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General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 01:05:54 pm

Title: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 01:05:54 pm
Well ICM, you were laughing your ass off for my statement yesterday.  Seems a few more share my sentiment.  Even using the tipping point word which you struggle to understand.  Remember - you heard it here first....

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204)
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 01:06:50 pm
Cosatu is still keen to fight

http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/South-Africa/E-toll-fight-will-continue-Cosatu-20131204 (http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/South-Africa/E-toll-fight-will-continue-Cosatu-20131204)
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 01:18:02 pm
Well ICM, you were laughing your ass off for my statement yesterday.  Seems a few more share my sentiment.  Even using the tipping point word which you struggle to understand.  Remember - you heard it here first....

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204)

nothing here worth noting , millions have shared yr view regarding etoll, but they here and they go beep beep...so merely sharing of views makes no difference ,surely by now this must be understood....

its when ppl take positive action that things change ........

Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Dwerg on December 04, 2013, 01:29:19 pm
yr tpng is drvn me fkn nuts.

What are you 12?
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 01:43:35 pm
Well ICM, you were laughing your ass off for my statement yesterday.  Seems a few more share my sentiment.  Even using the tipping point word which you struggle to understand.  Remember - you heard it here first....

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204)

nothing here worth noting , millions have shared yr view regarding etoll, but they here and they go beep beep...so merely sharing of views makes no difference ,surely by now this must be understood....

its when ppl take positive action that things change ........



You underestimate the power of social media my friend.

You also underestimate the influence of the middleclass in Gauteng - who have access to the internet.  Weird that you underestimate the impact of the internet? ;)  I dont :thumleft:
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 01:45:40 pm
Well ICM, you were laughing your ass off for my statement yesterday.  Seems a few more share my sentiment.  Even using the tipping point word which you struggle to understand.  Remember - you heard it here first....

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204 (http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/A-practical-approach-to-the-post-democratic-era-20131204)

nothing here worth noting , millions have shared yr view regarding etoll, but they here and they go beep beep...so merely sharing of views makes no difference ,surely by now this must be understood....

its when ppl take positive action that things change ........



You underestimate the power of social media my friend.

You also underestimate the influence of the middleclass in Gauteng - who have access to the internet.  Weird that you underestimate the impact of the internet? ;)  I dont :thumleft:

 :biggrin:  lol ..... not so much underestimating the power of the internet as right estimating the power of the middle class to actually do anything ...

Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Go Big on December 04, 2013, 01:48:46 pm
The SA middle class still have it too good! Its slowly changing but at the moment its still to lekker! They can be squeezed allot more.

Die os is nog nie heltemal moeg nie.
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 01:53:55 pm
The power of the middle class lies in the fact that its pretty multiracial.  Something the ANC hates.  Middle class have decent access to information.  Social media not only facilitates information sharing, but it also helps forming opinions.   Gauteng has a relatively large % middle class voters.  I see an bad moon rising for the ANC.....all thanx to resistance to etolls.  So laugh some more....
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Veldbrand on December 04, 2013, 01:55:10 pm
 ;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 01:56:03 pm
The SA middle class still have it too good! Its slowly changing but at the moment its still to lekker! They can be squeezed allot more.

Die os is nog nie heltemal moeg nie.

this I think is the problem.....the good life is still too good..we are also very accustomed to driving in our luxury cars an 4 x 4 bakkies all by ourselves and refuse to change this behaviour (I take the fact we do not have effective public transport) . fact is we should be car pooling more, using scooters or efficient vehicles, taxis ,more efficient forms of transport...

I bet of those "claimed" 985 000 cars that went through the gantry at William Nichol there were less cars with more than 2 occupants than cars with etags...

I don't think the middle class will result in the failure of SANRAL , we are too law abiding...to don't rock the boat ...to conformist

but lets see in Arpil, if the DA win Gauteng then I scheme we going to be rip roaring away

@veldbrandt...resist I must...but the pull of the bait was too strong  :biggrin:
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 01:58:00 pm
Well logically speaking - only the middle class can stop etolls ---- they have cars.
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: GRIM on December 04, 2013, 01:59:09 pm
yr tpng is drvn me fkn nuts.

What are you 12?
+1... You used to be able to string a coherent sentance together...
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 02:01:10 pm
He is drinking hard tac now that he is saving so much money with his etags :imaposer:

ICM - we must do a comparison of expenses soon?    :imaposer:  You are already minus R50 :imaposer:
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 02:04:12 pm
He is drink hard tac now that he is saving so much money with his etags :imaposer:

ICM - we must do a comparison of expenses soon?    :imaposer:  You are already minus R50 :imaposer:

you know that brings me to another point, why have etags at all ...why not just register yr number plate and use the same principal ...I don't understand the need for an etag with the software they have in situ already.

but yes I am minus 50 bucks  :biggrin: and in all likelihood that's where it will remain until u guys ensure I get a full refund  :biggrin:  then I buy beer at bash 2014
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 02:04:49 pm
If the DA has any brains, it will draft and push for a bill governing tolling in SA.  Incl rules about collection, off shore interests, transparency etc etc

But alas - its easier being a kef dog
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 02:07:19 pm
O-man, on a calmer note - why did you get a etag if you dont intend to drive on the toll roads?  seriously
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 02:10:34 pm
O-man, on a calmer note - why did you get a etag if you dont intend to drive on the toll roads?  seriously

because on the odd occasion I may have to use the highways when I need to save time or for emergencies......also my wife uses my car on the odd occasion an I don't want her to have shit....

I have registered my car.... my bike I will not register and will take evasive action at the gantries to ensure I do not get a bill ....ever .....
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: alanB on December 04, 2013, 02:18:38 pm
Great article  :thumleft:

Quote
The politics of effective pilfering

December 4 2013 at 09:57am

Comment on this story
IOL pn kunene

INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPERS

Patriotic Alliance president Gayton McKenzie and secretary-general Kenny Kunene during the partys launch in Paarl. Photo: Ian Landsberg

If I were a criminal in South Africa, I would see politics as a new way of doing business, says Fikile-Ntsikelelo Moya.

Pretoria - Gangland legend has it that when the FBI asked America’s most-prolific bank robber Willie Sutton why he robbed banks, he replied: “That’s where the money is.”

News that the Patriotic Alliance, a new party made up of former gangsters, a bank robber and a fraudster has been launched reminded me of Sutton’s memorable retort.

If you are looking at ways of enriching yourself quickly and easily, you have to fish where the fish are. In our country, that place is the public purse.

It is not the first time we have seen gangsters look to politics as an area of interest.

A few years ago, the northern Pretoria regional conference of the ANC was brought into disarray when two groups claiming to be the legitimate structure held separate conferences and each elected leaders.

Among those who claimed they were the legitimate ANC structure were men who had been arrested for a few heists and were themselves friends and relatives of some of the most-wanted men in the country.

For the record, I acknowledge that some of the leaders of the Patriotic Alliance have served their time and I do not have any basis to suggest they are still criminals.

I also do not wish to imply that anyone with a criminal past has nothing to contribute to the country and its politics. My Catholic upbringing taught me that every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.

But I do imagine that if I were a criminal in South Africa, I would see politics as a new way of doing business.

The business model is perfect. Sticking with Sutton’s theory, politics is where the money is. Big money.

The auditor-general’s last report told us that as much as R32 billion of state money was lost, misspent or not properly accounted for. Surely some of it was stolen. What is more, Minister of Public Service and Administration Lindiwe Sisulu admitted there had not been a single conviction of anyone guilty of flouting the Public Finance Management Act.


Now imagine what all this means to an intrepid criminal.

Thirty-two thousand million of rands available to steal if you play your cards right. And, as Sisulu has said, the chances of being caught are close to nil.

In the unlikely event you are caught, you can always accuse those who catch you of being racists (if white), ultra leftists (if black), or “pushing an agenda”, without needing to explain what that agenda is or why it should not be pushed.

If all that fails, you make an apology “to those who might have been let down” and continue with your life as before.

Unlike in your previous occupation, where Sutton said a gun was necessary because “you can’t rob a bank on charm and personality”, a criminal-turned-politician will no longer need a gun to pull a heist or spill blood.

Yes, a few people might die as a result of your actions or omissions, but the link will always be too tenuous to make you lose any sleep.

Instead of arranging for the best driver for your gang, you can get anyone with a licence to drive you as fast as they want provided they have a flashing blue light.

Another beneficial factor for a South African politician is that the issues are so clear-cut.

You merely have to show your unhappiness at the levels of unemployment, inequality and poverty.

When speaking to black people, warn them about the boers returning to take away their grant money, and when with whites, thank them for contributing to making the new South Africa what it is and spew something about Nelson Mandela’s opposition to white or black domination.

Around this time of the year, you rock up at a public meeting and mouth platitudes about the evil of hurting women and children. You can urge young people to stay in school and warn them about the futility of crime and how it might affect foreign direct investment.

In a phrase, perfect the art of talking about meat to butchers, bread to bakers and pies to both.

If you get your name in newspapers enough times and become part of the ruling party’s leadership, you could even be invited to be a shareholder in a huge company where you will earn millions of rands in exchange for having your name on the list of directors.

For this money, you do not need to threaten to separate the body and soul of anyone and merely have to make a call or two in case there are procedural or legal bottlenecks that might affect your new company’s project of making super profits.

The latest developments in the body politic suggest to me that the criminals are at last reclaiming their business from the politicians.

A patriotic citizenry should reclaim their country from both.

* Fikile-Ntsikelelo Moya is executive editor of Pretoria News.
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 02:23:03 pm
O-man, on a calmer note - why did you get a etag if you dont intend to drive on the toll roads?  seriously

because on the odd occasion I may have to use the highways when I need to save time or for emergencies......also my wife uses my car on the odd occasion an I don't want her to have shit....

I have registered my car.... my bike I will not register and will take evasive action at the gantries to ensure I do not get a bill ....ever .....

fair enough, but surely if its a case of 'the odd occasion', then the extra money will have a ver small impact?

To be honest - I very seldom use the freeways, but for the sake of solidarity I will run up a bill to give them the finger
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 03:31:06 pm
you know that brings me to another point, why have etags at all ...why not just register yr number plate and use the same principal ...I don't understand the need for an etag with the software they have in situ already.
The OCR software is not really real time, it can be done but will take much longer for the money to be collected the old hard paper way. The TAG is a faster and more accurate system as it deducts from PREPAID monies already lying in SANRAL coffers. Each beep frees a few bucks to blow on Kapsh and overheads.
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 04:23:58 pm
you know that brings me to another point, why have etags at all ...why not just register yr number plate and use the same principal ...I don't understand the need for an etag with the software they have in situ already.
The OCR software is not really real time, it can be done but will take much longer for the money to be collected the old hard paper way. The TAG is a faster and more accurate system as it deducts from PREPAID monies already lying in SANRAL coffers. Each beep frees a few bucks to blow on Kapsh and overheads.

you could still have this in place with number plates ie by loading airtime onto your plate .... same principles just no tag....its what they doing anyway....if you think about it.
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 04, 2013, 04:32:00 pm
O-man, on a calmer note - why did you get a etag if you dont intend to drive on the toll roads?  seriously

because on the odd occasion I may have to use the highways when I need to save time or for emergencies......also my wife uses my car on the odd occasion an I don't want her to have shit....

I have registered my car.... my bike I will not register and will take evasive action at the gantries to ensure I do not get a bill ....ever .....

fair enough, but surely if its a case of 'the odd occasion', then the extra money will have a ver small impact?

To be honest - I very seldom use the freeways, but for the sake of solidarity I will run up a bill to give them the finger

you not wrong there, in my case it would make very little difference between being tagged or not as I intend not using the highways at all.... if ever I have to it would be relatively very little money anyway.

I think ultimately I do not see the traditional law abiding citizen of ZA's method of resistance actually working so bought a tag. and so far what I see has not made me change my mind... every one is up in arms about it, everyone is moaning about it , everyone is pissed off but I see very little action being taken ..case n point is the thread here about protesting....hundreds an hundreds of views and very view committed ppl to actually taking time out to do something about....we too lacksadaisial....

if it is to be toppled we must behave outside of the lawful paradigm , pics were shown here of the gantry in france being burned etc etc and that requires steadfastness by all and from all quarters, something I have not seen saffers do very well as a group.....

remember avoid the roads to party this evening
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: alanB on December 04, 2013, 04:37:34 pm
More news, just like every other day of how the ANC just continuously gobbles up tax funds for its own purposes.  I think its so common people dont even notice anymore.

Until we start resisting its always going to be easier for them to dream up new ways to collect more money than put a stop to this sort of thing:

Quote
ANC funds ‘used for wrong purpose’

December 4 2013 at 12:04pm
By Natasha Bezuidenhout

Comment on this story
Copy of IOL pic sep16 rsa bank notes

Reuters

File photo

Cape Town - Fired ANC parliamentary staffers have claimed in the Labour Court that the party diverted statutory funds to finance its 2009 election campaign.

At the time the ANC caucus retrenched 89 staff members.

Fifteen employees took the party to court for alleged unfair dismissal.

On Tuesday, advocate Alec Freund, representing the staffers, questioned former ANC chief whip Nyami Booi in the Labour Court on statutory funds allegedly diverted to pay Oryx Media a total of R7.4 million to, among other things, assist with the party’s election campaign.

R15.6m was allegedly also diverted for accommodation and travelling.

Freund told the court that party constituency allowances and party administration funds were not supposed to be used for election and advertising.

“The funds were used for graffiti, floppy hats, airfares and hotels,” said Freund.


Booi said it would have been brought to his attention if the funds had been diverted and “that he was not aware of it”.

Freund submitted in court that Booi may be party to yet another offence.

In 2009, Booi was one of 31 MPs who pleaded guilty to abusing parliamentary travel warrants in the so-called Travelgate saga.

At the time he was fined R50 000 (or five years’ jail), and given until January 2014 to pay the money in monthly instalments of R1 000.

Booi told the court that Freund did not know what he was talking about and had no knowledge of how Parliament’s system runs.

“He doesn’t know what he’s talking about, he never worked for Parliament and I don’t want to engage with someone who has never worked for Parliament and doesn’t know how its systems work.”

Booi denied any knowledge of the figures spent on travelling expenditure which included hotel accommodation, flights and rental cars.

The case continues.

natasha.bezuidenhout@inl.co.za
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: punisher on December 04, 2013, 05:53:13 pm
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Mzee on December 04, 2013, 06:03:21 pm
 :imaposer:
yr tpng is drvn me fkn nuts.

What are you 12?
+1... You used to be able to string a coherent sentance together...

 :imaposer: Eeeh and what happened?
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: KiLRoy on December 04, 2013, 06:08:25 pm
O-man, on a calmer note - why did you get a etag if you dont intend to drive on the toll roads?  seriously

because on the odd occasion I may have to use the highways when I need to save time or for emergencies......also my wife uses my car on the odd occasion an I don't want her to have shit....

I have registered my car.... my bike I will not register and will take evasive action at the gantries to ensure I do not get a bill ....ever .....

fair enough, but surely if its a case of 'the odd occasion', then the extra money will have a ver small impact?

To be honest - I very seldom use the freeways, but for the sake of solidarity I will run up a bill to give them the finger

you not wrong there, in my case it would make very little difference between being tagged or not as I intend not using the highways at all.... if ever I have to it would be relatively very little money anyway.

I think ultimately I do not see the traditional law abiding citizen of ZA's method of resistance actually working so bought a tag. and so far what I see has not made me change my mind... every one is up in arms about it, everyone is moaning about it , everyone is pissed off but I see very little action being taken ..case n point is the thread here about protesting....hundreds an hundreds of views and very view committed ppl to actually taking time out to do something about....we too lacksadaisial....

if it is to be toppled we must behave outside of the lawful paradigm , pics were shown here of the gantry in france being burned etc etc and that requires steadfastness by all and from all quarters, something I have not seen saffers do very well as a group.....

remember avoid the roads to party this evening

You make a very valid point about the law abiding way may not stop the beast, but it still does not explain your etag?

But i do see use for it.  Clock a few R on the tag, then ask them to cancel it...lets see if they do it, and if they can still get to your money after you cancelled and if you occur more cost?

Iow use your tag as a g-pig?
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: RobC on December 04, 2013, 07:19:59 pm
you could still have this in place with number plates ie by loading airtime onto your plate .... same principles just no tag....its what they doing anyway....if you think about it.
and your line of work is what?
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 06:17:14 am
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha

Punisher , if your contribution to the struggle is insulting me well then we fucked mate......

lets at the very least try an remove emotion out of this and this with rational minds....but if insulting me makes you feel better then by all means please continue.


Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 06:18:23 am
you could still have this in place with number plates ie by loading airtime onto your plate .... same principles just no tag....its what they doing anyway....if you think about it.
and your line of work is what?

little bit of this, little bit of that ......quasi legal stuff...
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: RobC on December 05, 2013, 09:58:22 am
you could still have this in place with number plates ie by loading airtime onto your plate .... same principles just no tag....its what they doing anyway....if you think about it.
and your line of work is what?

little bit of this, little bit of that ......quasi legal stuff...
then refrain from commenting on how E-Tolling works, you clearly have no knowledge of how these systems work. :sip:
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 10:25:36 am
you could still have this in place with number plates ie by loading airtime onto your plate .... same principles just no tag....its what they doing anyway....if you think about it.
and your line of work is what?

little bit of this, little bit of that ......quasi legal stuff...
then refrain from commenting on how E-Tolling works, you clearly have no knowledge of how these systems work. :sip:

Aargh rob don't be like that hey...

So if you can't actually clear up the question why u even comment at all hey,fact is with modern tech you don't need an etag .....number plate recognition linked to an account would suffice....

But you welcome to show me the error of my ways hey...
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Bundu on December 05, 2013, 11:31:11 am
Chris Chameleon on e-tolls political implications

Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 01:25:32 pm
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha

Punishe
r , if your contribution to the struggle is insulting me well then we fucked mate......

lets at the very least try an remove emotion out of this and this with rational minds....but if insulting me makes you feel better then by all means please continue.




Your kidding right !!!
You feel insulted by what you said !!!!

Geeeez man. Grow a pair , only you can control what you say and do
 :imaposer:
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 02:04:34 pm
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha

Punishe
r , if your contribution to the struggle is insulting me well then we fucked mate......

lets at the very least try an remove emotion out of this and this with rational minds....but if insulting me makes you feel better then by all means please continue.




Your kidding right !!!
You feel insulted by what you said !!!!

Geeeez man. Grow a pair , only you can control what you say and do
 :imaposer:

yip, we fucked as I thought, its far worse than I thought possible  .... ::) ...the resistance movement hurls insults while the gantries rake in their cash
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: laurika on December 05, 2013, 02:10:52 pm
maybe this has been posted before, but i just received it from the AA.:



e-Tolls – dangerous precedents have been set
5 December 2013:
 
SANRAL e-Tolling is now live, but what this really means is that a number of precedents have now been set for urban tolling to continue across other parts of Gauteng, and into the rest of the country, effectively leaving the road user with fewer non-tolled alternatives.
 
The Automobile Association of South Africa (AA) points out that the e-Toll debate is taking shape around the City of Cape Town, with speculation that Durban may be next on the e-Toll list. Although the Minister of Transport mentioned that Gauteng is the economic hub of the country, and therefore required much-needed road infrastructure upgrades funded by tolls, it is unclear what justification there will be for e-Tolling for the rest of the country.
 
SANRAL can no longer continue with its scare tactics or attempt to hide facts from the public. The fact is that non-registered motorists who do not pay their toll fees within a seven day grace period will not be prosecuted, but will instead pay a higher alternate user rate as determined by SANRAL. This underscores the conflicting and unclear communications from SANRAL and the Department of Transport relating to the intended prosecution of so-called defaulting motorists, including a grossly undefined debt collection process.
 
The implications of large numbers of motorists waiting to pay, or refusing to pay outright, will result in an administrative nightmare for the e-Tolling system, including the negative impact on SANRAL’s cash flow. Although the Minister of Transport has claimed that “the government cares for its people” and therefore lowered the cost per kilometre for e-Tolling, the South African motorist has emerged as the ultimate loser.
 
Massive public rejection of the system, the persistence by OUTA to fight the e-Tolling battle, and the AA’s petition submitted in 2011 with 52,000 signatures, have clearly demonstrated that the majority of people wanted e-Tolling scrapped in favour of an alternate funding method. The low uptake of e-Tags is further evidence of public rejection of the system.
 
A 2007 study conducted by the AA quantified the costs of traffic congestion. Despite the Minister’s continual referral to this report, the study did not support the notion of e-Tolling, but rather proved that the cost of long-overdue freeway improvements would negatively affect Gauteng’s economy if not addressed.
 
The Minister also mentioned the R150 billion road infrastructure backlog, with no apparent means to finance the current problem. The AA continues to question where the current revenue collected from fuel sales, which is supposed to support road infrastructure development and maintenance, goes. The AA again insists on full disclosure by government on how this tax revenue from fuel sales is actually being spent as it’s clearly not being used as intended.
 
It is now at the discretion of every road user to decide whether or not to register with SANRAL and pay for e-Tolls. If you don’t buy an e-Tag, you are not breaking the law and cannot be arrested for not owning an e-Tag.Press Room
 
AA Rescue Service
 
Commentary
 
Press Releases
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Lynn on December 05, 2013, 02:13:41 pm
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha

Punishe
r , if your contribution to the struggle is insulting me well then we fucked mate......

lets at the very least try an remove emotion out of this and this with rational minds....but if insulting me makes you feel better then by all means please continue.




Your kidding right !!!
You feel insulted by what you said !!!!

Geeeez man. Grow a pair , only you can control what you say and do
 :imaposer:

yip, we fucked as I thought, its far worse than I thought possible  .... ::) ...the resistance movement hurls insults while the gantries rake in their cash

Funny that ICM, trolling around clearly trying to get a rise, making unsubstantiated comments about WD's and their "gooses" allegedly, but hating the table turn.   :lol8:

Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 02:31:09 pm
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha

Punishe
r , if your contribution to the struggle is insulting me well then we fucked mate......

lets at the very least try an remove emotion out of this and this with rational minds....but if insulting me makes you feel better then by all means please continue.




Your kidding right !!!
You feel insulted by what you said !!!!

Geeeez man. Grow a pair , only you can control what you say and do
 :imaposer:

yip, we fucked as I thought, its far worse than I thought possible  .... ::) ...the resistance movement hurls insults while the gantries rake in their cash

Funny that ICM, trolling around clearly trying to get a rise, making unsubstantiated comments about WD's and their "gooses" allegedly, but hating the table turn.   :lol8:



lynn, you know it was tongue in cheek right, a mere quip following comments on another thread about dirtyxt's ...oh if I have to explain...

but please if you took my post as an insult I apologise profusely.... for it was not my intention to insult anyone .....

I am the spineless twatwaffle in the post , surely that was completely obvious, it was a joke ..oh dear ....
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 02:53:37 pm
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha

Punishe
r , if your contribution to the struggle is insulting me well then we fucked mate......

lets at the very least try an remove emotion out of this and this with rational minds....but if insulting me makes you feel better then by all means please continue.




Your kidding right !!!
You feel insulted by what you said !!!!

Geeeez man. Grow a pair , only you can control what you say and do
 :imaposer:

yip, we fucked as I thought, its far worse than I thought possible  .... ::) ...the resistance movement hurls insults while the gantries rake in their cash

Bwahahaha. Your playground arguments (turnaround) is funny. What u have been spouted as insults etc n I have found quite funny , and then your own contradiction , that you find as insulting when it was commented on is funny
Thanx
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 02:59:09 pm
;)
but seriously ouens , I will refrain from posting in these hallowed threads about resistance and defcont's numbers ............................so take this as my last post ...............
:deal:


 hmmmm  spineless even to his own rules  bwahahahahahhaha

Punishe
r , if your contribution to the struggle is insulting me well then we fucked mate......

lets at the very least try an remove emotion out of this and this with rational minds....but if insulting me makes you feel better then by all means please continue.




Your kidding right !!!
You feel insulted by what you said !!!!

Geeeez man. Grow a pair , only you can control what you say and do
 :imaposer:

yip, we fucked as I thought, its far worse than I thought possible  .... ::) ...the resistance movement hurls insults while the gantries rake in their cash

Bwahahaha. Your playground arguments (turnaround) is funny. What u have been spouted as insults etc n I have found quite funny , and then your own contradiction , that you find as insulting when it was commented on is funny
Thanx


and still it continues.......

so Punisher , what have you done for the resistance today, oh I insulted ICM 3 times....wow you won the internet

so punisher, have I insulted you at all? are you in the habit of name calling all the time, is this your norm modus operandi?

if we cannot tolerate views opposite to ours or we do not make an effort to empathise with those views then surely that makes us very closed human beings and closed humans resort to insulting those they cannot an will not tolerate.

the intolerance on this forum is a lil eye brow raising or is that low brow raising ...

just cos I choose to have an etag does not make me spinelss, does not make me a coward, does not make me a twatwaffle or whatever other insult you care to hurl at ppl ..... the emotion in this saga (nor restricted to WD) is making ppl gullible who then fall for any scrap that comes along, hysteria prevents rational thinking ....

change is inevitable ,one way or the other we are going to pay for these roads and mostly argue that these roads have been paid for time an time again then say a fuel levy is ok...

Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 03:06:10 pm
I didn't insult anyone , your backtracking brought it on

As far as what I have don't today , I have held two anti tag / e_toll discussions , amongst my collegues , handed out some stickers , used my roads tag free.
But most of all , held out another day in defiance against corruption and general cowardice

And you ? ........ If I may ask
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 05, 2013, 03:10:21 pm
I didn't insult anyone , your backtracking brought it on

As far as what I have don't today , I have held two anti tag / e_toll discussions , amongst my collegues , handed out some stickers , used my roads tag free.
But most of all , held out another day in defiance against corruption and general cowardice

And you ? ........ If I may ask

hey, I avoided the highways thus ensuring they do not get my revenue...... u used the roads thereby passively agreeing that sanral can bill you (if they get thru the admin nightmare) but by using the roads you have consented to their billing of the roads.... u don't need an etag to consent you know...u do it tacitly when you use the roads.

but nice one.... every lil bit helps
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: laurika on December 05, 2013, 03:14:09 pm
"and still it continues.......

=
if we cannot tolerate views opposite to ours or we do not make an effort to empathise with those views then surely that makes us very closed human beings and closed humans resort to insulting those they cannot an will not tolerate.

the intolerance on this forum is a lil eye brow raising or is that low brow raising ...

just cos I choose to have an etag does not make me spinelss, does not make me a coward, does not make me a twatwaffle or whatever other insult you care to hurl at ppl ..... the emotion in this saga (nor restricted to WD) is making ppl gullible who then fall for any scrap that comes along, hysteria prevents rational thinking ....

change is inevitable ,one way or the other we are going to pay for these roads and mostly argue that these roads have been paid for time an time again then say a fuel levy is ok..."


i dont agree with tolling but i do agree with some of the things  ICM says...we are allowed to have different opinions and forcing  people to change their views because it is not yours ...well, its kinda against the whole idea of freedom of association...
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: dirtyXT on December 05, 2013, 03:17:28 pm
 :biggrin: public flogging!   :pot:
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: alanB on December 05, 2013, 03:24:10 pm
OK Kilroy asked me to moderate this section, I'm not sure why, because I'm not exactly unbiased.  But I accepted!

So lets stop the personal attacks, nothing wrong with robust debate, but I don't think it helps to have this degenerate into the usual name calling and personal arguments.

Everyone has the right to their opinion (no matter how annoying you or I may find it).

But on the same token, try and keep the comments relevant and not just troll trying to get a rise out of the people that feel quite passionately about the subject - for or against.

Deal?

I will take the necessary steps otherwise, with no correspondence entered into .... (feel like a bloody schoolmaster  ::))

Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Beebop on December 05, 2013, 03:30:05 pm
OK Kilroy asked me to moderate this section, I'm not sure why, because I'm not exactly unbiased.  But I accepted!

So lets stop the personal attacks, nothing wrong with robust debate, but I don't think it helps to have this degenerate into the usual name calling and personal arguments.

Everyone has the right to their opinion (no matter how annoying you or I may find it).

But on the same token, try and keep the comments relevant and not just troll trying to get a rise out of the people that feel quite passionately about the subject - for or against.

Deal?

I will take the necessary steps otherwise, with no correspondence entered into .... (feel like a bloody schoolmaster  ::))


Yes ma'am.....
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: Inprogress on December 05, 2013, 04:30:20 pm
I didn't insult anyone , your backtracking brought it on

As far as what I have don't today , I have held two anti tag / e_toll discussions , amongst my collegues , handed out some stickers , used my roads tag free.
But most of all , held out another day in defiance against corruption and general cowardice

And you ? ........ If I may ask

hey, I avoided the highways thus ensuring they do not get my revenue...... u used the roads thereby passively agreeing that sanral can bill you (if they get thru the admin nightmare) but by using the roads you have consented to their billing of the roads.... u don't need an etag to consent you know...u do it tacitly when you use the roads.

but nice one.... every lil bit helps

That is the wrong way around.
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: punisher on December 05, 2013, 08:15:27 pm
I didn't insult anyone , your backtracking brought it on

As far as what I have don't today , I have held two anti tag / e_toll discussions , amongst my collegues , handed out some stickers , used my roads tag free.
But most of all , held out another day in defiance against corruption and general cowardice

And you ? ........ If I may ask

hey, I avoided the highways thus ensuring they do not get my revenue...... u used the roads thereby passively agreeing that sanral can bill you (if they get thru the admin nightmare) but by using the roads you have consented to their billing of the roads.... u don't need an etag to consent you know...u do it tacitly when you use the roads.

but nice one.... every lil bit helps

 by using MY roads i am agreeing to nothing , i am stating my intent to continue using for what i have already paid for , i am also making a stand against continued theft ,
by purchasing an e-tag one legitimizes their corruption 
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 06, 2013, 06:46:06 am
I didn't insult anyone , your backtracking brought it on

As far as what I have don't today , I have held two anti tag / e_toll discussions , amongst my collegues , handed out some stickers , used my roads tag free.
But most of all , held out another day in defiance against corruption and general cowardice

And you ? ........ If I may ask

hey, I avoided the highways thus ensuring they do not get my revenue...... u used the roads thereby passively agreeing that sanral can bill you (if they get thru the admin nightmare) but by using the roads you have consented to their billing of the roads.... u don't need an etag to consent you know...u do it tacitly when you use the roads.

but nice one.... every lil bit helps

 by using MY roads i am agreeing to nothing , i am stating my intent to continue using for what i have already paid for , i am also making a stand against continued theft ,
by purchasing an e-tag one legitimizes their corruption 

sadly , yr view is not correct ...... this is where the emotional rhetoric is incorrect..using the roads with the attitude that SANRAL can send you a bill through the mail is tacitly approving the system...

the only real way of rejecting the toll roads completely is not to get etagged an not to use them at all....even using them with false plates etc is still using the roads ...

I know, not a palatable thing to read.....not on a Friday morning ... day4 ...and still not one gantry have I gone under..

another thing that continually creeps up in the conversation is the "corruption" of the ANC and the like, again no one is arguing , I think you will find I am a bigger opponent of the ANC than most here, a search of posts over the years will corroborate this but we should keep this about tolls ... and focus on the tolls....bringing all these other facets in just blurs the focus .... the most powerful weapon we have is to vote DA in april 2014.....and failing that to vote anti ANC ...this is after all a democracy and that's how democracies wrok....u don't like it u vote against it.
Title: Re: eTolls - The Political implication
Post by: punisher on December 06, 2013, 03:25:35 pm
I didn't insult anyone , your backtracking brought it on

As far as what I have don't today , I have held two anti tag / e_toll discussions , amongst my collegues , handed out some stickers , used my roads tag free.
But most of all , held out another day in defiance against corruption and general cowardice

And you ? ........ If I may ask

hey, I avoided the highways thus ensuring they do not get my revenue...... u used the roads thereby passively agreeing that sanral can bill you (if they get thru the admin nightmare) but by using the roads you have consented to their billing of the roads.... u don't need an etag to consent you know...u do it tacitly when you use the roads.

but nice one.... every lil bit helps

 by using MY roads i am agreeing to nothing , i am stating my intent to continue using for what i have already paid for , i am also making a stand against continued theft ,
by purchasing an e-tag one legitimizes their corruption 

sadly , yr view is not correct ...... this is where the emotional rhetoric is incorrect..using the roads with the attitude that SANRAL can send you a bill through the mail is tacitly approving the system...

the only real way of rejecting the toll roads completely is not to get etagged an not to use them at all....even using them with false plates etc is still using the roads ...

I know, not a palatable thing to read.....not on a Friday morning ... day4 ...and still not one gantry have I gone under..

another thing that continually creeps up in the conversation is the "corruption" of the ANC and the like, again no one is arguing , I think you will find I am a bigger opponent of the ANC than most here, a search of posts over the years will corroborate this but we should keep this about tolls ... and focus on the tolls....bringing all these other facets in just blurs the focus .... the most powerful weapon we have is to vote DA in april 2014.....and failing that to vote anti ANC ...this is after all a democracy and that's how democracies wrok....u don't like it u vote against it.


 i see purchasing an e tag as a vote for sanral ,  but  hey  carry  on  , your choice