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General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: Mikie on November 20, 2013, 10:51:20 am

Title: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 20, 2013, 10:51:20 am
So its been announced!!
let the games begin
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 20, 2013, 10:57:08 am
At last! Can't wait to see them try to collect money from users. See news report on news24 and readers comments.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 20, 2013, 11:12:47 am
Yes please send me my bill .
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Divot on November 20, 2013, 11:14:27 am
 :happy1:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 20, 2013, 11:16:05 am
:happy1:

Your turn is coming  :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Divot on November 20, 2013, 11:20:22 am
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 20, 2013, 11:20:57 am
What's e_toll ?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 20, 2013, 11:21:29 am
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching

I have no doubt, but also certain they will try implement around the country as well
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 20, 2013, 11:22:04 am
What's e_toll ?

Its not a Toli
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 20, 2013, 11:24:43 am
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching

I have no doubt, but also certain they will try implement around the country as well

There is no doubt that if they get it right here in Gauteng it is only a matter of time that the rest of the provinces will get it. They will have set a precedent.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Alan on November 20, 2013, 11:26:35 am
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching

I have no doubt, but also certain they will try implement around the country as well

There is no doubt that if they get it right here in Gauteng it is only a matter of time that the rest of the provinces will get it. They will have set a precedent.

fixed.  >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 20, 2013, 11:29:13 am
http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2013/11/19/1.4-million-e-tags-remain-unsold-minister (http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2013/11/19/1.4-million-e-tags-remain-unsold-minister)

"Sanral procured 2,107,000 e-tags over the past three years; [a total of] 1,427,900 have not been allocated," she said in a written reply to a parliamentary question.

The figures imply 679,100 e-tags have been sold.

Six weeks ago, Sanral CEO Nazir Ali said 600,000 e-toll tags were in circulation.

In September, President Jacob Zuma signed into law the Transport Laws and Related Matters Amendment Bill, giving Sanral the nod to start e-tolling on Gauteng's freeways.

In her reply, Peters said Sanral had spent about R25.3 million during the period January to October this year on campaigns to encourage the public to buy e-tags.

This was in addition to about R11.3m spent in November and December last year.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 20, 2013, 11:30:00 am
PRETORIA - Minister of Transport Dipou Peters at a special briefing today announced that the e-toll system will officially go live on 3 December 2013.

The South African National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) has halved the cost of tariffs to motorists who have registered and received their e-tags.

The minister said, “We acted as a responsible government. We have learned many lessons from listening to the public.”

According to the Peters, the highway network was a “ticking time bomb waiting to explode” and
“reaching crisis point”.

Before making the announcement Peters said, “Gauteng is the economic hub of the country. Growth can't happen without infrastructure, including roads.”

http://ewn.co.za/2013/11/20/E-toll-launch-date-announced (http://ewn.co.za/2013/11/20/E-toll-launch-date-announced)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 20, 2013, 11:36:49 am
this is going to be the best show on earth  :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Brenny on November 20, 2013, 11:43:11 am
I will not be tagged!




┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

Bastards
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistol on November 20, 2013, 11:43:33 am
Great cannot wait to receive my first account O0 Here I am over here :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: wiledog_X on November 20, 2013, 11:48:29 am
fun and games, soon!

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1403176_10152408608918065_1519765163_o.jpg)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 20, 2013, 11:59:03 am
FUCK'EM!! I WILL NOT BUY THEIR FUCKEN BULLSHIT! FUCK THAT BULLFROG LOOKING BASTARD AND HIS FUCKEN E_TOLL!  :angry4: :angry5: :angryfire:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RedWolf on November 20, 2013, 12:05:09 pm
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching
I wonder how entertaining it will be if all your food prices escalate as well. 90% of all truck transport routes go through Gauteng, so the tollgates will have a direct effect on all transport costs and thus prices of anything that are transported by truck in this country.

So, while you sit there laughing in the Western Cape and think it's entertaining, we are fighting this side for your financial benefit as well.. :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 20, 2013, 12:06:25 pm
Die farken bastards gaan my maar hof toe moet sleep.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: BFG on November 20, 2013, 12:07:23 pm
FUCK'EM!! I WILL NOT BUY THEIR FUCKEN BULLSHIT! FUCK THAT BULLFROG LOOKING BASTARD AND HIS FUCKEN E_TOLL!  :angry4: :angry5: :angryfire:
Feel quite strongly about this do you?  ;) :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 20, 2013, 12:08:14 pm
So, while you sit there laughing in the Western Cape and think it's entertaining, we are fighting this side for your financial benefit as well.. :deal:
Exactly! Prices will go up!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: luv2ride on November 20, 2013, 12:10:51 pm
Dit lyk so................









Dit ruik so....................













Hier kom kak.........
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KaTooMatt on November 20, 2013, 12:11:01 pm
They probably picked then to start as the roads will be mostly empty so it is easier to catch the non payers; number plate users or any other protest of any kind. I reckon we should arrange a WD BAT rally 7 or 8 December.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DR BIG 750 on November 20, 2013, 12:13:09 pm
FOKETOL :middlefinger:  KUFMUNT I  am bled dry
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 20, 2013, 12:15:12 pm
So they say we must pay within 7 days of passing through a gantry  :imaposer: WTf?
Firstly, bill me, secondly bill me within 7 days, thirdly  :middlefinger: SANRAL

This is going to become a financial and logistical nightmare for them if we all stand together and oppose them.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 12:16:43 pm
AT LAST!!

NOW the fun begins!  :lol8:

As long as enough people have the balls to use the highways WITHOUT e-tags and then wait for their accounts and query these for duplicate number plates, this corrupt system will fail

We don't have the postal system or the courts to make this work without e-tags

My only concern is that we do have the sheeple, that might just bend over and get screwed once again.... but let's hope for the best :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 20, 2013, 12:21:34 pm
FUCK'EM!! I WILL NOT BUY THEIR FUCKEN BULLSHIT! FUCK THAT BULLFROG LOOKING BASTARD AND HIS FUCKEN E_TOLL!  :angry4: :angry5: :angryfire:
Feel quite strongly about this do you?  ;) :imaposer:

Fok, you wouldn't believe!!  ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 20, 2013, 12:26:01 pm
Minister peters said motorists without e-tags will pay double. She should go back to school:
As far as i know, two times nought equals nought.

That is, if I pay - and it will take a few letters at least to convince me.  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ShadedGS on November 20, 2013, 12:29:12 pm
Ek F-ken weier.

Kom lewer daai faktuur persoonlik af - ek weier nog f-ken steeds.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 20, 2013, 12:29:51 pm
Minister peters said motorists without e-tags will pay double. She should go back to school:
As far as i know, two times nought equals nought.

That is, if I pay - and it will take a few letters at least to convince me.  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

 :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 20, 2013, 12:32:18 pm
Daai briewe gaan ek almal merk R.T.S (Return to Sender)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ShadedGS on November 20, 2013, 12:34:56 pm
stuur hom die kant toe.....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 20, 2013, 12:39:39 pm
Transport industry has calculated the toll fee levies already once this go live and will implement asap.

Have to - no way companies can absorb the additional cost without passing it on. Manufacturers will escalate their prices to compensate for the higher transport rate and retailers will adjust prices to compensate for higher costs price and /or transport.

And remember transport occurs on a few occasions in the supply chain
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 12:42:38 pm
Daai briewe gaan ek almal merk R.T.S (Return to Sender)

man, ek wil nog sien of die kak poskantoor sal kan cope - ek twyfel.... die fokken sleg goed hou mos ook nie van werk nie
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 12:44:23 pm
ek verwag dat OUTA binne die volgende paar dae inligting bekend sal maak van hoe die publiek sonder e-Tags die kak moet hanteer - Sanral sal seker 'n voorbeeld van iemand wil maak en ek is oortuig OUTA sal daardie persoon in die hof ondersteun
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 20, 2013, 01:05:23 pm
A few comments from news24:

(http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Minister-Motorists-without-e-tags-will-pay-double-20131120)

Minister: Motorists without e-tags will pay double
35 minutes ago Sapa   



Comment on this story

106 comments


Penelope De Witt Mills - November 20, 2013 at 11:54

Kiss my fat white a$$!

for 484 against 3

Ugogo Showerhead - November 20, 2013 at 11:58

EISH MAMA !!YOU CAN THREATEN AS MUCH AS YOU WANT, LIKE THE ANC I DON'T CARE A F..CK?? BAD LUCK TOO ALL THE CROOKS AND B.E.E...GOGO
 
For 322 against  1

Janine Roberts Owen - November 20, 2013 at 11:59

catch me, find me , send me lotsa mail. NEVER BUY AN E-TAG. EVER !!!!!

for 326 against 2

Mohammed Sadeck Gathoo - November 20, 2013 at 12:00

We are now being financially oppressed.

I said it then, and will say it now. The ANC has NEVER served the people. All they did was entrench their personal culture of self-preservation,and wealth accumulation.
The toilets and electricity that they keep boasting about, has got nothing to do with them. Any government would have been expected to do that. Whether it was the DA, COPE or any other party, this minuscule service delivery would have been there anyway, so not credit to the ANC in any way.
They have even elevated one of their leaders to almost God-like status, how despicable.

For 284 against  3

Janine Roberts Owen - November 20, 2013 at 12:01

you will NEVER , EVER get your hands into my bank account. oops sorry, took out 20.000 bucks fill out this form and we will look into it. never see your money again.DONT BUY AN E-TAG

For 215 against  1

Jamba - November 20, 2013 at 12:03

Sure? They going to pay? Who?

For 130 against  0

Koos Delusion - November 20, 2013 at 12:11

It was just a matter of time before Apartheid was to be blamed for this fiasco.

You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time.

For 214 against  2

Uitenhage Biz - November 20, 2013 at 12:17

400000 People who are are really Driving on those roads were against etoll. You can't force people against their will. People from other parts of the country Please also support and vote Against E-toll. Let US all stand together and vote against e-toll. Vote! Here helloweb co.za

For 111 against  0
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Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 20, 2013, 01:10:22 pm
ek verwag dat OUTA binne die volgende paar dae inligting bekend sal maak van hoe die publiek sonder e-Tags die kak moet hanteer - Sanral sal seker 'n voorbeeld van iemand wil maak en ek is oortuig OUTA sal daardie persoon in die hof ondersteun

OUTA het reeds gese dat dit is wat hulle sal doen .
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 20, 2013, 01:22:24 pm
"We have learnt many lessons from this project, one of them being that it will take some time to reverse the legacy of colonialism and apartheid planning," said Peters.

Yep they are reversing that planning at a blistering rate, at least in this instance they are achieving their goals  :pot:


Returning roads elsewhere in the country back to dirt roads or non-existent roads as it was before the bloody colonials
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MDT on November 20, 2013, 01:36:23 pm
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching
I wonder how entertaining it will be if all your food prices escalate as well. 90% of all truck transport routes go through Gauteng, so the tollgates will have a direct effect on all transport costs and thus prices of anything that are transported by truck in this country.

So, while you sit there laughing in the Western Cape and think it's entertaining, we are fighting this side for your financial benefit as well.. :deal:

Great point let me put it this way. Who in cape town drinks the following allot. Jagermeister, ZAPPA , TANG , Po10c , Lovoka (caramel vodka) , Stella Artois

Expect to factor the Etoll rates into those drinks when you next buy one and wonder why the price is double.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 01:43:03 pm
"We have learnt many lessons from this project, one of them being that it will take some time to reverse the legacy of colonialism and apartheid planning," said Peters.

Yep they are reversing that planning at a blistering rate, at least in this instance they are achieving their goals  :pot:


Returning roads elsewhere in the country back to dirt roads or non-existent roads as it was before the bloody colonials

the statements these cnuts make, the more harde-gat I will be
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 20, 2013, 01:47:16 pm
I agree with 100%.Maybe we should start acting like they used to and make the system ungovernable...  :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: jogi_c on November 20, 2013, 01:52:36 pm
I agree with 100%.Maybe we should start acting like they used to and make the system ungovernable...  :pot:

The beauty of passive resistance is that you do not have to do anything to make the system ungovernable. Just do not get a tag, do not react to the love letters and do not pay
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Draadwerk on November 20, 2013, 02:02:36 pm
One of our favourite pastimes in school many years ago, before I became all responsible and all and all, was to ride on your bike and see who can take out the most neon advertising boards in one lap of the street.

We used stones and ketties, but a decent shotgun should make easy on those cameras, or not? Just wondering...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 20, 2013, 02:10:10 pm
Guys... just be careful on making threats of damaging public property on line. :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ChrisMann on November 20, 2013, 02:12:28 pm
Oranje-blanje-blou...  :imaposer:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZECizhXT-Yo/UoymdRNmckI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/SeSdY9gW8Us/w630-h400-no/Sanral.jpg)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: columbus on November 20, 2013, 02:29:33 pm
if you don't pay your toll account you wont be able to renew your vehicle or drivers licence
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 02:33:58 pm
if you don't pay your toll account you wont be able to renew your vehicle or drivers licence

link?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: columbus on November 20, 2013, 02:35:48 pm
lady at the Krugersdorp licence dept
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ShadedGS on November 20, 2013, 02:39:38 pm
lady at the Krugersdorp licence dept

So what you're saying is that I not only don't have to buy a tag, but I get to skip the renewal fees too? Man this is sounding better by the minute!!  >:D >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Beebop on November 20, 2013, 02:41:12 pm
if you don't pay your toll account you wont be able to renew your vehicle or drivers licence
I dont see how these two are related. This would raise some serious law suits.
Restricting my ability to earn an income...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: wiledog_X on November 20, 2013, 02:41:30 pm
the faulty AARTO system is not linked to SANRAL, as far as i know.... would also like to know if they can legally withhold your vehicle license.  i can see that being challenged in court as they would be depriving you of your legal means of transport you use to earn a living. they could argue you could use public transport... but what public transport??
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Groenie on November 20, 2013, 02:44:17 pm
I will dispute any bill they send me. Send me a picture, clearly showing my number plate and the alleged time of toll road use for each transaction on your list. If you can't, I won't pay.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 02:46:09 pm
look, it might be possible that they will try that, but surely they can't refuse a licence when you are in a dispute with Sanral.

On the other hand, if the numbers are big enough, are they going to refuse a large % of the population licences?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 02:49:31 pm
I will dispute any bill they send me. Send me a picture, clearly showing my number plate and the alleged time of toll road use for each transaction on your list. If you can't, I won't pay.



that's the idea  :thumleft:

Can you imagine the administrative nightmare if enough people do that?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 20, 2013, 02:52:06 pm
if you don't pay your toll account you wont be able to renew your vehicle or drivers licence
I dont see how these two are related. This would raise some serious law suits.
Restricting my ability to earn an income...

and restricting your right of freedom of movement... hier kom 'n ConCourt fight een of ander tyd.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: sidetrack on November 20, 2013, 02:58:48 pm
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching
Gloat while you can we all live in the same country and these E-tolls will impact on us all.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 20, 2013, 03:00:31 pm
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching
Gloat while you can we all live in the same country and these E-tolls will impact on us all.

I thought the Western Cape was a country on their own???  :patch:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Shutter_Eye on November 20, 2013, 03:00:43 pm
E-tolling won't be too successful in the Northern Cape though...

The guys will Hilux a new road around the gates...

Yip, "Hilux" is a verb...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Divot on November 20, 2013, 03:16:07 pm
I am so glad I moved out of there many years ago.. This is going to be very entertaining for us.. watching
Gloat while you can we all live in the same country and these E-tolls will impact on us all.

I thought the Western Cape was a country on their own???  :patch:
They have been trying for many years already to get it right. I think if you guys get it unmanageable up in Gauteng they will have to have a long hard look at it moving forward. With that said it will still take many years for that to happen in Slaap Stad.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MDT on November 20, 2013, 03:44:22 pm
I havnt followed this hole thing. But what will happen when i go up as i do many times and rent a Avis car? Will i be billed by Avis afterwords or what happens? How can Avis or Etoll get me to pay?

And when i go up in my own car will i receive a bill in the post or what happens if us capies go there?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 20, 2013, 03:47:58 pm
I think the govt. has made a huge mistake here. this is the first chance for saffers to create a huge civil disobedience action. it's actually to our benefit, as there have been no other opportunities en mass to say fark you to the thieves and probably get away with it.  .

this is a positive thing for SA  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dieseldawie on November 20, 2013, 03:50:13 pm
I will dispute any bill they send me. Send me a picture, clearly showing my number plate and the alleged time of toll road use for each transaction on your list. If you can't, I won't pay.



Groenie thats exactly what happens every time you pass under a gantry. 2 or three photos are taken and time and date stamped. If you put your etag on another vehicle it detects exactly where that vehicle is and takes its photo. If you are registered and do not have your etag with you the amount charged is double.

You guys ought to feel sorry for us poor bastards living in Northern suburbs of PTA who have sponsored the whole Bakwena highway @ R8 to travel from Zambesi (Maak Gat Toe) Drive to N4 everyday for the last 11 years. So R16 a day x 22 work days = R352 a month to drive a 5km stretch of road each way each day. WHERE WAS ALL THE PROTEST THEN?? What makes it worse is that if I want to take the pokkin Gautrain I still have to go through the same R8 toll gate.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 20, 2013, 03:53:53 pm
I havnt followed this hole thing. But what will happen when i go up as i do many times and rent a Avis car? Will i be billed by Avis afterwords or what happens? How can Avis or Etoll get me to pay?

And when i go up in my own car will i receive a bill in the post or what happens if us capies go there?

They have your credit card details remember. So, they bill your credit card...

As for your own car, yes, you will get it in the post, but do us all a favour...? PLEASE DO NOT PAY THE FARKIN THING...?  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 20, 2013, 04:13:23 pm
look, it might be possible that they will try that, but surely they can't refuse a licence when you are in a dispute with Sanral.

On the other hand, if the numbers are big enough, are they going to refuse a large % of the population licences?
if it is possible on an administration level and legally possible viable I would suggest that all road users renew their licenses now, small mandelas to fork out in the bigger picture. this would make life a living hell for the licensing departments and for sanral . imagine if 80% of vehicles are licensed for a full year and sanral recieves non of those 80% or highway users income plus having to send out notices, admin processes, salaries, maintenance etc for a full year. eish etoll she is broken.

 but only in a perfect world.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dookie on November 20, 2013, 04:20:07 pm
OK, hypothetically speaking, let's say I have this friend, that has a nephew with a trucking business in Namibia.
So this friend( all still hypothetically speaking) obtains some Nam number plates for his own daily transport in Gauteng.

How would the SANRAL schmucks deal with that?

Hypothetically speaking, off course.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 20, 2013, 04:23:17 pm
I think the govt. has made a huge mistake here. this is the first chance for saffers to create a huge civil disobedience action. it's actually to our benefit, as there have been no other opportunities en mass to say fark you to the thieves and probably get away with it.  .

this is a positive thing for SA  :thumleft:
I agree but only if we topple this and keep on fighting it. seems saffers are falling into the same trap as in the past, protest protest have pressure put on from the government and then suffer for years until there is some mobilisation of the masses and international pressure. then the goverment bends. I  this case I see this as the first step by government to start suppressing the people of this country. there will be worse to come if etolls are successful.  so now is the time for us not to give I  to this . Mr Shower Head has now given his approval, this has now become political and nothing to do with the functioning of a country. it is a power grab.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 20, 2013, 04:28:25 pm
OK, hypothetically speaking, let's say I have this friend, that has a nephew with a trucking business in Namibia.
So this friend( all still hypothetically speaking) obtains some Nam number plates for his own daily transport in Gauteng.

How would the SANRAL schmucks deal with that?

Hypothetically speaking, off course.
hypothetically, what if I nick your number plate ans ride around with that? how will they deal with that. the wont, you will still be charged and held liable.

now this scenario bothers me, in reality this will be done. What do we do, keep our vehicles locked up to make sure no one steals our plates. the powers that be have not thought this through. idiots.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Inprogress on November 20, 2013, 04:55:27 pm
When push comes to shove, I hope saffers will this time shove back.

Not being able to renew your license cause you haven't paid your e-tolls, then so be it....you are protesting...you are sacrificing. Get another fine because you don't have a valid license....again you are protesting....you are sacrificing.

Multiply that by 1.5million....bend over ANC!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Inprogress on November 20, 2013, 04:56:50 pm
Hey...just had a thought. What if we around the country refuse to renew our motor vehicle licenses in protest. Imagine, 10 million people not renewing around the country....OK, 20 million not renewing all in protest. And, each of us insist on going to court for it to explain to the judge why we refuse to pay the license.

This way, we all protest and sacrifice.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DRAZIL on November 20, 2013, 05:15:38 pm
I cannot see South Africans standing together but here is a great opportunity for all South African rainbow nation to set aside their differences and stop the anc blaming apartheid shit government that keeps everyone divided to make a stand against their corruption......

anyway,I wonder how many companies will use the E-tolls to dismiss/retrench some of their driftwood union staff
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 20, 2013, 06:36:53 pm
You guys have very vivid imaginations. It's very, very simple - don't buy an e-tag! And then watch Scumbags Inc jump through hoops.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 07:11:42 pm
 ;) ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: toucan on November 20, 2013, 10:15:50 pm
i propose a fund for the first person to spend time in jail for not paying an e-toll bill. everybody puts money in a bank account until the first person has spent 12hours or more in official custody for an e-toll offence (adventurer must pay his speed fines like the rest of us). i won't be contributing because i'm a lazy, apathetic south african. have a nice day...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 20, 2013, 10:37:09 pm
i propose a fund for the first person to spend time in jail for not paying an e-toll bill. everybody puts money in a bank account until the first person has spent 12hours or more in official custody for an e-toll offence (adventurer must pay his speed fines like the rest of us). i won't be contributing because i'm a lazy, apathetic south african. have a nice day...

I doubt if anybody will spend any time in jail for e-toll offences  ::)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Lourens ツ on November 20, 2013, 10:49:20 pm
A facebook post by https://www.facebook.com/AgainstEtollJHB (https://www.facebook.com/AgainstEtollJHB)

HOW TO LEGALLY NOT PAY FOR eTOLLS

So kids, by way of a public service announcement, here is a 100% legal, fully above board way to NOT pay e-tolls....

1) Do not buy an eTag.

2) After the first 4-6 weeks of passing through toll gantries, send SANRAL a registered letter, expressing your concern, that for the last 4- 6 weeks you have not received a payment request from them. You must state that you are COMPLETELY willing to pay the toll fees, but this cannot be carried out without a detailed invoice. Unreliable postal services could be to blame, so please would they send you your invoice by registered mail, to ensure you receive it. (This is a fully legal AARTO requirement for any letter of demand.)

3) Make a photocopy of your letter, get a COMMISSIONER OF OATHS to stamp the copy, and keep your registered mail receipt. Such a request could take months to be settled, and if you are fortunate, never at all due to the sheer volume of similar requests received. Should you finally receive a notification that a registered letter has arrived for you, take as long as possible to collect it. This method is based upon the fact that they do not use registered mail to send invoices. If one considers the past history of all traffic fines received, these all arrive by normal mail to prevent the high costs of registering letters.

4)Should SANRAL surprisingly, after a lengthy period, comply with (1) above, then send them a second CERTIFIED letter by registered post, requesting that they send you a photograph for every single gantry you have passed under for that month, proving that is was your car you that is being invoiced.( Perfectly legal and reasonable request from any motorist ). Such photographs obviously, you must request to also be sent by registered mail to ensure delivery. Also takes weeks to collect such registered mail, should it in the unlikely event, ever be posted. Explain that you have heard that certain motorists are using illegal false number plates and you therefore require the photographs to prove that it is definitely your cat that is being charged. Such a request could takes months to be settled, or if you are very fortunate, never. Consider the sheer volume of requests they should by now have received. If their system is not set up for such requests, which I am almost positive is the case. (Hope I am not wrong on this one) Can you imagine the difficulties and problem they will have, in trying to MANUALLY comply with the thousands upon thousands of similar requests received. To be really difficult, how about querying some of the less clear photographs taken at night. Even if they come back to you asserting that the photographs are in their opinion, all perfectly readable, further delays will have been successfully applied.

5) Should SANRAL try to speed up communications by requesting your e-mail or fax number, or send you SMS’s, or trying direct contact by phone, I have considered very simple ways of negating each of such requests. I am not mentioning any of these methods, as I want to keep this article 100% above board, and free of any questionable actions.

6)In the unlikely event that all the above somehow be resolved, than obviously pay, but only for that particular month under review.

7)Start the whole lengthy procedure all over again, 4-6 weeks after the termination of the second month’s toll fees due. Continue with the same, for every individual month that follows.

Shouldnt take long for the whole system to fall over, if just 10% of the drivers do this,..
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 12:48:37 pm
I WILL NOT PAY E-TOLLS!



http://www.youtube.com/v/i5bFZezmmEw
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Frog on November 21, 2013, 01:13:54 pm
All of us have a responsibility to convince family and friends not to get E-Tags. Many do not belong to forums where things like this are discussed.
My mother was all for going to get her E-Tag after hearing the announcement yesterday. She was worried that she would be breaking the law!
I have now convinced her not to buy one for at least the next six months
This needs to be a rolling mass action
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 01:22:13 pm
All of us have a responsibility to convince family and friends not to get E-Tags. Many do not belong to forums where things like this are discussed.
My mother was all for going to get her E-Tag after hearing the announcement yesterday. She was worried that she would be breaking the law!
I have now convinced her not to buy one for at least the next six months
This needs to be a rolling mass action

exactly!  :thumleft:

I personally know nobody who has or intends to get an e-tag - many people still don't fully understand the MAIN reason why this should be opposed - it's very simple actually..... it is the most inefficient revenue collection system known, so it is wasting our taxes by more than R650m/year - it is one tax too many
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ShadedGS on November 21, 2013, 01:22:40 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 01:24:41 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)

I've seen that - It's called bullying - I'm paying nothing and am prepared to go to court, where I will have the support of OUTA and many others
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 21, 2013, 01:52:07 pm
WTF??

Whats a Standard Tarrif?
Registered user - has E-tag
Whats an Alternate user??

 :eek7:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 21, 2013, 01:55:17 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Or anyone from outside Gauteng for that matter. Blatant discrimination!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 21, 2013, 01:57:55 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Or anyone from outside Gauteng for that matter. Blatant discrimination!

More like daylight robbery
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 21, 2013, 02:28:09 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Or anyone from outside Gauteng for that matter. Blatant discrimination!

More like daylight robbery

Fark that is expensive!!

But I call bluffing maybe??  Have a look at this site http://tollcalc.sanral.co.za/etoll/ (http://tollcalc.sanral.co.za/etoll/) , you can calculate you e-toll fees. They don't have an option there for "alternate user"

If this is true, and I don't want to be a doom prophet, but I can't see how many people will resist getting an e-tag for too long.

BUT, I will not fall for their scare tactics!!! :dousing:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 21, 2013, 02:29:37 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Or anyone from outside Gauteng for that matter. Blatant discrimination!

There goes Gauteng tourism... ::)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 21, 2013, 02:30:33 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Or anyone from outside Gauteng for that matter. Blatant discrimination!

There goes Gauteng tourism... ::)
Apparently if youre not from here you can buy a day pass
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 21, 2013, 02:39:05 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Or anyone from outside Gauteng for that matter. Blatant discrimination!
Knew I should have kept my bakkie registered in Mpumalanga. I wonder how many day passes one can get in a month?  :biggrin:

There goes Gauteng tourism... ::)
Apparently if youre not from here you can buy a day pass
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 21, 2013, 03:28:51 pm
I WILL NOT PAY E-TOLLS!



http://www.youtube.com/v/i5bFZezmmEw

Share this on fb, and make it go viral. I watched it and saw only 2 people viewed this, so this is very new on youtube. Thanks for sharing Bundu!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 21, 2013, 03:36:58 pm
This has done the rounds on FB, maybe someone just posted it again under the tube a/c?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 03:44:21 pm
This has done the rounds on FB, maybe someone just posted it again under the tube a/c?

yes, but it was only released today and can be confused with the one that was launched some time ago - this is the 1st official video where OUTA says "don't PAY e-tolls"
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 21, 2013, 03:57:02 pm
Ah I see it is a new one - then better get the word out - just saw the sketching and thought it was the previous one
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 21, 2013, 04:03:23 pm
Makes my blood boil!

Its going to be real test of our democracy.  Will we buckle and just let the government comfortably rape us?  Or will we stand firm?

If we stand together there is nothing they can do - they cant force people to pay when they all wont.  If we let them divide and conquer then, this will just be then first of many such schemes.  

I really hope we can find it in ourselves to stand together and not just scatter - taking the path of least resistance.

They are doing exactly what I thought they would do, just using the price to make people think twice about resisting - its so simple!

But the cost to the economy is just bloody crippling!  

Just do this little excercise - add up all the money you pay extra on a monthly basis due to the poor government we are blessed with - private security, private school fees, medical aid, electricity, muncipal rate increases without matching services etc etc.  Now multiply that by 12.  That's how much poorer you are per annum ALREADY than you should be.  Disposable income is what makes the economy grow, putting money in everyone's pockets which can be invested and spent on other stuff other than just the basics - which is the source of growth and national wealth.  But by voraciously consuming the disposable income of its citizens, the government kills growth and makes everyone poorer - eventually there just isn't any spare money left, they have consumed it all - and we end up another poor developing country relying on international aid to even do the bloody basics, with a few mega rich politicians living the life of rock stars.  That's what this scheme represents to me!

IT HAS TO STOP.  The question is will we have the balls to stop it now, while we have a good reason to and people are all focused on it, or are we going to let the opportunity slip by?

Our country will be better off if we do.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 21, 2013, 04:06:16 pm
There will be blood..... :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 21, 2013, 04:10:01 pm
There will be blood..... :thumleft:

oh dear.
are your hemorrhoids ok?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 21, 2013, 04:14:43 pm
All you ALTERNATE road users, as defined by SANRAL - have a look at the below....

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/92077-final-e-toll-prices-revealed.html)

(P.S - alternate is described as unregistered and without an e-tag - like me.)
Or anyone from outside Gauteng for that matter. Blatant discrimination!

There goes Gauteng tourism... ::)
Apparently if youre not from here you can buy a day pass
Why should I have to bother with that? >:(
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: volroom on November 21, 2013, 04:15:26 pm
The problem is how do we get this message to the masses. That's where efforts should be focused. If we stand together, no one can stop us.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 04:16:39 pm
what amazes me, is the unwillingness of the ANC to negotiate around the funding model for the GFIP - they would have been so much better off in the public eye, if they considered a fuel levy - this is also so close to the next elections, that I'm 100% sure that there are high up politicians involved in corruption with the collection companies
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 21, 2013, 04:18:29 pm
what amazes me, is the unwillingness of the ANC to negotiate around the funding model for the GFIP - they would have been so much better off in the public eye, if they considered a fuel levy - this is also so close to the next elections, that I'm 100% sure that there are high up politicians involved in corruption with the collection companies
Exactly...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DRAZIL on November 21, 2013, 04:20:28 pm
The problem is how do we get this message to the masses. That's where efforts should be focused. If we stand together, no one can stop us.

time for all the people to swallow their pride and ask all the unions,youth groups,opposition party's,religious leaders to make a mass stand against the violation and corruption.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Laban on November 21, 2013, 04:33:08 pm
The problem is how do we get this message to the masses. That's where efforts should be focused. If we stand together, no one can stop us.

time for all the people to swallow their pride and ask all the unions,youth groups,opposition party's,religious leaders to make a mass stand against the violation and corruption.

now were's tutu when we need him...? :(
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 21, 2013, 04:33:21 pm
what amazes me, is the unwillingness of the ANC to negotiate around the funding model for the GFIP - they would have been so much better off in the public eye, if they considered a fuel levy - this is also so close to the next elections, that I'm 100% sure that there are high up politicians involved in corruption with the collection companies

1)  - they have unilaterally decided on this and will show us who is boss
2)  - they are liable to Kapisch regardless off whether it goes ahead or not
3)  - their kickbacks are dependent on it going ahead
4)  - their pensions is tied up in the scheme.

They will not scrap this without a fight
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: volroom on November 21, 2013, 04:34:26 pm
what amazes me, is the unwillingness of the ANC to negotiate around the funding model for the GFIP - they would have been so much better off in the public eye, if they considered a fuel levy - this is also so close to the next elections, that I'm 100% sure that there are high up politicians involved in corruption with the collection companies

I also thought about that... I could not understand why they would enact etolling system soon before elections..does not make sense. unless, like you say, there are some vested interests from certain individuals. Imagine this to be true, and it was exposed.  
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 21, 2013, 04:36:31 pm
The problem is how do we get this message to the masses. That's where efforts should be focused. If we stand together, no one can stop us.

time for all the people to swallow their pride and ask all the unions,youth groups,opposition party's,religious leaders to make a mass stand against the violation and corruption.

Lets call it the United Democratic Front...... A first time for everything.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: wiledog_X on November 21, 2013, 04:38:23 pm
notice the huge disparity between e-tag and non e-tag. It's clear that they are so desperate to have you on the system because the administration involved in billing each
separate non e-tag user is enormous. If non-compliance is higher than something like 40% this flawed system falls flat.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 04:49:28 pm
I just discovered today (on the new Tshwane e-billing website) that I got a fine on 17Sep13 on N1 NORTH, BROMHOF, RANDBURG with my bike......

Fuckal in the post....

Let's see if they can deliver MILLIONS of accounts for e-tolling with our postal service...  ::)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DRAZIL on November 21, 2013, 04:57:48 pm
what amazes me, is the unwillingness of the ANC to negotiate around the funding model for the GFIP - they would have been so much better off in the public eye, if they considered a fuel levy - this is also so close to the next elections, that I'm 100% sure that there are high up politicians involved in corruption with the collection companies

1)  - they have unilaterally decided on this and will show us who is boss
2)  - they are liable to Kapisch regardless off whether it goes ahead or not
3)  - their kickbacks are dependent on it going ahead
4)  - their pensions is tied up in the scheme.

They will not scrap this without a fight

they already have their pension funds and secondary retirement houses next to Mugabe's in Switzerland.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 21, 2013, 05:26:11 pm
am i right in saying , that , with this latest release of the tolling prices , that our illustrious SANRAL and government , has lied to not only us , but also the constitutional court

i am sure the new figures are different to the ones that were posted last time , and therefore inaccurate "facts " were submitted to the public and courts previously

this is LYING , which as far as i know is a crime  ...... FRAUD


so  i am sure our public protector will be submitting an urgent request to our courts to halt any further sanral fraud


buttttt  i  might be wrong 

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: SmartyPants on November 21, 2013, 05:26:52 pm
Is there any E-tags for the taxis ? How are they going to know when are you a taxi and when private ? If there are, I AM A TAXI, want to apply !!!

I MEAN, TO GET E TAG IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO !!!!  :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 05:51:54 pm
Guys, please go vote here: The purpose is to show the doubters, that many won't get tags and will still use our roads

http://www.timeslive.co.za/#poll (http://www.timeslive.co.za/#poll)

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 05:53:12 pm
Is there any E-tags for the taxis ? How are they going to know when are you a taxi and when private ? If there are, I AM A TAXI, want to apply !!!

I MEAN, TO GET E TAG IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO !!!!  :pot:

taxi's and other vehicles that will travel toll-free (user pays principle WTF!!) will have to get an e-tag and register the tag as toll-free
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 05:54:03 pm
am i right in saying , that , with this latest release of the tolling prices , that our illustrious SANRAL and government , has lied to not only us , but also the constitutional court

i am sure the new figures are different to the ones that were posted last time , and therefore inaccurate "facts " were submitted to the public and courts previously

this is LYING , which as far as i know is a crime  ...... FRAUD


so  i am sure our public protector will be submitting an urgent request to our courts to halt any further sanral fraud


buttttt  i  might be wrong 



who gives a shit about little white lies in court when your president is a criminal?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 21, 2013, 05:57:43 pm
am i right in saying , that , with this latest release of the tolling prices , that our illustrious SANRAL and government , has lied to not only us , but also the constitutional court

i am sure the new figures are different to the ones that were posted last time , and therefore <a class="ktg6us78hf8vdu7" href="javascript:void(0)">inaccurate[/url] "facts " were submitted to the public and courts previously

this is LYING , which as far as i know is a crime  ...... FRAUD


so  i am sure our public protector will be submitting an urgent request to our courts to halt any further sanral <a class="ktg6us78hf8vdu7" href="javascript:void(0)">fraud[/url]


buttttt  i  might be wrong 



who gives a shit about little white lies in court when your president is a criminal?

i hear you ....... but , if what i said is correct , and if our judiciary has any shred of credibility left , then there is surely going to be a huge court case now ........... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dookie on November 21, 2013, 06:13:04 pm
Is there any E-tags for the taxis ? How are they going to know when are you a taxi and when private ? If there are, I AM A TAXI, want to apply !!!

I MEAN, TO GET E TAG IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO !!!!  :pot:
Mefinks I just found my solution.

I gonna clone a taxi's plates, steal one of Punisher's blow up dolls for pillion purposes, and thus have a KTM Taxi.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 21, 2013, 06:36:21 pm
Is there any E-tags for the taxis ? How are they going to know when are you a taxi and when private ? If there are, I AM A TAXI, want to apply !!!

I MEAN, TO GET E TAG IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO !!!!  :pot:
Mefinks I just found my solution.

I gonna clone a taxi's plates, steal one of Punisher's blow up dolls for pillion purposes, and thus have a KTM Taxi.

 my dolls have taste .........  they wont bee seen .... inflated on a KTM ,  you gonna have to get a beemer first  :)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 21, 2013, 07:11:02 pm
The arrogant power hungry imbeciles.....

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/DA-e-toll-billboards-destructive-ANC-20131121 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/DA-e-toll-billboards-destructive-ANC-20131121)

What did they think.....  Jeez, the arrogance....

Next year's election is going to be a shock for the leeches.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: BlueBull2007 on November 21, 2013, 08:35:49 pm
The arrogant power hungry imbeciles.....

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/DA-e-toll-billboards-destructive-ANC-20131121 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/DA-e-toll-billboards-destructive-ANC-20131121)

What did they think.....  Jeez, the arrogance....

Next year's election is going to be a shock for the leeches.

What do you think the masses have to say about this KR? I m not in-country but am very curious about it.

I wonder what will happen to the state worka's pensions when they become due and are not there....thats quite a headache for the DA if they should win dont you think? Or am I getting ahead of myself.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 21, 2013, 08:46:02 pm
AFAIK the state pension fund put in around R16B and I would imagine that is not such a significant part of their total - The govt will have to stand in for that money, if e-tolls collapse - they can recover that money through a fuel levy

We can't keep throwing good money after bad forever and ever, just because this was a kak idea - we need to cancel the contract with those scheming Austrians and fund our shit the right way - it will mean that a couple of thousand jobs that were running this inefficient farce will be lost, but they were never supposed to be created in any case


If govt stops stealing and wasting tax payers money for only one year, we can pay the GFIP off in one shot
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 21, 2013, 09:57:58 pm
The arrogant power hungry imbeciles.....

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/DA-e-toll-billboards-destructive-ANC-20131121 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/DA-e-toll-billboards-destructive-ANC-20131121)

What did they think.....  Jeez, the arrogance....

Next year's election is going to be a shock for the leeches.

What do you think the masses have to say about this KR? I m not in-country but am very curious about it.

I wonder what will happen to the state worka's pensions when they become due and are not there....thats quite a headache for the DA if they should win dont you think? Or am I getting ahead of myself.

On the online forums a lot of black okes who traditionally supported the anc are fedup and ready to vote for someone else.  But, as i mentioned before, they are not prepared to vote for the DA which is viewed as a white man's party. EFF may get some votes from these quarters, but i seriously think the time is right for a fresh new moderate party without any baggage. Moderate ex-anc supporters dont have a feasible alternative at the moment, which is a pity.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: n0b0dy on November 22, 2013, 02:28:57 am
hahahahah what a croc of shit... even IF this does roll out in The north... There is NO way it will ever swing in EC.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Draad on November 22, 2013, 05:10:46 am
One thing saying your say ... lets see if the South Africans "can" stand together  :thumleft:

I wonder how many soft cock Gautengers have their e tags ready ... ( KR maybe you ?  :imaposer: )

We will see wont we !! This will be the first in History !!

Joburg make us proud  :3some: :3some: :3some: if you guys succeed the whole country wins but if you guys go soft cock we are all stuffed...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Goose on November 22, 2013, 06:09:42 am
......................./´¯/)
.....................,/¯..//
...................../..../ /
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`•¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´(..´......,~/'...')
.........\.................\/..../
..........''...\.......... _.•´
............\..............(
..............\.............\ salute the corrupted government!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 22, 2013, 06:42:32 am
One thing saying your say ... lets see if the South Africans "can" stand together  :thumleft:

I wonder how many soft cock Gautengers have their e tags ready ... ( KR maybe you ?  :imaposer: )

We will see wont we !! This will be the first in History !!

Joburg make us proud  :3some: :3some: :3some: if you guys succeed the whole country wins but if you guys go soft cock we are all stuffed...


Ou dratie, I'm many things in this life, but never a soft cock :thumleft: :biggrin:

I will never pay for etolls - never, ever fuck em.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 22, 2013, 07:36:21 am
My faith in my fellow man , on isues such as these, is somewhat lacking , I must admit , but come on people spread the word , get everyone to do all that they can to be heard , boycot shops that sell e-tags. Continue discussions with friends and family. Treat dickheads with e_tags like drug and kiddie porn merchants

Maybe , just maybe this can be folded
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kykdaar on November 22, 2013, 07:44:44 am
Realistically, regular highway commuters will fold under the punitive non-tag rates.

It seems to me that a legal challenge should also be made on the basis that the tariff difference between tag and no tag is not justified.

I expect to see a stampede for tags in Jan / Feb when the financial reality begins to bite.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Tr0jan on November 22, 2013, 07:52:54 am
Realistically, regular highway commuters will fold under the punitive non-tag rates.

It seems to me that a legal challenge should also be made on the basis that the tariff difference between tag and no tag is not justified.

I expect to see a stampede for tags in Jan / Feb when the financial reality begins to bite.

Unfortunatley I think you are right. Once I reach that point ill consider my alternatives, but im still not paying!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 22, 2013, 08:02:27 am
my daugther is at Varsity in P town... BUT she will not get a tag.  If she wants to go to Menlyn she must do the back routes.  PUNT
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Goose on November 22, 2013, 08:07:52 am
my daugther is at Varsity in P town... BUT she will not get a tag.  If she wants to go to Menlyn she must do the back routes.  PUNT

This leads me to believe that if the majority starts avoiding the Tollroads........ these okes are going to ensure that no maintenance is carried out on the secondary roads ......... once they deteriorate substantially most would be forced back on the Toll.........   ???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 22, 2013, 08:11:47 am
my daugther is at Varsity in P town... BUT she will not get a tag.  If she wants to go to Menlyn she must do the back routes.  PUNT

This leads me to believe that if the majority starts avoiding the Tollroads........ these okes are going to ensure that no maintenance is carried out on the secondary roads ......... once they deteriorate substantially most would be forced back on the Toll.........   ???

Would they now put a gantry on Lynwood road as well?  THINK NOT
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 08:23:27 am
Realistically, regular highway commuters will fold under the punitive non-tag rates.

It seems to me that a legal challenge should also be made on the basis that the tariff difference between tag and no tag is not justified.

I expect to see a stampede for tags in Jan / Feb when the financial reality begins to bite.

Unfortunatley I think you are right. Once I reach that point ill consider my alternatives, but im still not paying!

How legit are those new fees? Are they legal? I mean at this rate, whats to stop them from making it R50 per gantry if youre an alternate user, definitely force everyone to get tagged.  :eek7:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 22, 2013, 09:07:04 am
I was thinking about these rates last night.

If you look at what current legislation say about the rates, they may only increase it yearly and not more than inflation and CPI.

Now we all know that the current discounted rates will not make them a profit, they can not even get to break even point on those rates.

So how do they expect to make money ?

Clever they are..........................................................

I reckon the alternate rate is the actual rate (the figure is close to what they need to break even and make a profit)

So the increases will be based on the alternate rate - thus it will be as per legislation.

Remember that discounts is not a legal requirement, it is discretionary. Discounts are normally used as an incentive to get people onto a program/get them to start buying your product etc.

So how will they make money ?

All they need to do once enough people is registered, is to give less discount, or take away the discount altogether.

That is the only thing that makes sense cents  ;D

Otherwise what will the use be of a state subsidized system, which is actually suppose to make money ?

So I reckon, once you registered, you are well and truly fucked !

You need to look at the alternate rate and understand, that is where they need to be !!!

The discounts may be a powerful enticement now to rather register, but what are you going to do once discounts fall away ?

They are not obliged to give discounts indefinitely !!!

Gazette says :

The Gazette also states that adjustments to the tariffs and amounts can still be made.

"The increase will be determined by the minister and will not exceed the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for the preceeding 12 months."

I reckon there is their loophole, although the cannot increase rates exponentially, they can adjust tariifs and amounts.

Play around with discounts etc ?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 22, 2013, 09:16:30 am
BB quite correct, however it seems the people may actually have seen through this scam.

We are going up to visit family/friends for Xmas... will see if we get sent any invoices... :sip:
If we do we will query each transaction ad infinitum. >:D

Clog the system by using our rights as consumers and citizens I say. :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ptashark on November 22, 2013, 09:17:46 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 22, 2013, 09:20:42 am
Robc - not so sure if everyone is seeing it in that light, seems many are becoming fixated by the discounts and avoiding the alternate rate............
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 22, 2013, 09:27:07 am
Robc - not so sure if everyone is seeing it in that light, seems many are becoming fixated by the discounts and avoiding the alternate rate............
Then it is our job to get the word out.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 22, 2013, 09:41:06 am
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 22, 2013, 10:11:25 am
I still think that there is room for a legal challenge.

I really take my hat of to OUTA they stood up when everyone else was just squirming in their seats and trying to avoid the issue.

But I'm not overly impressed with their lawyers!

In my view the points they chose to fight on were really inane.  They seemed to focus only on the process that was followed trying to find a place where the government didn't complete it properly.

But actually the issue has nothing to do with the governments process!  Nobody is upset just because of some step in the process wasn't followed properly!

What about:
1) Our right to go to work untaxed - you cant tax someone before they have earned anything - but that is what this  amounts to.
2) General freedom of movement?
3) Double taxation
4) Right to privacy - these things are going to track your every move, the government will know where you are most of the time.  This was used to defeat a similar scheme in Hong Kong as far as I know.
5) Unwillingness of the government to curb waste, corruption and fraud which necessitates them needing more and more money to do less and less - surely we have a constitutional right to oppose new taxes when they are not using the existing taxes properly?  Especially when there are n amount of examples of how they are spending our taxes on themselves?

And a whole lot more reasons - why werent these used as the main reasons we are opposed to this farce?  That's what is actually making people unhappy!

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Groenie on November 22, 2013, 10:43:32 am
I'm starting the WDTA. All of you are invited join my new Taxi Association. We'll have a stupid sticker and our own funky hooter sound.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: volroom on November 22, 2013, 10:47:21 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 10:48:37 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off

Why would they need to steal when they can ust go make one with your reg on it???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: volroom on November 22, 2013, 10:52:51 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off

Why would they need to steal when they can ust go make one with your reg on it???

The need the papers of the vehicle to make number plate. Unless it's made illegally.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Tr0jan on November 22, 2013, 10:55:02 am
I'm starting the WDTA. All of you are invited join my new Taxi Association. We'll have a stupid sticker and our own funky hooter sound.

White walls on my "taxi" is where I draw the line, but im in! Does this mean we can use the yellow line now?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 10:55:42 am
We are going to see some interesting high profile court cases in Jan/Feb next year

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 10:57:50 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off

Why would they need to steal when they can ust go make one with your reg on it???

The need the papers of the vehicle to make number plate. Unless it's made illegally.

Its not that hard to find someone to make you one. I doubt the maker could be traced either
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 10:58:14 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off

Why would they need to steal when they can ust go make one with your reg on it???

The need the papers of the vehicle to make number plate. Unless it's made illegally.

it is estimated that between 5-10% of plates in Gauteng are duplicates - so there must be a way to make plates quite easily already
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:00:31 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off

Why would they need to steal when they can ust go make one with your reg on it???

The need the papers of the vehicle to make number plate. Unless it's made illegally.

it is estimated that between 5-10% of plates in Gauteng are duplicates - so there must be a way to make plates quite easily already
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:00:57 am
Ok I dont really but he cant be that hard to find
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 22, 2013, 11:03:24 am
So we sell a Freight Carrier with a Van Body on and wait up to 3 months in Limpopo to get the weight sorted and the MIB registered for the correct weight registration to take place.
In the meantime the owner of the truck drives with a permit.  The permit holder is us as the dealer.
Now how the hell are they going to do now? Send me the stuff and I must sort it out with the owner of the truck?

SE MOER
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:04:58 am
So we sell a Freight Carrier with a Van Body on and wait up to 3 months in Limpopo to get the weight sorted and the MIB registered for the correct weight registration to take place.
In the meantime the owner of the truck drives with a permit.  The permit holder is us as the dealer.
Now how the hell are they going to do now? Send me the stuff and I must sort it out with the owner of the truck?

SE MOER

Youre a law abiding citizen, you will  :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: volroom on November 22, 2013, 11:09:16 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off

Why would they need to steal when they can ust go make one with your reg on it???

The need the papers of the vehicle to make number plate. Unless it's made illegally.

Its not that hard to find someone to make you one. I doubt the maker could be traced either

Places were I've made np's before were adamant; they wanted ID, vehicle papers. But, I'm sure there will be some guys that do it illegally for a fee
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:14:24 am
I'll be majorly surprised if they manage to get all the bills to all the road users. Pretty sure that's not going to happen! And I expect number plate theft and fake plates to be a huge issue.

Me too... fake number plates, or stolen. We're supposed to pop-rivet them on now, think that's gonna stop them stealing it? I would imagine that one big jank on it will see it come off

Why would they need to steal when they can ust go make one with your reg on it???

The need the papers of the vehicle to make number plate. Unless it's made illegally.

Its not that hard to find someone to make you one. I doubt the maker could be traced either

Places were I've made np's before were adamant; they wanted ID, vehicle papers. But, I'm sure there will be some guys that do it illegally for a fee

Absolutely, they dont know you, you could work for the Govt or Carte Blanche for all they know, but if you looking for it you will find it guaranteed

When i did my last number plate I enquired about smaller ones etc, and they said nope its illegal, we arent allowed to do those, but there loads on bikes out there, someone does it
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Grrrr.... on November 22, 2013, 11:22:08 am
For those thinking of buying E-tags.... Remember, remember....

(http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Ged1Grrrr/Random/zumaville1eb_zps4c19c216.jpg) (http://s573.photobucket.com/user/Ged1Grrrr/media/Random/zumaville1eb_zps4c19c216.jpg.html)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Groenie on November 22, 2013, 11:22:51 am
Exactly who will be exempt from e-toll?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 22, 2013, 11:23:41 am
You never ask for a small numberplate, you ask for a "bar sign" - it is illegal to make smaller numberplates, but you can make any barsign you want  ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:31:02 am
You never ask for a small numberplate, you ask for a "bar sign" - it is illegal to make smaller numberplates, but you can make any barsign you want  ;)

A bar sign with someone elses reg on it  :laughing4: :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 11:32:36 am
Exactly who will be exempt from e-toll?

cops, army and most public transport are exempt
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 22, 2013, 11:38:45 am
Exactly who will be exempt from e-toll?

cops, army and most public transport are exempt
How is that going to work though? ::)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Groenie on November 22, 2013, 11:38:57 am
I see that exemption is not granted by default, you have to apply for it - after you've bought your e-tag
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 22, 2013, 11:42:07 am
So if I test a vehicle and I am on garage plates, how the fark will they trace me? Considering that it is an armored vehicle and the plate is not really visible... I am going to have a field day...  :ricky: :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 11:42:47 am
Exactly who will be exempt from e-toll?

cops, army and most public transport are exempt
How is that going to work though? ::)

AFAIK these groups will get an e-tag, but will get 100% discount on their rates
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 22, 2013, 11:43:22 am
So we sell a Freight Carrier with a Van Body on and wait up to 3 months in Limpopo to get the weight sorted and the MIB registered for the correct weight registration to take place.
In the meantime the owner of the truck drives with a permit.  The permit holder is us as the dealer.
Now how the hell are they going to do now? Send me the stuff and I must sort it out with the owner of the truck?

SE MOER

Youre a law abiding citizen, you will  :deal:

Are you sure?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 22, 2013, 11:44:27 am

AFAIK these groups will get an e-tag, but will get 100% discount on their rates
Aha... that is where the other 1.4 million tags will go. >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:45:36 am
So we sell a Freight Carrier with a Van Body on and wait up to 3 months in Limpopo to get the weight sorted and the MIB registered for the correct weight registration to take place.
In the meantime the owner of the truck drives with a permit.  The permit holder is us as the dealer.
Now how the hell are they going to do now? Send me the stuff and I must sort it out with the owner of the truck?

SE MOER

Youre a law abiding citizen, you will  :deal:

Are you sure?

The transport minister said it herself, we are all law abiding citizens who am I to argue?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:46:14 am
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 11:46:30 am

AFAIK these groups will get an e-tag, but will get 100% discount on their rates
Aha... that is where the other 1.4 million tags will go. >:D

nope, me thinks that's where most of the 700 000 have already gone  ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 22, 2013, 11:47:18 am

AFAIK these groups will get an e-tag, but will get 100% discount on their rates
Aha... that is where the other 1.4 million tags will go. >:D

nope, me thinks that's where most of the 700 000 have already gone  ;D
Could be... I bet all the G vehicles will also travel at Zero rate. :-[
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on November 22, 2013, 11:48:25 am
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

Take him/her out Mikie.  :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 22, 2013, 11:48:38 am

AFAIK these groups will get an e-tag, but will get 100% discount on their rates
Aha... that is where the other 1.4 million tags will go. >:D

nope, me thinks that's where most of the 700 000 have already gone  ;D

Eggzaccery, and because they will get no income from those tags, thats why they are so desperate to get the rest of us to buy and register.

Well they can suck my ...  er... exhaust pipe  :ricky:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 11:48:48 am

AFAIK these groups will get an e-tag, but will get 100% discount on their rates
Aha... that is where the other 1.4 million tags will go. >:D

nope, me thinks that's where most of the 700 000 have already gone  ;D
Could be... I bet all the G vehicles will also travel at Zero rate. :-[

not as far as I know - to them it doesn't really matter, as it's OUR money in any case - bastards!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:49:24 am

AFAIK these groups will get an e-tag, but will get 100% discount on their rates
Aha... that is where the other 1.4 million tags will go. >:D

nope, me thinks that's where most of the 700 000 have already gone  ;D
Could be... I bet all the G vehicles will also travel at Zero rate. :-[

It will definitely account for a large sum of those tags.
Avis was on the news last night also saying they will abide by the law and tag their cars, but people hiring cars have to pay a toll deposit, as far as I understand when hiring a car.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 11:50:24 am
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

Take him/her out Mikie.  :peepwall:

Shame, he actually a good guy, I just tease him about it all the time
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 11:52:24 am
Wayne Duvenage, the guy behind OUTA, used to be CEO of AVIS - he must be cringing!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 11:53:40 am
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

Take him/her out Mikie.  :peepwall:

Shame, he actually a good guy, I just tease him about it all the time

let's not forget there are a few Dogs here with e-tags - doubt they will readily admit after some here have gotten a spanking  ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fixit on November 22, 2013, 11:53:51 am
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

Take him/her out Mikie.  :peepwall:

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=97473.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=97473.0)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 22, 2013, 11:57:49 am
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

i bought one in January 2012 when the daughter went to Varsity.  BUT it was bought at Checkers and then you must activate it.

That i did not do.

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 22, 2013, 12:18:15 pm
 :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 01:14:19 pm
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

i bought one in January 2012 when the daughter went to Varsity.  BUT it was bought at Checkers and then you must activate it.

That i did not do.

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

See, you are law abiding  :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 01:21:28 pm
I got an etag and I registered....... simple really ......

if we are to get all heated up lets do it about something worthwhile like the incidentce of farm murders , or crime or something worth fighting .....

seen more piss na vinegar about this than any other issue

Edit: my take is they are going to fuck you whether it takes 3 months or 3 years and the amount will just keep increasing ...believe me this is true
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 01:23:09 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

Please take a photo of it in your gay car, with no photo we dont believe you   :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 01:24:27 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 01:25:23 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 22, 2013, 01:25:50 pm
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

i bought one in January 2012 when the daughter went to Varsity.  BUT it was bought at Checkers and then you must activate it.

That i did not do.

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:


THAT WAS BEFORE I MET YOU AND ALSO BECAME A MEMBER HERE  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

See, you are law abiding  :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 22, 2013, 01:26:37 pm
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

i bought one in January 2012 when the daughter went to Varsity.  BUT it was bought at Checkers and then you must activate it.

That i did not do.

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:


THAT WAS BEFORE I MET YOU AND ALSO BECAME A MEMBER HERE  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

See, you are law abiding  :laughing4:


THAT WAS BEFORE I MET YOU AND ALSO BECAME A MEMBER HERE  ImaPoser ImaPoser ImaPoser ImaPoser
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 01:26:46 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 01:27:31 pm
So how many people do you know that has a tag?

I know 1

i bought one in January 2012 when the daughter went to Varsity.  BUT it was bought at Checkers and then you must activate it.

That i did not do.

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:


THAT WAS BEFORE I MET YOU AND ALSO BECAME A MEMBER HERE  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

See, you are law abiding  :laughing4:


THAT WAS BEFORE I MET YOU AND ALSO BECAME A MEMBER HERE  ImaPoser ImaPoser ImaPoser ImaPoser

You have grown up so fast  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 01:28:12 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

You letting your wife use it, you already have a problem
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 22, 2013, 01:36:17 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 01:38:30 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

yes sadly, call it capitulation and I guess it is but I aitn willing to take any risks with my wife an child....real simple....

on my bike, no toll I take what comes
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 22, 2013, 01:41:20 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

don't worry,
when we win the revolution,  we'll have re-education camps.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 22, 2013, 01:44:14 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

don't worry,
when we win the revolution,  we'll have re-education camps.

Will those camps have Ice Cream?  :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 01:44:59 pm
no I aint camp
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 01:50:45 pm
I got an etag and I registered....... simple really ......

if we are to get all heated up lets do it about something worthwhile like the incidentce of farm murders , or crime or something worth fighting .....

seen more piss na vinegar about this than any other issue

Edit: my take is they are going to fuck you whether it takes 3 months or 3 years and the amount will just keep increasing ...believe me this is true

with enough people that share your opinion, the system will succeed - I'm still hoping there are sufficient people that are willing to take a stand against govt corruption and incompetence, to make it fail, as it has in other parts of the world
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 22, 2013, 01:57:22 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

yes sadly, call it capitulation and I guess it is but I aitn willing to take any risks with my wife an child....real simple....

on my bike, no toll I take what comes

what risks bru'?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 22, 2013, 02:01:46 pm
Helpful hint: Attach a photo of Nkandla on your car. It's illegal for the etoll gantry camera to take a pic.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 22, 2013, 02:06:17 pm
The Gulag will sort him out
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 02:20:05 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

yes sadly, call it capitulation and I guess it is but I aitn willing to take any risks with my wife an child....real simple....

on my bike, no toll I take what comes

what risks bru'?

well there are going to be roaming cops and they will have a list of defaulters and cameras that will photo plates an pick out ppl who aint paid etc etc and they will have the authority to pull you over etc etc....I prefer not to take that risk....

my bike, different story..no etag ....

I skeem the idea of pic of Nkandla is brilliant


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 02:22:11 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

yes sadly, call it capitulation and I guess it is but I aitn willing to take any risks with my wife an child....real simple....

on my bike, no toll I take what comes

what risks bru'?

well there are going to be roaming cops and they will have a list of defaulters and cameras that will photo plates an pick out ppl who aint paid etc etc and they will have the authority to pull you over etc etc....I prefer not to take that risk....

my bike, different story..no etag ....

I skeem the idea of pic of Nkandla is brilliant




Hows this risk? Bundu, duplicates your plate and cruises Jozi flat with it, you refuse pay your invoices cos it wasnt you. You are now a defaulter with an e-tag, isnt your wife and laatie at risk now too?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 22, 2013, 02:23:52 pm
Where the fark do you came to that conclusion?  You can't get molested for bad debt dude.  This is not Vietnam - there are rules.  Dont let the fear and panic make you go soft :biggrin:   farking Belgians are running from the Congo again ;) :biggrin: :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 22, 2013, 02:30:13 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

yes sadly, call it capitulation and I guess it is but I aitn willing to take any risks with my wife an child....real simple....

on my bike, no toll I take what comes

what risks bru'?

well there are going to be roaming cops and they will have a list of defaulters and cameras that will photo plates an pick out ppl who aint paid etc etc and they will have the authority to pull you over etc etc....I prefer not to take that risk....

my bike, different story..no etag ....

I skeem the idea of pic of Nkandla is brilliant




 when did this news break !!!!!!!!!!!!!   it is not a legal requirement to have an e-tag  dude 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 02:31:51 pm
Oh Look there is that 1 guy I know  O0

Hello IceCreamMan  :ricky:

U okes must realise , that even though you all in the laager hey ,there are roads out there ......  :peepwall:

You need one for your Bark as well man

nope , not on my moto, there they can go to hell....

for car yes, my wife uses it every now an again an I don't want to have any shit

that's the problem. many will capitulate with that attitude?

yes sadly, call it capitulation and I guess it is but I aitn willing to take any risks with my wife an child....real simple....

on my bike, no toll I take what comes

what risks bru'?

well there are going to be roaming cops and they will have a list of defaulters and cameras that will photo plates an pick out ppl who aint paid etc etc and they will have the authority to pull you over etc etc....I prefer not to take that risk....

my bike, different story..no etag ....

I skeem the idea of pic of Nkandla is brilliant




 when did this news break !!!!!!!!!!!!!   it is not a legal requirement to have an e-tag  dude 


Ah but he didnt say, stopped for no tag, he said stopped cos he is a defaulter etc etc
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 02:35:21 pm
Ah but he didnt say, stopped for no tag, he said stopped cos he is a defaulter etc etc

I have a feeling they will have to stop many, many, many people for being defaulters - gridlock etc etc etc  ;) ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 22, 2013, 02:37:56 pm
since when did defaulting on a debt be a criminal offence? and since when do cops get allocated to patrol the roads for people who haven't paid their edgars accounts?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 02:50:16 pm
since when did defaulting on a debt be a criminal offence? and since when do cops get allocated to patrol the roads for people who haven't paid their edgars accounts?

I'm betting those are BS stories to scare the ignorant
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 02:54:18 pm
hey, u okes sommer run off on a wild goose chase....stop these knee jerk reactions...

are you all saying one cannot be pulled over? are you sure about that? 100% sure...please go an check if you think this

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 22, 2013, 02:57:19 pm
hey, u okes sommer run off on a wild goose chase....stop these knee jerk reactions...

are you all saying one cannot be pulled over? are you sure about that? 100% sure...please go an check if you think this



But even with a tag you can be pulled over  ???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 02:57:36 pm
ICM your other zero risk option would have been to not get tagged and wait for your account - it would cost more, but at least you would not be supporting the ANC plan
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 22, 2013, 03:00:00 pm
Come on ICM - do the right thing :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 03:00:33 pm
actually u okes got me , reason I bought one is cos you knobs wanted to watch that cricket semi final where big mac got left holding a bat and having to score 22 of 1 ball....  so now u bitch an moan ..nee fok ouens u wanted this , now u must maar fucking pay ek se
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Offshore on November 22, 2013, 03:03:01 pm
ICM your other zero risk option would have been to not get tagged and wait for your account - it would cost more, but at least you would not be supporting the ANC plan
:thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 03:12:55 pm
ICM your other zero risk option would have been to not get tagged and wait for your account - it would cost more, but at least you would not be supporting the ANC plan

oh ja, of course....so let me understand this clearly

you are advocating I boycott this disastrous ANC plan by not buying an etag then paying the ANC nearly double more ....fuck me that's a clever plan ....

if your intention with this was to show me the ridiculousness of your point, guess what, u succeeded
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 03:16:35 pm
ICM your other zero risk option would have been to not get tagged and wait for your account - it would cost more, but at least you would not be supporting the ANC plan

oh ja, of course....so let me understand this clearly

you are advocating I boycott this disastrous ANC plan by not buying an etag then paying the ANC nearly double more ....fuck me that's a clever plan ....

if your intention with this was to show me the ridiculousness of your point, guess what, u succeeded

don't get angry when you're wrong! It's called learning ;) ::)

now that you've calmed down a bit..... the e-tolling system can not work if more than a certain % people don't have e-tags - I would have thought most people knew that by now  ???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 22, 2013, 03:25:21 pm
ICM your other zero risk option would have been to not get tagged and wait for your account - it would cost more, but at least you would not be supporting the ANC plan

oh ja, of course....so let me understand this clearly

you are advocating I boycott this disastrous ANC plan by not buying an etag then paying the ANC nearly double more ....fuck me that's a clever plan ....

if your intention with this was to show me the ridiculousness of your point, guess what, u succeeded

don't get angry when you're wrong! It's called learning ;) ::)

now that you've calmed down a bit..... the e-tolling system can not work if more than a certain % people don't have e-tags - I would have thought most people knew that by now  ???

so if you cannot tell me what that percentage is then how do you expect me to believe the rest of your diatribe ...

look, I enjoy learning more than most , but I know BS when I sees it hey .....

but of course most ppl are sheeple and wil lfall for any ole BS.....

most ppl wanted to see the cricket match, and look where that got us ..
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 22, 2013, 03:29:35 pm
so if you cannot tell me what that percentage is then how do you expect me to believe the rest of your diatribe ...

look, I enjoy learning more than most , but I know BS when I sees it hey .....

but of course most ppl are sheeple and wil lfall for any ole BS.....

most ppl wanted to see the cricket match, and look where that got us ..

AFAIK OUTA have put that % on 20%, but it's anybody's guess

You seem to have a very low tolerance for risk

I would not be surprised if you have an e-tag for your bike as well... own up!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 22, 2013, 03:54:43 pm
bike = risk   
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 23, 2013, 07:16:56 am
so if you cannot tell me what that percentage is then how do you expect me to believe the rest of your diatribe ...

look, I enjoy learning more than most , but I know BS when I sees it hey .....

but of course most ppl are sheeple and wil lfall for any ole BS.....

most ppl wanted to see the cricket match, and look where that got us ..

AFAIK OUTA have put that % on 20%, but it's anybody's guess

You seem to have a very low tolerance for risk

I would not be surprised if you have an e-tag for your bike as well... own up!

when it comes to my wife and son, u better believe it ,,,I confess to the whole WD forum that I have low/zero risk....I want no shit for them, simple

nope, not on my bikie ...not yet and no need to
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 23, 2013, 07:46:03 am
Ag kak man ICM. Knowing your wife a little bit, she will tell etags to go fark themselves and sommer you too ;).   She doesnt take shit from anyone.

You gonna be in kak if she finds out boatie ;D :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 23, 2013, 08:14:16 am
So these gantries, how do they work?

Do they have a camera for each lane? How will it work if I do lane splitting under the gantry?

Also, does the gantries have cameras facing to the front, to the rear or both?  ???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 23, 2013, 12:06:26 pm
HUH?

"As many as four out of every 10 number plates in Gauteng are cloned, and buying a fake number plate is as easy as ordering at a drive-through, experts have said.
..........
Plates are being cloned, and who is going to deal with the consequences when there are two or three or more people driving with your number plate on the e-toll routes? You will definitely receive the bill for that plate, for that car,” Louw said.
But roads agency Sanral says e-tolls will actually help to expose fake plates.
It says you do not have to pay up if you receive an incorrect bill because your plate has been cloned."


http://www.enca.com/south-africa/fake-number-plates-raise-e-toll-riddle (http://www.enca.com/south-africa/fake-number-plates-raise-e-toll-riddle)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 23, 2013, 12:34:30 pm
Ag kak man ICM. Knowing your wife a little bit, she will tell etags to go fark themselves and sommer you too ;).   She doesnt take shit from anyone.

You gonna be in kak if she finds out boatie ;D :peepwall:

this of course is the flaw in logic ..... 8)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 23, 2013, 02:18:04 pm
Just to lift the spirit have a look at this facebook page if you all haven't done so already: https://www.facebook.com/TollCrusher (https://www.facebook.com/TollCrusher)

I reckon we are good to go, bring it on cANCer! We, the people of South Africa will win this fight!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 23, 2013, 02:27:00 pm
Just to lift the spirit have a look at this facebook page if you all haven't done so already: https://www.facebook.com/TollCrusher (https://www.facebook.com/TollCrusher)

I reckon we are good to go, bring it on cANCer! We, the people of South Africa will win this fight!!!

absofuckenlutely!

I see the theme has changed from "don't get tagged and question every account" to "don't get tagged and don't pay" - much simpler, I think  ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 23, 2013, 02:32:15 pm
This debacle will go down n history as the trigger that brought the ANC to its knees - mark my words.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 23, 2013, 02:35:14 pm
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 23, 2013, 02:36:21 pm
we can only hope so ................... i am on my way to fetch stickers  :)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Herklaas on November 23, 2013, 03:15:46 pm
Ja, jy kry maar bang gatte orals, veral onder die wit mense, kan nie saamstaan om 'n aanslag af te weer nie.
Logic just tels me that if enough people boycott e-tol (se hol) it will clog any system that the current guv. can try and put together to make u pay.
You can ignore anything you receive in the post, are they going to register the notice they sent you? then sent you a summons and if you ignore that, make out a warrant of arrest. who will arrest you? the police, for what? like someone mentioned earlier.
I have over the last six years ignored about eight speeding tickets that I received in the post (most about R200.00) two in Stellenbosch seven minutes apart, with some nice photos of the bakkie and the bike. Never heard from them again. Last one 104kph in 80 at De Doorns on the n1 at 05:50 last year in December.(R500.00) (that was at the part where the comrades burned holes in the tar during the strikes organised by a Nosey Idiot.)
Still paying my licences, no problem.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Offshore on November 23, 2013, 03:22:18 pm
This debacle will go down n history as the trigger that brought the ANC to its knees - mark my words.
We will not get an Opprtunity like this in a very long Time, that is for sure.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 23, 2013, 03:29:15 pm
This debacle will go down n history as the trigger that brought the ANC to its knees - mark my words.
We will not get an Opprtunity like this in a very long Time, that is for sure.

exactly! and then some people piss it away and will probably in 5 years act like they were fighting the fight - pussies!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 23, 2013, 03:31:49 pm
we can only hope so ................... i am on my way to fetch stickers  :)


about fucking time! ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Herklaas on November 23, 2013, 03:39:52 pm
One of my big concern is that the resistance will cool down, like the fracking, no mention of that for a while, still have my stickers on my bike, bakkie and car that states Frack you Shell, leave our Karoo alone. And I boycott Shell.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 23, 2013, 03:52:22 pm
One of my big concern is that the resistance will cool down, like the fracking, no mention of that for a while, still have my stickers on my bike, bakkie and car that states Frack you Shell, leave our Karoo alone. And I boycott Shell.

both issues are exploitation... one of the environment and the other of citizens - I'm hoping that the 2nd one will be more tangible
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 23, 2013, 07:15:08 pm
we can only hope so ................... i am on my way to fetch stickers  :)


about fucking time! ;)

 i fukkin  know  hey  :)
i tried about 3 weeks ago  , but the oke dirrent hear his blerry doorbell   

found another "CONTACT   :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 25, 2013, 10:24:53 am
interesting idea  ;D

http://no.etoll.gp/ (http://no.etoll.gp/)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 25, 2013, 10:27:04 am
Just saw it on FB. I luv it
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 25, 2013, 11:13:53 am
Anybody have Ali's licence no? Just post it - I'm sure it will have interesting consequences!  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 25, 2013, 11:22:05 am
Bring the ANC on its knees.....ja right !!!

jussus you okes are optimists hey , pipe dream optimists...... this is Africa ....... most ppl don't own cars let alone etags..... bring the anc onto its knees....

 :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 25, 2013, 12:50:09 pm
You are obviously twisting my words to mask your lack of defiance against this African Government :imaposer:

I said - it will be the TRIGGER that brought the ANC to its knees....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 25, 2013, 12:53:00 pm
You are obviously twisting my words to mask your lack of defiance against this African Government :imaposer:

I said - it will be the TRIGGER that brought the ANC to its knees....

ja ou , it wont be

a) the fact zuma has 5 wives an 68 kids
b) the absolute corruption by the ANC
c)  the lack of service delivery
d) the lack of transparency and the new info bill
e) the absolute lack of faith the ppl have in the future
f) ANC's cronisems
g) their pathetic waste of public funds
h) nkandlagate
I) and so on and so on and so on


nee , wont be the above it will be the e tolls....unlikely .....way Africa votes is generally consistent ..just see Zim
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 25, 2013, 02:46:33 pm
Legal firm Findlay & Niemeyer Inc has offered to defend the first non-compliant e-toll road user as a test case, it said on Monday.

The offer followed the SA National Road Agency (Sanral) warning to motorists to pay within seven days of receiving e-toll bills or be handed over to debt collectors, the firm's senior partner John Price said in a statement.


http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Free-lawyer-for-first-e-toll-case-20131125-3 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Free-lawyer-for-first-e-toll-case-20131125-3)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 25, 2013, 03:12:03 pm
Bring the ANC on its knees.....ja right !!!

jussus you okes are optimists hey , pipe dream optimists...... this is Africa ....... most ppl don't own cars let alone etags..... bring the anc onto its knees....

 :imaposer:

Why are you so upset that people don't agree with this thing and want to voice their displeasure?

Why are you doing your level best to try and get people to give up their resistance to this farce?

People who packed for Perth tend to sound very similar to you I'm afraid. They dont want the country to succeed because they decided long ago that it wouldnt, and ran away, now they will tell everyone that will listen how we are destined to failure.

That sort of thing tends to become self fulfilling! 

And another point - what is the big risk that everyone seems to think they are taking by not buying an etag (ie they wont let their family take the risk) - what is that risk?  As far as I understand it, the risk is you will pay more - period!



Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 25, 2013, 03:37:48 pm
Bring the ANC on its knees.....ja right !!!

jussus you okes are optimists hey , pipe dream optimists...... this is Africa ....... most ppl don't own cars let alone etags..... bring the anc onto its knees....

 :imaposer:

Why are you so upset that people don't agree with this thing and want to voice their displeasure?

Why are you doing to level best to try and get people to give up their resistance to this farce?

People who packed for Perth tend to sound very similar to you I'm afraid. They dont want the country to succeed because they decided long ago that it wouldnt, and ran away, now they will tell everyone that will listen how we are destined to failure.

That sort if thing tends to become self fulfilling! 

And another point - what is the big risk that everyone seems to think they are taking by not buying an etag (ie they wont let their family take the risk) - what is that risk?  As far as I understand it the the risk is you will pay more - period!





well said!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Inprogress on November 25, 2013, 04:23:00 pm
You are obviously twisting my words to mask your lack of defiance against this African Government :imaposer:

I said - it will be the TRIGGER that brought the ANC to its knees....

ja ou , it wont be

a) the fact zuma has 5 wives an 68 kids
b) the absolute corruption by the ANC
c)  the lack of service delivery
d) the lack of transparency and the new info bill
e) the absolute lack of faith the ppl have in the future
f) ANC's cronisems
g) their pathetic waste of public funds
h) nkandlagate
I) and so on and so on and so on


nee , wont be the above it will be the e tolls....unlikely .....way Africa votes is generally consistent ..just see Zim

In life one needs to choose your battles and from what it seems, the e-tag debacle is one of those battles we need to fight in order to come together as a nation of vast different cultures against what is wrong. We break the back of this battle (no one is suggesting we don't pay at all, just not like this), we move to the next battle as a united front against corruption, farm murders, Shell et al.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 25, 2013, 04:27:47 pm
Bring the ANC on its knees.....ja right !!!

jussus you okes are optimists hey , pipe dream optimists...... this is Africa ....... most ppl don't own cars let alone etags..... bring the anc onto its knees....

 :imaposer:

Why are you so upset that people don't agree with this thing and want to voice their displeasure?

Why are you doing your level best to try and get people to give up their resistance to this farce?

People who packed for Perth tend to sound very similar to you I'm afraid. They dont want the country to succeed because they decided long ago that it wouldnt, and ran away, now they will tell everyone that will listen how we are destined to failure.

That sort of thing tends to become self fulfilling! 

And another point - what is the big risk that everyone seems to think they are taking by not buying an etag (ie they wont let their family take the risk) - what is that risk?  As far as I understand it, the risk is you will pay more - period!





I think if you looked carefully you may realise that I was attacked for having an ETag..... speaking of PErth they have a similar system in Oz hey ...

my position is merely one of expediency, there is too much riding on this for it not to be iimplemented, that simple...the ruling party are in it up to their eyeballs
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 25, 2013, 05:36:01 pm
Quote
my position is merely one of expediency, there is too much riding on this for it not to be iimplemented, that simple...the ruling party are in it up to their eyeballs


So you bought an etag not because you believe this system is a good idea, but because you think its just easier going along with it?  Is that right?

I have no issue with someone who thinks the whole scheme was a good idea and thus buys an etag for that reason.

But at what point do the citizens of the country start saying enough, if they don't think whats happening is a good idea?  Isn't a democratic country supposed to be run for the benefit of the ordinary people?  If they don't like something the government is trying to impose, should they not be able to resist and oppose it - at any stage of implementation?  Why shout them down?

Its ALWAYS going to be easier to just buckle and pay. 

But it may not be easy to defend your actions to your fellow citizens who don't agree - which may be why you are getting flack here.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 25, 2013, 05:41:30 pm
Quote
my position is merely one of expediency, there is too much riding on this for it not to be iimplemented, that simple...the ruling party are in it up to their eyeballs


So you bought an etag not because you believe this system is a good idea, but because you think its just easier going along with it?  Is that right?

I have no issue with someone who thinks the whole scheme was a good idea and thus buys an etag for that reason.

But at what point do the citizens of the country start saying enough, if they don't think whats happening is a good idea?  Isn't a democratic country supposed to be run for the benefit of the ordinary people?  If they don't like something the government is trying to impose, should they not be able to resist and oppose it - at any stage of implementation?  Why shout them down?

Its ALWAYS going to be easier to just buckle and pay. 

But it may not be easy to defend your actions to your fellow citizens who don't agree - which may be why you are getting flack here.



Tell you what, if you prepared to pay the difference between the e tag rates and the non e tag rates on my behalf then I will be a rebel....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 25, 2013, 06:08:38 pm
then why did you not right at the beginning say that you can't afford the non e-tag rates - why come with manly protector stories?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 25, 2013, 06:15:08 pm
i cant afford the non tag  or the tag rates ...............  i will do nuffink 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 25, 2013, 06:19:23 pm
Wonder what you gonna do when the discounted rates are abolished ?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 25, 2013, 06:24:58 pm
Wonder what you gonna do when the discounted rates are abolished ?

EXACTLY! most people are under the impression e-tolls are limited to CPI increases for ever, which is true! BUT, the discounts the presently tagged e-sheep will get, will have to be reduced for the project not to collapse - see attached document

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 25, 2013, 06:38:53 pm
Quote
Even if you have a look at the impossible scenario 1 (the perfect world for them), there is not enough of a discount to reduce. If so, it would require that cost bracket 4 users are receiving a R720 per month discount, on average. If we then add realistic compliance rates of below 66%, we see that within the next 7 years prices for cost bracket 4 need to increase by at least R1600/month per vehicle.

We are being lied to at every step with this project, and if we accept it, then we are going to be forced to pay these increases every year, or government will have to subsidise them to the value of the difference each year - again, we pay. People need to understand that! And those opposed to paying these exorbitant rates need to ensure that others don't just bend over and accept it, because if a majority do, then the system might just work, and we'll all be stuffed, because of their apathy.

Accept E-TOLLING now by purchasing an e-tag and paying, and you will be subject to increases in line with what I posted. Eventually even cost bracket 1 users (people who pass a single gantry once a day) will be paying R500 per month just to keep the system operational...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 25, 2013, 09:34:21 pm
I must say ICM, although i do value differences of opinion, i really dont understand your stance on this. As a person who continually point african countries' inefficiencies and governments' corruption and inability out, i thought you would be first in the trenches of resistance. Now you rather hide behind women and children. Resistance takes guts dude. Take some cement with your coffee and man up against injustice. Its YOUR chance to make a difference which can have a lasting effect on SA's political landscape as most of us believe.

Time to stand tall mate :thumleft: 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 25, 2013, 09:53:29 pm
I must say ICM, although i do value differences of opinion, i really dont understand your stance on this. As a person who continually point african countries' inefficiencies and governments' corruption and inability out, i thought you would be first in the trenches of resistance. Now you rather hide behind women and children. Resistance takes guts dude. Take some cement with your coffee and man up against injustice. Its YOUR chance to make a difference which can have a lasting effect on SA's political landscape as most of us believe.

Time to stand tall mate :thumleft: 
:thumleft: and here I am agreeing... what next! :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Tonteldoos on November 25, 2013, 11:54:01 pm

there is too much riding on this for it not to be iimplemented, that simple...the ruling party are in it up to their eyeballs

Guess you could say the same of Nkandla... therefore we must support it (Nkandla)..  ::)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mzee on November 26, 2013, 04:40:22 am
Have you peered into the faces of the advocates of the E-toll?  While they might make lofty pronouncements about the virtues of E-toll, their faces reveal that they don't believe what they say.  :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Raka on November 26, 2013, 05:44:48 am
From fb
Title: Re:
Post by: ptashark on November 26, 2013, 05:56:22 am
That's not in SA.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 06:40:33 am
I must say ICM, although i do value differences of opinion, i really dont understand your stance on this. As a person who continually point african countries' inefficiencies and governments' corruption and inability out, i thought you would be first in the trenches of resistance. Now you rather hide behind women and children. Resistance takes guts dude. Take some cement with your coffee and man up against injustice. Its YOUR chance to make a difference which can have a lasting effect on SA's political landscape as most of us believe.

Time to stand tall mate :thumleft: 

Women an children first man .....

u seem to think that my / your choice is really going to make a difference.....that's the crux of the matter....you believe civil uprising an disobedience is going to make a difference....not so....my point is merely if one is going to lose then lose early and save yourself a whole pile of kak.... you may win tomorrow, or the next day but in the long run you are going to lose......me I lose early...this is not a fight I think is worth fighting....

there are far more serious afflictions affecting this country ...we should be focused on those with the same vim an vinegar
Title: Re:
Post by: Raka on November 26, 2013, 06:45:50 am
That's not in SA.

I know, its merely a suggestion....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 26, 2013, 07:03:58 am
ICM, I think you have decided the country is going to the dogs, and now want to see it go there.  You would rather that happened than take the chance in believing and then risk being disappointed?

In any event - people resisting the government does make a difference - just look at how long the bloody tolls have been delayed and how the process and fees have changed from the very mild resistance shown to date!

How is any democratic government going to force millions of people to do something they dont want to, if they all continue to refuse?

Its only when enough people go along, that the government can say that the defaulters are anti'social, and make examples of them, because they will be safe in that the majority will agree, but until then they are on very shaky ground.

What exactly is the government going to do if everyone refuses to pay?  Of course it makes a difference!

But believing it wont - you have defeated yourself without those fat bastards lifting a finger!

Your choice, not their's or anyone elses.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 07:29:21 am
I must say ICM, although i do value differences of opinion, i really dont understand your stance on this. As a person who continually point african countries' inefficiencies and governments' corruption and inability out, i thought you would be first in the trenches of resistance. Now you rather hide behind women and children. Resistance takes guts dude. Take some cement with your coffee and man up against injustice. Its YOUR chance to make a difference which can have a lasting effect on SA's political landscape as most of us believe.

Time to stand tall mate :thumleft: 

Women an children first man .....

u seem to think that my / your choice is really going to make a difference.....that's the crux of the matter....you believe civil uprising an disobedience is going to make a difference....not so....my point is merely if one is going to lose then lose early and save yourself a whole pile of kak.... you may win tomorrow, or the next day but in the long run you are going to lose......me I lose early...this is not a fight I think is worth fighting....

there are far more serious afflictions affecting this country ...we should be focused on those with the same vim an vinegar

Your logic fails in 3 ways....

1. There is no threat towards women and children.  None at all. You are using it as an excuse to be spineless.  The only possible threat is the SA you will leave for your child. I but i guess you have an exit strategy with your foreign passport?

2. How can't say civil disobedience will fail, if you havent tried it yet. SA actually has a very good track record of civil disobedience bringing change. But you need to do it first. What is a fact however - is that doing fuckall will bring fuckall change. You can bank on that.

3. You seems to think people cant change the destiny of a country. Well you are wrong. Thats a fact.

Let me ask you something - what are the real reasons why you capitulate? Fear or backbone less?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 26, 2013, 07:33:57 am
How far is one prepared to accept the destruction to ones life , by the few , for the fews massive gain , that is the real question
If we as a nation accepts this scam ( up to 70% monies collected leaves the county) then what next ?????  They have eaten our medical system , our school system ,our power supply .......  How far are YOU prepared to do NOTHING ,

Some south africans make me fukking sick
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 08:08:11 am
well, in a discussion on etolls I even get free psychoanalysis ....there's a win I reckon   :peepwall:

then we dissect my lack of spine and sommer discuss my exit strategy ......

and sommer that I have a desire to see ZA fail........

if one believes that ZA is going to fail cos of this, well then I have news for you.....

but u know what hey....bible says we must follow the laws of the land, this is the law of the land and it is not contrary to god's law so pay unto Caesar what is due..... so come on ouens , get out of the laager the big bad ANC  govt is not out to get you ....leave the laager ....no e tags needed for ox wagons ....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Tommy Transalp on November 26, 2013, 08:19:22 am
well, in a discussion on etolls I even get free psychoanalysis ....there's a win I reckon   :peepwall:

then we dissect my lack of spine and sommer discuss my exit strategy ......

and sommer that I have a desire to see ZA fail........

if one believes that ZA is going to fail cos of this, well then I have news for you.....

but u know what hey....bible says we must follow the laws of the land, this is the law of the land and it is not contrary to god's law so pay unto Caesar what is due..... so come on ouens , get out of the laager the big bad ANC  govt is not out to get you ....leave the laager ....no e tags needed for ox wagons ....
Are e-toll now law??? It's NOT law to register! So send me an invoice, and I'll consider paying for a road that was there before the present drakonian government! That way more people get a job to do the admin :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 26, 2013, 08:20:51 am
funny thread  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 08:21:24 am
well, in a discussion on etolls I even get free psychoanalysis ....there's a win I reckon   :peepwall:

then we dissect my lack of spine and sommer discuss my exit strategy ......

and sommer that I have a desire to see ZA fail........

if one believes that ZA is going to fail cos of this, well then I have news for you.....

but u know what hey....bible says we must follow the laws of the land, this is the law of the land and it is not contrary to god's law so pay unto Caesar what is due..... so come on ouens , get out of the laager the big bad ANC  govt is not out to get you ....leave the laager ....no e tags needed for ox wagons ....
Are e-toll now law??? It's NOT law to register! So send me an invoice, and I'll consider paying for a road that was there before the present drakonian government! That way more people get a job to do the admin :deal:

well of course, if some of you fine Christian folk want to give Caesar more than his due, then please carry on doing so.......I aint gonna object....the more that pay the premium the more others get subsidized....

of course it would be interesting to see the Christian view on etolls an all, Lourens, RobC et al?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 26, 2013, 08:22:16 am
Cop out
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 08:26:41 am
PATHETIC :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 08:31:15 am
u okes sommer chirping from behind the oxwagon eh

Sanie, her laai die gewere ...ons gaan die swart gevaar op vok
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 08:39:54 am
if you were better informed,  you would realise that many blacks are opposed to e-tolls
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 26, 2013, 08:40:48 am
You really are enjoying taking the piss out of everyone  ;)

All just for the chance at last, to say to KR he is also a laager boytjie  :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 08:42:46 am
You really are enjoying taking the piss out of everyone  ;)

All just for the chance at last, to say to KR he is also a laager boytjie  :imaposer:

one has to take potshots whenever the opportunity presents hey  :biggrin:

seems to be the ultimate insult at wilddogs, saying an ou is a laagerist  :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 26, 2013, 08:43:38 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 08:45:48 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

nee mikie man..u must fight man , to the last , the absolute last

Don't be such a soft cock
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 26, 2013, 08:46:21 am
what says the CPA about charging 3x as much for certain customers?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 26, 2013, 08:47:14 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

nee mikie man..u must fight man , to the last , the absolute last

Don't be such a soft cock

Yes I fight by avoiding highways but fok it its not easy
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ptashark on November 26, 2013, 08:51:35 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

nee mikie man..u must fight man , to the last , the absolute last

Don't be such a soft cock

Yes I fight by avoiding highways but fok it its not easy

I'm lucky that I rarely have to use the highways. But I still won't get an etag. I know they say it's a criminal offence not to pay tolls, but they can't block you getting your or your vehicles license. Hell, they can't even stop licence renewals due to speeding fines! I still think the whole system will fall over due to sheer volume of cars on the road.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 26, 2013, 08:52:47 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

Mikie  - I get what you are saying. Just keep in mind that discounted rates are not guaranteed, what are you going to do once registered and the discounts fall away and you have to pay the higher rate in any event? No getting out of the system then.

That is the crux.

It is not scary talk, it is a fact. The discounted rates are not feasible, it means Gov has subsidize the system to offer those rates. Why would Gov keep on subsidizing you for any extended period ? How can they afford to ? Then the e-tolls are even more ridiculous.

The discounted rates can not and will not last. The Gov is bargaining on people getting registered based on the enticement of discounts. Once they have you  - you are screwed.

There is only one way and that is not to register........................................do your best to sabotage the system, otherwise you WILL be paying the high rate sooner than later.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 26, 2013, 08:54:52 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

nee mikie man..u must fight man , to the last , the absolute last

Don't be such a soft cock

Yes I fight by avoiding highways but fok it its not easy

I'm lucky that I rarely have to use the highways. But I still won't get an etag. I know they say it's a criminal offence not to pay tolls, but they can't block you getting your or your vehicles license. Hell, they can't even stop licence renewals due to speeding fines! I still think the whole system will fall over due to sheer volume of cars on the road.

I am in the same boat, but every 2 weeks I go from Kyalami to Zambesi drive to fetch my son, and then to take him back its much easier on the highway. Once in a while I go to the South, off Comaro, its easier on the highway. I am going to try avoid as much as I can but its not easy.

They can blacklist you, I dont want to be denied a loan in future.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: BikerJan on November 26, 2013, 08:56:35 am
I am using the etol roads on a daily basis. If we could just all stand it out for 6 months or so, make the system unmanageable, we can all benefit.

I really hope we can stand together this one time, all suffer financially a bit for a short while, to rid our self of this injustice. SANRAL and the ANC scum is bargaining on our inability to do it!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 26, 2013, 08:58:08 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

Mikie  - I get what you are saying. Just keep in mind that discounted rates are not guaranteed, what are you going to do once registered and the discounts fall away and you have to pay the higher rate in any event? No getting out of the system then.

That is the crux.

It is not scary talk, it is a fact. The discounted rates are not feasible, it means Gov has subsidize the system to offer those rates. Why would Gov keep on subsidizing you for any extended period ? How can they afford to ? Then the e-tolls are even more ridiculous.

The discounted rates can not and will not last. The Gov is bargaining on people getting registered based on the enticement of discounts. Once they have you  - you are screwed.

There is only one way and that is not to register........................................do your best to sabotage the system, otherwise you WILL be paying the high rate sooner than later.

Dropping discounts is possible too, absolutely. But there limits to that as well surely, they not that stupid
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: NeelsK on November 26, 2013, 09:07:48 am
they not that stupid
:laughing6:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 26, 2013, 09:21:12 am
The Gazette also states that adjustments to the tariffs and amounts can still be made.

"The increase will be determined by the minister and will not exceed the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for the preceeding 12 months."

According to the law, they may only increase the rate as per CPI every 12 months. Which rate ? The rate without discount.

They may make adjustments to tariffs and rates however - what adjustments ? The discounts applicable offcourse
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 26, 2013, 09:22:24 am
I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

To me the questions are these.

1) Am I happy with the way the country is being run?
    a) Mildly unhappy
    b) Its a bit concerning
    c) Deeply unhappy - we are headed for disaster if this continues
2)  e-tolls are:
    a) A good thing and ultimately for the benefit of us all
    b) A poorly planned and executed project but the concept was OK to start with, sort of.
    c) The latest example of a government just raping it citizens at every turn and which potentially heralds a whole new range of additional taxes under the "user pays" principle on a lot of other existing infrastructure
3) The government is using my existing tax money
    a) Wisely and efficiently
    b) Making a few mistakes here and there, but doing their best
    c) Just pissing huge amounts of  money away on their own lavish life styles, excessive salaries and perks, incompetence, corruption, cronyism, factionalism and stupidity, resulting the ever increasing need for more and more and more money from tax payers while we get less and less?

Answer those questions and then decide whether its maybe worth while paying a bit more for your tolls to try and bring down this scheme.  You dont have to do anything illegal, just make it as bloody difficult as possible to collect the money.

If we can stop this scheme we also start a whole new mindset in the population that we are not powerless and can make our displeasure known to a very arrogant government.

Last word:

In any properly run country introducing something like etolls may not necessarily be a bad thing (apart from the privacy concern) because:
1) I would expect that they would reduce taxes that were used to pay for road maintenance before etolls - to compensate for the money collected from tolls
2) A large portion of the money collected would not be siphoned off into a Swiss bank account or some foreign country or private companies with opaque ownerships and shareholdings etc
3) The existing taxes collected (other than etolls) would not be wasted and I could trust that they would be properly used for my benefit as a citizen, so I can rest assured they could not have used that existing money instead of having to introduce etolls
4) The politicians and their friends would not be able to set up and drive through schemes in which they had a personal commercial interest
5) Politicians who were suspected of bribery and corruption or who had known links to corrupt businessmen and convicted criminals would be forced to resign the day after the news was made public.
6) I would expect that once the debts were paid off, etolls would be cancelled or reduced.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 26, 2013, 09:25:59 am
 :laughing4: They give stupid people a bad name !!


I have to admit guys, as much as I dont want to I am also, like I am sure MANY other citizens looking at possibly getting a tag, Paying the reduced fee compared to 3 times the amount??
I do think I am going to avoid the highways as much as I can, but its not always possible.
You can say as much as you like that YOU WONT PAY, if you have used it and dont pay, you going to get shit, thats a fact. Thats how I see it, and no I dont have a tag yet.

Mikie  - I get what you are saying. Just keep in mind that discounted rates are not guaranteed, what are you going to do once registered and the discounts fall away and you have to pay the higher rate in any event? No getting out of the system then.

That is the crux.

It is not scary talk, it is a fact. The discounted rates are not feasible, it means Gov has subsidize the system to offer those rates. Why would Gov keep on subsidizing you for any extended period ? How can they afford to ? Then the e-tolls are even more ridiculous.

The discounted rates can not and will not last. The Gov is bargaining on people getting registered based on the enticement of discounts. Once they have you  - you are screwed.

There is only one way and that is not to register........................................do your best to sabotage the system, otherwise you WILL be paying the high rate sooner than later.

Dropping discounts is possible too, absolutely. But there limits to that as well surely, they not that stupid


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 26, 2013, 09:27:41 am
they not that stupid
:laughing6:

Mikie, how do you think this moronic system was decided on? They're either cretins or corrupt. Either way, all you have to do is not register. The chances of you even receiving an invoice are remote.
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 26, 2013, 09:29:06 am
On this mornings news some SANRAL prick stated that we will have to pay for going through a gantry within 7 days and if not our charged amount of say R2.50 will triple and a debt collector will be sent to claim. I see thousands of new new jobs being created :imaposer: How the hell do they see E- Tolls as being viable with the debt collector fee, all the admin costs, issuing of invoices and all the miscellaneous costs ?

I do know for sure that they wont be sending debt collectors to Mr. Dlamini in Diepsloot, they will rather concerntrate on Mr. Dlamini in Sunninghill  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: BikerJan on November 26, 2013, 09:32:29 am
On this mornings news some SANRAL prick stated that we will have to pay for going through a gantry within 7 days and if not our charged amount of say R2.50 will triple and a debt collector will be sent to claim. I see thousands of new new jobs being created :imaposer: How the hell do they see E- Tolls as being viable with the debt collector fee, all the admin costs, issuing of invoices and all the miscellaneous costs ?

I do know for sure that they wont be sending debt collectors to Mr. Dlamini in Diepsloot, they will rather concerntrate on Mr. Dlamini in Sunninghill  :thumleft:

I would love to see how they are going to issue all those millions of invoices within 7 days!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 26, 2013, 09:32:59 am
and a debt collector will be sent

bully-boy,  scare tactics from a corrupt and unnacountable government of fools and criminals.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 26, 2013, 09:34:22 am
and a debt collector will be sent

bully-boy,  scare tactics from a corrupt and unnacountable government of fools and criminals.

in a perfect nutshell
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 26, 2013, 09:37:43 am
they not that stupid
:laughing6:

Mikie, how do you think this moronic system was decided on? They're either cretins or corrupt. Either way, all you have to do is not register. The chances of you even receiving an invoice are remote.
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

As I said I dont intend to, and will just avoid tolls for as long as I can, but the reality is, many will be giving in and just registering, the exorbitant fees for not having a tag are going to force it
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 09:52:55 am
"Outa to open new front in battle on Gauteng e-tolls
THE Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa), which is locked in battle with the South African National Roads Agency (Sanral) and the government, is opening a new legal front in its campaign to frustrate e-tolls in Gauteng.

Outa chairman Wayne Duvenage said on Monday this would include co-ordinating support for the first court case to test the legality of nonpayment of toll fees.

The campaign, to be started in the "next week or so", includes providing a service to road users at R50-R60 a month that includes "a panic button and support line for if you get pulled over, along with a know-your-rights campaign ... a whole host of benefits will be rolled out".

"There will be a very focused strategy to empower people with support, including legal support in a court intervention as well as civil courage campaign to not tag-up and not to pay e-tolls."

Outa needs to raise about R2m to support the first test case and this would mean the alliance would need about 15,000 people to set up a monthly debit order of about R60, raising the necessary funds within a year.

Last week, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters said e-tolls would go live on December 3, two-and-a-half years later than first announced.

On Monday, law firm Findlay & Niemeyer offered to conduct a test case defence for one of the first noncompliant e-toll road users. Mr Duvenage said another, still unnamed, law firm would also be part of the support Outa was helping to co-ordinate.

Senior partner John Price said his firm would defend the test case to "promote and enforce" section 217(1) of the constitution, which "requires the government to contract for a system (in this case, the tolls) that was ‘fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost effective’".

Mr Duvenage said Outa had been working with Mr Price and another firm of attorneys to co-ordinate the information from Outa’s thwarted legal challenges.

"It is not over by a long way," he said. "Outa is busy forming its strategy … we have an extremely strong case. Remember the lawfulness argument has not been heard — the Supreme Court of Appeal was very clear that that matter needed to be addressed at the appropriate time and they were not going to address it in the review process."

Outa lost its appeal application when the court ruled on the technicality that Outa had taken longer than six months to object to the programme as provided for under the law.

Responding to the news of possible legal challenges, Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said anyone wanting to set a judicial precedent by challenging the enforcement of e-tolls was "welcome". Sanral was "confident we have done everything by the book" and already had three court rulings in its favour.

The enforcement of e-tolls would first be administered by Sanral’s own debt collection system — through a series of infringement notices coupled with discount incentives for payment, Mr Mona said.

Justice Project South Africa chairman Howard Dembovsky said Sanral was using the Criminal Procedure Act to "threaten people with being criminals if they don’t pay"."
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 09:59:49 am
I won't be staying off the highways and using silly back roads - that might just make me think e-tolls are a bargain and defeat the disruptive strategy we are embarking on to stop this crap
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 26, 2013, 10:04:07 am

of course it would be interesting to see the Christian view on etolls an all, Lourens, RobC et al?
My view has been pretty clear on the matter and it has nothing to do with the bible either... just plain common sense.
Pathetic argument skills by the way, dragging in religion like that. :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 26, 2013, 10:07:21 am
Seriaaas , wdf has this got to do with Religion , but go and google Catholic church and E-toll to get you answer .



of course it would be interesting to see the Christian view on etolls an all, Lourens, RobC et al?
My view has been pretty clear on the matter and it has nothing to do with the bible either... just plain common sense.
Pathetic argument skills by the way, dragging in religion like that. :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 10:08:44 am

of course it would be interesting to see the Christian view on etolls an all, Lourens, RobC et al?
My view has been pretty clear on the matter and it has nothing to do with the bible either... just plain common sense.
Pathetic argument skills by the way, dragging in religion like that. :sip:

but surely Rob, yr directive is clear ...follow the laws of the land....

are you advocating one should not follow these laws?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 26, 2013, 10:20:45 am
ICM...  :lamer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 26, 2013, 10:22:57 am
ICM...  :lamer:

 :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 26, 2013, 10:24:20 am
ICM...  :lamer:

Faaark me sideways !!!

Rob found a new smiley  :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 26, 2013, 10:26:05 am
ICM...   :sip:

fixed.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 26, 2013, 10:38:27 am
I will continue to use my roads , the same roads that the guv has taken , and continue to take money from the road fund ( petrol) to build and improve (sic)
As fasr as the "user pays priciple" that the mazi and other locusts flout as an excuse to try and steal more money from me , can u please introduce the same "principle" to state hospitals and state education , and any othe "state " run feeding scheme ,  I am not a "user" of them , I expect a nice tax refund

Thank u
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 10:45:32 am
ICM...  :lamer:

but how u gonna justify this , serious question.... u cannot tell ppl they must follow the laws of the land if you yourself do not do so......

disobedience is not permitted
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 11:10:42 am
I will continue to use my roads , the same roads that the guv has taken , and continue to take money from the road fund ( petrol) to build and improve (sic)
As fasr as the "user pays priciple" that the mazi and other locusts flout as an excuse to try and steal more money from me , can u please introduce the same "principle" to state hospitals and state education , and any othe "state " run feeding scheme ,  I am not a "user" of them , I expect a nice tax refund

Thank u

I'm so sick and tired of cnuts that come up with the "user Pays" argument for e-tolling..... It's probably the lamest argument for e-tolling ever thought up by ANC/Sanral spin doctors, and cock-sucking economists

For every R4 tax that is paid in Gauteng, Gauteng only receives R1 from the fiscus - why not apply "user pays and gets what he pays for" when taxes are utilised?

If Gauteng did not subsidise most other provinces, they would be eating worms and roots and travel along twee-spoor dirt roads and Gauteng could build 10 lane highways and pay cash for them
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 11:13:09 am
ICM...  :lamer:

but how u gonna justify this , serious question.... u cannot tell ppl they must follow the laws of the land if you yourself do not do so......

disobedience is not permitted

ICM, why not open another thread, where somebody can perhaps give you better reasons for supporting govt. corruption than the measly ones you have been able to come up with?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 11:51:54 am
a drop down list to warrant soft cockness :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Triple Trompie on November 26, 2013, 12:19:03 pm
I sure hope the majority of South Africans don't have Icecreamman's attitude. Then we are doomed I tell you. ICM, whats your PO Box, I'd like to donate a box of KY Jellie to you...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 26, 2013, 12:25:06 pm
beginning to think ICM is an ANC/SANRAL stooge...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mooi Rooi on November 26, 2013, 12:46:32 pm
http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409 (http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409)

120000-150000k per month
The candidate will receive the usual benefits of Company car, company credit card, Medical Aid, Provident Fund and must be able to start on the 2nd January, 2014

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

I have applied - As soon as appointed I will gave free access to WD's R0.00 / Cars will be double to cater for the loss of motorbike revenue

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 26, 2013, 12:50:16 pm
http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409 (http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409)

120000-150000k per month
The candidate will receive the usual benefits of Company car, company credit card, Medical Aid, Provident Fund and must be able to start on the 2nd January, 2014

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

I have applied - As soon as appointed I will gave free access to WD's R0.00 / Cars will be double to cater for the loss of motorbike revenue

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:



that's a joke right? WTF
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Frog on November 26, 2013, 12:53:47 pm
http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409 (http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409)

120000-150000k per month
The candidate will receive the usual benefits of Company car, company credit card, Medical Aid, Provident Fund and must be able to start on the 2nd January, 2014

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

I have applied - As soon as appointed I will gave free access to WD's R0.00 / Cars will be double to cater for the loss of motorbike revenue

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:


Hey Mooi Rooi, why would you want to take a salary cut???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mooi Rooi on November 26, 2013, 12:55:05 pm
Just wondering if a e-Tag is supplied with the company car??
Need to have this ? answered before I accept the job  :snorting: :snorting:

The candidate will receive the usual benefits of Company car, company credit card, Medical Aid, Provident Fund and must be able to start on the 2nd January, 2014
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 01:13:53 pm
I sure hope the majority of South Africans don't have Icecreamman's attitude. Then we are doomed I tell you. ICM, whats your PO Box, I'd like to donate a box of KY Jellie to you...

that's what u okes are just not understanding , the majority of south afrikans don't even own a car or ox wagon....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on November 26, 2013, 01:20:15 pm
Matt Damon
Matt Damon reads from Howard Zinn's speech "The Problem is Civil Obedience" (November 1970) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/48834336)
Civil dis-obedience :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: schalkie on November 26, 2013, 01:31:42 pm
I sure hope the majority of South Africans don't have Icecreamman's attitude. Then we are doomed I tell you. ICM, whats your PO Box, I'd like to donate a box of KY Jellie to you...

that's what u okes are just not understanding , the majority of south afrikans don't even own a car or ox wagon....

I hink that is the issue that the majority of us taxpayers have with this nanny-state sytem...

We get milked more and more, but receive less and less. I pay taxes but still has to pay for Security, as the govermnet has no intension to root out crime. I pay school fees, as I want decent education for my kids. I pay medical aid, as state hospitals are pathetic.

Now I must pay for a foreign company to collect my money in order to use a road that was paid for with my tax money...

Maybe we must just accept that some people are happy with this arrangement...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 26, 2013, 01:37:22 pm
I sure hope the majority of South Africans don't have Icecreamman's attitude. Then we are doomed I tell you. ICM, whats your PO Box, I'd like to donate a box of KY Jellie to you...

that's what u okes are just not understanding , the majority of south afrikans don't even own a car or ox wagon....

I hink that is the issue that the majority of us taxpayers have with this nanny-state sytem...

We get milked more and more, but receive less and less. I pay taxes but still has to pay for Security, as the govermnet has no intension to root out crime. I pay school fees, as I want decent education for my kids. I pay medical aid, as state hospitals are pathetic.

Now I must pay for a foreign company to collect my money in order to use a road that was paid for with my tax money...

Maybe we must just accept that some people are happy with this arrangement...

I dotn think anyone is happy with the situation, I just cant see it changing.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 26, 2013, 01:41:56 pm
So what is it that you really want to tell us ? Majority of people don't need a e-tag ? So you assume that the majority will not pay for this scheme ? My bread truck goes to Pretoria everyday to deliver bread and mieliepap . Some poor bugger gonna pay for my usage of the toll road !! Not me !!
Or because the majority has not got transport , the rest of us must throw our hands in the air and say "This is a bloody good thing we got here " ?
Or we should all walk ?

I sure hope the majority of South Africans don't have Icecreamman's attitude. Then we are doomed I tell you. ICM, whats your PO Box, I'd like to donate a box of KY Jellie to you...

that's what u okes are just not understanding , the majority of south afrikans don't even own a car or ox wagon....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 26, 2013, 01:44:46 pm
It won't change , yOU/WE have to change it
Just becoz the guv is stealing and lying , doesn't make them stupid , the fact that YOU /WE  don't fight it makes YOU/WE stupid
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 01:58:25 pm
http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409 (http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-services/sandton/public-relations-officer-sanral-ref-fk-8641/1001072853320910012851409)

120000-150000k per month
The candidate will receive the usual benefits of Company car, company credit card, Medical Aid, Provident Fund and must be able to start on the 2nd January, 2014

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

I have applied - As soon as appointed I will gave free access to WD's R0.00 / Cars will be double to cater for the loss of motorbike revenue

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:



that's a joke right? WTF

 :lol8: :lol8: :lol8: with the kak that person is going to experience from the public, that job is probably severely UNDERPAID
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 02:22:47 pm
well I sincerely hope u okes win hey, viva wilddogs viva ........
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 02:34:33 pm
"The system is far from home and dry as a legally compliant means of collecting tax. Parliament is no longer supreme in the new South
Africa; the constitution is. Any failure to comply with its requirements will visit invalidity upon the law and conduct concerned."


see attached (I doubt if ICM will read it, as his actions seem to be governed by ignorant fear)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 02:42:53 pm
well I sincerely hope u okes win hey, viva wilddogs viva ........

we do too - and we are sure as fuck trying
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 26, 2013, 02:45:12 pm
All we have to do to wine is all clone ICM's number plate
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 26, 2013, 02:46:41 pm
Win win win win. Ff's I meant W I N
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 03:12:33 pm
Viva Bundu Viva ......we love u brother....

if u rebels win then I will doff my cap and say I was wrong ....simple, even in my ignorant fear I can admit to my errors

but remember, placing an additional fuel levy is not a win hey, cos then you still paying for roads you already paid for etc as per your argument....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 26, 2013, 03:18:08 pm
Are you serious ? Have even been following this in the news ? Do you know what the collection costs of E-toll will be compared to fuel levy ? 

Viva Bundu Viva ......we love u brother....

if u rebels win then I will doff my cap and say I was wrong ....simple, even in my ignorant fear I can admit to my errors

but remember, placing an additional fuel levy is not a win hey, cos then you still paying for roads you already paid for etc as per your argument....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 03:20:34 pm
Are you serious ? Have even been following this in the news ? Do you know what the collection costs of E-toll will be compared to fuel levy ? 

Viva Bundu Viva ......we love u brother....

if u rebels win then I will doff my cap and say I was wrong ....simple, even in my ignorant fear I can admit to my errors

but remember, placing an additional fuel levy is not a win hey, cos then you still paying for roads you already paid for etc as per your argument....

yes, the premise put forth has been that we are paying for roads we have already paid for , not the abomination of a collection system....this has bee nthe basis of the argument so making us pay for the raods in another way is not really a victory hey ....merely a diversion cos we all know once the fuel levy is implemented it just gets increased anyway...we will still be paying for roads we already have paid for...

this would not be a victory
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 03:22:00 pm
Stand tall and brave ICM - we want to storm the Bastille.  Maybe fly a Jacobin flag to give us hope.  

First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin....

But we'll have to tell your kid that the withered in the face of adversary when strength was required....  Come, its not to late - your the rebels, the Bastille must fall.  
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 03:22:52 pm
Stand tall and brave ICM - we want to storm the Bastille.  Maybe fly a Jacobin flag to give us hope.  

First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin....

But we'll have to tell your kid that the withered in the face of adversary when strength was required....  Come, its not to late - your the rebels, the Bastille must fall.  

I can feel myself getting brave now.....what to do , hammer to the e tag....decisions decisions .... :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 03:26:08 pm
Everlasting respect if you take pics of this 'burning of the flag'.  One day you may become a strong leader in the resistance :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Raka on November 26, 2013, 03:28:55 pm
 :laughing4:

k gaan my nog dood lag vandag ! :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 26, 2013, 03:35:20 pm
Are you serious ? Have even been following this in the news ? Do you know what the collection costs of E-toll will be compared to fuel levy ? 

Viva Bundu Viva ......we love u brother....

if u rebels win then I will doff my cap and say I was wrong ....simple, even in my ignorant fear I can admit to my errors

but remember, placing an additional fuel levy is not a win hey, cos then you still paying for roads you already paid for etc as per your argument....

yes, the premise put forth has been that we are paying for roads we have already paid for , not the abomination of a collection system....this has bee nthe basis of the argument so making us pay for the raods in another way is not really a victory hey ....merely a diversion cos we all know once the fuel levy is implemented it just gets increased anyway...we will still be paying for roads we already have paid for...

this would not be a victory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWafWjfFNnE&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWafWjfFNnE&feature=youtube_gdata_player)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 26, 2013, 03:41:26 pm
I am all for the resistance.

A third of people have gone and gotten the things so they will already be making money from next month. they will then slowly start following up and prosecuting the non compliant. The pressure will mount and slowly but surely they will start to win the war with people getting scared when they start getting handed over. Word will spread and the masses will cave over time. There will only be a hand full left at the end of the day and they will eventually be crushed.
Sad but true. I recon the gov can afford half of the cars to be illegal and they will still be happy with the outcome. They will set up special departments to deal with the resistance and will put resources into it. Remember when they want to they will make it work . Like SARS its a damn well oiled machine because its about income. trust me they will have this thing running like SARS soon. Hand delivered sumonses mass road blocks where they will stick you in a prison truck impound cars etc. they just have to do a few of these and the non compliant will cave.

Unfortunately this is how I see it playing out. These guys will be ready for this fight!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 26, 2013, 03:43:21 pm
Everlasting respect if you take pics of this 'burning of the flag'.  One day you may become a strong leader in the resistance :thumleft:

the chosen one will emerge to lead the resistance against the machines.

I think it's ICM?

The chosen one is always unaware and then reluctant.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 03:45:09 pm
Everlasting respect if you take pics of this 'burning of the flag'.  One day you may become a strong leader in the resistance :thumleft:

the chosen one will emerge to lead the resistance against the machines.

I think it's ICM?

The chosen one is always unaware and then reluctant.

 Indeed - the Robespierre of the revolution.  Someone strong, a hard man - like Stalin :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 26, 2013, 03:48:06 pm
I am all for the resistance.

A third of people have gone and gotten the things so they will already be making money from next month. they will then slowly start following up and prosecuting the non compliant. The pressure will mount and slowly but surely they will start to win the war with people getting scared when they start getting handed over. Word will spread and the masses will cave over time. There will only be a hand full left at the end of the day and they will eventually be crushed.
Sad but true. I recon the gov can afford half of the cars to be illegal and they will still be happy with the outcome. They will set up special departments to deal with the resistance and will put resources into it. Remember when they want to they will make it work . Like SARS its a damn well oiled machine because its about income. trust me they will have this thing running like SARS soon. Hand delivered sumonses mass road blocks where they will stick you in a prison truck impound cars etc. they just have to do a few of these and the non compliant will cave.

Unfortunately this is how I see it playing out. These guys will be ready for this fight!

since when did defaulting on payments become a criminal offence?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 03:49:55 pm
Check this bully tactics - fark they are an immoral bunch.  Bring the guillotine ICM --- your buddies heads must role....

 http://www.fin24.com/Economy/E-tolls-Non-registered-users-beware-20131126 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/E-tolls-Non-registered-users-beware-20131126)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 26, 2013, 03:57:44 pm
I am all for the resistance.

A third of people have gone and gotten the things so they will already be making money from next month. they will then slowly start following up and prosecuting the non compliant. The pressure will mount and slowly but surely they will start to win the war with people getting scared when they start getting handed over. Word will spread and the masses will cave over time. There will only be a hand full left at the end of the day and they will eventually be crushed.
Sad but true. I recon the gov can afford half of the cars to be illegal and they will still be happy with the outcome. They will set up special departments to deal with the resistance and will put resources into it. Remember when they want to they will make it work . Like SARS its a damn well oiled machine because its about income. trust me they will have this thing running like SARS soon. Hand delivered sumonses mass road blocks where they will stick you in a prison truck impound cars etc. they just have to do a few of these and the non compliant will cave.

Unfortunately this is how I see it playing out. These guys will be ready for this fight!

Go big you shweinhund ...such snivelling moronic mumblings in the face of overwhelming adversity is frowned upon by us brave wilddogs...we shall fight them from the trenches, we shall fight them from the ditches, we shall fiht them from the beaches while on holiday and we shall fight them til the last man...... which in this case will be either bundu or Kilroy taking all things into account  :biggrin:



Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 26, 2013, 04:03:02 pm
I am all for the resistance.

A third of people have gone and gotten the things so they will already be making money from next month. they will then slowly start following up and prosecuting the non compliant. The pressure will mount and slowly but surely they will start to win the war with people getting scared when they start getting handed over. Word will spread and the masses will cave over time. There will only be a hand full left at the end of the day and they will eventually be crushed.
Sad but true. I recon the gov can afford half of the cars to be illegal and they will still be happy with the outcome. They will set up special departments to deal with the resistance and will put resources into it. Remember when they want to they will make it work . Like SARS its a damn well oiled machine because its about income. trust me they will have this thing running like SARS soon. Hand delivered sumonses mass road blocks where they will stick you in a prison truck impound cars etc. they just have to do a few of these and the non compliant will cave.

Unfortunately this is how I see it playing out. These guys will be ready for this fight!

since when did defaulting on payments become a criminal offence?

Since I went to the illegal drags and got blocked in like mice in a dead end street in Deal party. They let us out one by one, armoured vehicles, big guns , loads of cops and all. ID books out, drivers licence out etc they walked along with a laptop, punched in your details ahhh outstanding fines printed a summons, marched you over to a mobile court on wheels either pay or proceed to the jail truck. Believe it because its true I know.

They will hit you with one or two big road blocks on that very highway and it will be chaos... word will spread and everyone will run and be standing in long lines to get etags. I wouldn't want that to happen to my wife and kids. But hey i live in the arm pit!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 26, 2013, 04:23:42 pm
Go Big

Remember the doom and gloom with AARTO. How well has that been going ?

Personally I doubt that they will cope with the chaos that will hopefully follow going live 3rd Dec.

The secret here is numbers. The more people stand strong the more chance everyone have of the system failing.

But here is a win win.

Why not leave registering for now. Stick with it for one month only. It is virtually guaranteed you will not get your first invoice before a minimum of 30 days, regardless of their promise of 7 days.

If most can stick out 1 month, then you will have a clear picture of what they can and can not do and re-evaluate strategy from there.

Not much to lose with above, is there ?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 26, 2013, 04:28:54 pm
Dont get me wrong i want everyone to resist etc
I am just looking at the reality of the whole thing.

Remember they have made no money off this so far. They will rake in millions and i mean millions in the first month or two. They will be more than willing to use this to fight revolutionaries! It will go a long way!

Ok so what to do?
Tear down the cameras etc get super militant on their asses. Burn them down spray paint them  take out the cables and better yet put a virus into the main program etc.

Just saying use the guillotine. :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ADVENTURE HUNTER on November 26, 2013, 04:53:21 pm
was this ever communicated? to have an account and a Etag :patch: (Picture: Sapa)

Author: Sapa Published: 26 November 2013 03:08 PM

Johannesburg - A hefty bill awaits non-registered motorists without e-toll accounts who fail to pay for e-tolling within a week.

Such an individual would end up paying nearly six times more in toll fees, according to the SA National Roads Agency Limited website.

Sanral says tariffs differ depending on whether motorists have both an e-toll account and an e-tag, or having an e-tag without an e-toll account.

Those without both would end up paying much more.

Motorists with e-toll accounts are registered, and those without are non-registered.

If a driver with a Volkswagen (Class A2) does not have an e-toll account and an e-tag, and his daily trip consists of passing the Barbet e-toll gantry on the N1 between Watermeyer and Lynnwood Road, he will have to pay R3.48, according to the website.

"However, if he does not pay within seven days of passing the Barbet e-toll gantry, he will be classified as an alternative user and would need to pay R10.44," says Sanral.

A registered e-tag user with the same vehicle, driving the exact same stretch of road will pay R1.80 if paid within a week of passing the gantry, his e-toll account is up to date, and he qualifies for the 'time of day' and 'frequent user' discount.

A registered VLN user driving the same vehicle on the same stretch of road will pay R3.48 because he does not have an e-tag.

"Because he is registered, is paying within seven days of passing the Barbet e-toll gantry, and his e-toll account is up-to-date, he qualifies for the time of day discount," said Sanral on the website.

A non-registered e-tag user will pay R3.48 with the same vehicle on the same stretch of road.

The agency said should a road user not have an e-toll account, or a day pass, the motorist can pay within a seven day grace period from the time he or she passed the gantry.

Insure your car with iWYZE (RSA Residents Only)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 26, 2013, 05:04:12 pm
I am all for the resistance.

A third of people have gone and gotten the things so they will already be making money from next month. they will then slowly start following up and prosecuting the non compliant. The pressure will mount and slowly but surely they will start to win the war with people getting scared when they start getting handed over. Word will spread and the masses will cave over time. There will only be a hand full left at the end of the day and they will eventually be crushed.
Sad but true. I recon the gov can afford half of the cars to be illegal and they will still be happy with the outcome. They will set up special departments to deal with the resistance and will put resources into it. Remember when they want to they will make it work . Like SARS its a damn well oiled machine because its about income. trust me they will have this thing running like SARS soon. Hand delivered sumonses mass road blocks where they will stick you in a prison truck impound cars etc. they just have to do a few of these and the non compliant will cave.

Unfortunately this is how I see it playing out. These guys will be ready for this fight!

Scaring your self to death about things that might (never) happen is just self defeating IMO.

To keep perspective, we are not talking about people trying to attend an illegal drag race, we are talking about people not buying an etag, which is one VALID option available to any person - ITS NOT A BLOODY CRIME FFS!

Now the only real issue is that you face a higher bill, if they are able to finally process all the outstanding fees. 

Its amazing how people are willing to spend 100k plus  on a bike and a million plus on a car and a couple of million on a house, but hey spend a few bucks more on etolls to try and make the country a better place is suddenly some huge scary problem and just not on!

Hypocrisy?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 26, 2013, 05:05:37 pm
Government and SANRAL did this all wrong. Plain and simple bully tactics.  Why should I pay more for using the same road as a registered farce? Their admin costs? Yes that's why. Well then they can charge me and try their collection costs . I will put it my way, this is not a proper tax to benefit the country nor the greater JHB area. It is simply a way to rape more funds for their fups and to fill back pockets. It may be an eventuality one day but hell I will not be launched over a stool , my trousers ripped down whilst providing vasaline so they can fuck me up the arse.


No E tag, No Pay!  
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 26, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
I will not be launched over a stool , my trousers ripped down whilst providing vasaline so they can fuck me up the arse.

beautifully put.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 26, 2013, 05:10:38 pm
No guys, you also need to do a situational analysis.

Yes, they can go that route - they will lose Gauteng come elections. Cosatu will fuck them up with marches. There will be violence. Can you say Marikana ?

Meantime many will take them on in the courts. There will be blood.

ICM you are speculating about what may happen. Dont capitulate based on assumptions, what ifs, and fears....at least capitulate on facts.....and grow some balls. Africa is not for sissies ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 26, 2013, 05:19:54 pm
No guys, you also need to do a situational analysis.

Yes, they can go that route - they will lose Gauteng come elections. Cosatu will fuck them up with marches. There will be violence. Can you say Marikana ?

Meantime many will take them on in the courts. There will be blood.

ICM you are speculating about what may happen. Dont capitulate based on assumptions, what ifs, and fears....at least capitulate on facts.....and grow some balls. Africa is not for sissies ;)
in ways I agree and the most valid point here in my mind is for saffers regardless to stand together and fight again. No it is not a struggle of a national and human rights proportion, but it can define us. What is wrong is wrong. And etolls are fundamentally wrong . My fear, if we loose this battle now without serious resistance, what happens next, a precedent has been set and government can legally act in their favour. We still have as a collective to move things. That is what government are forgetting.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 26, 2013, 06:03:43 pm
it is a complete fark up , hasnt been planned properly , and is purely to serve the thieving locusts  , period
my route to work ,  from atlas on ramp N12 off at edenvale off ramp ,  three additional off ramps in between ,  toll gantry is just after atlas on ramp ..... soo  the oke that gets off at the first off ramp after the gantry ( east rand mall)  will be charged the same as i am , getting off at edenvale  ..........  uhmmmm  i ride 5 times the distance as he does and he pays the same as me ????????  uhmmmm  fukk off SANRAL and cANCer
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 06:20:19 pm
It's gonna be interesting to see when the 1st person gets taken to court and the amount of public and legal support the person will get

and YES, the benefits of winning this fight against the ANC will be far greater than just the killing of the e-tolls and that makes it even more important that people should stand together
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 26, 2013, 06:22:03 pm
So I wont get an e-tag, and I wont register for e-tol. So yes, IF they finally prove that it was my car / bike that passed under their gantry, then I will pay the higher price. Eventually, after I have procrastinated such payment as far as the law allows me.

It will be a bitter pill to swallow, paying so much more. But I will make a plan, I'll drink less, I'll smoke less, or I will take the wife out for dinner one less time a month.

Revolution isn't cheap, blood money has to be spilled. And I'm willing to make that sacrifice.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 06:59:49 pm
So I wont get an e-tag, and I wont register for e-tol. So yes, IF they finally prove that it was my car / bike that passed under their gantry, then I will pay the higher price. Eventually, after I have procrastinated such payment as far as the law allows me.

It will be a bitter pill to swallow, paying so much more. But I will make a plan, I'll drink less, I'll smoke less, or I will take the wife out for dinner one less time a month.

Revolution isn't cheap, blood money has to be spilled. And I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

 :thumleft:
I doubt if it will carry on very long, especially taking the legal challenges they will face into consideration
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 26, 2013, 07:12:04 pm
and in more exciting e-toll news,  sanral has spent 3.3 BILLION OF OUR FUCKING RANDS IRREGULARLY...
http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/sanral-spent-r3-3bn-irregularly-says-ag-1.1612213#.UpTV88TPV5c (http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/sanral-spent-r3-3bn-irregularly-says-ag-1.1612213#.UpTV88TPV5c)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 26, 2013, 07:46:19 pm
and in more exciting e-toll news,  sanral has spent 3.3 BILLION OF OUR FUCKING RANDS IRREGULARLY...
http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/sanral-spent-r3-3bn-irregularly-says-ag-1.1612213#.UpTV88TPV5c (http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/sanral-spent-r3-3bn-irregularly-says-ag-1.1612213#.UpTV88TPV5c)

just like SAA and SABC they have unlimited funds - our money

about time we tell them all to get fucked :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RedWolf on November 26, 2013, 08:19:31 pm
So I wont get an e-tag, and I wont register for e-tol. So yes, IF they finally prove that it was my car / bike that passed under their gantry, then I will pay the higher price. Eventually, after I have procrastinated such payment as far as the law allows me.

It will be a bitter pill to swallow, paying so much more. But I will make a plan, I'll drink less, I'll smoke less, or I will take the wife out for dinner one less time a month.

Revolution isn't cheap, blood money has to be spilled. And I'm willing to make that sacrifice.
+10000000000000000,

And after a few months of resistance if the weak gives in and this thing goes through, I'll just remove my number plate and speed off if they try to stop me..
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 07:01:53 am
One of the things that pisses me off about this country is how business leaders do not speak out about the problems in the country - they all suck up to the government "in case their government contracts or what ever get affected". 

Business leaders dont realise they are citizens of this country just like everyone else and have a moral duty to use ther leardership positions to influence the future of the country - instead of just paying themselves big salaries and ignoring whats going on.

This was not the case in the past where business leaders had the balls to stand and say what they thought about the country and the way it was run.

Case in point:

http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/avis-supports-e-tolls-1.1612704 (http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/avis-supports-e-tolls-1.1612704)

I personally will not use AVIS as long as this in the case - fark them  >:(
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 27, 2013, 07:28:25 am
My eerlike opinie...

Na 'n paar maande gaan almal tags he en ons gaan vergeet van al die blaaie se bitch en moan... HOEKOM?

Want ons kan nie saamstaan as 'n nasie nie en nog minder die witman .

Jammer maar ek het gister in 'n bestuursvergadering gesê ons moet nie dat die óns onderkry nie, maar as die baas slapgat is kan mens niks aan die saak doen nie.  Nou moet almal tags kry en asb tog nie veroorsaak dat iets geblok word op enige stelsel nie.

Hulle worry net oor die besigheid maar dink nie regtig verder aan die impak wat dit het op kostes ens nie.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 07:41:49 am
I am all for the resistance.

A third of people have gone and gotten the things so they will already be making money from next month. they will then slowly start following up and prosecuting the non compliant. The pressure will mount and slowly but surely they will start to win the war with people getting scared when they start getting handed over. Word will spread and the masses will cave over time. There will only be a hand full left at the end of the day and they will eventually be crushed.
Sad but true. I recon the gov can afford half of the cars to be illegal and they will still be happy with the outcome. They will set up special departments to deal with the resistance and will put resources into it. Remember when they want to they will make it work . Like SARS its a damn well oiled machine because its about income. trust me they will have this thing running like SARS soon. Hand delivered sumonses mass road blocks where they will stick you in a prison truck impound cars etc. they just have to do a few of these and the non compliant will cave.

Unfortunately this is how I see it playing out. These guys will be ready for this fight!

Scaring your self to death about things that might (never) happen is just self defeating IMO.

To keep perspective, we are not talking about people trying to attend an illegal drag race, we are talking about people not buying an etag, which is one VALID option available to any person - ITS NOT A BLOODY CRIME FFS!

Now the only real issue is that you face a higher bill, if they are able to finally process all the outstanding fees. 

Its amazing how people are willing to spend 100k plus  on a bike and a million plus on a car and a couple of million on a house, but hey spend a few bucks more on etolls to try and make the country a better place is suddenly some huge scary problem and just not on!

Hypocrisy?

To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 07:47:03 am
My eerlike opinie...

Na 'n paar maande gaan almal tags he en ons gaan vergeet van al die blaaie se bitch en moan... HOEKOM?

Want ons kan nie saamstaan as 'n nasie nie en nog minder die witman .

Jammer maar ek het gister in 'n bestuursvergadering gesê ons moet nie dat die óns onderkry nie, maar as die baas slapgat is kan mens niks aan die saak doen nie.  Nou moet almal tags kry en asb tog nie veroorsaak dat iets geblok word op enige stelsel nie.

Hulle worry net oor die besigheid maar dink nie regtig verder aan die impak wat dit het op kostes ens nie.

Its up to us to start changing that stupidity, its our future nobody elses.  What are you going to say to your kids one day when they ask why you just stood by and did nothing?

Why does everyone keep repeating the South Africans cant stand together - where did that crap come from?

Its nonsense - unless you insist on believing it!

Any one saying that is actually admitting that they wont consider it.  

People like OUTA and the support they ar getting have shown its crap.

Too many people making themselves powerless here - its just stupid!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kaboef on November 27, 2013, 07:51:44 am
The side with the most money and time always wins.
In this case it's SANRAL.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 27, 2013, 07:54:07 am
The side with the most money and time always wins.
In this case it's SANRAL.



Well, they may win, in the end.

But am sure as blazes not going down without a fight  :patch:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 27, 2013, 08:02:50 am
Not as simple as that in this case Kaboef.  It will cost them votes. Something they dont like losing.

This is not a fight against tolls. This is a fight against blatant corruption, thieving and arrogant self-enriching government officials.  This is saying enough is enough and we, the public, can stop corruption. We will not allow you to steal our money with tolls to line your own pockets.

I agree with the total spinelessness of big business in SA. The are all ANC cock suckers.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 27, 2013, 08:11:55 am
tremember when tolls were first implemented an how cross we all were ...and how we were going to fight the regering to the knees

then remember when GST was first implemented, how the volk were going to fight tooth an nail , retreat to the laager an fock op die regering...

but I digress.....

all though using metphors bout getting bum shagged with or without Vaseline.....well okes I got news for you ek se. ... :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 27, 2013, 08:12:20 am
Some more insight into the how they are determining toll charges

http://www.iol.co.za/business/opinion/sanral-blundered-by-seeing-commuters-as-cash-cows-1.1595981#.UpWLeMQW09E (http://www.iol.co.za/business/opinion/sanral-blundered-by-seeing-commuters-as-cash-cows-1.1595981#.UpWLeMQW09E)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 27, 2013, 08:14:06 am
the biggest issue to my mind is that the okes who are going to be paying the tolls are generally law abiding cicitzens with a culture of observing an following the law....ultimately they will end up paying....

those who have a culture of bypassing the law will not.....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 27, 2013, 08:14:29 am
http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/sacci-remains-opposed-to-e-tolls-1.1612726#.UpWNkMQW09E (http://www.iol.co.za/business/news/sacci-remains-opposed-to-e-tolls-1.1612726#.UpWNkMQW09E)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 08:16:46 am
Quote
To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.

You are missing the point - we keep repeating - over and over - nobody is asking anyone to break the law - just don't buy an etag, thats all!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 08:21:38 am
The side with the most money and time always wins.
In this case it's SANRAL.



Actually not, the money they need is in your bank account, that's what this whole thing is about when you get right down to it.

SA tax payers need to wake up to the fact that they have something far more useful and desireable to the ANC other than votes - they have the money!

The government has become addicted to that money and they want more and more and more.

But until you hand it over you have it and they dont! 

So which side has the most money?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kaboef on November 27, 2013, 08:24:52 am


So which side has the most money?

The government.
They can force you to pay them tolls and taxed by using the law.
You cannot win.

The only way to win is:
By force or violence
By voting for another party.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 08:32:31 am


So which side has the most money?

The government.
They can force you to pay them tolls and taxed by using the law.
You cannot win.

The only way to win is:
By force or violence
By voting for another party.

How exactly are they going to force everyone to pay if everyone refuses?

We can win - its easy, we could do so tomorrow - but the reall issue is people need to want to win.  that seems to be the hard part  ::)

If everyone got together and said with REAL intent - fuck off we are not paying.  How exactly are they going to force 3 million people to pay?

Its not possible.

They can deal with a few thousand defaulters but not the whole population.   
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 08:58:26 am

To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.

you don't seem to realise that there is an excellent chance that that law is worthless as it's against the constitution? No?

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 27, 2013, 09:02:39 am
Hate it when people (sheeple) hide behind the "law" to try and excuse their lack of moral backbone

Pfffft pathetic
Law does not equal moral
The legal  consensual age to fondle and kiss is legally 12 yrs old. That does not make it moral  
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Veldbrand on November 27, 2013, 09:08:53 am
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on November 27, 2013, 09:12:07 am
Fvk Avis, I will never spend a penny with them, it is nothing more than spineless profiteering off their customers.
All toll fees are for the customer's account and furthermore, although the vehicles are fitted with e-tags and registered on the SANRAL system, thus being charged the discounted rate, Avis is charging customers the normal rate and pocketing the difference.
Talk about screwing your customers over to make a buck, and then having the audacity to make a media statement saying "we are doing the right thing"
Fvkem, I will never ever use Avis again.

Now we see all the soft cocks crawling out of the woodwork.
Please don't ever tell me how bad the ANC is, truth be told, look in the mirror, and know your brought it on yourselves.
The "Boere" did not deserve to keep "their" country in 1994.
Typical Souf Effican attitude, "ya, but what can we do", "I'm alright Jack, fvk you"
These are the Laager people, Laager = comfort zone, and we don't want to leave that now.
As has been pointed out on many occasions, just in case you have trouble with comprehension,  this is not about paying for roads, it is about the ever increasing systems being put in place by the Govt. to screw the last cent out of the citizens, for the enrichment of a privileged few, and it is time to say, enough is enough, NO MORE.
maybe you don't mind and can afford to pay R30 for a loaf of bread, or R40 for 2l of milk, I can't, and many, many like me, living on the breadline from hand to mouth can't either, but fvkem, because it's lekker in the Laager, and I'm alright Jack.
I would wager that the soft cock, spineless gits who will go out and buy an e-tag have the means to up and leave when they need to, leaving those who can't to carry the can afterwards, then they will sit in Perth telling everyone how bad SA is.......really? What did you do to prevent it??
And what will you tell your children when they ask what you did?
Sitting on the fence, e-tag in hand, to be "safe" while hoping that the those with backbone and resolve take the shells in trenches win the day, is nothing but two face cowardice and shows a total lack of moral fiber and conviction, and I have no doubt that when the battle is won and the gantries come down, you lot will be the very first crowing about how "we" won the day.....really?
Do us all a favour, take your "what can we do" and "well that is the way it is" and "I don't want kak" attitude, pack your bags and head for Perth now, you are not needed here, every cent that you pay over to SANRAL is a blow against those who have the balls to stand up and try and make a difference, there is no neutral territory, your money will be used against us. that is the bottom line.

Rant off.....for now.  >:(
 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Nomad on November 27, 2013, 09:18:29 am
Fvk Avis, I will never spend a penny with them, it is nothing more than spineless profiteering off their customers.
All toll fees are for the customer's account and furthermore, although the vehicles are fitted with e-tags and registered on the SANRAL system, thus being charged the discounted rate, Avis is charging customers the normal rate and pocketing the difference.
Talk about screwing your customers over to make a buck, and then having the audacity to make a media statement saying "we are doing the right thing"
Fvkem, I will never ever use Avis again.

Now we see all the soft cocks crawling out of the woodwork.
Please don't ever tell me how bad the ANC is, truth be told, look in the mirror, and know your brought it on yourselves.
The "Boere" did not deserve to keep "their" country in 1994.
Typical Souf Effican attitude, "ya, but what can we do", "I'm alright Jack, fvk you"
These are the Laager people, Laager = comfort zone, and we don't want to leave that now.
As has been pointed out on many occasions, just in case you have trouble with comprehension,  this is not about paying for roads, it is about the ever increasing systems being put in place by the Govt. to screw the last cent out of the citizens, for the enrichment of a privileged few, and it is time to say, enough is enough, NO MORE.
maybe you don't mind and can afford to pay R30 for a loaf of bread, or R40 for 2l of milk, I can't, and many, many like me, living on the breadline from hand to mouth can't either, but fvkem, because it's lekker in the Laager, and I'm alright Jack.
I would wager that the soft cock, spineless gits who will go out and buy an e-tag have the means to up and leave when they need to, leaving those who can't to carry the can afterwards, then they will sit in Perth telling everyone how bad SA is.......really? What did you do to prevent it??
And what will you tell your children when they ask what you did?
Sitting on the fence, e-tag in hand, to be "safe" while hoping that the those with backbone and resolve take the shells in trenches win the day, is nothing but two face cowardice and shows a total lack of moral fiber and conviction, and I have no doubt that when the battle is won and the gantries come down, you lot will be the very first crowing about how "we" won the day.....really?
Do us all a favour, take your "what can we do" and "well that is the way it is" and "I don't want kak" attitude, pack your bags and head for Perth now, you are not needed here, every cent that you pay over to SANRAL is a blow against those who have the balls to stand up and try and make a difference, there is no neutral territory, your money will be used against us. that is the bottom line.

Rant off.....for now.  >:(
 


+100000000000000 :thumleft:
couldnt of said it any better!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on November 27, 2013, 09:19:52 am
Fvk Avis, I will never spend a penny with them, it is nothing more than spineless profiteering off their customers.
All toll fees are for the customer's account and furthermore, although the vehicles are fitted with e-tags and registered on the SANRAL system, thus being charged the discounted rate, Avis is charging customers the normal rate and pocketing the difference.
Talk about screwing your customers over to make a buck, and then having the audacity to make a media statement saying "we are doing the right thing"
Fvkem, I will never ever use Avis again.

Now we see all the soft cocks crawling out of the woodwork.
Please don't ever tell me how bad the ANC is, truth be told, look in the mirror, and know your brought it on yourselves.
The "Boere" did not deserve to keep "their" country in 1994.
Typical Souf Effican attitude, "ya, but what can we do", "I'm alright Jack, fvk you"
These are the Laager people, Laager = comfort zone, and we don't want to leave that now.
As has been pointed out on many occasions, just in case you have trouble with comprehension,  this is not about paying for roads, it is about the ever increasing systems being put in place by the Govt. to screw the last cent out of the citizens, for the enrichment of a privileged few, and it is time to say, enough is enough, NO MORE.
maybe you don't mind and can afford to pay R30 for a loaf of bread, or R40 for 2l of milk, I can't, and many, many like me, living on the breadline from hand to mouth can't either, but fvkem, because it's lekker in the Laager, and I'm alright Jack.
I would wager that the soft cock, spineless gits who will go out and buy an e-tag have the means to up and leave when they need to, leaving those who can't to carry the can afterwards, then they will sit in Perth telling everyone how bad SA is.......really? What did you do to prevent it??
And what will you tell your children when they ask what you did?
Sitting on the fence, e-tag in hand, to be "safe" while hoping that the those with backbone and resolve take the shells in trenches win the day, is nothing but two face cowardice and shows a total lack of moral fiber and conviction, and I have no doubt that when the battle is won and the gantries come down, you lot will be the very first crowing about how "we" won the day.....really?
Do us all a favour, take your "what can we do" and "well that is the way it is" and "I don't want kak" attitude, pack your bags and head for Perth now, you are not needed here, every cent that you pay over to SANRAL is a blow against those who have the balls to stand up and try and make a difference, there is no neutral territory, your money will be used against us. that is the bottom line.

Rant off.....for now.  >:(
 


 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 27, 2013, 09:22:20 am
So I wont get an e-tag, and I wont register for e-tol. So yes, IF they finally prove that it was my car / bike that passed under their gantry, then I will pay the higher price. Eventually, after I have procrastinated such payment as far as the law allows me.

It will be a bitter pill to swallow, paying so much more. But I will make a plan, I'll drink less, I'll smoke less, or I will take the wife out for dinner one less time a month.

Revolution isn't cheap, blood money has to be spilled. And I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

+1
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 27, 2013, 09:36:06 am
Fvk Avis, I will never spend a penny with them, it is nothing more than spineless profiteering off their customers.
All toll fees are for the customer's account and furthermore, although the vehicles are fitted with e-tags and registered on the SANRAL system, thus being charged the discounted rate, Avis is charging customers the normal rate and pocketing the difference.
Talk about screwing your customers over to make a buck, and then having the audacity to make a media statement saying "we are doing the right thing"
Fvkem, I will never ever use Avis again.

Now we see all the soft cocks crawling out of the woodwork.
Please don't ever tell me how bad the ANC is, truth be told, look in the mirror, and know your brought it on yourselves.
The "Boere" did not deserve to keep "their" country in 1994.
Typical Souf Effican attitude, "ya, but what can we do", "I'm alright Jack, fvk you"
These are the Laager people, Laager = comfort zone, and we don't want to leave that now.
As has been pointed out on many occasions, just in case you have trouble with comprehension,  this is not about paying for roads, it is about the ever increasing systems being put in place by the Govt. to screw the last cent out of the citizens, for the enrichment of a privileged few, and it is time to say, enough is enough, NO MORE.
maybe you don't mind and can afford to pay R30 for a loaf of bread, or R40 for 2l of milk, I can't, and many, many like me, living on the breadline from hand to mouth can't either, but fvkem, because it's lekker in the Laager, and I'm alright Jack.
I would wager that the soft cock, spineless gits who will go out and buy an e-tag have the means to up and leave when they need to, leaving those who can't to carry the can afterwards, then they will sit in Perth telling everyone how bad SA is.......really? What did you do to prevent it??
And what will you tell your children when they ask what you did?
Sitting on the fence, e-tag in hand, to be "safe" while hoping that the those with backbone and resolve take the shells in trenches win the day, is nothing but two face cowardice and shows a total lack of moral fiber and conviction, and I have no doubt that when the battle is won and the gantries come down, you lot will be the very first crowing about how "we" won the day.....really?
Do us all a favour, take your "what can we do" and "well that is the way it is" and "I don't want kak" attitude, pack your bags and head for Perth now, you are not needed here, every cent that you pay over to SANRAL is a blow against those who have the balls to stand up and try and make a difference, there is no neutral territory, your money will be used against us. that is the bottom line.

Rant off.....for now.  >:(
 


+1000
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Wild Hearted Son on November 27, 2013, 09:37:47 am
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Last-minute-attempt-to-stop-e-tolls-20131126 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Last-minute-attempt-to-stop-e-tolls-20131126)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 27, 2013, 09:38:34 am
Fvk Avis, I will never spend a penny with them, it is nothing more than spineless profiteering off their customers.
All toll fees are for the customer's account and furthermore, although the vehicles are fitted with e-tags and registered on the SANRAL system, thus being charged the discounted rate, Avis is charging customers the normal rate and pocketing the difference.
Talk about screwing your customers over to make a buck, and then having the audacity to make a media statement saying "we are doing the right thing"
Fvkem, I will never ever use Avis again.

Now we see all the soft cocks crawling out of the woodwork.
Please don't ever tell me how bad the ANC is, truth be told, look in the mirror, and know your brought it on yourselves.
The "Boere" did not deserve to keep "their" country in 1994.
Typical Souf Effican attitude, "ya, but what can we do", "I'm alright Jack, fvk you"
These are the Laager people, Laager = comfort zone, and we don't want to leave that now.
As has been pointed out on many occasions, just in case you have trouble with comprehension,  this is not about paying for roads, it is about the ever increasing systems being put in place by the Govt. to screw the last cent out of the citizens, for the enrichment of a privileged few, and it is time to say, enough is enough, NO MORE.
maybe you don't mind and can afford to pay R30 for a loaf of bread, or R40 for 2l of milk, I can't, and many, many like me, living on the breadline from hand to mouth can't either, but fvkem, because it's lekker in the Laager, and I'm alright Jack.
I would wager that the soft cock, spineless gits who will go out and buy an e-tag have the means to up and leave when they need to, leaving those who can't to carry the can afterwards, then they will sit in Perth telling everyone how bad SA is.......really? What did you do to prevent it??
And what will you tell your children when they ask what you did?
Sitting on the fence, e-tag in hand, to be "safe" while hoping that the those with backbone and resolve take the shells in trenches win the day, is nothing but two face cowardice and shows a total lack of moral fiber and conviction, and I have no doubt that when the battle is won and the gantries come down, you lot will be the very first crowing about how "we" won the day.....really?
Do us all a favour, take your "what can we do" and "well that is the way it is" and "I don't want kak" attitude, pack your bags and head for Perth now, you are not needed here, every cent that you pay over to SANRAL is a blow against those who have the balls to stand up and try and make a difference, there is no neutral territory, your money will be used against us. that is the bottom line.

Rant off.....for now.  >:(
 


Brilliant post
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RedWolf on November 27, 2013, 09:40:34 am
Fvk Avis, I will never spend a penny with them, it is nothing more than spineless profiteering off their customers.
All toll fees are for the customer's account and furthermore, although the vehicles are fitted with e-tags and registered on the SANRAL system, thus being charged the discounted rate, Avis is charging customers the normal rate and pocketing the difference.
Talk about screwing your customers over to make a buck, and then having the audacity to make a media statement saying "we are doing the right thing"
Fvkem, I will never ever use Avis again.

Now we see all the soft cocks crawling out of the woodwork.
Please don't ever tell me how bad the ANC is, truth be told, look in the mirror, and know your brought it on yourselves.
The "Boere" did not deserve to keep "their" country in 1994.
Typical Souf Effican attitude, "ya, but what can we do", "I'm alright Jack, fvk you"
These are the Laager people, Laager = comfort zone, and we don't want to leave that now.
As has been pointed out on many occasions, just in case you have trouble with comprehension,  this is not about paying for roads, it is about the ever increasing systems being put in place by the Govt. to screw the last cent out of the citizens, for the enrichment of a privileged few, and it is time to say, enough is enough, NO MORE.
maybe you don't mind and can afford to pay R30 for a loaf of bread, or R40 for 2l of milk, I can't, and many, many like me, living on the breadline from hand to mouth can't either, but fvkem, because it's lekker in the Laager, and I'm alright Jack.
I would wager that the soft cock, spineless gits who will go out and buy an e-tag have the means to up and leave when they need to, leaving those who can't to carry the can afterwards, then they will sit in Perth telling everyone how bad SA is.......really? What did you do to prevent it??
And what will you tell your children when they ask what you did?
Sitting on the fence, e-tag in hand, to be "safe" while hoping that the those with backbone and resolve take the shells in trenches win the day, is nothing but two face cowardice and shows a total lack of moral fiber and conviction, and I have no doubt that when the battle is won and the gantries come down, you lot will be the very first crowing about how "we" won the day.....really?
Do us all a favour, take your "what can we do" and "well that is the way it is" and "I don't want kak" attitude, pack your bags and head for Perth now, you are not needed here, every cent that you pay over to SANRAL is a blow against those who have the balls to stand up and try and make a difference, there is no neutral territory, your money will be used against us. that is the bottom line.

Rant off.....for now.  >:(
 

+100000000000000
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 09:44:33 am
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Last-minute-attempt-to-stop-e-tolls-20131126 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Last-minute-attempt-to-stop-e-tolls-20131126)

I doubt that will succeed, but if it does, that would be hilarious :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ShadedGS on November 27, 2013, 09:45:08 am
Guy was handing out "Proudly e-Tag Free" Stickers at the ToyRun this Sunday past.

I now have 2 on the GS, will be adding one to the Bakkie and one to the wife's car.

Yes - this makes me a target.

No - I don't care.

Yes - I am proud of the decision I, my family and my friends have made.

Yes - I will be sticking to it.

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 09:46:01 am
Fvk Avis, I will never spend a penny with them, it is nothing more than spineless profiteering off their customers.
All toll fees are for the customer's account and furthermore, although the vehicles are fitted with e-tags and registered on the SANRAL system, thus being charged the discounted rate, Avis is charging customers the normal rate and pocketing the difference.
Talk about screwing your customers over to make a buck, and then having the audacity to make a media statement saying "we are doing the right thing"
Fvkem, I will never ever use Avis again.

Now we see all the soft cocks crawling out of the woodwork.
Please don't ever tell me how bad the ANC is, truth be told, look in the mirror, and know your brought it on yourselves.
The "Boere" did not deserve to keep "their" country in 1994.
Typical Souf Effican attitude, "ya, but what can we do", "I'm alright Jack, fvk you"
These are the Laager people, Laager = comfort zone, and we don't want to leave that now.
As has been pointed out on many occasions, just in case you have trouble with comprehension,  this is not about paying for roads, it is about the ever increasing systems being put in place by the Govt. to screw the last cent out of the citizens, for the enrichment of a privileged few, and it is time to say, enough is enough, NO MORE.
maybe you don't mind and can afford to pay R30 for a loaf of bread, or R40 for 2l of milk, I can't, and many, many like me, living on the breadline from hand to mouth can't either, but fvkem, because it's lekker in the Laager, and I'm alright Jack.
I would wager that the soft cock, spineless gits who will go out and buy an e-tag have the means to up and leave when they need to, leaving those who can't to carry the can afterwards, then they will sit in Perth telling everyone how bad SA is.......really? What did you do to prevent it??
And what will you tell your children when they ask what you did?
Sitting on the fence, e-tag in hand, to be "safe" while hoping that the those with backbone and resolve take the shells in trenches win the day, is nothing but two face cowardice and shows a total lack of moral fiber and conviction, and I have no doubt that when the battle is won and the gantries come down, you lot will be the very first crowing about how "we" won the day.....really?
Do us all a favour, take your "what can we do" and "well that is the way it is" and "I don't want kak" attitude, pack your bags and head for Perth now, you are not needed here, every cent that you pay over to SANRAL is a blow against those who have the balls to stand up and try and make a difference, there is no neutral territory, your money will be used against us. that is the bottom line.

Rant off.....for now.  >:(
 


nice post  :thumleft:

but I doubt if the other rental companies will absorb the e-toll costs or not get e-tags
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on November 27, 2013, 10:31:39 am
Quote
but I doubt if the other rental companies will absorb the e-toll costs or not get e-tags

Agreed, but my point was that Avis are being billed by SANRAL at the discounted rate, but Avis are billing the customers at the normal, non discounted rate.
That is just pure profiteering off the system.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ADVENTURE HUNTER on November 27, 2013, 10:39:21 am
Page 1 / 1
Nov 27, 2013 10:28:27 AM [SAP]
Sanral Unaware of E-Tags Sold
Nov. 27 (SAPA) -- The SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) cannot provide the exact number of e-tags sold, it said on Wednesday.
"We have not collated our figures. We should have them by the end of the week," Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said.
He was responding to Sapa's inquiries about the number of e-tags sold to individuals, to government departments, and to companies.
"However, from anecdotal evidence, the number of people visiting our stores for registration is increasing," he said.
Last week, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced that e-tolling in Gauteng would begin on December 3.
Several organisations, trade unions, and political parties said they were disappointed by the move.

-0- Nov/27/2013 08:28 GMT
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Fark me!!!!!! First they said 600 000 E-Tags were sold??????? and now??????? These farking corrupt bunch paid billions for a state of the art IT system where you buy their shit(e-tags) and open accounts on their billion rand system ..........and they cant say how many of the shit they were able to sell???????  FUCK NOWS how their billing will go ??? ??? ??? but then again if it is a fuck up we as taxpayers will anyway pay up so no risk on their side plus the added benefit of bonuses to them despite R3,3 Billion of unauthorised spending by them!!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 27, 2013, 10:43:00 am
What a lot of these pro-"get an e-tag to save on the lower tariff" people fail to grasp is the secondary knock-on effect the e-tolls will have for all South Africans.

It does not matter what you consume, every single thing have to be transported. From the raw product, semi-finished products, finished products and services provided will be affected.

So in essence everything will be going up and not only for the users of the Gauteng freeways.

Secondly, the e-tolls are essentially taking away the man on the street's disposable income, by paying e-tolls and by increased prices of everyday products. Businesses will suffer because we now have less disposable income to spent and also because the products are priced higher.

This all equates to job losses because businesses try to make their profit margin by getting rid of people. This means less economically active people and less disposable income going around and more strain on the already strained society.

Do you pro-"get an e-tag to save on the lower tariff" people see what snow ball effect the e-tolls will create? >:(
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 27, 2013, 10:44:17 am
The rental companies should not have tagged , instead a clause in their rental agreement stating that , all toll fees will be for the client's bill , debited to their credit card , this is inline with sanral's "user pays "(sic) policy
But nooooooooo. True to form the chicken shit way was chosen , typical saner's

Kneeslider , is it definitive that the rental co's are charging the client the untagged rate , while they are only being charged the tagged rate , if so , that is a rippoff , immoral , and just might be illegal
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on November 27, 2013, 10:52:18 am
Quote
Kneeslider , is it definitive that the rental co's are charging the client the untagged rate , while they are only being charged the tagged rate , if so , that is a rippoff , immoral , and just might be illegal

Says so, right here, about half way down.
http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/avis-supports-e-tolls-1.1612704#.UpWyEyccU88 (http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/avis-supports-e-tolls-1.1612704#.UpWyEyccU88)

Avis will charge the standard e-toll tariff, per e-toll gantry, to a monthly maximum value of R450 as published in the Government Gazette,” it said.

“The standard tariff, which is higher than the tariff paid by registered e-tag users, is being charged to enable Avis to recover the costs of implementing systems and resources to manage e-toll compliance
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 27, 2013, 10:57:40 am
So to cover "costs" avis's admin system is as bad as sanrals, they gonna charge 300% more to cover their admin

Jup sounds legit

Bwahahahahahafukkkers.

And this peeps is probably how the rest of the companies are going to pass on the costs to you the consumer , at 300% mark up
Yeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaviva locusts


Oh yeah let's not forget to thank the spineless , tagged SAnaairs
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 11:03:04 am

To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.

you don't seem to realise that there is an excellent chance that that law is worthless as it's against the constitution? No?



Wake up it is the law! as it stands its the law! You have to pay to use the road, get it? you can debate this till the cows come home and hope someone will win this battle in court to change the law but as it stands you have to pay to ride on the road in question.

Again read all my posts and wake up I am not pro any of this! What I am saying that the tactics you intend using in this fight will in the long run not work for you. You will end up loosing. Now besides not paying and getting a tag and hoping your contributution is actualy going to make this go away, what is your realistic aproach to winning this battle. What I am saying is at the moment i dont see your plan as a winning one.

You can have all the macho bravado in the world and talk all this "mass action". In the end your great plan holds little water in my opinion and it will eventually fade. I hope I am wrong.
If it makes you sleep better at night i don't have a tag.. because I don't need one! Now what do you want me to do to help your cause? Blow smoke up your arse and tell you that you are gonna win this one? Oh ok Afriform to the rescue, maybe i should make a donation to them?

Ok so here goes. Yaaaaa fuck them punks dont give them a cent yaaaaa their moere dont pay them shit let them come and get the money heeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Can someone please come up with a real plan.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 11:17:16 am

To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.

you don't seem to realise that there is an excellent chance that that law is worthless as it's against the constitution? No?



Wake up it is the law! as it stands its the law! You have to pay to use the road, get it? you can debate this till the cows come home and hope someone will win this battle in court to change the law but as it stands you have to pay to ride on the road in question.

Again read all my posts and wake up I am not pro any of this! What I am saying that the tactics you intend using in this fight will in the long run not work for you. You will end up loosing. Now besides not paying and getting a tag and hoping your contributution is actualy going to make this go away, what is your realistic aproach to winning this battle. What I am saying is at the moment i dont see your plan as a winning one.

You can have all the macho bravado in the world and talk all this "mass action". In the end your great plan holds little water in my opinion and it will eventually fade. I hope I am wrong.
If it makes you sleep better at night i don't have a tag.. because I don't need one! Now what do you want me to do to help your cause? Blow smoke up your arse and tell you that you are gonna win this one? Oh ok Afriform to the rescue, maybe i should make a donation to them?

Ok so here goes. Yaaaaa fuck them punks dont give them a cent yaaaaa their moere dont pay them shit let them come and get the money heeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Can someone please come up with a real plan.



 :biggrin:

Deep breaths!

If most of the population persist with not getting etags there is a good chance the system will fail due to admin burden of trying to bill them manually, provided sufficeint people persist.

That alone is worth trying.

The best would be for everyone just to say no! the way the taxis did.  That may still happen - if public opinion can be swayed sufficiently.

At the moment the way I see it is we are in an intensive "hearts and minds" battle with SANRAL/gov trying to convince people their cause is hopeless as well add threats of punitive action vs all of us who are trying to motivate people to decide to resist.

Its something that can swing either way at the moment.

Remember the week before the World Cup, at braai's leading up to that all you heard was a stream of negativity about how it was all going to be a stuff up and many people were saying they refused to attend etc etc.  And then suddenly everyone just decided that it was good thing after all and the pendulum swung the other way completely.

Same thing can happen here.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 11:17:51 am

To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.

you don't seem to realise that there is an excellent chance that that law is worthless as it's against the constitution? No?



Wake up it is the law! as it stands its the law! You have to pay to use the road, get it? you can debate this till the cows come home and hope someone will win this battle in court to change the law but as it stands you have to pay to ride on the road in question.

Again read all my posts and wake up I am not pro any of this! What I am saying that the tactics you intend using in this fight will in the long run not work for you. You will end up loosing. Now besides not paying and getting a tag and hoping your contributution is actualy going to make this go away, what is your realistic aproach to winning this battle. What I am saying is at the moment i dont see your plan as a winning one.

You can have all the macho bravado in the world and talk all this "mass action". In the end your great plan holds little water in my opinion and it will eventually fade. I hope I am wrong.
If it makes you sleep better at night i don't have a tag.. because I don't need one! Now what do you want me to do to help your cause? Blow smoke up your arse and tell you that you are gonna win this one? Oh ok Afriform to the rescue, maybe i should make a donation to them?

Ok so here goes. Yaaaaa fuck them punks dont give them a cent yaaaaa their moere dont pay them shit let them come and get the money heeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Can someone please come up with a real plan.



why don't you fucken wake up and read the attachment?

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on November 27, 2013, 11:19:33 am
 :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 11:29:59 am

To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.

you don't seem to realise that there is an excellent chance that that law is worthless as it's against the constitution? No?



Wake up it is the law! as it stands its the law! You have to pay to use the road, get it? you can debate this till the cows come home and hope someone will win this battle in court to change the law but as it stands you have to pay to ride on the road in question.

Again read all my posts and wake up I am not pro any of this! What I am saying that the tactics you intend using in this fight will in the long run not work for you. You will end up loosing. Now besides not paying and getting a tag and hoping your contributution is actualy going to make this go away, what is your realistic aproach to winning this battle. What I am saying is at the moment i dont see your plan as a winning one.

You can have all the macho bravado in the world and talk all this "mass action". In the end your great plan holds little water in my opinion and it will eventually fade. I hope I am wrong.
If it makes you sleep better at night i don't have a tag.. because I don't need one! Now what do you want me to do to help your cause? Blow smoke up your arse and tell you that you are gonna win this one? Oh ok Afriform to the rescue, maybe i should make a donation to them?

Ok so here goes. Yaaaaa fuck them punks dont give them a cent yaaaaa their moere dont pay them shit let them come and get the money heeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Can someone please come up with a real plan.



why don't you fucken wake up and read the attachment?



Yes, thanks for that bit of reading matter that confirms what I have said, it it is legislation at the moment. The article discusses weather or not it is contestable and indicates that it should be contested and that you should resist. (Although this has been tried before) So as it stands its the law to pay for the use of the road.

Now your waking up I see..

I am still waiting for your master plan? You seem a bit stumped at the moment :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TropicThunder on November 27, 2013, 11:32:09 am
Eishhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :deal:
 :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 11:34:50 am
You know its easy to stand back and criticize and laugh.

Whats YOUR plan?

Or is it "Do nothing but criticize and laugh at those are trying what ever they can?"  

Why don't you go to the OUTA website and offer your help and support there, that's a good plan to start with, how's that?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 27, 2013, 11:35:46 am
Are you really going to waste anymore energy on this dude ?


To keep perspective

Illegal drags was not what was being discussed it was the fact that everyone there was caught on a technicality if they had broken the law by not paying fines, having unroadworthy cars etc. Nobody was had for being or taking part in the drags. Same as the e tolls. If you don't pay you are breaking the law and you will be caught at some stage. You will be living in fear of getting pulled over at a road block etc. Remember they will have the law on their side, if you chose to fight it then so be it.

you don't seem to realise that there is an excellent chance that that law is worthless as it's against the constitution? No?



Wake up it is the law! as it stands its the law! You have to pay to use the road, get it? you can debate this till the cows come home and hope someone will win this battle in court to change the law but as it stands you have to pay to ride on the road in question.

Again read all my posts and wake up I am not pro any of this! What I am saying that the tactics you intend using in this fight will in the long run not work for you. You will end up loosing. Now besides not paying and getting a tag and hoping your contributution is actualy going to make this go away, what is your realistic aproach to winning this battle. What I am saying is at the moment i dont see your plan as a winning one.

You can have all the macho bravado in the world and talk all this "mass action". In the end your great plan holds little water in my opinion and it will eventually fade. I hope I am wrong.
If it makes you sleep better at night i don't have a tag.. because I don't need one! Now what do you want me to do to help your cause? Blow smoke up your arse and tell you that you are gonna win this one? Oh ok Afriform to the rescue, maybe i should make a donation to them?

Ok so here goes. Yaaaaa fuck them punks dont give them a cent yaaaaa their moere dont pay them shit let them come and get the money heeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaa!


Can someone please come up with a real plan.



why don't you fucken wake up and read the attachment?


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 11:36:49 am

Yes, thanks for that bit of reading matter that confirms what I have said, it it is legislation at the moment. The article discusses weather or not it is contestable and indicates that it should be contested and that you should resist. (Although this has been tried before) So as it stands its the law to pay for the use of the road.

Now your waking up I see..

I am still waiting for your master plan? You seem a bit stumped at the moment :imaposer:

<sigh> another fucken joker....

yes I'm stumped and have decided to do nothing - i.e. no e-tag, use the roads, and don't pay
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 27, 2013, 11:39:56 am
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 11:45:16 am
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on November 27, 2013, 11:49:13 am
 ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 11:52:59 am
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

Calling people fucking jokers and boneheads gives me a good idea of your character. If you cant debate without childish name calling then well you certainly wont be able to grasp the rest of this debate.

Good luck with having someone fight the law for you and hope they win. Glad we all agree its is the law as it stands.

Your gonna have to get way more extreme than just not buying a tag!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on November 27, 2013, 11:53:29 am
Quote
Wake up it is the law! as it stands its the law!

No it is not, it is law to pay your toll, there is NO LAW that says you have to buy an e-tag.

No one is saying don't pay, we are saying make them work for the money, when they have to bill you and then remind you, then send final notice and then summons and you pay them on the courthouse steps, when it costs them R500 to collect their R20.50, then the system becomes unworkable, nothing illegal about it.
that is the crux of it all, geddit?????
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 11:56:53 am

Yes, thanks for that bit of reading matter that confirms what I have said, it it is legislation at the moment. The article discusses weather or not it is contestable and indicates that it should be contested and that you should resist. (Although this has been tried before) So as it stands its the law to pay for the use of the road.

Now your waking up I see..

I am still waiting for your master plan? You seem a bit stumped at the moment :imaposer:

<sigh> another fucken joker....

yes I'm stumped and have decided to do nothing - i.e. no e-tag, use the roads, and don't pay

Ohh ok then the above bold must be a typo?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 27, 2013, 11:57:50 am
all wannabee Guevara's hey ... now we know why red berets are sold out ......

I hear you go big I hear you........

these rebel okes , they watch to many star wars movies hey ......
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 27, 2013, 11:58:46 am
Quote
Wake up it is the law! as it stands its the law!

No it is not, it is law to pay your toll, there is NO LAW that says you have to buy an e-tag.

No one is saying don't pay, we are saying make them work for the money, when they have to bill you and then remind you, then send final notice and then summons and you pay them on the courthouse steps, when it costs them R500 to collect their R20.50, then the system becomes unworkable, nothing illegal about it.
that is the crux of it all, geddit?????

And making THEM comply with the law by sending the bills by registered mail, and by making THEM comply with the law by PROVING (printing each pic - expensive too) that it was my vehicle that passed under THEIR gantry...

all completely legal, but will cost them way more than what I owe them.

The Germans did this, and their e-toll system collapsed in 8 months. And they are a firswt world country with first world mail systems, etc.

I doubt they will last longer than 6 months here...  :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 27, 2013, 11:58:54 am
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

You can't , so leave the boneheads , too much time and energy is wasted
Some people can only grasp lil bits at a time
As you said do nuffink
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 27, 2013, 12:00:04 pm
all wannabee Guevara's hey ... now we know why red berets are sold out ......

I hear you go big I hear you........

these rebel okes , they watch to many star wars movies hey ......

collaborator!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 27, 2013, 12:00:20 pm
I think you should take the compliment . Bonehead is rather cute , don't you think .

In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

Calling people fucking jokers and boneheads gives me a good idea of your character. If you cant debate without childish name calling then well you certainly wont be able to grasp the rest of this debate.

Good luck with having someone fight the law for you and hope they win. Glad we all agree its is the law as it stands.

Your gonna have to get way more extreme than just not buying a tag!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 12:04:17 pm
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

You can't , so leave the boneheads , too much time and energy is wasted
Some people can only grasp lil bits at a time
As you said do nuffink


Ahhhh a few emails and you have already lost the fight in you to even debate the merits of your great etoll effort, too much energy but you wanna take on the Gov. Good luck!! Good Luck!! :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 12:06:11 pm
Ill be sure to check in on this thread and monitor your progress.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fredda on November 27, 2013, 12:06:28 pm
.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 12:11:45 pm
.

nah! don't be disheartened by trolls that probably have family working for Sanral
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 12:43:47 pm
Its amazing that you two guys seem to be so driven to try and dissaude people to try and resist something that you both say you don't agree with!

Are you going to feel good when the Gov wins, punch the air and come gloat here and think you have won?

Why don't you go vote for the ANC, that way you can come tell us how you won that one as well in next year's elections?

If you agree with the tolls that's a different thing,  but to come and spend a LOT of energy shouting down the people who feel strongly about this is just  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 27, 2013, 12:55:46 pm
Its amazing that you two guys seem to be so driven to try and dissaude people to try and resist something that you both say you don't agree with!

Are you going to feel good when the Gov wins, punch the air and come gloat here and think you have won?

Why don't you go vote for the ANC, that way you can come tell us how you won that one as well in next year's elections?

If you agree with the tolls that's a different thing,  but to come and spend a LOT of energy shouting down the people who feel strongly about this is just  ??? ??? ???


they're collaborators.
when SANRAL send the summons,  they'll sign for receipt on our behalf.
but not to worry,  just like nazi collaborators were eventually put to the sword,  we'll do the same to them.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Frog on November 27, 2013, 12:56:26 pm
Once you are in the system (e-tagged) you can't get out. You would have agreed to their terms & conditions and will therefore have to abide by their rules.
They can change the way they do things and you will have to comply
I'll wait at least 6-12 months to see where this thing is heading.
In the mean time they will have to work for every cent of their money
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 27, 2013, 01:03:44 pm

Yes, thanks for that bit of reading matter that confirms what I have said, it it is legislation at the moment. The article discusses weather or not it is contestable and indicates that it should be contested and that you should resist. (Although this has been tried before) So as it stands its the law to pay for the use of the road.

Now your waking up I see..

I am still waiting for your master plan? You seem a bit stumped at the moment :imaposer:

<sigh> another fucken joker....

yes I'm stumped and have decided to do nothing - i.e. no e-tag, use the roads, and don't pay

Ohh ok then the above bold must be a typo?


why I won't pay.....

http://www.youtube.com/v/i5bFZezmmEw
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 27, 2013, 01:11:46 pm
I see Nuremburg trials in our future....

Or the guillotine working overtime after the revolution :imaposer:

But, no need for name calling okes. Listen to other oke's opinions at least.

Alan, you raised a good question. Seems both these gentlemen disagrees with either the etoll concept or the way its implemented, but will still comply because either they are not in the mood, or afraid to fight it, or they think the fight is useless.

If its the latter, then i am at a lost for words, if its the former, they either need balls or motivation.

I struggle to understand the logic.  You must also understand that politicians make laws which are not always based on democratic principles. Even though it might be a law, the public may not view it as a just law (in this case its most definitely unjust since its shrouded in inefficiencies and corruption). Democratic principles then allow for the public to show their disgust by either their votes or by public protest. There is no unlawfulness to fight an unjust law, or do you want the government to come fuck your wife on your honeymoon night as the king did way back?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 27, 2013, 01:14:46 pm
Its amazing that you two guys seem to be so driven to try and dissaude people to try and resist something that you both say you don't agree with!

Are you going to feel good when the Gov wins, punch the air and come gloat here and think you have won?

Why don't you go vote for the ANC, that way you can come tell us how you won that one as well in next year's elections?

If you agree with the tolls that's a different thing,  but to come and spend a LOT of energy shouting down the people who feel strongly about this is just  ??? ??? ???


you will do well to actually follow the thread, it seems the ppl wihout are hellbent on getting everyone into their camp...not the other way round....

intimidation , name calling etc.....

the very least you should do is get the facts straight , then the rest may actually be read

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Lourens ツ on November 27, 2013, 01:18:25 pm
Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:55

FACTS REVEALED ON 702 THIS MORNING - E-TOLLING = BIG RIP-OFF !!!!

Quote
From Dr. T. J. Botha, former head of the “National Road Traffic Bureau”at the - now defunct - 'Faculty of Transport' of the CSIR, to which I had been attached until my retirement.Please follow the advice furnished herein. Don't participate in this, probably the most devious schemeever designed to make a few very rich and leave all others in miserable poverty and deprivation. Let your conscience guide you on this! and send it on as fast as you can; time is of the essence! FACTS REVEALED ON 702 THIS MORNING re. the e-TOLL TAG.* Less than 10 000 registered e-Tag's.* The system is not manageable for cars travelling on the highways without an e-Tag.* The Ben Schoeman Highway between PTA & JHB carries 300 000 cars per day.* The e-Tag system is a dismal failure so far.* The latest R1.75 p/km is a last bid from the government to force us to buy this e-Tag so they can get the 98% of the pension money back they've spend on the toll roads.*

Note - you DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE e-TAG.DO NOT get an e-TAG and THE SYSTEM WILL FAIL.

Scroll further for mind boggling facts….
Do some quick maths . . . .
300 000 cars x R1.75/car = R 525 000.00 per day

WRONG: it’s per km(and that's only at one gate) x average 4 gates between PTA- JHB = R 2 100 000.00x 2 (the return trip) = R 4 200 000.00/dayx 22 work days per month = R 92 400 000.00 per month x 11.5 working months per year = R 1 062 600 000.00 (One Billion, sixty two million six hundred thousand per year).

WRONG again, it’s worse: It’s per km 300 000 both directions x 1.75 x 40km average (but 300 000 will be reduced as many cannot afford it)= R 21 000 000 p.day. = R 462 000 000 p.m. = R 5 544 000 000 p.a.!!!!

Then the bulk thereof is paid to the guys abroad!!!

Now who are the actual recipients abroad to be???

(Someone is trying to get rich very, very quickly & will have a lot of money to spend)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 27, 2013, 01:19:13 pm
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

You can't , so leave the boneheads , too much time and energy is wasted
Some people can only grasp lil bits at a time
As you said do nuffink


Ahhhh a few emails and you have already lost the fight in you to even debate the merits of your great etoll effort, too much energy but you wanna take on the Gov. Good luck!! Good Luck!! :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Ahhhh. Me lost ???   Uhmmmmm. What egggzactly have I lost ?

You on the other hand have been tagged and registered , well done u "winner"

If you dissagree what some people are trying to achief , fine , but to come in here and bitch to people who are trying to make a possitive change is fucked up , rather go start. A pro e_toll thread , and ....  Ohhh fukkkk. Oops. I was wasting my time
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 01:37:49 pm
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

You can't , so leave the boneheads , too much time and energy is wasted
Some people can only grasp lil bits at a time
As you said do nuffink


Ahhhh a few emails and you have already lost the fight in you to even debate the merits of your great etoll effort, too much energy but you wanna take on the Gov. Good luck!! Good Luck!! :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Ahhhh. Me lost ???   Uhmmmmm. What egggzactly have I lost ?

You on the other hand have been tagged and registered , well done u "winner"

If you dissagree what some people are trying to achief , fine , but to come in here and bitch to people who are trying to make a possitive change is fucked up , rather go start. A pro e_toll thread , and ....  Ohhh fukkkk. Oops. I was wasting my time

Now children let me start again!

I dont even live close to your tolls so like I said I don't have a tag and when I do go up there my hire car has a tag.

I have stated numerous times that i am against the e tolling. Just go back and READ!
The point i am making is that the way of protest you are taking is not going to work and in the end it will fail, try and keep up  (go back and read)
I have stated more than once you need another plan and it will probably be a more militant one.

Being pasive and just not paying and making them work for their money wont win this for you.
The reason the Taxis got off is because they are scared of them> We all know they will trash the infratsucture if they get billed.
The hire cars were cut in on the deal so they make money. they not going to fight.

Your ways are passive and they know this. You cant organize 500 bikes to seriously go and protest or block a highway. You cant get 200 000 people to go and protest and block their head office and trash the place. You cant get their gantries ripped out.

Untill this happens you will loose!

I have seen protests that rocked cities in South America where i thought world war 3 was starting! That was over a few cents rise in the petrol price! Fuel stations were blockaded in shifts for days.. over a few cents!!
You have no idea what it will take to really get this job done. You need the rolling riots of the old days for this one. Untill now we have not seen anything remotely intimidating enough to get this turned over. NOTHING!

Put as many stickers on your cars and bikes as you like but until the first gantry control box goes up in flames nobody is taking this seriously!







Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 27, 2013, 01:38:54 pm
I like the debate :thumleft:  - but keep it civil

ICM and Go Big may still become our Robespierre and Voltaire.... :imaposer:

If not, they can always hide in Argentina  :biggrin: ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on November 27, 2013, 01:41:55 pm
Argentina no, hell thats where the riots were over the few cents of petrol.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 27, 2013, 01:42:11 pm
Go Big and ICM  - on behalf of the Jacobines I apologise for my fellow revolutionaries' name calling and aggression.  They are a tad rambunctious :deal: :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IanC on November 27, 2013, 01:44:58 pm
Firstly let me say I am 100% behind not getting an e-tag, so no name calling please.
Here is what I don't understand:
When you are issued a fine you are issued a summons at the same time so you have a choice, pay, go to court or wait for the law to catch up with you. As far as I understand this e-toll thing, you have an account similar to an electricity account, Edgar's account etc. you get sent a bill to say how much you owe, you pay or you query the bill, if you don't pay then they send you a final demand which you pay or not, this is when they can hand you over to the debt collectors who can then do there job. If you still don't pay then you are handed over to the court, receive a summons and appear in court to explain your side of the story. Up to this point you have not broken any laws, am I correct in assuming this. Once a judgement is made and you still refuse to pay then you are in breach of the law. Anything before that just costs time and money. So someone must tell me under what law can SANRAL put up a roadblock and force you to pay on the spot or prevent you from traveling further. If they do this then they are in breach of the law. Are my assumptions correct and I cannot be arrested for none payment of e-tolls, therefore when keystone cop tells me to hand him my keys I can tell him to take a hike. Imagine if eskom set up roadblocks for non-payment as well as all other businesses. Why is SANRAL different and surely there threatening posture is unlawful under the constitution.
Just to make it clear I work outside the country but have a house and family in Jhb, so though not well informed I do have an interest in the outcome of all this. My family are 100% behind the no etag campaign
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 27, 2013, 01:48:03 pm
Exactly correct Ian.

They cant pull you over and arrest you for unpaid e-tolls, unless you have defaulted on a court order.

SANRAL are employing bullying and scaring tactics because they know their backs are against the wall.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 27, 2013, 01:55:45 pm
Go Big and ICM  - on behalf of the Jacobines I apologise for my fellow revolutionaries' name calling and aggression.  They are a tad rambunctious :deal: :biggrin:

You should consort with worthier ppl...... :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 27, 2013, 01:58:03 pm
In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

You can't , so leave the boneheads , too much time and energy is wasted
Some people can only grasp lil bits at a time
As you said do nuffink


Ahhhh a few emails and you have already lost the fight in you to even debate the merits of your great etoll effort, too much energy but you wanna take on the Gov. Good luck!! Good Luck!! :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Ahhhh. Me lost ???   Uhmmmmm. What egggzactly have I lost ?

You on the other hand have been tagged and registered , well done u "winner"

If you dissagree what some people are trying to achief , fine , but to come in here and bitch to people who are trying to make a possitive change is fucked up , rather go start. A pro e_toll thread , and ....  Ohhh fukkkk. Oops. I was wasting my time

Now children let me start again!

I dont even live close to your tolls so like I said I don't have a tag and when I do go up there my hire car has a tag.

I have stated numerous times that i am against the e tolling. Just go back and READ!
The point i am making is that the way of protest you are taking is not going to work and in the end it will fail, try and keep up  (go back and read)
I have stated more than once you need another plan and it will probably be a more militant one.

Being pasive and just not paying and making them work for their money wont win this for you.
The reason the Taxis got off is because they are scared of them> We all know they will trash the infratsucture if they get billed.
The hire cars were cut in on the deal so they make money. they not going to fight.

Your ways are passive and they know this. You cant organize 500 bikes to seriously go and protest or block a highway. You cant get 200 000 people to go and protest and block their head office and trash the place. You cant get their gantries ripped out.

Untill this happens you will loose!

I have seen protests that rocked cities in South America where i thought world war 3 was starting! That was over a few cents rise in the petrol price! Fuel stations were blockaded in shifts for days.. over a few cents!!
You have no idea what it will take to really get this job done. You need the rolling riots of the old days for this one. Untill now we have not seen anything remotely intimidating enough to get this turned over. NOTHING!

Put as many stickers on your cars and bikes as you like but until the first gantry control box goes up in flames nobody is taking this seriously!









Strong is the force with this one
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 27, 2013, 01:58:24 pm
Firstly let me say I am 100% behind not getting an e-tag, so no name calling please.
Here is what I don't understand:
When you are issued a fine you are issued a summons at the same time so you have a choice, pay, go to court or wait for the law to catch up with you. As far as I understand this e-toll thing, you have an account similar to an electricity account, Edgar's account etc. you get sent a bill to say how much you owe, you pay or you query the bill, if you don't pay then they send you a final demand which you pay or not, this is when they can hand you over to the debt collectors who can then do there job. If you still don't pay then you are handed over to the court, receive a summons and appear in court to explain your side of the story. Up to this point you have not broken any laws, am I correct in assuming this. Once a judgement is made and you still refuse to pay then you are in breach of the law. Anything before that just costs time and money. So someone must tell me under what law can SANRAL put up a roadblock and force you to pay on the spot or prevent you from traveling further. If they do this then they are in breach of the law. Are my assumptions correct and I cannot be arrested for none payment of e-tolls, therefore when keystone cop tells me to hand him my keys I can tell him to take a hike. Imagine if eskom set up roadblocks for non-payment as well as all other businesses. Why is SANRAL different and surely there threatening posture is unlawful under the constitution.
Just to make it clear I work outside the country but have a house and family in Jhb, so though not well informed I do have an interest in the outcome of all this. My family are 100% behind the no etag campaign

spot on - but it requires some balls to be prepared to go to court.  I will :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: the_BOBNOB on November 27, 2013, 01:59:32 pm
sanral's brand new cape town offices are almost done

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3825/10166035614_2d027f7bcf_c.jpg)

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 27, 2013, 01:59:45 pm
Quote
I have stated numerous times that i am against the e tolling. Just go back and READ!
The point i am making is that the way of protest you are taking is not going to work and in the end it will fail, try and keep up  (go back and read)
I have stated more than once you need another plan and it will probably be a more militant one.

Being pasive and just not paying and making them work for their money wont win this for you.
The reason the Taxis got off is because they are scared of them> We all know they will trash the infratsucture if they get billed.
The hire cars were cut in on the deal so they make money. they not going to fight.

OK - I dont agree with the name calling either FWIW.

Why are you so sure passive resistance wont work?  Its a big assumption to make.

how exactly are they going to deliver summons or whatever after 7 days to 3 million people who are moving around the city EVERY DAY?

Its quite a big task!

Once they go into backlog its starts spiraling out of control.

Secondly

As I tried to point out earlier, a lot of people seem to telling themselves stories about how its so BAD not just to go along with the government and there is nothing we can do.  The main battle RIGHT NOW is one of hearts and minds - just constantly shouting "it wont work, you cant win, you'll never win" over and over is very damaging at this point - once people start seeing that they can actually oppose the government the other things will come.


Lastly I agree 100% on the taxis.  The gov introduced etolls.

The taxi associations told the gov "fuck off we wont pay" and meant it.

The gov said OK taxis are exempt.

It REALLY is that simple!

So why cant we win? Why is it so impossible? Why is it hopeless?

As many people have said there is nothing a democratic gov can do if the people say no and really mean it!  They can make all the laws they like.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 27, 2013, 02:01:39 pm
CT - your time is coming ---- scamral wants to feed...

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Cape-tolls-case-back-in-court-20131127 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Cape-tolls-case-back-in-court-20131127)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IanC on November 27, 2013, 02:02:39 pm
Ok, here is another one:
My other bike has a Zambian registration, I ride it on the e-toll roads, how are they going to bill me? I have just read an article where Nasir Ali says they will collect before I cross the border. Under what legal framework will they collect? If you take a foreign registered vehicle into Zambia they charge you road tax, carbon tax etc at the border then you drive where you like. Same with Botswana. I can see an e-toll policeman getting seriously beaten when he tells a truck driver he must pay before he can leave the country. They are a patient lot but don't entertain kak.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 27, 2013, 02:04:44 pm
As far as I know they cannot pull u over , unless u allow them to

You are only required ,by law, to stop at the request of a traffic cop , SAP n emergency personel , or , in times stat of emergency ( has to go thru parliment ) by army
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 27, 2013, 02:11:09 pm
Exactly correct Ian.

They cant pull you over and arrest you for unpaid e-tolls, unless you have defaulted on a court order.

SANRAL are employing bullying and scaring tactics because they know their backs are against the wall.

thats why i stared this http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=139564.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=139564.0) , waiting for confirmation of the debt collection process, it is going to be an administration and costly nightmare for them!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: PierreO on November 27, 2013, 02:29:37 pm
But thats breaking the law ? ICM not gonna like this one bit !


In this case the law is not lawful, which will be proven with the first court case.

exactly, but how to get that into boneheads?

You can't , so leave the boneheads , too much time and energy is wasted
Some people can only grasp lil bits at a time
As you said do nuffink


Ahhhh a few emails and you have already lost the fight in you to even debate the merits of your great etoll effort, too much energy but you wanna take on the Gov. Good luck!! Good Luck!! :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Ahhhh. Me lost ???   Uhmmmmm. What egggzactly have I lost ?

You on the other hand have been tagged and registered , well done u "winner"

If you dissagree what some people are trying to achief , fine , but to come in here and bitch to people who are trying to make a possitive change is fucked up , rather go start. A pro e_toll thread , and ....  Ohhh fukkkk. Oops. I was wasting my time

Now children let me start again!

I dont even live close to your tolls so like I said I don't have a tag and when I do go up there my hire car has a tag.

I have stated numerous times that i am against the e tolling. Just go back and READ!
The point i am making is that the way of protest you are taking is not going to work and in the end it will fail, try and keep up  (go back and read)
I have stated more than once you need another plan and it will probably be a more militant one.

Being pasive and just not paying and making them work for their money wont win this for you.
The reason the Taxis got off is because they are scared of them> We all know they will trash the infratsucture if they get billed.
The hire cars were cut in on the deal so they make money. they not going to fight.

Your ways are passive and they know this. You cant organize 500 bikes to seriously go and protest or block a highway. You cant get 200 000 people to go and protest and block their head office and trash the place. You cant get their gantries ripped out.

Untill this happens you will loose!

I have seen protests that rocked cities in South America where i thought world war 3 was starting! That was over a few cents rise in the petrol price! Fuel stations were blockaded in shifts for days.. over a few cents!!
You have no idea what it will take to really get this job done. You need the rolling riots of the old days for this one. Untill now we have not seen anything remotely intimidating enough to get this turned over. NOTHING!

Put as many stickers on your cars and bikes as you like but until the first gantry control box goes up in flames nobody is taking this seriously!








Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Triple Trompie on November 28, 2013, 12:07:52 am
Quote
Joburg motorists in no hurry to buy e-tags

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Joburg-motorists-in-no-hurry-to-buy-e-tags-20131127 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Joburg-motorists-in-no-hurry-to-buy-e-tags-20131127)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 28, 2013, 06:46:42 am
I see Avis now thinks it doesnt support etolls  ::),  Obviously received a bit of a backlash from their earlier press release.

http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/avis-against-e-tolling-1.1613380 (http://www.iol.co.za/business/companies/avis-against-e-tolling-1.1613380)

But I think they missed a major opportunity.  If they really were against etolls they could have just announced that they would not be buying etags because in any event the debt would be between the driver of the car and SANRAL so it was up to SANRAL to collect that debt and Avis wanted nothing to do with it.

They would have won major browny points with their clients, possibly increasing their market share and also would have made a statement about what they think about the way the country was being run - instead of falling over themselves to comply  >:(


 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Chukudeer on November 28, 2013, 07:22:17 am
Under correction, according to what I have read the taxi's must first register for an e-tag and then apply for exception. The system would then see the tag as exempt when it passes a gantry.

Now will the taxi associations do this? By registering they will be on the system, something they don't like doing as their information would then be available to SARS etc.... :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on November 28, 2013, 09:19:34 am
The BS continues...

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/All-systems-go-for-e-tolls-bills-Sapo-20131128 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/All-systems-go-for-e-tolls-bills-Sapo-20131128)

I've been waiting for a parcel from Germany for 4 months now! WTF?

And they reckon they can deliver a million extra bills each day? Clowns  :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: AdrianL on November 28, 2013, 09:20:39 am
.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 28, 2013, 09:24:48 am
The BS continues...

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/All-systems-go-for-e-tolls-bills-Sapo-20131128 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/All-systems-go-for-e-tolls-bills-Sapo-20131128)

I've been waiting for a parcel from Germany for 4 months now! WTF?

And they reckon they can deliver a million extra bills each day? Clowns  :deal:

classic!!!
they are currently able to handle 450 000 traffic fine mails a month,  so a million a day will be possible too.
approx 60 times what they are (un)able to do now!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on November 28, 2013, 10:17:34 am
I can't wait for the 4th of December to see what happens. 

From Beyers to Malibongwe there's no gantry.  On the way back there's only one.  So once a month I'll take a trip there and back and they can come knock on my door for the R2.  And I'll tell them to bring me proof that it was me or fuck off.  Only once they send my photographic proof will I pay, and only the amount that e-tag users pay.  I won't be discriminated against!

Maybe we should start a WD number plate swapping club for the e-tolls.  Then we can all ride and get bills and query them because it wasn't our number plate.

Or we should start a thread with pictures of taxi number plates to clone or use.

Or maybe something like this:
http://no.etoll.gp/ (http://no.etoll.gp/)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on November 28, 2013, 10:25:39 am
Maybe we should start a WD number plate swapping club for the e-tolls. 

Or we should start a thread with pictures of taxi number plates to clone or use.

we need to get hold of IceCreamMan & GoBig's registration numbers,  and all ride around with theirs on the backs of our bikes.
i will actually put a numberplate on my bike for this.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 28, 2013, 10:28:41 am
Maybe we should start a WD number plate swapping club for the e-tolls. 

Or we should start a thread with pictures of taxi number plates to clone or use.

we need to get hold of IceCreamMan & GoBig's registration numbers,  and all ride around with theirs on the backs of our bikes.
i will actually put a numberplate on my bike for this.

well well well......   the lawlessness just increases....where does one stop ......

from not paying and refusing to do so to utilising illegal means ....

u guys just get worse and worse don't you ...

seems its not the paying that's the problem as long as someone else pays its the fact you you don't want to pay,,,not the system or or or ...

the crux of the matter comes thru
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on November 28, 2013, 10:29:54 am
No, the crux of the matter is to make this fail.

Nice living in a glass house ICM?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 28, 2013, 10:31:20 am
Maybe we should start a WD number plate swapping club for the e-tolls. 

Or we should start a thread with pictures of taxi number plates to clone or use.

we need to get hold of IceCreamMan & GoBig's registration numbers,  and all ride around with theirs on the backs of our bikes.
i will actually put a numberplate on my bike for this.

well well well......   the lawlessness just increases....where does one stop ......

from not paying and refusing to do so to utilising illegal means ....

u guys just get worse and worse don't you ...

seems its not the paying that's the problem as long as someone else pays its the fact you you don't want to pay,,,not the system or or or ...

the crux of the matter comes thru

Hey I bought you lunch on Tuesday, you can pay my e-tag bills
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 28, 2013, 10:38:47 am
No, the crux of the matter is to make this fail.

Nice living in a glass house ICM?

go boy.....

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 28, 2013, 10:39:15 am
Maybe we should start a WD number plate swapping club for the e-tolls. 

Or we should start a thread with pictures of taxi number plates to clone or use.

we need to get hold of IceCreamMan & GoBig's registration numbers,  and all ride around with theirs on the backs of our bikes.
i will actually put a numberplate on my bike for this.

well well well......   the lawlessness just increases....where does one stop ......

from not paying and refusing to do so to utilising illegal means ....

u guys just get worse and worse don't you ...

seems its not the paying that's the problem as long as someone else pays its the fact you you don't want to pay,,,not the system or or or ...

the crux of the matter comes thru

Hey I bought you lunch on Tuesday, you can pay my e-tag bills

sure.... NOT
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on November 28, 2013, 10:45:04 am
Under correction, according to what I have read the taxi's must first register for an e-tag and then apply for exception. The system would then see the tag as exempt when it passes a gantry.

Now will the taxi associations do this? By registering they will be on the system, something they don't like doing as their information would then be available to SARS etc.... :deal:
I would think that is how they would like to deal with "exempt" users, but I do not see the taxi operators buying into that deal either.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Wild Hearted Son on November 28, 2013, 12:09:50 pm
If person A buys an e-tag & registers & has the tolls taken electronically from his bank account
& person B clones person A's plate & rides through the gantries with out an e-tag - what happens ?

Does the toll just disappear from person A's bank account or will there be a bill generated because the system recognised the plate but did not pick up the e-tag ?

If the money just disappears, poor person A will have a helluva task trying to recoup that money from SANRAL. Assuming he even notices the little R2 here or a R1.85 there....

For this uncertainty alone its worth NOT buying an e-tag..........
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 28, 2013, 12:24:59 pm
If person A buys an e-tag & registers & has the tolls taken electronically from his bank account
& person B clones person A's plate & rides through the gantries with out an e-tag - what happens ?

Does the toll just disappear from person A's bank account or will there be a bill generated because the system recognised the plate but did not pick up the e-tag ?

If the money just disappears, poor person A will have a helluva task trying to recoup that money from SANRAL. Assuming he even notices the little R2 here or a R1.85 there....

For this uncertainty alone its worth NOT buying an e-tag..........

yip, A will be paying for B
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 28, 2013, 12:38:44 pm
If person A buys an e-tag & registers & has the tolls taken electronically from his bank account
& person B clones person A's plate & rides through the gantries with out an e-tag - what happens ?

Does the toll just disappear from person A's bank account or will there be a bill generated because the system recognised the plate but did not pick up the e-tag ?

If the money just disappears, poor person A will have a helluva task trying to recoup that money from SANRAL. Assuming he even notices the little R2 here or a R1.85 there....

For this uncertainty alone its worth NOT buying an e-tag..........

yip, A will be paying for B

If the previously published terms and conditions are still valid, which you sign when you get an etag you agree that SANRAL can charge you, and you will be liable and thus must pay unless you can prove that their data is wrong.  ie the onus is on you then to prove them wrong.  But they have the data, not you.

If you dont buy an etag then the onus is on them to prove their case as normal.  Until then your cannot be liable.

Thats the way I understand it.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Geriatrix on November 28, 2013, 12:54:59 pm
If person A buys an e-tag & registers & has the tolls taken electronically from his bank account
& person B clones person A's plate & rides through the gantries with out an e-tag - what happens ?

Does the toll just disappear from person A's bank account or will there be a bill generated because the system recognised the plate but did not pick up the e-tag ?

If the money just disappears, poor person A will have a helluva task trying to recoup that money from SANRAL. Assuming he even notices the little R2 here or a R1.85 there....

For this uncertainty alone its worth NOT buying an e-tag..........

The way that I understand this is that their computer correlates eTag and number plate, then charges for the movement.
If a car without an eTag passes a gantry with a registered plate the legal owner of that number pays full price ( no eTag sensed ).

The very next thing is that the legal owner complains about being charged, and perhaps can even prove that he was not there or that the car is not his.

That number is flagged and the car will be stopped and checked by the police ( of some sort ). If the license disc and number plate are not correct the car can be impounded and the driver arrested. Bad news.

If the legal car owner has no eTag it will be more difficult and take more time to show that there is a cloned number plate. In plain English - buy an eTag and they will look after you, no eTag = tough luck.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 28, 2013, 01:08:01 pm
If person A buys an e-tag & registers & has the tolls taken electronically from his bank account
& person B clones person A's plate & rides through the gantries with out an e-tag - what happens ?

Does the toll just disappear from person A's bank account or will there be a bill generated because the system recognised the plate but did not pick up the e-tag ?

If the money just disappears, poor person A will have a helluva task trying to recoup that money from SANRAL. Assuming he even notices the little R2 here or a R1.85 there....

For this uncertainty alone its worth NOT buying an e-tag..........

The way that I understand this is that their computer correlates eTag and number plate, then charges for the movement.
If a car without an eTag passes a gantry with a registered plate the legal owner of that number pays full price ( no eTag sensed ).

The very next thing is that the legal owner complains about being charged, and perhaps can even prove that he was not there or that the car is not his.

That number is flagged and the car will be stopped and checked by the police ( of some sort ). If the license disc and number plate are not correct the car can be impounded and the driver arrested. Bad news.

If the legal car owner has no eTag it will be more difficult and take more time to show that there is a cloned number plate. In plain English - buy an eTag and they will look after you, no eTag = tough luck.



so get an e-tag, ride without it every now and then and claim your plates have been cloned ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 28, 2013, 01:09:03 pm
lots of misconceptions hey....

but keep at it , fuel the fury....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 28, 2013, 01:10:19 pm
Quote
If the legal car owner has no eTag it will be more difficult and take more time to show that there is a cloned number plate. In plain English - buy an eTag and they will look after you, no eTag = tough luck.

Dont agree.

If you dont have an etag, you have no agreement with them and thus no implied liability unless they can specifically prove otherwise,  they still have to prove it was you before any liability incurs.  So I think you actually have better protection without an etag.  If you dispute their bill they cannot just proceed on the assumption it must have been you, and let you sort it out with the debt collectors and lawers - which they can if you signed their agreement.  

Without an etag you can insist that they provide proof it was you.

You've signed away that right when you buy an etag.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 28, 2013, 01:12:05 pm
no one in their right mind would ever give an organisation a carte blanche to their account , same with etolls.....don't be fokken stooopid hey
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 28, 2013, 01:19:21 pm
no one in their right mind would ever give an organisation a carte blanche to their account , same with etolls.....don't be fokken stooopid hey

Um I'm not talking about access to your account  ::)

I'm talking about liability - ie do you legally owe them money or not.  That's all they need, how they get paid is different thing completely.

The issue is do you legally owe them money if they send  you a bill for a cloned number plate that wasnt yours?

My view:
1) With an etag - yes you are liable - agreed to that in your contract - until you prove it wasnt you.
2) Without an etag - no normal law applies - you cannot be liable unless they prove it was you. 

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 28, 2013, 01:27:31 pm
no one in their right mind would ever give an organisation a carte blanche to their account , same with etolls.....don't be fokken stooopid hey

Um I'm not talking about access to your account  ::)

I'm talking about liability - ie do you legally owe them money or not.  That's all they need, how they get paid is different thing completely.

The issue is do you legally owe them money if they send  you a bill for a cloned number plate that wasnt yours?

My view:
1) With an etag - yes you are liable - agreed to that in your contract - until you prove it wasnt you.
2) Without an etag - no normal law applies - you cannot be liable unless they prove it was you.  




that's correct - the tagged owners tolling balance will be debited and he will have to raise a dispute with Sanral if he picks it up
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Geriatrix on November 28, 2013, 01:28:34 pm
Quote
If the legal car owner has no eTag it will be more difficult and take more time to show that there is a cloned number plate. In plain English - buy an eTag and they will look after you, no eTag = tough luck.

Dont agree.

If you dont have an etag, you have no agreement with them and thus no implied liability unless they can specifically prove otherwise,  they still have to prove it was you before any liability incurs.  So I think you actually have better protection without an etag.  If you dispute their bill they cannot just proceed on the assumption it must have been you, and let you sort it out with the debt collectors and lawers - which they can if you signed their agreement.  

Without an etag you can insist that they provide proof it was you.

You've signed away that right when you buy an etag.

I agree with you, but I was writing specifically about when your number has been cloned, they will trap the holder of the cloned number more easily if you are a registered eTag owner.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 28, 2013, 01:31:25 pm
no one in their right mind would ever give an organisation a carte blanche to their account , same with etolls.....don't be fokken stooopid hey

Um I'm not talking about access to your account  ::)

I'm talking about liability - ie do you legally owe them money or not.  That's all they need, how they get paid is different thing completely.

The issue is do you legally owe them money if they send  you a bill for a cloned number plate that wasnt yours?

My view:
1) With an etag - yes you are liable - agreed to that in your contract - until you prove it wasnt you.
2) Without an etag - no normal law applies - you cannot be liable unless they prove it was you. 



well if someone clones my etag an my number plate then well done ou and also accessed my sanral account and happens to have the same car I drive then I prolly have a pickle on my hands....

pretty much fucked without an etag too but then you fucked for the higher amount....

I think it makes very lil difference in this regard, and no u don't sign away your common law/CPA rights by getting an e-tag.....  but if my car with etag is at another destination at that point in time I would be able to prove whereabouts, whereas without the etag u could potentially be worse off.

number plates in the near future will be chipped as I understand it, making it a tad more difficult but of course not impossible to clone .......

you raise a valid point,  but onus of proof does not shift from e tag user to non etag user depending on whether you have a tag or not
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on November 28, 2013, 01:34:07 pm
Quote
If the legal car owner has no eTag it will be more difficult and take more time to show that there is a cloned number plate. In plain English - buy an eTag and they will look after you, no eTag = tough luck.

Dont agree.

If you dont have an etag, you have no agreement with them and thus no implied liability unless they can specifically prove otherwise,  they still have to prove it was you before any liability incurs.  So I think you actually have better protection without an etag.  If you dispute their bill they cannot just proceed on the assumption it must have been you, and let you sort it out with the debt collectors and lawers - which they can if you signed their agreement.  

Without an etag you can insist that they provide proof it was you.

You've signed away that right when you buy an etag.

I agree with you, but I was writing specifically about when your number has been cloned, they will trap the holder of the cloned number more easily if you are a registered eTag owner.


Why do you think they will care?  They've already got their money from you!  They don't currently make any effort to stop cloning of plates.  They won't suddenly grow some kind of conscious and start "helping you" by trying to find the car with the cloned plate.  You will have to do that AND prove to them that it was cloned.  In the mean time they will continue to deduct cash and you will continue to have to top up your pre-paid account.  If you were not some super dumb idiot to link your e-tolling account directly to your bank account.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 28, 2013, 01:54:18 pm
Quote
you raise a valid point,  but onus of proof does not shift from e tag user to non etag user depending on whether you have a tag or not

I'm fairly sure that it does!  If the new agreement is the same as the old one.

By not signing their agreement (ie not getting an etag) they have no hold over you other than common law, but with your signature on the doc, then they can hold you to the terms of the agreement what ever those are - that's what its there for!

And rest assured it was written for their benefit - not yours!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 28, 2013, 02:45:02 pm
Quote
you raise a valid point,  but onus of proof does not shift from e tag user to non etag user depending on whether you have a tag or not

I'm fairly sure that it does!  If the new agreement is the same as the old one.

By not signing their agreement (ie not getting an etag) they have no hold over you other than common law, but with your signature on the doc, then they can hold you to the terms of the agreement what ever those are - that's what its there for!

And rest assured it was written for their benefit - not yours!
when you sign their agreement you have officially entered into a contract with them and are subjet to their terms and conditions. Its simple, don't. This system can and will topple if saffers stick together on this.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 28, 2013, 03:03:35 pm
From recent "discussions", I think this bears repetition:

Here is an excellent summary of the present fiasco by the leader of Agang, Mamphele Ramphele


Popular resistance could be undoing of e-tolls in Gauteng

by Mamphela Ramphele, October 01 2013, 05:07 (Business Day Live)
   
   
 
THE struggle for freedom was to ensure the people of South Africa govern through accountable, clean and competent public representatives. The insistence by the African National Congress (ANC) government on imposing e-tolls on citizens against their will demonstrates how little the government cares about accountability. E-tolls are neither efficient nor rational instruments to address the investment requirements in our road infrastructure.

The resistance to the e-toll plan must not be construed as a resistance to pay for infrastructure development. We have yet to see a revolt against the payment of company tax, PAYE, VAT and many other taxes. Instead, we observe exemplary levels of compliance by a society that generally does what is right.

Gauteng’s freeways are South Africa’s freeways and the benefits of improved efficiencies within Gauteng accrue to all regions. Gauteng’s contribution to the Treasury’s coffers of almost R400bn is more than four times what it receives in return. It is unfair that Gauteng citizens and businesses having to pay "again" via a costly, inefficient process, for this urban freeway upgrade.

The recent Presidential Review Commission on State-Owned Entities said the following under recommendation 21: "Funding of social infrastructure, including roads, should have less reliance on the ‘user pays’ principle, and more on taxes."

We have built and should continue to build social infrastructure (including daily commuter routes) using efficient tax methods such as general taxation and the fuel levy, which attract virtually zero administration costs. The Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance believes the fuel levy of R2.13c/l (producing about R44bn a year) is an efficient "user pays" mechanism for the road construction needs of South Africa. We have built urban road infrastructure for decades without tolling them. Unfortunately, the government does not ring-fence the fuel levy for road construction purposes. The money goes into the Treasury pot, from which some funds (less than half of this) are divvied out for road infrastructure, which has led to the R170bn backlog in road maintenance to date. We are being asked to pay for the government’s failure to keep investment funds secure from its propensity to consume public resources with scant consideration for sustainability.

An example of how efficient the fuel levy is: had 9c been added to the fuel levy for the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP) in 2006 (when the road upgrade was being planned), and if one adds the R5.7bn provided by the Treasury last year, by today, the authorities would have raised the R17bn road capital costs for the GFIP.

Despite the signing into law of the Transport and Related Matters Amendment Bill, this does not mean that e-tolls are a rational or workable matter. They still have to pass the test of society’s support and all indications are that they will fail. E-tolls, as proposed in the act, are irrational in many respects.

First, the Electronic Tolling Company (ETC) consortium (85% effectively owned by Europe-based Kapsch TrafficCom), was awarded the toll management contract at a cost of R8.4bn for the operational and toll collection process over the first five-year period (including VAT). Excluding some capital costs, the costs related to collecting e-tolls will amount to over R1bn a year, regarded as a burden too big for our society to bear. André Laux of Austria’s Kapsch TrafficCom announced in June that once Gauteng’s e-toll project got under way, this off-shore entity will earn in excess of €50m a year. This foreign privatisation of our country’s freeways has fuelled civic anger about the e-toll plan. The alternative routes and transport options in Gauteng are virtually nonexistent, holding millions of citizens captive to the tolled freeways.

Second, in 2011, the threats of taxi blockades resulted in an exemption of this sector of road users by the South African National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) on the basis of its support for poor people. Yet taxis are private businesses that charge for their services and are not official public transport.

Third, following the public outcry and call to boycott the "e-tag" option, in favour of the "send-the-bill-in-the-post" option, Sanral realised that too many e-tag abstainers will bring the system down and revised the tariff structure by introducing a punitive six-times the e-tag rate for drivers who choose not to "tag along". The public’s rejection simply grew louder.

It is largely the irrational matters listed above that have led to the rejection of the plan by society. This in turn has given rise to an outcry for resistance and noncompliance, which at sufficient levels, makes e-tolling unworkable. E-tolls will suffer a similar fate to the traffic fine payment ratio (below 20% in Gauteng). To succeed, the e-toll process must have extremely high compliance and successful toll collection levels (about 85%-95%), driven by efficient enforcement processes.

There are about 2.4-million unique GFIP users who will collectively generate over 75-million gantry transactions each month. Cloned and incorrect licence plates in Johannesburg are estimated at 10%. E-tolling will worsen this problem and a large percentage of Gauteng motorists are expected to ignore their e-toll bills.

While there are many examples of successful tolling (electronic and manual) around the world and at home, there are also numerous examples where tolling has failed and in every case where it has, one or more of the following factors were prevalent: a low public engagement/participation process, and a high cost of toll charges due to the high costs of collection and administration, resulting in a lack of transparency throughout the process and a lack of trust by the people in the authority’s reasons and motives for the plan. In the Gauteng e-tolling plan, all of these factors are at play. Portugal’s recent e-toll project is failing and shows South Africa what we can expect in Gauteng.

The Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences (Aarto) system was initially to be used for enforcement and compliance. In the absence of Aarto, the Criminal Procedure Act will be used as the enforcement mechanism. Overcrowded courts in Gauteng will not cope.

Sanral believes its public engagement process was adequate: it largely consisted of the publication of its notice of intent to e-toll in Gauteng, in October 2007, by placing one ambiguous advert, hidden away in the business sections of six newspapers on one day, to which it received 28 responses from over 3.5-million Gauteng motorists in the 30-day comment period. This was a meaningless exercise. It contrasts to the relatively extensive consultation with community and business groups during the Winelands N1/N2 investigations in 2001, which concluded that plan to toll those routes should not proceed.

South Africans have made their voices heard against e-tolling. Resistance (passive and overt) is not new to South Africa. There is evidence of sincere and robust public resistance. This is a serious problem for a conflicted and irrational e-toll policy. It boils down to the adage that "laws and regulations are only as good as they are governable". The GFIP’s e-toll plan will very likely be ungovernable.

The government has the opportunity to reconsider, despite this bill having been signed by the president. It is not too late to show respect for citizens and do the right thing for the sake of future generations who deserve rational, workable, adequate infrastructure investments to ensure a competitive sustainable economy.

• Ramphele is leader of AgangSA.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on November 28, 2013, 03:09:25 pm
And for those who have underestimated the resistance to e-tolling (from helloweb.co.za) :


Thank you for voting!

No I don't Support e-toll  99.29%  (450,185 votes
 
Yes I Support e-toll  0.71%  (3,242 votes
 
 
Total Votes: 453,427
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on November 28, 2013, 03:36:37 pm
Interesting.....but have a look at how busy the E-toll (SANRAL) stations are at this stage.
The parking areas are full of cars and people. I do not support this e-toll system and will wait till I'm officially in the sh@te and then maybe forced to buy/pay.

Ps: the only good thing about sanral is: they have all their roads covered by IRU and MRU and MMRU
(Incident response vehicles, medical response and 'motorbike medical response')
I am working for ER24 and is currently contracte as one of the motorbike medics on the project. However: I am not in favor of the e-toll system like I stated above and as a frequent highway user (private) I will not pay till I am forced. There is just no budged for this aditional costs! When and where is this shit going to end!!!?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 28, 2013, 03:41:57 pm
When and where is this shit going to end!!!?

When the people tell the government to bugger off and really mean it - just like the taxis did!

It could happen tomorrow, if everyone just decided to.

Or could never happen if we just keep buckling and going along with their schemes.

Personally I think this is a watershed, if we buckle now, its going to get a lot worse because the precedent will be set and a whole lot of new schemes will come out of the woodwork.  Their thirst for money is very high!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Offshore on November 28, 2013, 03:49:25 pm
When and where is this shit going to end!!!?

When the people tell the government to bugger off and really mean it - just like the taxis did!

It could happen tomorrow, if everyone just decided to.

Or could never happen if we just keep buckling and going along with their schemes.

Personally I think this is a watershed, if we buckle now, its going to get a lot worse because the precedent will be set and a whole lot of new schemes will come out of the woodwork.  Their thirst for money is very high!
I agree with you 100%
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 28, 2013, 08:59:18 pm
Lood in BEELD  ;D

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 28, 2013, 09:44:56 pm
Vanoggend op Radio Boom (Jacaranda FM) se Rian van Heerden blykbaar as jy nie die e-tag het nie en jy betaal nie binne 7 dae nie word die kostes 5 of 6x meer.
So hulle wil jou so forseer om tag te koop.

Hulle se moer
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 28, 2013, 09:47:42 pm
Vanoggend op Radio Boom (Jacaranda FM) se Rian van Heerden blykbaar as jy nie die e-tag het nie en jy betaal nie binne 7 dae nie word die kostes 5 of 6x meer.
So hulle wil jou so forseer om tag te koop.

Hulle se moer

presies! sulke dreigemente motiveer my net meer om hulle al die kak te gee wat ek kan  >:D en gaan :pot:


ek sien regtig uit hierna!  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Offshore on November 28, 2013, 09:55:34 pm
Vanoggend op Radio Boom (Jacaranda FM) se Rian van Heerden blykbaar as jy nie die e-tag het nie en jy betaal nie binne 7 dae nie word die kostes 5 of 6x meer.
So hulle wil jou so forseer om tag te koop.

Hulle se moer

presies! sulke dreigemente motiveer my net meer om hulle al die kak te gee wat ek kan  >:D en gaan :pot:


ek sien regtig uit hierna!  :lol8:
Netso The Heat is on, this is going to be the first Battle in the new SA that the Majority of B&W fight together. I sincerely hope this will be a Watershed occasion which will lead to our Farked up Government wondering why the Dogs are barking.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 29, 2013, 06:35:48 am
as an aside issue, yesterday I had occasion to call the sanral call centre...well it works , and works quite well too...many private an public companies could learn a lesson....however this is possibly due to the fact I was possibly their only friendly call yesterday :)

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 29, 2013, 06:40:56 am
You know ICM, it always nice keeping one's sense of humour during times like this  :thumleft:  peace bra :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 29, 2013, 06:47:19 am
as an aside issue, yesterday I had occasion to call the sanral call centre...well it works , and works quite well too...many private an public companies could learn a lesson....however this is possibly due to the fact I was possibly their only friendly call yesterday :)


probably because you were a handfull of callers  :imaposer: sheep
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 29, 2013, 06:52:49 am
as an aside issue, yesterday I had occasion to call the sanral call centre...well it works , and works quite well too...many private an public companies could learn a lesson....however this is possibly due to the fact I was possibly their only friendly call yesterday :)


probably because you were a handfull of callers  :imaposer: sheep

hey mox, we so passed the passé name calling thang hey .....   and just an aside hey.....sheep generally refers to the majority following one another blindlessly with words like ,norrafok (am I paying) or scamral se ma.....etc. etc. insert yr favourite braai quote here... and aligning with that Vavi character and that malema ou ....now when looking at it like this, it gets kind of confusing who exactly are the sheep here  :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ADVENTURE HUNTER on November 29, 2013, 10:04:52 am
FOK E-TOLL
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on November 29, 2013, 10:06:27 am
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:


 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 29, 2013, 10:08:02 am
So who is it?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ADVENTURE HUNTER on November 29, 2013, 10:12:34 am
So who is it?
Don`t know, but I am going to follow his example :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 29, 2013, 10:13:10 am
So who is it?
Don`t know, but I am going to follow his example :thumleft: :thumleft:

Mate of mine has spotted him too, had a pic on Facebroek yesterday
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: volroom on November 29, 2013, 10:14:22 am
http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/ (http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on November 29, 2013, 10:18:23 am
FOK E-TOLL
give that man a triple bells !
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 29, 2013, 10:56:09 am
I see he is a WD
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 29, 2013, 11:02:17 am
Lekker , I laaaik him
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on November 29, 2013, 11:05:27 am
I am afraid their will be no 'stand together as I am sitting here in my emergency response vehicle at a SANRAL station watching the rush. There is no parking, people double park and stand quee and pay their e-toll or tags. One trucking company representative just bought for his fleet, was treated like a VIP. I am afraid that even if 50persent of SANRAL users don't buy a tag they will stil make huge profits. Many but many tags have been sold, empty boxes all over the show......

I had a word with the trucking company representative. He said they are not going to wait for bills and rather pay up, because like he said: 'in the end the consumer is paying for it, not the trucking company's problem'

@#5*3v!!!!!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 29, 2013, 11:10:57 am
Fukkin sellouts. , I hope they get punctures
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on November 29, 2013, 11:12:13 am
Fukkin sellouts. , I hope they get punctures

+100000
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 29, 2013, 11:13:25 am
ppl leaving the laager en masse now....

typical ZA mentality....bravado around the braai and forums, stealing out to the sanral offices in the back...

 :3some:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on November 29, 2013, 11:14:18 am
ppl leaving the laager en masse now....

typical ZA mentality....bravado around the braai and forums, stealing out to the sanral offices in the back...

 :3some:

Yea, it's actually disgusting.  Well I'm not following them.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ADVENTURE HUNTER on November 29, 2013, 11:16:46 am
ppl leaving the laager en masse now....

typical ZA mentality....bravado around the braai and forums, stealing out to the sanral offices in the back...

 :3some:

Yea, it's actually disgusting.  Well I'm not following them.
SLAPGATTE!!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 29, 2013, 11:38:48 am
ppl leaving the laager en masse now....

typical ZA mentality....bravado around the braai and forums, stealing out to the sanral offices in the back...

 :3some:

wanna bet?  come - put your money where your mouth is.  I will only pay if a court forces me too.  want to take me up on that?

come come
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 29, 2013, 11:42:55 am
We sadly still have too many slapgat immoral people in SA

Fuk e-tol
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 29, 2013, 11:52:28 am

wanna bet?  come - put your money where your mouth is.  I will only pay if a court forces me too.  want to take me up on that?

come come

 :thumleft: same here
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on November 29, 2013, 12:24:26 pm
Fvkem, should do a little Robert McBride number at the e-toll shops.  >:D

Damn, am I going to enjoy listening to these spineless gits whine and squeal like little bitches when they are paying normal rates and on the wrong side of R1500 a month when the discounts fall away and the tariffs are "revised"  :lol8: :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ortos on November 29, 2013, 12:39:53 pm
So who is it?

He goes by the name "Ortos" on this and other forums and will not be tagged - I pay enough faarking Taxes so the Turtle Man (Zuma ) and his corrupt bunch of motherf@ckers can take a long walk on a short pier!  >:( >:(
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on November 29, 2013, 12:40:53 pm
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on November 29, 2013, 12:42:24 pm
So who is it?

He goes by the name "Ortos" on this and other forums and will not be tagged - I pay enough faarking Taxes so the Turtle Man (Zuma ) and his corrupt bunch of motherf@ckers can take a long walk on a short pier!  >:( >:(

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 29, 2013, 12:46:18 pm

He goes by the name "Ortos" on this and other forums and will not be tagged - I pay enough faarking Taxes so the Turtle Man (Zuma ) and his corrupt bunch of motherf@ckers can take a long walk on a short pier!  >:( >:(

 :thumleft:
have you picked up any shit with those plates?

You must have received many "thumbs-ups"  :3some:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooies on November 29, 2013, 12:46:42 pm
So who is it?

He goes by the name "Ortos" on this and other forums and will not be tagged - I pay enough faarking Taxes so the Turtle Man (Zuma ) and his corrupt bunch of motherf@ckers can take a long walk on a short pier!  >:( >:(

 :thumleft:

I just got this from a colleague, total non-biker.  Seems you have gone viral  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 29, 2013, 12:48:47 pm
ppl leaving the laager en masse now....

typical ZA mentality....bravado around the braai and forums, stealing out to the sanral offices in the back...

 :3some:

wanna bet?  come - put your money where your mouth is.  I will only pay if a court forces me too.  want to take me up on that?

come come

You soft cock, the real rebel would refuse to recognise the validity of the court and refuse to pay even then....once you at the Hague then only agree to pay... unless u referring to the hague hey  :ricky:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ortos on November 29, 2013, 12:59:31 pm
So who is it?

He goes by the name "Ortos" on this and other forums and will not be tagged - I pay enough faarking Taxes so the Turtle Man (Zuma ) and his corrupt bunch of motherf@ckers can take a long walk on a short pier!  >:( >:(

 :thumleft:

I just got this from a colleague, total non-biker.  Seems you have gone viral  :thumleft:

Stopped next JMPD and they don't even look at you, worst case scenario is R500.00 fine for an illegal plate..........money well spent in my opinion.

Feel like a flippen celeb with the cell phone flashes BUT I`m not I view it as passive resistance............. ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ADVENTURE HUNTER on November 29, 2013, 01:04:01 pm
So who is it?

He goes by the name "Ortos" on this and other forums and will not be tagged - I pay enough faarking Taxes so the Turtle Man (Zuma ) and his corrupt bunch of motherf@ckers can take a long walk on a short pier!  >:( >:(

 :thumleft:

I just got this from a colleague, total non-biker.  Seems you have gone viral  :thumleft:

Stopped next JMPD and they don't even look at you, worst case scenario is R500.00 fine for an illegal plate..........money well spent in my opinion.

Feel like a flippen celeb with the cell phone flashes BUT I`m not I view it as passive resistance............. ;)
Well done - respect to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 29, 2013, 01:51:15 pm
Seen today in traffic

Hats off to whoever they are  :thumleft: :thumleft:

(http://www.abolton.co.za/upload/therightsstuff.jpg)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Flouw on November 29, 2013, 03:47:54 pm
http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/ (http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/)

did you know you can vote more than once.

please use your lunch time.....or any other time
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 29, 2013, 03:51:17 pm
http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/ (http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/)

did you know you can vote more than once.

please use your lunch time.....or any other time

it's a waste of time, as nobody in power is taking notice of polls - for now, we need to try and disrupt the collection of fees and next year, hopefully people will consider this when voting
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 29, 2013, 03:57:13 pm
http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/ (http://helloweb.co.za/Blog/)

did you know you can vote more than once.

please use your lunch time.....or any other time

it's a waste of time, as nobody in power is taking notice of polls - for now, we need to try and disrupt the collection of fees and next year, hopefully people will consider this when voting

I dont think its a waste of time, because a lot of people are wondering what to do and trying to decide which side will win so they can be on the winning side (a bit like Lions supporters who suddenly become Sharks supporters  :biggrin:) - SANRAL knows that and is pumping out press releases and warnings and threats  trying to get people to give up any thoughts of resistance and just go along.

We need to give people a view of how many people oppose the issue and wide spread the support is!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DRAZIL on November 29, 2013, 03:57:25 pm
I am afraid their will be no 'stand together as I am sitting here in my emergency response vehicle at a SANRAL station watching the rush. There is no parking, people double park and stand quee and pay their e-toll or tags. One trucking company representative just bought for his fleet, was treated like a VIP. I am afraid that even if 50persent of SANRAL users don't buy a tag they will stil make huge profits. Many but many tags have been sold, empty boxes all over the show......

I had a word with the trucking company representative. He said they are not going to wait for bills and rather pay up, because like he said: 'in the end the consumer is paying for it, not the trucking company's problem'

@#5*3v!!!!!!!

post photos of the jellyfish :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Flouw on November 29, 2013, 04:25:22 pm
as usual.
they implementing this over the festive season. hundreds of roadblocks, and they are going to try and force you to buy it.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on November 29, 2013, 05:34:47 pm
as usual.
they implementing this over the festive season. hundreds of roadblocks, and they are going to try and force you to buy it.

 it would be nice to get a list of businesses who support sanral , so we can boycott them

checkers is top of my list
Title: Re: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Smithers on November 29, 2013, 06:50:37 pm
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/30/8u6ybu5a.jpg)

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 29, 2013, 07:03:42 pm
as usual.
they implementing this over the festive season. hundreds of roadblocks, and they are going to try and force you to buy it.

 it would be nice to get a list of businesses who support sanral , so we can boycott them

checkers is top of my list


Ja agree.

Business leaders start needing to realise that they live in this country too, and its their future at stake along with the rest of us - but they have the power to influence the outcome more than many citizens do.

For example, if the car rental companies had announced that they would not be buying nor installing etags, because they did not agree with the whole thing and did not want to become part of SANRAL's debt collection mechanism, they would have a legal right to do so IMO.  I also think they would have endured themselves more to their clients. Plus just one press release along those line would have a very powerful effect on the public as well as the government.

Instead business leaders just seem to be falling over themselves to comply with what ever B/S the government serves up be it BBBBEEEEE, etolls or what ever.  Being law abiding doesnt mean you have to become a total dweeb and just go along with stuff you dont agree with, just because some twit in the  gov thought that might be a good idea!

They need to start adopting the F U attitude the taxi associations adopt when they dont agree with stuff IMO!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 29, 2013, 09:41:25 pm
aggeneeman! ek wil nie 60 dae, m.a.w. tot ~3Feb14 wag, voor ek kak optel nie  :xxbah:

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Martyn on November 30, 2013, 06:47:23 am
Now Avis want to profiteer with etolls: http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Avis-to-profit-off-e-tolling-20131128 (http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Avis-to-profit-off-e-tolling-20131128)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mzee on November 30, 2013, 06:54:15 am
as usual.
they implementing this over the festive season. hundreds of roadblocks, and they are going to try and force you to buy it.

 it would be nice to get a list of businesses who support sanral , so we can boycott them

checkers is top of my list



Ja agree.

Business leaders start needing to realise that they live in this country too, and its their future at stake along with the rest of us - but they have the power to influence the outcome more than many citizens do.

For example, if the car rental companies had announced that they would not be buying nor installing etags, because they did not agree with the whole thing and did not want to become part of SANRAL's debt collection mechanism, they would have a legal right to do so IMO.  I also think they would have endured themselves more to their clients. Plus just one press release along those line would have a very powerful effect on the public as well as the government.

Instead business leaders just seem to be falling over themselves to comply with what ever B/S the government serves up be it BBBBEEEEE, etolls or what ever.  Being law abiding doesnt mean you have to become a total dweeb and just go along with stuff you dont agree with, just because some twit in the  gov thought that might be a good idea!

They need to start adopting the F U attitude the taxi associations adopt when they dont agree with stuff IMO!

This underlines evilness of profit.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on November 30, 2013, 07:03:43 am
Traffic cop told me this morning (even the official cars like SAP, Fire, AMbulance are getting tagged) that they will also have road blocks to warn people to register ???  According to him; 'this is law'
We got issued with tags for the medical response bakkies and bikes. The bike one comes with a magnetic tank bracket and a handle bar bracket. I went inside the HQ building to see how the system operates and was stunned by the hi teq equipment. The highway is under camera survalience (at least 70 persent) and it records constandly. The overhead cameras and 'tag readers' and the data basis it is connected to is unbelievable. If it reads a numberplate and then later the same numberplate it automatically goes to the same account (account holder) This is mainly a Swedish system and like I said, real high teck. Once the got to your number plate or account you definately will be billed even if it takes long. According to the control room manager there is now way around it other than driving with no plates or false number plates..... And the cop also told me that they will check on plates etc in roadblocks. This is not 'lekker'....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mzee on November 30, 2013, 07:08:14 am
Traffic cop told me this morning (even the official cars like SAP, Fire, AMbulance are getting tagged) that they will also have road blocks to warn people to register ???  According to him; 'this is law'
We got issued with tags for the medical response bakkies and bikes. The bike one comes with a magnetic tank bracket and a handle bar bracket. I went inside the HQ building to see how the system operates and was stunned by the hi teq equipment. The highway is under camera survalience (at least 70 persent) and it records constandly. The overhead cameras and 'tag readers' and the data basis it is connected to is unbelievable. If it reads a numberplate and then later the same numberplate it automatically goes to the same account (account holder) This is mainly a Swedish system and like I said, real high teck. Once the got to your number plate or account you definately will be billed even if it takes long. According to the control room manager there is now way around it other than driving with no plates or false number plates..... And the cop also told me that they will check on plates etc in roadblocks. This is not 'lekker'....

TVB any man made thing has its opposite.  You can bet some clever oke will come out with  an effective antidote sooner or later.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 30, 2013, 07:12:03 am
Traffic cop told me this morning (even the official cars like SAP, Fire, AMbulance are getting tagged) that they will also have road blocks to warn people to register ???  According to him; 'this is law'
We got issued with tags for the medical response bakkies and bikes. The bike one comes with a magnetic tank bracket and a handle bar bracket. I went inside the HQ building to see how the system operates and was stunned by the hi teq equipment. The highway is under camera survalience (at least 70 persent) and it records constandly. The overhead cameras and 'tag readers' and the data basis it is connected to is unbelievable. If it reads a numberplate and then later the same numberplate it automatically goes to the same account (account holder) This is mainly a Swedish system and like I said, real high teck. Once the got to your number plate or account you definately will be billed even if it takes long. According to the control room manager there is now way around it other than driving with no plates or false number plates..... And the cop also told me that they will check on plates etc in roadblocks. This is not 'lekker'....

so you been inside the death star...and I sense you are weakening...... ;D

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mzee on November 30, 2013, 07:18:16 am
Traffic cop told me this morning (even the official cars like SAP, Fire, AMbulance are getting tagged) that they will also have road blocks to warn people to register ???  According to him; 'this is law'
We got issued with tags for the medical response bakkies and bikes. The bike one comes with a magnetic tank bracket and a handle bar bracket. I went inside the HQ building to see how the system operates and was stunned by the hi teq equipment. The highway is under camera survalience (at least 70 persent) and it records constandly. The overhead cameras and 'tag readers' and the data basis it is connected to is unbelievable. If it reads a numberplate and then later the same numberplate it automatically goes to the same account (account holder) This is mainly a Swedish system and like I said, real high teck. Once the got to your number plate or account you definately will be billed even if it takes long. According to the control room manager there is now way around it other than driving with no plates or false number plates..... And the cop also told me that they will check on plates etc in roadblocks. This is not 'lekker'....

so you been inside the death star...and I sense you are weakening...... ;D



I just want to laugh  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on November 30, 2013, 09:06:27 am
Well as I do get all my emergency calls from the SANRAL control room I got full access to the buildings. I spent the whole morning here and I am telling you now again this is high tech.  I asked the ingeneer now how will they know if I use a bike tag in a car. He showed me: once the vehicle goes through the gate the cameras measure the lengh of the vehicle (yes  it does!) and photograph the plate and within a second (even less than that) it all 'speaks togheter' (Tag, plate and length of vehicle)

I must honestly say I can't believe the system and even the high resolution of the cameras and that it can process the data instantly. The challange maybe will be the billing part. I can't even see how they can vandalize the gates.....these okes have done their homework. Our only hope is in continuos action/oposing against this - if the trucks and taxis take action we as publick must support and even participate....I don't know where this is going. Bulshit!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: buzzlightyear on November 30, 2013, 09:11:01 am
its Austrian not swedish
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on November 30, 2013, 09:24:37 am
Well as I do get all my emergency calls from the SANRAL control room I got full access to the buildings. I spent the whole morning here and I am telling you now again this is high tech.  I asked the ingeneer now how will they know if I use a bike tag in a car. He showed me: once the vehicle goes through the gate the cameras measure the lengh of the vehicle (yes  it does!) and photograph the plate and within a second (even less than that) it all 'speaks togheter' (Tag, plate and length of vehicle)

I must honestly say I can't believe the system and even the high resolution of the cameras and that it can process the data instantly. The challange maybe will be the billing part. I can't even see how they can vandalize the gates.....these okes have done their homework. Our only hope is in continuos action/oposing against this - if the trucks and taxis take action we as publick must support and even participate....I don't know where this is going. Bulshit!!!

thanks vir die info TVB :thumleft:

dis juis die kostes van al daai hi-tech shit wat my teen die e-tolling maak - van elke Rand toll wat betaal word, gaan daar omtrent dubbeld soveel geld in kolleksie in as wat in onderhoud van die paaie gaan - dis mos bullshit!


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on November 30, 2013, 09:55:17 am
Well as I do get all my emergency calls from the SANRAL control room I got full access to the buildings. I spent the whole morning here and I am telling you now again this is high tech.  I asked the ingeneer now how will they know if I use a bike tag in a car. He showed me: once the vehicle goes through the gate the cameras measure the lengh of the vehicle (yes  it does!) and photograph the plate and within a second (even less than that) it all 'speaks togheter' (Tag, plate and length of vehicle)

I must honestly say I can't believe the system and even the high resolution of the cameras and that it can process the data instantly. The challange maybe will be the billing part. I can't even see how they can vandalize the gates.....these okes have done their homework. Our only hope is in continuos action/oposing against this - if the trucks and taxis take action we as publick must support and even participate....I don't know where this is going. Bulshit!!!

Ja its quite simple - two hi res cameras create a combined 3D image of the vehicle and the take its measurements to see which tariff to apply, read the plates via OCR and match to tag if present.  The cameras look down at an angle of about 30 degrees from my own estimates.

To defeat it technically you would need to obscure the camera's vision and defeat the OCR, not that difficult - just saying  ;)

The real problem is sending out the bills every day for 3 million people, if they fall behind it starts mounting up, fast, and people keep moving EVERY DAY.

That's probably why they picked December to go live - roads are quieter, they are also maybe hoping the people who are determined to resist will have given up before mid January when the crowds get back.

Also remember these things will track your movements,  what are your rights about the government using that info against you?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on November 30, 2013, 10:07:32 am
very simple way of beating this thing, vote DA and make sure all tyour fellow laagerites do to...and the ppl that cut the lawn and iron yr shirts in the laager.....

then once the DA is in power the tolls will be abolished , to be replaced by some other collection method, moral is we are going to have to pay the inept idiocracy which is the ruling party have hocked the family jewels to pay for this ...... raping the pension funds etc ....... the social ramifications of not having this money collected an loans repayed are far far greater than the ills of the money needed....

the ANC have created this, get the word out , lets vote em out ...... ja right!! come april okes are still gonna say lets vote COPE or AGANG or some other inept party..... vote DA....clear an simple
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on November 30, 2013, 10:18:53 am
Yeah, Agang loves etolls. :imaposer:  cheap DA profiteering? They may can etolls, but never BEE/AA  :deal: :imaposer: 

http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious (http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 01, 2013, 05:19:41 am
Yeah, Agang loves etolls. :imaposer:  cheap DA profiteering? They may can etolls, but never BEE/AA  :deal: :imaposer: 

http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious (http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious)

vexatious, nice word that....

Agang will score less that EFF I reckon, they will not be representative, but DA ..well that's a different story, if you want to see real change a vote for AGANG is like voting for COPE, pointless.... but at least with AGANG u not going to see a leader vs leader tussle that ends up in court.......
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 01, 2013, 05:51:06 am
Traffic cop told me this morning (even the official cars like SAP, Fire, AMbulance are getting tagged) that they will also have road blocks to warn people to register ???  According to him; 'this is law'

 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
you know,  there's a lesson here.
do not take legal advise from anyone other than an attorney...
if a traffic cop had a brain in his head he would not be a traffic cop.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 01, 2013, 08:59:04 am
Yeah, Agang loves etolls. :imaposer:  cheap DA profiteering? They may can etolls, but never BEE/AA  :deal: :imaposer: 

http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious (http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious)

vexatious, nice word that....

Agang will score less that EFF I reckon, they will not be representative, but DA ..well that's a different story, if you want to see real change a vote for AGANG is like voting for COPE, pointless.... but at least with AGANG u not going to see a leader vs leader tussle that ends up in court.......

Ironically, a vote for the DA is useless in the long run. Its the only party in SA who has no chance of actually running the country.  So no, i will not be voting for Ian Smith's party. Same effect, the fragmented opposition then better do a power-sharing deal like they do in CT (and everyone thought its DA run:imaposer:)

The aim is not to give the ANC a 2/3 majority. A vote for any other party will see to that
Secondary aim is to put opposition parties in the position to challenge the ANC for outright control in certain wards and even provinces - a vote for any opposition party will do that too.
Too many DA councilors are floor crossers in any case.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 01, 2013, 11:09:26 am
http://www.watkykjy.co.za/2013/11/alles-wat-jy-oor-etolls-behoort-te-weet/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Watkykjy-DieAltemitAfreakaanseWebsiteOpDieInterwebs-NouAlVir9JaarLank+%28watkykjy+-+die+beste+Afrikaanse+blog+en+Website+in+die+heelal%29 (http://www.watkykjy.co.za/2013/11/alles-wat-jy-oor-etolls-behoort-te-weet/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Watkykjy-DieAltemitAfreakaanseWebsiteOpDieInterwebs-NouAlVir9JaarLank+%28watkykjy+-+die+beste+Afrikaanse+blog+en+Website+in+die+heelal%29)


http://www.watkykjy.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/sanral1.pdf (http://www.watkykjy.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/sanral1.pdf)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 01, 2013, 11:36:36 am
Yeah, Agang loves etolls. :imaposer:  cheap DA profiteering? They may can etolls, but never BEE/AA  :deal: :imaposer: 

http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious (http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious)

vexatious, nice word that....

Agang will score less that EFF I reckon, they will not be representative, but DA ..well that's a different story, if you want to see real change a vote for AGANG is like voting for COPE, pointless.... but at least with AGANG u not going to see a leader vs leader tussle that ends up in court.......

Ironically, a vote for the DA is useless in the long run. Its the only party in SA who has no chance of actually running the country.  So no, i will not be voting for Ian Smith's party. Same effect, the fragmented opposition then better do a power-sharing deal like they do in CT (and everyone thought its DA run:imaposer:)

The aim is not to give the ANC a 2/3 majority. A vote for any other party will see to that
Secondary aim is to put opposition parties in the position to challenge the ANC for outright control in certain wards and even provinces - a vote for any opposition party will do that too.
Too many DA councilors are floor crossers in any case.

I think you are wrong.

The DA is actually the only viable opposition IMO.  Forget about silly ideologies and self defeating "it will never happen, you cant beat them" type platitudes.  Just look at the facts.  They control the Western Cape and are gaining in lots of different places.  They have finally learn't that just contradicting the ANC in public isn't going to win over voters, but delivering services when the ANC isnt, will.

They need to stop slipping back into their old modes, of just whining about how the ANC is doing stuff badly, and just keep pointing out how places they control are better off than the equivalent ANC strongholds - thats working and it has the ANC on the back foot.  They aren't doing enough of that, they should be flooding us with statistics about all sort of comparisons.

The ANC and EFF are just appealing to stereotypes, assuming people are so thick they will ignore their living conditions.  I think that is a mistake - the delivery demonstrations point to that.

All the DA should start focusing on, is showing poor people living in DA areas are better off than those who don't, they should be flooding the media with that.  Its a powerful message that will filter through, regardless of how much the ANC et al try and distort it.

Voting for some splinter group just because, you dont like the DA, is relatively useless because that gives the ANC the guaranteed win in almost every case.

Helen Zille should move heaven and earth to absorb Agang because that woman is a real asset.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 01, 2013, 01:10:01 pm
Yeah, Agang loves etolls. :imaposer:  cheap DA profiteering? They may can etolls, but never BEE/AA  :deal: :imaposer: 

http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious (http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious)

vexatious, nice word that....

Agang will score less that EFF I reckon, they will not be representative, but DA ..well that's a different story, if you want to see real change a vote for AGANG is like voting for COPE, pointless.... but at least with AGANG u not going to see a leader vs leader tussle that ends up in court.......

Ironically, a vote for the DA is useless in the long run. Its the only party in SA who has no chance of actually running the country.  So no, i will not be voting for Ian Smith's party. Same effect, the fragmented opposition then better do a power-sharing deal like they do in CT (and everyone thought its DA run:imaposer:)

The aim is not to give the ANC a 2/3 majority. A vote for any other party will see to that
Secondary aim is to put opposition parties in the position to challenge the ANC for outright control in certain wards and even provinces - a vote for any opposition party will do that too.
Too many DA councilors are floor crossers in any case.

u should pay the tolls, that defeatist attitude is ripe for sanral's plucking :)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Tommy Transalp on December 01, 2013, 03:37:47 pm
Yeah, Agang loves etolls. :imaposer:  cheap DA profiteering? They may can etolls, but never BEE/AA  :deal: :imaposer: 

http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious (http://agangsa.org.za/news/entry/decision-on-e-tolls-is-arrogant-and-vexatious)

vexatious, nice word that....

Agang will score less that EFF I reckon, they will not be representative, but DA ..well that's a different story, if you want to see real change a vote for AGANG is like voting for COPE, pointless.... but at least with AGANG u not going to see a leader vs leader tussle that ends up in court.......

Ironically, a vote for the DA is useless in the long run. Its the only party in SA who has no chance of actually running the country.  So no, i will not be voting for Ian Smith's party. Same effect, the fragmented opposition then better do a power-sharing deal like they do in CT (and everyone thought its DA run:imaposer:)

The aim is not to give the ANC a 2/3 majority. A vote for any other party will see to that
Secondary aim is to put opposition parties in the position to challenge the ANC for outright control in certain wards and even provinces - a vote for any opposition party will do that too.
Too many DA councilors are floor crossers in any case.

u should pay the tolls, that defeatist attitude is ripe for sanral's plucking :)
Ja ICM.... please pay my toll .... I can't afford to pay the same for my bike as you are prepared to pay for yor Humvee! .... bye bye miss African pie! :middlefinger:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on December 01, 2013, 06:13:07 pm
Washed the car, now she is all clean and dressed up for the grand opening on Tuesday.  :biggrin: :biggrin:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1476256_10152051385304767_1110588914_n.jpg)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 01, 2013, 06:16:04 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: elandsrider on December 01, 2013, 06:26:06 pm
Is there no further appeal to the courts? Go live tuesday?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on December 01, 2013, 06:52:31 pm
Is there no further appeal to the courts? Go live tuesday?

Is the FF not having a go tomorrow?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on December 01, 2013, 06:54:37 pm
Ya FF in court tomorrow.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: elandsrider on December 01, 2013, 06:58:34 pm
If they manage to steam roll gauteng the rest of the country is doomed, gantries will start appearing and be put up by cronies........
Rooting for a win for democracy here!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 01, 2013, 07:28:42 pm
Washed the car, now she is all clean and dressed up for the grand opening on Tuesday.  :biggrin: :biggrin:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1476256_10152051385304767_1110588914_n.jpg)

good job! no room for confusion... :thumleft: ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 01, 2013, 07:33:27 pm
part of me wants to see e-tolls start on Tuesday, so I can incur some "debt" that I will most probably never repay and part of me wants to see the FF stop tolls again on Monday to see the frustration in ANC/SANRAL/ICM faces or is that faeces  ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Cracker on December 01, 2013, 08:10:36 pm
Aren't the FF going to court just to say it should start on Wednesday and not Tuesday?

what a great victory if they win ......................  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 01, 2013, 08:23:39 pm
More than starting a day later, must follow the whole process again. Ten to one 2 - 6 weeks. Imagine the loss of income. Fight them from all sides using all means.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 02, 2013, 07:18:00 am
Quote
Chance to vote out a government guilty of ignoring the electorate

December 1 2013 at 09:09am
By Mmusi Maimane


Musi Maimane says that in the 2014 election the inhabitants of all provinces have the chance to vote out the government that brought us e-tolls.

Johannesburg - In next year’s election, the citizens of Gauteng, and the inhabitants of all provinces, have the chance to vote out the government that brought us e-tolls.

There is no greater sign of a strong democracy than taking a stand against ludicrous and unwelcome decisions at the ballot box when the next election comes around. That is the very principle behind elections.

While that opportunity presents itself next year, we know that Minister Dipuo Peters has decided to start e-tolling us in the interim.

E-tolls kick in from tomorrow.

Sanral would like to make us believe that we should all rush out and buy e-tags. The fact, though, is that there is no law requiring any motorist to buy an e-tag. And there is no law requiring any motorist to register with Sanral.

Why would we register and buy a tracking device for our cars so that Sanral can take away our hard-earned money through an unjust system of e-tolls?

Law-abiding citizens of South Africa know that e-tolling blatantly flouts the laws meant to protect democracy in our country. Public consultation was all but non-existent. The act of Parliament invoking e-tolls was illegally passed, as the DA alleges in our latest court challenge to e-tolls. And the public outcry at e-tolls has been completely ignored.

It is a disgrace that citizens and the DA have had to spend millions of rand taking the government and Sanral to court to try to stop this daylight robbery. But the courts have had to be careful to intervene, because the government of the day has forged ahead.

Of course, we all favour upgraded infrastructure and better roads. No one can dispute that. But building better roads is the responsibility of the government, as much as it is their responsibility to pay for them. In fact, the government has collected from us every cent that it needed to pay for the road improvements across South Africa already – through the fuel levy since 1998.

Instead of spending it correctly, the money was blown on other things, including Nkandla and private flights around the globe for government fat cats.

So despite having had the money, and blowing it, improvements to Gauteng’s freeways went ahead. I often wonder if this was simply a rush job to make South Africa look better before the World Cup. When maintenance was so neglected, new roads had to be built, and they were built on the government credit card which we are now being forced to pay back.

But even with this rush, the rational motivation must have been that improved roads would grow the economy, and create jobs. We accept that Gauteng is the hub of the South African economy. If the government built these roads, having declared them essential for great growth and job creation, then the question we must ask is where is this growth? Where are the jobs? How can you make us pay for something that has failed to do what it should have done?

In fact, our growth rate is plummeting. It’s down this quarter to just 0.7 percent. So where is the real benefit of these expensive new roads? And on top of that, Gauteng is decreasing in its contribution to the gross domestic product of South Africa.

This means that we have an irrational and tenuous highway improvement plan; we have massive debt incurred in its construction because the fuel levy funds were blown elsewhere; we have a system to recoup this debt by fleecing ordinary citizens of our hard-earned money; and we have all of this with the threat of prosecution for failing to pay.

Who is it really in this cycle of failures who should be prosecuted? The innocent motorist who just needs to get to work each day; the parent who needs to get to school to collect their children; the small business owner who has to get to suppliers to buy business materials; or the entrepreneur who needs to get to consumers to sell their product?

That is not what I consider fair.

But here is what I believe will happen. Sanral will selectively bill motorists who pass under e-toll gantries.

Then they will identify high-profile individuals who don’t pay their e-toll accounts, and they will selectively prosecute them.

They will be out to make examples of people, and specifically people who they know will attract media attention. They will do this to try to coerce motorists to buy e-tags and register for e-tolls. You see, once you are registered, they have you locked in forever.

It goes without saying that this model of selective prosecution would be entirely unconstitutional. In fact, it violates every principle of natural justice. But just watch Sanral hide behind technical, systemic excuses as to why they aren’t able to prosecute everyone simultaneously.

I challenge Sanral chief executive Nazir Allie to come on record in good faith to declare that every motorist who passes under a gantry will be sent their due billing as and when it becomes due, and that every motorist will be simultaneously taken through the same legal process if they refuse to pay.

If he doesn’t, this is all just a circus and we can look forward to show trial after show trial.

The fact is that Sanral can only be intending to selectively prosecute. Our stretched court system simply could not accommodate more. For this reason, the threat of prosecution for failing to pay e-tolls is as much a farce as the system itself.

I will continue to stand firm against e-tolls. I will not buy an e-tag, and I will not pay e-tolls. They have been unlawfully forced upon us and we should not be held hostage by the threat of prosecution.

In next year’s election the citizens of Gauteng and South Africa can vote out e-tolls. I am running to become the premier of Gauteng and from that office I will do everything to stop them in Gauteng. No further e-tolls will be rolled out under my watch.

I have proposed to call a referendum for all people in Gauteng to vote on the system, and I am committed to doing this. While the ANC government pulls the wool over people’s eyes, I will make the citizens of Gauteng the drivers of change.

Next year’s election could not be more crucial. Stand on the side of change. Vote out the government that brought you e-tolls.

*Maimane is the DA leader for Gauteng.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 02, 2013, 08:24:29 am
Just vote DA, its the right thing to do  :biggrin:

E-tolls, proudly brought to you by the ANC and the slap gat wit ou that voted COPE  :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Cracker on December 02, 2013, 08:34:29 am
Hopefully they'll prosecute him first  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 02, 2013, 10:07:54 am
so are they actually turning these things on in about 20 hrs from now? :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Tommy Transalp on December 02, 2013, 10:28:24 am
so are they actually turning these things on in about 20 hrs from now? :peepwall:
If they pay their Eskom bill!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 02, 2013, 11:45:27 am
seems the FF have found a number of errors in this, interesting the angle they taking, lets see what happens....would be severe egg on the face if they achieve a stay here
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Flouw on December 02, 2013, 11:46:12 am
these things have been on for more than 8 months.

the avis bakkie i drove over the weekend has e-tag installed. nasty little plastic thing glued to the windscreen. as i went under the "gate" the light flashed, and beeped.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 02, 2013, 12:17:23 pm
these things have been on for more than 8 months.

the avis bakkie i drove over the weekend has e-tag installed. nasty little plastic thing glued to the windscreen. as i went under the "gate" the light flashed, and beeped.



It will beep but the 'account system' is not switch on yet. It beeps to tell you it is 'working' and has got enough money deposited in the vehicles reg. When it beeps once it tells you it works and there is enough money. When it beeps twice it warns you that it is running low on credit. 3 beeps says 'no credit-go see your SANRAL service station.

I hope the FF succeed, then it will only go live at a later stage in 2014. However, it will go live it is just a matter of time :(

Must say in the defence of 'the traffic cop' : there are a few on bikes who are also Wild dogs but with 'enough between the ears' not to start a dog fight here. I am talking of guys with degrees and diplomas behind their names, not just certificates . I respect a lot of these guys who are doing their best to safe guard our roads under a lot of pressure and safety concerns. One of those who got killed on an accident scene right next to me a couple of yesrs back when a car ignored the 'accident ahead' warning signs and traffic cones. A Very traumatic experience for us and his wife and little son.....think twice before you insult or generalize the 'traffic cops'. Many asholes out there in every proffesion.....cheers to safe riding and hopefully postponed e tolls!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 02, 2013, 12:19:34 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 02, 2013, 12:22:51 pm
Must say in the defence of 'the traffic cop' : there are a few on bikes who are also Wild dogs but with 'enough between the ears' not to start a dog fight here. I am talking of guys with degrees and diplomas behind their names, not just certificates . I respect a lot of these guys who are doing their best to safe guard our roads under a lot of pressure and safety concerns. One of those who got killed on an accident scene right next to me a couple of yesrs back when a car ignored the 'accident ahead' warning signs and traffic cones. A Very traumatic experience for us and his wife and little son.....think twice before you insult or generalize the 'traffic cops'. Many asholes out there in every proffesion.....cheers to safe riding and hopefully postponed e tolls!

typical of my bad luck.
i have only ever met the stupid,  rude,  corrupt,  lazy ones...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 02, 2013, 12:53:16 pm
Must say in the defence of 'the traffic cop' : there are a few on bikes who are also Wild dogs but with 'enough between the ears' not to start a dog fight here. I am talking of guys with degrees and diplomas behind their names, not just certificates . I respect a lot of these guys who are doing their best to safe guard our roads under a lot of pressure and safety concerns. One of those who got killed on an accident scene right next to me a couple of yesrs back when a car ignored the 'accident ahead' warning signs and traffic cones. A Very traumatic experience for us and his wife and little son.....think twice before you insult or generalize the 'traffic cops'. Many asholes out there in every proffesion.....cheers to safe riding and hopefully postponed e tolls!

typical of my bad luck.
i have only ever met the stupid,  rude,  corrupt,  lazy ones...

Your standards are too high
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on December 02, 2013, 01:07:50 pm
Must say in the defence of 'the traffic cop' : there are a few on bikes who are also Wild dogs but with 'enough between the ears' not to start a dog fight here. I am talking of guys with degrees and diplomas behind their names, not just certificates . I respect a lot of these guys who are doing their best to safe guard our roads under a lot of pressure and safety concerns. One of those who got killed on an accident scene right next to me a couple of yesrs back when a car ignored the 'accident ahead' warning signs and traffic cones. A Very traumatic experience for us and his wife and little son.....think twice before you insult or generalize the 'traffic cops'. Many asholes out there in every proffesion.....cheers to safe riding and hopefully postponed e tolls!

typical of my bad luck.
i have only ever met the stupid,  rude,  corrupt,  lazy ones...

Your standards are too high
Yeah...by the time you meet the really clever ones you in the High Court...  ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 02, 2013, 01:42:07 pm
OUTA spells out your etoll options

Quote
There is no need for motorists to buy e-tags to use Gauteng's freeways, the Opposition To Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) asserted on Monday ahead of the scheduled e-tolling implementation on Tuesday December 3.

“There is no law that requires road users to buy an e-tag or register with Sanral in order to use Gauteng’s freeways,” said chairman Wayne Duvenage.

He said getting an e-tag had nothing to do with being law abiding.

“But while getting e-tagged and registering with Sanral has nothing to do with being law abiding, what it does is to make Sanral’s task of enforcing e-tolling easier.”

AN E-TAG BINDS YOU

He said road users should be aware that getting an e-tag and registering with Sanral placed road users on Sanral's system and bound them to a contract to pay e-tolls.

“Getting e-tagged also limits the right of road users to object to paying tolls and to resist an unjust system.”

Ultimately, the choice whether to get e-tagged or not is up to each individual road user.

Non-tagged road users will, according to statements by Sanral and the e-Toll regulations, have seven days grace in which to pay for driving under a gantry. After the expiry of the week-long grace period, motorists will be sent an invoice by Sanral within 32 days.

TWO WAYS TO RESIST THE SYSTEM

Non-tagged road users can do one of the following, according to Outa:

1. To pay at a higher tariff, but after putting Sanral through its paces of invoicing and sending notices for payment and making it difficult for SANRAL to enforce e-tolling;

2. To refuse to pay e-tolls at all. In this case, further notices and demands for payment will be made by Sanral over time until finally Sanral may sue for payment in court and/or prosecute the road user for non-payment of toll. This may result in the road-user(s) having to defend their action in court.

TEST THE LAW

As regards the second option, Outa asserts that every individual citizen has the right to resist the enforcement of unlawful action by Government against him or her. In this regard, the courts have not finally ruled on whether e-tolling is lawful or unlawful and the Supreme Court of Appeal judgment has made it clear that it is still open to individuals to challenge the enforcement of e-tolling on the basis that it is unlawful.

Wayne Duvenage alleged that e-tolling was unlawful because, among others, Sanral had failed to comply with the law when it was supposed to properly inform the public of the intent to toll Gauteng’s freeways at the outset.

Also, because it allegedly failed to conduct the legally required public participation procedure in October 2007 for the N1, N3, N4 and N12 and April 2008 for the R21.

Outa has unsuccessfully tried to stop the introduction of e-tolling through court action.

Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced on November 20 that e-tolling of Gauteng's highways will begin on Tuesday.

The High Court in Pretoria is hearing a case brought by the Freedom Front Plus on the grounds that Peters made a technical error and got the start date wrong. FFPlus argued the e-tolling should have started only on December 4.

Sources: Sapa & Outa
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 02, 2013, 02:48:59 pm
FF lost

the mighty Sanral beast will roll tomorrow
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 02, 2013, 02:52:12 pm
Our xmas trip to Gauteng has been cancelled... no one wants to venture on the toll roads... :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kykdaar on December 02, 2013, 02:53:51 pm
Our xmas trip to Gauteng has been cancelled... no one wants to venture on the toll roads... :sip:

Dont worry - it will come to you 8)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 02, 2013, 02:54:39 pm
Our xmas trip to Gauteng has been cancelled... no one wants to venture on the toll roads... :sip:

Dont worry - it will come to you 8)

wahahaahahaha

Gauteng xmas trip, who the fuck comes to Gauteng for xmas
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Cracker on December 02, 2013, 03:25:59 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Tommy Transalp on December 02, 2013, 04:36:31 pm
The mighty SANRAL Beast will roll on an empty stomach.... how far can march with no food? Don't feed it and it will start eating its own ass! :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on December 02, 2013, 04:43:26 pm
Our xmas trip to Gauteng has been cancelled... no one wants to venture on the toll roads... :sip:

Dont worry - it will come to you 8)
Funny enough I have two families totalling in 8 that come up most years. Gat vol of us vaalies down at the coast. It is quiet here and we do have some good exploration areas and venues. One family cancelled because of the e crap.
wahahaahahaha

Gauteng xmas trip, who the fuck comes to Gauteng for xmas
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Draadwerk on December 02, 2013, 05:14:24 pm
FF lost

the mighty Sanral beast will roll tomorrow

It will continue tomorrow yes, but FF did not lose !!!

The matter was only struck off due to a lack of urgency - no decision or argument on the merit of the application had been heard yet. That will still happen in the near future.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on December 02, 2013, 06:41:38 pm
It's a travesty of freedom & justice..... the ultimate swindle legitimised and sanctioned by the Gov for cronyism...... we are morally and financially poorer off once again... >:(
Within every means ...rise up against it!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Operator on December 02, 2013, 06:53:12 pm
It's showtime.................tomorrow morning Mr Joe Public must put his money where his mouth is.  :deal:


Who's gonna win ?  Sanral or Joe Public  ?   (http://www.saforums.co.za/rlt/Smileys/default/duel11.gif)


 :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 02, 2013, 06:53:35 pm
seems like the church has come out against it!!! viva revolution. we have our own struggle comrades!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 02, 2013, 07:20:38 pm
seems like the church has come out against it!!! viva revolution. we have our own struggle comrades!
Loved it when SABC News (TV3) cut to the Twitter feed... and the first one is from Madela's former PA voicing her contempt... the rest were in the same vein... :imaposer:
Brainwash fail! :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Wozzels on December 02, 2013, 07:27:33 pm
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Geriatrix on December 02, 2013, 09:11:27 pm

typical of my bad luck.
i have only ever met the stupid,  rude,  corrupt,  lazy ones...

I have worked with many Policemen and Women for whom I have the highest respect and regard. Unlike people who post on this List.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 02, 2013, 09:49:28 pm

typical of my bad luck.
i have only ever met the stupid,  rude,  corrupt,  lazy ones...

I have worked with many Policemen and Women for whom I have the highest respect and regard. Unlike people who post on this List.

do you mean you haven't worked with many people on this "List"?
Or do you mean you have judged people on this "List" by their opinions or the way they express them?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Grrrr.... on December 02, 2013, 10:08:46 pm
 ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DR BIG 750 on December 03, 2013, 06:04:25 am
Mymate called me this morn about 5.30 he has not registered and he took the side roads from Bryanston to Grand Central airport he said that traffic is substantially heavier on side roads so leave earlier if you on them
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 06:09:21 am

typical of my bad luck.
i have only ever met the stupid,  rude,  corrupt,  lazy ones...

I have worked with many Policemen and Women for whom I have the highest respect and regard. Unlike people who post on this List.

now what kind kak statement is that ...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: fixit on December 03, 2013, 06:23:06 am

typical of my bad luck.
i have only ever met the stupid,  rude,  corrupt,  lazy ones...

I have worked with many Policemen and Women for whom I have the highest respect and regard. Unlike people who post on this List.

now what kind kak statement is that ...


Must be the side effect of the anesthetics?  :biggrin: 

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 03, 2013, 06:35:58 am
Racked up some toll fees this morning. E-Tag free of course  :thumleft:

Took a bit of a detour. Managed to only pass under 1 gantry where on my normal route it would be 4. Full rate is R3.90 which is not going to break the bank. Please send me my R25 registered bill to collect your R3.90 SANRAL  >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 03, 2013, 06:41:00 am
Racked up some toll fees this morning. E-Tag free of course  :thumleft:

Took a bit of a detour. Managed to only pass under 1 gantry where on my normal route it would be 4. Full rate is R3.90 which is not going to break the bank. Please send me my R25 registered bill to collect your R3.90 SANRAL  >:D


good on you,  my midget friend.
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Slingervel on December 03, 2013, 06:41:12 am
From Centurion to Bryanston I found the traffic was the same as any other day.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on December 03, 2013, 06:54:05 am
My groot issue is die lisensie owerhede - baie keer - gebruik die straat adres om die voertuig te registreer alhoewel daar nie pos by daai adres afgelewer word nie.

Nou  WTF nou?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Veldbrand on December 03, 2013, 06:57:12 am
I sincerely hope you guys are all taking full advantage of the photo opportunity and giving them the one finger salute every time you pass a gantry.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on December 03, 2013, 07:00:52 am
I sincerely hope you guys are all taking full advantage of the photo opportunity and giving them the one finger salute every time you pass a gantry.  :biggrin:

Gelukkig as ek in daai area is ry ek met 'n garage plaat op die seat..... Hulle se gatte
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: rexst on December 03, 2013, 07:17:33 am
By passed the gantries, I think its anyway just one but still Fuc'em e toll free
 
i think we need to make the people who register/bought a nice


Puss-y Sticker
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 07:19:38 am
By passed the gantries, I think its anyway just one but still Fuc'em e toll free
 
i think we need to make the people who register/bought a nice


Puss-y Sticker


They are just protecting their families ffs :imaposer:  bittereinders and the joiners.....   Farking joiners :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dookie on December 03, 2013, 07:21:11 am
Racked up some toll fees this morning. E-Tag free of course  :thumleft:

Took a bit of a detour. Managed to only pass under 1 gantry where on my normal route it would be 4. Full rate is R3.90 which is not going to break the bank. Please send me my R25 registered bill to collect your R3.90 SANRAL  >:D

Well done Dwergie!
Every little twit..........I mean "bit" helps.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 07:25:26 am
Pity they cant see the opportunity to find a cause to unite against government thieving and corruption.  People from all walks of life.  But no, the nihilist cant see the the value of sacrifice for the collective good. We are a country of individual egocentric disjointed sheep. Its all about the individual in this country. Fok my maaitjie, solank ek score.

Ek kots sommer op n gantry.....  Spineless narcissists, thats us.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 03, 2013, 07:27:54 am
Evita says, Egoli now becomes Etoli.

I feel proud of those who resist this flagrant stealing of roadfunds by ANC.

Churches calling on people to resist bullying government and unjust laws. Like the tweeter asked, sounds familiar?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Martyn on December 03, 2013, 07:29:11 am
Me thinks the hackers are helping, the etoll website appears to have crashed :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 03, 2013, 07:30:40 am
Me thinks the hackers are helping, the etoll website appears to have crashed :pot:



 :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Takashi on December 03, 2013, 07:30:48 am
My daily commute uses one toll gate in the morning and one toll gate in the afternoon.

They can send me a bill. Or I should say they can send my father a bill as the car is still registered in his name.
He is currently working overseas. He wants proof that its his vehicle before paying so he knows who to bill. :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 03, 2013, 07:32:55 am
way too many people bought tags  :-\

Wayne Duvenage @wayneduv
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#eTolls Less than 900K tagged up from 2,5m Gauteng freeway users = less than 40% uptake. Well done other 60% patriotic citizens
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 07:51:15 am
Quote
Four in 10 ‘might buy e-tags’: survey

November 29 2013 at 06:44pm
By SAPA

Comment on this story
IOL tolls sep 20

Independent Newspapers



Johannesburg - Four in 10 Gauteng motorists polled in an e-toll survey indicated that they might buy e-tags, or already had, marketing research company Ipsos said on Friday.

According to the study, conducted from October 11 to November 21, only one in 10 drivers in Gauteng (10 percent) strongly agreed with the statement “I have bought an e-toll tag already or intend to buy one”, Ipsos said in a statement.

It said an additional 28 percent had agreed with the statement.

In a study conducted in April and May last year, 14 percent of Gauteng drivers polled indicated that they had bought, or intended to buy an e-toll tag.

“Taking those that 'strongly agree' and 'agree' together, this figure has now risen to 38 percent (ie about four in every 10 motorists), illustrating that although some people are complying with the new rules regarding e-tags, almost the same proportion are adopting a 'wait and see' attitude,” Ipsos said.

Last week, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced that e-tolling on Gauteng highways would come into effect on Tuesday.

The move has sparked widespread opposition, with trade unions and political parties vowing to explore all possible avenues to resist the system.

Sapa

60% rejection!  Quite high.  Most analysts have been saying that SANRAL can only deal with 10-20%!

And most of the people that bought etags did so "unwillingly", they shouldn't have done so because what they think is the safe option may not be, because with the challenges to the constitutionality of non-payment still to come, those with etags have signed away their rights.

I think the crunch is going to happen about February, when the crowds get back from holiday and SANRAL starts needing more cash than its collecting through etags.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 07:56:17 am
Quote
Church leaders vow e-toll defiance

December 2 2013 at 06:11pm
By SAPA



Johannesburg - Church leaders vowed on Monday to refuse to pay to use Gauteng freeways and called on others to do the same.

“We... church leaders, have therefore decided to publicly declare our intention to refuse to buy e-tags and to refuse to pay this unjust e-toll,” they said in a statement.

“... We call on all other church leaders, members of our churches and all South Africans who support democracy to do the same.”

The leaders, including SA Council of Churches president Bishop Jo Seoka, the Central Methodist Mission's Bishop Paul Verryn, and Methodist Church of Southern Africa presiding Bishop Zipho Siwa, said the decision had not been easy.

However, it had to be made as the government was not listening to the people.

They said they were shocked and disappointed to hear the government ignore the people's protests and push ahead with e-tolls.

Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced on November 20 that e-tolling of Gauteng's highways would begin on Tuesday.

The religious leaders said they had twice met the government and pleaded that another form of recovering costs be found. They had recommended the fuel levy as an alternative.

“We made it clear that we reject assertions that this fuel levy would be unfair to those who do not use these roads,” they said.

“Is it unfair for taxes raised in Gauteng to be used to ensure that children in Limpopo receive the education they deserve? Is it unfair for sick people in Mpumalanga to be treated in hospitals funded by taxes raised in Gauteng or in the Western Cape?”

They called on society to support those who opposed the system, and said that while it was their duty to encourage obedience to the law, this depended on the law being just and reasonable.

“Even if many others do not feel that they are in a position to join the ranks of those who choose this path, it is very important that we all give them support and encouragement, that we do not allow them to be singled out and coerced.”

Sapa
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ShadedGS on December 03, 2013, 07:57:27 am
I would like to think optimistically, that once those poor muppets who fell into the trap see the rest of the population without e-snags, they'll also start leaving them at home....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Xchallenge on December 03, 2013, 08:03:45 am
Happy Birthday eToll SA, you can suck my Toll-e! I aint getting no eTag. Full Stop!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 03, 2013, 08:04:01 am
Ok read now that alternate users get charged around 2.5x full rate. So around 20 bucks per day for me. Small price to pay for a little civil disobedience. My years of listening to punk rock is finally paying off  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: masehare on December 03, 2013, 08:05:06 am
Sorry to piss on your batteries guys, but petrol is also going up 17c / liter tonight. Wish I could help with the cause from down here in CPT.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ShadedGS on December 03, 2013, 08:05:53 am
03-12-13 will be remembered as the day the uprising started... They'll call it the African Spring...  :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 08:09:41 am
I would like to think optimistically, that once those poor muppets who fell into the trap see the rest of the population without e-snags, they'll also start leaving them at home....

Not really going to help them, their signature is on the form, they are bound by the terms.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Xchallenge on December 03, 2013, 08:10:52 am
I dont have a number plate on my bike.
I will not buy an eTag.
Unfortunately, I have not found a way to avoid putting in petrol...just yet.

LOL
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Skip_ZA on December 03, 2013, 08:14:34 am
I would like to think optimistically, that once those poor muppets who fell into the trap see the rest of the population without e-snags, they'll also start leaving them at home....

Not really going to help them, their signature is on the form, they are bound by the terms.

Easiest way would be to sell the car.. The tag is registered to a specific car.

I think thats a way out? Or what?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 08:15:37 am
Change is always traumatic...... there is always resistance to change , its the human way....

and this is severe change, its going to change our driving patterns, affect the social aspects of our lives, affect the business aspects of our lives....maybe less braais and kuiers and less leaving of the laager....

fact is whether you recognise this or not, the sanral/anc alliance are to deep in the hole to pull out of this now...... so these gantries aint going anywhere.....

so curl up in your corner with your security blankie, call everyone else names if that is how u deal with change but deal with it....this is the reality ..

lets fight real issues instead, crime , corruption ...or have you okes given up on that one as its too tough
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on December 03, 2013, 08:16:23 am
Went through one in the cage this morning and gave the the one finger salute with both hands...!  :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 03, 2013, 08:17:25 am
Change is always traumatic...... there is always resistance to change , its the human way....

and this is severe change, its going to change our driving patterns, affect the social aspects of our lives, affect the business aspects of our lives....maybe less braais and kuiers and less leaving of the laager....

fact is whether you recognise this or not, the sanral/anc alliance are to deep in the hole to pull out of this now...... so these gantries aint going anywhere.....

so curl up in your corner with your security blankie, call everyone else names if that is how u deal with change but deal with it....this is the reality ..

lets fight real issues instead, crime , corruption ...or have you okes given up on that one as its too tough

Sellout  :thefinger:

E-tolls fall under crime and corruption in my book
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: BLK on December 03, 2013, 08:18:02 am
I dont have a number plate on my bike.
I will not buy an eTag.
Unfortunately, I have not found a way to avoid putting in petrol...just yet.

LOL
You can now buy electric off rd bikes now from "Dual Sport Africa".Then get solar power to charge bike?
 ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: masehare on December 03, 2013, 08:18:51 am
I would like to think optimistically, that once those poor muppets who fell into the trap see the rest of the population without e-snags, they'll also start leaving them at home....

Not really going to help them, their signature is on the form, they are bound by the terms.

Easiest way would be to sell the car.. The tag is registered to a specific car.

I think thats a way out? Or what?

I can see the secondhand market asking more for cars without e-tags.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Skip_ZA on December 03, 2013, 08:22:08 am
I would like to think optimistically, that once those poor muppets who fell into the trap see the rest of the population without e-snags, they'll also start leaving them at home....

Not really going to help them, their signature is on the form, they are bound by the terms.

Easiest way would be to sell the car.. The tag is registered to a specific car.

I think thats a way out? Or what?

I can see the secondhand market asking more for cars without e-tags.

Ja but once i Buy a second hand car/bike that has an etag.. It wasn't you who signed the electronic terms and conditions, so technically you can throw it away!! The previous owner needs to de-register the tag AFAIK when he sells the car...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 03, 2013, 08:22:59 am
Change is always traumatic...... there is always resistance to change , its the human way....

and this is severe change, its going to change our driving patterns, affect the social aspects of our lives, affect the business aspects of our lives....maybe less braais and kuiers and less leaving of the laager....

fact is whether you recognise this or not, the sanral/anc alliance are to deep in the hole to pull out of this now...... so these gantries aint going anywhere.....

so curl up in your corner with your security blankie, call everyone else names if that is how u deal with change but deal with it....this is the reality ..

lets fight real issues instead, crime , corruption ...or have you okes given up on that one as its too tough

Hey come on now they just got the backing of the church ok!! The tide has turned!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Groenie on December 03, 2013, 08:24:09 am
I did my bit for e-Toll this morn. 2 gantries on the way to work. Fuggem
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 03, 2013, 08:24:59 am
Am I right in assuming they have access to your bank account if you have a tag?  :eek7:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 03, 2013, 08:26:02 am
Fuggem

exactly.
they can fuck themselves to death.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on December 03, 2013, 08:27:19 am
Me thinks the hackers are helping, the etoll website appears to have crashed :pot:

I sincerely hope that this is not a bunch of sheeple trying to go on to register...  :eek7:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 08:28:35 am
Am I right in assuming they have access to your bank account if you have a tag?  :eek7:

no they do not , more drivel .... you can allow them that though same as u do when u sign an HP lease etc etc ....but only an idiot would allow that htye
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 03, 2013, 08:29:09 am
yep it has crashed  :patch:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: BLK on December 03, 2013, 08:29:45 am
If you look at "Tom Tom" live traffic on your pc you can see how the traffic has diverted and creating traffic flow issues by not travelling down the motorway from edenvale to Rivonia direction.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on December 03, 2013, 08:31:29 am
If you look at "Tom Tom" live traffic on your pc you can see how the traffic has diverted and creating traffic flow issues by not travelling down the motorway from edenvale to Rivonia direction.

There were issues on all the so called 'alternative' routes.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 08:33:06 am
Change is always traumatic...... there is always resistance to change , its the human way....

and this is severe change, its going to change our driving patterns, affect the social aspects of our lives, affect the business aspects of our lives....maybe less braais and kuiers and less leaving of the laager....

fact is whether you recognise this or not, the sanral/anc alliance are to deep in the hole to pull out of this now...... so these gantries aint going anywhere.....

so curl up in your corner with your security blankie, call everyone else names if that is how u deal with change but deal with it....this is the reality ..

lets fight real issues instead, crime , corruption ...or have you okes given up on that one as its too tough

Just because the gantries are there is not a good enough reason to comply.  

Opposing this is opposing the government who are ignoring their duty and just dreaming up ways to enrich themselves and their buddies - where do you think that huge chunk of collection fees is going?  Who shares it once it gets offshore (quite a stroke of genius that, why bother smuggling your money into your Swiss bank account when you can just "pay a foreign supplier"!).

If we stop them here we stop them continuing down that same path.  and borrow from the Scottish anthem "...and make them think again!"
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on December 03, 2013, 08:36:12 am
Change is always traumatic...... there is always resistance to change , its the human way....

and this is severe change, its going to change our driving patterns, affect the social aspects of our lives, affect the business aspects of our lives....maybe less braais and kuiers and less leaving of the laager....

fact is whether you recognise this or not, the sanral/anc alliance are to deep in the hole to pull out of this now...... so these gantries aint going anywhere.....

so curl up in your corner with your security blankie, call everyone else names if that is how u deal with change but deal with it....this is the reality ..

lets fight real issues instead, crime , corruption ...or have you okes given up on that one as its too tough

Just because the gantries are there is not a good enough reason to comply.  

Opposing this is opposing the government who are ignoring their duty and just dreaming up ways to enrich themselves and their buddies - where do you think that huge chunk of collection fees is going?  Who shares it once it gets offshore (quite a stroke of genius that, why bother smuggling your money into your Swiss bank account when you can just "pay a foreign supplier"!).

If we stop them here we stop them continuing down that same path.  and borrow from the Scottish anthem "...and make them think again!"

They can much rather use those gantries for speed prosecution, law enforcement etc etc. By doing that, our roads might be safer.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 03, 2013, 08:38:44 am
They can much rather use those gantries for speed prosecution, law enforcement etc etc. By doing that, our roads might be safer.

Verseker! Mense jaag soos mal goed op die highway in die oggende
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Skip_ZA on December 03, 2013, 08:42:09 am
just getting back to the Agreement you signed if you bought an etag:

Section H: Ending the Agreement
1. You may end this Agreement at any time

You may end this Agreement at any time by contacting us using one of the contact methods set out in ‘1. Ways you can contact us’ of this section, ‘Section G: Queries, disputes and contacting each other’. This is called ‘giving notice to end the Agreement’. In this notice, you must tell us the date that you want this Agreement toend. The date you choose must not be a date in the past. The Agreement will end at 23h 59m on the day that you choose. When the Agreement ends, you will no longer be registered with us and you will be categorised as an alternate user if you use the GFIP-toll roads. It is important to note that, even after this Agreement ends, you might still qualify for the lower VLN tariff for the GFIP-toll roads if you pay for e-toll transactions within the grace period.


2. You are responsible for certain amounts

We will stop collecting money from your bank account or charging your credit card for e-toll transactions that take place after you end this Agreement. However, you remain responsible for all e-toll transactions and other fees that you incur before the Agreement ends. This also includes fees for the e-tag and the e-tag bracket/holder (or arm band, in the case of motor cycles) if you do not return these at the end of this Agreement. Any duty you might have under the law to pay for e-toll transactions continues.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Flouw on December 03, 2013, 08:44:30 am
ok. so hear me out.

a few months ago they said the need exactly so much money.
and some calculations was done, and said it will take so many cars, so many days etc.

why dont they put up a HUGE electronic billboard. and as you drive through the toll gate, you will see your 30 odd cents being added.
let the public monitor it. and once the amount has been reached. BAM, the lights go out, and the fookin things gets used for whatever.

they claim in anyway everything is "automated"

i still wont get a tag. so sorry
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 08:47:00 am
just getting back to the Agreement you signed if you bought an etag:

Section H: Ending the Agreement
1. You may end this Agreement at any time

You may end this Agreement at any time by contacting us using one of the contact methods set out in ‘1. Ways you can contact us’ of this section, ‘Section G: Queries, disputes and contacting each other’. This is called ‘giving notice to end the Agreement’. In this notice, you must tell us the date that you want this Agreement toend. The date you choose must not be a date in the past. The Agreement will end at 23h 59m on the day that you choose. When the Agreement ends, you will no longer be registered with us and you will be categorised as an alternate user if you use the GFIP-toll roads. It is important to note that, even after this Agreement ends, you might still qualify for the lower VLN tariff for the GFIP-toll roads if you pay for e-toll transactions within the grace period.


2. You are responsible for certain amounts

We will stop collecting money from your bank account or charging your credit card for e-toll transactions that take place after you end this Agreement. However, you remain responsible for all e-toll transactions and other fees that you incur before the Agreement ends. This also includes fees for the e-tag and the e-tag bracket/holder (or arm band, in the case of motor cycles) if you do not return these at the end of this Agreement. Any duty you might have under the law to pay for e-toll transactions continues.


Oh that's good!

So those that bought etags can still dump them if they have a change of heart  :thumleft:

So its not just a one way valve.  So that 60% could increase still.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on December 03, 2013, 08:47:47 am
ok. so hear me out.

a few months ago they said the need exactly so much money.
and some calculations was done, and said it will take so many cars, so many days etc.

why dont they put up a HUGE electronic billboard. and as you drive through the toll gate, you will see your 30 odd cents being added.
let the public monitor it. and once the amount has been reached. BAM, the lights go out, and the fookin things gets used for whatever.

they claim in anyway everything is "automated"

i still wont get a tag. so sorry

If only it was that simple. These fuckers will keep on taking as they have been since day 1...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 08:49:13 am
ok. so hear me out.

a few months ago they said the need exactly so much money.
and some calculations was done, and said it will take so many cars, so many days etc.

why dont they put up a HUGE electronic billboard. and as you drive through the toll gate, you will see your 30 odd cents being added.
let the public monitor it. and once the amount has been reached. BAM, the lights go out, and the fookin things gets used for whatever.

they claim in anyway everything is "automated"

i still wont get a tag. so sorry
Fantastic idea that!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Operator on December 03, 2013, 08:56:04 am
Nando's is in on the game.  :snorting:


(http://www.route42.co.za/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=286.0;attach=9962;image)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: McSack on December 03, 2013, 08:56:08 am
Some clever oke on another forum did some calculations, and with the amount of ammo the malakas at SANRAL have loaned, it looks like  there's very little chance they will be able to service there debt on this kuk never mind pay it off any time soon

Will see if I can find his post [edit ... here you go http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/578739-What-Sanral-Don-t-Want-You-To-Know-About-E-Tolls (http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/578739-What-Sanral-Don-t-Want-You-To-Know-About-E-Tolls)

I don't normally use the toll roads on my morning commute but purposely went that way this morning ... I'll be doing the same at least once a week
Send me a bill SANRAL ... some chops at licensing decided it would be a good idea to do a "data cleanup" and now all my vehicles are registered at an address I last lived at 15 years ago
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 08:56:35 am
ok. so hear me out.

a few months ago they said the need exactly so much money.
and some calculations was done, and said it will take so many cars, so many days etc.

why dont they put up a HUGE electronic billboard. and as you drive through the toll gate, you will see your 30 odd cents being added.
let the public monitor it. and once the amount has been reached. BAM, the lights go out, and the fookin things gets used for whatever.

they claim in anyway everything is "automated"

i still wont get a tag. so sorry

If they really were interested in "just paying off the road improvements they would have adopted the fuel levy suggestion, or just paid for out of existing taxes - this is not about that IMO.  This is just new exciting way of collecting a shit load of extra money - of which a huge proportion gets siphoned off "for collection fees" - that's what makes this scheme so attractive to them, they cant siphon off the fuel levy.  Which is why they are so determined for it to go ahead.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on December 03, 2013, 09:06:29 am
Ok Sanral, you can now send me my R25 registered letter to ask for your R6 toll I chalked up this morning.
Heard on the radio this morning, that a guy who bought e-tags for his and his missus cars in the beginning, lost the missus car due to a hijacking, with the e-tag in it.
This morning he goes under the gantry and it beeps him that he has no money in his account.
Turns out Sanral debited him R150 for loosing  their property.

Now here is an interesting thing, there is a discount structure in place depending what time of the day you drive, with the greater discounts during the quite hours and the lesser discounts during the busier hours, on a sliding scale, however, it would appear that there are no discounts offered for travel at peak times, i.e 7-9am and 4-6pm.
During these times, everybody pays the higher rate, tagged or not.  :lol8: :lol8:
When the Sanral website comes back up, use the calculator and do a little exercise, put it your route during peak time with and without a tag, the figure remains the same.
How those discounts working out for the joiners now.  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on December 03, 2013, 09:19:46 am
 :)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 09:21:07 am
Ok Sanral, you can now send me my R25 registered letter to ask for your R6 toll I chalked up this morning.
Heard on the radio this morning, that a guy who bought e-tags for his and his missus cars in the beginning, lost the missus car due to a hijacking, with the e-tag in it.
This morning he goes under the gantry and it beeps him that he has no money in his account.
Turns out Sanral debited him R150 for loosing  their property.

Now here is an interesting thing, there is a discount structure in place depending what time of the day you drive, with the greater discounts during the quite hours and the lesser discounts during the busier hours, on a sliding scale, however, it would appear that there are no discounts offered for travel at peak times, i.e 7-9am and 4-6pm.
During these times, everybody pays the higher rate, tagged or not.  :lol8: :lol8:
When the Sanral website comes back up, use the calculator and do a little exercise, put it your route during peak time with and without a tag, the figure remains the same.
How those discounts working out for the joiners now.  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:



I think you should check yr facts before putting kak out on the internet hey... makes your sanctimounoisness look even more stupid too
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 03, 2013, 09:27:16 am
Now we know why the site was down  :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Inprogress on December 03, 2013, 09:27:53 am
Pity they cant see the opportunity to find a cause to unite against government thieving and corruption.  People from all walks of life.  But no, the nihilist cant see the the value of sacrifice for the collective good. We are a country of individual egocentric disjointed sheep. Its all about the individual in this country. Fok my maaitjie, solank ek score.

Ek kots sommer op n gantry.....  Spineless narcissists, thats us.

Yup....sad state of affairs really.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 09:33:10 am
a biker chick with guts

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Inprogress on December 03, 2013, 09:37:58 am
Our xmas trip to Gauteng has been cancelled... no one wants to venture on the toll roads... :sip:

Dont worry - it will come to you 8)

wahahaahahaha

Gauteng xmas trip, who the fuck comes to Gauteng for xmas

Who in their right mind buys an e-tag?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Andre.Bike on December 03, 2013, 09:41:57 am
Good for that girl....  Dit is net nog n manier om geld uit ons te wurm... soos hulle met die huis se rates en taxes doen om dit gedurig op te skyf... Hoe meer hulle het hoe meer kan die donner steel   :angry4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Goose on December 03, 2013, 10:00:03 am
just getting back to the Agreement you signed if you bought an etag:

Section H: Ending the Agreement
1. You may end this Agreement at any time

You may end this Agreement at any time by contacting us using one of the contact methods set out in ‘1. Ways you can contact us’ of this section, ‘Section G: Queries, disputes and contacting each other’. This is called ‘giving notice to end the Agreement’. In this notice, you must tell us the date that you want this Agreement toend. The date you choose must not be a date in the past. The Agreement will end at 23h 59m on the day that you choose. When the Agreement ends, you will no longer be registered with us and you will be categorised as an alternate user if you use the GFIP-toll roads. It is important to note that, even after this Agreement ends, you might still qualify for the lower VLN tariff for the GFIP-toll roads if you pay for e-toll transactions within the grace period.


2. You are responsible for certain amounts

We will stop collecting money from your bank account or charging your credit card for e-toll transactions that take place after you end this Agreement. However, you remain responsible for all e-toll transactions and other fees that you incur before the Agreement ends. This also includes fees for the e-tag and the e-tag bracket/holder (or arm band, in the case of motor cycles) if you do not return these at the end of this Agreement. Any duty you might have under the law to pay for e-toll transactions continues.



Sorry chaps - but anyone that believed the crap in the terms above - needs their head read!!   :patch:

Have any of you ever dealt with government or councils - to try and have bills or payments altered, tried to get refunds from them...........?  No matter what the "terms" say you can and cannot do......... or how you can cancel the agreement - FFS you wil kark and pay until THEY decide they will change it or refund or stop deducting funds... and THEN there's the duplicate e-Tags or "other" tags accientally registered to your name & account.... which you'd have to prove was not you etc. etc.         anyone foolish enough to believe that they are safe guarded by these terms - deserves to be taken for a ride (no pun intended) ............

remember the saying .......... a fool and his money is soon parted! 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 03, 2013, 10:00:57 am
Now we know why the site was down  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Oh and to the guys that have registered, if it's this easy to hack the site, your personal details are probably well circulated by now  :deal:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on December 03, 2013, 10:06:52 am
Now we know why the site was down  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Oh and to the guys that have registered, if it's this easy to hack the site, your personal details are probably well circulated by now  :deal:

Goeie fok! Dankie tog ek het nie. Dis net so goed as jou persoonlike details direk vir Zuma te gee...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Martyn on December 03, 2013, 10:21:33 am
Now we know why the site was down  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Oh and to the guys that have registered, if it's this easy to hack the site, your personal details are probably well circulated by now  :deal:

Goeie fok! Dankie tog ek het nie. Dis net so goed as jou persoonlike details direk vir Zuma te gee...

But our esteemed president just signed the privacy bill, they are not allowed to circulate our information, that would be breaking the Law :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 03, 2013, 10:37:39 am

But our esteemed president just signed the privacy bill, they are not allowed to circulate our information, that would be breaking the Law :pot:
Like that is a problem... Inkandla? :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on December 03, 2013, 10:40:00 am
 :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ventana on December 03, 2013, 10:41:52 am
Bit of a shocker this morning.  Picked up a Class B Avis car and they've added R400 to the deposit - refundable upon return less any e-Toll charges incurred.

I dont have a problem with Avis recovering charges - but what happens when the same car is used throughout the month by different drivers, and lets say they all use the highways so that the maximum toll is recovered (I think it's R450 per month).  By implication the drivers at the beginning of each month will get klapped and those driving at the end of the month should get their deposit back........or am i missing something?

If i'm right this is the last time I hire a car at the beginning of the month.....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 11:00:46 am
Bit of a shocker this morning.  Picked up a Class B Avis car and they've added R400 to the deposit - refundable upon return less any e-Toll charges incurred.

I dont have a problem with Avis recovering charges - but what happens when the same car is used throughout the month by different drivers, and lets say they all use the highways so that the maximum toll is recovered (I think it's R450 per month).  By implication the drivers at the beginning of each month will get klapped and those driving at the end of the month should get their deposit back........or am i missing something?

If i'm right this is the last time I hire a car at the beginning of the month.....


IMO Avis are not opposed to this (I believe their first press release and dont really take their "correction seriously) and in fact seem to be trying to make money out of this - stuff them I wont use Avis again!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Parkinoff on December 03, 2013, 11:08:14 am
 Found this on my rental car this morning.  looking for tag but can't find it.  makes an irritating noise when I pass under gantry.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: elandsrider on December 03, 2013, 11:24:38 am
That will be the 1st knock on, every business will follow suit and add their e-tag on cost wether they use highway or not. Joe public will pay for it all.
I also beleive that the next step will be to recover unpaid toll fees when you renew your annual vehicle lisence!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 11:31:57 am
just walked past the etols in centurion mall, the que was around the corner... looks like there isn't much gees.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Xchallenge on December 03, 2013, 11:37:57 am
I agree 100%.

The biggest crime being committed at the moment is the Government trying to take away our human rights to move around freely without trying to make a buck out of it.

We pay our Taxes, we pay Fuel Levies, why should we fund their corruption even further than we have already, just by being honest Tax Paying Citizens?

They are all Crooks! ANC, SANRAL, KAPSCH, the lot!

F*** 'em!

Change is always traumatic...... there is always resistance to change , its the human way....

and this is severe change, its going to change our driving patterns, affect the social aspects of our lives, affect the business aspects of our lives....maybe less braais and kuiers and less leaving of the laager....

fact is whether you recognise this or not, the sanral/anc alliance are to deep in the hole to pull out of this now...... so these gantries aint going anywhere.....

so curl up in your corner with your security blankie, call everyone else names if that is how u deal with change but deal with it....this is the reality ..

lets fight real issues instead, crime , corruption ...or have you okes given up on that one as its too tough

Sellout  :thefinger:

E-tolls fall under crime and corruption in my book
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Triple Trompie on December 03, 2013, 11:46:57 am
Jirre, Icecreamman, kry jy ook n share uit die etoll inkomste?

Anyway, seen this on another forum -

Quote
well back roads only for me

 got stopped 3 times and asked where is my etag,told them not going to buy one,and was told that they will be increasing road blocks on back roads to force people back to the highways,they will take there time checking cars/trucks etc.

 all taxis were let through,even checked my number plate holder,tyres lights,everything,kept there for about half an hour.

 they told me going to be easier to buy etoll then i will have less hassel,so seems as law enforcement are working hand in hand with sanral,bastards

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 11:48:09 am
just walked past the etols in centurion mall, the que was around the corner... looks like there isn't much gees.

It amazing how powerful the "follow the herd instinct is" - very sad!

Most people admit they don't agree with this, but they are afraid of being outside the herd so any hint of being left behind just makes them scramble.

In a democracy you get the government you deserve!

Next time those guys whine about all the things the government did they didnt like, they should remember the voluntarily went and stood in that queue and signed the agreement.  
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RedRo on December 03, 2013, 11:48:23 am
Change is always traumatic...... there is always resistance to change , its the human way....

and this is severe change, its going to change our driving patterns, affect the social aspects of our lives, affect the business aspects of our lives....maybe less braais and kuiers and less leaving of the laager....

fact is whether you recognise this or not, the sanral/anc alliance are to deep in the hole to pull out of this now...... so these gantries aint going anywhere.....

so curl up in your corner with your security blankie, call everyone else names if that is how u deal with change but deal with it....this is the reality ..

lets fight real issues instead, crime , corruption ...or have you okes given up on that one as its too tough

So you see the e-toll go-live being free of corruption?

 :imaposer: you should pop down to Cape Town, I have a flat topped mountain selling for a song (Christmas special), just one snag, it is tied down with a big cable, but sure that can be sorted.

You gave in, trying to justify it by belittling the people not agreeing with it and willing to fight it says so much more about yourself than them.

Don't you have an e-tag to go test?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 11:55:32 am
Jirre, Icecreamman, kry jy ook n share uit die etoll inkomste?

Anyway, seen this on another forum -

Quote
well back roads only for me

 got stopped 3 times and asked where is my etag,told them not going to buy one,and was told that they will be increasing road blocks on back roads to force people back to the highways,they will take there time checking cars/trucks etc.

 all taxis were let through,even checked my number plate holder,tyres lights,everything,kept there for about half an hour.

 they told me going to be easier to buy etoll then i will have less hassel,so seems as law enforcement are working hand in hand with sanral,bastards



Are you sure that quote is accurate?

If so it sounds like extortion?

How can a police officer tell you which route you drive FFS?

Nor can they check that you have an etag?  On what basis can they check that you have an etag?

Sounds like some idiiot trying some B/S scare nonsense to me - similar those "gang initiation warning" emails that idiots seem to love sending round.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DRAZIL on December 03, 2013, 12:00:39 pm
just walked past the etols in centurion mall, the que was around the corner... looks like there isn't much gees.

where are the evangilistic shouting preachers at these sell points telling the masses that if they buy they will burn in one of Dantes levels in hell >:D
where's OUTA shouters...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 12:03:02 pm
a post on facebook  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

"So as many of you know I work for one of the largest car rental companies in S.A.
We have complied with E-Toll and fitted all of our rental vehicles with the tags.

This morning we have already had our first inquiry from SANRAL with regards to a vehicle.

The vehicle, which is a Hyundai i10 was stated to be higher than 4.3m when passing through one of the E-Toll's - upon looking into this we noticed that the vehicle had been written off 4 months ago and still not removed from their system as requested - Secondly the vehicle was on top of flat bed tow truck. Hahahaha

They have officially gone live, yet they cannot even get a simple thing like de-registering a vehicle and then actually seeing in the picture this car is on a tow truck never mind written off.

This is going to be interesting is all I can say..."
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Frog on December 03, 2013, 12:03:46 pm
Is the yellow emergency lane armed with camera's? It does not look so?
I drove down this lane under the gantry this morning. Will have to see if i get billed
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Triple Trompie on December 03, 2013, 12:14:56 pm
Jirre, Icecreamman, kry jy ook n share uit die etoll inkomste?

Anyway, seen this on another forum -

Quote
well back roads only for me

 got stopped 3 times and asked where is my etag,told them not going to buy one,and was told that they will be increasing road blocks on back roads to force people back to the highways,they will take there time checking cars/trucks etc.

 all taxis were let through,even checked my number plate holder,tyres lights,everything,kept there for about half an hour.

 they told me going to be easier to buy etoll then i will have less hassel,so seems as law enforcement are working hand in hand with sanral,bastards



Are you sure that quote is accurate?

If so it sounds like extortion?

How can a police officer tell you which route you drive FFS?

Nor can they check that you have an etag?  On what basis can they check that you have an etag?

Sounds like some idiiot trying some B/S scare nonsense to me - similar those "gang initiation warning" emails that idiots seem to love sending round.


I don't know the person personally, but he is a well respected member of the particular forum....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 03, 2013, 12:16:45 pm
there's no limit to how low these thugs will stoop  >:(
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 12:16:52 pm
Jirre, Icecreamman, kry jy ook n share uit die etoll inkomste?

Anyway, seen this on another forum -

Quote
well back roads only for me

 got stopped 3 times and asked where is my etag,told them not going to buy one,and was told that they will be increasing road blocks on back roads to force people back to the highways,they will take there time checking cars/trucks etc.

 all taxis were let through,even checked my number plate holder,tyres lights,everything,kept there for about half an hour.

 they told me going to be easier to buy etoll then i will have less hassel,so seems as law enforcement are working hand in hand with sanral,bastards



I doubt that is true, but if it is, people should all just stay at home, like a GFIP strike in Gauteng and let the employers sort govt out
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Veldbrand on December 03, 2013, 12:30:34 pm
Jirre, Icecreamman, kry jy ook n share uit die etoll inkomste?

Anyway, seen this on another forum -

Quote
well back roads only for me

got stopped 3 times and asked where is my etag,told them not going to buy one,and was told that they will be increasing road blocks on back roads to force people back to the highways,they will take there time checking cars/trucks etc.
 all taxis were let through,even checked my number plate holder,tyres lights,everything,kept there for about half an hour.

 they told me going to be easier to buy etoll then i will have less hassel,so seems as law enforcement are working hand in hand with sanral,bastards


That is straight up and down extorsion Don Zooma style.
People should now have their GoPro's mounted at all times to record such shit.
Down with the ANC mafia!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 12:33:07 pm
apprently the DA have a plane circling JHB toting the vote for DA if you dont want Etolls... politics!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 12:34:20 pm
just walked past the etols in centurion mall, the que was around the corner... looks like there isn't much gees.

It amazing how powerful the "follow the herd instinct is" - very sad!

Most people admit they don't agree with this, but they are afraid of being outside the herd so any hint of being left behind just makes them scramble.

In a democracy you get the government you deserve!

Next time those guys whine about all the things the government did they didnt like, they should remember the voluntarily went and stood in that queue and signed the agreement.  

and its evident right here on WD, actually right here on this here thread...... :imaposer:

one ou chirps something he heard from a friend of a friend and then everyone gets in a tizz wozz until some other ou talks about something else he heard......jeepers .
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 12:43:31 pm
just walked past the etols in centurion mall, the que was around the corner... looks like there isn't much gees.

It amazing how powerful the "follow the herd instinct is" - very sad!

Most people admit they don't agree with this, but they are afraid of being outside the herd so any hint of being left behind just makes them scramble.

In a democracy you get the government you deserve!

Next time those guys whine about all the things the government did they didnt like, they should remember the voluntarily went and stood in that queue and signed the agreement.  

and its evident right here on WD, actually right here on this here thread...... :imaposer:

one ou chirps something he heard from a friend of a friend and then everyone gets in a tizz wozz until some other ou talks about something else he heard......jeepers .

I was actually talking about people voluntarily going to the hassle of signing up for something most say they don't agree with just because they they suspect they will be in the majority.

So herding takes precedence over personal principles - in their case it seems.

Not quite the same thing.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 12:44:51 pm
just walked past the etols in centurion mall, the que was around the corner... looks like there isn't much gees.

It amazing how powerful the "follow the herd instinct is" - very sad!

Most people admit they don't agree with this, but they are afraid of being outside the herd so any hint of being left behind just makes them scramble.

In a democracy you get the government you deserve!

Next time those guys whine about all the things the government did they didnt like, they should remember the voluntarily went and stood in that queue and signed the agreement.  

and its evident right here on WD, actually right here on this here thread...... :imaposer:

one ou chirps something he heard from a friend of a friend and then everyone gets in a tizz wozz until some other ou talks about something else he heard......jeepers .

I was actually talking about people voluntarily going to the hassle of signing up for something most say they don't agree with just because they they suspect they will be in the majority.

So herding takes precedence over personal principles - in their case it seems.

Not quite the same thing.


and its evident right here on WD, actually right here on this here thread...... ImaPoser

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Lourens ツ on December 03, 2013, 12:50:54 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 12:52:11 pm
Jirre, Icecreamman, kry jy ook n share uit die etoll inkomste?

Anyway, seen this on another forum -

Quote
well back roads only for me

 got stopped 3 times and asked where is my etag,told them not going to buy one,and was told that they will be increasing road blocks on back roads to force people back to the highways,they will take there time checking cars/trucks etc.

 all taxis were let through,even checked my number plate holder,tyres lights,everything,kept there for about half an hour.

 they told me going to be easier to buy etoll then i will have less hassel,so seems as law enforcement are working hand in hand with sanral,bastards



Are you sure that quote is accurate?

If so it sounds like extortion?

How can a police officer tell you which route you drive FFS?

Nor can they check that you have an etag?  On what basis can they check that you have an etag?

Sounds like some idiiot trying some B/S scare nonsense to me - similar those "gang initiation warning" emails that idiots seem to love sending round.


I don't know the person personally, but he is a well respected member of the particular forum....

If its true then he may have a case against them.

By their own laws:
1) You don't need an etag
2) You have freedom of movement, so you may take any route you choose
3) Police officers stopping you and asking you for your etag - they have no need to know that - so if they are deliberately harassing, delaying you, singling you out etc  you on that basis - you have a case IMO.

OUTA offered to pay the legal fees of high profile test cases - he could esquire with them and see what they think.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 03, 2013, 12:54:15 pm
Quote
well back roads only for me

 got stopped 3 times and asked where is my etag,told them not going to buy one,and was told that they will be increasing road blocks on back roads to force people back to the highways,they will take there time checking cars/trucks etc.

 all taxis were let through,even checked my number plate holder,tyres lights,everything,kept there for about half an hour.

 they told me going to be easier to buy etoll then i will have less hassel,so seems as law enforcement are working hand in hand with sanral,bastards



ahem *bullshit*...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 03, 2013, 01:02:20 pm
OK so like I said previously the big plan is a kak plan and this is a sad day.
People are caving in by the thousands. Passive resistance will not work here!!
The system will soon catch up with everyone slowly but surely. Additional resources will be pumped in to no end where its needed. The departments including cops and traffic officials etc are ll starting the squeeze.
Soon minority vigilantes will be swept up and be made to pay big money. Probably after a few years but hey they got time and money pouring in so its well expected by the gov.

Now if one could get a few thousand bikes to grid lock the highway sometime soon that would be making a small statement.

But no, everyone is just riding and paying at the moment, those that aren't paying know that deep down this will catch up to them. At that stage it could cost a whole lot of money, years of stressing about it and in the end utter disappointment.

I said it from day one this will not be won by passive resistance!


The taxis had how many go slow protests and freeway blockages and had their people sit and talk (threaten) these guys, that's why they are exempt.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 03, 2013, 01:05:15 pm
Now if one could get a few thousand bikes to grid lock the highway sometime soon that would be making a small statement.

next time cosatu has a parade,  we all need to join in.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 03, 2013, 01:07:42 pm
Thats the problem, why wait for cosatu. Do it as bikers!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 03, 2013, 01:12:09 pm
Bikes should be exempt from tolls.

They don't damage the roads by wear and tear. they don't take up space etc etc etc.

Why the fuck must we pay??? We should pay a fraction of what cars pay if anything.

All the bike clubs gangs forums whatever you call them should get a collective voice and start their protest. All it takes is about 50 bikes to block the highway!
Work in shifts and do it everyday until someone listens to you. Harley club one week, wild dogs the next week, BMW club the next week, Mac's the next week etc

just a thought!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 01:12:55 pm
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=140045.msg2687000#msg2687000 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=140045.msg2687000#msg2687000)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on December 03, 2013, 01:14:52 pm
Bikes should be exempt from tolls.

They don't damage the roads by wear and tear. they don't take up space etc etc etc.

Why the fuck must we pay??? We should pay a fraction of what cars pay if anything.

All the bike clubs gangs forums whatever you call them should get a collective voice and start their protest. All it takes is about 50 bikes to block the highway!
Work in shifts and do it everyday until someone listens to you. Harley club one week, wild dogs the next week, BMW club the next week, Mac's the next week etc

just a thought!
+1
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 01:16:42 pm
OK so like I said previously the big plan is a kak plan and this is a sad day.
People are caving in by the thousands. Passive resistance will not work here!!
The system will soon catch up with everyone slowly but surely. Additional resources will be pumped in to no end where its needed. The departments including cops and traffic officials etc are ll starting the squeeze.
Soon minority vigilantes will be swept up and be made to pay big money. Probably after a few years but hey they got time and money pouring in so its well expected by the gov.

Now if one could get a few thousand bikes to grid lock the highway sometime soon that would be making a small statement.

But no, everyone is just riding and paying at the moment, those that aren't paying know that deep down this will catch up to them. At that stage it could cost a whole lot of money, years of stressing about it and in the end utter disappointment.

I said it from day one this will not be won by passive resistance!


The taxis had how many go slow protests and freeway blockages and had their people sit and talk (threaten) these guys, that's why they are exempt.


Yes we heard you!

Buts its day one - the battle hasn't properly started and you have already given up!  In fact you gave up before then!

Not much use....

You have already assumed resistance has failed based on what?  Your own fear that it will?

And shouting down all resistance and telling people its hopeless  all the time is helpful how? >:(

The real battle at the moment is hearts and minds - so far its going OK IMO. But everytime you shout its hopeless - well thats like giving the other side a few more points - nice going!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 01:22:05 pm
Bikes should be exempt from tolls.

They don't damage the roads by wear and tear. they don't take up space etc etc etc.

Why the fuck must we pay??? We should pay a fraction of what cars pay if anything.

All the bike clubs gangs forums whatever you call them should get a collective voice and start their protest. All it takes is about 50 bikes to block the highway!
Work in shifts and do it everyday until someone listens to you. Harley club one week, wild dogs the next week, BMW club the next week, Mac's the next week etc

just a thought!

sorry to disagree - but this is not about looking after yourself and naaing your maatjie.  Its morally and legally wrong.  We want no etolls.

Sommer after we win this battle, keep the momentum and close down existing toll roads too.  There is corruption and racketeering behind ALL of these tolls.  Old Mutual must be kakking themselves - there funds sit behind many of these tollroads.  lets uncover and stop the whole farking lot.  Its locusts sucking us dry - 'legally so' 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 03, 2013, 01:24:47 pm
Stop playing the victim here!
HTFU
I am telling you what is happening and what will happen! I am being realistic! I am not shouting you down or trying to break your moral etc This battle is being lost! The news report just said they are a few glitches but its running like smooth butter everyone is driving, tags are being sold and hooray the bubbly is flowing in gov.

You need to understand that as soon as its implemented and gets going in the slightest you have lost this!

To be honest i though there would be some vandalism on day one but nothing absolutely nothing. the gov pushed and have started the forward march. it will be near impossible to stop the march now. Sorry but this is just the facts. i cant believe that this third world country just woke up and accepted this. i hear what you say you haven't given up etc but read above.. round one to the gov by a long shot. Triple knock out in the first round! Its hard to come back from that.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 03, 2013, 01:26:22 pm
Busy morning here in Midrand, COC SANRAL
The minister of transport (Dipoa I think) was here and many other VIP's
We had to park our vehicles and other stations coverd our area so that the media could see the emergency vehicles and other services offered by SANRAL with regrds to road service.

Driving in the emergency lane on either side unfortunately doesn't work, nou way around the gate other than avoiding it at all.

If you sell a car or if it is written of it is your responsibility to remove the tag. The tag is linked to a specific car and owner. Once it's written off you should rather if possible remove the tag and go to a service centre in person and disable or allocate to another vehicle. Simple straight forward if you go in and do it in person. I do not trust the 'phone in transactions'. E mail is also affective, you will get a 'reply confirmation' e mail.

If SANRAL maintain the roads like they currently do and keep the cost low (like the 'special opening prices') it shoul work and the Country can upgrade the whole road system. I overheard many conversations here in favour of SANRAL. In 2008 the R21 and many other roads were only 2 lanes. Now it is even up to 5 lanes with added safety like lights, cameras and ems services.

What is road safety worth? Have you ever been involved in a bad accident or broke rims or mags in potholes?

I still don't like the idea too much because it is hurting my pocket as well, 2 x gates a day and petrol is going up again. But I have been here and heard the arguments in defence'. One thing is clear, not all is bad.

To buy a tag still is not compulsory, but it will make live easier in the end it seems and this; 'you have signed an agreement with them' is a stupid argument. You are under no obligation to top up after you have registered. If your prepaid account runs dry you will just get billed on your number plates like the other who never registered. I will wait it out a bit and see, as long as you pay your bill within 7 days it wount cost you more. You can cancell an account at any time as well. I have asked, they are gatvol for all my questions already :)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 03, 2013, 01:26:52 pm
Bikes should be exempt from tolls.

They don't damage the roads by wear and tear. they don't take up space etc etc etc.

Why the fuck must we pay??? We should pay a fraction of what cars pay if anything.

All the bike clubs gangs forums whatever you call them should get a collective voice and start their protest. All it takes is about 50 bikes to block the highway!
Work in shifts and do it everyday until someone listens to you. Harley club one week, wild dogs the next week, BMW club the next week, Mac's the next week etc

just a thought!

sorry to disagree - but this is not about looking after yourself and naaing your maatjie.  Its morally and legally wrong.  We want no etolls.

Sommer after we win this battle, keep the momentum and close down existing toll roads too.  There is corruption and racketeering behind ALL of these tolls.  Old Mutual must be kakking themselves - there funds sit behind many of these tollroads.  lets uncover and stop the whole farking lot.  Its locusts sucking us dry - 'legally so' 

Ya you see we cant even get one group (bikers) to get their ass in gear and make a stand. If we had more groups you could combine. At the moment there is no resistance other than a few unions etc. How do you eat an elephant
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 01:34:24 pm
Stop playing the victim here!
HTFU
I am telling you what is happening and what will happen! I am being realistic! I am not shouting you down or trying to break your moral etc This battle is being lost! The news report just said they are a few glitches but its running like smooth butter everyone is driving, tags are being sold and hooray the bubbly is flowing in gov.

You need to understand that as soon as its implemented and gets going in the slightest you have lost this!

To be honest i though there would be some vandalism on day one but nothing absolutely nothing. the gov pushed and have started the forward march. it will be near impossible to stop the march now. Sorry but this is just the facts. i cant believe that this third world country just woke up and accepted this. i hear what you say you haven't given up etc but read above.. round one to the gov by a long shot. Triple knock out in the first round! Its hard to come back from that.

Rest assure Go Big, the battle is far from over.  in Portugal and other countries it took a while after implementation for people to rise up and kill it.

But I agree - more active defiance will be good :thumleft: 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 01:36:22 pm
Bikes should be exempt from tolls.

They don't damage the roads by wear and tear. they don't take up space etc etc etc.

Why the fuck must we pay??? We should pay a fraction of what cars pay if anything.

All the bike clubs gangs forums whatever you call them should get a collective voice and start their protest. All it takes is about 50 bikes to block the highway!
Work in shifts and do it everyday until someone listens to you. Harley club one week, wild dogs the next week, BMW club the next week, Mac's the next week etc

just a thought!

sorry to disagree - but this is not about looking after yourself and naaing your maatjie.  Its morally and legally wrong.  We want no etolls.

Sommer after we win this battle, keep the momentum and close down existing toll roads too.  There is corruption and racketeering behind ALL of these tolls.  Old Mutual must be kakking themselves - there funds sit behind many of these tollroads.  lets uncover and stop the whole farking lot.  Its locusts sucking us dry - 'legally so'  

Ya you see we cant even get one group (bikers) to get their ass in gear and make a stand. If we had more groups you could combine. At the moment there is no resistance other than a few unions etc. How do you eat an elephant
nice glad to see another side of the story. i think 99% of us that havent got a tag will wait and see and react at the last minute.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 01:36:59 pm
Busy morning here in Midrand, COC SANRAL
The minister of transport (Dipoa I think) was here and many other VIP's
We had to park our vehicles and other stations coverd our area so that the media could see the emergency vehicles and other services offered by SANRAL with regrds to road service.

Driving in the emergency lane on either side unfortunately doesn't work, nou way around the gate other than avoiding it at all.

If you sell a car or if it is written of it is your responsibility to remove the tag. The tag is linked to a specific car and owner. Once it's written off you should rather if possible remove the tag and go to a service centre in person and disable or allocate to another vehicle. Simple straight forward if you go in and do it in person. I do not trust the 'phone in transactions'. E mail is also affective, you will get a 'reply confirmation' e mail.

If SANRAL maintain the roads like they currently do and keep the cost low (like the 'special opening prices') it shoul work and the Country can upgrade the whole road system. I overheard many conversations here in favour of SANRAL. In 2008 the R21 and many other roads were only 2 lanes. Now it is even up to 5 lanes with added safety like lights, cameras and ems services.

What is road safety worth? Have you ever been involved in a bad accident or broke rims or mags in potholes?

I still don't like the idea too much because it is hurting my pocket as well, 2 x gates a day and petrol is going up again. But I have been here and heard the arguments in defence'. One thing is clear, not all is bad.

To buy a tag still is not compulsory, but it will make live easier in the end it seems and this; 'you have signed an agreement with them' is a stupid argument. You are under no obligation to top up after you have registered. If your prepaid account runs dry you will just get billed on your number plates like the other who never registered. I will wait it out a bit and see, as long as you pay your bill within 7 days it wount cost you more. You can cancell an account at any time as well. I have asked, they are gatvol for all my questions already :)

the new roads and services are not the problem, we all agree that's good and long overdue

The ineffective funding is the problem and has to have been chosen for corrupt reasons
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 01:37:52 pm
Stop playing the victim here!
HTFU
I am telling you what is happening and what will happen! I am being realistic! I am not shouting you down or trying to break your moral etc This battle is being lost! The news report just said they are a few glitches but its running like smooth butter everyone is driving, tags are being sold and hooray the bubbly is flowing in gov.

You need to understand that as soon as its implemented and gets going in the slightest you have lost this!

To be honest i though there would be some vandalism on day one but nothing absolutely nothing. the gov pushed and have started the forward march. it will be near impossible to stop the march now. Sorry but this is just the facts. i cant believe that this third world country just woke up and accepted this. i hear what you say you haven't given up etc but read above.. round one to the gov by a long shot. Triple knock out in the first round! Its hard to come back from that.

You just keep talking your self out of it IMO.  ::)

Way to early to tell if they are going to be able to cope with the non-etagged road users - but you have already assumed that, based on what?  

Plenty of time for demo's etc later.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Chukudeer on December 03, 2013, 01:44:28 pm
I think this will go very much like the AARTO fines. 32% of people fall for the "50% discount" and the intimidation at the roadblocks. This is sufficient for JMPD to make big money. They don't bother to follow procedures with these fines and in very, very few cases follow up on outstanding fines as this is costly.

So the 32% that pay subsidises those that dump the fines in the dustbin.

Same will happen with e-tolls. the 40% that purchased tags will bring in sufficient funds to keep the fat cats happy, you have people like ICM that will happily pay and pay and pay..... because it is the right thing to do. Good for you ICM and thank you for keeping the system off my back  :thumleft:

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 01:50:09 pm
Busy morning here in Midrand, COC SANRAL
The minister of transport (Dipoa I think) was here and many other VIP's
We had to park our vehicles and other stations coverd our area so that the media could see the emergency vehicles and other services offered by SANRAL with regrds to road service.

Driving in the emergency lane on either side unfortunately doesn't work, nou way around the gate other than avoiding it at all.

If you sell a car or if it is written of it is your responsibility to remove the tag. The tag is linked to a specific car and owner. Once it's written off you should rather if possible remove the tag and go to a service centre in person and disable or allocate to another vehicle. Simple straight forward if you go in and do it in person. I do not trust the 'phone in transactions'. E mail is also affective, you will get a 'reply confirmation' e mail.

If SANRAL maintain the roads like they currently do and keep the cost low (like the 'special opening prices') it shoul work and the Country can upgrade the whole road system. I overheard many conversations here in favour of SANRAL. In 2008 the R21 and many other roads were only 2 lanes. Now it is even up to 5 lanes with added safety like lights, cameras and ems services.

What is road safety worth? Have you ever been involved in a bad accident or broke rims or mags in potholes?

I still don't like the idea too much because it is hurting my pocket as well, 2 x gates a day and petrol is going up again. But I have been here and heard the arguments in defence'. One thing is clear, not all is bad.

To buy a tag still is not compulsory, but it will make live easier in the end it seems and this; 'you have signed an agreement with them' is a stupid argument. You are under no obligation to top up after you have registered. If your prepaid account runs dry you will just get billed on your number plates like the other who never registered. I will wait it out a bit and see, as long as you pay your bill within 7 days it wount cost you more. You can cancell an account at any time as well. I have asked, they are gatvol for all my questions already :)

Thanks for the feedback.  :thumleft:  Nice to get an inside perspective.

My question is how is all this different from what any taxpayer should expect from their local authorities?

Why do we need an additional tax for this?

Whats happening to the money we pay in normal taxes?

Why is it impossible to deliver this service using the fuel levy which will cost me (and everyone else less) but they will collect the same amounts?

Where is the collection fee going - who are the shareholders and directors of all the entities in the gravy chain?

Why send money off shore. Who is going to be the real recipients of that?

Why not just eliminate the R30bn in wasteful, corrupt and fruitless etc spending that their own report admitted is what the government wastes each year - that would pay for this easily!

etc etc etc

Its not about getting good services - we should get those anyway!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 01:54:55 pm
Allan - plse dont spoil the spineless' argument with facts :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 03, 2013, 02:03:14 pm
Busy morning here in Midrand, COC SANRAL
The minister of transport (Dipoa I think) was here and many other VIP's
We had to park our vehicles and other stations coverd our area so that the media could see the emergency vehicles and other services offered by SANRAL with regrds to road service.

Driving in the emergency lane on either side unfortunately doesn't work, nou way around the gate other than avoiding it at all.

If you sell a car or if it is written of it is your responsibility to remove the tag. The tag is linked to a specific car and owner. Once it's written off you should rather if possible remove the tag and go to a service centre in person and disable or allocate to another vehicle. Simple straight forward if you go in and do it in person. I do not trust the 'phone in transactions'. E mail is also affective, you will get a 'reply confirmation' e mail.

If SANRAL maintain the roads like they currently do and keep the cost low (like the 'special opening prices') it shoul work and the Country can upgrade the whole road system. I overheard many conversations here in favour of SANRAL. In 2008 the R21 and many other roads were only 2 lanes. Now it is even up to 5 lanes with added safety like lights, cameras and ems services.

What is road safety worth? Have you ever been involved in a bad accident or broke rims or mags in potholes?

I still don't like the idea too much because it is hurting my pocket as well, 2 x gates a day and petrol is going up again. But I have been here and heard the arguments in defence'. One thing is clear, not all is bad.

To buy a tag still is not compulsory, but it will make live easier in the end it seems and this; 'you have signed an agreement with them' is a stupid argument. You are under no obligation to top up after you have registered. If your prepaid account runs dry you will just get billed on your number plates like the other who never registered. I will wait it out a bit and see, as long as you pay your bill within 7 days it wount cost you more. You can cancell an account at any time as well. I have asked, they are gatvol for all my questions already :)

Thanks for the feedback.  :thumleft:  Nice to get an inside perspective.

My question is how is all this different from what any taxpayer should expect from their local authorities?

Why do we need an additional tax for this?

Whats happening to the money we pay in normal taxes?

Why is it impossible to deliver this service using the fuel levy which will cost me (and everyone else less) but they will collect the same amounts?

Where is the collection fee going - who are the shareholders and directors of all the entities in the gravy chain?

Why send money off shore. Who is going to be the real recipients of that?

Why not just eliminate the R30bn in wasteful, corrupt and fruitless etc spending that their own report admitted is what the government wastes each year - that would pay for this easily!

etc etc etc

Its not about getting good services - we should get those anyway!


I agre 100 persent Alan, but you see we are rated as a third world Country. However, once something happens in Europe (like the smokers law) we were the first so called 3rd world Country to enforce the law. That made me to quit smoking - lol. In Europe once again they got the example from this e-toll system. Roads are one of the most expensive items in a Counties infrastructure development. So they came. With this idea like the Bakwena road where a Dutch company sponsored it and 20 years profits were pumped into their account. It is basically a private business. SANRAL not too much different here but to me the big plus is the gates (ore you Englis okes uses 'gantries') which will not break your speed. If I have to pay and I have a choice between a manual operated gate or a overhead automated system I rather opt for the last not true? Wheather we like it or not, it is here to stay and it will spread through SA like cancer - good or bad.....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 02:13:49 pm
Quote
I agre 100 persent Alan, but you see we are rated as a third world Country. However, once something happens in Europe (like the smokers law) we were the first so called 3rd world Country to enforce the law. That made me to quit smoking - lol. In Europe once again they got the example from this e-toll system. Roads are one of the most expensive items in a Counties infrastructure development. So they came. With this idea like the Bakwena road where a Dutch company sponsored it and 20 years profits were pumped into their account. It is basically a private business. SANRAL not too much different here but to me the big plus is the gates (ore you Englis okes uses 'gantries') which will not break your speed. If I have to pay and I have a choice between a manual operated gate or a overhead automated system I rather opt for the last not true? Wheather we like it or not, it is here to stay and it will spread through SA like cancer - good or bad.....

The nice thing about self fulfilling prophecy is that its as powerful as you want it to be  :biggrin:

The thing a lot of people are just not realising is that THEY have to make it happen, not the government.  If they simply don't go along, the system fails - that's the truth. 

And its failed for that very reason in many countries around the world.  It can fail here too.  Unless we really don't want it to.

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65216 (http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65216)

http://tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-16Jul13-Australia-PPP-toll-tunnel-crisis.php (http://tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-16Jul13-Australia-PPP-toll-tunnel-crisis.php)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7971689/Toll-relief-road-has-failed-report-claims.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7971689/Toll-relief-road-has-failed-report-claims.html)

https://theconversation.com/as-another-toll-road-bites-the-dust-what-is-the-future-for-ppps-12386 (https://theconversation.com/as-another-toll-road-bites-the-dust-what-is-the-future-for-ppps-12386)

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea/ (http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea/)


Its really painful, and a bit strange, watching people fight with themselves over this.

All you need to do is decide.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:50:54 pm
Quote
I agre 100 persent Alan, but you see we are rated as a third world Country. However, once something happens in Europe (like the smokers law) we were the first so called 3rd world Country to enforce the law. That made me to quit smoking - lol. In Europe once again they got the example from this e-toll system. Roads are one of the most expensive items in a Counties infrastructure development. So they came. With this idea like the Bakwena road where a Dutch company sponsored it and 20 years profits were pumped into their account. It is basically a private business. SANRAL not too much different here but to me the big plus is the gates (ore you Englis okes uses 'gantries') which will not break your speed. If I have to pay and I have a choice between a manual operated gate or a overhead automated system I rather opt for the last not true? Wheather we like it or not, it is here to stay and it will spread through SA like cancer - good or bad.....

The nice thing about self fulfilling prophecy is that its as powerful as you want it to be  :biggrin:

The thing a lot of people are just not realising is that THEY have to make it happen, not the government.  If they simply don't go along, the system fails - that's the truth. 

And its failed for that very reason in many countries around the world.  It can fail here too.  Unless we really don't want it to.

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65216 (http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65216)

http://tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-16Jul13-Australia-PPP-toll-tunnel-crisis.php (http://tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-16Jul13-Australia-PPP-toll-tunnel-crisis.php)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7971689/Toll-relief-road-has-failed-report-claims.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7971689/Toll-relief-road-has-failed-report-claims.html)

https://theconversation.com/as-another-toll-road-bites-the-dust-what-is-the-future-for-ppps-12386 (https://theconversation.com/as-another-toll-road-bites-the-dust-what-is-the-future-for-ppps-12386)

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea/ (http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea/)


Its really painful, and a bit strange, watching people fight with themselves over this.

All you need to do is decide.

the real differences is that politicains tumble and parties lose power when implementing unpopular policies, see the poll tax in the UK..... in ZA it makes no difference cos the middle class the ones paying the tolls in this case do not sway the vote .....

unless Jesus returns in april 2014 the ANC will be voted into power yet again ...by the masses who don't even have a car ...and cant see the link between a haigher bread price and the e tolls in Gauteng...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on December 03, 2013, 02:51:47 pm
the real differences is that politicains tumble and parties lose power when implementing unpopular policies, see the poll tax in the UK..... in ZA it makes no difference cos the middle class the ones paying the tolls in this case do not sway the vote .....

unless Jesus returns in april 2014 the ANC will be voted into power yet again ...by the masses who don't even have a car ...and cant see the link between a haigher bread price and the e tolls in Gauteng...

Very true
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 02:54:29 pm
Quote
I agre 100 persent Alan, but you see we are rated as a third world Country. However, once something happens in Europe (like the smokers law) we were the first so called 3rd world Country to enforce the law. That made me to quit smoking - lol. In Europe once again they got the example from this e-toll system. Roads are one of the most expensive items in a Counties infrastructure development. So they came. With this idea like the Bakwena road where a Dutch company sponsored it and 20 years profits were pumped into their account. It is basically a private business. SANRAL not too much different here but to me the big plus is the gates (ore you Englis okes uses 'gantries') which will not break your speed. If I have to pay and I have a choice between a manual operated gate or a overhead automated system I rather opt for the last not true? Wheather we like it or not, it is here to stay and it will spread through SA like cancer - good or bad.....

The nice thing about self fulfilling prophecy is that its as powerful as you want it to be  :biggrin:

The thing a lot of people are just not realising is that THEY have to make it happen, not the government.  If they simply don't go along, the system fails - that's the truth. 

And its failed for that very reason in many countries around the world.  It can fail here too.  Unless we really don't want it to.

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65216 (http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65216)

http://tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-16Jul13-Australia-PPP-toll-tunnel-crisis.php (http://tunneltalk.com/Discussion-Forum-16Jul13-Australia-PPP-toll-tunnel-crisis.php)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7971689/Toll-relief-road-has-failed-report-claims.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/7971689/Toll-relief-road-has-failed-report-claims.html)

https://theconversation.com/as-another-toll-road-bites-the-dust-what-is-the-future-for-ppps-12386 (https://theconversation.com/as-another-toll-road-bites-the-dust-what-is-the-future-for-ppps-12386)

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea/ (http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2013/01/19/are-private-toll-roads-a-losing-idea/)


Its really painful, and a bit strange, watching people fight with themselves over this.

All you need to do is decide.

the real differences is that politicains tumble and parties lose power when implementing unpopular policies, see the poll tax in the UK..... in ZA it makes no difference cos the middle class the ones paying the tolls in this case do not sway the vote .....

unless Jesus returns in april 2014 the ANC will be voted into power yet again ...by the masses who don't even have a car ...and cant see the link between a haigher bread price and the e tolls in Gauteng...

Maybe, but the chances are very good the ANC will not get elected in Gauteng - even if I do vote COPE :laughing4:  Losing control of the heartland.... :ricky:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 03, 2013, 02:56:25 pm
Maybe, but the chances are very good the ANC will not get elected in Gauteng - even if I do vote COPE :laughing4:  Losing control of the heartland.... :ricky:
They will then wish Jesus had returned... :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 03:04:13 pm
the real differences is that politicains tumble and parties lose power when implementing unpopular policies, see the poll tax in the UK..... in ZA it makes no difference cos the middle class the ones paying the tolls in this case do not sway the vote .....

unless Jesus returns in april 2014 the ANC will be voted into power yet again ...by the masses who don't even have a car ...and cant see the link between a haigher bread price and the e tolls in Gauteng...

Very true

Like I said self fulfilling prophecy...its as powerful as you want it to be!

In any event, you don't need to vote to stop this - just don't pay, or at least make it bloody difficult for them to collect the money - that on its own should be enough.

Its your money they want, not your vote. 

We need to realise money is far more powerful than votes FWIW. 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 03, 2013, 03:49:27 pm
Madiba's PA:

Quote
Zelda la Grange (@ZeldalaGrangeSA), former secretary to Nelson Mandela, tweeted that the e-toll system was not comparable to traffic fines.

"Cant compare traffic fines to etolls. Traffic fine: u committed an offence. Etoll: u pay because the money was used for corruption elsewhere."
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 03:58:54 pm
the ANC official facebook page with 43 000+ members shows some interesting opinions

http://www.facebook.com/african.national.congress (http://www.facebook.com/african.national.congress)

"Rhulani Stephan Meet you at the polls next year. Uv just lost votes to the DA
Like · Reply · 5 · 2 hours ago

Mpho Mohale The ANC even comment on it, just to show us ( the voters) that they don't care. They (ANC Leadership) are the ones who introduced this. I thought it was a government program and it would make good if the ANC never commented on it. Comrades you are goi...See More
Like · Reply · 5 · 2 hours ago

Gavin Von Meyer You still got the guts to advertise it!!! What an own goal you just scored, where 1-nul, equals 1 million votes, you just scored 10 own goals, believe it, or not.
Like · Reply · 4 · about an hour ago

Thapelo Mohlabi That freeway has bin there ever since, all u thugs did ws to add only two lanes, and u lied & told us its part of "2010 world cup infrastructure improvement plan" ... Now u want'o milk the poor masses dry. Its high tym people stand against u bullies
Like · Reply · 2 · about an hour ago

Thabang Nkwaired Shozi ANC RULES.....MY ANC MY KHONGOLOSE....no matter what I'll stand by you....AMANDLA
Like · Reply · 2 · about an hour ago

Lerato Lilo Vilakazi This is going to take away the youth votes for the ANC, this gives me every good reason to vote for EFF or Patriotic Alliance next elections.
Like · Reply · 2 · about an hour ago

Carol Zion Zandamela ANC has become a party for the rich not the people.
Like · Reply · 3 · about an hour ago via mobile

Sifiso Uba-Ultra Mathebula Dis suddens me dat for de 1st time since - was allowed 2 vote, I won't vote fo Anc n hope ma Grandparents n all does dat fought hard for dis struggle won't turn on dea graves! Anc u have failed us as de people who have supported n struggled with yoll! We have neva complained @ all and fo de 1st time in 20yrs u will have lost Gauteng! De masses r Angry n dey feel betrayed n held for a ransum!
Like · Reply · 3 · about an hour ago

Justice Pheello Mphanya This is not the government for the people,its for a sellected few.
Like · Reply · 3 · about an hour ago

Bobb's Mabuza Viva ANC viva asambeni macommanies sovotela iANC better life 4 ol neh kunjalo
Like · Reply · 3 · about an hour ago

Joe Mabulane Yet u expect us to vote for ANC?no 1 in his sober mind can vote for a party tht implement e tolls whilst majority citizens are agaunt it.**** ANC & thier bid headed president
Like · Reply · 3 · about an hour ago via mobile

Bhekithemba Vellem one of the clear,disrespectful corrution in da history of ANC.shame to ZumaANC
Like · Reply · 3 · 2 hours ago

Lebohang Matlala lanyaa lona le president ya lona ya dom kop, sies
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hours ago

Zintle Mtolo Oh so the **** you comment was removed? Lol too late I munched it already, going to tag city press editor
Like · Reply · 3 · 2 hours ago
8 Replies · 14 minutes ago

Yolanda Yhayha Qongqo Well, consider yourselves out of Gauteng's parliament after 2014 elections.
Like · Reply · 3 · 2 hours ago

Rhulani Andricks There's no way I'm voting for this bull**** anc
Like · Reply · 3 · 2 hours ago

Simbongile Chris Mhlekwa Chris Safa thina simpofu yinkandla Road etolling..**** Anc
Like · Reply · 1 · about an hour ago

Ntethelelo Mvelo Manzezulu Ndlovu E-toll proudly brought to you by Nkandla/Gupta government
Like · Reply · 1 · 28 minutes ago

Tlali Joseph D Joseph I think even My futer President wil do better viva EFF viva
Like · Reply · 1 · 54 minutes ago

Karabo Morudu EFF it is!
Like · Reply · 2 · 59 minutes ago

Floyd Shabangu People in Gauteng dont mind paying R2 for using a public toilet but dont wanna pay for etolls. It is the media which serves the DA which is busy with negetive publicity around etolls.
Like · Reply · 1 · about an hour ago · Edited

Clearly Tlalas Kgatla 1nce again the ANC is stealing from the people makin us pay f0r their debts n'fraud Anc takin advntage of the power thy has as government the poor keep getn poor n'd'1s takn illegaly r stil in power you should be ashamed
Like · Reply · 2 · about an hour ago

Seripa Bethuel Maupye We're voting 4 ambherete next year, etolls wil vote 4 ANC...
Like · Reply · 2 · about an hour ago

Zak Khoza angvamisile ukuthuka inhlamba but nisijwayela ama toilet ase western cape guys........how do people who dont even pay etolls, the zumas and co choose for us a system that we must pay. kahle kahle nidakwa umbuso...
Like · Reply · 1 · about an hour ago

Vin-lee Marv Lol u have a funny way, of saying u don't want our votes anymore. U won't even enjoy the profits, course I don't think u'll be the rulling party next year.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hours ago · Edited

Sbosh Bongi Nyivana Velelo kukunya oku nisixelela kona to Hell with ANC yamasimba
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hours ago

Aaron Mrabalala If any one votes for ANC ever again or ever support ZUMA they need to be shot! Why dont you toll ur President prvt road.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hours ago

Yanga Maweza The ANC has failed us. Theyve turned their backs on us. Zuma and his ministers are just enriching themselves. They havent explained the R215m in question yet theyre forcing us to pay more, sucking the last cent out of us taxpayers. The ANC is just an animal farm, all animals are equal, but some animals more equal than others. Wish they lose in the next election. Batsho ngezisu ezikhulu.
Like · Reply · 2 · 2 hours ago

Thabelo Maraka Rubbish
Like · Reply · 2 hours ago

Goolam Dawood Kapsch
Like · Reply · 9 minutes ago

Ghaan Lesufi with this evil-tolls
you are saying to the masses that you dont need the're dirty rubbish VOTES
U can even c here dat derys no anc membrs comenting
Like · Reply · 1 · 23 minutes ago

Franklin Jooste Do u even own a car John siyabonga ****
Like · Reply · 1 · 27 minutes ago

Mari Anne I regret voting ANC. They have betrayed me and my fellow South Africans. Betrayed.
Like · Reply · 1 · 33 minutes ago

Molopeng James Spilo Mashiane I won't vote for Anc anymore
Like · Reply · 1 · 38 minutes ago

Jeffrey Nkogatse very stupid of you...bt ppl's Xs will play a role next year
Like · Reply · 1 · 41 minutes ago

Muji Saaj Padia rubbish!why should we pay for our roads?civil disobedience.do not buy e-tags!
Like · Reply · 1 · 58 minutes ago

Dumi Mgoza my beautifull sister the apartheit gov built the n1 free way,we travelled 4 free.the thiefs gov make us pay and they call it democracy,freedom.next year we must all rsa citizens go out and vote,not 4 thieves "
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 03, 2013, 04:00:45 pm
Die mense is kwaad... :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 03, 2013, 04:04:39 pm
Die mense is kwaad... :sip:

but seem illiterate. or is the brave new BBM/whatzap world?

pity us all
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 04:11:14 pm
Die mense is kwaad... :sip:

but seem illiterate. or is the brave new BBM/whatzap world?

pity us all

possibly and most of them probably have highly paid jobs in govt
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 03, 2013, 04:11:52 pm
Road users seemed a little worked up on the roads this afternoon to say the least
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 04:32:54 pm
I see Cosatu have come up with an "unsheeping" procedure


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 05:12:58 pm
I see Cosatu have come up with an "unsheeping" procedure




an unsheeping procedure from Cosatu , am I the only one who says the irony in this  :pot:  fuck must be one of the funniest posts of the year, albeit unintentionally

nee meneer, the entertainer is thee ... :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 05:17:08 pm
I see Cosatu have come up with an "unsheeping" procedure




an unsheeping procedure from Cosatu , am I the only one who says the irony in this  :pot:  fuck must be one of the funniest posts of the year, albeit unintentionally

nee meneer, the entertainer is thee ... :laughing4:

says the man that was hiding behind a woman to motivate his e-tagging sheepishness  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RedRo on December 03, 2013, 05:19:37 pm
I see Cosatu have come up with an "unsheeping" procedure




an unsheeping procedure from Cosatu , am I the only one who says the irony in this  :pot:  fuck must be one of the funniest posts of the year, albeit unintentionally

nee meneer, the entertainer is thee ... :laughing4:

says the man that was hiding behind a woman to motivate his e-tagging sheepishness  :lol8:

They can maybe unsheep them, but can they give them their balls back?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 05:21:19 pm
I see Cosatu have come up with an "unsheeping" procedure




an unsheeping procedure from Cosatu , am I the only one who says the irony in this  :pot:  fuck must be one of the funniest posts of the year, albeit unintentionally

nee meneer, the entertainer is thee ... :laughing4:

says the man that was hiding behind a woman to motivate his e-tagging sheepishness  :lol8:

They can maybe unsheep them, but can they give them their balls back?

sanral not go0t those hey ...my wife keeps those
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 05:22:16 pm
I see some companies have issued their staff with e-tags...

Does anybody know if that will be seen as a taxable benefit?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RedRo on December 03, 2013, 05:22:43 pm
I see Cosatu have come up with an "unsheeping" procedure




an unsheeping procedure from Cosatu , am I the only one who says the irony in this  :pot:  fuck must be one of the funniest posts of the year, albeit unintentionally

nee meneer, the entertainer is thee ... :laughing4:

says the man that was hiding behind a woman to motivate his e-tagging sheepishness  :lol8:

They can maybe unsheep them, but can they give them their balls back?

sanral not go0t those hey ...my wife keeps those

Explains a lot then  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on December 03, 2013, 05:24:30 pm
Well my 4 rond what what middle finger was taken, I will wait for the bill within 7 days along with every other one that I will put into effect, then I will simply ignore them. I need rolled up paper for my Swannie Braai as I dont buy newspapers these days  :thumleft: free fuel !  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Frog on December 03, 2013, 06:10:37 pm
I drove under 2 gantries today. Just checked via e toll website and it says 3 entries???
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on December 03, 2013, 06:16:00 pm
I drove under 2 gantries today. Just checked via e toll website and it says 3 entries???
how do you check if you have not registered ? Not a dig at you just want to know my status.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: GRIM on December 03, 2013, 06:53:25 pm
I drove under 2 gantries today. Just checked via e toll website and it says 3 entries???
how do you check if you have not registered ? Not a dig at you just want to know my status.

https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx)

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 07:16:37 pm
I drove under 2 gantries today. Just checked via e toll website and it says 3 entries???

the arse raping has started!

The tagged "guys" will sit back and cherish it
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 07:25:24 pm
 :biggrin: ICM comes to mind...  :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 03, 2013, 07:28:56 pm
I drove under 2 gantries today. Just checked via e toll website and it says 3 entries???

the arse raping has started!

The tagged "guys" will sit back and cherish it

they could also get billed extra, especially if you cloned their plates  >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 07:36:27 pm
:biggrin: ICM comes to mind...  :pot:

nah, I think his wife will protect him
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on December 03, 2013, 07:38:24 pm
May i suggest something?

Why not have a vinyl cutout made & change one or two numbers on your plate?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 07:43:30 pm
:biggrin: ICM comes to mind...  :pot:

nah, I think his wife will protect him
:imaposer: :imaposer: wont keep him quiet though...  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 03, 2013, 07:47:12 pm
May i suggest something?

Why not have a vinyl cutout made & change one or two numbers on your plate?
not being a hardened criminal i wouldn't push my luck that far... especially with rumors of road blocks and hidden police agenda's makes sense to assume that it may treated rather harshly. good thinking though. maybe lets see how it settles in.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 07:50:06 pm
:biggrin: ICM comes to mind...  :pot:

nah, I think his wife will protect him
:imaposer: :imaposer: wont keep him quiet though...  :biggrin:

nah, it won't, only be quiet when sucking Sanral dick, me thinks
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on December 03, 2013, 07:54:59 pm
May i suggest something?

Why not have a vinyl cutout made & change one or two numbers on your plate?
not being a hardened criminal i wouldn't push my luck that far... especially with rumors of road blocks and hidden police agenda's makes sense to assume that it may treated rather harshly. good thinking though. maybe lets see how it settles in.
lol....i ride with a broken plate anyway :thumleft:
Talk is cheap...take action! htfu
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 07:56:49 pm
http://www.youtube.com/v/8mp4SQzrXJA
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dookie on December 03, 2013, 08:02:21 pm
Ok.
OIlraaaitie then.

Bin on the bike the whole frikkin day long, zap signing(Carrots salute) all the gantries and all.

Where do I get copies of the photos?

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on December 03, 2013, 08:26:55 pm
"Mthembu said the ANC was grateful to the almost one million South Africans who had already bought their e-tags and who had committed themselves to working with the government to improve infrastructure."

When did it jump to 1 million e-tag users  ???

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-03-sadness-confusion-and-politicking-after-first-day-of-e-tolls (http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-03-sadness-confusion-and-politicking-after-first-day-of-e-tolls)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Fudmucker on December 03, 2013, 08:30:11 pm
Muddy number plates don't read well...   :sip:

Any deliberate obscuration of a number plate is illegal.
Mud is an act of God.
 ::)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Manic on December 03, 2013, 08:39:39 pm
Quote
Alliance against urban tolling statement at 5pm today that their in-situ electronic sensors confirm 985 322 vehicles passed through William Nicol gantry, only 1339 of them were SANRAL registered with an e-tag. This is a massive setback for SANRAL.


           
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on December 03, 2013, 08:40:30 pm
http://mobi.enca.com/south-africa/bumper-bumper-traffic-e-toll-alternative (http://mobi.enca.com/south-africa/bumper-bumper-traffic-e-toll-alternative)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on December 03, 2013, 08:41:08 pm
Quote
Alliance against urban tolling statement at 5pm today that their in-situ electronic sensors confirm 985 322 vehicles passed through William Nicol gantry, only 1339 of them were SANRAL registered with an e-tag. This is a massive setback for SANRAL.


           

So where are that million users hiding  ;D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Manic on December 03, 2013, 08:42:20 pm
Think that is more than just a Massive setback.

More like a Massive fuckup  :imaposer:   :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 03, 2013, 08:47:45 pm
Quote
Alliance against urban tolling statement at 5pm today that their in-situ electronic sensors confirm 985 322 vehicles passed through William Nicol gantry, only 1339 of them were SANRAL registered with an e-tag. This is a massive setback for SANRAL.


           

I doubt that's true - sounds too good to be
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: BlueBull2007 on December 04, 2013, 04:17:55 am
Haha I had to share this>

So my father in Law got all the moer in when we said we would never support e-toll. He was arguing that the road users should pay for the improved service, etc. etc. and went and bought a tag months ago.

Today the Mrs tells me he is the moer in because he has been charged R80.00 so far for going through the Zambesi toll...the thing is he has only been through it 3 times and it shouldn't cost nearly as much. The real question is that he has no recourse to argue the amount billed.... another can of worms.

Not much sympathy from my side, because he was warned ;D.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Wild Hearted Son on December 04, 2013, 07:21:51 am
from SANRAL website :

Electronic Toll Collection (ETC) will be rolled out to all existing toll
plazas within South Africa over the coming years
. Wherever road users see the e-tag sign, they will be able to use their registered e-tag to pay the required toll fee(s).

read it & weep

http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/index.php?gort_xml+template~~menu/main~~L1_2070~~ENG~~~~~~ (http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/index.php?gort_xml+template~~menu/main~~L1_2070~~ENG~~~~~~)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistonpete on December 04, 2013, 07:30:10 am
.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 04, 2013, 07:50:38 am
I drove under 2 gantries today. Just checked via e toll website and it says 3 entries???

How do you check this on the website?  Just browsed around and cant find any options for that.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: badballie on December 04, 2013, 07:54:35 am
I drove under 2 gantries today. Just checked via e toll website and it says 3 entries???

How do you check this on the website?  Just browsed around and cant find any options for that.

Check here https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx)

But that link changes between this view and registered user log in page so try until you get to the page where you put in your reg no
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 04, 2013, 08:08:22 am
What we need is a standardised dispute form which we can send then if and when we get our bill.

Any lawyers here willing to draw something up?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 04, 2013, 08:24:13 am
And so starts the raping.....

This is for 1 day to work and back and this morning to work. I get 1 gantry on my way in and 2 on my way back. Travel less than 10km on "their" road. Still gonna cost R320 a month!!! Fukc em!

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k540/Toffie12/2013-12-04_0747_zps40b479f6.png)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on December 04, 2013, 08:32:07 am
We are going to make this fail! Excerpt from OUTA on Facebook:

1 million motorists refuse to pay eTolls · 92,599 like this.
11 hours ago ·

    Alliance against urban tolling statement at 5pm today that their in-situ electronic sensors confirm 985 322 vehicles passed through William Nicol gantry, only 1339 of them were SANRAL registered with an e-tag.

   DON"T CAVE IN NOW PEOPLE. WE WILL WIN THIS!
    2,724Like · · Share
        Top Comments
        4,391 people like this.
        
        Ntsako Anti-Sober Chauke
Forget the middle finger this my fellow citizens is a legend....
        Ntsako Anti-Sober Chauke's photo.
        Like · Reply · 158 · 11 hours ago via mobile
            1 million motorists refuse to pay eTolls replied · 19 Replies · 22 minutes ago
...........................................................................................
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 08:34:04 am
And so starts the raping.....

This is for 1 day to work and back and this morning to work. I get 1 gantry on my way in and 2 on my way back. Travel less than 10km on "their" road. Still gonna cost R320 a month!!! Fukc em!

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k540/Toffie12/2013-12-04_0747_zps40b479f6.png)
How does the person who has no internet access have the opportunity to pay within 7 days?
This is grossly unfair and discriminatory.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 08:37:23 am
I was dissapointed that my bill had not been sent before I got home last night :( now I only have 6 days left to pay , and its not my fault I dirrent get the bill ontime.  Ohhhhhhh. Sigh , what am I gonna do now :( 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 08:39:38 am
I was dissapointed that my bill had not been sent before I got home last night :( now I only have 6 days left to pay , and its not my fault I dirrent get the bill ontime.  Ohhhhhhh. Sigh , what am I gonna do now :( 
Ja! I mean really! the post office should have done their part by now! :deal: >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MTK on December 04, 2013, 08:44:11 am
Proudly E-Toll Free

F...k em

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 08:44:35 am
I was dissapointed that my bill had not been sent before I got home last night :( now I only have 6 days left to pay , and its not my fault I dirrent get the bill ontime.  Ohhhhhhh. Sigh , what am I gonna do now :( 
Ja! I mean really! the post office should have done their part by now! :deal: >:D

Egggzacertly
I wonder if Nazi is going to threaten the PO with legal action now that they have fukked up my willingness to comply with scumral's requirements of paying within 7 days.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 04, 2013, 08:45:22 am
OK Day 1 - here are my conclusions:

1)  These toll schemes seem to have quite a dismal track record worldwide and many fail mostly because users either dont pay or minimise their exposure tp them, once the bills start racking up.  So on balance of probabilities this thing is going to fail anyway, we just need to help it along to speed up the process.

2) Many people are nervous and are trying to find a safe option.  Understandable.  But they also need to realise that there is no protection from a bully (which is what our government has become) other than standing up to him/it.  This government is intent on continually trying to squeeze more money out of its citizens, that's very clear.  Until those citizens say "enough" and actually mean it, that squeezing will continue and intensify IMO.  Also the government is becoming increasingly arrogant as each step it takes meets with little or no resistance.  The dissatisfaction about etolls is the first murmurings of an unhappy population - the governments response has been aggressive.  If we don't stop them now and make them think again, then you can expect that response to get more aggressive and arrogant in the future.  So what I am trying to say is taking the safe option now may not be that safe, you are just putting off the issue, and when you finally decide to say enough, its probably going to be harder then - that's my honest view.

3) SANRAL is trying very hard to project this as a success and everyone is getting worried about whether they are "winning" or not (after only one day  ::)).  But if we just remember all we need to do is simply do nothing (dont buy a tag and resist payment, or cancel your agreement with them) - they simply cant win!  They can bluster all they are worth.  It US who have to make this system work, not them.  Its failed in many other countries for exactly that reason.  We don't have to go along with this if we dont want to - it really is that simple.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 04, 2013, 09:40:53 am
And so starts the raping.....

This is for 1 day to work and back and this morning to work. I get 1 gantry on my way in and 2 on my way back. Travel less than 10km on "their" road. Still gonna cost R320 a month!!! Fukc em!

Hoe het jy by daai in gekom? Oral waar ek probeer kyk moet ek eers registreer
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 04, 2013, 09:43:32 am
And so starts the raping.....

This is for 1 day to work and back and this morning to work. I get 1 gantry on my way in and 2 on my way back. Travel less than 10km on "their" road. Still gonna cost R320 a month!!! Fukc em!

Hoe het jy by daai in gekom? Oral waar ek probeer kyk moet ek eers registreer

Toemaar het hom

https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 04, 2013, 10:03:44 am
Iets wat ek nogal geniet het:

Analogy on the Facebook site of Helen Zille, the Premier of the Western Cape.
"I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed.

What a beauty of a bird feeder it was, as I filled it lovingly with seed.
Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.
But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was
everywhere: on the patio tiles, the chairs, the table, everywhere!
Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.
After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone.
I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.
Soon, the back yard was like it used to be .. quiet, serene.. and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.
Now let's see.
Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care and free education, and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.
Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands.
Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child's second grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English. Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to 'press one' to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than our flag are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Just my opinion, but maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.
If you agree, pass it on; if not, continue cleaning up the poop."
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 04, 2013, 10:27:25 am
And so starts the raping.....

This is for 1 day to work and back and this morning to work. I get 1 gantry on my way in and 2 on my way back. Travel less than 10km on "their" road. Still gonna cost R320 a month!!! Fukc em!

Hoe het jy by daai in gekom? Oral waar ek probeer kyk moet ek eers registreer

Toemaar het hom

https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx)

I see one has to open the link a couple of times to get the right options

So there is about R30 already that I'm not paying without a judge telling me

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on December 04, 2013, 10:29:29 am
I don't want to go and look on their site.  I want to see it physically on paper.  Hulle moet kom bedel by my deur vir daai geld!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Xchallenge on December 04, 2013, 10:36:30 am
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1397356_10151750203245740_79756598_o.jpg)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Xchallenge on December 04, 2013, 10:37:30 am
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1398238_10151732524010740_1048081518_o.jpg)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on December 04, 2013, 11:20:50 am
My little trip yesterday cost R44. Man they gonna hoes to get it out of me....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Flouw on December 04, 2013, 11:25:34 am
you have to register when you want to view this?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 04, 2013, 11:28:47 am
you have to register when you want to view this?

Nope - just click on the link a couple of times and it will go past the registration.

Basically their website is just as much a reflection on them as an organization. Smoke and mirrors making you feel obliged to register to view "Unregistered Toll Users" pages.



 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 11:34:55 am
you have to register when you want to view this?

Nope - just click on the link a couple of times and it will go past the registration.

Basically their website is just as much a reflection on them as an organization. Smoke and mirrors making you feel obliged to register to view "Unregistered Toll Users" pages.



 
I think they fixed that bug...  :-\
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 04, 2013, 11:37:14 am
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Lourens ツ on December 04, 2013, 11:40:06 am
you have to register when you want to view this?

Nope - just click on the link a couple of times and it will go past the registration.

Basically their website is just as much a reflection on them as an organization. Smoke and mirrors making you feel obliged to register to view "Unregistered Toll Users" pages.

I think they fixed that bug...  :-\

I just used https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx) and it opened the correct page.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: MegaPix on December 04, 2013, 11:41:26 am
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Xchallenge on December 04, 2013, 11:42:18 am
Is this true? If so, I'll be so happy.

Could it be that someone vandalised them?

Sweet!

From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bike_Buddies on December 04, 2013, 11:43:54 am
Anyone going past that gantry that can get us a pic ??
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 04, 2013, 11:44:42 am
Not sure the reason. But I know the guy that posted it, so I'm sure that it is truly what he saw.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 04, 2013, 11:45:03 am
TIA boet. those things can be sold for R10!!!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 04, 2013, 11:48:25 am
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Ok that was one of the questions asked by media yesterday; 'should there be any vandalism at the gantries ewhat will SANRAL do to prevent and maintain?

The guy that answered was confident that it is not imposible but highly unlikely....hmmmm, interesting!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 12:05:18 pm
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Fukk yeah. Bwahahahahaha
That's my gantry. Hahahahaha

Uhmmmm no. It wuznt me .....promise

Give that bloke a bells
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 12:08:28 pm
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Ok that was one of the questions asked by media yesterday; 'should there be any vandalism at the gantries ewhat will SANRAL do to prevent and maintain?

The guy that answered was confident that it is not imposible but highly unlikely....hmmmm, interesting!

plse tell me you have pics  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Post it to ICM - he can see what real resistance is about. Not us bunch of keyboard jockies  :imaposer: :imaposer:

small victory - need many more :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bike_Buddies on December 04, 2013, 12:11:41 pm
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Fukk yeah. Bwahahahahaha
That's my gantry. Hahahahaha

Uhmmmm no. It wuznt me .....promise

Give that bloke a bells

Get us some pics

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on December 04, 2013, 12:13:04 pm
I wonder how long it will take for this to happen : http://citizen.co.za/81432/protesters-burn-french-toll-gantry/ (http://citizen.co.za/81432/protesters-burn-french-toll-gantry/)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 12:16:34 pm
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Fukk yeah. Bwahahahahaha
That's my gantry. Hahahahaha

Uhmmmm no. It wuznt me .....promise

Give that bloke a bells
:useless:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 12:17:27 pm

I just used https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx) and it opened the correct page.
I still get this... :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 12:20:52 pm
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Fukk yeah. Bwahahahahaha
That's my gantry. Hahahahaha

Uhmmmm no. It wuznt me .....promise

Give that bloke a bells
:useless:

I must try remember to take a pic tomorrow
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Lourens ツ on December 04, 2013, 12:21:37 pm

I just used https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx) and it opened the correct page.
I still get this... :spitcoffee:

Try to copy and paste the link in the address bar. You might have to do it more that once.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: HermanH on December 04, 2013, 12:22:08 pm

I just used https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx) and it opened the correct page.
I still get this... :spitcoffee:

After you pasted the address and hit the enter key, you will see the address changes to https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/Default.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/Default.aspx) . After the page has finished loading, replace the Default.aspx with PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx and hit enter again!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 12:28:45 pm
After you pasted the address and hit the enter key, you will see the address changes to https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/Default.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/Default.aspx) . After the page has finished loading, replace the Default.aspx with PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx and hit enter again!
That is kak to put it mildly... :patch: :xxbah:
I see I am ok, no one has used my plates... :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 12:43:15 pm
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Ok that was one of the questions asked by media yesterday; 'should there be any vandalism at the gantries ewhat will SANRAL do to prevent and maintain?

The guy that answered was confident that it is not imposible but highly unlikely....hmmmm, interesting!

plse tell me you have pics  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Post it to ICM - he can see what real resistance is about. Not us bunch of keyboard jockies  :imaposer: :imaposer:

small victory - need many more :thumleft:

if true, lets not believe things without actual corroborating proof ...something I have seen a lot of on these threads lately , ,,stuff is believed without so much as a query into authenticity...

but I agree, this is real resisantace, so which dog did it?

viva the resitance viva 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 12:53:12 pm
if true, query your toll use at that gantry? 
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on December 04, 2013, 01:04:34 pm
Another post from Facebook - can't vouch for the truthfulness, though. But believable, seeing as they've lied almost eveytime they've published anything!

12,728,400 Against E-Toll shared Proudly e-Tag Free's status.
29 November
Urgent, please read
eTAG STAND RENT_A_CROWD

Have you seen the people queuing up at East Rand Mall to buy an eTag? Scary isn't it.

I've used this marketing technique myself for clients and it works brilliantly. The people are hired extras and are on SANRAL's payroll (or rather their marketing company's payroll). I've seen it used for local celebrities many times. Danny K at one stage had a troop of marketing girls posing as fans following him to every public appearance. They would scream on cue like excited teenagers to create the illusion of popularity. And it worked.

Do not fall for it folks, its yet another false flag from SANRAL.

B eTag free.
Please share this message so the lie can be exposed.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 04, 2013, 01:05:38 pm
From another forum:

Right guys I've just come back from Benoni and the gantry at Atlas rd heading towards Witbank has been stripped of ALL OF THE CAMERAS, just the wires hanging...Saw this myself so it's no BS Clap

Ok that was one of the questions asked by media yesterday; 'should there be any vandalism at the gantries ewhat will SANRAL do to prevent and maintain?

The guy that answered was confident that it is not imposible but highly unlikely....hmmmm, interesting!

plse tell me you have pics  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Post it to ICM - he can see what real resistance is about. Not us bunch of keyboard jockies  :imaposer: :imaposer:

small victory - need many more :thumleft:

if true, lets not believe things without actual corroborating proof ...something I have seen a lot of on these threads lately , ,,stuff is believed without so much as a query into authenticity...

but I agree, this is real resisantace, so which dog did it?

viva the resitance viva 

 :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Divot on December 04, 2013, 01:08:14 pm
Another post from Facebook - can't vouch for the truthfulness, though. But believable, seeing as they've lied almost eveytime they've published anything!

12,728,400 Against E-Toll shared Proudly e-Tag Free's status.
29 November
Urgent, please read
eTAG STAND RENT_A_CROWD

Have you seen the people queuing up at East Rand Mall to buy an eTag? Scary isn't it.

I've used this marketing technique myself for clients and it works brilliantly. The people are hired extras and are on SANRAL's payroll (or rather their marketing company's payroll). I've seen it used for local celebrities many times. Danny K at one stage had a troop of marketing girls posing as fans following him to every public appearance. They would scream on cue like excited teenagers to create the illusion of popularity. And it worked.

Do not fall for it folks, its yet another false flag from SANRAL.

B eTag free.
Please share this message so the lie can be exposed.
I have heard and seen it all now.. I can believe that they would use this type of tactic to create the illusion of compliance.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 04, 2013, 01:14:37 pm
I have heard and seen it all now.. I can believe that they would use this type of tactic to create the illusion of compliance.

they are shameless thieves.
there is nothing they will not stoop to.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Flouw on December 04, 2013, 01:15:31 pm

I just used https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx) and it opened the correct page.
I still get this... :spitcoffee:

After you pasted the address and hit the enter key, you will see the address changes to https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/Default.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/Default.aspx) . After the page has finished loading, replace the Default.aspx with PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx and hit enter again!

right click, and say open new tab. do this 3 times. the 2nd and 3rd tab should be OK.

otherwise, just send your plate to someone else to check
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Goose on December 04, 2013, 01:17:32 pm
I personally think that a rumour should be started of the exceptional scrap value of the eToll camera's and gantry materials........   :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: ButtSlider on December 04, 2013, 01:20:32 pm
Now this is a plate to use on the highways.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 01:27:12 pm
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Lourens ツ on December 04, 2013, 01:54:02 pm
From: 12,728,400 Against E-Toll

Another Sanral threat is that traffic officers will be located at strategic locations in order to enforce all e-toll infringements. You need to know that traffic officers cannot issue spot fines for e-toll offenses because e-tolls doesn’t fall under the Traffic Offenses Act. So another threat that has no basis and cannot legally be done! Traffic officers are not allowed to issue fines relating to e-tolls!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Xchallenge on December 04, 2013, 02:10:19 pm
B.E.E.T.A.G
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 02:14:32 pm
Using public resources to benefit private interests

Much like showerhead sending SA para troops to CAR to protect his mining interest.

Jeez, he is the ultimate scum.  Stone him
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Dwerg on December 04, 2013, 02:51:58 pm
 :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Flouw on December 04, 2013, 02:59:59 pm
what would the mentality be, if they drop the whole E-toll thing just before the elections?
they will sing and dance, and a "new" ANC leader will be chosen.

this is like simcity to them. petrol price go up with 30c, everybody cries. they drop it by 10c and everyone is happy again.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 03:16:19 pm
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 04, 2013, 04:10:41 pm
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 04, 2013, 04:41:50 pm
Quote
There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

Why?

You've assumed that, but why?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Triple Trompie on December 04, 2013, 04:49:06 pm
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 04, 2013, 04:58:25 pm
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:



No TVB actually does work for SANRAL and I think his observations are relevant and certainly useful to see the inside of the machine as it were.

Just wondering why he has made that assumption, that's all.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 04, 2013, 05:24:05 pm
Some more on the Atlas Road gantry;

Will post pics from home later, but cameras are def missing, the ultraviolet lights and tag readers seem to be there, just cameras gone

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 05:44:51 pm
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

it was peak time to work and peak time back ?????
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mzee on December 04, 2013, 05:48:05 pm
E-toll nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 05:48:58 pm
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

 so you are saying i am paying for kilometers that i do not use ???? bwahahahahahahahaha  
fukkit the twatwaffle value of "user pays principle" along with the "right thing to do" just gets beter and beter
neee fok  .......  this NAZI crowd supporters are truely fukkwits
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 05:50:35 pm
going past atlas , on the other side , i did definately see some camera'a  , so dunno about the story , but ahhh fukkit  , i am just so enjoying the entertainment value of this whole cockupp   
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 04, 2013, 05:55:32 pm
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

 so you are saying i am paying for kilometers that i do not use ???? bwahahahahahahahaha  
fukkit the twatwaffle value of "user pays principle" along with the "right thing to do" just gets beter and beter
neee fok  .......  this NAZI crowd supporters are truely fukkwits


that's correct - in reality you will always pay more than the advertised rate per km, as the gantries are not located at the off ramps
So if you regularly take the next off ramp after a gantry, you'll get it nice, hard and deep  ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 06:58:29 pm
I think I can confirm that the atlas gantry is not working
As from yesterdays trip. I went under it to work , no charge ( R 4.70)
But return trip is charged ( R6.38)


Now here is a another question .... Why the fukk does it cost nearly 50 % extra to travel back home ,,,,,,  does scumral think ll be more willing to get a bigger ass reaming , just coz I am happy to be going home ???

Fuukk witts.
Hahahahahahaha
Seems like peak time there is no discount?  >:D

You are paying by kilometer, they have measured the distance between gantries and so on. That's why it is a different rate N vs South

Discount for tagged users are all hours, not just peak.

There will be a lot of growing pains but SANRAL will stay, and we will have to pay in the end.
They will not cut this cows throat ever, nort before the elections either

 so you are saying i am paying for kilometers that i do not use ???? bwahahahahahahahaha  
fukkit the twatwaffle value of "user pays principle" along with the "right thing to do" just gets beter and beter
neee fok  .......  this NAZI crowd supporters are truely fukkwits


that's correct - in reality you will always pay more than the advertised rate per km, as the gantries are not located at the off ramps
So if you regularly take the next off ramp after a gantry, you'll get it nice, hard and deep  ;)

 hahaha  dont ye just like the 'fair play"  these twatwaffles like to give it to the masses ,  and the cumguzzlers fall for it   bwahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Triple Trompie on December 04, 2013, 11:01:19 pm
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:



No TVB actually does work for SANRAL and I think his observations are relevant and certainly useful to see the inside of the machine as it were.

Just wondering why he has made that assumption, that's all.

O.K. My bad. Nothing personal. Was also wondering about the assumptions made, and the insistence that etoll is not going away...
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Lourens ツ on December 04, 2013, 11:04:57 pm
https://www.youtube.com/v/8mp4SQzrXJA

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 05, 2013, 06:42:32 am
Lyk my dis nie net ICM wat op SANRAL se payroll is nie....  :peepwall:



No TVB actually does work for SANRAL and I think his observations are relevant and certainly useful to see the inside of the machine as it were.

Just wondering why he has made that assumption, that's all.

O.K. My bad. Nothing personal. Was also wondering about the assumptions made, and the insistence that etoll is not going away...

Ok sorry for the late reply to the thread but we were really busy yesterday and all EMS (emergency medical servises) personnel work 12 hours and even longer. My day starts at 4 am and I get back home at 19H00 if nou late calls

Now I am confused for am I the one that is missing the bigger picture here? (Not sarcastic please - as you can clearly see English is my 2nd language)
From SANRAL side, why will they cut the 'fat cows throat'? Or don't I understand the question right?
First of all: before the world cup they decided (because of the cup) to upgrade the roads. The R21 and some other sections were only 2 lanes and emergency services were almost permanently bussy on these roads as it was really not well maintained and could not handle traffic and it was mostly dark (no lights like now)
Now we all know that the building of roads and especially highways are the most expensive part of any infrastructure. So there was not enough money and budged to cover this billions and they got expert advice from abroad. A grou of engineers (I met one) was commisioned to go overseas and look for solutions and the best suitable systems. European tech was the way to go with European money and to secure the deal a way of proof that we can pay back massive loans was to introduce toll. Also new to SA was the road monotoring system on the highways (surveylance) and all the added services.
Now to run an operation like this you need a HQ, and puplick service centres and people or employees. Thousands because there are shifts over 24 hour periods. Not to mention the emergency services which is by far the smallest part of the organisation. Security allone is massive here, security officials alone probably thousand+. It is hard to imagine the operations behind this, to operate the whole system if you haven't seen it. Trust me, it's massive.

Now ever since the Gov opt for this people were emplyed, contracts were sighnd and so on. For close to 2 years they have tried to get this live but the already established controll centre and operations were costing them big in salaries, road contractors (private companies) etc

Yes we pay something like R1.20 per liter of fuel that should go towards road maintenance and development or building of roads, but that budged is now way near enough.

E-toll (or toll not much different than we used to know it) is paying for this huge 'machine' to keep it running. I can not answer for any corruption in Goverment etc, but all I can say is that this is obviously a 'fat cow' and it will spread through the Country because it works. It provides infrastructure and it provides jobs.

I feel it on my pocket as well, travel everyday from Pta North to Midrand. I don't like it either, but I am contracted to this project as a motorbike first response medic. It's my job no matter if I do it on a normal publick road or a privetised Toll road. I lost my contract abroad a year ago (many contracts came to an end) and a forum member helped me to get this job which I am gratefull till I get another good contract abroad again. This is my role - I am not happy like I stated many times already to pay this prices and it snowballs. Food and everything get more expensive, but I can't see how this can end. If it does collapse our Country will just slide backwards for the roads will not be maintained and we wil end up sitting hours in traffic.

A big reply and it feels I did not really answer the question ....... We all upset in a way
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Chillie on December 05, 2013, 07:17:53 am
This sums up my e tag
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 07:23:31 am
Thanks for the thoughts.

But I think we need to separate the issues:

1) Funding of the roads.  No matter how elaborate the infrastructure, funding that could have been done out of existing taxes.  The road improvements cost 23bn, the governments own report on wasteful, fruitless and corrupt expenditure for the year before last admitted to 25bn (I've attached the press release), so they could have paid for it all out of existing taxes without increasing the fuel levy or anything else in just  one year)!

2) Just because all the infrastructure is there does not mean people are going to happily pay and pay and pay over quite significant amounts of their disposable income.  So just because its all there, that does not mean that it wont fail.  And by fail I mean it wont recover enough money to remain financially viable into the future.

3) The whole thing doesn't make sense - the cost to the economy is enormous and its all completely unnecessary.  Which is why I strongly suspect the only reason why the government is so determined for it to go ahead is because of the funds siphoned off the top into individual's bank accounts!

Quote
Taxpayers didn't get value for R25bn
2012-01-16 16:38
Xolani Mbanjwa

Johannesburg - Auditor General Terence Nombembe has unearthed R25bn in unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure in national and provincial government departments in the 2010/2011 financial year.

Nombembe, who expressed concern about the financial controls in public sector spending, said this was an increase of R2.3bn compared with the previous financial year - because of his office's increased "scrutiny" of taxpayers’ money.

The exact figure of R25.445bn includes the spending of government entities such as Eskom and the SA National Roads Agency Limited.

Addressing reporters in Pretoria this morning Nombembe said he felt the most discomfort about the area of financial reporting, where government officials failed to record the correct amounts spent.

He said financial information was often corrected by his own officials during the auditing process at the end of the financial year.

While national and provincial departments, including entities, reported R13.7bn in unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful spending in their annual reports, the AG found a further R11.7bn through the final auditing processes.

Nombembe said financial managers should be trained to be able to report on finances correctly before all spheres of government could reach the target of clean audits by 2014.

"It (correct financial reporting) is the single and sole factor that will make clean audits in SA a reality. The role of the ministers, premiers, MECs, portfolio committees and Scopa [the standing committee on public accounts] is important,” said Nombembe.

One of the "biggest weaknesses" in government as a whole was the effectiveness of information technology systems and controls, said Nombembe.

The AG report shows that at provincial government level irregular expenditure - incurred in contravention of national laws - was the biggest culprit at R16.8bn, followed by unauthorised expenditure (overspending on certain projects) at R2.9bn while fruitless and wasteful expenditure (spending in vain, which could have been avoided) stood at R850m.

At national government level irregular expenditure was R4.5bn, fruitless and wasteful expenditure R593m and unauthorised expenditure was R802m.

Nombembe expressed concern that most government departments did not understand the requirements for meeting service delivery objectives and that departments were apparently deliberately not reporting their finances accordingly.

"Financial reporting is the biggest area of concern where there is [a] supply chain. This is where we still find a number of omissions by departments in adhering to departmental norms.

"Once again it’s an area, to a large extent, that does need to be given attention because there’s constant deviation. It doesn’t mean money has been lost, just that due processes are not embarked upon by government departments," said Nombembe.

He was also concerned with the high vacancy rate and called on government to employ skilled people who have an understanding of the basic accounting principles.

But Nombembe was pleased that senior government officials including the executive had committed themselves to improving the state of financial reporting and controls in the public sector.

He warned that unless the executive rise to the occasion and monitor financial controls in their respective departments Operation Clean Audit, set for 2014, would not be a reality.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 05, 2013, 07:34:18 am
Wayne Duvenhage: http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2013-12-05-e-toll-defiance-hasnt-failed-its-barely-started/#.UqAQPdIW2So (http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2013-12-05-e-toll-defiance-hasnt-failed-its-barely-started/#.UqAQPdIW2So)

Recently, questions and statements have arisen to insinuate that e-tolling’s launch has signalled the end or a failure of the defiance campaign. Nothing could be further from the truth. Defiance campaigns against irrational laws such as the Dompas and others throughout history did not result in the required change of heart by the authorities on the first day, week or month of resistance, did they?
Such campaigns are journeys, and the displays of civil courage take time to gather momentum, until a sufficient volume of society, aggrieved by the irrationality of a policy, begin to slow the system down and make it unworkable.

Until the past week, there has been no real opportunity for defiance. There have been a number of court challenges, marches, drive-slows and talk shops. These are the so-called ‘sparring sessions’, a postulation of position from both sides of the ring. In reality, defiance only starts when the bell sounds and the showdown begins. That’s when the true colours are nailed to the mast (or windscreen) and when the people are able to truly express their opinion.

Let’s face it, e-tolling systems do work in many parts of the world, but there is a general formula for these successes. They work in environments where the authorities have garnered the involvement, support and trust of the people through a meaningful and transparent public engagement process from the initial planning stages through to implementation. In addition, their success requires low costs of administration and collection of tolls (international benchmarks between five and 10%) and where tariffs are acceptable. These factors, if realised, generally ensure high levels of compliance from the launch (over 90%) and are, more often than not, sustainable over time.

In the case of Sanral’s e-toll debacle, virtually all the required elements were severely lacking. Transparency and public engagement was dismal and when coupled with the high tariffs and costs of collection (closer to 29% as opposed to Sanral’s claim of 17%), plus foreign company enrichment, it’s no wonder they are up against a tsunami of resistance. For these reasons they have entered the launch period with a questionable, but dismal number of 800,000 tags sold, which incidentally is less than 35% of the 2,3 million monthly freeway users. This is nothing short of a disaster for them and has necessitated a program of ‘calculated intimidation tactics’ from Sanral, with threats of summonses, criminal charges, bad debt listings, etc., in an attempt to coerce the public to tag up. And while these tactics may even add another few hundred thousand to their list, this will still be no more than 50% of freeway users at best, which is far from enough, sending a massive signal of success for the campaign of defiance.

What essentially happens in this scenario is that in a short while, the half paying for the tolls begin to realise the other half are getting away with it and are succeeding in their defiance. The once tagged then begin to ‘tag-down’, one by one they join resistance, tilting the scale against Sanral’s plan. The collection process then becomes far too costly to manage, eventually sending the authorities back to the drawing board. Sanral and their advisors realise this is a serious problem for them and their strategists are hard at work to hatch schemes to entice the untagged to come over, through a combination of ‘carrot and stick’ tactics.

The million and more Gauteng road users who have exercised civil courage to date will probably hold their ground and not fall for the shallow tactics and misinformation about the climbing numbers as espoused by Sanral. Despite a few expected queues at some of their centers during the first week of operation, the stay-away has been massive. E-tag counts of windscreens in car parks across the region are currently being undertaken and becoming a meaningful research exercise to verify the public’s suspicion of Sanral’s misleading information on the e-tag penetration rate, further boosting their civil courage and defiance against the unjust system.

So tolling has started and yes, a few hundred thousand citizens have tagged up, many forced to do so under ‘corporate fleet’ instructions. This merely drags the campaign of defiance on for several months longer, that’s all. Against this backdrop, e-tolling of Gauteng’s freeways will never be sustainable. Those who have tags did so under duress and the active citizens who didn’t, will remain resilient and sufficient in numbers to get the job done. They will proudly look back one day and say – “I remained untagged and was part of defiance campaign that stopped government’s irrational and unjust e-toll plan.”

It’s not a matter of if, but when the e-toll system in Gauteng will be scrapped. DM
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 05, 2013, 07:41:23 am
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1398238_10151732524010740_1048081518_o.jpg)

contacted Randburg signs this AM to get a price on them making a numberplate like this.
150mm x 150mm
will post the quote,  maybe,  if enough guys want one,  we can get a bulk discount.
now,  i don't ride with a plate ever,  but this WILL go on my bikes.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 05, 2013, 07:44:49 am
I don't know what they do or did with the money that was then supposed to build these roads. Just have a look at the rest of the Countries roads, especially in NW and Limpopo. Potholes and even sections where the tar broke up and big stretches of gravel.

Toll roads are administrated as 'a privat company' where you pay for a service and where you are the client and they have to provide or meet their side of the contract like all included road services. I am sure we will see many court cases by 'unhappy customers' in the future for example: you are stationary or even better, a truck is stationary and not removed (towed by SANRAL into the emergency lane within a certain time frame' or the road is not made safe behind the truck with traffic cones and flagman and you collide with the truck. I am speaking under correction but I think that since a stationary is reported the IRU (incident response vehicle) must be ther within 15 min to safeguard and take action.

It works a little bit different on a normal publick road wher 'A' no one is responsible to safeguard and clean or clear the road within a certain timeframe and 'B' you are not a 'client' that can either complain or take action. Here you can, you pay tolls and are entiteld now for the advertised servises.

2 sides to the story, good and bad. I hope to see development rather of more safe and better roads. And yes, I think the asking rate is too high per kilometer!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 07:59:08 am
I don't know what they do or did with the money that was then supposed to build these roads. Just have a look at the rest of the Countries roads, especially in NW and Limpopo. Potholes and even sections where the tar broke up and big stretches of gravel.

Toll roads are administrated as 'a privat company' where you pay for a service and where you are the client and they have to provide or meet their side of the contract like all included road services. I am sure we will see many court cases by 'unhappy customers' in the future for example: you are stationary or even better, a truck is stationary and not removed (towed by SANRAL into the emergency lane within a certain time frame' or the road is not made safe behind the truck with traffic cones and flagman and you collide with the truck. I am speaking under correction but I think that since a stationary is reported the IRU (incident response vehicle) must be ther within 15 min to safeguard and take action.

It works a little bit different on a normal publick road wher 'A' no one is responsible to safeguard and clean or clear the road within a certain timeframe and 'B' you are not a 'client' that can either complain or take action. Here you can, you pay tolls and are entiteld now for the advertised servises.

2 sides to the story, good and bad. I hope to see development rather of more safe and better roads. And yes, I think the asking rate is too high per kilometer!

The point upon which you and I differ is I expect the government to do their job and use my taxes properly.  So all these services should be provided by the government out of existing taxes - period!

I think you assume the government will not do that and so think that paying someone else OVER AND ABOVE your existing taxes is then a good deal.

Is that a fair observation?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 08:08:50 am
The structure is not in despute , it is what should have been done 10 yrs ago , what is being contested , is the amount we ( taxpayer) has to pay AGAIN for the structure ( srvice). And the amounts that is going out of the country , coupled with the inflated costs of resurfacing , the blatant lies and unscrupolous "dealings" that has been spouted by the shady characters involved
That is why , us ( taxpayers) have to fight this , if we don't the above mentioned locusts are going to consume every last bit of our country
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 05, 2013, 08:22:14 am
I don't know what they do or did with the money that was then supposed to build these roads. Just have a look at the rest of the Countries roads, especially in NW and Limpopo. Potholes and even sections where the tar broke up and big stretches of gravel.

Toll roads are administrated as 'a privat company' where you pay for a service and where you are the client and they have to provide or meet their side of the contract like all included road services. I am sure we will see many court cases by 'unhappy customers' in the future for example: you are stationary or even better, a truck is stationary and not removed (towed by SANRAL into the emergency lane within a certain time frame' or the road is not made safe behind the truck with traffic cones and flagman and you collide with the truck. I am speaking under correction but I think that since a stationary is reported the IRU (incident response vehicle) must be ther within 15 min to safeguard and take action.

It works a little bit different on a normal publick road wher 'A' no one is responsible to safeguard and clean or clear the road within a certain timeframe and 'B' you are not a 'client' that can either complain or take action. Here you can, you pay tolls and are entiteld now for the advertised servises.

2 sides to the story, good and bad. I hope to see development rather of more safe and better roads. And yes, I think the asking rate is too high per kilometer!

The point upon which you and I differ is I expect the government to do their job and use my taxes properly.  So all these services should be provided by the government out of existing taxes - period!

I think you assume the government will not do that and so think that paying someone else OVER AND ABOVE your existing taxes is then a good deal.

Is that a fair observation?

Your observation is fair. I do assume that the Gov will not upgrade and do what needs to be done because like I said: 'just have a look at other provincial roads, badly maintained and not handling the traffic volumes'
You see what I learned in life (direct translation)
Things you expext from people can't heart you, in other words I don't expect them to be responsible with the money for no Goverment in Africaincluding the old one was ever loyal to my observations. All corupt.

So yes, althouh I repeat myself once again; 'I don't like the idea for it is hurting my and my childrens pockets, it hurts all of our pockets, but at least now you Can expect service because you pay of it as a client.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 08:32:33 am
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on December 05, 2013, 08:36:02 am
SO I used the dreaded highway yesterday on the way back from Durban, Had to drop him off in Pta, so passed all the gantries from the N3 up to Brakfontein, They did get saluted by me.

But here is the thing, I was driving the Girlfriends car, the car is in her Mothers name, what now? Does Mama say Up yours Sanral, go collect from my daughter? I want them to say it was me, I want to have some fun with them now.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 05, 2013, 08:50:30 am
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 05, 2013, 09:03:35 am
COSATU keeping their part of the bargain;

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/12/05/snail-mail-to-block-e-tolls (http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/12/05/snail-mail-to-block-e-tolls)

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 05, 2013, 09:06:54 am
http://citizen.co.za/95006/sanral-denies-e-tag-scare-tactics/ (http://citizen.co.za/95006/sanral-denies-e-tag-scare-tactics/)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DRAZIL on December 05, 2013, 09:12:21 am
COSATU keeping their part of the bargain;

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/12/05/snail-mail-to-block-e-tolls (http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/12/05/snail-mail-to-block-e-tolls)



I personally did not think it possible for them to go slower than they already are  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on December 05, 2013, 09:12:38 am
Oh and one thing we noticed on our drive yesterday, There are very few tags to be seen. very few of the cars we passed had tags on their windscreens, I would say less than 5% of the cars we passed had.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Takashi on December 05, 2013, 09:20:05 am
How about we start a list of how much money we owe Sanral?
Farkers will have to find me before I pay a cent.

Takashi - R25.70
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 09:51:32 am
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)

Agree with you 100%

Only thing is how do you compare the cost directly. The other countries could have the costs subsidised from ather areas like fuel tax etc
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 05, 2013, 10:13:35 am
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)

Agree with you 100%

Only thing is how do you compare the cost directly. The other countries could have the costs subsidised from ather areas like fuel tax etc

The issue in SA is that we are already paying a moerse lot of tax.  On top of that we pay for health care, education, security, etc etc.  so its easy for an Ozzy or any first world country person to be happy with tolls, since most of his other expenditure is covered by taxes, most likely at a lower rate than ours.

SA is gatvol for a thieving government milking us more and more.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 05, 2013, 10:18:32 am
Adding to what KilRoy said - in a first world country the burden of tax is also spread more evenly over the population. Where here it is basically the smaller middle class that has to fork out for all the expenditure.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 05, 2013, 10:26:13 am
agreed. then what we are doing is probably the best way to replace the government. it will be difficult for them to hide this from their voters in the event of a total fail.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 11:07:10 am
Hell a few years ago I was in Melbourn and we traveled along the highway everyday to work and back and this little thing on the window kept going beep beep every time we went under the lights. I asked about the system and was told its electronic tagging. Dont you guys have this they asked? No wonder your roads are up to shit. They bragged about how efficient it is and how the roads have improved and how it has changed their lives. Yes they also complained about the cost but all agreed its worth it in the end.(this is the same road they mentioned in one of the attached articles posted earlier that are having money issues fair enough its being addressed)

Now us South Africans all sat their saying the same thing to each other. If only SA was first world like this. If only we could get this right. If only,  if only..

We all talk about the rest of the worlds great roads and infrastructure. Their trains that are amazing and always on time. the multilane highways that are well maintained and well policed and have all the medical response etc.

Everywhere in the world SA residents go they all say the same thing! If only we could have this if only we could have that. World class Gautrain, World class highways, world class BRT systems in Cape town and elsewhere. Yes you have to pay for these things here and everywhere else in the world. These systems don't happen overnight and cost a fortune!

Do you want the best in the world or not! If you do you gonna have to pay.


fair enough and i think we all agree with good roads and service, i think well for me at least the bitter pill is that 25bn bucks went missing due to corruption, incompetence and greed. now we have to pay our hard earned money to offset these sorts of things, surely if all the coffers were accounted for that money could have changed our toll rates (if they still need to happen) to like 2c a trip? we are being held accountable for the government mistakes. what about them people who spent 10k on nandos in a month? off scott free i bet. we are a third world country with the 5th most expensive tolling. (I saw somewhere.)

Agree with you 100%

Only thing is how do you compare the cost directly. The other countries could have the costs subsidised from ather areas like fuel tax etc

The issue in SA is that we are already paying a moerse lot of tax.  On top of that we pay for health care, education, security, etc etc.  so its easy for an Ozzy or any first world country person to be happy with tolls, since most of his other expenditure is covered by taxes, most likely at a lower rate than ours.

SA is gatvol for a thieving government milking us more and more.

Ohh man come on now, Australia doesn't have everything for free and pay no tax. Been there and had that discussion with them. You are not as hard done by as what you think.
Is this a moerse lot of tax
http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Income%20and%20deductions/How%20much%20income%20tax%20you%20pay/Tax%20rates/ (http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Income%20and%20deductions/How%20much%20income%20tax%20you%20pay/Tax%20rates/)

As far as most not paying tax well yes that's the legacy of the country. Must the others all live in squatter camps with nothing for ever and ever. That wont improve anything for anybody. i don't like it but that's just what it is. We have to make it work and unfortunately we have to do some subsidizing.


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: J-dog on December 05, 2013, 11:11:59 am
Go Big,

I lived there for a long period :-)

Tax base is large and taxes generally quite low. No need to pay for medical, security or education.

Plus cars are cheap and mortgage rates low.

Disposable income is much higher there  :3some:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 11:14:17 am
Go Big,

I lived there for a long period :-)

Tax base is large and taxes generally quite low. No need to pay for medical, security or education.

Plus cars are cheap and mortgage rates low.

Disposable income is much higher there  :3some:

Ohhh please you pay tax for medical and still have to top up with private cover!
Wher did you live in Oz! the free part :imaposer:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/7898820/Expat-guide-to-Australia-health-care.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/7898820/Expat-guide-to-Australia-health-care.html)


I can go on all day as to how they make you pay for everything there.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Veldbrand on December 05, 2013, 11:21:24 am
That shit is irrelevant considering the fact that we pay for our roads to be built and maintained by paying huge taxes and absurd fuel levies that get shifted between corrupt officials who pay like 280 bar for a road to Nkandla and if there are not enough funds to cover everybody's personal needs they mindlessly just siphon funds from everybody's pension fund to sort it out.
And then have the fucking cheek to restrict your movement by extorting tolls from all of us.
Fuck'm again
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 11:21:57 am
At the moment the Australians are paying over R2 more than what I am for unleaded petrol down at the coast. Imagine how many roads you could build or how many subsidized tolls roads you could run with that money?

Its all free in Oz i tell you.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on December 05, 2013, 11:22:29 am
Go Big,

I lived there for a long period :-)

Tax base is large and taxes generally quite low. No need to pay for medical, security or education.

Plus cars are cheap and mortgage rates low.

Disposable income is much higher there  :3some:

Plus they don't have 20 million or so jobless to support..........

From TVB: ".............................A grou of engineers (I met one) was commisioned to go overseas and look for solutions and the best suitable systems. European tech was the way to go with European money and to secure the deal a way of proof that we can pay back massive loans was to introduce toll. ................................."

Now THAT is the real crux of the matter - what was decided by whom with Kapsch? This is what Scumral is fighting so desperately to keep secret. There are far cheaper ways to implement the "user pays" principle touted by Scumral.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 11:26:16 am
Look what you pay to license a car or renew!! Bikes and cars the same price :o
Its expensive! Maybe all that extra they charge goes towards their roads.......

Its free in Oz man free!


WTF guys come on now.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 11:29:27 am
here you go cheap licensing hey!

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/FeesFormsAndFAQs/LicensingFees/DriverLicenceandLearnerPermitfees.htm (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Licences/FeesFormsAndFAQs/LicensingFees/DriverLicenceandLearnerPermitfees.htm)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 11:30:36 am
At the moment the Australians are paying over R2 more than what I am for unleaded petrol down at the coast. Imagine how many roads you could build or how many subsidized tolls roads you could run with that money?

Its all free in Oz i tell you.


 Average. Anual workers salary in OZ ?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 11:46:45 am
Ohh jeees


Just do the big mac meal comparison!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 05, 2013, 12:00:15 pm
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1398238_10151732524010740_1048081518_o.jpg)

contacted Randburg signs this AM to get a price on them making a numberplate like this.
150mm x 150mm
will post the quote,  maybe,  if enough guys want one,  we can get a bulk discount.
now,  i don't ride with a plate ever,  but this WILL go on my bikes.

will the plates be bike dimensions i.e. more square
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 05, 2013, 12:26:26 pm
Ohh jeees

Just do the big mac meal comparison!

Burgernomics must be the most flawed economic comparison out there. So a hamburger costs 5c cheaper in SA. Too bad 85% of the population in SA can't afford it. So how does that compute to average living standards and costs?  Equally ridiculous is factoring in that a burger costs R5 more in Switzerland and then claiming that the living standards is very expensive, although 85% of the population can afford to buy it.

What it does do is create a more informal way of judging the purchasing power parity (PPP) between two currencies and provides a proof/test of the scale to which market exchange rates result in goods costing about the same in different countries. It makes the exchange rate theory more digestible to us mere mortals.


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Swart Gevaar on December 05, 2013, 12:51:32 pm
Just came across this


e-tolling. File photo
Image by: Picture: GALLO IMAGES
E-tolling faces a new stumbling block in its first week of operation - Post Office workers have vowed to delay the delivery of summonses to motorists and traffic police have started an unofficial go-slow.

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Yesterday, the Cosatu-affiliated Communications Workers' Union urged its workers, who have been on a go-slow, to strengthen their contribution to Cosatu's campaign against e-tolls by delaying the delivery to defaulting motorists of SA National Roads Agency mail.

"We [want] our workers to be really extremely slow when they see the e-tolls mail," Aubrey Tshabalala, the union's Gauteng secretary, said.

"Our members will be very slow. The snail will be faster than us when we see e-tolls mail."

He said the go-slow would become a stayaway on December 24 and January 2.

If the go-slow persists at the Post Office, the delay in the delivery of the seven-day demands to motorists without e-tags would jeopardise Sanral's case against defaulters.

Tshabalala said main Post Office centres such as those at Witspos, Germiston, OR Tambo International airport and Krugersdorp would be in complete lockdown.

Traffic officers in Ekurhuleni and Johannesburg, who complain that they are being overwhelmed by the diversion of traffic onto secondary routes by e-tolling, have resorted to dragging their feet.

The officers are members of the SA Municipal Workers' Union, an affiliate of Cosatu.

Samwu's Gauteng legal officer, Jack Mokalapa, confirmed officers were on an unofficial go-slow.

"We cannot be held responsible for the go-slow. It's not the official position of the union but we have assured our members that we will fight the e-tolls through Cosatu," he said.

Mokalapa said the union had received complaints from officers about the "madness" on alternative roads.

"It is an added burden, which is unnecessary. As a Cosatu affiliate, we will continue to exert pressure on the government to scrap the e-tolls. They are affecting operations and officers cannot respond to other emergency cases," he said.

Both the Ekurhuleni and the Johannesburg metro police departments claimed they were not aware of the go-slow.

"As far as I know, all our officers are on their feet doing their work," said Johannesburg metro police spokesman Edna Mamonyane.

Her counterpart in Ekurhuleni, Wilfred Kgasago, said: "There's no evidence that there is a go-slow."

When asked whether the go-slow would affect the delivery of its notices, Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said: "Not at this moment."

He also said that he had no knowledge of go-slow protests by Post Office workers and metro police.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 01:19:18 pm
Ohh jeees


Just do the big mac meal comparison!


The pearl of come backs thus far  :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Go Big on December 05, 2013, 01:32:00 pm
I had to dumb it down for you to understand.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Ganjora on December 05, 2013, 01:35:00 pm
will the plates be bike dimensions i.e. more square

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=140183.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=140183.0)

150mm x 150mm
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 05, 2013, 01:45:38 pm
Dudes, dont you see whats happening? Even government services is now turning on the government.  A moerse lot of trans-racial solidarity is created.  This is great for nation building and doom and gloom for the ANC.

I would guess the following.....

Zuma and his cronies from the current administration know they are on their way out. They have fingers in the Scumral pie. They are milking as much as they can in the ultimate act of 'big chief' defiance before they get frogmarched. 

ETolls meanwhile will do irreparable damage to the ANC, but showerhead doesnt care. Its about him now. The chief must feast.....
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 02:56:04 pm
I had to dumb it down for you to understand.

What do you prefere , the horse blinkers your using , or 2 bigmacs as replacements
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 02:59:59 pm
Dudes, dont you see whats happening? Even government services is now turning on the government.  A moerse lot of trans-racial solidarity is created.  This is great for nation building and doom and gloom for the ANC.

I would guess the following.....

Zuma and his cronies from the current administration know they are on their way out. They have fingers in the Scumral pie. They are milking as much as they can in the ultimate act of 'big chief' defiance before they get frogmarched. 

ETolls meanwhile will do irreparable damage to the ANC, but showerhead doesnt care. Its about him now. The chief must feast.....

This is possibly the best result ... If it comes to fruition.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Beebop on December 05, 2013, 03:02:03 pm
We dont they collect the R12.2 billion profit from Eksdom.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Veldbrand on December 05, 2013, 03:04:49 pm
We dont they collect the R12.2 billion profit from Eksdom.
They could but WTF are the Eksdom fuckers gonna get for X-mas then?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 03:07:07 pm
Dudes, dont you see whats happening? Even government services is now turning on the government.  A moerse lot of trans-racial solidarity is created.  This is great for nation building and doom and gloom for the ANC.

I would guess the following.....

Zuma and his cronies from the current administration know they are on their way out. They have fingers in the Scumral pie. They are milking as much as they can in the ultimate act of 'big chief' defiance before they get frogmarched. 

ETolls meanwhile will do irreparable damage to the ANC, but showerhead doesnt care. Its about him now. The chief must feast.....

must say that excites me but also has anyone thoroughly thought through the ramifications of govt turning on govt .....

yes ,we may get rid of the tolls , but what are the consequneces of this ..we know nothing happens in isolation
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 03:09:13 pm
We dont they collect the R12.2 billion profit from Eksdom.

Good idea , but at the moment they don't have to , sheeple ar buying e_tags

And locusts don't like sharing , not even with other locusts
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 03:21:45 pm
It sounds to me like the majority support this because they like to feel like they have power for a change. Maybe they feel that they don't currently have any political power, so for the first time they feel they have some power. People seem to have a go at people who don't support the protest, but mainly because it reduces their power.

Those that are supporting a political agenda seem to mainly be protesting the miss-use of tax due to corruption and inefficiencies. Problem is it that fixing corruption would not pay for the roads upgrades. It costs money to crack down on corruption. It costs money to make tax spending more efficient. It may not be economical to pay for road upgrades by reducing corruption. But it may be economical to use e-toll. Ultimately the roads will not be maintained unless tax payers pay for it. And ultimately the government will not work unless politicians are responsible for their actions. Two separate issues.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 03:33:28 pm
It sounds to me like the majority support this because they like to feel like they have power for a change. Maybe they feel that they don't currently have any political power, so for the first time they feel they have some power. People seem to have a go at people who don't support the protest, but mainly because it reduces their power.

Those that are supporting a political agenda seem to mainly be protesting the miss-use of tax due to corruption and inefficiencies. Problem is it that fixing corruption would not pay for the roads upgrades. It costs money to crack down on corruption. It costs money to make tax spending more efficient. It may not be economical to pay for road upgrades by reducing corruption. But it may be economical to use e-toll. Ultimately the roads will not be maintained unless tax payers pay for it. And ultimately the government will not work unless politicians are responsible for their actions. Two separate issues.

Dont completely agree.

To me the cause effect chain is quite clear:

1) Government is wasting money in massive chunks.
2) Public does nothing about that
3) Government carries on and thus is constantly short of money for all sorts of things - including road maitnenance
4)  Government see's the opportunity to collect even more money from etolls

- Now if we do nothing you can just go back to point 1) and carry on with that cycle, where point 4 will become some other scheme to raise money.

OR

You can stop the etolls and break the cycle.

That's the way I see it.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 03:40:59 pm
Dont completely agree.

To me the cause effect chain is quite clear:

1) Government is wasting money in massive chunks.
2) Public does nothing about that
3) Government carries on and thus is constantly short of money for all sorts of things - including road maitnenance
4)  Government see's the opportunity to collect even more money from etolls

- Now if we do nothing you can just go back to point 1) and carry on with that cycle, where point 4 will become some other scheme to raise money.

OR

You can stop the etolls and break the cycle.

That's the way I see it.


Breaking the chain will not make the government responsible for their actions (corruption). It will just break the countries economy. Making the government responsible is about educating the masses that it is their responsibility to make the government accountable.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 03:43:12 pm
That being said, I'm not saying I don't support the protest. I enjoy watching the government sweat. But ultimately the public must pay for the maintenance.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 03:45:34 pm
Still don't agree, corrupt people will try anything they think they can get away with.  If you start showing that cannot get away with the stuff they used to anymore their options narrow, and a whole lot of things they were/are dreaming of suddenly become nonviable.

The masses aren't relevant, they don't have money.  Its all about extracting your money from you.  You need to stop handing it over so willingly - thats what this is all about IMO.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 03:49:05 pm
Still don't agree, corrupt people will try anything they think they can get away with.  If you start showing that cannot get away with the stuff they used to anymore their options narrow, and a whole lot of things they were/are dreaming of suddenly become nonviable.

The masses aren't relevant, they don't have money.  Its all about extracting your money from you.  You need to stop handing it over so willingly - thats what this is all about IMO.

Your mistake in the logic is assuming that those wasting money and those behind the e-toll share one collective consciousness. By stopping e-toll, you will not stop people from being corrupt. As stated before. The only way to narrow peoples options to be corrupt is to make them accountable.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 05, 2013, 03:55:52 pm
Still don't agree, corrupt people will try anything they think they can get away with.  If you start showing that cannot get away with the stuff they used to anymore their options narrow, and a whole lot of things they were/are dreaming of suddenly become nonviable.

The masses aren't relevant, they don't have money.  Its all about extracting your money from you.  You need to stop handing it over so willingly - thats what this is all about IMO.

Your mistake in the logic is assuming that those wasting money and those behind the e-toll share one collective consciousness. By stopping e-toll, you will not stop people from being corrupt. As stated before. The only way to narrow peoples options to be corrupt is to make them accountable.

I agree, but we have to show govt that they can not just introduce new taxes as they feel and then collect these taxes in such an inefficient manner, that forces one to assume there is corruption in e-tolling as a collection mechanism - the fuel levy would have caused hardly a reaction
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 03:56:37 pm
Still dont agree  :biggrin:

Think of it as say a body corporate.  

If they want to raise the levy but are wasting huge chunks of money (maybe through corruption or whatever it actually doesnt matter), its not unreasonable for the residents to say - we don't accept your reasons for the proposed  raise, first fix your internal problems and use the money better.

That way you cause a crisis and the trustees start having to find another way to sort out their issues, when there was no real pressure before to do so.  If they have no reason to sort out their  problems why should they?

That's more or less what I'm trying to say.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 04:06:14 pm
@Bundu: Yes that is a valid point.

Still dont agree  :biggrin:

Think of it as say a body corporate.  

If they want to raise the levy but are wasting huge chunks of money (maybe through corruption or whatever it actually doesnt matter), its not unreasonable for the residents to say - we don't accept your reasons for the proposed  raise, first fix your internal problems and use the money better.

That way you cause a crisis and the trustees start having to find another way to sort out their issues, when there was no real pressure before to do so.  If they have no reason to sort out their  problems why should they?

That's more or less what I'm trying to say.

But as stated. What if fixing the internal problem costs more than the actual problem in the first place. Admittedly this is speculation and actually impossible to quantify.

Applying pressure only works if it's viable for them to solve the problem by weeding out corruption.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 04:09:57 pm
A separate point on the etolls specifically -  if you think about it, whats the difference between raising the extra money (which dont believe they need, but lets ignore that for now), via the fuel levy, increased normal taxes, VAT or any other means as opposed  etolls?

Well they all boil down to more or less the same thing with one glaring exception - the huge "collection fee" attached to etolls.

In none of the other mechanisms can private individuals benefit from a stream of cashflow enabled by law.

That alone makes me VERY suspicious of etolls, and even if a miracle occurs and there is no fraud involved (the current track record doesnt support that at all - right?), it still means its the WORST way of collecting money for the road improvements!  This has been OUTA's point all along and I think they are 100% right.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 04:15:57 pm
I do agree that etolls is an inefficient mechanism for collecting this money. And as I stated I enjoy seeing the government sweat, for a change.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 05, 2013, 04:25:17 pm
I do agree that etolls is an inefficient mechanism for collecting this money. And as I stated I enjoy seeing the government sweat, for a change.

Should government apply the fuel levy for its original intent and not toss it into the general fiscus as is happening presently there will be sufficient funds to build and maintain a 1st world road system. :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Beebop on December 05, 2013, 04:27:50 pm
I do agree that etolls is an inefficient mechanism for collecting this money. And as I stated I enjoy seeing the government sweat, for a change.

Should government apply the fuel levy for its original intent and not toss it into the general fiscus as is happening presently there will be sufficient funds to build and maintain a 1st world road system. :sip:
But then where would the money come from for the 20 odd million social grants ?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 04:31:59 pm
Should government apply the fuel levy for its original intent and not toss it into the general fiscus as is happening presently there will be sufficient funds to build and maintain a 1st world road system. :sip:

Correct. But I don't think this takes away from my previous comments :sip:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: RobC on December 05, 2013, 04:32:21 pm
I do agree that etolls is an inefficient mechanism for collecting this money. And as I stated I enjoy seeing the government sweat, for a change.

Should government apply the fuel levy for its original intent and not toss it into the general fiscus as is happening presently there will be sufficient funds to build and maintain a 1st world road system. :sip:
But then where would the money come from for the 20 odd million social grants ?
It is a fuel levy not a social grant tax... it should be applied as it's name says or scrapped if it is no longer used for that purpose.
Social grants is a topic on it's own too... let me not get started on THAT issue. >:D
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Beebop on December 05, 2013, 04:35:43 pm
I do agree that etolls is an inefficient mechanism for collecting this money. And as I stated I enjoy seeing the government sweat, for a change.

Should government apply the fuel levy for its original intent and not toss it into the general fiscus as is happening presently there will be sufficient funds to build and maintain a 1st world road system. :sip:
But then where would the money come from for the 20 odd million social grants ?
It is a fuel levy not a social grant tax... it should be applied as it's name says or scrapped if it is no longer used for that purpose.
Social grants is a topic on it's own too... let me not get started on THAT issue. >:D
problem came about many moons ago when the ring fence around fuel tax was removed and it dropped into the "big pot of money"
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 05, 2013, 04:36:51 pm
I do agree that etolls is an inefficient mechanism for collecting this money. And as I stated I enjoy seeing the government sweat, for a change.

Should government apply the fuel levy for its original intent and not toss it into the general fiscus as is happening presently there will be sufficient funds to build and maintain a 1st world road system. :sip:
But then where would the money come from for the 20 odd million social grants ?
It is a fuel levy not a social grant tax... it should be applied as it's name says or scrapped if it is no longer used for that purpose.
Social grants is a topic on it's own too... let me not get started on THAT issue. >:D

we should have insisted on that when the NATs changed the ring fencing years ago to use the money for war
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: KiLRoy on December 05, 2013, 04:37:31 pm
I agree with Alan, sometimes one has to hurt real bad to change your behaviour. Think government must feel it at the polls. Maybe lose a province or 3. Thats the only way they will learn.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 04:45:00 pm
Quote
Applying pressure only works if it's viable for them to solve the problem by weeding out corruption.

So far it seems to me that very little is done about the lavish lifestyles, wasteful expenditure, corruption etc.  They can use their majority to shout down or sideline anyone that tries - you can see that in the press.  

Just look at the constant stream of attacks from her own government the Public Protector has to endure (hats off to that brave woman by the way).

But threatening to shut off the money tap gets their attention STRAIGHT AWAY. Because they know the cycle cannot continue then.  Where is next year's lavish lifestyle going to come from?  If it comes down to ejecting the worst offenders and shutting down blatant abuses or their own jobs, who do you think they will choose?  Right now its just "game on" with no limits!
 
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on December 05, 2013, 05:03:31 pm
well. didnt the credit removal indicate a turning point? before that it was urban legend stuff in.white newspaper's.  now its a known fact admitted by the perpetrators. right direction I would say. audits are happening and waiting. I think the tide is turning.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 05, 2013, 05:03:37 pm
But you can't simply eject the worst offenders. It costs money to find out who the worst offenders are. Then it costs money in legal fees to do the ejecting. This brings me back to my original point. It might not be economical.
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on December 05, 2013, 05:08:49 pm
indeed. its a culture that must change. or a mindset. cant go backwards for accountability but can use it going forwards. one or two examples and word will get round. wonder why there isn't more whistle blowing? fear? ? ignorance? maybe cronyism?  not all are crocked in my opinion
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 05, 2013, 05:14:51 pm
But you can't simply eject the worst offenders. It costs money to find out who the worst offenders are. Then it costs money in legal fees to do the ejecting. This brings me back to my original point. It might not be economical.

not sure I'm following you...... surely we can't argue that it's too expensive to root out corruption, so we'll have to accept it?
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on December 05, 2013, 05:29:43 pm
But you can't simply eject the worst offenders. It costs money to find out who the worst offenders are. Then it costs money in legal fees to do the ejecting. This brings me back to my original point. It might not be economical.

It would be money well spent, because the wastage will stop (or some of it, anyway).
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: g1_ on December 06, 2013, 09:40:06 am
Of course we need to root out corruption. My point was simply that it might not be an economical way of paying for our road maintenance.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on December 12, 2013, 02:57:36 pm
Their are still lies being put forward by Scumral - 900 000 e-tags sold.
But a census by OUTA shows only 14% are using them on tolled highways.
Plus a survey shows:


Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mikie on December 13, 2013, 07:14:49 am
Their are still lies being put forward by Scumral - 900 000 e-tags sold.
But a census by OUTA shows only 14% are using them on tolled highways.
Plus a survey shows:




that doesnt mean its lies, the majority of those tag holders might not be regular toll road users or might not even bother voting, remember a large sum of that 900000 will be Car rental companies, fleet owners and govt vehicles, that itself should count for 80% of that sum I would say
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Vintage_Mania on December 13, 2013, 07:18:14 am
Agree with Mikie - also if you are a Bakwena e-tag user, you are automatically registered. They might be adding these to the figures as well.

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Oshkosh on December 13, 2013, 08:06:00 am
Agree with Mikie - also if you are a Bakwena e-tag user, you are automatically registered. They might be adding these to the figures as well.



VM that is correct they have taken over Bakwena's account & they do not issue e-tags anymore you have to go to e-tollie.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DouglasN on December 13, 2013, 11:46:44 am
Quote
.........., remember a large sum of that 900000 will be Car rental companies, fleet owners and govt vehicles, that itself should count for 80% of that sum I would say

rentals are apparently only 50000 vehicles

have not seem a metro or SAPS vehicle with an e-tag yet
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: TVB on December 13, 2013, 12:52:59 pm
I don't know about SAP or other official vehicles other than ER24 (although contracted to SANRAL and wraped in their sticker kits) but we as emergency medical services are all tagged. Each and every vehicle.

I went inside to enquire about the users or number of private users (no companies, fleet etc) and according to the system over 1 million private users and more than 25persent got more than 1 vehicle tagged and registered. People are still standing quee at the malls and publick service stations to get taggs.

I can't see this system fail, although I would love to see it fail!
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: woody1 on December 13, 2013, 01:04:19 pm
My wife had to pick somebody up at the airport. She wanted to take back roads.  I said NO!!! ride the road and let us see what happens.
So far nothing in the post and this morning I received this e-mail.  Did a check and NOTHING for this registration number.

If you want to check your e-toll balance without registering, here is a sneaky way to do it.
 
1)      Click on the below link. It will redirect you to the SANRAL log in screen.
2)      Copy and paste the below link into the same browser where the web address is, it will take you to a different search screen which does not require a login.
3)      In the Vehicle License Plate Number field, you enter your car’s registration number, and it will display the amount owing, and you don’t actually need to register on the site…
 
https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx)
Wat gaan aan.. Ek WIL mos betaal   :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: mox on December 13, 2013, 01:08:29 pm
My wife had to pick somebody up at the airport. She wanted to take back roads.  I said NO!!! ride the road and let us see what happens.
So far nothing in the post and this morning I received this e-mail.  Did a check and NOTHING for this registration number.

If you want to check your e-toll balance without registering, here is a sneaky way to do it.
 
1)      Click on the below link. It will redirect you to the SANRAL log in screen.
2)      Copy and paste the below link into the same browser where the web address is, it will take you to a different search screen which does not require a login.
3)      In the Vehicle License Plate Number field, you enter your car’s registration number, and it will display the amount owing, and you don’t actually need to register on the site…
 
 
https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx (https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/portal/PayTollFeesUnregisteredUsers.aspx)
ID text: 78407957b84e39f524ccbac3b1bc65f864a66956
car registration outstanding ??????????????
Wat gaan aan.. Ek WIL mos betaal   :pot:

It only goes to the customer login page now. seems they have removed the unregistered user page now.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: woody1 on December 13, 2013, 01:15:37 pm
Sheeeeet.. I see that now as wel.  Well it worked this morning when I looked.
Sorry !
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on December 17, 2013, 08:55:31 am
I'm in two minds about them closing this login loop-hole.  On the one side I'm happy that I can't see my charges without creating an account and logging in.  That means that they HAVE to send me a bill via registered mail before I know how much I "owe them".  But on the other hand some more idiots are now going to register on the site just to see how much they owe.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: IDR on December 17, 2013, 09:07:54 am
I'm in two minds about them closing this login loop-hole.  On the one side I'm happy that I can't see my charges without creating an account and logging in.  That means that they HAVE to send me a bill via registered mail before I know how much I "owe them".  But on the other hand some more idiots are now going to register on the site just to see how much they owe.

Due to a bit of an administrative oversight on my part (using a vehicle not registered in my name), I've had to register to be able to pay those fees ... *obviously* none of my own vehicles are registered ...

It's been a total clusterfuck - can't log in, can't get statements, haven't received anything in the mail, call center is a mess.  I can't see that they will be able to recover any tolls from people that don't have a prepaid e-tag.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Koet on December 17, 2013, 09:48:08 am
I'm in two minds about them closing this login loop-hole.  On the one side I'm happy that I can't see my charges without creating an account and logging in.  That means that they HAVE to send me a bill via registered mail before I know how much I "owe them".  But on the other hand some more idiots are now going to register on the site just to see how much they owe.

Due to a bit of an administrative oversight on my part (using a vehicle not registered in my name), I've had to register to be able to pay those fees ... *obviously* none of my own vehicles are registered ...

It's been a total clusterfuck - can't log in, can't get statements, haven't received anything in the mail, call center is a mess.  I can't see that they will be able to recover any tolls from people that don't have a prepaid e-tag.

That makes me happy.  All the other idiots with tags can pay, and the rest of us will just go on with life as usual.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: dirtyXT on December 17, 2013, 09:49:38 am
here ive gotten some traction on my anti-etol movement. hope im not the first guy to get chucked in jail.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 17, 2013, 10:23:47 am
here ive gotten some traction on my anti-etol movement. hope im not the first guy to get chucked in jail.

 :thumleft:

I've seen a couple of these around in the past week  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: punisher on December 18, 2013, 06:55:32 pm
here's mine 

Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Operator on December 18, 2013, 06:58:23 pm
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is this an interesting development or not ?


http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies (http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 18, 2013, 07:00:36 pm
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is this an interesting development or not ?


http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies (http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies)

I had a nice chuckle at that farkup  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Operator on December 18, 2013, 07:03:09 pm
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is this an interesting development or not ?


http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies (http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies)

I had a nice chuckle at that farkup  :lol8:


After the sign-language interpreter at the funeral, this would be the ANC's biggest and best f-up for the year!!!  :lol8:

They dont need group action or a rebellious public................they "f" it up without any assistance all on their own   :snorting:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 18, 2013, 07:04:47 pm
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Is this an interesting development or not ?


http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies (http://mg.co.za/article/2013-12-18-motorists-could-get-e-toll-refunds-due-to-discrepancies)

I had a nice chuckle at that farkup  :lol8:


After the sign-language interpreter at the funeral, this would be the ANC's biggest and best f-up for the year!!!  :lol8:

fuckers can't tie their own shoelaces  ::)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on December 18, 2013, 07:55:17 pm
This is also a positive sign for the e-toll opposition!

Lets do our bit to ensure they fold!!!  :thumleft:

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-faces-debt-danger-20131218 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-faces-debt-danger-20131218)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Pistol on December 19, 2013, 07:55:26 am
Excellent, hang in there everybody, the job is getting done by doing nothing at all :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on December 19, 2013, 03:00:35 pm
......posted in wrong thread! See "e-toll invoice"
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DeepBass9 on December 23, 2013, 01:51:44 pm
Etolls unconstitutional for this reason:

e-tolling, as a matter of national procurement, has to be imposed is dealt with in section 217 of the constitution. This important section requires that any and all state procurement has to take place according to a system which is "fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost-effective". It is arguable that the novel and expensive e-tolling system does not necessarily comply with these five criteria. It is enough to invalidate the system of e-tolling if only one criterion is not satisfied. This is because any conduct or law that is inconsistent with the constitution is invalid.

http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/2013/11/26/validity-of-e-tolls-has-yet-to-be-tested-against-constitution (http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/2013/11/26/validity-of-e-tolls-has-yet-to-be-tested-against-constitution)
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Bundu on December 23, 2013, 02:02:52 pm
Etolls unconstitutional for this reason:

e-tolling, as a matter of national procurement, has to be imposed is dealt with in section 217 of the constitution. This important section requires that any and all state procurement has to take place according to a system which is "fair, equitable, transparent, competitive and cost-effective". It is arguable that the novel and expensive e-tolling system does not necessarily comply with these five criteria. It is enough to invalidate the system of e-tolling if only one criterion is not satisfied. This is because any conduct or law that is inconsistent with the constitution is invalid.

http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/2013/11/26/validity-of-e-tolls-has-yet-to-be-tested-against-constitution (http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/2013/11/26/validity-of-e-tolls-has-yet-to-be-tested-against-constitution)


that, "cost effective", is  my main problem with e-tolling as well  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: DeepBass9 on December 23, 2013, 02:17:56 pm
Not to mention 'transparent' as well.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Manic on December 23, 2013, 05:37:22 pm
I got a Final Demand via Email today for my trucks using the E Toll Highways  >:D

7 days old  >:D

Dont think so  :lol8:


Our records indicate that you have made use of the Gauteng e-roads and have outstanding e-toll transactions older than 7 days in the amount of R 457.29, reference number 131********.

Please contact the e-toll Violations Processing Centre (VPC) on 0800 SANRAL (726 725) to arrange payment.

In the email subject it says HANDOVER.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Derik on December 23, 2013, 05:48:03 pm
Technical question regarding the gantries, arent they suppose to have height restriction boards on them indicating max height like on bridges? What will happen if a abnormal load comes through and destroy it? Surrely the company cant be held responsible for damages if no warning was given
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Rooikat on December 23, 2013, 05:51:51 pm
I got a Final Demand via Email today for my trucks using the E Toll Highways  >:D

7 days old  >:D

Dont think so  :lol8:


Our records indicate that you have made use of the Gauteng e-roads and have outstanding e-toll transactions older than 7 days in the amount of R 457.29, reference number 131********.

Please contact the e-toll Violations Processing Centre (VPC) on 0800 SANRAL (726 725) to arrange payment.

In the email subject it says HANDOVER.

Ha, ha, ha, ha! They can't even follow their own regulations............Just ignore, there are going to be thousands of cases like this.

Can't wait until someone in Parliament asks the Min how much money has been collected so far. Hopefully about a month before the elections - Scumral won't be able to say "Its too early to determine amount" . The system would be in operation for 4 months, plenty of time.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: XT JOE on December 27, 2013, 11:54:09 am

Good reading this. Heard a story that they can/will blacklist your name (which is easy enough to do) for non payment and then the AARTO blocking renewal of liscences or is this wishfull thinking
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Mr Zog on December 27, 2013, 11:56:17 am

Good reading this. Heard a story that they can/will blacklist your name (which is easy enough to do) for non payment and then the AARTO blocking renewal of liscences or is this wishfull thinking

Wishful thinking boet  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on December 28, 2013, 01:09:10 pm
Renewed two car licences yesterday to get the jump o them, before they get clever, no issues at all despiite driving under gantries since day one.
FVK EM.
Title: Re: E-Tolls go live - 3 December 2013
Post by: Kneeslider on Decembe