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General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: nemodakar on February 11, 2014, 09:38:03 am

Title: E-Tolls
Post by: nemodakar on February 11, 2014, 09:38:03 am
Check out this mail I recieved. Please move if posted in the wrong place.

Whose freeway is it anyway?



By Mondli Magwaza

Friday, October 25, 2013

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The Propaganda is tricking you into believing that the streets are not yours, that it is by grace that you can enjoy cruising down the N1 (assuming it’s a Sunday night ). That you should be grateful of the little that they have done as it comes from the goodness of their heart. And I fear that you might be giving in.
No my brothers and sisters, these are our streets, we are the economy of the country, collectively we hold more power than the government.

A bit about me

I do not own an e-tag, Ok my name is Mondli Magwaza, a law abiding citizen and a married father of a 4 years old boy. I have no criminal record and I pay most of my traffic infringements. I have never even been to a court room, I only go to police stations to certify documents. But in the recent issue of e-tolls I feel that I am ready to be executed for what I believe, I’m ready drive into a road block and declare that I won’t buy an e-tag and get hanged on the spot.

Why I’m not getting tagged?

Simple, because the road belongs to me and I have already over paid for it. In the 2013’s budget speech R32.9 billion was allocated to SANRAL for road improvements which came from society taxes collected from me and you. A little more than R 2 comes off every litre of petrol I fill in my car; this produces over R 40 billion rand per annum in revenue and is specifically for infrastructure development also known as my roads. I also pay my vehicle licence fees annually from which the Gauteng transport department raises well over R 2 billion per annum.

Let’s roll back to a stone left unturned

In 2006 SANRAL undertook the so called Gauteng Freeway Upgrade Project estimated at R 6 billion, which 5 years later ended up costing me and you over R 20 billion. This equates to over R 1 million per kilometer, which by the way was actually a few centimeters resurfacing of existing roads. Competition Commission’s investigation proved that the society was over charged for all the work, but the investigation was called off just as it was close to pointing fingers on the individuals that benefited from these exaggerated costs

What’s e-Tolling

In 2009 Electronic Tolling Company was awarded R 10.1 billion tender to extract money from Gauteng motorists through e-Tolling, ETC by the way is 85% owned by a European company KAPSCH, which publicly announced that they will earn R670 million per annum from the e-toll system. Take a moment to imagine the amount of Schools, Clinics and of course Roads (hello) that could have been built with all this money, don’t forget to breathe.
The fuel levy mechanism on the other side goes straight to developing our roads, if this was really about the roads, the  Treasury would have added a mere 9c to the fuel levy from 2006, by now they would have accumulated more than R 17 billion, more than enough to keep our roads in an international standards that we are used to (The freeways are there, let’s give it to them), while maintaining SANRAL’s credit rating and keeping them focused on building roads and us, the tax payers, on working to build South Africa to what it could become.

This is not some national road in Malawi!

Our head of state with his reasoning poses a question “Why should the whole of South Africa pay for Gauteng roads” well Mr President, excuse me for thinking like an African but Gauteng roads are South African roads, The entire country benefits from us driving around them every day to work our butts off to be able to contribute 41% i.e. R 400 billion of South Africa’s social tax revenue, yet in return Gauteng only receives 10% from the national budget. It only makes sense Mr President that a country benefiting so much from Gauteng’s economic activities contributes in making sure that its citizens have the roads to continue doing their business.

I am an African

I then conclude that this is a harsh and painful “thank you” the ruling party is giving to its voters for affording it the majority that it enjoys in parliament.
I see my beloved South Africa as a golden goose, with a potential of laying unlimited golden eggs for the benefit of us and generations to come, but greedy and impertinent mechanisms are being applied to reach into its guts and pull the egg from it leading it to a slow painful death.
The Propaganda is tricking you into believing that the streets are not yours. I refuse to be naïve.



I thank you

 

Title: E-Tolls
Post by: Draadwerk on July 08, 2014, 02:15:59 pm
01 July 2014

What GFIP phase II might mean

June was a bad public relations month for road agency SANRAL. The Advertising Standards Authority announced that no less than three complaints against SANRAL's advertising had been upheld and that the adverts should be withdrawn, and then there was a nasty tangle in the Western Cape over people living illegally on SANRAL land who were evicted in controversial circumstances.
And then SANRAL vehicles started to appear at roadblocks around Gauteng. This unleashed yet another wave of negative sentiment from motorists, angered over what they saw as heavy-handedness. We don't think the negative news will stop any time soon, because SANRAL's hand will surely be forced into prosecuting e-toll non-payers – it is the only avenue left to them, since the information released in answer to Parliamentary questions clearly shows that motorists are not paying. What hangs in the balance is whether even a successful prosecution will have the desired effect. Will it persuade enough additional motorists to pay? Or will it inflame negative sentiment further? The AA has long held that the e-tolling system was incorrectly planned and launched, and the widespread view is that it is not a system the public wants or supports. To proceed with prosecutions over this unpopular system could easily backfire and we feel that the correct way to handle the situation is to simply admit defeat and revert to more cost-effective and uncontroversial ways of funding roads. This decision should be taken now, because the original map of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project shows even more toll roads are planned. These are for GFIP Phase 2 and with the public's current mood over e-tolling, it's doubtful any new tolls will be received positively. Incoming Gauteng premier, David Makhura appeared to recognise this in his State of the Province speech in the last week of June. But if the 'review panel' he plans to set up to examine e-tolls doesn't finally take account of the wishes of Gauteng residents (and their overwhelming opposition to e-tolls), there will be bad news on the horizon.

For, if GFIP Phase 2 goes ahead as planned in its original format, it is likely the N14 will be tolled from Krugersdorp to its intersection with the N1 possibly all the way into Pretoria.. New-build toll highways are also planned, the PWV5 outer Johannesburg ring road and the PWV9 north-south corridor which will parallel the current M1 to its West. What's not clear is whether they will replace roads which currently exist on those alignments, namely Olifantsfontein Road in the case of the PWV5 and William Nicol Road in the case of the PWV9. If replacement is what is envisaged, not only will mobility within Gauteng be further restricted to toll roads, but existing alternatives which are used by tens of thousands of people on a daily basis will be removed.

Before all this happens, SANRAL will have to consult, but it's their version of consultation which has us worried. Only 27 responses were received by SANRAL in 2007 in respect of the original Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project, one of which was from the AA. This low response rate shows that the public didn't realise what was on the horizon, but SANRAL nonetheless bulldozed ahead. It was only in 2011, when the actual toll fees were announced, that a massive public outcry forced SANRAL to backtrack, and it was then made clear that consultation is not taken as valid if the public weren't clearly told what they were being asked to agree to. A 'steering committee' (consisting solely of people in government and SANRAL) announced reduced toll fees, and when that didn't calm the public temperament, a series of after-the-fact public consultation meetings were held at which the public again rejected e-tolling of Gauteng's highways. Over 12 000 public submissions were received when SANRAL proposed the e-tolling regulations – these submissions have not been released for public scrutiny, but we'd be prepared to wager they were largely opposed. This situation was a mirror image of SANRAL's shambolic 'consultation' process years earlier when it proclaimed the N4 to Witbank as a toll road. The process was later declared invalid in court, but SANRAL continues to be able to extract tolls from motorists travelling on the N4 due to a legal technicality involving traffic signs at the toll gates.

To date, SANRAL has only consulted to satisfy the letter of the law rather than to discover the wishes of the people and this was also evident in the interdict granted against them in the Cape Winelands toll project – the consultation was inadequate and SANRAL is now attempting to prevent the very documents which they say justify their case from being released. And we believe this is yet again going to be the pattern if SANRAL attempts to implement GFIP Phase II as a toll project. The consultation process will likely be perfunctory, the Minister of Transport will provide the rubber stamp, and the public will be up in arms at losing yet more of Gauteng's arterials to an expensive and unpopular system, especially since Gauteng's taxpayers already contribute more than half of the total personal income tax collected by SARS in South Africa

But we do believe there is a way to counter this scenario and that is, very simply, for each and every AA Member to object when the time comes. SANRAL can and did ignore 27 objectors initially. It also ignored 52 000 signatories to an AA petition objecting to the tolls handed to the Ministers of Finance and Transport in 2011. But if it ignores hundreds of thousands of objections from AA Members, we will have the final proof that government is committed to tolling at all costs despite its known inefficiencies versus, say, the fuel levy or general taxation. And at that point, the question will be: why?
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: KiLRoy on July 08, 2014, 03:25:11 pm
Quote
In 2006 SANRAL undertook the so called Gauteng Freeway Upgrade Project estimated at R 6 billion, which 5 years later ended up costing me and you over R 20 billion. This equates to over R 1 million per kilometer, which by the way was actually a few centimeters resurfacing of existing roads

I think their maths suck

Jeez, i hate it when people want to make a serious point while incapable of making elementary maths - epic fail.  They must go and read Billions and Billions.

One way to better understand large numbers is to compare the heights of stacks of varying numbers of dollar bills. The thickness of a single one dollar bills measures .0043 inches or .0000000679 miles.

The height of a stack of 100 one dollar bills measures .43 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000 one dollar bills measures 4.3 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000 one dollar bills measures 4,300 inches or 358 feet – about the height of a 30 to 35 story building.

The height of a stack of 100,000,000 (one hundred million) one dollar bills measures 35,851 feet or 6.79 miles. This would reach from the earth’s surface to the approximate altitude at which commercial jetliners fly.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000,000 (one billion) one dollar bills measures 358,510 feet or 67.9 miles. This would reachblue sky, moon, clouds from the earth’s surface into the lower portion of the troposphere – one of the major outer layers of earth’s atmosphere.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: silvrav on July 08, 2014, 03:30:29 pm
Quote
In 2006 SANRAL undertook the so called Gauteng Freeway Upgrade Project estimated at R 6 billion, which 5 years later ended up costing me and you over R 20 billion. This equates to over R 1 million per kilometer, which by the way was actually a few centimeters resurfacing of existing roads

I think their maths suck

Jeez, i hate it when people want to make a serious point while incapable of making elementary maths - epic fail.  They must go and read Billions and Billions.

One way to better understand large numbers is to compare the heights of stacks of varying numbers of dollar bills. The thickness of a single one dollar bills measures .0043 inches or .0000000679 miles.

The height of a stack of 100 one dollar bills measures .43 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000 one dollar bills measures 4.3 inches.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000 one dollar bills measures 4,300 inches or 358 feet – about the height of a 30 to 35 story building.

The height of a stack of 100,000,000 (one hundred million) one dollar bills measures 35,851 feet or 6.79 miles. This would reach from the earth’s surface to the approximate altitude at which commercial jetliners fly.

The height of a stack of 1,000,000,000 (one billion) one dollar bills measures 358,510 feet or 67.9 miles. This would reachblue sky, moon, clouds from the earth’s surface into the lower portion of the troposphere – one of the major outer layers of earth’s atmosphere.


Yip....or simply put for every 000 in BIG NUMBER, there is a new acronym

1 - one
1,000 thousand
1,000,000 million
1,000,000,000 billion
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: mtbbiker on October 01, 2015, 06:00:57 pm
So how many dogs are not getting their License renewals notices? I have 2 that expired yesterday. Is this Sapo's fault or is there some bullying going on - as I believe the bill that will allow the licencing authorities to refuse your disk still needs to be approved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on October 01, 2015, 06:32:56 pm
So how many dogs are not getting their License renewals notices? I have 2 that expired yesterday. Is this Sapo's fault or is there some bullying going on - as I believe the bill that will allow the licencing authorities to refuse your disk still needs to be approved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

has nothing to do with e-tolls - simply govt dept incompetence

just take your reg papers and ID to post office and they'll renew
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: tgg on October 01, 2015, 07:17:20 pm
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: mtbbiker on October 01, 2015, 07:45:33 pm
So how many dogs are not getting their License renewals notices? I have 2 that expired yesterday. Is this Sapo's fault or is there some bullying going on - as I believe the bill that will allow the licencing authorities to refuse your disk still needs to be approved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

has nothing to do with e-tolls - simply govt dept incompetence

just take your reg papers and ID to post office and they'll renew
I'll give it a try, and report back
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on October 01, 2015, 07:47:25 pm
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council

yes, I've done that for my vehicles for the past probably 4 years, as these dumb fucks don't send me my renewals or send them too late :thumleft:

edit: not sure if all post offices have these printers though.......  ???
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: subie on October 01, 2015, 08:01:11 pm
Do mine at Mall of Reds post office every year.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Cracker on October 01, 2015, 10:16:52 pm
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council

Come on WP - we been doing this for years here  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Xchallenge on October 02, 2015, 07:11:02 am
Yes, you can pay at the post office:
Provided...

1.) You have cash
2.) You have your license renewal form received in the post.
3.) If you didnt receive your renewal, you'll have to have your eNatis document handy to fill out a moerse long form
4.) Take your ID along.
5.) Hope and pray they are not "offline"
6.) That someone remembered to load their printers with paper
7.) Make sure you dont go during your lunch hour, because sometimes they decide to go on lunch randomly after you have been queing for an hour.
8.) Dont air your frustration, because they WILL find a reason to reject your renewal.
9.) If you are doing it for someone else, you need a letter written by them, mentioning both your ID numbers and a copy of their ID and your original.
10.) Insert more bureaucracy / red tape here that I might have left out
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Kloes on October 02, 2015, 07:27:19 am
Was told at PO that they do not renew licenses anymore, have to go to licensing department.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Xchallenge on October 02, 2015, 07:53:35 am
FML...

In that case, screw it, Im not renewing my license disk anymore.
I have no numberplate on my bike. I will never pay my etolls, and now, I may just stop supporting them by buying an expensive piece of round paper.

I'd rather save the money and invest in Photoshop.

 :imaposer:

Was told at PO that they do not renew licenses anymore, have to go to licensing department.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on October 02, 2015, 08:11:19 am
Careful there Mr XC.
No plate with no disc and a cop in a bad mood might get your bike impounded.

One page form and the post office helped me quick a few months ago.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: silvrav on October 02, 2015, 08:18:26 am
Pay R50 for my local auntie and she sorts out my renewals for me.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Xchallenge on October 02, 2015, 08:26:19 am
If they can catch me! Ha ha.

Just kidding about the disk, but it upsets me that we can be fined for an expired disk because the post office can't send out the renewal forms in time.

What that means is they are wasting millions of tabs on redundant pieces of paper because by the time you receive it, we generally have already updated and paid it.

Careful there Mr XC.
No plate with no disc and a cop in a bad mood might get your bike impounded.

One page form and the post office helped me quick a few months ago.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: silvrav on October 02, 2015, 08:47:35 am
If they can catch me! Ha ha.

Just kidding about the disk, but it upsets me that we can be fined for an expired disk because the post office can't send out the renewal forms in time.

What that means is they are wasting millions of tabs on redundant pieces of paper because by the time you receive it, we generally have already updated and paid it.

Careful there Mr XC.
No plate with no disc and a cop in a bad mood might get your bike impounded.

One page form and the post office helped me quick a few months ago.

All these reminders can be done electronically but then the current back pockets wont get filled.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: TheBear on October 02, 2015, 09:31:51 am
can you renew at the post office, we got to go to the local council

We like to call it ... civilisation.  Another 300 years or so and you Capeys will also be able to!   :ricky:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: TheBear on October 02, 2015, 09:33:19 am
Just kidding about the disk, but it upsets me that we can be fined for an expired disk because the post office can't send out the renewal forms in time.

Can't blame the post office for our bad memories!   :pot:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Dwerg on October 02, 2015, 09:47:44 am
Was told at PO that they do not renew licenses anymore, have to go to licensing department.

I renewed two licenses at my local PO last week
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Xchallenge on October 02, 2015, 09:49:31 am
I agree.

The same could be done with etoll invoices. (Not that I will pay them ever, but imagine how many zillions they could save if hey emailed them?)

But as you say, the Printers, Admin Clerks, and everyone involved in the Tenders wouldnt have a job....or a mansion with a fire pool.



If they can catch me! Ha ha.

Just kidding about the disk, but it upsets me that we can be fined for an expired disk because the post office can't send out the renewal forms in time.

What that means is they are wasting millions of tabs on redundant pieces of paper because by the time you receive it, we generally have already updated and paid it.

Careful there Mr XC.
No plate with no disc and a cop in a bad mood might get your bike impounded.

One page form and the post office helped me quick a few months ago.

All these reminders can be done electronically but then the current back pockets wont get filled.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: punisher on October 02, 2015, 10:03:51 am
there is absolutely no valid reasoning behind having to "renew" licensing

just another backward money grabbing scheme , serves no purpose but to steal more money
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Xchallenge on October 02, 2015, 10:13:11 am
I agree, we have paid for it once, why pay again.

Im happy to pay it every year, provided I dont have to pay TAX, or a Fuel Levy, or VAT etc etc.

there is absolutely no valid reasoning behind having to "renew" licensing

just another backward money grabbing scheme , serves no purpose but to steal more money

Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on October 02, 2015, 02:32:30 pm
vehicle licence fees seem to have shot up over the years - just another tax..... maybe the next thing we should stop paying?

anybody have any history by how much a specific vehicle type has increased over the years in Gauteng?
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: mtbbiker on October 02, 2015, 03:52:32 pm
Pay R50 for my local auntie and she sorts out my renewals for me.  :biggrin:
Where's this auntie - could safe me a lot of time  ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Xchallenge on October 02, 2015, 03:53:46 pm
This auntie's name is "Drake Livingston"

 :imaposer:

Pay R50 for my local auntie and she sorts out my renewals for me.  :biggrin:
Where's this auntie - could safe me a lot of time  ;)
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: dirtyXT on February 26, 2018, 07:28:47 pm
loving David makhura. he was one of the very few if only ANC  member to take stand against Jacob and the ANC... he is going to reap the rewards

Cape Town - Advocacy group the Organisation Undoing Tax Abuse (OUTA) has welcomed Gauteng Premier David Makhura's statement during his State of the Province Address on Monday that e-tolls have not worked.  

As News24 reported earlier, Makhura told the Gauteng legislature that it was “loud and clear for all to see that e-tolls have not worked”.

The Premier said that he would be meeting President Cyril Ramaphosa to devise an alternative funding model.

OUTA, which has long opposed e-tolling, said it agreed with the Premier’s call for “a new and more equitable funding model to expand Gauteng’s road network and public transport system”.

“E-tolls have failed and have added to the cost of living for many motorists and public transport users,” it said. 

It noted that according to the South African National Roads Agency's (SANRAL) 2017 Annual Report, the compliance rate for e-toll users was just 29%. 

“OUTA will support all initiatives to get this scheme halted,” it said. 

Negative impact 

Rudie Heyneke, OUTA’s portfolio manager for transport, said: “OUTA is preparing a submission for the Minister of Transport and the President and will engage with the executive to show the negative impact e-tolls have had on the public and on the SANRAL budget and to propose alternative funding models.”

“The collection costs and litigation costs are too high when measured against the revenue generated by e-tolls,” he added

Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on February 26, 2018, 07:46:20 pm
took them nearly 5 years to realise that........ I decided from day 1.. fukkem!
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: dirtyXT on February 26, 2018, 08:23:18 pm
you an me both! good to see my outa contribution going to good use!
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on February 26, 2018, 08:32:15 pm
you an me both! good to see my outa contribution going to good use!

I'm just concerned that many may now stop supporting OUTA, seeing that they are still fighting the good fight on many fronts..... but, if all goes well, it will be good if we don't need OUTA any more
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 26, 2018, 08:36:01 pm
Quote
“loud and clear for all to see that e-tolls have not worked”

On the one hand you hear feedback like that but then on the other hand you hear some people are being summonsed for non payment of e-toll. ???
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on February 26, 2018, 08:42:19 pm
Quote
“loud and clear for all to see that e-tolls have not worked”

On the one hand you hear feedback like that but then on the other hand you hear some people are being summonsed for non payment of e-toll. ???

I have gotten SMS threats periodically, but ignore the lot - I think it's just a bunch of companies contracted to try and get some money from idiots - that should soon stop.... and if it doesn't, who cares
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 26, 2018, 08:54:30 pm
Not talking about the normal threats they send out.
Seen photos of proper legal documents on Facebook BAT site.  Not heard anything further though.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on February 26, 2018, 09:02:07 pm
Not talking about the normal threats they send out.
Seen photos of proper legal documents on Facebook BAT site.  Not heard anything further though.

saw that as well, but nothing more......doubt the authenticity ........ I'm used to be in "ignore mode" with e-tolls - would have actually liked to appear in court and ask them for their evidence of every 'transaction'
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 26, 2018, 09:07:03 pm
Here it is, found it: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155818601301999&set=gm.1316793675087773&type=3&theater

Seems it was a scam vs a real summons

(https://scontent-jnb1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27750290_10155818601301999_7866803562642585447_n.jpg?oh=c4b65515aed0329cb8cb8739bfeaad3f&oe=5B4551F3)  (https://scontent-jnb1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27972646_2089759221037470_4761292834815234583_n.jpg?oh=4ca8bfb160fdf844ec6c380f144bbc10&oe=5B489E85)
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: punisher on February 27, 2018, 12:06:29 pm
its all a scam

just ignore
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Herklaas on February 27, 2018, 12:18:43 pm
 :sip: On the 13th January I was in the Gauteng area visiting family, when I got back in Melkbos I received an account that I owe E-tol R3, 99. I wonder how much the postage cost them for the postage. I did stop at about 3 or 4 toll gates where I had to pay, one was something like R58.00 something like that.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: dirtyXT on February 28, 2018, 06:12:32 pm
bladdy  con artists. you almost feel sorry for them. clearly talented
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: wiledog_X on October 17, 2018, 01:49:38 pm
And now SANRAL is making serious threats again.....  let them come....  :dousing:

https://www.outa.co.za/sanrals-e-toll-threats-touch-reality/

"For SANRAL to suggest that motorists’ vehicle licenses will be withheld because of  e-toll debt, is ludicrous and illegal. Should they attempt to go down this road, OUTA will engage with its legal advisors and the public to challenge these developments.  The impact of using coercive tactics such as blocking vehicle relicensing or vehicle sales in order to force the payment of e-tolls, will have negative unintended consequences. It will drag the already cash-strapped municipalities into the e-toll fight. It will impact negatively on local government’s revenue streams and policing processes.

In addition to this, SANRAL has hinted at farfetched plans to have SARS act as their collection agents. This will be extremely difficult for them to do both legally and practically, adding further complexity to SARS’s collection woes. This is the last thing that SARS needs on their hands and will add significant legal challenges for them to do so.

“We find it remarkable that SANRAL even mentions the threat of dragging insurance companies into their fight, by suggesting that insurance companies should not insure vehicles with outstanding e-toll bills,” says Wayne Duvenage, OUTA’s CEO.  “This will be virtually impossible to introduce and OUTA will challenge this legally as well as wage a consumer movement to boycott insurance companies who seek to introduce such ludicrous practices and policies into their contracts with motorists.”  When the issue of the impact of unpaid e-tolls and unlicensed vehicles on vehicle insurance claims was raised several years ago, OUTA engaged with insurance companies on this matter and confirmed that these issues do not have any negative impact or consequences on motorists vehicle insurance conditions.”
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: KiLRoy on October 17, 2018, 05:00:56 pm
Farking clowns, i wonder who is paying for the road upgrades for the past 2/3 odd years?
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on October 17, 2018, 08:35:35 pm
they can suck the same middle finger I've given them for the past 5 years - f u c k e m!
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: punisher on October 18, 2018, 05:47:24 pm
fukkem ... and the people who vote for their ilk in goverment
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: JC on October 18, 2018, 05:55:10 pm
daai lot is gesuip... ek koop 'n kar in Gauteng en nou stuur hulle vir my e-toll rekenings vir voordat ek die kar gekoop het en nadat die kar al in die Kaap is.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: wiledog_X on August 26, 2019, 01:41:39 pm
So there it is: Motorists will be fined for not paying e-tolls, under the new Aarto Bill. This is the ONLY reason this Aarto BS was implemented....  And I WILL STILL NOT PAY!  :dousing:

https://www.da.org.za/2019/08/motorists-will-be-fined-for-not-paying-e-tolls-under-aarto
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on August 26, 2019, 08:55:33 pm
TWO WORDS....... FUCK THEM!
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 27, 2019, 01:26:14 pm
Resistance is futile.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 27, 2019, 01:32:58 pm
Resistance is futile.

Well I disagree....but the fuck them attitude will just escalate the issue and we’ll govt will probably win in the end.

I have always said that big business in za has no idea of sustainability and long term profitability. As crime and corruption spirals ppl leave making the resource pool smaller and more expensive, this is no good for business.

What ppl in ZA should do is explore legal avenues to stop this. Refuse to use the highways, ppl get to work late, business is impacted, business lobbies government and government change tack.

What if everyone in ZA were to resign on the same day?

Problem is ppl ant got skin in the game.....easy enough to sound off but time to actually do something
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: chicco on August 27, 2019, 01:46:13 pm
So there it is: Motorists will be fined for not paying e-tolls, under the new Aarto Bill. This is the ONLY reason this Aarto BS was implemented....  And I WILL STILL NOT PAY!  :dousing:

https://www.da.org.za/2019/08/motorists-will-be-fined-for-not-paying-e-tolls-under-aarto

The problem is if you dont pay, fine, demerit points, licence suspended, renewal blocked, no licence, no insurance or loan for new car, criminal record, outstanding fines, arrest next to the road.....the list goes on....most people will rather just pay.....
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: mox on August 27, 2019, 02:33:49 pm
........ Or we will see the biggest tax revolt and certain institutions will collapse. Stand fast  :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on August 27, 2019, 02:53:29 pm
........ Or we will see the biggest tax revolt and certain institutions will collapse. Stand fast  :thumleft:

Yeah I doubt that

if you look at human behavior and how it works at the moment.. if you get a fine do you pay it? 100% willing to bet  you don't. call it a revolt or just call it a fuck you attitude, no matter, most people dont pay their fines. If you go to renew your licence and they tell you that you have R2500 in outstanding fines and you must pay 1st before they will licence your vehicle.. 100% bet you swipe your card

Want to sell your car.. pay.. want to renew your licence.. pay

its a clever move from them and its one I think will work

Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: mox on August 27, 2019, 03:01:22 pm
As I said, stand fast but I hear you. South Africans as a collective are actually weak.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 27, 2019, 03:44:20 pm
........ Or we will see the biggest tax revolt and certain institutions will collapse. Stand fast  :thumleft:

Yeah I doubt that

if you look at human behavior and how it works at the moment.. if you get a fine do you pay it? 100% willing to bet  you don't. call it a revolt or just call it a fuck you attitude, no matter, most people dont pay their fines. If you go to renew your licence and they tell you that you have R2500 in outstanding fines and you must pay 1st before they will licence your vehicle.. 100% bet you swipe your card

Want to sell your car.. pay.. want to renew your licence.. pay

its a clever move from them and its one I think will work

Certainly not a clever move, even if people do pay, more dishonesty will be forced upon us. Instead it is an awfully short-sighted move, typical of the post 1994 rulers.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on August 29, 2019, 08:06:46 pm
As I said, stand fast but I hear you. South Africans as a collective are actually weak.

for sure! they talk BIG around the braai, but squirm and pay up at the slightest threat - no balls! 


BUT, there seem to be more and more.... even ou tannies...... that have decided FUCK THIS SHIT!
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: chicco on August 29, 2019, 09:04:51 pm
I've been wondering about something, I never received aN e toll account so never had the opportunity not to pay one. If my vehicle is registered in another province do they post the bill to you? I've changed my postal address to my residential address 3 years ago and havent received a notification or fine since I changed from postal to residential. There is no longer residential deliveries done in my neighbourhood and I've also noticed the address on the system still show my postal; address. I've even completed the special change of address document and indicate the metode of postal delivery on licence renewal as residential but still don't receive anything. What must I do to ensure I get a e toll account when Im traveling to JHB next month with my car?
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Rascal on August 29, 2019, 09:18:45 pm
What a FKUP. Theire admin is so flawed its a joke. I received e toll bills in cape town for a vehicle running in joburg with a plate number that coincides with my 3 digit plate. Except   they have five digits. Our plates just starts the same. So who will loose points. Me or him. Just one examples of thousands more. Screw them.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 30, 2019, 05:01:37 pm
Sanral just got a ratings upgrade.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: wiledog_X on October 03, 2019, 11:48:18 am
So the ANC is going ahead with e-tolls. All Gauteng residents better buckle up for a big fight coming.   :xxbah:

Premier David Makhura going back on his word to abolish e-toll completely
 
Media release by:
Adv. Anton Alberts
FF Plus national chairperson and MPL: Gauteng Legislature
1 October 2019
 
During a question and answer session in the Gauteng Legislature, the Gauteng Premier, David Makhura, indicated in his response to a question by the FF Plus that the Gauteng ANC's final position on the e-toll issue is that SANRAL's debt must be paid. The FF Plus considers this position disgraceful seeing as the Gauteng ANC has always stated that it is totally opposed to e-toll.
 
Now, however, is seems that during recent negotiations with the national ANC government, the Gauteng ANC decided that certain road users, particularly large companies, must keep on paying e-toll.
 The Premier gave this response after Adv Anton Alberts, FF Plus chairperson and leader in the Gauteng Legislature, confronted him because in the runup to the 2019 general elections, they repeatedly made it clear that they are totally opposed to e-toll. The Gauteng ANC even marched to the Union Buildings in protest against e-toll and the national ANC government.
 
Adv Alberts also expressed to the Premier that if the ANC in Gauteng really is serious about abolishing e-toll, they must declare a formal dispute with the national government in terms of the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act and exhaust the remedies contained therein.
 
Should all the remedies be exhausted without success, the provincial ANC government must take the national government to court.
 The Premier merely responded by saying that there exists no dispute between the provincial and national governments regarding e-toll and his reaction reinforces the suspicion that Premier Makhura and his ANC team capitulated.
 
The FF Plus is, furthermore, concerned as it seems that large business will be sacrificed on the altar to pay off the e-toll debt while these companies are already highly taxed. This so-called solution will surely lead to more job losses as businesses try to absorb the e-toll costs. Clearly the ANC cannot be trusted as regards the e-toll issue. The FF Plus will continue to fight to have e-toll abolished completely.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on October 03, 2019, 12:25:48 pm
guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when the 1st non-payer has his day in court?
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: punisher on October 03, 2019, 05:39:19 pm
why isnt the gauteng cANCer charged with fraud ???  for making falls election statements
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: silvrav on October 04, 2019, 03:42:04 am
When the chinese wants their money they dont take no for an answer....dividents must be paid
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: TheBear on October 04, 2019, 12:45:07 pm
why isnt the gauteng cANCer charged with fraud ???  for making falls election statements

 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

If that happened every politician who ever lived will be in jail!

I understand the brain dead, but everyone else would have known the Gauteng Government does not have any control over the National Roads and National Government. 
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: punisher on October 04, 2019, 06:51:46 pm
why isnt the gauteng cANCer charged with fraud ???  for making falls election statements

 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

If that happened every politician who ever lived will be in jail!

I understand the brain dead, but everyone else would have known the Gauteng Government does not have any control over the National Roads and National Government.

yes yes we know that , but they should still be charged with electoral fraud
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: KiLRoy on October 05, 2019, 06:40:19 am
Im glad they are going after business

These softcocks must make a stand too.  Grow some balls business and do what is right instead of passing this cost on to us the clients.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Cracker on October 05, 2019, 09:13:45 am
I see no harm in letting those who already pay for e-tolls to carry on paying for them.

This cost has already been passed on to all of us and we are still alive and kicking. If they came and took the R100k I owe them, I'd be out on the street.

Thinking aloud here but isn't there some clever accounting that could put that outstanding debt (never to be paid) into the books, thereby giving us an additional tax break?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: silvrav on October 06, 2019, 10:51:58 am
Im glad they are going after business

These softcocks must make a stand too.  Grow some balls business and do what is right instead of passing this cost on to us the clients.

Unfortunately I doubt it. Shoprite checkers already had the e tags for their entire fleet when I was working there back in 2013/2014. Guess they still going strong
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Oshkosh on October 06, 2019, 06:33:15 pm
I bought my E-Tag when the Bakwena highway opened as I was doing contract work in Temba back in the day.
Then came the e-tolls around Joburg & surrounds so we got a contract in Benoni so as not to fall fowl with the A-holes i thought to just take out a temp account not realising they linked the accounts so now I am stuck!!
Believe me I hate the Joburg Gantry's but when it come to all the other toll gates what a pleasure just sailing through when the paying plebs sit there for hours.   :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: KiLRoy on October 07, 2019, 06:42:57 am
You comfort now validates this injustice. Not cool
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: chicco on October 07, 2019, 07:22:31 am
Im in Jhb next week for work, driving up with my own car from KZN, Cant wait for my very first e toll that I wont pay.....I will then have officially joined the struggle.... :3some:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Cracker on October 07, 2019, 02:20:18 pm
As far as I recall, out-of-towners are exempt anyway ...................... sorry :'(
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: chicco on October 07, 2019, 03:48:00 pm
As far as I recall, out-of-towners are exempt anyway ...................... sorry :'(

But then there is mos a easy way not to pay, register all your cars out of the province on a family members address?
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: FrancoisTz on October 07, 2019, 03:54:37 pm
As far as I recall, out-of-towners are exempt anyway ...................... sorry :'(

But then there is mos a easy way not to pay, register all your cars out of the province on a family members address?
Unfortunately not exempt, I have two cars and three bikes registered in Limpopo and all but the ones without a plate receive regular e-toll accounts. Not sure why they sent it becasue it does not get paid.
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Cracker on October 07, 2019, 05:15:17 pm
As far as I recall, out-of-towners are exempt anyway ...................... sorry :'(

But then there is mos a easy way not to pay, register all your cars out of the province on a family members address?

The easiest way is the way we're doing it now .................... and it seems I was wrong, you're allowed to join us ....................... welcome.  :biggrin: :thumleft:
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: KiLRoy on October 07, 2019, 07:08:18 pm
Imo this latest demerit scheme is just to make it legal to withhold license renewals for outstanding etolls.  That us what needs our focus and fights...
Title: Re: E-Tolls
Post by: Bundu on October 07, 2019, 07:36:05 pm
Imo this latest demerit scheme is just to make it legal to withhold license renewals for outstanding etolls.  That us what needs our focus and fights...

if enough of us can stand together (like the okes in Hong Kong), we'll just be driving without licences soon, until govt realises we are the people (and not fuck the people)