Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => Suzuki DR & DRZ => Topic started by: Torque Curve on August 26, 2012, 08:00:09 pm

Title: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 26, 2012, 08:00:09 pm
Threads about recently purchased bikes should start with farkles and ride pics, but unfortunately mine starts with an engine rebuild. The bike performed 100% when I got it and the oil was free of any contaminants. I accept that all damage was done over the past 800km under my use.

I thought that I had run out of fuel last Saturday, but the tank was half. On trying to restart it I was met with a few pops and back-fires, so onto a bakkie it went.
I spent two evenings cleaning and checking the carb and when it still would not start I decided to remove the valve cover as the start of deeper search efforts.
I discoverd that the inlet camshaft had seized on both journals and this caused the camshaft cap to develop a large Y-shaped crack. The left inlet valve is stuck 5mm open and there is a slight metal to metal rub mark on the inlet side of the cylinder wall. I also flushed about 1/2 a teaspoon of metal shavings and particles from the motor.
I discovered that the valve cover, head and cylinder had been removed before and possibly on two different occasions because different sealant residues were present on joining surfaces.

I changed the oil and filter as soon as I got the bike (Castrol Actevo and OEM filter) and found no particles on the magnetic sump plug or in the old oil, so I am quite confident that all damage was caused during the approx. 800km that I put on the bike. So, please be clear that I'm not looking to point fingers or seek any clarification from previous owners.

An entire new head assembly (read good used) is required, new inlet camshaft and at least a cylinder hone and new rings. But since the motor needs to be split entirely to check and measure all components I might as well do what ever work is required to the clutch, replace the timing chain and all oil seals.

I'm looking forward to doing the work on this motor - a lovely bonding experience between man and machine.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: eikeboom on August 26, 2012, 08:04:49 pm
Eina!
Success with the rebuild  :thumleft:
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Skipskop on August 26, 2012, 08:15:31 pm
Eina ,that's is really bad luck . The bike still looking so good on the pic ,what is the mileage . Good luck with the rebuild.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 26, 2012, 08:22:44 pm
Eina ,that's is really bad luck . The bike still looking so good on the pic ,what is the mileage . Good luck with the rebuild.

Thanks Skipskop. Onder 12000 km en ek dink nie die bike was ooit off road voor ek hom begin RY het nie. Het ook getrek soos 'n trein en 20km/l gegee tot net voor die seize!
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Skipskop on August 26, 2012, 08:30:56 pm
Now that I think back ,the KLR has a bush thingy that the filter locates onto an sometimes a mechanic that does not know about it will toss it away with the old filter without noticing, result ,no oil pressure. Your case sound just to co incidental for my liking . Dunno what your knowledge of these motors are and also not pointing ,but I would dig very deep to find the reason for the seizure ,it all points to oil starvation on the cam to me.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 26, 2012, 08:51:02 pm
Now that I think back ,the KLR has a bush thingy that the filter locates onto an sometimes a mechanic that does not know about it will toss it away with the old filter without noticing, result ,no oil pressure. Your case sound just to co incidental for my liking . Dunno what your knowledge of these motors are and also not pointing ,but I would dig very deep to find the reason for the seizure ,it all points to oil starvation on the cam to me.

Expert is having a look tomorrow. The last oil change on this bike was done exactly like the five oil changes on my previous DRZ.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: katana on August 26, 2012, 09:15:14 pm
Just a though...  Sealants that get squeezed inside the engine have a nasty habit of blocking oil passages.  It seems that there was no oil to that cam only? 
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: capeklr on August 26, 2012, 09:21:29 pm
Just a though...  Sealants that get squeezed inside the engine have a nasty habit of blocking oil passages.  It seems that there was no oil to that cam only? 

My thoughts as well, being in the motor trade, I have seen a few seized engine because of sealant. Check all the oil passages very carefully!
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 26, 2012, 10:22:20 pm
Just a thought...  Sealants that get squeezed inside the engine have a nasty habit of blocking oil passages.  It seems that there was no oil to that cam only? 

No proof of excessive sealants so far.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 27, 2012, 10:44:10 am
Right, all oil passages were inspected and there's no sign of blockage anywhere in the motor. The metal deposits cause by the seize is every where so this proves oil has free movement throughout the engine.

Based on the damage to the cap and camshaft the concensus here is that the inlet cam was not pressed into place correctly in the past and/or the cam cap was not torqued correctly. This resulted in oscillating camshaft rotation which over time developed into cam failure. Left inlet valve is bent, valve guide is damaged and conrod still needs to be checked.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 27, 2012, 11:05:00 am
Very nice motor to work on. Use the correct tools and take as many photos as possible, to help you remember where all the bits go. Even the genuine manual doesn't cover every single detail. Mine is still running well without a very important looking washer that was left over after I stripped it. (",) And don't overtighten bolts.. Adhere strictly to torque specs...
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 27, 2012, 12:20:33 pm
Very nice motor to work on. Use the correct tools and take as many photos as possible, to help you remember where all the bits go. Even the genuine manual doesn't cover every single detail. Mine is still running well without a very important looking washer that was left over after I stripped it. (",) And don't overtighten bolts.. Adhere strictly to torque specs...

Thanks, Hedley! can these heads be rebuilt and line-bored or is a replacement my only solution. Lots of American DRZ400S heads on e-bay and then add Hotcams stage 1 to get close to DRZ400E specs, I guess?
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 27, 2012, 02:09:40 pm
Anything can be rebuilt. It depends on the skill, enthusiasm and ability  of the person doing the work. I am sure, just looking at your broken example that it could be repaired. However. You have to consider the cost to do the work, as opposed to the cost of a unit which can be purchased, serviced and fitted with a new set of gaskets.
There are loads of reports of guys doing different modifications to these motors. I would not be able to vouch for the reliability of the motor after such a rebuild but generally, I am lead to believe that they hold. However, mine, with it's standard carb and pipe setup, is more than able.. I wouldn't even consider modifying it. But then, I am just over a year from fifty and have been riding bikes all my life. The bike is a 2001 and has had a lot of mileage put onto it. I am not sure how much. Stripping it to try and find a noise, revealed a really strongly constructed motor and gearbox. The wear was so minimum that I would say it has done 10% of it's lifespan already. Though I know it has high mileage, I am confident it will last me till I die, even if it was the only bike I owned.

I am not sure whether there is a ny difference between the head of an E and an S.. I am inclined to believe not. However. If you contact Suzuki and ask them if the part numbers differ, you should be able to start to work it out. As far as I know, the exhaust and the carb is the only difference in spec between the two bikes. I am lead to believe the cams are the same as well...
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 27, 2012, 05:27:08 pm
Anything can be rebuilt. It depends on the skill, enthusiasm and ability  of the person doing the work. I am sure, just looking at your broken example that it could be repaired. However. You have to consider the cost to do the work, as opposed to the cost of a unit which can be purchased, serviced and fitted with a new set of gaskets.
There are loads of reports of guys doing different modifications to these motors. I would not be able to vouch for the reliability of the motor after such a rebuild but generally, I am lead to believe that they hold. However, mine, with it's standard carb and pipe setup, is more than able.. I wouldn't even consider modifying it. But then, I am just over a year from fifty and have been riding bikes all my life. The bike is a 2001 and has had a lot of mileage put onto it. I am not sure how much. Stripping it to try and find a noise, revealed a really strongly constructed motor and gearbox. The wear was so minimum that I would say it has done 10% of it's lifespan already. Though I know it has high mileage, I am confident it will last me till I die, even if it was the only bike I owned.

I am not sure whether there is a ny difference between the head of an E and an S.. I am inclined to believe not. However. If you contact Suzuki and ask them if the part numbers differ, you should be able to start to work it out. As far as I know, the exhaust and the carb is the only difference in spec between the two bikes. I am lead to believe the cams are the same as well...

Thanks for the encouragement. The only thing shying me away from a total rebuild is the R7500 price tag on a new head. R5000 for a used one off e-bay. The cam caps and the head is a machined match and not sold separately. The money required to rebuild this motor to 100% guaranteed condition exceeds R10000.

The E-cams are quite different from the S-cams: longer opening and more lift on both sides and different opening timing as well. I read somewhere that the valve springs are also different part numbers for the E- and S-models.
This from www.4strokes.com: These specs are directly from Suzuki PR:

Suzuki DR-Z400E
Valve Lift Intake: 8.9mm
Valve Lift Exhaust: 9.3mm
Intake Open: 14 BTDC
Intake Close: 66 ABDC
Exhaust Open: 65 BBDC
Exhaust Close: 29 ATDC

Suzuki DR-Z400S
Valve Lift Intake: 8.5mm
Valve Lift Exhaust: 8.2mm
Intake Open: 20 BTDC
Intake Close: 55 ABDC
Exhaust Open: 56 BBDC
Exhaust Close: 19 ATDC
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 28, 2012, 11:15:31 am
There we go.. Now there is no doubt. I also know now why the E's go so much better than the SM.. Yes. The caps are matched sets with the heads.. Machined together.

Dunno bud.. At that price, I would be trying to find someone who is able and interested, to do the job.. Although, at today's prices, I can't see it being much cheaper than the prices you are talking about... Do a bit of asking around...
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: mtbbiker on August 28, 2012, 01:15:13 pm
Hi
Have you looked for a 2nd hand motor. I have just finish rebuilding my DRZ's motor after 65000 km, Replaced camchain, new piston, nicasil the barrel, new valve seals, new rings, re-wire stator. Why did I do it?? My stator decided to dislodge the 3 bolts connecting it to the generator cover ( I think the auto electrician forgot to use thread locker  :( ). As an after thought I think I only really had to replace the stator and not rebuilding the engine as above parts were still in good condition :-[ I only decided to do a rebuild because the engine was opened and after that amount of hours on the motor I could lengthen its life - Did I mention I like my DRZ :biggrin:. Also in hindsight, I think next time I will do the work myself - It looks like a relative easy motor to work on and there is heaps of information available

Oh it was just under R9K  :'( I feel your pain :'(

Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 28, 2012, 03:32:46 pm
Hi
Have you looked for a 2nd hand motor. I have just finish rebuilding my DRZ's motor after 65000 km, Replaced camchain, new piston, nicasil the barrel, new valve seals, new rings, re-wire stator...
Oh it was just under R9K  :'( I feel your pain :'(



Ja, now add the cost of a new head and two inlet valves to your total and it gets to R15000 quickly. I'll post a list tonight of all parts I need to replace, with quoted values.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 28, 2012, 03:37:09 pm
The used motor is definitely a worthwhile option bud.. Start to look. I have heard of a few that are stripped. Haven't investigated what is left but I am sure that if you start to look, you will find stuff for them..
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 28, 2012, 09:08:29 pm
The used motor is definitely a worthwhile option bud.. Start to look. I have heard of a few that are stripped. Haven't investigated what is left but I am sure that if you start to look, you will find stuff for them..

A used motor is R15000, and none available at the major breakers. The parts I need, priced on www.partshark.com includes a new head, all seals and gaskets, new piston and rings. New camshafts and re-nickasil of cylinder not included


            
Total:
   
$1,245.08 = R10.500
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Etienne2T on August 28, 2012, 09:11:07 pm
R10.500 is not too bad as you'll have a new motor then?

As I understand a LTZ 400 motor also fits.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 28, 2012, 10:07:18 pm
R10.500 is not too bad as you'll have a new motor then?

As I understand a LTZ 400 motor also fits.

I check all over e-bay for LTZ, KFX, CCM, Arctic Cat heads. They use the DRZ motor but not the 400E cam specs, more like 400S cams on most of the quads and only slightly cheaper than new. I'll order all parts in one go to save on shipping. New = peace of mind.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 28, 2012, 11:14:44 pm
It looks as if only the one camshaft is damaged.. I have seen worse repaired.. I will try and contact a mate of mine in JHB for a name of someone who can repair them... I know of a few guys in the Western Cape who can fix... Now just to find a head..
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 29, 2012, 08:38:07 am
It looks as if only the one camshaft is damaged.. I have seen worse repaired.. I will try and contact a mate of mine in JHB for a name of someone who can repair them... I know of a few guys in the Western Cape who can fix... Now just to find a head..

Thanks Hedley. I also found a complete head, barrel and piston in the UK, just waiting to hear if its 400E spec cams. Will appreciate any info you can find about fixing my inlet camshaft.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 29, 2012, 11:01:31 am
Place in CT. I think are called Goch and Cooper.. Very good and enthusiasts.. Helped me with a head on a Polo.. Worked a treat and their prices were reasonable. Service was good, polite and professional.. Got my mate on it, like snot on a retard for info about places in Gautengaleng...
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 30, 2012, 01:31:13 pm
My mate has suggested a place in East London..

The guys name is Gary Miles.. Able to do the cam and will be able to help with the head as well.. Contact details hopefully to follow...
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 30, 2012, 05:25:35 pm
I've been to busy in the garage to even post here for 24h. I cleaned the cams up, took about 3 hours on a centre lathe with 800- and 1200 grit wet & dry paper. I measured the journals after cleaning and they're all within 0.05mm of each other and well within spec. Pics to follow.

I found a cam cap of another model Suzuki which can be machined to fit the DRZ. Tim Basson Performance Engineering in Melkbosstrand is going to bore out the cam caps and insert half-shells for me.

So by saving the cams and repairing the head I'm saving between R6k and R7K.

Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 30, 2012, 06:13:50 pm
Davies' Motors in PE has a large supply of stripped bikes, mostly 80's and 90's Japanese bikes. I found this cap on a shelf with a load of GSXR heads. Its a little longer than stock and the location point for the tappet cover bolt needs to be moved, but all that's easily done in a decent machine shop.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 30, 2012, 06:42:50 pm
Well done bud..

This is what it is all about.. Making a reliable plan... I have heard about Tim.. He has a really good reputation.. Keep us all in the loop..
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: the_BOBNOB on August 30, 2012, 07:29:48 pm
good luck with the rebuild

if i'm not mistaken Go Girl had some pitting on her cams ans she had the cams redone - dont know how they do it but they redo the lobes etc back to spec  :thumleft:

years ago my dad had a crank redone for a 11 special - not sure how they do it but they can rebuild cranks and cams

do you know why this happened ???

whats preventing it from happening again ???
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 30, 2012, 08:06:15 pm
good luck with the rebuild


do you know why this happened ???

whats preventing it from happening again ???

Someone in the past removed the inlet cam cap and it was then not torqued correctly. Several mangled nuts and bolts in motor points to total lack of mechanical ability by whoever worked on it. That's all going to be repaired/replaced. This motor will be as good as the day it left that fantastic SUZUKI factory in Japan!
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 30, 2012, 09:15:48 pm
Two mangled nuts and a few stripped heads all hidden under the clutch cover. I'm guessing this guy owned a hammer, chisel and maybe a leatherman?
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Etienne2T on August 30, 2012, 09:20:43 pm
Ouch thats painful to see.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 30, 2012, 09:49:28 pm
I'm deglazing the cylinder tomorrow. Hoping to remove a slight alu deposit where the piston rubbed after off. Then this goes onto my list. If rebore is required +2mm piston will do nicely.

Its a Wiseco forged piston with Teflon skirts.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on August 31, 2012, 01:17:17 am
I would check the bottom end, just to make sure that the same crude workmanship was not used in there as well.. So not cool to do that to nuts and bolts.. they never torque down properly again after abuse like that...
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Kenzogs on August 31, 2012, 06:43:26 pm
Hannes,

Head all packed. Will get it to Time Freight on Monday.

ken
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on August 31, 2012, 11:19:26 pm
Hannes,

Head all packed. Will get it to Time Freight on Monday.

ken

Thanks again, Ken. I'm so excited about this head you're sending me. As soon as its here I can finalise my parts shopping list and properly get this rebuild started!

Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 01, 2012, 05:16:04 pm
I spent the most of the afternoon cleaning parts and flushing more shavings from the casings. The crank and bearings will need to be pressed out. Again, someone in the past installed bearings and the crank by hammer only, which took also took a chunk out of the side bearing. I'll be replacing all bearings in this motor as well as the conrod. Don't plan to open this motor again, so I'll be doing the job right.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 01, 2012, 05:24:59 pm
The piston and cylinder has some vertical scrapes and slight aluminium rub-off can be seen. As said before, I'm doing this motor once so NS2-Stroke will have to say if it can be repaired to standard or if they have to go over-size.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Skipskop on September 01, 2012, 05:56:56 pm
That`s disgusting workmanship ( actually disgusting even for a butcher-backjard job). please name and shame so we can know who to stay away from . I must say it looks like you are doing a good job of it.
This scares the hell out of me to buy second hand .
This bike was obviously butchered buy the then owner just to get rid of it ,hope it was not the previous owner, otherwise I would let him dock up for the costs.
Sorry for the negative rant ,this is just so wrong .
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on September 01, 2012, 06:20:22 pm
That`s disgusting workmanship ( actually disgusting even for a butcher-backjard job). please name and shame so we can know who to stay away from . I must say it looks like you are doing a good job of it.
This scares the hell out of me to buy second hand .
This bike was obviously butchered buy the then owner just to get rid of it ,hope it was not the previous owner, otherwise I would let him dock up for the costs.
Sorry for the negative rant ,this is just so wrong .


I fully agree.... Name and shame....!!
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 01, 2012, 07:42:21 pm
The previous two owners had the bike for six months and about 3000km. They had no problems and suspected none either. So its my bad luck that the motor went with me as the owner.
If DJ can tell us who he bought the bike from in Dec 2011 we could pick up the scent of a butcher, but I really don't have time for that kind of negative pursuits.
Both owners before me paid a premium for this bike because it looked and went well. I also didn't haggle on price due to the condition of the bike.
I decided to fix this motor and that's that. If we live our lives waiting for people who wronged us to come and apologise that's all we will end up doing - waiting, not living. I say get over it, get on with it!

This beautiful collection of metal flakes is the reason I'm replacing aal the bearings. And no, the 10-spanner wasn't in there, it's to show the actual size of some particles.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on September 02, 2012, 08:07:50 pm
To a large degree what i do with anything mechanical that I buy.. Would be nice to know who the clown is though. He is one of the people who brings the name of the mechanic into disrepute..

Loads of petrol, or whatever you use to clean.. soapy water and a decent amount of compressed air and you should have a clinically clean bucket of bits to reassemble...
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: DJ on September 03, 2012, 07:43:37 am
Hey TC,

Sorry to hear about all the whoa's with the DRZ, it was such a lekker bike and I still miss it.  I was the second owner and the previous guy I bought the bike from had it from new. I never opened the engine and only replaced oil and filter on the bike while I had it. If I had known about the shoddy workmanship inside the motor I would never have bought the bike. I do have his contact details should you want them.

Good luck with the rebuild!!

Cheers,
Dale
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 03, 2012, 07:07:19 pm
Hey TC,

Sorry to hear about all the whoa's with the DRZ, it was such a lekker bike and I still miss it.  I was the second owner and the previous guy I bought the bike from had it from new. I never opened the engine and only replaced oil and filter on the bike while I had it. If I had known about the shoddy workmanship inside the motor I would never have bought the bike. I do have his contact details should you want them.

Good luck with the rebuild!!

Cheers,
Dale

Hi Dale, nice to read from you. Like I said before I'm not into witch-hunts, but if you do see the first owner poke him in the eye for me. ;)
I'm enjoying the work on the motor. Here's some pics of the last strip work I did today. All the bearings were press out on a hydraulic press and I made a sliding hammer to remove bearings from blind holes. The casings are now totally bare and ready for assembly.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 03, 2012, 07:16:48 pm
The oil supply to the clutch cam was blocked off because a non-OEM bearing was installed with its dust seal in place. Some internal engine bearings will require a dust seal to be in place to ensure adequite oil pressure - this is not one of those bearings. My clutch cam now has a notch worn into it.
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: mtbbiker on September 03, 2012, 07:23:28 pm
Well the positive about this whole "incident" is that you will get to know the engine intimately - if I have any questions in the future I know who I will be calling ;D
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 03, 2012, 07:27:18 pm
Well the positive about this whole "incident" is that you will get to know the engine intimately - if I have any questions in the future I know who I will be calling ;D

Ja, I should rename this thread to indicate that it is a rebuild story. A senior colleague advised me to fix the motor - he says its good for one's soul to turn wrongs into rights.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: mtbbiker on September 03, 2012, 08:20:51 pm
 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: DRZ400E seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 04, 2012, 09:09:03 pm
Hannes,

Head all packed. Will get it to Time Freight on Monday.

ken

Ken's head arrived in a box today :lol8: That's Ken's DRZ-head. A beautiful condition complete head which I could just bolt straight on if it wasn't for all the other problems to fix further down in the motor. I've been doing a basic leak-down test on the valves and they've been holding tight for 15 minutes already, so things are really looking good!

Thank you, Ken!!!
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on September 05, 2012, 12:22:43 pm
Don't see a thermostat there.. Is it missing..?
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 05, 2012, 04:24:06 pm
Don't see a thermostat there.. Is it missing..?

Good for noticing, but E-model DRZ's don't have thermostats or radiator fans. By the way the valves in the head I got from Ken showed no leak over night!!
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Kobus on September 05, 2012, 04:56:34 pm
Had to laugh for the plaster on the finger.   :)
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Kenzogs on September 05, 2012, 05:29:12 pm
If the valves in your head leak then your brains run out  ;D
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on September 05, 2012, 06:55:05 pm
Interesting about the fans and thermostats. Makes sense though. I have however come across them with both but later models.. Does this mean that it's an improvement and the older bikes would benefit from the mod...?
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 05, 2012, 07:00:17 pm
Interesting about the fans and thermostats. Makes sense though. I have however come across them with both but later models.. Does this mean that it's an improvement and the older bikes would benefit from the mod...?
 

My 2010 DRZ was also sans thermostat and fan. No, don't think its an improvement as much as a functional reason on the E-motors which were designed with off-road riding in mind. The S and SM models, being road-based, would benefit more from the fan in traffic etc.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on September 05, 2012, 07:28:30 pm
I just cringe when I am battling through deep sand, or hectic rocks where you are mostly not generating land speed. My se would have its fans pomping in a situation like that and both the DRZ and the WR don't have fans.. Just wonder if the repeated, continuous abuse doesn't chisel away at the life of the motor..
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 05, 2012, 08:43:35 pm
I just cringe when I am battling through deep sand, or hectic rocks where you are mostly not generating land speed. My se would have its fans pomping in a situation like that and both the DRZ and the WR don't have fans.. Just wonder if the repeated, continuous abuse doesn't chisel away at the life of the motor..

True, when doing slow technical trails the motor must get hot. Maybe a manual switch onto two Computer fans is a cheap option? Vapors have heat guages that plumb into the radiator hose, but surely cheaper temp guaging is possible?
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on September 05, 2012, 09:31:02 pm
There a a few really nice VW inline switches that will fit perfectly into the pipes on the Zee.. Would just have to check a few specs and which one would do the job properly and then a couple of PC fans. Would do the trick. I actually bought a pair of radiators with a fan from someone who was breaking one up. Would have to get the correct pipes though because the newer models with fans used a different plumbing arrangement.. They have thermoswitches in the rad tanks.. Have to look closely to see what temp they operate at.

My Zee is on hold for now. Trying to get it legal. Once I am certain it's not going to the crusher, I will do the rad mod, fit the rear subframe with the footpeg mounts. Get the nice bits fitted and then decide if it stays or goes.. Must say. I enjoy it more every time I ride it..
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: MildDog on September 05, 2012, 11:16:57 pm
A simpler way to do the fan story: buy a second hand left hand rand from a DRZ SM from the interwebs. The radiator is exactly the same size and shape, but it has a thermostat and a fan fitted. So just needs to be wired up :)

However, if you do that, you can't fit radiator guards onto the left side radiator. The fan gets in the way.

Pretty exciting build :) sucks your engine fell apart so quickly.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Etienne2T on September 05, 2012, 11:41:56 pm
I just cringe when I am battling through deep sand, or hectic rocks where you are mostly not generating land speed. My se would have its fans pomping in a situation like that and both the DRZ and the WR don't have fans.. Just wonder if the repeated, continuous abuse doesn't chisel away at the life of the motor..

True, when doing slow technical trails the motor must get hot. Maybe a manual switch onto two Computer fans is a cheap option? Vapors have heat guages that plumb into the radiator hose, but surely cheaper temp guaging is possible?

I used to run a Vapor dash, and fitted two fans on a switch, they were simple brushless PC fans and you could see a noticeable drop in temperature when they were activated.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 11, 2012, 05:07:33 pm
Update: new bearings pressed into casings. Only two bearings must be bought from agents, the rest are all std items from Bearing Man. The whole lot cost = to buying just the crank side bearings from the agents!

On order via e-bay: +4mm Hot Rods stroker crank, 94mm Cylinder Works barrel, Athena gasket set, Suzuki oil seal set, Kibblewhite valve stem seals, 94mm Vertex forged piston.

bore² x stroke x 0.7857   =  94² x 66.6 x 0.7857 =  462.3 cc  :ricky: :lol8: :ricky:
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on September 11, 2012, 06:39:23 pm
Yip.. Also had to do that exercise when I did my one. Only bearings I had a slight idea 'might" have been a little rough.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: dirtyXT on September 14, 2012, 08:31:02 am
hey sad to see this, but I think aside from the cost/aggravation factors your a pig in shit with this and actually enjoying yourself. thanks for sharing all the details.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 14, 2012, 11:45:47 am
hey sad to see this, but I think aside from the cost/aggravation factors your a pig in shit with this and actually enjoying yourself. thanks for sharing all the details.

Hey, yes I'm enjoying the rebuild. Can't wait tom run-in the new motor. I think she's gonna be a wheelie-crazy tyre-eater.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Tiger8 on September 14, 2012, 02:12:01 pm
Nice one TC, joked earlier, but you doing a great job on this Zzzz  :thumleft: She is going to mooove after this.
If you need more goodies from Bearing Man, give me a shout first, my bil always sorts me out,  :3some:
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 17, 2012, 06:32:13 pm
While some EC Dogs went on a ride with Jupiter on one of the more beautiful days we've had recently, I busied myself with polishing valves, lapping valve seats and cleaning and checking the suspension linkages. The rebuild is going slow at present as I'm waiting for parts from USA to arrive. Valve seating checked tonight with petrol showed 0 leaks! Lapping successful!

I took some time to clean the rear rim and hub while the wheel is out of the frame.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: eikeboom on September 17, 2012, 08:26:39 pm
Nice work there!
What did you use to clean the wheel? It almost looks bead blasted... :o
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: dirtyXT on September 17, 2012, 08:29:46 pm
You gotta share your tricks for cleaning. What products and methods do you use? I used spirits the other day on my sprocket and got amazing results but that's too rough for regular use. Your garage is too clean too.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 17, 2012, 09:11:24 pm
I cleaned the rim hub with a fine wire brush on a drill.

Bike cleaning is a mission at best and there is always a lot of waste products like dirty parafin or solvents that require safe disposal. I wash grease and grime off sprockets and chains with parafin or diesel. Best to wear gloves to prevent excessive drying of skin. For everything else I use cleen green. Used parafin gets recycled as fire-starter fuel over balls of newspaper.

In the UK I washed my bike once a season. Before the winter I sprayed Q20 or WD40 over everything except the tank, seat and handles. If the road salt deposit got to thick I soaked that in spray too. Come cleaning time soak the bike with soap and pressure wash everything right off.

Winn's magwheel cleaner works on rims and alu parts but should NOT be used on anodised or painted surfaces like the rims on the 660 Tenere.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: dirtyXT on September 17, 2012, 09:15:11 pm
Thanks for that tip. No mag wheel cleaner.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 19, 2012, 11:08:44 am
Thanks for that tip. No mag wheel cleaner.

Oh, and also avoid using spirits, thinners or petrol to clean O-ring or X-ring chains. Prolonged or regular exposure can dissolve grease from behind the O-rings. Rather use parafin to clean and then spray lube as required for road or off-road use.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: dirtyXT on September 19, 2012, 11:17:40 am
yeah thanks Ive figured that one out already. annual clean only. hurry up mate with your next episode on your rebuild.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on September 19, 2012, 03:54:59 pm
Hell, man I'm burning up too. Waiting for delivery of parts ordered off e-bay.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on October 01, 2012, 07:11:37 pm
Crank, barrel, gaskets and seals arrived. Fitted the crank, put the gears back in, pulled cases closer with bolts and then...
the cases didn't touch!  :BangHead: :angry4: :angry5: :cussing: So I patiently took everything apart again - NOT! Pressed out the main bearings and measured them. Turns out the OEM main bearings are 1mm narrower than the ones I bought at Bearing Man. I took the originals and asked the sales guy to supply replacements, but never checked the width. So there goes my bearing saving because the OEM bearings are >R800 for the set.

Eventhough I lapped the valves and was happy that they sealed 100% I kept thinking that I'll have a brand-new motor soon with used valves and guides, so I ordered Wiseco valves and Kibblewhite guides. At the end of the project the only used parts will be the crankcases, gearbox internals, head, cams and valvesprings! Total cost so far is R13000. If Kenzogs didn't give me that fantastic head assembly it would be standing >R18000 already.

The difference between the OEM and HR cranks is only a 2mm off-set on the crank-pin which can be seen in the pic. This translates to a 4mm longer stroke and 28cc increase on top of the 36cc added  by the 94mm bore.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: dirtyXT on October 01, 2012, 08:27:46 pm
My worst. Look apart my dt50 gear box once. Never again. Sorry to hear you bearing problems. You're going to be pleased as punch in the end. Think of it as a love hate affair.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on October 20, 2012, 10:01:37 am
If any of you come across a chassis for one of these bikes, around 2001, I am in need of one.. With papers please.... Just the main part of the chassis that the engine is installed into....
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Heddles on October 24, 2012, 05:09:18 pm
Oh dear.. By the looks of the luck I am having, This scoot might be going to the breakers..
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: n0b0dy on October 25, 2012, 04:45:38 am
Remember the days of my XR500. Not fun at all. Nice read. Sorry to hear about motor. Happy to know the tunnel has a light at the end.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: zetman on November 20, 2012, 11:08:42 am
 ??? LOOP SY AL ??? :ricky:
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: lecap on November 21, 2012, 10:03:27 am
...Fitted the crank, put the gears back in, pulled cases closer with bolts and then...
the cases didn't touch!  :BangHead: :angry4: :angry5: :cussing: So I patiently took everything apart again - NOT! Pressed out the main bearings and measured them. Turns out the OEM main bearings are 1mm narrower than the ones I bought at Bearing Man. I took the originals and asked the sales guy to supply replacements, but never checked the width. So there goes my bearing saving because the OEM bearings are >R800 for the set...


Sorry when you mentioned all but two bearings from Bearing Man I assumed you referred to the two main bearings. Else I would have warned you.

Although the OEM main bearings carry a standard bearing type number they also carry an affix to the number which is a slightly unusual sign for a bearing with non standard dimensions.

More commonly you find either a generic type marking distinct from the three to five number code system or a "/xx" affix as in 32005/26 (32005 tapered roller bearing with non standard 26mm / 1mm OS inner bore.

S4!+ happens :D
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 21, 2012, 05:20:46 pm
??? LOOP SY AL ??? :ricky:

Nee, ek wag vir die timing chain. Die res van die motor is aan mekaar. Die clutch kan nie ingaan voordat die timing chain nie in is nie. Sal 'n slag weer foto's oplaai.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 21, 2012, 05:26:39 pm
...Fitted the crank, put the gears back in, pulled cases closer with bolts and then...
the cases didn't touch!  :BangHead: :angry4: :angry5: :cussing: So I patiently took everything apart again - NOT! Pressed out the main bearings and measured them. Turns out the OEM main bearings are 1mm narrower than the ones I bought at Bearing Man. I took the originals and asked the sales guy to supply replacements, but never checked the width. So there goes my bearing saving because the OEM bearings are >R800 for the set...


Sorry when you mentioned all but two bearings from Bearing Man I assumed you referred to the two main bearings. Else I would have warned you.

No, the two bearings I refer to is the needle bearing inside the large starter gear and the one on the clutch shaft. I should actually take up the side bearing issue with Bearing Man because they had the old ones as samples to supply the new ones, but still gave me the incorrect thickness (ignoring the suffix in the part number).
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: lecap on November 22, 2012, 08:27:30 am
... I should actually take up the side bearing issue with Bearing Man because they had the old ones as samples to supply the new ones, but still gave me the incorrect thickness (ignoring the suffix in the part number).

Not really. The markings of the OEM Suzuki bearings are highly unusual, misleading and non standard.
The BMG salesman could have measured them and compared to the old ones so could you.

I had exactly the same problem but realised the difference at the BMG shop and only ended up with a delay having to wait for Suzuki to source the main bearings.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 24, 2012, 03:03:05 pm
Here's an update on my progress: The motor is 90% together and I got fed-up waiting for the timing chain to arrive from US so went and bought one from Suzuki here.  Here's the very mooi 4mm over-size  Vertex piston.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 24, 2012, 03:06:38 pm
One half of motor awaiting assembly and the last few mm's before the casings met up nicely.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 24, 2012, 03:11:41 pm
Balancer gears, starter gear, oil pump, gear selector mechanism.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 24, 2012, 03:16:35 pm
It was a happy moment when the piston went into the barrel.
New water pump seal.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 24, 2012, 03:32:09 pm
This gear set drives the balancing shaft from the crank. The gear on the right is the balancing shaft gear. I need a new one now because of my own impatience! When I torqued the primary nut to 110Nm as specified, I stupidly jammed these two gears to lock the crank. a tooth on the balancer gear broke off when just 80Nm force was applied. So let my error be a warning to all: DON'T JAM GEARS.

The R900 for a new gear is bad and having to wait while it comes from Japan is even worse!!!
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: buzzlightyear on November 24, 2012, 04:06:21 pm
Ouch. Looking good so far!
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: katana on November 25, 2012, 08:06:51 am
Are you assembling the motor 100% dry - no oil film?
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 25, 2012, 05:44:28 pm
Are you assembling the motor 100% dry - no oil film?

No, there's oil there on all the bearings, inside the barrel, big end, small end etc. Each area gets extra oil before covers go on too.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: lecap on November 26, 2012, 07:27:57 am
Here's an update on my progress: The motor is 90% together and I got fed-up waiting for the timing chain to arrive from US so went and bought one from Suzuki here.  Here's the very mooi 4mm over-size  Vertex piston.

Ask and you will be assisted.

Generic (as far as not arriving in a Suzuki box besides that exactly the same as OEM) timing chains are available locally. From me for example.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on November 27, 2012, 03:02:26 pm
Ja, Lecap I know you're a helpful man! But you are in the Cape and my impatience was boiling over in PE!
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on December 12, 2012, 09:48:48 pm
The replacement balancer shaft gear arrived this afternoon. Oil, coolant and tools have been standing ready for weeks.
Putting everything back together went quite quickly. Fortunately I checked the battery yesterday - it was dead and needed to be replaced.
At 9pm I pressed the starter button for the first time in 4 months and the DRZ started up right away and idled smoothly. Must still fit the cosmetics, new tail light and chain and then the riding in will start tomorrow. Pictures will follow.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 13, 2012, 05:01:07 am
Naais! :thumleft:
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: Torque Curve on December 15, 2012, 11:18:30 pm
Last pics on this thread. Complete motor and complete bike sans mirrors and flickers. Taken before leaving to the first dirt ride in four months. I did the first 100km very gently on Friday and changed the oil. Upped the pace a bit today...
The increased torque is very noticable: We rode on well known tracks behind Rover track. The bike now gets the front up on demand. Running at 70-80km/h in fifth I can raise the front off the ground to clear ruts and obstacles. Fourth gear sees full-on power wheelies on any surface where the T63's at 0.8 bar can hook up. Tried to keep it below 100km/h :lol8: and still gently on the revs for the first 500km.
Title: Re: DRZ400E Engine rebuild due to seized camshaft
Post by: bungycool on December 15, 2012, 11:49:51 pm
shoee thats a tidy bike - in the last photo looks like a bottle of beer on the tail!