Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: Bundu on January 04, 2014, 07:07:37 pm

Title: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 04, 2014, 07:07:37 pm
I'm going with Option 4 - I believe it's the only way to stop this kark
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: sting on January 04, 2014, 07:46:33 pm
Considered paying until they put petrol price up on 1 Jan. Faark them. That in my opinion is spite for not paying tolls. Come fetch your money.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 06, 2014, 03:25:53 pm
This speech by Martin Luther King Jr on unjust laws, is what we should keep in mind

http://www.youtube.com/v/Wha1LajpOmY
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Sylvester on January 06, 2014, 04:18:33 pm
With the number of toll gates I pass per day, I have already accumulated over R1400 in December by not being registered, and I only worked 13 days in Dec.  My wife's car accumulated over R800. 

I just can not afford to play this delay-tactic and then paying one huge amount in any case a few months down the line.  So, I decided to get e-tagged and rather donate a couple of hundred per month to OUTA for their future court cases.

If I would have used the highways just occasionally, it would have been a different story and I would definitely not register.





   
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 06, 2014, 04:28:05 pm
With the number of toll gates I pass per day, I have already accumulated over R1400 in December by not being registered, and I only worked 13 days in Dec.  My wife's car accumulated over R800. 

I just can not afford to play this delay-tactic and then paying one huge amount in any case a few months down the line.  So, I decided to get e-tagged and rather donate a couple of hundred per month to OUTA for their future court cases.

If I would have used the highways just occasionally, it would have been a different story and I would definitely not register.





   

I understand  :thumleft: but please donate to OUTA, as we might still win this fight
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: TVB on January 06, 2014, 04:30:33 pm
With the number of toll gates I pass per day, I have already accumulated over R1400 in December by not being registered, and I only worked 13 days in Dec.  My wife's car accumulated over R800. 

I just can not afford to play this delay-tactic and then paying one huge amount in any case a few months down the line.  So, I decided to get e-tagged and rather donate a couple of hundred per month to OUTA for their future court cases.

If I would have used the highways just occasionally, it would have been a different story and I would definitely not register.





   

I am with you on this one. I can't sit back and wait for an account that accumulated over months, just can't affort it. I rather got tagged and get the discounted tarriff. I don't like the idea at all for it is costing me money but the main benefit is that the tag works on Bakwena and I use Bakwena on a regular basis. No more sitting in the quee. The poll should be amended with an option 'do you alredy have a tag'
I see there is rightfully a lot of ressistance but amazingly chatted on the road to quite a few WD's with tags. All feel the same: 'we cabnot affort supprises and would rather pay up'.

As ek geld se baas was sou ek ook gekyk het hoe lank ek SANRAL kon rondfoeter, en ook as ek nie onder kontrak vir hulle gewerk het nie
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 06, 2014, 04:35:32 pm
With the number of toll gates I pass per day, I have already accumulated over R1400 in December by not being registered, and I only worked 13 days in Dec.  My wife's car accumulated over R800. 

I just can not afford to play this delay-tactic and then paying one huge amount in any case a few months down the line.  So, I decided to get e-tagged and rather donate a couple of hundred per month to OUTA for their future court cases.

If I would have used the highways just occasionally, it would have been a different story and I would definitely not register.





   

I am with you on this one. I can't sit back and wait for an account that accumulated over months, just can't affort it. I rather got tagged and get the discounted tarriff. I don't like the idea at all for it is costing me money but the main benefit is that the tag works on Bakwena and I use Bakwena on a regular basis. No more sitting in the quee. The poll should be amended with an option 'do you alredy have a tag'
I see there is rightfully a lot of ressistance but amazingly chatted on the road to quite a few WD's with tags. All feel the same: 'we cabnot affort supprises and would rather pay up'.

As ek geld se baas was sou ek ook gekyk het hoe lank ek SANRAL kon rondfoeter, en ook as ek nie onder kontrak vir hulle gewerk het nie

that's similar to Option 1
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 06, 2014, 05:16:00 pm
by getting taggeed you are helping the fraudsters steal yours , and eventually  eveeryone elses money , a bit like buying stolen goods , or the more serious analigy , bitching about kiddie porn , but renting the movies


 if ...... and this is a big "if" , and scumral do win this , and ultimately win the right to the money they say i "owe" THEM , THEY WILL BE GETTING IT IN 5 RAND A MONTH INSTALMENTS 
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Chukudeer on January 06, 2014, 07:36:00 pm
I'm sorry but getting an e-tag and trying to justify it here is like arriving at school on casual Friday in your school uniform because you were too dof to remember casual Friday and then trying to convince everybody that you are actually wearing your uniform out of respect for the school rules..... :lol8:

At the moment I qualify for the 100% discount.

Until they can prove that:
E-tolls and the collection of e-tolls fully comply with the constitution
They can prove that I have received a valid itemized invoice as per the the e-tolls act
They prove in a court of law that it was me/my vehicle

To those that have e-tags. You are responsible for this corrupt and idiotic system actually going live. May you pay and pay and pay....... :pot:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 06, 2014, 08:16:38 pm
I'm sorry but getting an e-tag and trying to justify it here is like arriving at school on casual Friday in your school uniform because you were too dof to remember casual Friday and then trying to convince everybody that you are actually wearing your uniform out of respect for the school rules..... :lol8:

At the moment I qualify for the 100% discount.

Until they can prove that:
E-tolls and the collection of e-tolls fully comply with the constitution
They can prove that I have received a valid itemized invoice as per the the e-tolls act
They prove in a court of law that it was me/my vehicle

To those that have e-tags. You are responsible for this corrupt and idiotic system actually going live. May you pay and pay and pay....... :pot:

you is what we need!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: TVB on January 06, 2014, 08:41:14 pm
 :thumleft: good for you, I am not going to get involved and personnal. I and many others decided to play safe. Over 1,6 million others to be more spesific. Don't ask me where I got the numbers, not thumb sucking though...it's for real. Cheers :)
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 06, 2014, 08:45:41 pm
:thumleft: good for you, I am not going to get involved and personnal. I and many others decided to play safe. Over 1,6 million others to be more spesific. Don't ask me where I got the numbers, not thumb sucking though...it's for real. Cheers :)

if that number is true (which I doubt), this country is fucked!

Do they have to make a law that gives them the right to pierce your eyes out or rape you up the rear, before people stand up?
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Draadwerk on January 06, 2014, 09:18:12 pm
There is absolutely no need to harbour or express ill feelings and comments against those on this forum that have decided to rather buy tags because their better judgment was so inclined.

If a man thinks it wise to do so, respect him ! Most certainly another two or three people that buy these tags will not in any way detract from the masses that are taking action against doing so.

We are all grown men, and part and parcel of winning this war is to act with maturity and to think logically. If you lose the ability to think because of your emotional feelings you have lost the war !!!
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: TVB on January 06, 2014, 09:23:41 pm
:thumleft: good for you, I am not going to get involved and personnal. I and many others decided to play safe. Over 1,6 million others to be more spesific. Don't ask me where I got the numbers, not thumb sucking though...it's for real. Cheers :)

if that number is true (which I doubt), this country is fucked!

Do they have to make a law that gives them the right to pierce your eyes out or rape you up the rear, before people stand up?

That is the number of tags being used as per vehicle (not registrations)
Some or companies with fleet of vehicles, some are individuals with let's say 2 regitered vehicles.
Just to be clear on the so called 'signed contract' and those who has signed are now under contract: that is not a contract but only a registration per vehicle that can be sold and de registered at any given time. You simply need to remove the tag, go to a service station with tag and the tags I'd card (pre paid account card) and de register it in person.
Anyway, I have voted and voiced my side of the story. Enough about this for now.
Good luck
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: dadrob on January 06, 2014, 11:31:32 pm
Tvg do you press working for sanral have to have an etag?

Much as some may call you names for having a tag it is my honest belief that they may wish to see sanral fail. . But they would not want to see you unemployed. ... dogs are not like that. ....


Personally I hope you find something else soon. I cannot see sanral forcing people to pay in the short to medium term.. and government will not ball them out indefinitely.  Even if they refuse to review car licences. . Can the government afford an eighty percent loss of licence fee revenue? 


Hindsight is a wonderful thing. .a year from now I wonder where the chips will lay. ...
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: XT JOE on January 07, 2014, 06:57:48 am
Tvg do you press working for sanral have to have an etag?

Much as some may call you names for having a tag it is my honest belief that they may wish to see sanral fail. . But they would not want to see you unemployed. ... dogs are not like that. ....


Personally I hope you find something else soon. I cannot see sanral forcing people to pay in the short to medium term.. and government will not ball them out indefinitely.  Even if they refuse to review car licences. . Can the government afford an eighty percent loss of licence fee revenue? 


Hindsight is a wonderful thing. .a year from now I wonder where the chips will lay. ...



 :thumleft:


Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 07, 2014, 07:13:18 am
I reckon that by end of April/May E-toll will be just like the National Health Insurance....... dead & gone...... Hopefully the registered people can try to claim their expenses back... but I wonder? :peepwall:

Just before the elections, the powers- what- be most probably will scrap this system and say they "listened to the people" in order to swing votes....  :deal: >:D
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: BiganDaft on January 07, 2014, 07:21:28 am

Just before the elections, the powers- what- be most probably will scrap this system and say they "listened to the people" in order to swing votes....  :deal: >:D

This is exactly my feeling
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: TVB on January 07, 2014, 07:50:19 am
Tvg do you press working for sanral have to have an etag?

Much as some may call you names for having a tag it is my honest belief that they may wish to see sanral fail. . But they would not want to see you unemployed. ... dogs are not like that. ....


Personally I hope you find something else soon. I cannot see sanral forcing people to pay in the short to medium term.. and government will not ball them out indefinitely.  Even if they refuse to review car licences. . Can the government afford an eighty percent loss of licence fee revenue? 


Hindsight is a wonderful thing. .a year from now I wonder where the chips will lay. ...

Yes mate at least you know and recall that I was without a job for close to a year. As it is nowdays with medics the market is flooded. Back in 2004 uip to 2009 companies got my e mail from who knows where and offered me jobs as I am a well experienced remote site medic. I have been a medic since 1999 after national service and in EMS SA (fire, medical,rescue and hazmat) for close to 15 years before I continued my career abroad. However, the Gov set ou bursaries to help grade 12's with career oppertuneties and the marked is now flooded with thousands of young well qualified medics and still huge groups of student are being trained. Course name; ECT - 2 years

So I have advertised all over, swallowed my pride and even asked on WD's for help. So a WD helped met to get into ER24 and unto the Sanral project as a motorbike medic. Now I am here and of course before the 3rd of Dec one of the directors urged employees to get tagged and even took us into the service station. So what do you do as an employee, do you kick against it and tell your boss you will never? Easy to sit on the side and make comments, being in the deep water is another story. So yes, that is my side of the story and like mentioned above, I can't affort to 'maybe' get nasty suprizes later on and forsed to pay and play the catch up game. This is what most other people do as well. All other WD's even that got tagged said the same, they are alreaddy on a budged and don't want to be forced to pay later and play the catch up game. We all are obviously against it because we as workers claas feel it. Yes like I said before, there is at least some sort of a service that you pay for (but is should be there in any way) and the only real benefit I have or like is that the tag works on bakwena and now safes the frustration (especially fridays) of a quee.

I am still looking for contract work or other work that pays better, but for now I am stuck in the 'sanral orange uniform' and need to make the best of it. I would love to see this system fail, but I can't participate in it.

Remember the threat about; would you spend R100 000 on your dog for knee replacement?
My answer was no because I cannot affort it; but if I was still earning big money abroad I woul have spent that money on my dog yes! This is the same scenario, the poor people rather get tagged, pay discounted tarrifs and play safe because all are scared that if sanral wins this they will have to catch up......if this doesn't make sense to any one I must rather accept that I'm an idiot then ???
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 07, 2014, 09:49:18 am

Yes mate at least you know and recall that I was without a job for close to a year. As it is nowdays with medics the market is flooded. Back in 2004 uip to 2009 companies got my e mail from who knows where and offered me jobs as I am a well experienced remote site medic. I have been a medic since 1999 after national service and in EMS SA (fire, medical,rescue and hazmat) for close to 15 years before I continued my career abroad. However, the Gov set ou bursaries to help grade 12's with career oppertuneties and the marked is now flooded with thousands of young well qualified medics and still huge groups of student are being trained. Course name; ECT - 2 years

So I have advertised all over, swallowed my pride and even asked on WD's for help. So a WD helped met to get into ER24 and unto the Sanral project as a motorbike medic. Now I am here and of course before the 3rd of Dec one of the directors urged employees to get tagged and even took us into the service station. So what do you do as an employee, do you kick against it and tell your boss you will never? Easy to sit on the side and make comments, being in the deep water is another story. So yes, that is my side of the story and like mentioned above, I can't affort to 'maybe' get nasty suprizes later on and forsed to pay and play the catch up game. This is what most other people do as well. All other WD's even that got tagged said the same, they are alreaddy on a budged and don't want to be forced to pay later and play the catch up game. We all are obviously against it because we as workers claas feel it. Yes like I said before, there is at least some sort of a service that you pay for (but is should be there in any way) and the only real benefit I have or like is that the tag works on bakwena and now safes the frustration (especially fridays) of a quee.

I am still looking for contract work or other work that pays better, but for now I am stuck in the 'sanral orange uniform' and need to make the best of it. I would love to see this system fail, but I can't participate in it.

Remember the threat about; would you spend R100 000 on your dog for knee replacement?
My answer was no because I cannot affort it; but if I was still earning big money abroad I woul have spent that money on my dog yes! This is the same scenario, the poor people rather get tagged, pay discounted tarrifs and play safe because all are scared that if sanral wins this they will have to catch up......if this doesn't make sense to any one I must rather accept that I'm an idiot then ???

TVB, I think most of us here understand your situation and have empathy with you :thumleft: - what we don't like, is hearing e-toll positive comments - you could help us, by trying to find out how big a problem duplicate plates are or other problems that Sanral is having, such as tracing owners or difficult number plates to identify
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 07, 2014, 10:01:39 am

Yes mate at least you know and recall that I was without a job for close to a year. As it is nowdays with medics the market is flooded. Back in 2004 uip to 2009 companies got my e mail from who knows where and offered me jobs as I am a well experienced remote site medic. I have been a medic since 1999 after national service and in EMS SA (fire, medical,rescue and hazmat) for close to 15 years before I continued my career abroad. However, the Gov set ou bursaries to help grade 12's with career oppertuneties and the marked is now flooded with thousands of young well qualified medics and still huge groups of student are being trained. Course name; ECT - 2 years

So I have advertised all over, swallowed my pride and even asked on WD's for help. So a WD helped met to get into ER24 and unto the Sanral project as a motorbike medic. Now I am here and of course before the 3rd of Dec one of the directors urged employees to get tagged and even took us into the service station. So what do you do as an employee, do you kick against it and tell your boss you will never? Easy to sit on the side and make comments, being in the deep water is another story. So yes, that is my side of the story and like mentioned above, I can't affort to 'maybe' get nasty suprizes later on and forsed to pay and play the catch up game. This is what most other people do as well. All other WD's even that got tagged said the same, they are alreaddy on a budged and don't want to be forced to pay later and play the catch up game. We all are obviously against it because we as workers claas feel it. Yes like I said before, there is at least some sort of a service that you pay for (but is should be there in any way) and the only real benefit I have or like is that the tag works on bakwena and now safes the frustration (especially fridays) of a quee.

I am still looking for contract work or other work that pays better, but for now I am stuck in the 'sanral orange uniform' and need to make the best of it. I would love to see this system fail, but I can't participate in it.

Remember the threat about; would you spend R100 000 on your dog for knee replacement?
My answer was no because I cannot affort it; but if I was still earning big money abroad I woul have spent that money on my dog yes! This is the same scenario, the poor people rather get tagged, pay discounted tarrifs and play safe because all are scared that if sanral wins this they will have to catch up......if this doesn't make sense to any one I must rather accept that I'm an idiot then ???

TVB, I think most of us here understand your situation and have empathy with you :thumleft: - what we don't like, is hearing e-toll positive comments - you could help us, by trying to find out how big a problem duplicate plates are or other problems that Sanral is having, such as tracing owners or difficult number plates to identify
+1..... well said Bundu.... It's no use belittling someone because of who he works for.   Maybe TVB can inform us as to how well... (or not) this whole debacle is working, regarding invoicing, etc.?
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Chukudeer on January 07, 2014, 10:11:32 am
Bundu you beat me to it. I agree 100%.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 07, 2014, 10:49:33 am
Eish KR :o...... been at the bottle again? :laughing4: :pot:...... I'm not registered, and never will. I agree that this system will fail shortly, and they will scrap it just before election time so try swing votes!
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: TVB on January 07, 2014, 11:21:21 am
Ok I had a word with one of the violation centre managers. According to him the duplicationb or cloned as he put it plates are a bit frustrating because of the following:
Person A buys a blue for fiesta and get it tagged
Person B also buy a bluye fiesta, doesn't tag it and clone persons A plates and license disc
Now person A start using the road and everytime he goes through a gantry the e tag beeps and deduct the correct amount of money. This goes with the confirmation in the system of the electronically read numberplates and the virtual imaga of the vehicle (the take a photo front and back and a vertial image confirms lengh and height of vehicle and confirms it must be a sedan as registered per tag)
Now person B goes through with his blue fiesta and the cameras gets the normal photo, the virtual image and the system read the numberplates in but: no tag confirmation or payment
Guess what happens now - an automatic payment goes off on person A's account at the discounted price but because this car (registration) was registered with a tag the system flags it as a fault.
Now they follow up by e mail or sms (like you chose when registered) and they inform you that tag was not working at 'x time' and 'x gantry'.
Person A will now be reunbursed if he can confirm that it was not him but the cloned B vehicle. They can then do an electronic 'trick' to ensure that mr A will only pay by tag and any other transaction with cloned plates will not deduct but register under another 'accoiunt'

Kilroy if this is your reaction do you think other registered WD's will come forward. Not likely.
Must say, if there is always 'shit in the drinking water-no matter your position or status' and you remind me of just that

This is an open forum, I have been here for many years and made friend for life. You mr Hein aint one of those and will never be
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Ganjora on January 07, 2014, 11:24:25 am
This is an open forum, I have been here for many years and made friend for life. You mr Hein aint one of those and will never be

good for you.
i know him well,  and he's awful.
i only visit him because he's always got beer,  he makes a killer potjie,  and his wife has nice tits.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 07, 2014, 11:28:46 am
100% TVB :thumleft:

My opinion is based on principle. Yours are based on what I say, and you dont like.

I stand by my opinion that conforming to this scam is supporting corruption and government extortion. I dont care if you like what i say. As i said, my opinion is based on principle.

I challenged you to name these MANY WDs with etags. But i have a feeling you are bullshitting to advance the cause of your employer?
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 07, 2014, 11:29:48 am
Vehicle A is at fault , for registering
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Pistol on January 07, 2014, 11:52:12 am
My Old man just got his first invoice - 3 pages in total printed on good quality paper with the letterhead in colour delivered to his PO Box, informing him of his R75 owing to them, but can be reduced to R30 if he registers and pays on-line before the deadline of 14 Jan!!! Very expensive exercise that!!! And no, he will not be paying them - no mention of which gantrie/s they were, just the date as far as I can see and the car registration - no make and model/colour.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Koet on January 07, 2014, 12:33:02 pm
I'm sorry but getting an e-tag and trying to justify it here is like arriving at school on casual Friday in your school uniform because you were too dof to remember casual Friday and then trying to convince everybody that you are actually wearing your uniform out of respect for the school rules..... :lol8:

At the moment I qualify for the 100% discount.

Until they can prove that:
E-tolls and the collection of e-tolls fully comply with the constitution
They can prove that I have received a valid itemized invoice as per the the e-tolls act
They prove in a court of law that it was me/my vehicle

To those that have e-tags. You are responsible for this corrupt and idiotic system actually going live. May you pay and pay and pay....... :pot:

 :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 07, 2014, 12:36:06 pm
I'm sorry but getting an e-tag and trying to justify it here is like arriving at school on casual Friday in your school uniform because you were too dof to remember casual Friday and then trying to convince everybody that you are actually wearing your uniform out of respect for the school rules..... :lol8:

At the moment I qualify for the 100% discount.

Until they can prove that:
E-tolls and the collection of e-tolls fully comply with the constitution
They can prove that I have received a valid itemized invoice as per the the e-tolls act
They prove in a court of law that it was me/my vehicle

To those that have e-tags. You are responsible for this corrupt and idiotic system actually going live. May you pay and pay and pay....... :pot:

 :notworthy: :notworthy:

+1

And, since its a government contract, they must be completely transparent will all aspects of enrichment and holdings.  I want to see who exactly benefits by how much.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Sylvester on January 07, 2014, 01:34:35 pm
I disagree. Its my right and duty to speak up against people supporting corruption and unjust laws. So fark em. If you buy etags you are a spineless coward, who like bitching about the kak government, crime and corruption but support it with excuses like 'its the law', or 'i can afford a huge bill down the line', etc....

Well guess what jellyfish - none of us can afford it, but still we resist complying to this scam. So what makes you so special except the fact that you can live without a spine?

Grow some balls and stand up against social i justice and things we dislike in this country.

TVB... You work for these farkers. So its in your interest to support them. So your opinion is tainted and laced with secondary intensions. You said MANY WDs you met have etags. Please name those many, or are you trying to sell is a fart in order to get people to support your employer?

Dont try to put lipstick on a pig. Softcock is not going to work. Grow some balls. Start saving now for in case you have to pay a huge bill down the line. Chances are, you dont have to pay anything.

My right and duty is to manage my finances and avoid unnecessary risks. 

I just wonder how many of those with the big balls donated to OUTA for the previous court cases, participated in protest rides or doing anything else than just making noise. 


It is interesting that the South African Vehicle Renting and Leasing Association is part of OUTA's founding members.  Yet all Car Rental companies have installed e-tags in their cars.  Do you think they would have done that if they positively believed that e-toll will disappear in the short term.

I absolutely detest the e-toll system, but anyone thinking that it is going to disappear soon or before the next elections are delusional. [I sincerely hope to be proven wrong in this regard]

The ANC is not getting its majority votes from the middle class who rants about e-tolls on forums and facebook.  They get their votes from the masses in townships and rural areas who uses taxis and trains and who is seemingly unaffected.  To save face, they will actually try to keep e-tolls alive as long as possible and not easily admit to the stuff-up that it is, especially before an election.

Everyone ignoring his e-toll accounts must carefully think about where his personal "cut-off" point will be eventually. Will it be when you are summonsed to court, and you have to take days off from work?  Will it be when they blacklist you or give you a criminal record; and what will be the price you will eventually have to pay.  I know the courts will not be able to handle over a million e-toll offenders, but they will not summons a million at once.  They will start with summonsing only a few and make examples of them and the rest will cave in.

I believe the e-tolls will eventually die, but not without a series of legal battles and appeals in courts, constitutional courts, etc.  This could still take years, and until then, I do not want to pay SANRAL a cent more than necessary. 



 
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Chukudeer on January 07, 2014, 01:59:53 pm
You Gents with the tags go do something useful and go pay your e-toll accounts. I am saving by not registering, not paying and doing the right thing.....nothing. While you are paying your tolls the system will carry on and on and on and on.....

I actually got a SMS stating that I owe them R1852. Phoned up to ask for what vehicle this was. Turns out to be the never even been made number plate that the eNatis system allocated to my unroadworthy  GasGas 300.  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: 

Come arrest me for that one  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 07, 2014, 02:03:27 pm
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Chukudeer on January 07, 2014, 02:06:23 pm
The only tolls I am prepared to pay is the R10 at the last 3 fences gate in DeWildt.

 :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: TheBear on January 07, 2014, 02:09:53 pm
Tvg do you press working for sanral have to have an etag?

Much as some may call you names for having a tag it is my honest belief that they may wish to see sanral fail. . But they would not want to see you unemployed. ... dogs are not like that. ....


Personally I hope you find something else soon. I cannot see sanral forcing people to pay in the short to medium term.. and government will not ball them out indefinitely.  Even if they refuse to review car licences. . Can the government afford an eighty percent loss of licence fee revenue? 


Hindsight is a wonderful thing. .a year from now I wonder where the chips will lay. ...

Yes mate at least you know and recall that I was without a job for close to a year. As it is nowdays with medics the market is flooded. Back in 2004 uip to 2009 companies got my e mail from who knows where and offered me jobs as I am a well experienced remote site medic. I have been a medic since 1999 after national service and in EMS SA (fire, medical,rescue and hazmat) for close to 15 years before I continued my career abroad. However, the Gov set ou bursaries to help grade 12's with career oppertuneties and the marked is now flooded with thousands of young well qualified medics and still huge groups of student are being trained. Course name; ECT - 2 years

So I have advertised all over, swallowed my pride and even asked on WD's for help. So a WD helped met to get into ER24 and unto the Sanral project as a motorbike medic. Now I am here and of course before the 3rd of Dec one of the directors urged employees to get tagged and even took us into the service station. So what do you do as an employee, do you kick against it and tell your boss you will never? Easy to sit on the side and make comments, being in the deep water is another story. So yes, that is my side of the story and like mentioned above, I can't affort to 'maybe' get nasty suprizes later on and forsed to pay and play the catch up game. This is what most other people do as well. All other WD's even that got tagged said the same, they are alreaddy on a budged and don't want to be forced to pay later and play the catch up game. We all are obviously against it because we as workers claas feel it. Yes like I said before, there is at least some sort of a service that you pay for (but is should be there in any way) and the only real benefit I have or like is that the tag works on bakwena and now safes the frustration (especially fridays) of a quee.

I am still looking for contract work or other work that pays better, but for now I am stuck in the 'sanral orange uniform' and need to make the best of it. I would love to see this system fail, but I can't participate in it.

Remember the threat about; would you spend R100 000 on your dog for knee replacement?
My answer was no because I cannot affort it; but if I was still earning big money abroad I woul have spent that money on my dog yes! This is the same scenario, the poor people rather get tagged, pay discounted tarrifs and play safe because all are scared that if sanral wins this they will have to catch up......if this doesn't make sense to any one I must rather accept that I'm an idiot then ???

We all need to work for a living.  Any Medic have my respect and I do not care who pays his salary. 

Talking of which, I drove past a serious three car pile up near William Nichol just before Christmas.  As the Sanral rescue were cutting a seriously injured person out of the one car and the Sanral road teams sorted the traffic safely, I could but wonder if the person in the car was tagged, registered or planned to pay?

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Chukudeer on January 07, 2014, 02:13:56 pm
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
.

ICM there is no point in getting violent. Calling the burgers to arms, bombing post offices or the like that you might deem herowick. That would just be silly. Nothing will stop e-tolls. And we are doing exactly that. Nothing.
Without income the beast will slowly grind to a halt.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 07, 2014, 02:21:57 pm
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
.

ICM there is no point in getting violent. Calling the burgers to arms, bombing post offices or the like that you might deem herowick. That would just be silly. Nothing will stop e-tolls. And we are doing exactly that. Nothing.
Without income the beast will slowly grind to a halt.

we disagree, I agree without income the beast will stop ...however we disagree on how to get the income to nothing...I say don't use the roads ....that will guarantee the beast stops absolutely guaranteed ......

there is another aspect to this though , what are the ramifications of SANRAL failing .....has anyone actually thought it through and how does it affect each of us if it does..... maybe short sighted to wish its demise without thinking of the long term aspects to it .... sometimes the devil u know is better than he devil u don't know cos believe me SANRALS demise will have ramifications for all of us....

however , if the money is not funded from tolls it will be funded in another way but funded it will be... there can be no dispute
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 07, 2014, 02:30:42 pm
Why should the victim be tagged , he (like the resdt of us ) pay massive taxes and med aid to supply emergency services , or must we no be "gratefull" that another bunch of crooks get to steal our money. ??? Pfffft.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 07, 2014, 02:40:14 pm
live and let live and let those who have acquired etags learn to see the error of their ways or NOT ...hindsight is always 20/20 hey as someone previously mentioned who knows where the chips will lie in a year from now...

but seriously , if the most militant the cwoss dogs are gonna get is to refuse to get an etag ,well then fuck that is disappointing ...but I spose its easier to sit behind a keyboard and sprout than actually do something....

each to his own hey,
.

ICM there is no point in getting violent. Calling the burgers to arms, bombing post offices or the like that you might deem herowick. That would just be silly. Nothing will stop e-tolls. And we are doing exactly that. Nothing.
Without income the beast will slowly grind to a halt.

you right there though an point taken...calling the burgers to arms rarely has been successful...lets see I think the last time seriously was around 1922 and we know they got lashed...1993 well we know how that happened ,1899 ditto ...sheesh the burgers don't have a very high success rate now do they ...well unless one counts the skirmishes with the unarmed peaceful natives  :pot:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 07, 2014, 03:10:48 pm

we disagree, I agree without income the beast will stop ...however we disagree on how to get the income to nothing...I say don't use the roads ....that will guarantee the beast stops absolutely guaranteed ......

there is another aspect to this though , what are the ramifications of SANRAL failing .....has anyone actually thought it through and how does it affect each of us if it does..... maybe short sighted to wish its demise without thinking of the long term aspects to it .... sometimes the devil u know is better than he devil u don't know cos believe me SANRALS demise will have ramifications for all of us....

however , if the money is not funded from tolls it will be funded in another way but funded it will be... there can be no dispute

I don't think we are really hoping to end Sanral, we are fighting e-tolling of urban roads - if we win, there will probably be a 10c/ltr increase in the fuel price and Sanral will get more funding from govt and maintain the GFIP without the costly e-shit

the fuel levy costs basically nothing to administer, whilst e-tolling costs more than R1B/year - we can't afford to let Gauteng pay that - we are already only receiving R1 from the fiscus for every R4 taxes paid - the govt keep shifting their responsibilities onto the citizens, without reducing the taxes - as citizens, we need to try and stop that
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: alanB on January 07, 2014, 03:58:29 pm
OK guys stay on topic, and cut out the personal attacks.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Koet on January 07, 2014, 03:59:26 pm
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/94342-e-tolls-sms-email-bill-warning.html (http://mybroadband.co.za/news/government/94342-e-tolls-sms-email-bill-warning.html)
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 07, 2014, 04:06:23 pm
No one disputes the roads have to be paid for , in despute is the funding (efficient) methods used

Nothing "personal" but all who have fallen for the scumral and got tags are head in the sand softies ( to put it mildly)
Grow a pair please , not for my sake , but for your own childrens sake , coz if this goes thru , there is no stopping them to how far they will go to steal from you , and your kids
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 07, 2014, 05:44:36 pm
:thumleft: good for you, I am not going to get involved and personnal. I and many others decided to play safe. Over 1,6 million others to be more spesific. Don't ask me where I got the numbers, not thumb sucking though...it's for real. Cheers :)

Why on earth would Sanral under declare the number of e-tags?

Why does he quote "number sold", can't his ultra expensive "user pays" system tell him how many are "registered"?



"One month after the launch of e-tolling in Gauteng, the South African National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) says 960,000 e-tags have been sold"

http://ewn.co.za/2014/01/07/Sanral-960000-etags-sold?fb_action_ids=762999730396116&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map= (http://ewn.co.za/2014/01/07/Sanral-960000-etags-sold?fb_action_ids=762999730396116&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=)
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Chukudeer on January 07, 2014, 06:13:16 pm
 :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Me thinks that's how many cell numbers they purchased........
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 07, 2014, 07:02:16 pm
:lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Me thinks that's how many cell numbers they purchased........

fucking idiots! I've used the highways quite a bit and received nothing from the farkers, not an SMS, not an email, not a call and not an invoice - I'm starting to feel 'left out'  ;)
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 07, 2014, 09:20:57 pm
The COPE argument is just playing the man, not the ball. It serves no purpose.

At least my argument is on principle and playing the ball.

Attacking me, will not not make my point that conforming to etolls is supporting corruption and government bullying, less valid.  So try again. 

 :thumleft:

a black merican KR


http://www.youtube.com/v/Wha1LajpOmY
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: alanB on January 08, 2014, 08:16:01 am
Ok I did ask you guys to stop the personal attacks.

All the infamatory posts have been deleted.

Further action is pending.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 08, 2014, 11:49:40 am
some interesting info from the facebook page of the "Proudly e-Tag Free" group



"Lets set something straight.

VPC is a division of SANRAL (Violations Processing Centre) and is NOT A DEBT COLLECTOR.

These SMSs and emails from SANRAL are sure signs of a failing system. The SMSs are part of an intimidation strategy deployed by SANRAL.

What you have received is not an invoice nor a statement so you do not have to pay. There is a huge problem with cloned number plates and SANRAL has said you don't have to pay if your bill is incorrect due to a cloned plate. Therefore they have to provide you with a detailed, itemized original invoice and photographic proof of each and every gantry pass before you can be expected to pay.

In their terms and conditions they clearly state they have to send you an invoice within 32 days after the 7 day grace period.

Our advice is to ignore the SMS and do not get a tag or register. Request a detailed invoice.

Furthermore they need to send you original tax invoices, NOT copy tax invoices as you cannot submit these to SARS.

In order to determine if all the items billed for are in fact your vehicles and not cloned plates, there has to be a photo of each and every gantry pass. On all the invoices we've seen, there are only 3 photos of a SINGLE gantry pass (front, back and side) - this is unacceptable.

Please share this information
Visit and like our page www.facebook.com/proudly.etagfree (http://www.facebook.com/proudly.etagfree)"
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 08, 2014, 01:48:03 pm
Allrighty, while I still can post pending further action and seeing as the notion of principle was raised lets look at some of the facts here:

1. It is now LAW to pay for the usage of certain highways in Gauteng. In a nutshell if you use the road you must pay for it. Finished en klaar , this is law as it currently stands. I know OUTA and the COPE's bedmates the FF+ are proposing to test this in the Con court however currently it is law. This is not law only for those that have etags, but law for anyone that uses and goes under these gantries. To date neither OUTA or FF+ have actually achieved any victories in their battles, although OUTA did get the whole system delayed but not stopped. So to date SANRAL 1 - OUTA etc 0

2. The purchasing of an etag does not legitimise something that is already in operation. Again this is clear, its already law ....

3. Those opposing these toll roads ( and I can assure you that even those with tags would prefer NOT to pay tolls we taxed enough as it is) are not opposing the fact that we should pay but opposing the fact we should get tagged. the general consensus is that " I will pay when they drag my ass to court" kinda thing. And you know what, you well within yr legal rigths to do so. If you want to spend extra money and get a big bill you are welcome to this, its a free country and while I think that's madness live an let live hey.  If anyone is proposing we actually break the law and refuse to pay well then we on shaky ground cos then you opening a Pandora's box which may not be that easy to close later on...you cant just decide which laws are ok to break an which not...we are already a society that is fairly lawless and I think it prudent to obey the law.

4. There is a lot of emotion around this and I think that is indicative of our society as a whole , all is NOT well in ZA, the ANC are proving to be the worst damn govt this beautiful country as ever had. I sued the highways when they were modified back in the early 90's , no tolling needed.

5. The principle of user pays is as old as the Roman days and I daresay possibly predates that too, I concede the current system is inefficient and lots of money goes overseas however to expect ole piet in Orania to pay for a road he will never use is not exactly right either. A fuel levy also has implications that are far reaching.

6. can we actually afford SANRAL to fail on this one? seriously can we?

My position on this is neither indicative of a vote of confidence in the ANC, SANRAL or any of its affiliation or an endorsement of the system, my position is one of expediency for me. If OUTA and thoise opposing the purchase of etags are prepared to pay the difference at the end of the day then sure I will get rid of it. What OUTA don't tell you is that you , yes you, will be liable for your entire bill should their applications fail.

Ultimately the biggest problem around the whole thing is the lack of knowledge and how rumours spread like wildfire and are accepted as truth , even by ppl are generally more discerning. If any rumour fits their paradigm they latch onto it like a cat to a mouse. PErfect example is the pic with the cameras missing at a gantry. Ppl were high fiving each other and saying look look....no one bothered to think , hang on a minute if cameras at one have been stolen why not at all....strange that ne...

me, to date my total e toll bill has come to 43 cents ...yip ..and that is cos I did not realise there was a bloody gantry as one comes into jhb from the south after a cycling event.

Etolls have now been around for 5 weeks give or take , and we still have yet to get one protest ride off the ground , and we still resorting to name calling....

So all you champions of the resistance, what is your bill to date?

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 08, 2014, 02:04:06 pm
I can assure everyone that although I dont agree with ICM's opinion and actions in this regard (as explained many times) I do like the old drol in person and am backing out of the heaqted stuff for the sake of good personal relations :thumleft:

I love you ICM O0
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Ganjora on January 08, 2014, 02:07:40 pm
So all you champions of the resistance, what is your bill to date?

no idea,  i haven't received one yet.
and,
when i do,
i will make sure that SANRAL does absolutely everything which is prescribed in the Act.
I will,  of course,  eventually have to pay,
BUT,
if i make them spend more on the recovery (or as close to it as possible),  then the actual toll was,
i will have won myself a small victory.

wrt old piet in orania,
Gauteng basically subsidise the whole country when it comes to tax.
he can fucking well pay his fuel levy.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 08, 2014, 02:25:27 pm
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 08, 2014, 02:50:00 pm
I can assure everyone that although I dont agree with ICM's opinion and actions in this regard (as explained many times) I do like the old drol in person and am backing out of the heaqted stuff for the sake of good personal relations :thumleft:

I love you ICM O0

I love you too Kilroy ..a whole lot and these debates just strengthen my love for you  :biggrin:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 08, 2014, 02:50:25 pm
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??



must of been bloody effective ones hey
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 08, 2014, 02:54:51 pm
So all you champions of the resistance, what is your bill to date?

no idea,  i haven't received one yet.
and,
when i do,
i will make sure that SANRAL does absolutely everything which is prescribed in the Act.
I will,  of course,  eventually have to pay,
BUT,
if i make them spend more on the recovery (or as close to it as possible),  then the actual toll was,
i will have won myself a small victory.

wrt old piet in orania,
Gauteng basically subsidise the whole country when it comes to tax.
he can fucking well pay his fuel levy.

absolutely within your right to do so my good man ...... but it is possible that their additional costs may end up being borne by you hey ..... u know legal fees, tracking fees , jimmy abbot fee etc etc ...

I know that, in Gauteng we subsidize the whole country and we subsidize them deadbeats on welfare that will never pay tax etc etc but is it really fair to tax oom piet? By doing that you advocating something you against in the first place (ie subsidising others)

Ganjora, just in case you wondering , I love you as much as I love Kilroy hey ...  where da kiss kiss icon
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 08, 2014, 03:09:34 pm
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??



must of been bloody effective ones hey

They were quite ,
 sadly due to the spineless ,innactive , keyboard warrior attitude , from the majority of affected people , they werent as effective as they could have been , but we will keep trying , on behalf of all , especially as it is a totally innefective way of collecting the monies needed to build and maintain our roads , hey fukkkk some has to do it hey , even if the affore mentioned people enjoy slagging us off
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Mr Zog on January 08, 2014, 03:10:37 pm
I hear your opinion on this debate ICM, but here is my opinion;

Firstly its not law to get tagged, so I won't.
Secondly, Sanral MUST bill me in accordance with the law. Basically they have 32 days to do so, after the expiry of the 7 day period of grace.
Thirdly, I am hoping that the opposition to e-toll (OUTA, FF+, etc) will win their court case, and e-tolls will be binned.

I will pay, when Sanral complies with the Act, and bills me accordingly. AND PROVES that it was my vehicle at EACH and EVERY gantry they bill me for.

Simple.

I'm not breaking any laws, in fact I'm insisting that Sanral complies...  :pot:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 08, 2014, 03:16:02 pm
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??



must of been bloody effective ones hey

They were quite ,
 sadly due to the spineless ,innactive , keyboard warrior attitude , from the majority of affected people , they werent as effective as they could have been , but we will keep trying , on behalf of all , especially as it is a totally innefective way of collecting the monies needed to build and maintain our roads , hey fukkkk some has to do it hey , even if the affore mentioned people enjoy slagging us off

Welcome to the Saffer syndrome ...... we all bitch an whine but when called to actually do something we have to wash our hair or something..
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 08, 2014, 03:20:48 pm
I hear your opinion on this debate ICM, but here is my opinion;

Firstly its not law to get tagged, so I won't.
Secondly, Sanral MUST bill me in accordance with the law. Basically they have 32 days to do so, after the expiry of the 7 day period of grace.
Thirdly, I am hoping that the opposition to e-toll (OUTA, FF+, etc) will win their court case, and e-tolls will be binned.

I will pay, when Sanral complies with the Act, and bills me accordingly. AND PROVES that it was my vehicle at EACH and EVERY gantry they bill me for.

Simple.

I'm not breaking any laws, in fact I'm insisting that Sanral complies...  :pot:

absolutely right and well within your rights to do so.

where does this 32 day period come from and where does it state you are excused if not received, where is this formulated?

Edit: if you are referring to the below be well aware of the fact that if the letter does not get to you within 39 days, it does not mean you are excused. The act is also silent on a number of issues , I look forward to them being tested

In terms of regulation 6(5) of the e-Road regulations "If an alternate user does not pay the toll contemplated in terms of sub-regulation (4) within the time and at the place and subject to the conditions that the Agency may make known and determine, the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user, to the last known address provided in terms of the National Road Traffic Act by such user, reflecting the amount of the toll payable and such invoice shall be paid by the said user on or before the date reflected on the invoice."
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 08, 2014, 03:22:52 pm
There have been at least 4 protest rides, and several "static" ones at offramps , where were u ??



must of been bloody effective ones hey

They were quite ,
 sadly due to the spineless ,innactive , keyboard warrior attitude , from the majority of affected people , they werent as effective as they could have been , but we will keep trying , on behalf of all , especially as it is a totally innefective way of collecting the monies needed to build and maintain our roads , hey fukkkk some has to do it hey , even if the affore mentioned people enjoy slagging us off

Welcome to the Saffer syndrome ...... we all bitch an whine but when called to actually do something we have to wash our hair or something..

Not all of us
I am well aware of the "saffer syndrom" , and yes it is disgusting, but a reality , but i choose to at least try
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Mr Zog on January 08, 2014, 03:47:11 pm
I hear your opinion on this debate ICM, but here is my opinion;

Firstly its not law to get tagged, so I won't.
Secondly, Sanral MUST bill me in accordance with the law. Basically they have 32 days to do so, after the expiry of the 7 day period of grace.
Thirdly, I am hoping that the opposition to e-toll (OUTA, FF+, etc) will win their court case, and e-tolls will be binned.

I will pay, when Sanral complies with the Act, and bills me accordingly. AND PROVES that it was my vehicle at EACH and EVERY gantry they bill me for.

Simple.

I'm not breaking any laws, in fact I'm insisting that Sanral complies...  :pot:

absolutely right and well within your rights to do so.

where does this 32 day period come from and where does it state you are excused if not received, where is this formulated?

Edit: if you are referring to the below be well aware of the fact that if the letter does not get to you within 39 days, it does not mean you are excused. The act is also silent on a number of issues , I look forward to them being tested

In terms of regulation 6(5) of the e-Road regulations "If an alternate user does not pay the toll contemplated in terms of sub-regulation (4) within the time and at the place and subject to the conditions that the Agency may make known and determine, the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user, to the last known address provided in terms of the National Road Traffic Act by such user, reflecting the amount of the toll payable and such invoice shall be paid by the said user on or before the date reflected on the invoice."


I think its quite clear ICM.

They have to bill me within 39 days, its in their act.

So IF I get an invoice, AND the date on the invoice is NOT within the 39 days stiplated in THEIR act, I will return said invoice to them, with a copy of the relevant act, and tell them to take me to court.

Maybe I will be the first one, and it can set a precedent? If not, the first person to test this act will set the precedent, and then they will have to make sure that they comply by sending out their invoices witin the specified time-frame.

Maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist, but I believe in the Law...  :peepwall:

Oh, and according to my calculations, they only have 4 more days to issue my first invoice, I used the e-toll road on the day they opened  :ricky:

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Rooikat on January 09, 2014, 07:01:00 am
A lot of hot circulating here........

I am not getting an e-tag.
 I will use the "freeways".
If I receive an invoice and it does not comply legally' I will query it (registered post).
Any thing else I will disregard - they cannot prove you received anything in this country unless its registered mail.

Good luck to them getting money from me. Still to receive an invoice........
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Mzee on January 09, 2014, 07:09:27 am
A lot of hot circulating here........

I am not getting an e-tag.
 I will use the "freeways".
If I receive an invoice and it does not comply legally' I will query it (registered post).
Any thing else I will disregard - they cannot prove you received anything in this country unless its registered mail.

Good luck to them getting money from me. Still to receive an invoice........

I ride normally and wait for anyone to contact me about paying.  We shall take it from there.  He heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! :biggrin:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 09, 2014, 08:16:31 am
ICM, you need to realise we are exactly doing something by not doing anything. Its all we have to do, dont get etagged make it as difficult for them as possible to get money out of us.

Thats all. No protests, no mass rides, no letters, nothing. Just legal non compliance.

Everyone understands and agree with this approach. Why do you not seem to choose to understand this?

And.... Why get etagged if you dont intend to use the freeways? (I cant seem to get an answer for this. Something wrong?)

Seriously. Its not about burning and breaking things. Or about mass civil unrest. Its about legal non compliance. Simple as that - doing nothing will achieve a lot. Please try to understand this.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 09, 2014, 08:27:39 am
I hear your opinion on this debate ICM, but here is my opinion;

Firstly its not law to get tagged, so I won't.
Secondly, Sanral MUST bill me in accordance with the law. Basically they have 32 days to do so, after the expiry of the 7 day period of grace.
Thirdly, I am hoping that the opposition to e-toll (OUTA, FF+, etc) will win their court case, and e-tolls will be binned.

I will pay, when Sanral complies with the Act, and bills me accordingly. AND PROVES that it was my vehicle at EACH and EVERY gantry they bill me for.

Simple.

I'm not breaking any laws, in fact I'm insisting that Sanral complies...  :pot:

absolutely right and well within your rights to do so.

where does this 32 day period come from and where does it state you are excused if not received, where is this formulated?

Edit: if you are referring to the below be well aware of the fact that if the letter does not get to you within 39 days, it does not mean you are excused. The act is also silent on a number of issues , I look forward to them being tested

In terms of regulation 6(5) of the e-Road regulations "If an alternate user does not pay the toll contemplated in terms of sub-regulation (4) within the time and at the place and subject to the conditions that the Agency may make known and determine, the Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user, to the last known address provided in terms of the National Road Traffic Act by such user, reflecting the amount of the toll payable and such invoice shall be paid by the said user on or before the date reflected on the invoice."


I think its quite clear ICM.

They have to bill me within 39 days, its in their act.

So IF I get an invoice, AND the date on the invoice is NOT within the 39 days stiplated in THEIR act, I will return said invoice to them, with a copy of the relevant act, and tell them to take me to court.

Maybe I will be the first one, and it can set a precedent? If not, the first person to test this act will set the precedent, and then they will have to make sure that they comply by sending out their invoices witin the specified time-frame.

Maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist, but I believe in the Law...  :peepwall:

Oh, and according to my calculations, they only have 4 more days to issue my first invoice, I used the e-toll road on the day they opened  :ricky:



No its not clear ....the act merely says they have to invoice you within that period of time not the fact that you must receive the invoice. I suspect even failing to actually receive the invoice the debt will only prescribe in due course (3 years) The fact that the post office has a go slow or dumps the mail does not excuse you of the debt. guys, don't rely on this 39 day period as a way to get out of the debt. Please don't.

another lil issue you okes must not forget is that it is clearly marked that you must pay tolls, u cannot claim ignorance of this down the line. So if you use the road you know there is an obligation pay.

in closing on this, SANRAL is under no obligation to ensure you receive the invoice within 39 days ...merely the fact that they must issue an invoice within the period...if you only get it a year down the line you will be liable. simple

Edit: Meant to add, in terms of section 6(6) if a user fails to pay SANRAL can follow criminal and civil processes to get payment. Now this has obviously yet to be tested but if SANRAL are sucesful in this you will be liable for the initial payment and a hefty chunk of legal fees .......

Now OUTA have run out of funds taking this to the courts and they been sponsored by society at large.....can you as an individual afford this if you lose...and even if you win its going to cost you a lot...

Just on the photogrpahs mentioned in a previous post, an invoice does NOT have to have a photograph of every gantry passed..... you are of course entitled to go to a SANRAL office an request all of this....from what I can make it this does NOT delay the process of payment.

look, there is a lot of stuff that has yet to be tested and ironed out ...... but thus far SANRAL have had the upper hand, I suspect this is going to be maintained due to pressure from the govrnement etc.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 09, 2014, 08:29:46 am
ICM, you need to realise we are exactly doing something by not doing anything. Its all we have to do, dont get etagged make it as difficult for them as possible to get money out of us.

Thats all. No protests, no mass rides, no letters, nothing. Just legal non compliance.

Everyone understands and agree with this approach. Why do you not seem to choose to understand this?

And.... Why get etagged if you dont intend to use the freeways? (I cant seem to get an answer for this. Something wrong?)

Seriously. Its not about burning and breaking things. Or about mass civil unrest. Its about legal non compliance. Simple as that - doing nothing will achieve a lot. Please try to understand this.

doing nothing is not very revolutionary....

I am beginning to debate with myself whether to opt out of the etag thing to be honest...... expediency was the reason to get one I guess.

I think history will show that passive resistance in Africa does not work....the majority will silently just go with the flow which is dictated to by the leaders....
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: alanB on January 09, 2014, 08:32:12 am
I think it comes down to your overall objective.

Some people's objective seems to be just to be affected as little as possible by this mess - so they take the path of least resistance/cost and their actions will follow that.  

Others want to try and resist/opposed what they feel is an unjust new form of tax - for them they want to try and cause as much difficulty as they can for the authorities who are trying to impose that system.

If you can understand what your objectives are, then its easy to decide what you should do.


 
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: toucan on January 09, 2014, 09:08:10 am
ICM is right that SANRAL has the upper hand and you will pay if you use the highways. You can bitch and moan and jump up and down but you will pay. The government always get their dues.

i haven't registered and don't use the highways. if i don't use the highways they don't get money. if they don't get money they have to change their funding model. the extra effort is worth it if it brings about change. using the highways and claiming passive resistance is illogical because you will pay.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: alanB on January 09, 2014, 09:21:43 am
using the highways and claiming passive resistance is illogical because you will pay.

I dont agree.

Again I go back to my objective point I made above.

It doesnt matter whether you pay or not, only that you caused as much difficulty for the authorities.  By paying late, not simply registering, not not getting an etag, insisting on a posted invoice, insisting on proof, delaying payment, or simply refusing to pay etc etc are all valid ways of resisting the system.  If everyone does what they can, it all adds up.

The objective isnt to "get away with not paying" - its to resist.

So far the government has never had the people of the country start resist just coughhing up money on demand, to fund its continued stupidity and fraud.  Its an historic and important point that is being made so in my opinion its very worthwhile.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Sylvester on January 09, 2014, 09:27:03 am
Everyone's situation is different and therefore the "Resistance" strategy can also not be a one size fits all.

Some people use the highways only occasionally, so their e-toll bill will be small change and it would make sense for this crowd to not register and play the delay game and force the maximum administrative burden on SANRAL to collect the least amount of revenue after a couple of months.

Some guys (like me) use the highways a lot and can accumulate a couple of thousand rands a month on their e-toll bill.  If this crowd don't register they will have to pay a huge amount to SANRAL for the same administrative burden.  SANRAL will then actually score, because for the price of a few registered letters, they get paid over e.g. R12000 after six months instead of R2700 if that person was tagged. (I have taken my personal situation in this example)

This is why I decided to get tagged instead and rather contribute to OUTAs future court cases with the money I save.  In the big picture, this makes more sense to me.

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Beebop on January 09, 2014, 09:42:07 am
Can someone tell me, does the R450 cap for tagged users only apply to cars ? What about bikes that already have a lower
per km cost, is it also R450 ?
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Koet on January 09, 2014, 09:46:50 am
Everyone's situation is different and therefore the "Resistance" strategy can also not be a one size fits all.

Some people use the highways only occasionally, so their e-toll bill will be small change and it would make sense for this crowd to not register and play the delay game and force the maximum administrative burden on SANRAL to collect the least amount of revenue after a couple of months.

Some guys (like me) use the highways a lot and can accumulate a couple of thousand rands a month on their e-toll bill.  If this crowd don't register they will have to pay a huge amount to SANRAL for the same administrative burden.  SANRAL will then actually score, because for the price of a few registered letters, they get paid over e.g. R12000 after six months instead of R2700 if that person was tagged. (I have taken my personal situation in this example)

This is why I decided to get tagged instead and rather contribute to OUTAs future court cases with the money I save.  In the big picture, this makes more sense to me.



I completely understand your argument and commend you for donating to OUTA.  I don't use the highways for commuting and will try to not use them at all if I can help.  For the couple of times that I need to, I will make SANRAL work for their money.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Beebop on January 09, 2014, 10:10:02 am
Can someone tell me, does the R450 cap for tagged users only apply to cars ? What about bikes that already have a lower
per km cost, is it also R450 ?
Nevermind, I looked it up. its R250 for class A1 vehicles.

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: TVB on January 09, 2014, 10:23:27 am
Everyone's situation is different and therefore the "Resistance" strategy can also not be a one size fits all.

Some people use the highways only occasionally, so their e-toll bill will be small change and it would make sense for this crowd to not register and play the delay game and force the maximum administrative burden on SANRAL to collect the least amount of revenue after a couple of months.

Some guys (like me) use the highways a lot and can accumulate a couple of thousand rands a month on their e-toll bill.  If this crowd don't register they will have to pay a huge amount to SANRAL for the same administrative burden.  SANRAL will then actually score, because for the price of a few registered letters, they get paid over e.g. R12000 after six months instead of R2700 if that person was tagged. (I have taken my personal situation in this example)

This is why I decided to get tagged instead and rather contribute to OUTAs future court cases with the money I save.  In the big picture, this makes more sense to me.



I am with you on this
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 09, 2014, 10:31:20 am
ICM, you need to realise we are exactly doing something by not doing anything. Its all we have to do, dont get etagged make it as difficult for them as possible to get money out of us.

Thats all. No protests, no mass rides, no letters, nothing. Just legal non compliance.

Everyone understands and agree with this approach. Why do you not seem to choose to understand this?

And.... Why get etagged if you dont intend to use the freeways? (I cant seem to get an answer for this. Something wrong?)

Seriously. Its not about burning and breaking things. Or about mass civil unrest. Its about legal non compliance. Simple as that - doing nothing will achieve a lot. Please try to understand this.

doing nothing is not very revolutionary....

I am beginning to debate with myself whether to opt out of the etag thing to be honest...... expediency was the reason to get one I guess.

I think history will show that passive resistance in Africa does not work....the majority will silently just go with the flow which is dictated to by the leaders....

question is what we want out of it.  We dont want a revolution - we want to pay for things like in this case road improvements in fair, efficient and non corrupt ways.  By firstly utilizing the fiscal, if not (reluctantly) the fuel levy - but first prize, less corruption will lead to more fiscal
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 09, 2014, 10:41:59 am
Please remember people , you have alread paid , and continually pay for the upkeep and building of roads
The sad fact that so many continue to capitulate willingly( and without any resistance )  , and support corrupt inneficeint systems , based on enriching the few , at the expense of many , will bring about the misery of the many

Its redicoulous , and tantamount to suicide

But ja .......  Sad
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 09, 2014, 10:50:53 am
ICM, you need to realise we are exactly doing something by not doing anything. Its all we have to do, dont get etagged make it as difficult for them as possible to get money out of us.

Thats all. No protests, no mass rides, no letters, nothing. Just legal non compliance.

Everyone understands and agree with this approach. Why do you not seem to choose to understand this?

And.... Why get etagged if you dont intend to use the freeways? (I cant seem to get an answer for this. Something wrong?)

Seriously. Its not about burning and breaking things. Or about mass civil unrest. Its about legal non compliance. Simple as that - doing nothing will achieve a lot. Please try to understand this.

doing nothing is not very revolutionary....

I am beginning to debate with myself whether to opt out of the etag thing to be honest...... expediency was the reason to get one I guess.

I think history will show that passive resistance in Africa does not work....the majority will silently just go with the flow which is dictated to by the leaders....

question is what we want out of it.  We dont want a revolution - we want to pay for things like in this case road improvements in fair, efficient and non corrupt ways.  By firstly utilizing the fiscal, if not (reluctantly) the fuel levy - but first prize, less corruption will lead to more fiscal

we agree, but then vote the corrupt useless bunch out of power, this is after all a democracy and one you often pronounce as such. So lets vote em out ...simple
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 09, 2014, 11:48:38 am
ICM, you need to realise we are exactly doing something by not doing anything. Its all we have to do, dont get etagged make it as difficult for them as possible to get money out of us.

Thats all. No protests, no mass rides, no letters, nothing. Just legal non compliance.

Everyone understands and agree with this approach. Why do you not seem to choose to understand this?

And.... Why get etagged if you dont intend to use the freeways? (I cant seem to get an answer for this. Something wrong?)

Seriously. Its not about burning and breaking things. Or about mass civil unrest. Its about legal non compliance. Simple as that - doing nothing will achieve a lot. Please try to understand this.

doing nothing is not very revolutionary....

I am beginning to debate with myself whether to opt out of the etag thing to be honest...... expediency was the reason to get one I guess.

I think history will show that passive resistance in Africa does not work....the majority will silently just go with the flow which is dictated to by the leaders....

question is what we want out of it.  We dont want a revolution - we want to pay for things like in this case road improvements in fair, efficient and non corrupt ways.  By firstly utilizing the fiscal, if not (reluctantly) the fuel levy - but first prize, less corruption will lead to more fiscal

we agree, but then vote the corrupt useless bunch out of power, this is after all a democracy and one you often pronounce as such. So lets vote em out ...simple

Ok, now we all know this is not going to happen in the short term.  Its something we need to aspire too, but its a fight on another front.  In the absence of this option, the only alternative is to legally make the system not workable.  This does not mean we are not going to pay for the improvements.  Obviously we must pay, but there are better, much for efficient ways like the fuel levy to use as payment vehicle.  Personally I don't like building these kind of costs into the fuel levy, because it has a devastating long term effect on inflation.  But in this case the effect will be less than charging the transport industry for etolls at a 60% inflated price to cater for tolling, billing and admin.  So its the lessor evil I suppose.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Sylvester on January 09, 2014, 01:12:18 pm

Obviously we must pay, but there are better, much for efficient ways like the fuel levy to use as payment vehicle.  Personally I don't like building these kind of costs into the fuel levy, because it has a devastating long term effect on inflation.  But in this case the effect will be less than charging the transport industry for etolls at a 60% inflated price to cater for tolling, billing and admin.  So its the lessor evil I suppose.

+1
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 09, 2014, 02:12:15 pm
ICM, you need to realise we are exactly doing something by not doing anything. Its all we have to do, dont get etagged make it as difficult for them as possible to get money out of us.

Thats all. No protests, no mass rides, no letters, nothing. Just legal non compliance.

Everyone understands and agree with this approach. Why do you not seem to choose to understand this?

And.... Why get etagged if you dont intend to use the freeways? (I cant seem to get an answer for this. Something wrong?)

Seriously. Its not about burning and breaking things. Or about mass civil unrest. Its about legal non compliance. Simple as that - doing nothing will achieve a lot. Please try to understand this.

doing nothing is not very revolutionary....

I am beginning to debate with myself whether to opt out of the etag thing to be honest...... expediency was the reason to get one I guess.

I think history will show that passive resistance in Africa does not work....the majority will silently just go with the flow which is dictated to by the leaders....

question is what we want out of it.  We dont want a revolution - we want to pay for things like in this case road improvements in fair, efficient and non corrupt ways.  By firstly utilizing the fiscal, if not (reluctantly) the fuel levy - but first prize, less corruption will lead to more fiscal

we agree, but then vote the corrupt useless bunch out of power, this is after all a democracy and one you often pronounce as such. So lets vote em out ...simple

Ok, now we all know this is not going to happen in the short term.  Its something we need to aspire too, but its a fight on another front.  In the absence of this option, the only alternative is to legally make the system not workable.  This does not mean we are not going to pay for the improvements.  Obviously we must pay, but there are better, much for efficient ways like the fuel levy to use as payment vehicle.  Personally I don't like building these kind of costs into the fuel levy, because it has a devastating long term effect on inflation.  But in this case the effect will be less than charging the transport industry for etolls at a 60% inflated price to cater for tolling, billing and admin.  So its the lessor evil I suppose.

so you saying we fucked .....if we cannot vote out this govt then essentially we fucked....you packing for PErth yet? hope jebus comes soon.

no one is arguing that there are better ways to pay for this. not sure adding to the fuel levy is better though.

What happened to the Kilroy that quoted things like "by any means" and condoned the use of violence and the like.....  :pot:

there is only 1 way that is GUARANTEED at this point to cause the etolls to fail in Gauteng ..and that is don't use the roads....every other method at this point is not guaranteed....
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 09, 2014, 02:14:47 pm
ag vok I just read that zuma recons the ANC will rule forever an ever....we fucked, not even jebus can help us now
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 09, 2014, 02:16:59 pm
Just read dude - lees en presteer.

We're not going to vote out the ANC in the short term.  Need a short term plan that can work.  as for violence - bomb em when they take away your human rights, not Big Corn Bites or even Electric Lights
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Koet on January 09, 2014, 02:18:27 pm
so you saying we fucked .....if we cannot vote out this govt then essentially we fucked....you packing for PErth yet? hope jebus comes soon.

no one is arguing that there are better ways to pay for this. not sure adding to the fuel levy is better though.

What happened to the Kilroy that quoted things like "by any means" and condoned the use of violence and the like.....  :pot:

there is only 1 way that is GUARANTEED at this point to cause the etolls to fail in Gauteng ..and that is don't use the roads....every other method at this point is not guaranteed....


I agree this is really the only guaranteed way to shut this down.  But because not everybody will completely stop to use the highways, we need to do tackle this from as many angles as we possibly can.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 09, 2014, 02:19:24 pm
Just read dude - lees en presteer.

We're not going to vote out the ANC in the short term.  Need a short term plan that can work.  as for violence - bomb em when they take away your human rights, not Big Corn Bites or even Electric Lights

Some say the restriction on our movement is taking away our human rights.... and are fighting it from that angle

zuma says never....not even long term

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 09, 2014, 02:24:34 pm
Just read dude - lees en presteer.

We're not going to vote out the ANC in the short term.  Need a short term plan that can work.  as for violence - bomb em when they take away your human rights, not Big Corn Bites or even Electric Lights

Some say the restriction on our movement is taking away our human rights.... and are fighting it from that angle

zuma says never....not even long term



then those can go and do the bombing - preferably suicide bombing in remote areas.  For if you think your human rights are gone in this country, you are downright mad

not using the roads is unfortunately not a practical, viable solution.  the second best one is to make payment near impossible?  This fair?
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: XT JOE on January 09, 2014, 04:37:47 pm

Obviously we must pay, but there are better, much for efficient ways like the fuel levy to use as payment vehicle.  Personally I don't like building these kind of costs into the fuel levy, because it has a devastating long term effect on inflation.  But in this case the effect will be less than charging the transport industry for etolls at a 60% inflated price to cater for tolling, billing and admin.  So its the lessor evil I suppose.

+1

 this is what its all about, the levy in fuel for maintenance & RA fund is wasted, now we need more bucks to finance whatever but oops first we gotto  pay the Austrians who is calling in on the cash in your bank account in exchange for organise goverment tender deal. This thing is going to go south like no tomorow and then go quiet like the arms deal
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Rooikat on January 09, 2014, 04:42:07 pm
Just read dude - lees en presteer.

We're not going to vote out the ANC in the short term.  Need a short term plan that can work.  as for violence - bomb em when they take away your human rights, not Big Corn Bites or even Electric Lights

Some say the restriction on our movement is taking away our human rights.... and are fighting it from that angle

zuma says never....not even long term



then those can go and do the bombing - preferably suicide bombing in remote areas.  For if you think your human rights are gone in this country, you are downright mad

not using the roads is unfortunately not a practical, viable solution.  the second best one is to make payment near impossible?  This fair?

Why is this such a difficult concept for road users to understand? Seems that a lack of logic isn't the prerogative of just Scumral...........

Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 09, 2014, 10:10:56 pm
Hardheadedness...   Jy se nie vir my nie....attitude

Afrikaans = domastrant

If I admit it, i lose the argument. AND i'm never wrong...  So rather say fuck Tony Blair and deny any sense of logic in a confrontational sarcastic arrogant manner. Thats mos how we beat a common enemy....not
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 09, 2014, 10:25:04 pm
I'm starting to consider an alternative strategy: Ignore ALL Sanral communication and wait for a summons - then ask for proof in court - any lawyers that can advise?  :sip: (RobC smily  ;) )
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 09, 2014, 10:26:34 pm
I like that :thumleft:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 10, 2014, 06:41:39 am
I'll also wait for the summons...... chances are that the whole issue won't be there by that time! What with the Apathy that our authorities treat most issues, it will all go quiet like the National Health Insurance that was "imminent" about 8 or 9 months ago.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Nutcracker on January 10, 2014, 07:26:48 am
We really need to start trending #ignoreSanral, don't reply to their sms's, emails, phone calls and the lot, we must not give them anything to work with, they must not beable to phish for any of our information
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: punisher on January 10, 2014, 07:30:36 am
I dont think they will allow it to "go away" too easilly tho , remember , their objective is to steal alll your money and possesions , but ja. Resist we must
Locusts are a disgusting thing
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 10, 2014, 07:52:18 am
Just read dude - lees en presteer.

We're not going to vote out the ANC in the short term.  Need a short term plan that can work.  as for violence - bomb em when they take away your human rights, not Big Corn Bites or even Electric Lights

Some say the restriction on our movement is taking away our human rights.... and are fighting it from that angle

zuma says never....not even long term



then those can go and do the bombing - preferably suicide bombing in remote areas.  For if you think your human rights are gone in this country, you are downright mad

not using the roads is unfortunately not a practical, viable solution.  the second best one is to make payment near impossible?  This fair?

Why is this such a difficult concept for road users to understand? Seems that a lack of logic isn't the prerogative of just Scumral...........



Why go for second best...no no no ...strive for the best
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Rooikat on January 10, 2014, 08:04:42 am
Second best still infinitely better than chickening out!
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: trackSHUN on January 10, 2014, 08:27:46 am
When I got a threatening SMS from the VPC some time back, I [naturally ignored it and did not respond/call, and then] got to thinking a bit about the invoice issue.

So my understanding is that in the absence of voluntary payment within 7 days of passing under a gantry [call it Pass #1], SANRAL is obliged to issue me with an invoice per normal snail-mail to my e-Natis-registered address within 32 days thereafter. So I should receive invoice for the gantry "transaction" by the latest 39 days after the Pass #1 event .... all good & well [still waiting incidentally ......].

Now assume the next day I again pass under a gantry [call it Pass #2], again with no voluntary payment within 7 days.
SANRAL is again obliged to issue me with an invoice per normal snail-mail to my e-Natis-registered address within 32 days, ie day 39+1.
If I continue this daily transaction for a week, SANRAL now have to issue 7 invoices, each with it's own set of "issue by" and "pay by" dates .............. am I correct, or have I grossly misunderstood the provisions and requirements of the Act???

Day 1    -    Pass #1    -    No Pay
Day 2    -    Pass #2    -    No Pay
Day 3    -    Pass #3    -    No Pay
..
..
Day 8      -    Pass #8      -    No Pay   -   Invoice for Pass #1 to be issued
Day 9      -    Pass #9      -    No Pay   -   Invoice for Pass #1 + #2 to be issued
Day 10    -    Pass #10    -    No Pay   -   Invoice for Pass #1, #2 + #3 to be issued
..
..
Day 39    -    Pass #39    -    No Pay   -   Invoice for Pass #1 is now due
Day 40    -    Pass #40    -    No Pay   -   Invoice for Pass #1 + #2 is now due
Day 41    -    Pass #41    -    No Pay   -   Invoice for Pass #1, #2 + #3 is now due
..
..

Add to this scenario the additional administrative burden of tracking Invoice settlements / payments [for both SANRAL & User], and you have a totally incomprehensible admin nightmare that will very quickly become unmanageable.
Perhaps SANRAL intend [for both themselves and the Customers sakes] to batch the transactions on a weekly basis? In my mind, this would merely prolong the inevitable collapse of this dinosaur admin monster that SANRAL have created.

Sit vas and wait for the invoices, guys ....   :ricky:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: KiLRoy on January 10, 2014, 09:10:44 am
Just read dude - lees en presteer.

We're not going to vote out the ANC in the short term.  Need a short term plan that can work.  as for violence - bomb em when they take away your human rights, not Big Corn Bites or even Electric Lights

Some say the restriction on our movement is taking away our human rights.... and are fighting it from that angle

zuma says never....not even long term



then those can go and do the bombing - preferably suicide bombing in remote areas.  For if you think your human rights are gone in this country, you are downright mad

not using the roads is unfortunately not a practical, viable solution.  the second best one is to make payment near impossible?  This fair?

Why is this such a difficult concept for road users to understand? Seems that a lack of logic isn't the prerogative of just Scumral...........



Why go for second best...no no no ...strive for the best

Because although I wanted to marry Cameron Diaz, I had to settle for Carol Adonis.  Dont play stupid.  Doesnt work for you  ;) (back handed complement ;))
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on January 10, 2014, 12:20:59 pm
 :lol8:

http://www.youtube.com/v/m_pLE_Rogfc
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: DeepBass9 on February 05, 2014, 11:39:34 am
Interesting : http://hellopeter.com/sanral/complaints/sanral-is-collapsing-etolls-are-history-1316853 (http://hellopeter.com/sanral/complaints/sanral-is-collapsing-etolls-are-history-1316853)
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: toucan on February 05, 2014, 02:36:37 pm
Interesting : http://hellopeter.com/sanral/complaints/sanral-is-collapsing-etolls-are-history-1316853 (http://hellopeter.com/sanral/complaints/sanral-is-collapsing-etolls-are-history-1316853)

i doubt that this true. bureaucracy doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: XT JOE on February 06, 2014, 06:34:17 am
Peter Wilson ∑ Top Commenter

I thought you had already paid? I know I have. Income Tax - check, fuel levy - check and licence fees - check! Yes, already paid!
 
Be informed. Know your rights.
 http://jp-sa.org/eTolls.asp (http://jp-sa.org/eTolls.asp)

what did he miss
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Mzee on February 06, 2014, 08:13:26 am
I did not register and have no e-tag but use the gantries.  I am still waiting for the invoices.  Now that the post office is on strike, I wonder when these will be delivered. :sip:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Ganjora on February 06, 2014, 08:24:26 am
I did not register and have no e-tag but use the gantries.  I am still waiting for the invoices.  Now that the post office is on strike, I wonder when these will be delivered. :sip:

when they do,  you can crumple them up and use them as fire lighters - that's my plan.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Tommy Transalp on February 06, 2014, 08:33:41 am
I did not register and have no e-tag but use the gantries.  I am still waiting for the invoices.  Now that the post office is on strike, I wonder when these will be delivered. :sip:

when they do,  you can crumple them up and use them as fire lighters - that's my plan.
+1.... been doing that for 3 weeks now. They can't even get the spelling of the street name correct, so technically the document is void! :lol8:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on February 06, 2014, 07:52:54 pm
 :lol8:  hiers jou Bells Kobus  :thumleft:

http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-02-06-1-rekening-vir-tol-in-85-koeverte-gestuur (http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-02-06-1-rekening-vir-tol-in-85-koeverte-gestuur)

 Sanral wou heel duidelik seker maak die Human-gesin kry hul e-tol-rekening.

85 afskrifte van dieselfde rekening vir die tolgeld verskuldig vir hul drie motors is elk in sy eie koevert na hul posadres gestuur.

Tertia Human van Garsfontein, Pretoria, het gesÍ volgens elke rekening het hulle R537,50 geskuld.

Die bedrag lyk vir haar reg. Die rekeninge was vir die tydperk van 3 tot 6 Desember. As die Humans dit teen 16 Januarie sou betaal, sou hulle afslag kry. Die rekeninge is egter eers einde Januarie na hulle gestuur, berig Piet Matipa.

Tertia se man, Kobus, het die rekeninge weggegooi, maar sy het dit uit die asblik gehaal om te tel.

Teen die minimum posgeld van R3 per posstuk het dit minstens R255 gekos om die Humans se rekenings te pos.

Nog ín e-tol-klaer, Othniel Wil≠liams van Eersterust, het ín rekening van Sanral ontvang met ín foto van ín Audi daarop. Wil≠liams besit nie ín Audi nie. ďEk het ín Mercedes-Benz C230 en ín Colt-bakkie.Ē

Jennifer Stein van Gillian Gamsy Interna≠tional (GGI), wat Sanral se openbare betrekkinge hanteer, het gesÍ hulle sal later op diť twee voorvalle reageer.

. Nazir Alli, hoofamptenaar van Sanral, het gister in ín verklaring gesÍ pres. Jacob Zuma se kommer oor verkeerde e-tol-rekenings kry aandag, berig Sapa.

Zuma het aan die SAUK gesÍ sulke foute is onaanvaarbaar en ďmoet gou reggestel wordĒ omdat dit ín doeltreffende stelsel ondermyn.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: wiledog_X on February 07, 2014, 10:39:55 am
the fail that is E-Tolling just gets more epic every day....  ::)

from facebook People Against The Gauteng E-Toll System

Miggz Camacho : People Against The Gauteng E-Toll System
So I got a bill for the REG. This photo was taken in 1998, this bike was scrapped in 2005 and de-registered, so how do i get a bill for this?

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/1897674_10203227693721882_317389804_n.jpg)
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Chukudeer on February 07, 2014, 07:13:22 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Beebop on February 07, 2014, 07:41:40 pm
Sanral was kind enough to send these to me last week.
6 envelopes, approx 20 pages.
According to them , approx R1600 worth.
Oh and I received an e-mail from the VPC on my corporate e-mail too.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on February 07, 2014, 08:30:53 pm
 :lol8: :lol8:

I hope those farkers are printing on recycled paper.......
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: knightrat on February 07, 2014, 11:18:24 pm
Whats sad is we're gonna pay for the incompetence either by fuel levy or taxes.. gantries don't fall out the sky.. pity they can't sell the presidential cattle to pay for it...  :xxbah:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Cracker on February 09, 2014, 01:25:14 pm
Got the phone call today - when you gonna pay sir?

It seems 'never' is the wrong answer - hope I'm not the first one in court  ::)
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Tommy Transalp on February 09, 2014, 03:31:37 pm
Got the phone call today - when you gonna pay sir?

It seems 'never' is the wrong answer - hope I'm not the first one in court  ::)
:laughing4: :laughing4:... I suppose "faarkoff" is also not the correct answer! >:D Apparently the JPSA and the DA are just waiting for a court case to come up. They will have to summons you to appear in court first though, and you are entitled to request detailed evidence from Scamral before the hearing. This will cause lank delays and lots of money/time on their behalf.
I wouldn't be too concerned at this stage! :thumleft:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on February 09, 2014, 06:42:59 pm
Got the phone call today - when you gonna pay sir?

It seems 'never' is the wrong answer - hope I'm not the first one in court  ::)

just ignore them - put the phone down mid-sentence - all they have at this stage, is idle threats - SABC has been phoning and SMS'ing me for the past 3 years, without success and there are probably fewer TV licence dodgers than e-toll dodgers - ek wil nie meer saamwerk nie  :xxbah:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: brianw on March 12, 2014, 08:21:18 am
e tool hacked- check this out
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on March 12, 2014, 11:50:17 am
e tool hacked- check this out

that serves people right that want to share their info with Sanral
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: XT JOE on March 25, 2014, 07:59:42 am
Probably asked before- anyone experienced if they block your licsence renewals due to e toll outstanding as we had some AARTO fines outstanding causing a mark on sytem - stopping liscence renewals. A few  e mails to various Transport departments and marks lifted-- very impressive for what its worth.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: mox on March 25, 2014, 08:05:59 am
Probably asked before- anyone experienced if they block your licsence renewals due to e toll outstanding as we had some AARTO fines outstanding causing a mark on sytem - stopping liscence renewals. A few  e mails to various Transport departments and marks lifted-- very impressive for what its worth.


I just did 3 renewals and a new license so no they cant block your renewals, that was all made up threats by SCUMRAL to scare the public into registering.
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on March 25, 2014, 09:29:20 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Cracker on March 26, 2014, 02:20:24 pm
So what's happening with e-tolls? has it died a death yet?

I have a special desk where I put all the invoices and my collection was coming along nicely. I even have some first-day issues that should be worth a bob or two in a few years time.  ;)

Now the bastards have stopped sending them, haven't had any for weeks now .....................................
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Tommy Transalp on March 26, 2014, 02:27:42 pm
So what's happening with e-tolls? has it died a death yet?

I have a special desk where I put all the invoices and my collection was coming along nicely. I even have some first-day issues that should be worth a bob or two in a few years time.  ;)

Now the bastards have stopped sending them, haven't had any for weeks now .....................................
He he he.....  :laughing4:.... also running out of bog roll! Haven't heard anything for a while.... maybe they're too busy watching Oscar's shenanigans??
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on March 26, 2014, 07:25:36 pm
So what's happening with e-tolls? has it died a death yet?

I have a special desk where I put all the invoices and my collection was coming along nicely. I even have some first-day issues that should be worth a bob or two in a few years time.  ;)

Now the bastards have stopped sending them, haven't had any for weeks now .....................................

same here! and I've actually been using my roads more - much of a muchness for me however, as I have not even bothered opening my last bills - they can go fuck themselves
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: brianw on April 08, 2014, 12:46:07 pm
to e-tols
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: wiledog_X on April 10, 2014, 03:38:48 pm
my mom received a "Handover Notice" in her email inbox from SANRAL for an amount of R245 odd...... without having received a SINGLE invoice in the post, ever!!!!!  :dousing:
SANRAL, you are looking for k@k.......
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on April 10, 2014, 03:50:03 pm
my mom received a "Handover Notice" in her email inbox from SANRAL for an amount of R245 odd...... without having received a SINGLE invoice in the post, ever!!!!!  :dousing:
SANRAL, you are looking for k@k.......

I hope she's just ignoring it?
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: wiledog_X on April 11, 2014, 01:00:50 pm
my mom received a "Handover Notice" in her email inbox from SANRAL for an amount of R245 odd...... without having received a SINGLE invoice in the post, ever!!!!!  :dousing:
SANRAL, you are looking for k@k.......

I hope she's just ignoring it?


yip.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: e-toll billing: So what are you going to do?
Post by: Bundu on April 11, 2014, 01:26:19 pm
my mom received a "Handover Notice" in her email inbox from SANRAL for an amount of R245 odd...... without having received a SINGLE invoice in the post, ever!!!!!  :dousing:
SANRAL, you are looking for k@k.......

I hope she's just ignoring it?


yip.  :thumleft:

way to go  :thumleft:

If enough of us do that, Sanral is stuffed