Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: Skeltonsc on January 07, 2014, 08:24:09 am

Title: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Skeltonsc on January 07, 2014, 08:24:09 am
Hi Guys,

Was wondering about these damm etags and if the majority of people like myself still use the Free-ways without paying?

Also if I'm on Debt counselling how can I accumulate any more debt if the court has ordered that I cannot?  :deal:

Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: JacquesM on January 07, 2014, 08:37:41 am
Where's the "I'm tagged and unHappy to pay"-option?
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Skeltonsc on January 07, 2014, 08:42:09 am
Where's the "I'm tagged and unHappy to pay"-option?

Sorted, I just thought if you had a tag then you've given up and happy to pay  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: JacquesM on January 07, 2014, 10:19:32 am
My "account" seems to be going towards R10 000 a month.

Without them tags it could be double that.

You see why I'm unHappy to pay?
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 07, 2014, 10:23:46 am
My "account" seems to be going towards R10 000 a month.

Without them tags it could be double that.

You see why I'm unHappy to pay?

I don't have an account or tag, so I pay NOTHING!   In my eyes if you got an e-tag you deserve what you get.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Skeltonsc on January 07, 2014, 10:34:50 am
My "account" seems to be going towards R10 000 a month.

Without them tags it could be double that.

You see why I'm unHappy to pay?

Then you must be in Tranesport then? I also work for a courier company all fleet vehicles are tagged, none of the staff are not even the CEO have a tag
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 07, 2014, 10:37:55 am
It's time companies also stand up against this e-tolling.  Why is it that only the public should fight it?  This should be fought by public and business together.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: laurika on January 07, 2014, 10:42:34 am
standard bank gives away free etags i hear..and my local pick a pay has a etag kiosk inside....do we now have to boycot them too? sigh....at least woolies is still etag-untainted...
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 07, 2014, 10:59:27 am
I got first dibs on the kiosk when the system collapses! :peepwall: :pot:
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 07, 2014, 11:01:00 am
Boycot if you want, don't if you don't want.  I just wish SA businesses would also grow spines and help in the fight.  Not just bend over and pass all the extra costs on to the public.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 07, 2014, 03:28:42 pm
Boycot if you want, don't if you don't want.  I just wish SA businesses would also grow spines and help in the fight.  Not just bend over and pass all the extra costs on to the public.
Boycott businesses that support e-toll. One of my clearing agents wanted to charge an "e-toll levy"..... I closed my account, and am moving elsewhere. Same will happen to any service or supplier that tries that nonsense!... account will be closed..... SHE GONE! >:D
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: GRIM on January 07, 2014, 03:42:07 pm
I got an e-tag.....







It's that little flap of rubber that hangs down over your numberplate & gets you a discount if I understand things correctly...
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 07, 2014, 03:43:11 pm
Well done Tommy!  Now if just more businesses want to grow some balls!
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: ExploreSA on January 07, 2014, 03:50:05 pm
Boycot if you want, don't if you don't want.  I just wish SA businesses would also grow spines and help in the fight.  Not just bend over and pass all the extra costs on to the public.
Boycott businesses that support e-toll. ! >:D

This is why this thread will die early. Nobody wants to stand in the road and be peppered with negativity. Show me one person who lovingly pays e-toll. I don't know any but I know people who registered and are still unhappy about it. So have I because I run a business and have trucks on the road. Boycott me then if you like.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Tommy Transalp on January 07, 2014, 04:02:27 pm
If certain supply chains don't want anything to do with e-toll, what's your company's policy? E-toll is NOT a legal requirement. A lot of co's seem to want to jump on the band-wagon of making extra bucks by pushing the blame on Sanral. What benefit do you get from registering?
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 07, 2014, 04:05:37 pm
If certain supply chains don't want anything to do with e-toll, what's your company's policy? E-toll is NOT a legal requirement. A lot of co's seem to want to jump on the band-wagon of making extra bucks by pushing the blame on Sanral. What benefit do you get from registering?

Exactly!  And all these companies do is to add some extra levy to their services or products so that they can pass the e-toll costs (plus "admin fees" or whatever crap they can think of) on to the next person/company in the chain.   SPINELESS!!!
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: punisher on January 07, 2014, 05:36:00 pm
standard bank gives away free etags i hear..and my local pick a pay has a etag kiosk inside....do we now have to boycot them too? sigh....at least woolies is still etag-untainted...

 would you rent movies from your local DVD store , if they also rented kiddie porn ?
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Bundu on January 07, 2014, 06:49:31 pm
I discussed the point with a director of OneLogix recently - their vehicles all have e-tags. He himself does not have an e-tag and hates the system, but he avoids the highways - I told him he should use them and make it a nightmare for Sanral to get their money, as he can obviously afford it - will see if I've convinced him......

In a way I can understand businesses that use the highways a lot, getting e-tags - they would be the 1st to be targeted by Sanral collection and would be easy prey, as one "person" is responsible for the very large account.

Without big business to chase, Sanral has to chase us, for relatively small amounts and much harder to find - lekker!
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: laurika on January 07, 2014, 07:36:05 pm
standard bank gives away free etags i hear..and my local pick a pay has a etag kiosk inside....do we now have to boycot them too? sigh....at least woolies is still etag-untainted...

 would you rent movies from your local DVD store , if they also rented kiddie porn ?
not sure its really comparing apples with apples....but for the record...i dont rent dvd's.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: JacquesM on January 07, 2014, 08:28:06 pm
I own a small transport business. Without e-tags my account would be in excess of R20 000 per month.

After a year I will owe them one quarter of a bar, excluding penalties and the like.

Now some clever peanut knocks on my door demanding payment.

I tell him to buzz off because I've got balls.

You guys reckon it will work then?
Title: Re:
Post by: ptashark on January 08, 2014, 06:14:36 am
Haven't got an etag. Still awaiting invoice from them. They had 39 days to get it to me, and that expired yesterday.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: alanB on January 08, 2014, 07:08:22 am
It's time companies also stand up against this e-tolling.  Why is it that only the public should fight it?  This should be fought by public and business together.

This is my point as well.

Business leaders need to realise they live in this country as well and have a moral responsibility to contribute towards making the government accountable for its actions.  If one large corporation tells the government to take a hike it has a much larger effect than the CEO saying the same thing in his personal capacity!

Falling over them selves to comply with laws, while saying that they dont agree with them just because they dont want to piss the government is morally indefinsible IMO!
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 08, 2014, 07:20:13 am
Firstly I personally think you should be happy that businesses get e-tags. The costs are going to trickle down to the consumer, no matter how you look at it. And the bigger businesses are easier to target by SANRAL. Thus making it very hard for them to side-step payments with all this tom-foolery mentioned on other pages.

Secondly I think that more credit must be given to business and business owners. Some of the posts here give a feeling that they are only out to trick the public to pay for their e-toll accounts with increases and "hidden costs". I'm pretty sure that in most cases that will not be true. Most successful business people I know will put their customers first and will try to incur as little extra cost to them as they can.

So in agreement with JacquesM over discounts (of up to 45% if tagged), I think that business and business owners are morally obliged if not ethically compelled to get tagged so that they can make sure that all costs that do trickle down to their consumers/customers are as little as possible.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Ganjora on January 08, 2014, 07:24:31 am
This is why this thread will die early. Nobody wants to stand in the road and be peppered with negativity. Show me one person who lovingly pays e-toll. I don't know any but I know people who registered and are still unhappy about it. So have I because I run a business and have trucks on the road. Boycott me then if you like.

certainly,  and with the greatest of pleasure.
please advise as to your company name,  and what you do,  so that i can make certain i boycott you.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: alanB on January 08, 2014, 07:44:48 am
Firstly I personally think you should be happy that businesses get e-tags. The costs are going to trickle down to the consumer, no matter how you look at it. And the bigger businesses are easier to target by SANRAL. Thus making it very hard for them to side-step payments with all this tom-foolery mentioned on other pages.

Secondly I think that more credit must be given to business and business owners. Some of the posts here give a feeling that they are only out to trick the public to pay for their e-toll accounts with increases and "hidden costs". I'm pretty sure that in most cases that will not be true. Most successful business people I know will put their customers first and will try to incur as little extra cost to them as they can.

So in agreement with JacquesM over discounts (of up to 45% if tagged), I think that business and business owners are morally obliged if not ethically compelled to get tagged so that they can make sure that all costs that do trickle down to their consumers/customers are as little as possible.

I'm sorry I dont follow your logic at all?

The only way I can agree that businesses should get etags if their management honestly think etolls are a good idea and they are happy paying those amounts.

If - like the rest of us - they think etags are morally wrong, then they should do something about that!

And I'm saying they are in a better position to do something than us individuals!

As citizens of the country they have the moral obligation, just like the rest of us, to hold the government accountable for its actions.  And not just hide behind excuses saying profit comes first and maybe their profits will suffer if they stand up and speak out.

I wasnt at all implying they are trying to make money out of etolls - but I am insisting they should speak out and do what they can to oppose the system!

Getting etagged just to get the discount is like paying a smaller bribe than your competitor and thinking thats somehow virtuous IMO.

Why not just refuse to pay and tell the government loudly and publically why you wont?

Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: KiLRoy on January 08, 2014, 07:46:44 am
It's time companies also stand up against this e-tolling.  Why is it that only the public should fight it?  This should be fought by public and business together.

This is my point as well.

Business leaders need to realise they live in this country as well and have a moral responsibility to contribute towards making the government accountable for its actions.  If one large corporation tells the government to take a hike it has a much larger effect than the CEO saying the same thing in his personal capacity!

Falling over them selves to comply with laws, while saying that they dont agree with them just because they dont want to piss the government is morally indefinsible IMO!


Spot on, business in SA have a history of bending backwards for government while farking their clients.  Business (especially big business) must grow some balls.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 08, 2014, 08:14:58 am

As citizens of the country they have the moral obligation, just like the rest of us,....


You are hammering on 2 different points here. As citizens? Business as a entity cannot be classified as a citizen. Although there are individuals working within the company structure that are.

If a company employs 100 people and have a fleet of 20 vehicles it comprises of a company unit that has 20 registered e-tags, but a potential 100 unregistered highway users that are fighting the system. In that structure they are at least countering for excessive cost increases by tagging the business vehicles and protecting their clients by doing so, but still as individual citizens are trying to fight the good cause.

Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 08, 2014, 08:24:10 am

As citizens of the country they have the moral obligation, just like the rest of us,....


You are hammering on 2 different points here. As citizens? Business as a entity cannot be classified as a citizen. Although there are individuals working within the company structure that are.

If a company employs 100 people and have a fleet of 20 vehicles it comprises of a company unit that has 20 registered e-tags, but a potential 100 unregistered highway users that are fighting the system. In that structure they are at least countering for excessive cost increases by tagging the business vehicles and protecting their clients by doing so, but still as individual citizens are trying to fight the good cause.



Fair enough, IF said company asks their staff NOT to get e-tags and to help them should they get a summons etc.  But sadly all companies I know of either buy e-tags for their employees or have some sort of scheme where they help SANRAL tag their employees (by making registration easier, handing out free tags or whatever).  How is that helping the public in it's fight against this system?  No, most businesses bend over backwards to comply AND to get their employees to comply.  Then, once they get their e-toll accounts it's inevitable that most if not all businesses will pass that cost straight on to the next person/company in the chain.  Maybe not initially (as businesses try to keep clients), but once they see that everybody else is starting to do it, the only link in the chain that will actually pay for e-tolls (AGAIN!) will be the consumer, who in a lot of cases will pay e-tolls to get to work.  And guess what, we're ALL consumers.

So if you think having an e-tag will save you money, you're delusional at best.  If you don't stand up (whether you're a business or individual) and do whatever you can to fight this, you WILL get shafted.  And not only by SANRAL, but by all the businesses you buy from.

And that's a FACT!
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: alanB on January 08, 2014, 08:28:50 am

As citizens of the country they have the moral obligation, just like the rest of us,....


You are hammering on 2 different points here. As citizens? Business as a entity cannot be classified as a citizen. Although there are individuals working within the company structure that are.

If a company employs 100 people and have a fleet of 20 vehicles it comprises of a company unit that has 20 registered e-tags, but a potential 100 unregistered highway users that are fighting the system. In that structure they are at least countering for excessive cost increases by tagging the business vehicles and protecting their clients by doing so, but still as individual citizens are trying to fight the good cause.



A company has a legal persona, so it is a citizen of the country - that's merely from a legal perspective.

But its more than that.  If a company like say FNB or Vodacom, or some other heavy hitter issued a statement as a company saying they did not agree and would not be paying, you have to agree that would have a very large effect?

Why dont they?
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 08, 2014, 08:43:44 am
@Koet - I'm experiencing it totally opposite from business people and owners I know. As individuals they are not complying and are effectively not pushing e-tags. I don't know 100's, I must admit. But still.

@alanB - big business like the 2 mentioned by you has unfortunately more to loose through civil disobedience than they will ever gain from it. They have mayor foreign investments and investors to keep happy. They have a global spectator base to keep up appearances. Not only for themselves, but for all other SA companies and businesses that need and get investments locally and abroad. You must be able to see why they can't afford to be seen as "law breakers".
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: alanB on January 08, 2014, 09:05:53 am

@alanB - big business like the 2 mentioned by you has unfortunately more to loose through civil disobedience than they will ever gain from it. They have mayor foreign investments and investors to keep happy. They have a global spectator base to keep up appearances. Not only for themselves, but for all other SA companies and businesses that need and get investments locally and abroad. You must be able to see why they can't afford to be seen as "law breakers".

This is precisely what I am questioning.

Do they really have more to lose?  What are they going to say when the country descends into a mess in the long term and then their shareholders/investors take flight anyway?

What about the loss of disposable income of indivuals that etaolls represents?  Thats money that could have been used fpr savings, investment, growth etc?

Hiding behind short term potential loss in profits as an excuse for not speaking up is very difficult to defend IMO.

And in any event - most companies will accept that they have a responsibilty to safety for eg and spend a lot on that - which directly affect their profits, but its considered the morally right thing to do, the same goes for environmental protection, social upliftment etc etc.  Why is etolls impossible to consider in the same light?
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 08, 2014, 09:06:40 am
@Koet - I'm experiencing it totally opposite from business people and owners I know. As individuals they are not complying and are effectively not pushing e-tags. I don't know 100's, I must admit. But still.

@alanB - big business like the 2 mentioned by you has unfortunately more to loose through civil disobedience than they will ever gain from it. They have mayor foreign investments and investors to keep happy. They have a global spectator base to keep up appearances. Not only for themselves, but for all other SA companies and businesses that need and get investments locally and abroad. You must be able to see why they can't afford to be seen as "law breakers".

I'm glad to hear of businesses not pushing e-tags.  I work at RMB and all the big companies I know of or have friends working for (including RMB) are running campaigns to help their staff get e-tags.  It disgusts me.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Koet on January 08, 2014, 09:09:19 am
Oh, and further to my point a few posts back - all companies are profit driven.  Bigger companies also need to keep shareholders happy.  And most big companies do that at the expense of their staff (retrenchments etc) and their clients (passing on costs).  This is a fact.
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 08, 2014, 09:21:56 am
And in any event - most companies will accept that they have a responsibilty to safety for eg and spend a lot on that - which directly affect their profits, but its considered the morally right thing to do, the same goes for environmental protection, social upliftment etc etc.  Why is etolls impossible to consider in the same light?

I think they are, I think they are all in the same corner. Most of the factors mentioned are legislation based, especially in SA. Environmental protection and social upliftment are all based on legislation that was passed and the companies had to conform to it or face penalties or worse, get excluded form tender processes.

Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: punisher on January 08, 2014, 10:12:51 am
Its funny to see how some would make such moral sacrifices , for profit , but it is still a sad fact pfffft

To say that they are morally obliged to get tagged is the same as saying it was a moral obligation to support aparthied
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 08, 2014, 10:49:30 am
To say that they are morally obliged to get tagged is the same as saying it was a moral obligation to support aparthied

Yes. That is exactly the same thing.  :imaposer:

Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Skeltonsc on January 08, 2014, 10:53:14 am
My case is that I'm on debt counselling and according to a court order I cannot make any debt, so how can I therefore incur debt from the etolls?

Am I then legally barred from driving on the freeways?
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Scooterbike on January 08, 2014, 11:04:57 am
Just imagine what the Boere will do if SANRAL start e-tag in the platteland...  :lol8:  those tractors will come in handy  :pot:
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: punisher on January 08, 2014, 11:06:44 am
To say that they are morally obliged to get tagged is the same as saying it was a moral obligation to support aparthied

Yes. That is exactly the same thing.  :imaposer:




Happy to enlighten you
Another example would be to say you support abortion , but not the death penalty for violent crimms
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: bud500 on January 08, 2014, 11:07:32 am

Also if I'm on Debt counselling how can I accumulate any more debt if the court has ordered that I cannot?  :deal:


The intention of the transaction between you and Sanral is not to sell credit, hence the credit is incidental and legal. So you qualify, congratulations...
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Goose on January 08, 2014, 11:08:48 am
It's time companies also stand up against this e-tolling.  Why is it that only the public should fight it?  This should be fought by public and business together.

This is my point as well.

Business leaders need to realise they live in this country as well and have a moral responsibility to contribute towards making the government accountable for its actions.  If one large corporation tells the government to take a hike it has a much larger effect than the CEO saying the same thing in his personal capacity!

Falling over them selves to comply with laws, while saying that they dont agree with them just because they dont want to piss the government is morally indefinsible IMO!


Spot on, business in SA have a history of bending backwards for government while farking their clients.  Business (especially big business) must grow some balls.


absolutely - growing balls however would take a long time.......... most have become wimpering puppies........

The issue to me still is that the Gov must realise THEY are not gods............  aren't they supposed to govern the country FOR the people.......... so if the PEOPLE say no - especially in such a massively opposed issue - they should listen?

I was nearly thrown out of the Head of Waterworks in Cape Town, the manager would not resolve a problem for me - and he asked me to leave his office - I told him in no uncertain terms, that he works for me - I pay his salary and he's a Civil Servant with emphasis on SERVANT.... the oke went ballistic and told me that he works for the Council who pays his salary (did not get it did he..?) and then to my surprise told me if I won't leave - he would... and he did  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 08, 2014, 11:13:22 am
To say that they are morally obliged to get tagged is the same as saying it was a moral obligation to support aparthied

Yes. That is exactly the same thing.  :imaposer:

Happy to enlighten you
Another example would be to say you support abortion , but not the death penalty for violent crimms

Not sure what crimms are, but I can see the debate has run it's course. Apples being substituted with oranges I'm afraid.




Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: punisher on January 08, 2014, 11:20:28 am
Criminals

Its all about moral compass stuff
Title: Re: Etags who has them, who doesn't and who actually pays
Post by: Mother on January 14, 2014, 09:13:12 pm
Im anti etag fuckemtags


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