Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: StevedW on September 02, 2012, 02:28:37 pm

Title: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: StevedW on September 02, 2012, 02:28:37 pm
Amendments to the National Road Traffic Act will come into force on 01 September 2012, and will mean that vehicle owners will need to have their vehicles microdotted or verify that the vehicles have microdot identification (Government Gazette 35130 dated 09 March 2012).

In addition, the Second Hands Goods Act of 2009 which governs the handling of second hand (used goods), also stipulates under Regulation 24 (1) (2) (d), that dealers need to keep a second hands goods register and record all its particulars; including its microdot identification.

What all these provisions mean, in a nutshell is that:-

A new or second-hand vehicle registered after 1 September 2012 must be fitted with microdots (fitted by OEM’s, MIB’s and motor dealers – not operators)
A vehicle presented for Police Clearance after 1 September 2012, should also be fitted with microdots; or its microdot identification should be verified.
Vehicles traded in to motor dealers, should they have a microdot identification, should then be verified before being registered in the dealer’s register.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Kenisis on September 02, 2012, 02:30:55 pm
Sounds like they have figured out how to get the Gravy train going again. :peepwall:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: StevedW on September 02, 2012, 02:45:12 pm
yup .... but I haven't seen anything about this in newspapers or at License dept!!!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Fudmucker on September 02, 2012, 03:10:09 pm
I wonder who got the microdot contract...?  :deal:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Wasp on September 02, 2012, 03:53:34 pm
This is only relevant when a vehicle change ownership. No panic needed
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: bonova on September 02, 2012, 04:00:33 pm
Ja....but i have a bike i need to get into my name.... >:(
I very much doubt queenstown in the eastern cape will have any cooking clue tho hahahaha.
It's a good idea, but as mentioned.......in SA it'll be all about who got the contract to do it......and how badly they will mess it up
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Bundu on September 02, 2012, 04:02:10 pm
fark R995 for a bike.... excluding fitting  >:(  http://www.datadot.co.za/datadot_buy_for_motor_bike.php
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Moondog on September 02, 2012, 04:49:43 pm
fark R995 for a bike.... excluding fitting  >:(  http://www.datadot.co.za/datadot_buy_for_motor_bike.php

Your DataDot® Motorcycle Protection Pack includes:
•Coded PIN DataDots registered to your motorcycle
Fitment of 3 000 DataDots
•Please note: Fitment to motorcycles is controlled by SANS and must be fitted by an accredited fitter.
•Warning identification stickers
•This pack contains enough DataDots to mark multiple locations on your motorcycle or scooter

R995.00 (incl VAT)
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Bundu on September 02, 2012, 04:53:03 pm
sorry missed that  :thumleft:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: wackhead on September 02, 2012, 05:19:10 pm
That is expensive - perhaps the public should go beserk and agree to only pay R500!  Just like e-tolling!  We will have to be a lot more militant in South Africa in the future.  We are not cash cows!

Wackhead
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: punisher on September 02, 2012, 05:35:01 pm
That is expensive - perhaps the public should go beserk and agree to only pay R500!  Just like e-tolling!  We will have to be a lot more militant in South Africa in the future.  We are not cash cows!

Wackhead

yes you are 
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Crowley on September 02, 2012, 05:35:24 pm
Jippy anther good idea implemented in a kak way.

Reading that very broadly this will apply to all vehicles meaning that this will now include anything with a numberplate on it.  >:(


Somewhere along the line this fucking country is going to get the better of me.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on September 02, 2012, 05:45:07 pm
MD of datadot and others in bed with the ruling party again... They must be smiling. Yet another co profiteering from crime...
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Adventurer on September 02, 2012, 06:24:42 pm
I wonder who got the microdot contract...?  :deal:

A JZ family member for sure......

Not entirely a bad thing to have, but it amazes me that we have to spend money because the legal system is a fark up, and we allow Nigerians into SA in their droves......
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: JK on September 02, 2012, 08:14:18 pm
So does this mean that my plan to ride my KTM past 160000 kms and then strip and redo and rspry will now nit be possible, or would i then have to redot  ???
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Just Blip It! on September 02, 2012, 08:31:04 pm
Another gravy train initiative that will not be ready for implementation on the specified date because they are kak useless and couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery! The story of corruption, tender fraud, maladministration, and incompetence will no doubt rein supreme on this one too as usual!  ::)  :-\
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: KabbaHond on September 03, 2012, 10:13:19 am
Mornin Dawgs,

Daar is al klaar onsekerheid met dit ding.

Had a talk with my road worthy station officer about this. He gave me a copy of the page out of the 09 March 2012 Government Gazette. He pointed this out, and I quote...

"3. Regulation 56 of the Regulations is hereby amended by-

a) the insertion of the following subregulation after subregulation (1):

"(1A) A motor vehicle registered for the first time in the Republic on or after 1 September 2012, shall be fitted with microdots ....." unquote.

NOTE: A motor vehicle registered for the first time in the Republic . That is a NEW vehicle, not re-registered.

So...for now, it looks like secondhand vehicles are not on under fire, BUT will be very soon. Wees eers rustig...ons worry weer later.    :ricky:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: domstes on September 03, 2012, 10:17:07 am
Good luck to them getting all the taxi's on the system!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: HONDAKAWA11 on September 03, 2012, 10:27:32 am
Are these guys on acid? g ;Deesh I have not heard of a microdot since the 90's!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Veldbrand on September 03, 2012, 10:45:16 am
Are these guys on acid? g ;Deesh I have not heard of a microdot since the 90's!
Agreed, in the good ol' days we paid R90-00 for one.
Now you can get 3000 for R995-00.
Bargain!!!  :mwink: :biggrin:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Kobus on September 03, 2012, 11:11:58 am
So what exactly is a microdot?           :-\
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: HONDAKAWA11 on September 03, 2012, 11:15:07 am
exactly what its name implies, it is a tiny tiny dot with information about the vehicle or object they are placed on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdot

Microdot identification is a process where tiny identification tags are etched or coded with a given vehicle VIN, asset identification number or a unique serial number. Unique personal identification numbers (PIN), asset identification number or customized customer data entries are also available. The microdots are brushed or sprayed onto the key parts of an asset to provide complete parts marking. The technology was developed in the United States in the 1990s before being commercialized by various manufacturers and distributors around the world.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Drusky on December 18, 2012, 07:10:20 pm
You’ve heard about the law, the procedure and probably the cost but until you have experienced it you don’t really know how the microdot system will affect your blood pressure. Here is my short story.

I bought an old R80ST recently. A lithe, lovely little road machine. A classic beauty. I am very fond of her even though we’ve known only each other for a week. Our one and only brief romp through the country back roads lasted from the courier to my garage.

Now that it is clean up and fix up time I get to see what nasty things have happened to her over time. Most things are acceptable given her age but what I really can’t stand is the microdotting.

Imagine taking a Chernobyl survivor, make sure he has a really gummy gluey chest cold and get him to snort and growl nicely before spitting on every removable part of your lovely machine. Let the gunk dry like hot glue and then stand back to admire the disaster that is microdotting. It fluoresces a purple/blue colour under the UV light of the sun, I have managed to peel some of it off the engine casings but my air mox and multiple other parts appear to be permanently marked. It’s revolting, offensive and ruinous.

If you get this done make sure that the fellow applying the stuff does so on inconspicuous places. Under the mudguard. Under the lid of the airbox. On the inside edge of the frame. Threaten to tar and feather him if he makes your bike look like it has been shat on by fruit bats.

I have tried using acetone to remove one spot. No dice. Anyone have any better ideas?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Fudmucker on December 18, 2012, 07:37:36 pm
According to the Website, a bike kit is R500...?

http://www.datadot.co.za/datadot_buy_for_motor_bike.php
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Motties on December 18, 2012, 07:39:53 pm
I had to do a Venter when I did the change of ownership a month or two ago. Seems currently it depends on where you go, not everyone seems to know about this yet, or do they?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Fudmucker on December 18, 2012, 07:48:46 pm
According to the datadot website, the placement of data dots is defined in SANS 534-1.
Guess what?
If you want to read SANS 534-1, you have to pay SABS the amount of R129 to get a copy!
You can't copy it or photocopy it or scan it or inform anyone else here about it.

The rip-off has just started, guys.
 
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Drusky on December 18, 2012, 09:21:31 pm
The Microdot of the R80St cost R400 in JHB. I recently had an AG200 treated locally through Datadot for R500 odd they did a much neater job than the JHB crowd.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jughead on December 19, 2012, 10:45:18 am
I have the Microdot contract in PE.

R395 for a bike, 3000dots.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: madmax on December 19, 2012, 12:38:26 pm
i just bought 2nd hand bakkie ... had it maybe 1 month or 6 weeks... no miceodots, roadworthied (apparently genuine) by dealer and registred .... done in edenvale
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: donovan paton on December 19, 2012, 12:56:37 pm
Phoned my local dot dealer and asked if I had to have my willy doted as I like to loan it to the wife, was not impressed with me :)
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on December 19, 2012, 01:14:54 pm
There are four companies in South Africa doing microdots:
1.)    Veridot
2.)    Datadot
3.)    Autodot
4.)    Recoveri

It will pay to shop around.

I have been part of the standards writing committee. We never professed that everything is perfect. Yes, like all things new, it will have it's fair share of criticism and teething pains. Corruption to the scale indicated in this thread, I doubt. Maybe it is time that those who make remarks, substantiate it with facts.

I am still a member of the technical committee and we would welcome hard facts to work with.

There are no so-called goverment contracts, and this business is a private initiative with several role players each fighting for market share.

I am fully aware that in future we will have to deal with aspects of corruption and criminality as microdotting become more known and taking effect. But his is for discussion on another day.

Hope this help those who do not understand.


Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Bill the Bong on December 19, 2012, 01:19:04 pm
Its a long time since I've had to read officialese.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Adventurer on December 19, 2012, 01:20:16 pm
There are four companies in South Africa doing microdots:
1.)    Veridot
2.)    Datadot
3.)    Autodot
4.)    Recoveri

It will pay to shop around.

I have been part of the standards writing committee. We never professed that everything is perfect. Yes, like all things new, it will have it's fair share of criticism and teething pains. Corruption to the scale indicated in this thread, I doubt. Maybe it is time that those who make remarks, substantiate it with facts.

I am still a member of the technical committee and we would welcome hard facts to work with.

There are no so-called goverment contracts, and this business is a private initiative with several role players each fighting for market share.

I am fully aware that in future we will have to deal with aspects of corruption and criminality as microdotting become more known and taking effect. But his is for discussion on another day.

Hope this help those who do not understand.




Is this a requirement for border crossing?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Koet on December 19, 2012, 01:47:05 pm
There are four companies in South Africa doing microdots:
1.)    Veridot
2.)    Datadot
3.)    Autodot
4.)    Recoveri

It will pay to shop around.

I have been part of the standards writing committee. We never professed that everything is perfect. Yes, like all things new, it will have it's fair share of criticism and teething pains. Corruption to the scale indicated in this thread, I doubt. Maybe it is time that those who make remarks, substantiate it with facts.

I am still a member of the technical committee and we would welcome hard facts to work with.

There are no so-called goverment contracts, and this business is a private initiative with several role players each fighting for market share.

I am fully aware that in future we will have to deal with aspects of corruption and criminality as microdotting become more known and taking effect. But his is for discussion on another day.

Hope this help those who do not understand.




So does that mean that there is no law that a vehicle must be fitted with this?  Sorry, but this is a bit confusing to me.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on December 19, 2012, 03:07:58 pm
@ Adventurer. I would think that if the vehicle is RSA registered, it must be microdotted. 

@ Koet. It is a legal requirement now for vehicles to be microdotted. What I meant by the remark,highlighted by you, is that this is a private sector initiative driven through government. The Standard requires that all vehicles registered after 1 September 2012, must be microdotted.

Just for interest, the following organizations participated in the workgroup who drafted and reviewed the standard:

Asset Identification Systems CC
Association of Motorcycle Importers and Distributors (AMID)
Business Against Crime South Africa
Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR)
Datadot Technology SA (Pty)Ltd
Department of Transport
Holomatrix (Pty)Ltd
Itaro Information Technologies (Pty)Ltd
National Association of Automobile Manufacturers of SA (NAAMSA)
National Regulator of Compulsory Specifications (NRCS)
Pro Scripto Document Examination CC
Recoveri Tag What's Yours (Pty)Ltd
South African Police Service
Tasima (Pty)Ltd
The Motor Vehicle Security Association of South Africa (VESA)
Veridot (Pty)Ltd

 
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Tweets on December 19, 2012, 04:33:06 pm
For ONCE, I know this is not a gravy train issue. In fact totally contrary . The SAP and the Insurance houses have been lobbing for this for some time.  This is going to slow down the theft for 2nd hand parts big time, and assit the police in sorting out vehicle verification, registration fraud and lots of vehicle issues.  The SAPS really have a tough time trying to stay ahead of the criminals. This microdot requirements is FANTASTIC for us genuine vehicle owners.   
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Fudmucker on December 19, 2012, 05:01:28 pm
J46,

I understand the spirit and intention behind the microdotting. It's all about risk reduction, I know.
It started with microdotting the inside of things like desktops, hi-fi's and such a few years back as an owner's choice, supported by insurance premium reductions commensurate with the reduced risk of theft.
I also notice that the SABS Standards committee had NO REPRESENTATION FROM VEHICLE OWNER ORGANISATIONS (such as the AA).
My problem is with the implementation.
If you had a piece of art, would you permit some klutz the insurance company appointed to spray microdots over the front?
If you had an antique French Polished Louis14th table, would you allow somebody with a spraygun near it to spray stuff onto it.
"But it's only visible under UV light, sir!" you may say.
And in five years... ten years?
Is there any guarantee that the film will NEVER react with the base layer?
If it does, who suffers the damage?  
The OWNER does.
Will the Microdot contractor who sprayed the stuff all over reimburse the owner for such damages?  
Will the SABS - who wrote the standard - reimburse the owner?
Will the State who passes the legislation reimburse the owner?

I have no problem with marking things where they will not normally be seen and will not be affected by cleaning, restoration etc.
But this blanket microdotting of everything on a motorcycle is just too much to bear.
If you are trying to restore a classic motorcycle, you may be using parts sourced off a number of donor bikes.
Does that mean one has to get a police clearance certificate and register the microdots off every donor vehicle?  

The logistics of this are horrendous!

So you buy a sad rusted bike for a restoration project.  
You have to microdot it to take ownership.
How do you restore the finish without obliterating the microdots?  
Having restored the bike you have to REMICRODOT it.

If it was voluntary, a restorer could wait until the vehicle is completed and then have the completed project done.

Making microdotting compulsory is extortion.


Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: eberhard on December 19, 2012, 05:14:41 pm
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: SmuGS on December 19, 2012, 05:38:04 pm
DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THIS TOPIC.. :dousing: :dousing: :dousing:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Fudmucker on December 19, 2012, 06:23:19 pm
What I meant by the remark,highlighted by you, is that this is a private sector initiative driven through government. The Standard requires that all vehicles registered after 1 September 2012, must be microdotted.

Just for interest, the following organizations participated in the workgroup who drafted and reviewed the standard:
INPUT: Lets see who stands to gain financially from the compulsory introduction...

Asset Identification Systems CC - Benefits directly from microdotting requirement?
Association of Motorcycle Importers and Distributors (AMID)
Business Against Crime South Africa
Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR)
Datadot Technology SA (Pty)Ltd - Benefits directly from microdotting requirement?
Department of Transport
Holomatrix (Pty)Ltd - Benefits directly from microdotting requirement?
Itaro Information Technologies (Pty)Ltd - Benefits directly from microdotting requirement?
National Association of Automobile Manufacturers of SA (NAAMSA)
National Regulator of Compulsory Specifications (NRCS)
Pro Scripto Document Examination CC - Benefits directly from microdotting requirement?
Recoveri Tag What's Yours (Pty)Ltd - Benefits directly from microdotting
South African Police Service
Tasima (Pty)Ltd
The Motor Vehicle Security Association of South Africa (VESA) - Benefits directly from microdotting requirement?
Veridot (Pty)Ltd - Benefits directly from microdotting requirement?

I welcome any input from these organisations to present their bona fides to prove that they do not have a potential financial benefit from the introduction of this SANS standard.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on December 19, 2012, 06:54:23 pm
Jannie46

Why am I forced to microdot? It is supposedly there to help against theft, great I like it, but when it comes to cheap used cars of whom the insurance companies don't pay out NEARLY the market value (actual market value, not that stupid little reference book) I don't insure that car except for third party. Why they HELL am I now forced to pay for something I don't want?

Private sector driven by Government....that sounds like another Tenderneur at work.  >:(

Another thing I just thought about...when is the general public consulted on something that is compulsory? Or was it another of those basement meetings after a notice has been published in the National Gazette under the wrong heading?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jughead on December 19, 2012, 07:06:00 pm
J46,

I understand the spirit and intention behind the microdotting. It's all about risk reduction, I know.
It started with microdotting the inside of things like desktops, hi-fi's and such a few years back as an owner's choice, supported by insurance premium reductions commensurate with the reduced risk of theft.
I also notice that the SABS Standards committee had NO REPRESENTATION FROM VEHICLE OWNER ORGANISATIONS (such as the AA).
My problem is with the implementation.
If you had a piece of art, would you permit some klutz the insurance company appointed to spray microdots over the front?
If you had an antique French Polished Louis14th table, would you allow somebody with a spraygun near it to spray stuff onto it.
"But it's only visible under UV light, sir!" you may say.
And in five years... ten years?
Is there any guarantee that the film will NEVER react with the base layer?
If it does, who suffers the damage? 
The OWNER does.
Will the Microdot contractor who sprayed the stuff all over reimburse the owner for such damages? 
Will the SABS - who wrote the standard - reimburse the owner?
Will the State who passes the legislation reimburse the owner?

I have no problem with marking things where they will not normally be seen and will not be affected by cleaning, restoration etc.
But this blanket microdotting of everything on a motorcycle is just too much to bear.
If you are trying to restore a classic motorcycle, you may be using parts sourced off a number of donor bikes.
Does that mean one has to get a police clearance certificate and register the microdots off every donor vehicle? 

The logistics of this are horrendous!

So you buy a sad rusted bike for a restoration project. 
You have to microdot it to take ownership.
How do you restore the finish without obliterating the microdots? 
Having restored the bike you have to REMICRODOT it.

If it was voluntary, a restorer could wait until the vehicle is completed and then have the completed project done.

Making microdotting compulsory is extortion.




Dots applied by me are done with a brush, NOT a spraygun.  You would have to lie on your back under the bike to see them, and would then only be able to see them if you knew where they were.

Had a bike in the workshop the other day that had been dotted with a spraygun in Durban and can understand the anger.  I would throw all my toys if my bike looked like that!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: dual on December 19, 2012, 07:20:22 pm
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=113820.msg2210922#msg2210922

A friend of mine paid R 500.00 yesterday in Hermanus to get it done, talking about 10 000 dots
Kits for bikes with less dots will be cheaper when available

Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jughead on December 19, 2012, 07:23:40 pm
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=113820.msg2210922#msg2210922

A friend of mine paid R 500.00 yesterday in Hermanus to get it done, talking about 10 000 dots
Kits for bikes with less dots will be cheaper when available



Bike kits (3000 dots) are available and I have in stock.  R395 applied.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Adventurer on December 19, 2012, 07:26:15 pm
Ok, but first answer my one question, do vehicles HAVE to have microdots to allowed to cross the border?

And secondly, my car, bike etc is already registered, do I now HAVE to go and have them microdotted?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: dual on December 19, 2012, 08:04:38 pm
According to my friend and the Hermanus SAPD, YES !
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jughead on December 19, 2012, 08:15:30 pm
Ok, but first answer my one question, do vehicles HAVE to have microdots to allowed to cross the border?

And secondly, my car, bike etc is already registered, do I now HAVE to go and have them microdotted?

Not sure about the crossing the border thing.

As far as I'm aware, you do not need your car/bike microdotted at this point in time.  Only new vehicles need to be done.  If however you purchase/sell a vehicle that for some reason needs a police clearance, they will require it to be dotted.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Adventurer on December 19, 2012, 10:19:57 pm
I think it is important to find this out for sure, for those wanting to cross a border soon, or for the Namibia Bash in April......
I understand the importance of having this done to vehicles, I just HATE being told I HAVE to do this, I HAVE to spend money on something someone else has concocted.....surely it is MY choice......kinda like the toll system....
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Teapot on December 20, 2012, 08:14:52 am
First time I've heard of it. I won't pay and won't do it. My bike is a 2000 model and I've had it for 3.5 years. They can chew my sweaty socks.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on December 20, 2012, 09:25:36 am
Glad to see all the response. The only way of sorting the teething problems.

According to the Standard, 7.4.2.3, it is compulsory to apply microdots to at least five of the following areas on a bike:

a.) the information plate, if not attached, the position of the chassis number or the VIN
b.) the chassis or the frame
c.) drive components (e.g drive shaft, rear swing arm)
d.) suspension components
e.) the instrumentation panel
f.) the engine control unit
g.) the engine

7.4.4 states that the following areas are prohibited for application:

a.) areas which negatively affect the warranty of the vehicle (e.g electrical components)
b.) negatively affect the safety of the vehicle (glass or friction areas)

So yes, it is open for input by the owner and the applicator. I would suggest that you find an applicator who knows what he/she is doing when it comes to microdotting a bike.

I would also suggest that a keen interest is taken in the application of the microdots when you are going to have a collectors item microdotted.

Fudmucker, the Standard does not apply to household items. The marking of those are voluntary and has it's own processes should you wish to make use of it. The four companies providing this service can be approached on this. You can test the waters with your insurance company.

Adventurer, as far as border crossing is concerned, it only applies to vehicles registered from 01 September 2012 onwards.

This Standard is only applicable to all "NEW"registrations after the date 01 September 2012, be it a motor vehicle, trailer, bike etc.

Adventurer, should you wish to have your car, bike, trailer etc microdotted which was registered before 01 September 2012, it is your choice. Talk to your insurance company on this, maybe there is a discount in it for you.

Fudmucker with regards to the RESTORATION of vehicles, when it needs police clearance for a new registration, such a vehicle must be microdotted. The key word here is police clearance. If the donor parts are already microdotted, these have to be checked for and recorded by the microdot installer, when the restored vehicle is microdotted for a "NEW"registration.

Then for all, the Goverment had nothing to do with this initiative, it was started by Business Against Crime who consulted with VESA to coordinate this process. Business Against Crime was approached by Datadot initially. It goes without saying that some form of Standard was needed to regulate the microdotting industry, otherwise it would have become a free for all with a lot of confusion that would have followed, watering down the purpose of addressing vehicle theft.

We are the first country in the world that has generate a Standard for this industry.

Yes, implimentation, like with everything else, will cause issues. I am quite confident, that with time, these issues will be addressed and sorted.  

And for those who are concerned about who is benefitting from a business perspective, all the entities which are doing business in microdotting or consulting in this industry. Same for the businesses which are selling anti-theft devices and the like.

I do not profess to know all the answers, but will assist as far as I can, and if I cannot assist, I will try to find the answers for the questions asked.

My role in the Standard was limited to my knowledge as a former policeman, and now a forensic expert with a thorough understanding of forensic processes and how it compliments the judicial process.

Please do not confuse me with CSI, the charlatans (so-called forensic experts) in the industry and the like. >:D :angry5: :angryfire:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Fudmucker on December 20, 2012, 10:12:51 am
Glad to see all the response. The only way of sorting the teething problems.

According to the Standard, 7.4.2.3, it is compulsory to apply microdots to at least five of the following areas on a bike:

a.) the information plate, if not attached, the position of the chassis number or the VIN
b.) the chassis or the frame
c.) drive components (e.g drive shaft, rear swing arm)
d.) suspension components
e.) the instrumentation panel
f.) the engine control unit
g.) the engine

7.4.4 states that the following areas are prohibited for application:

a.) areas which negatively affect the warranty of the vehicle (e.g electrical components)
b.) negatively affect the safety of the vehicle (glass or friction areas)

So yes, it is open for input by the owner and the applicator. I would suggest that you find an applicator who knows what he/she is doing when it comes to microdotting a bike.

I would also suggest that a keen interest is taken in the application of the microdots when you are going to have a collectors item microdotted.

Fudmucker, the Standard does not apply to household items. The marking of those are voluntary and has it's own processes should you wish to make use of it. The four companies providing this service can be approached on this. You can test the waters with your insurance company.

Adventurer, as far as border crossing is concerned, it only applies to vehicles registered from 01 September 2012 onwards.

This Standard is only applicable to all "NEW"registrations after the date 01 September 2012, be it a motor vehicle, trailer, bike etc.

Adventurer, should you wish to have your car, bike, trailer etc microdotted which was registered before 01 September 2012, it is your choice. Talk to your insurance company on this, maybe there is a discount in it for you.

Fudmucker with regards to the RESTORATION of vehicles, when it needs police clearance for a new registration, such a vehicle must be microdotted. The key word here is police clearance. If the donor parts are already microdotted, these have to be checked for and recorded by the microdot installer, when the restored vehicle is microdotted for a "NEW"registration.

Then for all, the Goverment had nothing to do with this initiative, it was started by Business Against Crime who consulted with VESA to coordinate this process. Business Against Crime was approached by Datadot initially. It goes without saying that some form of Standard was needed to regulate the microdotting industry, otherwise it would have become a free for all with a lot of confusion that would have followed, watering down the purpose of addressing vehicle theft.

We are the first country in the world that has generate a Standard for this industry.

Yes, implimentation, like with everything else, will cause issues. I am quite confident, that with time, these issues will be addressed and sorted.  

And for those who are concerned about who is benefitting from a business perspective, all the entities which are doing business in microdotting or consulting in this industry. Same for the businesses which are selling anti-theft devices and the like.

I do not profess to know all the answers, but will assist as far as I can, and if I cannot assist, I will try to find the answers for the questions asked.


There is a tactic in the business world that says:
If there isn't a market for your product, then create one - either by generating individual insecurity (e.g. deodorants, feminine hygiene products...) or by making the general use of your product compulsory to the public by statute, by regulations or by strategic partnerships (e.g. insurance companies).

Anti-theft devices are not compulsory to buy / sell a vehicle.
ATD's may be compulsory to INSURE the vehicle, but that remains a user choice.

Micro-dotting is a forced sale situation.  Next thing the vehicle registration officials will be handing out business cards and getting a finder's commission on sales (if it isn't happening already!)
As I said before, I fully understand the SPIRIT and INTENTION behind micro-dotting from a property protection and "chain of evidence" situation.
This initiative should have been piloted first, the problems identified for elimination and only then introduced as a compulsory mechanism.

Vehicle manufacturers already mark all major components of a vehicle with VIN numbers in places you cannot reach with a grinder to prevent theft and identify the source of major components.
That goes a long way to address the problem and is painless to owners, sellers and buyers.
Paint stripper and spraypaint will remove or obliterate microdots.
Back to square one and yet another forced grudge purchase is in the bag!  >:(

The groups representing Persons with Disabilities have a mantra:
"NO DECISIONS AFFECTING US WITHOUT INVOLVING US"

The same is applicable in this case. 
The process of introducing this SANS Standard is fatally flawed.
It must be withdrawn, rewritten with input from the affected parties and only then implemented.

I also sit on a number of SANS Standards Committees and I know the administrative processes.
It can be  done in less than six months.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on December 20, 2012, 10:27:46 am
Fudmucker, point taken.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Koet on December 20, 2012, 10:28:25 am

There is a tactic in the business world that says:
If there isn't a market for your product, then create one - either by generating individual insecurity (e.g. deodorants, feminine hygiene products...) or by making the general use of your product compulsory to the public by statute, by regulations or by strategic partnerships (e.g. insurance companies).

Anti-theft devices are not compulsory to buy / sell a vehicle.
ATD's may be compulsory to INSURE the vehicle, but that remains a user choice.

Micro-dotting is a forced sale situation.  Next thing the vehicle registration officials will be handing out business cards and getting a finder's commission on sales (if it isn't happening already!)
As I said before, I fully understand the SPIRIT and INTENTION behind micro-dotting from a property protection and "chain of evidence" situation.
This initiative should have been piloted first, the problems identified for elimination and only then introduced as a compulsory mechanism.

Vehicle manufacturers already mark all major components of a vehicle with VIN numbers in places you cannot reach with a grinder to prevent theft and identify the source of major components.
That goes a long way to address the problem and is painless to owners, sellers and buyers.
Paint stripper and spraypaint will remove or obliterate microdots.
Back to square one and yet another forced grudge purchase is in the bag!  >:(

The groups representing Persons with Disabilities have a mantra:
"NO DECISIONS AFFECTING US WITHOUT INVOLVING US"

The same is applicable in this case. 
The process of introducing this SANS Standard is fatally flawed.
It must be withdrawn, rewritten with input from the affected parties and only then implemented.

I also sit on a number of SANS Standards Committees and I know the administrative processes.
It can be  done in less than six months.


 :hello2: :hello2: :hello2: :hello2:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: chicco on December 20, 2012, 10:46:19 am
As from 1 September it became compulsory in South Africa for all new vehicles and vehicles requiring a police clearance to be microdotted.
 
This follows amendments to the Road Traffic Act in March this year, with the aim of reducing vehicle-related crimes and, among others, aiding the police in tracing the owners of stolen vehicles and vehicle spares when recovered.
 
But what is microdotting? Basically, it is an added vehicle-security feature whereby some 10 000 data dots are sprayed onto various locations in a vehicle. These dots, which are almost invisible to the naked eye, have a unique code and this code, along with that specific vehicle’s information, is captured on the National Traffic Information System, or e-NaTIS as it’s called. These dots are viewed with the use of a UV light.
 
Since the introduction of the new regulations, however, the Limpopo Mirror has received several calls from members of the public wanting to know whether microdotting is also compulsory when buying a secondhand vehicle and who is supposed to pay for the service - the dealership or the client? What also upsets members of the public is that no fixed pricing system for microdotting appears to exist. One complainant, a farmer who wanted to buy a tractor, said he received microdotting quotes from different dealerships and agents ranging between R850 and R2 500. The question was asked: Is this not just another money-making scheme for some?
 
Limpopo Mirror contacted several vehicle dealerships, specifically enquiring about legislation with regard to secondhand vehicles, as well as who should pay for microdotting.
 
All of them confirmed that all new vehicles coming in from the manufacturers are, as is now required by law, already microdotted and that those vehicles’ floor price is the selling price. It was, however, pointed out that some dealerships still have new vehicles on their showroom floors received before 1 September that are therefore not microdotted. In these cases, all the dealerships are having the vehicles microdotted at their own expense.
 
Regarding secondhand vehicles, all the dealerships confirmed that they are not at present required by law to have these vehicles microdotted. Should a buyer wish to have a secondhand vehicle microdotted, it will be at his or her own expense. Some dealerships, however, indicated that they had already started microdotting all their secondhand vehicles as this will eventually also become law, possibly as early as February next year.
 
It was determined that the negotiated dealership price for microdotting averages between R1000 and R1 200. Bear in mind that this is a dealership price and not the price an individual would necessarily pay. It is understandable, working on the principle that price is determined by supply and demand and that dealerships having to microdot 20 or 30 vehicles per month will pay far less than an individual only wanting to have one vehicle microdotted. Sadly, for the buyer, there is no fixed price when it comes to microdotting and an agent or dealership can basically charge what it wants. It would therefore be wise to shop around and negotiate a better price with an agent or dealership. As far as could be determined, the only fixed price when it comes to microdotting is when a police clearance certificate is needed. Here the price is R850.
 
Which vehicles presently require microdotting?
 
* All new vehicles, including cars, bakkies, trucks, motorcycles, tractors, trailers and caravans (but not quad bikes);
 
* All vehicles of which the existing information on the e-NaTIS system has changed (for example when a new engine was fitted);
 
* All vehicles requiring a police clearance certificate; and
 
*  All vehicles intended for import or export.
 
Members of the public must make sure that the microdotting done to their vehicle complies with the requirements of standard spesifications, SANS 534-1. If the dots fitted do not comply with this standard, the dots must be refitted.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Koet on December 20, 2012, 10:53:34 am
I'm still not convinced that this will in any way deter thieves from stealing your car.  How is this supposed to stop vehicle theft?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on December 20, 2012, 11:02:07 am
@Koet,if I can help. It will be a pain in the ass to identify and locate approximately 10 000 microdots on a car and effectively clean off all of them. It might not be 100% effective, but it just put another stumbling block in the way of the thief and related down stream business.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: SmuGS on December 20, 2012, 02:26:17 pm
I'm still not convinced that this will in any way deter thieves from stealing your car.  How is this supposed to stop vehicle theft?

It won't, they still gonna steal your car, use it and then dump it on the side of the road...
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on December 20, 2012, 11:39:06 pm
We are forced to pay for another theft stumbling block.....how nice of you.  >:(

A pain in the ass to remove the microdots.....how much more of a pain in the ass will it be considering when cars are stolen, they usually replace THE ENTIRE ENGINE and a few other bits and pieces like instrument panels. With them replacing those parts anyway, finding microdots will be just another step in the process of "rebuilding" the car for reregistration. Mircodot as stubling block = FAIL.

Considering that these microdots are visible with UV light, and those who have them can chime in here about my assumption, they will be pretty easily seen wont they under UV light? No point in marking a car in various places if they government official can't even find them upon inspection? Or do you supply a road-map for where the dots are located? Microdot as "pain in the ass to remove" = FAIL.

Most stolen cars in the Eastern Cape go through Cape Town to get re-registered on the e-natis system (back when I chatted to ex-police who now work for insurance companies). Enough contacts behind the law curtain to get vehicles re-registered. Microdots helping to curb one crucial stumbling block in the fight against car theft = FAIL.

As mentioned by Fudmucker, "NO DECISIONS AFFECTING US WITHOUT INVOLVING US". First time I hear of mircodotting was a few weeks ago in a chat about going over the border, now this thread. Consulting those who are forced to pay = FAIL.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Koet on December 21, 2012, 07:28:54 am
We are forced to pay for another theft stumbling block.....how nice of you.  >:(

A pain in the ass to remove the microdots.....how much more of a pain in the ass will it be considering when cars are stolen, they usually replace THE ENTIRE ENGINE and a few other bits and pieces like instrument panels. With them replacing those parts anyway, finding microdots will be just another step in the process of "rebuilding" the car for reregistration. Mircodot as stubling block = FAIL.

Considering that these microdots are visible with UV light, and those who have them can chime in here about my assumption, they will be pretty easily seen wont they under UV light? No point in marking a car in various places if they government official can't even find them upon inspection? Or do you supply a road-map for where the dots are located? Microdot as "pain in the ass to remove" = FAIL.

Most stolen cars in the Eastern Cape go through Cape Town to get re-registered on the e-natis system (back when I chatted to ex-police who now work for insurance companies). Enough contacts behind the law curtain to get vehicles re-registered. Microdots helping to curb one crucial stumbling block in the fight against car theft = FAIL.

As mentioned by Fudmucker, "NO DECISIONS AFFECTING US WITHOUT INVOLVING US". First time I hear of mircodotting was a few weeks ago in a chat about going over the border, now this thread. Consulting those who are forced to pay = FAIL.

100% agree and well put!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on December 21, 2012, 10:43:25 am
Only 31 members commented on this thread out of 12274 members. Would think that this issue is more controversial than this. Would like to have some more input.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: TeeJay on December 21, 2012, 10:56:59 am
What's the purpose?......lets say they steal your microdotted car....then what? How does it help - they steal your car, it goes to a place where they break it up for spares, the put some of your car's spares in another car (which was also microdotted - so now presumably the one car has different microdots (possibly from various vehicles), maybe the police find your stripped down vehicle....then what....how does it help? Thieves don't care if your car is microdotted or not - if they want it they will take it.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: wayneh on December 21, 2012, 11:00:43 am
It's simply just passing the 'attempted fix' onto someone else plate.

Find the means to stop corruption within the Traffic Department (RE-registration) and Border Control. It amazes me how quickly the discussion changes topic when it comes to corruption in South Africa. Are we being programmed to accept this common activity?

I suggest dramatically increased fines and jail time, administrated by an independent judicial system (free from state manipulation). Surely we pay enough taxes for something in return?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Cracker on December 21, 2012, 12:38:44 pm
Another thought:

Imagine in a few years all vehicles have been microdotted - where do they end up when old? Or better, after the stolen vehicle is recovered with multiple different microdots on - what happens to it? Does it go back to the owner, if so , which piece. And if owner is insurance company, what then? Same with written off vehicles, what happens to them?

eventually, they all become second hand and, to be sold in pieces in a breakers yard.

What if I cross the border with a car with 2, or more, different sets of dots on it or if our wonderboys pull me over and check it out? What if I've bought a second hand car with a stolen door handle? Do I go to prison? Does my car get impounded? Or do they just arrest the handle?

Why are we the first to legislate this? Are we so clever or have the rest of the world looked a bit further ahead and realised it's not worth it?

I am led to believe that 80-90% of our police are extremely bright and non-corrupt but it has always made me wonder why I have only ever had dealings with the other 10%.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: ktmmer on December 21, 2012, 12:51:20 pm
The SAP cannot even return the recovered stolen vehicles, to their rightfull owners how will this microdotting make any difference, other than to the pockets of those benefitting from it.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Fudmucker on December 21, 2012, 02:15:36 pm
Only 31 members commented on this thread out of 12274 members. Would think that this issue is more controversial than this. Would like to have some more input.

MODS: Please make this a sticky thread with a poll for Dogs to respond...?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on December 21, 2012, 02:46:27 pm
Only 31 members commented on this thread out of 12274 members. Would think that this issue is more controversial than this. Would like to have some more input.

And that is your measure? Likely about 75% of the members on this thread aren't classified as "Active". They pop in every now and then to ask a question about their bike; some joined cause a friend joined and that is as far as it went; some join cause they wanted to buy a bike (or sell a bike), asked some questions, got some answers, and pretty much that is were it was left.

Best of all, most people probably don't even know about this microdotting yet, which is VERY concerning considering the "benefits" you propose it supposedly offers. One would assume, if such a revolutionary standard is the first to be done in the world, especially were road users must pay for it by law, it would be pasted all over the mediums of communication. But now, just like E-Tolling, you hope to slide it under the table and surprise everyone!   >:(  Pay up for we don't want to tackle the real problems....or go to jail.

That mere action suggests that this whole microdotting is another gravy train that will fail just like RICA which is a fart in the wind, another step to go through that is completely meaningless and falls FAR short of what it set out to do, that at least for now, costs us nothing. Some bright ideas to make money in this country  :-\
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: ZAR on December 21, 2012, 03:17:33 pm


This will screw the legal secondhand car part  businesses.   :patch: 
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on December 21, 2012, 03:20:35 pm


This will screw the legal secondhand car part  businesses.   :patch: 

Yeah. How does it work now that you buy a front fender, gearbox and waterpump at the scrapyard? Do I have to get a certificate with each part from the three cars I salvaged them from? Or I buy those parts over "Tandvleisboom" from a guy who crashed his car. Must I pay for a certificate for each part I buy from him especially if I want to sell those parts?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: eberhard on December 21, 2012, 03:21:04 pm
Is microdotting only a money making scheme? Security (like in protecting your person and property) is not a priority for the government. Anyone who believes that the government has your security at heart, is a fool. Security in SA is what you make of it. How much you are prepared to invest. Not your friendly policeman coming to your assistance. In how many breakins do the robbers know exactly where your guns are? Got the info from your friendly policeman. E.g. those rhinos that got killed days after the farmer filed his application to move them. Before that the government did not know about their existence. Two points here: (1) security is your, and only your concern; (2) in whose hands will possible information end up. As correctly pointed out above, how can microdotting curb car theft? It is tantamount to the government saying that burglar doors are compulsory, as it will prevent house robberies. Again, the government cares a sh#t. It is your decision. Also pointed out above, the AA was not approached for input, neither the general public. It appears to have been a private, in house decision, as said earlier, to MAKE MONEY!!! (and to make more criminals from innocent, law abiding, over taxed citizens)
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Arno Roux on December 21, 2012, 03:40:49 pm
EK hoor alles wat julle se en alles wat julle redineer.

Wat ek wil weet.

1) Hoe lyk die goed??
2) Hoe lyk dit as dit op n bike gesit is??
3) As die goed 1mm in deursnee is en jy moet 3000 op n bike sit. Moenie vi my se hulle gaan dit net mooi opsit op die plekke wat bo genoem is nie.
4) Hoe word dit opgesit? met spraygun of verf kwas ja. Waar is ek as hulle die kak op my bike sit.
5) Dink nou vir jouself, Iemand soos Hans Coertze, Hy is een van die manne wat met die oudste fietse die DJ Run doen. Hy doen dit weer die jaar met n 1911 Humber en sy Pel met n 1909 Humber. Daai fietse is oor die R2 Miljoen werd. ek vat myself, Ek is besig met my Dream en dan gaan ek die DKW tackle. as hulle die verf op#$% dan wat dan.
6) die dots is 1mm in deursnee, DWS 54x54 mm gaan die dots wees en die Shite wat saam opgesit word om dit te laat plak maak dit dan hoeveel

Nee ek weet darm nie, Klink vir my of iemand ook lekker geld maak met die kak, net soos die Vuurwapen lisensies
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Dogboxelectric on December 21, 2012, 03:54:48 pm
It looks like fly shit. If it is applied by the supplying company as with cars they have specific places where they put it. The police(the awake ones) know where to look for microdots. They have a serial number printed on them, when you purchase the microdot that serial number is then assigned to you on a database, the police have access to the database when they recover a vehicle the check the pre agreed application sites with a UV lamp, when and if they find them they have either a USB scanner or microscope type thingy. Ghey then crossreference the serial number on the dot with the database and Viola, or thats supposed to be how it works.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Dogboxelectric on December 21, 2012, 03:56:24 pm
Maybe i should have read all the posts.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: lowflya on December 21, 2012, 04:46:38 pm
Oh ! so all the 4x4 and suv's being stolen are crossing the borders at the "Border Posts" !!! I don't think so, dots won't stop a thing when your vehicle gets taken across any one of many "Informal" crossing points !!!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Arno Roux on December 21, 2012, 05:45:44 pm
7 )  Ok wat gebeur as jy die fiets repaint.

Die poepelle gaan dit seker iewers wet maak. hulle vra hier by ons R500 so dws ek het 9 goed wat nommerplate op het. Dus gaan dit my R4500 kos. Se moer man
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Cracker on December 21, 2012, 08:41:42 pm
These ostriches are farting against thunder - always been like that - always will be - bonehead mentality!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Bill the Bong on December 21, 2012, 09:50:24 pm
What frightens me is that the insurance companies will make this compulsory even though it may not be a legal requirement.  Same as the tracker shit I used to have to fit on my bikes.  Suddenly it stops being a requirement but I had to buy 2 @ R450 and pay R160 p/m for 2 bikes for 3 years. 

Vultures
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: knightrat on December 21, 2012, 10:19:10 pm
Wonder if the factory fitted microdots on the new BMW's are accepted locally??

When I bought my bakkie last year I was told that certain vehicles back then were compulsory? My insurance company didn't care.. its that window etching business all over again? it will help with the identification of the rightful owner should the vehicle be recovered, but its certainly not going to help stop the theft? As it is the cops don't pull over and look at a nice easy to read vin plate, what's going to make them try read tiny microdots?

as said earlier, nice idea, kuk method of implementation!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Oshkosh on December 22, 2012, 06:09:03 am
What's the purpose?......lets say they steal your microdotted car....then what? How does it help - they steal your car, it goes to a place where they break it up for spares, the put some of your car's spares in another car (which was also microdotted - so now presumably the one car has different microdots (possibly from various vehicles), maybe the police find your stripped down vehicle....then what....how does it help? Thieves don't care if your car is microdotted or not - if they want it they will take it.

My thoughts exactly they not going to read the fine printed sticker stuck on your windscreen his there to steal it come hell or high water.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Arno Roux on December 22, 2012, 06:21:15 am
What's the purpose?......lets say they steal your microdotted car....then what? How does it help - they steal your car, it goes to a place where they break it up for spares, the put some of your car's spares in another car (which was also microdotted - so now presumably the one car has different microdots (possibly from various vehicles), maybe the police find your stripped down vehicle....then what....how does it help? Thieves don't care if your car is microdotted or not - if they want it they will take it.

My thoughts exactly they not going to read the fine printed sticker stuck on your windscreen his there to steal it come hell or high water.

Nee julle verstaan verkeerd. Daar is net een of twee diewe en 3000 of 10 000 micro dots. Die microdots gaan die diewe hard moer :pot:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Mad Matt on December 22, 2012, 09:15:33 am
Had to have my new Dirt Bike done, dont know how they gonna make this work!! The idea is good but logic hasnt been brought into the equation, for starters our civil servants are not committed enough or at all!!! There is definately gonna be a problem with 2nd hand parts....are we gonna have to register each part that is bought with other dots on?? If the bike gets stollen are we gonna get a call from SAPS - ehhh Mr Piet Pompies wi hav rekavad yo stolan vihighkle radiator kap..... ! Talk about rubbing more salt into the wound!
Whats stopping the scabs from aquiring a UV light and then removing the dots???? The high pressure cleaner removed a lot of them off my scoot! The solvents you can buy today can remove most things! maybe we should use them to remove the wankers that made this compulsory!!!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: KtmMick on December 23, 2012, 02:21:51 pm
I think that the statement made that South Africa is the only one who has a "STANDARD" should be verified.
Microdots is old technology and in a Country with so much corruption is doomed to failure. What good is it having it on new vehicles? They will just steal and hijack the ones without it! As for Border control..........well if they can get stuff out now without it being discovered a few dots is not going to help.
On a positive note if your vehicle is dotted and they catch criminals with it in their possession in theory they should be able to link all the crimes to that person or persons.
Zero help when the inefficient Police lose the dockets or the Public Prosecutor throws the case out.
It is like gun laws.......they don't work............the criminals don't abide by the law same thing here.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Arno Roux on December 23, 2012, 03:36:11 pm
:useless:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on January 07, 2013, 09:23:45 pm
Let's start this up again, it is 2013 and we still don't know. Jannie46...waar is jy?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on January 14, 2013, 11:00:58 am
If you need a collector's bike our any bike for that matter, microdotted, you can get it custom done by Recoveri. I spoke to Phillip Opperman and he said that they have purpose trained fitters who use customized application kits to mark bikes. Philip can be contacted 011-453 0868.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on January 14, 2013, 03:13:26 pm
We have moved on a bit about what to do about microdotting vintage cars/bikes/etc. What really irks me is that this mircodotting has been passed as law and yet the public, majority of which have no clue about it, have not been involved or notified. I have not seen this on the news, nor heard it on the radio, no ads on tv or radio or even the internet.

Please provide the procedures and parties involved when it came to passing of this law onto the public which involves the public forking out the money for a failed system. Where was meeting held? Who was approached in government about this system? When was public, not business, involvement requested (if ever) before the implementation and passing as law? Which case studies have been put forth to indicate that microdotting is such an advanced ant-theft system that it must be forced onto the general public and not given as an additional choice like for example, car alarm, tracking systems and steering locks?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Rooivark on January 14, 2013, 03:54:13 pm
Jannie46
Ek het n voorstel:Vat jy en jou maatjies julle mikrodotjies en druk dit in julle g@tte !
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: RobC on January 14, 2013, 03:59:56 pm
That is expensive - perhaps the public should go beserk and agree to only pay R500!  Just like e-tolling!  We will have to be a lot more militant in South Africa in the future.  We are not cash cows!

Wackhead
This is no fool proof idea either... another government sanctioned scam like E-tol. :patch:
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on January 14, 2013, 04:11:23 pm
Rooivark, moet my nie kruisig vir n stelsel waarin ek n bydrae gelewe het van n forensiese oogpunt af nie. Die wetgewing en implimentering het "f&k%l met my te doen gehad nie, net so min as die idiee van mikroskyfies op voertuie en dies meer.

Do not shoot the messenger. The only thing I have been doing to date is to give positive input wherever I can.

Jusitifiably, people have a right to opinions and viewpoints, but then direct it at the right people.

I am still prepared to assist where I can, but will not entertain any abuse. Any constructive criticism will be welcomed.

NUF SAID!
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on January 14, 2013, 04:14:51 pm
O yes. Direct your anger and abuse to towards the Department of Transport, Business Against Crime, Vesa and the South African Police Service.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Koet on January 14, 2013, 04:16:45 pm
Rooivark, moet my nie kruisig vir n stelsel waarin ek n bydrae gelewe het van n forensiese oogpunt af nie. Die wetgewing en implimentering het "f&k%l met my te doen gehad nie, net so min as die idiee van mikroskyfies op voertuie en dies meer.

Do not shoot the messenger. The only thing I have been doing to date is to give positive input wherever I can.

Jusitifiably, people have a right to opinions and viewpoints, but then direct it at the right people.

I am still prepared to assist where I can, but will not entertain any abuse. Any constructive criticism will be welcomed.

NUF SAID!

Agree with your post Jannie.  I'm not happy about microdotting being forced upon us at all, especially as I don't see how it will curb theft in any way.  But attacking Jannie won't help at all.  He's been very happy to take constructive comments, even when they are complaints.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on January 14, 2013, 04:50:38 pm
O yes. Direct your anger and abuse to towards the Department of Transport, Business Against Crime, Vesa and the South African Police Service.

Hi Jannie. Do you have any specific people we can contact regarding this? I am sure there must have been champions who took the proposal forward, ran with it and had it implemented.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Cracker on January 14, 2013, 06:36:58 pm
Jannie, besides reading it, what are you going to do with the constructive criticism?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Adventurer on January 14, 2013, 07:09:13 pm
I'm told only vehicles which get placed on the NATIS system after September 2012 have to be microdotted, before that it is your choice.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Arno Roux on January 14, 2013, 09:50:32 pm
Nee Kurt, As jy na Sept 2012 Polisie Clearence op n voertuig moet kry moet jy dit laat Microdot voordat die polisie vir jou klaring sal gee
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Adventurer on January 14, 2013, 09:52:52 pm
Nee Kurt, As jy na Sept 2012 Polisie Clearence op n voertuig moet kry moet jy dit laat Microdot voordat die polisie vir jou klaring sal gee

I'm sure, but if you need police clearance I think that means being re-registered on the Natis system?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on January 14, 2013, 10:23:04 pm
Inprogress, you can contact Fouche Burgers at Business Against Crime or Dave Menday of Datadot.

Cracker, I am still a member of the Technical Committee, so much of what have been discussed here would probably be reviewed at the committee at our next meeting. I am also in contact with the Microdot Suppliers and one of the police officers on the ground responsible for the microdot initiative with whom I share information from time to time.

Koet, there is sufficient research available which has been done in some European countries, where microdots have been applied on selected brands and where vehicle theft of these specific types of vehicles have decreased by more than 40%. Interestingly enough, microdots are not even legislated or regulated in these countries, just think of the impact it will have when it becomes compulsory. I do understand that there is already international interest in our approach here.

KtmMick, yes the technology might be old in relative terms, but maybe you should brush up on the latest developments. How does writing of 2 microns in size on a dot of 0.5mm x 0.5mm sounds, and then also with holographic properties? South Africa is without argument the first country in the world who has developed a Standard for the industry and who at this moment is putting together a Regulatory body for the industry. Yes, I do agree that there are teething problems and that it is far from successful, but, no use sitting with our arms folded and shift reponsibility around.

Wackhead agreed, that is one of the issues that will become a hot topic with the Regulating body. Like with all new industries, there will always be opportunists around abusing the system for a while.


Hope the answers are satisfactory for the moment.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on January 14, 2013, 11:18:13 pm
Inprogress, you can contact Fouche Burgers at Business Against Crime or Dave Menday of Datadot.


Dankie Jannie.  :thumleft: Wie is die staats beampte wat dit bevorder? Of, wie is die enkel persoon in die staat wat genader was en die proses mee bevorder is? Kan jy uitvind asseblief?
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jannie46 on January 15, 2013, 07:43:51 am
Inprogress, kan jy jou navraag opneem met Fouche Burgers asseblief. Navrae van hierdie aard behoort aan hom gerig te word. Ek backtrack nie maar dit is buite my veld van betrokkendheid.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Rooivark on January 15, 2013, 08:06:44 am
Follow the money.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Inprogress on January 15, 2013, 11:14:40 am
Inprogress, kan jy jou navraag opneem met Fouche Burgers asseblief. Navrae van hierdie aard behoort aan hom gerig te word. Ek backtrack nie maar dit is buite my veld van betrokkendheid.

Cool beans. Dankie, ek sal bietjie opvolg.
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: the_BOBNOB on February 16, 2013, 11:47:09 pm
i was at honda today just browsing the bikes no display and had a close look here and there and if it is what i saw microdot my ass

those things are huge  :o
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Arno Roux on February 17, 2013, 07:15:46 am
:useless:

Still no Pichas
Title: Re: you gotta get microdotted!!!
Post by: Jughead on February 17, 2013, 07:54:18 pm
Here's one Microdotted by me.