Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => About South Africa... => eTolls - The Resistance => Topic started by: Sláinte Mhaith on March 03, 2014, 07:47:56 am

Title: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on March 03, 2014, 07:47:56 am
Seems like most have received invoiced although there are still many like myself who have received nothing.

Where do they get our contact details from?

If I am correct then they are not allowed to get it from e-natis? Is that so?
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: gser on March 03, 2014, 08:39:12 am

 I would like to know as well ?
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: IDR on March 03, 2014, 08:59:56 am
As far as speculation goes, they are NOT linked to eNatis, and it seems that they have access to data from www.payfine.co.za (http://www.payfine.co.za), now www.paycity.co.za (http://www.paycity.co.za) by Syntell, who have been awarded the contract by SANRAL for the debt collection.

They do explicitly state on their website that "Please be advised that payCity has not given out, nor will we ever give out, any of our users's details to SANRAL or to any other third party."

(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6766353664/h189B395E/)
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on March 03, 2014, 09:43:27 am

Paymyfines.co.za belong to Kapsch. Wonder if it is the same for paycity.co.za
http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/pay-fine-online-get-e-toll-bill-1.1623869#.UxQwbPnbPEw (http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/pay-fine-online-get-e-toll-bill-1.1623869#.UxQwbPnbPEw)
A domain search of etcrecovery.co.za and paymyfines.co.za shows they are both owned and operated by TMT Services (Pty) Ltd, the South African company that is part of the Austrian company Kapsch TrafficCom, which runs the e-toll project.

Those site explain how they can get your email address and maybe phone number, but if I remember correctly then postal and/or physical address is not part of the registration.

The latter two is a mystery to my. Wonder if there is a correlation to eNatis address and Sanral invoices. Maybe someone who has an old eNatis address or multiple postal address can confirm if it correspond or differ to Sanral invoice?
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: IDR on March 03, 2014, 09:57:08 am
But www.paymyfines.co.za (http://www.paymyfines.co.za) only handles fines for these areas:
Bela Bela
Bitou (Plettenberg Bay)
Dihlabeng (Bethlehem)
Emakhazeni (Belfast)
Hibiscus Coast
Knysna
Langeberg (Robertson)
Maquassi Hills (Wolmaransstad)
Mogale City (Krugersdorp)
Mossel Bay
Msunduzi (Pietermaritzburg)
Mthonjaneni (Melmoth)
Oudtshoorn
Stellenbosch
Swellendam
Tzaneen
uMhlathuze (Richards Bay)
uMlalazi (Eshowe)
uMngeni (Howick)
Westonaria

No mention of anything in Pretoria or JHB?  How could they have any details for anyone who might use these on a regular basis??

Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Beebop on March 03, 2014, 10:30:31 am
When I got a call from the VPC, they told me they got my details from e-Natis.
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Bundu on March 03, 2014, 11:29:53 am
I think they get most of it from e-Natis, but seem to not regularly update their database or e-Natis is stuffed (which it is)

I changed my postal address last year in Jun/July, when I renewed my car licence, as I'm cancelling my PO Box - I've received 3 invoices to date and all at my PO Box, which the postal service have not changed the lock yet - as soon as the lock is changed, my invoices will stop, which is fine by me
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Heimer on March 03, 2014, 12:11:39 pm
Beyond your address detail - Paycity also has your credit card info if use them e.g. to buy electricity via SMS.

With a small one sided amendment in the user agreement, they can sneak in SANRAL toll fee deductions, I am sure...
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: ButchH on March 03, 2014, 05:53:44 pm
From the cell phone crowd Vodacom defiantly sold my info to them ( defy them to prove otherwise)
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: IDR on March 04, 2014, 07:33:31 am
From the cell phone crowd Vodacom defiantly sold my info to them ( defy them to prove otherwise)

How do they prove that they DIDN'T sell anything?  ;D

I also don't understand how useful Vodacom's data will be - since they don't have any vehicle registration detail.
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: ButchH on March 04, 2014, 12:27:13 pm
From the cell phone crowd Vodacom defiantly sold my info to them ( defy them to prove otherwise)

How do they prove that they DIDN'T sell anything?  ;D

I also don't understand how useful Vodacom's data will be - since they don't have any vehicle registration detail.




I received a invoice and a threat of litigation via a vodacom number no name no registration .When I quaried the only info they had was the cell number . So you tell me  :deal:
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: IDR on March 04, 2014, 12:33:21 pm
From the cell phone crowd Vodacom defiantly sold my info to them ( defy them to prove otherwise)

How do they prove that they DIDN'T sell anything?  ;D

I also don't understand how useful Vodacom's data will be - since they don't have any vehicle registration detail.




I received a invoice and a threat of litigation via a vodacom number no name no registration .When I quaried the only info they had was the cell number . So you tell me  :deal:

So how are they billing you when they don't have vehicle reg???
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on March 04, 2014, 12:33:51 pm
From the cell phone crowd Vodacom defiantly sold my info to them ( defy them to prove otherwise)

How do they prove that they DIDN'T sell anything?  ;D

I also don't understand how useful Vodacom's data will be - since they don't have any vehicle registration detail.




I received a invoice and a threat of litigation via a vodacom number no name no registration .When I quaried the only info they had was the cell number . So you tell me  :deal:

+1 With IDR

Mobile operators have nothing about my vehicles.  If you only have my vehicle reg number then the mobile companies are of no use. 
Other sources, like eNatis, will have my mobile number though.
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on March 04, 2014, 12:36:44 pm
What database did the police search in the days before eNatis?
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: ButchH on March 04, 2014, 08:24:18 pm
From the cell phone crowd Vodacom defiantly sold my info to them ( defy them to prove otherwise)

How do they prove that they DIDN'T sell anything?  ;D

I also don't understand how useful Vodacom's data will be - since they don't have any vehicle registration detail.




I received a invoice and a threat of litigation via a vodacom number no name no registration .When I quaried the only info they had was the cell number . So you tell me  :deal:

+1 With IDR

Mobile operators have nothing about my vehicles.  If you only have my vehicle reg number then the mobile companies are of no use. 
Other sources, like eNatis, will have my mobile number though.



ok slowly this time I bought a starter pack Vodacom for my android I did not need to provide a motor vehicle registration number  in order to purchase the said starter pack . One month old (the starter pack) and I receive  an invoice  and a threat of legal action if I don't pay. All they have is cell number and Rica info. ??( like explaining to the Russians to leave Crimea before they get their asses handed to them )
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Bundu on March 04, 2014, 08:30:05 pm
it's 10 to one a recycled number - you're getting the previous guys bills - just ignore
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: buzzlightyear on March 04, 2014, 08:30:35 pm
so maybe the correlate id on rica with id on enatis and so link you up?
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Berg Man on March 05, 2014, 06:21:08 am
I'm sure they are getting the details from Natis. My father-in-law just got an etoll account from January. Thing is, he died in September last year. The car is in Jhb to be sold, we are in kzn.

He would not have been registered on payfine or anything like that. His cellphone was in his wifes name, so its not that. To my mind, it can only be eNatis.
Anyway, good luck collecting those fees.
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on March 05, 2014, 10:17:04 am
ok slowly this time I bought a starter pack Vodacom for my android I did not need to provide a motor vehicle registration number  in order to purchase the said starter pack . One month old (the starter pack) and I receive  an invoice  and a threat of legal action if I don't pay. All they have is cell number and Rica info. ??( like explaining to the Russians to leave Crimea before they get their asses handed to them )

Think you are in the wrong thread. We are not talking about general debt collection. We are talking about Sanral getting our contact details. Postal address to be more specific.  Who is the "they" you are referring to? Is it SANRAL?

Never heard of Sanral just sending a threat to a mobile phone without linking it to a value or invoice. IOW they have your mobile number number linked to a vehicle registration.
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: Bundu on March 05, 2014, 11:25:41 am
ok slowly this time I bought a starter pack Vodacom for my android I did not need to provide a motor vehicle registration number  in order to purchase the said starter pack . One month old (the starter pack) and I receive  an invoice  and a threat of legal action if I don't pay. All they have is cell number and Rica info. ??( like explaining to the Russians to leave Crimea before they get their asses handed to them )

Think you are in the wrong thread. We are not talking about general debt collection. We are talking about Sanral getting our contact details. Postal address to be more specific.  Who is the "they" you are referring to?

Never heard of Sanral just sending a threat to a mobile phone without linking it to a value or invoice. IOW they have your mobile number number linked to a vehicle registration.

something that also seems to be happening quite a lot, is the following scenario:
I have vehicle X and you have vehicle Y
Vehicle Y has a cell nr coupled to it
You, the owner of Vehicle Y have cancelled your cell contract and are using the e-toll roads
That cell number has since been allocated to me
I get threatened by Sanral for your e-toll debt


These cases I would just ignore, as Sanral does not have my name, but has your name
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: ButchH on March 05, 2014, 11:57:31 am
ok slowly this time I bought a starter pack Vodacom for my android I did not need to provide a motor vehicle registration number  in order to purchase the said starter pack . One month old (the starter pack) and I receive  an invoice  and a threat of legal action if I don't pay. All they have is cell number and Rica info. ??( like explaining to the Russians to leave Crimea before they get their asses handed to them )

Think you are in the wrong thread. We are not talking about general debt collection. We are talking about Sanral getting our contact details. Postal address to be more specific.  Who is the "they" you are referring to?

Never heard of Sanral just sending a threat to a mobile phone without linking it to a value or invoice. IOW they have your mobile number number linked to a vehicle registration.

something that also seems to be happening quite a lot, is the following scenario:
I have vehicle X and you have vehicle Y
Vehicle Y has a cell nr coupled to it
You, the owner of Vehicle Y have cancelled your cell contract and are using the e-toll roads
That cell number has since been allocated to me
I get threatened by Sanral for your e-toll debt


These cases I would just ignore, as Sanral does not have my name, but has your name



Yup Hello Peter triggered a response from Sanral . They confirmed they have no name attached to the "invoice" only a cell number ???? . It is obviously  a  concern for them as they are taking it seriously  and have escalated the issue as there are no names attached just a cell number  . Lets see what happens
Title: Re: Where do SANRAL get our details from?
Post by: RobC on March 06, 2014, 11:25:12 am
When I got a call from the VPC, they told me they got my details from e-Natis.

and according to POPI that may no longer happen... data must be kept confidential even between state owned entities.
Love the way they make legislation that bites back sometimes. >:D