Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: 2StrokeDan on February 20, 2014, 10:48:23 pm

Title: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 20, 2014, 10:48:23 pm
Just tonight I got involved in a difference of opinion between myself and TVB.
TVB reckoned that the XTZ should be much cheaper than the 690.
Why?
Yamaha built the XTZ with only one purpose in mind, and they do not mislead the buyer over what this purpose is. It's purpose is touring and everything from the Tenere name to the
fairing, the big fuel tank and strenghtened subframe.                                                                                 
Yamaha never thought that some people would actually think that this is a trials, or even enduro bike. It is a tourer, and Yamaha built it as such.
No high compression engine to tire you with barking exhaust note and snappy throttle, no "race" suspension when the tourer only want a smooth ride through the Cederberg.

Now the 690. It actually baffles me why anyone would want to compare this very light, very powerful motorcycle with close to competition hassis to a tourer such as the Yamaha XTZ.
But since some do, here goes.
You buy your 690 for R110000, then you buy your 690 extra tanks for R10000, then the Omega kit for R25000. It now cost you R145000, yet as a touring bike, it still falls short of the XTZ.
It still has a plastic subframe, it still feels "nervous" at 120[a downtrade for quick handling], it has a "snappy" throttle thanks to high compression and lots of power.
Reliability can never compare to Yamaha, even this Italian Pirate XTZ ;), and I know I am offending some KTM guys here when I say that reliability is an issue, sorry, but it is.

I know some will say that the thrill is just so good on the 690, and that is true, but this is about value from your purchase. A purchase done right.
IOW if you bought your 690 for wheelies, dragraces against other singles and playing in the dunes, you have chosen right.
If you bought your XTZ for touring and long distance riding, you have chosen right.

In my motorcycling life I have never seen bikes being sold with KMS as low as on the 690's. 1st owner selling at 400KM/2500kms etc is actually quite common.
What this tells me is that the 690 is the bike being bought the most of all bikes for the wrong reason. So for all these low-kay sellers, their purchase was wrong.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 21, 2014, 06:34:44 am
Apart from downplaying how good the 690 is at what it was built for, you're also implying that it's overpriced. Not everyone needs kits to be able to tour on it either, most only do it for the look anyway. Long range tanks and a small screen and you are good to go. So 95+ about 15k. 110k and you have a bike that can do it all.

Let me ask you this. How is a 650 Sertao overpriced compared to a 660Z. I'll concede that the 660 is better than the GS in a lot of areas but the GS also has areas where it at least matches the Z, some where it's maybe even slightly better plus it's cheaper I think? Yet you have on several occasions called that overpriced? (Amongst other things..)
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: whitedelight on February 21, 2014, 06:49:16 am
Well it is slightly unfair to compare the two,as KTM refer to the 690 as the largest capacity bike in their endure range,whereas the XTZ is pegged as a smaller capacity tourer.
I have a mate that will comfortably do 500-600 Kays a day on his Oryx,but I still think the Yammie would be a more comfortable tourer.
If Yamaha had put a bit more gutsy motor in the 660 frame they would have the ultimate DS bike. I am amazed that the newer singles handle the higher milage quite well.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: zacapa on February 21, 2014, 07:03:54 am
Well it is slightly unfair to compare the two,as KTM refer to the 690 as the largest capacity bike in their endure range,whereas the XTZ is pegged as a smaller capacity tourer.
I have a mate that will comfortably do 500-600 Kays a day on his Oryx,but I still think the Yammie would be a more comfortable tourer.
If Yamaha had put a bit more gutsy motor in the 660 frame they would have the ultimate DS bike. I am amazed that the newer singles handle the higher milage quite well.

One problem with the Yammy for me at least if you are going to use it as a serious adventure bike is the all up weight of 209 fully fueled. My XR650L weighs 155kg with 19 liters fuel on board. XTZ and 690 are essentially worlds apart and I agree that I would rather be on a XTZ for covering road and good gravel mileage. The XR on the other hand strikes a sensible balance - it is as light as a 690 but at half the price and the seating compared to orange make is sofa like. They are all great bikes with flaws and good features.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Herminator on February 21, 2014, 07:08:29 am
I have a friend who has a 690, one long distance trip later and he bought himself
a 990 aswell

The 690 is not a very comfortable bike, unless you want to spend another R10k
on a better seat

Thats ontop of the R50K for the Oryx kit

After I saw that I like riding the Tech Stuff,I bought a KDX for R15k
So now I have 2 machines that both do their job great
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 07:20:11 am
What was the 690 built for?

It is listed as the biggest capacity bike in the KTM Enduro range, yet not even Taddy or David could win an enduro on one.
It is not a tourer, not standard anyway.
It is a fun bike, that is so, and it has lots of power for a single.
It has above average suspension, yes.

I am not downplaying the 690, I would like to hear opinions on what owners find them like.

The Sertao, unlike the brand-new purposely designed touring XTZ, is just the old GS single with some new lipstick on.

The weight is the XTZ's big drawback, but it was not designed to use as an offroad playbike, the KTM was.

Comparing these two is exactly like comparing the XT1200Z to the KTM 950SE. There is no areas of similarity.

Voice your opinions.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 07:25:25 am
I have a friend who has a 690, one long distance trip later and he bought himself
a 990 aswell

The 690 is not a very comfortable bike, unless you want to spend another R10k
on a better seat

Thats ontop of the R50K for the Oryx kit

After I saw that I like riding the Tech Stuff,I bought a KDX for R15k
So now I have 2 machines that both do their job great

Indeed. To use the 690 as a offroad playbike will make it's value drop like a Mafia victim down a mineshaft.

The Sertao and XR-L can be converted into "touring" bikes, and quite successfully so, but they will  never have the designed good looks of the Yamaha. It is a pretty bike, the XT-Z.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: BFG on February 21, 2014, 07:27:03 am
I agree. The 690 and the XTZ are two very different bikes designed for very different things. And I'm sure that a % of people that buy 690 do so for the wrong reasons. However, there is no denying that the XTZ is far too under powered and has incredibly crappy suspension, especially for a bike that weighs as much as it does. I'm not trying to knock the XTZ, I had one and I loved it.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 07:35:35 am
I agree. The 690 and the XTZ are two very different bikes designed for very different things. And I'm sure that a % of people that buy 690 do so for the wrong reasons. However, there is no denying that the XTZ is far too under powered and has incredibly crappy suspension, especially for a bike that weighs as much as it does. I'm not trying to knock the XTZ, I had one and I loved it.

What was your exact problem with the XT-Z's suspension? Not doubting your experience at all, would simply like to know what the problem areas were.

Apparently my XT-E also has crappy suspension, but IMO only when you take it out of it's design parameters.

Take a 690 to a MX race, and find out that it too has crappy suspension.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Elmo on February 21, 2014, 07:41:12 am
I agree. The 690 and the XTZ are two very different bikes designed for very different things. And I'm sure that a % of people that buy 690 do so for the wrong reasons. However, there is no denying that the XTZ is far too under powered and has incredibly crappy suspension, especially for a bike that weighs as much as it does. I'm not trying to knock the XTZ, I had one and I loved it.

Oh well , there goes my desire to get one straight out the window!!! :'(
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 21, 2014, 07:43:52 am
the XTZ and the 690 are miles apart, the appeal to the XTZ for me is that it although heavy and underpowered does off road very well. and in my experience 90% of any trip is getting to the lekker places you actually want to be and ride the terrain. its offers a little but of everything stock standard. each terrain/sections of a trip warrants a whole different bike if we want to have the perfect bike on every single mile of terrain.

would love a 690, wouldn't love to tour on it as much as i would want to hit the woops with the XTZ. any bike can get you anywhere the only difference is how much do you want to kak off and where you choose to kak. either on the highway or round the track. give and take.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 08:00:19 am
the XTZ and the 690 are miles apart, the appeal to the XTZ for me is that it although heavy and underpowered does off road very well. and in my experience 90% of any trip is getting to the lekker places you actually want to be and ride the terrain. its offers a little but of everything stock standard. each terrain/sections of a trip warrants a whole different bike if we want to have the perfect bike on every single mile of terrain.

would love a 690, wouldn't love to tour on it as much as i would want to hit the woops with the XTZ. any bike can get you anywhere the only difference is how much do you want to kak off and where you choose to kak. either on the highway or round the track. give and take.


Sensible post, and I think what people misunderstand. The XT-Z is possibly the best mix of get you there in comfort and then do offroad.

Amazing how opinions differ, for some the XT-Z is too heavy for offroad work, others will have you believe that they play in plasticland on their GS1200's. >:D
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: badseed on February 21, 2014, 08:02:31 am
I have both the 690 and 990S . Both great bikes but if I was planning a long offroad trip the 660 would be a better bet. I don't get the thing about not enough power on the 660. Perhaps in a drag race on tar but for offroad it as way power than 99% of guys can handle.

On paper the weight looks a bit porky but riding it you don't feel it. Weigh  the 690 with the extra tanks and fairings  as well as luggage rack .

Something I learned about touring with mates is there is always a smaller bike in the mix and no  matter how fast  my 990 my speed is determined by the speed of the slower bike. So why battle in the tight stuff and then still have to ride slow on the big roads. Besides that the 660 cruises at 140  better than the 690.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not selling the 690. It ticks most of my boxes and is the most fun I've ever had on two wheels.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 08:07:11 am
The XT-Z definitely is down on power when pillioning and hauling 2 people's luggage. So is every single there is.

For any single rider application, the 660Z is plenty strong enough.

One would swear everybody races everywhere. :ricky:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Ganjora on February 21, 2014, 08:09:50 am
had quite a few DS bikes,  from an XR250R to a 950ADV.
and a couple in the 650 class,  and i can hoestly say
the 690 is the most fun I've ever had on two wheels.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: cocky on February 21, 2014, 08:12:29 am
More hot air, comparing Sparticus with Jacob Zuma, kak discussion ......... move on and troll kak elsewhere.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 21, 2014, 08:14:24 am
The XT-Z definitely is down on power when pillioning and hauling 2 people's luggage. So is every single there is.

For any single rider application, the 660Z is plenty strong enough.

One would swear everybody races everywhere. :ricky:

:imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
indeed, also think unless you're on the bleeding edge of modern enduro racing and pushing your bike to 99% of its performance capacity, its negligible which bike you choose. XTZ running at 80% capacity will leave a 690 running at 20% capacity everyday all day. learning how to appreciate and captilalise every single horse power can only come from riding a nifty 50cc.  :peepwall: :pot:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: cocky on February 21, 2014, 08:16:21 am
The XT-Z definitely is down on power when pillioning and hauling 2 people's luggage. So is every single there is.

For any single rider application, the 660Z is plenty strong enough.

One would swear everybody races everywhere. :ricky:

:imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
indeed, also think unless you're on the bleeding edge of modern enduro racing and pushing your bike to 99% of its performance capacity, its negligible which bike you choose. XTZ running at 80% capacity will leave a 690 running at 20% capacity everyday all day. learning how to appreciate and captilalise every single horse power can only come from riding a nifty 50cc.  :peepwall: :pot:
Not to forget that the XTZ weights as much as a standard 990 ........ figure that into your 80% - 20% split.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: IceCreamMan on February 21, 2014, 08:16:38 am
the 690 is a fine motorcycle , just too highly strung for my needs ...its the hooligan alter ego of the XTZ essentially.

the xtz is the more DS orientated of the 2 but for sunday morning blats around jhb the 690 would be the better choice
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Offside on February 21, 2014, 08:17:36 am

There have been very few times in my life that I have not owned and enjoyed an XT, so when the XTZ 660 hit the market there was no argument, I hat to have one.

The Z was an absolute joy to ride, more power than I needed, good syspension and a robust frame that could be abused without fear of the tail light snapping off.

The honeymoon lasted about 10000 k's before things went pear shaped. The Z has proved to be the most unreliable bike I have ever owned with one problem following the next to a point where I was to nervous to tackle a day trip never mind anything more adventurous.

The engine re-build was understandable as the air cleaner mod. had never been done as part of the PDI.

Other mechanical areas that needed attention at low km's were : brake pads
                                                                                                        stearing head bearings
                                                                                                        cush drive
                                                                                                        rear wheel bearings

Soon after getting the bike, all electrics in the dash cluster failed caused by the wiring loom being
crimped between the tank and frame.
Next the headlamp stopped working caused by a falure in the ignition switch which is not a servisable part and needed replacing.

The final straw for me was an intermitant electrical problem that felt like a spark plug progresivly breaking down until the bike stopped completly.
A friend down the road was having the same problem with his Z. As his was still under warranty I thought the easist solution was to sit it out until they had sorted the problem.
Two months down the line ....no solution.

As much as I may have bought a bike that was assembled on a Friday afternoon I dont think the 660Z will ever be remembered with the same nostalgia for its ruggedness and reliaility as the 600 Tenere.


Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 21, 2014, 08:22:09 am
The XT-Z definitely is down on power when pillioning and hauling 2 people's luggage. So is every single there is.

For any single rider application, the 660Z is plenty strong enough.

One would swear everybody races everywhere. :ricky:

:imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
indeed, also think unless you're on the bleeding edge of modern enduro racing and pushing your bike to 99% of its performance capacity, its negligible which bike you choose. XTZ running at 80% capacity will leave a 690 running at 20% capacity everyday all day. learning how to appreciate and captilalise every single horse power can only come from riding a nifty 50cc.  :peepwall: :pot:
Not to forget that the XTZ weights as much as a standard 990 ........ figure that into your 80% - 20% split.
believe me i haven't forgotten how a 200kgs bike feels to be picked up... 5 or 6 times. on a steep incline...  proof is in the plastics and heroic scratches found on them.  still prefer kakking off in the 10% of the trip section.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Eddy81 on February 21, 2014, 09:05:48 am
I see absolutely no point in buying a single cylinder bike that weighs only a couple of kilograms lighter than a twin.  Twins have far more touring capability and off road won't feel much heavier.  A single should be what te 690 is, a dual sport bike for crazy off road riding but not much touring capability. 

Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Herminator on February 21, 2014, 09:15:01 am
I would love a Triumph 800 XC, but its just not financially possible, next best was the 660Z
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Beetle on February 21, 2014, 09:20:35 am
More hot air, comparing Sparticus with Jacob Zuma, kak discussion ......... move on and troll kak elsewhere.

 :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Eddy81 on February 21, 2014, 09:39:17 am
Okay cost it a pretty good point.  If one can get a 660 in good condition for low price it makes much more sense than a twin that's allot of money.  The tenere isn't a bad bike at all and on par or maybe slightly better than many twins in term of capability off-road.

Buying them new is a completely different story, I feel the yamaha is way overpriced for what one gets. 

I think it's now a R100 000 or just over?  A KLR that's is essentially the same thing just without EFI is R64 000.00.  Suzuki DR R54 000.00, Sertao R 85 000.00, Aprilia pegaso R62 000.00, XR R60 000.00. 

It becomes even harder to stomach if one considers the new F800gs with ABS, EFI, Heated grips, traction control and all the other bling is around R110 000.00, the triumph tiger xc is R114 000.00.    I'm not saying that all this bling is a good thing but at least from a coating point of view one can see why it costs as much. 


Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Swart Gevaar on February 21, 2014, 09:43:23 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Garfield on February 21, 2014, 09:51:28 am
Some bikes should not be compared.

Having said that, last weekend I had the chance to ride a 690 (standard without rally kit) on the same terrain I usually ride my WR450 right after I have done a few loops with the 450.

In its standard form it was fun to ride there, not much more work than the 450.

On the same terrain the XT660Z (I think I can comment since I owned one) would have been a lot more work purely because of the power and weight.

But then I guess the 690 with rally kit i.e. fairing, larger tank etc. would end up the same, I would like to be able to ride one to see.

In the end I was a bit disappointed with the 690 though, maybe I was expecting much more because of all the hype.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 10:10:23 am
More hot air, comparing Sparticus with Jacob Zuma, kak discussion ......... move on and troll kak elsewhere.

Are you nit interested in "contributing something of value to this forum"? :peepwall:, of weet jy regtig fokkol? :pot:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 10:16:16 am
Okay cost it a pretty good point.  If one can get a 660 in good condition for low price it makes much more sense than a twin that's allot of money.  The tenere isn't a bad bike at all and on par or maybe slightly better than many twins in term of capability off-road.

Buying them new is a completely different story, I feel the yamaha is way overpriced for what one gets. 

I think it's now a R100 000 or just over?  A KLR that's is essentially the same thing just without EFI is R64 000.00.  Suzuki DR R54 000.00, Sertao R 85 000.00, Aprilia pegaso R62 000.00, XR R60 000.00. 

It becomes even harder to stomach if one considers the new F800gs with ABS, EFI, Heated grips, traction control and all the other bling is around R110 000.00, the triumph tiger xc is R114 000.00.    I'm not saying that all this bling is a good thing but at least from a coating point of view one can see why it costs as much. 




Compared to the KLR, which has all the touring features the XT-Z has, the Tenere is expensive. But let Kawasaki design a new and modern KLR, and see them cost around a hundred grand also, same goes for the Sertao and DR650, both of which is continuations of old models.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 10:18:54 am
Purchase price is one thing, I would like to see how the longer term maintenance of the XT compare to the BMW, KTM, Triumph. If you insist on comparing.

The 990's immediately disqualifies itself due to it's unacceptable[for today's standards] fuel wastage. These KTM's are simply inefficient.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Grrrr.... on February 21, 2014, 10:25:11 am
Both are k@k and are overpriced. You should rather buy a..... care to guess? Or should I post pictures?

Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: sting on February 21, 2014, 10:36:39 am
What even brought up this thread I don't know. Different applications people, these are not difficult concepts to understand. For someone who's had 690R for three years now, after having had a 990, Dakar, etc here is why I have it, love it and treasure it.
1. I don't want to ride 400km a day on tar but if I really wanted to, it could do it, although wont be much fun. Would rather do dirt routes.
2. If I had to do 400km on dirt, I would choose nothing else
3. I ride plenty dirt and wanted the lightest, best suspension etc
4. I never ride with panniers etc - one Giant Loop type bag is enough
5. It is always fun to ride and commuting 20km a day through hectic traffic is a breeze
6. when conditions get really tough on dirt, which would you rather be on?
7. Heavy bikes are a waste for this specific application and lots return to lighter bikes after a while
8. every day when I see it, I'm reminded why I love it
9. No pillion
Considering the above, the 690 R has a specific market for what it offers. It is what I wanted from a bike. AND it does what it says on the box unlike others who brand their bikes ENDURO when it's far from it.
Had NO problems other than a blown globe. It's not fuel efficient and I don't care. There are scooters for that.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Eddy81 on February 21, 2014, 10:55:00 am
Well that's kinda the problem, the xtz isn't really new or modern. 
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 11:13:05 am
Well that's kinda the problem, the xtz isn't really new or modern. 

Well, the styling closely follows the "praying mantis" look favoured in the Dakar currently, so I would say at least more modern than the competition.

The new 690 has "fly by wire" accelerator, which means that it is even less suited to dirt applications.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: IceCreamMan on February 21, 2014, 11:15:51 am
Well that's kinda the problem, the xtz isn't really new or modern. 

yip, it has 2 wheels, and that ancient internal combustion engine thingy and indicators and fuel injection system...

u right ....
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 11:16:45 am
What even brought up this thread I don't know. Different applications people, these are not difficult concepts to understand. For someone who's had 690R for three years now, after having had a 990, Dakar, etc here is why I have it, love it and treasure it.
1. I don't want to ride 400km a day on tar but if I really wanted to, it could do it, although wont be much fun. Would rather do dirt routes.
2. If I had to do 400km on dirt, I would choose nothing else
3. I ride plenty dirt and wanted the lightest, best suspension etc
4. I never ride with panniers etc - one Giant Loop type bag is enough
5. It is always fun to ride and commuting 20km a day through hectic traffic is a breeze
6. when conditions get really tough on dirt, which would you rather be on?
7. Heavy bikes are a waste for this specific application and lots return to lighter bikes after a while
8. every day when I see it, I'm reminded why I love it
9. No pillion
Considering the above, the 690 R has a specific market for what it offers. It is what I wanted from a bike. AND it does what it says on the box unlike others who brand their bikes ENDURO when it's far from it.
Had NO problems other than a blown globe. It's not fuel efficient and I don't care. There are scooters for that.


I fully agree with your points, and you actually state exactly all the points why you should not buy a 690 if you want to travel further than the playing field.
The 690's I know of is actually very fuel efficient, maybe you ride your's hard too often? :peepwall:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 21, 2014, 11:22:48 am

There have been very few times in my life that I have not owned and enjoyed an XT, so when the XTZ 660 hit the market there was no argument, I hat to have one.

The Z was an absolute joy to ride, more power than I needed, good syspension and a robust frame that could be abused without fear of the tail light snapping off.

The honeymoon lasted about 10000 k's before things went pear shaped. The Z has proved to be the most unreliable bike I have ever owned with one problem following the next to a point where I was to nervous to tackle a day trip never mind anything more adventurous.

The engine re-build was understandable as the air cleaner mod. had never been done as part of the PDI.

Other mechanical areas that needed attention at low km's were : brake pads
                                                                                                        stearing head bearings
                                                                                                        cush drive
                                                                                                        rear wheel bearings

Soon after getting the bike, all electrics in the dash cluster failed caused by the wiring loom being
crimped between the tank and frame.
Next the headlamp stopped working caused by a falure in the ignition switch which is not a servisable part and needed replacing.

The final straw for me was an intermitant electrical problem that felt like a spark plug progresivly breaking down until the bike stopped completly.
A friend down the road was having the same problem with his Z. As his was still under warranty I thought the easist solution was to sit it out until they had sorted the problem.
Two months down the line ....no solution.

As much as I may have bought a bike that was assembled on a Friday afternoon I dont think the 660Z will ever be remembered with the same nostalgia for its ruggedness and reliaility as the 600 Tenere.




Thank you for sharing your honest experience.

Now: will you rather by a XTZ660 or a XC800 and only pay R16k more for your XC.
The weight is the same, it has way better suspention (xtz owner who is happy with OEM suspention is definately not experienced but rather have tunnel vission-if you think XTZ OEM suspention is good you will be stunned after riding a KTM, you will keep on smiling and never look back)

I say AGAIN: I am a big Yamaha fan and will ride a S10 any day, but the 660XTZ is way overpriced and not a. Respectable bike at all from their stall
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 11:28:00 am
This thread is not a reallife head to head comparison between 690 and 660Z, the main point is pricing on the 660Z, which some say is too expensive.
I want to know why, in concrete facts, you reckon the Yamaha is too expensive?

The KLR is R34000 more expensive, but we all know that KLR's are banned from any place you need to wear long pants and a shirt. Their riders need to be anti-snob supremo.
The Sertao is R10000 cheaper, but need about double that in just a tank and fairing to start comparing.
The XR-L is +-R 40000 cheaper, but it also need a lot of stuff to actually bring it to a tourer.
The DR650 is IMO a much better buy than the XR-L, for the same money, but it also need a lot in add-ons.

The XT remains a much more attractive bike, and this is a big point.

So, is the XT-Z too much money for the bike? Well, all bikes are ridiculously priced, but as it stands I do not think that the XT is overpriced relatively.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 11:41:52 am
I own a standard suspended XT600E, and while it is woefully inadequate at Macassar's whoops, I find this the best touring suspension you can find.

This is what TVB and some can not grasp, for touring you do not need to do whoops, jumps, etc, you need plush suspension.
The bigger the fork diameter, the more stiction you will find, simply due to seal friction area, fork bushings with greater area, etc. This is why these KTM forks on a light bike like the 690 need to be revalved to try and cope with dirtroad corrugations, ripples, etc.

I find my XT suspension so good for normal touring that I would not change anything on it. Plush, it just soaks up all ripples and corrugations in a road.

Everything is compromises. The harder the hit your forks can take, the harder they will have to be, and the more you feel road unevenness. This is the tiring factor when doing long
distance riding. Wrist fatigue, and possibly why I hardly ever see long distance reports by riders on 690's.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: IceCreamMan on February 21, 2014, 11:43:15 am

There have been very few times in my life that I have not owned and enjoyed an XT, so when the XTZ 660 hit the market there was no argument, I hat to have one.

The Z was an absolute joy to ride, more power than I needed, good syspension and a robust frame that could be abused without fear of the tail light snapping off.

The honeymoon lasted about 10000 k's before things went pear shaped. The Z has proved to be the most unreliable bike I have ever owned with one problem following the next to a point where I was to nervous to tackle a day trip never mind anything more adventurous.

The engine re-build was understandable as the air cleaner mod. had never been done as part of the PDI.

Other mechanical areas that needed attention at low km's were : brake pads
                                                                                                        stearing head bearings
                                                                                                        cush drive
                                                                                                        rear wheel bearings

Soon after getting the bike, all electrics in the dash cluster failed caused by the wiring loom being
crimped between the tank and frame.
Next the headlamp stopped working caused by a falure in the ignition switch which is not a servisable part and needed replacing.

The final straw for me was an intermitant electrical problem that felt like a spark plug progresivly breaking down until the bike stopped completly.
A friend down the road was having the same problem with his Z. As his was still under warranty I thought the easist solution was to sit it out until they had sorted the problem.
Two months down the line ....no solution.

As much as I may have bought a bike that was assembled on a Friday afternoon I dont think the 660Z will ever be remembered with the same nostalgia for its ruggedness and reliaility as the 600 Tenere.




Thank you for sharing your honest experience.

Now: will you rather by a XTZ660 or a XC800 and only pay R16k more for your XC.
The weight is the same, it has way better suspention (xtz owner who is happy with OEM suspention is definately not experienced but rather have tunnel vission-if you think XTZ OEM suspention is good you will be stunned after riding a KTM, you will keep on smiling and never look back)

I say AGAIN: I am a big Yamaha fan and will ride a S10 any day, but the 660XTZ is way overpriced and not a. Respectable bike at all from their stall

unless u mark coma or similar this is the biggest twatwaffle crap on WD
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Toors on February 21, 2014, 11:44:27 am
Well that's kinda the problem, the xtz isn't really new or modern. 

Well, the styling closely follows the "praying mantis" look favoured in the Dakar currently, so I would say at least more modern than the competition.

The new 690 has "fly by wire" accelerator, which means that it is even less suited to dirt applications.

Compared to what???  a 350 KTM plastic - yes any other road legal bike (other than road legal 450/500)- fat chance.  Just bought my second 690.  Sold my first when I bought my 1190  _ I just missed the can go anywhere capability of the 690 - I go to a Rally Raid I want to do the stupid route - I go t0 an alfie cox dirt festival I do the blue route - If I want to tour, ride Namibia,  Gravel route of the Alfie Cox Yellow Route I'll take the 1190  Sure the 690 is impractical for riding longe distances - but in the dirt even with the ride by wire throttle/ABS/twin ignition system and those new forks it is still the road worthy dirt bike king...
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: subie on February 21, 2014, 11:48:42 am
I haven't got a Z but the 660R. I have never ridden a 690 but it just looks like too much bike for me. A racehorse compared to my
ordinary saddler.
My Xt660R has got 24000km on the clock and never dropped me anywhere. Very reliable bike for me with more engine power and suspension than I can utilise on dirt roads which is mostly what I bought the bike for . Perfect for me.
There was a very nice 690 on our recent trip to Vorstershoop. Nice exhaust sound and beautifull machine to look at for me. Maybe 20 years ago............  :ricky:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 21, 2014, 11:53:05 am
Well that's kinda the problem, the xtz isn't really new or modern. 

Well, the styling closely follows the "praying mantis" look favoured in the Dakar currently, so I would say at least more modern than the competition.

The new 690 has "fly by wire" accelerator, which means that it is even less suited to dirt applications.

Compared to what???  a 350 KTM plastic - yes any other road legal bike (other than road legal 450/500)- fat chance.  Just bought my second 690.  Sold my first when I bought my 1190  _ I just missed the can go anywhere capability of the 690 - I go to a Rally Raid I want to do the stupid route - I go t0 an alfie cox dirt festival I do the blue route - If I want to tour, ride Namibia,  Gravel route of the Alfie Cox Yellow Route I'll take the 1190  Sure the 690 is impractical for riding longe distances - but in the dirt even with the ride by wire throttle/ABS/twin ignition system and those new forks it is still the road worthy dirt bike king...

Thanks for this Tors, and at least you are talkin experience here. Not just riding the keyboard and occationally (with tunnel vission) a brand name you worship (an that very same brand name feels a f#ck for you any way)
If only Yamaha can wake up and use their recources. They have the ability to built a killer midrange DS bike, and even a better thumper like the current pizza models
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 21, 2014, 11:56:40 am
690 and XR650R is what the SE and HP2 in the liter class is for the 650 class.

Big 650 enduro machines - street legal ones
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Mooi Rooi on February 21, 2014, 12:31:59 pm
I haven't got a Z but the 660R. I have never ridden a 690 but it just looks like too much bike for me. A racehorse compared to my
ordinary saddler.
My Xt660R has got 24000km on the clock and never dropped me anywhere. Very reliable bike for me with more engine power and suspension than I can utilise on dirt roads which is mostly what I bought the bike for . Perfect for me.

Could not agree more / never needed more bike IMO  :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Marvin on February 21, 2014, 12:34:37 pm
Both are k@k and are overpriced. You should rather buy a..... care to guess? Or should I post pictures?


Please post pictjas!!! :ricky:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: drewdza on February 21, 2014, 12:40:04 pm
I haven't got a Z but the 660R. I have never ridden a 690 but it just looks like too much bike for me. A racehorse compared to my
ordinary saddler.
My Xt660R has got 24000km on the clock and never dropped me anywhere. Very reliable bike for me with more engine power and suspension than I can utilise on dirt roads which is mostly what I bought the bike for . Perfect for me.

Could not agree more / never needed more bike IMO  :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

Ag kak man.....you can never have too much bike, only too little self control  >:D. A Tiger lies in your future rooies :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Offside on February 21, 2014, 01:29:26 pm
I own a standard suspended XT600E, and while it is woefully inadequate at Macassar's whoops, I find this the best touring suspension you can find.

This is what TVB and some can not grasp, for touring you do not need to do whoops, jumps, etc, you need plush suspension.
The bigger the fork diameter, the more stiction you will find, simply due to seal friction area, fork bushings with greater area, etc. This is why these KTM forks on a light bike like the 690 need to be revalved to try and cope with dirtroad corrugations, ripples, etc.

I find my XT suspension so good for normal touring that I would not change anything on it. Plush, it just soaks up all ripples and corrugations in a road.

Everything is compromises. The harder the hit your forks can take, the harder they will have to be, and the more you feel road unevenness. This is the tiring factor when doing long
distance riding. Wrist fatigue, and possibly why I hardly ever see long distance reports by riders on 690's.

IMO

A small amount of ronts spent on "Tenerising" the E and you end up with a machine that ticks all the boxes, except for long distance tarr.

This bike is robust reliable, cheep and easy to maintain and best off all no radiator or fuel injection with all the crappy sensors assosiated with "modern" bikes.

My wifes E has done more than my 660Z with non of the hassles. gotta tell you something.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 02:19:33 pm
The 690 is indeed the best roadworthy offroad bike by a long margin. Suspension, power and chassis is in a class of it's own.
But this is where it ends, it cannot be compared to KLR, XT-Z, which was built for touring.

It is a common mistake here to want to choose a 650class bike, and throwing the 690 in with the others in this class. The 690 actually belongs to the playbike class, for just like with a 450WR, you can tour if yu want to , but it is hardly meant for touring. The proof is in how few 690 riders actually go far on them.

So despite the thread heading, there is no comparison between them, and not because one is better than the other, but because all the ones shortcomings is the other's strongpoints, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: igeorge on February 21, 2014, 04:03:51 pm
So where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: jaybiker on February 21, 2014, 04:04:50 pm
What do we want?.........Everything!  :thumleft:

When do we want it?.........All the time!  :thumleft:


Why can't we have it?.........That's the bastard!!  :xxbah:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 21, 2014, 04:08:06 pm
So wher

Now where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??

Now you are talking! That is a legend bike and has done many trans Africa trips and in my eyes the best of both worlds. Pity (real pity) KTM has not followed up with another model. That is why there is a need for the 'Oryx kit' and other simular on the 690 but it will never be a 640. The focuss is on what the European market demands....... Afrika suig aan die agterspeen
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 04:57:36 pm
So where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??

IMO the most complete adventure bike ever built. Niggles and all.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Operator on February 21, 2014, 05:02:25 pm
So where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??

IMO the most complete adventure bike ever built. Niggles and all.


............amper soos 'n Alfa  :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: badseed on February 21, 2014, 05:05:44 pm
The question not answered is why so many low mileage 690's around for sale. I got one with 104kms , Baas Attie got one with 300kms last week and Rudy also with about 300kms, all for huge discount prices.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 05:10:44 pm
The question not answered is why so many low mileage 690's around for sale. I got one with 104kms , Baas Attie got one with 300kms last week and Rudy also with about 300kms, all for huge discount prices.


This is what led me to believe that while the 690 is witout doubt an exciting bike, it is not an everyday bike. I used to commute between Stellenbosch and Bellville on a 1984 Suzuki RM465, and while very exciting, it was not an easy bike to live with.
People greatly misunderstand the nature of the 690, and buy it thinking that you can just doddle around on it like a XT. It is always awake. :eek7:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: badseed on February 21, 2014, 05:15:19 pm
Even if the XTZ is the same price as a Gs800 or Triumph 800 if your focus is offroad touring the XTZ is built for that application , while the other two are road bikes that are capable offroad. Perhaps the spec sheet gives there weights as similar the ride and layout are poles apart. The XTZ looks , feels and rides like a much lighter enduro type bike while the other two are heavy front end road type feels.I'll gladly take a XTZ around a muddy mx track ( all be it slowly) but no way will I try on the other two. When Yamaha launched the XTZ Baas Attie and myself spent a couple of hours on the two demos around the Helderberg  farms on some rough trails and sand and the bikes were so confidence enspiring  and never felt there weight.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Kriestoe on February 21, 2014, 06:29:39 pm
What even brought up this thread I don't know. Different applications people, these are not difficult concepts to understand. For someone who's had 690R for three years now, after having had a 990, Dakar, etc here is why I have it, love it and treasure it.
1. I don't want to ride 400km a day on tar but if I really wanted to, it could do it, although wont be much fun. Would rather do dirt routes.
2. If I had to do 400km on dirt, I would choose nothing else
3. I ride plenty dirt and wanted the lightest, best suspension etc
4. I never ride with panniers etc - one Giant Loop type bag is enough
5. It is always fun to ride and commuting 20km a day through hectic traffic is a breeze
6. when conditions get really tough on dirt, which would you rather be on?
7. Heavy bikes are a waste for this specific application and lots return to lighter bikes after a while
8. every day when I see it, I'm reminded why I love it
9. No pillion
Considering the above, the 690 R has a specific market for what it offers. It is what I wanted from a bike. AND it does what it says on the box unlike others who brand their bikes ENDURO when it's far from it.
Had NO problems other than a blown globe. It's not fuel efficient and I don't care. There are scooters for that.

Sting, moet jou Afrikaanse tweeling wees, jou redes is al my redes hoekom ek 690 ry.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Rough Rider on February 21, 2014, 07:39:29 pm
I own a standard suspended XT600E, and while it is woefully inadequate at Macassar's whoops, I find this the best touring suspension you can find.

This is what TVB and some can not grasp, for touring you do not need to do whoops, jumps, etc, you need plush suspension.
The bigger the fork diameter, the more stiction you will find, simply due to seal friction area, fork bushings with greater area, etc. This is why these KTM forks on a light bike like the 690 need to be revalved to try and cope with dirtroad corrugations, ripples, etc.

I find my XT suspension so good for normal touring that I would not change anything on it. Plush, it just soaks up all ripples and corrugations in a road.

Everything is compromises. The harder the hit your forks can take, the harder they will have to be, and the more you feel road unevenness. This is the tiring factor when doing long
distance riding. Wrist fatigue, and possibly why I hardly ever see long distance reports by riders on 690's.

With due respect 2SD you are talking nonsence in this post. The suspension on an XT600E is woeful full stop; no matter what surface you ride the bike on. I too owned a XT600E for quite a few years, and unlike you I had a bit of work done on the suspension.

Even so I still kakked myself everytime I was on a rough dirt road at any kind of speed because I knew the suspension could not handle it. It took me quite sometime to work out that the dings in the underside of my exhaust were being caused by the rear brake caliper hitting it. I mean for fucks sakes man.

My 610 on the other hand also has plush suspension, but will not bottom out or do anything funny, I can ride straight and not worry about avoiding the obsticles like I had to on the XT (my SE is also good but not as good as the 610).

One good thing about the XT is the steel rims, everytime I bashed one square I could stop and donner it round again with a rock. But then again a bike with good suspension and quality rims does not experience damaged rims so much.  

A bit off the topic I know; the only real solution is to have a garage full of bikes, one for each occasion. Having said that even if I had 13 bikes, which I worked out is the number that covers every possibility I would not have a XTZ as one of them. I would however probably have a 690 and that's only because the 610 is no longer made.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 21, 2014, 09:19:57 pm
Rough Rider,

With all due respect, read my post again, I said TOURING suspension, iow when calmly riding through Baviaans or the Sederberge, I actually stated that the suspension was
"woefully inadequate" for Macassar's whoops. Maybe you just missed that in my post but it is there. ;)

If your caliper hit your exhaust on full rear suspension compression, your exhaust is fitted in the wrong position! This much should be obvious!! :eek7: Your suspension should hit NOTHING going through it's full stroke!!

The one point you see as good on the XT, the steel rims, is actually the parts on a XT that is not good, actually cheap and nasty.

I have been riding my XT for a good few years, only one small ding on my front rim. Now either you are much quicker than me on a similar bike, or you do not look too good. :snorting:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Cheeky on February 21, 2014, 11:49:24 pm
The 690 is indeed the best roadworthy offroad bike by a long margin. Suspension, power and chassis is in a class of it's own.
But this is where it ends, it cannot be compared to KLR, XT-Z, which was built for touring.

It is a common mistake here to want to choose a 650class bike, and throwing the 690 in with the others in this class. The 690 actually belongs to the playbike class, for just like with a 450WR, you can tour if yu want to , but it is hardly meant for touring. The proof is in how few 690 riders actually go far on them.

So despite the thread heading, there is no comparison between them, and not because one is better than the other, but because all the ones shortcomings is the other's strongpoints, and vice versa.

Fuck, how many times are you still going to repeat this?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: zacapa on February 22, 2014, 02:12:15 am
Ous - you are all missing the point. I am working on my reply to this worthy thread but it may be a day or two for me to get there.
Other hectic shit has intervened which requires my attention - In the meantime I hope you go and rides your bikes of choice and stop
squabbling about a meaningless comparison that in the first place was a "non comparo"

XTZ - 690R without getting technical are different things to different people. Hurray for that :laughing4:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: buzzlightyear on February 22, 2014, 07:16:21 am
Rough rider with a name like that blaming the 600E for not being a tourer...
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: DirtyHarry on February 22, 2014, 07:47:36 am
Zacapa has got a point.
Go ride your bikes instead of getting on each others nerves.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Rough Rider on February 22, 2014, 08:26:46 am
Rough Rider,

With all due respect, read my post again, I said TOURING suspension, iow when calmly riding through Baviaans or the Sederberge, I actually stated that the suspension was
"woefully inadequate" for Macassar's whoops. Maybe you just missed that in my post but it is there. ;)

If your caliper hit your exhaust on full rear suspension compression, your exhaust is fitted in the wrong position! This much should be obvious!! :eek7: Your suspension should hit NOTHING going through it's full stroke!!

The one point you see as good on the XT, the steel rims, is actually the parts on a XT that is not good, actually cheap and nasty.

I have been riding my XT for a good few years, only one small ding on my front rim. Now either you are much quicker than me on a similar bike, or you do not look too good. :snorting:


Different strokes for different okes, I personally do not ride adventure bikes to smell the roses, or look at them for that matter  :lol8: I ride for the adrenilin rush.

I was being sarcastic about the steel rims  :bueller:

I had the exhaust fitted correctly and I had the correct shock spring fitted for my weight, I also always keep the sag set correctly on all my bikes.

I am certainly not the fastest rider out there but I do try to work on improving my riding skills all the time and I am getting better. Pity age will catch me before I catch Taddy  :ricky:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 22, 2014, 11:16:52 am
So where does this leave a bike like the 640 Adv??

IMO the most complete adventure bike ever built. Niggles and all.

I only put 50 000kms on my 640 but funny enough, apart from a few things rattling loose, it was by far the most reliable bike I've owned. Never needed anything apart from services and a bit of locktite. And like you said, the only adventure bike ever built that has everything you want. I'd buy one again in a heartbeat
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 22, 2014, 08:22:21 pm
The 690 is indeed the best roadworthy offroad bike by a long margin. Suspension, power and chassis is in a class of it's own.
But this is where it ends, it cannot be compared to KLR, XT-Z, which was built for touring.

It is a common mistake here to want to choose a 650class bike, and throwing the 690 in with the others in this class. The 690 actually belongs to the playbike class, for just like with a 450WR, you can tour if yu want to , but it is hardly meant for touring. The proof is in how few 690 riders actually go far on them.

So despite the thread heading, there is no comparison between them, and not because one is better than the other, but because all the ones shortcomings is the other's strongpoints, and vice versa.

Fuck, how many times are you still going to repeat this?


Until you get it into your thick skull. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Eddy81 on February 22, 2014, 10:37:11 pm
I sound like the xtz is getting a bit of a verbal hammering.  For me, it really isn't a bad bike at all!  It's jut that at R100 000.00 new I reckon it's way too expensive.  The Aprilia Pegaso sides the yamaha 650 motor,  yet the new price I think is R62 000.00.  It's got adjustable screen very nice for and finish etc.  how can there be such a massive price difference between bikes that use the same motors? 
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Operator on February 22, 2014, 11:02:09 pm
Everything 2StrokeDan said on this thread is the truth.

I agree with what he said about the 690  :thumleft:

I know........ I've ridden both and own a XTZ.



Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 23, 2014, 10:09:31 am
People seem to think that I am bashing the 690 here, do not think that. Let us look at pricing;

The 690 is a 100grand, and my general idea I get from everybody is that it is just an enduro bike? Or a short-distance commuter? Yet it is not deemed too expensive for this
limited use package?

After the 640, the TEN is the only purpose-built long distance offroad TOURING bike on offer from a major manufacturer. Before you shout KLR, go through the snob comments on this very forum, and ask yourself if you can ride a KLR. It is not called fugly, pooratech, etc because people lust after them. Personally the most underrated bike I think.
Go buy the DR, XR-L, and fit your LR tank and Fairing and racks, it is still a backyard built tourer. IMO very sufficient, but remember, you must pass WD snob scrutineering.

So if you want a purpose-built touring single with parts back-up, reliability and undeniably good looks, and you have the money, pay for the best.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 23, 2014, 11:20:42 am
 :imaposer: This 'praises you will only hear from the Yamaha worship bundle'
What did you do with the verse about kak cush drive rubbers, kak suspension, cracking frames and soft rims  :imaposer:
Nice looking bike but my so called pooratech fugly was a steal for R35K (2010 Low km model) and now with Racetech suspension I ride all over the place and enjoy every moment. I got more trust in the KLR engine than in the 660 and working with a guy with a proven Record of 145000km without anything other to do than general maintenance and the doo which cost under a R1000 bucks. I am not brand conscious or worshipping any brands so any comments with regards to a KLR will not hit any nerve

I wanted to say this earlier: your heading referring to Willddog style - you are a proud Wild Dog Yeah? I am!! :laughing4:
I was just wondering; do you expect all Wilddogs to agree on all you sentiment? Do families do agree just because the stubborn dad sometimes makes them to see through his eyes? NO they don't  :deal:

I told you earlier; it would be rather nice if you use your energy on the Wild dog site to share some of your mechanical experience like Le Cap is doing as a rather respectable contributor. You should have a lot to offer not true rather than this BS Debates  ???

 :snorting:

So maybe its time to move on now  :lol8:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 23, 2014, 11:33:54 am
:imaposer: This 'praises you will only hear from the Yamaha worship bundle'
What did you do with the verse about kak cush drive rubbers, kak suspension, cracking frames and soft rims  :imaposer:
Nice looking bike but my so called pooratech fugly was a steal for R35K (2010 Low km model) and now with Racetech suspension I ride all over the place and enjoy every moment. I got more trust in the KLR engine than in the 660 and working with a guy with a proven Record of 145000km without anything other to do than general maintenance and the doo which cost under a R1000 bucks. I am not brand conscious or worshipping any brands so any comments with regards to a KLR will not hit any nerve

I wanted to say this earlier: your heading referring to Willddog style - you are a proud Wild Dog Yeah? I am!! :laughing4:
I was just wondering; do you expect all Wilddogs to agree on all you sentiment? Do families do agree just because the stubborn dad sometimes makes them to see through his eyes? NO they don't  :deal:

I told you earlier; it would be rather nice if you use your energy on the Wild dog site to share some of your mechanical experience like Le Cap is doing as a rather respectable contributor. You should have a lot to offer not true rather than this BS Debates  ???

 :snorting:

So maybe its time to move on now  :lol8:

When one of the parties in a debate runs out of debating skills, they would love to see it time to move on.

Take a look around, I have always come up for KLR's, they are the best value for money tourers out there. Why are they so looked down upon by many though, when they
are very capable, economical, with all touring stuff factory fitted?
It really seems on this forum that the KLR is a bike to ride after dark, something to be ashamed of, I do not understand this sentiment around such a capable bike.
But it is fact that this motorcycle "snobbism" exists, and this unfortunately gives the trendy XT-Z reason to sell at R100 000.

Or perhaps buy a R100000 bicycle from Ettiene2T. :ricky:
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on February 23, 2014, 12:55:20 pm
seems like TVB has an axe to grind. I'm enjoying hearing the banter around this from everyone. dont agree with some of it but guess that what makes the world interesting. different view points.  stay on point gents!
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 23, 2014, 01:17:44 pm
When you put the XTZ in the 650 d/s tourer class, you open it up for much competition. Some cheap, some not, some air cool, some water cool. Many bikes fit that mould. The best pne for you will depend on your wallet and your definition of d/s touring.

Thats what makes the 690 unique. Apart from the XR 650r it doesn't really fit the above class.  Only Honda and KTM operates in that class. The rest are all tourers - yamaha included.

Not my cup of tea. These kind of enduro style bikes i prefer in smaller packages. But viva for diversity  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: badseed on February 23, 2014, 02:14:53 pm
Perhaps  TVB rides his axe (chopper) to much.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: badseed on February 23, 2014, 02:23:22 pm
I don't get the argument about the XTZ not being the only commercially available off road touring bike available at the moment. The 640 (best of its class ever) is the only other bike  available (2nd hand only).

The question is how important pure touring is to most of us. For me it's day tides and short tours that my 690 does the bus. DR/XR etc the same. .... But then most Wildogs  need cross continent bikes like GS1200  etc for a little off road sortie.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 23, 2014, 04:32:49 pm
When you put the XTZ in the 650 d/s tourer class, you open it up for much competition. Some cheap, some not, some air cool, some water cool. Many bikes fit that mould. The best pne for you will depend on your wallet and your definition of d/s touring.

Thats what makes the 690 unique. Apart from the XR 650r it doesn't really fit the above class.  Only Honda and KTM operates in that class. The rest are all tourers - yamaha included.

Not my cup of tea. These kind of enduro style bikes i prefer in smaller packages. But viva for diversity  :thumleft:

In the 650 class, there is only two bikes that I would classify under touring bikes. This is the 660 and KLR. Both come equipped to load and haul.
XR-R is long out of production, so cannot feature, and 690 is in a class on the opposite end of touring.

This does not mean you cannot slap a tank, rack and fairing on a DR, XR-L, Sertao, etc and go touring. You can.

So Kilroy, many bikes does not fit the touring mould in the 650 class, in fact, currently, only Yamaha offers a properly designed and thoroughly modern touring bike in the 650 class.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 23, 2014, 04:58:47 pm
I respectfully disagree.  Many bikes in this class is and was ideally suited for d/s touring . Some with many and some with few modifications necessary.

Most bikes touring Africa, Australia and the Americas are exactly that. From Dakars, DRs, XRs, Klrs, etc to TA 650 with its 21 inch spoked wheels. Most d/s bikes in this class are exactly that.

As i said, as evidence just search for okes d/s touring the world. No better example and evidence as that.  Your beloved XTZ is however a great bike and 100% suited for this application too. But you must be naive to think d/s touring in the 650 class is only reserved for yamahas?

Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 23, 2014, 05:53:42 pm
I respectfully disagree.  Many bikes in this class is and was ideally suited for d/s touring . Some with many and some with few modifications necessary.

Most bikes touring Africa, Australia and the Americas are exactly that. From Dakars, DRs, XRs, Klrs, etc to TA 650 with its 21 inch spoked wheels. Most d/s bikes in this class are exactly that.

As i said, as evidence just search for okes d/s touring the world. No better example and evidence as that.  Your beloved XTZ is however a great bike and 100% suited for this application too. But you must be naive to think d/s touring in the 650 class is only reserved for yamahas?



Do not twist my words, you're not in R+P now. :pot:

Yamaha builds the only modern, newly-designed 650class single touring bike. Fact. The other proper touring bike in this class, the KLR, is a continuation of a model that started in the early 90's. Can hardly expect them to cost the same. Just like the 1200GS WC does not cost the same as the aircooled only 1200GS. New designs, new tooling, etc.
A Frenschman toured through Africa on Yamaha R1, so yes, you can indeed tour on anything, just like you can use your hatchback car as a small bakkie.
But there is better tools out there, and if you wish to tour with a 650class single, the XT-Z is the best.
Buy, load, haul.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 23, 2014, 07:53:53 pm
Go and check what okes doing RTW d/s trips ride.  Thats surely the best example of d/s touring? Dont believe me - check the facts.
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on February 23, 2014, 09:30:16 pm
I think the point is getting lost. what I think is being said here is that yes many bikes have elements or abilities better than the tenere, most are aged and no longer in production in order to reasonably tour large improvements/modifications are required at a cost. where as the tenere off the floor is ready. sure with some drawbacks like suspension and weight etc we know its not without flaws. the tenere is relevant and current.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 23, 2014, 09:32:30 pm
Go and check what okes doing RTW d/s trips ride.  Thats surely the best example of d/s touring? Dont believe me - check the facts.

If I were to go on a D/S around the world trip, I would, even if money was no object, take a aircooled single to start with. XR-L, DR or XT600. The fact that guys doing RTW trips take what they already own, or decide to buy a cheaper or even 2nd hand bike, does not alter the fact that the 660Z is the only modern touring bike in the 650 class.
You mos know the old story of the bestseller, no guarantee that it is actually the best. Huisgenoot, Steve, BikeSA, BMW......... ;D
Title: Re:
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 23, 2014, 09:33:29 pm
I think the point is getting lost. what I think is being said here is that yes many bikes have elements or abilities better than the tenere, most are aged and no longer in production in order to reasonably tour large improvements/modifications are required at a cost. where as the tenere off the floor is ready. sure with some drawbacks like suspension and weight etc we know its not without flaws. the tenere is relevant and current.

Thank you Sir.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 24, 2014, 06:17:08 am
People seem to think that I am bashing the 690 here, do not think that. Let us look at pricing;

The 690 is a 100grand, and my general idea I get from everybody is that it is just an enduro bike? Or a short-distance commuter? Yet it is not deemed too expensive for this
limited use package?

After the 640, the TEN is the only purpose-built long distance offroad TOURING bike on offer from a major manufacturer. Before you shout KLR, go through the snob comments on this very forum, and ask yourself if you can ride a KLR. It is not called fugly, pooratech, etc because people lust after them. Personally the most underrated bike I think.
Go buy the DR, XR-L, and fit your LR tank and Fairing and racks, it is still a backyard built tourer. IMO very sufficient, but remember, you must pass WD snob scrutineering.

So if you want a purpose-built touring single with parts back-up, reliability and undeniably good looks, and you have the money, pay for the best.

I'm confused. On the one hand you say the XTZ is the only long distance tourer (i see no modern word used), but on the other you acknowledge aircooled ones available too. You mention that these are actually your choice for RTW touring but they do not pass the WD snob scrutineering test.

So are you saying that although you prefer a XRL/DR the XTZ is a WD poser/snob bike?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 07:18:12 am
People seem to think that I am bashing the 690 here, do not think that. Let us look at pricing;

The 690 is a 100grand, and my general idea I get from everybody is that it is just an enduro bike? Or a short-distance commuter? Yet it is not deemed too expensive for this
limited use package?

After the 640, the TEN is the only purpose-built long distance offroad TOURING bike on offer from a major manufacturer. Before you shout KLR, go through the snob comments on this very forum, and ask yourself if you can ride a KLR. It is not called fugly, pooratech, etc because people lust after them. Personally the most underrated bike I think.
Go buy the DR, XR-L, and fit your LR tank and Fairing and racks, it is still a backyard built tourer. IMO very sufficient, but remember, you must pass WD snob scrutineering.

So if you want a purpose-built touring single with parts back-up, reliability and undeniably good looks, and you have the money, pay for the best.

I'm confused. On the one hand you say the XTZ is the only long distance tourer (i see no modern word used), but on the other you acknowledge aircooled ones available too. You mention that these are actually your choice for RTW touring but they do not pass the WD snob scrutineering test.

So are you saying that although you prefer a XRL/DR the XTZ is a WD poser/snob bike?

Don't be confused. I said the XT-Z is the only NEWLY-DESIGNED long distance tourer in the 650 single class available today. Understand? You buy and you laat waai.
1. It is newly designed, from the ground up.
2. Frame even differs from the XT-R in that it is stronger in load-bearing places.
3. Few would say that it is not a very attractive design.
4. It has good fuel capacity for touring.
5. It has good wind protection.
6. It has good and strong luggage carrying ability and provision.
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.

You can work out from above list what a 690 would eventually cost you to get on par as tourer. KTM never intended the 690 to tour, as a playbike it is also then disqualified from this list of touring bikes.

DR650, XR-L, Sertao, Gaggle of Huskies/DRZ's/etc. Could be used for touring very successfully, but needs larger tanks, wind protection[which almost always looks backyard], and
luggage racks/frames.
Aside from all practical requirements attached to a touring bike, there is one undeniable factor which warrants the XT-Z's price; desirability. Yes, I can farkle my XT600E until it is a
touring supremo, it is still an old bike with stuff slapped on.
The KLR is still a poor man's fugly.

In today's world, unfortunately, there is a premium chargeable to be seen on something desirable. And if this machine comes correctly equipped for the task to boot, well it's
almost a bargain.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 24, 2014, 07:26:24 am
 :spitcoffee: daarshy, Daan het sy week begin deur n volstruis eier te le!  :pot: ..... En nooit homself 'weerspreek' nie, dis ons wat nie oplet in die klas nie ne ???

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 07:34:42 am
:spitcoffee: daarshy, Daan het sy week begin deur n volstruis eier te le!  :pot: ..... En nooit homself 'weerspreek' nie, dis ons wat nie oplet in die klas nie ne ???

 :thumleft:

Jy sal n Dinosourus eier moet le om te kan byhou, ou maat. Jy weerspreek jouself al so lank dat van die ander mense dink al jy het n "axe to grind"  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Gene on February 24, 2014, 07:42:42 am
Julle vergeet die BMW 650  X - Country ,een van die beste DS bikes en lig ,ongelukkig nie n toerfiets nie
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Mark Hardy on February 24, 2014, 08:01:10 am
I must say I really enjoyed the XTZ, myself and 2 mates were given 3 XTZ to ride for the day. we did about 300kms of varying terrain and the bike just soaked it all up. Yes the front suspension lacked when pushed and yes the rear suspension kicked up on occasions, but for the whole the suspension was great for touring. What I did really did miss was a 6th gear for the little tar we did. I suffer from mechanical sympathy and thought an extra gear would be a little gentler on the motor. The motor offers more than enough power and torque to get you where you wanted to go. Comfort wise I found the seat OK but the pegs seat handle bar position, sitting or standing, I found very comfortable. I love the look of the 660Z  :thumleft:

Here a couple of pics of where we rode. I have ridden the same route on the 950 and had just as much fun on the 660 as I did on the 950, just not as quick  >:D.

Wish I had had the opportunity to ride a 690 along the same route.  :(

  (http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride012.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride012.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride058.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride058.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride067.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride067.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride084.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride084.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride101.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride101.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride111.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride111.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride120.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride120.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride125.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride125.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride151.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride151.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride158.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride158.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride167.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride167.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride232.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride232.jpg.html)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd203/MooseMark/Demo%20Ride/demoride241.jpg) (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/MooseMark/media/Demo%20Ride/demoride241.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 24, 2014, 08:03:34 am
People seem to think that I am bashing the 690 here, do not think that. Let us look at pricing;

The 690 is a 100grand, and my general idea I get from everybody is that it is just an enduro bike? Or a short-distance commuter? Yet it is not deemed too expensive for this
limited use package?

After the 640, the TEN is the only purpose-built long distance offroad TOURING bike on offer from a major manufacturer. Before you shout KLR, go through the snob comments on this very forum, and ask yourself if you can ride a KLR. It is not called fugly, pooratech, etc because people lust after them. Personally the most underrated bike I think.
Go buy the DR, XR-L, and fit your LR tank and Fairing and racks, it is still a backyard built tourer. IMO very sufficient, but remember, you must pass WD snob scrutineering.

So if you want a purpose-built touring single with parts back-up, reliability and undeniably good looks, and you have the money, pay for the best.

I'm confused. On the one hand you say the XTZ is the only long distance tourer (i see no modern word used), but on the other you acknowledge aircooled ones available too. You mention that these are actually your choice for RTW touring but they do not pass the WD snob scrutineering test.

So are you saying that although you prefer a XRL/DR the XTZ is a WD poser/snob bike?

Don't be confused. I said the XT-Z is the only NEWLY-DESIGNED long distance tourer in the 650 single class available today. Understand? You buy and you laat waai.
1. It is newly designed, from the ground up.
2. Frame even differs from the XT-R in that it is stronger in load-bearing places.
3. Few would say that it is not a very attractive design.
4. It has good fuel capacity for touring.
5. It has good wind protection.
6. It has good and strong luggage carrying ability and provision.
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.

You can work out from above list what a 690 would eventually cost you to get on par as tourer. KTM never intended the 690 to tour, as a playbike it is also then disqualified from this list of touring bikes.

DR650, XR-L, Sertao, Gaggle of Huskies/DRZ's/etc. Could be used for touring very successfully, but needs larger tanks, wind protection[which almost always looks backyard], and
luggage racks/frames.
Aside from all practical requirements attached to a touring bike, there is one undeniable factor which warrants the XT-Z's price; desirability. Yes, I can farkle my XT600E until it is a
touring supremo, it is still an old bike with stuff slapped on.
The KLR is still a poor man's fugly.

In today's world, unfortunately, there is a premium chargeable to be seen on something desirable. And if this machine comes correctly equipped for the task to boot, well it's
almost a bargain.

Sorry, seems to have missed the 'newly designed' part in your post above. Like a KLR fairing that comment was retro fitted.  

The last manufacturer who brings out a bike in a specific class will always have the latest 'newly designed' bike.  In this case a very capable and likable Yamaha, albeit at a the price of a BMW or worse.  Fortunately there are many more d/s tourers available in the 650 class. Some of them even with proven RTW touring credentials. It takes 10 years to build a 10y proven track record of capability and reliability. Even if you have a newly designed bike with a not so newly designed MZ/Rapture motor dating from 1991 if i'm not mistaken?

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/designcafe/en/about-bikes/classics/index.aspx?view=article&id=442639&segment=&archive=false&page=2 (http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/designcafe/en/about-bikes/classics/index.aspx?view=article&id=442639&segment=&archive=false&page=2)

Kudus for the engine ito longevity. Much like the KLR? But modern, sadly no...
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: alanB on February 24, 2014, 08:09:07 am
Arguing with 2SD about the merits of any Yamaha is like arguing with the earth about gravity, but anyway here goes....

I looked at the XTZ when I finally realised I hated my Dakar.  It looked nice, I sat on it in the shops and made "broom broom" noises, the brochures were as slick as the BMW brochures, I took them home and read them from cover to cover, started to get that buyng feeling etc - but then I realised it was just more of the same - a big heavy road bike pretending to be an off road bike.  It was basically a modern version of the BMW.  And I realised I would grow to hate it just like the Dakar so I dropped that idea.

I then rode a mate's 690 and immediately realised that is the sort of thing that I wanted.  It just was the real macoy IMO, light, powerful, handled well, was fun to ride, could handle dirt well, could cruise well on tar - the Dakar felt like a drunken hippo in comparison!

I looked for something similar to the 690 and eventually found the 610 and we all lived happily ever after.

People who say you cant tour on a smaller lighter bike are wrong IMO!   Maybe THEY cant tour on a small bike, for what ever reason, but there is no physical reason why it cant be done.  It just comes down to what you like and what you want out of your bike.

To me the 690 is the only REAL DS bike currently in production.  I say that because it can REALLY do offroad as well as on road (ie DUAL SPORT) - which is what I want to do.  

I wish they would make more bikes in this class.

You cant really compare the 690 to a XTZ, they are worlds apart - and long may that continue IMO!
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: lecap on February 24, 2014, 08:11:18 am
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 08:41:13 am
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:


What does the 660 share with the XT500? The air that flows around it's engine? :imaposer:

I never ridicule KLR's......EVER.

The Sertao is a carthorse without shoeshine.

The side impact panels are new to a D/S bike, which a Pan-Euro certainly was not.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 08:45:37 am
Mark Hardy's post here are very relevant, not because he says what I have been saying, but because someone with great ability and experience is valueing the XT-Z for what it is designed to do.
And Mark likes it.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 24, 2014, 08:50:08 am
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:

I just love this, who can argue with this from a man who knows what he is talking about!
You just can't beat knowledge, experience and honesty


 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Garfield on February 24, 2014, 08:53:36 am
Mark Hardy's post here are very relevant, not because he says what I have been saying, but because someone with great ability and experience is valueing the XT-Z for what it is designed to do.
And Mark likes it.

Just so I understand this, are you saying posts that agree with you are relevant and posts that disagree are not?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: IceCreamMan on February 24, 2014, 08:59:38 am
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 24, 2014, 09:07:18 am
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...


Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 24, 2014, 09:11:06 am
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...


Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders

 :thumleft: +3
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: cocky on February 24, 2014, 09:11:29 am
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...


Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders
Stem 100% saam Dwerg. :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 24, 2014, 09:16:21 am
 :3some: pity i thought the debate between a Z and 690 would have ended a lot better in which we all agree and have a beer...  :deal: :imaposer: :peepwall:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Mark Hardy on February 24, 2014, 09:21:15 am
Ja but which beer is the best...... >:D
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: IceCreamMan on February 24, 2014, 09:24:17 am
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...


Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders

I bet u love Bieber too hey ...

Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 24, 2014, 09:25:00 am
hands down. without a doubt. above any other beer ever made in the history of beers since the beginning of beer 'windy corner' is the winner. anyone else who disagrees with that doesn't know beer. :pot:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 24, 2014, 09:25:39 am
 
Ja but which beer is the best...... >:D

:spitcoffee:
Let's wait, Daan will soon tell....
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 24, 2014, 09:34:00 am
I bet u haters listen to Bieber too hey...

what a seriously kark thread, mods delete it ...please ...
Moet die mods die thread sommer delete oor dat U Hoogheid nie van hom hou nie  ??? ::) ::)

As ons 'n thread moes delete elke keer wat iemand kak praat oor 'n bwm was daar fokol op die forum so as jy dit nie like nie, lees iets anders

I bet u love Bieber too hey ...

I like him more than people who never contribute to ride reports, never have constructive input, yet still shit on everything else  :deal:

(Oh and if you don't get the hint, I am talking about you)

Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 24, 2014, 09:37:38 am
I like this debate thank you

And actually I agree with most 2SD is saying.  The XTZ is a new bike with an old engine - so its 50% 'newly designed'.  Is that a bad thing?  By all means no.  Nothing wrong with an adequate older but proven motor in a new guise.  The KLR's motor imo is not 100% adequate at altitude for highway riding.  I had one for nearly 5 years - but it was the old shape one.  the 660 is a better performing one.

If I had money to through around I would buy a XTZ without a doubt.  Think the bike is ideal for d/s touring.  But spending more that R100k on a old mill in a new guise is not for me.  

The 690 imo is something special.  Its unique and more suited to Africa's 'hardebaarde' who were bitching about bikes only being made for Europe's streets.  Last time something like this came out was the 640 and XR650r.  Yamaha does not have anything in this market.  The are focusing on the 450 market in this guise it seems?

I would like both the 690 and XTZ in my garage if possible. But will still use the XR4 or Xr250 at makekeng's trails though.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: cocky on February 24, 2014, 09:40:18 am
I like this debate thank you

And actually I agree with most 2SD is saying.  The XTZ is a new bike with an old engine - so its 50% 'newly designed'.  Is that a bad thing?  By all means no.  Nothing wrong with an adequate older but proven motor in a new guise.  The KLR's motor imo is not 100% adequate at altitude for highway riding.  I had one for nearly 5 years - but it was the old shape one.  the 660 is a better performing one.

If I had money to through around I would buy a XTZ without a doubt.  Think the bike is ideal for d/s touring.  But spending more that R100k on a old mill in a new guise is not for me.  

The 690 imo is something special.  Its unique and more suited to Africa's 'hardebaarde' who were bitching about bikes only being made for Europe's streets.  Last time something like this came out was the 640 and XR650r.  Yamaha does not have anything in this market.  The are focusing on the 450 market in this guise it seems?

I would like both the 690 and XTZ in my garage if possible. But will still use the XR4 or Xr250 at makekeng's trails though.
Draad sitter :peepwall:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: jaybiker on February 24, 2014, 09:44:07 am
 
Ja but which beer is the best...... >:D

:spitcoffee:
Let's wait, Daan will soon tell....

Look, these dopey old farts still dreaming of the good old days of German/ British/ Belgian/Namibian beer will eventually have to concede that Japanese beer is best.
And the Chinese may flood the market with their cheap and nasty rubbish , but it will be many years before they come right.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 24, 2014, 09:45:38 am
When the 660Z came out, I actually wanted one with everything in me. I tried to arange a test ride for months but Yamaha didn't come to the party. I then ended up buying a 640 for about 40% of the price of a new Z

EDIT: And it was the best forced decision I ever made  ;D
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 24, 2014, 09:50:22 am
I like this debate thank you

And actually I agree with most 2SD is saying.  The XTZ is a new bike with an old engine - so its 50% 'newly designed'.  Is that a bad thing?  By all means no.  Nothing wrong with an adequate older but proven motor in a new guise.  The KLR's motor imo is not 100% adequate at altitude for highway riding.  I had one for nearly 5 years - but it was the old shape one.  the 660 is a better performing one.

If I had money to through around I would buy a XTZ without a doubt.  Think the bike is ideal for d/s touring.  But spending more that R100k on a old mill in a new guise is not for me.  

The 690 imo is something special.  Its unique and more suited to Africa's 'hardebaarde' who were bitching about bikes only being made for Europe's streets.  Last time something like this came out was the 640 and XR650r.  Yamaha does not have anything in this market.  The are focusing on the 450 market in this guise it seems?

I would like both the 690 and XTZ in my garage if possible. But will still use the XR4 or Xr250 at makekeng's trails though.
Draad sitter :peepwall:

draad trekker
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Veldbrand on February 24, 2014, 09:56:26 am

Draad sitter :peepwall:

draad trekker
Wooly, help gou hier, o ja wag...
Bedoel jy draad trekker soos in draad kar of treker soos in Carrots?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 24, 2014, 10:00:11 am
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=145478.msg2778605#msg2778605 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=145478.msg2778605#msg2778605)

 :peepwall: ;)
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 24, 2014, 10:01:30 am

Draad sitter :peepwall:

draad trekker
Wooly, help gou hier, o ja wag...
Bedoel jy draad trekker soos in draad kar of treker soos in Carrots?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: cocky on February 24, 2014, 10:03:14 am
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=145478.msg2778605#msg2778605 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=145478.msg2778605#msg2778605)

 :peepwall: ;)
Speel mooi, toe nou!
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: IceCreamMan on February 24, 2014, 10:23:38 am
When the 660Z came out, I actually wanted one with everything in me. I tried to arange a test ride for months but Yamaha didn't come to the party. I then ended up buying a 640 for about 40% of the price of a new Z

EDIT: And it was the best forced decision I ever made  ;D

and we can still tell how acid you are about it
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: lecap on February 24, 2014, 10:29:16 am
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:


What does the 660 share with the XT500? The air that flows around it's engine? :imaposer:

...

The Sertao is a carthorse without shoeshine.

...

The crappy rattle-myself-loose primary gear nut and lock washer ::)

The Sertao an old cart horse without shoe shine - that is funny :evil6:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Straatkat on February 24, 2014, 11:27:16 am
It seems everyone on this forum is searching for the ONE bike that can do it all, well guess what, it does not exist. Just like there is no one handgun caliber that can do it all, or one tyre that can do it all,or the best beer, we all buy the bike that suits us the best, and it might not be the best in all aspects, but it works very well for our intended purpose, and OK-ish for the other stuff.  And what is this obsession with all things new, everything is a version of what went before, nothing is absolutely new, and with good cause, because at least it has been tested by time and is reliable. Mark loves his pink 950, Alan loves his 610, and Dan loves "Yamaha". Each to his own. I am sure the 690 is a very good bike for it's intended purpose, and the Tenere for it's purpose, myself, I get the fever for a new bike every so often, like most of us do, but at the moment I need a bike that crashes well, I seem to do that often!
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 11:41:22 am
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:

I just love this, who can argue with this from a man who knows what he is talking about!
You just can't beat knowledge, experience and honesty


 :thumleft:

But a opinion from someone like Mark Hardy goes straight over your head?  Garfield should direct his "relevance" question to you.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 11:49:03 am
Mark Hardy's post here are very relevant, not because he says what I have been saying, but because someone with great ability and experience is valueing the XT-Z for what it is designed to do.
And Mark likes it.

Just so I understand this, are you saying posts that agree with you are relevant and posts that disagree are not?


The explanation is in that very paragraph you put into question.........."because someone with great ability and experience is valueing [evaluating] the XT-Z"
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 11:50:58 am
 
Ja but which beer is the best...... >:D

:spitcoffee:
Let's wait, Daan will soon tell....

Sorry to disappoint, knows little on the beer topic. Always order Heineken, Amstel or Nastro Azzurro. :deal:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 11:53:23 am
Well, I guess now that all the heavyweights on Wilddogs agree that the 660XT-Z is the best tool for it's intended purpose, namely touring, we can all relax.

Thank you.





 :pot:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: TVB on February 24, 2014, 11:57:47 am
 
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:

I just love this, who can argue with this from a man who knows what he is talking about!
You just can't beat knowledge, experience and honesty


 :thumleft:

But a opinion from someone like Mark Hardy goes straight over your head?  Garfield should direct his "relevance" question to you.

What are you trying to achoeve here Daan? Rub up WD memberas agains each other ??? So it seems.

Does this mean so much to you?

Or aspirating towards some idiot of the month award maybe?

Lighten up, it is not the end of the world if some of us don't like most of you posts :imaposer:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Garfield on February 24, 2014, 12:09:53 pm
Mark Hardy's post here are very relevant, not because he says what I have been saying, but because someone with great ability and experience is valueing the XT-Z for what it is designed to do.
And Mark likes it.

Just so I understand this, are you saying posts that agree with you are relevant and posts that disagree are not?


The explanation is in that very paragraph you put into question.........."because someone with great ability and experience is valueing [evaluating] the XT-Z"

Thanks, since I am new here I have no idea who the experienced guys with valuable opinions are, and also having very limited riding experience myself, I just wanted to make sure  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Buff on February 24, 2014, 12:29:42 pm
Ok, so I had a 660Z and loved it. It was no fire cracker though, besides the backfiring out those twin Leo Vince pipes.
It was a great all-rounder but the suspension was lacking for sure. You also never had the kind of power on tap that would allow you to drop a gear and loft the front over a washouts etc. Never less I really enjoyed the bike, the only frustration l had was the headshake at 140km/h that I was never able to get rid of despite trying everything. And then you have the legendary Yamaha reliabilityÖ which wasnít so legendary after the motor had to be completely redone after dust ingress on that recalled air filter issue  ::)

After selling my Super10 I made the mistake of spending some time riding GJís and another mate Derricks KTM690ís. Now this is a way different beast. The seating position feels like an enduro bike. You get the immediate impression this bike wants to be ridden aggressively. I suck at wheelies but I can loft the front wheel at leisure on this bike. ComfortÖ not so much. ReliabilityÖ. Not so much. You need only spend some time trolling the web to realise that buying a good 690 is a hit and miss affair. Some bikes with less that 2000kmís on the clocks have spent more time on mechanics benches than on the road.

Iím agreeing with 2StrokeDan 100% here, two very different bikes with 2 very different purposes.

And if you havenít owned either one or spent some time riding both, you really shouldnít be contributing to the discussion should you?

Iíll be placing my 690 order shortly  :o
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Garfield on February 24, 2014, 12:47:14 pm
You get the immediate impression this bike wants to be ridden aggressively. I suck at wheelies but I can loft the front wheel at leisure on this bike.

Now this leads me to a question.

I also owned a 660Z and did just over 10000km on that on varied roads/paths (some would classify the paths as off-road).
Three weekends back I had the opportunity to play with a standard 690 for a day, also on varied roads/paths i.e. similar terrain I have ridden my 660Z on.
The 690 has around 2500km on the clock and has had a few issues in that time, but that is a different story.

The question I have is because the 690 was a bit of a disappointment to me personally, I was expecting more of it in the performance arena (I am not a great rider, average at best, but compare the performance with other bikes I have ridden).

I really also wanted a 690, but this has put me off somewhat.

So, is there possibly something wrong with this specific 690, and if so, what could it be?

Disclaimer: 690 owners please don't lynch me, this is a serious question and not intended to stir.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: KiLRoy on February 24, 2014, 01:30:07 pm
In my opinion big road legal enduro-type machines will never be full enduro bikes.  For me personally a bike weighing around 150 and above is too heavy for enduro work.  I guess there benefit comes in if you want to ride it so say a venue 200kms away and do some serious trail riding instead of trailering it. 

Smaller XR4/DRZ type bikes make more sense imo.  But thats just me, I have seen okes doing special things on HP2s and SEs.  I just like the smaller bikes for that application.

Had the XR250 drop into an erosion hole at Makekeng.  On a big bike I would have to go call help to get it out.  On the 250 I just picked the bike's rear out of the hole.  Ok, like 2SD is ek moer sterk ;) ;D

Swifty had the best comment here ---- these bikes I love em all
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Buff on February 24, 2014, 02:19:11 pm
You get the immediate impression this bike wants to be ridden aggressively. I suck at wheelies but I can loft the front wheel at leisure on this bike.

So, is there possibly something wrong with this specific 690, and if so, what could it be?

Quite possible.

GJ will give you more info but the 690's are famous for their fuel injectors clogging up and affecting performance. An inline fuel filter helps.
An Akro pipe also makes a big difference in performance.

I might be mistaken but they have a mapping switch under the seat as well, maybe that one was dialed down from wild to mild?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 24, 2014, 02:36:27 pm
You get the immediate impression this bike wants to be ridden aggressively. I suck at wheelies but I can loft the front wheel at leisure on this bike.

So, is there possibly something wrong with this specific 690, and if so, what could it be?

Quite possible.

GJ will give you more info but the 690's are famous for their fuel injectors clogging up and affecting performance. An inline fuel filter helps.
An Akro pipe also makes a big difference in performance.

I might be mistaken but they have a mapping switch under the seat as well, maybe that one was dialed down from wild to mild?
well this thread is getting too informative.  :deal: can we declare the tenere the best and move on now?  :imaposer: :peepwall: :ricky:
good times! secretly wish i had both.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 04:04:57 pm
You get the immediate impression this bike wants to be ridden aggressively. I suck at wheelies but I can loft the front wheel at leisure on this bike.

Now this leads me to a question.

I also owned a 660Z and did just over 10000km on that on varied roads/paths (some would classify the paths as off-road).
Three weekends back I had the opportunity to play with a standard 690 for a day, also on varied roads/paths i.e. similar terrain I have ridden my 660Z on.
The 690 has around 2500km on the clock and has had a few issues in that time, but that is a different story.

The question I have is because the 690 was a bit of a disappointment to me personally, I was expecting more of it in the performance arena (I am not a great rider, average at best, but compare the performance with other bikes I have ridden).

I really also wanted a 690, but this has put me off somewhat.

So, is there possibly something wrong with this specific 690, and if so, what could it be?

Disclaimer: 690 owners please don't lynch me, this is a serious question and not intended to stir.


Garfield, my guess, like Buff's, would be that the ignition mapping selector is dialled to the mildest setting. A 690 could never disappoint if performance is what you are after.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Garfield on February 24, 2014, 04:09:09 pm
You get the immediate impression this bike wants to be ridden aggressively. I suck at wheelies but I can loft the front wheel at leisure on this bike.

Now this leads me to a question.

I also owned a 660Z and did just over 10000km on that on varied roads/paths (some would classify the paths as off-road).
Three weekends back I had the opportunity to play with a standard 690 for a day, also on varied roads/paths i.e. similar terrain I have ridden my 660Z on.
The 690 has around 2500km on the clock and has had a few issues in that time, but that is a different story.

The question I have is because the 690 was a bit of a disappointment to me personally, I was expecting more of it in the performance arena (I am not a great rider, average at best, but compare the performance with other bikes I have ridden).

I really also wanted a 690, but this has put me off somewhat.

So, is there possibly something wrong with this specific 690, and if so, what could it be?

Disclaimer: 690 owners please don't lynch me, this is a serious question and not intended to stir.


Garfield, my guess, like Buff's, would be that the ignition mapping selector is dialled to the mildest setting. A 690 could never disappoint if performance is what you are after.

Thanks Buff and 2SD, that could explain, will ask the owner to check and give me another opportunity to go and play.

Of course if that was the case my wife is not going to be happy since it would put the 690 back on the list again  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 04:14:09 pm
...1. It is newly designed, from the ground up
...
7. It has factory fitted and replaceble side-impact panels, a new and valuable foresight on a bike like this.
...

:laughing4:

The XT660Z engine is so new it still shares components with the XT500. And you dare to ridicule KLR's ??? The Minarelli 660 is an upgraded and bored out XT500 mill with bolt on liquid cooling :evil6:

The KLR mill being related to Kawasakis 1984's DOHC 16V liquid cooled inline fours originates almost a decade later than the XT :D

Do you call the BMW G650Sertao a newly designed bike or an old cart horse with a shoeshine job ???



The side impact panels are at least as new as the Honda ST1100 Pan European. 24 years to be precise. :lol8:

I just love this, who can argue with this from a man who knows what he is talking about!
You just can't beat knowledge, experience and honesty


 :thumleft:

But a opinion from someone like Mark Hardy goes straight over your head?  Garfield should direct his "relevance" question to you.

What are you trying to achoeve here Daan? Rub up WD memberas agains each other ??? So it seems.

Does this mean so much to you?

Or aspirating towards some idiot of the month award maybe?

Lighten up, it is not the end of the world if some of us don't like most of you posts :imaposer:

I need to lighten up, my wife reckons about 10KGs should do it........ :imaposer:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 24, 2014, 04:17:12 pm
Garfield the different models also have different power. The 690E had much less power. You only get the R now and like the others have said, even then the mapping was most likely dialed down. The 690R makes almost 50% more power than a 650gs for example and weighs about 40 kays less. I've not tested yet but in a drag race on tar it will probably stay with my 800gs until it starts running out of legs
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Ganjora on February 24, 2014, 04:19:55 pm
I've not tested yet but in a drag race on tar it will probably stay with my 800gs until it starts running out of legs

the 690 is insanely quick.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 24, 2014, 04:22:44 pm
I've not tested yet but in a drag race on tar it will probably stay with my 800gs until it starts running out of legs

the 690 is insanely quick.

Yep it will probably nail the 800 off the line if you can keep the front down  :ricky:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 04:23:04 pm
I remember GJ actually staying with an 800GS up to I think an indicated 175.

GJ, come enlighten us.

O, he's probably standing somewhere along the road cleaning out that pesky injector. :imaposer:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Bensien on February 24, 2014, 05:09:25 pm
I have never owned either bike, but that does not seem to make me less qualified than most people here.

My biggest gripe with the 660 Tenere is that it weighs 185kg dry . Thatís more than an 800GS, 950SE or HP2. So it has all the disadvantages of both a 650 class single and a big twin, and none of the benefits. While the engine, suspension and other components are not bad, they are not outstanding either.

The 690ís engine is considered by many to be the best single cylinder ever made. The bike also has top of the line components and a lot of effort has gone into making it as light as possible. So at least you know why it costs as much as it does.
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on February 24, 2014, 05:14:16 pm
indeed. 690 is an animal. but if you were honest and did everything to the extreme the tenere will tick every single box.
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on February 24, 2014, 05:15:04 pm
obviously taking the total benefits into account
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: IceCreamMan on February 24, 2014, 05:15:27 pm
I have never owned either bike, but that does not seem to make me less qualified than most people here


Appears you are over qualified  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Karel Kat on February 24, 2014, 05:32:37 pm
OK here's my little contribution: I think the 660Z is the prettiest DS bike out there and was seriously thinking about getting one once. However, I still think it is a bit expensive for what you get.

Now: I don't know if you are familiar with the turnoff to Witsand about 4km's west of Heidelberg. I once dragged a 660Z for those few kilometers up that steepish incline and he barely managed to stay with the ancient 2005 KLR. OK, the KLR is geared a little bit shorter than stock, but still. I did not expect it. The other rider admitted to going full taps and unsuccessfully trying to catch me.

Have I shaken your worlds? Thought not.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Dwerg on February 24, 2014, 05:44:13 pm
I'd love to know why didn't ktm just put the 690 motor in the 640 frame and sell that? I would've been in line for on even if the design stayed the same
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: GJ on February 24, 2014, 05:53:00 pm
I remember GJ actually staying with an 800GS up to I think an indicated 175.

GJ, come enlighten us.

O, he's probably standing somewhere along the road cleaning out that pesky injector. :imaposer:


Wat brand volgende, ek los julle ma wat so klomp kak praat, dis altyd interesant om te sien die ouens wat nie 690 het nie weet altyd die meeste.so ry ma jou yammie
Title: Re: Re: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 24, 2014, 06:29:42 pm
OK here's my little contribution: I think the 660Z is the prettiest DS bike out there and was seriously thinking about getting one once. However, I still think it is a bit expensive for what you get.

Now: I don't know if you are familiar with the turnoff to Witsand about 4km's west of Heidelberg. I once dragged a 660Z for those few kilometers up that steepish incline and he barely managed to stay with the ancient 2005 KLR. OK, the KLR is geared a little bit shorter than stock, but still. I did not expect it. The other rider admitted to going full taps and unsuccessfully trying to catch me.

Have I shaken your worlds? Thought not.
mmmm I played once with my sprockets. took 20 years off
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Herminator on February 24, 2014, 06:37:58 pm
(http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/2414512.jpg)
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 07:30:23 pm
I'd love to know why didn't ktm just put the 690 motor in the 640 frame and sell that? I would've been in line for on even if the design stayed the same

This must rate as one of the more serious mistakes, IMO, from the Austrian company. Why not a 690 Adventure?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: roxenz on February 24, 2014, 08:08:05 pm
I do think the XTZ is overpriced. (shock, horror)  But then I don't know of any bike at that price I'd rather have than the XTZ.

So I guess I'll just have to work harder to afford a new one in a few years, since I've already put 45000 trouble-free kms on my current one in 3 years...
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Operator on February 24, 2014, 08:19:44 pm
I must still meet a person that buy a new KTM 690 and that is still the owner of the bike
with more than 30 000 km on the clock.  :patch:   :pot: 

:spitcoffee:
Title: Re: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: dirtyXT on February 24, 2014, 08:34:02 pm
ah the tide is turning. so that's it then xtz best bike ever bar none. phew close one fellas. ;-)
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Rough Rider on February 24, 2014, 09:15:50 pm
My 690 was the biggest dog of a bike I have ever owned and it really has put me off KTM for life.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: badseed on February 24, 2014, 09:17:15 pm
Both Baas Attie and GJ have long passed the 30000 mark. I've had mine 4 months and just passed 10000. Considering I use the 990 daily and only use the 690 for trips I think the 690 is a very able kilometer eater.

Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: badseed on February 24, 2014, 09:25:08 pm
I think the weight comparisons of the XTZ and the other bikes might be misleading. I've ridden all the bikes mentioned off road and the XTZ feels way lighter. Are all the bikes weighed with fuel and all etc. , or is the weight better distributed on the Yammie.

Weight on a dual sport bike can be both an advantage and disadvantage. Part of what makes the 690 such a great bike is its lack of weight , but this also makes it a bit of a handful on hard fast bumpy surfaces.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 24, 2014, 09:41:19 pm
I remember GJ actually staying with an 800GS up to I think an indicated 175.

GJ, come enlighten us.

O, he's probably standing somewhere along the road cleaning out that pesky injector. :imaposer:


Wat brand volgende, ek los julle ma wat so klomp kak praat, dis altyd interesant om te sien die ouens wat nie 690 het nie weet altyd die meeste.so ry ma jou yammie

Leer nou n slag tik, dan kan jy lekker saamgesels. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: GJ on February 24, 2014, 11:00:59 pm
I remember GJ actually staying with an 800GS up to I think an indicated 175.

GJ, come enlighten us.

O, he's probably standing somewhere along the road cleaning out that pesky injector. :imaposer:


Wat brand volgende, ek los julle ma wat so klomp kak praat, dis altyd interesant om te sien die ouens wat nie 690 het nie weet altyd die meeste.so ry ma jou yammie

Leer nou n slag tik, dan kan jy lekker saamgesels. :thumleft:


As jy n 690 gehad het was jy ook minder op die forum ,wie wil nou n vervelige  XT heeldag ry ;)
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: GJ on February 24, 2014, 11:04:40 pm
I must still meet a person that buy a new KTM 690 and that is still the owner of the bike
with more than 30 000 km on the clock.  :patch:   :pot: 

:spitcoffee:

N KTM  wat net 10000 km hou is nog steets meer opwinding as enige vervelige XT :ricky:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 25, 2014, 07:09:09 am
I must still meet a person that buy a new KTM 690 and that is still the owner of the bike
with more than 30 000 km on the clock.  :patch:   :pot: 

:spitcoffee:

N KTM  wat net 10000 km hou is nog steets meer opwinding as enige vervelige XT :ricky:


Ja ja, dis nou genoeg van hierdie growwe beledigings waarvoor ek nie antwoorde het nie. :xxbah:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Bram on February 25, 2014, 07:24:20 am
Wouldnt it be more appropriate to compare the 690 with the xt660R or am I completely wrong here?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 25, 2014, 07:29:17 am
Wouldnt it be more appropriate to compare the 690 with the xt660R or am I completely wrong here?

You are right in the sense that these two are a bit closer, since the XT-R is meant as a "scrambler" , like the 690. The 690's chassis and engine just make a mockery of any other
"scrambler" currently available.
As a performance single, the 690 is just too far above all else on the market for comparison. I am talking of current models, of course.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: lecap on February 25, 2014, 07:31:25 am
I have never owned either bike, but that does not seem to make me less qualified than most people here.

My biggest gripe with the 660 Tenere is that it weighs 185kg dry . Thatís more than an 800GS, 950SE or HP2. So it has all the disadvantages of both a 650 class single and a big twin, and none of the benefits. While the engine, suspension and other components are not bad, they are not outstanding either.

The 690ís engine is considered by many to be the best single cylinder ever made. The bike also has top of the line components and a lot of effort has gone into making it as light as possible. So at least you know why it costs as much as it does.


I was almost lynched here before because I said the XT660R is 20kg to heavy and R20k too expensive to be a great bike.
I extend the compliment to the XT660Z.
At least the Z got away with the totally useless header pipe routing and the swing arm does not look as if it's made from a fence pole :cheers:

Don't get me wrong they both are good bikes but their girth prevents them from ascending to greatness. The price would be ok if they were 20 kg lighter. The weight would be acceptable if they were R20k cheaper. Sorry.

I never really considered a 640 because IMHO it's an insane bone shaker. A well performing one, true. But neither the heftier price tag not the better suspension and engine performance would have made me ride any better.
The 690 has the better engine by far be it only for not shaking fillings out of your teeth and idling smoothly at all temperatures.


Can we now please have a 640 Adventure with a 690 engine which lasts as if it was built in Japan?
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Ganjora on February 25, 2014, 07:35:38 am
The 690's chassis and engine just make a mockery of any other
"scrambler" currently available.
As a performance single, the 690 is just too far above all else on the market for comparison.

hallelujah!!!
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: bikerboer on February 25, 2014, 08:56:20 am
Die vergelyking moes gewees het tussen yammie 660 en ander 650 s soos die dr klr xr l , waar laas genoemde beslis meer waarde vir geld is en beter hanteer as die 660 .

O vir die wat iets wil se , ek het n 660 gehad , n 650 xl , en sopas gesien wat n 650 dr kan doen .

GJ die 690 is op pad   
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: GJ on February 25, 2014, 12:15:30 pm
Die vergelyking moes gewees het tussen yammie 660 en ander 650 s soos die dr klr xr l , waar laas genoemde beslis meer waarde vir geld is en beter hanteer as die 660 .

O vir die wat iets wil se , ek het n 660 gehad , n 650 xl , en sopas gesien wat n 650 dr kan doen .

GJ die 690 is op pad   

Mooi man :thumleft:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 25, 2014, 02:07:19 pm
Die vergelyking moes gewees het tussen yammie 660 en ander 650 s soos die dr klr xr l , waar laas genoemde beslis meer waarde vir geld is en beter hanteer as die 660 .

O vir die wat iets wil se , ek het n 660 gehad , n 650 xl , en sopas gesien wat n 650 dr kan doen .

GJ die 690 is op pad   

As jy die hele thread volg, sal jy besef dat dit is presies waartussen die vergelyking is. Die thread het sy ontstaan a.g.v. die aanmekaar inbring van die 690 as n vergelyking teen ander in die 650 klas, terwyl die 690 n heel ander klas fiets is.
Lees ook asseblief weer, die 660 word wel vergelyk met die DR, KLR, XR-L, Sertao.

Let assebklief ook daarop dat alhoewel die DR en XR-L nog verkoop word, is dit fietse op die heel laaste been van vervaardiging. MAW, koop een, en jy sit met n "obsolete" model.
Dit moet in ag geneem word met die nuwe aankoop prys van n fiets, want dit gaan herverkoopwaarde sleg benadeel. Hierdie fietse se lae pryse is ook deel van n laaste voorraad afverkoop, wat dit minder van n "bargain" maak, BEHALWE as jy met die fiets gaan trou.

Koop jou 690, volgens my berekinge is die odds 85% teen jou dat die fiets jou gaan pas. Dis n baie skerp tool, met n klein verskeidenheid gebruike.
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: Herminator on February 25, 2014, 02:17:42 pm
Ek dog die 660Z het gewen, hoekom praat ons nog hieroor

 :deal:
Title: Re: Wilddog style comparing the XT660Z to the 690 Enduro R.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 25, 2014, 02:22:30 pm
Ek dog die 660Z het gewen, hoekom praat ons nog hieroor

 :deal:

Ja, ons het gewen, maar die verloorders is mos nog besig om klaar te maak. :snorting: