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General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: Sláinte Mhaith on December 10, 2013, 09:02:55 am

Title: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on December 10, 2013, 09:02:55 am
For those without e-tags.

Anyone received an invoice yet?  What do they look like?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on December 10, 2013, 09:09:43 am
Nothing and I doubt I will be seeing one any time soon.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Ganjora on December 10, 2013, 09:12:00 am
Nothing and I doubt I will be seeing one any time soon.

post office is on a go slow:  http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/12/05/snail-mail-to-block-e-tolls (http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/12/05/snail-mail-to-block-e-tolls)

Yesterday, the Cosatu-affiliated Communications Workers' Union urged its workers, who have been on a go-slow, to strengthen their contribution to Cosatu's campaign against e-tolls by delaying the delivery to defaulting motorists of SA National Roads Agency mail.

"We [want] our workers to be really extremely slow when they see the e-tolls mail," Aubrey Tshabalala, the union's Gauteng secretary, said.

"Our members will be very slow. The snail will be faster than us when we see e-tolls mail."
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on December 10, 2013, 09:37:02 am
For those without e-tags.

Anyone received an invoice yet?  What do they look like?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on December 10, 2013, 09:44:44 am
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on December 17, 2013, 08:48:04 am
Listening to 702 now, people are getting invoices. Apparently if you have registered on Payfine, they have given SANRAL their database and are sending out 'invoices' to unregistered users.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Pistonpete on December 17, 2013, 09:14:16 am
For those without e-tags.

Anyone received an invoice yet?  What do they look like?
:imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 17, 2013, 09:18:05 am
Listening to 702 now, people are getting invoices. Apparently if you have registered on Payfine, they have given SANRAL their database and are sending out 'invoices' to unregistered users.

Did anyone check that the Payfine site privacy statement allows them to share your details with anyone they like?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Ganjora on December 17, 2013, 09:21:58 am
Listening to 702 now, people are getting invoices. Apparently if you have registered on Payfine, they have given SANRAL their database and are sending out 'invoices' to unregistered users.

people pay their traffic fines?
good god,  next they'll be paying their e-toll bills.
a fool born every minute...
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Dwerg on December 17, 2013, 09:24:26 am
I've recieved 2 emails with 2 seperate dispute details and saying that they are in the process of being investigated. I haven't logged a dispute....
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mikie on December 17, 2013, 09:36:15 am
I registered on Payfine years ago, was probably even on another email address. They cant prove I still use the address that payfine gives them.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: PierreO on December 17, 2013, 10:07:08 am
I've recieved 2 emails with 2 seperate dispute details and saying that they are in the process of being investigated. I haven't logged a dispute....

Ooops sorry I still wanted to tell you about this .
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on December 17, 2013, 02:01:37 pm
I've recieved 2 emails with 2 seperate dispute details and saying that they are in the process of being investigated. I haven't logged a dispute....

 ;D ;D ;D

Seems they are on their way to cock up the system properly.  Pity that it won't bring them to an abrupt stop I guess.

Reason why I asked the question about invoices. Remember all the talk about disputing invoices or ignoring postal invoices. Seem the system works different and they put the onus on the user to figure out if he went under a gantry. Remember all the talk about enatis linking your detail to sanral. What happened to that. Now talk about pay fine giving your details to sanral. Doubt if they can legally do that.

Suppose we can only wait and see how the system work. Hopefully by waiting it will cause the system to collapse.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 17, 2013, 02:43:59 pm
Tried to find the  PayFine terms and conditions:

It seems that PayFine.co.za no longer exists, the url gets redirected to paycity.co.za

Their terms and conditions are here https://www.paycity.co.za/ContentPage.aspx?Name=Terms (https://www.paycity.co.za/ContentPage.aspx?Name=Terms)

I'm not sure what the terms and conditions of Payfine were.  I would guess they were the same as these, but its difficult to prove that now the site no longer exists.

Some snippets:

Quote
SECURITY

All User information is kept strictly confidential and is secured by a variety of security measures that are reasonable taking into account the nature of service offered on this Site. Personal information will not be shared with any third party without the express written consent of the User or in terms of a court order. All credit card transactions are Secure Socket Layers encrypted. The company registration documents and the site's registered domain name are checked and verified by Thawte.

Appropriate action shall be taken in terms of chapter 8 of the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act 25 of 2002, against any person that delivers or attempts to deliver any damaging code to this Site or attempts to gain unauthorised access to any page on this Site.

Quote
Disclosing your information to third parties

Paycity reserves the right to access and disclose individual-identifying information to comply with applicable laws, regulations and lawful government requests, to operate its systems properly or to protect itself or its users or to solve any customer disputes.

We may provide aggregate statistics about our sales, customers, traffic patterns and other site information to third parties, but these statistics will not include any information that could personally identify you.

We will not disclose personal information collected about you without your express consent thereto or through due legal process.

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 17, 2013, 02:56:10 pm
In any event, if you didnt buy an etag or register on their site, SANRAL have no agreement with you  in which you stipulate what your address details are - so if they send you an unsolicited invoice via email, and you ignore it, I doubt of they have any claim on you.

Its quite reasonable to claim you deleted it because you thought it was a scam given that you never agreed to receive invoices via email.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 17, 2013, 03:13:35 pm
I can't wait for the 1st Sanral Invoice scams to pop up - "Please follow this link and enter all your private information....."  :lol8:

they can go fark themselves!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on December 17, 2013, 03:15:14 pm
I'm on PayCity and have received nothing from scamral.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: ClimbingTurtle on December 17, 2013, 03:37:14 pm
Checked my postbox carefully this weekend......

Nary a lurking Sanral account in sight!!!

How am I supposed to pay within 7 days if I don't receive the bill in 14.......????

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

varkerzzz.....  :eek7:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 17, 2013, 03:50:05 pm
My GF just got this SMS (that will be deservedly ignored)

 "You have overdue e-toll fees in the amount of R 325.26 which have been handed over for collection to VPC. Call 0800 SANRAL (726 725) Ref: ************"
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Cracker on December 17, 2013, 04:03:57 pm
Bills will only be sent at the end of the month
So, until Jan, relax. We'll sort it out next year
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: trackSHUN on December 17, 2013, 04:04:24 pm
My GF just got this SMS (that will be deservedly ignored)

 "You have overdue e-toll fees in the amount of R 325.26 which have been handed over for collection to VPC. Call 0800 SANRAL (726 725) Ref: ************"

OOOOhhhhh --

Bundu your GF is getting really close to the ZAR450-00 cap, then she can travel for FREEEEEEEEEE !! :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 17, 2013, 04:06:24 pm
My GF just got this SMS (that will be deservedly ignored)

 "You have overdue e-toll fees in the amount of R 325.26 which have been handed over for collection to VPC. Call 0800 SANRAL (726 725) Ref: ************"

OOOOhhhhh --

Bundu your GF is getting really close to the ZAR450-00 cap, then she can travel for FREEEEEEEEEE !! :biggrin:

we aim to travel for free from km 1  ;) ;D
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 19, 2013, 07:00:15 am
You may be able to claim that all charges are invalid  :thumleft:

Quote
E-toll charges are invalid - JPSA

December 18 2013 at 09:06am

Comment on this story
IOL mot dec18 etoll board

Independent Newspapers

File photo: Dumisani Sibeko

Related Stories

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    Outa spells out your e-toll options
    Outa disses Sanral e-tag sales claims

Motorists might be able to claim e-tolls refund because a Government Gazette notice about the charges indicates conflicting amounts, the Justice Project SA (JPSA) said on Wednesday.

The differences were in the English and Afrikaans versions of the e-toll tariff notices published in the Government Gazette, said JPSA national chairman Howard Dembovsky.

Both versions were signed by the transport department's acting director general on November 19 and “therefore have equal, but conflicting weight,” said Dembovsky.

“Effectively, the tariffs applicable to registered 'alternative users' differ in the English and Afrikaans versions, and this introduces severe interpretation issues,” Dembovsky said.

JPSA called on the department to immediately repeal the offending Tariff Gazette.

It asked that the department instruct the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) to stop levying and collecting e-tolls until the matter was corrected, Dembovsky said. -Sapa
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Skootaboy on December 19, 2013, 08:28:27 am
I have good information that SANRAL gave (yes - free!!!) a financial institution (I can't mention which one) 150 000 e-tags to distribute to their customers that make use of their fleet leasing offering. The institution have distributed about 60 000 to their customers. I have no idea how many have actually put them in their cars or have registered them. So now when SANRAL proudly announce that 900 000 e-tags have been sold this is absolute kak! They have been dishing them out to leasing institutions and car rentals companies for free to try and widen their customer base and con the public into believing that everyone is buying into the scheme.
Also note that as you drive under a gantry 5 photos are taken of each vehicle. Also note that the overhead shot records the license disk details (state of the art cameras) so if you are purposely obscuring your plates also remember to put a bit of grease/vaseline over the disk area (obviously not an issue with bikes)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Skootaboy on December 19, 2013, 08:35:34 am
So now I own a car, a two bike trailer and 2 motorcycles. I load the two bikes on the trailer, hitch the trailer to my car and proceed down the highway and pass under a bunch of toll gantries. Does this mean I pay 4 times the toll fee each time I pass a gantry? I understand that SANRAL may recognise my trailer as not being self propelled (I hope) but how does the $%#@ machine know my bikes are on a trailer?
So now we have to obscure the bike number plates when we tow them?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on December 19, 2013, 08:43:59 am
I have good information that SANRAL gave (yes - free!!!) a financial institution (I can't mention which one) 150 000 e-tags to distribute to their customers that make use of their fleet leasing offering. The institution have distributed about 60 000 to their customers. I have no idea how many have actually put them in their cars or have registered them. So now when SANRAL proudly announce that 900 000 e-tags have been sold this is absolute kak! They have been dishing them out to leasing institutions and car rentals companies for free to try and widen their customer base and con the public into believing that everyone is buying into the scheme.
Also note that as you drive under a gantry 5 photos are taken of each vehicle. Also note that the overhead shot records the license disk details (state of the art cameras) so if you are purposely obscuring your plates also remember to put a bit of grease/vaseline over the disk area (obviously not an issue with bikes)

This is not true (been discussed AT LENGTH on this forum and disproven by experts)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tr0jan on December 19, 2013, 09:12:12 am
I have good information that SANRAL gave (yes - free!!!) a financial institution (I can't mention which one) 150 000 e-tags to distribute to their customers that make use of their fleet leasing offering. The institution have distributed about 60 000 to their customers. I have no idea how many have actually put them in their cars or have registered them. So now when SANRAL proudly announce that 900 000 e-tags have been sold this is absolute kak! They have been dishing them out to leasing institutions and car rentals companies for free to try and widen their customer base and con the public into believing that everyone is buying into the scheme.
Also note that as you drive under a gantry 5 photos are taken of each vehicle. Also note that the overhead shot records the license disk details (state of the art cameras) so if you are purposely obscuring your plates also remember to put a bit of grease/vaseline over the disk area (obviously not an issue with bikes)

This is not true (been discussed AT LENGTH on this forum and disproven by experts)

Ive got a 11cm X 7cm plate. camera does not read it, so no, it aint true!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 19, 2013, 12:45:05 pm
Quote
Pay or else, say e-toll bill bullies

December 19 2013 at 07:58am
By Angelique Serrao

Comment on this story
IOl mot pic dec19 Cornelia van Niekerk 1

INLSA

Cornelia van Niekerk of Fines 4 U said her cellphone rang nonstop on Wednesday morning. Picture: Chris Collingridge

Related Stories

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    Outa disses Sanral e-tag sales claims
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A woman who runs a pay-fine company said she received 32 phone calls from the electronic toll collection violations centre on Wednesday, demanding payment for unpaid e-toll fees.

Cornelia van Niekerk of Fines 4 U acts as a proxy for more than 80 companies, dealing with the paying of traffic fines for company vehicle fleets.

She said her cellphone rang nonstop on Wednesday morning, each call from a different person, saying her e-toll bills had been sent to the violations centre because they were unpaid.

Van Niekerk recorded the conversations, in which each time the call centre agent repeatedly advises her to register the vehicles so she can see invoices, and asks her to give them her e-mail address so they can send her the invoices electronically.

In one call from a woman named Portia, Van Niekerk asked her how many people worked at the call centre. The woman replied “more than 80”, and asked why Van Niekerk wanted to know.

Van Niekerk told her that this was the 32nd call she had received, and each time she had spoken to a different person.

The call centre agent informed her that she had an e-toll bill of more than R2000 and Van Niekerk asked her how she would be able to verify these amounts if she had not received an invoice.

Van Niekerk said that in all the conversations, it was clear that no invoices had yet been sent out.

The call centre agent told her it would take time to send out invoices and encouraged Van Niekerk to register with them to make the process easier.

Van Niekerk refused to register.

The call centre agent asked her for an e-mail address where she could send the invoices.

Van Niekerk refused to give her an e-mail address, to which Portia replied: “How can I send you the invoices without an e-mail address?”

Van Niekerk told her to post the account and she was then asked for her postal address, and Van Niekerk responded that they should do their job and find her address on the eNatis system.

She said all the vehicles the violations centre were calling about she had registered on the PayMyFines website, and she believed the ETC had got her cellphone number from there.

DETAILS HANDED OVER

On Wednesday it was revealed that users who had registered on the website, which is owned by TMT Services (Pty) Ltd, the South African company owned by Kaupsch TrafficCom, which runs the ETC, had their details handed over to the ETC.

TMT Services chief executive Douglas Davey said the terms and conditions on their website specifically indicates that PayMyFines reserves the right to access and disclose individual identifying information to parties. He said this excluded confidential financial information.

South African National Roads Agency Limited spokesman Vusi Mona admitted there was a call centre operating, but all he would say about the phone calls was that customers must call their call centre if they had any billing problems, rather than speaking to a third party.

“They are in a massive pickle to attain their financial targets.”

Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance spokesman Wayne Duvenage said it had always maintained that e-tolling was an administrative burden and said the phone calls showed that Sanral was trying to get people to register for e-tolls.

He said Outa’s website was flooded with messages of complaint from road users.

Justice Project South Africa chairman Howard Dembovsky said the ETC was jumping the gun, putting people onto the debt-collection processes before invoices had been sent, which he said was breaking the law.

“What company will make payment without a tax invoice?” he asked.

The Justice Project has written to TMT Services demanding that it stop giving out personal details or face an interdict. - The Star
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on December 19, 2013, 01:08:29 pm
The circus has begun.  Please stand in the queue for your popcorn and take a seat to watch the show.

Oh, and I like this woman's approach.  Make them work for what they want.

Fukkem
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 19, 2013, 01:22:00 pm
I have a feeling that this is going to be funnier than the Zooooma boooooing or the schizo signman  :imaposer: :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: MegaPix on December 19, 2013, 01:24:14 pm
 :happy1: :happy1: :happy1: :diablo_ani_fire: :happy1: :happy1: :happy1:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 19, 2013, 03:10:59 pm
.............and the fun hasn't even started yet. This  headline in today's Star illustrates what these cretins at Scumral get up to. And it all comes out of taxpayers' pockets! Wait until the volumes pick up!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on December 19, 2013, 07:05:36 pm
i have heard someone on FB received a bill

another one received an e-mail bill


i wish they would hurry up with mine ... the bog roll is running low 
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: IDR on December 19, 2013, 09:46:50 pm
I've got one via email...

Flat ignore
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 19, 2013, 10:02:04 pm
I've got one via email...

Flat ignore
correct  :thumleft:

your postal address is your accepted AARTO correspondence channel
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Beebop on December 19, 2013, 10:06:58 pm
Well I have a registered "parcel" waiting for me at the post office apparently.
Will have to go see what it is sometime. Can only be a fine or e-toll invoice, unless
someone sent me a Christmas present.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on December 20, 2013, 05:26:02 am
I have ridden through several gantries.  I am not e-tolled and awaiting my invoice.  I am a dutiful citizen; I will pay. :lol8: ;D :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on December 20, 2013, 10:38:18 am
hang ...... you mean to tell me , this goverment also discriminates against us souties  pffffffffffft  .........  ohhh not again man .......................  is there no place where us scots are free !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ( said while flashing the wee man and the two nutters with kilt in air )
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: jogi_c on December 20, 2013, 11:04:52 am
I received an SMS this morning kindly asking me to register for e-tollie. They asked me to send my registration number back via SMS or to phone.

Anybody else receive one?

I am wondering if they are just randomly sending SMS's or if they picked my number because I "owe" them money

Of course I will not respond or opt out
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 20, 2013, 11:23:46 am
I received an SMS this morning kindly asking me to register for e-tollie. They asked me to send my registration number back via SMS or to phone.

Anybody else receive one?

I am wondering if they are just randomly sending SMS's or if they picked my number because I "owe" them money

Of course I will not respond or opt out

I  know some guys on another forum that have reported them for sending spam SMSs

I haven't received anything yet, but my gf has received a threatening SMS, which will be ignored
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 20, 2013, 11:24:33 am
form JPSA:


Below is a media release with respect to the harassment of so-called e-toll “violators”.

JPSA MEDIA STATEMENT – FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
TO:   ALL NEWS AND TRANSPORT EDITORS
DATE:   THURSDAY 19 DECEMBER 2013
SUBJECT:   ILLEGAL HARASSMENT OVER E-TOLL “VIOLATIONS” TO BE HALTED
As reported in the Star Newspaper of today, Traffic fines management company, Fines4U (Pty) Ltd has been inundated with emails and SMS messages from TMT Services (Pty) Ltd in their capacity as tender winners for running the SANRAL “Violations Processing Centre – (VPC)” since Friday the 13th of December.  It was immediately apparent that TMT Services (Pty) Ltd had gleaned the personal particulars of Mrs Cornelia van Niekerk from a website called PayMyFines.co.za.

The Electronic Communications and Transactions (ECT) Act forbids the unauthorised use of personal electronic contact details belonging to any person and PayMyFines.co.za own terms and conditions expressly state that “We will not disclose personal information collected about you without your express consent thereto or through due legal process.”

Yesterday, Fines4U’s lawyers, Dewey Hertzberg Levy Inc. wrote to TMT Services to demand that they cease and desist with the unauthorised use of Mrs van Niekerk’s personal particulars or face court action and today received a reply from TMT Services’ lawyers giving an undertaking that TMT would indeed no longer use any of the personal information held by PayMyFines.co.za.

A further letter was sent to the lawyers for TMT Services today demanding that telephone calls from them are also ceased because they make similar use of the personal information provided to PayMyFines.co.za.  In addition, the effect of these incessant phone calls are blocking her lines and making it impossible for her to do her work.

Fines4U is not the only victim of the abuses perpetrated by TMT Services, acting on behalf of SANRAL and scores of other members of the public, all of whom apparently also happen to be registered with PayMyFines.co.za have been complaining about being hounded.

“By stark contrast, those who are not registered with PayMyFines.co.za but have driven on the Gauteng e-toll roads have not heard a word from the VPC,” said JPSA’s Howard Dembovsky.  “I know this because I am one of those who have driven on them and I have not paid – nor have my friends,” he continued.

JPSA advises that people who continue to be hounded by TMT Services should simply quote the undertaking given to Fines4U by TMT Services to cease abusing the personal information they hold since there is no logical reason why they should treat any person differently.  If however the abuse continues, there is nothing to stop people banding together to institute a “class action” to have an interdict issued against TMT Services and JPSA will be happy to help the public facilitate this.

Both, TMT Services and SANRAL must stop acting like thugs, stick to the legislated requirements of sending invoices to people within 32 days after the expiry of the 7 day “grace period” and obey the laws they expect others to obey.

ENDS

Best Regards,

Howard Dembovsky
National Chairman - Justice Project South Africa (NPC)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Frog on December 20, 2013, 06:12:11 pm
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on December 21, 2013, 07:26:34 am
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???


You look worried  ;D
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 21, 2013, 12:39:54 pm
I've just watched "The Bike Show" on Ch 189 on DsTv and they gave an excellent summary of the present e-tolling debacle, including interviews with Wayne Duvenage and Dubrovsky. A must see for all the "draadsitters" and those idiots who have already bought e-tags. I'll be posting on Facebook and I hope everyone seeing this will ask their friends to watch!

Channel 189:

                          Saturday           18h00
                           Sunday            10h00
                                                   16h00
                                                   22h00       
             
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Frog on December 21, 2013, 02:27:23 pm
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???


You look worried  ;D
Not any more, I quickly went out and bought an e tag
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on December 22, 2013, 07:27:08 am
I also received an SMS today asking me to register ???


You look worried  ;D
Not any more, I quickly went out and bought an e tag

Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  You did what?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 22, 2013, 12:05:56 pm
Haven't received an invoice? YOU STILL GOTTA PAY (according to scumral)


Invoice or not, e-tolls must be paid - Sanral
Dec 22 2013 10:32 Sapa   

Johannesburg - Not paying toll fees is against the law, regardless of whether an invoice is issued, Sanral said on Sunday.

"Not paying your toll fees is not just a traffic offence, but a criminal one," SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) spokesperson Vusi Mona said in a statement.

"The legal obligation to pay toll arises from using the toll road and passing underneath a gantry, not from an invoice that is forwarded to the road user."

Mona said this was contained in all the signs posted along the tolled roads, and which indicated that payment had to be made within seven days.

"Sanral is using legally available resources at its disposal to contact vehicle owners. We are issuing notices, with invoices to follow, in order to alert road users that they have outstanding debt."

Anyone who said different was "misleading" the public, he said.

He said the courts had already ruled on matters relating to the e-tolls.

"It is regrettable that there are some organisations which are still contesting the legality of e-tolling outside court processes."

Earlier this week, the Justice Project SA (JPSA) urged Sanral and the transport department to go to court to seek legal clarification as to the validity of conflicting tolls tariffs published in the Government Gazette.

The English and Afrikaans versions of e-toll tariff notices published in the Government Gazette differed in the amounts stipulated.

"It is not for anyone to prove the lawfulness of acting under invalid legislation, but for the department to obtain confirmation of the high court as to clarity thereof and enforceability of the administrative action based on conflicting legislation." said JPSA chair Howard Dembovsky.

However, transport department spokesperson Tiyani Rikhotso said at the time that the "noted mistake in question won't affect the validity of the legislation."

Dembovsky then suggested the department was trying to "wish away their 'mistakes'".

The Star newspaper reported that, according to Dembovsky, users of the paymyfines website were receiving e-toll bills by e-mail even though they were not registered e-tag users, or had not given their e-mail address to Sanral.

The newspaper reported that its own investigation had found that the company running the paymyfines website and the website etcrecovery.co.za, which was sending the e-mails demanding e-toll money, were part of the same company - TMT Services.

A South African company, TMT was part of the Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom, which runs the e-toll project.

However, at the time, Mona said that Sanral was obtaining information for invoices from eNatis, the national administration traffic information system, and from a "database legally obtained from third parties".


Do these idiots REALLY think this crap is going to work? They're sunk!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 22, 2013, 12:18:39 pm
This is illogical how much do you pay if they don't send you an invoice?

They cannot shift the onus onto you to do there admin for them!

Otherwise what stops me from paying any amount and claiming that was what I thought I owed? 

If they won't/can't send out invoices what are they going to do about requests for proof of transactions?  Do you have to try sort that out yourself as well?

Nothing here is in the interests of the motorists!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 22, 2013, 12:33:10 pm
...........

Mona said this was contained in all the signs posted along the tolled roads, and which indicated that payment had to be made within seven days.
.............

so if we were to start destroying these signs, everybody can use the roads for free?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 22, 2013, 02:24:04 pm
I think this is an issue on very shaky legal footing which needs to be challenged in court.

They cant refuse to do the admin just because people didn't buy etags and then try and shift that responsibility onto those motorists.

In every other business transaction an invoice is required for payment, even SARS sends you an assessment FFS!

In any normal world, you would wait for a bill in the post - why is this suddenly different?

All that article really amounts to is an admission that their systems cant cope if large numbers of  people continue to resist  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 22, 2013, 02:43:18 pm
Watch Ch 189 on DStv at 16h00 this afternoon - very illuminating insight given by Duvenage and Dubrovsky!

                                    A definite don't miss!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 22, 2013, 03:28:08 pm
Watch Ch 189 on DStv at 16h00 this afternoon - very illuminating insight given by Duvenage and Dubrovsky!

                                    A definite don't miss!
Dembovsky
jy moet nou wakker word oubaas  ;)  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 22, 2013, 04:03:17 pm
Wat makeer jy? Dis fokken Sondag middag!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 22, 2013, 04:08:43 pm
Wat makeer jy? Dis fokken Sondag middag!

is so! ek wil net nie dat 'n russiese spy ons moet adviseer nie  ;)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 22, 2013, 04:38:58 pm
The e-toll debate is hotting up! Check news24 for reports (I see they have removed some of them - just type e-toll and search their site).
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on December 23, 2013, 12:39:37 pm
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223)

Jissis these Samral idiots are something special...  :eek7:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 23, 2013, 12:50:15 pm
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223)

Jissis these Samral idiots are something special...  :eek7:

fucking cnuts!
If I had an e-tag, I would have now cancelled it after all these threats from these bastards - who the hell do they think they are? :xxbah:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on December 23, 2013, 01:40:47 pm
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-under-fire-over-invoice-statement-20131223)

Jissis these Samral idiots are something special...  :eek7:

Its worth reproducing that here in full, just in case people start taking their threats seriously  :thumleft:

Quote
Sanral under fire over invoice statement
Dec 23 2013 11:33 Fin24   
tolls

A picture poking fun at e-tolls that went live despite widespread public opposition. (Fin24 user Ruggero Piovesan)
Related Articles
Reason for e-tolls 'hilarious' - expert
Invoice or not, e-tolls must be paid - Sanral
E-toll tariffs debate intensifies
Sanral faces debt danger
Sanral sticks to its guns on e-tag sales
Sanral: R500 e-toll fines bogus
 
Cape Town - Justice Project South Africa (JPSA)  on Monday lashed out at national roads agency Sanral's latest "threat against motorists" over e-tolls, saying its statement contained factually inaccurate information and showed a scant understanding of e-tolling processes.

“The provisions of the Sanral Act and e-road regulations are not a wish-list – they are the law and for (Sanral spokesperson) Vusi Mona to claim otherwise is simply bizarre,” said JPSA chairperson Howard Dembovsky.

He was reacting to the Sanral statement on Sunday which said that not paying e-tolls is against the law, regardless of whether an invoice is issued.

Dembovsky said regulation 6(5) of the e-road regulations is not only clear, but prescriptive. "It says that Sanral must issue an invoice to any person from whom it requires payment of outstanding e-tolls.

“The word 'must' in legislation is not an ambiguous word in any way; it is a prescriptive word which places a duty on the party against whom it is applied,” he said.

In response to Mona’s statement that “it is regrettable that there are some organisations which are still contesting the legality of e-tolling outside court processes”, JPSA pointed out that it has challenged the Department of Transport to obtain a declaratory order deeming the provisions of the e-tolling laws to be valid in light of the “mistakes” contained in the e-toll tariff gazette.

“If Sanral chooses not to obtain this clarity, they run the risk of forcing citizens to approach the courts to do so,” Dembovsky said. “In the long run, this could cost Sanral much more than fixing the error now."

Dembovsky said Mona's threat that "not paying toll fees may have unintended consequences which
can affect one's life, (like) getting a job, renting a vehicle or accommodation, getting a loan, being a company director, getting promoted” is both inaccurate and juvenile.

He said Sanral's attitude is loathsome, "especially in light of the fact that the AARTO Act decriminalises road traffic offences which includes non-payment of tolls".

"AARTO makes provision under charge codes 3820 and 3821 under Schedule 3 of the Act to deal with these matters.”

Dembovsky said that AARTO was in force in a large proportion of the jurisdictions the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP) passes through and "this anomaly was just one of the questions posed to the Department of Justice, Department of Transport, NPA and Sanral".

"If AARTO is applied to speed fines on the respective freeways then AARTO applies to all minor infringements such as non-payment of toll fees, and the DoT will know that AARTO specifically decriminalises traffic violations and no one can be guilty of a criminal offence for non-payment as Sanral claims.

“JPSA is still awaiting clarification of the issues raised,” Dembovsky said.

To me this is a pretty clear indication that SANRAL are in trouble.  Too many people have not got etags and they dont have the means to send out the required amount of invoices and are trying to find a way around that.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on December 23, 2013, 02:26:52 pm
To me this is a pretty clear indication that SANRAL are in trouble.  Too many people have not got etags and they dont have the means to send out the required amount of invoices and are trying to find a way around that.  :thumleft:

Hammer, nail, head...  :thumleft:


Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 23, 2013, 05:45:18 pm
He, he, he! The fun and games have started even earlier than I thought:

This from Facebook (visit the site to see the hilarious comments)


1 million motorists refuse to pay eTolls

SANRAL FACES HUGE PROBLEM WITH CLONED NUMBER PLATES.

One fleet owner has been billed for several vehicles that were in KZN at the time SANRAL says they were passing under gantries. SANRAL have not provided him with a detailed invoice and insist that he pays.

This is evidence of a system that is already failing.

There is a huge problem with cloned number plates, so you need an invoice WITH photos. DO NOT PAY until you have all the detailed information

Like · 580· Share · 100 ·  Comment  · 442 · 4 hours ago ·
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 24, 2013, 06:16:36 am
Priceless comments on news24 on Sanral "criminality". A lot of people are obviously not going to pay, let alone get an e-tag!   :imaposer:


"Skrywer John Murray McKay - December 23, 2013 at 19:04

I have your payment right here. Just right of the butt cheek, just below the hello Kitty tattoo
like 96
 dislike 1
Reply to Skrywer John Murray McKay

JohnDough - December 23, 2013 at 19:04

Sanral can suckmytoll-e.co.za
like 88
 dislike 1
Reply to JohnDough | 2 comments(hide)

Willem Schutte - December 23, 2013 at 20:24

And Mine!
like 27
 dislike 0

Frank - December 23, 2013 at 21:06

Hey John, Djough mag mos nie op news 24 so praat nie.
like 9
 dislike 2"
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 24, 2013, 06:49:42 am
why dont everyone buy an etag but never register it and kill it with say, a hammer? doesnt it cost more than the R40 to manufacture ;-)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 24, 2013, 06:53:33 am
why dont everyone buy an etag but never register it and kill it with say, a hammer? doesnt it cost more than the R40 to manufacture ;-)

Buzz, I'm not going to waste R50 of my money on those arseholes.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on December 24, 2013, 07:16:11 am
why dont everyone buy an etag but never register it and kill it with say, a hammer? doesnt it cost more than the R40 to manufacture ;-)

Buzz, I'm not going to waste R50 of my money on those arseholes.

I would rather buy bananas for my children with those 50R. :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: TVB on December 24, 2013, 07:59:15 am
why dont everyone buy an etag but never register it and kill it with say, a hammer? doesnt it cost more than the R40 to manufacture ;-)


You can't buy an e tag without registering it in a vehicles name. It cost R50 but you get the R50 then in kredit. In other words the 'device' is ??? Free
If you register you even have a choice not to take the tag, you will then pay prepaid money or deposit money into your account just like the tag and will get the same discounted tariffs. It simply works on yopur number plat but the disadvantage is that:
1) You can not use the e tag bay on the bakwena toll gates (it works on e tag)
2) You will have to monitor your account as you will not get the '2 x warning beep' from the tag to warn that credit runs low.

What I don't appreciate on this and some other threads is that when you decide to get tagged and pay for the service, whatever your reason (like want to use the e tag bay on the bakwena roads which you often travel and don't want to wait at the traditional gates in long quees) or like in my case work as a paramedic on sanral roads to serve the public people will call you on theWD forum as 'coward' or 'spine less' or iddiots. I bet if you really come to meet me face to face if you have the balls to face me you will not call me any of those names. Not for me or any of my colleagues. We always talk about a democratic country, freedom of speech etc but if you don't like any others view and ideas he gets insulted. It shows very bad caracter.

I am on a official motorbike, responding to accidents in the midrand area. I cover John vorster to annadale and proudly display my wd paw on the back of my helmet. Many bikers recognise me daily, wafe and give me the thumbs up. I don't like the system as it cost me money as well, I commute from pta to midrand every weekday, however what I do like a well maintained, monitored and safer road with road assistanse and emergency medical care. The only difference between the e toll system an the conventional toll gate system is that you don't need to stand in long quees any longer. They try to maintain traffic flow. If only it can be a bit cheaper and stay then sort of affortable I can life with it as long as they keep up with the service and condition of the road.....

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 24, 2013, 08:11:30 am
TVB, its the criminally expensive and unworkable collection system that got most road users up in arms. You don't have a choice, but the name calling is directed at those morons who support the system under the mistaken belief that "its the right thing to do". Plenty of morons like that in our society.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on December 24, 2013, 08:25:43 am
You are right TVB.

Some people don't have much option but to get tagged. For some of the reasons you mentioned. Main reason being purely financial. And I feel for those people.

But I am in the lucky situation where I don't need to get tagged. I don't travel those roads very often, only about twice a month, AND I am hardegat enough to give scamral all the kark I want to in order for them to get the money from me.

Yes, I'd like to pay the discounted tarrif, I try to save money where I can. I even had to sell my bike because times are really tough right now. BUT, and here is the crux, I don't agree with the way the tolls are done. The way they want to collect the money that is so dam ineffective. The way that the vast majority of the money collected will go offshore into some fatcats pocket.

I DO appreciate that the roads are in good condition, and that they are patrolled and monitored, and that medical assistance is so readily available. BUT, I also remember working in the old Pretoria EMS, where it was like that anyway, and we didn't have to pay anything extra.

My biggest issue is that the guvvamunt is milking us for every last cent; tolls, medical aid, security, blah blah blah. I just had enough boet, this is where I make my stand.

Keep up the good work TVB, we appreciate the hard work and effort you put in to keep us safer on our roads.

I'll bet that when you get to some poor biker that's fallen, the LAST thing he is gonna do is give you kark because you have an e-toll  :deal:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: TVB on December 24, 2013, 09:08:36 am
 :thumleft: 

You guys are right, I see your point and agree.

I think its just a little too much in the end, we are getting taxed upon tax and the whole thing snowballs out..... All of this is added stress and pressure on the working class
Just feels a bit uncomfortable at times being contracted on their roads earning my bread and butter through the 'system' and trying to stay possitive and render a good service to the public....
I meet some of the public from time to time that come to register at the public service stations. All or most of them middle too poor class and to afraid to get more nasty suprizes in the post box or delivered or maybe even handed over. Thing is and I see their point: 'its rather better to get the discount tariff and budged monthly for it than wait for months and then eventially get a bill of thousands. Yes the polititians or publick may win the fight, but what if they don't?
I for one is only on contract, I don't get medical aid, pension or 13th cheque and the payslip (tipslip) doesn't bloom at all....but this was the only door that opened after months of sitting, sending CV, worrying, praying. I got to try and stay possitive. So many medics out there and few jobs. How things have changed the past 10 years!!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 24, 2013, 10:54:06 am
why dont everyone buy an etag but never register it and kill it with say, a hammer? doesnt it cost more than the R40 to manufacture ;-)


You can't buy an e tag without registering it in a vehicles name.


Can't you buy a tag at Checkers?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: PierreO on December 24, 2013, 11:31:27 am
Yes you can and you do not need to register it .

why dont everyone buy an etag but never register it and kill it with say, a hammer? doesnt it cost more than the R40 to manufacture ;-)


You can't buy an e tag without registering it in a vehicles name.


Can't you buy a tag at Checkers?



Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 24, 2013, 11:39:31 am
There you go, I say destroy them  ;D
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 24, 2013, 11:57:21 am
Cat fight brewing, but Mona says he's on leave. Can't wait! Scumral is going to take a dive sooner rather than later. Interesting to see when cANCer will bail them out.

This status report from news24:




"No end to war of words over e-tolls

26 minutes ago Sapa   
E-tolls

(Sapa)

Related Articles
Non-payment of e-tolls is criminal - Sanral
Sanral under fire over invoice statement
Invoice or not, e-tolls must be paid - Sanral
E-toll tariffs debate intensifies
Sanral faces debt danger
E-toll charges invalid - JPSA

 

Johannesburg - A war of words between Sanral and the JPSA continued on Tuesday, in the ongoing spat about the payment of e-tolls on Gauteng's highways.

The Justice Project SA denied an SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) claim that it had told motorists they could break the law without any consequences.

"They must state where they find any grounds whatsoever to state that the JPSA or I have made any assertions that motorists could break the law without any consequences," JPSA chairperson Howard Dembovsky said in a statement on Tuesday.

He said on Monday that Sanral was misleading the public by saying the failure to pay toll fees was against the law.

Sanral reacted that the non-payment of toll fees was a criminal rather than a traffic offence.

Its spokesman Vusi Mona accused the JPSA of showing "an irresponsible and despicable attitude towards the rule of law" in saying motorists could break the law without any consequences.

On Tuesday, Dembovsky described the statement as "venomous and unfounded".

He said Sanral was avoiding clarifying e-toll laws and procedures.

"We have required clarification of procedures and conflicting laws, and they [Sanral] are clearly avoiding the issue that the laws on which e-tolls are based are unclear and contradictory, and that the 'mistakes' add to the public confusion," said Dembovsky.

These mistakes were differences in the amounts payable in the English and Afrikaans versions of the e-toll tariffs published in the Government Gazette.

The JPSA said both versions, which were signed by the transport department's acting director general on November 19, "have equal, but conflicting weight", and it called on the department to repeal the notice.

The e-toll system started operating across Gauteng three weeks ago.

The Star newspaper reported on Tuesday that Sanral was planning to introduce an automated system that would ensure that foreign motorists using freeways would pay their e-toll bills before leaving the country.

"We are working with cross-border agency to educate people, especially truck drivers that will go through Gauteng about the e-tags," Mona told the newspaper.

The Citizen newspaper reported that road users registered for e-tolls had taken to consumer website Hello Peter to complain about Sanral. Sanral had reportedly not responded.

The website allows for feedback from companies providing services.

According to the newspaper, the complaints included incorrect billing, billing not being received, unlawful debits, electronic glitches, e-tags not working and "shocking" charges.

Mona told the newspaper he was on leave, and that readers should direct their complaints to the Sanral customer call centre.

In a statement, Congress of SA Trade Unions affiliate, the SA Clothing and Textile Workers’ Union (Sactwu), said its general secretary Andre Kriel had received an e-toll violation fine notice via sms.

"The secretary general has today [Tuesday] advised Sanral that he has no intention of paying the fine," the union said in a statement.

"E-tolls are not acceptable to Sactwu and Cosatu, and we will resist it until the end."

Sanral could not be reached for comment."
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 24, 2013, 11:57:40 am
why dont everyone buy an etag but never register it and kill it with say, a hammer? doesnt it cost more than the R40 to manufacture ;-)


You can't buy an e tag without registering it in a vehicles name. It cost R50 but you get the R50 then in kredit. In other words the 'device' is ??? Free
If you register you even have a choice not to take the tag, you will then pay prepaid money or deposit money into your account just like the tag and will get the same discounted tariffs. It simply works on yopur number plat but the disadvantage is that:
1) You can not use the e tag bay on the bakwena toll gates (it works on e tag)
2) You will have to monitor your account as you will not get the '2 x warning beep' from the tag to warn that credit runs low.

What I don't appreciate on this and some other threads is that when you decide to get tagged and pay for the service, whatever your reason (like want to use the e tag bay on the bakwena roads which you often travel and don't want to wait at the traditional gates in long quees) or like in my case work as a paramedic on sanral roads to serve the public people will call you on theWD forum as 'coward' or 'spine less' or iddiots. I bet if you really come to meet me face to face if you have the balls to face me you will not call me any of those names. Not for me or any of my colleagues. We always talk about a democratic country, freedom of speech etc but if you don't like any others view and ideas he gets insulted. It shows very bad caracter.

I am on a official motorbike, responding to accidents in the midrand area. I cover John vorster to annadale and proudly display my wd paw on the back of my helmet. Many bikers recognise me daily, wafe and give me the thumbs up. I don't like the system as it cost me money as well, I commute from pta to midrand every weekday, however what I do like a well maintained, monitored and safer road with road assistanse and emergency medical care. The only difference between the e toll system an the conventional toll gate system is that you don't need to stand in long quees any longer. They try to maintain traffic flow. If only it can be a bit cheaper and stay then sort of affortable I can life with it as long as they keep up with the service and condition of the road.....



AFAIK anybody can buy an e-tag and destroy it without ever registering it - A lost or stolen e-tag will cost you R150 once you have registered it - so an e-tag probably costs Sanral R150 - but essentially, we will be wasting our own taxes if we destroy e-tags - I doubt if this will bring the system to it's knees

Gauteng pays 60% of all the taxes in the country already - we only receive R1 for every R4 taxes we pay in Gauteng from the fiscus, so we are already subsidising the rest of the country with 75% of our taxes and all this BEFORE e-tolls

For the taxes we already pay, Gauteng should have the best roads in the country in order to keep the economy here running optimally

People that simply keep on paying more and more are supporting govt corruption - it's like the frog in the pot that stays there till the water boils.....

We have to make the system unmanageable, by refusing to cooperate - I will only pay once a judge orders me to
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: TVB on December 24, 2013, 12:41:24 pm
If you buy a tag (without registering) you stick it to your windscreen and immediately as you go through the gantry it registers (or read) it with your number plates. All electronically - it alsoi takes money by virtual image (2 x cameras) as per type of vehicle. So what is the point in doing this? If you want to buy a tag and you register you pay at the discounted rates, or am I missing the point here? I just can't see the benefit of buying a tag without registering. In any case they will know who you are just by number plates.

I have asked one of the violation centres managers what will happen to the 'fok e toll' number plates and he laughed and said that the system will actually direct all thos to an 'unknow account'. They are all just working here, in fact, most of them working here is just glad to have a job but very much against the money making sceme. He also told me that a group of experts was sent down to CT to start planning on the system down there :(
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on December 24, 2013, 01:21:42 pm
I one complies , then one is supporting the beast
Don't register , don't respond to any sMS's os e-mail from scumral , they are corrupt , thieving , despicable locusts. Finnish en klaar
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: jogi_c on December 24, 2013, 01:26:39 pm
OK, back to tactics. I am no tax expert, but AFAIK if you charge VAT, you have to issue a tax invoice. It seems SANRAL does not want to issue invoices for one of 2 reasons - the cost of issuing invoices will make it prohibitive, or there is a problem with their systems at the moment. I think it is a cost issue.

So, if there is a dog here that has a registered business that is VAT registered, send SANRAL a registered letter demanding a valid VAT invoice. If they do not comply, lodge a complaint with SARS. Insist that SARS investigate and give you answers. Take the issue to Outa and Justice project if SARS do not want to play ball (This issue has been pointed out to SANRAL in May already)

The whole idea is to either get SARS to tell them they must stop as they are not complying with VAT law, or to force a precedent that will compel them to start issuing invoices - that puts the cost issue back on the table.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 24, 2013, 03:15:57 pm
OK, back to tactics. I am no tax expert, but AFAIK if you charge VAT, you have to issue a tax invoice. It seems SANRAL does not want to issue invoices for one of 2 reasons - the cost of issuing invoices will make it prohibitive, or there is a problem with their systems at the moment. I think it is a cost issue.

So, if there is a dog here that has a registered business that is VAT registered, send SANRAL a registered letter demanding a valid VAT invoice. If they do not comply, lodge a complaint with SARS. Insist that SARS investigate and give you answers. Take the issue to Outa and Justice project if SARS do not want to play ball (This issue has been pointed out to SANRAL in May already)

The whole idea is to either get SARS to tell them they must stop as they are not complying with VAT law, or to force a precedent that will compel them to start issuing invoices - that puts the cost issue back on the table.

I like that! They should have taken legal advice before embarking on this moronic, expensive collection system (or at least have employed legal expertise with a modicom of brains).
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on December 24, 2013, 03:42:02 pm
http://www.youtube.com/v/QxEBGVCIBW8
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Triple Trompie on December 24, 2013, 07:42:50 pm
So I today I drove under 4 gantries. And the strangest thing happened, both my hands get stuck to the windscreen, giving Nazi Alli and his cronies the middle finger.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on December 25, 2013, 06:33:49 am
http://www.youtube.com/v/QxEBGVCIBW8

I watched this on Ignition. I am all for it.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: XT JOE on December 27, 2013, 11:37:00 am
http://www.youtube.com/v/QxEBGVCIBW8

Mind made up
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 27, 2013, 01:39:31 pm


Mind made up

You had to THINK about it?  :laughing4:

It's never going to work - these morons haven't thought of 1% of the possibilities that will sink this idiotic collection system.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on December 27, 2013, 06:55:03 pm
It seems that only people that have registered with Scamrail receive invoices.  :lol8: :lol8:

They do not seem to have anybody else's info and they are not allowed to access the E-natis records legally. By their own laws they must send you a valid invoice.   

As long as there are people out there with tags they are collecting money and this will become like Aarto.
The rest will be left alone.

We must thank these people for their sacrifice.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: buzzlightyear on December 27, 2013, 07:01:37 pm
 :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on December 28, 2013, 08:32:09 am
Scumral keep on like a stubborn donkey! They are heading for a serious financial fuckup and we, the taxpayers, will have to foot the bill. What is it going to take to get them to drop this moronic collection system?
This extract from news24:


E-tolls, strikes dominate business news
Dec 27 2013 15:41 Fin24   

 
Cape Town - The tolling of Gauteng highways as part of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP) is undoubtedly 2013's biggest business event that has and is still gripping SA consumers.

Despite numerous court cases, protests and extensive media coverage, the e-tolls system kicked in on December 3.

The signing of the transport laws and related matters amendment bill into law has stoked fears that e-tolling will now be expanded in Gauteng and be implemented faster in the rest of the country.

Meanwhile more individual motorists have joined opposition parties, activist groups, labour unions and churches against the system they called inefficient and irrational.

Sanral was the only exception to the misery with which the arrival of e-tolling on Gauteng highways was greeted.   
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on December 28, 2013, 09:11:47 am
Scumral keep on like a stubborn donkey! They are heading for a serious financial fuckup and we, the taxpayers, will have to foot the bill. What is it going to take to get them to drop this moronic collection system?
This extract from news24:


E-tolls, strikes dominate business news
Dec 27 2013 15:41 Fin24   

 
Cape Town - The tolling of Gauteng highways as part of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project (GFIP) is undoubtedly 2013's biggest business event that has and is still gripping SA consumers.

Despite numerous court cases, protests and extensive media coverage, the e-tolls system kicked in on December 3.

The signing of the transport laws and related matters amendment bill into law has stoked fears that e-tolling will now be expanded in Gauteng and be implemented faster in the rest of the country.

Meanwhile more individual motorists have joined opposition parties, activist groups, labour unions and churches against the system they called inefficient and irrational.

Sanral was the only exception to the misery with which the arrival of e-tolling on Gauteng highways was greeted.   

You are a true ambassodor of skamrail.  :lol8: :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 03, 2014, 07:46:29 am
news24 (and especially fin24) are carrying plenty of stories of the misery suffered by those who bought e-tags and now have to deal with Scumral's "invoicing" system. I don't usually get satisfaction from other people's misery, but these stories are amusing, especially the lambasting these poor suckers receive in the comments section!

This is an example of the frustration being felt by those who bought into this farce:

http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/More-anger-about-e-tolls-20140102 (http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/More-anger-about-e-tolls-20140102)

Edit: Sorry, I was thinking of this report! There are so many hard luck stories!  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/Pre-paid-e-toll-fees-disappear-20140102 (http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/Pre-paid-e-toll-fees-disappear-20140102)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: TVB on January 03, 2014, 09:29:57 am
news24 (and especially fin24) are carrying plenty of stories of the misery suffered by those who bought e-tags and now have to deal with Scumral's "invoicing" system. I don't usually get satisfaction from other people's misery, but these stories are amusing, especially the lambasting these poor suckers receive in the comments section!

This is an example of the frustration being felt by those who bought into this farce:

http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/More-anger-about-e-tolls-20140102 (http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/More-anger-about-e-tolls-20140102)

Edit: Sorry, I was thinking of this report! There are so many hard luck stories!  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/Pre-paid-e-toll-fees-disappear-20140102 (http://www.fin24.com/MyFin24/Pre-paid-e-toll-fees-disappear-20140102)

Strange that there are people with frustrations and problems ??? Who bought the tags. I am working for them like most of you know and we are seeing people returning to 'top up' and reporting that it works well. You only get frustrated if you own them money: by saying that what I mean is that it is a prepaid system and the invoice only reflect 'prepaid' and if you log unto your account it shows you the number of gantries you used and the cost deducted from your prepaid account. The only unhappyt customers I saw was the ones that bought their tags late and now have to 'catch up and pay' but even though the accounts are more than 3 weeks old once they pay still get the discounted tarriff.

After helping a guy who was been involved in an accident with a 'fuck E toll' sticker he asked me to please remove it and decided to go and register. I asked him why because I am also (although working here) against the shit although I can see that the roads are now maintained, and services rendered like in his case medical assistance and roll back recovery ( although only to the nearest fuel station). He said he can feel the pressure of the outstanding amount in his name and if those who still oppose fail and have to pay it's going to cripple him financially. He rather like most other wants to play it safe.

Can I make something clear again - not rumours, I am working here although as a medic; when you buy a tag it is only for that specific vehicle and you sighn for the vehicle. You are not registered for life and like some say fucked now - no sir, you just register a vehicle. If you sell this vehicle or decide you are going to avoid the toll roads you are free to de' register the vehicle. Yes we all know about the avis vehicle that was written off and still got billed on the back of a rollback. Why? Because e mails etc takes time. You simply remove the tag ( they will also advice you to do this) and de register it from the vehicle. You can now register another vehicle in this tags name (serial number) or decide not to use it again.

No need to feel sorry for any tag buyers. They may share your view that yes it is money making and rediculous and what ever else our corrupt Goverment will come up with, but you are not 'screwed now'. Keep it pre paid and up to date and you will have no worries at all for those that bought it.
Mine cost me next to nothing, use only 2 gantries a day but the beneffit is that it works on bakwena toll gates. No more waiting in a quee to pay, shoot past and away you go
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: PierreO on January 03, 2014, 09:38:14 am
So we must all show them they a bunch of runts and buy tags ? That will show them who is boss ! Seriaaas .
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 03, 2014, 02:08:06 pm
some handy facts from JPSA in PDF attached

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on January 03, 2014, 05:16:22 pm
i am sure people that get raped in the bum dont agree with it either , but you dont see them carrying vaseline ( e tags)  to make it easier for the bum shaggers
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 03, 2014, 08:01:58 pm
So from the JPSA doc they must by law send you an invoice. This need not be by registered mail. So how will they prove that you received said mail? (Especially since we know the Post Office history)

Then they refer to the vehicle and not the user. So will they send my vehicle an invoice?   :lol8:

They must then prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was actually my vehicle......(even Scamrail refer to the many duplicate plates out there)
This after proving in the constitutional court that the hole e-toll thing is valid. 

Ye right

As before.....to all those that have registered and have tags, thank you for paying on our behalf.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 03, 2014, 08:12:58 pm
So from the JPSA doc they must by law send you an invoice. This need not be by registered mail. So how will they prove that you received said mail?

they can't and if a couple of thousand people say they got nothing, whilst the PO workers have stated their dislike in the system, the judge will have to have an opinion.... ;) ;D
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on January 03, 2014, 08:16:06 pm
I am still waiting for said invoice in any form or notification . So sanral  :middlefinger: :middlefinger:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 03, 2014, 08:24:01 pm
I've used the highways extensively and I'm not really even interested to see my account - I'm not paying until a judge forces me to :sip:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on January 03, 2014, 08:26:32 pm
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: friggs on January 03, 2014, 08:27:30 pm
So I today I drove under 4 gantries. And the strangest thing happened, both my hands get stuck to the windscreen, giving Nazi Alli and his cronies the middle finger.

I do exactly the same thing every time I drive under one... It just happens, dont even think about it but as I pass underneath they shoot forward and up... strange.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on January 04, 2014, 07:01:09 am
I am still waiting for my invoices.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on January 04, 2014, 09:22:47 am
got my first one as per sms , yesterday ........... how the fook did they get my number !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fukkem
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 04, 2014, 11:48:17 am
SMS scamming.... don't reply. They send out random "outstanding amounts" & threaten to hand you over. An SMS is not a legal document, and an invoice can only be valid if you have either signed a contract or the invoice itself. No invoice.. no payment. Only if you register for e-tag, does it constitute an "agreement/contract". Ignore the scumral, and they will disappear like the National Health Insurance did! I recon they will be forgotten by May this year!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Herklaas on January 04, 2014, 12:56:07 pm
 :deal: Die Burger vandag, bls. 2 Mnr. Louis Tyler-Scott se pa is in Okt 2012 oorlede, het op sy selfoon 'n rekening gekry dat hy R612.00 skuld. Hy het twee jaar voor sy dood laas 'n kar gehad.Cyndy Poluta aanbieder by Eye Witness News het sms gekry dat sy R3 520. skuld .Sy se sy het die N1 al drie keer gebruik. Bejaarde dame van Kaapstad het 'n aanmaning gekry per sms sy was 15 jaar laas in Gautengeleng.
Wayne Duvenage van Outa se die stelsel raak vinniger 'n klug as wat verwag is. :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 04, 2014, 03:11:40 pm
Some have been sent sms's where they don't live in Gauteng... and best of all don't even own a car!!..... Scamral is desperately looking to "spook" people into their unworkable & corrupt system. It appears that the system is failing and breaking down far quicker than thought! Whatever you do... DON'T Register for E-tag! :3some:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: MegaPix on January 04, 2014, 07:55:31 pm
I stay in Polokwane... A friend of mine that never goes tomGauteng got a sms this morning

Farkin assholes
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on January 13, 2014, 11:16:02 am
Found 3 Transaction reports(3 pages each in total,. Correspondence,Transaction report, Copy Tax Invoice) and one Account Statement(two pages in total) in the post box this morning. They seem to be pretty accurate with the exception that none of them reflect transactions through 35 BEE-EATER(Atlas Rd Gantry) and 34ILANDA(Rondebult Gantry) - So that confirms those are offline.

None of the letters were registered but I believe this is not a requirement and JPSA confirms that.

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/94372-etoll-facts.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/94372-etoll-facts.html)

So this is the way the tariffs are working, 33 Gull Gantry(no time of day discount was applicable in this case)

Class 1 VLN Rate: R6.38
Class 1 E-Tag Rate: R3.30
Class 1 Alternate Users Rate: R19.14 ( Where do they get this rate? It's 67% more than the standard VLN Rate and 83% more than the E-tag Rate)

The total indicated on the one invoice is R332.19 yet below the Total amount it states if I pay before the 26th on Jan it will be discounted to R133.19, What's this 60% discount for? . It also seems there is no seven day rule as they have threatened.

These clowns are thieves !

Some info on the tariffs: http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/88719-e-toll-prices-what-some-might-pay.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/88719-e-toll-prices-what-some-might-pay.html)

So what am I going to do? Wait for my summons and appearance in court  :thumleft:

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 13, 2014, 01:06:33 pm
mox, obviously those tariffs make no real sense and are purely there to 'force' us to get tagged

I will be waiting for a summons - if enough of us do that, which I believe, the courts will be very, very busy.....
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on January 13, 2014, 07:34:12 pm
When you guys get a tax invoice from SANRAL, don't forget to send it to SARS as a travel expense. It doesn't matter if you've paid it or not, a tax invoice is a legit expense.


But now if you do that and get a tax advantage of about 30% of the value of the bill, and after all of SANRAL's costs, Kapsches profit and the various other costs involved are deducted from the tolled amount,  the net effect will be farkall of the toll money goes anywhere near a road! What a pointless exercise.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on January 13, 2014, 07:47:40 pm
I am waiting for my invoice.  :sip:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tonteldoos on January 13, 2014, 11:11:54 pm
did get an invoice..  but since Iam being invoice R17.60 for a R3.60 gantry they can either farkoff or wait...
Just a Q, how can they put up a sign stating the cost is R3.60 but then send you an invoice for R17.60?
Surely this is not legit
My thinking is if the sign states R17.60 but then you get Scamrall discount  for whateva reason being tagged bla bla, then may it is legit.
But for me this is misleading the public, Fraud comes to mind.. but then they are not called scamrall for nothing
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 13, 2014, 11:21:27 pm
yes, I've read that many think that that could be an argument, but I'm not really putting any effort into ducking and diving..... I'm in 'take us all to court and lock your tax payers up' mode now - flat ignore to Sanral from my side - I have STILL not received any notification from those fuckers, but even that doesn't interest me
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 18, 2014, 08:20:35 am
More and more complaints are surfacing and getting exposure in newspapers. As a service to provide a channel to register complaints about e-tolling, the DA has offered to assist:


"DA calls for submission of e-tolls complaints
Jan 16 2014 15:17 Sapa   

E-tolls

(Sapa)
Related Articles
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No debt relief for e-tolls, warns Sanral
Ramphele: E-tolls creating big fiscal hole
Some complaints are genuine, admits Sanral
Sanral denies e-toll tag numbers claim
Sanral has 'bully-boy mentality' - Outa

 
Johannesburg - Gauteng motorists can submit e-toll complaints to the DA, which will pass them on to the National Consumer Commission, the party said on Thursday.

"It has become very clear over the past couple of weeks that the e-toll billing system is not working," said the DA's Gauteng premier candidate Mmusi Maimane.

"In fact, residents of this province are being unfairly bullied into paying their bills."

In a speech prepared for delivery in Soshanguve, he said motorists with complaints about the collection of e-tolls could e-mail enocentn@da.org.za or post a picture of the SMS or bill they had received on Twitter @DA_News, using the hashtag #No2etolls.

"Mounting evidence suggests that many of these bills are incorrect or are sent without due process or prior invoicing," Maimane said.

He told residents they would go through at least 14 gantries on a return trip between Soshanguve and Johannesburg, at a cost of almost R38.

"I have a plan to fight e-tolling both now and if elected premier of Gauteng."

Maimane has previously vowed to hold a referendum on e-tolling if he is elected as premier.

The DA has launched a court action challenging the classification of the bill governing the roll out of e-tolling.

On September 25, President Jacob Zuma signed into law the Transport Laws and Related Matters Amendment Bill, giving the go-ahead for e-tolling in Gauteng.

The DA believed the bill was incorrectly passed by parliament and signed into law by Zuma.

It contended that the constitution made a distinction between bills that had an impact on national government and those which affected provincial government.

The party maintains that the bill was incorrectly tagged as a national competency."

As an example from Thursday's Star:

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 18, 2014, 08:41:48 am
And some readers' complaints (Star 16 and 17 Jan):
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 20, 2014, 08:17:16 am
SANRAL gave me a credit , I now have more money in my account that what I started with???? Viva Sanral Viva !!!!!!

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 20, 2014, 08:19:58 am
SANRAL gave me a credit , I now have more money in my account that what I started with???? Viva Sanral Viva !!!!!!



Ha, ha! I suggest you cash it before they wake up!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mikie on January 20, 2014, 08:35:32 am
They really dont knwo if they are coming or going

How much extra?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 20, 2014, 12:07:00 pm
SANRAL gave me a credit , I now have more money in my account that what I started with???? Viva Sanral Viva !!!!!!



It is payment for all the e-tag propaganda that you have been spreading.....bloody agent :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 20, 2014, 12:21:17 pm
SANRAL gave me a credit , I now have more money in my account that what I started with???? Viva Sanral Viva !!!!!!



It is payment for all the e-tag propaganda that you have been spreading.....bloody agent :laughing4:

 :biggrin:

hey, I better invoice em within 39 days for morethen
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on January 20, 2014, 12:23:33 pm
SANRAL gave me a credit , I now have more money in my account that what I started with???? Viva Sanral Viva !!!!!!



That was a reward for being the only one to register.....
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 20, 2014, 02:10:34 pm
Whoooo Hooooo, I got an e-toll account for my bike trailer  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Nothing else, seems like it has been towing it self around Gauteng.  :ricky:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 20, 2014, 02:18:35 pm
Whoooo Hooooo, I got an e-toll account for my bike trailer  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Nothing else, seems like it has been towing it self around Gauteng.  :ricky:

:lol8:
I'm amazed by how many mistakes there are....

3 of my friends have now received incorrect accounts and they have decided to just ignore them

I'm still waiting for my 1st account, which will also be ignored
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mikie on January 20, 2014, 02:18:55 pm
Whoooo Hooooo, I got an e-toll account for my bike trailer  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Nothing else, seems like it has been towing it self around Gauteng.  :ricky:


Has it been on the highway?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 20, 2014, 03:29:23 pm
According to them yes. But I never took it on the highway.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 20, 2014, 07:19:22 pm
A fellow WD's KLR has magically turned into a 1400 Nissan bakkie.... WTF?

One of my vehicles was billed for R149.04 for going from edenvale to roodepoort ..... apart from the fact that this particular vehicle wasn't even in Gauteng at the time....WTF?

Now CEO's of ETC (Electronic Toll Collection) are resigning with immediate effect.... WTF?.... do they see their system failing faster than they thought? >:D :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:...... they obviously were expecting more citizens to pay their salaries.... not from me 'bru! :bootyshake:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alanB on January 21, 2014, 06:55:00 am
Quote
Consumer body to field e-toll complaints

January 20 2014 at 07:41pm
By SAPA

Comment on this story
Copy of PN e-tolls9844

INLSA

Motorists started paying for e-tolls on Gauteng freeways from December 3. Photo: Oupa Mokoena

Related Stories

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    Toll collections COO resigned ‘for personal reasons’
    ‘I am not going to pay my e-tolls bill’
    Toll collector COO resigns
    E-toll shock for Durban driver
    DA to pass on your e-toll complaints
    Things you may not know about e-tolls

Johannesburg - Complaints about e-tolling will be taken up by the National Consumer Commission (NCC), but should not be the first line of complaint, Commissioner Ebrahim Mohamed said on Monday.

“The NCC always encourages consumers to lodge complaints at the point of sale, and attempts to have their complaints dealt with there,” he said.

If consumers were met with indifference or felt their complaints were not adequately addressed by the company or entity, they could then take the matter up with the NCC.

“This does not preclude consumers from approaching the NCC 1/8with their complaints,” Mohamed said.

The Democratic Alliance and the Freedom Front Plus recently announced that they would facilitate motorists' e-toll accounts complaints by submitting them to the NCC.

Mohamed said the commission would investigate the complaints, but had to do so within its constrained resources.

“It is our mandate to assist consumers, and we will.

“What we would do is set up a team to look at these complaints, and categorise them.”

The NCC would then discuss the categories of problems identified with the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) and look at ways of resolving the problems.

Mohamed said the NCC was not an adjudication body, and did not have the power to declare an account invalid.

However, it could refer the matter to the Consumer Tribunal, which had greater powers in this regard.

On Monday, the FFPlus said it would lodge a complaint with the NCC about problems with e-toll accounts based on a number of problems Gauteng motorists had experienced with the e-tolling system.

“These complaints form part of the party's continued opposition to toll roads... in its struggle against the abuse of the system by Sanral,” FFPlus transport spokesman Anton Alberts said in a statement.

So far, complaints included the incorrect breakdown of costs on e-toll accounts, accounts wrongfully issued to people who had not used the tolled roads, and the higher toll prices for motorists who chose not to get e-tags.

The FFPlus said it would launch a website later in the week to help people with e-toll complaints to submit them to the NCC.

The Democratic Alliance launched a similar initiative last week.

Sanral could not immediately be reached for comment.

On January 10, Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona reportedly conceded there had been some glitches in the e-toll collection system.

However, he said there were not a large number of “genuine” complaints, and that those complaints lodged with the consumer satisfaction website, Hellopeter.com, were being handled by Sanral's public relations department.

“We are not breaking any laws or violating people's privacy,” he said.

Sanral has repeatedly urged Gauteng drivers to become registered for the system, as e-tag holders qualify for reduced e-toll fees.

Sapa
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 21, 2014, 07:52:33 am
More and more complaints are surfacing and getting exposure in newspapers. As a service to provide a channel to register complaints about e-tolling, the DA has offered to assist:


"DA calls for submission of e-tolls complaints
Jan 16 2014 15:17 Sapa   


Wonder if they are going to use it as a case against e-tolls?

Now imagine if the e-toll system crashes.  All the poor people who paid dutifully or in advance will just be out of pocket. Doubt if they will be refunded.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: jogi_c on January 21, 2014, 09:12:46 am
Got my first one in the post today. Not an invoice, just a statement.

I will be sending them a friendly request for an invoice and proof via registered post
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on January 21, 2014, 09:37:35 am
More and more complaints are surfacing and getting exposure in newspapers. As a service to provide a channel to register complaints about e-tolling, the DA has offered to assist:


"DA calls for submission of e-tolls complaints
Jan 16 2014 15:17 Sapa   


Wonder if they are going to use it as a case against e-tolls?

Now imagine if the e-toll system crashes.  All the poor people who paid dutifully or in advance will just be out of pocket. Doubt if they will be refunded.

People didnt get tagged , sheeple did , and its very rare (never) that thieves give refunds
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Maddoglips on January 21, 2014, 09:41:34 am

[/quote]

People didnt get tagged , sheeple did , and its very rare (never) that thieves give refunds
[/quote]

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 21, 2014, 10:10:45 am
Even if the billing system crashes they will keep on deducting money from the tagged ones as they have a contract where these people agreed to pay and pay and pay.......
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 21, 2014, 10:20:50 am
Even if the billing system crashes they will keep on deducting money from the tagged ones as they have a contract where these people agreed to pay and pay and pay.......

tagged guys could of course let their account run dry or cancel their e-tags - if people get away without paying, I'm expecting this to start happening
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: PierreO on January 21, 2014, 10:23:23 am
Even if the billing system crashes they will keep on deducting money from the tagged ones as they have a contract where these people agreed to pay and pay and pay.......

tagged guys could of course let their account run dry or cancel their e-tags - if people get away without paying, I'm expecting this to start happening

Only problem with these turkeys are that they have signed an agreemunt with Scamral !!!!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 21, 2014, 10:47:45 am
Yep there in lies the problem for them. They have a contract and if they use the highway without paying Scamrail can really come down on them.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 21, 2014, 10:57:47 am
Whoooo Hooooo, I got an e-toll account for my bike trailer  :imaposer: :imaposer:

Nothing else, seems like it has been towing it self around Gauteng.  :ricky:

Just got back from a Scamrail service centre, I tried to tell them that they are billing for my trailer and that it had to my best knowledge not even been on the highway. Eeee, sorry sa, to lodge a dispute you must register...... If you register you must agree to the their terms one being that if they reject your dispute for any reason you are responsible for all cost and have no further claim against them......ye right!

Suffice to say I have tried and it is now their problem to prove that I owe them any money. Good luck with that! 

Thing is, there was a que of about 20 people all with the same or similar complaints, all with the same reaction. Not one person was there to pay their accounts that I could see.  Everybody pissed with Scamrail.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mikie on January 21, 2014, 11:02:57 am
Fuck them
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Ganjora on January 21, 2014, 11:12:21 am
Fuck them

was in Cresta at the weekend,  and had to walk past the toll-e office on the way to the post boxes.
made a very loud comment to my wife,  which everyone heard:  look at them babe,  queing up to pay their corruption at a 50% discount - bloody disgusting...
got some unpleasant looks,  but fuckem.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mikie on January 21, 2014, 11:13:38 am
Fuck them

was in Cresta at the weekend,  and had to walk past the toll-e office on the way to the post boxes.
made a very loud comment to my wife,  which everyone heard:  look at them babe,  queing up to pay their corruption at a 50% discount - bloody disgusting...
got some unpleasant looks,  but fuckem.

Sheep!!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on January 21, 2014, 11:14:30 am
Fuck them


And all that "support" them
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on January 21, 2014, 11:19:04 am
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 21, 2014, 11:25:00 am
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 


the magic moment will be when the 1st non-payers are summonsed and what then happens in court
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on January 21, 2014, 11:28:23 am
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 


the magic moment will be when the 1st non-payers are summonsed and what then happens in court

Probably right, I guess OUTA and JPSA will provide lawyers.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 21, 2014, 11:35:55 am
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 


the magic moment will be when the 1st non-payers are summonsed and what then happens in court

Probably right, I guess OUTA and JPSA will provide lawyers.

at your cost naturally, mebbe that their angle....
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on January 21, 2014, 11:40:46 am
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 


the magic moment will be when the 1st non-payers are summonsed and what then happens in court

Probably right, I guess OUTA and JPSA will provide lawyers.

at your cost naturally, mebbe that their angle....

Blink.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 21, 2014, 12:00:24 pm
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 

Suppose it will carry on indefinitely.  Sanral will accept the money of those who pay, hand over the big outstanding accounts to collecting agencies and the rest will fall through the cracks.  Somewhere along the line they will sort out some of their problems which I hope does not happen.

But what can be done to stop them due to gross mismanagement?  Jhb City accounts have been running like that for ages and it is just the consumer that suffers.

Outa or the Courts can't tell Sanral "Hey your system is not working, shut it down"  They can just say "Hey you have to rectify your system". Or is there a way that Sanral can be stopped?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: paulb on January 21, 2014, 12:02:14 pm
Begin heel bo met n .22  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on January 21, 2014, 12:06:52 pm

Outa or the Courts can't tell Sanral "Hey your system is not working, shut it down"  They can just say "Hey you have to rectify your system". Or is there a way that Sanral can be stopped?

There is the constitutional angle of transparancy and cost effectiveness of a tax, but at the moment I don't see an end to this BS.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 21, 2014, 12:08:19 pm
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 

Suppose it will carry on indefinitely.  Sanral will accept the money of those who pay, hand over the big outstanding accounts to collecting agencies and the rest will fall through the cracks.  Somewhere along the line they will sort out some of their problems which I hope does not happen.

But what can be done to stop them due to gross mismanagement?  Jhb City accounts have been running like that for ages and it is just the consumer that suffers.

Outa or the Courts can't tell Sanral "Hey your system is not working, shut it down"  They can just say "Hey you have to rectify your system". Or is there a way that Sanral can be stopped?

the faults in the system, will just strengthen OUTAs case that it is an overly complex system that could have been achieved easily with a fuel levy

I think the only reason to stop Sanral, will be if it can be proven that sufficient public participation in the collection method was not sought - if one looks at the massive public outcry, that seems to be the case
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: PierreO on January 21, 2014, 12:13:35 pm
Die dom bliksems wil nog meer geld steel , so ek gee nie 'n foek om wat Outa , DA of Sanral se nie , ek sal nie betaal nie . KLA .
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 21, 2014, 12:13:47 pm
GPS -guided target-drones?? >:D They can watch their gantrys getting destroyed on their own cameras!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Maddoglips on January 21, 2014, 12:15:50 pm
GPS -guided target-drones?? >:D They can watch their gantrys getting destroyed on their own cameras!

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tr0jan on January 21, 2014, 01:27:51 pm
... because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 

...Jhb City accounts have been running like that for ages and it is just the consumer that suffers.



There is not physically anything stopping you from driving on the highway, so yes, it could quite possibly continue for a long, long time! But ill still not pay out of principle.

City accounts are different, dont pay, water and electricity gets cut, so you shutup and obey. There are no booms on the highway...
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: jogi_c on January 21, 2014, 04:17:10 pm
OK, so yesterday I got a statement. Today I got the transaction breakdown and the invoice, plus a photo of one gantry.

So we are up to two letters with postage, plus 4 printed pages, and that is only for one day, 4 December.

If they are continuing to send me 2 letters and how many pages for each day I am starting a paper recycling business - Scamral will provide me with the raw material

 ;D
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Beebop on January 21, 2014, 04:37:38 pm
I see the Midrand Sanrall offices were evacuated after and envelope containing a white powder was found.
The statement says that the premises were evacuated and power shut down, so the e-tolling system was
down for a short while...

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Sanral-confirms-evacuation-20140121 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Sanral-confirms-evacuation-20140121)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 21, 2014, 04:54:22 pm
Most likely the cocaine that was ordered for tonight's brass party that somebody in the mail room opened by accident. The scammers must have gotten their first big kickback.......
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 21, 2014, 05:10:44 pm
Most likely the cocaine that was ordered for tonight's brass party that somebody in the mail room opened by accident. The scammers must have gotten their first big kickback.......
Nah!... just OMO powder to clean up their dirty deeds!......
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Herminator on January 21, 2014, 06:02:32 pm
Got my bill today

Which went directly into the bin.

Let the stalling begin
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: trackSHUN on January 22, 2014, 08:15:17 am
OK, so yesterday I got a statement. Today I got the transaction breakdown and the invoice, plus a photo of one gantry.

So we are up to two letters with postage, plus 4 printed pages, and that is only for one day, 4 December.

If they are continuing to send me 2 letters and how many pages for each day I am starting a paper recycling business - Scamral will provide me with the raw material

 ;D

To date, for the period 03-07 Dec 2013 I have received 8 copies [3 pages each] of Transaction Report & Invoice for 2 vehicles, and 8 copies of Statement of Account for these 2 Invoices... !!!

This is 24 individual letters of 3 pages each + envelope + postage, in order to recover the princely sum of R11.90 and R40 odd [discounted amounts].

The logic and sustainability of this does not make sense ... ??
Mondi recycling will be the only business making a profit fron the SCAMROL e-toll debacle   ::)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 22, 2014, 08:25:10 am
So the current situation is about two thirds to three quarters of road users are not registered and are either not or reluctantly paying or querying and demanding paperwork. SANRAL on the other hand is carrying on as if it is business as usual, despite it being a rolling f*ck up. My question is, who is going to blink first and give up? What will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because the current situation can carry on indefinitely. 

Suppose it will carry on indefinitely.  Sanral will accept the money of those who pay, hand over the big outstanding accounts to collecting agencies and the rest will fall through the cracks.  Somewhere along the line they will sort out some of their problems which I hope does not happen.

But what can be done to stop them due to gross mismanagement?  Jhb City accounts have been running like that for ages and it is just the consumer that suffers.

Outa or the Courts can't tell Sanral "Hey your system is not working, shut it down"  They can just say "Hey you have to rectify your system". Or is there a way that Sanral can be stopped?


When enough of us don't register and/or don't pay, the collection system will fail to deliver enough cash to pay off their debts - plus, they have to pay ETC (Kapsch) to run the system. It's just not sustainable!

DON'T get an e-tag!
Or, at least, for those who have been bullied into it, respond ONLY when you get an invoice, then query the substance of the account.  The idiots who run the system can't cope. The collection system is failing!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DRAZIL on January 22, 2014, 09:42:33 am
soon the scumrail staff will go on strike for pay increases and their reason will be "eissch,the paper work it is too much"
 ::)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Kneeslider on January 23, 2014, 12:47:08 pm
The SA National Roads Agency (Sanral) must fix its billing mess before demanding payment for the use of e-tolled roads in Gauteng.

Consumer watchdog the National Consumer Commission said that, though Sanral had the right to demand payment from motorists for using e-tolled roads, its billing should be accurate and conform to good business practice.

The commission's head, Ebrahim Mohamed, yesterday said Sanral demanding payment without giving users the chance to query bills was "not proper practice''.

The onus was on Sanral to prove that a motorist had travelled on a specific road at a specific time, he said.

"The demand for payment, however it is communicated, has to be correct and accurate. It is incumbent on Sanral to prove to any consumer who raises a query that the road was used on a specific date, by a specific vehicle, and that the charge is based on set tariffs."

Sanral has come under fire for using "unlawful and extortionist tactics" to try to force frustrated motorists to pay "exorbitant" e-tolling bills.

With outrage mounting over "threatening" SMSes and e-mails, and incorrect billing, several bodies have urged motorists to complain to the National Consumer Commission.

Motorists have been receiving text messages from Sanral demanding payment. But they lack detail and proof of authenticity.

Motorists without e-tags have been shocked to learn that, if they did not pay Sanral within seven days of passing under a gantry, a triple toll is levied.

Mohamed disapproved of Sanral's response to queries from the public.

"The commission is of the view that it is not proper practice for consumers to be told to pay now and query later.

"If this is the case, it is a matter that consumers need to take up with Sanral's management."

Mohamed urged motorists to try to resolve their problems with Sanral first and if that had failed to approach the commission.

Some motorists have turned to public protector Thuli Madonsela for help.

Yesterday DA national spokesman and Gauteng premiership candidate Mmusi Maimane said the party had received over 300 complaints about Sanral's billing system.

"The most common complaints are about people not receiving invoices, incorrect amounts for travel and bills going to people who have not travelled recently.

"It is clear that Sanral's billing system is not working," said Maimane.

Maimane said his party would fight e-tolling "at every turn".

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/01/23/sanral-must-fix-billing (http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/01/23/sanral-must-fix-billing)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 25, 2014, 08:35:07 am
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!     My first invoice!

Let's see how much trouble they're willing to take in order to get money out of me!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tonteldoos on January 25, 2014, 09:17:52 am
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!     My first invoice!

Let's see how much trouble they're willing to take in order to get money out of me!
They are also very prescriptive in the way they want us to pay...
    Now I don't want to register for the "service" therefore I cannot pay...
    Do they really expect us to drive to a service center to "pay" for "services" rendered..
    Cash is a legal currency so If they don't want to accept it then its their problem
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on January 25, 2014, 09:37:02 am
It says no cash payments by POST will be accepted.

But I suppose that depositing cash into their FNB account will be acceptable. And they can pay the cash deposit fee.  :deal: :pot:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 25, 2014, 01:41:50 pm
Saw this about a week ago. Dunno how relevant, as I won't be paying anything.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on January 25, 2014, 01:56:32 pm
i dont care how they want to be paid ,  they owe me , its my road
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 25, 2014, 02:18:15 pm
i dont care how they want to be paid ,  they owe me , its my road


exactly! I don't recall them refunding me for the roads I helped build, so I'm assuming they are still mine - won't pay a fucken cent extra
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on January 25, 2014, 02:49:04 pm
that's all these 'invoices' are good for

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on January 25, 2014, 07:46:59 pm
mine is iin there somewhere  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: bmad on January 28, 2014, 06:59:17 am
These invoices are such a waste of paper  ::)

Besides the fact that i will not pay... 
i received 8 separate invoices in the post box yesterday. They are all 3 pages long and printed in full colour.
I commute on 2 different bikes and if i have important client meetings in the car, therefore many invoices as they are not combined.

The one invoice was for R5.20, surely it cost more than that to print, package and post to me, and i get a discount if i pay before a specific date.
A government bailout will be required later this year to handle their admin costs alone   :patch:

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Buffel B on January 28, 2014, 07:23:11 am
Ons moet saamstaan !!!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on January 28, 2014, 07:39:40 am
Yeo, not to mention the amount of incorrect invoices sent out, I have had several for my bike trailer, now my brother got one for his Conqueror Companion caravan, the photo shows a Hyundai bakkie with the caravans plates. As before, he tried to sort this out as this was clearly an error......sorry sir you must register to lodge a dispute. So we have to wait for the summons so that Scamrail can sort out their errors, how much more will this cost them?

Idiots!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 28, 2014, 08:54:56 am
Yeo, not to mention the amount of incorrect invoices sent out, I have had several for my bike trailer, now my brother got one for his Conqueror Companion caravan, the photo shows a Hyundai bakkie with the caravans plates. As before, he tried to sort this out as this was clearly an error......sorry sir you must register to lodge a dispute. So we have to wait for the summons so that Scamrail can sort out their errors, how much more will this cost them?

If you want to sort it out and they don't want to help then don't just leave it and wait for them to take you to court or whatever.
At least write them a letter and explain their mistake. Maybe even hand deliver and make anyone at their premises sign for it.
Then at least they can't do things like blacklist or sue you before they sorted out the problem. IMHO
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 28, 2014, 01:32:50 pm
They have yet to take someone to court for not paying...........that is going to start a storm! OUTA, DA and others just waiting.......
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 28, 2014, 01:42:40 pm
They have yet to take someone to court for not paying...........that is going to start a storm! OUTA, DA and others just waiting.......

Wonder if they will go the court route? 
Will probably use debt collectors and all that.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DRAZIL on January 28, 2014, 04:36:26 pm
Does a dept collector have the power to blacklist or do they also have to follow the paper path,proof of delivery, etc.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Kneeslider on January 28, 2014, 07:17:33 pm
Came across this on FB

Following the recent "postal workers strike" on Monday we received an email tip off from a concerned member of the public. This is apparently "fat stacks" of undelivered etoll invoices with 1 day's downtime on SAMPO's mail sorting machines. Gives you an idea of the scale of e-tolls extortion tactics. The first picture I just popped in there for dramatic effect you get my drift. Don't pay SCAMRAL, don't register for e-Skoll, keep it real and share this yo!

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/1509262_228961823955635_1167522810_n.png)

Another four pallets
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1003403_228961807288970_152775710_n.png)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 28, 2014, 07:23:20 pm
Could they please supply a softer type of paper?.... I'm running out of bogroll & oil-spill absorbers! :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on January 28, 2014, 07:24:07 pm
They're but totally screwed!

DON'T buy an e-tag! That's all that's needed.

Read the comments on news24 reports on e-tolling.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on February 12, 2014, 03:51:38 pm
I just received my first etoll invoice!!!

Yaaaaayyyy!!!! does this mean the post office strike is over?  :imaposer:

Silly farkers sent it to my OLD address... I moved in May last year and changed the address for the vehicles in June. And I KNOW that the NATIS system has the new addy sorted as I have received a speeding fine at the new address.

But something really interesting is the attached pic of the invoice. Seems we are no longer able to pay (hahaha! IF I was even thinking about paying this!  :imaposer: ) at a bank. Well, just another reason not to pay this invoice (ooh! a PUN!) any further attention.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on February 12, 2014, 04:34:12 pm
Some of you are lucky.  I'm STILL waiting for an invoice.  I'd like to frame it to someday show my little ones what the big ugly metal things over the highway were supposed to be used for.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on February 13, 2014, 07:33:53 am
Some of you are lucky.  I'm STILL waiting for an invoice.  I'd like to frame it to someday show my little ones what the big ugly metal things over the highway were supposed to be used for.

My luck ran out yesterday.  I received my first etoll invoice sent via post office. 21Rand. :biggrin: where should I pay or should I wait for them to collect it? :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Cracker on February 13, 2014, 08:06:08 am
I just received my first etoll invoice!!!

Yaaaaayyyy!!!! does this mean the post office strike is over?  :imaposer:

Silly farkers sent it to my OLD address... I moved in May last year and changed the address for the vehicles in June. And I KNOW that the NATIS system has the new addy sorted as I have received a speeding fine at the new address.

But something really interesting is the attached pic of the invoice. Seems we are no longer able to pay (hahaha! IF I was even thinking about paying this!  :imaposer: ) at a bank. Well, just another reason not to pay this invoice (ooh! a PUN!) any further attention.


Hm, wonder if the banks have told them to get f--ked as well - i hope so
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on February 13, 2014, 08:19:05 am
Some of you are lucky.  I'm STILL waiting for an invoice.  I'd like to frame it to someday show my little ones what the big ugly metal things over the highway were supposed to be used for.

My luck ran out yesterday.  I received my first etoll invoice sent via post office. 21Rand. :biggrin: where should I pay or should I wait for them to collect it? :lol8:

Hulle moerre.  Hulle kan daai geld by my kom persoonlik haal.  Dan kan ek vir hulle in hulle gesig sê om the fokof.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 13, 2014, 09:10:56 am

But something really interesting is the attached pic of the invoice. Seems we are no longer able to pay (hahaha! IF I was even thinking about paying this!  :imaposer: ) at a bank. Well, just another reason not to pay this invoice (ooh! a PUN!) any further attention.


Hm, wonder if the banks have told them to get f--ked as well - i hope so

Think it is just over the counter transactions they do not accept. They still accept EFT the way I see it.
Presume SANRAL don't want to accept the cost of over the counter transactions.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on February 13, 2014, 10:28:09 am

But something really interesting is the attached pic of the invoice. Seems we are no longer able to pay (hahaha! IF I was even thinking about paying this!  :imaposer: ) at a bank. Well, just another reason not to pay this invoice (ooh! a PUN!) any further attention.


Hm, wonder if the banks have told them to get f--ked as well - i hope so

Think it is just over the counter transactions they do not accept. They still accept EFT the way I see it.
Presume SANRAL don't want to accept the cost of over the counter transactions.

Well, as far as I know paper money is still legal tender in SA, and maybe I am not able to get to a Scamrail office to pay? And maybe I am under debt review and don't have ability to pay with a credit card? And there is no way I would EVER give them my CC details anyway... especially not over the phone.

And many citizens do not have access to internet or internet banking facilities...

Fukkem.  :ricky:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: alli on February 13, 2014, 01:52:29 pm
Got my etroll invoices too. Yippee !! Now I can officially boycott payments.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mikie on February 13, 2014, 01:54:25 pm
Got my etroll invoices too. Yippee !! Now I can officially boycott payments.

No need to buy Rizla'a anymore
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: IDR on February 14, 2014, 11:13:01 am
Got an e-mail this morning.  Keep in mind I have an e-toll account for a vehicle that is yet to be registered in my name.

Quote
We wish to advise you that your e-toll Account balance is below the Low Balance Threshold which you selected upon registering your e-toll Account and that payment should be made to avoid your e-toll Account from becoming inactive which is a temporary suspension of your account.

Should your account become inactive the toll booms at conventional toll plazas will not open automatically and you will be required to pay at the plaza using an alternative method of payment.

If your e-toll Account remains inactive for longer than the allowed grace period, any outstanding balance on it will be handed over to the Violations Processing Centre which may result in additional costs being incurred.

Balance: R 2.76

:imaposer:

Still not received anything for the bikes ???
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on February 14, 2014, 12:55:55 pm
I did,  :lol8: got one for my bike trailer...... :imaposer: :imaposer: Even sent the photo, ain't very clear but one can see the 2 enduro bikes on the trailer. Very funny!  :lol8: :lol8: Nothing for the Landrover towing the trailer......

So come on, send me the summons, I would love to take this one to court....
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 01:03:02 pm
I just hope that people don't go and query these incorrect accounts with Sanral...... why waste any of your time, if you can do it all at once and embarrass Sanral in a court of law - I feel under no obligation to fix their mistakes :sip:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on February 14, 2014, 03:18:20 pm
Yep, same with the caravan, sent me a photo showing a Hyundai bakkie with the caravan's plates. Will wait for the summons..... :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

The fun part of this is that the photo of the bike trailer only shows the trailers plate and not the tow car's plates at all. So please Mr. Prosecuter kindly proove that it was me...... :deal:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Cracker on February 14, 2014, 08:42:29 pm
In court, you gonna lose - we need this thing to die a death before then .......................
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 14, 2014, 08:44:49 pm
I just hope that people don't go and query these incorrect accounts with Sanral...... why waste any of your time, if you can do it all at once and embarrass Sanral in a court of law - I feel under no obligation to fix their mistakes :sip:

Would it not be worth it to send them queries so that they can spend some more time chasing their tail?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 08:58:02 pm
I just hope that people don't go and query these incorrect accounts with Sanral...... why waste any of your time, if you can do it all at once and embarrass Sanral in a court of law - I feel under no obligation to fix their mistakes :sip:

Would it not be worth it to send them queries so that they can spend some more time chasing their tail?

I don't believe so - they have massive budgets and can just employ more people or it will just delay the inevitable

I think if thousands fill the court rolls, it will send the strongest message
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 08:58:22 pm
In court, you gonna lose - we need this thing to die a death before then .......................

how?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Offshore on February 14, 2014, 09:24:56 pm
In court, you gonna lose - we need this thing to die a death before then .......................

how?
This thing will not die a sudden Death. There is too much at stake for them, they will anounce all sorts of sweetners like a Grace period without Penalties for first time offenders etc and slowly they will reel them in until we are all Farked. Our Justice System is farked anyway for small Offenders, you can duck and dive until Kingdom comes. So for us who think alike, fuckit lets have some fun and sing them a Hymn, Fuck him.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 09:36:21 pm
In court, you gonna lose - we need this thing to die a death before then .......................

how?
This thing will not die a sudden Death. There is too much at stake for them, they will anounce all sorts of sweetners like a Grace period without Penalties for first time offenders etc and slowly they will reel them in until we are all Farked. Our Justice System is farked anyway for small Offenders, you can duck and dive until Kingdom comes. So for us who think alike, fuckit lets have some fun and sing them a Hymn, Fuck him.

yip!  :thumleft:
I find it weird that many people piss and moan about the shitty govt, but when they get a once in a lifetime chance to fuck the govt around, they don't.... my strategy is not at all tiring for me, as it means I just do nothing, whilst Sanral runs around... and there are literally thousands of others, doing exactly what I'm doing
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on February 15, 2014, 06:02:41 am
In court, you gonna lose - we need this thing to die a death before then .......................

how?
This thing will not die a sudden Death. There is too much at stake for them, they will anounce all sorts of sweetners like a Grace period without Penalties for first time offenders etc and slowly they will reel them in until we are all Farked. Our Justice System is farked anyway for small Offenders, you can duck and dive until Kingdom comes. So for us who think alike, fuckit lets have some fun and sing them a Hymn, Fuck him.

yip!  :thumleft:
I find it weird that many people piss and moan about the shitty govt, but when they get a once in a lifetime chance to fuck the govt around, they don't.... my strategy is not at all tiring for me, as it means I just do nothing, whilst Sanral runs around... and there are literally thousands of others, doing exactly what I'm doing

Heeee the waiting game. :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Kneeslider on February 15, 2014, 06:17:46 am
I have not received any invoices at all yet, just a few rude sms's.
Maybe it is because enatis still has my old box number.
Fvkem they won't see a cent from me, ever.
Well, maybe when I am standing in front of a magistrate and he tells me to pay, then I guess I will have to pay them their R10 a week, seeing it is all I can afford. 
Might get a court date sometime in 2054 if I am lucky. :lol8:

So to all the sheep with tags, thank you, from the bottom of my heart for subsidizing my pleasant daily commute on our world class freeways.  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Offshore on February 15, 2014, 09:09:58 am
I have not received any invoices at all yet, just a few rude sms's.
Maybe it is because enatis still has my old box number.
Fvkem they won't see a cent from me, ever.
Well, maybe when I am standing in front of a magistrate and he tells me to pay, then I guess I will have to pay them their R10 a week, seeing it is all I can afford. 
Might get a court date sometime in 2054 if I am lucky. :lol8:

So to all the sheep with tags, thank you, from the bottom of my heart for subsidizing my pleasant daily commute on our world class freeways.  :lol8:
With e-toll cases added to the Court roll you will be lucky if you get a Hearing in 2064 ;D
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 15, 2014, 10:37:05 am
I have not received any invoices at all yet, just a few rude sms's.
Maybe it is because enatis still has my old box number.
Fvkem they won't see a cent from me, ever.
Well, maybe when I am standing in front of a magistrate and he tells me to pay, then I guess I will have to pay them their R10 a week, seeing it is all I can afford. 
Might get a court date sometime in 2054 if I am lucky. :lol8:

So to all the sheep with tags, thank you, from the bottom of my heart for subsidizing my pleasant daily commute on our world class freeways.  :lol8:


same here - I changed my postal address last year in June when I renewed my car licence - my PO Box expired end Jan14, but my key still worked yesterday and I got an account from Sanral, so those morons did not update my address - that will probably be my last time that I will be able to check the PO Box, so I won't be getting any more accounts, through no fault of mine
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: poplap on February 15, 2014, 02:33:54 pm
We received our 1st account. R 1689.54....WTF. This is for 1 vehicle only.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Manic on February 15, 2014, 08:26:45 pm
On my bakkie, I moved the front nr plate in behind the bullbar. You can see it, but need to check carefully what the nr is.
I then open up my tailgate, and drive with it down.

Not a single Photo so far for this vehicle.

My other vehicles racked up more than R9000 so far on E Tolls. I'm not paying  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 15, 2014, 08:35:59 pm
On my bakkie, I moved the front nr plate in behind the bullbar. You can see it, but need to check carefully what the nr is.
I then open up my tailgate, and drive with it down.

Not a single Photo so far for this vehicle.

My other vehicles racked up more than R9000 so far on E Tolls. I'm not paying  :thumleft:

lekker! FOK HULLE!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: wiledog_X on February 15, 2014, 08:39:10 pm
On my bakkie, I moved the front nr plate in behind the bullbar. You can see it, but need to check carefully what the nr is.
I then open up my tailgate, and drive with it down.

Not a single Photo so far for this vehicle.

My other vehicles racked up more than R9000 so far on E Tolls. I'm not paying  :thumleft:

lekker! FOK HULLE!

agreed... SANRAL can get money from me the day Hell freezes over.....
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Kneeslider on February 16, 2014, 12:28:11 am
Quote
agreed... SANRAL can get money from me the day Hell freezes over.....

 :o :o Then you may be in trouble, according to this chemistry student, anyway;
The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term.

Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?


Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today.

Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:
If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, 'It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,' and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct......leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting 'Oh my God.'

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Cracker on February 16, 2014, 09:22:52 pm
So, there we go ......... don't shag Teresa and all will be fine  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: volroom on February 21, 2014, 03:18:53 pm
Sorry, don't have time to read all the posts. Just need to know: is it within the legislation that we, as the public, have a right to ask for photos, sent by registered post to our residence, of every single time our vehicles went through the gantries. That's what I'm asking for. They keep sending me emails showing only 3 photos. Firstly, I want registered post, and secondly I want photos of every time my vehicle went through a gantry. Please comment. thanks
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 21, 2014, 04:55:53 pm
doesn't have to be registered - with all the duplicate number plates, I would insist on pics of every gantry

I'm just ignoring them
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: volroom on February 21, 2014, 05:33:36 pm
doesn't have to be registered - with all the duplicate number plates, I would insist on pics of every gantry

I'm just ignoring them

OK, so I can't ask that they send photos to my by registered post. OK, well, I'll ask for all the photos then by email
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: toucan on February 21, 2014, 05:56:51 pm
Sorry, don't have time to read all the posts. Just need to know: is it within the legislation that we, as the public, have a right to ask for photos, sent by registered post to our residence, of every single time our vehicles went through the gantries. That's what I'm asking for. They keep sending me emails showing only 3 photos. Firstly, I want registered post, and secondly I want photos of every time my vehicle went through a gantry. Please comment. thanks

i speak/type under correction but the government gazzette says that they only have to issue an invoice. that is all. they don't have to prove you received it. when the first court cases come up it will be interesting.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 21, 2014, 09:08:39 pm
i speak/type under correction but the government gazzette says that they only have to issue an invoice. that is all. they don't have to prove you received it. when the first court cases come up it will be interesting.

Jip, going to be interesting.

If you compare it to buying something from say Edgars. You buy on an account and they send you an invoice which you have to pay in a certain time frame. No rules about the invoice have to be registered mail or they have to prove you bought something. If you don't receive an invoice it is your problem. You pay what you owe them plus interest.

I see many similarities with Sanral, although you don't have an account with them. When you used the road a transaction is created and it is your responsibility to pay. But then again how do I know that I have passed under a gantry or not when I am just using a part of a highway on a very irregular basis or how does a regular user know or remember exactly which gantries he passed under and if they correspond to the invoice.

Also wonder if Sanral is going to take people to court or if they are going to try some other manipulative tactics?

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 21, 2014, 09:26:48 pm
my guess would be that they change their short discount terms as a 1st conciliatory step and then give some form of amnesty to offenders in the next 3 months - they can change their tariffs to 1c, I still won't pay
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Kneeslider on February 21, 2014, 09:38:59 pm
There are currently 27,606 ‘likes’ on the OUTA Facebook page.

Here are some interesting numbers:
If all 27,606 used the e-toll roads just once and refuse to pay, SANRAL will have to take all 27,606 to court.

Courts only work 5 days a week, so that's about 260 days per year. Divide 27,606 by 260, and you can see that the courts would need to process 106 cases every day.

If they work from 9am to 4pm with 30 minutes lunch, they will have to process 16 case every hour, or one every 4 minutes.

That’s just to handle the people who’ve taken the time to 'like' the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance Facebook page.

Let’s take a more realistic number of 1,000,000 people who refuse to pay. That translates into 590 court cases every hour (almost 10 per minute). This is simply IMPOSSIBLE to maintain.

Visit and like OUTA's Facebook page
www.facebook.com/outasa (http://www.facebook.com/outasa)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 21, 2014, 09:48:20 pm
Doubt if Sanral would take anyone to court.

But if they do, would it be a civil or criminal case?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 21, 2014, 09:58:37 pm
I think at some stage they will just have to - probably by around May - will be interesting! AFAIK it will be a criminal case - criminal tax payers being prosecuted for demanding value for their money.... interesting...... :sip: <thanks RobC>
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Gypsybaron on February 22, 2014, 09:48:56 pm
E-tolls will have to be checked manually by this inspector  >:D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/1724628_10152295425822275_381247292_n.jpg)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Eendstop on February 23, 2014, 07:55:29 am
Did you get the cop's permission to post his pic on a public forum :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: DeepBass9 on February 25, 2014, 03:00:41 pm

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-resolves-Cape-tractor-e-toll-bill-20140225 (http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-resolves-Cape-tractor-e-toll-bill-20140225)

An investigation by Sanral determined that the car passing through the gantry had the registration number CAR 10844 and not CAR 10944 (the tractor's).

So their fancy software does not recognise number plates correctly after all.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: badballie on February 25, 2014, 04:02:47 pm
I got another invoice for a trailer in my name - resident in Jhb.

The 3 pics are there  - 2 of the Landie towing the bike trailer and then the trailer.

No class of vehicle identified. Apparently the Landie owner also got an invoice for the same trip.

I do not have the willpower to argue with idiots, another invoice going up in smoke  ;)

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Chukudeer on February 25, 2014, 06:13:00 pm
Like this one? Sometimes they don't get the Landy's numberplate, only the trailers...... :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Herminator on February 25, 2014, 06:46:45 pm
Got another one today. says I owe R1600, no pictures this time though
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on February 25, 2014, 07:30:36 pm
one of my invoices i got today , shows 2 pics of a car that may be mine ( cant see the black , and of course cannot read the number plate ) and a third pic of a truck , i havent owned a truck since  fukking never !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bwahahahahah  twatwaffles   fukkem
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: badballie on February 26, 2014, 09:39:22 am
Got another one today. says I owe R1600, no pictures this time though

Thought the cap was R450.00 or R 350.00 ?

and yep Chukudeer - almost like that
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 26, 2014, 10:54:54 am
the cap is only for loyal citizens that support e-tolling and have an e-tag
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on February 26, 2014, 10:55:44 am
the cap is only for loyal citizens sell-out idiots that support e-tolling and have an e-tag

Fixed
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 26, 2014, 10:59:25 am
the cap is only for loyal citizens sell-out idiots that support e-tolling and have an e-tag

Fixed
:biggrin: that was sarcasm  :thumleft:

my cap is R0
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on February 26, 2014, 11:05:40 am
the cap is only for loyal citizens sell-out idiots that support e-tolling and have an e-tag

Fixed
:biggrin: that was sarcasm  :thumleft:

my cap is R0

 :thumleft: :biggrin: Yea I know.  My cap is also R0.

I've got some SCAMRAL paper to burn this weekend.  Did the same last weekend and it worked a charm.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: badballie on February 26, 2014, 11:44:56 am
 :imaposer:

Ah I see, that is why my cap is also zero  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on February 26, 2014, 11:48:03 am
My cap is R2:15 from every litre of petrol , my yearly liscense fee's'and all the vat from insurance,tyres,parts and mechanic fee's'
I pay for my roads
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Offshore on February 26, 2014, 12:02:04 pm
When I travel up Norh I see very few People that go through the Tollgate at the e-tag only Gate.
That gives me hope as I think SANRAL are inflating their sales figures of the e-tag.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 26, 2014, 12:04:07 pm
When I travel up Norh I see very few People that go through the Tollgate at the e-tag only Gate.
That gives me hope as I think SANRAL are inflating their sales figures of the e-tag.

Does Sanral e-tag work automatically on Bakwena?
I know Bakwena does not automatically work on Sanral.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Offshore on February 26, 2014, 12:07:04 pm
The first Tollgate going North has that Facility.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 26, 2014, 12:13:44 pm
The first Tollgate going North has that Facility.

Going north from where? Which toll gate are you talking about?
Most if not all of the Bakwena toll gates has an e-tag facility.
The Bakwena and Sanral e-tag looks similar, there were talk of using one on the other.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 26, 2014, 12:17:30 pm
The first Tollgate going North has that Facility.

Going north from where? Which toll gate are you talking about?
Most if not all of the Bakwena toll gates has an e-tag facility.
The Bakwena and Sanral e-tag looks similar, there were talk of using one on the other.

http://blog.bakwena.co.za/2014/02/good-news-on-tolling/ (http://blog.bakwena.co.za/2014/02/good-news-on-tolling/)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 26, 2014, 12:31:23 pm
http://blog.bakwena.co.za/2014/02/good-news-on-tolling/ (http://blog.bakwena.co.za/2014/02/good-news-on-tolling/)

Thanks. So it seems Sanral e-tag does not work automatically on Bakwena. You first have to register.
Suppose few that have a Sanral e-tag and use Bakwena frequently would not have registered.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on February 27, 2014, 06:50:09 am
One thing is true, Sanral is not getting as much money as they hoped for various reasons, but if they also hoped to decongest the highways, then the might have succeed to some extent.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on February 27, 2014, 06:14:14 pm
got two more accounts today - to my PO Box, which I changed to home address last year when I renewed my car licence - PO Box has not been renewed and Post Office seems to be too asleep to change the lock..... ::)

both the accounts only consisted of two pages each, no photos at all, and did not even state the individual transactions..... :bueller:
Even if I was the paying type, I would not have paid these two accounts

Sanral must be getting lazy or they have realised I'm not gonna pay in any case - stupid fuckers!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on February 28, 2014, 07:38:04 am
got two more accounts today - to my PO Box, which I changed to home address last year when I renewed my car licence - PO Box has not been renewed and Post Office seems to be too asleep to change the lock..... ::)

both the accounts only consisted of two pages each, no photos at all, and did not even state the individual transactions..... :bueller:
Even if I was the paying type, I would not have paid these two accounts

Sanral must be getting lazy or they have realised I'm not gonna pay in any case - stupid fuckers!

Maybe they want to pay you a visit :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: badballie on February 28, 2014, 07:45:19 am
got two more accounts today - to my PO Box, which I changed to home address last year when I renewed my car licence - PO Box has not been renewed and Post Office seems to be too asleep to change the lock..... ::)

both the accounts only consisted of two pages each, no photos at all, and did not even state the individual transactions..... :bueller:
Even if I was the paying type, I would not have paid these two accounts

Sanral must be getting lazy or they have realised I'm not gonna pay in any case - stupid fuckers!

Those are the statements. There seems to be no sequence regarding sending invoices then statements. Also got an invoice (no2), then one of above like yours, I figured out it was a statement of inv 1 &2, have never gotten inv 1 - but have gotten inv 2 about 3 times now
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: MegaPix on February 28, 2014, 07:45:24 am
Got an account for one of our company cars sitting in the workshop on a weekend in Polokwane.

They claim it did R250 worth of gantry crossings?

W T F
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on February 28, 2014, 08:02:53 am
Got an account for one of our company cars sitting in the workshop on a weekend in Polokwane.

They claim it did R250 worth of gantry crossings?

W T F

I'd have the workshop checked out.

How can they say the car is fubar and needs repair when its driving all over Gauteng?

I mean, scamral would never make a mistake like that, would they?

Mmmh. Mebbe check out the workshops anyway  ;)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: wiledog_X on March 04, 2014, 08:57:07 pm
the DA's Jack Bloom rips up his e-toll invoices in Parlaiment!! way to go Jack!!!  :thumleft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KlT9veI819g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KlT9veI819g)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on March 04, 2014, 09:03:03 pm
the DA's Jack Bloom rips up his e-toll invoices in Parlaiment!! way to go Jack!!!  :thumleft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KlT9veI819g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KlT9veI819g)

good stuff! :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Frog on March 19, 2014, 01:12:35 pm
Just got my first E-Toll invoice for my bike.
Photo is of another bike, not mine! :o
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: silvrav on March 19, 2014, 01:18:28 pm
Got a statement of all my invoices last night....sitting at about R3,500. for 3months....

Didn't have blitz and they made good fire starters.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: brianw on March 19, 2014, 01:33:11 pm
interesting article
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on March 19, 2014, 11:18:17 pm
Guys,  their whole billing system is in a shambles, not only are bills arriving late or not at all they have wrong vehicles allocated to accounts, not to mention wrong vehicles to plates. They cant even prove transaction by transaction.

Just ignore the corrupt un-organised locusts !
Apparently I owe them 7k from inception, I have maybe 4 forms showing one gantry each. The rest?  Up to scumral to prove anything and everything.

Ignore them. They will Fail.

Ps next BAT Run. Eastrand meeting point ?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on March 19, 2014, 11:38:19 pm
Ps next BAT Run. Eastrand meeting point ?

Why not print a couple of false numbers and stick it over your plate temporary.
With all the bike going under the gantries at one instance it might confuse the billing system a bit?
The cops do not look favourably onto this practice but as part of a mass protest they might turn a blind eye.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Gypsybaron on March 20, 2014, 12:18:00 am


Ps next BAT Run. Eastrand meeting point ?

This is the only info I have:
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=147183.msg2806688#msg2806688 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=147183.msg2806688#msg2806688)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on March 20, 2014, 07:23:14 am
Crusaders club house. , leaving at 9
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on March 26, 2014, 07:14:43 pm
Ps next BAT Run. Eastrand meeting point ?

Why not print a couple of false numbers and stick it over your plate temporary.
With all the bike going under the gantries at one instance it might confuse the billing system a bit?
The cops do not look favourably onto this practice but as part of a mass protest they might turn a blind eye.

why bother?
I'm riding MY freeways with MY plates and they can try and get a cent from me - FUKKEM!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on March 26, 2014, 07:26:54 pm
Ps next BAT Run. Eastrand meeting point ?

Why not print a couple of false numbers and stick it over your plate temporary.
With all the bike going under the gantries at one instance it might confuse the billing system a bit?
The cops do not look favourably onto this practice but as part of a mass protest they might turn a blind eye.

why bother?
I'm riding MY freeways with MY plates and they can try and get a cent from me - FUKKEM!
:thumleft:   :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on March 26, 2014, 07:47:37 pm
Ps next BAT Run. Eastrand meeting point ?

Why not print a couple of false numbers and stick it over your plate temporary.
With all the bike going under the gantries at one instance it might confuse the billing system a bit?
The cops do not look favourably onto this practice but as part of a mass protest they might turn a blind eye.

why bother?
I'm riding MY freeways with MY plates and they can try and get a cent from me - FUKKEM!
:thumleft:   :thumleft:

I got back from Kimberley on the bike today and in Gauteng, saluted each and every fucking gantry that I could spot, with a middle finger!
I was down in the the Cape and took the N12... - what a beautiful road?..... not a single toll fee required! and it costs us no more than our present taxes and fuel levies! fukkem! Gauteng is the tax gathering hub of SA and they (the fucking ANC) want more! NOT PAYING, thank you very much!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: tgg on March 26, 2014, 08:30:34 pm
Had quite an eye opener when Bundu explained etolling to me

Who the ?? is going to make me pay what the fuck where if they did not get ME , not a photo, or anything ME riding there in a vehicle. not in this country.

nice comfy way of getting persons with a traceable address to pay extra taxes.

Like them fines my No Plate gets
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Offshore on March 26, 2014, 08:38:08 pm
Got a statement of all my invoices last night....sitting at about R3,500. for 3months....

Didn't have blitz and they made good fire starters.
:thumleft: Love it. Am I right in saying that they are not allowed to charge you Interest on overdue Accounts?
If so invest the Money and if the Shit hits the Fan you still score but I as I posted before, they will have an Amnesty or two , so Fuck them anyway.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on March 26, 2014, 08:44:11 pm
Had quite an eye opener when Bundu explained etolling to me

Who the ?? is going to make me pay what the fuck where if they did not get ME , not a photo, or anything ME riding there in a vehicle. not in this country.

nice comfy way of getting persons with a traceable address to pay extra taxes.

Like them fines my No Plate gets
exactly! fuckers will have to rethink!

Had a good look at the roads all over SA the past days and am not prepared to pay an extra cent for Gauteng roads - FUCK these savages - we're not here to be milked dry!
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Kneeslider on March 28, 2014, 07:47:46 pm
Quote
FUCK these savages - we're not here to be milked dry!

Apparently we are, Since January the Rand has strengthened from R11.30 to R10.59, oil price has dropped from $110 to $107 and is under further pressure.
Yet come next week the fuel price will increase again due to increased taxes on fuel.  >:(

The big stick for the naughty children's non compliance and resistance against this corrupt e-toll BS??
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2014, 08:02:02 pm
Quote
FUCK these savages - we're not here to be milked dry!

Apparently we are, Since January the Rand has strengthened from R11.30 to R10.59, oil price has dropped from $110 to $107 and is under further pressure.
Yet come next week the fuel price will increase again due to increased taxes on fuel.  >:(

The big stick for the naughty children's non compliance and resistance against this corrupt e-toll BS??


taxes on fuel as a percentage, have actually declined - I'm ducking any taxes that I possibly can, and in my view e-tolls are one of them
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Kneeslider on March 28, 2014, 09:22:47 pm
You and me both.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: KiLRoy on March 31, 2014, 07:15:33 pm
Quote
FUCK these savages - we're not here to be milked dry!

Apparently we are, Since January the Rand has strengthened from R11.30 to R10.59, oil price has dropped from $110 to $107 and is under further pressure.
Yet come next week the fuel price will increase again due to increased taxes on fuel.  >:(

The big stick for the naughty children's non compliance and resistance against this corrupt e-toll BS??


 
taxes on fuel as a percentage, have actually declined - I'm ducking any taxes that I possibly can, and in my view e-tolls are one of them

And obviously so, since taxes are fixed fees and the rest subjected to crude oil price and exchange rate.... If rand kak and oil price increases, taxes will decrease as percentage. But that says farkall. The right question is - compare fuel tax with other countries, and what gets done with the money.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on March 31, 2014, 07:29:37 pm
Quote
FUCK these savages - we're not here to be milked dry!

Apparently we are, Since January the Rand has strengthened from R11.30 to R10.59, oil price has dropped from $110 to $107 and is under further pressure.
Yet come next week the fuel price will increase again due to increased taxes on fuel.  >:(

The big stick for the naughty children's non compliance and resistance against this corrupt e-toll BS??


 
taxes on fuel as a percentage, have actually declined - I'm ducking any taxes that I possibly can, and in my view e-tolls are one of them

And obviously so, since taxes are fixed fees and the rest subjected to crude oil price and exchange rate.... If rand kak and oil price increases, taxes will decrease as percentage. But that says farkall. The right question is - compare fuel tax with other countries, and what gets done with the money.

no argument about that - we don't have the highest taxes, but we have the lowest return for our taxes
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: KiLRoy on March 31, 2014, 09:53:41 pm
And that is claimed benefits. Real benefits are much lower on account of corruption, thievery and unproductiveness 
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on April 03, 2014, 06:52:59 am
ETV yesternight that only 10% consumers have paid e-toll.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on April 03, 2014, 07:23:15 am
ETV yesternight that only 10% consumers have paid e-toll.

Not quite correct that statement.  The correct statement is that just less than 10% of the outstanding debt handed over to the VPC (violations processing centre) has been paid.  So of the total outstanding dept handed over to the VPC (R540 mill odd) only roughly R50 mill has been paid by motorists.  AND it cost them R54mill to collect that R50 mill.  Stupid idiots.

This obviously doesn't take into account the sheeple that got etags and are enjoying the ass-raping, or the other sheeple queuing up at SCAMRAL offices to pay manually.   Stupid idiots.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on May 06, 2014, 10:08:49 am
I have not received an e-toll account for over a month now. But I am still using the roads...  :ricky:

Do you think they have given up on me?  :peepwall:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mooi Rooi on May 06, 2014, 11:22:02 am
Violations Processing Centre (VPC)

Received a mail from them yesterday stating that I owe R68.58 and that this must be paid (NOW)
On the mail there is no invoice / no details of when the etroll was used / No information at all

Only a link to the Call Centre & e-mail address

Call Centre Number:    0800 SANRAL (726 725) 6am-10pm
Website:   www.sanral.co.za (http://www.sanral.co.za)

What to do ??????? 

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:






Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: PierreO on May 06, 2014, 11:26:50 am
Violations Processing Centre (VPC)

Received a mail from them yesterday stating that I owe R68.58 and that this must be paid (NOW)
On the mail there is no invoice / no details of when the etroll was used / No information at all

Only a link to the Call Centre & e-mail address

Call Centre Number:    0800 SANRAL (726 725) 6am-10pm
Website:   www.sanral.co.za (http://www.sanral.co.za)

What to do ??????? 

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:








Don't delay , CALL them immediately . Spend as much time as possible to explain your problem and give them the 101 reasons why you cannot pay for the bill .   
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on May 06, 2014, 01:18:14 pm
I must go check my P.O. Box, hopefully it will be stuffed full, need the paper for home made fire lighters.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mooi Rooi on May 06, 2014, 02:23:16 pm
I must go check my P.O. Box, hopefully it will be stuffed full, need the paper for home made fire lighters.

To MOX

As stated in the mail above I owe R68.58
If you don't have any invoices in your P.O.Box I am willing to sell you the originals that I have collected
A price of R0.25c per sheet  // sounds fair I think

I need to raise funds (hahahah)

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on May 06, 2014, 06:34:45 pm
I must go check my P.O. Box, hopefully it will be stuffed full, need the paper for home made fire lighters.

To MOX

As stated in the mail above I owe R68.58
If you don't have any invoices in your P.O.Box I am willing to sell you the originals that I have collected
A price of R0.25c per sheet  // sounds fair I think

I need to raise funds (hahahah)

 :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:
No thanks, I want my free fire lighters from SANRAL !
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on May 07, 2014, 06:31:32 am
I went and paid my e-toll?  21 Rand. :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Gypsybaron on May 07, 2014, 07:01:18 am
I went and paid my e-toll?  21 Rand. :lol8:

That's 8 rolls of single ply toilet paper - which is far better value for money
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on May 07, 2014, 07:05:31 am
I went and paid my e-toll?  21 Rand. :lol8:

Why on earth do you want to help fund corruption?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: punisher on May 08, 2014, 03:19:00 pm
I went and paid my e-toll?  21 Rand. :lol8:


Do u also buy stolen goods ?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Koet on May 08, 2014, 03:20:40 pm
Got another envelope in my mail box today.  So I tore it up and put it in the orange Ronny bag with all the other wasted paper.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: KSMITH on May 09, 2014, 08:34:09 pm
if it was a case that...
 
1- the monies would go and be used as intended, and no fat cat, either local or overseas is well..... getting fat on the monies.,
2- the fees where reasonable - ie a few cents a time
3-there was a proper safe alternative route and this route was clearly marked.


we MIGHT then pay for it.... it might be easier to fathom?

begs the question - can you imagine if an "opposition" party had done the same and put up these blue electric trees- there would be mayhem and pestilence rife throughout the land.
i am quietly doing my civic duty by responsibly ensuring that the supermarkets price for firelighter is kept in check , but not purchasing said fire lighters and using white envelopes that arrive 2-3 times a week instead.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on May 09, 2014, 08:44:39 pm
if it was a case that...
 
1- the monies would go and be used as intended, and no fat cat, either local or overseas is well..... getting fat on the monies.,
2- the fees where reasonable - ie a few cents a time
3-there was a proper safe alternative route and this route was clearly marked.


we MIGHT then pay for it.... it might be easier to fathom?

begs the question - can you imagine if an "opposition" party had done the same and put up these blue electric trees- there would be mayhem and pestilence rife throughout the land.
i am quietly doing my civic duty by responsibly ensuring that the supermarkets price for firelighter is kept in check , but not purchasing said fire lighters and using white envelopes that arrive 2-3 times a week instead.

that would be impossible with e-tolling - the overheads are just too great - a fuel levy has got basically no overheads
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: jogi_c on May 21, 2014, 03:00:56 pm
Is it only me or is SANRAL slowing down with the paper wastage. Have not received an invoice in the last 6 weeks?
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: mox on May 21, 2014, 03:09:12 pm
Is it only me or is SANRAL slowing down with the paper wastage. Have not received an invoice in the last 6 weeks?

Yip, I am no longer getting my free fire lighters  :dousing: U
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on May 21, 2014, 03:24:04 pm
same here, but have to admit I don't have access to my post box any more - actually just renewed my car and bike licences today and provided them with my new postal address - hope to get some bills again soon ::)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mr Zog on May 21, 2014, 09:31:25 pm
I just got an invoice from etoll today.

But its no longer printed in full colour, even the logo is B&W.

Seems they are feeling the pinch?  :peepwall: :ricky:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Geotraveller on May 21, 2014, 09:38:54 pm
Just wondering aloud here but how much of that almost 10% was collected from governmenta vehicles that are obliged to have tags? I know of at least one forum member that has them on his bike and bakkie. He uses them to get to work. Does not pay a sent. The institution he works for pays.
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on May 22, 2014, 10:42:48 am
I would guess mostly govt., provincial and big business
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: RobC on May 22, 2014, 11:00:22 am
I would guess mostly govt., provincial and big business
and parastatals... I have an E-Tag for the campus car... it never goes further than the other side of town to the South Campus!  ::)
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Bundu on September 22, 2014, 10:22:57 pm
suck it up Sanral, I'm not paying a single cent

Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Mzee on September 23, 2014, 04:51:45 am
Bundu did they charge you that much?  Pay up Bundu  :lol8:
Title: Re: E-Toll Invoice
Post by: Rooikat on September 23, 2014, 07:06:38 am
I see they've run out of colour printed invoices! Feeling the pinch?  :biggrin: