Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => BMW 1200/ADV => Topic started by: David van Breda on October 17, 2007, 03:22:11 pm

Title: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 17, 2007, 03:22:11 pm
I had a tough day yesterday which left me completely disillusioned! 

As I mentioned elsewhere on the site, my new 1200GSA's fuelpump failed at 1000kms leaving me stranded in traffic . . .
It was duly replaced by the agent the next day and all was well again.

I was on a long trip yesterday.  Riding along in pure pliss thru thunderstorms and open veld, I noticed a ''flat spot'' in acceleration around the 140-150km/h mark.  Over that speed it pulled lik an ox all the way further into illegal speeds.

Sitting lekker at around 160 there was a complete loss of power and engine cut-out with all the accompanying backfire and pinging type noises . . .  I somehow recovered the engine and continued to ride on.  I was in a remote part of the country with no cellphone reception and not a lot of options . . .

Then about 50-60kms further, there was a moer of a bang and the whole farking motor just clonked out!  It was completely in its moer . . . Blown to pieces . . .

I had reception by then and called my friendly BMW dealer (they really are!) and they promptly organized a rescue team.  After a while they called me back and told me that research shows that about 60 of the 1000 GSA's sold in SA has suffered the same fate because of a software glitch in the electronic engine management sytem!  Apparently the system pre or post ignite around 14-150 in 6th gear and then eventually you have an engine failure.

We agreed in principle to have a new engine fitted with all the new warranties in place again but firmly stated that they do not gaurentee it will not happen again!  They are still working on the software and some kind of additive in the fuel will help for the time being!

I have a meeting with them tomorrow and will basically tell them to fix and take back the bike.  It has now done 3400kms but I have lost faith in it sadly!  It has now officially a worse track record than all of the 9 Land Rovers I owned in my life!  Obviously I cannot find the words to describe my total sadness and feeling of loss,  but in the end, I cannot continue on this path with a 160k investment!

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: LostDOG on October 17, 2007, 03:26:16 pm
Sorry to hear this - never lekka thing!

Hope all turns out ok in the end.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ama ride ride on October 17, 2007, 03:28:06 pm
Jeez Davy.

Understand how you feel. Not nice. Hope you get sorted out. Please keep us updated on what happened and why. :-\


Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Uiltjie on October 17, 2007, 03:29:49 pm
  It has now officially a worse track record than all of the 9 Land Rovers I owned in my life! 

Damn, that takes some doing! ;D

Good luck buddy, not easy!

Gaan vang vis!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Eisbein on October 17, 2007, 03:36:03 pm
Sheez - that's not lekker to hear...

Such a cool bike and such issues.

3500 k's ? Lucky the okes at teh BeeEm shop sounds like they won't give you too much grief.

That is sad.

Give it back to them and buy a 1150GSA and a KTM640
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 17, 2007, 03:54:04 pm
Eeich I hate to hear this kind of thing, those Boxer motors have been so bullet proof for years, its all this Hi-tec wizardry that causes this Kark, I hope you come right. :(
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Dirt Dog on October 17, 2007, 03:59:41 pm
Not lekka, sorry to hear. Makes me embarrased to give the KTM guys so much Kark
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Biesie on October 17, 2007, 04:02:18 pm
Damn Davy ..."dis nou 'n kakke"  :(... all of the best ...
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: LuckyStriker on October 17, 2007, 04:09:43 pm
Very sorry to hear Davey
a sad incidence

hope you have better luck with the next bike
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 17, 2007, 04:16:49 pm
I heard about this issue a few days ago, what makes me the moer in is BMW KNOW about this problem and are doing FARKALL about it. WHEN they have a cure for the software glitch, (Whoever meets Bill Gates, please moer him for me!) they will have a recall, until then they hope not too many will fail. Strangely enough, this is NOT an engine problem, it is a SOFTWARE problem. IMO they should have installed last years software on ALL the units made after a certain date until this problem is cured, are they?

I still love my 1150 GSA, but the Citrus Conversion is calling.......
BMW's halo is slipping.......

Davy, hang on a bit before you tell them to stick their 1200 where the sun don't shine, check if they can give you a NEW BIKE with OLD software until they sort their kark out.
IMO they should replace you entire bike, you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Poffmuis on October 17, 2007, 04:35:56 pm
eish, hope they get you sorted  :-[
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Highlander on October 17, 2007, 05:29:30 pm
shaait this is bad, i would've cried
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Eisbein on October 17, 2007, 05:46:24 pm
shaait this is bad, i would've cried

+1
Especially after that amount of money spent and the fact that the bike has died on you a 2nd time.

I mean one of the reasons I would spend the money on something brand new is to think that it is actually going to be reliable.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Mikedabike on October 17, 2007, 06:10:12 pm
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 17, 2007, 06:19:52 pm
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D

Ok, I stand corrected, but when is BMW actually going to fix this problem? This is just plain NOT ACCEPTABLE! I have always been a staunch BMW guy, but this type of crap, including the kark discs, is just not on!
If I'VE heard about this piston failure problem because of crappy software, why is not being URGENTLY addressed by BMW?
Are they doing the 'disc' thing and burying their heads in the sand, hoping it will 'go away'?

PS, I would not want a 'rebuilt' motor, even if the casings are original!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 17, 2007, 06:23:58 pm
No I will not have the engine fixed....they agreed to ship a new one complete in the box..."  .... in the next 3 weeks or so!  "  Boy we gonna have to get a few things straight tomorrow!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 17, 2007, 06:44:13 pm
GIVE THEM KARK DAVY!!!!!!
I too am tiring of the current attitude of the powers that be.

And why 3 weeks? Are they flying it around the world a few times? It CAN be delivered within 48 hours! Aeroplanes are not THAT slow!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 17, 2007, 07:16:24 pm
GIVE THEM KARK DAVY!!!!!!
I too am tiring of the current attitude of the powers that be.

And why 3 weeks? Are they flying it around the world a few times? It CAN be delivered within 48 hours! Aeroplanes are not THAT slow!

i agree with adventurer , if your name was charlie or ewan you would have a new motor yesterday already ...unacceptable this 3 week delay.

So BMW are admitting to 60 out of a 1000 .... :-\   now i would think that the software is the same on all the adv's so why only 60?

Davy, remember one thing, when they change the motor make sure BM change the registration papers as well and do all the bearacracy otherwise you in for another headache somewhere down the road believe me. Insist on a new motor though.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Leo on October 17, 2007, 07:20:40 pm
Not nice too hear.  :o

Makes me wonder why my bike gives me no kark. Mine should also have the latest software, it's a Feb 07 model, but in 33 000 km's I have had no kark what so-ever ;)

Maybe this will be a way for me to get a brand new motor  ::)

So Davy you just klapped it along at 160 plus?  You run it on 95 Super Fast Unleaded Green Juice?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Welsh on October 17, 2007, 07:52:21 pm
Not nice too hear.  :o

Makes me wonder why my bike gives me no kark. Mine should also have the latest software, it's a Feb 07 model, but in 33 000 km's I have had no kark what so-ever ;)

Maybe this will be a way for me to get a brand new motor  ::)

So Davy you just klapped it along at 160 plus?  You run it on 95 Super Fast Unleaded Green Juice?


Good to see you again tonight Leo, but can you not read  ;D ;D it is the 140 to 150 range, not your "cruising speed" the software probably leans it out too much for emission reasons and probably an Altitude issue, who else in the world cruises at this altitude at 140 / 150 except from our guys, remember the turbo diesels from BWM, would love to know if it just a Reef issue, as was the Turbo Diesels?

Welsh
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: gonedown on October 17, 2007, 08:00:32 pm
Not nice too hear.  :o

Makes me wonder why my bike gives me no kark. Mine should also have the latest software, it's a Feb 07 model, but in 33 000 km's I have had no kark what so-ever ;)

Maybe this will be a way for me to get a brand new motor  ::)

So Davy you just klapped it along at 160 plus?  You run it on 95 Super Fast Unleaded Green Juice?

Mine on 21000 and March 07 model - and no problems (touch wood).  Wonder why it only happens to 6%?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: gonedown on October 17, 2007, 08:05:37 pm

...... but can you not read  ;D ;D it is the 140 to 150 range, not your "cruising speed" the software probably leans it out too much for emission reasons and probably an Altitude issue, who else in the world cruises at this altitude at 140 / 150 except from our guys, remember the turbo diesels from BWM, would love to know if it just a Reef issue, as was the Turbo Diesels?

Welsh

Did not originally take much notice of the cruising speed - now obvious why no problems with mine - I don't go faster than 120! ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Plothond on October 17, 2007, 08:08:35 pm
Not nice too hear.  :o

Makes me wonder why my bike gives me no kark. Mine should also have the latest software, it's a Feb 07 model, but in 33 000 km's I have had no kark what so-ever ;)

Maybe this will be a way for me to get a brand new motor  ::)

So Davy you just klapped it along at 160 plus?  You run it on 95 Super Fast Unleaded Green Juice?


Good to see you again tonight Leo, but can you not read  ;D ;D it is the 140 to 150 range, not your "cruising speed" the software probably leans it out too much for emission reasons and probably an Altitude issue, who else in the world cruises at this altitude at 140 / 150 except from our guys, remember the turbo diesels from BWM, would love to know if it just a Reef issue, as was the Turbo Diesels?

Welsh

Interesting you mention the turbo diesels Welsh

I had 3 cars (yes read 3, three, drie) - and only paid for the first one

I had one of the first out and guess what, it karked out after about 2000km.
So BM put a new turbo
It karks out again (this time I get a car to drive as it takes about 3 weeks to fix)
Guess what, it karks out again. This time I have a AVIS car for about 4 weeks (lekker little Mercedes kompressor or something - cannot remember as it was a long time ago)

Now the wife is getting Pi___ed off
So she insists on a NEW car
.... and.....


.. WE GET ONE

Ha. justice is done !!!!

Guess what

....


.... yes you guessed it

It karks as well

So they fix.... bla bla AVIS again..... bla bla .....

Ride a few thousand clicks


Karks  ........ bla bla .... AVIS again ...... bla bla...


Wife throws another wobbly

... and ..... WE GET ANOTHER BRAND NEW OUT OF THE BOX

So we end up paying off a car for 20 months and still end up with a brand new one

BARGAIN

I just love BMW !!!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: The TRANSPORTER on October 17, 2007, 08:10:39 pm
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D

Shit THATS worse who the hell wants an opened up engine after R135k AND 3500kms....stick it up their arse... >:D >:D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: bobnob on October 17, 2007, 08:29:04 pm
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D

Shit THATS worse who the hell wants an opened up engine after R135k AND 3500kms....stick it up their arse... >:D >:D

sorry to hear about your crap!

that just sucks...

that is the one thing on my mind - planning a 6000km round trip for next year and what if my bike craps out in zambia?

with regards to the engine on bmw parts list there is a part number for an entire engine

they will order the entire engine and then just swap it out

and it should not be a problem with regards to the engine number - but if the bike gets coded as a rebuild due to the engine change then they can keep it
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Goose on October 17, 2007, 08:45:10 pm
This is serious - and without a doubt is the type of issue that all potential GSA buyers should be aware of...   >:( before they buy.

I do remember that there are huge issues with the SA Consumer Council.... when a company or manufacturer becomes aware of a serious design problem on a vehicle, they HAVE to recall all those specific models ... just need to find out the "nitty-gritty", as I remember it applies to a fault that could be life-threatening.... like karking while overtaking maybe?  :-[

Here's a cahnge for the newspaper articles then....
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Steady on October 17, 2007, 08:55:06 pm
you will now have a different engine number, making it dodgy to sell in future.
this not quite correct cos they only replace the internals as far as I am aware Adventurer and thus the engine number remains the same....not dodgy at all  ;D  ;D  ;D

Shit THATS worse who the hell wants an opened up engine after R135k AND 3500kms....stick it up their arse... >:D >:D

It's always interesting to read the responses to these threads, and this one is particularly interesting as it highlights a point. We very seldom hear the other side of the story, but in this case, The Transporter has reacted without reading all the posts. BMW have already told Davy that they are going to replace the entire engine with a brand new one from the factory!

Many posts on this forum alone where some members have had endless hassels with dealers of various bikes, here is one where there are no hassles, just getting it sorted with a brand new motor! No doubt that BM are trying to sort the issue out, it has to be cheaper than replacing 6% of all bike engines from a particular batch.

Sorry to hear about your bike Davy, no doubt that you have every right to be thin lipped, I on the other hand am pleased to hear that the manufacturer is not trying to weasel out of their obligation to you and your warranty. If you are not happy with the bike, dump it and get something else, if on the other hand you still feel that it's your dream bike give it a chance. Imagine if everyone that you ever disappointed gave up on you regardless of your efforts to rectify the situation?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 17, 2007, 09:17:33 pm
I agree partly with you Steady, the one problem I have is that is not the first time this has happened, if it was a 'once off' it is not really that serious, but there is a scary history.
As I have previously said, yhis is not mechanically related, the motor is not at fault, it is a software problem.
My question is why do they not re-install 'old' software until they sort out this problem?
They say that only 60 of a batch of 1000 have this problem, then why can they not track those 60 bikes and sort them out? Maybe 60 have popped so far?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Steady on October 17, 2007, 10:01:15 pm
No doubt Adventurer, it's actually a major fu@kup, but what are they to do, recall all bikes with that batch of software and then try and sort it, or try and sort it and then recall? Is it all the bikes from that batch, just the bikes riding at altitude, petrol octane related? I cannot comment as I do not know, but it sounds like bm are aware of the problem and are willing to see the customer right.

At the GSC I rode with Lochlan and asked him about the bash plate issue and Der Vaderland's solution. He did explain that worldwide there is a computer link to the factory, every fault, with every bike is reported to them and they crunch the numbers. Now 6% is a co@kup, no doubt, however the bashplate issue is interesting as elsewhere in the world it is unheard of, so as a percentage of all 1200's produced the bashplate is not a factory problem, it's a rider problem, go round the rock's not over them! That's not what they said by the way, but I think that they are of the opinion that the Saffa's ride the bikes like enduro bikes, which they are not. I have to believe that as a market leader of 1lt dual sport bikes, and by a long way, they did not get there by accident and will stand by the product, it's in their interest to do so. If out of the more than 100 000 bikes produced over the 4 years 6% were shite, bm bikes would have gone the way of the dodo by now. Truth is they have a small percentage of problems and as a percentage they have a small number of problems that they do not sort out under warranty. Fact is nobody logs onto a forum and proclaims xxxxx trouble free km's, I mean, after all that's what you expect. So when it goes south, you get huffed, and quite right too. Hope Davy gets his bike sorted and BM take care of the paper work on the new engine too. I would buy a bike with a new engine, that way you know there has not been a rebuild. I think that my point is, so often you hear of manufacturers trying the soft shoe shuffle, rather than taking it on the chin, in this instance, as I understand it, bm are going to take care of the problem. I know Davy is pissed but I for one am happy to hear it. Imagine spending 125 sticks and you hope the boys will honour the warranty. :o
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 17, 2007, 10:38:48 pm
@ Steady ... I like your responses ... I am really amazed that so many posters are inciting a riot AFTER the dealer already committed to replacing the engine. Now I am astounded to hear he (owner) wants to or is advised to go in there and raise hell ?

Maybe go for a general walk about and be truthful and see how many manufacturers actually stand by their product like BMW does. I am personally aware of a few seriously ABUSED "breakdowns" where BMW just gritted their teeth and fixed the bike without a fuzz.

Just recently I witnessed an incident where a K1200S blew it's motor after it was already out of the warranty period and BMW is replacing the motor under warranty.

From the information I have this problem of the motor blowing on the R1200's is probably linked to the software upgrades that were done to comply with the new EU specs. South Africa is one of the peculiar places on earth where high altitude is not linked to low temperatures. The Highveld is hot as hell and that is contrary to what is the case in Europe and Northern America. This was one of the reasons for the spate of Turbos blowing on the 3 series cars. This is also why BMW recommends that you do not use the TWEAKED Chips from North America ... they make the engines run too lean for the temperatures that we have at high altitude.

I am sure they will get a fix for it soon and in the meantime you could keep an eye on your consumption ... if it suddenly gets really too good to be true then it is time to take the bike in for a decent check-up.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 17, 2007, 10:58:56 pm
Decent comments there Steady!  ;)

No I will not go raise hell Colyn, I need to try and speed up the delivery of the engine though...3 weeks is a long time man!

I must make it very clear that the dealer (especiallhy the salesman Hedley Trevor and the parts manager Neville Louw, a mate of mine) has performed absolutely gallantly in this instance.  Hedley had me updated on the potential problem within one hour after I reported the issue and a breakdown on site even quicker.  They agreed to pay my own recovery back to base etc. etc.

I am really ticked off but if I put the emotions to the side, the dealer is trying to sort me out asap.  I need to get my head around the issues like having two major failure on a 6 week old bike and the non gaurantee for future similar failures.  I am also not keep on additives and shit to be added and managed into the tank. . .

I have an early morning sitdown with them tomorrow and will let you know the outcome . . .
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 17, 2007, 11:33:57 pm
Good for you Davy ... trust me ... I have empathy with your emotions but on the other hand ... we are dealing with plastic and metal here and things can go wrong. The most important part is the fact that the brand and the dealer is not backing away from the issue.

I have a suspicion that the 3 weeks could be due to the fact that BMW is trying to resolve the underlying issue but then again ... that K1200S engine was also quoted 3 weeks delivery ... that might be the cycle of their shipping.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Dirtybill on October 18, 2007, 06:13:37 am
I had a tough day yesterday which left me completely disillusioned! 

As I mentioned elsewhere on the site, my new 1200GSA's fuelpump failed at 1000kms leaving me stranded in traffic . . .
It was duly replaced by the agent the next day and all was well again.

I was on a long trip yesterday.  Riding along in pure pliss thru thunderstorms and open veld, I noticed a ''flat spot'' in acceleration around the 140-150km/h mark.  Over that speed it pulled lik an ox all the way further into illegal speeds.

Sitting lekker at around 160 there was a complete loss of power and engine cut-out with all the accompanying backfire and pinging type noises . . .  I somehow recovered the engine and continued to ride on.  I was in a remote part of the country with no cellphone reception and not a lot of options . . .

Then about 50-60kms further, there was a moer of a bang and the whole farking motor just clonked out!  It was completely in its moer . . . Blown to pieces . . .

I had reception by then and called my friendly BMW dealer (they really are!) and they promptly organized a rescue team.  After a while they called me back and told me that research shows that about 60 of the 1000 GSA's sold in SA has suffered the same fate because of a software glitch in the electronic engine management sytem!  Apparently the system pre or post ignite around 14-150 in 6th gear and then eventually you have an engine failure.

We agreed in principle to have a new engine fitted with all the new warranties in place again but firmly stated that they do not gaurentee it will not happen again!  They are still working on the software and some kind of additive in the fuel will help for the time being!

I have a meeting with them tomorrow and will basically tell them to fix and take back the bike.  It has now done 3400kms but I have lost faith in it sadly!  It has now officially a worse track record than all of the 9 Land Rovers I owned in my life!  Obviously I cannot find the words to describe my total sadness and feeling of loss,  but in the end, I cannot continue on this path with a 160k investment!



Don't feel bad.  I had similar incidents with my 05 950 KTM Adventure.   KTM North America would go completely silent when I said I wanted a different bike.  At least BMW will replace the motor.  KTM North America will not.   The most money I have ever spent on a new purchase motorcyle and the worst reliability record and close to the worst customer service I've ever experienced.

KTM will never get another cent out of me.  They're advertising over here is complete fraud and I dare them to try and sue me over that statement, because I'm not the only who has sold their Kost To Much after owning it for a short while.

My Husqvarna TE610 after a year of some brutal riding has not missed a beat.  Best purchase ever made by BMW, but mine still says "manufactured by MV Augusta" on it!!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 18, 2007, 06:27:08 am
We can say what ever we want here, it has been pointed out to me by the powers that be at BMW that 'we should not believe anything on the internet, it is hearsay and has not been verified by BMW'!
I understand that BMW is doing it's best to fix Davy's bike, but FFS what other choice do they have? The bike is still under warranty and has around 3000km on the clock, it would be total lunacy for ANY company to try and dodge this issue.
I also understand that this is only a small percentage problem, but when you are part of that small percentage it is a MASSIVE problem.
I still maintain that BMW Germany should build their bikes tough enough to satisfy SA requirements, otherwise they should go the Triumph Tiger route and make the GS a STREET bike.(Now now, KTM riders... ;D ;D) If they continually advertise the GS as a DUAL Sport bike, then FFS make it tough enough to do the job.
That crap about the bash plate, go around a rock instead of over it, well then why fit a bash plate in the first place? At least call it a 'stone deflecter' not a 'bash plate'. Why not save more weight and leave it off completely?
Excuse my rantings, but BMW is NOT my favourite marque at the moment!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 07:18:35 am
Quote
I understand that BMW is doing it's best to fix Davy's bike, but FFS what other choice do they have? The bike is still under warranty and has around 3000km on the clock, it would be total lunacy for ANY company to try and dodge this issue.

You will be surprised ... how about ... "We will send this back to Germany and let the factory tell us what went wrong."

As for the lunacy part ... I have heard some real ridiculous reasons why claims have not be honoured from other manufacturers.

BTW ... I have never seen an advert where BMW claimed the 1200 to be a TRAIL bike.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: gonedown on October 18, 2007, 07:22:53 am
Just thought of something reading the latest posts.  People are talking about the problem being at high altitude/speed combination issue and wondered about the altitude in Windhoek.

Checked on mapsource - around 1600m.  Shiiiitt - learned something - didn't realise they same as Joburg!! :o

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 18, 2007, 07:32:25 am
Quote
I understand that BMW is doing it's best to fix Davy's bike, but FFS what other choice do they have? The bike is still under warranty and has around 3000km on the clock, it would be total lunacy for ANY company to try and dodge this issue.



BTW ... I have never seen an advert where BMW claimed the 1200 to be a TRAIL bike.

No, but they do claim it is an ADVENTURE bike. ;D
And they do throw things like the GS Challenge at it, including Red Route, which is tough. They don't say that 1200 GSAs cannot go on Red Route because they are not tough enough....
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 18, 2007, 07:40:14 am
Blikems sad, I hope you can regain some faith in the bike and enjoy it for what you wanted to use it.

It is concerning to hear when engines go, so much more when they go into self destruct mode. The biggest thing I am worried about is when that the bike is out of warranty, sure they might like your face and help you when it's juuust out of warranty, but after that, you're screwed big time.

I haven't heard of other bike engines that self destruct, sure have to be, even the 6% mentioned is way to many.

Colyn.
Quote
As for the lunacy part ... I have heard some real ridiculous reasons why claims have not be honoured from other manufacturers

These kind of statements aren't good for anything. And like Adventurer said, I would expect them to replace the motor in warranty time, nothing less.

The bike is a R1200GS.......Gelande/Strasse or something, by implication a trail bike.

PS, I recall seeing some pics of 1200 motors where the cylinders broke into small pieces, might be the same what happened here? Davy can you post some pics of the motor if they allow you to, or when they take it apart.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: LostDOG on October 18, 2007, 07:49:32 am
No doubt Adventurer, it's actually a major fu@kup, but what are they to do, recall all bikes with that batch of software and then try and sort it, or try and sort it and then recall? Is it all the bikes from that batch, just the bikes riding at altitude, petrol octane related? I cannot comment as I do not know, but it sounds like bm are aware of the problem and are willing to see the customer right.

At the GSC I rode with Lochlan and asked him about the bash plate issue and Der Vaderland's solution. He did explain that worldwide there is a computer link to the factory, every fault, with every bike is reported to them and they crunch the numbers. Now 6% is a co@kup, no doubt, however the bashplate issue is interesting as elsewhere in the world it is unheard of, so as a percentage of all 1200's produced the bashplate is not a factory problem, it's a rider problem, go round the rock's not over them! That's not what they said by the way, but I think that they are of the opinion that the Saffa's ride the bikes like enduro bikes, which they are not. I have to believe that as a market leader of 1lt dual sport bikes, and by a long way, they did not get there by accident and will stand by the product, it's in their interest to do so. If out of the more than 100 000 bikes produced over the 4 years 6% were shite, bm bikes would have gone the way of the dodo by now. Truth is they have a small percentage of problems and as a percentage they have a small number of problems that they do not sort out under warranty. Fact is nobody logs onto a forum and proclaims xxxxx trouble free km's, I mean, after all that's what you expect. So when it goes south, you get huffed, and quite right too. Hope Davy gets his bike sorted and BM take care of the paper work on the new engine too. I would buy a bike with a new engine, that way you know there has not been a rebuild. I think that my point is, so often you hear of manufacturers trying the soft shoe shuffle, rather than taking it on the chin, in this instance, as I understand it, bm are going to take care of the problem. I know Davy is pissed but I for one am happy to hear it. Imagine spending 125 sticks and you hope the boys will honour the warranty. :o

+1

A thread started on OC, where instead of telling everyone about your bike's faults, tell everyone about your faultless ones - they FAR outweigh the ones with faults.

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 18, 2007, 07:57:59 am
Easy for us all to say how wonderfull about the bikes that don't break. Wait until it happen to you.

Make no mistake a small percentage means bugger all, if it cost you money when a engine blows, Davy is lucky it's in warranty time, let's have this discussion when it's out and will cost you big money for a new motor.

This is not just a small problem, this can heppen to my bike next!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ama ride ride on October 18, 2007, 08:00:00 am
Lost dog

I agree with you that the good bikes outnumber the bad bikes. But for the owners of the bad bikes it leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth.

In the last four years I rode more than 100 000km on 3 different bikes and so far the only ,mechanical or electronic problems I had was a petrol pump failure (AT) and main headlight bulb blew twice (12GS and 12GSA)

I keep asking myself. Am I just lucky? :-\
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: LostDOG on October 18, 2007, 08:04:27 am
Lost dog

I agree with you that the good bikes outnumber the bad bikes. But for the owners of the bad bikes it leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth.

In the last four years I rode more than 100 000km on 3 different bikes and so far the only ,mechanical or electronic problems I had was a petrol pump failure (AT) and main headlight bulb blew twice (12GS and 12GSA)

I keep asking myself. Am I just lucky? :-\

I am not saying that the problems should not be aired - they should and they should be dealt with by the manufacturer. BUT, the "desperation/worry" that you get when you read the headings of threads on Orange Crush is a bit dissilutioning - surely they are not that BAD!

In all process manufacturing there is a possibility that a "bad batch" occurs. Any reasonable QC plan will allow for this. So, the low percentages explained above are "acceptable" in accordance with good practice - thus, what BMW are doing for Davy is excellent - they are managing the problem.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 08:13:37 am
The reality is this ... if the engine is replaced and this is a FLAW of then the replacement should also blow again in 3000 kms ... and again rplaced under warranty and so on ... if you motor is replaced your warranty starts from scratch on that motor.

Last when I looked around 600 bikes did the GSC and I am sure more than 6 made it back home.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: edgy on October 18, 2007, 08:14:02 am
From all i hear BMW service is really great,so i reckon they would sort you,give them another chance-too many people only have good to say........or buy 3 KLR"s
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: bobnob on October 18, 2007, 08:49:03 am
at the end of the day its all mechanical devices and things do go wrong

luck of the draw - thats all it is...
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: The TRANSPORTER on October 18, 2007, 09:30:21 am
Well must agree 100% with ADV and Michnus,dont advertise something what it aint.

All of us love our beemers and Steady i did read the WHOLE thread and was quoting Mike there stating IF they were fixing and opening it up would you like that on your bike????

The bottom line is recalling and fixing the problem coz like Michnus were saying it could happen to your and my bike..... ;) ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ratel on October 18, 2007, 09:30:35 am
Lost dog

I agree with you that the good bikes outnumber the bad bikes. But for the owners of the bad bikes it leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth.

In the last four years I rode more than 100 000km on 3 different bikes and so far the only ,mechanical or electronic problems I had was a petrol pump failure (AT) and main headlight bulb blew twice (12GS and 12GSA)

I keep asking myself. Am I just lucky? :-\

You used up all your luck for the bikes and now there is nothing left to dodge the KK's >:D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ratel on October 18, 2007, 09:31:53 am
I wonder if Corkscrew's 1200 GS had the same problem when his engine blew up ???
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 18, 2007, 09:58:56 am
Has anybody taken fuel quality into consideration? The book recommends 95RON,  a lot of times we can only get 93RON out in the gammadoolas. And is the fuel grade really what is claimed to be on the pump sticker?
I have the same concerns with diesel for my 2 LR Td5's, but in over 220000km with both motors...so far so good.
My buddy took his Fireblade for some dyno tuning/mapping, and the issue of fuel grade/quality and pre-ignition problems leading to engine failure came up.
Can this be a problem for the Boxer motor as well? Add altitude and extreme heat...
But then BMW have got the resources to research and pre-empt these problems here in Southern Africa.
Lachlan, was hast Du dazu zusagen?
How about a tech/research fred on this forum?
My boxer had a miss between 4K and 5K rpm, returning from Amersfort. It turned out to be a dud spark-plug. Now she runs happy again.

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 10:01:02 am
You are very right about the fuel ratings ... many guys go for the low octane to save a few cents ... there has been a thread about fuel ratings somewhere.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 10:07:56 am
If I pay that amount of money - I would demand a new bike not a new engin, period.

In so far as the 'go around not over the rock' argument goes - I would respond by saying 'mount a bash-plate to the frame not the sump casing- stupid'.

I see more orange on the horizon....

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 18, 2007, 10:11:19 am
If I pay that amount of money - I would demand a new bike not a new engin, period.

In so far as the 'go around not over the rock' argument goes - I would respond by saying 'mount a bash-plate to the frame not the sump casing- stupid'.

I see more orange on the horizon....

H

+1 or 'FARKING A'!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 18, 2007, 10:43:35 am
Quote
If I pay that amount of money - I would demand a new bike not a new engin, period

The engine broke, not the frame and tyres and rims and steering and lights and clocks and forks and so on.
 ;D

Bla bla bla, jada jada jada, BMW sort him that's cool, they HAVE to, not if they feel like it. He got a warranty with the bike.



Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 18, 2007, 10:45:26 am
If I pay that amount of money - I would demand a new bike not a new engin, period.

In so far as the 'go around not over the rock' argument goes - I would respond by saying 'mount a bash-plate to the frame not the sump casing- stupid'.

I see more orange on the horizon....

H


+1 or 'FARKING A'!

Ya, no-well-fine...I lined up to go 'round da rock, but da blerry rock jumped out in front, demmit. Or was it a warthog?  :clown:
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 10:54:19 am
Quote
engine broke, not the frame and tyres and rims and steering and lights and clocks and forks and so on

Thats where i differ - brand new bike, major mechanical failure.  In my eyes as the customer the bike failed, not the engin.....

Maybe they must start thinking from the customer's perspective instead of their fragile ego perspective - especially after spending so much money on the 'brand' and the livestyle?

I can expect it from Kawa - R40k for a bike - one is not paying much for service - but R140k...... ::)

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Eisbein on October 18, 2007, 11:09:31 am
Has anybody taken fuel quality into consideration? The book recommends 95RON,  a lot of times we can only get 93RON out in the gammadoolas. And is the fuel grade really what is claimed to be on the pump sticker?
I have the same concerns with diesel for my 2 LR Td5's, but in over 220000km with both motors...so far so good.
My buddy took his Fireblade for some dyno tuning/mapping, and the issue of fuel grade/quality and pre-ignition problems leading to engine failure came up.
Can this be a problem for the Boxer motor as well? Add altitude and extreme heat...
But then BMW have got the resources to research and pre-empt these problems here in Southern Africa.
Lachlan, was hast Du dazu zusagen?
How about a tech/research fred on this forum?
My boxer had a miss between 4K and 5K rpm, returning from Amersfort. It turned out to be a dud spark-plug. Now she runs happy again.



AmaRideRide posted recently about his bike inadvertently getting a petrol/diesel mixture on a trip - in his case the the 1200's software (that's supposed to protect the engine from preigniting) probably saved his engine.

I think the whole point of that software was to compensate for 'off the beaten track' and grammadoelas fuel situations.

It should work for you (like in Ama's case) and not against you (like in Davy's) case.

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: l3oK on October 18, 2007, 11:10:41 am
I actually think Davy received great customer service, other than organizing him a lap dance on his way home after they picked him up, I don't think they could have done any more. They could have said, "Ok bring it tomorrow and we'll see if we can fix your engine, we'll be kind and give you a discount on the labor as  this is not included in the warranty".  ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 18, 2007, 11:13:38 am
Point taken

One rand or R140k makes no difference, Poepoljack got the same treatment when his KLR motor went, they did not replace was'nt necessary, but Kawa aproved major repairs in one day.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 18, 2007, 11:25:26 am
Has anybody taken fuel quality into consideration? The book recommends 95RON,  a lot of times we can only get 93RON out in the gammadoolas. And is the fuel grade really what is claimed to be on the pump sticker?
I have the same concerns with diesel for my 2 LR Td5's, but in over 220000km with both motors...so far so good.
My buddy took his Fireblade for some dyno tuning/mapping, and the issue of fuel grade/quality and pre-ignition problems leading to engine failure came up.
Can this be a problem for the Boxer motor as well? Add altitude and extreme heat...
But then BMW have got the resources to research and pre-empt these problems here in Southern Africa.
Lachlan, was hast Du dazu zusagen?
How about a tech/research fred on this forum?
My boxer had a miss between 4K and 5K rpm, returning from Amersfort. It turned out to be a dud spark-plug. Now she runs happy again.



AmaRideRide posted recently about his bike inadvertently getting a petrol/diesel mixture on a trip - in his case the the 1200's software (that's supposed to protect the engine from preigniting) probably saved his engine.

I think the whole point of that software was to compensate for 'off the beaten track' and grammadoelas fuel situations.

It should work for you (like in Ama's case) and not against you (like in Davy's) case.



That makes me feel a little better, Eisbein.
And thanx for correcting my spelling; grammadoelas.  8)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ama ride ride on October 18, 2007, 11:32:48 am
Lost dog

I agree with you that the good bikes outnumber the bad bikes. But for the owners of the bad bikes it leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth.

In the last four years I rode more than 100 000km on 3 different bikes and so far the only ,mechanical or electronic problems I had was a petrol pump failure (AT) and main headlight bulb blew twice (12GS and 12GSA)

I keep asking myself. Am I just lucky? :-\

You used up all your luck for the bikes and now there is nothing left to dodge the KK's >:D

Ratel, the buggers seem to follow me everywhere..... ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 18, 2007, 11:37:15 am
Steady I must comment on your remarks,  because I hate the percentage argument, I agree 100% in principal with all that you say, however the problem with your argument is, and I have had the exact same response from a couple of German Manufactures when they start to quote the failure stats as infantisimal compared with the number produced.
When you look at the number of failures that have happened in SA as a total compared to the number sold here, the percentage figure is high, so for them to say it is an acceptable failure rate is not correct, we have an unacceptable failure rate here in SA.

I was told by a huge German engine manufacturer that their failure rate on a particular engine we had huge problems with was 0.0025% which they believed was completely acceptable, when I pointed out we owned 10 of these units which had all failed which was a 100% failure rate and to us was completely unacceptable, it kind of changes the perspective, this is exactly the senario we have here.
Unfortunately the Germans in particular, have a habit of believing their engineering is invinsible and it takes a lot of convinsing otherwise, but I am pleased to see that in this case there is no argument about changing the engine, however the core problem has not been solved.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on October 18, 2007, 11:40:25 am
.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 11:41:05 am
Quote
One rand or R140k makes no difference
- i disagree - you pay for service, its included in the R140k, less so in the R40k Kawa.

The service I would expect is:  'Oh f@k Davy, this is not suppose to happen after 3000kms - this will greatly inconvenience you - rather take a brand-new bike in its place, that way we shall stay true to our motto of "uber-alles" customer service'

Ito protecting your motor agains shit in the fuel - don't think so, there's only shit in the fuel in Africa and we already established they don't build bikes for SA conditions (bashplate???).  I thought a filter and cloth keep shit out your tank in Africa.

They are the brand that put themselves on the throne of 'best quality and service' and charge for it accordingly - they must set the standard regarding this shit - can't talk the talk, collect the money but give lip service when you need to act on your talk - thats skelm.  I expect much better cutomer satisfaction from BM as from Kawa - because I paid more.  I would also expect better service when buying a RollsRoyce as when buying a Opel - obviously.

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on October 18, 2007, 12:04:13 pm
.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on October 18, 2007, 12:07:47 pm
.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 18, 2007, 12:11:30 pm
Das ist alles eine grosse Scheisse, ja?  :cussing:
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 12:12:18 pm
@ KiLRoy ... this thread is about a R 1200 that failed ... you keep on comparing Kawa with BMW and then quote a price of R40k against R140K

I am just curious ... how do you get to that comparison ... Kawa do not even have a 1200 cc Bike that can compare to the GS 1200 ?

Another point ... yep filters and rags can CLEAN your fuel but can do nothing for those instances where you are faced with a sub-standard fuel quality.

You paragraph that includes the word "skelm" is a bit on the rough side ... I am not aware of an instance where BMW did not Walk the Walk.

The August AMID figures tells an interesting story ...

In the 500cc+ Category where the Kawasaki bikes are competing ... Kawasaki is the second most popular seller ... second to BMW F650 GS and Dakar ... both bikes are a lot more expensive than Kawasaki yet the YTD figures are ...

BMW = 533 Units
Kawa = 496 Units

A narrow margin in some respects but yet a good Margin if you consider the price difference plus the fact that the BMW's in this class is getting long in the tooth. The recent advent of the new 650's could have an effect on the unit sales in the new month.

In the 800cc+ Class where Kawa is not a competitor the stats are as follows ...

BMW = 952 Units
KTM = 115 Units

Here it is interesting to note that the BMW Bikes are outselling the second place contender almost at a ratio of 10:1.

Now if all the things mentioned by you were true it can be said that there are a lot of uninformed buyers out in the market.

I can understand frustrations when mechanical failures occurs but to go into full attack mode against a brand and a dealer network that has a strong reputation for looking after their customers is not the right thing to do.

The constant reference to the Bashplate is also confusing me ... facts are that a vast number of riders completed all the routes on the recent GSC and even on the RED routes riders completed the routes WITHOUT wrecking the bash plates. Someone else mentioned in another thread that many of the bashplate failures can be contributed to rider conduct and I do agree with that view.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 12:32:11 pm
Its simple really Colyn.

Do you think you get your filter coffee and grand showrooms at BMW for free, no its included in the price to pay.  The price you pay for a BM includes a much higher % of 'service', brand-related and 'livestyle' cost than that of a R40k KLR.  Therefore one would expect the service to be much better.  If one promises this service, and the client is paying for it (in the price) but get the same service than a much cheaper brand ie not getting the service one promised, then that party is skelm.  If this was the case in this instance, i don't know, I just stated the underlying economics.

If BM acted on all there promises - I don't know, never own one, probably never will.  Ask Adventurer and others - they owned a few.

ITO the sub-standard fuel - my main point is that Europe don't have this problem so why make something for Africa, if what the guys are saying about the bashplate is true - they don't design bikes for Africa - now this don't make sense or what?

H

Ps.  Did you think BMW Road assistance is free???   If not how is it funded????
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 12:44:46 pm
Nope ... I pay for that Roadside assist ... as a matter of fact my Warranty is for TWO years and my Roadside assist is for THREE years ... all well documented in my paperwork.

Yes the frills are part of the cost but to many it is a great comfort to walk into a Showroom while dressed in your stylish fancy suit and your wife on her 1000.00 a pair designer sneekers without fear of getting grubbed or slip on a oil puddle. We are willing to pay for that front end.

We are also willing to pay for the Brand Promotion and to me it is good to see how they spend some of the bucks they take from me again on ME ... It is a choice I make but on the backend ... if things do go wrong with my BMW I expect to see that backend and frontend machine kick into gear and resolve my issue. I have been driving BMW's since 1980 and riding Kawasakis ... in 2005 I bought my first BMW bike ... a K1200 GT ... took me less than 100 kms in the saddle to question myself for taking so long to do it. SInce then I have purchased 5 more bikes from BMW and not in one single instance have the BMW network failed to deliver what they promised.

So let's discuss the issues when they happen but let us also give credit where credit is due.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: JacquesM on October 18, 2007, 01:01:05 pm
Eish. I'm hoping to collect my Adv on Monday.

Does anybody know where one whispers in it's ear to find out if it sees itself as in the 94, or maybe in the 6?

Will be handy to know beforehand.....
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 18, 2007, 01:21:27 pm
Eish. I'm hoping to collect my Adv on Monday.

Does anybody know where one whispers in it's ear to find out if it sees itself as in the 94, or maybe in the 6?

Will be handy to know beforehand.....

Have faith in your decision, JacquesM. She'll be allright, mate.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: JacquesM on October 18, 2007, 01:33:22 pm
Hey swaer, I need faith in the bike.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 18, 2007, 01:36:41 pm
Hey swaer, I need faith in the bike.

Why?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 18, 2007, 02:11:46 pm
Interesting to note that BMW makes an average of only 10K a bike, not too much in my opinion when you look at what they offer at their dealerships as a whole.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Steady on October 18, 2007, 02:20:39 pm
Eish. I'm hoping to collect my Adv on Monday.

Does anybody know where one whispers in it's ear to find out if it sees itself as in the 94, or maybe in the 6?

Will be handy to know beforehand.....


JacquesM I have one and I love it, more important to me is that my missus likes riding on the back with me. If you get half the amount of enjoyment out of your bike that I get out of mine you are going to be one real happy chappy.

Enjoy, hope to see you on the road sometime.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 18, 2007, 02:35:04 pm
OK,

I'm just back from the BM workshop.  The engine is completely shot.  I will place some gory pictures tomorrow!

Where we stand now:

I new engine will be fitted without delay, probably in the next week or two three
The electronic engine management system ran the engine too lean in a certain rev-range (140-150kmp in 6th gear) and that made the piston disintegrate with obvious consequences to the rest of the engine.
The local dealer is painfully aware of the 60 year old rider who lost 3 engines to exactly the same cause recently. . .
No, they cannot give me assurance that the same will not happen to the new engine, even with the octane booster additive . .
They are prepared to keep on fitting new engines till they have the shit sorted out!

Despite the helpfulness and assistance received from the local guys, I have told them that I prefer to return the bike to them and buy one again in a year's time when they have the software sorted out.  They are prepared to do that and we are now doing the calculations.

What is a bit scary is that that bike will be on the floor as a demo/secondhand unit before Christmas this year....!  I had to wait 5 month for it and they are sure they are gonna make somebody's day by having a bike available rather quick.  I am being treated well but I feel a bit sick about the issue as a whole. . .

 
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Uiltjie on October 18, 2007, 02:50:52 pm
I think they should give you a demo bike for the 5 months, and then still give you the new bike at the current price.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Eisbein on October 18, 2007, 02:56:22 pm
BeeEm is certainly coming to the party on this.

But can't they sort the software out ?

Them not leaving you and accommodating you is very good.

But I would be suspicious about trusting the new engine until they said that its sorted.

Thumbsup to the BeeEm garage. They can only do what headoffice let them do.
Thumbs down to the BM R&D guys :(



Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 02:58:05 pm
Hmmm ... so what Bike are you going to buy now ?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: FortyZA on October 18, 2007, 03:05:20 pm
I would be happy with a new engine replacement on my bike with 37000km ...it is a bargain ...new warranties etc.

But on a new bike with 3000km and less than one year old ...I would expect a new bike.
You have spent lots of money put together according to standards ...now the engine is replaced without any guarantee that those standards are met ...most likely with a bolt, screw or clip missing.

I work for a German Car Manufacturer and the warranty on all product are worded more or less the same and it goes something like this:

If a part is replaced under warranty (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) in month 2 or a 2 year warranty, then that part carries the remainder of the 2 years.  If a (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) is replaced on the last week of the 2 year warranty, that part is warrantied for the week until the 2 year initial contract / warranty is up.  If a customer pay in for the part, it carries a 2 year warranty on that part.

So Davys engine will be covered for just under 2 years (+/- 6 tp 9 weeks) depending on when he get his bike back. That is fact, not fiction. As any dealer.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Grootseun on October 18, 2007, 03:07:50 pm
are they replacing the EMS as well or just the engine?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Pom on October 18, 2007, 03:34:46 pm
I would be happy with a new engine replacement on my bike with 37000km ...it is a bargain ...new warranties etc.

But on a new bike with 3000km and less than one year old ...I would expect a new bike.
You have spent lots of money put together according to standards ...now the engine is replaced without any guarantee that those standards are met ...most likely with a bolt, screw or clip missing.

I work for a German Car Manufacturer and the warranty on all product are worded more or less the same and it goes something like this:

If a part is replaced under warranty (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) in month 2 or a 2 year warranty, then that part carries the remainder of the 2 years.  If a (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) is replaced on the last week of the 2 year warranty, that part is warrantied for the week until the 2 year initial contract / warranty is up.  If a customer pay in for the part, it carries a 2 year warranty on that part.

So Davys engine will be covered for just under 2 years (+/- 6 tp 9 weeks) depending on when he get his bike back. That is fact, not fiction. As any dealer.


Wow, that's a new one I've never heard before (I am not doubting the validity of the statement) but if an engine fails after 103 weeks of the 2 year warranty, despite the fact a new unit is fitted the warranty on the new engine is only valid for 7 days. Sounds like a general cop out to me.

 
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: bobnob on October 18, 2007, 03:38:37 pm
I would be happy with a new engine replacement on my bike with 37000km ...it is a bargain ...new warranties etc.

But on a new bike with 3000km and less than one year old ...I would expect a new bike.
You have spent lots of money put together according to standards ...now the engine is replaced without any guarantee that those standards are met ...most likely with a bolt, screw or clip missing.

I work for a German Car Manufacturer and the warranty on all product are worded more or less the same and it goes something like this:

If a part is replaced under warranty (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) in month 2 or a 2 year warranty, then that part carries the remainder of the 2 years.  If a (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) is replaced on the last week of the 2 year warranty, that part is warrantied for the week until the 2 year initial contract / warranty is up.  If a customer pay in for the part, it carries a 2 year warranty on that part.

So Davys engine will be covered for just under 2 years (+/- 6 tp 9 weeks) depending on when he get his bike back. That is fact, not fiction. As any dealer.


Wow, that's a new one I've never heard before (I am not doubting the validity of the statement) but if an engine fails after 103 weeks of the 2 year warranty, despite the fact a new unit is fitted the warranty on the new engine is only valid for 7 days. Sounds like a general cop out to me.

 

nope its true...

and in a certain respect i can understand it

lets put it this way

2 weeks before the warranty runs out i will just rev the motor in neutral until it pops!

then get a new motor with a new 2 year warranty - then 2 weeks before that warranty runs out i will just rev it....

you get the picture...
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: mcfinnigan on October 18, 2007, 03:52:26 pm
bob - most manufacturer warranties explicitly exclude warranty claims caused by abuse.

I'm pretty sure revving an engine to destruction will leave some pretty clear evidence when the engine is disassembled.

McF
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: MrBig on October 18, 2007, 04:07:51 pm
I think BobNob just tried to make a point.

Fact is - you've paid for a 2 year warranty. Why should you get more?
 
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 04:11:28 pm
Quote
BeeEm is certainly coming to the party on this.

But can't they sort the software out ?

Them not leaving you and accommodating you is very good

I don't know how they are 'coming to the party' - they are just doing the normal/minimum.

1. New bike
2. Engin popped
3. Known software cause

What must they do - OR what can they do.  Jeez

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: FortyZA on October 18, 2007, 04:14:02 pm
McF,

Normally it can be seen but some people have ways and means to cover up some tracks (mechanical) but when it comes to the electronic's side, they get caught out. What also is taken into account is the way the customer behaves when doing the claim which is taken into account. If you shout and rant and rave, verbally abuse the person, the harder they fight back.  Sometimes people are open and upfront and the manufacturer tend to look the otherway and it helps.

The thing that one needs to bear in mind is, are you willing to take a chance or be causght out and have to carry the cost yourself?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 04:20:43 pm
Quote
f things do go wrong with my BMW I expect to see that backend and frontend machine kick into gear and resolve my issue

Well either that front-end or that back-end hide a front tele-lever from LS earlier this year when he needed it most in Botswana.  How many did they have in SA ---  10/ 6 /3 1????   noo  0, niks, nul ---why 'because they don't break - yeah...  Great frontend that - for f -sakes its a working part, carry stock???

Unfortunately the real BM - lovers and users have to pay the high prices of the posers.  I pity those guys.  Wait another month - the BM guys are in for a surprise with the insurance scheme too - the companies don't want to have BMs on their schemes because of the high cost of parts, the 'closeness' of the network (read price manupilation) and since they replace parts unnecessarily - fact is the BMs will put any scheme at risk.

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 04:31:33 pm
Good thing I am Insured with the BMW Insurance package.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 18, 2007, 04:45:46 pm
Hmmm ... so what Bike are you going to buy now ?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Shoot me Colyn but . . .

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1235551/04a.jpg)
Just look at that big smile!!

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1251268/e77.jpg)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 04:48:43 pm
Good thing indeed - maybe they just raised the GS riders insurance by between 20 and 50% the past year - the roadbikes like yours is safe from abuse.

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: LuckyStriker on October 18, 2007, 04:50:25 pm
No no no

If you buy a Harley, please get the Nightster:

(http://www.cycleworld.com/assets/image/2007/Q1/012920072026246629.jpg)

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=272

the best looking stock Harley I have ever seen!

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 18, 2007, 04:52:31 pm
I wanna term a new phrase - 'Brand Blindless' - its when one is complete blind for any issue whatsoever of one's brand - there is absolutely nothing wrong with my brand

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on October 18, 2007, 04:55:44 pm
.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 18, 2007, 04:57:08 pm
I agree LS...a stunner....but I also like...

(http://onfinite.com/libraries/1251270/0ff.jpg)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 18, 2007, 05:42:21 pm
Well Davy if you are now looking at something like that ... why not look at at one of these ...

(http://www.tripwired.co.za/JCS_Bucket/TW_Shots/Bikes/jcs_Bikes_023.jpg)

I can assure you this bike runs for days on end without a stutter and there is no pinging and overheating etc. in it.

Just go and ride one ... ride it out of the city and onto the open road ... take some twisties.

Looks like you are in Namibia ... man the LT will eat those long open roads day after day after day.

You are disappointed and I can understand it and now you are making a big change to your biking thing ... do not miss out on this option.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 18, 2007, 06:01:59 pm
Guy's please keep this topic related.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Welsh on October 18, 2007, 07:08:43 pm
I would be happy with a new engine replacement on my bike with 37000km ...it is a bargain ...new warranties etc.

But on a new bike with 3000km and less than one year old ...I would expect a new bike.
You have spent lots of money put together according to standards ...now the engine is replaced without any guarantee that those standards are met ...most likely with a bolt, screw or clip missing.

I work for a German Car Manufacturer and the warranty on all product are worded more or less the same and it goes something like this:

If a part is replaced under warranty (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) in month 2 or a 2 year warranty, then that part carries the remainder of the 2 years.  If a (engine, gearbox, brake caliper or wherever) is replaced on the last week of the 2 year warranty, that part is warrantied for the week until the 2 year initial contract / warranty is up.  If a customer pay in for the part, it carries a 2 year warranty on that part.

So Davys engine will be covered for just under 2 years (+/- 6 tp 9 weeks) depending on when he get his bike back. That is fact, not fiction. As any dealer.

Quite right, this is absolutely the norm in industry, regard it as an insurance you paid for (as extended warranties are) when it is over it is over. Only if you contribute does it roll over.

Welsh   
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Welsh on October 18, 2007, 09:34:31 pm
OK had a web perusal.

See nothing significant, no patern, trust me the overseas boys scream.

I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: FortyZA on October 19, 2007, 07:48:03 am
Welsh,
I agree
I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.
My 1200 GS Adv has the same, when I hear it pinging, I twist the gas open and the noise goes away because the ECU enriches the fuel mix.  Sometimes I just vary the throttle so the ECU does not get into a norm where it leans it off but I can assure you BMW will pay if my engine destroys itself.

BMW, wake up and get this matter in hand, what is taking you so long.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 19, 2007, 08:00:21 am
Welsh,
I agree
I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.
My 1200 GS Adv has the same, when I hear it pinging, I twist the gas open and the noise goes away because the ECU enriches the fuel mix.  Sometimes I just vary the throttle so the ECU does not get into a norm where it leans it off but I can assure you BMW will pay if my engine destroys itself.

BMW, wake up and get this matter in hand, what is taking you so long.

and when this hapens when the bike is out of warranty?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Steady on October 19, 2007, 08:06:10 am
OK had a web perusal.

See nothing significant, no patern, trust me the overseas boys scream.

I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.

I think you have a point Welsh, altitude and fuel quality. I always try and get 95RON but it is seldom available from anywhere outside of a big city Engen. If this is the case it will not be easily remedied by someone in Europe at sea level!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 19, 2007, 08:28:48 am
OK had a web perusal.

See nothing significant, no patern, trust me the overseas boys scream.

I am more convinced, altitude steady throttle (our roads) at a specific speed with poor fuel quality.

I think you have a point Welsh, altitude and fuel quality. I always try and get 95RON but it is seldom available from anywhere outside of a big city Engen. If this is the case it will not be easily remedied by someone in Europe at sea level!

Then they've got to have the balls and take the flippen bikes off the market here until they have a solution covering the asses of the poors sods in the 5,6% bracket!!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 08:39:00 am
Davy ... I can assure you they are working on it at full speed ... the problem is that as it has been said here ... this is not happening elsewhere and obviously the factory cannot test over in Germany.

Fact is that they are aware of the problem and they are replacing the engines if it happens. If this had the potential to bankrupt them I am sure they would have recalled all the bikes ... don't you think so?

What I am curious about is this ... is this only happening to the GS's or is the RT's also doing it.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: bobnob on October 19, 2007, 08:41:35 am
Davy ... I can assure you they are working on it at full speed ... the problem is that as it has been said here ... this is not happening elsewhere and obviously the factory cannot test over in Germany.

Fact is that they are aware of the problem and they are replacing the engines if it happens. If this had the potential to bankrupt them I am sure they would have recalled all the bikes ... don't you think so?

What I am curious about is this ... is this only happening to the GS's or is the RT's also doing it.

if i remember correctly guy on the thinkbike forum had his RT go boom at 47000km and bmw replaced the motor as well
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 19, 2007, 09:26:03 am
Davy ... I can assure you they are working on it at full speed ... the problem is that as it has been said here ... this is not happening elsewhere and obviously the factory cannot test over in Germany.

Fact is that they are aware of the problem and they are replacing the engines if it happens. If this had the potential to bankrupt them I am sure they would have recalled all the bikes ... don't you think so?

What I am curious about is this ... is this only happening to the GS's or is the RT's also doing it.

I see Colyn is trying to keep this fred as objective as possible. Can the moderator not get a survey going, which addresses all R1200 boxer motor users on this forum and try as objectively as possible, to gather some stats on the reliabilty issue?

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 19, 2007, 09:42:08 am
Wonder what will happen if someone goes down after an engin failure - will BMW then be father to their children?

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: bobnob on October 19, 2007, 09:56:37 am
Wonder what will happen if someone goes down after an engin failure - will BMW then be father to their children?

H

yes and a klr, a ducati, suzuki, etc has never seized...

its a machine it can and it will break

its just a matter of when...
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 19, 2007, 10:44:03 am
Difference between a known risk and an 'act of God' - big difference, one is avoidable the other not - take the blinkers off.

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: bobnob on October 19, 2007, 11:33:14 am
Difference between a known risk and an 'act of God' - big difference, one is avoidable the other not - take the blinkers off.

H

like the doohickey?

sure very few doohickeys caused a seized motor but it has happened...

kawasaki did not do a recall on all the klr's to fix the problem

actually after years and years i dont even think that kawasaki every confirmed that there was a problem

it all comes down to luck of the draw

i know lots and lots of people who's R1200's give them no crap

know of 4 people that had a motor blown

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 11:42:07 am
Wonder what will happen if someone goes down after an engin failure - will BMW then be father to their children?

H

From your post I have to wonder ... did he go down on a Kawa or what ?

I am also not so sure that BMW would want to father children at random ... and also the widow would surely have to agree to carry the child :)

With BMW selected or proposed as the father I am wondering what brand would the mother be ? I did a search but could not find a single instance of a successful cross-breeding experiment :):)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on October 19, 2007, 11:46:10 am
Yes its like the doo - but a doo failure will not (hopefully  ;D) cause a immediate engin failure at 3000kms AND Kawa doesn't claim to be the 'best4x4xfar' ito customer service and quality.  But I take your point.

I just wonder if someone has to die (god forbid) because of a engin failure on a GS due to a known problem, what the legal implications for BM would be?

H

Ps - Colyn the father is actually Rotax - ask Dakar owners  ;D ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 12:00:23 pm
@ KiLRoy ... I understand your concern but from what I have heard not one of the failures lead to a crash or am I mistaken ?

The potential danger of a catastrophic failure is on average something that is more prominent in the mind of the sportsbike riders because they do tend to "smeer" the bikes a bit more. Having said that I am also a bit nervous when I have to think of a engine blowing at high speed ... that is why I am curious if this failure is only present in the GS's ... and yes I know many guys do "smeer" their GS's as well ;)

However ... not one single motor out in the world can ever claim to be 100% failproof and I don't care what make it is.

So yes we need to question these things.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 01:15:59 pm
Ok I have confirmation ... this issue might affect all 1200 boxer engines and not only GS's :(
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 19, 2007, 02:40:05 pm
This is how the inside of an engine should NOT look like!  Makes me nauseas . . .

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DavidvB/head.jpg)

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/DavidvB/piston.jpg)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 02:45:04 pm
Oh mama ... that does not look good ... wow ... nee man Davy ek kan verstaan dat jy erg hartseer voel. Die is defnitief a ernstige probleem.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: CrazyPorra on October 19, 2007, 04:15:55 pm
Ohh, definetly not an @ (Africa Twin), it would still be purring away happely. O0
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on October 19, 2007, 04:37:09 pm
It looks like the valves and piston met each other, not a hole in the piston as one would expect of lean running?

3 of the four valves seem to have broken stems?

So did all that happen from detonation?

A last comment, BMW in Namibia seems to be prepared to protect the brand's image more than BMW SA, or not? Just thinking about the hassles Adventurer is having. Maybe zee german konnektion from Windhoek to zee Deutschland is helping...
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 05:06:44 pm
From what I can understand ... the issue is that the piston crown breaks off and then that loose part shatters the valves. This is what I know. There are two schools of thought ...

1. The Software is making the bike run lean and leads to overheating and the piston failure.
2. There is a material problem with the pistons.

My personal feeling is that 1 is the most probable one but then again I am not a Technician.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 19, 2007, 05:29:34 pm
Colyn,

According to the fundi's here your two deductions are both correct.  The leaniness? of the combustion mixture caused by the software causes a "weakness" in the piston.  Heating it up to a point where it actually starts to break up instead of melting or burning holes into the piston.  If you look at the picture of the piston, you can see at the 7 o'clock position where it started to break up . . .  But hey, if the clever Jerman engineers can't even fix it in a year, how will we fix it sommer here?! ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: JacquesM on October 19, 2007, 10:11:34 pm
I was led to believe that Lifestyle is the head office of our scooters. So this afternoon I walked in there and thought I'll try and get some peace of mind about the Adventure I'm collecting tomorrow. Somehow strange, but it kind of annoys me if I try and communicate a deep concern about something one spends that money on and the guy actually goes out of his way to make a fool of you. (This is obviously only my perception.)

"I've never heard about what you're talking about. I suggest you speak to the dealer concerned. (Quickly fly to Windhoek with my questions?). I've been riding these bikes ever since 2002, and not a single problem".

The newest Motorrad newsletter contains a question of Bertus De Jager with what seems like the same problem. Maybe my friend at Lifestyle doesn't read the newsletter? He certainly doesn't read this forum.

A constant 130-140km/h: that's exacly my riding style.

It is absolutely no consolation to me that BMW will replace the (complete) engine if the same happens to my bike as what happened to Davy's. Fortunely the chances are "small": 6%!!!!

I so wished for different treatment at BMW, but I'm only a customer.......

I'm angry. Maybe the next experiment must be citrus.

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 10:29:39 pm
You have the right to feel angry ... this is really not good.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 19, 2007, 11:00:17 pm
JacquesM, get over it, one uninformed individual in a dealership doesn't make up the company.

Rather spend your time here, ask questions, you will get better information from owners, you know, the people actually owning the bikes. ;)



Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 19, 2007, 11:04:31 pm
Strange how some guys at BMW say 'it is the first time we have heard about this'......seems like they are suffering fom Alzheimer‚??s Disease.....
Another favourite seems to be 'Don't believe what you read on the internet, it is hearsay'......
It is even stranger that I, as a non BMW employee, know of FIVE 1200GS's that have blown motors, apparently due to running lean.....
I saw one today with a dropped valve, SAW IT, not pictures on the internet, SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES, just under 10K on the clock. the valve was buried in the piston, exhaust valve in this case.
Luckily Peaches' 1200 has made it to 30K, no hassles besides the kark discs!

Michnus, if I was dropping R140K I would be asking LOTS of questions, but to BMW people with GOOD memories.... ;D ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 11:31:52 pm
You are right Adventurer ... and I know for the fact that the Powers in Charge are very much aware of the problem and is working on it. Salesmen are salesmen and will always be salesmen.

What is also true is that this problem started at a specific place in the production and the bikes prior to that is not affected.

I have been talking to Skillie a lot about this and we speculated a lot ... the Germans do not believe it is the Software and as such the local guys are bound to that theory although they agree that the motors are showing typical failures that can be associated to running lean.

Now we are wondering ... we are not bound by EU emmission controls ... why not rig two bikes with Power Commanders and map them properly for our conditions and take two stock bikes and put riders on the four and say ... "Ok go and get 10K on the bikes ... don't stop before that."  After such trip strip and inspect and then present the Germans with the results.

Maybe the tweaking to comply with the new EU regulations has taken the boxer into the twilight zone ... many has predicted this a long time ago. So with us outside the EU maybe a R1200 GS-ZA is the way out ?

Just my opinion and openly speculating ... I have no way to know how ridiculous my statements might be :)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 19, 2007, 11:35:16 pm
Ooops I forget ... yes I saw that little snippet at the bottom of the newsletter and wondered about that ... I came to the conclusion that this is so way out from what could be expected to be contained in a Newsletter that I concluded that this could be a subtle fishing trip to get more facts from owners.

Once again it is me ... just guessing. ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 20, 2007, 07:51:16 am
Either way, BMW needs to get it's sh!t together VERY FAST!
At the moment they are losing so much face because of their 'ostrich' attitude, and KTM is laughing all the way to the bank. Good luck to them.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 20, 2007, 08:01:19 am
Yep I agree with you on this.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: FortyZA on October 20, 2007, 12:38:42 pm
Colyn, Adv.
My 2005 GS and my 2006 Adv both suffer from the pinging problem.
I discussed this with one of MB engineers in Germany and he is of the opinion that the knock sensors either do not pick up the pinging / knocking in time or they are positioned in the wrong place.  I feel that it is a question of both.

Went out last night in the rain from Pta to Kempton and back and that problem is not there when the temp is cold, only when it is hot. 

I also thought that the little snippet at the bottom of the newletter was a little fishy because why did BMW not answer that question themselves. Maybe they are trying to test the water and get comments from people.

just my 2c worth
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 20, 2007, 01:15:29 pm
Yep I agree ... that snippet looks a lot like a fishing expedition :)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: gonedown on October 20, 2007, 02:30:42 pm
If it was one of the sales people I think I might know who it is - high and mighty attitude - myself and DotP bought our 650's from him and his attitude after that sucked - will never deal with him again.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on October 20, 2007, 05:17:25 pm
Yep I agree ... that snippet looks a lot like a fishing expedition :)

What does it say?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 20, 2007, 06:30:57 pm
Quote
1200 GS Overheating and Knocking

I bought a new R1200 GS at the beginning of August and after the first 1000 km service, drove down to Durban from Bloem for the weekend. But halfway through the journey the bike started to get hot and around 5000 rpm started to knock and subsequently misfires. I think it is the lower octane inland that allows the engine to misfire. If it overheats or knocks it will certainly damage the cylinder heads.

Has anyone also encountered such problems? Any solutions?

Please email me at bdj@centlec.co.za
- Bertus de Jager
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 21, 2007, 10:24:52 am
ok a few questions although i dont ride a 12 but a 1150 adv  ;)
why does this not afect the older bikes and if you hear it ping
and then ride it so that it doesnt would that be possible ?
and would it still self destruct ?
and lastly how do your pipes and filter affect all of this ,cos logic says
more air in more air out and same amount of fuel =lean running motor  :o
adventurer your input regarding your bike would be helpful to me as i believe its pretty much what im running and you live in the land of self destructing engines  O0
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on October 21, 2007, 10:37:55 am
ok a few questions although i dont ride a 12 but a 1150 adv  ;)
why does this not afect the older bikes and if you hear it ping
and then ride it so that it doesnt would that be possible ?
and would it still self destruct ?
and lastly how do your pipes and filter affect all of this ,cos logic says
more air in more air out and same amount of fuel =lean running motor  :o
adventurer your input regarding your bike would be helpful to me as i believe its pretty much what im running and you live in the land of self destructing engines  O0

Maybe just put dirt on the filter to make the mixture richer ;D

I don't think the 1150s are affected, they surge too much, never running constant anyway ;D

Have they checked the airflow sensors on the 1200s, surely it has such a thing being fuel injected and all?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 21, 2007, 11:15:27 am
This problem affects the latest versions of the motor ... the ones that have be tweaked to meet the latest EU emissions Controls.

I am wondering if fitting a Power Commander that is mapped properly for our conditions is not the answer ?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 21, 2007, 11:33:56 am
This problem affects the latest versions of the motor ... the ones that have be tweaked to meet the latest EU emissions Controls.

I am wondering if fitting a Power Commander that is mapped properly for our conditions is not the answer ?
well it should solve the lean running issues and therefore exploding engine but i have a feeling to integrate it with the canbus system must be a bit of a mare
i doubt the faderland would have made a plug for the power commander to plug into (wrench
feel free to add any helpful info you might have on the subject)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 21, 2007, 01:07:48 pm
Scribble, we still ride the BEST Beemers ever made, none of this fandangled wharawhara, if our motors pink/ping, we know we are in too low a gear, knock it down one and steek it, 's-all.... ;D ;D
These 1200 motors kark in the pomp when steeking along at around 150km/h, they run lean at that speed and wind up burying valves in pistons. I saw one that had been opened up on Friday, very very nasty......
But it appears to be small batch that came in recently, the older ones don't have this problem at all, we need not have widespread panic amongst the 1200 guys, I asked about Peaches' bike's software at the agent, I was told that if the bike pinks under load, I must bring it in for a software change. I asked because it had a service recently and I wanted to know if the software had been upgraded. I could not get a straight answer, was just asked to ride the bike and listen to the motor.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 21, 2007, 01:18:58 pm
Scribble, we still ride the BEST Beemers ever made, none of this fandangled wharawhara, if our motors pink/ping, we know we are in too low a gear, knock it down one and steek it, 's-all.... ;D ;D
These 1200 motors kark in the pomp when steeking along at around 150km/h, they run lean at that speed and wind up burying valves in pistons. I saw one that had been opened up on Friday, very very nasty......
But it appears to be small batch that came in recently, the older ones don't have this problem at all, we need not have widespread panic amongst the 1200 guys, I asked about Peaches' bike's software at the agent, I was told that if the bike pinks under load, I must bring it in for a software change. I asked because it had a service recently and I wanted to know if the software had been upgraded. I could not get a straight answer, was just asked to ride the bike and listen to the motor.

ah so the older ones u need worry about the shaft an brakes but no chance of the motor imploding   ;D

as a matter of interest , if they updated the s/w then surely you would be on the version of s/w affected? an shirley it can be checked just be plugging in the pc to check the version?

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 21, 2007, 01:29:12 pm
You guy's just speculate, there's double the amount of 1200 made than the 1150, so if you look at the overall trouble it might not be that high, between myself and MJ we have close to 170 000km on the 4, 1200's we own ranging from 04-06, the last long run was form Upinton 2up to EL at 170km/h average didn't miss a beat.

You can also allow the 1200 rev's to drop to below 1000rpm and then power it up again out of technical terrain. Strangely MJ's one  older 1200 takes the abuse better than the new one, same with mine.

As to the "our African conditions" don't get to excited there's Americans and Aussies that's just as hard on their bikes and there's altitude as well, we're not so special boy's.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 21, 2007, 01:30:34 pm
Scribble, we still ride the BEST Beemers ever made, none of this fandangled wharawhara, if our motors pink/ping, we know we are in too low a gear, knock it down one and steek it, 's-all.... ;D ;D
These 1200 motors kark in the pomp when steeking along at around 150km/h, they run lean at that speed and wind up burying valves in pistons. I saw one that had been opened up on Friday, very very nasty......
But it appears to be small batch that came in recently, the older ones don't have this problem at all, we need not have widespread panic amongst the 1200 guys, I asked about Peaches' bike's software at the agent, I was told that if the bike pinks under load, I must bring it in for a software change. I asked because it had a service recently and I wanted to know if the software had been upgraded. I could not get a straight answer, was just asked to ride the bike and listen to the motor.

ah so the older ones u need worry about the shaft an brakes but no chance of the motor imploding   ;D

as a matter of interest , if they updated the s/w then surely you would be on the version of s/w affected? an shirley it can be checked just be plugging in the pc to check the version?



It shirley can. Who the fark is 'shirley'? ;D ;D
Luckily you ride a V-Strom, so you need not worry......
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 21, 2007, 01:31:36 pm
bru i agree with you  ;D
 what have you done to yours ito changing the motor from stock,cat,pipe filters and stuff
also the fuel what are you running
i was using unleaded and now have been told that it has other stuff which
if im not wrong is hygroscopic
now thats being smart
 anyway ive seen the amount of crap that comes out of our fuel you would be surprised
 
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 21, 2007, 01:41:38 pm
bru i agree with you  ;D
 what have you done to yours ito changing the motor from stock,cat,pipe filters and stuff
also the fuel what are you running
i was using unleaded and now have been told that it has other stuff which
if im not wrong is hygroscopic
now thats being smart
 anyway ive seen the amount of crap that comes out of our fuel you would be surprised
 

My GSA has a K&N filter, larger air intake, Laser cannister and Remus Y-piece. I run it on unleaded if available, otherwise LRP, either octane, 93 or 95, whichever pump I stop at. Basically I feed it any petrol, not fussy.
Our scoots can run on 50% diesel if there is not enough petrol available, it will run kark and smoke a bit, but it will still go. The newer 1200 is a lot more 'fussy' because of the advanced engine management, too advanced IMO, this is Africa. 8) 8)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 21, 2007, 01:46:22 pm
bru i agree with you  ;D
 what have you done to yours ito changing the motor from stock,cat,pipe filters and stuff
also the fuel what are you running
i was using unleaded and now have been told that it has other stuff which
if im not wrong is hygroscopic
now thats being smart
 anyway ive seen the amount of crap that comes out of our fuel you would be surprised
 
My GSA has a K&N filter, larger air intake, Laser cannister and Remus Y-piece. I run it on unleaded if available, otherwise LRP, either octane, 93 or 95, whichever pump I stop at. Basically I feed it any petrol, not fussy.
Our scoots can run on 50% diesel if there is not enough petrol available, it will run kark and smoke a bit, but it will still go. The newer 1200 is a lot more 'fussy' because of the advanced engine management, too advanced IMO, this is Africa. 8) 8)
so effectively you flowing more air than i am and at altitude that means (the air is less dense than at the coast ??)meaning the mix you run is richer or leaner ??????????
dammit this made a bit more sense before i i actually started writing now im very confused

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 21, 2007, 01:55:04 pm
Guys,

Personally I don't wanna kakenkerm about the fact that this happened to me anymore.  I can't change that. 

So, with all due respect to all the other manufacturers out there; I had a quick look at the Kawas, Hondas and KTMs etc. out there during this week and came to the conclusion that if it is not my Adv, then it is nothing at all!

Which brings me to the final decision: Am I keeping the bike and try to handle the apparent risk of a newer model 1200 engine?  How do I do that? 

I am really gonna miss my bike if I decide not to keep it!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 21, 2007, 02:11:59 pm
Davy get the bike if it goes pop get another engine
they really are great bikes apart from the small problems ;D
they should figure out a solution at some point 
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 21, 2007, 03:12:53 pm
bru i agree with you  ;D
 what have you done to yours ito changing the motor from stock,cat,pipe filters and stuff
also the fuel what are you running
i was using unleaded and now have been told that it has other stuff which
if im not wrong is hygroscopic
now thats being smart
 anyway ive seen the amount of crap that comes out of our fuel you would be surprised
 
My GSA has a K&N filter, larger air intake, Laser cannister and Remus Y-piece. I run it on unleaded if available, otherwise LRP, either octane, 93 or 95, whichever pump I stop at. Basically I feed it any petrol, not fussy.
Our scoots can run on 50% diesel if there is not enough petrol available, it will run kark and smoke a bit, but it will still go. The newer 1200 is a lot more 'fussy' because of the advanced engine management, too advanced IMO, this is Africa. 8) 8)
so effectively you flowing more air than i am and at altitude that means (the air is less dense than at the coast ??)meaning the mix you run is richer or leaner ??????????
dammit this made a bit more sense before i i actually started writing now im very confused



Me too, I just ride the farking thing, if it dies I'll fix it..... ;D ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 21, 2007, 04:42:13 pm
@ Michinus ... the altitude is the same but from what I have been told by BMW it is the temperature thing that is the issue ... in most other environments the temperature drops as the altitude climbs ... we have the nasty situation that it is very dry and very hot on our high altitude spots and it is unfortunately the same place where the largest congregation of the machines are.

@ Adventurer ... yep you are right ... it is small number of the overall quantity that has the problem and it is the newest ones.

I have asked them specifically about the upgrading of the software because we noticed that SKillie's 1200 suddenly became very economical after it's last service. I was assured that they did not retrofit the new software.

You are also right ... there is no need for widespread panic amongst the owners of older versions.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on October 21, 2007, 05:30:13 pm
You guy's just speculate, there's double the amount of 1200 made than the 1150, so if you look at the overall trouble it might not be that high, between myself and MJ we have close to 170 000km on the 4, 1200's we own ranging from 04-06, the last long run was form Upinton 2up to EL at 170km/h average didn't miss a beat.


Yes, but the problem is between 140 and 150?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 21, 2007, 06:00:45 pm
You guy's just speculate, there's double the amount of 1200 made than the 1150, so if you look at the overall trouble it might not be that high, between myself and MJ we have close to 170 000km on the 4, 1200's we own ranging from 04-06, the last long run was form Upinton 2up to EL at 170km/h average didn't miss a beat.


Yes, but the problem is between 140 and 150?

Easy, either ride at 130 or 160+ ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 21, 2007, 06:11:09 pm
@ Michinus ... the altitude is the same but from what I have been told by BMW it is the temperature thing that is the issue ... in most other environments the temperature drops as the altitude climbs ... we have the nasty situation that it is very dry and very hot on our high altitude spots and it is unfortunately the same place where the largest congregation of the machines are.

@ Adventurer ... yep you are right ... it is small number of the overall quantity that has the problem and it is the newest ones.

I have asked them specifically about the upgrading of the software because we noticed that SKillie's 1200 suddenly became very economical after it's last service. I was assured that they did not retrofit the new software.

You are also right ... there is no need for widespread panic amongst the owners of older versions.
i am of the understanding that when they service the bike it is plugged in to do the service and at the same time the software is upgraded whether you want to or not
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 21, 2007, 06:20:43 pm
@ Michinus ... the altitude is the same but from what I have been told by BMW it is the temperature thing that is the issue ... in most other environments the temperature drops as the altitude climbs ... we have the nasty situation that it is very dry and very hot on our high altitude spots and it is unfortunately the same place where the largest congregation of the machines are.

@ Adventurer ... yep you are right ... it is small number of the overall quantity that has the problem and it is the newest ones.

I have asked them specifically about the upgrading of the software because we noticed that SKillie's 1200 suddenly became very economical after it's last service. I was assured that they did not retrofit the new software.

You are also right ... there is no need for widespread panic amongst the owners of older versions.
i am of the understanding that when they service the bike it is plugged in to do the service and at the same time the software is upgraded whether you want to or not

No, they need to physically tell the system to udgrade. (As in press 'enter', not verbally... ;D ;D)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 21, 2007, 07:24:57 pm
bru i agree with you  ;D
 what have you done to yours ito changing the motor from stock,cat,pipe filters and stuff
also the fuel what are you running
i was using unleaded and now have been told that it has other stuff which
if im not wrong is hygroscopic
now thats being smart
 anyway ive seen the amount of crap that comes out of our fuel you would be surprised
 

My GSA has a K&N filter, larger air intake, Laser cannister and Remus Y-piece. I run it on unleaded if available, otherwise LRP, either octane, 93 or 95, whichever pump I stop at. Basically I feed it any petrol, not fussy.
Our scoots can run on 50% diesel if there is not enough petrol available, it will run kark and smoke a bit, but it will still go. The newer 1200 is a lot more 'fussy' because of the advanced engine management, too advanced IMO, this is Africa. 8) 8)
have you done anything to change the fueling  or fuel map ala ccp mod or take the plug out completely  as in http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28293&highlight=code+plug
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 21, 2007, 10:25:19 pm
bru i agree with you  ;D
 what have you done to yours ito changing the motor from stock,cat,pipe filters and stuff
also the fuel what are you running
i was using unleaded and now have been told that it has other stuff which
if im not wrong is hygroscopic
now thats being smart
 anyway ive seen the amount of crap that comes out of our fuel you would be surprised
 

No, cat plug is standard.

My GSA has a K&N filter, larger air intake, Laser cannister and Remus Y-piece. I run it on unleaded if available, otherwise LRP, either octane, 93 or 95, whichever pump I stop at. Basically I feed it any petrol, not fussy.
Our scoots can run on 50% diesel if there is not enough petrol available, it will run kark and smoke a bit, but it will still go. The newer 1200 is a lot more 'fussy' because of the advanced engine management, too advanced IMO, this is Africa. 8) 8)
have you done anything to change the fueling  or fuel map ala ccp mod or take the plug out completely  as in http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28293&highlight=code+plug
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ama ride ride on October 22, 2007, 07:00:17 am
Scribble, we still ride the BEST Beemers ever made, none of this fandangled wharawhara, if our motors pink/ping, we know we are in too low a gear, knock it down one and steek it, 's-all.... ;D ;D
These 1200 motors kark in the pomp when steeking along at around 150km/h, they run lean at that speed and wind up burying valves in pistons. I saw one that had been opened up on Friday, very very nasty......
But it appears to be small batch that came in recently, the older ones don't have this problem at all, we need not have widespread panic amongst the 1200 guys, I asked about Peaches' bike's software at the agent, I was told that if the bike pinks under load, I must bring it in for a software change. I asked because it had a service recently and I wanted to know if the software had been upgraded. I could not get a straight answer, was just asked to ride the bike and listen to the motor.

How the fcuk am I going to do this... >:(
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 22, 2007, 07:25:30 am
Scribble, we still ride the BEST Beemers ever made, none of this fandangled wharawhara, if our motors pink/ping, we know we are in too low a gear, knock it down one and steek it, 's-all.... ;D ;D
These 1200 motors kark in the pomp when steeking along at around 150km/h, they run lean at that speed and wind up burying valves in pistons. I saw one that had been opened up on Friday, very very nasty......
But it appears to be small batch that came in recently, the older ones don't have this problem at all, we need not have widespread panic amongst the 1200 guys, I asked about Peaches' bike's software at the agent, I was told that if the bike pinks under load, I must bring it in for a software change. I asked because it had a service recently and I wanted to know if the software had been upgraded. I could not get a straight answer, was just asked to ride the bike and listen to the motor.

How the fcuk am I going to do this... >:(

Sorry Ama.... ;D ;D ;D Bring the bike to me, I'll listen to it for you. :)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ama ride ride on October 22, 2007, 07:32:34 am
Adv

Thank you my kind sir......but that statement is aimed at BMW. If they tell me just to listen to the motor and bring it in for a software update if it starts to ping......I'll hit em with the Human rights commision and Equity court.  ;D

By the way. Pinging is extremely difficult to feel. Missfire etc very easy.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Obi -Wan on October 22, 2007, 09:29:57 am
Scribble

RE Pinging on the 1150.

On the 1150 - and I stress that this is what has worked for me.

- I run the standard silencer with a y-piece.
- Standard Air Filter
- The 1150 CAT Code Plug is yellow. This has beeen replaced with the beige CAT CP
   from the 1100 gs.  This bambboozles the computer setting and more fuel is injected
   across the rev range.
- Make sure your valve adjustment is right.
- Make sure your Throttle bodies are set evenly.
- Where possibble I run on 95 plus Octane.

Despite all the above on a very hot Highveld day pinging is possible. I then add a little Octane Booster to each tank of fuel which I have found to be the best solution.  During the winter months I have no problems at all.

Adventurer can probably confirm , but I believe the 1150 Adventure has no cat code plug at all and this will allow the richest setting possible.

 


 y
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 22, 2007, 11:29:56 am
Just back from my friendly BM dealer. . .

Seems like there is no complete engine available but only subs.  >:(

Told them I am not interested and it now seems that with a spot of luck they might consider giving me a new bike!  ;D ;D

Told them I will nurse it until they find the problem and a solution for it.  ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 22, 2007, 02:22:36 pm
Howzit Davy, insist on a NEW bike!!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 22, 2007, 02:43:11 pm
Just back from my friendly BM dealer. . .

Seems like there is no complete engine available but only subs.  >:(

Told them I am not interested and it now seems that with a spot of luck they might consider giving me a new bike!  ;D ;D

Told them I will nurse it until they find the problem and a solution for it.  ;)

Cool, push them hard, tell them you WILL NOT wait until they find a complete engine, then they HAVE to give you a new scoot.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 22, 2007, 06:51:18 pm
what are you now supposed to ride whilst you are waiting or does that not factor in to this at all
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 22, 2007, 07:29:30 pm
Scribble

RE Pinging on the 1150.

On the 1150 - and I stress that this is what has worked for me.

- I run the standard silencer with a y-piece.
- Standard Air Filter
- The 1150 CAT Code Plug is yellow. This has beeen replaced with the beige CAT CP
   from the 1100 gs.  This bambboozles the computer setting and more fuel is injected
   across the rev range.
- Make sure your valve adjustment is right.
- Make sure your Throttle bodies are set evenly.
- Where possibble I run on 95 plus Octane.

Despite all the above on a very hot Highveld day pinging is possible. I then add a little Octane Booster to each tank of fuel which I have found to be the best solution.  During the winter months I have no problems at all.

Adventurer can probably confirm , but I believe the 1150 Adventure has no cat code plug at all and this will allow the richest setting possible.

 


 y
obi wan thanks for the reply
as i understand the 1150 gsa has 8 or 9 different maps all controlled by the ccp.
or rather which ever one is put in
the 9 pins in the socket are connected i think in twos or threes and removing the plug create an open circiut which i think is what you are referring to this then takes a sensor out of the  equation and then allows the richest map possible yes/no??
diferent configurations of the 9 pins will give maps good for the config that you are running
ie stock pipe,cat and filter or aftermarket pipe or filter and y piece or any combo of those
not really sure about all of this just what i can make out from the guys at ukgser

why does the bike ping when pulling a too low gear sometimes and when you change down it stops     
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 22, 2007, 08:02:47 pm
Sorry for the long story, but below is my letter as posted on BMW Motorrad Discussion Forum.  I was a bit despondent when it was not posted but pleasantly surprised today when I got a reply from them.  With this attitude I am sure they will put a lot of minds to rest, including my own! ;D

 
Quote
I ordered a white 1200GSA earlier this year in anticipation to fulfill a long standing dream.  It now appears to be a sort of nightmare rather than a sweet dream!
>
> I took delivery of one of the most beautiful bikes on the road today early in September.  I was as proud as a first-time father and the personnel at Danric Motors Windhoek (BMW Dealers) made every effort to further enhance this experience.  Hedley Trevor especially was very precise and helpful during the whole process.  I am not a typical biker but more a sucker for the perceived (in my opinion) affluent lifestyle presented by BMW Motorrad and its products.  As such I was prepared to part with a huge sum of my bank managers pocket in acquiring this bike. 

Man, is that bike the most rewarding open-, dirtroad experience you can have . . ?!  I was fortunate enough to take a sosl trip over the
mountains and thru the desert to Swakopmund over one weekend and the experience will be with me for a long time.
>
Then one nite riding home after work it died in the middle of traffic with me.  The oddmeter said 1000km on the spot.  No amount of coaxing could get it back to life again.  BMW locally was quick to recover the bike and replaced a faulty fuelpump the next morning even when they had nothing in stock.  Suffice to say, they made a plan and I was a happy rider again.
>
About 5 weeks later this last Monday, I rode up country for about 450kms to visit one of my worksites.  Again it was an exhilarating experience
even if it was rather hot at around 36 degrees Celsius.  On the way, I made a mental note to return the bike to the dealership when I am back since I felt a slight "flatspot" in acceleration around 140-150km/h in 6th gear.
>
I did my work on site and saddled up for the short way down to the office again on Tuesday afternoon.  Sitting at around 160km/h there was an
instant and complete loss of power followed by some backfiring of the engine and it started to run ruff.  It regain composure to some extent and I continued to ride in the hope to make the next town where I will have cellphone reception to holler for help.
>
Well it did not last and after a while I heard the engine disintegrate and shut down.  i did make it into cellphone reception though and promptly
call the dealer for assistance.
>
As before, Hedley was very helpful and within minutes he had a recovery operation in action.  He called me back and although his honesty was
admirable, the whole issue turned bleak from there on wards.  Apparently this is a known problem that some of the engines fail because of a
faulty software issue.  (In fact I was told mine was number 59 for this year . . .!)  Faulty in the sense that the software tries to achieve the optimum emission regulation and as such destruct the engine.  I am no engineer but taking the heat, altitude, relative low octane fuel and emission parameters into consideration, the software tunes the enige to lean and this causes piston failure (over heat) with obvious onsequences.
>
The dealer is obviously replacing the engine but admit that there is no solution for the problem yet and a similar mishap might take place
again.  I am unfortunately not happy with such an approach and have subsequently asked them to take the bike back.  They agreed to that and we will hopefully resolve this in the next week.
>
The whole experience left me with confusing emotions . . .  First of all I am so incredibly sad to not have a beautiful Adventure anymore.  Secondly I am grateful for the assistance from the BMW dealer in Windhoek.  Lastly I am a bit baffled that BMW continue to sell these bikes with this apparent shortcoming since Feb this year.  I am told that only about 5.7% of the bikes sold have this problem and as such it is acceptable.  Like me who now falls inside that 5.7%, my devastation is 100% and as such not acceptable!

Answer from BMW Motorrad SA
Quote
Dear Mr Van Breda,

Thank you for your mail forwarded to me via our web master and for the opportunity to respond.

First of all we must apologise for the inconvenience caused by the failure of your motorcycle.

We are very aware of the problem encountered by yourself with your motorcycle and please be assured that we find the situation totally unacceptable and have escalated the problem to the highest possible level in Germany.

The reason we have continued to sell the Boxer Engine models is that the problem has occurred in a very small numbers of these units and it is not clearly definable as to the production dates within which the problem occurs.

We are totally reliant on the technical department of Germany to supply a suitable solution, a task that they have been hard at work with for the past weeks.
Further correspondence with Germany this morning confirmed that the software update is currently in the final test fazes and will be available to SA in the very near future.

Again we must apologise for the situation and please be assured, we will not stop till the situation has been resolved.

Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Best regards


Rob Holder
National After Sales Manager
Motorcycles
BMW Motorrad South Africa
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: gonedown on October 22, 2007, 08:12:06 pm
Sounds like a standard letter that makes no commitment at all - no timing as to when the new software will be available and whether all 'newish' bikes be recalled for the upgrade??

At least it admits to being aware of a problem existing. :o
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 22, 2007, 08:18:50 pm
Ja well . . .

I am sort of desperate here to get my darn bike back, so any news along this line is good news.  Now if I can convince the dealer here to give me a new bike, I'll be a happy chappy! ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 22, 2007, 08:32:01 pm
That reply impresses me no end.....At least you were not told it is damaged because of 'wear and tear'........
Give em hell Davey.....
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 22, 2007, 08:36:53 pm
Ja I don't think it is a standard reply at all.  One of my mates is one of the owners of the dealership and I have not even considered talking to him about this issue yet.  I feel we are getting along quite well this side to be honest! 

I hope we will have a final positive desicion on the replacement of the complete bike tomorrow. 8)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 22, 2007, 08:47:00 pm
what are you now supposed to ride whilst you are waiting or does that not factor in to this at all

Scribble,

I don't want to jeopordize my chances on getting a new bike or screwing up the good relationship with the okes at the dealer by being unnecessary hardegat whilst I am not dependant on the bike, So I am prepared to let that one slide . . . . and above all it is raining in Windhoek anyway!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 22, 2007, 08:50:17 pm
Inspite of some negative comments made about Rob Holder's response I am of the opinion that the answer is short and to the point.

No ducking of the issue.
No impossible commitments.
No twisting of the facts.
No spin on the sollution.

Now something else ...

A man that I trust on technical issues and respect for his brutal honesty did the following ...

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

Zero problems with the bike ... and as another piece of info ... it was not ONE bike ... there were 5 in the group ... same engines same conversions.

Ok so what does that tell me ... it tells me the theory about the bad software is true. It also tells me that the fix for this problem is not impossible and gives credibility to Rob Holder's reference to the upcoming update.

So no need to panic and go and fit pipes and PC's. Just hang in there for a while and get the right fix from BMW.

Consider this ... this 1200 engine represents a major part of their business here in ZA ... do you for one moment think that they will place all of that at risk and just sit back and do nothing while the problem kills their reputation ... I think not.

@ Davy ... I am confident you are in good hands and the outcome for you will be good ... please do not allow people to incite you to do crazy stuff that will have no positive prospects apart from stirring up emotions.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 22, 2007, 08:56:42 pm
what are you now supposed to ride whilst you are waiting or does that not factor in to this at all

Scribble,

I don't want to jeopordize my chances on getting a new bike or screwing up the good relationship with the okes at the dealer by being unnecessary hardegat whilst I am not dependant on the bike, So I am prepared to let that one slide . . . . and above all it is raining in Windhoek anyway!
rain in Nam must be cos of the letter ;) but i get your point
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 22, 2007, 09:05:43 pm
No Colyn,

The emotions was sort of left under the Witgatboom that day the engine popped!  I am sure we will win and I will get the bike back purring like a cat! ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Welsh on October 22, 2007, 09:54:39 pm
That reply impresses me no end.....At least you were not told it is damaged because of 'wear and tear'........
Give em hell Davey.....

Trust me, I am not a lawyer, but I am well versed in contractual law, that letter is rock solid and impressive. Not sure if I would write the same in their position  :-[ :-[, it is good.

VERY reassuring.

Welsh
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Captain Zef on October 22, 2007, 09:54:47 pm
 :happy1:
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: topbox on October 22, 2007, 10:02:28 pm

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 22, 2007, 10:38:53 pm
I am not exactly sure but will try and find out exactly what was used ...

My point is this ... if a plugin chip resolves the problem BMW will fix it with their software too without needing a chip ... this experiment proofed the suspicion we had that it was purely software and not hardware.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: halfjob on October 23, 2007, 08:20:07 am
hi davy, just out of interest, did the oil temp rise when this happened?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: fruitandveg on October 23, 2007, 08:34:28 am
Hi Davy

Also out of interest did it start to idle a little rough before the motor gave in?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 23, 2007, 09:03:46 am
The oil temp was normal.  I started 100% before the failure after I refueled!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 23, 2007, 09:13:10 am
sorry to buck the trend here, that reply to me is corporate BS....no commitment is made to repair yr bike quicker ...just that it has been escalated to the highest possible level in Germany....hahahahaah now that is a cop out and who is this highest possible level in germany and why are BM ZA (africa) not taking responsibility an getting it sorted.... surely BM SA has more pull than a mediocre lil escalation ....cant they make decisions here????
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Obi -Wan on October 23, 2007, 09:31:04 am
Sorry guys

Scribble and I are hijacking the thread a bit but , yes, you are right. There are a number of pin configurations for the 1150 dependant on market region , altitude, Fuel available etc. The combination used on the 1100 gs ( Beige colour CCP ) is the one that fits the 1150 best for South Africa  ( Hot and sometimes high altitude ) conditions.

The pinging ( detonation ) is caused , I believe by a combination of :

 -  Poor quality fuel
 -  Incorrect valve adjustment
 -  Incorrect Throttle body syncronisation
 -  The standard ( yellow ) CCP does not supply enough fuel  ( runs too lean ). You can
    run extremely lean air /fuel ratios ( 16 to 1 ) safely in multi- cylinder water cooled
    engines that are using top line multipoint digital fuel injection controls.
-   You cannot do this on an air / oil cooled horizontally opposed twin. The margin for
     error is too thin. In Germany, BMW must meet certain emission control requirements
     but Germany is firstly much cooler for most of the year, and secondly close to sea
     level. Highveld conditions simply don;t exist!

 -  Particularly on the 1150, the addittion of the 1200 gs Left side cam chain tensioner  
    ( R 700, 00 +_ )  goes a long way to making the 1150 start and  run a lot smoother
    and  whilst I have no tangible evidence , i think it helps to reduce detonation as well
    given that slack is removed from the valvetrain operation on the L side of the
     engine.    

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 23, 2007, 10:08:29 am
sorry to buck the trend here, that reply to me is corporate BS....no commitment is made to repair yr bike quicker ...just that it has been escalated to the highest possible level in Germany....hahahahaah now that is a cop out and who is this highest possible level in germany and why are BM ZA (africa) not taking responsibility an getting it sorted.... surely BM SA has more pull than a mediocre lil escalation ....cant they make decisions here????

I understand your feeling here ICM, however there are some communication going between me, BMW SA and the local dealer that is not all stipulated on here.  The biggest problem is stock.  No engines and new bikes not so readily available.  I hope though, to have a decision before the end of the week that will put me back in the saddle within the next week.  If not, I will raise my voice . . . and obviously hope it works! ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Da Tazzman on October 23, 2007, 01:50:11 pm

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 23, 2007, 03:09:04 pm
I am becoming a BMW fan all over again!! ;D ;D

Just got back from my friendly BM dealer for the daily update!

Lachlan Harris called the local manager today confirming that my bike will be replaced with a new one as soon as they find one to send to Windhoek! 

Wow, sofar so good! ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 23, 2007, 06:55:42 pm
result bru very stoked for you
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 23, 2007, 08:29:19 pm
Calling ALL Gauteng BMW dealers, anyone have a GSA going begging??????C'mon, help this guy.................. 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Scribble on October 23, 2007, 08:32:51 pm

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!
holy crap dude you are worse than PS
 14 bikes in what 3 years ?what do you do to them
and more importantly how does that adv go on a track?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: gonedown on October 23, 2007, 09:47:55 pm
Good to hear about the replacement Davy - at least the trying to keep the customer happy!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: cheesy on October 23, 2007, 11:23:18 pm
Hi Davy,
I am a staunch BMW biker for many reasons and your latest posting confirms my belief in that company, Met with Rob @ the GSC a true gentleman, I would certainly trust his word and your new bike is confirmation thereof.
Despite all and sundry trying to get your heckels up you kept cool and it has paid off. guys there is a lesson to be learnt here, incitement is not a good thing.
Now to all those KTM guys who slated this incident, you have short memories gentlemen, did you not notice the number of Dakar bikes stuck in the desert dunes waiting for the back up truck during the last Dakar, as the commentator said" another engine replacement needed" or words to that effect.
Let's be objective in our postings, enjoy the rest of the week and ride this weekend like no other.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 24, 2007, 06:40:35 am
+1 for Cheesy :)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 24, 2007, 06:45:50 am

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!



Just remember guys you will loose any BMW warranty with this fitted, I spoke to Denver Biggs some time ago about this.!!!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on October 24, 2007, 06:50:35 am
cheesy

Quote
Now to all those KTM guys who slated this incident, you have short memories gentlemen, did you not notice the number of Dakar bikes stuck in the desert dunes waiting for the back up truck during the last Dakar, as the commentator said" another engine replacement needed" or words to that effect.

Just to get the facts straight not one KTM rider slated this incident, except for Crazy porra's tongue in the cheek comment
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Goose on October 24, 2007, 07:14:10 am
Calling ALL Gauteng BMW dealers, anyone have a GSA going begging??????C'mon, help this guy.................. 8) 8) 8)

Try Kimberley (Sovereign motors)..... but problem is that BMWSA would have to arrange - when I wanted - they had 2 in Kimberley, but not the colours the wifey wanted  :-[ - & Motorrad CPT wanted additional R2k to get a bike here.... even though there was a looong waiting list!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on October 24, 2007, 08:22:07 am
.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 24, 2007, 08:56:08 am
I think they are tweaking the software ... this problem has now surfaced in another country. I have been told that the software is under review.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 24, 2007, 08:58:58 am

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!



Just remember guys you will loose any BMW warranty with this fitted, I spoke to Denver Biggs some time ago about this.!!!

IMO the performance controller will most likely cause the engine to run more to the rich side, solving the problems associated with running lean ....why can bmw not add something like this for Africa bikes?


Eet is not ze BMW aprooved ghaget zat is vy , from my understanding from Denver, BM have completely dissed this and are not prepared to even enter discussions regarding this controller.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on October 24, 2007, 09:19:09 am
.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 24, 2007, 02:18:48 pm

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!



Just remember guys you will loose any BMW warranty with this fitted, I spoke to Denver Biggs some time ago about this.!!!

Even if it is fitted at a BMW dealer, as in this case?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: CrazyPorra on October 24, 2007, 02:36:51 pm
cheesy

Quote
Now to all those KTM guys who slated this incident, you have short memories gentlemen, did you not notice the number of Dakar bikes stuck in the desert dunes waiting for the back up truck during the last Dakar, as the commentator said" another engine replacement needed" or words to that effect.

Just to get the facts straight not one KTM rider slated this incident, except for Crazy porra's tongue in the cheek comment

But that is 'cause I ride a Africa Twin and those bikes can run all day on Stroh.

But seriously this is a S#it thing to happen to anyone no matter what  he lays his hard earned money on.

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on October 24, 2007, 02:46:56 pm
.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 24, 2007, 03:51:40 pm

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!



Just remember guys you will loose any BMW warranty with this fitted, I spoke to Denver Biggs some time ago about this.!!!

Even if it is fitted at a BMW dealer, as in this case?

Makes no difference, Denver had one in his ADV and was told  to remove it or no warranty, I also remember something about BM was telling dealers that if they fitted this unit the serial numbers  of the bikes needed to be given to the to verify the warranty status. I will try and find Denvers reply to me and post.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 24, 2007, 03:55:21 pm
Found it.


Hi Craig,

 

An issue has developed about the Performance Controller that we have fitted where BMW SA are now cancelling the Warrantee on the bikes that the unit has been fitted to. It is one of those typical non-investigatory decisions that the are famous for, but the are the ruling body and ‚??no correspondence shall be entered unto‚?¶..‚?Ě

We can fit it, they cost R 3 760 fitted but it does exclude your warrantee.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Denver Biggs

Dealer Principal

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 24, 2007, 07:00:45 pm
So why then does he advertise it here of all places? Just where we had a STANDARD 1200 blow up?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on October 24, 2007, 07:49:18 pm


Just remember guys you will loose any BMW warranty with this fitted, I spoke to Denver Biggs some time ago about this.!!!

Is this true for Germany itself as well, why would a German company sell a chip which invalidates the warranty for a German motorcycle? ???
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: cheesy on October 24, 2007, 08:26:08 pm
Hi Guys,

Oh how I long for Delortto's, (even Bing's) points, condensers and conventional coils.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 25, 2007, 08:31:48 am
COME NOW......all you guys that officially represent BMW, find this dude a farking GSA!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D 
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: lecap on October 25, 2007, 09:15:40 am


Just remember guys you will loose any BMW warranty with this fitted, I spoke to Denver Biggs some time ago about this.!!!

Is this true for Germany itself as well, why would a German company sell a chip which invalidates the warranty for a German motorcycle? ???

In Germany they only sell the chip under the counter. Next to the hardcore porn mags
 :D

BTW: I am sure that something like the power controller does not only void your warranty in Germany but also your T√?V / roadworthiness (which might have much more severe consequences).
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: kurt on October 25, 2007, 10:20:27 am
I am becoming a BMW fan all over again!! ;D ;D

Just got back from my friendly BM dealer for the daily update!

Lachlan Harris called the local manager today confirming that my bike will be replaced with a new one as soon as they find one to send to Windhoek! 

Wow, sofar so good! ;)


Good one, Davy. And rain in Windhoek... things are looking up.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on October 25, 2007, 05:04:17 pm
Is this true for Germany itself as well, why would a German company sell a chip which invalidates the warranty for a German motorcycle? ???


In Germany they only sell the chip under the counter. Next to the hardcore porn mags
 :D

BTW: I am sure that something like the power controller does not only void your warranty in Germany but also your T√?V / roadworthiness (which might have much more severe consequences).

You obviously have inside info  ;D ;D ;D Thanks for clearing that up.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: The TRANSPORTER on October 26, 2007, 01:40:56 pm
Hey Beemer man,why do you wanna talk or did talk to Denver Biggs if his a member of the dawgs.....do your homework ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ross on October 26, 2007, 02:20:03 pm
 I also have a 1200 GS bought in April 2007 and have 4300 km on the clock. Is it possible to see what the engine numbers are of the faulty bikes so as to ensure I don't have one.

Thanks
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: fruitandveg on October 26, 2007, 02:41:20 pm
Hi Ross

I‚??m in the same boat as you, I bought mine in July and it now has almost 7000k's on the clock. Think there r a whole lot of people waiting for some kind of recall before our motors blow up.

My main concern is what damage is being done while we wait and IF a patch is found will my bike still have the reliability and be able to do the high mileage I bought it for especially once the warranty is up?  ???

Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 26, 2007, 03:13:33 pm
Ross, F&V,

See below the response of Rob Holder of BMW Motorrad.  It seems from that statement that they are not sure which bikes are affected!

Quote
. . . The reason we have continued to sell the Boxer Engine models is that the problem has occurred in a very small numbers of these units and it is not clearly definable as to the production dates within which the problem occurs. . . .

Well even with BMW now prepared to replace my bike, it now seems I will only get one sometime in (perhaps) January 2008!  Apparently there is NOWHERE any to be found!  I can hardly believe that . . .

Again, I don't want to be pushy, but hey, there's a whole flippen holiday ahead and I had some plans for that white bike! >:(

So I guess I will start to phone around the dealerships and see if I cannot help them find one a bit sooner!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Plothond on October 26, 2007, 05:47:07 pm
On my way out earlier today I passed a vehicle towing a trailer.
On the trailer were two long rectangular cardboard twatwaffle's

These twatwaffle's had BMW stuff written on them

These twatwaffle's were going in the direction of Menlyn Motorrad

Maybe, just maybe Menlyn has what you are looking for - Contact them
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on October 26, 2007, 10:42:10 pm
Called everyone of them . . . niks!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Goose on October 26, 2007, 10:50:06 pm
Called everyone of them . . . niks!

Did u try Sovereign...????
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 27, 2007, 07:16:16 am
'Nother option, it takes 6 weeks to ship a crate in from Germany, if BMW gets it's act together ans SHIPS one in, you can be sorted before Xmas. We all know it CAN be done, question is WILL BMW do this?
PS, make sure you only register it in January.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Welsh on October 27, 2007, 07:55:56 am
On my way out earlier today I passed a vehicle towing a trailer.
On the trailer were two long rectangular cardboard twatwaffle's

These twatwaffle's had BMW stuff written on them

These twatwaffle's were going in the direction of Menlyn Motorrad

Maybe, just maybe Menlyn has what you are looking for - Contact them

I saw couple of dozen of those twatwaffle,S arriving at Lyndhurst on Thursday, all containing KK Bikes!!!!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 27, 2007, 12:04:53 pm
Just for the record ... country orders to the factory is roughly 10 weeks in advance ... so although GSA's are rolling of the assembly line daily ... they have been made for orders that were placed months earlier.

From what I know ZA places orders for numbers of specified models almost 6 months in advance and then as the time approach they can spec details like colours etc.

With high in demand units like the GSA you will only get preference if someone else should cancel his order or a dealer is willing to shaft one of his other clients. The 1200 GS's do not sit on Showroom floors.

If you go to a dealer and ask for a bike he usually can tell you when he expects his next model of what you are looking for because dealers also pre-order.

Bottomline is this ... if Lifestyle tells you they cannot get a bike for you the chances of a dealer getting one is very remote because Lifestyle knows where every one of the units that are unsold is.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Adventurer on October 27, 2007, 07:45:50 pm
I beg to differ there Colyn, Lifestyle didn't know about this engine failure problem........I recall someone here enwuiring at Lifestyle about this problem before taking delivery of his GSA.... ;D ;D ;D
They don't apparently know how kak the 1200GS discs are either....... >:D >:D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on October 28, 2007, 01:46:51 am
If I say Lifestyle I am actually referring to the guys on top floor :) not on the sales floor.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: lecap on October 29, 2007, 12:20:47 pm
Is this true for Germany itself as well, why would a German company sell a chip which invalidates the warranty for a German motorcycle? ???


In Germany they only sell the chip under the counter. Next to the hardcore porn mags
 :D

BTW: I am sure that something like the power controller does not only void your warranty in Germany but also your T√?V / roadworthiness (which might have much more severe consequences).

You obviously have inside info  ;D ;D ;D Thanks for clearing that up.

Frikkel wizz ze bike and ze T√ľff is kaputt!

I spent considerable time of  my life trying to convince morons of all coleur at the "Besch√ľtzende Werkst√§tten" (protecting workshops (?)) Technischer √?berwachungs Verein.
Started with add ons (which came with papers) - the difficult time.
Later I moved on to more serious conversions like my old VF1100 and my 500cc CB250RS. - By that time I knew a few guys there and things became easy :D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on October 29, 2007, 02:20:40 pm
Hey Beemer man,why do you wanna talk or did talk to Denver Biggs if his a member of the dawgs.....do your homework ;) ;) ;)

Ja very doff, only found this out last week!! ;D
Title: Octane booster anyone?
Post by: Boerbok on October 31, 2007, 10:35:25 am
I have found that some brands of fuel seems to ping more than others here in Gauteng on my 2004 1200GS. Had the best results with Sasol 95, but it still pings badly under certain conditions (hot day, 140km/h in top gear, pillion or slight uphill). I try to vary the load as far as possible whenever I hear pinging (sounds like broken glass marbles in the engine/gearbox)

On numerous occasions the guys from BMW just told me to fill up with 95, as it is caused by bad quality SA petrol. What concerns me is that BMW reckons pinging will not damage your engine, and that I should just live with it - my knock sensor will take care of it!  ??? As far as I can figure out, my knock sensor does nothing to alleviate the problem.

Have any of you guys tried an octane booster to reduce the pinging?

I have experimented with an octane booster, adding +- 120ml to a full tank of Sasol 95, and found a noticeable reduction in pinging. Almost completely solved the problem... Bike also feels faster/happier.

BUT, I'm not sure what the long-term effects of an octane booster will be on engine life? Any ideas if this could screw your engine up more than the pinging?



Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Ratel on October 31, 2007, 03:38:02 pm
You will probably find out that somewhere in the fine print it says that the warranttee is nul an void if any additives were used >:(
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on November 01, 2007, 02:37:43 pm
I always thought a Knock sensor was the Madam who was in charge of the knock shop!! ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: The TRANSPORTER on November 01, 2007, 09:02:41 pm
And i thought its the old one who takes the money... ;D ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Mikedabike on November 02, 2007, 08:22:21 am
I always thought a Knock sensor was the Madam who was in charge of the knock shop!!

And i thought its the old one who takes the money...

And you both know this how is what I want to know???  >:D  >:D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: CrazyPorra on November 02, 2007, 09:03:24 am
I always thought a Knock sensor was the Madam who was in charge of the knock shop!!

And i thought its the old one who takes the money...

And you both know this how is what I want to know???  >:D  >:D  ;D  ;D

BMW's new sales ploy " Buy a 1200GS and get a trip to Teaser's"  >:D >:D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Da Tazzman on November 02, 2007, 11:11:50 am

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!
holy crap dude you are worse than PS
 14 bikes in what 3 years ?what do you do to them
and more importantly how does that adv go on a track?
Hehe no that's 14 bikes in two years dude, i am a brat I admit it - as for how an Adv go on the track feast your eyes and look for yourself........ ::)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Da Tazzman on November 02, 2007, 11:20:49 am

He fitted an aftermarket pipe and a Power Commander to a brand new GS 1200 and rode the crap out of it for almost 3,000 kms in 5 days.

How long has the Power Commander for the Gs1200 been available ?


Quite a while actually - official term is the Wunderlich Performance Controller, cost is around R 3800.00 fitted, I have had 5 1200GS's and am on my 9th Adventure, no bleats no kak and all pretty kwik. The one that Colyn was talking about - I just took on the SA Biking Tri-Track Tour (blerry awesome trip I might add)
and I literally did ride absolutely balles to the walles for 2 500 Kms including three different track days, as I said no mess - no fuss and 114 bhp and 103 nM on the dyno. Total work done, "Blue" airfilter, Wunderlich Headers & Hurric pipe and the Perfomance Controller, (same as Power Commander) Contact Auto Alpina 011 418 3300
Not too shabby hey Nige!



Just remember guys you will loose any BMW warranty with this fitted, I spoke to Denver Biggs some time ago about this.!!!

Even if it is fitted at a BMW dealer, as in this case?

Good question

No sadly this is my nemisis (or translated more articulately the things that p&%$#S me off the most) 14 Gs's and GSA's and about 100 000Kms of HARD riding on road and off and not one bleat and I mean that literally, but I cannot get the "fish 'n chips" passed for warranty.
But hey look at my stats and ask me if there's a risk - I think not!
Photo refers..... ???
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: KiLRoy on November 02, 2007, 02:01:37 pm
Reminds me of that saying - as useful as teets on a bull...

H
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Beemer Man (RIP) on November 02, 2007, 02:03:19 pm
Da-Tazzman are you saying you have had this controller on all the bikes you have had?
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: michnus on November 02, 2007, 05:53:56 pm
Reminds me of that saying - as useful as teets on a bull...

H

How about giving it a try on your KLR? ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Colyn on November 02, 2007, 11:17:46 pm
I have heard that the failures have basically stopped ... don't know more, only this. It has been quite a while since one was reported ... that is world wide.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on November 03, 2007, 09:58:07 am
So it must have been just my (bad) luck . . . having sort of the last one! :(

And for my sins BMW is now very quiet after the initial verbal assurances!

No commitment in writing and only a rather vague ... " we have no bike for u, we have other orders for all the ones on their way, sometime early next year ... "  The fact that I have paid my bike already does not seem to faze them any bit!

I'm pissed off!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: Goose on November 03, 2007, 11:35:16 am
So it must have been just my (bad) luck . . . having sort of the last one! :(

And for my sins BMW is now very quiet after the initial verbal assurances!

No commitment in writing and only a rather vague ... " we have no bike for u, we have other orders for all the ones on their way, sometime early next year ... "  The fact that I have paid my bike already does not seem to faze them any bit!

I'm pissed off!


NMmmmmm would you like the name & numbr for the Editor of The Argus & Cape Times at all....  >:D ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on November 08, 2007, 08:37:59 pm
Seems like we now entering the final stages of this saga even if at an unexpected angle!

I am told by my dealer here in Windhoek that there are no bikes available until at least April 2008!.  >:(
They even ventured that BMW might be keeping deliveries back in a quest to sort out the software/whatever issue! ???

Be that as it may, a local rider got transfered to the DRC and does not want to take his March '07 delivered Adv with him.  It has 2700km on the clock and is a beauty!  BMW is prepared to buy that bike and give it to me as a solution to my problem.  I think it is brilliant.  I have requested though for an extension on the warranty and am now awaiting their final decision.  Apparently this bike preceeds the ''problem'' units and I should not have any issues!

So, with a spot of luck I will be back in the saddle!  I can't wait!  ;)
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: JourneyMan on November 08, 2007, 08:39:48 pm
Holding thumbs!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: chris g on November 09, 2007, 06:30:00 am
Why can't BMW get you a new bike from one of the dealers, if they are saying they don't have stock anywhere they are talking shit because i got a call from BMW in George on tuesday asking if i was still interested in a GSA because they have one on the floor.
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: David van Breda on December 02, 2007, 01:55:43 am
Just a quick note in closing remark of this fred: I got my ''new'' Adventure!!  2600kms on the clock and just a beauty.

Die hele saga het my pyle so effens terug gedruk, maar ek is verheug om weer in die saal te wees.  Nou vir Swakopmund en Desembermaand!! ;D
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 02, 2007, 07:56:26 am
Glad to hear you are sorted, I hope you have many trouble-free kms!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: ROOI on December 02, 2007, 08:00:28 am
Glad to hear that hope u enjoy !!!
Title: Re: 1200 GSA engine failure!!
Post by: mountainboy on December 02, 2007, 08:05:22 am
enjoy the open road mate! and be safe out there