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General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 12:54:00 pm

Title: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 12:54:00 pm
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/eToll-Apartheid-20131202 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/eToll-Apartheid-20131202)

I guess ICM will laugh at it and and find it very amusing?  Is mos funny to see decent law abiding citizens standing up against corruption and undemocratic methods

Gloat some more then...



Russel
 
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eToll Apartheid

02 December 2013, 12:56

[Reference links are provided at the end of this article]
Listening to the radio this morning my heart was filled with sadness and a hint of disgust. I listened to a well-known Jacaranda FM personality utter words to the effect of “The Constitutional Court has ruled on the issue of eTolls” and in so doing spread misinformation to a great many listeners. The Constitutional Court has done no such thing! They simply ruled that the High Court was not empowered to put a stop to the GFIP project; there was no ruling on the constitutionality of it.
However for the sake of discussion let’s assume that eTolls are declared constitutional, what then? I think better questions to ask are “so what?” or “who cares?” In the past it was the law that certain people could only live in a certain place. The law wasn’t just!
Right now we have another government filled with Nationalists using bullying tactics of the highest order, straight out of the previous National Party book, to force through a new tax in the form of eTolls because at the very best they’ve wasted enough money each year for the last five years or so to have paid for the construction of the GFIP and all the eToll collection fees. That’s five GFIPs!!!! Wasted!!! At the worst there are some very pudgy fingers in a very large cooking jar. More gravy anyone!?
At what point do we as the people of this nation start to say enough is enough? Have we become a people of such timid moral courage that we’d rather look after number one and not bother the big boys because they play too rough? Will we wait until they do something more serious before we decide to act? Will we only wake up when they start to use guns and other weapons because someone else dared to win an election or think of doing so? Is that serious enough?
The problem is that waiting for those more serious moments means that by the time people do wake up it’s often too late. Take Zimbabwe as an example. It’s near impossible for them to get rid of uncle Bob now.
Our time is now!! Everything about the way in which eTolling has been implemented in our great country is corrupt to the core and represents the very worst of what our country has to offer. We don’t have money to build or upgrade the roads because that which was already paid has been wasted or misappropriated so our government simply dips their hands back into our pockets to pay for their poor decisions. Enough is enough right now!!
I for one will not buy an eTag and I won’t be paying again to use the roads I’ve already paid for. I paid away one third of my life savings in tax when I left my professional job and our government doesn’t seem to think we have any right to demand answers from them over how this tax money is spent!!
I appeal to each one to have moral courage now. Make a decision of conscience and resist the theft of your hard earned wages. Don’t buy an eTag. Clog the system. If you feel the call of your conscience not to pay then consider listening to your conscience. Many well-known people in our great country have already committed to exactly this.
If you wait till later you may find that you waited too long. All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing; now is the time to rise up and act. We can act in a peaceful yet forceful manner to send a message to the powers that be that we will not be intimidated into complying with unjust legislation that will harm the poor, impoverish the middle class and make the public infrastructure we’ve all paid for a privatised service controlled by a government that decides in their sole discretion who gets a free pass and who doesn’t. Economic Apartheid under a new Nationalist regime.
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 01:20:12 pm
I think whats funny is to see a bunch of ppl whine about a system from their keyboards .....whining or having lil stickers on ones vehicle or even a number plate is not resistance man....this is just waiting to be slaughtered..be proactive , be vigourous , be visible ....this lil attitude of not buying an etag and waiting for the man to take you to court is not resistance ...non ...it is just hiding away...

if you going to resist, then resist and do it boldly ,taking big steps...block the highways like the taxis, refuse to pay taxes, refuse to use fuel , refuse to use the roads, become militant and burn the gantries,,,,now that is resistance..the whte man approach to resistance does not work , this is Africa ...the white man's law abiding approach she not work here ....

so get out there, take your personal time to make a statement on weekends ......oh and remember , whining here on the internet don't count hey...I see loads of whining all over the place on the internet but very little action ......I saw vavi and the cronies try ...I even saw a very civilised an orderly bike procession ....but resistance, non...none of that...... vote the buggers out , do something positive instead of aiming venom at those that have bought e tags ....fuck it man ...if you guys feel this strongly about it then do something more than just ridiculing an name calling an acting all passively..

lets all call ppl who have bought e tags Pussy ...oh hell yeah that's gonna get Sanral to notice and change their minds....

Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 01:26:46 pm
What is sad is to see the real ANC/black africa whiners becoming wimps in the face of adversary only to ridicule those who stand up for their rights. 

the first step to resist is not to buy an eTag. Actually its the ONLY action required.   Something some refuse to see, or dont have the conviction to do.     
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 01:28:20 pm
What is sad is to see the real ANC/black africa whiners becoming wimps in the face of adversary only to ridicule those who stand up for their rights.  

the first step to resist is not to buy an eTag. Actually its the ONLY action required.   Something some refuse to see, or dont have the conviction to do.    

u call this adversary...nee fok ou .......

you whities been living the life of luxury far to long if you consider this adversary

by the way , I am not ridiculing you okes at all and apologise if you see it as such....... but if you going to resist then resist boldly not meekly..refusing to buy an etag and opting to pay when summonsed/ordered to is not resistance.. that's financial suicide
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 01:31:38 pm
You dont understand things like a 'tipping point' etc ?  Frans Ferdinand ito WW1? 

I think you understand comeletely, you are a clever (ish >:D) oke - but you lack guts, or are just stirring?
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 01:35:35 pm
You dont understand things like a 'tipping point' etc ?  Frans Ferdinand ito WW1? 

I think you understand comeletely, you are a clever (ish >:D) oke - but you lack guts, or are just stirring?

the current I refuse to buy an etag has not worked, why cling to something that has not worked....its madness to think its going to work in the future if it has failed to work up to now...give me something to believe in ...be bold
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 01:41:03 pm
You dont understand things like a 'tipping point' etc ?  Frans Ferdinand ito WW1? 

I think you understand comeletely, you are a clever (ish >:D) oke - but you lack guts, or are just stirring?

the current I refuse to buy an etag has not worked, why cling to something that has not worked....its madness to think its going to work in the future if it has failed to work up to now...give me something to believe in ...be bold

How exactly did it not work - my fark, we are on day one.  Jeez dude, do you smoke stuff?
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 01:44:26 pm
You dont understand things like a 'tipping point' etc ?  Frans Ferdinand ito WW1?  

I think you understand comeletely, you are a clever (ish >:D) oke - but you lack guts, or are just stirring?

the current I refuse to buy an etag has not worked, why cling to something that has not worked....its madness to think its going to work in the future if it has failed to work up to now...give me something to believe in ...be bold

How exactly did it not work - my fark, we are on day one.  Jeez dude, do you smoke stuff?

Day 1......really ....

we are day probably about day 1000 now , the passive resistance of not buying an etag has not made one lil eenie weeenie bit of difference ..the delays were not caused by refusal to buy an etag but by OUTA's court hearings...and OUTA ran out of money hey....seems you okes were not prepared to fund them anymore ,....

but if you think we are on day 1 then the resistance is doomed ....
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: Frog on December 03, 2013, 01:49:55 pm
It makes me sick hearing on the radio that there are lines of people at e-toll kiosks patiently waiting to buy their e-tags. Spineless
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 01:52:26 pm
We will see - and please tell you kid the hero stories one day of how you and the 'okes' defeated the monster :imaposer:

Tell straight - daddy lacked guts and got his etaG.  Explain it in as much detail and with as much conviction as you are doing here.  

Then, dont vote DA.  Why.  Vote for the party YOU support via eTolls.  its mos proudly brought by the ANC.  Dont stop there, go flat out in you support of government corruption.  Give the gravy train some ecoals :imaposer:

The feeble will inherit the earth :laughing4: after all
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 01:55:28 pm
We will see - and please tell you kid the hero stories one day of how you and the 'okes' defeated the monster :imaposer:

Tell straight - daddy lacked guts and got his etaG.  Explain it in as much detail and with as much conviction as you are doing here.  

Then, dont vote DA.  Why.  Vote for the party YOU support via eTolls.  its mos proudly brought by the ANC.  Dont stop there, go flat out in you support of government corruption.  Give the gravy train some ecoals :imaposer:

The feeble will inherit the earth :laughing4: after all

if these are the kind of hero stories you telling yr kids about what a hero daddy is by refusing to buy an etag..well that is heroic ...oh hell yes..... that is....esp when admitting that you will pay when ordered to do so by a court....

yr kids may look at you funny though esp when u tell them that by refusing to buy an etag an being the hero you paid 5 times more plus plus ....

that's fuckign heroic I reckon......
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: bud500 on December 03, 2013, 01:57:14 pm
ICM, billing only follows from the start of tolling, which is today. E-tag is one way to get billed, so not getting tagged will only start having an effect when billing starts...

Focus and try looking away from yourself in the mirror....on the high horse...
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:00:33 pm
ICM, billing only follows from the start of tolling, which is today. E-tag is one way to get billed, so not getting tagged will only start having an effect when billing starts...

Focus and try looking away from yourself in the mirror....on the high horse...

you underestimate yr enemy....you think these scenarios have not been played out ...

I may have an etag yes, but I have made a decision to not use the highways ..that's my resistance ...imagine the impact of having empty highways without a soul on them ......you think that might make the monstor fail....hell yes cos then its defeated by its own rules
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 02:03:58 pm
so why have an etag if you are not using the toll roads?  Your logic astounds me.  you dont need an etag, since you dont use the toll roads :imaposer:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:05:58 pm
so why have an etag if you are not using the toll roads?  Your logic astounds me.  you dont need an etag, since you dont use the toll roads :imaposer:

you got me there ..... I have no sound reason ....maybe just to give you guys needle .... :biggrin:



Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: bud500 on December 03, 2013, 02:07:44 pm
so why have an etag if you are not using the toll roads?  Your logic astounds me.  you dont need an etag, since you dont use the toll roads :imaposer:

you got me there ..... I have no sound reason ....maybe just to give you guys needle .... :biggrin:





 ;D I hope you didn't think they'll reach the same symbol status as Live Strong armbands... :thumleft:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: Frog on December 03, 2013, 02:08:43 pm
Day 1 without etags has absolutelty no impact. It is day 2,3,4,5........ when 500,000 bills need to be posted and debt collectors paid etc. etc
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 02:21:11 pm
so why have an etag if you are not using the toll roads?  Your logic astounds me.  you dont need an etag, since you dont use the toll roads :imaposer:

you got me there ..... I have no sound reason ....maybe just to give you guys needle .... :biggrin:





bloody troll :biggrin:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:26:40 pm
Day 1 without etags has absolutelty no impact. It is day 2,3,4,5........ when 500,000 bills need to be posted and debt collectors paid etc. etc

this is where we differ ...you resistance fighters believe this will topple the system , I choose to believe differently that this will not topple the system ....so instead of paying much much more I choose to etag....

that is the only difference really and the fact that I have chosen to not believe the rhetoric has resulted in much name calling , luckily I am thick skinned and stupid otherwise I may have bee nreally upset and asked the mods to ban you all

the failure to get etags will not topple the system imho , it will just cost you more ...if you want to topple the system don't use the highways, initiate real resistance strategies, go to church more I dint know but use strategies that will result in change .....current strategy is just going to cost you more ....

the height of resistance ihave seen to date is an orderly motorcycle procession on the ring road ....more than once ..mr alli was severly initimidated I tell you and the ANC collected all the taxes from all the petrol that was used....they were laughing at these umhlungu's protesting while paying taxes to the govt...
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 02:33:43 pm
on what do you build your believe.  You must admit if the vast majority of people dont comply, the system will fail.  So by your own adherence, you are actually making the system work.  kind of like a self-for filling prophesy?
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:38:36 pm
on what do you build your believe.  You must admit if the vast majority of people dont comply, the system will fail.  So by your own adherence, you are actually making the system work.  kind of like a self-for filling prophesy?

I am not convinced that this will result in failure of the system...it will just make em cleverer at collecting the revenue .... the locust is cleverer than the credit given

Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 02:40:10 pm
So you dont believe that if they dont get money in - the system will collapse?  Why not?
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: Chukudeer on December 03, 2013, 02:40:53 pm
For ICM's benefit, I will post this here as well....

I think this will go very much like the AARTO fines. 32% of people fall for the "50% discount" and the intimidation at the roadblocks. This is sufficient for JMPD to make big money. They don't bother to follow procedures with these fines and in very, very few cases follow up on outstanding fines as this is costly.

So the 32% that pay subsidises those that dump the fines in the dustbin.

Same will happen with e-tolls. the 40% that purchased tags will bring in sufficient funds to keep the fat cats happy, you have people like ICM that will happily pay and pay and pay..... because it is the right thing to do. Good for you ICM and thank you for keeping the system off my back   :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:43:32 pm
For ICM's benefit, I will post this here as well....

I think this will go very much like the AARTO fines. 32% of people fall for the "50% discount" and the intimidation at the roadblocks. This is sufficient for JMPD to make big money. They don't bother to follow procedures with these fines and in very, very few cases follow up on outstanding fines as this is costly.

So the 32% that pay subsidises those that dump the fines in the dustbin.

Same will happen with e-tolls. the 40% that purchased tags will bring in sufficient funds to keep the fat cats happy, you have people like ICM that will happily pay and pay and pay..... because it is the right thing to do. Good for you ICM and thank you for keeping the system off my back   :thumleft: :thumleft:

you know what will happen if this occurs, those with etags will cancel their deals which they are permitted to do..sanral will not an cannot allow that to happen so they will go after 100% of the ppl...
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: Chukudeer on December 03, 2013, 02:45:31 pm
Nope, they have your detail.....you agreed to their contract  :laughing4: I did not, and don't intend to. Try and cancel....they have your details!!!

You will pay and pay and pay....... :thumleft: Thanks again for complying so nicely  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:47:29 pm
Nope, they have your detail.....you agreed to their contract  :laughing4:

You will pay and pay and pay....... :thumleft: Thanks again for complying so nicely  :thumleft:

at the very least you must know yr facts ...this is one of the great myths perpetuated ....

one is free at anytime to dissolve ones contract with Sanral an revert to a pay when they summons you approach... brush up on the CPA
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: KiLRoy on December 03, 2013, 02:49:52 pm
As Chamberlain said - Hitler is a nice chap and has nothing against the British (or something along those lines)  :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: RobC on December 03, 2013, 02:50:58 pm
Nope, they have your detail.....you agreed to their contract  :laughing4:

You will pay and pay and pay....... :thumleft: Thanks again for complying so nicely  :thumleft:

at the very least you must know yr facts ...this is one of the great myths perpetuated ....

one is free at anytime to dissolve ones contract with Sanral an revert to a pay when they summons you approach... brush up on the CPA
The CPA also protects one from being criminalised for non payment afaik.
The dishonourable minister has threatened Joe Citizen with a criminal record for non payment. :deal:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:53:18 pm
Nope, they have your detail.....you agreed to their contract  :laughing4:

You will pay and pay and pay....... :thumleft: Thanks again for complying so nicely  :thumleft:

at the very least you must know yr facts ...this is one of the great myths perpetuated ....

one is free at anytime to dissolve ones contract with Sanral an revert to a pay when they summons you approach... brush up on the CPA
The CPA also protects one from being criminalised for non payment afaik.
The dishonourable minister has threatened Joe Citizen with a criminal record for non payment. :deal:

agree , but that is due said ministers lack of understanding of the law ....believe me the sanral beast has some top class lawyers in their pocket...
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: RobC on December 03, 2013, 02:55:25 pm
agree , but that is due said ministers lack of understanding of the law ....believe me the sanral beast has some top class lawyers in their pocket...
Only while they are being paid, the moment the money dries up they will depart. >:D
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: J-dog on December 03, 2013, 02:57:57 pm
so why have an etag if you are not using the toll roads?  Your logic astounds me.  you dont need an etag, since you dont use the toll roads :imaposer:

you got me there ..... I have no sound reason ....maybe just to give you guys needle .... :biggrin:





bloody troll :biggrin:

i think ICM is just causing shite. or at least i hope so. i'd like to take a ride up to jhb, get a R2.80 e-bill, and then fight it all the way to the con-court  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 03, 2013, 02:58:28 pm
agree , but that is due said ministers lack of understanding of the law ....believe me the sanral beast has some top class lawyers in their pocket...
Only while they are being paid, the moment the money dries up they will depart. >:D

I have met with members of their legal team ...clever okes .... and know their stuff .... most were not saffers but Austrians ....this organisation behind sanral re not stupid hey , kind of like FIFA behind the world cup organising committee making sure the locals get it right
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: RobC on December 03, 2013, 03:00:28 pm
agree , but that is due said ministers lack of understanding of the law ....believe me the sanral beast has some top class lawyers in their pocket...
Only while they are being paid, the moment the money dries up they will depart. >:D

I have met with members of their legal team ...clever okes .... and know their stuff .... most were not saffers but Austrians ....this organisation behind sanral re not stupid hey , kind of like FIFA behind the world cup organising committee making sure the locals get it right
They must be very busy here... Portugal needs them! :sip:
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: Frog on December 03, 2013, 03:01:26 pm
I think Ice Cream Man is winding us up >:D
Title: Re: Hard hitting article
Post by: RobC on December 03, 2013, 03:05:18 pm
Interesting... if true it means Kapsh want to at least break even by then.
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/gauteng-etoll-operations-up-for-grabs-in-2018 (http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/gauteng-etoll-operations-up-for-grabs-in-2018)

"The contract with ETC stretches over five years from the start of e-tolls, after which it will be put on open tender again. With e-tolls set to start before the end of the year, that means the contract may be up for grabs by 2018."

Then this gem from SANRAL site;

http://www.nra.co.za/live/content.php?Item_ID=4527 (http://www.nra.co.za/live/content.php?Item_ID=4527)
27 May 2011

TOLL REVENUE SCAM

SANRAL has recently become aware of a scam relating to SANRAL toll roads and toll revenue. A certain individual has allegedly informed members of the public that he was facilitating a deal in terms of which he would obtain a portion of the N1 highway in Gauteng (between Malibongwe and Beyers Naude roads) from SANRAL. Members of the public were invited to invest money with this person for an attractive return. The return on investment would be based on a percentage of the toll revenue to be collected on that specific section of the national road.

SANRAL would like to categorically state that this scheme, or any other scheme of this nature, is fraudulent and there will never be any investment opportunities with respect to toll revenue collected on the national toll road network. SANRAL is not permitted to lease its roads to third parties.

The only investment opportunity available to potential investors on SANRAL toll roads is with regard to the bonds issued by SANRAL regularly, to fund its toll road network. This is done through our broker banks, ABSA and RMB.

A criminal case has been opened in this regard with the South African Police Services. The case number is Fairlands CAS 10/3/2011.