Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Humfree on February 14, 2014, 08:15:28 am

Title: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Humfree on February 14, 2014, 08:15:28 am
Just heard on 702 that a biker has been shot dead in a road rage incident on Madibongwe road in Randburg! Apparently the traffic was slow and the biker and motorist had some kind of argument and the biker stopped and got off his bike and went to talk to the guy - and now I am not 100% sure if the biker pulled a gun first but apparently he walked back to his bike and the motorist shot him twice. ( My facts are here say from the radio and I am sure that news story's will surface soon with the proper facts...)

Wow man guy's be careful out there...
Title: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 08:21:10 am
my swaer just phoned to see if i'm still alive.
which i still am (thanks for all your concern)
apparently biker got off and walked over to a car with his gun out.
car driver shot first.
goes to show,  that if you look for shit,  it is easy to find...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: fredda on February 14, 2014, 08:24:25 am
My wife just phoned to tell me about it. I could not believe my ears!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gérrard on February 14, 2014, 08:25:10 am
When you are on a bike (especially) DO NOT respond.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Butch on February 14, 2014, 08:26:02 am
Only in GP  :P
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 14, 2014, 08:29:56 am
Nasty
https://twitter.com/0845471052/status/434206392153407489/photo/1/large

I avoid getting into tiffs over road rage for that reason specifically, too many trigger happy loonies out there
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 08:32:52 am
i just heard on the news that the car driver was also wounded.
appears like a bit of an 'old wild west' shoot out...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BFG on February 14, 2014, 08:37:46 am
Sh!t, that's bloody hectic.
RIP rider.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dusty Rusty on February 14, 2014, 08:40:32 am
 :o

Hectic!

Wat het van die "shooter" geraak?

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dwerg on February 14, 2014, 08:43:16 am
Motorist is badly wounded and was taken to hospital
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: bud500 on February 14, 2014, 08:44:23 am
Scene is 1km from my office. Not Boundary rd though, rather the next road as you go towards the N1. Malibongwe and surrounding roads are screwed with traffic.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 08:44:24 am
hectic. hope you he goes to prison for a long time. idiots get guns and think they in the movies. probably not the best idea to approach someone im sure in a fit of anger. condolences. sad waste of life.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: arrowfeather on February 14, 2014, 08:44:39 am
vokkit dis bad
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 08:46:34 am
Motorist is badly wounded and was taken to hospital
who shot who then? i understood the biker got shot?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Jag man on February 14, 2014, 08:47:05 am
Not worth a good life this farking road rage.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dwerg on February 14, 2014, 08:47:32 am
Motorist is badly wounded and was taken to hospital
who shot who then? i understood the biker got shot?

Biker wounded the motorist, motorist fired back. That's what I can pick up from twitter
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Orangeswifty on February 14, 2014, 08:47:51 am
Wild Wild West :biggrin:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mooi Rooi on February 14, 2014, 08:47:53 am
WTF

 ??? ???
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: kwassi on February 14, 2014, 08:48:24 am
Dit is wat daai twitter feed se wat Mikie gepost het

car driver slightly injured. In ambulance on route hospital under police guard.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 08:48:33 am
hectic. cowboys.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: subie on February 14, 2014, 08:52:51 am
When you are on a bike (especially) DO NOT respond.


+1000   :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Chili Dog on February 14, 2014, 08:54:15 am
Fark!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 14, 2014, 08:55:55 am
hectic. hope you he goes to prison for a long time. idiots get guns and think they in the movies. probably not the best idea to approach someone im sure in a fit of anger. condolences. sad waste of life.

WTF dirtyXT ???

Biker stops - gets of his bike , walks to car with gun in hand. This sounds like the biker was the agressor and the cager protected himself.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Rufus115 on February 14, 2014, 08:56:19 am
Yip heard it on the traffic report

http://ewn.co.za/2014/02/14/Motorcyclist-shot-dead-in-road-rage-incident (http://ewn.co.za/2014/02/14/Motorcyclist-shot-dead-in-road-rage-incident)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mooi Rooi on February 14, 2014, 08:58:05 am
WTF

 ??? ???
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Operator on February 14, 2014, 08:58:30 am
Suddenly it does not make a lot of sense to go around kicking and breaking side mirrors of vehicles in traffic...........
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 08:59:15 am
hectic. hope you he goes to prison for a long time. idiots get guns and think they in the movies. probably not the best idea to approach someone im sure in a fit of anger. condolences. sad waste of life.

WTF dirtyXT ???

Biker stops - gets of his bike , walks to car with gun in hand. This sounds like the biker was the agressor and the cager protected himself.

er ok. then he should go to prison... or because he rides a bike he shouldn't?  i dont understand your WTF? explain please?
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 08:59:28 am
Suddenly it does not make a lot of sense to go around kicking and breaking side mirrors of vehicles in traffic...........

well,  i hope you stop that shit immediately.
someone could get hurt.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 14, 2014, 09:00:27 am
hectic. hope you he goes to prison for a long time. idiots get guns and think they in the movies. probably not the best idea to approach someone im sure in a fit of anger. condolences. sad waste of life.

WTF dirtyXT ???

Biker stops - gets of his bike , walks to car with gun in hand. This sounds like the biker was the agressor and the cager protected himself.

er ok. then he should go to prison... or because he rides a bike he shouldn't?  i dont understand your WTF? explain please?

Who do you want to go to prison  ? The biker ? He can not. He is dead.
The cager ? - why - he acted in self defense .
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lunatic on February 14, 2014, 09:00:36 am
JOHANNESBURG – The Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department (JMPD) has confirmed a motorcyclist has been shot dead in what appears to have been a road-rage incident in North Riding this morning.

The police’s Edna Mamonyane says the motorcyclist confronted the driver of a car on the corner of Malibongwe Drive and Boundary Road at around 7am.

She confirmed both men were armed.

“The driver of the vehicle shot the motorcyclist and the motorcyclist died on the scene. Police and the JMPD are busy on the scene now.”

Paramedics on the scene say the driver was also wounded and rushed to hospital in a serious condition.

It’s unclear what the argument was about, but this will form part of the police's investigation.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:03:36 am
hectic. hope you he goes to prison for a long time. idiots get guns and think they in the movies. probably not the best idea to approach someone im sure in a fit of anger. condolences. sad waste of life.

WTF dirtyXT ???

Biker stops - gets of his bike , walks to car with gun in hand. This sounds like the biker was the agressor and the cager protected himself.

er ok. then he should go to prison... or because he rides a bike he shouldn't?  i dont understand your WTF? explain please?

Who do you want to go to prison  ? The biker ? He can not. He is dead.
The cager ? - why - he acted in self defense .

oh ok. didn't know he was dead. im sure no one is as innocent as it appears right now. someone is dead someone shot someone else. what scenario is there that justifies someone shooting someone else?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 09:04:56 am
oh ok. didn't know he was dead. im sure no one is as innocent as it appears right now. someone is dead someone shot someone else. what scenario is there that justifies someone shooting someone else?

are you drunk???
the scenario of being shot,  allows you to shoot back.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dwerg on February 14, 2014, 09:06:10 am
 :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mr Zog on February 14, 2014, 09:06:27 am
hectic. hope you he goes to prison for a long time. idiots get guns and think they in the movies. probably not the best idea to approach someone im sure in a fit of anger. condolences. sad waste of life.

WTF dirtyXT ???

Biker stops - gets of his bike , walks to car with gun in hand. This sounds like the biker was the agressor and the cager protected himself.

er ok. then he should go to prison... or because he rides a bike he shouldn't?  i dont understand your WTF? explain please?

Who do you want to go to prison  ? The biker ? He can not. He is dead.
The cager ? - why - he acted in self defense .

oh ok. didn't know he was dead. im sure no one is as innocent as it appears right now. someone is dead someone shot someone else. what scenario is there that justifies someone shooting someone else?

easy. when someone approaches you with a gun in his hand, threatening to kill you. and you are stuck in your car in traffic with nowhere to go.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Bie on February 14, 2014, 09:08:10 am
Those looking for trouble are seldom disappointed.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:08:49 am
oh ok. didn't know he was dead. im sure no one is as innocent as it appears right now. someone is dead someone shot someone else. what scenario is there that justifies someone shooting someone else?

are you drunk???
the scenario of being shot,  allows you to shoot back.
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? sorry makes no sense. details are sketchy.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 14, 2014, 09:09:06 am
I agree with you there. It is a sad waste of life. Only scenario that justifies shooting some one else is if it is self defense.

If I am in a cage and a biker stops his bike. Gets off and walks towards me (and shoots at me) then if I am armed I will sure as hell shoot back.

The cager was trapped in traffic with no where to go. The biker could just carry on lanesplitting and get away from the cager if the cager was the agressor.

I agree that obviously this started with a scrap earlier between the two and that it escalated to the point where they drew fire arms , but I do not see a scenario where the cager is the one that started the shooting.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: PierreO on February 14, 2014, 09:10:24 am
Whatever happened the fact is one bloke is dead and another injured . Not nice .
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dwerg on February 14, 2014, 09:10:59 am
oh ok. didn't know he was dead. im sure no one is as innocent as it appears right now. someone is dead someone shot someone else. what scenario is there that justifies someone shooting someone else?

are you drunk???
the scenario of being shot,  allows you to shoot back.
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? details are sketchy.

Exactly why we should all reserve judgement and harsh comments
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 09:11:59 am
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? details are sketchy.

you are drunk!!!!
dude,  let me explain slowly:
i guy is shot,  wounded and on his way to hospital,
the other dude is dead.
obviously biker shot car driver,  and the car driver shot the biker - only the order that it happened is in question.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:12:22 am
oh ok. didn't know he was dead. im sure no one is as innocent as it appears right now. someone is dead someone shot someone else. what scenario is there that justifies someone shooting someone else?

are you drunk???
the scenario of being shot,  allows you to shoot back.
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? details are sketchy.

Exactly why we should all reserve judgement and harsh comments
not judging. just saying someone is dead. someone shot him, and it would take alot to convince me that respect for someones life was at the forefront of the shooters mind.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 09:13:35 am
although,  it is also possible that the biker shot the car driver,  then himself to death,
or
the car driver shot the biker to death and then himself.
i think though that these 2 scenarios are unlikely...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 14, 2014, 09:14:14 am
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? details are sketchy.

you are drunk!!!!
dude,  let me explain slowly:
i guy is shot,  wounded and on his way to hospital,
the other dude is dead.
obviously biker shot car driver,  and the car driver shot the biker - only the order that it happened is in question.


I think to a certain extent the order is irrelevant.  The biker stopped and got off the bike and approached the cage with a firearm. The cager can plead self defense.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:14:23 am
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? details are sketchy.

you are drunk!!!!
dude,  let me explain slowly:
i guy is shot,  wounded and on his way to hospital,
the other dude is dead.
obviously biker shot car driver,  and the car driver shot the biker - only the order that it happened is in question.

stop talking about me getting drunk so early. im watching the clock here for my first beer of the weekend! a lot of speculation going on there nothing is obvious right now. unless you have seen something i haven't?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: ktmmer on February 14, 2014, 09:14:54 am
Or the driver shot the biker the biker shot back and died 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:15:39 am
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? details are sketchy.

you are drunk!!!!
dude,  let me explain slowly:
i guy is shot,  wounded and on his way to hospital,
the other dude is dead.
obviously biker shot car driver,  and the car driver shot the biker - only the order that it happened is in question.


I think to a certain extent the order is irrelevant.  The biker stopped and got off the bike and approached the cage with a firearm. The cager can plead self defense.
do we know that is what happened? he approached the cage with gun in hand threatening his life?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 14, 2014, 09:16:56 am
By stopping and approaching the car the biker was the one that escalated the argument to the point where a person got killed.

He was on a bike and could lane split away from the car if he wanted to.

Road rage is not worth it. just shake your head and get out of the situation.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 09:17:35 am
Or the driver shot the biker the biker shot back and died 

obviously biker shot car driver,  and the car driver shot the biker - only the order that it happened is in question.


yes.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offshore on February 14, 2014, 09:18:01 am
What a waste of a life. It is rough out there, don't get involved in this kind of Shit.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 14, 2014, 09:18:47 am
ok so we know that shots were fired from both people? perhaps a shouting match ensued and then one guy shot the other? or did one guy shoot miss and then get shot himself in self defense? details are sketchy.

you are drunk!!!!
dude,  let me explain slowly:
i guy is shot,  wounded and on his way to hospital,
the other dude is dead.
obviously biker shot car driver,  and the car driver shot the biker - only the order that it happened is in question.


I think to a certain extent the order is irrelevant.  The biker stopped and got off the bike and approached the cage with a firearm. The cager can plead self defense.
do we know that is what happened? he approached the cage with gun in hand threatening his life?

Well.
He did stop. on the side of the road.
and put the side stand out
and got off his bike.
and walked away from his bike

I doubt he did it to go and take a piss next to the road.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: ktmmer on February 14, 2014, 09:19:12 am


Road rage is not worth it. just shake your head and get out of the situation.

These are wise words.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 09:19:39 am
What a waste of a life. It is rough out there, don't get involved in this kind of Shit.


i tell you.
shake your head,  smile in your helmet,  give a wide berth,  go home and have a beer.
you will be chilling in the pool,  and the cager will be steaming in his car...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:21:28 am
By stopping and approaching the car the biker was the one that escalated the argument to the point where a person got killed.

He was on a bike and could lane split away from the car if he wanted to.

Road rage is not worth it. just shake your head and get out of the situation.
100% agreed there. although, what happened to prior to the escalation. must of been serious. you just don't see guys jumping off their super bikes willy nilly.

1. raged biker approached cage without gun drawn to shout the odds, turned his back and got shot.
2. raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds, shoots cager who then returns fire killing him? (unlikely to miss cager in his cage close range???)
3. raged biker shouts the odds and gets shot (most likely scenario for me.)
4. raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds turned his back and got shot.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dusty Rusty on February 14, 2014, 09:22:05 am
Moerigheid laat mense nie reguit dink nie, in hierdie geval sou ek se beide partye het gereageer op emosies wat oorgekook het.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 14, 2014, 09:22:54 am
By stopping and approaching the car the biker was the one that escalated the argument to the point where a person got killed.

He was on a bike and could lane split away from the car if he wanted to.

Road rage is not worth it. just shake your head and get out of the situation.
100% agreed there. although, what happened to prior to the escalation. must of been serious. you just don't see guys jumping off their super bikes willy nilly.

1. raged biker approached cage without gun drawn to shout the odds, turned his back and got shot.
2. raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds, shoots cager who then returns fire killing him? (unlikely to miss cager in his cage close range???)
3. raged biker shouts the odds and gets shot (most likely scenario for me.)
4. raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds turned his back and got shot.
The guy in the car also received a gun shot wound.

I doubt he shot himself.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: cocky on February 14, 2014, 09:23:03 am
Am not surprised this has happened, it was bound to happen on that road. Taxi's drive like nutter's and the cages can't handle the traffic ad poor JMPD management of the traffic and poor driving. Bikers will ALWAYS be the target.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: subie on February 14, 2014, 09:23:44 am
Sad waste of life.
Cannot help but think of an old Sonny and Cher song.

A Cowboy's Work Is Never Done.

Ride, I used to jump my horse and ride
I had a six gun at my side
I was so handsome, women cried
And I got shot but I never died
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Kobus on February 14, 2014, 09:24:16 am
Sorry for his family, but good riddance.



Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eddy81 on February 14, 2014, 09:24:38 am
Sad news,  hope there are no kids left fatherless over a traffic incident.  

We know the car driver has been injured but don't really know if he got shot right?  The biker was armed but he might have hit the car driver while just being armed.

I don't know what's happening around us,  us law abiding citizens are always fighting against each other, some fights even ending in death like this one.  If all this negative energy could just have been directed towards the criminals,  my word how different things could be in this country.  But instead we keep all negativity and hatred we feel inside and let it come out this way.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:24:48 am
By stopping and approaching the car the biker was the one that escalated the argument to the point where a person got killed.

He was on a bike and could lane split away from the car if he wanted to.

Road rage is not worth it. just shake your head and get out of the situation.
100% agreed there. although, what happened to prior to the escalation. must of been serious. you just don't see guys jumping off their super bikes willy nilly.

1. raged biker approached cage without gun drawn to shout the odds, turned his back and got shot.
2. raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds, shoots cager who then returns fire killing him? (unlikely to miss cager in his cage close range???)
3. raged biker shouts the odds and gets shot (most likely scenario for me.)
4. raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds turned his back and got shot.
The guy in the car also received a gun shot wound.

I doubt he shot himself.
5.raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds, shoots cager point blank returns to bike and cager miraculously shoots him dead?

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 09:29:24 am
5.raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds, shoots cager point blank returns to bike and cager miraculously shoots him dead?

i'll put my money on this one.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BryanOC6 on February 14, 2014, 09:31:55 am
Farkit this is NOT how you start your weekend !!

The good head shake always shows the Cager that you are disappointed in their action greater power than confrontation.

Hectic stuff
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 09:40:20 am
5.raged biker approached cage with gun to shout the odds, shoots cager point blank returns to bike and cager miraculously shoots him dead?

i'll put my money on this one.
yeah based in what info we have it hasnt been said that the cager was shot just injured.

6.raged biker approached cage to shout the odds, donners stikkend cager then shoots raged biker

anyway its a horrible waste of life and totally unnecessary, for what? assuming a collision then a couple grand. if not a collision then what a total waste and display of recklessness. shooting in public?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 14, 2014, 09:41:09 am
Subscribe
Fok, en ek laaik mos om de bliksem in te raak en cagers in hul moer in te stuur!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 09:43:47 am
you just don't see guys jumping off their super bikes willy nilly.

You'd be surprised.
:(

Add self-entitlement to a moerse temper, add a god complex and a Glock, put it on a bike and cut it off in traffic and maybe give it the bird and see what happens.

:(


By stopping and approaching the car the biker was the one that escalated the argument to the point where a person got killed.

He was on a bike and could lane split away from the car if he wanted to.

Road rage is not worth it. just shake your head and get out of the situation.

Agree 100%

I'll also add to that - don't even break a mirror. The guy who's got his mirror broken might also just have a 9mm handy

This is so so sad.

:(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 14, 2014, 09:47:21 am
hey,  Eisbein
have you seen the pic?
the guy's bike didn't have a numberplate.   
the coward was probably anonymously looking for shit.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: JFE on February 14, 2014, 09:56:41 am
seems like a Mexican standoff type incident, why would the biker confront the cager with a gun, silly

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/one-killed-suspected-road-rage-incident (http://www.enca.com/south-africa/one-killed-suspected-road-rage-incident)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: alanB on February 14, 2014, 09:59:17 am
Very sad!

I learned this lesson the hard way - smile and wave!  Its just not worth all the hassle becoming self righteous in traffic.

Also once you decide to be generous and just show the other guy some kindness, the whole nasty cycle just unravels and you arrive at your destination a lot less stressed, and maybe so do they! Although some people seem to become enraged even when you try and accommodate them  ::)

But we don't really know what happened here, nor whether it was even road rage?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Allegro on February 14, 2014, 10:00:45 am


Road rage is not worth it. just shake your head and get out of the situation.

These are wise words.  :thumleft:

What I do aswell.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Beebop on February 14, 2014, 10:01:38 am
This is why I dont carry a weapon.
I dont react like I used to in traffic anymore, I generally laugh it off now, and live to see
another day, but there was a time that this could have been me.
Its just not worth it, you never know what the other guy's frame of mind
is, and and whether or not he's armed.
Regardless of who's as fault its a tragic and unnecessary loss of life.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage inciden
Post by: DSNewbie on February 14, 2014, 10:02:37 am
At least he did not drop the bike.

None of us know what really happened after the biker stopped, we do not know whether both parties fired shots, or do we?

But, the biker made himself the aggressor and a target when he stopped instead of riding on.

Never worth it, just ride away.

There are no winners in this scenario.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Rhian on February 14, 2014, 10:02:54 am
black and orange bike
ktm?
800GS??
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Beebop on February 14, 2014, 10:04:35 am
black and orange bike
ktm?
800GS??
Picture is a road bike, looks like a '07 ZX6.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 10:04:41 am
crazy. imagine having a pint at your local pub one day and you end up being shot by someone with a temper and a gun. sad loss of life.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: mox on February 14, 2014, 10:05:19 am
I have a feeling that there is more to this than just road rage.

Nonetheless sad situation.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 10:08:45 am
hey,  Eisbein
have you seen the pic?
the guy's bike didn't have a numberplate.  
the coward was probably anonymously looking for shit.

Which plays directly into my theory of him possibly having had a god complex.

Edit - not making a judgement as we don't have enough facts

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Remy on February 14, 2014, 10:10:21 am
Give the cager the finger maybe a dent or lost mirror then drive like the wind with a smile
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Kobus on February 14, 2014, 10:11:14 am
That is why they say, if you pull a weapon you must be prepared to use it (first)........
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Cave Girl on February 14, 2014, 10:11:54 am
Motorist is badly wounded and was taken to hospital
who shot who then? i understood the biker got shot?

Biker wounded the motorist, motorist fired back. That's what I can pick up from twitter

94.7 says the motorist is criticle ....... facts will be interesting ...

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 14, 2014, 10:12:51 am
I have a feeling that there is more to this than just road rage.

Nonetheless sad situation.
It is strange how things in this country often turn out to be a family murder after everybody else thought it was just criminal murder. But this one will be interresting.
That's the nice thing about court cases, the truth (mostly) comes out.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: PierreO on February 14, 2014, 10:16:09 am
I have a feeling that there is more to this than just road rage.

Nonetheless sad situation.
It is strange how things in this country often turn out to be a family murder after everybody else thought it was just criminal murder. But this one will be interresting.
That's the nice thing about court cases, the truth (mostly) comes out.

But the problem here most probably will be that there will only be one side to the story . One bloke will not be telling his story this time .
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shjakadi on February 14, 2014, 10:18:16 am
Whatever the facts, a lot of peoples lives have been changed by people not being able to control their anger and the need to "teach someone a lesson".

The simple act of just driving on and calling the other a dumb ass would have saved so much heart ache...

Very sad, condolences to all affected.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: mox on February 14, 2014, 10:19:11 am
That is why they say, if you pull a weapon you must be prepared to use it (first)........
Apparently he did.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 10:20:14 am
I have a feeling that there is more to this than just road rage.

Nonetheless sad situation.
It is strange how things in this country often turn out to be a family murder after everybody else thought it was just criminal murder. But this one will be interresting.
That's the nice thing about court cases, the truth (mostly) comes out.

But the problem here most probably will be that there will only be one side to the story . One bloke will not be telling his story this time .

Hopefully because it was peak hour traffic someone would have seen what happens.

Might not be able to describe what happened before this, but at least if some witnesses can give their account it would help clear up who started it and who acted in self defense.

:(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dogboxelectric on February 14, 2014, 10:21:12 am
I hope for the cagers sake the biker was not a member of the MACs.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Grrrr.... on February 14, 2014, 10:21:28 am
Sjoe....

(http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Ged1Grrrr/Bikes/140214RoadRage-jpg_zpsfd4ca6b6.jpg) (http://s573.photobucket.com/user/Ged1Grrrr/media/Bikes/140214RoadRage-jpg_zpsfd4ca6b6.jpg.html)

Seems bike is still OK though.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: King Louis on February 14, 2014, 10:25:52 am
Amazing how people jump to conclusions although they don't know the facts at all. I was about to type they know jack shit, but that would probably offend some.

I find it totally useless to comment  on the theorie of what went wrong.

The only thing it reminds me of is that it is not worth it to get involved in road rage. A sad waste of one life and destruction of another and both their families future.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 10:28:27 am
The only thing it reminds me of is that it is not worth it to get involved in road rage. A sad waste of one life and destruction of another and both their families future.

You have a point - and speculation and assumptions aside - the above comment is what it boils down to.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dirty Boy on February 14, 2014, 10:28:53 am
hey,  Eisbein
have you seen the pic?
the guy's bike didn't have a numberplate.  
the coward was probably anonymously looking for shit.

Dave, do you know what number plates are ?   ;)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dirty Boy on February 14, 2014, 10:30:52 am
We may never know the truth because this 'issue' between the two could have started way up the road, but they only came together here due to traffic conditions.

No matter how it turns out, its sad and families will be grieving.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: shark_za on February 14, 2014, 10:34:36 am
No matter what the stupid driver did to provoke the biker he got what he deserved for getting off his bike and pulling a gun.

Hope the driver recovers.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Go Big on February 14, 2014, 10:37:08 am
There must have been witnesses o the story will come out. Either way I think the biker is not that innocent in all this.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: pirata on February 14, 2014, 10:37:45 am
Again, speculation is not in order.
The left mirror on the bike doesn't appear to be in the right place? Was it clipped perhaps?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Grrrr.... on February 14, 2014, 10:38:39 am
Tell me I am not the only one seeing this....

(http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss172/Ged1Grrrr/Bikes/19ddfaef-4e3e-42c2-9c68-0157c8e59a81_zps8155e216.jpg) (http://s573.photobucket.com/user/Ged1Grrrr/media/Bikes/19ddfaef-4e3e-42c2-9c68-0157c8e59a81_zps8155e216.jpg.html)

Coincidence....?

But seriously. If the initial reports are right and the biker stop and walked to the guy in the car gun drawn then I have very little sympathy.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: I&horse on February 14, 2014, 10:44:04 am
Don't think the biker would have gotten off his bike if it was a family murder.

I don't understand why bikers get road rage, you have to assume no one sees you and look out for yourself, you're the vunerable one.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 14, 2014, 10:45:59 am
Amazing how people jump to conclusions although they don't know the facts at all. I was about to type they know jack shit, but that would probably offend some.
I find it totally useless to comment  on the theorie of what went wrong.

Not useless in my opinion.  Reading through the thread and theories it opens my mind as to what the possible scenarios are.

Facts we know:
- Both were armed
- Biker killed by gun shot
- Cager seriously injured (most likely shot and unlikely from a fist fight or accident)
- Biker got off his bike.

What we don't know:
- What happened before this to escalate into a shooting
- If there is a prior relationship between the two
- If the biker approached the vehicle with gun in hand or holstered
- how many shots were fired and who shot first
- if anyone shot in self defense or rage

That it could have been avoided and a sad loss of life is sad.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 14, 2014, 10:48:07 am
Fuck, that cop's bulletproof has seen better days.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: punisher on February 14, 2014, 10:50:16 am
Need more FACTS
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 14, 2014, 10:52:49 am
hey,  Eisbein
have you seen the pic?
the guy's bike didn't have a numberplate.   
the coward was probably anonymously looking for shit.

Dave, do you know what number plate are ?   ;)

This whole incident must be due to the biker not having a plate on his bike.

Seriously, I know of another biker without a plate who almost got shot in the back   :peepwall:  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: hayleyscomet on February 14, 2014, 10:53:21 am

Slightly off topic - My GOOD Buddy posted on Facebook last night

He was involved in a Taxi indecent , where he was cut-off

He follows the Guy to the next robot and jumps out of his car to go tell the Guy he is a F P**S

SO black guy jumps out with a KNIFE and chases my Buddy across the robot.

In his attempt to Flee he RIPS his Achilles in left foot and tears tendons in right knee


WHAT THE FARK my buddy were you thinking

Now he wants to track the guy down and SUE him - Double WTF

THIS is a True Story

Feel sorry he got hurt - But he could have gotten stabbed

We react to quickly

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Grrrr.... on February 14, 2014, 10:54:40 am
I don't understand why bikers get road rage, you have to assume no one sees you and look out for yourself, you're the vunerable one.

I frequently bump into a guy on my daily commute that rides a white 1200GS Adventure. The guy is a total knob!

He thinks it is his right to lanesplit and heaven help the cars that don't open like the sea before Moses if he is riding. I have seen him bang on windows and bonnets, rev his engine if a car doesn't hop the curve when he is in the vicinity and acts like a right old twatwaffle.

I am no angel on the roads but @#$% I can't see why people get so worked up on a bike. Car I get.... good gawd I can get frustrated in a car but a bike?! If you encounter a asshole, go around him and go on with your day.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: I&horse on February 14, 2014, 10:56:22 am

Slightly off topic - My GOOD Buddy posted on Facebook last night

He was involved in a Taxi indecent , where he was cut-off

He follows the Guy to the next robot and jumps out of his car to go tell the Guy he is a F P**S

SO black guy jumps out with a KNIFE and chases my Buddy across the robot.

In his attempt to Flee he RIPS his Achilles in left foot and tears tendons in right knee


WHAT THE FARK my buddy were you thinking

Now he wants to track the guy down and SUE him - Double WTF

THIS is a True Story

Feel sorry he got hurt - But he could have gotten stabbed

We react to quickly



Fok that must have been funny!!!!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 14, 2014, 10:59:07 am
guy ....  rides a 1200GS Adventure

rev his engine if a car doesn't hop the curve

 :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

That is like revving a naaimasjien. Even with complete exhaust removed those boxers don't make much of a noise.
The cars behind him might hear him but not the ones in front.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: pirata on February 14, 2014, 11:03:19 am
Fuck, that cop's bulletproof has seen better days.

And our cops are expected to perform their duties in a hostile country with equipment that will clearly fail.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Roxtar on February 14, 2014, 11:10:46 am
I GAVE away my gun years ago for fear of ever getting myself into a situation where I might do something I regret later as I had a very short temper then ....... Not saying applicable to this situation or other people who own guns, just my situation!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vlekkie on February 14, 2014, 11:12:58 am
Geez what is it with people shooting each other on Valentines Day???  Last year Oscar, this year this.....
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Grootseun on February 14, 2014, 11:20:34 am
It rains bullets on valentines day in GP.

This whole thing is fucked up.

It's not worth it.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 14, 2014, 11:23:03 am
I GAVE away my gun years ago for fear of ever getting myself into a situation where I might do something I regret later as I had a very short temper then ....... Not saying applicable to this situation or other people who own guns, just my situation!
Also got rid of the guns I inherited. My temper and firearms should be kept far appart.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 14, 2014, 11:25:19 am
I am eagerly awaiting the facts. Sad loss of life indeed

I suppose it is also a real reminder that one should maybe just "smile and wave" in kak situations.
Title: Re: Biker Shot cnr Malibongwe & Boundary
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on February 14, 2014, 11:37:37 am
Sorry for his family, but good riddance.






 :eek7:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 11:40:11 am
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dutchie on February 14, 2014, 11:43:17 am
Eish, die's 'n fokkop.

Looking forward to hearing the whole story. It sounds like there's a decent chance that some overdue natural selection took place.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Battlestar on February 14, 2014, 11:45:01 am
I hope for the cagers sake the biker was not a member of the MACs.

And that is the exact stereo typical reason why the general public fear "bikers"  The whole perceived wild,violent biker club image.

This incident is sadly not unique and probably happens far more frequently than reported world wide
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on February 14, 2014, 11:55:34 am
Where is Jagsding.. now this is the time to post a link to BB2007's Dakar fundraiser challenge.. 1600 odd reads in a morning, it must be a record.

If everyone who reads this donated R200 Neil will be styling  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Doringboom on February 14, 2014, 11:59:58 am
And our cops are expected to perform their duties in a hostile country with equipment that will clearly fail.

Some insist on the failure of their equipment!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BFG on February 14, 2014, 12:04:06 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

If that's the guy then there are photos of a young girl who is never going to see her father again. Very sad.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 12:11:23 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

If that's the guy then there are photos of a young girl who is never going to see her father again. Very sad.

yes and a wife - so unnecessary!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dwerg on February 14, 2014, 12:13:51 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

If that's the guy then there are photos of a young girl who is never going to see her father again. Very sad.

yes and a wife - so unnecessary!

The side view pic on twitter also shows the white around the lights so it looks like it's the same bike
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dish on February 14, 2014, 12:15:29 pm
Im confused as to how you make the connection - are you sure its him ??
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 12:21:19 pm
Im confused as to how you make the connection - are you sure its him ??


I read a RIP with his name on FB and saw the bike on his profile - maybe coincidence, but I doubt it
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: toucan on February 14, 2014, 12:25:18 pm
biker should have taken lessons from oscar on how to shoot through a door...







 :peepwall:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: OomD on February 14, 2014, 12:46:07 pm
hey,  Eisbein
have you seen the pic?
the guy's bike didn't have a numberplate.   
the coward
was probably anonymously looking for shit.

I find it hard to consolidate this post of yours with your view of condoning riding without plates.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Oros on February 14, 2014, 12:53:22 pm
Just maybe, the biker stopped to use the bathroom, guy in car hears a noise in the bathroom & shoots through the door....... :peepwall:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: cocky on February 14, 2014, 12:56:58 pm
Just maybe, the biker stopped to use the bathroom, guy in car hears a noise in the bathroom & shoots through the door....... :peepwall:
And it is valentines day, such things are known to happen.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Maddoglips on February 14, 2014, 01:00:45 pm
The FB Guy that was posted is the Guy involved I know as it is a M8 of my Uncle who lives in GP.

Either way 1 looks at it, it is sad.....

RIP Brother, may you ride the highways of Heaven.

Oh just by the way its a ZX10
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 01:03:50 pm
hey,  Eisbein
have you seen the pic?
the guy's bike didn't have a numberplate.  
the coward
was probably anonymously looking for shit.

I find it hard to consolidate this post of yours with your view of condoning riding without plates.

He was taking a swing at me about my views on his views.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 01:08:25 pm
hey,  Eisbein
have you seen the pic?
the guy's bike didn't have a numberplate.   
the coward
was probably anonymously looking for shit.

I find it hard to consolidate this post of yours with your view of condoning riding without plates.

 :lol8: you should know by now, that he flips between christianity, satanism and atheism as well as law abiding and rebel
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Wooly Bugger on February 14, 2014, 01:21:19 pm
they are/were both d*o*o*s*e.
period.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 01:22:35 pm
they are/were both d*o*o*s*e.
period.
:thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dirty Boy on February 14, 2014, 01:23:14 pm
they are/were both d*o*o*s*e.
period.

Who OomD and Ganjora ? Thats harsh.   :pot:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Wooly Bugger on February 14, 2014, 01:26:37 pm
they are/were both d*o*o*s*e.
period.

Who OomD and Ganjora ? Thats harsh.   :pot:

 i said d*o*o*s*e

not BEEG d*o*o*s*e
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gensetter on February 14, 2014, 01:34:06 pm
Give the cager the finger maybe a dent or lost mirror then drive like the wind with a smile

If you are driving a car, would you also dent the offending person's car, or rip a mirror off ?
On a bike, the skollie mentality surfaces.
be careful, the real gangsters drive cars.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Kaboef on February 14, 2014, 01:40:37 pm

Slightly off topic - My GOOD Buddy posted on Facebook last night

He was involved in a Taxi indecent , where he was cut-off





I would HAVE circumcised him too if he was BEING indecent in my taxi.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Wooly Bugger on February 14, 2014, 01:41:55 pm
fuck, I can't check everything.....?
thanks, Kaboef.........

 :thumleft: :deal:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Réhann on February 14, 2014, 01:42:35 pm
<deleted>
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: kwassi on February 14, 2014, 01:45:44 pm
Beste informasie nog
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: OomD on February 14, 2014, 01:51:36 pm
This is sad, and so unnecessary. A life lost is always unnecessary.

But, it does highlight the need for road users to practise restraint and respect for others.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 01:52:12 pm
Latest from The Citizen:
http://citizen.co.za/127878/update-biker-road-rage-victim-threatened-motorist/ (http://citizen.co.za/127878/update-biker-road-rage-victim-threatened-motorist/)

Quote
One man has died and another is in hospital under police guard following an alleged road rage incident in North Riding, north of Johannesburg on Friday morning.

A motorcyclist was shot in the stomach and arm; however police could not say which arm. “Two guns were found on the scene and the motorcyclist and the driver of the vehicle were both away from their vehicles,” said metro police spokesperson Edna Mamonyane

“The driver of the car had a head injury but when the officer was examining him, could not say if it was caused by a bullet wound. The driver of the car alleged that the driver of the motorcycle, came in front of him and blocked him, climbed off his bike, and pointed a firearm at him. The driver of the vehicle also had a firearm and shots were exchanged.”

Mamonyane added the driver was claiming self-defence. “Details are a little sketchy because the officer was attending to the wounded person, calling for SAPS and backup, and also directing traffic while attending to the deceased.”

A source informed The Citizen that the driver of the car appeared to have marks to his face which may have been caused by the butt of a firearm from an earlier incident.

Netcare 911 spokesperson Santi Steinman told The Citizen that according to paramedics on the scene, the driver of the car’s injury was definitely caused by a bullet. “The wound is serious because it was to the head, but it is not life-threatening.”

The shooting took place on Malibongwe Drive near Witkoppen Road at about 7am on Firday.

The story also has a gallery of rubber-necking pics there.
think its going to be interesting. Ive said it before and Ill say it again... cowboys. now someone has lost a life. very clever.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Grrrr.... on February 14, 2014, 01:52:57 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

So it seems this was the guy.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 01:54:33 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

So it seems this was the guy.



Looks like it.

Is his brother THE Nigel Pearce ?



Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 01:55:18 pm
This is sad, and so unnecessary. A life lost is always unnecessary.

But, it does highlight the need for road users to practise restraint and respect for others.

true! and NEVER pull a gun, if you're not prepared to get shot yourself
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 01:56:47 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

So it seems this was the guy.



Looks like it.

Is his brother THE Nigel Pearce ?


Proll'y not:

https://www.facebook.com/nigel.pearce.370 (https://www.facebook.com/nigel.pearce.370)

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Grrrr.... on February 14, 2014, 02:06:30 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

So it seems this was the guy.



Looks like it.

Is his brother THE Nigel Pearce ?





My detective brain says yes, yes it is.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 02:10:58 pm
Different spelling:

Nigel Pierce

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Skipskop on February 14, 2014, 02:17:26 pm
 ?














Title: Re: Re: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 14, 2014, 02:29:25 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

So it seems this was the guy.



Looks like it.

Is his brother THE Nigel Pearce ?
whos he?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 14, 2014, 02:42:10 pm
I had to defend a client in a criminal case last year when two men argued about a parking space at Tyger Valley centre which turned ugly. Both very nice guys and so easy to see how it escalated . Such a waste of manpower , but fortunately they could live and put the lessons learnt to good use .

It's so easy to snap in SA where we are faced with so much violence . Put a bit of hunger, tiredness , bad traffic , bad day , fight with the boss/ wife , race conflict and it could happen so easily. We can all say we will never do something like that ,but every person has a breaking point.

Rest and peace , and condolences to the family.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: H2O on February 14, 2014, 02:48:09 pm
Sheeesh... I FEEL for everyone who had to see these two idiots going at it... can you imagine being in the car right behind or alongside when these guys started exchanging fire?  :o
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 14, 2014, 02:48:27 pm
Both very nice guys and so easy to see how it escalated

Weird statement

:biggrin:

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 14, 2014, 02:54:20 pm
Both very nice guys and so easy to see how it escalated

Weird statement

:biggrin:



I was talking about the two guys in my case.  The snr SP agreed to settle it in his office. So the whole story was told in the greatest of detail and yes I could see how it escalated bit by bit . My client has never been involved in any anger issues in his life , but yes in this case I could see how they provoked each other and it escalated so quickly. But ,in the end a small donation was paid and the two left the office almost best of friends. This was almost a year after the incident so I guess they had cooled off by then.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: cocky on February 14, 2014, 03:30:39 pm
Johannesburg - A motorcyclist shot dead in an apparent road-rage confrontation in Johannesburg on Friday had assaulted the man who shot him, police said.

The 39-year-old biker and the sedan driver, 44, had an argument while driving on Malibongwe Drive just after Witkoppen Road, said Lt-Col Katlego Mogale.

They both pulled off the road, the biker confronted the driver and the argument got heated.

“The biker allegedly assaulted the motorist who in turn fired shots, fatally wounding him.”

The motorist was injured. He was treated on the scene by paramedics before being transported to hospital under police guard.

His condition was described as serious.

Police recovered firearms from both men. They had been taken for ballistic testing, said Mogale.

Police had opened a murder docket.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Archangel on February 14, 2014, 03:43:20 pm
According to this article, the biker shot first...

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/14/joburg-biker-motorist-shot-at-each-other-in-road-rage-killing (http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/14/joburg-biker-motorist-shot-at-each-other-in-road-rage-killing)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 14, 2014, 03:47:20 pm
Ai, die f0kk3n land van ons...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vlekkie on February 14, 2014, 03:48:00 pm
According to this article, the biker shot first...

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/14/joburg-biker-motorist-shot-at-each-other-in-road-rage-killing (http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/14/joburg-biker-motorist-shot-at-each-other-in-road-rage-killing)

Well if that is true then the biker was totally insane....!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lommies on February 14, 2014, 03:49:10 pm
According to this article, the biker shot first...

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/14/joburg-biker-motorist-shot-at-each-other-in-road-rage-killing (http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/02/14/joburg-biker-motorist-shot-at-each-other-in-road-rage-killing)

faaark biker vs cager asook race issue ?? jeez bad bad bad  :-\
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 14, 2014, 03:49:19 pm
Thanks Arcangel . : " Eyewitness, Jedde Kasamba, said he saw a white man on a motorbike stop in front of the car and start shooting at an older black man who then ducked down for his gun and shot back"

Not really surprised that race played a part. Sadly that tends to escalate things even quicker . :'(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: cocky on February 14, 2014, 03:52:52 pm
Thanks Arcangel . : " Eyewitness, Jedde Kasamba, said he saw a white man on a motorbike stop in front of the car and start shooting at an older black man who then ducked down for his gun and shot back"

Not really surprised that race played a part. Sadly that tends to escalate things even quicker . :'(
Do then, as per IOL's article the biker did not have a gun ..... and was shot. WTF has race got to do with it? We have had a number of stories of bikes been knocked over by cagers and in the main white's, so now it is a race thing and a road rage thing ......... yeeees lets blame apartheid.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Kerritz on February 14, 2014, 03:54:22 pm
Either way...dis 'n fokkop......en so onnodig!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Archangel on February 14, 2014, 03:55:47 pm
Thanks Arcangel . : " Eyewitness, Jedde Kasamba, said he saw a white man on a motorbike stop in front of the car and start shooting at an older black man who then ducked down for his gun and shot back"

Not really surprised that race played a part. Sadly that tends to escalate things even quicker . :'(
Do then, as per IOL's article the biker did not have a gun ..... and was shot. WTF has race got to do with it? We have had a number of stories of bikes been knocked over by cagers and in the main white's, so now it is a race thing and a road rage thing ......... yeeees lets blame apartheid.

My feelings was also that race was pulled in to justify the shooting. It's not even clear whether the biker fired a shot, he could have hit the driver on the head with the gun, then walked back to his bike... Car driver pulls gun from seat and shoots biker in the back?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: J-dog on February 14, 2014, 03:58:27 pm
2 thoughts...

1. Harl8quin

2.  "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection"

ke sera
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 14, 2014, 04:28:49 pm
Thanks Arcangel . : " Eyewitness, Jedde Kasamba, said he saw a white man on a motorbike stop in front of the car and start shooting at an older black man who then ducked down for his gun and shot back"

Not really surprised that race played a part. Sadly that tends to escalate things even quicker . :'(
Do then, as per IOL's article the biker did not have a gun ..... and was shot. WTF has race got to do with it? We have had a number of stories of bikes been knocked over by cagers and in the main white's, so now it is a race thing and a road rage thing ......... yeeees lets blame apartheid.

Not blaming apartheid . Saying that people tend to have less sympathy with someone that is not like them. So more potential for misunderstandings when 2 people come from different sexes , races , cultures. But yes good point , there is probably a greater divide between bikers and car drivers than between the races.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vintage_Mania on February 14, 2014, 04:37:16 pm
Johannesburg - A motorcyclist shot dead in an apparent road-rage confrontation in Johannesburg on Friday had assaulted the man who shot him, police said.

The 39-year-old biker and the sedan driver, 44, had an argument while driving on Malibongwe Drive just after Witkoppen Road, said Lt-Col Katlego Mogale.

They both pulled off the road, the biker confronted the driver and the argument got heated.

“The biker allegedly assaulted the motorist who in turn fired shots, fatally wounding him.”

The motorist was injured. He was treated on the scene by paramedics before being transported to hospital under police guard.

His condition was described as serious.

Police recovered firearms from both men. They had been taken for ballistic testing, said Mogale.

Police had opened a murder docket.

Just hurd the same story on 702. Only added detail was the driver was assaulted by the biker in the face with the butt of his pistol. He was treated for head and face injuries and isnow in police custody.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on February 14, 2014, 05:37:01 pm
Fork but the reporting in this country is pathetic, the incident happened this morning and the story has gone viral, eye witnesses have been questioned and still there is nothing but vague reporting and more questions than answers..

Useless.  :sip:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: arno on February 14, 2014, 06:02:40 pm
Fork but the reporting in this country is pathetic, the incident happened this morning and the story has gone viral, eye witnesses have been questioned and still there is nothing but vague reporting and more questions than answers..

Useless.  :sip:
You will have to wait at least 12 months for the real facts....when people testify in Court under oath . Untill then all is speculation and sensation . Look at the Oscar thread . Now at 141 pages all based on rumours and sensational reporting .
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Just Blip It! on February 14, 2014, 06:21:51 pm
Based on the Facebook comments, the victim was a great guy and much loved by everyone. >:( RIP.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Kneeslider on February 14, 2014, 06:42:33 pm
they are/were both d*o*o*s*e.
period.

No, no, no, the taal poliste we catch you,
It is not d*o*o*s*e, it is dees.
One goose, many geese
One d*o*o*s, many dees
Now lets not talk about this again.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: SuperDavexlv750r on February 14, 2014, 08:41:28 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

I believe you are right. Young lady working for me told me it was a friend of hers and he was generally not a hot head?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offshore on February 14, 2014, 08:58:37 pm
I would like to know what that cnut did to provoke the Biker to get into a Rage like that.  Don't misunderstand me I am totally against Road Rage but we get tested every day with these Arrogant Fuckers.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: ChrisMann on February 14, 2014, 09:12:26 pm
I am sure ALL of us had met our share of idiot drivers. Did you pull a gun on the cager that nearly took you out?

What is the difference between what Oscar did and this oke?

Not my type of "he was such a nice guy..." anyway.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4368317285638&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&permPage=1 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4368317285638&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&permPage=1)

It is sad what happened and I really do not want to judge, but sorry I feel safer in a world without trigger happy testosteronions. It could just as well be your wife sitting in that car...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Edd on February 14, 2014, 09:12:43 pm
RIP Doug you will be missed.  >:(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 14, 2014, 09:14:46 pm
very sad indeed and it will be good if the facts come out  :'(

from FB it seems like this was the biker

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200170532725575&set=pb.1219129762.-2207520000.1392370735.&type=3&theater)

I believe you are right. Young lady working for me told me it was a friend of hers and he was generally not a hot head?

seems to not have been good enough today.... irrespective of what the cager did

I've been in situations recently where I wanted to punch people and probably would have 10 years ago.... just to risky these days
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: detour on February 14, 2014, 09:23:03 pm
Het nog nooit in Gauteng op 'n bike commute nie, maar hier onder is die meeste "dees" wat ek teekom op 2 wiele eerder as 4. Baie van die manne ry volgens hulle eie stel reëls en sommige vererg hulle dan sommer as ander ouens nie volgens daardie selfde fiktiewe reëls bestuur nie.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: RedRum on February 14, 2014, 10:18:31 pm
....maar hier onder is die meeste "dees" wat ek teekom op 2 wiele eerder as 4. Baie van die manne ry volgens hulle eie stel reëls....

ag jammer man, 'skies! Kannie Helpie! Moenie skietie!
 >:D



BRAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaap!





terug op topic...
Ek was nou onlanks daar bo vir n paar dae...
Die verkeer is k@k; mense het nie maniere nie.
Ek moes maar diep asemhaal elke keer as nog n voertuig doen wat hulle wil. Blatant. Geregtig. Herhalend.
Asof die reels van basiese dinge soos hoe rye werk in gemeenskap- net vir sommige is
Ek sien die ouens op bike wat commute is maar min; mens kan verstaan met die onvoorspelbaarheid van mense se interpretasie van die pad tekens and reels kan dit dodelik raak daar vinnig.

ek het my bike gemis om dit eerder te kon skip...


niks se dit beter as dit nie:
Either way...dis 'n fokkop......en so onnodig!





Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Kameel on February 14, 2014, 10:21:31 pm
Oops...irony.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150529205624812&set=t.1219129762&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150529205624812&set=t.1219129762&type=3&theater)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: ALLEN I on February 15, 2014, 01:24:30 am
Not just the 2 blokes involved any more. Im pretty shure they had families and friends and such so in the end it will take its toll on all of them. Stuff like this sucks. old saying (spuit kom te laat)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mzee on February 15, 2014, 06:10:13 am
Sorry for both families.  I just ride: if there is way I go otherwise I wait.  I don't hoot, I don't bang or talk to anyone except if it is courteous.  Soberness will in all cases work in your favour.  If you should think that you are the angriest person on the road, wait until to find someone even more angrier than you.  The consequences are often tragic.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 15, 2014, 07:28:46 am
This could serve as a lesson to all who are so quick to want to deal out PK's, let me tell you if I was assaulted in any way, I would retaliate.

If facts here are correct, the motorist can claim self-defence, unless he shot the biker in the back.

Motorist 1, biker fokkol.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: TheBear on February 15, 2014, 08:46:47 am
Fork but the reporting in this country is pathetic, the incident happened this morning and the story has gone viral, eye witnesses have been questioned and still there is nothing but vague reporting and more questions than answers..

Useless.  :sip:

So, do you reckon the police and prosecuting authority should have their reports in the press?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: lecap on February 15, 2014, 08:49:40 am
i just heard on the news that the car driver was also wounded.
appears like a bit of an 'old wild west' shoot out...

Those who live by the sword die by the sword.
Very sad.

Traffic in the Mother City was somewhat crazy yesterday too. Slow moving, little if any space fro splitting, pizza oven heat.


Wooooooo sssssaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shark_za on February 15, 2014, 08:56:45 am
Shooting someone in the back is not cut and dried, he could be moving to cover to carry on shooting, clearing a malfunction , pausing to reload.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 15, 2014, 09:20:05 am
I would like to know what that cnut did to provoke the Biker to get into a Rage like that.  Don't misunderstand me I am totally against Road Rage but we get tested every day with these Arrogant Fuckers.

That is the million dollar question for me too, I was just too scared to ask it in case someone gets offended. :biggrin:  If we go into life or death situation, logic and reason can shut down and instincts/rage can take over. Disclaimer , I am not defending what anyone did , we don't have enough facts , but I am curious as to how a seemingly normal guy just snapped one sunny day.  

And it can sometimes takes a long time to reconstruct exactly what happens , can't blame the reporters. Always difficult when one of the witnesses can't testify.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 15, 2014, 09:28:51 am
This could serve as a lesson to all who are so quick to want to deal out PK's, let me tell you if I was assaulted in any way, I would retaliate.

If facts here are correct, the motorist can claim self-defence, unless he shot the biker in the back.

Motorist 1, biker fokkol.

Agree!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Parkinoff on February 15, 2014, 09:35:56 am
Sorry for both families.  I just ride: if there is way I go otherwise I wait.  I don't hoot, I don't bang or talk to anyone except if it is courteous.  Soberness will in all cases work in your favour.  If you should think that you are the angriest person on the road, wait until to find someone even more angrier than you.  The consequences are often tragic.
:thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 15, 2014, 09:37:38 am
I would like to know what that cnut did to provoke the Biker to get into a Rage like that.  Don't misunderstand me I am totally against Road Rage but we get tested every day with these Arrogant Fuckers.

That is the million dollar question for me too, I was just too scared to ask it in case someone gets offended. :biggrin:  If we go into life or death situation, logic and reason can shut down and instincts/rage can take over. Disclaimer , I am not defending what anyone did , we don't have enough facts , but I am curious as to how a seemingly normal guy just snapped one sunny day.  

And it can sometimes takes a long time to reconstruct exactly what happens , can't blame the reporters. Always difficult when one of the witnesses can't testify.

In my experience when something really scary happens there is very little argument, one party normally shaken and the other apologetic.

Most road rage incidents develop from something small and the ego's and tempers take over escalating it into violent outbursts.

Then there is also a part of the population that takes it upon themselves to dish out education by means of PK's in traffic. These guys will jump out at the first sign of anybody even remotely offending them. They brag about throwing keys into the veldt, smashing mirrors and headlights etc. These you should watch out for.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offshore on February 15, 2014, 09:57:35 am
I would like to know what that cnut did to provoke the Biker to get into a Rage like that.  Don't misunderstand me I am totally against Road Rage but we get tested every day with these Arrogant Fuckers.

Then there is also a part of the population that takes it upon themselves to dish out education by means of PK's in traffic. These guys will jump out at the first sign of anybody even remotely offending them. They brag about throwing keys into the veldt, smashing mirrors and headlights etc. These you should watch out for.

A Powderkeg
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Just Blip It! on February 15, 2014, 10:03:17 am
Seems like the biker only dealt the car driver a PK and when he turned around to walk back to his bike he was shot in the back and in the arm. That to me is straight murder, not self protection! He didn't even fire his weapon!

http://www.volksblad.com/nuus/2014-02-14-padwoede-eis-pa-van-vierjarige (http://www.volksblad.com/nuus/2014-02-14-padwoede-eis-pa-van-vierjarige)

 JOHANNESBURG. – Douglas Pearce het nie die kans gehad om Valentynsdag saam met sy vrou en vierjarige dogtertjie te vier nie – hy is gister omstreeks 07:00 in ’n padwoedevoorval in Randburg doodgeskiet.

Pearce (39) het op sy oranje Kawasaki Ninja ZX10 deur die vroegoggendverkeer op Malibongwe-rylaan in die rigting van Randparkrif, waar hy saam met sy vrou, Tammy, en dogter, Nicole, woon, gevleg toe daar ’n onderonsie tussen hom en ’n 44-jarige prokureur in ’n Chevrolet-motor uitgebreek het.

Dit het tot ’n woordewisseling gelei en albei het op dié pad, tussen Witkoppen- en Boundary-straat, links van die geel lyn aan die linkerkant van die pad afgetrek, het lt.kol. Katlego Mogale, polisiewoordvoerder, gesê.

“Dit blyk dat die oorledene van sy motorfiets afgeklim en na die motor geloop het. Hier het die mans kwaai woorde gewissel en die oorledene het die man in die Chevrolet na bewering geklap of geslaan.”

Na verneem word, is die prokureur, wat in die landdroshof in Roodepoort op aanklag van moord sal verskyn, vir ’n ernstige kopwond in die hospitaal behandel.

Albei mans het vuurwapens gedra, wat tot die plofbaarheid van die situasie bygedra het, het Mogale gesê.

 Pearce was volgens ’n ooggetuie besig om na sy motorfiets terug te draai om weg te ry toe die eerste skoot val.

Dit het hom regs agter, laag in die rug, getref en het dwarsdeur sy lyf getrek.

Die tweede keer wat die sneller getrek is, het die vuurwapen nie ’n geluid gemaak nie, vermoedelik omdat daar nie ’n patroon in dié silinderkamer van die rewolwer was nie.

Maar die derde skoot het weer getref – dié keer in Pearce se linker-boarm.

Hy het hom op die toneel doodgebloei.

Volgens ooggetuies het Pearce nie ’n skoot afgetrek nie.

Hy is op die toneel dood en Netcare 911 het die prokureur onder polisiebewaking na ’n hospitaal geneem.

Pearce het by SportsApp, ’n Gautengse maatskappy wat sporttoerusting aan skole verskaf, gewerk, en Tammy is ’n kleuterskoolonderwyser.

Pearce se jonger broer, Nigel, het gesê sy broer sou enigiets vir sy vriende en familie doen.

 “Tammy is in ’n toestand.

“En Nicole . . . ons weet nie mooi hoe ons dié aan haar gaan verduidelik nie.”

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 15, 2014, 10:03:19 am
 Yes perhaps the rider regularly swore at motorists and bashed mirrors , but perhaps not . I am curious what made a seemingly happily married ,non-criminal rider, on a nice bike, snap so badly this one time.  I have a feeling there is more to it , that he was seriously provoked , that's all  . I also don't like it if bikers or anyone wants to retaliate , just curious as to the chain of events that led to this tragedy.   
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Just Blip It! on February 15, 2014, 10:09:23 am
Got this off FB, someone who knows him and what actually happened it seems;

"This morning Doug got up 2 go 2 work.. he kissed his wife and 4yr old daughter goodbye, got on his bike and left.. on the way a motorist cut in front of him... they drove on swearing and gesturing as is normally the case in situations like this... a few mins later Doug pulled in front of the motorist, got of the bike, walked upto the car, words were exchanged and Doug fisted the motorist in the face and walked away.. mins later he lay dead, shot twice by this motorist.. 1nce in the arm and 1nce in the back... at no time was the motorist shot... All he has is a head injury from the punch. And is now charged with the murder of Doug... The hearing will b on Tuesday. Back at home a wife sits, family around her, devastated, no words r a comfort. Her 4yr old daughter runs around playing.. And she knows at some point,she has 2 tell her baby that her daddy isn't coming home. This is the facts of this tradgedy.. And I sit knowing theres nothing any of us can say 2 comfort Tammy. R.I.P Doug"
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shark_za on February 15, 2014, 10:19:48 am
You could write that a whole lot differently....
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: krazy-eyes on February 15, 2014, 10:23:43 am
It's the same thing every time...."why would such a friendly guy snap like that and assault/kill someone?"

People, in a fight-or-flight situation it is a known FACT that your brainstem does the thinking FOR you and you have no control anymore.
The brainstem is incapable of reasoning or weighing up consequences of actions - There is no more reasoning, only survival....ie. eliminate the threat at all costs.
When both people allow their brainstem to take over, people die, plain and simple.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shark_za on February 15, 2014, 10:25:24 am
"Eyewitness, Jedde Kasamba, said he saw a white man on a motorbike stop in front of the car and start shooting at an older black man who then ducked down for his gun and shot back. "

Lets see what the evidence suggests.  You point a gun at me I will definitely return fire, back or not.
Bodyguard? Typical steroid aggro type found at clubs?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Veldbrand on February 15, 2014, 10:31:46 am

 Pearce was volgens ’n ooggetuie besig om na sy motorfiets terug te draai om weg te ry toe die eerste skoot val.

Dit het hom regs agter, laag in die rug, getref en het dwarsdeur sy lyf getrek.

Die tweede keer wat die sneller getrek is, het die vuurwapen nie ’n geluid gemaak nie, vermoedelik omdat daar nie ’n patroon in dié silinderkamer van die rewolwer was nie.

Maar die derde skoot het weer getref – dié keer in Pearce se linker-boarm..........


............Volgens ooggetuies het Pearce nie ’n skoot afgetrek nie..........


INDIEN hierdie deur ooggetuies bevestig kan word, het daai prokereur 'n lang en ongemaklike wagtydperk saam met 'n hele span ander lustige manne wat vir hom voorlê.
Net jammer dat hy seker wel na 'n ruk sy vrou en kinders sal kan sien en voortgaan asof niks gebeur het nie.
Hoe dit ookal sy, Doug se gesin en familie sal nooit weer daai voorreg hê nie.

Justice is a town that no-one's ever found. >:(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: krazy-eyes on February 15, 2014, 10:33:50 am
"Eyewitness, Jedde Kasamba, said he saw a white man on a motorbike stop in front of the car and start shooting at an older black man who then ducked down for his gun and shot back. "

Ask five different so called eye witnesses what colour the car was. I guarantee you will get five different colours.

People cant remember facts in situations like these.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shark_za on February 15, 2014, 10:34:05 am
Sources  informed The Citizen that the driver of the car appeared to have marks to his face which may have been caused by the butt of a firearm from an earlier incident.

Netcare 911 spokesperson Santi Steinman said that according to paramedics on the scene, the driver of the car’s injury was definitely caused by a bullet.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 15, 2014, 11:52:55 am
The sad thing is that the real guilty party here is not to be prosecuted at all. The SA traffic authorities, who speed traps all day and should actually do all in their power to bring road
lawlessness under control.

It remains UNACCEPTABLE to walk up to anyone and hit them in the face, regardless of how that person taunts you. If you struggle to control yourself, go for help.

Once again, the actions of people makes firearms look bad.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 15, 2014, 12:58:06 pm
It's the same thing every time...."why would such a friendly guy snap like that and assault/kill someone?"

People, in a fight-or-flight situation it is a known FACT that your brainstem does the thinking FOR you and you have no control anymore.
The brainstem is incapable of reasoning or weighing up consequences of actions - There is no more reasoning, only survival....ie. eliminate the threat at all costs.
When both people allow their brainstem to take over, people die, plain and simple
.

Exactly my point on the top of this page . Thanks for making it clearer :thumleft:

 And yes some will say what a nice guy  ,and others will paint him all bad, but I think we are all capable of doing something extreme in fight -or -flight situations , so yes it does irk me how self- righteous some people get when they point fingers and say they will never do it , all angels on this forum  :biggrin: >:D.

The biker paid the dearest price . As for the driver  ,  it will depend on whether he attacked in self defence and within the bounds of it , or whether he retaliated. Not fair to say we don't have justice.  Self-defence involves complex legal issues , and then after the Court has sat through months of testimony , to work it all out , people still come out and say it's unfair and the judgement wrong, despite not having put foot in Court or read the transcript .  ::) 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: superten on February 15, 2014, 01:08:24 pm
Ah,its perfectly clear.

Driver gets PK
Driver shoots biker
Driver's gun jams
Driver looks down barrel and pulls trigger
Drivers ear blown off
Driver shoots biker a second time in anger

When I read the description of the driver,I just knew...

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gérrard on February 15, 2014, 01:34:54 pm

Ah,its perfectly clear.

When I read the description of the driver,I just knew...


That he is black or that he's a lawyer ? Tell us... we're not all so perceptive.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Andre.Bike on February 15, 2014, 01:39:14 pm
Ek dink nog steeds as jy na iemand stap en hom n PK gee, dan moet jy vat wat na jou kant toe kom, reg of verkeerd........ As jy dink dit is jou plig om iemand te oordeel en straf uit te deel gaan dit jou inhaal. Jy kry dit dalk vir n paar slae reg net todat jy by die verkeerde persoon kom. Ry eerder weg....
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: superten on February 15, 2014, 01:40:53 pm

Ah,its perfectly clear.

When I read the description of the driver,I just knew...


That he is black or that he's a lawyer ? Tell us... we're not all so perceptive.

That he is the kind of person that shoots people in the back,of course.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lommies on February 15, 2014, 01:52:21 pm

Ah,its perfectly clear.

When I read the description of the driver,I just knew...


That he is black or that he's a lawyer ? Tell us... we're not all so perceptive.

That he is the kind of person that shoots people in the back,of course.

Jup, jy't in daai pothole ingehardloop... ;)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: jagter on February 15, 2014, 02:14:57 pm
One messed up story with polar opposite witness accounts.

In 1 scenario the driver is 100% guilty of murder, and in the other scenario it was self defence.

Still a bad move from both of them to stop to fight. But like others have said, everyone has their breaking point,  especially when a cager tries to use his car as a weapon.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 16, 2014, 06:16:24 pm
Having had some time to think about this, I’ve now decided there are two parties responsible, maybe indirectly, for this incident.
One party are the metro police, who are known to regularly take bribes. Their bribe-taking leads to the total anarchy which is Gauteng traffic.
The other party are the group of people who bribe the metro police. They drive in any way that they want to, in the safe knowledge that a Mandela or two will smooth over any problems.
Get rid of these two parties and suddenly everybody will be forced to obey the rules, or to pay the penalties. If people knew that someone who regularly breaks the law will be caught and penalised, they will probably be far less inclined to take the law into their own hands.
But most importantly, the roads would be safer.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 16, 2014, 07:57:05 pm
Having had some time to think about this, I’ve now decided there are two parties responsible, maybe indirectly, for this incident.
One party are the metro police, who are known to regularly take bribes. Their bribe-taking leads to the total anarchy which is Gauteng traffic.
The other party are the group of people who bribe the metro police. They drive in any way that they want to, in the safe knowledge that a Mandela or two will smooth over any problems.
Get rid of these two parties and suddenly everybody will be forced to obey the rules, or to pay the penalties. If people knew that someone who regularly breaks the law will be caught and penalised, they will probably be far less inclined to take the law into their own hands.
But most importantly, the roads would be safer.

Is that not the root of the problem? Blame "them/it" for our mistakes without taking personal accountability!

Modern society uses excuses like ADD, apartheid, racism, biker, cager etc. instead of standing up and admitting "I f_cked up!" or "I choose to not just move on and insist on teaching the guy a lesson!"

I get the blind anger theory but even that can be avoided by using the big brain we were born with, evaluating the options and choosing the grown-up action.

There is no excuse for what happened. It was a fight like any other you see on schoolyards, in bars etc. As a father and husband you choose to avoid certain situations because you are responsible for others. You give up extreme sports because you need to be there for your daughters wedding and your sons education. You avoid altercations because you know the other guy might just be more upset, more desperate or better armed. You grow to accept that your's is not always bigger and even when it is, you choose to not prove it because you have grown up and developed self confidence.

Anarchy cannot be blamed on anyone but the people perpetuating the acts. Stop doing it because you should, not because you can get caught. It's called a paradigm shift.

Edit: One of my favourite songs by the Eagles lyrics' articulates it very eloquently:

http://youtu.be/1H-Y7MAASkg
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: elandsrider on February 16, 2014, 08:01:11 pm
We live in a lawless society. A law abiding society is such due to the consequence of breaking the law being effective.
 Have crossed roads in european countries at pedestrian crossings where people walk when the green man appears and wait when the red man is up. Cars will stop when green and will only go when road is clear. Generally law is abided, in this banana rep its everyone to themselves, very unfortunate incident. Guns dont kill, its the idiot behind it
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Phacochoerus on February 16, 2014, 08:18:27 pm
Just heard on 702 that a biker has been shot dead in a road rage incident on Madibongwe road in Randburg! Apparently the traffic was slow and the biker and motorist had some kind of argument and the biker stopped and got off his bike and went to talk to the guy - and now I am not 100% sure if the biker pulled a gun first but apparently he walked back to his bike and the motorist shot him twice. ( My facts are here say from the radio and I am sure that news story's will surface soon with the proper facts...)

Wow man guy's be careful out there...
Stopping someone who annoys you by his actions can be dangerous and you should at most just give him the finger, ride away and stay alive for another day. Johnny Cash wrote a song called " Don't take your guns to town son, leave your guns at home"
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on February 16, 2014, 08:48:58 pm
I can't believe that a road rage incident happens and people decide that it is a good idea to point the finger at the metro Police  ??? people need to take responsibility for their actions, I don't go around shooting people and blame the corrupt gov.

Really  ::)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: spoedvark on February 16, 2014, 10:19:55 pm
Sad day with many more sad days to follow for a wife, mother and daughter!

All those valentine's days ahead, birthdays, Christmas's, etc.

Sad sad day which could easily have been avoided by passing the cages and as you carry on down the road just shaking your head!!!

Sad day!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bernt on February 16, 2014, 10:32:39 pm
As an adventure rider I know I have to endure the uneducated on the roads but to know I will always enjoy the freedom of offroad trails or dirt keeps me sane....
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BraLu on February 16, 2014, 10:34:05 pm
Hoor Hoor Lord Knormoer!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mev Vis Arend on February 17, 2014, 07:36:33 am
Hoor Hoor Lord Knormoer!

Sê ek ook. 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 17, 2014, 07:41:25 am
Having had some time to think about this, I’ve now decided there are two parties responsible, maybe indirectly, for this incident.
One party are the metro police, who are known to regularly take bribes. Their bribe-taking leads to the total anarchy which is Gauteng traffic.
The other party are the group of people who bribe the metro police. They drive in any way that they want to, in the safe knowledge that a Mandela or two will smooth over any problems.
Get rid of these two parties and suddenly everybody will be forced to obey the rules, or to pay the penalties. If people knew that someone who regularly breaks the law will be caught and penalised, they will probably be far less inclined to take the law into their own hands.
But most importantly, the roads would be safer.


you know,  leon,  i have given this a lot of thought.
i fell responsible.
after my reported in the newspaper dodging of bullets, 
i think maybe this chap also thought he could dodge bullets.

i want to state categorically for the record:  dodging bullets is not easy to do,  and should not be attempted by people i have not trained.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gene on February 17, 2014, 07:59:44 am
Got this off FB, someone who knows him and what actually happened it seems;

"This morning Doug got up 2 go 2 work.. he kissed his wife and 4yr old daughter goodbye, got on his bike and left.. on the way a motorist cut in front of him... they drove on swearing and gesturing as is normally the case in situations like this... a few mins later Doug pulled in front of the motorist, got of the bike, walked upto the car, words were exchanged and Doug fisted the motorist in the face and walked away.. mins later he lay dead, shot twice by this motorist.. 1nce in the arm and 1nce in the back... at no time was the motorist shot... All he has is a head injury from the punch. And is now charged with the murder of Doug... The hearing will b on Tuesday. Back at home a wife sits, family around her, devastated, no words r a comfort. Her 4yr old daughter runs around playing.. And she knows at some point,she has 2 tell her baby that her daddy isn't coming home. This is the facts of this tradgedy.. And I sit knowing theres nothing any of us can say 2 comfort Tammy. R.I.P Doug"
This is where the gun was stuck at some point and the driver shot himself in the arm, if the biker had a gun he did not use it, maybe to moer the oke on the head, yes?
Very sad... RIP
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Manic on February 17, 2014, 08:17:19 am
idiot  >:D

http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/ (http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 17, 2014, 08:32:26 am
in a nutshell it all boils down to BAD DRIVING int his country in my opinion.
We all see it everyday, there are really bad drivers out there, its one thing being able to drive a car / ride a bike, but you have to be able to read traffic and use your mirrors and use your brain as well.

I regard myself as a good driver, and when I see the nonsense that  goes on out there it drives me insane, laws being broken, and most mainly because the drivers have no cooking clue what they are doing.

Bad driving causes road rage.
The SO and  I were almost taken out yesterday on Voortrekker Road at the top of the mountain in Pretoria, cos an arrogant box in hie BMW came racing past use cutting into our lane almost side swiping us from the left, the arrogant look on his face when we passed him at the robot just said to me that he thinks he is better than those around him and he saw nothing wrong with what he did, took a lot to stop myself from kicking his door, but the subject of this thread crossed my mind and I just rode on, leaving him far behind in his stupid little "make my penis bigger" cage.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: PierreO on February 17, 2014, 08:43:50 am
idiot  >:D

http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/ (http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/)

This poor bugger did not think before he opened his mouth . He has issued a apology but I think it's a late for that . His e-mail addy and cell phone number is all over social media and I have been told that the oke is now to scared to leave his house .
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 17, 2014, 08:45:48 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 17, 2014, 08:47:33 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.


 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mr Zog on February 17, 2014, 08:49:58 am
idiot  >:D

http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/ (http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/)

This poor plugger did not think before he opened his mouth . He has issued a apology but I think it's a late for that . His e-mail addy and cell phone number is all over social media and I have been told that the oke is now to scared to leave his house .

Eish.


From grootbek to stilbek...  :imaposer:

probably gonna be a stukkend-bek before too long...  :pot:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 17, 2014, 08:51:18 am
idiot  >:D

http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/ (http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/)

This poor bugger did not think before he opened his mouth . He has issued a apology but I think it's a late for that . His e-mail addy and cell phone number is all over social media and I have been told that the oke is now to scared to leave his house .

The sad thing is that he himself gave out his own e-mail address and cell phone number as part of his apology.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 17, 2014, 08:53:07 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.

That fails to explain the extremely violent acts of road rage in the US, Europe and specifically Australia, a country with draconian traffic laws applied with zero tolerance.

Road rage needs to be controlled within yourself, finding excuses for it it is like saying I beat my wife because she makes me do it by misbehaving.

Bullshit!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 17, 2014, 09:03:40 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.

That fails to explain the extremely violent acts of road rage in the US, Europe and specifically Australia, a country with draconian traffic laws applied with zero tolerance.

Road rage needs to be controlled within yourself, finding excuses for it it is like saying I beat my wife because she makes me do it by misbehaving.

Bullshit!

Agreed !

People are too quick to blame everyone else.

To add to Lord Knormoer of Western Cape - if you want to say that the lack of law enforcement can be blamed for road rage playing out like this then you might also not have to slip very far down that slope to start blaming women that get raped for dressing sexy...

All of us get mad - it is your level of maturity and 'civility' connected to a good set of 'what-is-right-and-wrong morals' that governs how you react to that and keep you from acting out on it.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 17, 2014, 09:12:30 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.

That fails to explain the extremely violent acts of road rage in the US, Europe and specifically Australia, a country with draconian traffic laws applied with zero tolerance.

Road rage needs to be controlled within yourself, finding excuses for it it is like saying I beat my wife because she makes me do it by misbehaving.

Bullshit!

Agreed !

People are too quick to blame everyone else.

To add to Lord Knormoer of Western Cape - if you want to say that the lack of law enforcement can be blamed for road rage playing out like this then you might also not have to slip very far down that slope to start blaming women that get raped for dressing sexy...

All of us get mad - it is your level of maturity and 'civility' connected to a good set of 'what-is-right-and-wrong morals' that governs how you react to that and keep you from acting out on it.



A survey was done a while ago to look at the connection between high crime rates and traffic lawlessness. They established that a country's lack of driver's discipline has a direct link to the level of serious crime. In other words, countries where people do not obey the laws of the road, tends to have higher crime rates.

I have to agree that our driving styles in this country are out of control. The taxis overtake you on the shoulder of the road, they stop where they want, people skipping red lights, not using indicators etc. Because of this, more and more people are starting to do it because the next guy is doing it with no consequences.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: spoedvark on February 17, 2014, 09:13:57 am
idiot  >:D

http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/ (http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/)

This poor bugger did not think before he opened his mouth . He has issued a apology but I think it's a late for that . His e-mail addy and cell phone number is all over social media and I have been told that the oke is now to scared to leave his house .

The sad thing is that he himself gave out his own e-mail address and cell phone number as part of his apology.



Watch out for this chop! He has given those out so that he can use messages and emails of hate towards him against the senders!

Forget this prick! Don't give him anymore publicity! Karma is a bitch and she has his number!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 17, 2014, 09:16:09 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.

That fails to explain the extremely violent acts of road rage in the US, Europe and specifically Australia, a country with draconian traffic laws applied with zero tolerance.

Road rage needs to be controlled within yourself, finding excuses for it it is like saying I beat my wife because she makes me do it by misbehaving.

Bullshit!

Agreed !

People are too quick to blame everyone else.

To add to Lord Knormoer of Western Cape - if you want to say that the lack of law enforcement can be blamed for road rage playing out like this then you might also not have to slip very far down that slope to start blaming women that get raped for dressing sexy...

All of us get mad - it is your level of maturity and 'civility' connected to a good set of 'what-is-right-and-wrong morals' that governs how you react to that and keep you from acting out on it.



A survey was done a while ago to look at the connection between high crime rates and traffic lawlessness. They established that a country's lack of driver's discipline has a direct link to the level of serious crime. In other words, countries where people do not obey the laws of the road, tends to have higher crime rates.

I have to agree that our driving styles in this country are out of control. The taxis overtake you on the shoulder of the road, they stop where they want, people skipping red lights, not using indicators etc. Because of this, more and more people are starting to do it because the next guy is doing it with no consequences.

That is valid - but people will be people and the level of maturity will have the same thing happen to 5 people where one of them will overreact while the others roll their eyes and continue.

But lawlessness breads lawlessness - no doubt about that.

 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 17, 2014, 09:38:20 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.

That fails to explain the extremely violent acts of road rage in the US, Europe and specifically Australia, a country with draconian traffic laws applied with zero tolerance.

Road rage needs to be controlled within yourself, finding excuses for it it is like saying I beat my wife because she makes me do it by misbehaving.

Bullshit!

Agreed !

People are too quick to blame everyone else.

To add to Lord Knormoer of Western Cape - if you want to say that the lack of law enforcement can be blamed for road rage playing out like this then you might also not have to slip very far down that slope to start blaming women that get raped for dressing sexy...

All of us get mad - it is your level of maturity and 'civility' connected to a good set of 'what-is-right-and-wrong morals' that governs how you react to that and keep you from acting out on it.



Ok maybe not inall cases, sometimes its just aggressive macho hot heads that agravate situations, but, being a calm person myself, I am only highlighting what infuriates me in traffic, this is what makes me want to slap someone around, bad driving and a total disregard for the law which i turn causes accidents, and yes I will put part of the blame on someone else, the cops, who stand by and do nothing even when its done right in front of them, should I blame myself? What have I done wrong? Who should we blame if we cant blame someone else?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 17, 2014, 09:46:27 am
Mikie, that is exactly what I mean by saying the cops should do their job and sort this out. If the people who drive/ride like that are given fines or have their licenses taken away and they then have to redo their licence before they can drive/ride again, a lot of people would cool thier attitudes on the roads.

That fails to explain the extremely violent acts of road rage in the US, Europe and specifically Australia, a country with draconian traffic laws applied with zero tolerance.

Road rage needs to be controlled within yourself, finding excuses for it it is like saying I beat my wife because she makes me do it by misbehaving.

Bullshit!

Agreed !

People are too quick to blame everyone else.

To add to Lord Knormoer of Western Cape - if you want to say that the lack of law enforcement can be blamed for road rage playing out like this then you might also not have to slip very far down that slope to start blaming women that get raped for dressing sexy...

All of us get mad - it is your level of maturity and 'civility' connected to a good set of 'what-is-right-and-wrong morals' that governs how you react to that and keep you from acting out on it.



Ok maybe not inall cases, sometimes its just aggressive macho hot heads that agravate situations, but, being a calm person myself, I am only highlighting what infuriates me in traffic, this is what makes me want to slap someone around, bad driving and a total disregard for the law which i turn causes accidents, and yes I will put part of the blame on someone else, the cops, who stand by and do nothing even when its done right in front of them, should I blame myself? What have I done wrong? Who should we blame if we cant blame someone else?

Don't misunderstand, bad driving and lack of prosecution is not your fault. What you own is how you react to it, that cannot be blamed on anyone but yourself. It remains a choice.

To prove the point just consider your different reaction when the perpetuator is a grey haired granny or a gorgeous young woman. You will choose not to get out and slap them around, then why not exercise the same restraint in other situations?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 17, 2014, 09:54:27 am
I am only highlighting what infuriates me in traffic, this is what makes me want to slap someone around

That makes total sense (and I am again agreeing with the lord here) - but even though you witness the lawlessness you don't act on that feeling of wanting to slap someone.

But you are right - all these things causes accidents and it aggravates me a lot that more and more people are having this 'if I can't beat them then I'll join them' attitude.
Which will inevitably lead to these types of things happening more and more.

:(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 17, 2014, 09:56:51 am
I think we're mostly on the same track of thought, and the root cause doescome back to law enforcememt, Sitting behind a bush taking photos of speeding vehicles is not law enforcement.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offside on February 17, 2014, 10:27:23 am
 
Have to say that if these two hot heads had left thier pistols at home, the situation would have pand out a lot differently.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Veldbrand on February 17, 2014, 10:27:35 am
Check this mindless kunt's kak comments over here: http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Bikers-arrive-at-court-for-road-rage-case-20140217 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Bikers-arrive-at-court-for-road-rage-case-20140217) by https://www.facebook.com/ravana.asura.5/about# (https://www.facebook.com/ravana.asura.5/about#)!/ravana.asura.5/info?collection_token=100007171301357%3A2327158227%3A8
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offshore on February 17, 2014, 10:35:31 am
WAC.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mr Zog on February 17, 2014, 10:35:48 am
Sounds like some motorists are a little upset with bikers. :peepwall:

First that journalist, now this dude.  :sip:

Mmmh. Maybe we need to sell the bikes and just get cars, if we want to live any longer  :deal:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gensetter on February 17, 2014, 10:50:55 am
Read the Suday Times report on the incident, the guy in the car was driving like a chop, weaving in the traffic. ( allegedly )
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Allegro on February 17, 2014, 10:53:16 am
Well from what I gather on news etc. It seems the motorist got moered in the face (by fist or weapon, never shot), and out of retaliation shot the biker in the back.
Farking coward I say.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: RobC on February 17, 2014, 11:56:52 am
This whole incident has highlighted the fact that a lot of road users out there are out to maim and kill other road users due to various reasons...

Ride with that in mind and just smile and wave when one does something stupid while you are on your bike... you will live longer that way. :sip:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 17, 2014, 11:58:48 am
This whole incident has highlighted the fact that a lot of road users out there are out to maim and kill other road users due to various reasons...

Ride with that in mind and just smile and wave when one does something stupid while you are on your bike... you will live longer that way. :sip:

Very sensible :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: RobC on February 17, 2014, 12:04:26 pm
Well from what I gather on news etc. It seems the motorist got moered in the face (by fist or weapon, never shot), and out of retaliation shot the biker in the back.
Farking coward I say.
From reading the media reports I would hazard a guess that he is going to need a good legal team... :sip:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Karel Kat on February 17, 2014, 12:09:29 pm
Sounds like some motorists are a little upset with bikers. :peepwall:

First that journalist, now this dude.  :sip:

Mmmh. Maybe we need to sell the bikes and just get cars, if we want to live any longer  :deal:

Please stop referring to the guy as a journalist. He's a motoring hack, a breed apart brought up on corporate freebies and press releases.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shark_za on February 17, 2014, 12:10:30 pm

In 1 scenario the driver is 100% guilty of murder, and in the other scenario it was self defence.


Never 100% when the biker instigated and got off his bike to escalate it.  Say 50-50 vs self defence.
What a prick, does he know what he has done to his wife and 4 year old daughter
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 17, 2014, 12:12:18 pm
Well from what I gather on news etc. It seems the motorist got moered in the face (by fist or weapon, never shot), and out of retaliation shot the biker in the back.
Farking coward I say.
From reading the media reports I would hazard a guess that he is going to need a good legal team... :sip:

It is never a simple argument, regardless whether it was used or not, if the rider had his gun unholstered, the driver can argue self defense. Eyewitness reports conflict so the fact that he allegedly turned away could also be interpreted by a shocked and recently abused driver as a move to draw/load before shooting.

Regardless of your alliance to either party, consider the state of mind of the driver after he was assaulted by a rider that allegedly also had a gun.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Veldbrand on February 17, 2014, 12:13:28 pm
Sounds like some motorists are a little upset with bikers. :peepwall:

First that journalist, now this dude.  :sip:

Mmmh. Maybe we need to sell the bikes and just get cars, if we want to live any longer  :deal:

Please stop referring to the guy as a journalist. He's a motoring hack, a breed apart brought up on corporate freebies and press releases.
You mean he used to be a motoring hack. :biggrin:
Now he's just a gamer.
It's called hide & seek uhmm... shiver...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Kerritz on February 17, 2014, 12:20:24 pm
En lyk asof daai grootbek hopelik sy gat gaan loep sien ook:

Paul Blinaux  February 17, 2014 at 9:52 am
This post was placed by ABR this morning at 0900 on their Website by Graham Erasmus. I have written extensively on this matter including to all the relevant parties at ABR, stating my disgust at their Editor Thagandra Naidoo. I claim no credence whatsoever to their reaction….but congratulate them on removing any reference to Naidoo from ABR.

“…….It was with deep shock and regret that I discovered that one of our editors, Thegandra Naidoo, had made intemperate comments on his Facebook page. Whilst these comments were made after office hours and by Mr Naidoo in his personal capacity, and apparently in the heat of the moment, I simply cannot condone such behaviour and Mr Naidoo has been placed on leave of absence, with immediate notice.

I shall be conducting a full investigation into this incident, and hope to come to a decision about Mr Naidoo’s future participation in Automotive Business Review (aBr) within a couple of days. I wish to make this decision in the cold light of day, rather than from my current emotional perspective, because I myself have a daughter and son-in-law who are bikers.

In the interim, I wish to apologise unreservedly to the family of Mr Pearce, a husband, a son, and a father who was needlessly killed in a road rage incident; the entire biking community of South Africa; the South African Guild of Motoring Journalists; our valued clients and customers and members of the public.

I also wish to make it quite clear that Automotive Business Review, and its entire staff complement, distance ourselves entirely and without reserve from the comments made by Mr Naidoo. aBr finds his comments repulsive, unprofessional, and extremely distressing. It is a clear sign of emotional immaturity, which shall be taken into consideration when considering Mr Naidoo’s future. The team at aBr wish to express our sincerest regret at the situation, and we shall endeavour to find ways to atone for the sins of Mr Naidoo.

Yours sincerely,

Graham Erasmus Publisher, Automotive Business Review Monday 17 February 2014 0900……….”

I sincerely hope that ABR have the wherewithal to remove Thegandra Naidoo permanently from his position as an Editor within their forum…….he may claim now that his outburst was merely in the heat of the moment, but that’s just trying to cover his sorry arse……he had a duty as a Motoring journalist to uphold the rights of every given road user! Naidoo failed dismally…….go away Thegandra Naaidoo…….you’re an embarrassment to your trade!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 17, 2014, 12:24:55 pm
And that's why you think twice before you type. What you post is there for the world to see and use.

I actually do internet based screening of new candidates which includes looking at Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and any other internet based social media site which may include forums.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: RobC on February 17, 2014, 12:27:12 pm
Well from what I gather on news etc. It seems the motorist got moered in the face (by fist or weapon, never shot), and out of retaliation shot the biker in the back.
Farking coward I say.
From reading the media reports I would hazard a guess that he is going to need a good legal team... :sip:

It is never a simple argument, regardless whether it was used or not, if the rider had his gun unholstered, the driver can argue self defense. Eyewitness reports conflict so the fact that he allegedly turned away could also be interpreted by a shocked and recently abused driver as a move to draw/load before shooting.

Regardless of your alliance to either party, consider the state of mind of the driver after he was assaulted by a rider that allegedly also had a gun.
He is still going to need a damn good legal team...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 17, 2014, 12:32:24 pm
Well from what I gather on news etc. It seems the motorist got moered in the face (by fist or weapon, never shot), and out of retaliation shot the biker in the back.
Farking coward I say.
From reading the media reports I would hazard a guess that he is going to need a good legal team... :sip:

It is never a simple argument, regardless whether it was used or not, if the rider had his gun unholstered, the driver can argue self defense. Eyewitness reports conflict so the fact that he allegedly turned away could also be interpreted by a shocked and recently abused driver as a move to draw/load before shooting.

Regardless of your alliance to either party, consider the state of mind of the driver after he was assaulted by a rider that allegedly also had a gun.
He is still going to need a damn good legal team...

True, and deep pockets...lot's of thinking time....etc
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mooch on February 17, 2014, 12:33:31 pm
What a waste!!!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 17, 2014, 01:44:29 pm

Please stop referring to the guy as a journalist. He's a motoring hack, a breed apart brought up on corporate freebies and press releases.

this is how the little twit describes himself:

I have a decade's experience as a journalist. I started out as a photographer and eventually worked as a sub editor for a leading automotive publication.
My industry experience spans the entire automotive industry which includes OEMs, aftermarket parts pool, and aftermarket vehicle modifications. I am currently completing my Journalism Honours at Wits University.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: mox on February 17, 2014, 02:05:19 pm
R5000 bail ! WTF!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 17, 2014, 02:08:25 pm
R5000 bail ! WTF!

the court was obviously convinced that the accused doesn't pose a risk to anyone else,  that he is not a flight risk,  and will attend the court case.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: growweblaar on February 17, 2014, 02:36:21 pm
Out of interest, please enlighten me: I assume that if someone points a gun at you, you can shoot first in self defense. Does the same apply for someone who'se got his gun in his hand (i.e. unholstered), but not pointing at you? What if the gun is still holstered, but you can clearly see he's reaching for it?

Just curious...

 :sip:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on February 17, 2014, 02:37:35 pm
The problem is that you can not shoot him in the back.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on February 17, 2014, 02:41:33 pm
Out of interest, please enlighten me: I assume that if someone points a gun at you, you can shoot first in self defense. Does the same apply for someone who'se got his gun in his hand (i.e. unholstered), but not pointing at you? What if the gun is still holstered, but you can clearly see he's reaching for it?

Just curious...

 :sip:

Dont think it will be applicable in this case as biker had already turned around to go back to his bike when he was shot. That is according to what I read here, so at the point that he was shot he did not present a threat to the motorist any more.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 17, 2014, 02:49:47 pm
Out of interest, please enlighten me: I assume that if someone points a gun at you, you can shoot first in self defense. Does the same apply for someone who'se got his gun in his hand (i.e. unholstered), but not pointing at you? What if the gun is still holstered, but you can clearly see he's reaching for it?

Just curious...

 :sip:

Also wondered about this.
Even when a gun is pointed at you I doubt you can just shoot. Think the circumstances dictate when you can shoot.
Example a friend at a party points it at someone (he should be shot in any case though) OR a security guard or officer in their duties.
But then again it might be justified to shoot a hijacker or thief even with their gun holstered.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: DjfLoYd on February 17, 2014, 02:56:47 pm
Out of interest, please enlighten me: I assume that if someone points a gun at you, you can shoot first in self defense. Does the same apply for someone who'se got his gun in his hand (i.e. unholstered), but not pointing at you? What if the gun is still holstered, but you can clearly see he's reaching for it?

Just curious...

 :sip:

It is my understanding that simply drawing a gun is an offence.
Approaching some one with a gun drawn is an opportunity for the other party to exercise self defence.
Shooting some one in the back however is a big no no especially if they no longer pose a threat to you.
So you can't shoot a burglar that is running away from you for example (or a hijacker driving away with your car for that matter).

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: bomskok on February 17, 2014, 03:20:37 pm
Out of interest, please enlighten me: I assume that if someone points a gun at you, you can shoot first in self defense. Does the same apply for someone who'se got his gun in his hand (i.e. unholstered), but not pointing at you? What if the gun is still holstered, but you can clearly see he's reaching for it?

Just curious...

 :sip:

It is my understanding that simply drawing a gun is an offence.
Approaching some one with a gun drawn is an opportunity for the other party to exercise self defence.
Shooting some one in the back however is a big no no especially if they no longer pose a threat to you.
So you can't shoot a burglar that is running away from you for example (or a hijacker driving away with your car for that matter).


Not correct as far as I recall. You may draw your weapon but you may not point it around willy nilly. This counts for SAPS as well as civilian. As mentioned in another thread in my previous life I used to wear the blue uniform.  :-[ I had to draw my firearm many times. If you're in a situation that could deteriorate quickly even the time taken to draw is too long. I was trained to draw and keep the gun resting on your hip, pointing towards the ground at a slight angle. Your not sticking it in anyone's face so cannot complain that you are pointing a firearm at them. This is more to do with self defence, not acting as aggressor of course.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: cruizaman on February 17, 2014, 03:27:33 pm
Quote
What I have learned since is that there is a very important distinction to be made between the event and your response thereto. And here I am not only talking about events that create a rage response, but also other emotions. It is important to understand that no event can dictate your response, it is not a linked entity, you are not bound to respond in a certain way. The event is an external influence, and as such you may not always be able to control it, but your response is internal, you can control it, You  get to choose your response.

Take for example people who commit suicide (no disrespect intended). People commit suicide because a partner left them. People commit suicide because they are going insolvent and cannot stand the embarrassment.  People commit suicide because they don’t want to go to jail. People commit suicide because they failed matric. People commit suicide because they think they cannot deal with life as a paraplegic. Yet there are many thousands of other people in the exact same circumstances that don’t commit suicide, they go on living good lives.

What is the difference then? Not the event, the event is the same. The only difference is what happens in your head. And like I learned in the cab of that truck, you can control what happens in your head. You can choose how upset you want to be. It does take practice, but it is a skill that can make your life immeasurably better.

The above was a quote from one of Metaljockey's ride reports. I was reminded thereof when I read earlier in this thread about people wanting to put the blame on external factors rather than on the persons involved directly. The response to any event (like attacking a motorist or shooting a biker) should be the attributed to the person directly, the blame should not be placed elsewhere.

My 2c ...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: max lange on February 17, 2014, 03:49:38 pm
If Masooa gets away with this I fear it will open the flood gates....to an already largely lawless society

very scary
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offshore on February 17, 2014, 04:10:34 pm
I read on News 24 page that this Ou has a previuous charge against him for Pointing a Firearm at someboby. His injury in his face was claimed to be a Bullet wound but at the Bail hearing testimony was heard that it was not a Bullet wound. It seems the Suspect it already lying under Oath on Day 1.
I often wonder why they put People under Oath in SA. To the overwhelming Majority is means Farkall.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dctr46 on February 17, 2014, 04:13:40 pm
Read all the postings on Facebook
And everyone rates Doug as a super guy

The shooter on the other hand has had a case before for pulling his gun on someone

So ja nee hope he sees his gat
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 17, 2014, 04:22:39 pm
Read all the postings on Facebook
And everyone rates Doug as a super guy

The shooter on the other hand has had a case before for pulling his gun on someone

So ja nee hope he sees his gat

I can't see the postings on FB...???
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rooies on February 17, 2014, 04:42:48 pm
Quote
What I have learned since is that there is a very important distinction to be made between the event and your response thereto. And here I am not only talking about events that create a rage response, but also other emotions. It is important to understand that no event can dictate your response, it is not a linked entity, you are not bound to respond in a certain way. The event is an external influence, and as such you may not always be able to control it, but your response is internal, you can control it, You  get to choose your response.

Take for example people who commit suicide (no disrespect intended). People commit suicide because a partner left them. People commit suicide because they are going insolvent and cannot stand the embarrassment.  People commit suicide because they don’t want to go to jail. People commit suicide because they failed matric. People commit suicide because they think they cannot deal with life as a paraplegic. Yet there are many thousands of other people in the exact same circumstances that don’t commit suicide, they go on living good lives.

What is the difference then? Not the event, the event is the same. The only difference is what happens in your head. And like I learned in the cab of that truck, you can control what happens in your head. You can choose how upset you want to be. It does take practice, but it is a skill that can make your life immeasurably better.

The above was a quote from one of Metaljockey's ride reports. I was reminded thereof when I read earlier in this thread about people wanting to put the blame on external factors rather than on the persons involved directly. The response to any event (like attacking a motorist or shooting a biker) should be the attributed to the person directly, the blame should not be placed elsewhere.

My 2c ...

Very well said, poetic even.  And so true.

For me the same feeling is evoked as with the whole OP disaster.  Lots of speculation, not sure about all the facts, lots of emotion, but regardless of all that, someone lost his/her life in a super-senseless fashion.  Very sad indeed.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: whitedelight on February 17, 2014, 04:57:47 pm
I hate posting on threads like these where there are so many different stories floating around. My only comment is that he would still be alive today if he did not stop.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 17, 2014, 05:03:01 pm
I agree that in the end the decision is yours, and the outcome you will have to live by.

What I meant with my earlier statement that I believe that Metro/ Traffic dept. also need to carry blame is the fact that within most of us there lies the capability to push into the front of a bankqueue, to skip a red light, to park illegally, to buy stolen goods, to even assault or kill someone.
The only thing preventing many people to simply live by their gutfelt actions, is the law.
When the law fades into the background, the rot surfaces.

So yes, I believe a big contributor to this type of scenario is that the law is fading, and the rot is coming to the fore because of that.

If no-one cuts off anyone, because of fear of the law, why would anyone get angry? They would'nt.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 17, 2014, 05:04:11 pm
Yes, there is a very important distinction to be made between an event and a person’s response thereto, as MJ says. I will even agree that no event can dictate a person’s response.
However, (and here the philosophers disagree somewhat) I believe that there are a few things that will pre-determine a person’s response to a given situation.
If you have been brought up since childhood to believe that a dog will bite you, chances are that you are going to be terrified of dogs. You are not suddenly going to walk into a yard full of Rotweillers feeling confident that they are going to be friendly. Not even if your best friend tells you they will be friendly.
If you have lived for the past twenty years in a society where lawlessness has caused everybody to take the law into their own hands, you are not going to suddenly believe that the cops will listen to you when you walk into the cop-shop and tell them the oke in the car tried to kill you, because you KNOW that they are going to show you the door.
If you see people disregard the rules of the road every day, every time you are one the road, you would be a madman to believe that the traffic police are doing their job. You become frustrated, and wish that someone would do something about the intolerable situation.
And so you form defences, ways to protect yourself, to stay sane and, most importantly, to stay alive. And one day, when another fucker cuts you off, your conditioning steps in. The red rage comes down, and road rage erupts.
And thus, the road rage we see today was caused by lawlessness, and by the traffic police not doing their work.
The response was not directly to the event, but to history. The response has been growing for months, probably years, maybe even a decade or two.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 17, 2014, 05:07:18 pm
I agree that in the end the decision is yours, and the outcome you will have to live by.

What I meant with my earlier statement that I believe that Metro/ Traffic dept. also need to carry blame is the fact that within most of us there lies the capability to push into the front of a bankqueue, to skip a red light, to park illegally, to buy stolen goods, to even assault or kill someone.
The only thing preventing many people to simply live by their gutfelt actions, is the law.
When the law fades into the background, the rot surfaces.

So yes, I believe a big contributor to this type of scenario is that the law is fading, and the rot is coming to the fore because of that.

If no-one cuts off anyone, because of fear of the law, why would anyone get angry? They would'nt.
Well said
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 17, 2014, 05:13:39 pm
Yes, there is a very important distinction to be made between an event and a person’s response thereto, as MJ says. I will even agree that no event can dictate a person’s response.
However, (and here the philosophers disagree somewhat) I believe that there are a few things that will pre-determine a person’s response to a given situation.
If you have been brought up since childhood to believe that a dog will bite you, chances are that you are going to be terrified of dogs. You are not suddenly going to walk into a yard full of Rotweillers feeling confident that they are going to be friendly. Not even if your best friend tells you they will be friendly.
If you have lived for the past twenty years in a society where lawlessness has caused everybody to take the law into their own hands, you are not going to suddenly believe that the cops will listen to you when you walk into the cop-shop and tell them the oke in the car tried to kill you, because you KNOW that they are going to show you the door.
If you see people disregard the rules of the road every day, every time you are one the road, you would be a madman to believe that the traffic police are doing their job. You become frustrated, and wish that someone would do something about the intolerable situation.
And so you form defences, ways to protect yourself, to stay sane and, most importantly, to stay alive. And one day, when another fucker cuts you off, your conditioning steps in. The red rage comes down, and road rage erupts.
And thus, the road rage we see today was caused by lawlessness, and by the traffic police not doing their work.
The response was not directly to the event, but to history. The response has been growing for months, probably years, maybe even a decade or two.


+1
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: arno on February 17, 2014, 05:28:52 pm
Yes, there is a very important distinction to be made between an event and a person’s response thereto, as MJ says. I will even agree that no event can dictate a person’s response.
However, (and here the philosophers disagree somewhat) I believe that there are a few things that will pre-determine a person’s response to a given situation.
If you have been brought up since childhood to believe that a dog will bite you, chances are that you are going to be terrified of dogs. You are not suddenly going to walk into a yard full of Rotweillers feeling confident that they are going to be friendly. Not even if your best friend tells you they will be friendly.
If you have lived for the past twenty years in a society where lawlessness has caused everybody to take the law into their own hands, you are not going to suddenly believe that the cops will listen to you when you walk into the cop-shop and tell them the oke in the car tried to kill you, because you KNOW that they are going to show you the door.
If you see people disregard the rules
of the road every day, every time you are one the road, you would be a madman to believe that the traffic police are doing their job. You become frustrated, and wish that someone would do something about the intolerable situation.
And so you form defences, ways to protect yourself, to stay sane and, most importantly, to stay alive. And one day, when another fucker cuts you off, your conditioning steps in. The red rage comes down, and road rage erupts.
And thus, the road rage we see today was caused by lawlessness, and by the traffic police not doing their work.
The response was not directly to the event, but to history. The response has been growing for months, probably years, maybe even a decade or two.


Alles is waar . Maar n mens moet seker ook nugter probeer dink oor wat jy wil bereik met jou reaksie op hierdie " toestand ". Gaan die vinger wat jy wys , die spieel wat jy afry , die duik in die deur , die konfrontasie met of sonder n wapen die betrokke persoon en die oortredende gemeenskap se gedrag verander ? Sekerlik nie.  So hoekom jou eie bloeddruk opjaag en soos in die geval die uiterste prys betaal ?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 17, 2014, 05:35:35 pm
Arno, ek hoor wat jy se, maar hindsight is mos 20/20
Ek het so week of twee terug ook so lekker road rage insident gehad. Ek is seker dat as daai insident vandag gebeur het, na hierdie insident van die skietery, sou ek heel anders opgetree het. Oftewel ek hoop so.
Soos ek se, hoe ons op die oomblik reageer, kom uit die verlede uit. Na hierdie insident het ek vanoggend heel anders gereageer op wat die ander mense op die pad doen.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: arno on February 17, 2014, 06:07:46 pm
Heeltemal reg.
Maar hoe jy gaan optree teenoor ander padgebruikers is n vooraf besluit . Net soos wat iemand vroeer gese het dat as jy vuurwapen dra moet jy vooraf besluit wat jy daarmee gaan doen of nie . Ek het jare en jare gelede besluit almal agter stuurwiele is ape en ek gaan nie kwaad word nie . So as iemand soos n aap ry is ek nie vebaas nie want ek verwag dit en daarom word ek nie kwaad nie ( partykeer so bietjie.... ) My vrou word kwaad vir my as taxis voor my inry en ek bly kalm. Dan se ek vir haar maar ek het verwag hy gaan voor my inry en ek was reg daarvoor.
Maar so jy se hindsight is perfect vision . Alles was so onnodig .
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: HB 9 on February 17, 2014, 06:08:47 pm
Yes, there is a very important distinction to be made between an event and a person’s response thereto, as MJ says. I will even agree that no event can dictate a person’s response.
However, (and here the philosophers disagree somewhat) I believe that there are a few things that will pre-determine a person’s response to a given situation.
If you have been brought up since childhood to believe that a dog will bite you, chances are that you are going to be terrified of dogs. You are not suddenly going to walk into a yard full of Rotweillers feeling confident that they are going to be friendly. Not even if your best friend tells you they will be friendly.
If you have lived for the past twenty years in a society where lawlessness has caused everybody to take the law into their own hands, you are not going to suddenly believe that the cops will listen to you when you walk into the cop-shop and tell them the oke in the car tried to kill you, because you KNOW that they are going to show you the door.
If you see people disregard the rules of the road every day, every time you are one the road, you would be a madman to believe that the traffic police are doing their job. You become frustrated, and wish that someone would do something about the intolerable situation.
And so you form defences, ways to protect yourself, to stay sane and, most importantly, to stay alive. And one day, when another fucker cuts you off, your conditioning steps in. The red rage comes down, and road rage erupts.
And thus, the road rage we see today was caused by lawlessness, and by the traffic police not doing their work.
The response was not directly to the event, but to history. The response has been growing for months, probably years, maybe even a decade or two.

 

I agree with you
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: masehare on February 17, 2014, 06:49:56 pm
Out of interest, please enlighten me: I assume that if someone points a gun at you, you can shoot first in self defense. Does the same apply for someone who'se got his gun in his hand (i.e. unholstered), but not pointing at you? What if the gun is still holstered, but you can clearly see he's reaching for it?

Just curious...

 :sip:

It is my understanding that simply drawing a gun is an offence.
Approaching some one with a gun drawn is an opportunity for the other party to exercise self defence.
Shooting some one in the back however is a big no no especially if they no longer pose a threat to you.
So you can't shoot a burglar that is running away from you for example (or a hijacker driving away with your car for that matter).


Not correct as far as I recall. You may draw your weapon but you may not point it around willy nilly. This counts for SAPS as well as civilian. As mentioned in another thread in my previous life I used to wear the blue uniform.  :-[ I had to draw my firearm many times. If you're in a situation that could deteriorate quickly even the time taken to draw is too long. I was trained to draw and keep the gun resting on your hip, pointing towards the ground at a slight angle. Your not sticking it in anyone's face so cannot complain that you are pointing a firearm at them. This is more to do with self defence, not acting as aggressor of course.


Jaaasssaaassss, come here to Tyger Valley center when the cash in transit vans pull up and Rambo + his friends get out and stand guard. Weapons out and fingers on the triggers. And they don't point the weapons to the floor - they are scanning the crowd hip fire position. Makes me feel unsafe...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 17, 2014, 07:08:37 pm
Heeltemal reg.
Maar hoe jy gaan optree teenoor ander padgebruikers is n vooraf besluit . Net soos wat iemand vroeer gese het dat as jy vuurwapen dra moet jy vooraf besluit wat jy daarmee gaan doen of nie . Ek het jare en jare gelede besluit almal agter stuurwiele is ape en ek gaan nie kwaad word nie . So as iemand soos n aap ry is ek nie vebaas nie want ek verwag dit en daarom word ek nie kwaad nie ( partykeer so bietjie.... ) My vrou word kwaad vir my as taxis voor my inry en ek bly kalm. Dan se ek vir haar maar ek het verwag hy gaan voor my inry en ek was reg daarvoor.
Maar so jy se hindsight is perfect vision . Alles was so onnodig .
:thumleft: :lol8: :lol8:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: growweblaar on February 17, 2014, 09:38:07 pm
Just for reference, SA bashers, do a Google search for road rage shooting usa (https://www.google.co.za/search?q=usa+road+rage+shooting&rlz=1C1CHRG_enZA468ZA468&oq=usa+road+rage+shooting&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.5492j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=road+rage+shooting+usa)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 17, 2014, 09:56:56 pm
Just for reference, SA bashers, do a Google search for road rage shooting usa (https://www.google.co.za/search?q=usa+road+rage+shooting&rlz=1C1CHRG_enZA468ZA468&oq=usa+road+rage+shooting&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.5492j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=road+rage+shooting+usa)

Exactly why I said that our current situation cannot be blamed for road rage!

Do the same for Australia, you'd be surprised at the result.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Humfree on February 18, 2014, 05:42:19 am
idiot  >:D

http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/ (http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/)

This poor bugger did not think before he opened his mouth . He has issued a apology but I think it's a late for that . His e-mail addy and cell phone number is all over social media and I have been told that the oke is now to scared to leave his house .

The sad thing is that he himself gave out his own e-mail address and cell phone number as part of his apology.



That is really being caught with your foot in your mouth!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gypsybaron on February 18, 2014, 06:07:41 am
According to news reports the cager is going to plead innocent. So, does this mean the biker shot himself in the back? Twice?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 18, 2014, 06:13:03 am
According to news reports the cager is going to plead innocent. So, does this mean the biker shot himself in the back? Twice?

are you serious?
you have to be joking,
it is not possible for an adult to be so ignorant of the law.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 18, 2014, 06:51:23 am

Please stop referring to the guy as a journalist. He's a motoring hack, a breed apart brought up on corporate freebies and press releases.

this is how the little twit describes himself:

I have a decade's experience as a journalist. I started out as a photographer and eventually worked as a sub editor for a leading automotive publication.
My industry experience spans the entire automotive industry which includes OEMs, aftermarket parts pool, and aftermarket vehicle modifications. I am currently completing my Journalism Honours at Wits University.

I understand the journalist made a stupid statement on facebook , probably after a few drinks  . And he was wrong and yes he caused trouble for his employers . But why this huge public outcry ? what's the difference when here on WD's people say very similar things. You'd swear the journalist killed someone himself .    ::)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 18, 2014, 06:56:52 am
I tend to agree, Rynet, the journalist simply put in words what 100's of thousands of motorists in SA feel about bikers.

His fault was that he went straight to the internet, instead of thinking it over a bit.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Pistonpete on February 18, 2014, 06:57:50 am

Please stop referring to the guy as a journalist. He's a motoring hack, a breed apart brought up on corporate freebies and press releases.

this is how the little twit describes himself:

I have a decade's experience as a journalist. I started out as a photographer and eventually worked as a sub editor for a leading automotive publication.
My industry experience spans the entire automotive industry which includes OEMs, aftermarket parts pool, and aftermarket vehicle modifications. I am currently completing my Journalism Honours at Wits University.

I understand the journalist made a stupid statement on facebook , probably after a few drinks  . And he was wrong and yes he caused trouble for his employers . But why this huge public outcry ? what's the difference when here on WD's people say very similar things. You'd swear the journalist killed someone himself .    ::)
Much like other nefarious groups such as estate agents, doctors, lawyers and politicians when feeling threatened the biking community also closes ranks  ;)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 18, 2014, 07:03:54 am
Quote
What I have learned since is that there is a very important distinction to be made between the event and your response thereto. And here I am not only talking about events that create a rage response, but also other emotions. It is important to understand that no event can dictate your response, it is not a linked entity, you are not bound to respond in a certain way. The event is an external influence, and as such you may not always be able to control it, but your response is internal, you can control it, You  get to choose your response.

Take for example people who commit suicide (no disrespect intended). People commit suicide because a partner left them. People commit suicide because they are going insolvent and cannot stand the embarrassment.  People commit suicide because they don’t want to go to jail. People commit suicide because they failed matric. People commit suicide because they think they cannot deal with life as a paraplegic. Yet there are many thousands of other people in the exact same circumstances that don’t commit suicide, they go on living good lives.

What is the difference then? Not the event, the event is the same. The only difference is what happens in your head. And like I learned in the cab of that truck, you can control what happens in your head. You can choose how upset you want to be. It does take practice, but it is a skill that can make your life immeasurably better.

The above was a quote from one of Metaljockey's ride reports. I was reminded thereof when I read earlier in this thread about people wanting to put the blame on external factors rather than on the persons involved directly. The response to any event (like attacking a motorist or shooting a biker) should be the attributed to the person directly, the blame should not be placed elsewhere.

My 2c ...

I agree with MJ , but what he refers to is when we are in a healthy frame of mind . It is irresponsible to judge suicide in terms of self discipline /choice . We humans have a overriding self preservation . For someone to kill themselves they must be in such severe distress ,that they override their basic instinct for survival . They are no longer in a "sane " frame of mind for want of a better word.  Most often from depression , where the sufferer goes into a no-man's  land of believing everyone hates them , their pain is so great they can't think rationally anymore. Or they are paranoid or suffer other mental disorders.  Or they are emotionally distressed teenagers or young adults. Or physically ill . Or drugged / drunk and their addict tells them impulsively to kill themselves . We cannot feel smug because we have not chosen that option . I would say that we have never been in that situation ourselves when we are no longer rational.

The mind is just an organ , which can get sick like the heart , but when it gets sick it can make decisions that are fatal.  Not fair to say suicides are just weak people. Well then so are people who get heart attacks or strokes.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 18, 2014, 07:17:21 am
Just for reference, SA bashers, do a Google search for road rage shooting usa (https://www.google.co.za/search?q=usa+road+rage+shooting&rlz=1C1CHRG_enZA468ZA468&oq=usa+road+rage+shooting&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.5492j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=road+rage+shooting+usa)


Thank you for that reference . I lived in in USA for 2 years  ,incl LA  when a spate of road killings happened .  I don't know if it was road rage so much as criminal in those cases, as young men would drive around in cars and shoot at other car drivers or pedestrians. They obviously planned most of these killing sprees.   .  And the cops in USA are feared and respected. Very different than in SA. We don't tend to respect authority here.  But we were fearful of motorists then , to the extent that I have never been in SA.  I am starting to suspect that perhaps it is a form of severe stress that leads to a mental break -down in those moments. 

From that article :
" road rage The term originated in the United States in 1987–1988 (specifically, from Newscasters at KTLA, a television station in Los Angeles), when a rash of freeway shootings occurred on the 405, 110, and 10 freeways in Los Angeles, California. These shooting sprees even spawned a response from the AAA Motor Club to its members on how to respond to drivers with road rage or aggressive manoeuvers and gestures.[1]"
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 18, 2014, 07:37:26 am
I just wanted to confess I am not sure.  On the one hand I do agree with Lord K , that people who regularly act aggressively and don't check it , can get into that mind-set and their own behaviour can escalate to the point where they can kill.

But when a case like Friday's happened it does confuse me, as I wonder why the people involved snapped when they had remained in control so many times before . Yes maybe it is just similar to a bar -fight gone wrong with riders who perhaps shouldn't have carried weapons.  But maybe it is a momentarily mental condition caused by the stress of our time . I don't know and await the true facts. But it is a grey area for me.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BiG DoM on February 18, 2014, 07:42:45 am
Ask Oscar  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vintage_Mania on February 18, 2014, 07:46:31 am
I don't think that it was a "snapped" case. I think the biker had done this before. Got aggrieved with a cager, stopped in traffic swinging his pistol around and just telling the cager where to get off. This time he did it to the wrong guy. A guy that was angry and probably had a "skrik" when the helmeted biker flashed his gun around. So he reacted, probably not within reason, but it is hard to put angry, scared reaction within a said frame work.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 18, 2014, 07:56:45 am
I don't think that it was a "snapped" case. I think the biker had done this before. Got aggrieved with a cager, stopped in traffic swinging his pistol around and just telling the cager where to get off. This time he did it to the wrong guy. A guy that was angry and probably had a "skrik" when the helmeted biker flashed his gun around. So he reacted, probably not within reason, but it is hard to put angry, scared reaction within a said frame work.



Ja,  perhaps you are right about the biker ...... as much as I hate to admit it  >:D ....anyway interesting defence , perhaps involves self -defence , fear , provocation ?, even the shooting in the back could have variable  ,perhaps the biker turned , so much is still speculated and maybe never known.

And haha Big Dom . :biggrin:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Karel Kat on February 18, 2014, 08:09:54 am
This is a good debate (apart from the occasional shout from the peanut gallery, ha Ganjora  ;) )
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 18, 2014, 08:13:09 am
This is a good debate (apart from the occasional shout from the peanut gallery, ha Ganjora  ;) )

a good debate?
what have you taken from it?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mr Zog on February 18, 2014, 08:15:55 am
I have refrained from giving my 2c worth on this subject, but having given it some thought I'll go for it now.

There has been a lot of speculation regarding the matter, and also a lot of "facts" thrown around. However many seem to think that anything they read or hear is "fact", when its not until the courts have given their verdict. And even then, even the courts do sometimes get it a bit wrong.

As I see it, the only "facts" regarding the biker are; 1) he was a biker. 2)There was an incident in the traffic and he stopped for a confrontation. 3)There was a confrontation. 4)He was shot and he died.

"Facts" regarding the motorist; 1)He was in a car. 2)There was an incident in the traffic and he stopped. 3)He was somehow injured. 4)He shot the biker.

Now all other is merely speculation. Based on what bystanders may have seen. And based on THEIR interpretation of the event. Their interpretation will have to be decided in court, and the facts removed from the emotion.

Only then will we have a much better idea of what caused this event, and only then should we make our opinions of who was the bigger d@@s in this matter.

and that's my personal 2c worth...  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Karel Kat on February 18, 2014, 08:17:32 am
This is a good debate (apart from the occasional shout from the peanut gallery, ha Ganjora  ;) )

a good debate?
what have you taken from it?


Lots of sensible inputs that made me think of my own rather short-tempered behaviour in traffic and the way I deal with it - but I do appreciate the comic relief from the gallery.  ;D
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 18, 2014, 08:23:14 am
Lots of sensible inputs that made me think of my own rather short-tempered behaviour in traffic and the way I deal with it - but I do appreciate the comic relief from the gallery.  ;D

if you have learned that in life when you look for shit,  that you usually find it,  you have learned a valuable lesson.
it should stand you in good stead for the rest of your life.    :thumleft:
another good one for you is:  don't be an arsehole,  be the happy friendly guy.   nobody minds helping the happy friendly guy,  and everyone tells the arsehole to fuck off.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mr. Python on February 18, 2014, 08:24:47 am
I have refrained from giving my 2c worth on this subject, but having given it some thought I'll go for it now.

There has been a lot of speculation regarding the matter, and also a lot of "facts" thrown around. However many seem to think that anything they read or hear is "fact", when its not until the courts have given their verdict. And even then, even the courts do sometimes get it a bit wrong.

As I see it, the only "facts" regarding the biker are; 1) he was a biker. 2)There was an incident in the traffic and he stopped for a confrontation. 3)There was a confrontation. 4)He was shot and he died.

"Facts" regarding the motorist; 1)He was in a car. 2)There was an incident in the traffic and he stopped. 3)He was somehow injured. 4)He shot the biker.

Now all other is merely speculation. Based on what bystanders may have seen. And based on THEIR interpretation of the event. Their interpretation will have to be decided in court, and the facts removed from the emotion.

Only then will we have a much better idea of what caused this event, and only then should we make our opinions of who was the bigger d@@s in this matter.

and that's my personal 2c worth...  :peepwall:

Now why ruin a good story with the facts  >:D
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Veldbrand on February 18, 2014, 08:31:40 am

Please stop referring to the guy as a journalist. He's a motoring hack, a breed apart brought up on corporate freebies and press releases.

this is how the little twit describes himself:

I have a decade's experience as a journalist. I started out as a photographer and eventually worked as a sub editor for a leading automotive publication.
My industry experience spans the entire automotive industry which includes OEMs, aftermarket parts pool, and aftermarket vehicle modifications. I am currently completing my Journalism Honours at Wits University.

I understand the journalist made a stupid statement on facebook , probably after a few drinks  . And he was wrong and yes he caused trouble for his employers . But why this huge public outcry ? what's the difference when here on WD's people say very similar things. You'd swear the journalist killed someone himself .    ::)
I can't believe I'm hearing this from you of all people!
The idiot used or even possibly abused his public platform to incite violence towards a certain way more vulnerable group of road users, possibly even killing them and you don't understand why there's a public outcry?
The difference is that here we are a very small closed community who are looking out for our own, he has no idea how big an audience he reached out there or how they would react to his stupid outburst.
Of course there are plenty car drivers out there who feel angry, frustrated or even hatred towards bikers but is it the right thing to preach this kind of action in our already emotionally loaded environment?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: desert dueler on February 18, 2014, 08:38:13 am
http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/road-rage-accused-explains-gets-bail-1.1648418#.UwL-toV_1IQ (http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/road-rage-accused-explains-gets-bail-1.1648418#.UwL-toV_1IQ)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 18, 2014, 08:58:49 am
Veldbrand as I understand it , it was his private facebook account : https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts) which has now probably been deleted. I don't agree what he said at all , just pointing out that people on this forum often talk about punching someone , or glad that someone is dead. You are right , I don't like it when people do it , but then the rule must apply through-out , not just when our special interest group is involved.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Veldbrand on February 18, 2014, 09:03:27 am
I believe he posted it on his Twatter account.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 18, 2014, 09:05:40 am
Veldbrand as I understand it , it was his private facebook account : https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts) which has now probably been deleted. I don't agree what he said at all , just pointing out that people on this forum often talk about punching someone , or glad that someone is dead. You are right , I don't like it when people do it , but then the rule must apply through-out , not just when our special interest group is involved.

I think there was a lot of talk about it, but you should know more about it, but any death threat on any platform is more than frowned upon.

Imagine our friend ever gets involved in an accident with a biker - what would happen if the biker's lawyer got hold of his facebook statement ?

Same goes for any public 'I'm going to kill you' threat/statement.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 18, 2014, 09:10:01 am
I believe he posted it on his Twatter account.

'Twas Facebook

http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/ (http://jozirides.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/motoring-journalist-wishes-bikers-break-their-necks/)

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on February 18, 2014, 09:21:37 am
R5000 bail, seems pretty low for the accused crime.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Rynet on February 18, 2014, 09:22:46 am
According to his employers : "Automotive Business Review statement received (17/02/2014):
It was with deep shock and regret that I discovered that one of our editors, Thegandra Naidoo, had made intemperate comments on his Facebook page. Whilst these comments were made after office hours and by Mr Naidoo in his personal capacity, and apparently in the heat of the moment, I simply cannot condone such behaviour and Mr Naidoo has been placed on leave of absence, with immediate notice"


His friends probably posted it on twitter and made it viral. But yes I am not condoning what he did at all. Just saying funny the outcry , when on this forum much of the same get said . And instead of only having say 500 friends ( just guessing) much of WD is public to anyone , and we have 15,000 members. I was also just stirring a bit to get a reaction.  :biggrin: I agree Eisbein we have to be very careful what we say on public forums. :thumleft:

And we have to be careful what thoughts we think , what a person thinks, he becomes.


But I also feel sorry for the journalist. I know that people don't always mean what they say , if that was the case Ganjora would have served two lifetimes already .  >:D :imaposer:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Allegro on February 18, 2014, 09:24:46 am
Yip FB account is gone. Hentie  >:(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: nobbybuster on February 18, 2014, 09:27:03 am
R5000 bail, seems pretty low for the accused crime.

Bail conditions are quite complex, and bail is not a punitive measure. It seems in this case the flight risk was very low, hence the low bail.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: cruizaman on February 18, 2014, 09:39:45 am
R5000 bail, seems pretty low for the accused crime.

Bail conditions are quite complex, and bail is not a punitive measure. It seems in this case the flight risk was very low, hence the low bail.

The issue of bail is mostly misunderstood, as the reporters who do court reporting also don't know what it is about and then create a public outcry with incorrect reporting. It is not a punitive measure, i.e. it is not there to punish the accused (who has not been convicted of anything yet). The only purpose of bail is to ensure that the accused will attend the trial and not disappear. The test is therefore whether he is a flight risk. If he does not appear for the trial he will forfeit the bail amount.

In determining whether he is a flight risk various factors are taken into account: The seriousness of the offence and the possible sentence; the personal circumstances of the accused (i.e. whether he has a stable job, permanent address, financial situation, family etc); whether he has a passport (which should usually be handed in) etc. If the flight risk is slight, the bail will be low. I take it that was the case here. Other factors are whether there is a risk that the accused will commit the same offence when out on bail, whether he will interfere with state witnesses, etc.

A court will take all these factors into account when determining the amount (and other conditions if applicable) of the bail.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 18, 2014, 10:19:13 am
Spoke to an ex girlfriend yesterday, she knew the biker, very good friends with her ex husband, she said she isnt surprised it happened to him, says he was very aggressive.

Being all Bravo and macho isnt worth it, swallow your pride and ride on. you will smile when youve left the perp stuck in traffic
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Allegro on February 18, 2014, 10:21:09 am
Just seen on Kyknet, the shooter claims self defence  ??? By shooting someone in the back  ??? I call it MURDER!!!!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shark_za on February 18, 2014, 10:28:50 am
I hope I get less than R5000 bail if I shoot a violent armed aggressor in self defence.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 18, 2014, 10:32:53 am
I hope I get less than R5000 bail if I shoot a violent armed aggressor in self defence.

absobloodylutely
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: DouglasN on February 18, 2014, 10:39:17 am

Bail conditions are quite complex, and bail is not a punitive measure. It seems in this case the flight risk was very low, hence the low bail.


The issue of bail is mostly misunderstood, as the reporters who do court reporting also don't know what it is about and then create a public outcry with incorrect reporting. It is not a punitive measure, i.e. it is not there to punish the accused (who has not been convicted of anything yet). The only purpose of bail is to ensure that the accused will attend the trial and not disappear. The test is therefore whether he is a flight risk. If he does not appear for the trial he will forfeit the bail amount.

In determining whether he is a flight risk various factors are taken into account: The seriousness of the offence and the possible sentence; the personal circumstances of the accused (i.e. whether he has a stable job, permanent address, financial situation, family etc); whether he has a passport (which should usually be handed in) etc. If the flight risk is slight, the bail will be low. I take it that was the case here. Other factors are whether there is a risk that the accused will commit the same offence when out on bail, whether he will interfere with state witnesses, etc.

A court will take all these factors into account when determining the amount (and other conditions if applicable) of the bail.

100%  but my question after following a number of trials, where friends were involved (victims) including murder, and the recent child murder cases, is... first appearance and bail is given, this seems quite unusual looking at previous cases.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Scooterbike on February 18, 2014, 10:56:33 am
I have been following this with interest.
People that know me will be surprised, but my wife can confirm (and she hates me for it) that my road rage is very easily triggered, by stupid f@ckers. My philosophy is simple - speed don't kill, stupidity does. Furthermore traffic rules are there for a reason. I just cant help myself when encountering a stupid c@nt on the road endangering others. (yes I have pulled people over in the past...)

HOWEVER, this morning I was traveling on the freeway @ x speed, when this SOB with his merc doing 80 changes lanes infront of me. As I got onto his bumper he then decides to brake for no reason. Normally that means war, but today, with this case in mind, I just past and carried on. Not sure if I should be proud of myself...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 18, 2014, 11:31:43 am
Veldbrand as I understand it , it was his private facebook account : https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts) which has now probably been deleted. I don't agree what he said at all , just pointing out that people on this forum often talk about punching someone , or glad that someone is dead. You are right , I don't like it when people do it , but then the rule must apply through-out , not just when our special interest group is involved.

I am with you on this one. The reaction to statements like this is not always the same. Had he said it at any other time nothing would probably have happened. Reactions are not rational but more emotional and often luck of the draw who see it and publicity it gets. Yes, many such statements on the forum and members don't even blink. Why? Their state of mind is probably the same as the person making the statement.

Facebook being private? Not in my view. Most people have many 'firiends' on facebook they don't even really know.  This guy being a journalist probably had many more unknown 'friends' than the rest.  How private can his facebook be if a newspaper can get hold of it.  He should be more vigilant about posting things like this in his field.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 18, 2014, 11:50:41 am
Veldbrand as I understand it , it was his private facebook account : https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/thegandra.naidoo?fref=ts) which has now probably been deleted. I don't agree what he said at all , just pointing out that people on this forum often talk about punching someone , or glad that someone is dead. You are right , I don't like it when people do it , but then the rule must apply through-out , not just when our special interest group is involved.

I am with you on this one. The reaction to statements like this is not always the same. Had he said it at any other time nothing would probably have happened. Reactions are not rational but more emotional and often luck of the draw who see it and publicity it gets. Yes, many such statements on the forum and members don't even blink. Why? Their state of mind is probably the same as the person making the statement.

Facebook being private? Not in my view. Most people have many 'firiends' on facebook they don't even really know.  This guy being a journalist probably had many more unknown 'friends' than the rest.  How private can his facebook be if a newspaper can get hold of it.  He should be more vigilant about posting things like this in his field.

Very important comment regarding Facebook. It is only private if you manage your privacy settings dilligently. I have found that with a name and/or e-mail address you can get to know everything about some people. Where they work, what clubs they belong to, who they are married to, theur kids names, where they live and the list goes on.

Go check your settings and never type anything that you are not comfortable publishing on the front page of the local paper.

Soem will remeber that even the victim of this sad event posted on Facebook about dishing out PK's for the world to see. The lawyers for the defence will be all over that by now. Who he associated with will be scrutinised and everyting they posted.

I am not sure the general public understands just how far reaching the implications are of what you do/say on internet.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: RedRo on February 18, 2014, 11:51:43 am
http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Kill-a-biker-row-Journo-out-in-the-cold-20140218 (http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Kill-a-biker-row-Journo-out-in-the-cold-20140218)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 18, 2014, 11:55:29 am
Not sure if I should be proud of myself...

IMO you should.

Nothing good comes from being (and more importantly acting) aggressive.


He probably didn't see you (issue number one) and then saw a bike tailgating him for (in his mind) no apparent reason and acted on that.

I used to get the moer in - especially in a situation like you described, but as from a couple of years ago I forced myself to 1stly be glad that nothing happened where it could and (more importantly) to rationalize it for myself in terms of 'He is an asshole, but in 2 minutes he'd still be the same asshole 50 meters down the road while I'll be a kilometer away already'.

And then I do a friendly wave as I go past him to add some more moerigheid on his part.


;D ;D
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 18, 2014, 12:00:56 pm
http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Kill-a-biker-row-Journo-out-in-the-cold-20140218 (http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Kill-a-biker-row-Journo-out-in-the-cold-20140218)

In his private capacity or not - a 'journalist' has his name attached to publications.

Especially if he's not freelance, but 'inhouse' to a publication/magazine/paper.

Very difficult to make a 'motoring related' statement in a private capacity and have it be separated from your professional capacity if your full time job is a motoring journalist at a single place.

Sad as it is, something like this isn't unexpected.

A couple of seconds and his career as it is now is ruined.
A couple of seconds more  for thinking it through could have saved it.

Sad and unnecessary

:(
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Operator on February 18, 2014, 12:03:40 pm
It would be interesting to know how far (meters/centimeters) the victim was from the shooter, as it would
also give indication of how big the threat was for the shooter.

Everyone is making assumptions that the victim was shot in the back......in a cowardly manner.
Has anybody thought that just maybe the guy saw he was going to be shot, and ducked and perhaps turned his back
on the precise moment the shooter pulled the trigger.

Let the shooter have his day in court..........





PS:  All the experience gained by watching all those CSi episodes, do have to count for something.  ;)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Operator on February 18, 2014, 12:10:53 pm
http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Kill-a-biker-row-Journo-out-in-the-cold-20140218 (http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Kill-a-biker-row-Journo-out-in-the-cold-20140218)

In his private capacity or not - a 'journalist' has his name attached to publications.

Especially if he's not freelance, but 'inhouse' to a publication/magazine/paper.

Very difficult to make a 'motoring related' statement in a private capacity and have it be separated from your professional capacity if your full time job is a motoring journalist at a single place.

Sad as it is, something like this isn't unexpected.

A couple of seconds and his career as it is now is ruined.
A couple of seconds more  for thinking it through could have saved it.

Sad and unnecessary

:(


A journalist needs objectivity to be a good journalist. 
This chap was lacking objectivity.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 18, 2014, 12:24:32 pm
It would be interesting to know how far (meters/centimeters) the victim was from the shooter, as it would
also give indication of how big the thread was for the shooter.

Everyone is making assumptions that the victim was shot in the back......in a cowardly manner.
Has anybody thought that just maybe the guy saw he was going to be shot, and ducked and perhaps turned his back
on the precise moment the shooter pulled the trigger.

Let the shooter have his day in court..........





PS:  All the experience gained by watching all those CSi episodes, do have to count for something.  ;)
indeed good point. some oke draws his gun whiplashes another oke who then reacts. shot in the stomach not the back. we know the biker carries a gun so we also know on that basis he knows or fears violence and was the aggressor in the situation. I would say he got shot straight after hitting the cage driver in the arm and stomach from the front. I'm sure if he got shot cowardly as some are suggesting the reports would have said shot in the back.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Firecoast on February 18, 2014, 02:18:22 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: shark_za on February 18, 2014, 02:44:16 pm
it would also give indication of how big the thread was for the shooter.


16 pages so far
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 18, 2014, 02:46:03 pm
the story of the pointing of a firearm,  from a previous victim of the shooter (http://citizen.co.za/129358/road-rage-killer-gets-r5-000-bail/ (http://citizen.co.za/129358/road-rage-killer-gets-r5-000-bail/)):

Dear Editor \ readers In re of Mr Masooa Murder case I would like to bring to your notice that I am the man Mr Masooa pointed a firearm to sometimes in 2008, as reported i your &pm news. MY STORY He represented me in a fraud case instilled against me by the Pretoria commercial crime court in 2007. Mr Masooa went to my house during the trial of the case to lie to my wife to give her all our property for safe keeping, against the rumour that he started of the impending forfeiting of my property and assets to the Assets forfeiture unit. Unknown to my wife, couple with the recovery she was going through from an illness and the way he presented the case to her, she allowed her to take everything only leaving the bed she sleeps with . All this happened while i was at New lock jail because of his inability to get me bail, which I later learnt was all along pre- planned by him in order to cough out lots of money from me. On hearing this i promptly disengage him from my case and demanded the return of my properties worth over R70,000.00 at that time, from him. He promised to return them back, but he didn’t . Three months after he took my properties , i was finally realised and phoned him to bring my properties back, he asked me to pay into his account some amout for him to get a truck to bring them back. I promptly paid the money, but still he didn’t send them. Few weeks after i went to see a lawyer friend at Hartfield magistrate court, there i saw him. I approached him and demand my properties. He started being evasive and trying to sneak out of the court environment. I walked after him and ask the same about my properties again. Surprisingly he dashed to his car and brought a gun and in full view of his colleagues my lawyer friend, some court officials, policemen and security guards, he pointed a gun at me and promised to shoot me if i move any further. This resulted i a shouting match between him and his legal colleagues. I was dumb folded because i wasn’t expecting it. I laid a charge against him immediately and the case was called for at Pretoria Magistrate court. But to my amazement the case was struck off because reasons I wasn’t brief of. I went to the Chief Magistrate of the court to protest, but she referred me back to the investigating officer. Tired from being send from pillar to post, I then went to the law society to lodge a complaint against him. They tried to get in touch with him but they couldn’t because he gave them wrong address and contact numbers. So they politely told me that they couldn’t do anything about it because of his non availability. With that as my last hope and because of lack of funds to take it further i rest everything with God. Conclusion I was not surprised to watch your late news to see that he has committed another crime. He is someone who is not fit to be in the profession he is practising. I can’t count how many people he has duped one way or the other. The one that readily comes to my mind is a man that was locked, who unsuspectingly gave him his bank card and pin number. Mr Massooa cleared everything in his account without even showing up in court for him. He is a criminal and should be treated as such. Yours faithfully, A B Kazeem
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: mox on February 18, 2014, 02:57:13 pm
Well I hope Massooa does not kill anyone else between now and his incarceration. Case postponed till April 25.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 18, 2014, 03:04:09 pm
Well I hope Massooa does not kill anyone else between now and his incarceration. Case postponed till April 25.

my prediction:  worse case scenario,  culpable homicide,  and a fine - no jail time.   
maybe we should start a betting thread on the judgement?
get a nice healthy pool,  and split it between the correct predictors.
R100 to enter.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Cracker on February 18, 2014, 03:10:54 pm
Wonder what Kazeem looked like when he was dumb folded ................  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Firecoast on February 18, 2014, 03:12:45 pm
Wonder what Kazeem looked like when he was dumb folded ................  :biggrin:

Ja, also picked up that one... Wooly would have a field day with that long post!  :lol8:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 18, 2014, 03:22:26 pm
Just saw an interesting incident on the road that made me wonder. Person A made an illegal u-turn at a robot, skipping a red light to do so. In the meantime there is a green arrow allowing the vehicle to the left of me to turn. This person duly turns, but now the lane is blocked by Person A doing the u-turn, because that persons car couldn’t do such a tight turn.
Result – one big fuck-up.
Now, the guy to my left who had the green arrow and is now stuck in the middle of the crossing is a taxi, full of passengers. He doesn’t even flinch, he just sits there waiting for the other car to do a fifty point turn and get out of his way. Of course by now the green arrow had disappeared, and everybody is on their hooters wanting the taxi to clear off.
So now I’m thinking, maybe the Taxi Associations can teach us something about road rage. Can you imagine what those taxi drivers must go through every day, what with all those people off all colours and creeds who think they own the roads, ten million foot soldiers walking willy-nilly in the taxi rank and, to top it all, thousands of taxis to deal with.
I would have died from two gunshots to the back long ago if I’d been a taxi driver.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 18, 2014, 03:28:01 pm
I made a conscious decision some years ago to be considerate towards Taxi's, and my reasoning is that while I am mostly alone in my car , the Taxi is transporting several people.

He is more important as a mass people mover than me as a selfish single driver.

And of course, what are you to do after pulling a Taxi over in anger, and 5 guys get out? It is a lose-lose situation for you.

Respect, patience and consideration.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 18, 2014, 03:30:52 pm
I made a conscious decision some years ago to be considerate towards Taxi's, and my reasoning is that while I am mostly alone in my car , the Taxi is transporting several people.

He is more important as a mass people mover than me as a selfish single driver.

And of course, what are you to do after pulling a Taxi over in anger, and 5 guys get out? It is a lose-lose situation for you.

Respect, patience and consideration.

Jislaaik Daan - I don't know what the hell is going on, but I find myself agreeing more and more with you these days.

;D ;D ;D ;D

(And don't say its because I'm riding a XT now - I've been back on the GS now for 3 weeks due to the XT awaiting its bet in the Helderberg Yamaha Hospital)

:biggrin:

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 18, 2014, 03:34:54 pm
I made a conscious decision some years ago to be considerate towards Taxi's, and my reasoning is that while I am mostly alone in my car , the Taxi is transporting several people.

He is more important as a mass people mover than me as a selfish single driver.

And of course, what are you to do after pulling a Taxi over in anger, and 5 guys get out? It is a lose-lose situation for you.

Respect, patience and consideration.

Jislaaik Daan - I don't know what the hell is going on, but I find myself agreeing more and more with you these days.

;D ;D ;D ;D

(And don't say its because I'm riding a XT now - I've been back on the GS now for 3 weeks due to the XT awaiting its bet in the Helderberg Yamaha Hospital)

:biggrin:



The Taxi-tolerant decision was more to avoid very uncomfortable stand-offs, but it has changed lots of things, including Taxi behaviour as soon as they see that you give them gaps.
One must know where to back off.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LouisXander on February 18, 2014, 03:39:12 pm
Nee oom Daantjie, niks so lekker soos n Mexican Stand off nie!!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Motties on February 18, 2014, 03:52:32 pm
I made a conscious decision some years ago to be considerate towards Taxi's, and my reasoning is that while I am mostly alone in my car , the Taxi is transporting several people.

He is more important as a mass people mover than me as a selfish single driver.

And of course, what are you to do after pulling a Taxi over in anger, and 5 guys get out? It is a lose-lose situation for you.

Respect, patience and consideration.
100% - Sien dit ook so. As elke ou in daai taxi met sy eie kar op die pad was, dan was dit 'n baie groter f0k0p :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: arno on February 18, 2014, 04:06:56 pm
R5000 bail, seems pretty low for the accused crime.

Bail conditions are quite complex, and bail is not a punitive measure. It seems in this case the flight risk was very low, hence the low bail.

The issue of bail is mostly misunderstood, as the reporters who do court reporting also don't know what it is about and then create a public outcry with incorrect reporting. It is not a punitive measure, i.e. it is not there to punish the accused (who has not been convicted of anything yet). The only purpose of bail is to ensure that the accused will attend the trial and not disappear. The test is therefore whether he is a flight risk. If he does not appear for the trial he will forfeit the bail amount.

In determining whether he is a flight risk various factors are taken into account: The seriousness of the offence and the possible sentence; the personal circumstances of the accused (i.e. whether he has a stable job, permanent address, financial situation, family etc); whether he has a passport (which should usually be handed in) etc. If the flight risk is slight, the bail will be low. I take it that was the case here. Other factors are whether there is a risk that the accused will commit the same offence when out on bail, whether he will interfere with state witnesses, etc.

A court will take all these factors into account when determining the amount (and other conditions if applicable) of the bail.

Dankie dit was hoog tyd dat dit behoorlik verduidelik word .
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dish on February 18, 2014, 04:44:15 pm
AB Kazeem - Fraud case instigated by Pretoria Commercial Crimes Unit??? " house during the trial of the case to lie to my wife to give her all our property for safe keeping, against the rumour that he started of the impending forfeiting of my property and assets to the Assets forfeiture unit. Unknown to my wife, couple with the recovery she was going through from an illness and the way he presented the case to her, she allowed her to take everything only leaving the bed she sleeps with . All this happened while i was at New lock jail because of his inability to get me bail, which I later learnt was all along pre- planned by him in order to cough out lots of money from me. "\\

Yeah that's sounds believable..??? not withstanding he was dumbfolded??? just leave the last part of the word off mate... that's what you were.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 18, 2014, 04:57:31 pm
Remember, he was probably trying to communicate in a language that was not his first language, maybe not even his second language.
Some of the English speaking people on this forum will not even be able to translate this message I'm typing into any other language, not even Afrikaans, so don't be too harsh on the guy.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dish on February 18, 2014, 05:04:12 pm
Suppose......

ah well - what a crock of shit this entire episode... however seems some good has come from it... seems we've all thought twice lately about reacting / over reacting... maybe that's the incident we needed to make us think again..

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 18, 2014, 05:06:04 pm
Remember, he was probably trying to communicate in a language that was not his first language, maybe not even his second language.
Some of the English speaking people on this forum will not even be able to translate this message I'm typing into any other language, not even Afrikaans, so don't be too harsh on the guy.


I think it is more directed at whether or not his story is credible. The fact that he was in jail, investigated and so forth...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Orangeswifty on February 18, 2014, 05:36:38 pm
Remember, he was probably trying to communicate in a language that was not his first language, maybe not even his second language.
Some of the English speaking people on this forum will not even be able to translate this message I'm typing into any other language, not even Afrikaans, so don't be too harsh on the guy.


I think it is more directed at whether or not his story is credible. The fact that he was in jail, investigated and so forth...
in his adjudication on whether the guy is guilty of murder the magistrate will only look at factors concerning the incident on the day.
ie - whether excessive force was used
   - whether there was eminent life threatening danger triggering the shooting
   - whether the action could have been avoided without the degree of violence etc.......
The extenuating cercumstances - either aggravating or not will determine the degree of sentence if found guilty

I am afraid that in this instance whether we like it or not the criminal procedures act will determine the procedures with lawfull death.
.................and it sounds as if the biker in this instance was the aggressor.
Walking away and avoiding confrontation in these instances is most certainly the test of the fair man 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Helenus on February 18, 2014, 07:05:58 pm
I made a conscious decision some years ago to be considerate towards Taxi's, and my reasoning is that while I am mostly alone in my car , the Taxi is transporting several people.

He is more important as a mass people mover than me as a selfish single driver.

And of course, what are you to do after pulling a Taxi over in anger, and 5 guys get out? It is a lose-lose situation for you.

Respect, patience and consideration.

Well put, thanks for the reminder. I am trying my best to do as you do. My wife always say just remember the passengers in that taxi can be Francina, our domestic, David our garden guy and our colleagues and friends at work.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Pistonpete on February 18, 2014, 07:18:29 pm
Well I hope Massooa does not kill anyone else between now and his incarceration. Case postponed till April 25.

my prediction:  worse case scenario,  culpable homicide,  and a fine - no jail time.   
maybe we should start a betting thread on the judgement?
get a nice healthy pool,  and split it between the correct predictors.
R100 to enter.
I'm not a gambling man...but i like the way you think!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 18, 2014, 07:36:23 pm
I'm not a gambling man...but i like the way you think!

you in for a R100?
make your prediction.
maybe what we can do is 50% goes to the family,  25% to the forum,  and 25% towards a WD gathering in the area of the winner?
fuckit,  it's a good cause,  maybe R200 to enter?
some good can come out of a horrible thing...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Pistonpete on February 18, 2014, 08:06:50 pm
I'm not a gambling man...but i like the way you think!

you in for a R100?
make your prediction.
maybe what we can do is 50% goes to the family,  25% to the forum,  and 25% towards a WD gathering in the area of the winner?
fuckit,  it's a good cause,  maybe R200 to enter?
some good can come out of a horrible thing...
This is not like you.
There's no option to run with the money or just drink it out....  ;D
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on February 18, 2014, 08:12:15 pm
and the plot thickens. guess you just can't jump of your bike and threaten someone with a gun anymore.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Cheeky on February 18, 2014, 08:44:22 pm
Just saw an interesting incident on the road that made me wonder. Person A made an illegal u-turn at a robot, skipping a red light to do so. In the meantime there is a green arrow allowing the vehicle to the left of me to turn. This person duly turns, but now the lane is blocked by Person A doing the u-turn, because that persons car couldn’t do such a tight turn.
Result – one big fuck-up.
Now, the guy to my left who had the green arrow and is now stuck in the middle of the crossing is a taxi, full of passengers. He doesn’t even flinch, he just sits there waiting for the other car to do a fifty point turn and get out of his way. Of course by now the green arrow had disappeared, and everybody is on their hooters wanting the taxi to clear off.
So now I’m thinking, maybe the Taxi Associations can teach us something about road rage. Can you imagine what those taxi drivers must go through every day, what with all those people off all colours and creeds who think they own the roads, ten million foot soldiers walking willy-nilly in the taxi rank and, to top it all, thousands of taxis to deal with.
I would have died from two gunshots to the back long ago if I’d been a taxi driver.


Yes during a recent visit to Europe we stayed in a small village with narrow streets. So when the bus stopped to pick up or drop off passengers, everybody behind him waited patiently. No hooting & shouting & raging. Everybody sees that the ppl are getting off and on and will ony take a minute, if that.

As per the example above the taxi driver was courteous and let an idiot sort out his maneuver. Everbody can see thius happening and that the 1st idiot is only gonna take a minute. Why the rage. We have become way to intolerant n the road. Believe me, I know / been there. But after my trip to Europe, I just chilled the fcuk out....
Title: Re: Re: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 18, 2014, 08:50:06 pm
Just saw an interesting incident on the road that made me wonder. Person A made an illegal u-turn at a robot, skipping a red light to do so. In the meantime there is a green arrow allowing the vehicle to the left of me to turn. This person duly turns, but now the lane is blocked by Person A doing the u-turn, because that persons car couldn’t do such a tight turn.
Result – one big fuck-up.
Now, the guy to my left who had the green arrow and is now stuck in the middle of the crossing is a taxi, full of passengers. He doesn’t even flinch, he just sits there waiting for the other car to do a fifty point turn and get out of his way. Of course by now the green arrow had disappeared, and everybody is on their hooters wanting the taxi to clear off.
So now I’m thinking, maybe the Taxi Associations can teach us something about road rage. Can you imagine what those taxi drivers must go through every day, what with all those people off all colours and creeds who think they own the roads, ten million foot soldiers walking willy-nilly in the taxi rank and, to top it all, thousands of taxis to deal with.
I would have died from two gunshots to the back long ago if I’d been a taxi driver.


Yes during a recent visit to Europe we stayed in a small village with narrow streets. So when the bus stopped to pick up or drop off passengers, everybody behind him waited patiently. No hooting & shouting & raging. Everybody sees that the ppl are getting off and on and will ony take a minute, if that.

As per the example above the taxi driver was courteous and let an idiot sort out his maneuver. Everbody can see thius happening and that the 1st idiot is only gonna take a minute. Why the rage. We have become way to intolerant n the road. Believe me, I know / been there. But after my trip to Europe, I just chilled the fcuk out....
What f...ing rage are you f....ing on about?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: superten on February 18, 2014, 09:23:48 pm
Just saw an interesting incident on the road that made me wonder. Person A made an illegal u-turn at a robot, skipping a red light to do so. In the meantime there is a green arrow allowing the vehicle to the left of me to turn. This person duly turns, but now the lane is blocked by Person A doing the u-turn, because that persons car couldn’t do such a tight turn.
Result – one big fuck-up.
Now, the guy to my left who had the green arrow and is now stuck in the middle of the crossing is a taxi, full of passengers. He doesn’t even flinch, he just sits there waiting for the other car to do a fifty point turn and get out of his way. Of course by now the green arrow had disappeared, and everybody is on their hooters wanting the taxi to clear off.
So now I’m thinking, maybe the Taxi Associations can teach us something about road rage. Can you imagine what those taxi drivers must go through every day, what with all those people off all colours and creeds who think they own the roads, ten million foot soldiers walking willy-nilly in the taxi rank and, to top it all, thousands of taxis to deal with.
I would have died from two gunshots to the back long ago if I’d been a taxi driver.


Yes during a recent visit to Europe we stayed in a small village with narrow streets. So when the bus stopped to pick up or drop off passengers, everybody behind him waited patiently. No hooting & shouting & raging. Everybody sees that the ppl are getting off and on and will ony take a minute, if that.

As per the example above the taxi driver was courteous and let an idiot sort out his maneuver. Everbody can see thius happening and that the 1st idiot is only gonna take a minute. Why the rage. We have become way to intolerant n the road. Believe me, I know / been there. But after my trip to Europe, I just chilled the fcuk out....


Pussies
Title: Re: Re: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 18, 2014, 09:30:28 pm
What f...ing rage are you f....ing on about?
??? ::)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: bmad on February 18, 2014, 11:19:44 pm

Respect, patience and consideration.


if only. This world would be such an awesome place.

Just this morning my car was broken into at the school while i was dropping off my kid.
Where is the respect for other peoples things...
Title: Re: Re: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 19, 2014, 07:37:34 am
What f...ing rage are you f....ing on about?
??? ::)

I think he is being facetious
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 19, 2014, 07:38:38 am
My prediction on this?
The shooter gets off scott free after the case is thrown out of court

Yes thats right, I have no in the faith justice system
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 19, 2014, 07:41:13 am
My prediction on this?
The shooter gets off scott free after the case is thrown out of court

R200 in the kitty?
we should start a thread dedicated to predicted outcomes.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 19, 2014, 07:56:51 am
My prediction on this?
The shooter gets off scott free after the case is thrown out of court

R200 in the kitty?
we should start a thread dedicated to predicted outcomes.

I thought it was R100?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 19, 2014, 08:03:10 am
I thought it was R100?

don't be a miser - money's going to a good cause...
thinking maybe (as my brother's kids attend the same school) that we go directly to the school,  and pay towards the kid's school fees?
just an idea though,  maybe give it directly to the widow?
let's start a prediction thread...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 19, 2014, 08:05:48 am
I thought it was R100?

don't be a miser - money's going to a good cause...
thinking maybe (as my brother's kids attend the same school) that we go directly to the school,  and pay towards the kid's school fees?
just an idea though,  maybe give it directly to the widow?
let's start a prediction thread...

 :laughing4:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 19, 2014, 08:10:07 am
ok,  who's going to start the thread?
needs to be someone who's perceived as 'normal' and 'responsible',  who doesn't smoke 'mountain cabbage' (very seldom),
which automatically disqualifies me,  J-dog,  KiLRoy,  bundu,  punisher and a coupla others...
who's gonna do it?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Veldbrand on February 19, 2014, 08:16:05 am
Nix!
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mikie on February 19, 2014, 08:17:18 am
ok,  who's going to start the thread?
needs to be someone who's perceived as 'normal' and 'responsible',  who doesn't smoke 'mountain cabbage' (very seldom),
which automatically disqualifies me,  J-dog,  KiLRoy,  bundu,  punisher and a coupla others...
who's gonna do it?

Raka??  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 19, 2014, 08:24:06 am
Be careful to pick a side here based purely on who is involved, motorcyclist VS dreaded taxi driver.

I would like to think that I have the right to defend myself against an aggressor wielding a gun, no matter what traffic mistake I made.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Battlestar on February 19, 2014, 09:09:52 am
Be careful to pick a side here based purely on who is involved, motorcyclist VS dreaded taxi driver.

I would like to think that I have the right to defend myself against an aggressor wielding a gun, no matter what traffic mistake I made.

+1
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: punisher on February 19, 2014, 11:22:58 am
ok,  who's going to start the thread?
needs to be someone who's perceived as 'normal' and 'responsible',  who doesn't smoke 'mountain cabbage' (very seldom),
which automatically disqualifies me,  J-dog,  KiLRoy,  bundu,  punisher and a coupla others...
who's gonna do it?


"Responsible" "normal".  ME !!!! 
Shurrup and stop hogging the spliff man
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dogboxelectric on February 19, 2014, 04:54:47 pm
"Lawyer" was disbarred in 2009.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 19, 2014, 05:37:17 pm
"Lawyer" was disbarred in 2009.

Source?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 19, 2014, 05:46:41 pm
"Lawyer" was disbarred in 2009.

Source?


http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-02-18-skieter-al-jare-geskors-van-prokureursorde (http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-02-18-skieter-al-jare-geskors-van-prokureursorde)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Operator on February 19, 2014, 06:10:44 pm
Be careful to pick a side here based purely on who is involved, motorcyclist VS dreaded taxi driver.

I would like to think that I have the right to defend myself against an aggressor wielding a gun, no matter what traffic mistake I made.


Exactly my thought........... ;)  :thumleft:

That is why I made this post yesterday, but it looks like everybody already made up their minds that the motorist is totally
guilty.
I think that my theory is plausible.
The fact that the shooter was debarred as lawyer does not make him guilty.
This happened in peak hour traffic. There will be many eye witnesses.

It would be interesting to know how far (meters/centimeters) the victim was from the shooter, as it would
also give indication of how big the threat was for the shooter.

Everyone is making assumptions that the victim was shot in the back......in a cowardly manner.
Has anybody thought that just maybe the guy saw he was going to be shot, and ducked and perhaps turned his back
on the precise moment the shooter pulled the trigger.

Let the shooter have his day in court..........

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: punisher on February 19, 2014, 06:26:58 pm
Be careful to pick a side here based purely on who is involved, motorcyclist VS dreaded taxi driver.

I would like to think that I have the right to defend myself against an aggressor wielding a gun, no matter what traffic mistake I made.


Exactly my thought........... ;)  :thumleft:

That is why I made this post yesterday, but it looks like everybody already made up their minds that the motorist is totally
guilty.
I think that my theory is plausible.
The fact that the shooter was debarred as lawyer does not make him guilty.
This happened in peak hour traffic. There will be many eye witnesses.

It would be interesting to know how far (meters/centimeters) the victim was from the shooter, as it would
also give indication of how big the threat was for the shooter.

Everyone is making assumptions that the victim was shot in the back......in a cowardly manner.
Has anybody thought that just maybe the guy saw he was going to be shot, and ducked and perhaps turned his back
on the precise moment the shooter pulled the trigger.

Let the shooter have his day in court..........



 has there been any credible statement that the bike rider had his gun drawn , ???? 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Derik on February 19, 2014, 06:30:30 pm
Also my question, why did he handover both guns to the police? Tampering with crime scene? Did he remove the gun from the dead mans holster or hand.........
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 19, 2014, 08:40:47 pm
"Lawyer" was disbarred in 2009.

Source?


http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-02-18-skieter-al-jare-geskors-van-prokureursorde (http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-02-18-skieter-al-jare-geskors-van-prokureursorde)
Thanks.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offshore on February 19, 2014, 08:46:21 pm
Also my question, why did he handover both guns to the police? Tampering with crime scene? Did he remove the gun from the dead mans holster or hand.........
Very good Point.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 19, 2014, 09:46:57 pm
Also my question, why did he handover both guns to the police?

Standard procedure when someone died by gun shot as far as I know



Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 19, 2014, 09:50:13 pm
Also my question, why did he handover both guns to the police?

Standard procedure when someone died by gun shot as far as I know





shot anyone recently,  a lawyer,  or gun owner?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Offshore on February 19, 2014, 09:56:43 pm
Also my question, why did he handover both guns to the police?

Standard procedure when someone died by gun shot as far as I know




Not .Why did he find it necessary to take the Victims Gun from wherever it was and hand it over to Police? Why did he not pick up the Body as well and hand it over to the Cops?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 19, 2014, 10:05:41 pm
Also my question, why did he handover both guns to the police? Tampering with crime scene? Did he remove the gun from the dead mans holster or hand.........

I must have missed that part, I only read that both victim and shooter was not holding their guns when the cops arrived?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: gunsports on February 19, 2014, 10:27:20 pm
I have been hesitant to comment; being a biker, gun owner and a cager. But, some things bother me.

First eye witness reports are quoted that the biker had his gun drawn and fired at the driver. This proved to be totally false.

Paramedics were quoted as the driver suffering from  gun shot wound. But, medical report handed to court at bail hearing states that he had an 'abrasion' to the head. Sufficient to admit to ICU as quoted?

Eye witnesses said that the biker was behaving badly before the incident. However, other witnesses state that it was the driver that tried to run the biker off the road.

Pictures of the scene shows the drivers car about 3 1/2 car lengths behind the biker's parked bike. More than enough space for the driver to escape if he felt threatened?

Picture of the scene shows the bike, body and car. Between bike and body there is an opened 'man' bag and next to it, a tablet computer; to big to fit the bag. One can assume it belonged to the biker. These are off the bike and next to the body, leading to the conclusion that the biker must have had these in his hands at the time of the incident. In which hand was the gun?

Forensics proved that biker's gun was not fired. No gun shot residue.

Biker's gun was in posession of driver, who handed it over to traffic police. Why? Why was the man bag open. Was the gun in there?

Three shots were fired at the biker. The first and third hit; both in the back. The third was a empty chamber mis fire.

One can understand that eye witness reports may differ in small details; depending on own perspective. But to claim that the biker fired shots when none were fired, shows prejudice. Same with paramedic statements. They should know the difference between a gun shot wound to the head and an abrasion.

Our justice system is fair. But it is only as good as the evidence presented to it. 'Doctored' evidence leads to incorrect judgements or in his case, conclusions.

The upshot of this is that I today, ordered a dash cam/helmet cam.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Eisbein on February 19, 2014, 11:33:11 pm
Also my question, why did he handover both guns to the police?

Standard procedure when someone died by gun shot as far as I know





shot anyone recently,  a lawyer,  or gun owner?

No, but a friend of mine got attacked in his home recently and his son shot (and killed) the attacker after a moerse fight.
The cops took the guns for ballistic testing and said it was standard procedure.

That be why I added the 'as far as I know'

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 20, 2014, 06:05:00 am
Yes Eisbein, the cops will take both weapons.
But why did the Cager have the biker's weapon in his hands to hand it over to the police? So that he could later explain why his fingerprints, and not that of the biker, was on the gun, perhaps? After he took it from the Biker's bag, as gunsports suggested, perhaps?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 20, 2014, 06:16:41 am

But why did the Cager have the biker's weapon in his hands to hand it over to the police? So that he could later explain why his fingerprints, and not that of the biker, was on the gun, perhaps? After he took it from the Biker's bag, as gunsports suggested, perhaps?


maybe the answer is as simple as:  so a loaded gun wasn't lying around in the street.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 20, 2014, 06:18:57 am

But why did the Cager have the biker's weapon in his hands to hand it over to the police? So that he could later explain why his fingerprints, and not that of the biker, was on the gun, perhaps? After he took it from the Biker's bag, as gunsports suggested, perhaps?


maybe the answer is as simple as:  so a loaded gun wasn't lying around in the street.
some common sense! nice one Ganjora. some of the theories are stretching a bit thin here.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 20, 2014, 06:19:45 am

But why did the Cager have the biker's weapon in his hands to hand it over to the police? So that he could later explain why his fingerprints, and not that of the biker, was on the gun, perhaps? After he took it from the Biker's bag, as gunsports suggested, perhaps?


maybe the answer is as simple as:  so a loaded gun wasn't lying around in the street.
Kak answer G-man. Come on, you should be able to do better than that.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: LeonDude on February 20, 2014, 06:23:54 am
Gunsports, I have to say though, that the police were on the scene. They would probably have opened the biker's bag to look for identification, checked things like his cell-phone for last phoned numbers etc.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on February 20, 2014, 07:42:54 am
19 pages and still no mass ride being planned to bring attention to bikers being shot in traffic???
everyone's probably too busy supporting that BAT guy in his protest against etolls.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 20, 2014, 07:45:18 am
19 pages and still no mass ride being planned to bring attention to bikers being shot in traffic???
everyone's probably too busy supporting that BAT guy in his protest against etolls.

Given the rumours on bad behaviour during BAT protest rides I am not sure it will do the cause any good. But then I guess you being sarcastic? :peepwall:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BiG DoM on February 20, 2014, 07:46:27 am
My epiphamy for the day:

It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that violence is not the only way to solve a problem.

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gensetter on February 20, 2014, 08:06:49 am
My epiphamy for the day:

It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that violence is not the only way to solve a problem.

 :biggrin:
Classic
In my best lower Albany accent Naauw man................... telling you
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BiG DoM on February 20, 2014, 08:14:30 am
My epiphamy for the day:

It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that violence is not the only way to solve a problem.

 :biggrin:
Classic
In my best lower Albany accent Naauw man................... telling you

Ja swaer. ;)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 20, 2014, 08:24:18 am
Cager handing over "both" guns...? Also sounds dodgy to me. He shouldn't have done that...
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: ChrisMann on February 20, 2014, 09:37:57 am
Focus CSI's.  :pot:

When you shot someone you take away his gun, in case he is still alive.

 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 20, 2014, 10:45:59 am
much better! now that makes sense. better than an open laptop near the body indicating that he had his laptop open and was sending a snotty email while approaching cage in order to whiplash him with his extended weapon ...  :pot: :peepwall:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Lord Knormoer on February 20, 2014, 11:53:06 am
Cager handing over "both" guns...? Also sounds dodgy to me. He shouldn't have done that...

The only article that implies this also stated that the biker got off his ride and started shooting. I dismissed the entire article as ungrounded.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gypsybaron on February 20, 2014, 12:10:21 pm
Would it be bad form to ask when the biker's funeral is, and show support for his family, friends and the biking community in general by organising a mass ride during it?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: dirtyXT on February 20, 2014, 12:23:05 pm
not at all. bad form would be not asking if the cage driver needs some support as the facts are up in the air still as to what actually happened.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Veldbrand on February 20, 2014, 12:23:38 pm
I believe it's on Saturday and there's a thread on TB's Facebook page to follow to get the details.
https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo# (https://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#)!/events/288172731332946/
And yes the family have said they welcome and approve of a mass ride for those who would like to join.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: luv2ride on February 20, 2014, 01:35:56 pm
My epiphamy for the day:

It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that violence is not the only way to solve a problem.

 :biggrin:
:imaposer: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Mr Zog on February 20, 2014, 01:40:52 pm
My epiphamy for the day:

It's only when you see a mosquito landing on your testicles that you realise that violence is not the only way to solve a problem.

 :biggrin:

Why would you be watching for a mozzie to land on an exposed nut?  :patch:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gensetter on February 20, 2014, 01:52:09 pm
Deleted
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Cracker on February 20, 2014, 01:58:59 pm
Maybe he has tourette's ..............  ???
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Maddoglips on February 20, 2014, 01:59:40 pm
Maybe he has tourette's ..............  ???

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on February 20, 2014, 03:19:31 pm
Yes Eisbein, the cops will take both weapons.
But why did the Cager have the biker's weapon in his hands to hand it over to the police? So that he could later explain why his fingerprints, and not that of the biker, was on the gun, perhaps? After he took it from the Biker's bag, as gunsports suggested, perhaps?


maybe the biker was not yet dead at that stage, so to be safe, the cager took his weapon
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gensetter on February 21, 2014, 07:15:17 am
Deleted
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Cracker on February 21, 2014, 07:49:09 am
Maybe he has tourette's ..............  ???

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Maybe you suffer from a lack of braincells

Perhaps - but your reply suggests you may have less  ::)

Do not lose sight of the ball .................... 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Maddoglips on February 21, 2014, 08:11:01 am
Maybe he has tourette's ..............  ???

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Maybe you suffer from a lack of braincells

Perhaps - but your reply suggests you may have less  ::)

Do not lose sight of the ball .................... 

If refering to me, I can openly confirm that I have so few, I have to hold my breath while talking and battle with the simplest of tasks such listening to baffoons and letting them get to me or upset me.

But don't worry even with my lack of those brain thingy's, I still Love You  :pot:  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gensetter on February 21, 2014, 08:12:57 am
goodbey wilddogs
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Maddoglips on February 21, 2014, 08:20:56 am
goodbey wilddogs

Whats Up Bud? We having a laugh here nothing personal, no need to leave  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Cracker on February 21, 2014, 11:06:42 am
ditto
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dutchie on February 21, 2014, 01:55:33 pm
The irony.

'So the more he taunted me the more I just kept my cool, true story'
'Banter'
'Tantrum'
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Cracker on February 21, 2014, 05:11:55 pm
Maybe he has tourette's ..............  ???

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Maybe you suffer from a lack of braincells

Perhaps - but your reply suggests you may have less  ::)

Do not lose sight of the ball .................... 

If refering to me, I can openly confirm that I have so few, I have to hold my breath while talking and battle with the simplest of tasks such listening to baffoons and letting them get to me or upset me.

But don't worry even with my lack of those brain thingy's, I still Love You  :pot:  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

I think it was maddoglips man love that scared him off ...........  ;)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BlueBull2007 on February 22, 2014, 12:24:43 am
Ag don't worry okes, Gensetter is just a sensitive soul who takes things personally.

Gensetter - Lighten up boet, its only the internet. Like the blackberry thing, ignore the stuff you don't like or is unimportant. :deal: The wilddogs are not against you.

If its really too much just leave or lurk without announcing it. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on February 22, 2014, 09:12:49 pm
goodbey wilddogs

What is goodbey ( seeing as wooly is away )  :laughing4:

Gensetter, just chill, there is life after Wild Dogs
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Gypsybaron on February 22, 2014, 09:35:07 pm
There was a good turnout at the funeral today......................
Some of the bikes, the rest was parked elsewhere. I guess there were roughly 120 bikers there - too much to be accommodated in the Church.

Simon Fourie was there as well, on the Bike SA 1190 - complete with a (as he put it "they all do that") broken centre stand. And Biker Lifestyle apparently also had a reporter there - can you confirm that, Kurt?

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1798148_708346909186673_163352729_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1939767_708347025853328_2121710376_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dusty Rusty on April 25, 2014, 01:14:52 pm
 :-\

http://citizen.co.za/165813/emotions-flare-biker-road-rage-case-postponed/ (http://citizen.co.za/165813/emotions-flare-biker-road-rage-case-postponed/)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Grrrr.... on April 25, 2014, 01:33:05 pm
goodbey wilddogs

Last Active:    Yesterday at 12:50:53 am

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Allegro on April 25, 2014, 05:23:12 pm
 :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on April 29, 2014, 03:27:30 pm
whatever happened with this case.. haven't seen anything in the news.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BFG on April 29, 2014, 03:39:35 pm
whatever happened with this case.. haven't seen anything in the news.
Case has been postponed until sometime in June IIRC.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: silvrav on June 26, 2014, 08:05:38 am
Court case resumes today....
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: spoedvark on June 26, 2014, 12:03:34 pm
Let's hope all is revealed! And justice is served !
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Dirty Des on June 26, 2014, 03:15:54 pm
Road rage case postponed to August

Johannesburg - A man accused of shooting dead a motorcyclist during a road rage confrontation appeared in the Roodepoort Magistrate's Court on Thursday.

The matter was postponed to 21 August for further investigations.

Labour law consultant Meekahefele Mosooa, 43, was out on R5 000 bail.

Motorcyclist Douglas Pierce was shot dead in the confrontation with Mosooa on Malibongwe Drive, Northriding, Johannesburg, in February. Both men carried firearms. Mosooa was driving a sedan.

He told the court during his bail application he acted in self-defence.


- SAPA
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: silvrav on June 26, 2014, 03:29:18 pm
Road rage case postponed to August

Johannesburg - A man accused of shooting dead a motorcyclist during a road rage confrontation appeared in the Roodepoort Magistrate's Court on Thursday.

The matter was postponed to 21 August for further investigations.

Labour law consultant Meekahefele Mosooa, 43, was out on R5 000 bail.

Motorcyclist Douglas Pierce was shot dead in the confrontation with Mosooa on Malibongwe Drive, Northriding, Johannesburg, in February. Both men carried firearms. Mosooa was driving a sedan.

He told the court during his bail application he acted in self-defence.


- SAPA

Postponed again.....our wonderful justice system....  :patch:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: RobC on May 12, 2015, 10:21:44 am
Similar case ends with aquittal;

http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2015-05-11-padwoede-skieter-stap-vry-uit (http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2015-05-11-padwoede-skieter-stap-vry-uit)
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 12, 2015, 11:27:53 am
Similar case ends with aquittal;

http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2015-05-11-padwoede-skieter-stap-vry-uit (http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2015-05-11-padwoede-skieter-stap-vry-uit)

Volgens Singh het Sinequan in die rigting van die aanval geskiet en nie noodwendig na die aanvaller nie. ???
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: RobC on May 12, 2015, 11:40:17 am
Similar case ends with aquittal;

http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2015-05-11-padwoede-skieter-stap-vry-uit (http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2015-05-11-padwoede-skieter-stap-vry-uit)

Volgens Singh het Sinequan in die rigting van die aanval geskiet en nie noodwendig na die aanvaller nie. ???
Precident with regards to self defence cases in future?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: TheBear on May 12, 2015, 12:15:36 pm

Postponed again.....our wonderful justice system....  :patch:

If you were the accused, or the victim you would want to be extremely sure every angle is thoroughly investigated.  This is how a proper legal system operates, even outside South Africa.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 12, 2015, 12:25:54 pm
.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: BFG on May 12, 2015, 01:07:04 pm
Both are road rage turned ugly with one person ending up dead due to a gun shot.
And many lives destroyed.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: JonW on July 29, 2019, 06:46:40 pm
Man who killed biker in road rage incident acquitted


https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2019-07-29-man-who-killed-biker-in-road-rage-incident-acquitted/?fbclid=IwAR01Hhguna8oYCGJ6bubYKi9lcJtBtR0KAvWj6DeVd_ZYcL3Sqk4fG2fr4g
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 29, 2019, 07:02:45 pm
I would not let someone assault me in my car either if I was armed.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bundu on July 29, 2019, 07:11:20 pm
wow, this took long......

once again proves that it doesn't make sense to be a road warrior - smile and wave
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: poenerhoes on July 29, 2019, 07:19:58 pm
Eish.......
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on July 29, 2019, 07:24:41 pm
Biker should never have gone that far, but that cannot be changed now. What I find strange is the following in the article.

Spilg on Monday held that Mosooa’s explanation, that he was acting in self-defence, was reasonably possibly true.

Spilg said the evidence of the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department officers, who were at the scene immediately after the shooting, could not be relied upon.


Why would the judge feel he cannot rely on JMPD's version and rather takes the accused's version. Earlier reports stated that the biker did not fire his gun. I find it hard to believe that anyone would chase you down in traffic, on his bike brandishing a handgun. Earlier reports also stated, according to a witness, that the biker was shot from behind, twice. A lot that does not add up here.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: eberhard on July 29, 2019, 08:01:57 pm
City of Johannesburg Metropolitan Council v Ngobeni (314/11) [2012] ZASCA 55 (30 March 2012)
________________________________________
THE SUPREME COURT OF APPEAL OF SOUTH AFRICA

JUDGMENT

Case : 314/11
Reportable
In the matter between


CITY OF JOHANNESBURG METROPOLITAN
COUNCIL …......................................................................................Appellant

and

PATRICK NGOBENI …...............................................................Respondent

Neutral citation: City of Johannesburg Metropolitan Council v Ngobeni (314/11) [2012] ZASCA 55 (30 March 2012)

Coram: Navsa, Heher, Mhlantla, Tshiqi and Wallis JJA

Heard: 28 February 2012

Delivered: 30 March 2012

Summary: Wrongful shooting – conduct of trial judge – irregular – approach to be followed and principles to be applied when dealing with two mutually destructive versions – trial court misdirected itself.
___________________________________________________________

ORDER
___________________________________________________________

On appeal from: South Gauteng High Court, Johannesburg ( Spilg  J sitting as court of first instance).
1 The appeal is upheld with costs including those attendant on the employment of two counsel.
2 The order of the court below is set aside in its entirety and substituted as follows:
'The plaintiff's claim is dismissed with costs.'
___________________________________________________________

JUDGMENT
__________________________________________________________

MHLANTLA JA (NAVSA, HEHER, TSHIQI and WALLIS JJA concurring)



If you have nothing better to do, read the original judgement of Spilg. You do not need to be legally qualified to quickly figure why the supreme court in Bloemfontein unanimously came to the above conclusion.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: TheBear on July 30, 2019, 05:09:27 pm
Biker should never have gone that far, but that cannot be changed now. What I find strange is the following in the article.

Spilg on Monday held that Mosooa’s explanation, that he was acting in self-defence, was reasonably possibly true.

Spilg said the evidence of the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department officers, who were at the scene immediately after the shooting, could not be relied upon.


Why would the judge feel he cannot rely on JMPD's version and rather takes the accused's version. Earlier reports stated that the biker did not fire his gun. I find it hard to believe that anyone would chase you down in traffic, on his bike brandishing a handgun. Earlier reports also stated, according to a witness, that the biker was shot from behind, twice. A lot that does not add up here.

Problem, as always is that we only have media reports to go by.  I also read that witnesses said, he was shot in the back.  AS an example, did the coroner during the autopsy find that he was shot in the back?  Surely and autopsy was done and the coroner testified to where and how the shots hit the man? 
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: IceCreamMan on July 30, 2019, 05:33:01 pm
Biker should never have gone that far, but that cannot be changed now. What I find strange is the following in the article.

Spilg on Monday held that Mosooa’s explanation, that he was acting in self-defence, was reasonably possibly true.

Spilg said the evidence of the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department officers, who were at the scene immediately after the shooting, could not be relied upon.


Why would the judge feel he cannot rely on JMPD's version and rather takes the accused's version. Earlier reports stated that the biker did not fire his gun. I find it hard to believe that anyone would chase you down in traffic, on his bike brandishing a handgun. Earlier reports also stated, according to a witness, that the biker was shot from behind, twice. A lot that does not add up here.

JMPD again????

Unreliable???

Kannie wees nie
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: TheBear on July 30, 2019, 05:37:27 pm
Biker should never have gone that far, but that cannot be changed now. What I find strange is the following in the article.

Spilg on Monday held that Mosooa’s explanation, that he was acting in self-defence, was reasonably possibly true.

Spilg said the evidence of the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department officers, who were at the scene immediately after the shooting, could not be relied upon.


Why would the judge feel he cannot rely on JMPD's version and rather takes the accused's version. Earlier reports stated that the biker did not fire his gun. I find it hard to believe that anyone would chase you down in traffic, on his bike brandishing a handgun. Earlier reports also stated, according to a witness, that the biker was shot from behind, twice. A lot that does not add up here.

JMPD again????

Unreliable???

Kannie wees nie

Jawellnofine.  In your eyes they are fucked if they don't do their job and fucked when they do.  Nothing new.  Moving along.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: IceCreamMan on July 30, 2019, 05:52:25 pm
Biker should never have gone that far, but that cannot be changed now. What I find strange is the following in the article.

Spilg on Monday held that Mosooa’s explanation, that he was acting in self-defence, was reasonably possibly true.

Spilg said the evidence of the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department officers, who were at the scene immediately after the shooting, could not be relied upon.


Why would the judge feel he cannot rely on JMPD's version and rather takes the accused's version. Earlier reports stated that the biker did not fire his gun. I find it hard to believe that anyone would chase you down in traffic, on his bike brandishing a handgun. Earlier reports also stated, according to a witness, that the biker was shot from behind, twice. A lot that does not add up here.

JMPD again????

Unreliable???

Kannie wees nie

Jawellnofine.  In your eyes they are fucked if they don't do their job and fucked when they do.  Nothing new.  Moving along.

A judge, not me, but a judge found them unreliable.

Wayne minnaar should resign immediately. But he won’t.

Same bumbling untrained lot.

Don’t blame me.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on August 01, 2019, 03:47:10 pm
Biker should never have gone that far, but that cannot be changed now. What I find strange is the following in the article.

Spilg on Monday held that Mosooa’s explanation, that he was acting in self-defence, was reasonably possibly true.

Spilg said the evidence of the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department officers, who were at the scene immediately after the shooting, could not be relied upon.


Why would the judge feel he cannot rely on JMPD's version and rather takes the accused's version. Earlier reports stated that the biker did not fire his gun. I find it hard to believe that anyone would chase you down in traffic, on his bike brandishing a handgun. Earlier reports also stated, according to a witness, that the biker was shot from behind, twice. A lot that does not add up here.

It never really came to light that the oke on the bike had a gun and that he shot 1st.. I only read  that now. So no it doesnt make sense because that means the guy got off the bike, shot at the guy in the car then turned to walk away when he got shot, so we are not being told the whole story here.

I think that we will always get what the media wants us to read .. the court transcripts will tell the correct story.

It must have been a frightening situation, I think it takes a lot to pull out a gun and shoot someone.. you know what is coming your way, so you had better be sure.

in this case he was sure and he got let off, but I can tell you , that was 5 years of anxiety for the guy.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 01, 2019, 05:10:05 pm
Biker should never have gone that far, but that cannot be changed now. What I find strange is the following in the article.

Spilg on Monday held that Mosooa’s explanation, that he was acting in self-defence, was reasonably possibly true.

Spilg said the evidence of the Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department officers, who were at the scene immediately after the shooting, could not be relied upon.


Why would the judge feel he cannot rely on JMPD's version and rather takes the accused's version. Earlier reports stated that the biker did not fire his gun. I find it hard to believe that anyone would chase you down in traffic, on his bike brandishing a handgun. Earlier reports also stated, according to a witness, that the biker was shot from behind, twice. A lot that does not add up here.

It never really came to light that the oke on the bike had a gun and that he shot 1st.. I only read  that now. So no it doesnt make sense because that means the guy got off the bike, shot at the guy in the car then turned to walk away when he got shot, so we are not being told the whole story here.

I think that we will always get what the media wants us to read .. the court transcripts will tell the correct story.

It must have been a frightening situation, I think it takes a lot to pull out a gun and shoot someone.. you know what is coming your way, so you had better be sure.

in this case he was sure and he got let off, but I can tell you , that was 5 years of anxiety for the guy.

You only have to look at crime stats to realise that it seemingly takes nothing to kill someone with a gun in SA. :xxbah:

Or drag a woman underneath your taxi for a 100 metres.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: OomD on August 01, 2019, 06:18:15 pm
I don't know if the biker was actually shot in the back or not, but why would it make any difference anyway? The law says you may shoot to defend yourself, should an attack be imminent or had already started. The fact that someone is shot in the back is absolutely no indication that the attack was no longer present, or that the danger to the shooter was over.

Another thing... as you say, 2SD, being shot in SA is more and more likely. Shootings are brazenly carried out, a criminal with a gun is no longer an situation of "I will shoot if you do not comply". It is more of shooting first, then robbing afterwards. That also means that the danger, or risk, to victims are higher, which in turn should make it easier for courts to find that a person acted in self defence. The more aggressive the criminals become, it seems, the easier it is for us to legally shoot them.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on August 01, 2019, 06:49:02 pm
I don't know if the biker was actually shot in the back or not, but why would it make any difference anyway? The law says you may shoot to defend yourself, should an attack be imminent or had already started. The fact that someone is shot in the back is absolutely no indication that the attack was no longer present, or that the danger to the shooter was over.

Another thing... as you say, 2SD, being shot in SA is more and more likely. Shootings are brazenly carried out, a criminal with a gun is no longer an situation of "I will shoot if you do not comply". It is more of shooting first, then robbing afterwards. That also means that the danger, or risk, to victims are higher, which in turn should make it easier for courts to find that a person acted in self defence. The more aggressive the criminals become, it seems, the easier it is for us to legally shoot them.

A lot that does not make sense in the accused's version. He said he wrestled with Pearce when his firearm accidentally discharged, twice. An eyewitness said Pearce was walking back to his bike when he was shot from behind, thus at that stage the threat to the accused was over, not so. Accused maintained he did not shoot victim from behind.

From the court proceedings. According to Persad, one forensic analyst had initially believed there was a possibility the wounds showed Pearce had been shot in the front, but upon further investigation of the ballistic evidence, had changed his testimony to say that Masooa had shot the biker in the back.

On Monday, Masooa was adamant that the analyst was “a shame to his profession” and that it was highly unprofessional to change his opinion after submitting his initial report. “It is disgusting that he would change it because of the influence of a police officer,” said Masooa.

He was also quick to denounce a second ballistics expert Major Chris Mangena, who believed Pearce was shot in the back. According to Masooa, Mangena had failed to do his job properly.

When Persad confronted him again with the fact that a witness had seen him shooting Pearce from behind, Masooa once again blamed the media for altering the man’s understanding of events, as his statement to police was given a month after the shooting


Not only was the witness and the JMPD disregarded, so too were two independent ballistic experts and the accused's version accepted. Really strange.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 01, 2019, 07:05:23 pm
It is these type of court results that has me greatly worried over the SA court system.

Spoke to a family member last weekend, he is a advocate in Durban, and he assured me to be worried about the courts of SA going into the future.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 01, 2019, 07:44:11 pm
I don't know if the biker was actually shot in the back or not, but why would it make any difference anyway? The law says you may shoot to defend yourself, should an attack be imminent or had already started. The fact that someone is shot in the back is absolutely no indication that the attack was no longer present, or that the danger to the shooter was over.

Another thing... as you say, 2SD, being shot in SA is more and more likely. Shootings are brazenly carried out, a criminal with a gun is no longer an situation of "I will shoot if you do not comply". It is more of shooting first, then robbing afterwards. That also means that the danger, or risk, to victims are higher, which in turn should make it easier for courts to find that a person acted in self defence. The more aggressive the criminals become, it seems, the easier it is for us to legally shoot them.

A lot that does not make sense in the accused's version. He said he wrestled with Pearce when his firearm accidentally discharged, twice. An eyewitness said Pearce was walking back to his bike when he was shot from behind, thus at that stage the threat to the accused was over, not so. Accused maintained he did not shoot victim from behind.

From the court proceedings. According to Persad, one forensic analyst had initially believed there was a possibility the wounds showed Pearce had been shot in the front, but upon further investigation of the ballistic evidence, had changed his testimony to say that Masooa had shot the biker in the back.

On Monday, Masooa was adamant that the analyst was “a shame to his profession” and that it was highly unprofessional to change his opinion after submitting his initial report. “It is disgusting that he would change it because of the influence of a police officer,” said Masooa.

He was also quick to denounce a second ballistics expert Major Chris Mangena, who believed Pearce was shot in the back. According to Masooa, Mangena had failed to do his job properly.

When Persad confronted him again with the fact that a witness had seen him shooting Pearce from behind, Masooa once again blamed the media for altering the man’s understanding of events, as his statement to police was given a month after the shooting


Not only was the witness and the JMPD disregarded, so too were two independent ballistic experts and the accused's version accepted. Really strange.

As I remember the accused was a member of the legal fraternity...

This thing of being shot in the back is worrying,

And contrary to some opinion on this thread, one may not shoot another if the  threat is no longer present which is normally the case when someone is walking away.

Too much here seems suspect.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: manxkipper on August 01, 2019, 08:27:35 pm
Onus on the state to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If it doesn’t the accused walks, guilty or not! Fairness or morality is irrelevant. Sad but that’s the reality.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 01, 2019, 08:29:51 pm
Onus on the state to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If it doesn’t the accused walks, guilty or not! Fairness or morality is irrelevant. Sad but that’s the reality.

And as it should be, even though not always fair.

The alternative is too ghastly to think of.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: eberhard on August 01, 2019, 09:47:03 pm
We are already in the alternative.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 01, 2019, 09:50:05 pm
We are already in the alternative.

This is indeed scary.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Ganjora on August 02, 2019, 03:27:45 am
seems to me like another case of standard rules always applying.
in other words,  if you look for shit you generally find a lot of it,  and really quickly too.
shouting or gesticulating your appreciation to others in traffic is acceptable behaviour.   
going over to express appreciation in person is not.

also,  don't take out your gun unless you are actually going to use it.
nobody appreciates guys that just whip it out and wave it about.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vintage_Mania on August 02, 2019, 06:02:02 am
seems to me like another case of standard rules always applying.
in other words,  if you look for shit you generally find a lot of it,  and really quickly too.
shouting or gesticulating your appreciation to others in traffic is acceptable behaviour.   
going over to express appreciation in person is not.

also,  don't take out your gun unless you are actually going to use it.
nobody appreciates guys that just whip it out and wave it about.


If you are prone to waving a handgun around, you are bound to get shot. True story.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on August 02, 2019, 06:18:18 am
seems to me like another case of standard rules always applying.
in other words,  if you look for shit you generally find a lot of it,  and really quickly too.
shouting or gesticulating your appreciation to others in traffic is acceptable behaviour.   
going over to express appreciation in person is not.

also,  don't take out your gun unless you are actually going to use it.
nobody appreciates guys that just whip it out and wave it about.


If you are prone to waving a handgun around, you are bound to get shot. True story.

No doubt about that. Seems however it is the accused version that Pearce took out his gun. There were witnesses saying he never took out his gun and did not fire it either. There was not even concensus that the accused's wounds were bullet wounds. It came out in court that the accused handled Pearce's gun after he was shot. Tampering with a crime scene was the words used. I dont know what to believe, but it seems there is more to thos story than we are lead to believe.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vintage_Mania on August 02, 2019, 06:20:29 am
Full court transcripts will be the only way to know what was said and what not.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: GhostSixFour on August 02, 2019, 08:04:12 am
seems to me like another case of standard rules always applying.
in other words,  if you look for shit you generally find a lot of it,  and really quickly too.
shouting or gesticulating your appreciation to others in traffic is acceptable behaviour.   
going over to express appreciation in person is not.

also,  don't take out your gun unless you are actually going to use it.
nobody appreciates guys that just whip it out and wave it about.

Even doing this with a certain appendage will probably lead to getting shot.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 02, 2019, 09:03:47 am
seems to me like another case of standard rules always applying.
in other words,  if you look for shit you generally find a lot of it,  and really quickly too.
shouting or gesticulating your appreciation to others in traffic is acceptable behaviour.   
going over to express appreciation in person is not.

also,  don't take out your gun unless you are actually going to use it.
nobody appreciates guys that just whip it out and wave it about.


If you are prone to waving a handgun around, you are bound to get shot. True story.

Not true at all, if you consider the vast amount of handgun waving in SA daily.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vintage_Mania on August 02, 2019, 09:23:58 am
seems to me like another case of standard rules always applying.
in other words,  if you look for shit you generally find a lot of it,  and really quickly too.
shouting or gesticulating your appreciation to others in traffic is acceptable behaviour.   
going over to express appreciation in person is not.

also,  don't take out your gun unless you are actually going to use it.
nobody appreciates guys that just whip it out and wave it about.


If you are prone to waving a handgun around, you are bound to get shot. True story.

Not true at all, if you consider the vast amount of handgun waving in SA daily.

It is true.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: TheBear on August 02, 2019, 10:09:56 am
As I said earlier, we only read a few paragraphs in the media.  Unless you spend every day in court, or have all of the court transcripts as said by another poster, we cannot possibly decide whether the court made a mistake, or not, or whether somethings smells fishy, or not. 

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: TheBear on August 02, 2019, 10:10:46 am
seems to me like another case of standard rules always applying.
in other words,  if you look for shit you generally find a lot of it,  and really quickly too.
shouting or gesticulating your appreciation to others in traffic is acceptable behaviour.   
going over to express appreciation in person is not.

also,  don't take out your gun unless you are actually going to use it.
nobody appreciates guys that just whip it out and wave it about.


If you are prone to waving a handgun around, you are bound to get shot. True story.

Not true at all, if you consider the vast amount of handgun waving in SA daily.

The statistic GunFree SA does not want you to see.  More people murdered with knifes in SA, than guns.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 02, 2019, 10:40:30 am
As I said earlier, we only read a few paragraphs in the media.  Unless you spend every day in court, or have all of the court transcripts as said by another poster, we cannot possibly decide whether the court made a mistake, or not, or whether somethings smells fishy, or not.

It is just a pity that our media has become what it is, that nothing read in the paper can be retold.

Also worrying that, in a system already deeply mistrusted by the public, a judge will be so damning on the Metro police.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: TheBear on August 02, 2019, 11:45:11 am
As I said earlier, we only read a few paragraphs in the media.  Unless you spend every day in court, or have all of the court transcripts as said by another poster, we cannot possibly decide whether the court made a mistake, or not, or whether somethings smells fishy, or not.

It is just a pity that our media has become what it is, that nothing read in the paper can be retold.

Also worrying that, in a system already deeply mistrusted by the public, a judge will be so damning on the Metro police.

I am not sure what the Metro Police did wrong, nor exactly what the judge said, but I must say, this is a worrying aspect.  There is a violent death and the Metro Police (spietkops in die ou dae) deals with the scene.  Extremely worrying.  Surely they should only cordon off the area and wait for the forensics teams and detectives to arrive.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on August 02, 2019, 12:17:47 pm
As I said earlier, we only read a few paragraphs in the media.  Unless you spend every day in court, or have all of the court transcripts as said by another poster, we cannot possibly decide whether the court made a mistake, or not, or whether somethings smells fishy, or not.

It is just a pity that our media has become what it is, that nothing read in the paper can be retold.

Also worrying that, in a system already deeply mistrusted by the public, a judge will be so damning on the Metro police.

I would think it is more worrying if the judge was'nt so harsh with the Metro Police.. There seems to be more than just holes in their training, it seems non existent. From what was said, their dealing of the crime scene was not exactly professional.

Its like that cop who posted pictures of that ex soccer player's dead body on twitter .. common sense escapes some people
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 02, 2019, 01:43:43 pm
It also depends on who is the perpetrator, and if the cops are willing to "adjust" the crime scene for him or her a bit, iow corrupt cops.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Skaiidawg on August 02, 2019, 10:09:47 pm
I don't know if the biker was actually shot in the back or not, but why would it make any difference anyway? The law says you may shoot to defend yourself, should an attack be imminent or had already started.

My understanding is that you may NOT shoot someone in the back, as that is construed that the threat is moving away from you
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 02, 2019, 10:12:54 pm
I don't know if the biker was actually shot in the back or not, but why would it make any difference anyway? The law says you may shoot to defend yourself, should an attack be imminent or had already started.

My understanding is that you may NOT shoot someone in the back, as that is construed that the threat is moving away from you

Also my understanding.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vintage_Mania on August 03, 2019, 06:25:01 am
I don't know if the biker was actually shot in the back or not, but why would it make any difference anyway? The law says you may shoot to defend yourself, should an attack be imminent or had already started.

My understanding is that you may NOT shoot someone in the back, as that is construed that the threat is moving away from you

Also my understanding.

It is totally situation dependent. Many a would be killer, or know killer, has been shot in the back and deemed justifiable. The most opportune moment to kill a gun wielding goblin is when he turns his back. Also, true story.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on August 03, 2019, 06:43:36 am
I don't know if the biker was actually shot in the back or not, but why would it make any difference anyway? The law says you may shoot to defend yourself, should an attack be imminent or had already started.

My understanding is that you may NOT shoot someone in the back, as that is construed that the threat is moving away from you

Also my understanding.

It is totally situation dependent. Many a would be killer, or know killer, has been shot in the back and deemed justifiable. The most opportune moment to kill a gun wielding goblin is when he turns his back. Also, true story.

I was not on the scene at the time of the attack, so I go on the info available, in which case shooting Pearce in the back would seem totally out of line. Look at these requirements, especially nr3.

The following five factors are important:
The attack must be unlawful.
The attack must be imminent or already underway.
The attack must not be complete (it’s not self-defense if you shoot someone after the attack is over.)
The defensive action must be directed only against the attacker.
The defensive action must be proportionate to the circumstances (property value and the instrument used in the attack are key considerations.)

Pearce was walking back to his bike, he assaulted the accused for whatever happened between them, stopped the assault and walked back to his bike. Shooting him in the back under those circumstances can never be justified.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 03, 2019, 09:03:15 am
Bie, one can only hope that if the situation was indeed that the deceased was shot in the back while walking back to his bike, that someone would take up the case for fairness.

I find it difficult to believe that this man was shot from behind, and the killer would walk free in a court of SA.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on August 03, 2019, 09:05:42 am
Well the pathology people confirmed he was shot from behind. That alone does not tie in with the accused version.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: OomD on August 03, 2019, 10:51:07 am
The point is that is can be totally justifiable to shoot someone in the back. The law itself says absolutely nothing about shot placement. It simply says you may shoot to prevent life threatening harm. What if you are attacked and the attacker walks back to pick up his gun? Or pick up an axe, or a knife, or even a brick? Or whatever. Do you have to wait for him to face you again before shooting? Certainly not! If your life is in danger you may shoot. Period.

I certainly do not know the details of this case, but if the judge found it justifiable for the victim to be shot in the back then it appears the judge has access to some detail that we do not.

Or are you guys suggesting the judge erred? And if so, would he have knowingly erred? And if so, what would his motivation be to err?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Vintage_Mania on August 03, 2019, 11:31:56 am
Bie, one can only hope that if the situation was indeed that the deceased was shot in the back while walking back to his bike, that someone would take up the case for fairness.

I find it difficult to believe that this man was shot from behind, and the killer would walk free in a court of SA.

If he threatened the accused that might make a huge difference. Say he told the already assaulted party he is going to get a tyre lever to do more damage, or something along those lines, the retaliation can be deemed justifiable.

*EDIT* - I see OomD already made the point  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 03, 2019, 02:12:51 pm
Bie, one can only hope that if the situation was indeed that the deceased was shot in the back while walking back to his bike, that someone would take up the case for fairness.

I find it difficult to believe that this man was shot from behind, and the killer would walk free in a court of SA.

If he threatened the accused that might make a huge difference. Say he told the already assaulted party he is going to get a tyre lever to do more damage, or something along those lines, the retaliation can be deemed justifiable.

*EDIT* - I see OomD already made the point  :thumleft:

Retaliation? That’s murder innit?

The law prescribes minimum force to prevent the attack. While there may be scenarios where shooting someone in the back is justifiable don’t try doing this at home, just saying.

Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on August 03, 2019, 02:37:43 pm
The law is clear that you cannot shoot in self defense if the attack has ceased. Witness said Pearce was walking back to his bike and was shot from behind. Firstly that tells us the attack has ceased and corroborated by the pathologists who said the shots came from behind. The issue is not where the shots were placed, the issue is they and the witness statement both prove that the attack was over and the accused had no reason to act in self defense at that point anymore.

Obviously you can shoot someone in the back if that is faceing towards you, but he is firing at you over his shoulder. Then the attack is still in progress and he is perfectly within the law to defend himself. That is however not what happened here.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: OomD on August 03, 2019, 04:43:16 pm
The law is clear that you cannot shoot in self defense if the attack has ceased. Witness said Pearce was walking back to his bike and was shot from behind. Firstly that tells us the attack has ceased and corroborated by the pathologists who said the shots came from behind. The issue is not where the shots were placed, the issue is they and the witness statement both prove that the attack was over and the accused had no reason to act in self defense at that point anymore.

Obviously you can shoot someone in the back if that is faceing towards you, but he is firing at you over his shoulder. Then the attack is still in progress and he is perfectly within the law to defend himself. That is however not what happened here.
Well, you only have the witness account to go with, and the judge clearly decided that the attack was not over, so the witness accounts are either wrong or inadmissible. Or the judge erred. Is that what you're saying?
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: Bie on August 03, 2019, 04:59:30 pm
The law is clear that you cannot shoot in self defense if the attack has ceased. Witness said Pearce was walking back to his bike and was shot from behind. Firstly that tells us the attack has ceased and corroborated by the pathologists who said the shots came from behind. The issue is not where the shots were placed, the issue is they and the witness statement both prove that the attack was over and the accused had no reason to act in self defense at that point anymore.

Obviously you can shoot someone in the back if that is faceing towards you, but he is firing at you over his shoulder. Then the attack is still in progress and he is perfectly within the law to defend himself. That is however not what happened here.
Well, you only have the witness account to go with, and the judge clearly decided that the attack was not over, so the witness accounts are either wrong or inadmissible. Or the judge erred. Is that what you're saying?

I think I already made it clear that I question the outcome reached by the judge. JMPD's version of ivents were disregarded in favour of the accused version. (not sure exactly what their version was, just that they were taken out by the judge, in favour of the accused) Witness's version which was corroborated by the pathologists' findings were again disregarded in favour of the accused's version. Accused handled Pearce's handgun prior to authorities arriving. Accusations of tampering with a crimescene was made, also brushed off by judge. Too much of the same, it seems.
Title: Re: Biker shot dead in road rage incident
Post by: OomD on August 03, 2019, 05:07:03 pm
The law is clear that you cannot shoot in self defense if the attack has ceased. Witness said Pearce was walking back to his bike and was shot from behind. Firstly that tells us the attack has ceased and corroborated by the pathologists who said the shots came from behind. The issue is not where the shots were placed, the issue is they and the witness statement both prove that the attack was over and the accused had no reason to act in self defense at that point anymore.

Obviously you can shoot someone in the back if that is faceing towards you, but he is firing at you over his shoulder. Then the attack is still in progress and he is perfectly within the law to defend himself. That is however not what happened here.
Well, you only have the witness account to go with, and the judge clearly decided that the attack was not over, so the witness accounts are either wrong or inadmissible. Or the judge erred. Is that what you're saying?

I think I already made it clear that I question the outcome reached by the judge. JMPD's version of ivents were disregarded in favour of the accused version. (not sure exactly what their version was, just that they were taken out by the judge, in favour of the accused) Witness's version which was corroborated by the pathologists' findings were again disregarded in favour of the accused's version. Accused handled Pearce's handgun prior to authorities arriving. Accusations of tampering with a crimescene was made, also brushed off by judge. Too much of the same, it seems.
Noted.  :thumleft: