Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Riding: Plan, Report and Racing => Racing Section => Topic started by: MaxThePanda on August 01, 2014, 01:39:46 pm

Title: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 01, 2014, 01:39:46 pm
It's Friday, it's the 1st of August - exactly 3 months to the day to Amageza departure - and a big box of bike bling is leaving the US today. All good reasons for the start of a build thread for my Amageza 2014 bike!!

This has been six months in the planning http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=146747.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=146747.0) and much longer in the dreaming. I'm no hard core racer... I'm an over excited, naive and probably very foolish amateur play-rallyer. Sound good so far?

When I entered Amageza this year, I owned this:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5479/14138995766_a9db3e53b3_o.jpg)

Best bike I ever had my sticky little mitts on, and I absolutely loved it. She took me round Angola:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5485/9806968643_a537bd98b4_o.jpg)

... on some awesome rough touring locally:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3792/12636142275_7a7579ec5f_o.jpg)

...and was quite handy in the rough stuff!

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7460/12045707783_7484eb96d0_o.jpg)

But after thinking long and hard, I decided that she wasn't the right bike for me for Amageza, or perhaps my needs going forward. Although she was already quite farkled, she didn't have enough fuel, and adding fuel to 690's is fark-off expensive. In fact, adding most anything to bikes is expensive, but 690s pretty much take the cake. Research indicated she'd need fuel, a new bash plate, a new rear suspension linkage, possibly a Rally Raid front fork cartridge and then a fairing system to go with what ever fuel tanks I chose. A better solution would have been a new 690 with a KTM Cape Town rally kit. But that's a yowser-R160k bike!

I've also been doing more and more really rough, slow speed touring lately. My idea of fun is a trailer to Springbok and then 200-500km days in the sand and rocks in the wilderness, not 800km touring days on open gravel. That's more 450-class than 690-class riding. I also figured that for Amageza, much more time would be gained with a light bike in the really rough parts of the specials than would be lost by giving up 10-20km/h in top speed to the 690 in the open stretches.

And 450's already have pure off road suspension, less fragile bits to break, and are much cheaper to buy parts for.
[Cough. Don't mention engine rebuilds.]

So, the question was which 450?

There's no right answer and lots of good options. I've loved owning a KTM - they're readily available, great to work on, have top quality components, suspension and engines, incredible aftermarket support, and are by far the most popular choice for rallying worldwide. Perhaps most importantly for this kind of riding, they also have wide range 6-speed gearboxes.

I narrowed it down - either a good older R35k bike - in which case brand wasn't such an issue - or a 1/2 year old KTM 450/500, the best of the bunch.

I looked at a few BMW G450X's - they're unloved, great value and perfect for rallying. There are quite a few good CRF's and older WR's around. CRFs are especially good value. But the older 525's seemed over priced to me. R35-40k buys a 2006 KTM 525 with 10,000km... but then I found a 2013 KTM 450 with only 17 hours for R65k (after a bit of who's your daddy). The reviews on the newer bikes seemed fantastic, the fuel injection promises lower consumption and thus smaller tanks, and the chance of something going terminally wrong would be much lower with a fresh bike. Amageza is a horribly expensive investment - I want the best possible chance of finishing.

One can go on debating until the cows come home, so I transferred a wad of cash and Time Freight pitched up with this:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3835/14368058036_a84ecbaf69_o.png)

Yes, it has horrible orange hubs and rim tape and is boringly standard, but I think a blank canvas is probably a better place to start if you've got fixed ideas about where you're going.

As much as I like the experience of riding fully faired bikes on fast open sections, and the rally perv in all of us loves the look of them for sure... I decided that I wanted to go with a rally-lite setup rather. Seems to me, the trend internationally is towards more enduro-oriented riding in rallies. Stages are getting more intense, the bikes lighter and smaller, and unless you're doing Dakar you don't need the extra support for Irritracks, Sentinels and the like.

My mantra quickly became crystal clear: MOTO MINIMALISM! Small, simple, light... and as robust as possible.

I also wanted a bike that I could throw a Giant Loop over, and easily convert for rough touring trips - and even perhaps an off road/enduro race. Let's be honest, this rallying lark is a once or twice a year thing at best.

So, this thread is going to be about the mutation of what you see above, into something like this, fully ready and charged up for whatever Alexander "Dingaan Corporal Commander The One Great Leader and Ruler of the Universe" Nel throws at us, come 3 November. Come along for the ride:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3917/14798559564_9e31c0dd4a_o.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on August 01, 2014, 02:28:28 pm
3 months. Eish. I'm starting to feel it.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Buff on August 01, 2014, 02:29:43 pm
Awesome, I'll be following this thread for sure  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Scooterbike on August 01, 2014, 03:31:39 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Dwerg on August 01, 2014, 03:34:21 pm
 :happy1:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Scooterbike on August 01, 2014, 03:43:10 pm
Wondering if i should also start a build thread... My build starts this weekend...
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: monkeyboy on August 01, 2014, 03:53:04 pm
 :happy1:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 01, 2014, 04:12:31 pm
Wondering if i should also start a build thread... My build starts this weekend...


YES YOU SHOULD! Nice... I think Paul's gear will end up being in the majority at the Amageza. Those look suspiciously like Squadrons! Did you end up getting some?? Will be pawing it all on Saturday.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: ruger1 on August 01, 2014, 04:15:30 pm
 :happy1: :sip: :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: bonova on August 01, 2014, 04:42:54 pm
nice....will be watching this one with interest.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Scooterbike on August 01, 2014, 06:31:59 pm
Wondering if i should also start a build thread... My build starts this weekend...


YES YOU SHOULD! Nice... I think Paul's gear will end up being in the majority at the Amageza. Those look suspiciously like Squadrons! Did you end up getting some?? Will be pawing it all on Saturday.

I wish  :drif: Its for Rudie.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 01, 2014, 07:08:35 pm
Subscribe  :sip:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BlueBull2007 on August 02, 2014, 01:18:58 pm
in
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: evansv on August 02, 2014, 01:25:10 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Cracker on August 03, 2014, 08:53:34 am
enjoy the build, pandaman!!

I wish I had a build like this to do but finances and age have left me with the choice of using what I have or not going at all - so I'm racing with what I have.

see you on the start line  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Pistonpete on August 03, 2014, 09:01:06 am
Leka..... :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: adventure hunter1 on August 03, 2014, 02:10:27 pm
Fun times. Enjoy
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Dirt Junkie on August 03, 2014, 05:27:44 pm
Will be following this build with great interest
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: spokie on August 03, 2014, 05:45:23 pm
me too..!
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MickeyT on August 07, 2014, 12:03:06 am
Sub!!! This is going to be the same as watching my son opening and building a Lego spaceship!  Let me get a beer!
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: 1ougat on August 07, 2014, 12:08:35 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: katana on August 07, 2014, 05:25:22 am
 :drif:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Goatman on August 07, 2014, 08:29:48 am
 :sip: Can't wait, looks like a good one.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: I&horse on August 07, 2014, 12:00:16 pm
Cant see the pics at work, looking forward to comming back here.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 07, 2014, 03:15:57 pm
Abracadabra! A disappointingly small box (considering the cost) of Eastern Beaver electrics arrive on my desk this morning:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5558/14851189412_313cdd084c_b.jpg)

... but plenty to wire up a rally bike, and then some. I figured it would be more than a little annoying to find myself 3 connectors short of a result and having to re-order from Japan. Of course, the tricky question was which three connectors.

According to DHL, in some magnificent alignment of the stars, and to compensate for having spent the week in bed under the bad influenza of some horrible bugs, my box of more exciting tricks is also due to arrive this afternoon. Stand by.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: SteveD on August 07, 2014, 04:53:33 pm
I am so impressed to see a decent crimping tool in your bag of tricks   :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 07, 2014, 05:22:26 pm
Well spotted! Can't stand shitty tools, and I figured if I was going to buy some top notch connectors I may as well be able to attach them to the wires properly. Have managed to track down some good quality automotive wire too, oil and fuel resistant, so will go pick some of that up tomorrow. As strong as the temptation is to leap in, I'd probably do myself some favours planning the wiring diagram first.

And, nice work DHL:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3913/14665725529_b8f225530e_b.jpg)

Departed warehouse in Oregon Monday evening SA time, at my door mid-afternoon Thursday, on economy shipping. That's pretty impressive work. And much better than the combined TNT-customs bungle I had to deal with last time.

So the fun starts... actually, I think I'd better tidy up my garage first. And then there's the small problem of no power or light in there at the moment...
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Scooterbike on August 07, 2014, 10:18:20 pm
DHL  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 08, 2014, 03:03:24 pm
With a box full of rally tricks you've been planning and ordering for months sitting in the garage you'd be able to ignore it for a few days and go to work as normal, right?






Thought so.

So I took a couple of hours off this morning and dropped in here:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5554/14856392044_0b815f234d_b.jpg)

First the nav gear. This little bracket comes from Dave at Rally Management Services. Can't believe how light it is...

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3912/14672172250_225770d5d4_b.jpg)

I'd bought a set of second hand gear that had only been used for the Namaqua, and is in pretty much perfect nick.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3835/14858514182_3ddffb71d4_b.jpg)

And this pile of bits is a rally nav tower and front end, believe it or not. Good thing I liked mechano as a kid.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5578/14858514052_b4151a75e5_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 08, 2014, 03:05:09 pm
You must feel like a kid on Christmas morning ! Reading with interest  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 08, 2014, 03:12:15 pm
I really meant to just check that all the bits had arrived from the US in good shape, and the shipping consolidators hadn't dropped any of the four million packets on the floor. But I couldn't resist just trying a couple of the bits to see what was what.

First stop:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5585/14672244398_de25b5672a_b.jpg)

The RMS is all laser cut and beautifully made, and comes with grommets and bolts and bits to make assembly an absolute cinch. Bonus of using the most common stuff, I guess.

I have the self control of a fish. Off came the headlight and stock hand guards.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3892/14858515032_55f7767b85_b.jpg)

And the bars:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3841/14672171260_45450ae627_b.jpg)

The HDB top clamp has an innovative system of using both sets of threads for strength, and for some reason the back ones were a little buggered so I tapped them out again.

Resistance is futile.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3879/14858513462_ee647df557_b.jpg)

The bottom clamp has a built-in adjustable Scotts damper mount, but I haven't fitted the frame bracket and pin yet.

Everything on the HDB (Highway Dirtbikes) system is adjustable for fit. I went for their second lowest set of risers, and I think I may have to order the lowest ones. I've become less keen on bars in the sky of late... maybe enduro riding is teaching me something?

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3912/14672226669_f8bbe4f4c3_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 08, 2014, 03:13:10 pm
You must feel like a kid on Christmas morning ! Reading with interest  :thumleft:

Definitely overexcited.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 08, 2014, 03:23:18 pm
HDB offer a wide range of top clamps, and Paul will customise them for you too. I decided to keep it simple, partly because that's my mantra on this bike, and partly because on a rally there's a decent change of hitting the top clamp in an off. I decided to hide key, any power sockets and so on on the side of the fairing.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3839/14878736013_686f159076_b.jpg)

The four switches will be used for lights on/off, fan override, nav power override and one other. Or something like that. There are also little LEDs that go in those holes above the switches to indicate power on/off.

The HDB stuff is beautifully made. All perfectly CNC'd, anodised and so well thought through. This is the Nav support bar:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3847/14878735783_f6eb309d80_b.jpg)

And here is the rally-lite fairing going on:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5557/14835863886_11e15de42f_b.jpg)

Now for a somewhat contentious decision. HDB's original rally setup was all alloy and mounts top and bottom. Lately Paul has been moving strongly towards HDPE panels, and thinks that his new rally-lite setup mounted only from the top clamp is more than strong enough for two Squadrons, a road book and two displays. it also has the advantage of damping vibrations better than the alloy, and will likely absorb some of the impact and spring back into shape in the event of a crash rather than bend or deform.

What the hell - I decided to give it a try and abuse it hard before Amageza, and I can always get the full-length alloy panels if I think I need it. It's nice to have parameters forcing me to keep the setup as light as possible. I want the bike to ride as close to the original enduro as possible and there's too much temptation to mount all kinds of extra crap up there and turn the bike into a pig handling-wise.

It's like mechano:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5564/14672323157_a1f4531ac2_b.jpg)

Here I am only about an hour since walking into the garage. This stuff couldn't be easier.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5586/14878735823_3b12b6353d_b.jpg)

Nothing is done up, all nuts and bolts are just finger tight to see how the setup will work out.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: jpcussen on August 08, 2014, 03:26:46 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 08, 2014, 03:35:19 pm
I despise trying to ride at night with bad lights, and it's really dangerous. Now, I figure there's an odds-on chance I'm going to get caught out at least one night on Amageza, and anyway I've been wanting to try some night riding at Atlantis and elsewhere. And that ain't fun with shitty lights. So I bought the sun.

There are a few top notch light manufacturers around at the moment. But it seems if bright, and light and small wins the prize, then Baja Designs must be pretty much top of the pile. My card was a sodden melted mess at this point anyway, and when I called Christian at Baja Designs and discovered they were running a special on their top-of-the-line Squadron Pro... I sighed and acquiesced.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3923/14672322877_81048e07db_b.jpg)

To make matters simpler, the Squadrons are standard fitment in the HDB setup. Paul makes an option for the ADVMonster lights, which look identical to the local Extreme Lights, but after discussing it with him, was convinced nothing was going to match the Squadrons. One spot, and one wide cornering on a Skene dimmer for dims on the road (both lights on blazing full power for brights).

So, 4 secs and Bob's your auntie:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5556/14856389474_13d03dcd6b_b.jpg)

A blind man and his pig could put this stuff together, really.

OK, I lie a little. It's not all going to be plain sailing, and this is why:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3869/14835863286_832978416f_b.jpg)

Electrics. The 2013 XC-W has a solid power supply due to the FI requirements, but there is going to be a lot of wiring going on to get this bike roadworthy and race ready. And that is going to be far from blind man's work. But it's definitely not today's work. This is:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3841/14835864136_af02cce37c_b.jpg)

Nice, robust little plastic screen. Will bend and take some impact, and provides minimal obstruction of the road ahead. I've broken several fibreglass fairings on my previous bikes, so looking forward to trying this minimalist approach. Bingo.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3884/14672242378_dd579f565d_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 08, 2014, 03:44:27 pm
And that's it, my friends, for this little instalment. Literally two hours in and out. Forced myself back to the office and now I'm wasting time writing this up for you lot??!

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/14672170000_6d6a6281b5_b.jpg)

It's a neat setup, and so far very impressive. Of course the proof is in the pudding, but it's been well tested to destruction all over the world already, so this isn't new ground.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5556/14878734203_1750885a01_b.jpg)

Need to get the foam grips on before this will fit:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3843/14858511952_0edac57c51_b.jpg)

The switch itself is a pretty fragile feeling little piece of plastic that gives the impression it will break if you sneeze at it. May keep it as a spare and get one of Paul's new ones.

Yes, my garage is a pigsty, unlike some of the places you've seen in these parts.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3852/14835862746_6d6a2360ec_b.jpg)

And I leave you with this, the view from the cockpit, more or less in attack position:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5567/14835862906_84e0fc3b96_b.jpg)

As Radiohead said, everything in its right place. So far so good, now the hard part starts.

But first a little of this:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5594/14835865966_f34882f576_b.jpg)

...and some other easy distractions. Going to leave the hard part to last.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 08, 2014, 03:47:32 pm
Sure you will be riding by sunset tonight  :biggrin:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: bonova on August 08, 2014, 03:53:41 pm
very very nice :)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on August 08, 2014, 05:21:33 pm
(http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/nc/eu/q5/drool_400p.png)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: 1ougat on August 09, 2014, 09:20:28 am
You should get a name for the bike ... How about ... PANDA-MONIUM ?

You shurly have some pandemonium in that garage


pan·de·mo·ni·um  [pan-duh-moh-nee-uhm]
noun
1.wild uproar or unrestrained disorder; tumult or chaos.
2.a place or scene of riotous uproar or utter chaos.
3.( often initial capital letter ) the abode of all the demons.
4. hell.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: I&horse on August 09, 2014, 09:46:43 am
So does the whole tower turn with the bars?

Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Kamanya on August 09, 2014, 12:13:17 pm
Farklejustalitus

An obsessive compulsive impulse control disorder. The irresistible urge to open farkle packages almost as soon as delivered just to view them, that then progresses swiftly to seeing how they fit that inevitably turns into hours of garage time that was not budgeted or planned for.

The disorder has a strong correlation to credit card debt - the more the debt the worse the impulse and productivity impact.

Usually only diagnosed after the disorder has ruined relations with either the employer, wife or bank manager, often all three simultaneously.

Not curable. Suggested treatment interventions are very expensive and with very low success rates through intensive group therapy with like affected individuals.

Next group session is in November, the lead therapist is Dr. Alexander Nel.



Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 09, 2014, 01:26:07 pm
See you there.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 09, 2014, 09:24:41 pm
If I may ask :


Thanks
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Buff on August 09, 2014, 10:05:50 pm
See you there.

 :laughing4: Sharp, hope there's enough coffee for all of us  ;)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 10, 2014, 08:40:36 am
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 10, 2014, 08:41:35 am
So does the whole tower turn with the bars?

Yup. Minimalist and simple as possible. Had two frame-mounted fairing bikes and looking forward to trying this route. Have to keep it light, though.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 10, 2014, 07:14:20 pm
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com
Ok cool, I read the BD lights are rated at 42W each ! That is a fair bit of power needed for a bike like the 450. I know on my 525 the stock stator DC circuit gives a measely 30W's and it's the same for the 500, I'm following closely as I want to go the same route a bit later  :deal:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: pietas on August 10, 2014, 07:47:52 pm
You make building a rally bike look reaallly easy.

HDB has really nice stuff
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 10, 2014, 08:14:54 pm
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com
Ok cool, I read the BD lights are rated at 42W each ! That is a fair bit of power needed for a bike like the 450. I know on my 525 the stock stator DC circuit gives a measely 30W's and it's the same for the 500, I'm following closely as I want to go the same route a bit later  :deal:

Uprated stators are relatively easy to find for these scoots I believe.

Does that Poly nav tower not brace to the bottom triple as well? Would make sense and easy to do. This setup is very similar to what I had planned for my G450X rally lite but my workshop and garage fire has probably put paid to it at this stage ... even though the bike was saved I lost my Speedbrain Dakar rear tank, and some other goodies ... and work space and money and, and ...

Must say looking grand  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 10, 2014, 08:47:26 pm
If I may ask :

  • Lights, are you runnng off the stock AC or will you need to go the Trail Tech route and float the ground with rectifier and cahnge the whole setup to DC ? Maybe the 2013's got a DC circuit already ?
  • Really like that little fairing, got a link to it ?

Thanks

I'm no auto electrician, which makes what I'm about to do with the wiring of this bike mildly terrifying. But the 2013 is fuel injected and has a solid power supply already. I'll run the lights directly off the battery which is DC.

The fairing is from highwaydirtbikes.com
Ok cool, I read the BD lights are rated at 42W each ! That is a fair bit of power needed for a bike like the 450. I know on my 525 the stock stator DC circuit gives a measely 30W's and it's the same for the 500, I'm following closely as I want to go the same route a bit later  :deal:

Uprated stators are relatively easy to find for these scoots I believe.

Does that Poly nav tower not brace to the bottom triple as well? Would make sense and easy to do. This setup is very similar to what I had planned for my G450X rally lite but my workshop and garage fire has probably put paid to it at this stage ... even though the bike was saved I lost my Speedbrain Dakar rear tank, and some other goodies ... and work space and money and, and ...

Must say looking grand  :thumleft:
I see their aluminium towers uses the mount at the bottom, seems like the HDPE does have holes for it at the bottom so can be added if needed. I'm sure they tested this and are confident in the design sans bottom mount.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 10, 2014, 09:38:55 pm
Just seems it would give it extra stability esp with HPDE which has more flex?
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: aka.Goliath on August 10, 2014, 10:13:14 pm
Curious. What are you planning to use to carry your water? I'm currently designing  a rear rack that will take two tool tubes that can carry 1.5l each, or just one with water and one with tools, first aid etc... But I worry about the weight on the subframe
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 11, 2014, 09:23:38 am
Regarding the lights, according to Baja Designs the new fuel injected KTMs put out plenty of power for them, but I will confirm that again.

Just seems it would give it extra stability esp with HPDE which has more flex?

Paul seems to think it will handle just fine with the weight I intend to carry, and has been tested as such. If I feel it needs extra mount points, there are the holes and brackets, yes. I'm also planning on having some spare parts. The nav tower is by far the most likely part of the bike to break on this little adventure.

Curious. What are you planning to use to carry your water? I'm currently designing  a rear rack that will take two tool tubes that can carry 1.5l each, or just one with water and one with tools, first aid etc... But I worry about the weight on the subframe

I have a couple ideas floating around at the moment. One is to build a kevlar/carbon bash plate myself if I have time, with a water container, another is to bolt a 1l Rotopax on opposite the exhaust, and another is a Giant Loop Mojavi with 2 500ml water bottles in the side pockets. Not sure if that will pass scrutineering, but I am assuming they will be a little lax on this. If a full Dakar-style water container was required they would have gone 2/3l rather - there's hardly a point in going to expensive bash plate-mounted water containers for just one litre.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 11, 2014, 09:31:23 am
It was a busy weekend, but I managed to fit in another two hours late yesterday afternoon. Next up was the hand guards. The HDB system is extremely tough and again very well thought through. No sloppy little wedges, you get a tap and some CNC inserts to set up a thread inside the bars:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5589/14697346010_58fe84f858_b.jpg)

The front of the top clamp is threaded to accept the front end of the bracket.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3837/14697487417_c2dbacb8ce_b.jpg)

Which looks like this:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3835/14861458426_722f318ca1_b.jpg)

It's something like the Fastway system - there are no clamps cluttering up the bars, and it is adjustable for height, with a swivelling mount and two different height holes. An issue I've always had is getting the handguards low enough - I prefer my lever tilted down quite a bit for riding standing - horizontal levers make for awkward wrist angles. But most handguard manufacturers seem to have completely ignored this.

The HDB system is highly over engineered. If you break this, you're going to have to do some serious destruction to your bike in the process. It goes on without all the swearing, bending and stressed threads that normally accompany handguard installations. Paul rides a KTM, so no surprises there.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5593/14884015255_ae2eb2faed_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3918/14861038316_162cb5f0f0_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3874/14880977581_7e4f6a82d9_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3865/14884014525_87ed1f6eb5_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3838/14697417948_0f928e651c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 11, 2014, 09:48:21 am
I decided to hang on to the KTM computer. Trail Tech make some nice stuff but I'd read a few reports of less then legendary reliability of the sensors and other issues. The Voyager could have done away with a Garmin for Amageza track recording, but it's a one trick pony - no maps and I can't flick it on to the enduro bike for something like a Roof, so figured the money was best spent elsewhere. Again, HDB supplied a beautiful billet mount for the computer. I need a heat gun to pop the fuel and FI warning lights out of the standard mount, and don't have power at my garage, so that will have to wait.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3892/14697344180_842f87cb15_b.jpg)

Then on to the switches. I have an XC-W, which only comes with kill and start buttons and a horrible little push/pull thing for lights (with no brights). A tusk switch would have done, but they are also known to fail, and I decided to go with HDB switch gear. After discussion with Paul, we elected to put everything on the right hand, and leave the left hand free to control only road book and ICO.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3857/14880976731_5b19d7068b_b.jpg)

There will be a push button switch on the centre top clamp to over-ride the lights completely , in the case of a low battery, so this little switch will handle indicators (on the micro toggle), brights and hooter.

This is a lever-mount switch, which will sit on the brake lever and cover kill/start duties.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/14861210536_c6acfa499a_b.jpg)

Unfortunately my bike came with bling levers and the switch only fits original KTM levers. Anyone got a pair of new condition EXC/XCW levers and want to swop?

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5561/14884013515_1132240164_b.jpg)

The brake cable just seems to fit around the front of the billet mount. Will have to keep an eye on that, but seems ok.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3894/14697374659_367671a421_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 11, 2014, 10:01:04 am
Since I was using a consolidating shipping service out the US, I threw in a few extra bits and bobs that normally wouldn't be worth shipping separately. Like these System Tech Racing bleeder buttons:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5567/14697374669_402b8e1d11_b.jpg)

And that was pretty much it for the day. Left hand controls looking pretty neat and tidy:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3922/14697372029_4f6dfa78ec_b.jpg)

...and the overall picture starting to come together.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5565/14697341180_82dd04e2bc_b.jpg)

The overall objective is to keep the bike light, small and simple. It will be used for off road trips and even some off road racing, with minimal effort to switch around, and so far so good.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14883687582_2ba083999f_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3860/14861035576_662823dd55_b.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5577/14881567694_20ddb94fc2_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3840/14903889203_154dbcc3ba_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3866/14697483347_204a67a047_b.jpg)

These will bring the sun out at night:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3841/14881566034_a842049da9_b.jpg)

Tank to go on soon, which will have the delight of getting rid of this nasty POS. That button just doesn't work at all on my tank, and causes endless frustration trying to get the cap off. Talk about solving a problem that doesn't exist, and getting your knickers in a knot in the process. Dumb idea KTM!

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3884/14883684542_0c45384e03_b.jpg)

But the pressing job lying ahead is going to be sorting this out:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5573/14880973401_88e65b0837_b.jpg)

Key decision is how much of original wiring and power leads (and fuses) to use, and how much to run on a separate mini-harness. I'm planning to run separate leads and clean power for the lights, at least. But I've got to figure a key in there too. Time to get busy with wiring diagrams.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: spokie on August 11, 2014, 12:29:34 pm
Nice! Couldn't wait now could you!  :ricky:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 11, 2014, 12:35:48 pm
BTW there is a simple mod for those KTM gas tank filler caps that allows them easy on and off. Google it - you cut the tangs underneath.  :3some:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: SteveD on August 11, 2014, 12:39:27 pm
I have a couple ideas floating around at the moment. One is to build a kevlar/carbon bash plate myself if I have time, with a water container, another is to bolt a 1l Rotopax on opposite the exhaust, and another is a Giant Loop Mojavi with 2 500ml water bottles in the side pockets. Not sure if that will pass scrutineering, but I am assuming they will be a little lax on this. If a full Dakar-style water container was required they would have gone 2/3l rather - there's hardly a point in going to expensive bash plate-mounted water containers for just one litre.

You will need 1 litre, attached to the bike (ie not to you), protected so that it will survive all but a really big crash. No point having water in case of an accident, but the container breaks as soon as you have said accident.

You don't need to attach a water container to the bike any more, all you need is 3l total, in two separate containers. Two CamelBak bladders in your backpack is now acceptable.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: bonova on August 11, 2014, 01:39:45 pm
Farklejustalitus

An obsessive compulsive impulse control disorder. The irresistible urge to open farkle packages almost as soon as delivered just to view them, that then progresses swiftly to seeing how they fit that inevitably turns into hours of garage time that was not budgeted or planned for.

The disorder has a strong correlation to credit card debt - the more the debt the worse the impulse and productivity impact.

Usually only diagnosed after the disorder has ruined relations with either the employer, wife or bank manager, often all three simultaneously.

Not curable. Suggested treatment interventions are very expensive and with very low success rates through intensive group therapy with like affected individuals.

Next group session is in November, the lead therapist is Dr. Alexander Nel.


Bwahahahaha  :imaposer:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Kamanya on August 11, 2014, 01:52:37 pm
I've got it bad.

From the Post Office, I've often only been able to get as far as my car before I open packages and once or twice, whilst still in the Post Office!
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 11, 2014, 02:31:33 pm
A chronic condition, debilitating but not life threatening unless one pushes one's body to the very limits while on medication (particular concern over group therapy outings where fellow sufferers play down the impact of this disease and encourage one to act irresponsibly).

Best offset by regular exercise in what is known as the 'attack' position. I believe the most effective therapy involves distracting the sufferer, and calming the brain by making him or her follow lists of hieroglyphic inscriptions on long rolls of paper, while simultaneously chanting numbers between 0 and 360, maintaining balance on a fast moving platform and alternatively twisting wrists and squeezing index and forefingers against palm.

Women, for some reason, are largely immune to the condition. Much like another dangerous condition, 'man flu', they are known to show very little sympathy, and pooh-pooh its seriousness in a disdainful manner.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 11, 2014, 06:20:47 pm
Regarding the lights, according to Baja Designs the new fuel injected KTMs put out plenty of power for them, but I will confirm that again.

Just seems it would give it extra stability esp with HPDE which has more flex?

Paul seems to think it will handle just fine with the weight I intend to carry, and has been tested as such. If I feel it needs extra mount points, there are the holes and brackets, yes. I'm also planning on having some spare parts. The nav tower is by far the most likely part of the bike to break on this little adventure.

Curious. What are you planning to use to carry your water? I'm currently designing  a rear rack that will take two tool tubes that can carry 1.5l each, or just one with water and one with tools, first aid etc... But I worry about the weight on the subframe

I have a couple ideas floating around at the moment. One is to build a kevlar/carbon bash plate myself if I have time, with a water container, another is to bolt a 1l Rotopax on opposite the exhaust, and another is a Giant Loop Mojavi with 2 500ml water bottles in the side pockets. Not sure if that will pass scrutineering, but I am assuming they will be a little lax on this. If a full Dakar-style water container was required they would have gone 2/3l rather - there's hardly a point in going to expensive bash plate-mounted water containers for just one litre.
Reckon the info is correct, read a review which stated the stator produced 200W of power. Would guess this to be DC so you are good to go  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 11, 2014, 09:18:00 pm
According to Paul from HDB - and he's been running these lights for ages, so he should know -

Quote
It's a full DC system and uses only about 60watts for FI, ECU etc, so there's more then enough for 70watts of lights and 1w GPS. There are schematics in the repair manual, but they're not very good and I'm not even sure they're complete. We can try and help if you have a specific question, but I ran into the same thing when I first got my bike, no overall schematic like the 530/525's in the manual.

Thing is with this bike already pumping out 200watts DC you can wire in anything you'd like right from the battery.

There are a few things that are different, one is the Reg/Rect has a circuit that powers up the FI, ECU and lights and accessories through two different relays that stay on for a bit after the motor is killed, nice that it kills power to those without manually switching them off.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: T9ER on August 12, 2014, 09:21:00 am
I've got it bad.

From the Post Office, I've often only been able to get as far as my car before I open packages and once or twice, whilst still in the Post Office!

Ha Ha, I thought it was just me! I'm like a kid on his birthday, I always open them on the counter while they are processing the payment!! :laughing4:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: bud500 on August 20, 2014, 08:04:27 pm
Love this build and the writing style.
Quality pics too.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 21, 2014, 08:31:59 am
This build has slowed to a crawl. There's been a lot of time spent in a chronic condition called 'Wiring Paralysis' which involves staring at KTM wiring diagrams, learning new software, making my own diagrams, discussing things with people on ADVRider and just generally engaging in some filthy procrastination. Time to get dirty.

But first, a report back on the weekend. I managed to get another hour or two in the man cave. What was really needed was an entire weekend, morning to midnight, to slap this thing down. Best laid plans and all...

So, before I got too tight with my fairing bolts, I decided I better put the steering damper on. Off with her head!

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/14987016435_7d731ed3e5_b.jpg)

And on with the Scotts frame bracket and shallow top washer.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3877/14964023846_c972ef2e33_b.jpg)

Took the opportunity to grease up the steerer bearings. Those things aren't going to be drying out any time soon, I can tell you for free.

Wham bam thank you m'am!

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5585/14800356060_0b7256490d_b.jpg)

Next: off with her belly.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3919/14964023746_04a4de6c50_b.jpg)

Quick inspection of the rat's nest of wiring at the fan - I want an override switch for the fan so I'm going to have to splice in here.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/14800330249_aee85e5552_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 21, 2014, 08:45:27 am
Fuel injection systems depend heavily on very clean fuel. Compromise here, and that injector is blocking up and my Amageza ride is coming to a swift stop, probably in some godforsaken deserted corner of the Richtersveld. A mod that lots of the US guys do is to replace the miniature 20 micron filter that sits in the fuel line quick release with one of these:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3842/14800353890_6335064af8_b.jpg)

It's a stainless, washable Golan 10 micron filter, with a huge filtration surface area. A shame I didn't photograph the standard filter when I took it out and chucked it. It's incredible tiny - basically sits inside the fuel line. This isn't.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5555/14986661322_ac312c0729_b.jpg)

Now: A-cup vs Double-D.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/14800329179_427d43eabc_b.jpg)

The standard tank comes off with one bolt at the top and two bolts attaching the side panels to the radiator. The big boy attaches with just the one bolt at the top. Pretty neat, and one could switch between fuel bowser and lean enduro machine in 3 mins if one had two of these:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5554/14800409128_ef22fba763_b.jpg)

That's a fuel pump assembly. Two nuts at the bottom of the tank, and four little screws at the back for the electricals and out it comes. All pretty easy peasy, and a shame it's such an expensive piece, or I'd just buy another and have the two tank options ready to roll. I have got a spare Cycleworks fuel pump left from my 690, which I think matches this one, so that's going to be in my tool bag for Amageza.

Somewhat annoyingly the Acerbis/KTM 20l tank is significantly thinner at the base than the standard tank, so one has to cut a bit off the nut and fuel line spigot to get them to seat properly.

I bought the tank used, and unfortunately I discovered that the previous owner had stripped one of the threads that attach electrics at the back of the tank. How to repair a thread in polyprop fuel tank... anyone?

Also kept over from my 690 was a nice pair of official KTM Rally pegs, to suit my size 11's. This:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/14983913901_3d36a21483_b.jpg)

...vs this:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5580/14987014985_c73ab8c2c9_b.jpg)

The main thing is not to get hit in the eye with the peg hanger spring when you try get them back in. Slippery little bastards.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 21, 2014, 09:04:57 am
Now... for some reason I've been a little apprehensive about the electrics on this bike. Wiring is often where rally bikes fall down, and Bang-Bang may be able to wind a road book on by hand while doing this:

(http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2014-dakar-rally-stage-four-results.jpg)

...but I can't. And call me superstitious, but after this little incident http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=133427.msg2581691#msg2581691 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=133427.msg2581691#msg2581691) I think I'm rightly paranoid about the potential for electrical maladies to destroy an otherwise wonderful little jaunt in sunny landscapes.

So, I dropped quite a lot of money here http://www.easternbeaver.com (http://www.easternbeaver.com) and got a bunch of high quality sealed connectors, little fuse boxes and a decent set of crimpers. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Man needs tools. And a good decision that proved to be.

I'm over 40, which means my eyesight has given me warning that my body has begun the long, slow process of degradation that will result in a horrible condition called Old Age. Which is why we take on idiotic enterprises such as this: to pretend to ourselves that life is good, the economy is indestructible and we shall live forever. But more to the point, it's hard to crimp wires on miniature connectors in the dark. Decisive action was needed, and I called up my good friend The Fox, and begged her to move her husband's (The Hawk) 990 out the garage so I could have lights to carry on my Very Important Rally Bike Build.

She saw my point (or generously indulged my depraved wailing and agreed to help), so I quickly slapped the bike back together... no lights, road book and ICO barely held on by one bolt, everything rattling... and gingerly rode it over in the dusk to their house. Did I mention the bike isn't roadworthy?

Quickly stripped the bike again, stared meaningfully at it for an hour, and decided the plastic weave sheathing I'd bought for the wiring was utter shite, and the automotive wire I had was also too thick, locked the garage in disgust and went home.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 21, 2014, 09:15:35 am
Thanks to the good folks here, and more wasted time shopping, I found some proper heat resistant sheathing here http://www.hellermanntyton.co.za (http://www.hellermanntyton.co.za) and some really nice silicone-based wire at a place in Paarden Island. Both can take 180 degC which will just have to be enough.

So, back I went that night for a proper crack at getting the wiring underway. Here's my first attempt:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3899/14986660682_6740b504bc_b.jpg)

My favourite parts supplier in the entire world, Paul Degarate, makes these brilliant little billet LED indicators. Say GOODBYE! to broken rear indicators:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3860/14964023356_00552bf90b_b.jpg)

This is what you call a tail-tidy!

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5579/14800467087_c094a8fe10_b.jpg)

And the back end of the bike back on.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3891/14987014525_5a11e2bc9a_b.jpg)

The rest of the night passed in a fury of crimping. Sooner or later you've just got to get stuck in. More action and less photographs, but here's where the evening ended. This little baby is a sealed Metripack fuse holder that now delivers power to my ICO, Roadbook and USB sockets on separate circuits. I reckon one more night and I might just have a rideable bike again. Now wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3906/14800466787_eaaf2a9b0d_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: bud500 on August 21, 2014, 09:30:29 am
Love that tail tidy!!
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Dwerg on August 21, 2014, 09:31:10 am
Looking good so far!  :thumleft:

I am definitely leaning towards building a bike myself next time round
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 21, 2014, 09:33:29 am
Looking good so far!  :thumleft:

I am definitely leaning towards building a bike myself next time round

It's a jol. Half science project half art project. :)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on August 21, 2014, 09:37:44 am
I must learn to take photos like that. Makes it look even prettier.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 21, 2014, 09:50:02 am
Sorry but that head bearing looks a bit dry for my liking  ::)  Wonder what the lower one looks like ... normally worse. I actually like to pop the seals off if they have and rinse and repack properly with best grade grease ...
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 21, 2014, 10:01:39 am
Sorry but that head bearing looks a bit dry for my liking  ::)  Wonder what the lower one looks like ... normally worse. I actually like to pop the seals off if they have and rinse and repack properly with best grade grease ...

Yeah I packed them both, top and bottom, with grease (photo was pre-grease). I just have a tub of Belray waterproof stuff. What do you recommend?
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 21, 2014, 10:04:02 am
Sorry but that head bearing looks a bit dry for my liking  ::)  Wonder what the lower one looks like ... normally worse. I actually like to pop the seals off if they have and rinse and repack properly with best grade grease ...

Yeah I packed them both, top and bottom, with grease (photo was pre-grease). I just have a tub of Belray waterproof stuff. What do you recommend?

That sounds just right  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Bazinga on August 21, 2014, 11:03:25 am
Just great!!

Keep it up
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 24, 2014, 08:48:10 pm
I was determined to finish this build this weekend. My brother had a birthday party Friday night, and I woke up with a beastly hangover from hell, but it's surprising how a day spent alone, in a cold, dark garage can sooth a ravaged brain.

Time to set upon the top clamp. Switches in, and LED's superglued in and wired up:

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3867/15021545382_6dac5bdf6f_b.jpg)

It's a fiddly job for big fingers.

Tested and working! Relief.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5554/14835369297_499b7b5059_b.jpg)

There are a lot of vulnerable wires and solder, so it made sense to silicone the whole lot together to keep everything stable. It all ended up a bit neater than this picture suggests.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3920/15021546252_6e6d80bd04_b.jpg)

Relay for the brights. The low beam was wired to an programmable Skene 175 dimmer. Nice piece of kit, that. The lights have an override off switch on the top clamp, and the brights button at the throttle hand switches between 50% power on the bottom light (wide-cornering Baja Designs Squadron) and 100% on both lights.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3924/15018826441_9f1c32176d_b.jpg)

The top clamp dried overnight and went back on with a 6-way Sumitomo connector. One power bus for the four switches and one ground bus for the LEDs. The four switches will run: lights on/off; nav power; fan override; and something else.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3867/15018826361_843e103821_b.jpg)

This is where it all started to go a little pear. Wiring had been a joy to this point, but it's the final harness connections that start to become a bit of a mare. There's a lot of cables up front, three harnesses arriving at the base and way too many connections for my peace of mind.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3853/14835171159_145a8fee60_b.jpg)

One thing that really helps is that you can take one side of the HDB fairing off and really see what's going on.

The battery end is looking sorted, though. Testing complete, and everything's working but I've got to lose a lot of bulk at the front somehow.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5557/14998898286_c683f22260_b.jpg)

Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 24, 2014, 08:50:00 pm
So... it's STILL not finished, but here are some pix of the final setup in the meantime. I need a couple days this week to work out how I'm cutting the wiring down at the front and simplifying things a bit. Everything's working at least. We're close... very close.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3913/14835169979_9f27c4cccc_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3835/14835169729_fbbb410469_b.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5590/15018824731_d3239ee5d3_b.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5585/15021532342_03ec53a1bb_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3854/15021890935_3dd4b32cd8_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: tour on August 25, 2014, 06:24:19 am
Looking very good there.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: pietas on August 25, 2014, 07:49:54 am
Nice work. Very neat

Question: do you have the contact details for the place you bought the wiring from in Montague Gardens?
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 25, 2014, 09:57:04 am
Nice work. Very neat

Question: do you have the contact details for the place you bought the wiring from in Montague Gardens?

If you mean the actual wire itself, that came from Jedelect on Section St in Paarden Island 021-5110262. It's the silicone coated stuff - it's thinner, easier to work with, resists up to 180deg and carries a higher current. Perfect.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: pietas on August 26, 2014, 07:19:13 am
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 26, 2014, 07:48:47 am
Max it looks great, switched on the lights yet ?
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 26, 2014, 09:02:18 am
Yeah - they're bright!! Main challenge is reducing the mini connections harness at the front. Getting there slowly...
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 26, 2014, 08:16:19 pm
AT LAST! I have actually finished the wiring, and the bike will be off to roadworthy as soon as I collect the front brake pressure switch from KTM tomorrow. Test ride time this weekend...
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 27, 2014, 07:29:55 pm
Some Q's if you don't mind :

A : what thichness is the HDPE (I'm guessing 8mm ?)
B : Distance between two centre points on the lights ?
C : Distance between bottom light and fender ?

Just curious  :peepwall:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 28, 2014, 07:13:44 pm
6mm HDPE, about 11cm between centres of lights and 7cm from bottom of lower light to centre crease in mudguard. These last two figures are a bit adjustable depending on rake of lights. There's a bit of adjustment capacity in the fairing system overall - hole options, some slots etc.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 28, 2014, 08:05:43 pm
6mm HDPE, about 11cm between centres of lights and 7cm from bottom of lower light to centre crease in mudguard. These last two figures are a bit adjustable depending on rake of lights. There's a bit of adjustment capacity in the fairing system overall - hole options, some slots etc.
:thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 28, 2014, 10:34:50 pm
Jeez, getting a bike through roadworthy can be a pain in the ass! After slaving away for days (nights) in ham-fisted fashion at the wiring, I finally got everything working and got a 3-day permit (not exactly generous) from the license dept yesterday. I then took a gap in the weather to whip down to the testing station on Sir Lowry to get it passed, and get the formalities out of the way.

Not so fast. Bastards went over the bike with a fine tooth comb and told me my fancy new flickers at the rear weren't visible enough, and my lights were spot lights (duh!) and didn't have the required cut off for the road.

We know what happened next, right? Yes. I dashed off to Midas for some 'road legal' cheapie spots that had been on my 690 and I thought might pass, and ferreted around in my spares box for some old flush mount flickers to tape on further back than my fancypants billet flickers. Luckily they were LEDs which means the flasher worked, and double lucky I had two spare relays and one spare 4-pin plug, so I could make up a little harness chop-chop for the new spots. They even fitted exactly in the HDB fairing. The gods were on my side, at last.

But I was still reaching a bit here to think this might all work. I took another break in the rain at lunchtime today, and went back... not without some trepidation. There's only so much time and money a man can waste. The testing guy with long enough legs to ride my bike (I kid you not) had gone to town and wouldn't be coming back for half an hour so I blew them off and went across to the other testing station at Culemborg.

Luckily the first lot had only looked over my bike (somewhat obsessively, if you ask me) and told me they would fail it, without actually taking my money, so I didn't have to pay twice. But... whatthefuck?? The same obsession with lights, and the junior testing guy was all for failing me outright. I mean, what is wrong with a little blinding of other road users?? Honestly, these Midas cheapies (which I shall hopefully be returning to tomorrow) aren't bright enough to blind a gnat, but I suppose that is beside the point.

The head honcho at the testing station is a biker, and after saying that actually the beam was sort of flattish, and he'd accept it, spent the rest of the test showing me photos of his 30-yr old racing Honda road bike while his assistant crawled around on the ground with a flashlight trying to find my engine no., (which was skulking deviously behind the brake lever)

And.... well... that was that! He wasn't interested in finding out if my flickers actually worked, or if there was a hooter, or if the brakes worked. And god forbid he'd actually ride the bike!

YYYEEEESSSSSS!!!!

Then back to my generous friend The Fox's garage to strip off all the offending crap: cheap lights, bad flickers, number plate holder, reflector, number plate light etc. And I celebrated by buying myself an utterly, thoroughly and comprehensively illegal numberplate the size of a postage stamp. If you're going to have an illegal numberplate, you may as well do the job properly.

I spent this evening fitting the fairing (I'd gone Mad Max to the testing station), grab straps, bash plate, one remaining rally peg (revelatory note: fitting KTM pegs takes about one zillionth the time and avoids shooting yourself in the eye with a spring if you have a mate to help!!) The lights are sensational, and yes, on brights they will absolutely blind other road users, but this is an off road bike isn't it? I guess I have a rally bike now. Job done. 

Did a rough set up of the sag and rear suspension, and that, as they say in the movies, is pretty much that. If my bloody flu lifts we'll give it a good test this weekend.

Peetchers tomorra...
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: spokie on August 29, 2014, 01:53:15 am
 :hello2: WELL DONE! It is (sometimes) hilarious how those guys operate! HAHAHA...!
If I may ask, why did you register roadworthy the bike after this rally conversion?
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Aquatic on August 29, 2014, 02:48:23 am
Hey Max

How do the HDB handguard mirrors work for you?
Considering a set for my Dakar. Roadworthy?
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 29, 2014, 06:48:10 am
Hey Max

How do the HDB handguard mirrors work for you?
Considering a set for my Dakar. Roadworthy?

They're pretty good, actually. The right side is perfect - it's perhaps a little smaller than you're used to, but it seems to be a bit concave and gives a good view of the road behind. I haven't got the left one as well placed yet. Look, if you're looking for a good road mirror and doing a daily commute I'd suggest getting a Double Take http://www.doubletakemirror.com (http://www.doubletakemirror.com) or something like that. But the HDB folds completely out of the way when you hit the dirt. I think it's a great design - I'm not putting standard mirrors on again. Seriously, all the HDB stuff is so well thought through - you want it on your bike.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Vissie500 on August 29, 2014, 07:03:09 am
Well done!!

I'm now seriously thinking of going this route with my 500.

 :ricky:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 29, 2014, 08:36:40 am
Quote from: spokie
If I may ask, why did you [s
register[/s] roadworthy the bike after this rally conversion?

It's also my lightweight/rough touring bike. And my only road bike! :))
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: T9ER on August 29, 2014, 08:50:25 am
Your bike looks great, I think you have a winner there. Really nice build thanks for sharing.
I nearly lost an eye changing footpegs on mine until I decided to check out youtube and found a vid of a guy who shows you how to do it with a pair of long nose vice grips. I bought a pair and it takes about 2 min per peg on your own, super easy.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 29, 2014, 09:40:06 am
Yeah - that's Jeff Slaven I think. He makes it look easy but I couldn't find any long nose vice grips at the local hardware. A mate served equally well - difference between swearing and potential lost eyes, and a 60sec job!! :)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: SteveD on August 29, 2014, 09:59:03 am
Quote from: spokie
If I may ask, why did you roadworthy the bike after this rally conversion?

From the Amageza SRs:

5.1. GENERAL CONDITIONS FOR ALL MOTORCYCLES AND QUADS
1. The Amageza Rallye is open to motorcycles and quads (hereinafter collectively referred to as “motorcycles”) duly covered by a registration certificate and adapted to off-road use. The registration certificate must always reflect the modifications made to the motorcycle, in particular to the capacity, make, type and commercial description. These motorcycles and their equipment entered must, throughout the competition, comply with the International Vienna Convention of 1968, the national legal requirements for road traffic of the country in which the vehicle is registered, the road legislation of the country where the event is held and with other rules specified in the Supplementary Regulations. If a competition motorcycle does not require registration in the country where it comes from, the motorcycle must still respect the FIM Sporting and Technical rules.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: dirtWarp on August 29, 2014, 11:04:54 am
Quote from: spokie
If I may ask, why did you roadworthy the bike after this rally conversion?

From the Amageza SRs:

5.1. GENERAL CONDITIONS FOR ALL MOTORCYCLES AND QUADS
1. The Amageza Rallye is open to motorcycles and quads (hereinafter collectively referred to as “motorcycles”) duly covered by a registration certificate and adapted to off-road use. The registration certificate must always reflect the modifications made to the motorcycle, in particular to the capacity, make, type and commercial description. These motorcycles and their equipment entered must, throughout the competition, comply with the International Vienna Convention of 1968, the national legal requirements for road traffic of the country in which the vehicle is registered, the road legislation of the country where the event is held and with other rules specified in the Supplementary Regulations. If a competition motorcycle does not require registration in the country where it comes from, the motorcycle must still respect the FIM Sporting and Technical rules.

I think what spookman was trying to say was: why not roadworthy the bike before fitting "hard to pass" rally bits.
I would have the bike roadworthy'd 1st, using the legitimate stock headlight etc.
After obtaining the licence plate and disc, nothing prevents me from changing the lights, adding a roadbook and smaller indicators. This is what I'm doing with my 525
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Dwerg on August 29, 2014, 11:09:17 am
Why roadworthy at all?

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=142631.msg2948836#msg2948836 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=142631.msg2948836#msg2948836)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 29, 2014, 11:51:18 am
This roadworthy thing has been a moving target for some time  ::)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Scooterbike on August 29, 2014, 12:48:07 pm
Quote from: spokie
If I may ask, why did you roadworthy the bike after this rally conversion?

From the Amageza SRs:

5.1. GENERAL CONDITIONS FOR ALL MOTORCYCLES AND QUADS
1. The Amageza Rallye is open to motorcycles and quads (hereinafter collectively referred to as “motorcycles”) duly covered by a registration certificate and adapted to off-road use. The registration certificate must always reflect the modifications made to the motorcycle, in particular to the capacity, make, type and commercial description. These motorcycles and their equipment entered must, throughout the competition, comply with the International Vienna Convention of 1968, the national legal requirements for road traffic of the country in which the vehicle is registered, the road legislation of the country where the event is held and with other rules specified in the Supplementary Regulations. If a competition motorcycle does not require registration in the country where it comes from, the motorcycle must still respect the FIM Sporting and Technical rules.

I think what spookman was trying to say was: why not roadworthy the bike before fitting "hard to pass" rally bits.
I would have the bike roadworthy'd 1st, using the legitimate stock headlight etc.
After obtaining the licence plate and disc, nothing prevents me from changing the lights, adding a roadbook and smaller indicators. This is what I'm doing with my 525

Ja that's what I did. Took the stock bike, slapped on some plate size indicators etc. and got it roadworthy. then started with the rally kit. The one rear indicator was right behind the exhaust, and melts away within 10km, so I had to het my timing right as I was riding it to the testing station.
the guy still tuned me I need a chain guard for the passenger....  :imaposer:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 29, 2014, 01:59:46 pm
Quote from: spokie
If I may ask, why did you roadworthy the bike after this rally conversion?

From the Amageza SRs:

5.1. GENERAL CONDITIONS FOR ALL MOTORCYCLES AND QUADS
1. The Amageza Rallye is open to motorcycles and quads (hereinafter collectively referred to as “motorcycles”) duly covered by a registration certificate and adapted to off-road use. The registration certificate must always reflect the modifications made to the motorcycle, in particular to the capacity, make, type and commercial description. These motorcycles and their equipment entered must, throughout the competition, comply with the International Vienna Convention of 1968, the national legal requirements for road traffic of the country in which the vehicle is registered, the road legislation of the country where the event is held and with other rules specified in the Supplementary Regulations. If a competition motorcycle does not require registration in the country where it comes from, the motorcycle must still respect the FIM Sporting and Technical rules.

I think what spookman was trying to say was: why not roadworthy the bike before fitting "hard to pass" rally bits.
I would have the bike roadworthy'd 1st, using the legitimate stock headlight etc.
After obtaining the licence plate and disc, nothing prevents me from changing the lights, adding a roadbook and smaller indicators. This is what I'm doing with my 525

Nobody said I was smart.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 29, 2014, 04:32:20 pm
...the guy still tuned me I need a chain guard for the passenger....  :imaposer:


Me too... but after pointing out the absurdity of clamping a chain guard on an off road bike, he consulted the manual and discovered it only applied to bikes which came with chain guards from the factory.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 29, 2014, 04:35:36 pm
And here she is. Colours and graphics may yet change, and I'll wait to pass comment until I've actually ridden her in anger. But for now, I'm delighted... this is half the fun, innit?

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5574/15050127176_ced186a554_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3914/15050126856_18fc24969b_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3898/14886494710_b254665318_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/15070109891_5638bcb582_b.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/15050126126_5bb2813d22_b.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3857/14886493860_45c7393c3c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on August 29, 2014, 04:37:23 pm
Ag the road worthy places differ night and day, some places will put it through as long as the engine and frame numbers match up never mind the other stuff. I guess the strict ones at least are still trying to do a proper job .... then again have you seen half of the taxi's on the road ! I was also worried going to the roadworthy with LED lights  :-\
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: dirtWarp on August 29, 2014, 05:02:49 pm
And here she is. Colours and graphics may yet change, and I'll wait to pass comment until I've actually ridden her in anger. But for now, I'm delighted... this is half the fun, innit?
Sure is.
Congrats, your bike looks great!
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: markdiver on August 29, 2014, 05:35:34 pm
Fantastic and very lekker Max, looks perfect.  Now ride it hard and sort out any gremlins that may be lurking.  Have fun & enjoy.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Crossed-up on August 29, 2014, 07:03:31 pm
Looks the biz, it does! Congrats.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 30, 2014, 05:39:55 am
Looks grand  :thumleft:

PS. Trim those roadbook bolts, they going to hook or hurt something. Go ride her hard and dirty ... will give her some houding.  :ricky:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: I&horse on August 30, 2014, 12:19:13 pm
Damn that looks good, I'm really interested to know how it compares to the 690 especially ito wind protection and longer distance riding. I'm sure there will be no comparison in the rough stuff.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 30, 2014, 08:10:16 pm
Damn that looks good, I'm really interested to know how it compares to the 690 especially ito wind protection and longer distance riding. I'm sure there will be no comparison in the rough stuff.

Just rode it today: If you're asking you want a 690. 690 motor has more 'thrust', for want of a better word, over 100. It's not that this thing is slow. Quite the contrary, it's just the 690 is more locomotive-like. Having said that with a gearing change the 450 will be plenty quick & comfortable - the new seat is lekker. I'd just feel too sorry for it thrashing it over 120 indefinitely.

Then your last point: in the rough, and the rougher the more this is true, it takes apart the 690 with a sledgehammer. It's a comprehensive, utter slaughtering. The 690 can do it all for sure, but if you want light on its feet, jumping over drainage ditches and eating broken, rutted roads for breakfast, this is in another class.

You really already know which one you want. I did, and I made the right choice. But I do miss that 690 - it's a sensational bike.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 30, 2014, 08:16:01 pm
Did you do the Seat Concepts covering yourself (looks slightly loose)? What fabric did they use - I know they have quite a choice.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Dirt Junkie on August 30, 2014, 08:19:31 pm
 Looks great
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Cracker on August 30, 2014, 08:41:31 pm
Bike looks very neat and simple - great job  :thumleft:

Makes me wish that I'd converted my 450  :'( :'(
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 30, 2014, 08:45:13 pm
Did you do the Seat Concepts covering yourself (looks slightly loose)? What fabric did they use - I know they have quite a choice.

Actually it was a complete seat. I agree - I'm going to write to them. Tried it today - super comfortable but noticeably higher than stock.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 30, 2014, 10:11:32 pm
Did you do the Seat Concepts covering yourself (looks slightly loose)? What fabric did they use - I know they have quite a choice.

Actually it was a complete seat. I agree - I'm going to write to them. Tried it today - super comfortable but noticeably higher than stock.

Their seats are meant to be the dogs danglers - been thinking of a kit for my Husky.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: 1ougat on August 31, 2014, 06:51:33 am
She's very .... WHITE  !!!   :lol8:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: BiG DoM on August 31, 2014, 08:04:59 am
She's very .... WHITE  !!!   :lol8:

 Eish - jebo looks like he has a white tendency  O0
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on August 31, 2014, 03:40:44 pm
I assure you, orange hand guards would not make this bike go faster. The limits are all in the rider! :)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Beserker on August 31, 2014, 06:52:49 pm
She's very .... WHITE  !!!   :lol8:

 Eish - jebo looks like he has a white tendency  O0

White = "Real Estate" for sponsors  ;) ;)
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: evansv on September 05, 2014, 07:38:03 am
I like very much :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Bazinga on September 05, 2014, 10:38:41 am
Looks the business!!!
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Dwerg on November 28, 2014, 09:09:49 am
Just read through this again. Class build  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Dwerg on November 28, 2014, 09:12:40 am
Would you change anything if you had to do it again? Did the fact that everything turns with the bars bug you at all? Didn't it worsen the jarring/shaking on the bars?
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: MaxThePanda on November 28, 2014, 02:51:09 pm
HowzIt! Thanks! Literally the only thing I'd change is the way I mounted the Etrex. Had it on a little extension plate and it vibrated too much and switched off. Luckily I had a backup!

Possibly if I wanted to spend a lot more cash I'd buy the Dutch under-seat rally tank, but it's not essential by any means.

The handlebar-mounted rally lite setup is the business. Doesn't feel heavy at all - from half a tank on, the bike rides like a motocross bike!

Will hopefully be back next year on exactly the same setup.
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: sidetrack on November 30, 2014, 03:32:32 pm
Bike looks good in black  :thumleft:
Title: Re: PANDAMOBILE UNDER THE KNIFE: KTM 450 XCW Rally Lite build
Post by: Overland Bruce on November 02, 2019, 04:26:48 am
Since I was using a consolidating shipping service out the US, I threw in a few extra bits and bobs that normally wouldn't be worth shipping separately.

Max, which consolidating service do you use? Sounds like that kind of service could save a lot of money on shipping.


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