Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => KTM LC4 400/610/640 & 690 => Topic started by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 04:52:50 pm

Title: 690 Starting issues SORTED
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 04:52:50 pm
For those following- as you can see by the dates, taken a while to sort out. It was what I expected but the dealers said I was wrong. I fitted a new injector, and all sorted!--

If my bike is cold , standing over night will start on first or second press of stater button , but if hot have to press 4 or 5 times , BUT if you turn bike off with button on handle bars and leave ignition key switch on then bike starts one time when hot , so only battle to start when hot if turn key off , but if key remains in ON position it starts fine ,I have checked values, TPS, auto decompression lever, mapping , all check by Alfie Cox . Seem to do do with the fact that if you leave ignition on, then starts fine, but if turn ignition off it battles ideas ??
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: buzzlightyear on January 10, 2013, 06:48:46 pm
maybe the computer resets what it thinks engine temp is if you switch it off and this leads to harder hot starting. are you letting it get through the init seq before hitting the starter button?
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 07:17:11 pm
maybe the computer resets what it thinks engine temp is if you switch it off and this leads to harder hot starting. are you letting it get through the init seq before hitting the starter button?
Yes I let it cycle , and cleaned injector and filters replaced
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: buzzlightyear on January 10, 2013, 07:37:09 pm
Sounds like it could be temp sensor related, or buggy ICU in hot start conditions.
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 07:37:58 pm
Sounds like it could be temp sensor related, or buggy ICU in hot start conditions.
Solutions?
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: buzzlightyear on January 10, 2013, 08:27:19 pm
www.google.com/m?q=ktm%20690%20hot%20start%20issues&client=ms-opera-mobile&channel=new

quite a few threads on advrider I see so it must be a common problem?
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 08:34:56 pm
www.google.com/m?q=ktm%20690%20hot%20start%20issues&client=ms-opera-mobile&channel=new

quite a few threads on advrider I see so it must be a common problem?
Txs I post the same question on ADV they reckon clean injector , but still does not make sense why starts only when igntion is left on ?
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 08:36:37 pm
Think I will change from map 3 to 2 to see if it helps
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: Bill the Bong on January 10, 2013, 08:37:33 pm
The one case I've seen like this, it was actuaclly the ignition switch.  Try to hot-wire it and simulate the same conditions.  A new switch that will work minus the steering lock is R40 at the co-op.  
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 08:43:55 pm
The one case I've seen like this, it was actuaclly the ignition switch.  Try to hot-wire it and simulate the same conditions.  A new switch that will work minus the steering lock is R40 at the co-op.  
Why would it be the ignition, when I turn the key the pump primes and the speedo cycles , I press the starter button about 5 times and I smell petrol before it starts , but I wil try it and over ride it
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: buzzlightyear on January 10, 2013, 09:09:53 pm
pump or spark plug gap sounds plausible even valve clearance if it started straight after a service...
Did they changr fuel filter at the service?
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 09:14:58 pm
pump or spark plug gap sounds plausible even valve clearance if it started straight after a service...
Did they changr fuel filter at the service?
Being to Alfie cox 4 times , checked. Valves , check mapping etc , new filters and plug and plug cap
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: buzzlightyear on January 10, 2013, 09:15:57 pm
ouch
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: Bill the Bong on January 10, 2013, 09:34:21 pm
You stated this in your original post:

If my bike is cold , standing over night will start on first or second press of stater button , but if hot have to press 4 or 5 times , BUT if you turn bike off with button on handle bars and leave ignition key switch on then bike starts one time when hot , so only battle to start when hot if turn key off , but if key remains in ON position it starts fine..

The symptoms you are describing is a dry joint in the ignition key barrel.
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: hff on January 10, 2013, 10:00:01 pm
fwiw... my 2012 690 does the same thing... only has 150km on it!
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 10:08:41 pm
fwiw... my 2012 690 does the same thing... only has 150km on it!
New bike with adry joint ?
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 10, 2013, 10:22:44 pm
You stated this in your original post:

If my bike is cold , standing over night will start on first or second press of stater button , but if hot have to press 4 or 5 times , BUT if you turn bike off with button on handle bars and leave ignition key switch on then bike starts one time when hot , so only battle to start when hot if turn key off , but if key remains in ON position it starts fine..

The symptoms you are describing is a dry joint in the ignition key barrel.
Will see if I can open it tomorrow and bypass it
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 12, 2013, 05:56:20 pm
See reply posed on ADVRIDER, make sense to me, another thing i found is that if i crack the throttle the revs do not 'snap"like other 690's, if you know what i mean, it seems it is 'over fueling"

I believe your fuel injector is leaking ( when it should not be emitting fuel ) and this
is the source of your hard-start problem as you have described it. When you switch on
the ignition switch, the pump cycles and the fuel injector then leaks fuel and creates an
over-rich fuel mixture which when the bike is warmed up makes starting difficult.
In layman's terms, the the engine is being "flooded" with fuel.

The simple test to determine whether this is the case is to remove the injector
from the throttle body and leave it connected to the bike wiring harness and fuel
lines, and place the injector in a clear fuel resistant container.

, cycle the ignition switch and when the fuel pump cycles, you should watch the fuel
injector closely and determine whether fuel leaks from the injector. Fuel is NOT supposed to
emerge from the injector unless the engine is being started or the engine is running.

If you DO see fuel come from the injector when you switch the ignition key on, you
need to either clean or replace the injector such that when the test above is repeated using
the cleaned or new injector, fuel no longer leaks when the ignition switch is
turned on. It is difficult to diagnose a problem remotely but nonetheless I am 99%
sure that your problem is caused by a leaking injector.


Please be a responsible internet citizen and report back in this thread when
you solve the problem, so that others who have a similar hard-start condition
can benefit from your experience.

What you Dawgs think?


Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: buzzlightyear on January 12, 2013, 06:05:29 pm
sounds very plausible imho.
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on January 12, 2013, 06:08:16 pm
sounds very plausible imho.
Agree , think I will replace at nect service
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on February 17, 2013, 06:52:12 pm
Just some feedback, I rode a full tank out with injector cleaner in the tank, went well today, starting on the turn, seems to have sorted the problem out.
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: buzzlightyear on February 17, 2013, 07:04:26 pm
Hope it sorts it out!
Title: Re: 690 Starting issues
Post by: 777 on February 17, 2013, 07:06:03 pm
Txs , will see on my next ride