Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: MINZI on October 16, 2012, 06:37:28 am

Title: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 16, 2012, 06:37:28 am
How is this for a new money making scheme. We had to cancel our ECO trip this year due to my Stepdad being sick and passing away. We contacted Maluti Adventures a couple of weeks ago and informed them. They refunded our accommodation minus some fees, no problem. Our entries into the ECO were filled immediately. David de Bruyn from BMW Clubs informed us that they can not refund our entry fees due to the fact that they had to pay all the vendors already.

Now, my problem is, we paid, the people that took over our entry paid their money, but BMW will not refund our entry fee. Talk about being paid double for performing a single duty.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 16, 2012, 06:42:11 am
BMW ECOnomics  :laughing4:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 1ougat on October 16, 2012, 06:46:16 am
Man I am going there and going to enjoy the ripoff  ............ >:D  :deal:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 16, 2012, 06:53:41 am
Man I am going there and going to enjoy the ripoff  ............ >:D  :deal:
+ 1
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: DeepBass9 on October 16, 2012, 06:57:20 am
I have always tried to figure out how thundering through the landscape on motorbikes has anything to do with ecology whatsoever?  ???
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 16, 2012, 06:59:43 am
How is this for a new money making scheme. We had to cancel our ECO trip this year due to my Stepdad being sick and passing away. We contacted Maluti Adventures a couple of weeks ago and informed them. They refunded our accommodation minus some fees, no problem. Our entries into the ECO were filled immediately. David de Bruyn from BMW Clubs informed us that they can not refund our entry fees due to the fact that they had to pay all the vendors already.

Now, my problem is, we paid, the people that took over our entry paid their money, but BMW will not refund our entry fee. Talk about being paid double for performing a single duty.

Contact Coetzee Zietsman, maybe he can help......not fair IMO....
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Sharingroads on October 16, 2012, 07:03:32 am
Gee my jou id en jou bike dan gaan ek namens jou. :pot:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 07:15:42 am
Minzi, if the organisers do not refund you, it is plain dishonesty. Your fill-in is covering the caterers, your money is now a freebie to them.

P.S. BMW "ECO" challenge. This from bikes that could'nt make ECC exhaust emissions anymore. :xxbah:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 16, 2012, 07:19:00 am
Ag fok tog :patch:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 07:31:01 am
Ag fok tog :patch:

Ek stem saam, sad dat hulle die mense so te na kom. Skelm.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: da PEEG on October 16, 2012, 07:37:59 am
Hi Minzi,

I'll speak to Coetzee when I get there.

Note: It's not BMW that organised this, it's the "BMW Clubs of South Africa".

I also disagree with the feedback you got - different thing if you cancelled at the last minute and they could not get anyone to fill your place...
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Pote on October 16, 2012, 07:43:10 am
Dalk het die "BMW Clubs of South Africa" nog geld nodig vir backup vehicles  ???
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Kuifie on October 16, 2012, 08:00:09 am
Van hoeveel geld praat ons hier ??????
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: poplap on October 16, 2012, 08:06:30 am
Van hoeveel geld praat ons hier ??????

Riaan dit is nie sakke vol geld nie R800.00 per entry (2 entries is betaal), maar die prinsiep van die saak is as daar 10 mense kanselleer agv watter rede ook al en daar IS 'n waglys vir mense wat wil gaan en die volgende 10 betaal ook hulle entries............ ja laat mens dink ne!  :o
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: The Badger on October 16, 2012, 08:09:19 am
I agree..............That is NOT right.

 It states on the website that you will be charged R100 admin fee only.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BMWPE on October 16, 2012, 08:17:36 am
BMW GS Eco, 18th to 21st October 2012, Clocolan, Free State.
INDEMNITY
1. Participation in the BMW GS Eco event and rides are undertaken on a voluntary basis and at own risk.
2. By registering for this event, you automatically accept the terms and conditions and agree that you are attending the event entirely at    your own risk.
3. You further indemnify the organisers and their agents against any damages or losses sustained by the person or any belongings.
4. You also hereby agree to abide by the rules and instructions of the organisers and their agents.


GENERAL
1. The registration fee for riders and pillions and non-riders are not refundable after 18 September 2012.
2. All cancellations & refunds will be charged a R100 admin fee.
3. Accommodation cancellations is subject to the specific accommodation provider´s terms & conditions.



2012 registration has officially closed.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Kuifie on October 16, 2012, 08:22:17 am
Van hoeveel geld praat ons hier ??????

Riaan dit is nie sakke vol geld nie R800.00 per entry (2 entries is betaal), maar die prinsiep van die saak is as daar 10 mense kanselleer agv watter rede ook al en daar IS 'n waglys vir mense wat wil gaan en die volgende 10 betaal ook hulle entries............ ja laat mens dink ne!  :o

Wil maar net weet hoeveel hulle terug gehou het vir fooie ensv. So as ek reg verstaan aan die boonste post is dit R100 per booking as jy kanseleer of is die R100 per ryer.

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Rafiki on October 16, 2012, 09:03:36 am
BMW GS Eco, 18th to 21st October 2012, Clocolan, Free State.
INDEMNITY
1. Participation in the BMW GS Eco event and rides are undertaken on a voluntary basis and at own risk.
2. By registering for this event, you automatically accept the terms and conditions and agree that you are attending the event entirely at    your own risk.
3. You further indemnify the organisers and their agents against any damages or losses sustained by the person or any belongings.
4. You also hereby agree to abide by the rules and instructions of the organisers and their agents.


GENERAL
1. The registration fee for riders and pillions and non-riders are not refundable after 18 September 2012.
2. All cancellations & refunds will be charged a R100 admin fee.
3. Accommodation cancellations is subject to the specific accommodation provider´s terms & conditions.



2012 registration has officially closed.


Met jul inskrywing was die terms & conditions sekerlik geonderteken?   :deal:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Snafu on October 16, 2012, 09:20:20 am
When did you cancel? After 18 September?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 16, 2012, 09:30:23 am
Did you accept the Terms and Conditions when you entered?
Edit: Yes you did
Quote
2. By registering for this event, you automatically accept the terms and conditions and agree that you are attending the event entirely at    your own risk.

Did you cancel before or after 18 September?

That is really all there is to it.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: lamo on October 16, 2012, 09:43:13 am
i was told if you cant make ,sorry for you and if you sell your ticket to a friend they will be turned away at the gate ,
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Red Rover on October 16, 2012, 11:13:38 am
If you book and T&C's says 18 Sept cut-off, surely it means exactly that...! Not sure how ripp-off and dishonesty features in that.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 16, 2012, 11:15:33 am
yip, all that money and cold mielies .... ::)

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 1ougat on October 16, 2012, 12:00:00 pm
As allways there is another side to the story  :peepwall:
Minzi 
Hope after the venting you now feel better  >:D

But i must say there is no ripoff just the rules  :deal:

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 16, 2012, 01:21:47 pm
Only getting chance now to reply, just got back from funeral. I do not care if they give me my money back or not. The ripoff part comes in by BMW Clubs that is charging another 2 people that took our places for the event after we paid for it. I hope the money burns a hole in their pockets. I have always supported the ECO, but I will not again.

Yes, 2 sides of the story. This is my side, do they have the balls to give me their side? Do I still get my shirt and all other things that we received last year?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 16, 2012, 02:25:58 pm
I just had a 'nice' discussion with David. I got told that no monies will be paid back. No new people will take our places as they have been overbooked and our food etc has been paid for. I accept that, I also accept that we have cancelled after 18 Sept. I also accept that it left a kak taste in my mouth and that I will not support the ECO ever again. i also accept that I am a complete fucknut for choosing between the ECO and the National Bash. From now on I will not miss the Nat Bash again. Rant over.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JourneyMan on October 16, 2012, 02:27:38 pm
i also accept that I am a complete fucknut for choosing between the ECO and the National Bash. From now on I will not miss the Nat Bash again. Rant over.

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Coetzee Zietsman on October 16, 2012, 05:37:08 pm
This whole threat just proves that no matter what you do and how you state it, people will find something to complain about. The long and short of it, is that there are terms and conditions and if you don't like them, then don't sign and don't pay your money.

The other side of the story, being closely involved with the organization of this event, is this. All the service providers have a cutoff date. Then they order stock, tents, booze etc etc. After that, whether more people come or some cancel, the money is spent. So it will make sense that there can be no refunds after the cutoff date. Try and get a refund from your airline after a cutoff date and see what happens.
 
The GS Eco is a great event organized by great people and supported by a great brand. You can be snotty all you want, it still remains the biggest gathering of its kind in the world. It has reached that status because systems are in place and rules are adhered to. Of course nobody wants to be short changed, but if  shit happens and you can't make the event and the rules you agreed to are not in your favor, you cannot shift blame to the organizers.
It is unfortunate and that is it. No harm intended and I am sure very little done.
Have a cold one, wash it down with Jagermeister and I am sure you will see the sense in all this.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: boere on October 16, 2012, 05:48:52 pm
i also accept that I am a complete fucknut for choosing between the ECO and the National Bash. From now on I will not miss the Nat Bash again. Rant over.

 :thumleft:
The bash was a JOL :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 06:01:39 pm
BMW clubs, Harley clubs, Riders of the wind club.......tropdiere.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 16, 2012, 06:01:59 pm
This whole threat just proves that no matter what you do and how you state it, people will find something to complain about. The long and short of it, is that there are terms and conditions and if you don't like them, then don't sign and don't pay your money.

The other side of the story, being closely involved with the organization of this event, is this. All the service providers have a cutoff date. Then they order stock, tents, booze etc etc. After that, whether more people come or some cancel, the money is spent. So it will make sense that there can be no refunds after the cutoff date. Try and get a refund from your airline after a cutoff date and see what happens.
 
The GS Eco is a great event organized by great people and supported by a great brand. You can be snotty all you want, it still remains the biggest gathering of its kind in the world. It has reached that status because systems are in place and rules are adhered to. Of course nobody wants to be short changed, but if  shit happens and you can't make the event and the rules you agreed to are not in your favor, you cannot shift blame to the organizers.
It is unfortunate and that is it. No harm intended and I am sure very little done.
Have a cold one, wash it down with Jagermeister and I am sure you will see the sense in all this.

No you have a completely different attitude after the message you sent me on Facebook. I see this case as closed from my side and my venting is done. Have a nice one.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Noneking on October 16, 2012, 06:02:27 pm
This whole threat just proves that no matter what you do and how you state it, people will find something to complain about. The long and short of it, is that there are terms and conditions and if you don't like them, then don't sign and don't pay your money.

The other side of the story, being closely involved with the organization of this event, is this. All the service providers have a cutoff date. Then they order stock, tents, booze etc etc. After that, whether more people come or some cancel, the money is spent. So it will make sense that there can be no refunds after the cutoff date. Try and get a refund from your airline after a cutoff date and see what happens.
 
The GS Eco is a great event organized by great people and supported by a great brand. You can be snotty all you want, it still remains the biggest gathering of its kind in the world. It has reached that status because systems are in place and rules are adhered to. Of course nobody wants to be short changed, but if  shit happens and you can't make the event and the rules you agreed to are not in your favor, you cannot shift blame to the organizers.
It is unfortunate and that is it. No harm intended and I am sure very little done.
Have a cold one, wash it down with Jagermeister and I am sure you will see the sense in all this.

 :thumleft: There you have it....the other side of the story.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 06:12:07 pm
We can understand that the entry is spent on logistics, but what prevents a refund ONCE THE FILL_IN PERSON  has paid ALSO? Minus a REASONABLE admin fee. Of course lekker to hang onto money you have not worked for.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Lear300 on October 16, 2012, 06:15:04 pm
This whole threat just proves that no matter what you do and how you state it, people will find something to complain about. The long and short of it, is that there are terms and conditions and if you don't like them, then don't sign and don't pay your money.

The other side of the story, being closely involved with the organization of this event, is this. All the service providers have a cutoff date. Then they order stock, tents, booze etc etc. After that, whether more people come or some cancel, the money is spent. So it will make sense that there can be no refunds after the cutoff date. Try and get a refund from your airline after a cutoff date and see what happens.
 
The GS Eco is a great event organized by great people and supported by a great brand. You can be snotty all you want, it still remains the biggest gathering of its kind in the world. It has reached that status because systems are in place and rules are adhered to. Of course nobody wants to be short changed, but if  shit happens and you can't make the event and the rules you agreed to are not in your favor, you cannot shift blame to the organizers.
It is unfortunate and that is it. No harm intended and I am sure very little done.
Have a cold one, wash it down with Jagermeister and I am sure you will see the sense in all this.

No you have a completely different attitude after the message you sent me on Facebook. I see this case as closed from my side and my venting is done. Have a nice one.  :thumleft:

Why argue on facebook? :pot:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Rynet on October 16, 2012, 06:22:19 pm
I also don't see the logic.  It is a popular event . Last year there were more people who wanted to go then could go. Minzi cancelled and they filled their places, so got their money. Now they have double money. And his dad was in a coma for all that time and sadly died just over that period.

They spent all that money on planting trees to make a good impression but then, but don't consider someone dying as a worthwhile cause to be humane  . BMW marketing fail.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Hagar on October 16, 2012, 06:35:20 pm
Thou shalt not complain about any form of institutionalised n**ing/ being ripped off on this forum.  The faithful will descent on you. " You accepted the Ts and Cc of the deal, and you should not come and "kak and kerm here"

Personally I see no wrong in you saying how you feel about it.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: punisher on October 16, 2012, 06:43:45 pm
hmmmmm  sorry  to hear this

i for one  NEVER enter into "gimme yer money before i give you anything"  schemes .......... or at least i try not to 
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JonW on October 16, 2012, 06:48:36 pm
I also don't see the logic.  It is a popular event . Last year there were more people who wanted to go then could go. Minzi cancelled and they filled their places, so got their money. Now they have double money. And his dad was in a coma for all that time and sadly died just over that period.

They spent all that money on planting trees to make a good impression but then, but don't consider someone dying as a worthwhile cause to be humane  . BMW marketing fail.

I too cannot see Coetzee Zietsman's logic here.

Give the man a refund, it is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: wayneh on October 16, 2012, 07:10:59 pm
Eeish... so many brands choose to take a (sometimes arrogant) stand over a short term gain or inflexible condition... just because of their current demand.
This usually results in costing the brand way more than doing the more considerate thing.

IMHO BMW... or the BMW Club... could have scored massive emotional cred' by simply refunding the poor guy his money.

Whether people view this as right or wrong, I'm sure the organiser's action & attitiude has just lost them some future business.  :deal:

Consumers vote with their heart, before their head.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 16, 2012, 07:27:56 pm
I really don't see the problem here....  :patch:
The event is not a profit-making event for BMW Clubs Africa.  David de Bruyn and his helpers are not paid for their time and effort.  They do it for the love of the brand and the goal of giving BMW riders a fun event to participate in and enjoy.
The accommodation arrangements are covered by a business enterprise

The entry Terms + Conditions were known in advance on registration.   :deal:
The cut-off date was known in advance and has passed.
No refund is due.

I entered within hours of the entries opening and paid my entry fee.  Due to a coccyx injury I have had to withdraw.
I am happy to forfeit my entry fee as the decision is mine and the T+C's were known to me.
(It is certainly not going to bankrupt me.)

Any surplus that may result after the event will go as a donation to the Clocolan community as stated in the event T+C
In addition to my original entry fee, I also made a small donation to that cause up front - as provided for in the T+C.   

I was looking forward to the event.
Sadly for me, I won't be there.
All who are going, enjoy it!  :thumleft:
See you next year...

unless it clashes with the Great Kei Gathering, in which case I won't see you!  ;D

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Gérrard on October 16, 2012, 07:52:06 pm
We're a small comunity and it does not take much to keep a customer happy. All event organisres should, and probably do, factor contingencies, such as cancellations and refunds, into their fee. That's just prudent.

In my experience not many people that cancell ask for refunds. Those who do, give it back to them and get them back next year, instead of giving them an excuse to rant, and then keep their friends away as well.

Simple business sense.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 16, 2012, 08:03:38 pm
I really don't see the problem here....  :patch:
The event is not a profit-making event for BMW Clubs Africa.  David de Bruyn and his helpers are not paid for their time and effort.  They do it for the love of the brand and the goal of giving BMW riders a fun event to participate in and enjoy.
The accommodation arrangements are covered by a business enterprise

The entry Terms + Conditions were known in advance on registration.   :deal:
The cut-off date was known in advance and has passed.
No refund is due.

I entered within hours of the entries opening and paid my entry fee.  Due to a coccyx injury I have had to withdraw.
I am happy to forfeit my entry fee as the decision is mine and the T+C's were known to me.
(It is certainly not going to bankrupt me.)

Any surplus that may result after the event will go as a donation to the Clocolan community as stated in the event T+C
In addition to my original entry fee, I also made a small donation to that cause up front - as provided for in the T+C.   

I was looking forward to the event.
Sadly for me, I won't be there.
All who are going, enjoy it!  :thumleft:
See you next year...

unless it clashes with the Great Kei Gathering, in which case I won't see you!  ;D


+ 100000000. :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: shark_za on October 16, 2012, 08:07:42 pm
How can they change the rules about taking late bookings and not about refunds?
If they actually got someone to take your place they are pond scum.

But you indicate they did not take more entries and its all legit?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Kuifie on October 16, 2012, 08:31:07 pm
Ok wat ek verstaan is die volgende. As jy nie n bike het nie , is dit kak. As jy n bmw het , het jy meer kak.

As jy triump ry , daar doen ons net n "high tea" nou en dan.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 16, 2012, 08:47:08 pm
How can they change the rules about taking late bookings and not about refunds?
If they actually got someone to take your place they are pond scum.

But you indicate they did not take more entries and its all legit?


You are right about what you say. They overbooked by 40 people and have taken their money. Now, they are down to 26 overbooked entries which Rob Holder are still not happy about. So, they are not really ECO friendly end of the day. Different rules for different people. After the registration closed last year and this year, they still accepted entries and payment for 'friends' and connections coming form Europe. They fucked up and are trying to get the numbers down by taking money and not delivering. I think Dave registered here as Red Rover and made a reply to save some face. I just hope that they at least plant 2 trees on our behalve for what we have paid so far. The R800 per person that they loose on food is bullshit. There were a bakkie load of food left over after every meal last year. They would not have missed the plastic eggs and raw meat in any case.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 09:13:07 pm
I really don't see the problem here....  :patch:
The event is not a profit-making event for BMW Clubs Africa.  David de Bruyn and his helpers are not paid for their time and effort.  They do it for the love of the brand and the goal of giving BMW riders a fun event to participate in and enjoy.
The accommodation arrangements are covered by a business enterprise

The entry Terms + Conditions were known in advance on registration.   :deal:
The cut-off date was known in advance and has passed.
No refund is due.

I entered within hours of the entries opening and paid my entry fee.  Due to a coccyx injury I have had to withdraw.
I am happy to forfeit my entry fee as the decision is mine and the T+C's were known to me.
(It is certainly not going to bankrupt me.)

Any surplus that may result after the event will go as a donation to the Clocolan community as stated in the event T+C
In addition to my original entry fee, I also made a small donation to that cause up front - as provided for in the T+C.   

I was looking forward to the event.
Sadly for me, I won't be there.
All who are going, enjoy it!  :thumleft:
See you next year...

unless it clashes with the Great Kei Gathering, in which case I won't see you!  ;D



"Any surplus will go to the Clocolan community" But BMW club claimed a huge loss on food for last year's event, so what surplus? Is this "double-charging" to create a "surplus?"
I smell a rat.
Also Zietsman's attitude of "some shit that came up", while this client's Dad was seriously ill????
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BennNevis on October 16, 2012, 09:29:20 pm
Daantjie gaat le jou eiers oor iets anders man, los die mense uit. Jy kom voor soos n kaart mannetjie wat op en af spring ek kak stook net waar jy kan
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 09:32:47 pm
BensePenis, vertel ons gou wat jou opinie is oor hierdie aangeleentheid. [BMW verleentheid]
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 16, 2012, 09:46:43 pm
Genade ou Daan wat het die storie in elk geval met jou te doen?
Fok wees eerder bly miskien koop iemand nou n Yammi dan kan al twaalf sommer hulle eie ou bymekaarkoms reel.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: SGB on October 16, 2012, 09:49:58 pm
There are 2 sides yes.  Customer is unhappy because the event applies the T&C's.  Organizers have to make ends meet, if you have ever been in control of the finances of a function of this nature will understand.  If you have not, you will have complaints.   There is a cut-off date.  That is when the event has to commit to the suppliers of goods and services.  In bulk.  If you are not there to eat the food you paid for, someone in the township will get fed the next morning.  It is that simple.  Once you have paid the fee, and 18 Sept is gone, there is no refund.  Everyone knows that.

Now the plastic eggs from last year and the raw meat is also part of the pot you are stirring.  I can also understand that you are emotional after all you have been through.  Let us live and let live.  David is accountable to his client for applying the rules.  He really has no choice.

Coetzee is just a reasonable cameraman from Clocolan who has been tasked by David to check that there is fuel and water and routes and guards at the gate and that it does not rain this weekend.  Not much he can do about BMW's rules either.  Rest assured, the event will be over subscribed again next year, and the only one who suffers in the process is you.  It is about choice.

Hope you see the light again soon!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 16, 2012, 09:52:53 pm
yip, all that money and cold mielies .... ::)



And THAT is why I'm not going...... :peepwall: :biggrin:

And the fact that press were invited, but we had to supply our own bikes...... :pot:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 16, 2012, 09:54:51 pm
There are 2 sides yes.  Customer is unhappy because the event applies the T&C's.  Organizers have to make ends meet, if you have ever been in control of the finances of a function of this nature will understand.  If you have not, you will have complaints.   There is a cut-off date.  That is when the event has to commit to the suppliers of goods and services.  In bulk.  If you are not there to eat the food you paid for, someone in the township will get fed the next morning.  It is that simple.  Once you have paid the fee, and 18 Sept is gone, there is no refund.  Everyone knows that.

Now the plastic eggs from last year and the raw meat is also part of the pot you are stirring.  I can also understand that you are emotional after all you have been through.  Let us live and let live.  David is accountable to his client for applying the rules.  He really has no choice.

Coetzee is just a reasonable cameraman from Clocolan who has been tasked by David to check that there is fuel and water and routes and guards at the gate and that it does not rain this weekend.  Not much he can do about BMW's rules either.  Rest assured, the event will be over subscribed again next year, and the only one who suffers in the process is you.  It is about choice.

Hope you see the light again soon!
:thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 10:01:48 pm
Genade ou Daan wat het die storie in elk geval met jou te doen?
Fok wees eerder bly miskien koop iemand nou n Yammi dan kan al twaalf sommer hulle eie ou bymekaarkoms reel.

Kyk, as dit die Yamaha ECO challenge was, sou ek dinge natuurlik in n heel ander lig gesien het :pot:
.
.
.
.
.
Want Yamaha sal nie n mens so beroof nie. :ricky:

Een van my huurwoonstelle is aan die begin van die jaar aan n student verhuur. Sy wou koshuis toe, maar kon nie plek kry nie. Teken toe ons redelike waterdigte 1 jaar kontrak, vanaf Feb tot einde Nov, en einde Aug kan sy skielik plek kry, maar sy moet vinnig besluit, land waglys. Sy vra toe om uit die kontrak verskoon te word, en sy besef dat ek moeilik iemand gaan kry die tyd van die jaar. Ons het haar verskoon, want om in die geval by die letter van die kontrak te bly sal n swak styl openbaar. Ten minste het BMW club reeds n ten volle opbetaalde intekenaar gekry, waarom die 1ste ou se geld hou?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 16, 2012, 10:05:57 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Kelevra on October 16, 2012, 10:08:22 pm
Shoe R800, amper soveel soos n RAD tyre fix :pot: eet jou kaas en jou polony
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Snafu on October 16, 2012, 10:30:07 pm
Oh FFS, read the terms, easy. Your loss is someone else's gain, even in our economy!

To chose between the ECO and a Bash and you decide on the ECO? There is something wrong with that to start with! :)

Oh, and Punisher, you will also be required to pay upfront for the Bash, does this mean we will never see you?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: SGB on October 16, 2012, 10:32:36 pm
Ten minste het BMW club reeds n ten volle opbetaalde intekenaar gekry

Het hulle?

No new people will take our places as they have been overbooked and our food etc has been paid for.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 16, 2012, 11:11:36 pm
How is this for a new money making scheme. We had to cancel our ECO trip this year due to my Stepdad being sick and passing away. We contacted Maluti Adventures a couple of weeks ago and informed them. They refunded our accommodation minus some fees, no problem. Our entries into the ECO were filled immediately. David de Bruyn from BMW Clubs informed us that they can not refund our entry fees due to the fact that they had to pay all the vendors already.

Now, my problem is, we paid, the people that took over our entry paid their money, but BMW will not refund our entry fee. Talk about being paid double for performing a single duty.

What the man said.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on October 16, 2012, 11:19:02 pm
Shoe R800, amper soveel soos n RAD tyre fix :pot: eet jou kaas en jou polony

 :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: immigrant on October 17, 2012, 04:00:45 am
As with the RAD tube incident, the dealer /organizer fails to see the big picture. Ai tog!!! There are good business principles, and then there is exploitation. People that exploit others are KAK. But fortunately, next time, you can spend our money where you want.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: White Rhino on October 17, 2012, 05:25:31 am
Once you allow exceptions to become the rule, things get out of hand and rules go out the window.

A thought, maybe BMW should consider allowing transfer of entries to occur between entrants up to a specific date (and forfeit T-shirt sizes if too late to change) ....

The moneys could be exchanged between entrants and maybe a admin fee for changing names etc.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RassieGS on October 17, 2012, 05:44:31 am
Jammer dat een persoon sover ongelukkig is met een faset van die Challenge. Ky ek ry nou nou soontoe om my te gaan geniet dis immers die enigste verlof hierdie jaar vir my. Daan en die res sit voor die gat en huil ons sal fotos post ok
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 1ougat on October 17, 2012, 05:53:32 am
Yes - getting ready to go and looking forward to it... as I did last year and will next year !!!!

And 800 buks is still cheap for what we are getting - no ripoff
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 17, 2012, 07:02:01 am
I really do feel sad for the people who lost their relative (I'm sure the organising committee feels the same.)
I'm sure that they believe their case is special, but it remained their decision to withdraw from the event or not.
The organisers had nothing to do with it. 
Life goes on after a family loss and the ECO organisers are just trying to make a success - not a profit.

Perhaps some of the critics should offer their services to the committee organising the next ECO - free of charge, of course, for the next year.  They can show us all how to organise an event for 600 people including all meals, entertainment, routes and include refunds of prople who withdraw after the final closing date.  If it runs into a loss, they can sommer fork out of their own pockets too.

2SD, how about you organising a similar event for your Yammie buddies so that I can piss on your arrangements for an event that I wont be attending anyway...?  Maybe I'll sommer borrow a Yammie myself just to enter and come spoil your day - every day of the event by bitching about cheap plastic coffee, the lack of Earl Grey tea... whatever.

Don't knock anyone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.
I've been involved in organising such events in the past.
I've walked a few yards in their shoes myself.


Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 17, 2012, 07:08:22 am
4 pages about a measly 800 bucks and a clear rule about no refunds...

wow
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 17, 2012, 07:19:50 am
I just had a 'nice' discussion with David. I got told that no monies will be paid back. No new people will take our places as they have been overbooked and our food etc has been paid for. I accept that, I also accept that we have cancelled after 18 Sept. I also accept that it left a kak taste in my mouth and that I will not support the ECO ever again. i also accept that I am a complete fucknut for choosing between the ECO and the National Bash. From now on I will not miss the Nat Bash again. Rant over.

The reality is that we also dont refund people for canceling. You can however arrange with someone to pay to go on your behalf - no skin off our back.  The reality is that in a few cases people cancel for valid reasons, but in most cases not. This fucks with budgets and organising.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 17, 2012, 07:30:29 am
I really do feel sad for the people who lost their relative (I'm sure the organising committee feels the same.)
I'm sure that they believe their case is special, but it remained their decision to withdraw from the event or not.
The organisers had nothing to do with it. 
Life goes on after a family loss and the ECO organisers are just trying to make a success - not a profit.

Perhaps some of the critics should offer their services to the committee organising the next ECO - free of charge, of course, for the next year.  They can show us all how to organise an event for 600 people including all meals, entertainment, routes and include refunds of prople who withdraw after the final closing date.  If it runs into a loss, they can sommer fork out of their own pockets too.

2SD, how about you organising a similar event for your Yammie buddies so that I can piss on your arrangements for an event that I wont be attending anyway...?  Maybe I'll sommer borrow a Yammie myself just to enter and come spoil your day - every day of the event by bitching about cheap plastic coffee, the lack of Earl Grey tea... whatever.

Don't knock anyone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.
I've been involved in organising such events in the past.
I've walked a few yards in their shoes myself.




It just so happens that my Yammie club is leaving very early on Friday morning up the Westcoast to Hondeklipbaai, Saturday to Pella including Road to Hell, and Sunday Pella back to Stellenbosch. On this ride, Fudmucker, I am sure you will spoil our ride, even if you borrow a Yamaha.
If Minzi cancelled, and BMW club was unable to fill his place, then by no means can anyone expect the club to refund him anything, but they were overbooked??
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 17, 2012, 07:34:17 am
Dan, only tar i suppose? >:D those S10s and 660's are not reliable on serious terra? :biggrin:  god forbid it falls on its side - trip over...
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Gingerball on October 17, 2012, 07:37:40 am
Sad that the original's poster had sickness, never nice and our thoughts are with him.

We had similar problems when organizing our Barberton Paragliding Open. There is a cut off date and a point where after refunds are not allowed. However, we did refund a lady who provided a medical certificate after she broke her hip - our committee made a ruling and she was refunded, at our cost. Rules are rules and if you sign and accept them, then you don't have much to complain about.

That being said, the rules should be fair and also evenly applied. It can also be adjusted so as to allow certain exceptions - life is life and problems do come up. If I were on the ECO committee I would not have had a problem refunding the guy, minus a admin fee and only if his place was taken and paid for by a replacement. But, I am not on the ECO committee and I did not sign the T&C's beforehand.

To be fair: why was the problem or issue with the non-refunding after 18 September only raised afterwards? Why not before signing the T&C's? Why do we sign stuff we don't agree with?

M2CW
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Sharingroads on October 17, 2012, 07:50:08 am
In short the rules can say no refund, but surely humanity could be considered as well.
Surely in the past there was people in any event that did not want to partake, and used sickness or death as a way out, being part of the lies conmen use in this world of ours, but if they (orginisers) had any sense of humanity they could have asked for prove ie letter from hospital, and refund but keep a admin fee.
Surely if the event is as great as the past participates say, then there must be a waiting list for more entries, and they would not have had to make any changes except names of new participants.

Yes a lot of work and effort goes into arranging these events, but a plan can always be made.

Maybe if some of the orginisers were on WD, then they would realise that most people here are honest, and will not back out of a deal unnessesary, or without properly excusing themselves.

You can buy a car for 500k and back out of the deal without it costing you money. Why not something like this.
And yes I have been "bitten" before with the same kind of issue (not motorcycle related) and it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, and influance your feelings of trust towards others, which is why I try and stick to the Dawgs for advice, and support dogs where I can as I "trust" the people on the forum.


But that is just my 2c, and maybe I am missing something, but I back Minzi on this one.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RassieGS on October 17, 2012, 08:08:46 am
EK RY NOU!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Manic on October 17, 2012, 08:34:40 am
4 pages about a measly 800 bucks and a clear rule about no refunds...

wow

For him and his wife, so that is now R1600. Nothing to piss on.

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Red Rover on October 17, 2012, 09:03:14 am
And then now poor Coetzee is also a culprit.

Thank you Coetzee for doing so such a great job for the BMW riders even if you are a Yammy rider!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 17, 2012, 09:05:35 am
Name:   Red Rover
Posts:   2 (N/A per day)
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   Yesterday at 10:26:59 AM
Last Active:   Today at 09:03:14 AM

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :patch:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ajax on October 17, 2012, 09:33:52 am
Skerp J-dog   :laughing4: :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ButchH on October 17, 2012, 10:26:28 am
I really do feel sad for the people who lost their relative (I'm sure the organising committee feels the same.)
I'm sure that they believe their case is special, but it remained their decision to withdraw from the event or not.
The organisers had nothing to do with it. 
Life goes on after a family loss and the ECO organisers are just trying to make a success - not a profit.

Perhaps some of the critics should offer their services to the committee organising the next ECO - free of charge, of course, for the next year.  They can show us all how to organise an event for 600 people including all meals, entertainment, routes and include refunds of prople who withdraw after the final closing date.  If it runs into a loss, they can sommer fork out of their own pockets too.

2SD, how about you organising a similar event for your Yammie buddies so that I can piss on your arrangements for an event that I wont be attending anyway...?  Maybe I'll sommer borrow a Yammie myself just to enter and come spoil your day - every day of the event by bitching about cheap plastic coffee, the lack of Earl Grey tea... whatever.

Don't knock anyone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.
I've been involved in organising such events in the past.
I've walked a few yards in their shoes myself.




It just so happens that my Yammie club is leaving very early on Friday morning up the Westcoast to Hondeklipbaai, Saturday to Pella including Road to Hell, and Sunday Pella back to Stellenbosch. On this ride, Fudmucker, I am sure you will spoil our ride, even if you borrow a Yamaha.
If Minzi cancelled, and BMW club was unable to fill his place, then by no means can anyone expect the club to refund him anything, but they were overbooked??

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 17, 2012, 01:08:37 pm
Name:   Red Rover
Posts:   2 (N/A per day)
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   Yesterday at 10:26:59 AM
Last Active:   Today at 09:03:14 AM

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :patch:
              Red Rover, I believe, is David de Bruyn fom BMW Clubs and he made the decision not to refund.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ClemS on October 17, 2012, 01:29:13 pm
I also don't see the logic.  It is a popular event . Last year there were more people who wanted to go then could go. Minzi cancelled and they filled their places, so got their money. Now they have double money. And his dad was in a coma for all that time and sadly died just over that period.

They spent all that money on planting trees to make a good impression but then, but don't consider someone dying as a worthwhile cause to be humane  . BMW marketing fail.

 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Snafu on October 17, 2012, 01:33:57 pm
Name:   Red Rover
Posts:   2 (N/A per day)
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   Yesterday at 10:26:59 AM
Last Active:   Today at 09:03:14 AM

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :patch:
              Red Rover, I believe, is David de Bruyn fom BMW Clubs and he made the decision not to refund.

No, you are wrong, the terms and conditions did!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ClemS on October 17, 2012, 01:39:32 pm
I feel strongly about this aspect. Criteria needs to be there otherwise it will cause havoc if everyone can just cancel as and when required. However, I do believe in the event of death, special dispensation can be applied! :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 17, 2012, 01:48:56 pm
Name:   Red Rover
Posts:   2 (N/A per day)
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   Yesterday at 10:26:59 AM
Last Active:   Today at 09:03:14 AM

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :patch:
              Red Rover, I believe, is David de Bruyn fom BMW Clubs and he made the decision not to refund.

No, you are wrong, the terms and conditions did!
          I wish we could all hide behind terms and conditions. People make and enforce the terms and conditions, so people can make exeptions. I do, everyday of my life to help and accomodate clients. So, sadly, you are wrong.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Buddy on October 17, 2012, 02:42:32 pm
It's easy to hide behind T&C's

In the event of a family berevement and the places being filled, the right thing to do would be a refund

It's far better PR and shows heart.

 :sip:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BennNevis on October 17, 2012, 07:11:16 pm
Harsh call to apply the T&C in this particular case. Discretion could have been applied. 
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 17, 2012, 09:11:55 pm
Red Rover, come in, come in Red Rover. Roger out.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 17, 2012, 09:15:47 pm
Harsh call to apply the T&C in this particular case. Discretion could have been applied. 

When you apply a discretion you create a precedent and then everyone becomes a 'particular case'.
So who decides what is a worthy situation?
A spouse? A child? A blood relative? A pet?

Discretion is a slippery slope - particularly when you are confronted by a person who did NOT benefit from the exercise of that discretion. "You allowed him... why not me?"
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 17, 2012, 09:19:24 pm
 Fudmucker, your reply is not even worthy to comment on. 2SD,  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 17, 2012, 09:26:27 pm
Harsh call to apply the T&C in this particular case. Discretion could have been applied. 

When you apply a discretion you create a precedent and then everyone becomes a 'particular case'.
So who decides what is a worthy situation?
A spouse? A child? A blood relative? A pet?

Discretion is a slippery slope - particularly when you are confronted by a person who did NOT benefit from the exercise of that discretion. "You allowed him... why not me?"

Most areas on a BMW is a slippery slope.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: laurika on October 17, 2012, 10:45:55 pm
I dislocated my elbow a month before the XT challenge - they gave me a full refund - I did not even have to ask.....THAT is how you promote your Brand!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: White Rhino on October 18, 2012, 05:14:24 am
I dislocated my elbow a month before the XT challenge - they gave me a full refund - I did not even have to ask.....THAT is how you promote your Brand!
With helmet hair like that, who wouldn't :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 18, 2012, 06:10:16 am
Fudmucker, your reply is not even worthy to comment on. 2SD,  :thumleft:

So why did you, Minzi? It is a delicate subject and best debated when emotions are not present.

2SD, your prejudice taints your logic, my friend.
Go enjoy your ride this weekend - clearly you are missing something in your life to make you smile.  :P

The point I was making is that a bereavement is a tragedy to the bereaved, not the event organisers.
While they may be empathetic, they do not make the decision to withdraw - the bereaved person withdraws.
The logistical implications of the withdrawal then become the organisers' problem.

If you don't attend the Currie Cup Final because of a bereavement you won't get a refund either, yet nobody is bitching about that?

(Being a bearer ticket, you can send a replacement, of course, but that is another subject entirely.)






Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 18, 2012, 06:33:13 am
I dislocated my elbow a month before the XT challenge - they gave me a full refund - I did not even have to ask.....THAT is how you promote your Brand!

Sorry to hear of the injury.  Was the beer glass too heavy or was it too many of them?
Are you ok again?

Re the XT challenge - for perspective - how big was the event, what were the T+C's  :deal: and the cut-off date for cancellations?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JonW on October 18, 2012, 07:03:18 am
Fudmucker, your reply is not even worthy to comment on. 2SD,  :thumleft:

So why did you, Minzi? It is a delicate subject and best debated when emotions are not present.

2SD, your prejudice taints your logic, my friend.
Go enjoy your ride this weekend - clearly you are missing something in your life to make you smile.  :P

The point I was making is that a bereavement is a tragedy to the bereaved, not the event organisers.
While they may be empathetic, they do not make the decision to withdraw - the bereaved person withdraws.
The logistical implications of the withdrawal then become the organisers' problem.

If you don't attend the Currie Cup Final because of a bereavement you won't get a refund either, yet nobody is bitching about that?

(Being a bearer ticket, you can send a replacement, of course, but that is another subject entirely.)


Ha ha, nice little edit there when you realized you had just shot holes through your argument  :laughing4:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 18, 2012, 07:10:41 am
Fudmucker, your reply is not even worthy to comment on. 2SD,  :thumleft:

So why did you, Minzi? It is a delicate subject and best debated when emotions are not present.

2SD, your prejudice taints your logic, my friend.
Go enjoy your ride this weekend - clearly you are missing something in your life to make you smile.  :P

The point I was making is that a bereavement is a tragedy to the bereaved, not the event organisers.
While they may be empathetic, they do not make the decision to withdraw - the bereaved person withdraws.
The logistical implications of the withdrawal then become the organisers' problem.

If you don't attend the Currie Cup Final because of a bereavement you won't get a refund either, yet nobody is bitching about that?

(Being a bearer ticket, you can send a replacement, of course, but that is another subject entirely.)








No prejudice here Fudmucker, just see Laurika's post on the XT challenge refund, and learn. It is as simple as assessing the individual situation and acting humanely. I have never said that anybody should be refunded, but I think that death of a close relative should be strong enough reason. The size of the gathering has what bearance on this decision?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Philemon on October 18, 2012, 07:20:00 am
Thanks for the lesson in PR chaps.

This is certainly one for the text books.

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Kuifie on October 18, 2012, 07:57:24 am
I dislocated my elbow a month before the XT challenge - they gave me a full refund - I did not even have to ask.....THAT is how you promote your Brand!
With helmet hair like that, who wouldn't :imaposer:

 :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: laurika on October 18, 2012, 07:58:08 am
I dislocated my elbow a month before the XT challenge - they gave me a full refund - I did not even have to ask.....THAT is how you promote your Brand!

Sorry to hear of the injury.  Was the beer glass too heavy or was it too many of them?
Are you ok again?

Re the XT challenge - for perspective - how big was the event, what were the T+C's  :deal: and the cut-off date for cancellations?
it was last year Sept Fuddy, and yes, they had T&C in place also. The event is the equivalent of the eco challenge I think. I was amazed about their attitude and at the speed all was refunded (the arm cost me R50 000 in cash, so the refund was welcome) They have assured my goodwill and repeat bussiness. Was nice to be surprised for a change.....
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 18, 2012, 08:13:30 am
I dislocated my elbow a month before the XT challenge - they gave me a full refund - I did not even have to ask.....THAT is how you promote your Brand!

Sorry to hear of the injury.  Was the beer glass too heavy or was it too many of them?
Are you ok again?

Re the XT challenge - for perspective - how big was the event, what were the T+C's  :deal: and the cut-off date for cancellations?

About 60 people attended, small enough event to make it enjoyable, and Yamaha know how to look after their customers......I've done all the brand DS events over the years, if I was only allowed to do one it would be the Yamaha event.....(even had warm mielies...... :biggrin:)
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ajax on October 18, 2012, 08:16:45 am
Please Laurika don`t insult Fudmucker it can`t be equivalent to the eco  the bmw eco eco eco  :imaposer:  
Goed vir Yamaha om jou te refund  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: laurika on October 18, 2012, 08:50:10 am
Its a tricky thing...client relationships and T&C's.....BMW was my client in my agency days...even the pebbles below the sign at the dealerships had to be bmw issue.....sometimes this tight control made them less fun as clients. They have full right to refuse to refund. We can dislike that about them .....
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Rynet on October 18, 2012, 09:59:43 am
Fudmucker, your reply is not even worthy to comment on. 2SD,  :thumleft:

So why did you, Minzi? It is a delicate subject and best debated when emotions are not present.

2SD, your prejudice taints your logic, my friend.
Go enjoy your ride this weekend - clearly you are missing something in your life to make you smile.  :P

The point I was making is that a bereavement is a tragedy to the bereaved, not the event organisers.
While they may be empathetic, they do not make the decision to withdraw - the bereaved person withdraws.
The logistical implications of the withdrawal then become the organisers' problem.

If you don't attend the Currie Cup Final because of a bereavement you won't get a refund either, yet nobody is bitching about that?

(Being a bearer ticket, you can send a replacement, of course, but that is another subject entirely.)


Ha ha, nice little edit there when you realized you had just shot holes through your argument  :laughing4:

I agree with Jon W ,Fuddy you shot yourself in the foot there.  :mwink: Even in a rugby game , if you cannot go someone who hasn't sadly lost their their dad after he was in a coma for 2 weeks , can go in your place. And rugby isn't even like a DS bike event , lots of people go to rugby ( not sure why ?   :pot: ), but as Jupiter said so aptly , our DS events are relatively small events and we are a community who all know each other , so much more important to apply discretion for goodwill purposes.

And not fair to call Minzi emotional , I thought he has been admirably rational and dignified in his posts , despite going through what must be a very traumatic (and expensive) time.

Fact is he canceled 3 weeks before the event and they told him they had others to take his place ( they in fact overbooked) .

It is not too late for Red Rover to still make this a BMW marketing win.   :peepwall:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ajax on October 18, 2012, 10:06:11 am
Well said Rynet.   Ek dink Fuddy behoort nou te luister.... En BMW ook :deal:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 18, 2012, 11:55:09 am
We have a similar situation at the guest house. Our cancellation policy is no refund of the 50% deposit 48 hours prior to arrival. However, it's hard to enforce, because keeping the money will piss off the guest, and he/she will tell 7 other people about how unreasonable we were.

that despite that fact that they lost us money by blocking the room.

Most of the time, I give the full refund.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JonW on October 18, 2012, 12:02:47 pm
We have a similar situation at the guest house. Our cancellation policy is no refund of the 50% deposit 48 hours prior to arrival. However, it's hard to enforce, because keeping the money will piss off the guest, and he/she will tell 7 other people about how unreasonable we were.

that despite that fact that they lost us money by blocking the room.

Most of the time, I give the full refund.

But if someone cancels their booking, but says their mate will take the booking over from them and pay the full price, plus they will pay a cancellation fee for the inconvenience caused, I am sure you would find that acceptable?

BMW club says f@ck you, no refund, no-one allowed to take over your booking, look at our T&C's, rules is rules.

Great PR BMW
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 18, 2012, 12:04:34 pm
We have a similar situation at the guest house. Our cancellation policy is no refund of the 50% deposit 48 hours prior to arrival. However, it's hard to enforce, because keeping the money will piss off the guest, and he/she will tell 7 other people about how unreasonable we were.

that despite that fact that they lost us money by blocking the room.

Most of the time, I give the full refund.

But if someone cancels their booking, but says their mate will take the booking over from them and pay the full price, plus they will pay a cancellation fee for the inconvenience caused, I am sure you would find that acceptable?

BMW club says f@ck you, no refund, no-one allowed to take over your booking, look at our T&C's, rules is rules.

Great PR BMW

of course
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Buddy on October 18, 2012, 12:06:43 pm
The sheer "ruulz is ruulz" inflexability that BMW is showing leaves a bad taste. This is a small intimate gathering not a Curry Cup Final, plus it was oversubscribed. Shame.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: shark_za on October 18, 2012, 12:07:59 pm

Most areas on a BMW is a slippery slope.

A slippery slope on a BMW could kill you. So I have seen.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 18, 2012, 12:11:54 pm
Even though I believe that the organizers are within their rights adhering to the T's and C's, in this specific case if it was my call I would have refunded MINZI and moved on.

Yes rules are rules, but sometimes the exception is just the right thing to do.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Rynet on October 18, 2012, 12:15:43 pm

Most areas on a BMW is a slippery slope.

A slippery slope on a BMW could kill you. So I have seen.

So can slipping on a banana peel .
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Operator on October 18, 2012, 12:15:52 pm
If the organizers would've lost money due to the cancellation...............fine then do the T & C's

BUT

If they had a replacement and can only take in a specific number of people..........charge an admin fee, but
give the guy a refund.

Fuck the T & C's.............the refund is the right thing to do. :3some:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Gérrard on October 18, 2012, 12:24:21 pm
If the organizers would've lost money due to the cancellation...............fine then do the T & C's

BUT

If they had a replacement and can only take in a specific number of people..........charge an admin fee, but
give the guy a refund.

Fuck the T & C's.............the refund is the right thing to do. :3some:

Goodwill and client management  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Kuifie on October 18, 2012, 12:40:25 pm
Die event is in sy moerse groei stadium, oor tyd sal hulle hulself ophang...............

In enige besigheid moet jy die customer happy hou , al moet jy die reëls bietjie buig want dit gee jou op die einde baie meer goeie advertensie as sleg............................maar op die stadium rol die dollars nog
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 18, 2012, 04:42:21 pm
I agree with Jon W ,Fuddy you shot yourself in the foot there.  :mwink: Even in a rugby game , if you cannot go someone who hasn't sadly lost their their dad after he was in a coma for 2 weeks , can go in your place. And rugby isn't even like a DS bike event , lots of people go to rugby ( not sure why ?   :pot: ), but as Jupiter said so aptly , our DS events are relatively small events and we are a community who all know each other , so much more important to apply discretion for goodwill purposes.

And not fair to call Minzi emotional , I thought he has been admirably rational and dignified in his posts , despite going through what must be a very traumatic (and expensive) time.
Fact is he canceled 3 weeks before the event and they told him they had others to take his place ( they in fact overbooked) .
It is not too late for Red Rover to still make this a BMW marketing win.   :peepwall:

Redirect, Your Honour?  Thank you.

Really, Rynet... an attorney taking heresay into evidence...?  Tsk-Tsk!

Unlike what JonW would have you all think, my edit was the following:
1. The quote incorrectly attributed to 2SD not Minzi - duly corrected.
2. The Currie Cup Final line was made bold - for accent.

JonW, the side issue of bearer tickets was in from the start, my friend...! :P


Now, I never called Minzi "emotional" - refer to the post text, if you would please, my learned friend.  :deal:
I said the issue of refund or not in the event of a bereavement should be discussed and debated when one is not directly involved and emotional about it - i.e. not the bereaved person.  That is what I'm trying to do here. 

Different people deal with bereavement in different ways. 
Some people choose to withdraw and go into isolation.
Some people totally change their lives, take on extra work or engage in extra activities to distract them from their grief.
Others will have a party to celebrate the life of their loved one and the good times they had together.
I also know people who have mourned the death of a pet greater than the death of their relatives.
I'm not being callous at all - purely objective and unemotional. 
It seems others can't engage with the issue on that basis at all.

Some people have judged the organisers negatively for opinions that I expressed.
That is grossly unfair. 
Argue with me by all means for what I say.
I do not speak on behalf of the Organisers or BMW.
I have no idea who Red Rover is either - perhaps he's even an agent provocateur stirring up trouble?

I asked for contextual information from Laurika.
(Thank you, Adventurer for the information.)
Ajax tried to put words I did not say into my mouth.

Thank goodness Laurika  can read for herself and she knows me better...
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: laurika on October 18, 2012, 06:16:40 pm
I do know u better Fuddie!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 18, 2012, 07:11:55 pm
Thanx  ;)
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 18, 2012, 07:46:30 pm
To get back to me being pissed off with the organisers of the ECO. I do not expect special treatment from them due to the reason why I chose to cancel our bookings. The email response that I have received from David de Bruyn this week, stated short and sweet and in a typical 'one line response', that we will not receive a refund. I tried to contact him on 28 September after I spoke to Sonja at Maluti Adventures. She informed me that there were people on a waiting list and that our bookings will be filled without any problems and that we will receive our refunds ( accommodation and entry fees ) minus the admin charges. David has been out of the country at the time and I left a voicemessage for him and Coetzee Zietsman on the day. Neither of them came back to me.

The ECO only allows 600 entries due to the carbon footprint that is being left behind after the weekend. They plant 600 trees to try and offset this carbon footprint. 640 paid and confirmed bookings were made. We all had to scramble and pay the entry fees within a couple off days after the booking has been accepted. BMW Clubs has wrongfully accepted another 40 entries and money after the deadline of 600 entries were reached. Last year, the PTA BMW Club accepted more bookings on their forum from friends of theirs. They made an exception for them and openly stated that they will "bend" the rules to accommodate these people.

The right way to have handled the bookings would have been to only accepted the first 600 paid entries. People can then be placed on a waiting list and in the event of someone having to cancel, the person on the waiting list would then pay for their entry. An admin charge would then be deducted from the person that canceled and the balance paid back.

The dealings of the organisers of the ECO in this regard is money driven and they have forgotten why it is called the ECO Challenge. This is the reason why I called it a ripoff. It is not about me not receiving a refund, it is not about why I cancelled and R1600 is not going to make me any poorer than what I am at the moment. The bad taste left in my mouth is because of the way that they have handled it. We can not all hide behind Terms and Conditions. People that only think about their own wellbeing and that are not wise enough to look at the bigger picture. BMW is a big brand. It does not concern them if they have upset one or maybe 100 of their loyal clients, because there will always be more new clients that they can impress and that will support their brand.

These are harsh words and sadly also true facts. I, for one, will not support them anymore due to this incident. I own my third BMW motorcycle and will maybe buy another one someday. When I sold my R1200GSA in January of this year, I wanted to replace it with a KTM. The only reason why I bought the F800GS, were because my wife (Poplap) has a BMW and because I wanted to keep on attending the ECO challenges for another couple of years.

I did not want the Dogs to start fighting with each other due to this thread. This forum are also used for sharing good and bad experiences and for ranting and moaning. This is a social media where we all have one thing in common, DS bikes. There is always competition between the brands. If you do not like what I have stated in this thread, then do not reply to the thread. Easy as that, look away and move on. Do not tell me that my opinion of the situation that I have experienced is wrong. We are all different and we all have different opinions of brands and dealerships.

I hope this clears up a couple off points and explains why I called the ECO a ripoff. It is my opinion and I will stick with it.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 18, 2012, 07:53:08 pm
MINZI, let this go and move on, life is too short...

I get what you are saying, also get the T's and C's thing, but there is a point where it is better to just walk away.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 18, 2012, 08:23:11 pm
MINZI, let this go and move on, life is too short...

I get what you are saying, also get the T's and C's thing, but there is a point where it is better to just walk away.
        I wanted to walk away a couple of pages ago already. But, as we all know, we can not let sleeping Wilddogs ly. That is why I made the last post. Maybe we can find something else to rant about tomorrow........ :peepwall:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Pistonpete on October 18, 2012, 08:36:49 pm
Try this...
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=109249.0
 :)
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Manic on October 18, 2012, 08:40:36 pm
Ek hoor non BMW bikes word nie eers toegelaat nie  :pot:  :peepwall:  >:D   >:D
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 18, 2012, 08:42:29 pm
Ek hoor non BMW bikes word nie eers toegelaat nie  :pot:  :peepwall:  >:D   >:D

Nooit!  ???
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Manic on October 18, 2012, 08:58:10 pm
Ek hoor non BMW bikes word nie eers toegelaat nie  :pot:  :peepwall:  >:D   >:D

Nooit!  ???

Man fok hulle, na 5 BMW bikes en nou kyk hulle my skeef uit.....

Bleh bleh........
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Brodes on October 18, 2012, 08:59:31 pm
Right, so the bottom line is:
How much will BMW have to spend on advertising and promotion to undo the damage to it's brand arising from this discussion in front of this very focussed (DS biker) audience.
More/less than the refund would have cost? Good/bad decision in hindsight?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 19, 2012, 05:56:10 am
To get back to me being pissed off with the organisers of the ECO. I do not expect special treatment from them due to the reason why I chose to cancel our bookings. The email response that I have received from David de Bruyn this week, stated short and sweet and in a typical 'one line response', that we will not receive a refund. I tried to contact him on 28 September after I spoke to Sonja at Maluti Adventures. She informed me that there were people on a waiting list and that our bookings will be filled without any problems and that we will receive our refunds ( accommodation and entry fees ) minus the admin charges. David has been out of the country at the time and I left a voicemessage for him and Coetzee Zietsman on the day. Neither of them came back to me.

The ECO only allows 600 entries due to the carbon footprint that is being left behind after the weekend. They plant 600 trees to try and offset this carbon footprint. 640 paid and confirmed bookings were made. We all had to scramble and pay the entry fees within a couple off days after the booking has been accepted. BMW Clubs has wrongfully accepted another 40 entries and money after the deadline of 600 entries were reached. Last year, the PTA BMW Club accepted more bookings on their forum from friends of theirs. They made an exception for them and openly stated that they will "bend" the rules to accommodate these people.

The right way to have handled the bookings would have been to only accepted the first 600 paid entries. People can then be placed on a waiting list and in the event of someone having to cancel, the person on the waiting list would then pay for their entry. An admin charge would then be deducted from the person that canceled and the balance paid back.

The dealings of the organisers of the ECO in this regard is money driven and they have forgotten why it is called the ECO Challenge. This is the reason why I called it a ripoff. It is not about me not receiving a refund, it is not about why I cancelled and R1600 is not going to make me any poorer than what I am at the moment. The bad taste left in my mouth is because of the way that they have handled it. We can not all hide behind Terms and Conditions. People that only think about their own wellbeing and that are not wise enough to look at the bigger picture. BMW is a big brand. It does not concern them if they have upset one or maybe 100 of their loyal clients, because there will always be more new clients that they can impress and that will support their brand.

These are harsh words and sadly also true facts. I, for one, will not support them anymore due to this incident. I own my third BMW motorcycle and will maybe buy another one someday. When I sold my R1200GSA in January of this year, I wanted to replace it with a KTM. The only reason why I bought the F800GS, were because my wife (Poplap) has a BMW and because I wanted to keep on attending the ECO challenges for another couple of years.

I did not want the Dogs to start fighting with each other due to this thread. This forum are also used for sharing good and bad experiences and for ranting and moaning. This is a social media where we all have one thing in common, DS bikes. There is always competition between the brands. If you do not like what I have stated in this thread, then do not reply to the thread. Easy as that, look away and move on. Do not tell me that my opinion of the situation that I have experienced is wrong. We are all different and we all have different opinions of brands and dealerships.

I hope this clears up a couple off points and explains why I called the ECO a ripoff. It is my opinion and I will stick with it.  :thumleft:

nice post Minzi, and I'm with you 100$
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 19, 2012, 06:13:28 am
Ek hoor non BMW bikes word nie eers toegelaat nie  :pot:  :peepwall:  >:D   >:D

Nooit!  ???

Man fok hulle, na 5 BMW bikes en nou kyk hulle my skeef uit.....

Bleh bleh........

Hulle kyk jou nie nou skeef uit nie......dis net jou BMW fiets wat hulle jou tussen hulle laat duld het. :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 19, 2012, 06:48:55 am
MINZI, let this go and move on, life is too short...
I get what you are saying, also get the T's and C's thing, but there is a point where it is better to just walk away.

Minzi, your long post was not a clarifying closing remark, but rather an opening broadside of a lot new statements and allegations.  I'm not going to leap to anyone's defence.

People put words into other's mouths.  If they are not around to counter the allegation, then the allegation is taken as fact - as one can see from my posts.

Let's just leave this issue and agree to disagree.
There are usually three sides to every situation - the third one being Truth.
We can all take a lesson from this situation to enhance our lives.
Ride safe.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 19, 2012, 06:50:02 am
I dont touch anything with ECO in its name. Its using emotions about the environment to take my money. Marketing ploy. Can kiss my eco butt. Also dont do brand specific/only stuff - thats for insecure wannabees...

Just my opinion..
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 19, 2012, 07:21:49 am
I dont touch anything with ECO in its name. Its using emotions about the environment to take my money. Marketing ploy. Can kiss my eco butt. Also dont do brand specific/only stuff - thats for insecure wannabees...

Just my opinion..

I agree. Prefer to chop down trees to make a braai after roosting river beds and doing burnouts on rare species nesting beds.

Just my take on things.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 19, 2012, 07:29:50 am
Dont forget a nice Bottlenose dolphin spit on a Yellowood fire while oing your oil change in the woods.

Just offset it by planting a tree - all is forgiven then... :imaposer:  nice Black Wattle tree? Make oxygen too, you know.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: J-dog on October 19, 2012, 07:37:00 am
 :imaposer: so true. pathetic really.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 19, 2012, 07:40:38 am
And one day when we are not making any carbon, all the trees will die. Then people ill beg us to rev the V8s to safe a tree...

Farking hippies...  Sommer moer them with a tree..
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: poplap on October 19, 2012, 09:16:28 am
MINZI, let this go and move on, life is too short...
I get what you are saying, also get the T's and C's thing, but there is a point where it is better to just walk away.

Minzi, your long post was not a clarifying closing remark, but rather an opening broadside of a lot new statements and allegations.  I'm not going to leap to anyone's defence.

People put words into other's mouths.  If they are not around to counter the allegation, then the allegation is taken as fact - as one can see from my posts.

Let's just leave this issue and agree to disagree.
There are usually three sides to every situation - the third one being Truth.
We can all take a lesson from this situation to enhance our lives.
Ride safe.

The statement made was the experience that we had with BMW Clubs. If our experience bothers you so much, then follow the advice and move on. What do you stand to gain or loose by commenting negatively on someone else's experience? Are we not allowed to share an experience anymore because we might upset someone or they might not agree with our opinions?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 19, 2012, 10:18:19 am
MINZI, let this go and move on, life is too short...
I get what you are saying, also get the T's and C's thing, but there is a point where it is better to just walk away.

Minzi, your long post was not a clarifying closing remark, but rather an opening broadside of a lot new statements and allegations.  I'm not going to leap to anyone's defence.

People put words into other's mouths.  If they are not around to counter the allegation, then the allegation is taken as fact - as one can see from my posts.

Let's just leave this issue and agree to disagree.
There are usually three sides to every situation - the third one being Truth.
We can all take a lesson from this situation to enhance our lives.
Ride safe.

To answer your allegations, my long post has been meant as a closing remark by explaining what I experienced. It was not meant to start a new debate, except maybe by you. What do you mean that people put word in other's mouths, where have I done that? They were around to counter that so called allegations, but never gave a productive answer.
You make the allegation that I am lying about my experience. How would you know? You were not part in the discussions with them, you have not read the e-mails that were sent and received. That is a really kak statement to make.
What lesson should I take from this situation? Are you my teacher or mentor now all of a sudden? I shared an experience with fellow Dogs and then you come and tell me that I am wrong in doing so and voicing my opinion. At least I have the balls to support my point of view and stand by what I believe in. But, as said before, we all have different personalities and experience things differently. I would not tell a person that his opinion is wrong if he has experienced something different to what I have.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Buddy on October 19, 2012, 10:47:43 am
My thinking remains that it's poor form from BMW and poor PR.

I will now always have a negative view of the BMW Eco Challenge - they don't do the right thing.

 :sip:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 19, 2012, 06:59:37 pm

To answer your allegations, my long post has been meant as a closing remark by explaining what I experienced. It was not meant to start a new debate, except maybe by you. What do you mean that people put word in other's mouths, where have I done that? They were around to counter that so called allegations, but never gave a productive answer.
You make the allegation that I am lying about my experience. How would you know? You were not part in the discussions with them, you have not read the e-mails that were sent and received. That is a really kak statement to make.
What lesson should I take from this situation? Are you my teacher or mentor now all of a sudden? I shared an experience with fellow Dogs and then you come and tell me that I am wrong in doing so and voicing my opinion. At least I have the balls to support my point of view and stand by what I believe in. But, as said before, we all have different personalities and experience things differently. I would not tell a person that his opinion is wrong if he has experienced something different to what I have.

"You make the allegation that I am lying about my experience."

I made no such allegation whatsoever. Please show me where I said that?
That is exactly what I mean by putting words in other people's mouths.
Why are you wanting to turn this into something personal?

My experience of the ECO is indeed something different to yours.
I do stand by what I believe.
I do have the balls to support my view - as I did in my posts - and unless I am reading you totally incorrectly,
you are telling me my opinion is wrong because I do not agree with you.

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 19, 2012, 07:30:33 pm

To answer your allegations, my long post has been meant as a closing remark by explaining what I experienced. It was not meant to start a new debate, except maybe by you. What do you mean that people put word in other's mouths, where have I done that? They were around to counter that so called allegations, but never gave a productive answer.
You make the allegation that I am lying about my experience. How would you know? You were not part in the discussions with them, you have not read the e-mails that were sent and received. That is a really kak statement to make.
What lesson should I take from this situation? Are you my teacher or mentor now all of a sudden? I shared an experience with fellow Dogs and then you come and tell me that I am wrong in doing so and voicing my opinion. At least I have the balls to support my point of view and stand by what I believe in. But, as said before, we all have different personalities and experience things differently. I would not tell a person that his opinion is wrong if he has experienced something different to what I have.

"You make the allegation that I am lying about my experience."

I made no such allegation whatsoever. Please show me where I said that?
That is exactly what I mean by putting words in other people's mouths.
Why are you wanting to turn this into something personal?

My experience of the ECO is indeed something different to yours.
I do stand by what I believe.
I do have the balls to support my view - as I did in my posts - and unless I am reading you totally incorrectly,
you are telling me my opinion is wrong because I do not agree with you.



There are usually three sides to every situation - the third one being Truth.[b][/b] This is what I am reffering to. It sounds as if you are implying that I am not telling the truth about my experience with this situation.

Why are you wanting to turn this into something personal?[b][/b] I never turned this into a personal matter, you did. I shared my experience with this forum, and you could not respect another person's experience and view on a matter that you have no interest in.

Now,do us all a favour, if you do not have any positive input in this matter, go stirr in R&P please.

My experience with the ECO has been 100% positive until now. If you feel so positive about the ECO, why are you here on the forum and not in Clocolan? I am not telling you that your opinion is wrong, I am trying to defend my opinion. So, go take a chill pill and relax, because you do not really want to get personal with me.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Rynet on October 19, 2012, 08:13:21 pm
So we were talking about Rugby earlier. I walked past a notice board earlier and found some curry cup final tickets pinned to the board . I was very excited because I can certainly use the pins .  :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: MINZI on October 19, 2012, 08:17:20 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ButchH on October 19, 2012, 08:37:05 pm
So we were talking about Rugby earlier. I walked past a notice board earlier and found some curry cup final tickets pinned to the board . I was very excited because I can certainly use the pins .  :biggrin: :biggrin:


Ka.. Funny :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: eikeboom on October 19, 2012, 08:45:06 pm
It is not too late for Red Rover to still make this a BMW marketing win.

In my opinion it is already too late.
For the readers of this thread anyway, after all the negative publicity this issue has attracted.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Odd Dog on October 20, 2012, 08:36:40 am
So we were talking about Rugby earlier. I walked past a notice board earlier and found some curry cup final tickets pinned to the board . I was very excited because I can certainly use the pins .  :biggrin: :biggrin:

 :imaposer: nice one, nice timing!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 20, 2012, 09:00:34 am
And one day when we are not making any carbon, all the trees will die. Then people ill beg us to rev the V8s to safe a tree...

Farking hippies...  Sommer moer them with a tree..

They may be Eco/tree friendly, but they are not wallet friendly..... :biggrin:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 20, 2012, 09:47:42 am
Now,do us all a favour, if you do not have any positive input in this matter, go stirr in R&P please.

My experience with the ECO has been 100% positive until now. If you feel so positive about the ECO, why are you here on the forum and not in Clocolan? I am not telling you that your opinion is wrong, I am trying to defend my opinion. So, go take a chill pill and relax, because you do not really want to get personal with me.

Please read my opening post, setting out my experience.
I entered within hours of the entries opening and paid my entry fee.  Due to a coccyx injury I have had to withdraw.
I am happy to forfeit my entry fee as the decision is mine and the T+C's were known to me...
...I was looking forward to the event.
Sadly for me, I won't be there.
All who are going, enjoy it!  :thumleft:
See you next year...

Did you not set the tone of this thread in your opening statements:
"Ripoff"… “a new money making scheme.”
“The ripoff part comes in by BMW Clubs that is charging another 2 people that took our places for the event after we paid for it.” “They fucked up and are trying to get the numbers down by taking money and not delivering.”  
(Then the opposite.)
“No new people will take our places as they have been overbooked and our food etc has been paid for.”
 “I do not expect special treatment from them due to the reason why I chose to cancel our bookings.”
“I do not care if they give me my money back or not.”

Question for your own consideration:
 Is that not EXACTLY what you wanted – your money back?  If you had received the money back and the organisers did give you special treatment and waived the T+C's, would you have started this thread at all?

As for making it personal, please just reread this…?
You make the allegation that I am lying about my experience. How would you know? You were not part in the discussions with them, you have not read the e-mails that were sent and received. That is a really kak statement to make.
What lesson should I take from this situation? Are you my teacher or mentor now all of a sudden? I shared an experience with fellow Dogs and then you come and tell me that I am wrong in doing so and voicing my opinion. At least I have the balls to support my point of view and stand by what I believe in.

Again your own words:
“If you do not like what I have stated in this thread, then do not reply to the thread.”
Minzi, you chose to reply to my post, saying it was not worthy of a response.

IN CLOSING FROM MY SIDE:
Minzi, I really do feel with you in your loss.  In my life I have lost a Father, a Stepfather and a Father-in-law.  I loved them all dearly and I still miss them all.  You are hurting and you are grieving right now.  My experience at those times was that emotions tended to blur my reasoning.  

I take no offence from this thread.  
I apologise if I have offended you in any way.
I wish you and your family strength in this time.  
The grief will pass.  
Hold on to the memories.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: White Rhino on October 22, 2012, 05:43:45 am
Minzi, if it's available to you - close the chapter on this. Rest assured, your "donation" has gone ot a good cause. The event was a cracker. The organiser pulled off a succces story. Don't let this incident prevent you from going again - you will be a better man for rising above it. Early bird says that it's in the Eastern Cape next year. :thumright:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Coetzee Zietsman on October 22, 2012, 08:05:37 pm
From my side, being one of the organizers and all - the event was a success and a huge financial investment was made into the community of Clocolan. The positive impact will be felt for years to come. The event was very Eco friendly. Riders stuck to the routes and went out of their way to play by the rules. They even obeyed rules that did not exist.
I am not a GS rider myself, but after this weekend, like last year, I have the utmost respect for GS bikes, their riders, BMW Clubs South Africa and BMW Motorad South Africa. They all went out of their way to host a great event and to do it to the benefit of the community at large and the environment. That is good enough for me and I am sure for all who attended.
As part of the organizing committee I know better than most that it is impossible to keep everybody happy. People have the right to disagree with what you do and not to attend an event like the GS Eco. That does not mean that you are wrong and it also does not mean that the brand and the event are bad. It just means that you don't agree.
Don't knock the event and the people who organized it just because you feel unhappy. Out of the 750 souls who attended and those who we dealt with who could not crack an invite, you are the only one I am aware of that has a serious issue. That, in my book, are good results and I chalk it up as a success.
Will you destroy the event and the brand with your continued critesism? I doubt it. There were too many happy customers. I am beginning to be concerned about the damage you are causing yourself though.
I think it is time for that beer and Jagermeister and to let this thing go. Join us next year and see for yourself.
And this my friend, is not the truth, just my opinion.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 22, 2012, 08:08:28 pm
From my side, being one of the organizers and all - the event was a success and a huge financial investment was made into the community of Clocolan. The positive impact will be felt for years to come. The event was very Eco friendly. Riders stuck to the routes and went out of their way to play by the rules. They even obeyed rules that did not exist.
I am not a GS rider myself, but after this weekend, like last year, I have the utmost respect for GS bikes, their riders, BMW Clubs South Africa and BMW Motorad South Africa. They all went out of their way to host a great event and to do it to the benefit of the community at large and the environment. That is good enough for me and I am sure for all who attended.
As part of the organizing committee I know better than most that it is impossible to keep everybody happy. People have the right to disagree with what you do and not to attend an event like the GS Eco. That does not mean that you are wrong and it also does not mean that the brand and the event are bad. It just means that you don't agree.
Don't knock the event and the people who organized it just because you feel unhappy. Out of the 750 souls who attended and those who we dealt with who could not crack an invite, you are the only one I am aware of that has a serious issue. That, in my book, are good results and I chalk it up as a success.
Will you destroy the event and the brand with your continued critesism? I doubt it. There were too many happy customers. I am beginning to be concerned about the damage you are causing yourself though.
I think it is time for that beer and Jagermeister and to let this thing go. Join us next year and see for yourself.
And this my friend, is not the truth, just my opinion.
+ 100000000 :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Kuifie on October 22, 2012, 09:23:07 pm
Praat die oom darem nou soos n dominee  :biggrin:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 22, 2012, 09:23:17 pm
Coetzee Zietsman, I am confused. You had 750 entrants, how many was planned for? Was Minzi's place filled after he cancelled or not? What do you mean by "all those that could not crack an invite?"
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Draad on October 22, 2012, 11:58:59 pm
Karma .... Thats the only thing to worry about.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Grolls on October 23, 2012, 04:54:58 am
Minzi, if it's available to you - close the chapter on this. Rest assured, your "donation" has gone ot a good cause. The event was a cracker. The organiser pulled off a succces story. Don't let this incident prevent you from going again - you will be a better man for rising above it. Early bird says that it's in the Eastern Cape next year. :thumright:


DITTO  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 23, 2012, 07:01:20 am
I can see this thread losing momentum, and I will just add what I have to say to the organisers, and that is that if you want to stick to the "ECO" bit of Woolworths bullshit, then you better start walking to the event wearing karos, leather sandals and strooihoede, and not arrive on any infernal combustible engine technology.
And while you ponder this, refund Minzi.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Dik Geluk on October 23, 2012, 07:26:03 am
My mother always said  ... die beste stuurman staan aan wal.

Was there, enjoyed, will go again
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 1ougat on October 23, 2012, 07:48:29 am
I can see this thread losing momentum, and I will just add what I have to say to the organisers, and that is that if you want to stick to the "ECO" bit of Woolworths bullshit, then you better start walking to the event wearing karos, leather sandals and strooihoede, and not arrive on any infernal combustible engine technology.
And while you ponder this, refund Minzi.


Amasing to see this coming from a Yamaha lover that will never experience the goodness of a GS Eco ... did not see the strooihoede etc myself .... maybe Guppy and Clint was the closest to that look .... did see the 1000 trees planted ... did see ordinary folks having a ball of a time in nature ...... did see the old age home that will benefit ... did hear about one guy crying in his beer because he did not read the smallprint ..... did see the major impact the event had on the survival of a town like Clocolan ....Did see 12 HP2's at the event .... What a beautiful event put on in a responsible manner ... like limiting the entry numbers .... Next year be sharp and first to enter otherwise you going to loose out again .... and read the smallprint .... 2SD I think I can loan you two BMW badges that you can put over the tuning forks and then also join ... then you can walk in our shoes and then have first class insight to continue your raving  ..... until then may the bluebird of happiness be with you ...Peace OUT... (Now where did I put my Karos en Strooihoed?)    :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 23, 2012, 07:52:46 am
From my side, being one of the organizers and all - the event was a success and a huge financial investment was made into the community of Clocolan. The positive impact will be felt for years to come. The event was very Eco friendly. Riders stuck to the routes and went out of their way to play by the rules. They even obeyed rules that did not exist.
I am not a GS rider myself, but after this weekend, like last year, I have the utmost respect for GS bikes, their riders, BMW Clubs South Africa and BMW Motorad South Africa. They all went out of their way to host a great event and to do it to the benefit of the community at large and the environment. That is good enough for me and I am sure for all who attended.
As part of the organizing committee I know better than most that it is impossible to keep everybody happy. People have the right to disagree with what you do and not to attend an event like the GS Eco. That does not mean that you are wrong and it also does not mean that the brand and the event are bad. It just means that you don't agree.
Don't knock the event and the people who organized it just because you feel unhappy. Out of the 750 souls who attended and those who we dealt with who could not crack an invite, you are the only one I am aware of that has a serious issue. That, in my book, are good results and I chalk it up as a success.
Will you destroy the event and the brand with your continued critesism? I doubt it. There were too many happy customers. I am beginning to be concerned about the damage you are causing yourself though.
I think it is time for that beer and Jagermeister and to let this thing go. Join us next year and see for yourself.
And this my friend, is not the truth, just my opinion.

Maybe give Minzi a free entry to next year's event.......save at least a bit of face.....
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BlingKing on October 23, 2012, 10:03:57 am
I can see this thread losing momentum, and I will just add what I have to say to the organisers, and that is that if you want to stick to the "ECO" bit of Woolworths bullshit, then you better start walking to the event wearing karos, leather sandals and strooihoede, and not arrive on any infernal combustible engine technology.
And while you ponder this, refund Minzi.


Amasing to see this coming from a Yamaha lover that will never experience the goodness of a GS Eco ... did not see the strooihoede etc myself .... maybe Guppy and Clint was the closest to that look .... did see the 1000 trees planted ... did see ordinary folks having a ball of a time in nature ...... did see the old age home that will benefit ... did hear about one guy crying in his beer because he did not read the smallprint ..... did see the major impact the event had on the survival of a town like Clocolan ....Did see 12 HP2's at the event .... What a beautiful event put on in a responsible manner ... like limiting the entry numbers .... Next year be sharp and first to enter otherwise you going to loose out again .... and read the smallprint .... 2SD I think I can loan you two BMW badges that you can put over the tuning forks and then also join ... then you can walk in our shoes and then have first class insight to continue your raving  ..... until then may the bluebird of happiness be with you ...Peace OUT... (Now where did I put my Karos en Strooihoed?)    :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

Lol what HE said - guys you enter Argus or the 94.7 cycle race and bail out you lose the money, but what clever peeps do is advertise on the relevant hub and sell their entry, why wasn't this done? I am sure if you put that thread on this board you would've had a ton of okes buying your entry. Rules are rules, you set them you have to stick to them otherwise it becomes a clusterf&*% - what other rules must they bend, let people on KTM's and Yamaha's join, let entrants crap in the showers instead of the toilets, i.e. what is the end point of the rule bending?
I do know that I am the kakkest for reading manulas and T's & C's - but if the T's & C's come round and bite my ass I have a beer and move on!
Let it go bud and know your tom went to the old bullies who really need it!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Manic on October 23, 2012, 10:19:56 am
Why is only BMW allowed?

I dont like being an out cast now that I sold mine  :'(
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 23, 2012, 10:23:20 am
Maybe give Minzi a free entry to next year's event...

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BlingKing on October 23, 2012, 10:26:29 am
Why is only BMW allowed?

I dont like being an out cast now that I sold mine  :'(

You little whore - you did WHAT?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Manic on October 23, 2012, 10:32:29 am
Why is only BMW allowed?

I dont like being an out cast now that I sold mine  :'(

You little whore - you did WHAT?

hehehehe, you see, I spent thousands with you, now I'm not allowed to ride with anymore  :pot: :peepwall: :imaposer:
Did you notice your turn over went down? Cause I sold my bike  :imaposer:   :imaposer:   :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BlingKing on October 23, 2012, 10:35:30 am
Why is only BMW allowed?

I dont like being an out cast now that I sold mine  :'(

You little whore - you did WHAT?

hehehehe, you see, I spent thousands with you, now I'm not allowed to ride with anymore  :pot: :peepwall: :imaposer:
Did you notice your turn over went down? Cause I sold my bike  :imaposer:   :imaposer:   :imaposer:

Naaais I am going to have a bleak Xmas coz you bought a pommy boney, but wait I still heff goodies for you, you can run but your credit card she cannot hide from me !!!!
Many safe miles with your new baby boet!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Rafiki on October 23, 2012, 11:47:34 am
I can see this thread losing momentum, and I will just add what I have to say to the organisers, and that is that if you want to stick to the "ECO" bit of Woolworths bullshit, then you better start walking to the event wearing karos, leather sandals and strooihoede, and not arrive on any infernal combustible engine technology.
And while you ponder this, refund Minzi.

Ek aanvaar die blik is redelik leeg met opmerkings soos die?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Coetzee Zietsman on October 23, 2012, 07:06:59 pm
Coetzee Zietsman, I am confused. You had 750 entrants, how many was planned for? Was Minzi's place filled after he cancelled or not? What do you mean by "all those that could not crack an invite?"
There was 620 bikes entered. Add to that a couple of pillions, BMW SA Staff, Club Staff and the media and you get to a number of 750. Much the same as last year.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 23, 2012, 08:28:12 pm
Coetzee Zietsman, I am confused. You had 750 entrants, how many was planned for? Was Minzi's place filled after he cancelled or not? What do you mean by "all those that could not crack an invite?"
There was 620 bikes entered. Add to that a couple of pillions, BMW SA Staff, Club Staff and the media and you get to a number of 750. Much the same as last year.

I understood that only 600 bikes would be allowed to partake, due to the Eco unfriendly footprint after that figure. Therefore I can only make the deduction that Minzi's payment was kept ON TOP of that of whoever filled their places?
If you can assure me that after withdrawing, Minzi's places were left unfilled, but already catered for and paid, I would understand that a refund would have been impossible.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BennNevis on October 23, 2012, 09:02:27 pm
Hey one eye king let it be. Not your fight oh little one
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 23, 2012, 09:04:31 pm
Hey one eye king let it be. Not your fight oh little one

Or your's?? :imaposer:

Would'nt the organisers love for it to melt away, like Nkandla! :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BennNevis on October 23, 2012, 09:08:22 pm
Should you not be putting out fires on another fred?
From what i can tell the organizers could not give a toss, see they've got the T&C to fall back on
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: blauth on October 23, 2012, 09:21:19 pm
Did you accept the Terms and Conditions when you entered?
Edit: Yes you did
Quote
2. By registering for this event, you automatically accept the terms and conditions and agree that you are attending the event entirely at    your own risk.

Did you cancel before or after 18 September?

That is really all there is to it.

Agree with you 100% in terms of the law and they are entitled to not refund however....a fair resolution would be a refund less handling fee considering the slots were filled so this just gives me the impression that they are full of shit....

Marketing spends big dolla's to uplift the brand and the event just to screw it up again for a couple of bucks. Backward ECOnomics!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RogerL on October 24, 2012, 10:25:35 am
A very entertaining read, thank you to all who participated.

Not surprisingly, the jury was out for less than 2 minutes...in fact they never left their chairs.  BMW, very poor effort.

Unfortunately, social media is viral and this story will circulate and it will do damage to the brand.  You can try and defend it, but to allow something like this to even get to a stage where your name is associated with something negative like this, especially within the exclusive niche where you operate.  No BMW, No!  Even though you are not the organisers, it is still your show.  People will remember the name BMW long before any other name.  This should never have been allowed to happen, not on this forum in this day and age.  For R800!!!

PR 101 - do not piss your potential market off, ever!  And the bold statements about no brand damage, don't be fooled into a false sense of security.  Yes, you have a waiting list so you will always be full, but how many return clients?  And how many from this forum - the biggest free advertising spot you can get.  People vote with their feet very quickly, and the arrogance of the organisation is only inflaming the situation.

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Gingerball on October 24, 2012, 10:36:28 am
Will I stop riding a BMW because of this thread? No
Were the organizers by rights to refuse the refund, as stipulated and signed by the entrant? Yes
Do I think the organizers and BMW could (not should) have handled it better? Yes.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: TheBear on October 24, 2012, 02:15:36 pm
 :ricky:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ETS on October 24, 2012, 02:39:10 pm
IMHO
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BlingKing on October 24, 2012, 03:14:50 pm
IMHO

no shite sherlock!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RogerL on October 24, 2012, 03:17:11 pm
Will I stop riding a BMW because of this thread? No
Were the organizers by rights to refuse the refund, as stipulated and signed by the entrant? Yes
Do I think the organizers and BMW could (not should) have handled it better? Yes.

The issue is not that, but rather that they charged Minzi, and then (re)charged the replacement people who took the spot that was already paid for, as well.  They simply filled the vacancies from the waiting list.  If they advertised 600 places, they would then have only asked the suppliers to quote on 600 places.  They allowed it to be overbooked, but nobody plans a bash, sets a limit and then overbooks and allows the overbookees to also attend.  Why not then just tender for 800!  Or just close entries on 18 Sept as the planning seems to be a free-for-all anyway.  Then you can justify not refunding as the suppliers were paid.  But double selling the spot - nothing less than blatant theft!

No sirree, only the soccer stadiums work on that system.

Do I think the organizers are unscrupulous?  Yes
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: africanSky on October 24, 2012, 03:22:04 pm
Why is it in this day and age that people enter into a contract, knowing the conditions up front, then break the contract and get pissed off when the supplier / organiser enforces the terms of the agreement?
We live in a time when people do not seem to be willing to take responsibility for their actions?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Snafu on October 24, 2012, 03:28:32 pm
IMHO

 :thumleft: :thumleft:

I agree

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 24, 2012, 05:53:39 pm
Why is it in this day and age that people enter into a contract, knowing the conditions up front, then break the contract and get pissed off when the supplier / organiser enforces the terms of the agreement?
We live in a time when people do not seem to be willing to take responsibility for their actions?

What reason would a supplier/organiser have for holding you to the T+C's, if they get immediate fill-ins that cover all cost? One reason. Dishonesty.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 24, 2012, 05:54:39 pm
Round and round she goes...
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: africanSky on October 24, 2012, 05:58:17 pm
Round and round she goes...

Yep, like a stuck record.....
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on October 24, 2012, 07:59:28 pm
Nearly 3000 views  :o
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BOER! on October 24, 2012, 08:02:59 pm
Cant believe this thread is still going.

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 24, 2012, 08:05:23 pm
Caution, gentlemen - some of the postings on this page are borderline libelous.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Freak on October 24, 2012, 08:36:18 pm
Okay after reading all farking  9 pages... I give my take.

What the fcuk is the use of terms and conditions if you will wipe your ass on it when it suits you?
Come on chaps... If you didn't read what you signed for.. That's your own stupidity. Simple.
Imagine they allow refund for special cases. Every tool will come up with a valid ( in his books ) reason to be refunded. Death is untimely and unfortunate yes. But business is business.. And they fealty with YOU who entered... Not your family.

Harsh but true...

You messed up. Please just don't write a letter to car magazine !
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 24, 2012, 08:41:08 pm
Okay after reading all farking  9 pages... I give my take.

What the fcuk is the use of terms and conditions if you will wipe your ass on it when it suits you?
Come on chaps... If you didn't read what you signed for.. That's your own stupidity. Simple.
Imagine they allow refund for special cases. Every tool will come up with a valid ( in his books ) reason to be refunded. Death is untimely and unfortunate yes. But business is business.. And they fealty with YOU who entered... Not your family.

Harsh but true...

You messed up. Please just don't write a letter to car magazine !

The point is missed here, in this case it seems that the T+C's are being used as excuse to take double entry money. The organisers immediately filled `Minzi's places with another PAYING couple, and then hid behind the T+C's to score double. This pisses me off.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Beagle Boy on October 24, 2012, 08:58:32 pm
 :bueller:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 24, 2012, 09:08:25 pm
Okay after reading all farking  9 pages... I give my take.

What the fcuk is the use of terms and conditions if you will wipe your ass on it when it suits you?
Come on chaps... If you didn't read what you signed for.. That's your own stupidity. Simple.
Imagine they allow refund for special cases. Every tool will come up with a valid ( in his books ) reason to be refunded. Death is untimely and unfortunate yes. But business is business.. And they fealty with YOU who entered... Not your family.

Harsh but true...

You messed up. Please just don't write a letter to car magazine !

The point is missed here, in this case it seems that the T+C's are being used as excuse to take double entry money. The organisers immediately filled `Minzi's places with another PAYING couple, and then hid behind the T+C's to score double. This pisses me off.
Ok, Fok Dan jy kan nou maar aanbeweeg.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 24, 2012, 09:11:28 pm
Oom Daan, dit is aangeteken en genotuleer dat jy af geurineer is.
Dit is ook so dat die organiseerders duidelik 'n fok voel dat jy kapsie maak, dit is ook genotuleer.

Is daar nie iewers 'n ABS of ping thread wat jou aandag eerder verdien nie?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Rynet on October 24, 2012, 09:16:44 pm
Okay after reading all farking  9 pages... I give my take.

What the fcuk is the use of terms and conditions if you will wipe your ass on it when it suits you?
Come on chaps... If you didn't read what you signed for.. That's your own stupidity. Simple.
Imagine they allow refund for special cases. Every tool will come up with a valid ( in his books ) reason to be refunded. Death is untimely and unfortunate yes. But business is business.. And they fealty with YOU who entered... Not your family.

Harsh but true...

You messed up. Please just don't write a letter to car magazine !

The point is missed here, in this case it seems that the T+C's are being used as excuse to take double entry money. The organisers immediately filled `Minzi's places with another PAYING couple, and then hid behind the T+C's to score double. This pisses me off.

 :eek7: :eek7:

Hou nou op om die waarheid te praat Dan , jy sien mos die mense hou nie daarvan nie . :mwink:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 24, 2012, 09:18:28 pm
Fok die mense. :xxbah:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 24, 2012, 09:20:28 pm
r
Fok die mense. :xxbah:


Hoe kry mens Coke wat deur jou neus tot n fyn sproei met snot gemeng het van n tablet af?

Nee hel, jy moet mens waarsku.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 24, 2012, 09:28:39 pm
Fok die mense. :xxbah:

Jy het nie die geld nie en ek het nie die tyd nie. :patch: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 24, 2012, 09:30:24 pm
Nee hel ouens man, ek sien gereeld hoe die klaers noem hoe hulle sonder smeermiddel moes oorbuk om te koop in ons bedryf, hier is n sprekende voorbeeld van n geldgierigheid wat selfs teenoor familie dood yskoud staan, en julle regop wurms doen fokkol??
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Takashi on October 24, 2012, 09:30:36 pm
I have followed this and here is my 2c

The organizers over booked - Admitted
Some people canceled - The reason we are here
No refunds - Admitted

I see it that the organizers over booked and everybody paid.
650 people paid their R800 even though it was said only 600 will be allowed. - Fine
Now some cant attend and it is past the refund cut off time.

620 people attend the event (excluding the staff ect....)
How is it that BMW then made money twice. Fine they went over the 600 allowed but this does not mean they only arranged for 600 when they saw 650 has been booked and paid for.
They had 650 bookings 620 attended.... They did not sell the cancelled bookings to anybody else otherwise 650 would have attended.

Or am I looking at it wrong?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 24, 2012, 09:35:26 pm
I have followed this and here is my 2c

The organizers over booked - Admitted
Some people canceled - The reason we are here
No refunds - Admitted

I see it that the organizers over booked and everybody paid.
650 people paid their R800 even though it was said only 600 will be allowed. - Fine
Now some cant attend and it is past the refund cut off time.

620 people attend the event (excluding the staff ect....)
How is it that BMW then made money twice. Fine they went over the 600 allowed but this does not mean they only arranged for 600 when they saw 650 has been booked and paid for.
They had 650 bookings 620 attended.... They did not sell the cancelled bookings to anybody else otherwise 650 would have attended.

Or am I looking at it wrong?

I already asked this question, but as someone pointed out, the organisers feel fokkol for a few okes wanting to know.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Beagle Boy on October 24, 2012, 09:35:57 pm
r
Fok die mense. :xxbah:


Hoe kry mens Coke wat deur jou neus tot n fyn sproei met snot gemeng het van n tablet af?

Nee hel, jy moet mens waarsku.
:laughing4:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Takashi on October 24, 2012, 09:42:30 pm
I have followed this and here is my 2c

The organizers over booked - Admitted
Some people canceled - The reason we are here
No refunds - Admitted

I see it that the organizers over booked and everybody paid.
650 people paid their R800 even though it was said only 600 will be allowed. - Fine
Now some cant attend and it is past the refund cut off time.

620 people attend the event (excluding the staff ect....)
How is it that BMW then made money twice. Fine they went over the 600 allowed but this does not mean they only arranged for 600 when they saw 650 has been booked and paid for.
They had 650 bookings 620 attended.... They did not sell the cancelled bookings to anybody else otherwise 650 would have attended.

Or am I looking at it wrong?

I already asked this question, but as someone pointed out, the organisers feel fokkol for a few okes wanting to know.

 
The point I'm trying to make is the spot left by our disgruntled friend was not necessarily filled. Because they had overbooked, as in more people PAID to be there than allowed.

Everyone that paid for the event was catered for with food ect. thus all the overbooked ppl as well.
The late cancellation caused less of a over booking problem but the money spent is still the same.

Nobody replaced the open spot, BMW Club did not sell his spot to someone else and did not make twice the money because of it.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 24, 2012, 09:46:32 pm
And the Club never bothered to explain such. From all I have read here, the cancelled spots were filled.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ButchH on October 24, 2012, 09:49:46 pm
They had 650 bookings 620 attended=30 did not attend but were catered for simple math
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Takashi on October 24, 2012, 09:52:08 pm
They overbooked by 40 people and have taken their money. Now, they are down to 26 overbooked ***snip***

This shows that 40 more people paid and they were catered for.

626 then showed up. If the canceled spots were filled then 640 would have attended.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fudmucker on October 25, 2012, 07:05:59 am
Takashi, you are wasting your time explaining.
The Anti-BMW club is now well established (with some recent floor crossers, I see?)
and nothing you say will convince them otherwise.

Somebody once said:
"There are none so deaf as those who refuse to listen"
Go have a lekker coffee instead.

BYE ALL...  :ricky:
 
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RogerL on October 25, 2012, 09:00:41 am
How is this for a new money making scheme. We had to cancel our ECO trip this year due to my Stepdad being sick and passing away. We contacted Maluti Adventures a couple of weeks ago and informed them. They refunded our accommodation minus some fees, no problem. Our entries into the ECO were filled immediately. David de Bruyn from BMW Clubs informed us that they can not refund our entry fees due to the fact that they had to pay all the vendors already.

Now, my problem is, we paid, the people that took over our entry paid their money, but BMW will not refund our entry fee. Talk about being paid double for performing a single duty.

What is so hard about dealing with the facts.  Where does it state that the overbookees all attended???  It states that Their places were filled immediately. 

If the Overbookees all attended, then they could not have been overbookees!!!  They would have been paid up attendees...
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: TheBear on October 25, 2012, 09:43:51 am
Fok die mense. :xxbah:


Jinne!  Nie geweet jy leun daaaaaai kant toe nie!   :pot:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ButchH on October 25, 2012, 10:03:36 am
Takashi, you are wasting your time explaining.
The Anti-BMW club is now well established (with some recent floor crossers, I see?)
and nothing you say will convince them otherwise.

Somebody once said:
"There are none so deaf as those who refuse to listen"
Go have a lekker coffee instead.

BYE ALL...  :ricky:
 



 :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RogerL on October 25, 2012, 03:15:48 pm
hmmm....from the website.

BMW GS Eco, 18th to 21st October 2012, Clocolan, Free State.
Limited to 600 paying GS riders, with their optional pillions, the 2012 event will follow the same format as 2011.

The limit is part of the commitment given by BMW Motorrad's Rob Holder in 2011 – to ensure the Eco theme is adhered to: Eco – to continue to experience our eco system at its best in the unique Maluti environment, while ensuring that the impact on the environment is kept to a minimum.

Please note - please pay your registration fee and accommodation deposit when registering as we need to apply an automatic cancellation rule after 7 days to ensure that we don't have provisional bookings that are not committed to pay and therefore preventing other participants to book.  


So all the maths does not apply...

Minzi = 1
BMW fans = 0
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 25, 2012, 03:35:52 pm
 :sleepy1:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RogerL on October 25, 2012, 04:07:24 pm
Give that man a Bells!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 25, 2012, 04:32:05 pm
Like Fudmucker said, none deafer or blinder than a blind BMW fan.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: paule on October 25, 2012, 04:39:38 pm
Sorry I haven't read all the previous pages - can somebody tell what this is all about?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ETS on October 25, 2012, 04:44:12 pm
Sorry I haven't read all the previous pages - can somebody tell what this is all about?

Faaaaark maybe you'll have to read all 11 pges. I have and still........
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 1ougat on October 25, 2012, 04:46:26 pm
Apparently it is something like: " Ek is baie jammer om van jou kak te hoor!"


And you are lucky that you missed it
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ETS on October 25, 2012, 04:47:24 pm
:sleepy1:

 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :bueller: :bueller: :bueller:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 25, 2012, 04:48:33 pm
It is always a storm in a teacup if it happens to someone else. :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RassieGS on October 25, 2012, 07:20:42 pm
 :ricky: :sip: :ricky:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fenderbender on October 25, 2012, 07:45:08 pm
Jinne ouens leer julle dan nie . Julle weet mos nou al teen die tyd BMW is k@k , selfs die lekker events wat hulle aanbied is k@k . Dink julle moet maar liewer vir julle Kawasaki's of Yamaha's kry . Ek hoor daai ouens het nooit probleme nie , al 37 van hulle .
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ButchH on October 25, 2012, 07:48:31 pm
Jinne ouens leer julle dan nie . Julle weet mos nou al teen die tyd BMW is k@k , selfs die lekker events wat hulle aanbied is k@k . Dink julle moet maar liewer vir julle Kawasaki's of Yamaha's kry . Ek hoor daai ouens het nooit probleme nie , al 37 van hulle .


Nee man dit is die ouens (all models) wat bek rek :deal:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: poplap on October 25, 2012, 07:59:35 pm
 
It is always a storm in a teacup if it happens to someone else. :imaposer:

Well said  :biggrin:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Garfield on October 25, 2012, 08:03:10 pm
Jinne ouens leer julle dan nie . Julle weet mos nou al teen die tyd BMW is k@k , selfs die lekker events wat hulle aanbied is k@k . Dink julle moet maar liewer vir julle Kawasaki's of Yamaha's kry . Ek hoor daai ouens het nooit probleme nie , al 37 van hulle .

37!!!! Liewe fok, het hulle 20 nuwes verkoop die maand?
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Fenderbender on October 25, 2012, 09:08:07 pm
 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: White Rhino on October 26, 2012, 02:59:12 am
Jinne ouens leer julle dan nie . Julle weet mos nou al teen die tyd BMW is k@k , selfs die lekker events wat hulle aanbied is k@k . Dink julle moet maar liewer vir julle Kawasaki's of Yamaha's kry . Ek hoor daai ouens het nooit probleme nie , al 37 van hulle .

:imaposer:

Democracy is useless unless the minority have a voice ... they just have to talk a little louder :peepwall:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BennNevis on October 26, 2012, 03:10:48 pm
To see or relive a little of this event – see the BMW GS Eco video insert on channel 189 – Ignition TV - The Bike Show this weekend - Broadcast Times:

Sat: 2am/ 12pm/ 8pm
Sun: 8am/ 4pm / 11.30pm

"Before you speak, ask yourself, is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, and does it improve on the silence?"

the quote above, is especially for our resident shit stirrer

copied from WCBMW
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ETS on October 26, 2012, 03:12:49 pm
It is always a storm in a teacup if it happens to someone else. :imaposer:



 ??? ::) ??? ::) ??? ::) ??? ::) :xxbah:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JacoM on October 26, 2012, 03:18:02 pm
Jinne ouens leer julle dan nie . Julle weet mos nou al teen die tyd BMW is k@k , selfs die lekker events wat hulle aanbied is k@k . Dink julle moet maar liewer vir julle Kawasaki's of Yamaha's kry . Ek hoor daai ouens het nooit probleme nie , al 37 van hulle .
Ag nee man FB - Wil jy nou die agument opneuk deur 'n paar feite aan te  ;)haal??
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: ETS on October 26, 2012, 03:23:32 pm
Liewe fok. Ek is nou klaar met die thread. Die lewe gaan aan.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 26, 2012, 05:19:29 pm
Fenderbender, die soort onsmaaklikhid kan seker op enige fabrikaat se byeenkoms gebeur, maar o wee hoe sal dit dan nou net by julle brand kop uitsteek?  :imaposer:
Ek se ook niks teen BMW motorfietse, of teen di ECo challenge nie, julle neem sommer so half outomaties aan dis kak goed. :mwink:


Miskien moet ek maar saam met Ets aanbeweeg.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 1ougat on October 26, 2012, 10:16:59 pm
Fenderbender, die soort onsmaaklikhid kan seker op enige fabrikaat se byeenkoms gebeur, maar o wee hoe sal dit dan nou net by julle brand kop uitsteek?  :imaposer:
Ek se ook niks teen BMW motorfietse, of teen di ECo challenge nie, julle neem sommer so half outomaties aan dis kak goed. :mwink:


Miskien moet ek maar saam met Ets aanbeweeg.


2SD as jy om jou kyk sal jy sien ons almal het aanbeweeg ..... miskien is  jy maar agter omdat jy op die propeller ry ... die stoffies doer voor is ons  (oppad na volgen de jaar se ECO)
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 27, 2012, 06:25:50 am
1ougat + 100000 :thumleft:
Kan nie wag om volgende jaar vir die sewende keer deel te wees van die "ripoff" nie! ;)
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 27, 2012, 08:57:52 am
And maybe one day, he may wake up realising - that not everyone think exactly as he does. Actually, that very few people's thoughts are aligned with his reasoning and opinion.  That day, Dilbert may find himself capable being in harmony with others and his environment...
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 27, 2012, 10:14:10 am
And maybe one day, he may wake up realising - that not everyone think exactly as he does. Actually, that very few people's thoughts are aligned with his reasoning and opinion.  That day, Dilbert may find himself capable being in harmony with others and his environment...

Never!!!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Manic on October 27, 2012, 10:37:02 am
And maybe one day, he may wake up realising - that not everyone think exactly as he does. Actually, that very few people's thoughts are aligned with his reasoning and opinion.  That day, Dilbert may find himself capable being in harmony with others and his environment...

Never!!!

Yes, NEVER! Screw them  >:D  :laughing4:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RassieGS on October 27, 2012, 12:10:32 pm
1ougat + 100000 :thumleft:
Kan nie wag om volgende jaar vir die sewende keer deel te wees van die "ripoff" nie! ;)
Ek het die ripoff so geniet ek betaal sommer dubbel volgende jaar dan ry ek elke roete tweekeer :ricky:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 27, 2012, 02:16:02 pm
1ougat + 100000 :thumleft:
Kan nie wag om volgende jaar vir die sewende keer deel te wees van die "ripoff" nie! ;)
Ek het die ripoff so geniet ek betaal sommer dubbel volgende jaar dan ry ek elke roete tweekeer :ricky:

Roetes so maklik? :peepwall:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: RassieGS on October 27, 2012, 04:43:36 pm
1ougat + 100000 :thumleft:
Kan nie wag om volgende jaar vir die sewende keer deel te wees van die "ripoff" nie! ;)
Ek het die ripoff so geniet ek betaal sommer dubbel volgende jaar dan ry ek elke roete tweekeer :ricky:

Roetes so maklik? :peepwall:

Nee 2 strele daan so lekker!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 27, 2012, 05:41:32 pm
 :ricky:mooi man!, BTW ek het nooit iets teen die roetes, of die kostes, of die etes, of die betalende deelnemers, lees wweer die thread. Regdeur. :o
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: JVR on October 27, 2012, 06:53:28 pm
en julle regop wurms doen fokkol??
Ne. :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: White Rhino on October 28, 2012, 07:09:57 am
And maybe one day, he may wake up realising - that not everyone think exactly as he does. Actually, that very few people's thoughts are aligned with his reasoning and opinion.  That day, Dilbert may find himself capable being in harmony with others and his environment...
Not a fcuk, that would suggest conforming ...
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: BennNevis on October 28, 2012, 07:30:11 am
And maybe one day, he may wake up realising - that not everyone think exactly as he does. Actually, that very few people's thoughts are aligned with his reasoning and opinion.  That day, Dilbert may find himself capable being in harmony with others and his environment...
Not a fcuk, that would suggest conforming ...

Being opinionated to the extent that when you post you do it to provoke is not "not conforming"
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 28, 2012, 07:37:02 am
Never has so much been said about so little :biggrin:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 28, 2012, 08:04:41 am
Never has so much been said about so little :biggrin:

And as so often in the past, and in true BMW tradition, the attempt is made to belittle the man, and still have no opinion on the topic at hand. Maybe, just maybe, it is not me who needs to "conform" :mwink:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 28, 2012, 08:12:06 am
Much ado about nothing ;D
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 28, 2012, 04:11:33 pm
Ado is mos waar die olifante rondloop.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: Pistonpete on October 28, 2012, 04:20:33 pm
Its just been on TV...looked great!
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 28, 2012, 05:39:28 pm
The event looked great indeed, and from comments here on the forum it was[once again] a big success. But of course this is not what this thread is about, is it now? :mwink:
When Kilroy started commenting, the level of intelligent answers could only go down...... :peepwall:, Kilroy do your own forum a favour and stick to R+P. That works for you. Only you.
The event looked great indeed, and from comments here on the forum it was[once again] a big success. But of course this is not what this thread is about, is it now? :mwink:
When Kilroy started commenting, the level of intelligent answers could only go down...... :peepwall:, Kilroy do your own forum a favour and stick to R+P. That works for you. Only you.
The event looked great indeed, and from comments here on the forum it was[once again] a big success. But of course this is not what this thread is about, is it now? :mwink:
When Kilroy started commenting, the level of intelligent answers could only go down...... :peepwall:, Kilroy do your own forum a favour and stick to R+P. That works for you. Only you.

Do yourself a favour and stop the personal attacks and stop your anti-BMW vendetta. It started of as being mildly annoying but its getting to the point where its counter productive for the whole forum. Personally i dont mind your brand bashing, but the amounts of PMs and Report to Mods i'm getting from members about you is frankly irritating.

Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: badseed on October 28, 2012, 05:56:44 pm
Could the wingy BM crowd just grow thicker skin and stop taking the bait. As long as 2 stroke gets a reaction him and a few others (me included)will always br tempted to get a rise .A bit like the Muslims.

This is a bike forum where both guys and girls need balls.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 28, 2012, 07:21:05 pm
The event looked great indeed, and from comments here on the forum it was[once again] a big success. But of course this is not what this thread is about, is it now? :mwink:
When Kilroy started commenting, the level of intelligent answers could only go down...... :peepwall:, Kilroy do your own forum a favour and stick to R+P. That works for you. Only you.
The event looked great indeed, and from comments here on the forum it was[once again] a big success. But of course this is not what this thread is about, is it now? :mwink:
When Kilroy started commenting, the level of intelligent answers could only go down...... :peepwall:, Kilroy do your own forum a favour and stick to R+P. That works for you. Only you.
The event looked great indeed, and from comments here on the forum it was[once again] a big success. But of course this is not what this thread is about, is it now? :mwink:
When Kilroy started commenting, the level of intelligent answers could only go down...... :peepwall:, Kilroy do your own forum a favour and stick to R+P. That works for you. Only you.

Do yourself a favour and stop the personal attacks and stop your anti-BMW vendetta. It started of as being mildly annoying but its getting to the point where its counter productive for the whole forum. Personally i dont mind your brand bashing, but the amounts of PMs and Report to Mods i'm getting from members about you is frankly irritating.



How weird that I am getting none :mwink:, is there Wilddogs out there that would rather run and cry to Kilroy than PM me myself???? Difficult to believe.
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 28, 2012, 07:24:53 pm
This is how I remember Kilroy from R+P. he will post a personal attack in post 224, then cry his head off if something comes back at him.
BTW, Kilroy, do you agree or disagree with the way that BMW club handled this guys personal loss? Watch him tell me it has no bearing on things, on the thread about it :imaposer:
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 28, 2012, 07:29:29 pm
This is how I remember Kilroy from R+P. he will post a personal attack in post 224, then cry his head off if something comes back at him.
BTW, Kilroy, do you agree or disagree with the way that BMW club handled this guys personal loss? Watch him tell me it has no bearing on things, on the thread about it :imaposer:


Not going to have your R&P tendencie spill over in the General section. So rather stick to the topic and leave the personal attacks comments.

Cheers..
Title: Re: BMW ECO 2012 ripoff!!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 28, 2012, 07:45:01 pm
Cheers Kilroy :ricky: