  Not to mention my wife riding alongside me and as she has had a back op for a riding accident, but hey it is all OK!  WTF!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: punisher on July 02, 2012, 08:14:47 pm
sorry you had to experience  and condolences to all involved
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 02, 2012, 08:17:45 pm
I spoke to my boet Sparro this morning, he witnessed what I think is probably this accident. He was right behind the guy when it happened, he might check in later to give his account of it...  :(  

Ja well,  I was riding 2 bikes behind this guy.   We were doing about 80-90 kmh in the emergency lane next to fast lane.


So thats my Monday.  RIP friend.  

What was the emergency that needed you to be in that lane?

It is the norm now - flaunting of the road regulations at any opportunity.

90 km/h against stationary traffic - ride into a wall at 90 km/h and see if you live.  And the traumatised lady in her car - what if that was your wife?  And who is going to put her life back together for her?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 02, 2012, 08:20:17 pm
I hope this settles the debate about riding in the emergency lane
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 02, 2012, 08:20:24 pm
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: sparro on July 02, 2012, 08:25:45 pm
I spoke to my boet Sparro this morning, he witnessed what I think is probably this accident. He was right behind the guy when it happened, he might check in later to give his account of it...  :(  

Ja well,  I was riding 2 bikes behind this guy.   We were doing about 80-90 kmh in the emergency lane next to fast lane.


So thats my Monday.  RIP friend.  

What was the emergency that needed you to be in that lane?

Much safer there than filtering in between the cages my friend, especially at a decent speed ( the traffic was moving nicely at about 80kmh before the sh*t hit the fan), and I don't have the spirit to fight or argue about it tonight.  I've seen this one bad accident happen in the emergency lane, all the others I've seen on this highway in 4 years happened between lanes when guys got cut off by blind cage pilots.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Geriatrix on July 02, 2012, 08:26:51 pm
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.


You are sick.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: GO GIRL on July 02, 2012, 08:42:03 pm
Whew just read this now .....Sparro good on you ...but how sad when you witness
an event and are part of that can fully comprehend your thoughts ....doubt whether
that scene, that feeling of helplessness will fade...

as you say that bond between bikers......

RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Buelligan on July 02, 2012, 08:52:49 pm
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.


You are sick.
Agreed 100 % Geriatrix

Emergency lane is NOT a lane for everyday use, but as an emergency escape route should one need to take evasive action, breakdown or for an emergency vehicle to get through traffic quickly
So in the absence of sirens, that lane should be open......not being used as a normal lane.
It also so happens that it is against the law to travel between the barrier line and the verge, in this case the wall.

I am truly saddened by the loss of a life, especially another biker, in this way

My condolences go out to the riders family and friends AND to the poor unfortunate lady driver.  :'(   :'(    :'(
She swerved to avoid a collision and sadly hit a biker who should not have been there in the first place

P.S  I split legally everyday and often nearly get taken out by cars in the fast lane, swerving out after getting a fright from the guys that come roaring past way to quickly where they have NO LEGAL right to be  !

Sparro strongs to you for trying to help.....
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: TheBear on July 02, 2012, 08:58:40 pm
Please people, do not ride in the emergecy lane.  It gives you a false sense of security.  It is NOT safe.  Apart from all the debris that piles up there, people swerve into it regularly without checking, especially if tey experience some emergency.  Also, it is illegal to ride there.  How many more must die in that lane before we learn?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: bmad on July 02, 2012, 09:18:20 pm
I spoke to my boet Sparro this morning, he witnessed what I think is probably this accident. He was right behind the guy when it happened, he might check in later to give his account of it...  :( 

Ja well,  I was riding 2 bikes behind this guy.   We were doing about 80-90 kmh in the emergency lane next to fast lane.  The lady driver swerved right and knocked the bike's tail, effectively ramming him against the concrete barrier.  He then bounced off the barried and hit another car and then slumped onto the tarmac.  With the impact his Shark helmet came off and his head got whacked pretty hard against the car and the tar a few times.

A CMA rider and I pulled up and he blocked the traffic with his bike.  He's a marshall at cycling events, so had a 1st aid kit with him.  We pulled a few cars broadside to stop traffic over 3 lanes as the debris and shit was all over the place, We started CPR and traded places with a helpfull motorist when out of breath.  About 10 min later there was no sign of life and it was clear he was gone.

I just sat on the concrete barrier, took my gear off and watched as the paramedics eventually arrived.  Gave the CMA guy the cellphone and wallet that I picked up and the paramedics called his mom.  They do this everyday, so they just told her that her son was in a prang on the highway, he didn't survive the crash and she needs to get to Randburg police station to ID the body.   My mother would sure as hell have a heart attack.  The woman who actually knocked the guy was in a pretty bad state.  Asking all the time whether it was her fault and crying because she actually killed someone's son.  I was very angry because i've seen this so many times before, but this time I saw her hitting the guy barely 20m ahead of me.

Its a pretty bad feeling seeing a person trying to hold onto life and despite our best efforts, slipped away forever.  So eventually just got back onto the bike and rode on to work in a haze of anger and and deep sorrow.  You know, we see and greet each other almost everyday without really knowing the other guy and I guess there's an invisible bond between bikers.  So many other bikers stopped and offered assistance, some guys just standing there with bowed heads and tears because this is just so unnecessary. One thing is for sure,  I ride with a Shoei and Arai, both with double D-ring system.  This Shark had a clip-in mechanism and it came undone.  I'll rather ride with a helmet that costs more than the bike and I'm certainly buying a neck-brace too.

I don't know how I'm going to ride past the same spot tomorrow, maybe I'll just use Witkoppen for a while until this has faded a bit.
.

So thats my Monday.  RIP friend.   

Sparro, quick question...

Was it a girl on a bike that hit the other bike and then he came off?
Just trying to understand what happened. You mention that she got back on her bike and rode off.

I travel that highway daily between malibongwe and M1. I know it is not right to travel in the emergency lane, but I do. There are more bikes there in the morning and it seems like the cars find it the 'right place' for the bikes to be.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Would I? on July 02, 2012, 09:28:01 pm
Very Sad. RIP. :(
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Hondsekierie on July 02, 2012, 09:28:15 pm
Hel, dis altyd vreeslik 'sad' om hierdie 'posts' te lees.  As ek die storie so uitcheck lyk dit my die man het bietjie reels gebreek toe die kak die 'fan' gestrike het.  Probleem is met n bike eindig n mistyk gewoonlik in pyn maar soms erger, in dood.  

Ek is net baie bly ek commute nie met n bike (respek vir die wat doen).  Wil net byvoeg dat die kwaliteit van ryers oor die algemeen besig is om sewerage pipe avenue te gaan.  

Ek kry gereeld bikers wat my op Ben Schoeman teen 180+ verby vat terwyl die traffic teen 100km/h ry, of 200km/h+ terwyl ons @ 120km/h beweeg, of 100km/h as ons @ 20/km/h beweeg. Kan julle die common denominator sien?

Die 80km/h spoedverskil!!

(PS:  En dan het van hierdie manne nog n 'up-yours' left right and centre te gooi!  Ai fok)
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: sparro on July 02, 2012, 09:35:12 pm
Nope, it wasn't two bikes.  Just the lady car driver, a greyish small Kia/Suzuki or something, clearly damaged on the front, driver side as she struck the bike.  He went down and there were no other bikes involved.  At some point there were quite a few bikes parked at the scene as the guys arrived to offer assistance.

No girl on a bike either, I mean't that i eventually rode off as there were many witnesses hanging about and nothing more I could do.

So, if its such a bad and dangerous thing to ride the emergency lane, and even worse filtering, i should perhaps just keep the bike parked under covers during the week and sit in the cage every day and listen to the crap on radio like all the other lemmings, especially the dude in the orange Porche GT2 :bootyshake:

At least it will be warmer, I can take coffee on the trip  :sip: and save mileage on the bike.  My car is actually lighter on juice too !   So from an all-weather biker to a fair weather weekend motorcyclist in one day...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 02, 2012, 09:42:59 pm
We were doing about 80-90 kmh in the emergency lane next to fast lane. 

There's your explanation.

I see people doing it whenever I'm in Gauteng. Sorry for sounding 'callous' but it's wrong, illegal and lethal - as the very existence of this thread proves.

This lane isn't a 'biker convenience' lane. The moment us bikers assume that we have certain rights over and above those of motorists we tread on very thin ice. A speed of 80 -90 km/h is neither here nor there and depends on the speed of the cars you're overtaking. If there's enough of a discrepancy between your speed (say 80) and theirs (say 40), then 80 is highly dangerous.

Most road users (two or four wheels) do not grasp this fact.

However, RIP biker.  :-\

PS: I think we should stop being so thin skinned and try and actually learn lessons why people die. If we cannot discuss these incidents and learn from them we might as well get the real facts on Facebook.  :)
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 02, 2012, 09:43:58 pm
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.


You are sick.

My dear friend, read the eyewitness account again, yes the biker was speeding, and yes, he was in the emergency lane. Consider one question; does he deserve to have died for this? Because if the woman in the car did only one small thing, incidentally required for her to have done by law, that is to have looked into her rearview mirror BEFORE swerving, this father/brother/uncle/boyfriend/friend would have been alive still.
So I stand by what I said, I hope her conscience drives her fucked-up. For she would have taken out any of us even in the right lane, because she is one of the many claiming; "sorry, I did not see you"
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: DR BIG 750 on July 02, 2012, 09:44:24 pm
RIP
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 02, 2012, 09:49:29 pm
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.


You are sick.

My dear friend, read the eyewitness account again, yes the biker was speeding, and yes, he was in the emergency lane. Consider one question; does he deserve to have died for this? Because if the woman in the car did only one small thing, incidentally required for her to have done by law, that is to have looked into her rearview mirror BEFORE swerving, this father/brother/uncle/boyfriend/friend would have been alive still.
So I stand by what I said, I hope her conscience drives her fucked-up. For she would have taken out any of us even in the right lane, because she is one of the many claiming; "sorry, I did not see you"

just asking...

but if it was one way flowing traffic and she was next to the emergency lane, he is coming from behind, she is not required to look back? Nobody would, you do not expect traffic in that lane in the first place.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Cave Girl on July 02, 2012, 09:53:07 pm
Ouch guys this thread is a bit hectic! RIP biker. Remember there are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story! Strongs to all involved!   
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 02, 2012, 09:57:12 pm
My dear friend, read the eyewitness account again, yes the biker was speeding, and yes, he was in the emergency lane. Consider one question; does he deserve to have died for this? Because if the woman in the car did only one small thing, incidentally required for her to have done by law, that is to have looked into her rearview mirror BEFORE swerving, this father/brother/uncle/boyfriend/friend would have been alive still.
So I stand by what I said, I hope her conscience drives her fucked-up. For she would have taken out any of us even in the right lane, because she is one of the many claiming; "sorry, I did not see you"

Danie, sorry. Daai "ons arme bikers is onskuldige victims van vrouens" werk nie.

Daai ou was onwettig op 'n plek waar hy nie mag gewees het nie. So of die vrou nou gekyk het of nie, is eintlik irrelevant.

Kom ek stel dit so: As my vrou op die N1 ry en almal voor haar rem dat die bande rook en sy moet kies tussen vasry in 'n vragmotor of uitswaai en 'n biker tref wat onwettig verbysteek... dan gaan ek jammer voel vir die biker wat die wet verbreek het. Maar ek gaan bly wees my vrou is okay.

Komaan, dink verder as jou neus en die geykte, kortsigtige "ons bikers" paradigma. Dis soos mense wat nie wil he motors moet hulle ligte aanskakel nie (ten spyte van oorweldigende studies wat die waarde daarvan bevestig in verskeie lande) "omdat dit bikers minder opsigtelik maak". WDF?!! Hoeveel padgebruikers (as 'n persentasie) is bikers? Dalk, net dalk, as bikers besef dat hulle ook padgebruikers soos almal anders is, sal minder van hulle in aanmerking kom vir die Darwin Awards. Common sense - she is not so common after all...

Nee fok man. Dis mos soos mense wat hulle honde na ander mense se woonbuurte vat om op hulle strande te gaan kak en dan verontwaardig is as 'n bergie op hulle eie voorstoep kak.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 02, 2012, 10:03:47 pm
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.


You are sick.

My dear friend, read the eyewitness account again, yes the biker was speeding, and yes, he was in the emergency lane. Consider one question; does he deserve to have died for this? Because if the woman in the car did only one small thing, incidentally required for her to have done by law, that is to have looked into her rearview mirror BEFORE swerving, this father/brother/uncle/boyfriend/friend would have been alive still.
So I stand by what I said, I hope her conscience drives her fucked-up. For she would have taken out any of us even in the right lane, because she is one of the many claiming; "sorry, I did not see you"

just asking...

but if it was one way flowing traffic and she was next to the emergency lane, he is coming from behind, she is not required to look back? Nobody would, you do not expect traffic in that lane in the first place.



There might just be an emergency vehicle in the emergency lane :mwink:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Hondsekierie on July 02, 2012, 10:06:47 pm
My dear friend, read the eyewitness account again, yes the biker was speeding, and yes, he was in the emergency lane. Consider one question; does he deserve to have died for this? Because if the woman in the car did only one small thing, incidentally required for her to have done by law, that is to have looked into her rearview mirror BEFORE swerving, this father/brother/uncle/boyfriend/friend would have been alive still.
So I stand by what I said, I hope her conscience drives her fucked-up. For she would have taken out any of us even in the right lane, because she is one of the many claiming; "sorry, I did not see you"

Danie, sorry. Daai "ons arme bikers is onskuldige victims van vrouens" werk nie.

Daai ou was onwettig op 'n plek waar hy nie mag gewees het nie. So of die vrou nou gekyk het of nie, is eintlik irrelevant.

Kom ek stel dit so: As my vrou op die N1 ry en almal voor haar rem dat die bande rook en sy moet kies tussen vasry in 'n vragmotor of uitswaai en 'n biker tref wat onwettig verbysteek... dan gaan ek jammer voel vir die biker wat die wet verbreek het. Maar ek gaan bly wees my vrou is okay.

Komaan, dink verder as jou neus en die geykte, kortsigtige "ons bikers" paradigma. Dis soos mense wat nie wil he motors moet hulle ligte aanskakel nie (ten spyte van oorweldigende studies wat die waarde daarvan bevestig in verskeie lande) "omdat dit bikers minder opsigtelik maak". WDF?!! Hoeveel padgebruikers (as 'n persentasie) is bikers? Dalk, net dalk, as bikers besef dat hulle ook padgebruikers soos almal anders is, sal minder van hulle in aanmerking kom vir die Darwin Awards. Common sense - she is not so common after all...

Nee fok man. Dis mos soos mense wat hulle honde na ander mense se woonbuurte vat om op hulle strande te gaan kak en dan verontwaardig is as 'n bergie op hulle eie voorstoep kak.

Hoekom ek jou so baie like  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 02, 2012, 10:09:19 pm
Jaco, ek voel vir daai biker net so min soos ek vir daai HP2 van jou voel, en dit is fokkol :mwink:, en ek stem saam, as die vrou moes uitswaai in n noodgeval, en hier sit ta onwettiglik op sy bike in die EL, dan moet hy nou seker maar vrek. Maar kyk die ding mooi, die ongeluk is NIE veroorsaak deur n ou wat in die EL gery het nie, die ongeluk is veroorsaak deur n bestuurder wat NAGELAAT het om haar spieels te raadpleeg voordat sy van bane verander het. Sou ook graag wou hoor waarom sy onwettig opgetree het duer in di EL in te wil draai?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 02, 2012, 10:18:04 pm
Die groot oordenking?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 02, 2012, 11:09:38 pm
Jaco, ek voel vir daai biker net so min soos ek vir daai HP2 van jou voel, en dit is fokkol :mwink:, en ek stem saam, as die vrou moes uitswaai in n noodgeval, en hier sit ta onwettiglik op sy bike in die EL, dan moet hy nou seker maar vrek. Maar kyk die ding mooi, die ongeluk is NIE veroorsaak deur n ou wat in die EL gery het nie, die ongeluk is veroorsaak deur n bestuurder wat NAGELAAT het om haar spieels te raadpleeg voordat sy van bane verander het. Sou ook graag wou hoor waarom sy onwettig opgetree het duer in di EL in te wil draai?

Danie, as sy uitgeswaai het om 'n ongeluk te vermy en 'n bike getref het wat gery het waar hy nie mag gery het nie... wie dink jy was die twatwaffle?

Onthou, ons praat hier van 'n amperse refleks-aksie. En... belangriker nog: Sy't nie "van baan verander nie". Sy't uitgeswaai om 'n ongeluk te vermy. In 'n noodbaan in waar daar nie veronderstel is om voertuie te wees nie. Maar, soos jy nie weet nie, ry daar baie ouens in Gauteng elke dag daai paaie asof dit 'n "reserved for bikers" baan is.

Die "ongeluk" (en wanneer jy gevorderde bestuurskursusse doen, sal hulle jou vertel daar is nie iets soos " 'n ongeluk" nie, net nalatigheid of "an act of God/Beelzebub/Flying Spaghetti Monster") was dus nie 'n "ongeluk" nie. Net 'n biker wat dood is omdat hy gery het waar hy nie mag gery het nie.

Daar is NIKS onwettig daaraan om uit te swaai om 'n botsing te vermy nie. Nou moet jy ook relatiewe snelhede in ag neem. Se nou maar die ou doen 80 terwyl die motors 40 doen? Dan is hy heeltemal te vinnig.

Ek ken 'n man wat so in sy fuck you in gery is naby Kyalami so paar jaar terug. Wie se skuld? Sy eie.

Jammer, maar solank as wat ons nie erken dat bikers in baie gevalle hulle eie kak boek nie, gaan hierdie goed aanhou gebeur.

FFS, ons is mos nie ANC-tipes nie?!! Ons kan immers die oorsaak-gevolg-korrelasie snap. Of oorskat ek die manne se intellek?  ???
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 03, 2012, 05:36:43 am
With Jaco on this one - a life was lost - sadness and condolences aside, the very least we can do is learn something from it.

Sparro, thanks bud; through your eyes and heart, we've also "seen" the accident and shared in the attempted revival - I've travelled that section often and I've been guilty of using the emergency lane, but I've been under no illusion that I had any special rights - I know that many drivers don't look out on that side.

The driver will be scarred for life for having made a split second decision for swerving right - granted she didn't look, but sometimes those reactions are made without deduction but more knee jerk - does a life need to be exchanged for such a brief moment - not at all;  the line between life and death draws narrow when you share the space between cars.


Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: subie on July 03, 2012, 05:52:17 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 06:37:04 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 03, 2012, 06:47:54 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker
+1000

Dwerg, jou moeilike etter!  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Hakbos on July 03, 2012, 06:53:47 am
Die feit van die saak is dat dit heeltemal te maklik is om bestuurlisensies, vir 'n cage of bike, in SA te kry of te koop of sommer sonder 'n lisensie te ry.  :patch:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kenisis on July 03, 2012, 07:10:15 am
Hi there Guys. The fact remains that one person is dead. There are many what if`s that can be debated about who is right or who is wrong. Irrespective of what we all debate here I garuantee that that poor woman will be shattered from some time to come. Please bear in mind she did not wake up in the morning and decided that it was a great day to go and kill a Biker no body does that when they have an accident.

Just to Clarify

Accident

ac·ci·dent   /ˈęksɪdənt/ Show Spelled[ak-si-duhnt] Show IPA
noun

 an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents


I lost a very good friend of mine on Hans Strydom and Witkoppen 8 years ago. All becuase some f*&^ Head left montecasino after an all nighter of gambling and he jumped a red light. Bikes and cars in those situations dont mix well. I was angry for a while but then when things settle and you realise that the guy made a stupid mistake and well our mate is gone! We accept that there is nothing that we can do to change it. We all had the what if`s, What if i had ridden with that morning? I too may be dead. What if We stopped him from riding on that day? It could of happened on any other day!

I think that the most important thing to remember here is that it is a jungle out there and you have to be very careful. Routine and complacency will kill you on a bike. You need to be awake.


Sparro you are a great Gentleman. Thank you for stopping and trying your best with the CPR. At least you gave the guy a fighting chance!

RIP to the rider and condolences to the family.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 03, 2012, 07:12:14 am
I travel that road every day and believe me the fast lane bull whips like you cannot believe - sometimes you are just accelerating to keep up with the car in front of you and you have to pile onto the brakes in a big way.  I make a point of staying 3 secs behind the car in front and on a few occasions have stood on the brakes and wondered if I will stop in time.

Driving along there today - bikers in the emergency lane.  Not that the fast lane was even full or slowing down.  And then there was the toss who wanted to do 160 and used the emergency lane for overtaking after tailgating the cars in the fast lane.  Best of all was when he would swerve back in front of the car and just miss the car's bumper to prove his point.  Good thinking!  Darwin has a place for you too.  So the emergency lane has become a bike lane and f@ck all of you in your cars.  Just because the Metro do not stop you does not make it legal.

The explanation is quite simple - selfishness.  Me and myself are too important to follow the law and we will do what we want to on the road.  And first they must catch me to prosecute me because I have no numberplate on my bike!  It is unfortunately the common attitude around Joburg these days and as Jacko rightly said, you cannot imagine how many bikers are riding in the emergency lanes on the freeways.  In fact, probably more than the number of taxis...how bad is that.

With regards to the woman not looking and whatever other BS springs to mind to blame her - swerving is an instant reflex so it is hardly likely that you plan it to make sure that the emergency lane bikers have passed.  You respond in fractions of a second.

That section of road is notorious for motorbike accidents with fatalities, always a few deaths every year along there.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 03, 2012, 07:23:54 am
Hi there Guys. The fact remains that one person is dead. There are many what if`s that can be debated about who is right or who is wrong. Irrespective of what we all debate here I garuantee that that poor woman will be shattered from some time to come. Please bear in mind she did not wake up in the morning and decided that it was a great day to go and kill a Biker no body does that when they have an accident.

Just to Clarify

Accident

ac·ci·dent   /ˈęksɪdənt/ Show Spelled[ak-si-duhnt] Show IPA
noun

 an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents


I lost a very good friend of mine on Hans Strydom and Witkoppen 8 years ago. All becuase some f*&^ Head left montecasino after an all nighter of gambling and he jumped a red light. Bikes and cars in those situations dont mix well. I was angry for a while but then when things settle and you realise that the guy made a stupid mistake and well our mate is gone! We accept that there is nothing that we can do to change it. We all had the what if`s, What if i had ridden with that morning? I too may be dead. What if We stopped him from riding on that day? It could of happened on any other day!

I think that the most important thing to remember here is that it is a jungle out there and you have to be very careful. Routine and complacency will kill you on a bike. You need to be awake.


Sparro you are a great Gentleman. Thank you for stopping and trying your best with the CPR. At least you gave the guy a fighting chance!

RIP to the rider and condolences to the family.

Agreed 100% - nobody leaves home in the morning with the intention of killing someone on the freeway.

At the end of the day, our decisions determine our well being, not the other person's.  You choose to drive a bike,  then drive to stay alive.  Don't rely on the other roadusers to avoid you.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: JVR on July 03, 2012, 07:28:29 am
RIP. :'(

Wat my egter verstom is Danie se opmerking oor die vrou,my fok dieselfde ou wat wil spietkop speel in die "Fast lane hugger" saga.
Die ou op die bike was op die verkeerde plek op die verkeerde tyd,hoe sad dit ook al mag wees.
Ek voel vir die vrou net soos ek vir die familie en vriende van die biker voel.....HARTSEER.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 03, 2012, 07:43:42 am
I was on an Orange Tiger Lane splitting, I did not see the accident happen and i did not stop as there were already too many vehicles stopped and I would not have know what to do in the situation anyway, Sparro i take my hat off to you for stopping, weldone your a good man.

I did however see you guys come past in the emergency lane and thought to myself if a car swerves to miss you and hits me im gonna be pissed off! it is not the right place to be riding, i have had 2 or 3 cars swerve as they are not expecting a bike to scare the crap out of them passing them in the emergency lane they swerve just a little but enough to scare the crap out of me lane splitting.

Please dont do it guys
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: alanB on July 03, 2012, 07:55:25 am
Hi there Guys. The fact remains that one person is dead. There are many what if`s that can be debated about who is right or who is wrong. Irrespective of what we all debate here I garuantee that that poor woman will be shattered from some time to come. Please bear in mind she did not wake up in the morning and decided that it was a great day to go and kill a Biker no body does that when they have an accident.

Just to Clarify

Accident

ac·ci·dent   /ˈęksɪdənt/ Show Spelled[ak-si-duhnt] Show IPA
noun

 an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents


I lost a very good friend of mine on Hans Strydom and Witkoppen 8 years ago. All becuase some f*&^ Head left montecasino after an all nighter of gambling and he jumped a red light. Bikes and cars in those situations dont mix well. I was angry for a while but then when things settle and you realise that the guy made a stupid mistake and well our mate is gone! We accept that there is nothing that we can do to change it. We all had the what if`s, What if i had ridden with that morning? I too may be dead. What if We stopped him from riding on that day? It could of happened on any other day!

I think that the most important thing to remember here is that it is a jungle out there and you have to be very careful. Routine and complacency will kill you on a bike. You need to be awake.


Sparro you are a great Gentleman. Thank you for stopping and trying your best with the CPR. At least you gave the guy a fighting chance!

RIP to the rider and condolences to the family.

+1, agree 100%

If we are honest any of us could have made the same mistake if we were the driver of the car.

You don't expect someone over taking you in the emergency lane, no matter what anyone says!

If you insist on riding there and then get taken out, its no use whining afterwards (if you still can)!

I feel just as sorry for that poor woman who made an innocent mistake that will haunt her for the rest of her life, as the poor deceased biker and his family.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:01:18 am
Even if the woman swerved to avoid an "accident", it was still because she was not keeping a safe distance from the vehicle in front of her, or her attention was not where it should have been.
Take this scenario; the biker is in the right lane, on a unlicensed motorcycle, and the same "sorry did not see you" driver turns in front of him, how on heaven's earth would the fitment of a license disc have avoided her recklessness? The biker on a unlicenced bike should not have been on the road, yet the law finds that a separate issue, and not detracting from the car driver's fault.
WTF dos it help you she swerved to avoid hitting the guy in front of her because she was obviously TAILGATING, and she kills a biker???? Rather ram the guy in front, but aaah yes then she would have been the guilty party.
What if there was an ambulance in the emergency lane, racing to a serious accident scene, and she writes them all off?
JVR, ek weet die biker was onwettig in die noodlaan, so in jul opinie is hy nou voelvry?
My probleem met die saak is die talle gevalle waar bikers doodgery word omdat motoriste van baan/rigting verander sonder om te kyk, en sonder om aan te wys. Geen padstelsel kan werk op so n manier nie.
En onthou Jacko, as jou vrou op enige pad moet rem sodat die rook by haar wiele uitkom, dan is dit omdat sy te na aan voorste verkeer was. Niks anders nie. Hier glo niemand mos in volgafstande nie. Stuur haar op jou gevorderde kursus.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:05:17 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker

Dwerg, dit is my punt, daagliks bikers in "verkeerde" plekke. Die vrou het uitgeswaai omdat sy nie sou kon stop in die plek wat daar gelaat was tussen haar en die voertuig voor haar nie. Waarom nie? Want niemand in SA glo mos in korrekte volgafstande nie. Of miskien het sy lipstiffie aangesit, en toe stop die dose stommerike voor haar voordat sy klaar gegrimeer het?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: subie on July 03, 2012, 08:06:56 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker

Ja vriend verseker kyk ek eers in my blindekol voor ek vir enigiets uitswaai. Vir n goeie bestuurder behoort dit net n outomatiese aksie te wees.Nie soseer oor ek bekommerd is oor die porsche nie maar eerder my instink vir self preservasie. Gaan ek dalk om vir n hond uiteswaai nie dalk in veel erger situasie opeindig deur net nie te kyk nie.
Watter deel van dit verstaan jy nie?
Fok tjom is jy wakker  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:12:57 am
Lees hier; My broer het n motorfiets wat onpadwaardig was vir n toetsrit geneem. By n 4 rigting stop ry n motoris, wat nie gestop het nie, die fiets onder hom uit. Die motoris se skuld, of moes my broer nooit daar gewees het met die onpadwaardige fiets nie?
Wel, die motoris vind toe uit dat die fiets nie padwaardig is nie, en wil toe my broer laat betaal vir skade. Die hof bevind toe dat die ongeluk presies dieselfde sou afloop al het die fiets n PWS gehad, en dat die staat my broer kan dagvaar in n AFSONDERLIKE saak, maar dat die motoris skuldig was.
Die vrou het sonder om te waarsku van rigting verander, en dit het tot die motorfietsryer se dood gely.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 08:15:40 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker

Ja vriend verseker kyk ek eers in my blindekol voor ek vir enigiets uitswaai. Vir n goeie bestuurder behoort dit net n outomatiese aksie te wees.Nie soseer oor ek bekommerd is oor die porsche nie maar eerder my instink vir self preservasie. Gaan ek dalk om vir n hond uiteswaai nie dalk in veel erger situasie opeindig deur net nie te kyk nie.
Watter deel van dit verstaan jy nie?
Fok tjom is jy wakker  :imaposer:

As jy in 'n nood situasie waar jy 'n split sekonde het om te reageer eers in jy blinde kol kyk hoop ek van harte dat ek nie in die kar voor jou is nie. Ons praat nie van bane verander hier nie neut
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:17:28 am
RIP. :'(

Wat my egter verstom is Danie se opmerking oor die vrou,my fok dieselfde ou wat wil spietkop speel in die "Fast lane hugger" saga.
Die ou op die bike was op die verkeerde plek op die verkeerde tyd,hoe sad dit ook al mag wees.
Ek voel vir die vrou net soos ek vir die familie en vriende van die biker voel.....HARTSEER.



Versigtig wat jy hier praat, onthou in die fast lane hugger saga was ek ook reg. Die hof het beslis dat Taylor nie die wet oortree het nie. Maar julle wil nou soos die ANC kies wanneer die hof reg is, aldan nie?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 08:17:57 am
mag bikers in die EL ry of nie?

niemand voorsien in eenrigting verkeer vloei om eers te kyk vir verkeer in EL lyn as jy moet pad soek waneer jy nood remme moet gebruik nie.

dis hoekom mens NIE in die EL baan ry nie, veral bikers.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:18:30 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker

Ja vriend verseker kyk ek eers in my blindekol voor ek vir enigiets uitswaai. Vir n goeie bestuurder behoort dit net n outomatiese aksie te wees.Nie soseer oor ek bekommerd is oor die porsche nie maar eerder my instink vir self preservasie. Gaan ek dalk om vir n hond uiteswaai nie dalk in veel erger situasie opeindig deur net nie te kyk nie.
Watter deel van dit verstaan jy nie?
Fok tjom is jy wakker  :imaposer:

As jy in 'n nood situasie waar jy 'n split sekonde het om te reageer eers in jy blinde kol kyk hoop ek van harte dat ek nie in die kar voor jou is nie. Ons praat nie van bane verander hier nie neut

VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:20:05 am
mag bikers in die EL ry of nie?

niemand voorsien in eenrigting verkeer vloei om eers te kyk vir verkeer in EL lyn as jy moet pad soek waneer jy nood remme moet gebruik nie.

dis hoekom mens NIE in die EL baan ry nie, veral bikers.



Probleem is dat NIEMAND eers kyk in enige baan voor hulle rigting verandr nie. Mos lekker in SA.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 03, 2012, 08:20:16 am
What about the bike lane splitting, and a car swerves to miss a bike in the emergency lane......is it then still ok for bike to be in the EL.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 08:20:25 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker

Ja vriend verseker kyk ek eers in my blindekol voor ek vir enigiets uitswaai. Vir n goeie bestuurder behoort dit net n outomatiese aksie te wees.Nie soseer oor ek bekommerd is oor die porsche nie maar eerder my instink vir self preservasie. Gaan ek dalk om vir n hond uiteswaai nie dalk in veel erger situasie opeindig deur net nie te kyk nie.
Watter deel van dit verstaan jy nie?
Fok tjom is jy wakker  :imaposer:

As jy in 'n nood situasie waar jy 'n split sekonde het om te reageer eers in jy blinde kol kyk hoop ek van harte dat ek nie in die kar voor jou is nie. Ons praat nie van bane verander hier nie neut

VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Kom commute bietjie vir 'n week lank tussen JHB en PTA dan praat ons weer
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: subie on July 03, 2012, 08:22:58 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker

Ja vriend verseker kyk ek eers in my blindekol voor ek vir enigiets uitswaai. Vir n goeie bestuurder behoort dit net n outomatiese aksie te wees.Nie soseer oor ek bekommerd is oor die porsche nie maar eerder my instink vir self preservasie. Gaan ek dalk om vir n hond uiteswaai nie dalk in veel erger situasie opeindig deur net nie te kyk nie.
Watter deel van dit verstaan jy nie?
Fok tjom is jy wakker  :imaposer:

As jy in 'n nood situasie waar jy 'n split sekonde het om te reageer eers in jy blinde kol kyk hoop ek van harte dat ek nie in die kar voor jou is nie. Ons praat nie van bane verander hier nie neut

My neute vriend  :mwink:
Dit is waarom ek as goeie verantwoordelike bestuurder ter alle tye my volgafstand en spoed aanpas. Hulle noem dit defensive driving
 :ricky:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: subie on July 03, 2012, 08:28:04 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen. Ek is anti lane splitting en in noodbane ry myself en kan n persentasie van die skuld seker deur die biker gedra word. Vir my die oorheersende faktor in die geval is die feit dat die vrou n manouver uitgevoer het sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om te doen. n Vinnige blik in die speeltjie van haar en sou hierdie biker nog miskien geleef het.
Ek moet ook wonder net voor sy uitgeswaai het vir verkeer wat voor haar stop. Waar was haar aandag en following distance dat sy nie betyds kon stop binne haar baan op so n relatief lae spoed  nie?
Die biker klink nie vir my of hy defensief gery het nie. So ek sou dink altwee het n persentasie skuld in die geval. Iets wat die nalatige voertuig bestuurder kon verhoed het en so ook die roekelose rystyl van die biker.
Ek wonder of ons tragiese verkeers situasie nie mense "forseer" om bikes in druk verkeer te ry wat nie die ondervinding/saaltyd het vir dit nie.

RIP biker

Watse deel van die biker was in die verkeerde plek verstaan jy nie? As jy links van die pad af swaai om 'n hond te vermy, kyk jy eers in jou blinde kol om te sien of daar 'n Porsche op die grond langs die pad aan kom om sodoende seker te maak dis veilig? Fok tjom word wakker

Ja vriend verseker kyk ek eers in my blindekol voor ek vir enigiets uitswaai. Vir n goeie bestuurder behoort dit net n outomatiese aksie te wees.Nie soseer oor ek bekommerd is oor die porsche nie maar eerder my instink vir self preservasie. Gaan ek dalk om vir n hond uiteswaai nie dalk in veel erger situasie opeindig deur net nie te kyk nie.
Watter deel van dit verstaan jy nie?
Fok tjom is jy wakker  :imaposer:

As jy in 'n nood situasie waar jy 'n split sekonde het om te reageer eers in jy blinde kol kyk hoop ek van harte dat ek nie in die kar voor jou is nie. Ons praat nie van bane verander hier nie neut

VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Kom commute bietjie vir 'n week lank tussen JHB en PTA dan praat ons weer

ook waar wat jy se Dwerg
Dit is hoekom ek onder geen omstandighede met my ouderdom en reaksie tye met n bike sal probeer commute nie. Het dit in my jonger dae gedoen maar moet se was nooit n lane splitter en sulke goed nie en ek is na 35 jare biking nog hier. Nie oor ek goeie ryer was nie maar ek het my limitation's geken en altyd gery asof elke kar my wou vrekmaak. Die dop het dinge so n bietjie in grys area by tye laat verval egter  O0
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:30:51 am
Subie, dit is waaroor dit gaan, pas net jou volgafstande aan, en jy hoef nie in noodbane in te ry nie, of rook uit jou bande sien kom nie.

Lees mooi; "die biker het die wet verbreek, maar die vrou het hom doodgery. Of het hy net vanself geval? Hy was wel onwettig in die noodbaan, maar dit is n afsonderlike saak waarvoor die staat alleen hom kan aankla.

Ek wag tot een van julle weer kom huil oor n motor wat n U-draai voor jou/ jou broer/ vriend/suster gemaak het, want dit is wat hier gebeur het, die vrou het haarself nie genoeg afstand gegun om binne te stop nie, moes uitswaai, en n motorfietsryer is dood.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:32:27 am
Ek moet gou gaan geldmaak, sal julle verder verkeerd bewys vanaand. Lekker dag almal.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 08:33:44 am
Subie, dit is waaroor dit gaan, pas net jou volgafstande aan, en jy hoef nie in noodbane in te ry nie, of rook uit jou bande sien kom nie.


So besig soos die highway in druk verkeer is en soos wat die mense in gapings in druk sal jy actually in reverse moet ry om die volgafstand te hou
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: HB 9 on July 03, 2012, 08:41:19 am
Even if the woman swerved to avoid an "accident", it was still because she was not keeping a safe distance from the vehicle in front of her, or her attention was not where it should have been.

My experience is that if you leave a safe distance (according to the speed travelling) everybody will fill that gap for you.

We have to start with our OWN lookout on life - rules are made to give us freedom within boundries - and most roadusers do not adhere to the rules, whether on foot, a bicycle, motorbike, cage or truck.

The result is CARNAGE on our roads!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: subie on July 03, 2012, 08:49:23 am
Subie, dit is waaroor dit gaan, pas net jou volgafstande aan, en jy hoef nie in noodbane in te ry nie, of rook uit jou bande sien kom nie.


So besig soos die highway in druk verkeer is en soos wat die mense in gapings in druk sal jy actually in reverse moet ry om die volgafstand te hou

Ja ek moet se defensive driving in die druk verkeer hierso is ook maar n grys area. Ek voel baie tye met my kar nie gemaklik met my volgafstande as newbie hier in joburg nie. Gelukkig hoef ek glad nie sommer peak hours te ry nie. Mens kan maar net probeer om so defensive as moontlik te ry en seker maak jou aandag is absoluut by wat op die pad aangaan.
Ek het Desember maand Durban toe gery in druk vinnig vloeiende verkeer (140km/h) waar ek nie kon n veilige afstand handhaaf nie. My vrou trek my aandag om iets langs pad te wys en in daardie oomblik rem die ouens kwaai voor my. Ek onthou spesifiek my aandag was nie vasgenael op die kar voor my nie. Terwyl ek besig was met candice braking  was my aandag meer gevestig wat in my tru en kant spieeltjie aangaan indien ek sou moes "bail" en nie sou kon stop betyds nie. Gelukkig was die ou agter my ook op die ball.
Dit is instinktief en is ek nie seker dit kan aangeleer word nie. My vrou weet om my nie te pla terwyl ek ry nie. Ek is een van daardie mense wat nie eers n radio sal aansit in verkeer nie. Dink dit is meer bang vir seerkry en skade as iets anders  O0
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kaboef on July 03, 2012, 08:50:15 am
mag bikers in die EL ry of nie?

niemand voorsien in eenrigting verkeer vloei om eers te kyk vir verkeer in EL lyn as jy moet pad soek waneer jy nood remme moet gebruik nie.

dis hoekom mens NIE in die EL baan ry nie, veral bikers.



Probleem is dat NIEMAND eers kyk in enige baan voor hulle rigting verandr nie. Mos lekker in SA.

Danie, jou argument is baie dun.

Die vrou se reaksie was 100% korrek: Sy het uitgeswaai in die EL in, NIE links in n ander baan in nie. Sy het uit die pad uitgeswaai, nie in die pad in nie. Die EL is veronderstel om skoon te wees. As daar n Emergency Vehicle aan die kom was, het hy sy ligte en sirene aangehad.

Die vrou se optrede was 100% korrek.
Ek sou presies dieselfde gedoen het.

Die biker moes nie daar gewees het nie.

RIP.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: subie on July 03, 2012, 08:51:41 am
Ek moet gou gaan geldmaak, sal julle verder verkeerd bewys vanaand. Lekker dag almal.

 :imaposer:
Ek is in die gelukkige posisie van geen finansies daarom geen finansiele probleme nie :ricky:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: alanB on July 03, 2012, 08:53:00 am
I know this is a biking forum and we love to gang up on car drivers that cause accidents, especially fatal ones, but in this case at least 50% of the blame must be carried by the biker who was riding where he shouldnt have, where no reasonable person would expect him to be.

Its as simple as that!

Trying to crucify the women now is just hypocrisy IMO.

The only vehicles that SHOULD be in the emergency lane are emergency vehicles who all have sirens to warn us that are doing unexpected stuff and approaching from unexpeceted directions.

Even if the woman was at fault for not paying attention or whatever, its quite legitimate for her to take avoiding action by swerving into the emergency lane, because thats what its there for!  The biker got killed because he was where he shouldn't have been, you cant get away from that fact, and you cant blame the woman for that.

Its just a tragic set of events.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Skaiidawg on July 03, 2012, 09:02:36 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen.


VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Nee Danie jy en Subie is die 2 NEUTE in hierdie sad storie. Julle maak gevolgtrekkings al het julle nie al die feite nie.
Wat van as die bestuurder aan die vroue bestuurder se linkerkant 'n maneuver gemaak het wat na haar kant toe gebeur het en sy het uitgeswaai na regs om die ongeluk te vermy, o ja volgafstand sal mos daar help, hou op gevolgtrekkings maak en dan ook nog probeer Judge Jury en Executioner speel. Jy en Subie hammer op volgafstande blindekolle en o ja julle 2 is die beste bestuurders daar buite (in julle oe natuurlik)
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: sparro on July 03, 2012, 09:15:50 am
I think this is a great debate, a bit heated but still good conversation.

For me personally, the incident was an eye opener.  I was stupid thinking that it was ok to ride in the EL, and it was always on my mind - what if the idiot in front of me swerves and cuts me off ?  There's nowhere to go.

Its really sad that this bloke had to die to change my mind for good, but it did, and I hope it does for a few other mavericks that ride the EL on a daily basis.  Apologies to SmokenFly for scaring the shit out of motorists who the swerve in front of you guys filtering too.  I admit that it is illegal, wrong and stupid in fact.

The lady driver was alone in the car and had nobody close to her to console her.  We had a little chat and I tried to calm her down.  She did on fact admit that her attention was split between her phone and the traffic.  When she looked up , she was about to hit the car in front of her and (as many of you said) swerved into the ER with one hand on the wheel - the other still holding the phone and she was totally surprised when the bike was right there at that moment.  I told her that we (that includes me) where not allowed to ride there and that she was not supposed to fiddle with her phone either.  So 2 stupid acts = one big accident and thats just what it was, an accident.  No intentions to do harm.  

I'm sure she has learn't a live lesson from this, just like I did.

So in closing - my last comment on this - I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.  
I want to fix it for good. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: PierreO on July 03, 2012, 09:35:54 am
Sparro I stopped using a bike in 1983 after a stoopid bike accident where people also passed on . Two years ago I decided that I am mature enough now to try again . That is one of the reasons (and I know people gonna give me 10 diffrent ones) why I did not go for a twin turbo , quad cam bike !! I can with a bit of effort get to 140km an hour but my bike is very happy between 100 and 120km , I have found that this works for me as I tend to rather stick with traffic than outrun them . But I still find myself doing stooopid thing from time to time , especially speeding and then I start singing to myself "slow down you move to fast , gotta let the moment last la-di-da" . That works for me , an not so sure bout the driving courses but if you do one let me know cause I am a very bad singer .

We all throw the dice every day and it does not always land on a 6 .

RIP friend .
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: HB 9 on July 03, 2012, 09:36:14 am
I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.

I will do the same - best wishes for you and all others commuting everyday in hectic traffic! We have to ride and drive safer to able us to survive the traffic  :deal:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: punisher on July 03, 2012, 09:41:19 am
I think this is a great debate, a bit heated but still good conversation.

For me personally, the incident was an eye opener.  I was stupid thinking that it was ok to ride in the EL, and it was always on my mind - what if the idiot in front of me swerves and cuts me off ?  There's nowhere to go.

Its really sad that this bloke had to die to change my mind for good, but it did, and I hope it does for a few other mavericks that ride the EL on a daily basis.  Apologies to SmokenFly for scaring the shit out of motorists who the swerve in front of you guys filtering too.  I admit that it is illegal, wrong and stupid in fact.

The lady driver was alone in the car and had nobody close to her to console her.  We had a little chat and I tried to calm her down.  She did on fact admit that her attention was split between her phone and the traffic.  When she looked up , she was about to hit the car in front of her and (as many of you said) swerved into the ER with one hand on the wheel - the other still holding the phone and she was totally surprised when the bike was right there at that moment.  I told her that we (that includes me) where not allowed to ride there and that she was not supposed to fiddle with her phone either.  So 2 stupid acts = one big accident and thats just what it was, an accident.  No intentions to do harm.  

I'm sure she has learn't a live lesson from this, just like I did.

So in closing - my last comment on this - I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.  
I want to fix it for good. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 09:43:56 am
I think this is a great debate, a bit heated but still good conversation.

For me personally, the incident was an eye opener.  I was stupid thinking that it was ok to ride in the EL, and it was always on my mind - what if the idiot in front of me swerves and cuts me off ?  There's nowhere to go.

Its really sad that this bloke had to die to change my mind for good, but it did, and I hope it does for a few other mavericks that ride the EL on a daily basis.  Apologies to SmokenFly for scaring the shit out of motorists who the swerve in front of you guys filtering too.  I admit that it is illegal, wrong and stupid in fact.

The lady driver was alone in the car and had nobody close to her to console her.  We had a little chat and I tried to calm her down.  She did on fact admit that her attention was split between her phone and the traffic.  When she looked up , she was about to hit the car in front of her and (as many of you said) swerved into the ER with one hand on the wheel - the other still holding the phone and she was totally surprised when the bike was right there at that moment.  I told her that we (that includes me) where not allowed to ride there and that she was not supposed to fiddle with her phone either.  So 2 stupid acts = one big accident and thats just what it was, an accident.  No intentions to do harm.  

I'm sure she has learn't a live lesson from this, just like I did.

So in closing - my last comment on this - I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.  
I want to fix it for good. :thumleft:

Shot Sparro  :thumleft:

Although I highly doubt it, I hope the discussion gets left there
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 03, 2012, 09:48:17 am
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Buelligan on July 03, 2012, 09:48:49 am
Hi Sparro, once again a big thank you for trying to assist

Your most important point there was, "thinking that it was OK to ride in the EL"

Another point that was made several times was "speed differential"
Keeping safe is being able to stop in time, which is in turn dictated by how fast you are going relative to the other traffic.
Whizzing past traffic that is nearly stationary at 80 km/h or more may make one feel omnipotent, but sadly belies the truth and facts.

When splitting the maximum speed differential should be 25 - 40 km/h faster than the surrounding traffic,
so when traffic suddenly comes to a dead stop you have time to stop.....same when faced with an unexpected lane changer

This was an extremely tragic turn of events, which unfortunately is not helped by the pointing of fingers.

Hopefully some of us learnt something and put it into practice, otherwise history will repeat itself

Please guys, try keep safe out there so that in the future we don't have to analyse what went wrong
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 09:49:00 am
With Marco Millandri his helmet came off, because Rossi hit him so it can happen. But that is another factor that just might have saved this man's life. Schubert helmets if I am not mistaken incorporate as build design to stop a helmet coming off a persons head.

The time I decided to head butt a carrier barrier at 100km/h the Uvex stayed on my head. The lid looked like a badly cracked egg but was intack and on my head.
Maybe he did not secure it properly or it is a crucial safety aspect they do not use on whatever lid he used. It just, just, might have been the difference between him living and where he is now.

Practising collision avoidance and emergency braking is something a person must practice as often as possible to make it a habit.

But being stupid and riding in the EL lane or on the left shoulder of a road cant make up for skill
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: jogi_c on July 03, 2012, 09:50:30 am
Sorry 2SD, I cannot agree with you. I commute on the bike and drive on that piece of road every day.

Even while I am intensely aware of bikes when in the car, I have had a couple huge frights with bikes sneaking up on me in the emergency lane, just because you do not expect to see them there. At the William Nicol offramp on the N1 South every morning there is a huge traffic jam, and the cars do strange things to try and make up one place in the traffic jam. Is it right - no it is not. Am I (in the car on or the bike) going to try and enforce my rights when there are hundreds of motorists jumping lanes, no I will not.

First of all, riding in the EL on that stretch of road puts you VERY close to the concrete barrier, in a lane with lots of debris etc. on it. As can be seen from this incident, it puts you at the mercy of what a motorist will do, with no place to go but into the barrier. It also puts you at risk if you blow a tyre, break a chain or whatever else can go wrong on a bike, once again with no place to go but either into the fast lane traffic or the concrete barier.
RIP biker, and strongs to the other motorist involved
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 09:50:36 am
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

daar is net een hoofweg met meer as 2 bane in CP, die ouens verstaan nie regtig JHB verkeer nie. Jy moet fokus pappie :biggrin:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 09:51:30 am
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

 :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ons moet net asb iemand stuur om hom te help met die Ride Report ook  :pot:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 03, 2012, 09:57:13 am
Ek sal die video van 2SD se Gautengse spitverkeer-avontuur edit en vir Discovery Channel stuur sodat hulle dit onder "I shouldn't be alive" uitsaai.

Fokken carnage left, right and centre.  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 09:58:37 am
Ek sal die video edit en vir Discovery Channel stuur sodat hulle dit onder "I shouldn't be alive" uitsaai.

Fokken carnage left, right and centre.  :laughing4:
:laughing4:
Nie so seer bekommerd oor Dan aka Chuck Norris nie, ons moet die safety van cagers in ag neem as ons hom daar los laat. 
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: IceCreamMan on July 03, 2012, 10:00:28 am
fact remains had this woman not been distracted by her mobile and bee naware of the car in front of her this thread would not have been.

there is not equal aportioning of blame on this one no matter how hard some may try ....

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 10:02:36 am
fact remains had this woman not been distracted by her mobile and bee naware of the car in front of her this thread would not have been.

there is not equal aportioning of blame on this one no matter how hard some may try ....



fact is it is illegal to ride or drive in the EL lane, he was not suppose to be there in the first place.

finish and klaar.  :biggrin:

It does not change the fact that as a biker you must fokkin THINK when riding. And doing unsafe stuff will not make it better. If you want to take a fight with a 18 wheeler whether you think you are in your right or not is not going to change the fact that you will donners die in proofing your point.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: IceCreamMan on July 03, 2012, 10:08:41 am
fact remains had this woman not been distracted by her mobile and bee naware of the car in front of her this thread would not have been.

there is not equal aportioning of blame on this one no matter how hard some may try ....



fact is it is illegal to ride or drive in the EL lane, he was not suppose to be there in the first place.

finish and klaar.  :biggrin:

It does not change the fact that as a biker you must fokkin THINK when riding. And doing unsafe stuff will not make it better. If you want to take a fight with a 18 wheeler whether you think you are in your right or not is not going to change the fact that you will donners die in proofing your point.


Actually until we know the facts it may not have been illegal for this guy to be riding in that lane at that point in time .... we are only surmising that.  Additionally i would like to ask another couple of questions:

1) had this woman been using this highway before
2) has she ever seen bikers in this lane?

and if by performing illegal activities we would perish ,guess what this forum would not exist....

Edit: but i think whenever we see an accident we try and justify it to ourselves in a way .....so that we keep on riding ...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: HONDAKAWA11 on July 03, 2012, 10:10:29 am
I'm with Sparro on this one.

RIP rider and condolences to his family and every one involved.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 03, 2012, 10:14:07 am
Ek sal die video edit en vir Discovery Channel stuur sodat hulle dit onder "I shouldn't be alive" uitsaai.

Fokken carnage left, right and centre.  :laughing4:
:laughing4:
Nie so seer bekommerd oor Dan aka Chuck Norris nie, ons moet die safety van cagers in ag neem as ons hom daar los laat. 

 :laughing4:

"Dangerous Dan Strikes Fear Into Gotham City"
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Garfield on July 03, 2012, 10:50:20 am
En onthou Jacko, as jou vrou op enige pad moet rem sodat die rook by haar wiele uitkom, dan is dit omdat sy te na aan voorste verkeer was. Niks anders nie. Hier glo niemand mos in volgafstande nie. Stuur haar op jou gevorderde kursus.

As die spitsverkeer op die paaie in GP die regte volgeafstande hou gaan die arme bliksems agteruit moet ry om dit reg te kry...

Imagine om van Lynnwood af in trurat tot in Polokwane te ry op pad Midrand toe om 'n 2 of 3 sekonde volgafstand te probeer handhaaf  :o

RIP biker.

In die betrokke geval was altwee verkeerd, die vrou het met haar selfoon gekarring wat haar aandag van die verkeer voor haar afgehaal het, en die biker het gery waar hy nie moes nie, die twee verkeerde optredes het op een plek en een tyd bymekaar gekom, een persoon is dood en die ander een gaan die res van haar lewe daarmee moet saamleef.

Leer enigeen iets daaruit?

Nee wat, almal fok maar weer vandag voort net soos gister.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 03, 2012, 11:02:31 am
Now that Sparro has shared the details and the circumstances surrounding the manoeuvre / incident - I have a different take:
- Riding in the EL - is illegal - no argument there - it's the law;
- Using a cell phone whilst driving is also illegal - it's the law;
One illegal wrongdoer caused the death of another illegal wrongdoer - goes to prove that both laws are justifiably in place and this incident has just proved it.

The reality for us bikers is that cell phone users are potential assassins - and we know how many cell phones are in cages behind wheels texting ....  that's the modern day reality - so a lane splitter is equally vulnerable to the same fate as the EL rider - no different in my mind ... cage driver busy on the phone - traffic situation changes in front (sudden stop), late response, swerve ... biker taken out - the difference here the biker was not performing an illegal act - but rather a risky act - what would you say now .... aahhh the bitch on the phone blah blah blah ...... so the fact that the biker was in the EL, then the focus shift onto him - I don't think so - the blame sits equally .... but the consequences are quite different.

Irrespective of whether he should have been there or not, the lady will have the haunt of knowing she lost  control of the situation because of a careless and selfish act, which ultinmately resulted in someone's death - not a pleasant thing to go to bed with every day for time to come ....
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 11:17:28 am
Now that Sparro has shared the details and the circumstances surrounding the manoeuvre / incident - I have a different take:
- Riding in the EL - is illegal - no argument there - it's the law;
- Using a cell phone whilst driving is also illegal - it's the law;
One illegal wrongdoer caused the death of another illegal wrongdoer - goes to prove that both laws are justifiably in place and this incident has just proved it.

The reality for us bikers is that cell phone users are potential assassins - and we know how many cell phones are in cages behind wheels texting ....  that's the modern day reality - so a lane splitter is equally vulnerable to the same fate as the EL rider - no different in my mind ... cage driver busy on the phone - traffic situation changes in front (sudden stop), late response, swerve ... biker taken out - the difference here the biker was not performing an illegal act - but rather a risky act - what would you say now .... aahhh the bitch on the phone blah blah blah ...... so the fact that the biker was in the EL, then the focus shift onto him - I don't think so - the blame sits equally .... but the consequences are quite different.

Irrespective of whether he should have been there or not, the lady will have the haunt of knowing she lost  control of the situation because of a careless and selfish act, which ultinmately resulted in someone's death - not a pleasant thing to go to bed with every day for time to come ....

I disagree. The lane splitter is not moving as fast as the EL rider so he has more time to react plus an accident will be less severe
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 03, 2012, 11:26:22 am
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 11:32:43 am
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.

Yeah sure. I just know that I've been able to avoid accidents while splitting  purely because I was going slower. I've also been knocked by a car while splitting and managed to keep upright and avoid hitting anything else. In most of the scenarios I've personally experienced, additional speed would've made the situation much worse
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 03, 2012, 11:37:35 am
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.

Yeah sure. I just know that I've been able to avoid accidents while splitting  purely because I was going slower. I've also been knocked by a car while splitting and managed to keep upright and avoid hitting anything else. In most of the scenarios I've personally experienced, additional speed would've made the situation much worse

Agree, speed will play a big factor but the lane splitting I'm referring to is on the highways not the traffic at intersections.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 11:39:57 am
Dwerg, there may be speed differneces, but if you want to get into a physics comparison between bouncing off concrete and getting crushed under an 18 wheeler be my guest, but getting maulled between solid objects in my mind ranks in the "kiss your ass g'bye" category.

Yeah sure. I just know that I've been able to avoid accidents while splitting  purely because I was going slower. I've also been knocked by a car while splitting and managed to keep upright and avoid hitting anything else. In most of the scenarios I've personally experienced, additional speed would've made the situation much worse

Agree, speed will play a big factor but the lane splitting I'm referring to is on the highways not the traffic at intersections.

Me too  ;D


EDIT:
Intersections is not a big issue because traffic is mostly stationary. Cars wont be pulling any emergency manoeuvres
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 03, 2012, 11:44:59 am
I think this is a great debate, a bit heated but still good conversation.

For me personally, the incident was an eye opener.  I was stupid thinking that it was ok to ride in the EL, and it was always on my mind - what if the idiot in front of me swerves and cuts me off ?  There's nowhere to go.

Its really sad that this bloke had to die to change my mind for good, but it did, and I hope it does for a few other mavericks that ride the EL on a daily basis.  Apologies to SmokenFly for scaring the shit out of motorists who the swerve in front of you guys filtering too.  I admit that it is illegal, wrong and stupid in fact.

The lady driver was alone in the car and had nobody close to her to console her.  We had a little chat and I tried to calm her down.  She did on fact admit that her attention was split between her phone and the traffic.  When she looked up , she was about to hit the car in front of her and (as many of you said) swerved into the ER with one hand on the wheel - the other still holding the phone and she was totally surprised when the bike was right there at that moment.  I told her that we (that includes me) where not allowed to ride there and that she was not supposed to fiddle with her phone either.  So 2 stupid acts = one big accident and thats just what it was, an accident.  No intentions to do harm.  

I'm sure she has learn't a live lesson from this, just like I did.

So in closing - my last comment on this - I will change my riding habits, I will start wearing a neckbrace and I will certainly do a few advanced riding courses, me and and my wife.  21 yrs of riding experience means bugger all if one is perpetuating bad habits.  
I want to fix it for good. :thumleft:

I was shopping for bike stuff the other day and it is amazing that the bike shops are not punting the neck brace as important as the helmet.  The shops only discuss it on your request.  The only person who did not back down on the neck brace was Alfie Cox when I was discussing a kit for commuting.  He also explained to me how the neck injuries typically occur - it is not the head that is snapped back, but rather the neck is broken by the chin being pushed back and the top of the head rolling forward.

Strange - looks like we will have to educate the bike shops as they reluctantly sell you a neck brace.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 03, 2012, 11:45:42 am
Quote
EDIT:
Intersections is not a big issue because traffic is mostly stationary. Cars wont be pulling any emergency manoeuvres

Don't joke Dwerg, you get the smart arses that open their doors without looking :o
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 11:46:58 am
Don't joke, you get the smart arses that open their doors without looking :o

 :laughing4: :laughing4:

Yeah I've learned to be carefull of taxis and delivery trucks at intersections
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Geriatrix on July 03, 2012, 12:02:25 pm
A woman neglects to check her rearview mirrors before making a direction change, who's gonna help her get her life together? I sincerely hope nobody.



You are sick.

My dear friend, read the eyewitness account again, yes the biker was speeding, and yes, he was in the emergency lane. Consider one question; does he deserve to have died for this? Because if the woman in the car did only one small thing, incidentally required for her to have done by law, that is to have looked into her rearview mirror BEFORE swerving, this father/brother/uncle/boyfriend/friend would have been alive still.
So I stand by what I said, I hope her conscience drives her fucked-up. For she would have taken out any of us even in the right lane, because she is one of the many claiming; "sorry, I did not see you"


Few people "deserve to die" for their actions.
"Deserve" has nothing to do with it.
If a rider breaks the law and rides dangerously he must expect to die, whether he deserves it nor not.
The Law is there to protect every road user, but is only effective if it is obeyed by everyone.

If every one was in the correct place, pointing in the correct direction, going at the correct speed, in the correct gear, and giving correct indication of changes , there would be very few crashes indeed.
Anyone who does not obey all these rules is endangering himself and other road users. This biker was knowingly in the wrong place, and perhaps speeding ( I have not seen a post giving his speed at the time of the crash ). Two errors already, which means bad news is in the air.

Is there anyone in their Forum who looks in their mirrors before swerving to miss an obstruction in traffic?
Emergency vehicles driving in the emergency lane are usually obvious from a long way away, and will be noted.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: cocky on July 03, 2012, 12:03:49 pm
People,
I have read this thread and the incident report and been thinking about the "fast lane hogger" thread and how much they relate to each other.
I commute in JHB, like Dwerg does and have done for the last 12 years. I have been knocked off my bike twice by tossers in cages and on both occasions they drove away. I do NOT ride in the emergency lane and refuse to, for many reasons, main one being what happened to this fellow. I have seen and see daily the antics these clowns get up to in cars in the belief that it is their GOD given right to drive like assholes/ change lanes without indicating/ brake suddenly for no reason/ tail-gate you/ flash lights at you and then off course flash the bird at any given time. There are more and more assholes being set free on roads who have little or no understanding of driving, not mention the complete inability to multitask ie; drive, smoke and talk on a cell phone.  They have zero peripheral vision and no concept of where in the universe they are at any given time. Bikers are seen as a sub species and more so if the weapon of mass destruction is a BMW/ Audi/ Mercedes or heaven forbid a Mini being piloted by a 20 something year old smoking and talking on a cell phone.
The truth here people is simple, we are not seen/ valued or cared about, we are in the jungle with assholes who are not equipped or suitably trained to operate cars. The use the roads filled with anger and arrogance and we are targets for their emotions, because we will get there before them.
Look/ Think/ React and be careful out there in the jungle.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kerritz on July 03, 2012, 12:11:49 pm
Well said Cockster!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Chris_M on July 03, 2012, 12:16:27 pm
I recon commuting on a motorcycle in peak hour day in and day out is just asking for shite, condolences to the deceased, no one deserves to die, accidents happen, cant hold it against either of them. my 2c
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: BOER! on July 03, 2012, 12:23:28 pm
Will the real Cocky please stand up!


RIP biker
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 03, 2012, 12:54:00 pm
I recon commuting on a motorcycle in peak hour day in and day out is just asking for shite, condolences to the deceased, no one deserves to die, accidents happen, cant hold it against either of them. my 2c

Some of us have no choice, i dont have a car  ::) I love commuting on the bike i get to work in a good mood.

I dont think we need to prove any more points here, illegal to ride in EL, Illegal to talk on cell, sad set of circumtances that happend, Sparro will now probably be more aware of vehicles and take more care even if he is the the EL, and the lady will also now be more aware of her surroundings.

Strongs to all involved its not a pleasant experience
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Rooies on July 03, 2012, 01:01:49 pm
I recon commuting on a motorcycle in peak hour day in and day out is just asking for shite, condolences to the deceased, no one deserves to die, accidents happen, cant hold it against either of them. my 2c

Chris, with you on this one 100%.  Over the past 3 years I have actively managed down the time I spend commuting.  Its a risk management strategy that I have employed as I strongly believe that as far as commuting goes, its not "if", but "when". And unfortunately in traffic the consequences are usually a lot more serious than on gravel roads or open highways.


RIP Rider.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 01:07:53 pm
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen.


VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Nee Danie jy en Subie is die 2 NEUTE in hierdie sad storie. Julle maak gevolgtrekkings al het julle nie al die feite nie.
Wat van as die bestuurder aan die vroue bestuurder se linkerkant 'n maneuver gemaak het wat na haar kant toe gebeur het en sy het uitgeswaai na regs om die ongeluk te vermy, o ja volgafstand sal mos daar help, hou op gevolgtrekkings maak en dan ook nog probeer Judge Jury en Executioner speel. Jy en Subie hammer op volgafstande blindekolle en o ja julle 2 is die beste bestuurders daar buite (in julle oe natuurlik)

Ai wie het nou gepraat van beste bestuurders? Maak seker jy is op die thread waar jy wil wees.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 01:16:47 pm
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ek glo vir dieselfde rede dat min bikers n hele dag kan ry teen 100 km/h, kan min motoriste konsentreer in verkeer vir n uur. Of so blyk dit uit Jacko se post. Julle laat klink spitsverkeer na die Taladega 500. My neef se vrou, wat nou nie Jody Scheckter is nie, commute al 20 jaar in Joburg se verkeer sonder n enkele voorval. Wat se die wet, as jy agter in n ander motor vasry is dit maar gewoonlik jou skuld. Reg? Maar die dame het nie agter in n motor vasgery toe alles skielik voor haar stop nie, sy het daardie outomatiese skuldaanvaarding omseil deur uit te swaai. Al wat dit haar toe kos is n man se lewe. Geen kostes van haar verhaalbaar. Lekker.
Verkeer ry is die maklikste ding op aarde. Konsentreer net, en moenie vroetel met selfone, lipstiffie, maskara, koerant, BBM, teks, selfoonkamera, konsentreer net. Jacko en kie laat dit tog so moeilik klink :eek7:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 01:18:53 pm
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ek glo vir dieselfde rede dat min bikers n hele dag kan ry teen 100 km/h, kan min motoriste konsentreer in verkeer vir n uur. Of so blyk dit uit Jacko se post. Julle laat klink spitsverkeer na die Taladega 500. My neef se vrou, wat nou nie Jody Scheckter is nie, commute al 20 jaar in Joburg se verkeer sonder n enkele voorval. Wat se die wet, as jy agter in n ander motor vasry is dit maar gewoonlik jou skuld. Reg? Maar die dame het nie agter in n motor vasgery toe alles skielik voor haar stop nie, sy het daardie outomatiese skuldaanvaarding omseil deur uit te swaai. Al wat dit haar toe kos is n man se lewe. Geen kostes van haar verhaalbaar. Lekker.
Verkeer ry is die maklikste ding op aarde. Konsentreer net, en moenie vroetel met selfone, lipstiffie, maskara, koerant, BBM, teks, selfoonkamera, konsentreer net. Jacko en kie laat dit tog so moeilik klink :eek7:


Hoekom dodge jy die hele tyd dat wat die ou gedoen het ook onwettig is?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: roxenz on July 03, 2012, 01:24:14 pm
So 2 stupid acts = one big accident.  

Spot on, sparro.  Good on you for helping.

RIP to the biker and condolences to his family.  :'(

May the car driver at least learn something from this, then another life may be saved. Perhaps. I'd say that more than 80% of the stupid acts I see daily on the road, are cellphone related.  Worldwide these things must kill an enormous amount of people...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 01:24:31 pm
Ouens, ek sal 'n kar by 'n vervaardiger reel en dan sponsor ons vir 2SD dat hy vir 'n dag in Gauteng se spitsverkeer ry. Kom ons se van OR Tambo af Garsfontein toe en dan terug na Fourways en weer OR Tambo toe.

Ek sal kopiereg behou van alle beeldmateriaal van die kameras wat ek binne en buite die voertuig sal installeer.  :laughing4: :laughing4:

Ek glo vir dieselfde rede dat min bikers n hele dag kan ry teen 100 km/h, kan min motoriste konsentreer in verkeer vir n uur. Of so blyk dit uit Jacko se post. Julle laat klink spitsverkeer na die Taladega 500. My neef se vrou, wat nou nie Jody Scheckter is nie, commute al 20 jaar in Joburg se verkeer sonder n enkele voorval. Wat se die wet, as jy agter in n ander motor vasry is dit maar gewoonlik jou skuld. Reg? Maar die dame het nie agter in n motor vasgery toe alles skielik voor haar stop nie, sy het daardie outomatiese skuldaanvaarding omseil deur uit te swaai. Al wat dit haar toe kos is n man se lewe. Geen kostes van haar verhaalbaar. Lekker.
Verkeer ry is die maklikste ding op aarde. Konsentreer net, en moenie vroetel met selfone, lipstiffie, maskara, koerant, BBM, teks, selfoonkamera, konsentreer net. Jacko en kie laat dit tog so moeilik klink :eek7:


Hoekom dodge jy die hele tyd dat wat die ou gedoen het ook onwettig is?

Dwerg, ek het reeds baie vroeer in die argument gese dat die biker duidelik verkeerd was. As jy wil debatteer, lees ASSEBLIEF elke post.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 01:26:05 pm
Nou hoekom hammer jy soos 'n hentie aan oor die vrou?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 01:32:36 pm
Want Dwerg, as jy dieselfde scenario net een baan na links oorskuif, en sy moes steeds uiswaai  omdat sy te na aan die ou voor haar was, en sy dan n biker in die regterbaan doodry, wat is dan anders aan die toneel? Of gaan sy meer aandag aan die verkeer gee as sy nie die luukse van n nood "uitswaai laan" het nie. Ek glo nie.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 01:37:52 pm
Want Dwerg, as jy dieselfde scenario net een baan na links oorskuif, en sy moes steeds uiswaai  omdat sy te na aan die ou voor haar was, en sy dan n biker in die regterbaan doodry, wat is dan anders aan die toneel? Of gaan sy meer aandag aan die verkeer gee as sy nie die luukse van n nood "uitswaai laan" het nie. Ek glo nie.

As die hemel van Daan...

As die biker nie in daai baan was nie was daar nie 'n ongeluk nie. Sien, mens kan dit buide kante toe draai
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: StevedW on July 03, 2012, 01:45:56 pm
I feel sorry for the woman in the car ..... who the f..k expects a car/bike/moon-rover to be in the emergency lane without a siren wailing!!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Bundu on July 03, 2012, 01:57:14 pm
for me the apportionment of blame is irrelevant as I doubt very much it will prevent future casualties in this lawless country...

My principle has always been to drive as defensively as possible, considering as many options as I can think of that a cager can get up to - even a green robot is not regarded as "safe" at certain times of the day
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 03, 2012, 01:58:16 pm
Want Dwerg, as jy dieselfde scenario net een baan na links oorskuif, en sy moes steeds uiswaai  omdat sy te na aan die ou voor haar was, en sy dan n biker in die regterbaan doodry, wat is dan anders aan die toneel? Of gaan sy meer aandag aan die verkeer gee as sy nie die luukse van n nood "uitswaai laan" het nie. Ek glo nie.

This is a silly statement
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: alanB on July 03, 2012, 02:38:54 pm
The "lack of sufficient following distance" argument can also be applied to the biker, why wasn't he able to avoid her swinging out?  Was his speed perhaps too high for the circumstances, shouldn't he have anticipated something like this happening (its not exactly an unusual event for someone to be caught out and have to swerve - its happened to me, without a phone, just thinking about work or something instead of concentrating), especially since the biker was in a place other road users would not expect him to be, which places the onus on him take the extra care?

I don't think its reasonable to say she should have treated the emergency lane as if it were any other lane where vehicles drive all the time, and therefore its her fault entirely.

The fact of the matter is we all expect (quite legitimately IMO) to be able to swerve into the emergency lane, if necessary, whether due to our own fault or not, we don't expect to encounter someone trying to overtake there.  In that case you look for space next to, or even in front of you, not behind where the biker was coming from.  If there was no biker there, her incident would have been nothing but a close call.  But by being there he used up all the safety margin available and paid the price unfortunately. 

You could go on arguing like this for ever...

The fact of the matter is a set of events caused by two people, who were both at fault to some degree combined, and tragically someone died.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: bmad on July 03, 2012, 02:46:53 pm
as one that commutes daily, every work day that is on this highway, i fully understand the dangers and the impact if i have an off.

Commuting is not for everyone, but hell it saves me 2 hours a day :o
When i get on my bike to leave home or work, my objective is to ride safe and arrive at home / work safely in one piece as i have a wife / kid / friends and work mates waiting for me. I believe that because of my own objective, i treat others on the road as i would like them to treat me and i assume every single other driver on the road is not looking out for me. Therefore i ride accordingly.

If you commute you need to understand the situation and accept the consequences, if not, ride the cage rather.
There are too many bikers that take commuting too lightly and you can see them when they come by. I certainly hope they have their angels with them...
 


 
 
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: spiderpigsdad on July 03, 2012, 03:16:56 pm
I am reading this thread with much intrest firstly it amazes me how insensitive some of us can be ! Riding in the EL did not kill this poor fellow the cell phone did ! Had had he been in his lane and the car knocked him into the cars in the lane next to him would the result have been any different ? Cars are still solid objects, like the barrier . Educating all road users and changing our attitudes towards all other road users is our only hope . I commute 90% of the year on my bike and I have found that people on cell phones are by far the biggest hazed on the road , I like taxis they are taking chances all the time so are wide awake and almost always know you are there I cant recall many incidents with then on my bike , in the car that is another story. Guys don't be so quick to judge the rider did not commit suicide he was knocked down by a person on there phone end of story ! RIP my biking brother
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: KaTooMatt on July 03, 2012, 03:25:11 pm
I commute on the M1 - N1 everyday from Wm Nicoll to Glenhove and back. Generally getting on at Corlett in the evenings.

I have realised I ride to my safety rules as they have worked out form me.
I ride in the EL between Rivonia and William Nicoll. I only do it when the traffic is very slow and I keep my speed differential down. When the traffic is stopped I'll be doing 50km/h down this lane and when the traffic is moving I will be going between 20 and 40 km/h faster than the traffic. When the traffic stops suddenly I brake with it for the reasons that led to this crash. As soon as th trafic is moving faster than 80 - 100km/h I move back to conventional lane splitting.

I moved into the EL when I saw many bikers coming past in that lane.  Form William Nicoll to Rivonia the Emergency exit is actually wide enough for two bikes to travel side by side. It gets narrow up the hill after Rivonia. As a result I ride here where it is wide. I find it is much easier to manage traffic on only on side. Yes people encroach on this lane from time to time but if you ride with awareness you can manage these situations.

I get nervous when the traffic backs up as all of a sudden the cages "popcorn" and then nowhere is safe.

I have spent time going through the Road Traffic Regulations and from these it seems the right is a grey area. The rules of the road are from Regulation 296 to 323. The only emergency lane specified is the one on the left behind the yellow lines. It could be argued that the area beyond the white line is a shoulder - then it would be illegal but others would argue the shoulder is the other side of the road beyond the yellow lines for the oncoming traffic. I am not a lawyer. I have asked a traffic cop and he could not tell me. There is no official designation for this bit of road. To come out and unequivocally state you know the law and you may not ride here means you would have to back it up with an excerpt from the Road Traffic act. Quoting K53 manuals is not accurate as according to those splitting is illegal. The RTA says it is legal.

I don't understand why everybody is so heated. I have never been inconvenienced by a bike going down the right while I am splitting. Everybody has to do what is safe in their minds. When somebody flies up from behind while I am splitting at what I regard as safe I look for a gap and move over. Most of the bikes do the same when I come up behind them. I don't blame the biker that died. I don't think anybody who regularly commutes in Gauteng has a right to judge the way those who do ride here. He missed a fatal detail and paid the price.

The fatal detail is the women in the cage was using her cell phone. - NOW THAT IS ILLEGAL.

We must ride with awareness. Yes I know that riding down the right is in many minds illegal. But then so is lane splitting to many minds. As a result when riding my bike I am on the lookout as much as I can. Every car is a threat. That is the best I can do. I hope it is enough.

In terms of this accident everybody has lost sight of the fsct that she hit the back of his bike. He was past her. If she had not been on the phone the accident would not have happened. She did not have the necessary awareness applied where it was required. Maybe if he had been going faster she would have missed him. When the traffic backs up cars swerve all over the place(I call it popcorn). Nowhere is safe because "NOBODY' is looking. The only thing you as a biker can do is be super aware and ready to react be it with a hooter or a swerve.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dish on July 03, 2012, 03:49:57 pm
Have also been watching this thread with interest (see earlier post) but heres the thing... when the dust has settled and we clean the shit out of our eyes a rider is dead and there is a lady who will no doubt feel the effects forever. Blame in this case in irrelevant, it is what it is and its a tragic story.,..

However

During the course of this morning I approached what is very clearly a flashing red light in the fourways area... No problem, should be treated as a fourway stop.. Im at the front, diligently waiting my turn when along comes a guy in a grey navara... (at least ten seconds after the last arrival) - couldnt give a fack about anyone else, just waltzes through in front of two other people who were there before him.... one oke hoots and the navara kid does what... flips him the bird and bellows for him to f off... Now heres a oke so clearly a) in the wrong  b) breaking the law c) ignorant of the rules of the road or just doesnt care yet he proceeds to hurl abuse at the driver in the right ??? WTF..

I find that most traffic interactions go down in a similar manner... No one cares a continental fack about the other guy... no one is tolerant, no one stands up and takes accountability and says "shit, im in the wrong - sorry" - and waves at the oke in apology....  just mere admitting to the fact that you made an error calms the other oke down enormously but no, the general attitude is to counterattack and get into a secraming match, moer the okes mirror off, get out of the cage with a bat etc etc etc.... and for what... a few minutes in saving time

Heres my point - eventually - we as a the human race (local and international) suck at driving and occupying the road with others. We have this fucking air of entitlement that everything belongs to them and screw anyone else who may get in there way, even if they are so completely in the wrong its not funny... screw anyone who contradicts them and who may just may correct them on the mistakes....

Its pathetic to be honest,... we all need to wind our necks in and face the fact that traffic is no game, nor is it a joke and unless we figure out some way to change it its only going to get worse.... whats the the solution I wonder... its simple... your not the road god you think you are... Your not entitled to hurl abuse when your in the wrong... wake the fuck up and start treating others with some courtesy... and they in turn will start treating others and so on and so on....

its that easy,...

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: luv2ride on July 03, 2012, 03:58:16 pm
R.I.P to the rider and condolences to his family and loved once.
Please guys, be awake and stay safe.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: manta on July 03, 2012, 04:08:30 pm
I have read this whole thread and just hearing how this guy died hurts me as a biker.

I have been commuting daily for 8 years and for about 4 did the route in question. The reason I never used the EL lane is because there is a solid white line before you can enter into it. I was taught that you may not cross a solid white line. Now, I am not sure this has changed but that is still a rule.

The other thing which to me is almost more serious and most likely was what killed the biker was his lid coming off. If we take away all the other stuff, that alone would be enough to end his life. That right there was out of the motorists control.

I too would love to blame the motorist exclusively but as has been mentioned repeatedly, this was a confluence of events that led to a fatality. The best we can all do is learn from this so as to avoid becoming a similar statistic in the future.

M
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dirt Junkie on July 03, 2012, 04:12:01 pm
I have read this whole thread and just hearing how this guy died hurts me as a biker.

I have been commuting daily for 8 years and for about 4 did the route in question. The reason I never used the EL lane is because there is a solid white line before you can enter into it. I was taught that you may not cross a solid white line. Now, I am not sure this has changed but that is still a rule.

The other thing which to me is almost more serious and most likely was what killed the biker was his lid coming off. If we take away all the other stuff, that alone would be enough to end his life. That right there was out of the motorists control.

I too would love to blame the motorist exclusively but as has been mentioned repeatedly, this was a confluence of events that led to a fatality. The best we can all do is learn from this so as to avoid becoming a similar statistic in the future.

M
+1  :deal:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 03, 2012, 04:34:10 pm
Feel sorry for the okes that can't feel sorry :peepwall:

I may have to go for some new Hypertension medication, I can feel my blood pressure rise when I see people driving and texting now - I have flashes of this guy being whacked into the concrete - it's freshly imprinted - need to move along.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Ganjora on July 03, 2012, 04:55:45 pm
I may have to go for some new Hypertension medication, I can feel my blood pressure rise when I see people driving and texting now - I have flashes ...

prozac?
it won't change reality,  but you won't care...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 06:04:50 pm
I have read this whole thread and just hearing how this guy died hurts me as a biker.

I have been commuting daily for 8 years and for about 4 did the route in question. The reason I never used the EL lane is because there is a solid white line before you can enter into it. I was taught that you may not cross a solid white line. Now, I am not sure this has changed but that is still a rule.

The other thing which to me is almost more serious and most likely was what killed the biker was his lid coming off. If we take away all the other stuff, that alone would be enough to end his life. That right there was out of the motorists control.

I too would love to blame the motorist exclusively but as has been mentioned repeatedly, this was a confluence of events that led to a fatality. The best we can all do is learn from this so as to avoid becoming a similar statistic in the future.

M

At least somebody also saw the issue with the lid. I posted about the lid but seems its more important to argue the gravy sauce
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 07:31:00 pm
Yes, it is true that the helmet came off, but it came off because of the impact. Maybe it was'nt fastened, maybe the strap broke, we will now never know for sure. It is clear that a lot of us will not see eye to eye on this, and I definitely believe that the biker was killed because of negligence on the part of the woman. Not because of riding in the EL. The EL cannot kill, blind motorists can and does.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Cave Girl on July 03, 2012, 07:43:33 pm
What is really scary about the fact he was in the EL lane is his bike and life insurance could refuse to pay out as he was illegal :-( - I could have uses Boer's hooter at least 3 times today in the traffic!!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 07:45:18 pm
What is really scary about the fact he was in the EL lane is his bike and life insurance could refuse to pay out as he was illegal :-( - I could have uses Boer's at least 3 times today in the traffic!!

his life insurance will pay out, no doubt. The bike insurance might have an issue
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kerritz on July 03, 2012, 07:51:04 pm
Dan....ek is saam met Dwerg op die een.......wat as.....en ja...as is verbrande hout.....maar veronderstel die dame bestuurder word vervang deur iemand op 'n motorfiets.....en vir een of ander rede...gebeur presies dieselfde. Biker nr 1......swaai na regs in die EL laan om ongeluk te vermy...en veroorsaak dood van biker nr2........wat dan?

Gaan jy dit ook op volgafstand of cell fone blameer? Die EL is mos veilig of hoe?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 08:07:46 pm
Dan....ek is saam met Dwerg op die een.......wat as.....en ja...as is verbrande hout.....maar veronderstel die dame bestuurder word vervang deur iemand op 'n motorfiets.....en vir een of ander rede...gebeur presies dieselfde. Biker nr 1......swaai na regs in die EL laan om ongeluk te vermy...en veroorsaak dood van biker nr2........wat dan?

Gaan jy dit ook op volgafstand of cell fone blameer? Die EL is mos veilig of hoe?

Carrots, as jy op n bike ry, en jy bevind jouself in n ry motors, buffer teen voorwiel, agterwiel teen buffer, dan is jy onnosel.
Bike of kar, as jy nie konsentreer nie, en jy swenk voor iemand in omdat jy te min tyd het om te stop, is jy skuldig. Die arme biker drol was onwettig in die NL, maar as hy in die regterbaan was, en sy het oorgeswenk vanuit die linkerbaan, was biker vandag net so dood.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Bundu on July 03, 2012, 08:14:55 pm
......Die arme biker drol was onwettig in die NL, maar as hy in die regterbaan was, en sy het oorgeswenk vanuit die linkerbaan, was biker vandag net so dood.

ek noem gewoonlik nie mense drolle, totdat hulle dit bevestig.... :eek7:

As hy in 'n baan was, neem ek aan die vrou sou hom gesien het, en nie aangeneem het sy swenk in 'n area waar daar 99.9% van die tyd nie verkeer is nie.....

hoe dit ookal sy, ek is oortuig as die arme biker sy lewe sou kon oorhe, sou hy waarskynlik nie weer in die EL gery het nie...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Marnus on July 03, 2012, 08:21:30 pm
Ek reken ek gaan more met die kar ry...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Kerritz on July 03, 2012, 08:23:11 pm
Ek reken ek gaan more met die kar ry...

Dan moet jy maar in Doringkloof gaan parkeer........ :peepwall: :pot:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Chris_M on July 03, 2012, 08:32:44 pm
Some okes around here speak as if they have never broken the law or made a mistake. Jesus christ wanabe mofos by the sounds of things? not a personal attack but hey let him who has never sinned cast the first stone  ;)
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: tgg on July 03, 2012, 08:51:29 pm
Where ever I ride I always look at the situation up ahead, so to anticipate if the car in front will need to do something that I wont anticipate, Hate driving behind trucks and big 4x4 things, as they eliminate that security
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Rags on July 03, 2012, 09:10:52 pm
Are Shark hemlets or those with the quick release clip kark? I just bought one and this thread is making me regret it. So what is the deal?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: StevedW on July 03, 2012, 09:23:40 pm
What we have here is a chain of events with a tragic ending. If the car driver was on the phone, she was wrong. However, if the bike was in the EL then he too was wrong. Two mistakes with a fatal consequence .......all accidents are a culmination of mistakes, sometimes we get away with it!!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Hondsekierie on July 03, 2012, 09:24:37 pm
Where ever I ride I always look at the situation up ahead, so to anticipate if the car in front will need to do something that I wont anticipate, Hate driving behind trucks and big 4x4 things, as they eliminate that security

Jy is heeltemal reg.  

Probleem op hierdie besige highways is dat jou volgdistansie heeltyd in sy moer is.  As jy effe n gaping tussen jou en die ou voor jou laat ontstaan klim daar sommer so 3 x ander karre voor jou in.  Dis hoekom, soos die een ou tereg se, die "popcorn" effek ontstaan as iemand erens skielik briek.  Jy kan nie antisipeer of jy geleidelik, stelselmatig of beheersd gaan briek nie want almal is te naby aan mekaar.  Enigste fokop is dat n kar oor die algemeen baie beter remme as n bike het, veral hierdie fancy karre wat briek asof daar n valskerm agter hom oopgemaak het.

Ek sien egter daagliks hoe bikers soos Kamakazes deur die verkeer beweeg.  Ek het al my moer koud geskrik as daar n superbike by my verbyjaag en my met centimeters mis.  Seker maar sy thrill vir die dag om mense te laat skrik met sy afgesaagde ekzoste maar dink dis ook baie van die manne wat sneuwel op hierdie oorlogsveld.  Vandag weer n clown op n Dakar gesien wat n splinternuwe Audi R8 probeer dice het deur die verkeer tussen Rigel en Louis Botha op N1.  As die man maar net weet watse kak brieke hy eintlik het sou hy seker bietjie afgetap het maar nee, jaag moet hy jaag.

(Nota:  Ek myself ook al lelik daaraan skuldig gemaak, so ja, laat ek nou nie te krities raak nie :biggrin:)
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 09:25:22 pm
Are Shark hemlets or those with the quick release clip kark? I just bought one and this thread is making me regret it. So what is the deal?

Most quick releases are quite safe. The design of the helmet is of such that it must not allows the lid to roll-off for the lack of a better word, off you head. For a start the lid must fit properly.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/Esv/esv16/98S10P30.PDF

http://www.smf.org/testing
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Hondsekierie on July 03, 2012, 09:43:40 pm
Waar is Lucky Striker dat hy bietjie kom skoonmaak hier.  Hier's hopelik te veel twatwaffle/twatwaffle/Hentie? wat ongebruik hier op die vloer rondle.  Michnus, miskien kan jy help as LS dalk op verlof is.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: JVR on July 03, 2012, 09:53:42 pm
ek ry gereeld in die noodlaan,
Is dit wettig?
Ek verwys weer na die "hugger" saga.Jy wil jou bekak omdat die een of ander fokker 121 ry omrede hy kwansuis die wet oortree terwyl jy in die noodlaan rondfok.
Jy moet onthou wat jy waar post. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 09:55:23 pm
Ek weet presies wat ek waar post. En hoekom :mwink:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 09:56:30 pm
Waar is Lucky Striker dat hy bietjie kom skoonmaak hier.  Hier's hopelik te veel twatwaffle/twatwaffle/Hentie? wat ongebruik hier op die vloer rondle.  Michnus, miskien kan jy help as LS dalk op verlof is.

 :thumleft: 

kom nou boys, die bal en nie die man en al daai dinge.  :deal:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 09:58:18 pm
Waar is die threats nou heen? Ek dink swifty sal ingedoen voel
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 03, 2012, 10:25:44 pm
Waar is die threats nou heen? Ek dink swifty sal ingedoen voel

In daai geval ban my ook asb
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 03, 2012, 10:28:20 pm
Jy praat met jouself :eek7:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Chrissie B on July 03, 2012, 10:40:00 pm

I have spent time going through the Road Traffic Regulations and from these it seems the right is a grey area. The rules of the road are from Regulation 296 to 323. The only emergency lane specified is the one on the left behind the yellow lines. It could be argued that the area beyond the white line is a shoulder - then it would be illegal but others would argue the shoulder is the other side of the road beyond the yellow lines for the oncoming traffic. I am not a lawyer. I have asked a traffic cop and he could not tell me. There is no official designation for this bit of road. To come out and unequivocally state you know the law and you may not ride here means you would have to back it up with an excerpt from the Road Traffic act. Quoting K53 manuals is not accurate as according to those splitting is illegal. The RTA says it is legal.

I don't understand why everybody is so heated. I have never been inconvenienced by a bike going down the right while I am splitting. Everybody has to do what is safe in their minds. When somebody flies up from behind while I am splitting at what I regard as safe I look for a gap and move over. Most of the bikes do the same when I come up behind them. I don't blame the biker that died. I don't think anybody who regularly commutes in Gauteng has a right to judge the way those who do ride here. He missed a fatal detail and paid the price.

The fatal detail is the women in the cage was using her cell phone. - NOW THAT IS ILLEGAL.

We must ride with awareness. Yes I know that riding down the right is in many minds illegal. But then so is lane splitting to many minds. As a result when riding my bike I am on the lookout as much as I can. Every car is a threat. That is the best I can do. I hope it is enough.

In terms of this accident everybody has lost sight of the fact that she hit the back of his bike. He was past her. If she had not been on the phone the accident would not have happened. She did not have the necessary awareness applied where it was required. Maybe if he had been going faster she would have missed him. When the traffic backs up cars swerve all over the place(I call it popcorn). Nowhere is safe because "NOBODY' is looking. The only thing you as a biker can do is be super aware and ready to react be it with a hooter or a swerve.

Firstly RIP Biker, and I hope it was not someone I knew!! No one deserves to die just because they made a not so clever decision!  :-[

I also used to commute in Jo'burg traffic, before I moved to MP.  I am always very careful, but no slouch either.  Sometimes slowing down, sometimes having to get a quick burst of speed to get out of tight spots before the cars get too close.  But riding on the right side is just plain dumb IMO.  I also drive a big 4x4 and I would not expect anything to be on the right of me.  Besides, that part of the Highway is too close to the concrete for my liking, even in the 'fast' lane... so... just plain stupid to ride there.  When lane splitting one usually still finds a gap, as the cars are not always right next to each other... but a concrete barrier... Eish!!

And yes, the lady is definitely a lot to blame... I HATE people on cell phones... WTF, are they out to murder??? I have had quite a few close calls.  But fortunately I try to always pay attention to the traffic around me, and I kinda expect peeps on cell phones to do dumb stuff.  I have been rear ended twice on my bikes, because someone was not paying attention! The last time I got off, took the guy's key out the ignition and chucked the keys into the veld! People must learn to pay attention!!!

AND as KaTooMatt so rightly pointed out... a point everyone seemed to be missing throughout the whole thread... she hit him at the rear... that means he was right next to her bonnet and she didn't see him?  Unfortuantely that could make all the difference, she swerved into something that was in plain sight, but since she was too busy texting, she had no idea of her surroundings!!! That could well be construed as culpable homicide!!  I do feel for her, she made a stupid mistake, one that 1000's of drivers make every day, but unfortunately this time there was a biker in the way! I reckon that if he had been lane splitting he may have stood a chance, especially if the traffic was not moving too fast and with some luck there may have even been a little bit of space to recover and not fall... there are many if's and but's and without knowing all the details and real facts, it is hard to put it all together and no one should be too quick to judge either way.  I am pretty sure most of us have texted or talked on the phone while driving, we were just lucky to get away with it.  I hate doing it and will only text if on open road with no traffic near me. But I have talked on the phone while driving in traffic, even if only briefly to get directions or answer a call to tell them I'm driving.  

This is not the first, nor will it be the last of these types of incidents... the nature of traffic and people is just such that there are a mixture off all sorts lumped together, with different skills, out looks, opinions etc etc... it does not make for a harmonious road exsitence.  I am generally polite, but there have been incidents with both cars and other bikes where I just got so mad that I sometimes broke stuff... like mirrors... because some people just bring out the worst in me!

So please all, try to be considerate and polite, even if sometimes you are right and they are wrong!  And for those of you who do Jo'burg traffic every day... please be careful.  I hate reading these kind of things... and one of my very good friends commutes every day, dunno how I would feel if anything had to happen to him!!  :-\

But having said all that... I still love coming to the City to play in the traffic for a while, it is quite an experience and I actually don't mind it at all, I'm very good at traffic!!
  :3some:

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: michnus on July 03, 2012, 10:40:22 pm
Waar is die threats nou heen? Ek dink swifty sal ingedoen voel

In daai geval ban my ook asb


huuh wat?

die thread is nog steeds hier jy post op hom. Ek het hom net skoon gemaak van jou en Dan se laaste handsak swaaiery.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: ahlbebuck on July 03, 2012, 10:49:07 pm
Tragic that two wrongs culminated in the death of the biker, but alas it will always be the outcome of car vs. bike. I loosely quote Subie: Ride as though EVERY vehicle is out to kill you - may not be fun, but being alive is more fun!

RIP Biker and FU*K all drivers using cellphones! >:(
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Rags on July 04, 2012, 02:28:14 am
Are Shark hemlets or those with the quick release clip kark? I just bought one and this thread is making me regret it. So what is the deal?

Most quick releases are quite safe. The design of the helmet is of such that it must not allows the lid to roll-off for the lack of a better word, off you head. For a start the lid must fit properly.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/Esv/esv16/98S10P30.PDF

http://www.smf.org/testing

Thanks for the info. That is reassuring. :)
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 04, 2012, 06:08:37 am
I may have to go for some new Hypertension medication, I can feel my blood pressure rise when I see people driving and texting now - I have flashes ...

prozac?
it won't change reality,  but you won't care...

:imaposer: Does that mean I have to drive a cage, cause I won't care :biggrin:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Skaiidawg on July 04, 2012, 06:31:37 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen.


VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Nee Danie jy en Subie is die 2 NEUTE in hierdie sad storie. Julle maak gevolgtrekkings al het julle nie al die feite nie.
Wat van as die bestuurder aan die vroue bestuurder se linkerkant 'n maneuver gemaak het wat na haar kant toe gebeur het en sy het uitgeswaai na regs om die ongeluk te vermy, o ja volgafstand sal mos daar help, hou op gevolgtrekkings maak en dan ook nog probeer Judge Jury en Executioner speel. Jy en Subie hammer op volgafstande blindekolle en o ja julle 2 is die beste bestuurders daar buite (in julle oe natuurlik)

Ai wie het nou gepraat van beste bestuurders? Maak seker jy is op die thread waar jy wil wees.

Is op die regte thread - jy spoeg bloed and vile about the woman and that there should not be one available to console her. Die beste bestuurder opmerking kom vanaf jou opmerkings en dat dit klink asof jy nog nooit enige foute begaan het wanneer jy 'n voertuig bestuur.

Ek wonder of jy nog so uitgesproke en onsensitief sou wees indien dit jou vrou of dogter was in daardie situasie?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 04, 2012, 07:31:12 am
My opinie is die ongeluk veroorsaak deur n vrou wat van baan verander het/uitgeswaai om watter rede ookal sonder om te kyk of dit veilig is om so te doen.


VOLGAFSTANDE!!!! neut.

Nee Danie jy en Subie is die 2 NEUTE in hierdie sad storie. Julle maak gevolgtrekkings al het julle nie al die feite nie.
Wat van as die bestuurder aan die vroue bestuurder se linkerkant 'n maneuver gemaak het wat na haar kant toe gebeur het en sy het uitgeswaai na regs om die ongeluk te vermy, o ja volgafstand sal mos daar help, hou op gevolgtrekkings maak en dan ook nog probeer Judge Jury en Executioner speel. Jy en Subie hammer op volgafstande blindekolle en o ja julle 2 is die beste bestuurders daar buite (in julle oe natuurlik)

Ai wie het nou gepraat van beste bestuurders? Maak seker jy is op die thread waar jy wil wees.

Is op die regte thread - jy spoeg bloed and vile about the woman and that there should not be one available to console her. Die beste bestuurder opmerking kom vanaf jou opmerkings en dat dit klink asof jy nog nooit enige foute begaan het wanneer jy 'n voertuig bestuur.

Ek wonder of jy nog so uitgesproke en onsensitief sou wees indien dit jou vrou of dogter was in daardie situasie?


Skydog, dit is deel van my argument, was die ryer n Wilddog, of jou broer of seun, dan was dit ook n ander prentjie. Dan het niemand hier kommentaar gelewer, behalwe teen die "evil cager", maar nou is dit n roadbiker, en n onbekende. Die vrou se aandag was nie op die pad nie. Dit was wel n ongeluk, maar een wat voorkom kon word deur haar aandag op die pad te he. Ek ry al 35 jaar lank bike en het al honderde van die gevalle gesien. Ek kan nog nie verstaan dat n persoon wat se dat hy of sy nie n lewensgrootte motorfiets in helder daglig kon raaksien nie, n bestuurslisensie kon behou nie.
Doodeenvoudig; as jy moet uitswaai om te verhoed dat jy in die motor voor jou vasry, het jy gefouteer. Feit. Die feit dat dit maklik gebeur en dat die Gautengse verkeer vreeslik erg is, maak dit geensins reg dat sy in haar poging om n motor voor haar te vermy n motorfietsryer doodmaak nie. Die presiese scenario kon in enige baan afgespeel het, met dieselfde tragiese einde. As jy nie kan konsentreer moet jy liefs n taxi vat. Want sy is net so n gevaar as n dronk bestuurder.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 04, 2012, 07:45:25 am
All of these arguments are fuetile, 2 people were wrong both suffering one with his life and one with life long guilt.

DONT RIDE IN THE EL, ITS WRONG AND ILLEGAL.

DONT TALK ON YOUR CELL WHILE DRIVING ITS WRONG AND ILLEGAL.

Both parties were incorrect.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 04, 2012, 08:07:44 am
Have to agree on that, I was pulled over right opposite the CT airport turnoff for riding in the EL by a cop who crept up on me from behind, in the same lane. I asked him specifically about lane splitting, and he told me that while legal, it is open for interpretation, because it is only legal when done in 100% safety. How can lane splitting be 100% safe when there is alway a speed difference between lanesplitter and cars? Many motorists see lanesplitting as being as illegal and dangerous as riding in the EL.
It boils down to experience and roadsavvy. Do not exceed carspeed by so much that you are not in control anymore. If the cars are doing 40, then doing 50 and slowly passing them all is still tremendously satisfying.
I love the emerging lane :mwink:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: The Silver Fox on July 04, 2012, 08:28:08 am
My wife drives that highway EVERY morning and tells me EVERY day how fast the bikes pass her.
Centre lane and EL.  Enough said.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: darkhelmet on July 04, 2012, 08:37:35 am
Have to agree on that, I was pulled over right opposite the CT airport turnoff for riding in the EL by a cop who crept up on me from behind, in the same lane. I asked him specifically about lane splitting, and he told me that while legal, it is open for interpretation, because it is only legal when done in 100% safety. How can lane splitting be 100% safe when there is alway a speed difference between lanesplitter and cars? Many motorists see lanesplitting as being as illegal and dangerous as riding in the EL.
It boils down to experience and roadsavvy. Do not exceed carspeed by so much that you are not in control anymore. If the cars are doing 40, then doing 50 and slowly passing them all is still tremendously satisfying.
I love the emerging lane :mwink:

Exactly, you on a bike, ride defensive.
Assume that others didnt see you. Sometimes i do stupid things too, but in general i try to remember that the road stops around the corner until your eyes have confirmed otherwise

About speed difference, over here it is allowed to split lanes up to 45 km/u traffic speed, with a maximum speed difference of 10 km/u. In case of an accident you'll probably live....

Very interesting discussion, and my condolences to sparro for this unfortunate experience
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 04, 2012, 08:41:21 am
Cutting emotions out and taking a pragmatic view ...

Both parties committed what seemingly to  most people would be classified as a minor offence, but an illegal act non theless......

..... here's the gigantic difference, the result is ...

One sacrificed   his life (took the risk and paid the price) .....

The other took   a life ....

Not quite equal I would say ...

But this subject has been hammered somewhat - let's all grow bigger from this ...

anyone for a ride ... I know a short cut :biggrin:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 04, 2012, 09:16:51 am
I need to add something ... a lot of people talk about legal and illegal, as if it was important (it isn't)

FACT: There are no acts or statutes to protect you, only to protect "society" (that's not us)

FACT: commuting cagers are braindead, radio, cell phone or co worker beside them, they're not paying attention to the road.

FACT: On a bike, you'll come off worst in any scenario. Don't give them a chance to hit you.

FACT: Your only object is to get where you're going ... alive, and you have the rest of your life to do it.

FACT: If you're in the EL your back is against the wall ... you have no escape route. You always need an escape route.

FACT: Anyone in the EL has not accurately weighed up their options. They ride too fast and relax too much for conditions, leading to a false sense of security. That false sense of security is fatal.

:(
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 04, 2012, 09:20:26 am
The long and short of it are that people are not going to stop being distracted in the traffic, be it the cellphone or similar.  So forget that it was a cell phone and consider any other distraction, and suddenly the whole story changes...  So as a biker you need to take this into consideration.  Similarly, bikers will not stop speeding when the traffic is not flowing, and here I talk to a reasonable speed differential.  The speed in a suburb is 60km/h because of the higher probability of things running into the road and the requisite stopping distances - for the safety of all concerned.

If she (the car driver) had hit her brakes in an emergency situation and swerved as she did, then the 60 km/h speed differential would quickly have been surpassed.
BTW she was in an emergency braking situation so how could she have crashed into the back of the bike?  The Road Traffic Act also states that the overtaking vehicle is to keep clear of the vehicle being overtaken which includes allowing enough room for a reasonable departure in direction.  

So as a biker you just need to realise the risks of the actions that you are taking in the traffic.

From a legal point of view, a lot of common law is based upon the reasonable man test i.e. what would the reasonable person do in that situation?  
1. Well the reasonable car driver is expected to swerve in an emergency situation.  And into the emergency lane as it is an open lane for emergencies.
2. The reasonable biker knows that he should not be riding in an emergency lane because by definition it is an emergency lane for emergency vehicles.  He should also be anticipating that cars may use the emergency lane in an emergency (like this).

The logic applied above suggests that as a biker you can go through a red robot and the car that hits you is in the wrong.

Common sense suggests that a bike challenging a car to a duel will result in serious injuries to the biker irrespective.

The failure of the helmet is a compounding thing - if you want to take risks, wear the correct safety gear.  He may well have suffered a broken neck during the fall.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 04, 2012, 09:21:58 am
I need to add something ... a lot of people talk about legal and illegal, as if it was important (it isn't)

FACT: There are no acts or statutes to protect you, only to protect "society" (that's not us)

FACT: commuting cagers are braindead, radio, cell phone or co worker beside them, they're not paying attention to the road.

FACT: On a bike, you'll come off worst in any scenario. Don't give them a chance to hit you.

FACT: Your only object is to get where you're going ... alive, and you have the rest of your life to do it.

FACT: If you're in the EL your back is against the wall ... you have no escape route. You always need an escape route.

FACT: Anyone in the EL has not accurately weighed up their options. They ride too fast and relax too much for conditions, leading to a false sense of security. That false sense of security is fatal.

:(


agreed 100%
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 04, 2012, 09:23:36 am
My wife drives that highway EVERY morning and tells me EVERY day how fast the bikes pass her.
Centre lane and EL.  Enough said.


Exactly why the woman cannot say that she did not expect anyone in the EL, illegal or not.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Cave Girl on July 04, 2012, 09:58:19 am
What is really scary about the fact he was in the EL lane is his bike and life insurance could refuse to pay out as he was illegal :-( - I could have uses Boer's hooter at least 3 times today in the traffic!!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Cave Girl on July 04, 2012, 10:04:21 am

his life insurance will pay out, no doubt. The bike insurance might have an issue
[/quote]

Depending on the fine print  :(

Standing on the bridge a while back with the guys from Think Bike - they were getting really upset with the number of bikers in the EL - just about climbed over the rail to shout at them and point for them to move back into the traffic ... Their comments were pretty much - Medical aid - Life Insurance and bike insurance have fine print that can be to your detriments if it is proved the accident could have been avoided if you were obeying the rules of the road (Speed, overtaking on a white line, riding in the EL etc.)

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: White Rhino on July 04, 2012, 10:22:13 am
My wife drives that highway EVERY morning and tells me EVERY day how fast the bikes pass her.
Centre lane and EL.  Enough said.


Exactly why the woman cannot say that she did not expect anyone in the EL, illegal or not.

Speculation I would say - you're assuming that she actually paid attention to what's going on around her - the fact that she got caught unaware, suggests that she's pre-occupied with her own needs.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 04, 2012, 02:13:58 pm
Friday morning 7am i'm leaving BP beyers for a rush hour lanesplit around joburg.

If you're an EL rider come ride with me, if you're a biker lane rider come ride with me too. Partly in memorial for this fallen rider, but there are a lot of guys that have died on this highway, construction lane etc.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it's over due that we do something. Standing on overhead bridges is not enough. A long line of bikes through traffic really is the strongest statement we as bikers can make.

I'll also be writing up a letter addressing this in the media ... anyone have any ideas on what should be said?

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: jangys on July 04, 2012, 02:27:38 pm
Friday morning 7am i'm leaving BP beyers for a rush hour lanesplit around joburg.

If you're an EL rider come ride with me, if you're a biker lane rider come ride with me too. Partly in memorial for this fallen rider, but there are a lot of guys that have died on this highway, construction lane etc.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it's over due that we do something. Standing on overhead bridges is not enough. A long line of bikes through traffic really is the strongest statement we as bikers can make.

I'll also be writing up a letter addressing this in the media ... anyone have any ideas on what should be said?



I would say rather to start educating the biking fraternity on safe and responsible riding than a show of force in Friday morning traffic.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: NeilV on July 04, 2012, 02:29:28 pm
Friday morning 7am i'm leaving BP beyers for a rush hour lanesplit around joburg.

If you're an EL rider come ride with me, if you're a biker lane rider come ride with me too. Partly in memorial for this fallen rider, but there are a lot of guys that have died on this highway, construction lane etc.

This isn't going to fix anything, but it's over due that we do something. Standing on overhead bridges is not enough. A long line of bikes through traffic really is the strongest statement we as bikers can make.

I'll also be writing up a letter addressing this in the media ... anyone have any ideas on what should be said?



Who be you? did not see an post on the introduction Board.

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=101980.0
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 04, 2012, 02:30:36 pm
Was called "Roady" Jangys :)

I'm just another guy ...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: jangys on July 04, 2012, 02:31:25 pm
Was called "Roady" Jangys :)

I'm just another guy ...

 :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 04, 2012, 02:43:17 pm
I would say rather to start educating the biking fraternity on safe and responsible riding than a show of force in Friday morning traffic.

Sure, how better to educate than to lead by example?
ER24 have offered their pics collection ... but will gory pics really have ANY effect? The accident occured around 8am, which means that most of the daily commuters had passed already, and by tuesday morning the debris had been magically removed. They don't even know anything happened.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: KaTooMatt on July 04, 2012, 02:56:03 pm

his life insurance will pay out, no doubt. The bike insurance might have an issue

Depending on the fine print  :(

Standing on the bridge a while back with the guys from Think Bike - they were getting really upset with the number of bikers in the EL - just about climbed over the rail to shout at them and point for them to move back into the traffic ... Their comments were pretty much - Medical aid - Life Insurance and bike insurance have fine print that can be to your detriments if it is proved the accident could have been avoided if you were obeying the rules of the road (Speed, overtaking on a white line, riding in the EL etc.)


[/quote]

I complained about the Think Bikers hurtling past me in the EL about a year ago. I find your post interesting. After watching this for months I decided to join them and I have to admit it made the commute a lot less stressful. Now you say they are opposed to riding here.

It show handing stickers out just gets the wrong message out there. Most of the riders that pass me with the Think Bike stickers on are the ones that scare me the most. I feel they should be more considerate if the want the motorists consideration.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: xTzar on July 04, 2012, 06:58:32 pm
I think that riding in the EL is good for bikers and it should become legal to do so as they would not pose a blockage to emergency vehicles. Overall the risks would be less that riding in mainstream traffic.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: luv2ride on July 04, 2012, 07:25:10 pm

his life insurance will pay out, no doubt. The bike insurance might have an issue

Depending on the fine print  :(

Standing on the bridge a while back with the guys from Think Bike - they were getting really upset with the number of bikers in the EL - just about climbed over the rail to shout at them and point for them to move back into the traffic ... Their comments were pretty much - Medical aid - Life Insurance and bike insurance have fine print that can be to your detriments if it is proved the accident could have been avoided if you were obeying the rules of the road (Speed, overtaking on a white line, riding in the EL etc.)



I complained about the Think Bikers hurtling past me in the EL about a year ago. I find your post interesting. After watching this for months I decided to join them and I have to admit it made the commute a lot less stressful. Now you say they are opposed to riding here.

It show handing stickers out just gets the wrong message out there. Most of the riders that pass me with the Think Bike stickers on are the ones that scare me the most. I feel they should be more considerate if the want the motorists consideration.
[/quote]

Hi KaTooMat,

Please bear in mind that ThinkBike most stickers are handed out for free and the reflective bibs can be bought at a lot of bike shops.

There are people living by what Thinkbike stands for and there are those that just got stickers and bought the bib. The active Thinkbikers are the ones that does a lot of work creating awareness and educating all (cagers and bikers alike) Unfortuanately some of those just wearing the bibs do a lot of damage to the good work done by the true supporters.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: xTzar on July 04, 2012, 08:23:23 pm
I think that riding in the EL is good for bikers and it should become legal to do so as they would not pose a blockage to emergency vehicles. Overall the risks would be less that riding in mainstream traffic.

Riding in the EL only in peak traffic hours and maximum speed 70km/h.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 04, 2012, 08:25:44 pm
Or you could just learn to ride your bike on the road properly like the rest of us
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: xTzar on July 04, 2012, 08:26:54 pm
Wanna race?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 04, 2012, 08:29:33 pm
Wanna race?  :biggrin:

 ::)

No thanks
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: xTzar on July 04, 2012, 08:34:51 pm
Or you could just learn to ride your bike on the road properly like the rest of us

 By the way Dwerg, what do you think is wrong with my suggestion?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 04, 2012, 08:42:42 pm
Or you could just learn to ride your bike on the road properly like the rest of us

 By the way Dwerg, what do you think is wrong with my suggestion?

Why should bikers get preferential treatment?
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: xTzar on July 04, 2012, 08:46:50 pm
Ah dude I'm afraid that's a kak answer.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 04, 2012, 08:48:29 pm
Ah dude I'm afraid that's a kak answer.

Ok then  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Firecoast on July 04, 2012, 08:49:44 pm
Ai Dwerg, as dit nie Danie is nie, dan loop iemand anders deur...  :peepwall:

RIP Fellow Biker
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 04, 2012, 08:52:27 pm
Ai Dwerg, as dit nie Danie is nie, dan loop iemand anders deur...  :peepwall:

RIP Fellow Biker

 ???
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 04, 2012, 08:56:53 pm
Or you could just learn to ride your bike on the road properly like the rest of us

 By the way Dwerg, what do you think is wrong with my suggestion?

Why should bikers get preferential treatment?

Geez, Dwerg, as a biker you are getting preferential treatment already. Cars are not allowed to lane split.
Dwerg, watch it, you are turning into 2strokeDan, the argumentative man :imaposer:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Dwerg on July 04, 2012, 09:07:39 pm
Although I sometimes try splitting in the car if I havent driven it for a while
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Garfield on July 04, 2012, 09:19:46 pm
:thumleft:
Or you could just learn to ride your bike on the road properly like the rest of us

 By the way Dwerg, what do you think is wrong with my suggestion?

 :thumleft: makes sense, bikers in the EL  :thumleft: taxis in the yellow lane  :thumleft: cagers allowed to BBM in the fast lane as long as they make way for the blue light brigade  :thumleft:

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: rogerg on July 04, 2012, 09:23:22 pm
RIP - CLOSE TO HOME
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: jangys on July 05, 2012, 07:13:04 am
I would say rather to start educating the biking fraternity on safe and responsible riding than a show of force in Friday morning traffic.

Sure, how better to educate than to lead by example?
ER24 have offered their pics collection ... but will gory pics really have ANY effect? The accident occured around 8am, which means that most of the daily commuters had passed already, and by tuesday morning the debris had been magically removed. They don't even know anything happened.

Yes, leading by example is but one aspect. But another avenue of erecting bill-boards to get the message across, working with the authorities to police those lanes. Don't get me wrong, but Think Bike is seen as the voice for us bikers, they have the name to go out and speak to the authorities to get permissions for billboards and signs. A couple of stickers and banners is not going to reduce the amount of bikers riding there.

Use those pics that ER24 is making available to you, together with your media partner and errect some really strong messaged bill boards and signs. Get JMPD involved to participate in a Think Bike, Safety Drive on a Friday.

May not resolve the issue altogether, but will bring across a strong message.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Sharingroads on July 05, 2012, 07:23:21 am
Lots of pro and con arguments going on here,just like on previous threads.

In short, until ALL South Africans do not start obeying the law, and respecting the law and each other on the road, and the law makes "themselfes" respectable, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Bring in the new laws, the fancy camera systems on the N1, the traffic lights on the offramps - IT WILL NOT WORK, because nobody even respects the older laws that we all grew up with and are still in place.

Sharing Roads!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 05, 2012, 07:40:37 am
Although I sometimes try splitting in the car if I havent driven it for a while


 :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: NeilV on July 05, 2012, 07:51:13 am
Firstly, very sad story this, RIP fellow biker. I truly do feel sorry for everyone that was involved and all the lives that have been affected by it.

I would however like to point out a few things to keep in mind regarding riding in the emergency lane:

- It's illegal
- Most of the debris on the road from accidents etc. ends up in the EL
- Cars that break down make use of the EL, often leaking oil and other liquids in the EL

Considering all of the above I stick to riding in a proper lane or I lane split when its safe to do so.

Be safe out there everyone.  :thumleft:


Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Rooies on July 05, 2012, 07:53:45 am
This thread isn't going anywhere.  I think it should get locked.   :pot:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 05, 2012, 09:18:50 am
Yes, leading by example is but one aspect. But another avenue of erecting bill-boards to get the message across, working with the authorities to police those lanes. Don't get me wrong, but Think Bike is seen as the voice for us bikers, they have the name to go out and speak to the authorities to get permissions for billboards and signs. A couple of stickers and banners is not going to reduce the amount of bikers riding there.

Use those pics that ER24 is making available to you, together with your media partner and errect some really strong messaged bill boards and signs. Get JMPD involved to participate in a Think Bike, Safety Drive on a Friday.

Thank you, much to think about. What would it take to get bikers to talk to each other about this? The knowledge is with us, and not getting to the new commuters (i prefer leaving jmpd out, things are bad enough already)

Garfield and Dwerg   :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Moondog on July 05, 2012, 10:53:56 am
R.I.P. and I hope that the driver finds a way to come to terms with what happened - very tragic. I am with the camp that says that there was fault on both sides - I stay out of the emergency lane.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: jangys on July 05, 2012, 10:55:27 am
Yes, leading by example is but one aspect. But another avenue of erecting bill-boards to get the message across, working with the authorities to police those lanes. Don't get me wrong, but Think Bike is seen as the voice for us bikers, they have the name to go out and speak to the authorities to get permissions for billboards and signs. A couple of stickers and banners is not going to reduce the amount of bikers riding there.

Use those pics that ER24 is making available to you, together with your media partner and errect some really strong messaged bill boards and signs. Get JMPD involved to participate in a Think Bike, Safety Drive on a Friday.

Thank you, much to think about. What would it take to get bikers to talk to each other about this? The knowledge is with us, and not getting to the new commuters (i prefer leaving jmpd out, things are bad enough already)

Garfield and Dwerg   :thumleft:

By Media, use the social media, papers, magazines, especially the biker magazines. I am sure that they will look at a free space if it is bike safety related. I remember seeing something in the Bike SA a While ago. Think Bike posted little snippets, seemed to have disappeared.

Give Training for free. Advertise that Think Bike is doing training, and publish the dates.

Isn,t that what the whole Think Bike thing is all about. Raising Awareness and Saving Lives??

Such a lot of things can be done through sponsorship, you just got to approach it at the right angle and with the right attitude.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 05, 2012, 11:02:26 am
Give Training for free. Advertise that Think Bike is doing training, and publish the dates.

Isn,t that what the whole Think Bike thing is all about. Raising Awareness and Saving Lives??

I have done free training advertised on think bike, 2 guys stopped in to show me how well they can wheelie  ??? Anyone wants parking lot or other training they are welcome to ask. Best training anyone can get is off road :)

Yes, TB should be doing this.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 05, 2012, 11:24:16 am
Is!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 05, 2012, 11:24:27 am
Isn't!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 05, 2012, 11:24:42 am
Isn't!

Screw you, moron!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 05, 2012, 11:25:01 am
Isn't!

Screw you, moron!

Ah fark you, you idiot!  :deal:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Veldbrand on July 05, 2012, 12:16:53 pm
Netso.
Ma is legal!
Naai, issie!
Ek doen't.
Ek doen'tie.
Myne is dikker as joune.
Bla
Bla
Farken bla.

Die punt is, 'n man het sy lewe verloor maak nie nou meer saak wie se skuld dit was nie.
Hierdie thread gaan ook in sirkels nes meeste verskille in R&P.

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: roxenz on July 05, 2012, 12:54:33 pm
Jacko, raas jou kop vanmore, laat jy so met jouself baklei?!   :imaposer:

I don't get involved in trying to prescribe to others what to do. In the end we make our own mistakes and pay our own dues. How and where I ride depends on my own assessment of the circumstances (or sometimes how much wine I had at lunch...).   ;)
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 05, 2012, 12:56:37 pm
Jacko, raas jou kop vanmore, laat jy so met jouself baklei?!   :imaposer:

Daai Jacko het my nou so befok gemaak ek gaan hom bliksem as ek hom in die hande kry.

Klein etterkop!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: KaTooMatt on July 05, 2012, 01:02:40 pm
Jacko, raas jou kop vanmore, laat jy so met jouself baklei?!   :imaposer:

Daai Jacko het my nou so befok gemaak ek gaan hom bliksem as ek hom in die hande kry.

Klein etterkop!
http://voices.yahoo.com/self-talking-symptom-psychosis-82658.html
 :laughing4:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Jacko on July 05, 2012, 01:08:06 pm
Jacko, raas jou kop vanmore, laat jy so met jouself baklei?!   :imaposer:

Daai Jacko het my nou so befok gemaak ek gaan hom bliksem as ek hom in die hande kry.

Klein etterkop!
http://voices.yahoo.com/self-talking-symptom-psychosis-82658.html
 :laughing4:

+1  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: punisher on July 05, 2012, 03:12:20 pm
Jacko, raas jou kop vanmore, laat jy so met jouself baklei?!   :imaposer:

Daai Jacko het my nou so befok gemaak ek gaan hom bliksem as ek hom in die hande kry.

Klein etterkop!

MAAK NET SEKER JY DOEN N ORDENTLIKKE JOB WOOR
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 05, 2012, 03:18:27 pm
Or you could just learn to ride your bike on the road properly like the rest of us

 By the way Dwerg, what do you think is wrong with my suggestion?

Why should bikers get preferential treatment?

Geez, Dwerg, as a biker you are getting preferential treatment already. Cars are not allowed to lane split.
Dwerg, watch it, you are turning into 2strokeDan, the argumentative man :imaposer:

Tried driving in Harare - lane splitting is allowed, just flash your lights and the traffic opens up.  Hoot and shake a fist if the traffic does not open up!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: sparro on July 05, 2012, 04:40:27 pm
I see there's a small report in the Randburg Sun.  Says the car broke down and was being pushed in the emergency lane when the bike rode into the back of it.

Kark storie.  There was not a mark on the back of the car, and the "pusher" would have been dead as well. Why would you push your car along in the ER on highway anyway???
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 05, 2012, 05:47:40 pm
Unbelievable - does this mean that we have had this long debate, threatened to kill each other etc. and we were all mistaken? :patch:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 05, 2012, 06:06:21 pm
... he struck a car that was being pushed after breaking down.

The silver polo was stopped in the right hand lane, its right front wheel had been smashed in, and was lying askew, the corner of the car had also been smashed off. marks against the concrete barrier showed that the bike had hit the car and the barrier in close order, a lot of plastic debris littered the area.

:(

Written on monday.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 05, 2012, 07:59:18 pm
Exactly what has been said on page one. The car moved to the right into the EL, bumping the bike on the side, sending it into the barrier and then the other traffic. If the car was pushed into the EL and nobody saw or heard the bike coming..........blindness lead the way!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Mzee on July 05, 2012, 09:24:58 pm
I have read this thread through with saddness and amusement.  Firstly RIP.  It is always sad when a fellow human departs this way.  Secondly, we bikers are to blame.  We ride as if we own the roads: with extreme arrogance and spite for other road users.  We brake every traffic law in the book.  The best we to proceed is to begin by educating ourselves about the lawful use of our roads.  Maybe all should return to riding schools, etc.  My two cents.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: RogerL on July 06, 2012, 07:44:03 am
When I lived in the US, if you got a traffic fine (and speeding was 51 in a 50 zone) you paid your fine but to avoid losing your points on your licence you went to traffic school where it was like a revision of your learner's licence and all the road rules.

2 things come to mind:
1. Shot those okes are strict - break the law and it in not IF they catch you like here, but simply a matter of time.
2. 12 points on your licence every 5 years, speeding 51 in a 50 zone is 4 points.  Over 60 in a 50 zone is 6 points, and over 70 is automatic suspension and a court (read caught!) appearance.  And do not hit a pedestrian or cyclist/motorbike in your car.

However, taliking on your cell is allowed in certain states???
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Geriatrix on July 06, 2012, 09:05:34 am
Geez, Dwerg, as a biker you are getting preferential treatment already. Cars are not allowed to lane split.


Nothing in the law that says that cars are not allowed to lane split, just as there is nothing that specifically says that bikes are allowed to lane split.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 06, 2012, 09:55:48 am
blindness lead the way!

It wasn't the car's fault dan ... a breakdown being pushed into the emergency lane is 100% correct.

Bike was too fast in the wrong place. Same as all those boys and girls this morning again. Highway was really backed up today, even the cagers took the emergency lanes. Watched for 5 minutes: taxis, peds, cars, bikes and a garden service all sharing the yellow line together, isn't it sweet?

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: punisher on July 06, 2012, 10:12:32 am
I have read this thread through with saddness and amusement.  Firstly RIP.  It is always sad when a fellow human departs this way.  Secondly, we bikers are to blame.  We ride as if we own the roads: with extreme arrogance and spite for other road users.  We brake every traffic law in the book.  The best we to proceed is to begin by educating ourselves about the lawful use of our roads.  Maybe all should return to riding schools, etc.  My two cents.

SPEAK FOR YERSELF
 and please stay off the roads  hey
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Beebop on July 06, 2012, 10:21:26 am
just as there is nothing that specifically says that bikes are allowed to lane split.
Not sure I agree with that.
AFAIK the law states that a bike is allowed to share a lane with a car, not so for cars.
Also a bike can ride between 2 lanes of cars if both lanes are traveling in the same direction. again not true for cars.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Wasp on July 06, 2012, 04:47:10 pm
I have read this thread through with saddness and amusement.  Firstly RIP.  It is always sad when a fellow human departs this way.  Secondly, we bikers are to blame.  We ride as if we own the roads: with extreme arrogance and spite for other road users.  We brake every traffic law in the book.  The best we to proceed is to begin by educating ourselves about the lawful use of our roads.  Maybe all should return to riding schools, etc.  My two cents.

Why all the We? Speak for yourself please >:(
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Geriatrix on July 06, 2012, 09:16:09 pm
just as there is nothing that specifically says that bikes are allowed to lane split.
Not sure I agree with that.
AFAIK the law states that a bike is allowed to share a lane with a car, not so for cars.
Also a bike can ride between 2 lanes of cars if both lanes are traveling in the same direction. again not true for cars.


No
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 06, 2012, 09:52:17 pm
The law says specifically that a motorcycle rider may, if deemed safe to do so, move his machine in between moving cars, thus lane splitting.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: K1300S on July 10, 2012, 10:43:28 am
When I lived in the US, if you got a traffic fine (and speeding was 51 in a 50 zone) you paid your fine but to avoid losing your points on your licence you went to traffic school where it was like a revision of your learner's licence and all the road rules.

2 things come to mind:
1. Shot those okes are strict - break the law and it in not IF they catch you like here, but simply a matter of time.
2. 12 points on your licence every 5 years, speeding 51 in a 50 zone is 4 points.  Over 60 in a 50 zone is 6 points, and over 70 is automatic suspension and a court (read caught!) appearance.  And do not hit a pedestrian or cyclist/motorbike in your car.

However, taliking on your cell is allowed in certain states???

And so is riding without a helmet in certain states....
Does not make it right though.....

RIP to the Fallen Brother and condolences to his family and friends...
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: laurika on July 10, 2012, 11:09:05 am
someone placed a huge Bouquet of Yellow flowers on the wall beneath the bride...to the fallen biker...RIP.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Mzee on July 10, 2012, 01:35:58 pm
someone placed a huge Bouquet of Yellow flowers on the wall beneath the bride...to the fallen biker...RIP.

Amen!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Rooies on July 11, 2012, 12:41:48 pm
someone placed a huge Bouquet of Yellow flowers on the wall beneath the bride...to the fallen biker...RIP.

Also saw it.  Very, very sad indeed.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: King Louis on July 16, 2012, 04:36:33 pm
Shew. What a fred. Just back from overseas, where people drive cars and bikes different than here. Not saying what is right or what is wrong, but noticing what could be better here. Been in a country where everybody rides with a plate. Where cars stop when you are at a pedestrian crossing. Makes you think, coz' I certainly didn't expect it, but it works. Could not find a single friend or family member to give me a ride, having a single dop/beer or whatever.  A touch difficult to compare this with SA, but it does make you think.

Fact is, both did wrong, the rider (rip.....) being in the EL and the driver being on the phone.

The saddest thought is that tomorrow the usual bunch of riders will again be in the EL, as much as the stupid bunch of drivers on cell phones.

Just what does it really take for people to wake up? How much worse than death can it get?............................
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: sparro on July 16, 2012, 08:26:53 pm
I was back on the highway today after 2 weeks of caging or riding Witkoppen.  Lane splitting is much scarier than sticking to EL and its much slower too.  So I think I'll stick to Witkoppen as there is no upside to Highway if not in the EL.

Quite ironically, i get back home around 7pm, in the dark and as I open my front gate with the remote, my pittie charges out the gate to grab some brakkie in the street, I lose my footing trying to stop the damn pitbull and lay down my brand new bike in the drive way.

Broken flicker but not much else.  Strange enough, I was ready to pick up the brakkie in pieces and hide it in the veld, but Enzo just sniffed it and came running back to see me weightlifting the Triumph back up with an amused look on his face >:D Dogs & kids will drive me mad !
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 16, 2012, 10:33:27 pm
That Pitbull almost ran the brakkie into the EL!
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 17, 2012, 07:48:38 am
I thought this thread had gone quite, so i was not going to mention this to stir anything up,

However  :pot:

Last week Wednesday took the XC for a service to centurion, while on the N1 between William Nicol and Rivonia i was lane splitting, lown and behold some twatwaffle on his DS with modified pipe comes screeming down the EL, Ford ranger that i was busy lane splitting next to karked himself and swerved, he bumped into me not hard but enough to push me into the other car, lucky for me i also just brushed his mirror......very close call.

Then for the next 2 mins in my rage and fury i tried to chase down the rider in the EL and after what felt like an eternity probably only 20 seconds i realised that by doing that i am just as big a twatwaffle. so ended up back in lane splitting position saying a quiet thank you to the gardian angels who had to work overtime  :mwink:

Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Mark Hardy on July 17, 2012, 07:55:01 am
Which EL are you guys talking about, is it the left one or the right one. I travel in the far right EL every morning between 7am and 7.20am, all the bikes I see and incounter in that lane ride no faster than 70km/h  and even slower when the traffic is crawling.

 
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 17, 2012, 08:06:12 am
Which EL are you guys talking about, is it the left one or the right one. I travel in the far right EL every morning between 7am and 7.20am, all the bikes I see and incounter in that lane ride no faster than 70km/h  and even slower when the traffic is crawling.

 

The Far right one is the one i am referring too, coming from William Nicol towarards Rivonia.

The speed is not what frightend the motorist in my case it was the loud Pipe and the fact that he saw me and did not expect to see someone scare the Cr*p out of him in the EL.
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: Mark Hardy on July 17, 2012, 08:12:45 am
could not have been me ... my little KLR is quiet  ;D

I has say 99% of the guys I see on my commute are well behaved. Except for the AHole on his GSX 1000 and another idiot on his DL1000, both are seriosly looking for an accident. 
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: vigilant on July 17, 2012, 10:03:00 am
so ended up back in lane splitting position saying a quiet thank you to the gardian angels who had to work overtime  :mwink:

You just made my day boet, good call  :thumleft:

This morning, a superduperbike doing 140 in the EL ....   :bueller:
Title: Re: Fatal accident near malibongwe
Post by: SmokenFly on July 17, 2012, 01:54:23 pm
so ended up back in lane splitting position saying a quiet thank you to the gardian angels who had to work overtime  :mwink:

You just made my day boet, good call  :thumleft:


Was not the easiest call to make, my blood was boiling. But i have a family and kids at home. They come first