Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => BMW 1200 LC => Topic started by: Lord Knormoer on July 28, 2014, 04:47:07 pm

Title: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 28, 2014, 04:47:07 pm
Anyone else run Karoo 3's with experience of extended high speed runs?

Speed: 190-210km/h over 40km
Load: Single rider with no luggage
Pressure: Front 2.6 & Rear 2.8

Mine starts to weave after about 20-30km and I am trying to work out if this might be the limit for what the tyres can do.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: iamgigglz on July 28, 2014, 04:53:53 pm
The Karoo 3 is rated "R" = 170kph.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 28, 2014, 05:00:15 pm
The Karoo 3 is rated "R" = 170kph.

Rated T for 118mph or 190km/h on the 170/60R17 and the 120/70R19 that I run on the K50.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: iamgigglz on July 28, 2014, 05:16:01 pm
The Karoo 3 is rated "R" = 170kph.

Rated T for 118mph or 190km/h on the 170/60R17 and the 120/70R19 that I run on the K50.

Aah the K50, ok...had the sizes wrong.
Although "190-210km/h" > 190km/h.

I'll leave it at that; any other response would come across as trolling.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Draadwerk on July 28, 2014, 05:28:24 pm
Ai LKM, I was set in buying either Karoo or TKC. Now you confuse me again
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 28, 2014, 05:35:31 pm
The Karoo 3 is rated "R" = 170kph.

Rated T for 118mph or 190km/h on the 170/60R17 and the 120/70R19 that I run on the K50.

Aah the K50, ok...had the sizes wrong.
Although "190-210km/h" > 190km/h.

I'll leave it at that; any other response would come across as trolling.

I welcome any input from someone that's run the tyres at those speeds. Most has a safety margin built in and given that you should be able to do 190 loaded, 210 with no load should be OK? Is my logic flawed?
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 28, 2014, 05:39:32 pm
Ai LKM, I was set in buying either Karoo or TKC. Now you confuse me again

These tyres are absolutely stable up to 190km/h. Faster than that over extended periods is where I experience an almost imperceptible weave.

In the last instance, after 40km of only slowing to about 190km/h and about 5 instances of 160km/h for about 20-30 seconds when passing traffic.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Inverted on July 28, 2014, 06:50:21 pm
The Karoo 3 is rated "R" = 170kph.

Rated T for 118mph or 190km/h on the 170/60R17 and the 120/70R19 that I run on the K50.

Aah the K50, ok...had the sizes wrong.
Although "190-210km/h" > 190km/h.

I'll leave it at that; any other response would come across as trolling.

I welcome any input from someone that's run the tyres at those speeds. Most has a safety margin built in and given that you should be able to do 190 loaded, 210 with no load should be OK? Is my logic flawed?

Most???...You should be careful, the safety margin is not there as a backup for you to think you can use it.  Not all tires of the same make and type is identical, and this forms part of that margin!
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Sommer Ek on July 29, 2014, 02:04:47 am
LKM, jy dink nie dalk die spoed is bietjie hoog vir Karoo 3's nie. Ek hoop nie dit was op die grond nie, want wie gaan dan volgende jaar se Cancervive rit reel.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 29, 2014, 06:08:40 am
LKM, jy dink nie dalk die spoed is bietjie hoog vir Karoo 3's nie. Ek hoop nie dit was op die grond nie, want wie gaan dan volgende jaar se Cancervive rit reel.

Nog nooit op grond oor die vervaardiger se maksimum spoed aanduiding gegaan nie :thumleft:

Ek dink wel jy is sommer reg...wou net bietjie vra of ander al 'n soortgelyke ervaring gehad het.

Omdat die fiets nie gelaai was nie voel ek dat ek nog binne perke was. My logika sÍ dat as ek met passasier en bagasie 190km/h kam ry moet ek sonder passasier en bagasie bietjie meer kan doen!

Sal egter die teuls intrek en jou by die volgende Cancervive Gouda Outride sien :deal:
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Mr Zog on July 29, 2014, 08:20:41 am
Howzit LKM,

I'd be very careful about exceeding the speed ratings of tyres at all. One has to bear in mind that although the manufacturer may have a "safety margin" built in to their specs, one also has to remember that the stresses placed on that tyre increase exponentially.

Think speed and the g-forces in a crash. At 30km/h you will experience lets say 20 G's in a sudden stop. At 60km/h you will hit about 80G's in a sudden stop.

Its the same for a tyre, spinning at 190km/h and spinning at 210km/h could even double the stresses on that tyre, leading to delamination, overheating, and catastrophic failure.

Its just not worth it boet, rather stick to the manufacturers limit, or get tyres that have a higher rating. Your life is worth more than a few extra km/h  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Archangel on July 29, 2014, 08:33:25 am
Am I the only one thinking it's silly to be riding at those speeds for extended periods?   :eek7:

Or were you just very late?
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 29, 2014, 08:37:46 am
Am I the only one thinking it's silly to be riding at those speeds for extended periods?   :eek7:

Or where you just very late?

Very late!! Someone needed to make a flight to JHB, still not a good idea though :deal:
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 29, 2014, 08:39:20 am
Howzit LKM,

I'd be very careful about exceeding the speed ratings of tyres at all. One has to bear in mind that although the manufacturer may have a "safety margin" built in to their specs, one also has to remember that the stresses placed on that tyre increase exponentially.

Think speed and the g-forces in a crash. At 30km/h you will experience lets say 20 G's in a sudden stop. At 60km/h you will hit about 80G's in a sudden stop.

Its the same for a tyre, spinning at 190km/h and spinning at 210km/h could even double the stresses on that tyre, leading to delamination, overheating, and catastrophic failure.

Its just not worth it boet, rather stick to the manufacturers limit, or get tyres that have a higher rating. Your life is worth more than a few extra km/h  :thumleft:

Thx, you confirm my own thoughts. Just wanted to check.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Gryshond on July 29, 2014, 11:52:44 am
LKM I can confirm that on the GS LC the Karoo 3 gets very hot after a few km at high speed 200+. As it gets hot the tyres start to weave and it becomes dangerous to continue, consider it a warning to slow down. Even slowing down for a few km does not let it cool down all that much so as soon as you speed up it will quickly get hot again. When loaded or 2 up it starts to weave after a few km at even lower speeds.

I think with heavy adventure bikes getting as powerful as they are, we have hit the limit of what a manufacturer can do with a dual tyre. That also explains why the Anakee 3, ContiTrailAttack and Tourance Next are starting to look like sport bike tyres. They need to handle a heavy bike doing 240 or more and even they start to weave at those speeds.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 29, 2014, 12:10:01 pm
LKM I can confirm that on the GS LC the Karoo 3 gets very hot after a few km at high speed 200+. As it gets hot the tyres start to weave and it becomes dangerous to continue, consider it a warning to slow down. Even slowing down for a few km does not let it cool down all that much so as soon as you speed up it will quickly get hot again. When loaded or 2 up it starts to weave after a few km at even lower speeds.

I think with heavy adventure bikes getting as powerful as they are, we have hit the limit of what a manufacturer can do with a dual tyre. That also explains why the Anakee 3, ContiTrailAttack and Tourance Next are starting to look like sport bike tyres. They need to handle a heavy bike doing 240 or more and even they start to weave at those speeds.

:thumleft:
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Sommer Ek on July 30, 2014, 12:06:39 am
Dit is darem maar net lekker om die LC se oor so bietjie te draai en te hoor hoe praat die pype en te voel hoe dinge gebeur. En sodra jy weet dit is nou genoeg dan gee jy hom nog so bietjie - en dan gebeur dit weer, net hierdie keer is dit lekkerder. Nou ja, dan is dit soos party ander dinge in die lewe hoe meer jy gee hoe lekkerder raak dit.

Enige man moet so nou en dan, soos 'n Springbok ram, teen die draad langs wei net om seker te maak hoe groot die kamp is en hoe hoog die draad is.

Die GS bly lekker !!
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Manic on July 30, 2014, 08:56:51 am
Wat het jou tyre monitors gese?

Ek het teen 200kph plus, vir meer as 30km ook begin weave kry, en dit was nie eers n knobbly nie.

Agter tyre druk het van 2.9bar opgegaan na 3.7bar op my monitors.


Die tyre word so warm, dat die rubber baie baie baie SAG begin word, en dan flex die grip meer as wat dit moet, daarom kry jy n weave. Op n knobbly, teen daai hitte, dis wanneer die knobs begin afskeur.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on July 30, 2014, 09:06:18 am
Wat het jou tyre monitors gese?

Ek het teen 200kph plus, vir meer as 30km ook begin weave kry, en dit was nie eers n knobbly nie.

Agter tyre druk het van 2.9bar opgegaan na 3.7bar op my monitors.


Die tyre word so warm, dat die rubber baie baie baie SAG begin word, en dan flex die grip meer as wat dit moet, daarom kry jy n weave. Op n knobbly, teen daai hitte, dis wanneer die knobs begin afskeur.

Monitors was OK, het net .2 opgegaan, ek het meer verwag.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: COLES on July 30, 2014, 09:08:10 am

Hey Dogs
I use Karoooooo 3 but the speed you fellows are taking about is way to fast for me
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: SGB on July 31, 2014, 06:27:59 am
I did a trip to the Cape with Karoo 3s on the bike.  2.2 bar.  No instability.  The experiment did reveal that you can run a full tank dry in 170 km and 50 min.  And rhe rear tyre was finished after 2800 km.  Mostly tar.  The Karoo 3 performed above my expectations on tar and remains my tyre of choice on the LC.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: OomD on July 31, 2014, 06:46:30 am
When I put Karoo 3's on my bike I wasn't expecting high mileage, in spite of the fact that I generally don't ride like a hooligan. But I'm on 9800Km's on the rear now, and there's still some life left. Front ones don't even really look used yet.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on August 01, 2014, 12:01:29 am
I did a trip to the Cape with Karoo 3s on the bike.  2.2 bar.  No instability.  The experiment did reveal that you can run a full tank dry in 170 km and 50 min.  And rhe rear tyre was finished after 2800 km.  Mostly tar.  The Karoo 3 performed above my expectations on tar and remains my tyre of choice on the LC.

:thumleft:

I had the same experience returning from Bloem in November, had to fill up after 190km and did not get to 3000km.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Varkboer on September 11, 2014, 05:10:27 am
So lyk my Karoo 3 is die antwoord nou julle Honne wat weet spek biekie vir my tyre pressures op die Karoo 3 vir teerpad grondpad( Klipperig ) en kombinasie
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on September 11, 2014, 07:08:49 am
Ek pomp 2.8 agter en 2.4 voor. As ek lank teer gaan ry maak ek dit 3.0 en 2.5. Ek blaas nooit af nie maar sal 'n uitsondering maak vir diep sand oor langer afstande.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Attila on September 11, 2014, 08:42:14 am
!!JACK ALERT !!

For shits and giggles I calculated the Impact Force on an object as follows:

1) Rider weighing(Object) 100kg @ 200kmh to a dead stop (.3048m) - Impact Force = 56.91 tons

2) Rider and a bike weighing (Object) 350kg @ 200kmh to a deadstop (.3048m) - Impact Force = 199.19 tons.

Of course there is a lot of assumption to be made on what happens during the impact.......so it's a pretty flat calc. 

But clearly one can see that loosing your head is a real possibility at these forces.......   
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Varkboer on September 12, 2014, 03:51:47 am
Tx lk dit is min of meer waar ek is

Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: BLK on September 12, 2014, 07:10:12 am
With respect:I can't imagine why anyone would wan't to travel at 190km + on karoo 3's.I think you are asking for Cuc!@Adventure riding is about taking in your surroundings?

My bit for the day
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Draadwerk on September 12, 2014, 07:49:50 am
With respect:I can't imagine why anyone would wan't to travel at 190km + on karoo 3's.I think you are asking for Cuc!@Adventure riding is about taking in your surroundings?

My bit for the day

+1
Title: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on September 12, 2014, 08:46:42 am
With respect:I can't imagine why anyone would wan't to travel at 190km + on karoo 3's.I think you are asking for Cuc!@Adventure riding is about taking in your surroundings?

My bit for the day

Adventure for me includes a wide variety of terrain, speeds and surroundings.

I like the slow and difficult:

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/11/a69a2053a988261a699f3b7cfd0ddc2a.jpg)

...I also like slow and pretty...

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/11/76cca8b606bd9c17bd193d57eb8bc7d0.jpg)

...and yes, I love going fast too. And I do all this with one bike and sometimes on the same ride. For me that is Adventure or Dual Sport riding :thumleft:
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Lord Knormoer on September 12, 2014, 08:47:17 am
With respect:I can't imagine why anyone would wan't to travel at 190km + on karoo 3's.I think you are asking for Cuc!@Adventure riding is about taking in your surroundings?

My bit for the day

...or maybe because I can? :imaposer:
Title: Re: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: adv on December 07, 2014, 10:24:06 pm
We slabbed it back from  mosselbay at about 150 180kph and i must admit that i thought the tire would be moertoe when i got home. The bike gets a little hairy at 190kph but i guess thats a combination if the hifh fender and the tkc on the front.


Tire handles like a road tire. Now if only it was not so puncture prone.
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: K-9 on December 10, 2014, 03:32:42 pm
no karoo 3's again??   back to TKC's
Title: Re: Karoo 3 - Riding faster for longer
Post by: Malmoer on December 10, 2014, 04:12:47 pm
Great answer LKM.
It is much the same for me!