Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => Husqvarna => Topic started by: alanB on October 21, 2013, 08:41:48 am

Title: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on October 21, 2013, 08:41:48 am
I went on a weekend ride away up to Vaalwater with TK a while ago  :thumleft:

I wear earplugs which have the annoying habit of working their way out as I ride, so the noise levels are constantly varying.

Anyway riding home (which was quite a saga  :biggrin:), I kept thinking the engine was bloody noisy, but couldn't make up my mind completely because the ear plugs were buggering up my judgement.

But when I finally got home I started the bike without earplugs or helmet on and there was no doubt, there was a nasty bearing knock somewhere low down  >:(

So I took the engine out and was meaning to work on it myself, but my problem is that I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist, and that means everything takes a long time.  After two weeks of not riding the urge to get it done was fighting the urge to check every little thing properly.

In the end I took it to Runner (Conrad of Offroad Cycles, although he isnt turning out to be a hell of a lot faster, being very busy  :biggrin:).  I went through on Saturday and had a look at the partly dismantled engine.

Everything looks fine, but apparently the stator side crankshaft bearing seems to be the culprit, which makes sense because that's where the noise seemed to be coming from.  The bottom end of the conrod is slightly loose but its really marginal, neither myself nor Conrad could make up our mind's if that was out of spec or not because its very slight.

Anyway, I'm going to replace them all while its open.

Why it should go is a mystery, because I'm religious about oil changes (do them myself, far more frequently than specified and only use Castrol Race synthetic).  Plus the bike was going really well, better than its been going maybe ever!

But I suppose there are no guarantees when it comes to mechanical stuff.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: swart skaap on October 21, 2013, 09:19:37 am
Sorry to hear that alan.
How many hours/Km do you have on the motor?
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: sidetrack on October 21, 2013, 09:57:11 am
Yip engine noises is very difficult to pin point, even loose valves can sound like something's wrong in the bottom end. Also check the rocker shafts while it is apart. Read a lot about the counterbalancer key that shears or the nut that works itself loose but that would translate into engine vibrations and not just a knock.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on October 21, 2013, 02:39:53 pm
The bike's on about 17,000 km.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: HK on October 22, 2013, 08:48:55 pm
Sorry to hear , any news on the cause yet ?
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on October 23, 2013, 08:37:12 pm
Its difficult to say because every thing looks in quite good condition on inspection.

My guess is:

Just before it happened, one of the cam idler roller bearings went ( a known issue on these bikes) I replaced it along with the cam chain which didnt really need it but I did that anyway.   But I think maybe a bit of that collapsed bearing might have found its way into the crank bearing?

Its really difficult to say, because everything looks quite good as far as I can see, and all my searches on the net dont show frequent issues with crank shaft bearings on these bikes.

Looks like one of those freak unlucky things - a bit irritating because I maintain my bikes well.  But that's the way it goes I suppose.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on October 23, 2013, 08:59:38 pm
As they say --a stitch in time saves nine --shit happens unfortunately Allan --at least you are in tune with your bike and know when it is not normal

Replace the crank bearings while you got it open and give it a good check as well --
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: MacMac on October 24, 2013, 05:40:50 pm
Hi Alan

My Huskey's motor packed up due to water pump failure. It was a very painful  and expensive experience. The water pump impeller came loose from its drive shaft due to bad engineering from Husky. This caused the engine too overheat. So then the rings lost there tension and damaged the barrel.

I replaced the impeller and the rings and I was able too hone the barrel without damaging the coating. In my mind all was good and I would be able to ride again. For its maiden ride I did almost 100km when disaster struck again. The engine started knocking very loudly.

Back to the workshop. I opened the engine again and discovered serious play on the big end!

What caused this was small aluminium filings came of the inside of the barrel when the rings lost there tension. The filings then found its way into the oil pump and damaged it to the extent that it did pump properly. Then the crank pin ran dry and got damaged. I had to replace oil pump, complete con-rod asm and gaskets.

My advise to you is to make sure that your oil pump is pumping at the correct pressure! I would take the time to pull the engin to pieces and make sure what's going on.

Cool
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: sidetrack on October 24, 2013, 07:57:44 pm
Hi Alan

My Huskey's motor packed up due to water pump failure. It was a very painful  and expensive experience. The water pump impeller came loose from its drive shaft due to bad engineering from Husky. This caused the engine too overheat. So then the rings lost there tension and damaged the barrel.

I replaced the impeller and the rings and I was able too hone the barrel without damaging the coating. In my mind all was good and I would be able to ride again. For its maiden ride I did almost 100km when disaster struck again. The engine started knocking very loudly.

Back to the workshop. I opened the engine again and discovered serious play on the big end!

What caused this was small aluminium filings came of the inside of the barrel when the rings lost there tension. The filings then found its way into the oil pump and damaged it to the extent that it did pump properly. Then the crank pin ran dry and got damaged. I had to replace oil pump, complete con-rod asm and gaskets.

My advise to you is to make sure that your oil pump is pumping at the correct pressure! I would take the time to pull the engin to pieces and make sure what's going on.

Cool

Did you find any metal in the bag filters ? Must have been an expensive exercise  :o
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on October 24, 2013, 08:53:32 pm
Hi Alan

My Huskey's motor packed up due to water pump failure. It was a very painful  and expensive experience. The water pump impeller came loose from its drive shaft due to bad engineering from Husky. This caused the engine too overheat. So then the rings lost there tension and damaged the barrel.

I replaced the impeller and the rings and I was able too hone the barrel without damaging the coating. In my mind all was good and I would be able to ride again. For its maiden ride I did almost 100km when disaster struck again. The engine started knocking very loudly.

Back to the workshop. I opened the engine again and discovered serious play on the big end!

What caused this was small aluminium filings came of the inside of the barrel when the rings lost there tension. The filings then found its way into the oil pump and damaged it to the extent that it did pump properly. Then the crank pin ran dry and got damaged. I had to replace oil pump, complete con-rod asm and gaskets.

My advise to you is to make sure that your oil pump is pumping at the correct pressure! I would take the time to pull the engin to pieces and make sure what's going on.

Cool


Welcome to the Forum --Mac Mac --Maybe introduce yourself to us Huskiteers and tell us more about the model of Husky and year you ride --Good to have a bit of a history on the bike as well new or bought 2nd hand --Thank's
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on October 25, 2013, 06:46:34 am
Hi Alan

My Huskey's motor packed up due to water pump failure. It was a very painful  and expensive experience. The water pump impeller came loose from its drive shaft due to bad engineering from Husky. This caused the engine too overheat. So then the rings lost there tension and damaged the barrel.

I replaced the impeller and the rings and I was able too hone the barrel without damaging the coating. In my mind all was good and I would be able to ride again. For its maiden ride I did almost 100km when disaster struck again. The engine started knocking very loudly.

Back to the workshop. I opened the engine again and discovered serious play on the big end!

What caused this was small aluminium filings came of the inside of the barrel when the rings lost there tension. The filings then found its way into the oil pump and damaged it to the extent that it did pump properly. Then the crank pin ran dry and got damaged. I had to replace oil pump, complete con-rod asm and gaskets.

My advise to you is to make sure that your oil pump is pumping at the correct pressure! I would take the time to pull the engin to pieces and make sure what's going on.

Cool


Thanks, I'll ask Conrad to check that out. 

I'm not looking forward to the repair quote either!

I love that bike and am already getting grumpy on weekends because I cant ride. 

It is frustrating to have this happen because I took very good care of the bike.

But its not the end of the world - any engine can fail, despite what the Toyota/Honda [insert your favourite brand here] guys think.  My mate with a Hilux KZTE is a case in point.  Sometimes these things just happen, its a complete pain in the ass - but that's life!
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: Mzee on October 25, 2013, 06:55:30 am
Alanb it will come alright.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on October 25, 2013, 07:59:03 am
Bottom line for me is ---- I have had basically all the brands over the last couple of years --some good --some --not that good

My 610 TE's is what works well for me and put a smile on my face every time I ride them -so if something unfortunate had to happen to one of them --I would not even hesitate to repair them 100% Cost Pleasure weighed up to cost for me is a no Brainer --

Pleasure I get will win hands down  ::)

That's why I ride --for the pleasure I get from it --
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: MacMac on October 25, 2013, 09:28:39 am
Thanks Blazes.

Well I'm just the average oke that loves bikes petrol spanner build explore fix create bike bike bike. That's pretty much me. Bike wise I actually sold my Husky a while ago. I had a 2004 450smr. Mint condition. It was allot of fun fixing it and I rode it for 2000 km with the new parts. Ridiculous amount of fun riding in Cape Town CBD.

Sidetrack.  I did find some small fine pieces of metal shavings in both bag filters. I should have checked it the first time when I ran it. Could have possibly saved me some money. But that's how you learn. I now know the 450 motor inside out.

So if anybody needs some advice. Give me a shout. I had to fabricate all the special tools myself to strip the motor and put it back together again.

See the attached photo of my old Huskey.

lekker man
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on October 25, 2013, 10:55:28 am
Nice Mac Mac --

I also have a 450 but the TE --- Love it to bits --real Hooligan bike

But the 610 and 450 are two completely different motors --450 Overhead cam --short stroke and a stressed motor -close ratio box etc

Where the 610 -- I have 2 x 2009 models --long stroke --single over head cam and wide ratio  box --takes a lot more oil -- A  gem of a motor

But no getting away from the fact that the horns grow on the 450 when you ride it ---
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: MacMac on October 25, 2013, 11:03:02 am
Haha ja

Stressed motor is a understatement! Super bike! I loved it! I test drove a Nude R a couple of week ago. I expected a bit more punch. But great looking machine.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on October 25, 2013, 11:21:33 am
Haha ja

Stressed motor is a understatement! Super bike! I loved it! I test drove a Nude R a couple of week ago. I expected a bit more punch. But great looking machine.

Yep and no longer in production --pity --could have been a good seller -

But I will still not swop my Aprilla Dorsodura for one ---
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: Straatkat on October 25, 2013, 07:35:12 pm
Alan, hope you get your 610 together soon, we must still go on a ride! I'm glad to see I am not the only one that gets withdrawal symptoms when my baby is in the fix. Last time it was out of action for 2 weeks and I thought I was going to do my nut! :3some:
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on October 28, 2013, 08:12:41 am
Conrad just phoned, he found the problem  :thumleft:

He said he personally split the engine (he someone else do the initial stripping) and he said the crankshaft bearing we initially thought was faulty was actually fine.

The problem was actually a bolt on the clutch side of the crankshaft was loose, he said he could loosen it by hand.  It had a locking plate but that wasn't properly fastened.

He said he's seen similar issues on the XT660's with the same symptoms.

I must admit that makes a lot more sense!

He says as far as he can see everything else is in good condition and doesn't think that we need to do anything else to it.

 
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: sidetrack on October 28, 2013, 08:37:28 am
Conrad just phoned, he found the problem  :thumleft:

He said he personally split the engine (he someone else do the initial stripping) and he said the crankshaft bearing we initially thought was faulty was actually fine.

The problem was actually a bolt on the clutch side of the crankshaft was loose, he said he could loosen it by hand.  It had a locking plate but that wasn't properly fastened.

He said he's seen similar issues on the XT660's with the same symptoms.

I must admit that makes a lot more sense!

He says as far as he can see everything else is in good condition and doesn't think that we need to do anything else to it.

 
:thumleft: The one behind the clutch or on the counter balancer shaft ?
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on October 28, 2013, 09:22:12 am
As far as I understand it, the one on the crankshaft

But I can't see exactly where on the parts drawing. May have to go through and look
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: sidetrack on October 28, 2013, 09:47:10 am
Must be the counter balancer one then, known to come loose (13)  or shear the key (9)
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on October 28, 2013, 11:38:27 am
As far as I understand it, the one on the crankshaft

But I can't see exactly where on the parts drawing. May have to go through and look

Hmmm --that's good news --- I did say look at the clutch when you called --

Luckily by the looks of it no serious damage  ;D
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on October 29, 2013, 08:13:58 pm
Went through and had a look. 

Its the nut on the end of the crankshaft.  Its not shown in the Husky parts manual, as far as I can see, it should be shown after that gear (3) in that drawing.

The locking plate is still in place (Conrad hadn't split the casing yet),  and you can move the nut by hand and the resulting play could very well make a loud knocking sound, we sort of simulated it by moving the whole assembly back and forth.

This looks like the best explanation given that everything else looks in good condition.

(http://www.abolton.co.za/upload/enginenut.jpg)

Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: dirtWarp on October 29, 2013, 10:02:28 pm
Husaberg 650 and 550's have the same issue.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on October 30, 2013, 05:39:37 am
Thank's for keeping us updated Alan --nice to know what can go wrong --put it in our Memory banks --just in case we need it one day --
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 09, 2013, 10:21:14 pm
Its been more than a month since I last rode my bike - starting to get really bloody twitchy!

(http://www.abolton.co.za/upload/mybike_sm.JPG)

Really missing it, the poor thing is in pieces all over the place  :'(

Hopefully get the engine back this week - cant wait  :ricky:
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: dirtWarp on November 10, 2013, 08:56:26 am
If you need a fix, come ride my crf450.
You will be cured quick; 1km on crf ~ 10km on 610
 ;)
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: Straatkat on November 10, 2013, 09:26:19 am
Alan, be strong, we'll have a nice ride when it's together with a couple of other Husky maats. :)
It really sucks when you can't ride.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 10, 2013, 03:07:38 pm
If you need a fix, come ride my crf450.
You will be cured quick; 1km on crf ~ 10km on 610
 ;)

Jeesh so the 450 is that uncomfortable hey?  :o :biggrin:



But thanks for the offer and the thoughts guys  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: blazes on November 10, 2013, 05:27:20 pm
Alan, be strong, we'll have a nice ride when it's together with a couple of other Husky maats. :)
It really sucks when you can't ride.

Saw Sidetrack Saturday going down Hans Strijdom in the afternoon ---- Bike sounding goo with that pipe on  ;)

We did a quick 200km in may backyard Today ---- was groot Pret  ::)
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 16, 2013, 04:19:30 pm
Got my engine back on Thursday, but only had a few minutes to work on it yesterday evening - just got it back into the frame that's all :thumleft:

Today I've been fussing around it like a mother hen, its fantastic!  More and more bits are being cleaned and re-installed.  Hopefully will be finished tomorrow.  Have to go out tonight though.

A few points for others to look at while I remember.

The swing arm bolt was very rusted.  Its difficult to replace because its a non standard size having to sit inside a tube its smaller than normal because you have enough space to get a socket in - the local nut and bolt place just shook their heads when I asked them for a replacement.  It fits a 22 socket while a standard nut that size fits a 24 socket. 

So I gave mine a thorough going over with a wire brush, it was quite pitted but still functionally fine.  I smeared it in thick wheel bearing grease to stop it rusting in future and re-used it.  I would advise others to just check theirs and do the same if necessary.  It sits behind a little plastic cover inside a tube so the water obviously doesn't drain out of there easily - perfect conditions for rust. 
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: buzzlightyear on November 16, 2013, 06:07:04 pm
so what was the issue in the end?
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 17, 2013, 08:49:40 am
so what was the issue in the end?

We think it was just the nut on the right hand side of the crankshaft which came a bit loose.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 18, 2013, 07:23:09 am
Started my engine last night - started virtually first try.

It was late so I just let it idle for a few minutes.

Sounded very nice!  :ricky:

So roll-on the weekend!
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: Rough Rider on November 18, 2013, 08:57:20 am
You took your engine out to tighten that nut  :o
I did not even drop the oil out of mine when I tightened it, let alone take the engine out. 
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: buzzlightyear on November 18, 2013, 09:29:00 am
Glad it's sorted Alan1!
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 18, 2013, 09:39:51 am
You took your engine out to tighten that nut  :o
I did not even drop the oil out of mine when I tightened it, let alone take the engine out. 

Ja I know - pretty stupid!  :P

At the time the consensus was a crank shaft  or a conrod bearing.  That's what it sounded like.

I did take the clutch cover off and had a look, but it didn't occur to me to test the nut for tightness.

Oh well - live and learn!

I'm just glad it wasn't anything major and its back in one piece again, was getting a bit forlorn with it all in pieces.

Also was quite a nice exercise taking all apart, getting to know the bike a bit better.

But i cant wait to ride it next weekend.
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: Straatkat on November 18, 2013, 01:38:51 pm
Alan, glad the bike is sorted, hindsight is 20/20. Any landing you can walk away from was a good landing!
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: BiG DoM on November 18, 2013, 07:03:41 pm
Good one Alan - any chance of some pics of engine removal etc? Would be great to have a bit of a tutorial  ::)
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 19, 2013, 08:34:49 pm
Sorry, I was pressed for time both on the engine removal and re-installtion so didn't take any photos.

But have to say its pretty straight forward and if you really wanted to push it you could take the engine out (or put it back in) from scratch in about an hour. 

I take much longer than that because I fuss around checking stuff and cleaning, greasing, measuring and generally being a geek.

But its an easy bike to work on.

I have few last little things to do and its basically finished.

 
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 25, 2013, 11:12:28 am
Had a fantastic ride on Sunday  :ricky: :ricky:

The bike is going very well, took it slow and easy to start with , but sort of forgot about the recently opened engine after an hour or so.  Very smooth, and quiet and going very nicely  :thumleft:

Quite rusty after an extended break - so had a few moments  :o  Recon my boot saved me from some sort of nasty twist/sprain/break, when I was a bit too exuberant powering along a thick sand berm behind Mamelodi mountain - the front lifted and then fell sideways, stuck my foot out and had it wrenched/twisted quite violently, but apart from a slight ache on the way home its fine, could have been unpacking the crutches again  :P, so very thankful!

(http://www.abolton.co.za/upload/P1010769.JPG)


(http://www.abolton.co.za/upload/P1010770.JPG)


(http://www.abolton.co.za/upload/P1010771.JPG)

Soooo glad to be riding again!
Title: Re: Knock in my engine
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 01:45:54 pm
Just a quick thumbs up for Conrad and OffRoad Cycles.

They did a great job and what I really appreciated is the level of care they took, you don't always get someone who cares about your engine the way you do.

Also appreciate them picking the engine up and dropping it off  :thumleft:

All for a very reasonable price!