Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => Suzuki DR & DRZ => Topic started by: malJohann on December 07, 2007, 11:37:28 am

Title: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 07, 2007, 11:37:28 am
I don't know exactly what to call it, but my DR200SE is stuttering once every 20 seconds if I'm travelling between 80km/h and a 100km/h and I turn the throttle more than ¾. Do I have a fuel mixture problem, and if so what would be the best jetting that I could do? Otherwise, does the DR have a governor of some kind?

Another thing, what is the top speed and max revs of the DR, because (maybe as a result of the stuttering) I can't get past 100km/h? Could it be a gearing problem? If so, what sprocket would get me to a top speed of about 140km/h? Also, does anyone here have any experience of getting more power out of it on the cheap?

I know there's Kientech in the USA whom does a performance mod on the carb jetting and standard exhaust, which supposedly boosts the power enough for the DR to maintain a speed of about 125km/h and I'm guessing someone in SA that specialises in carb tuning would be able to do the same, but who should I approach?

http://www.kientech.com/DR200SEExhaustMod.htm
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles...
Post by: SuperJuice on December 07, 2007, 11:48:37 am
Speak to Freez (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1178) on WD.

He'll dyno it for you and sort out all your carb for you.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Freez on December 07, 2007, 01:26:54 pm
Normally, if the bike splutters/stutters it indicates that the bike is running to rich. In other words, to much fuel is dumped into the motor. This can cause engine problems if not addressed quickly.

at 3/4 throttle and further, yo are moving over onto the main jet of the carb. It sounds like the main jet is way to big.

Best is to dyno your bike to make sure what the problems is.

Also, just check if you are not running with the choke on, or that the choke is stuck.


Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 07, 2007, 01:53:32 pm
If so, what sprocket would get me to a top speed of about 140km/h?


I think you're being a bit optimistic here to be honest. 100-120 is more feasible IMO. Send rooipoot a PM, he's changed sprockets to get the speed up a bit.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: shark_za on December 07, 2007, 02:11:28 pm
100, then my BW stands a chance !
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 07, 2007, 02:14:19 pm
I think about you every time I see a BW  ;D
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 07, 2007, 02:37:19 pm
I think you're being a bit optimistic here to be honest. 100-120 is more feasible IMO. Send rooipoot a PM, he's changed sprockets to get the speed up a bit.

140km/h is what I want to gear it for at redline, so that I can maintain 120km/h all day without problems. If that's not over optimistic too.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 07, 2007, 02:40:57 pm
Normally, if the bike splutters/stutters it indicates that the bike is running to rich. In other words, to much fuel is dumped into the motor. This can cause engine problems if not addressed quickly.

What kind of problems? How quickly are we talking here?
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Eisbein on December 07, 2007, 02:46:32 pm
I think you're being a bit optimistic here to be honest. 100-120 is more feasible IMO. Send rooipoot a PM, he's changed sprockets to get the speed up a bit.

140km/h is what I want to gear it for at redline, so that I can maintain 120km/h all day without problems. If that's not over optimistic too.

It might be a stretch - probably possible, but you are going to lose usefull low revs power.

My TTR 250 has got a very willing engine and it manages 140 with some effort.
Granted I'm also very big ...

Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Freez on December 07, 2007, 03:00:05 pm
your 1st and most noticeable problem with to much fuel is the stutter, high fuel consumption and you will also notice that the plug gets fouled very quickly.

Also, a lot of carbon build-up is taking place in the combustion chamber and exhaust side.

The major problem comes from the fact that the rich condition is killing your spark on the plug, hence the splutter. during that splutter, unburned fuel is deposited on the sleeve walls and that fuel is diluting the oil that is there to help lubricate the rings. the fuel also work their way past the rings, which ends up in the crank case where it dilutes the oil even further, reducing the oils lubrication.

Depending on how much fuel gets past, you can either have a lot of ring and sleeve wall wear, plus other components that run under oil pressure, like the cam, crank bearings and so forth, can also wear out much quicker than what it is suppose to.

Overfueling is a silent engine killer, one day, you see the tell tale smoke at the back, and when you open the motor, it is serious money to repair all the damaged parts. All the moving parts wear down slowly but surely with the fuel mixed with the oil.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Rooipoot on December 07, 2007, 06:33:17 pm
I think you're being a bit optimistic here to be honest. 100-120 is more feasible IMO. Send rooipoot a PM, he's changed sprockets to get the speed up a bit.

140km/h is what I want to gear it for at redline, so that I can maintain 120km/h all day without problems. If that's not over optimistic too.

It might be a stretch - probably possible, but you are going to lose usefull low revs power.

My TTR 250 has got a very willing engine and it manages 140 with some effort.
Granted I'm also very big ...



Agent changed front sprocket from 14 to 17, he said. Rear is standard 47t I think. Mine's still young and stiff, but I managed 115kph on short stretches amongst a lot of bigger bikes on gravel in the Middelpos/Sutherland area last weekend.

140? You'd surely loose low end power, and some fun in the tougher spots!
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 07, 2007, 08:33:39 pm
Freez: Help-a-dog! O0 Will you assist me in sorting my fuelling problem out? If so, when and how much will it cost?          rooipoot: Are you sure your back sprocket has 47 teeth, as mine has only got 44? If so, what would the equivalent combination be for me?          Sorry about the shabby formatting, but I'm posting from my cell phone.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: lecap on December 08, 2007, 02:09:46 pm
There seems to be two different DR200 around. The one is an Ag version (Rooipoot has got one) whilst the other one is the DR200SE / Djebel 200.
The Ag is very easy to recognize from its cheapo chrome steel rims and the oil cooler (overkill for road & DS use).
The Ag is very awkwardly geared.
I will check what's on Mrs. LeCap's Djebel 200.
The Djebel does 100 - 110 quite nicely and tops at about 120 - 125 flat and no wind. I don't think that you can get more top speed out of 20 hp. IMHO you should not squeeze more out of the tiny 199cc "Motörchen". If you need more voomah get a bigger bike.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 10, 2007, 12:15:44 pm
I will check what's on Mrs. LeCap's Djebel 200.
The Djebel does 100 - 110 quite nicely and tops at about 120 - 125 flat and no wind.

Cool. Please let me know ASAP.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: lecap on December 11, 2007, 08:54:36 am
15-45
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: B.V. on December 11, 2007, 04:07:32 pm
I have a DF200. Farmers model. Think mine is a 98 model,24 000km. Farm km's.
These bikes have a problem with needle and seats. Mine is on number 4 I think. Simptoms is the same as yours.You can fix it by putting a new plug in everytime but it will not solve it. 2 weeks later the plug is dead again.
New needle and seat. Fit both.
My 2c.....
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 12, 2007, 11:11:36 am
New needle and seat. Fit both.

Any tips on which needle and seat to get?
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: B.V. on December 12, 2007, 03:16:02 pm
New needle and seat. Fit both.

Any tips on which needle and seat to get?

Do not know the part numbers.  Just go into my local Suzuki dealer and ask for the part.
Had a terible time at first to find the fault. They believed it were the petrol we use that kills the plugs. But 1 plug every 2nd week. Eich.
At first they fitted just the needle. No fix.
My bike is used on my farm around orchards and never gets reved high. So the needle gets worn in a specific place.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: lecap on December 13, 2007, 10:33:40 am
The one and only serious DR200SE problem I found so far are the lousy fibre reinforced plastic bushes in the swingarm pivot.
I did two mods with some high end sintered brass bushes and grease nipples.
Found matching size needle bearings in the meantime. (Non standard size, difficult to find)
TBA soon :)
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 20, 2007, 01:30:37 pm
Do you manage 140 kph now?

Funny, but no (and I didn't want to reach 140km/h, only gear it for that and cruise at 120km/h). Three things stopping me at the moment. I've got a flat rear tyre, which I haven't gotten to yet. The jetting/neadles/seat on that carb needs to be tuned in. And I need a 39/40t rear sprocket.

I'm really being serious about cruising at 120km/h with the DR. At the moment I'm back on my Raider 150 again, which with 12kW and gearing to take it to 153km/h (indicated) does 110km/h happily on it's own steam and up to 135km/h (or even 153km/h on rare occasions) slip-streaming, downhill or with the wind from behind.
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Oppad on December 20, 2007, 10:45:19 pm
The one and only serious DR200SE problem I found so far are the lousy fibre reinforced plastic bushes in the swingarm pivot.
I did two mods with some high end sintered brass bushes and grease nipples.
Found matching size needle bearings in the meantime. (Non standard size, difficult to find)
TBA soon :)

Le Cap, why don't you start a Djebel 200SE restoration/pimp-me-up thread? There seems to be very little documentation (on earth as is in cyberspace) available for either the DR or Djebel versions. I can't even find out what the service intervals are.

Fun bike isn't it?

Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Trailrider on December 22, 2007, 08:07:09 am
And maybe a comparison thread with HP, tank capacity, price etc?
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Trailrider on December 22, 2007, 08:25:27 am
LeCap - comment please.

(http://www.honda.co.za/viewimage.asp?id=672)

R32500 with road legal kit. Reliable as hell. Fun as hell.

How do the specs compare?

223cc
13,7 kW
6 speed
107kg
Adjustable suspension
21/18 wheels with disk/drum
Fuel tank - approx 8L (unsure about this figure)
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: Anthony W on December 22, 2007, 10:03:01 am
Seeing as I have only just read this how about throwing in a few curveballs, misfiring at higher revs, are we talking all the gears or just the top gears, if all the gears is it always at the same rpm or does it vary. Trust me this is very important info.
Also the problem mentioned with the needle and seat sounds more like the slide needle and needle valve, Suzuki tend to use mainly Mikuni carburettors and they have been known to give problems in that area, but it tends to screw up the fuelling in the 1/3 to 2/3 rpm range, a needle and seat that is worn would more than likely create problems in the idle to 1/3 area.
OK I have created enough confusion for now. >:D
Title: Re: ..DR200SE niggles... (FAO Freez)
Post by: malJohann on December 24, 2007, 09:52:55 am
Seeing as I have only just read this how about throwing in a few curveballs, misfiring at higher revs, are we talking all the gears or just the top gears, if all the gears is it always at the same rpm or does it vary. Trust me this is very important info.

Just the two top gears. If it happens at lower speeds at all while accelerating I don't notice it because of the acceleration. I'll try constant and rolling acceleration in the lower gears, but so far it only happened between 80km/h and 100km/h in the two top gears (it's max speed with the current gearing and carb problems).