Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Kneeslider on October 12, 2014, 12:39:55 pm

Title: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Kneeslider on October 12, 2014, 12:39:55 pm
Ok, so following on from the "Why are we hitting the deck" thread, http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=161050.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=161050.0) I put forward an argument that riders were loosing the skills that should be ingrained in us as second nature if we are to remain safe and derive maximum enjoyment from our machines.

In the interest of safety and learning, and maybe just an eye opener to drive home the fact that we are not quite the hot shots we think we are, and how automation has robbed us of our skills, I would like a few volunteers to do a simple braking test and post up the results, for us to debate.
Of course you can tell me to sod off, that is cool, but it would be in your best interests and a real eye opener to go out and try.

Firstly you will need a bike that has some form of ABS/braking aid, and  clear quiet stretch of road, a long tape measure, some chalk and a helper or two.

Firstly, draw a chalk line across the road as a braking reference point.
Start far enough behind the line to be able to accelerate to 100km/h by the time you reach the braking reference point line.
Get your helper with the chalk and tape to stand down range where you estimate you will come to a stop, so he/she can mark the position of the front wheel, once stopped.

First run, with ABS active to establish a bench mark.
Accelerate to 100Km/h, as you cross the reference line, apply maximum braking and bring the bike to a stop.
Let your helper, mark the position of the wheel with chalk, measure the braking distance and note it down, you can even draw a second line across the road at this point as a target distance.

Second run, disable ABS  by whatever means applies to your bike, switch/pulling the fuse, whatever, so that you have no braking assistance.
Again, accelerate to 100km/h, ay the reference line, apply maximum safe braking, and measure the distance, note it down.
I guarantee you it will not be something to be proud of.
Do another ten such runs without braking assistance, and note the stopping distances down.

Then come and post the results on this thread, let us compare notes, and all learn something form it.
A few things I can tell you now, your first un-aided run will be WAAAY longer than the run with ABS active.
Do another 10 runs, and you will see the stopping distances getting shorter and shorter with every run, as you get a feel for where the edge of the grip is, by run 10 you may even be very close to the ABS aided stopping distance.
Which shows us, that;
We don't know our bikes as well as we think we do
Our bikes are capable of a lot more than we think
The bikes limits far exceed our own
The more we practice the better our skills get and the more in tune with our bikes we become.
The safer we become.

If you have a bike without ABS, you can still participate in the experiment, look up the road test for your bike, (Google knows everything) and extract the tested stopping distance from the test and use that as your bench mark, post results.

So now you think you have it down pat?
How about spraying some water down, or spreading some gravel on the road now?  :biggrin:

Give me an honest run and we can all benefit form it, remember you only BS yourself.

  
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Welsh on October 12, 2014, 12:48:46 pm
Sod off  8)
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: volroom on October 12, 2014, 12:53:26 pm
I removed the ABS from my R1150GS, cause I just couldn't live with it. I've been thinking of the repercussions though..I was riding in the rain over the weekend, and I tried to keep a safe following distance from the car in front of me, but I was guessing. I need to do some emergency brakes to explore, I need to know exactly what to do in case of an emergency stop. Will maybe do this, if I find the time.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Nicobie on October 12, 2014, 02:03:13 pm
You hit it on the head.

That is why we must attend training courses to get to know your bike under controlled conditions. I call it "bonding" as I must trust my bike and know my own limitations.

I did a race track course, with my GS1200 and its amazing how much your bike can do, with braking and cornering.
My offoad courses also gave me confidence in those conditions, but the biggest point I learned, was not to pannic as you learn your bike's limitations.

And I think we must at least go on a course once a year, not only to hone your skills, but also to learn from others and make new friends.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 12, 2014, 02:14:10 pm
You hit it on the head.

That is why we must attend training courses to get to know your bike under controlled conditions. I call it "bonding" as I must trust my bike and know my own limitations.

I did a race track course, with my GS1200 and its amazing how much your bike can do, with braking and cornering.
My offoad courses also gave me confidence in those conditions, but the biggest point I learned, was not to pannic as you learn your bike's limitations.

And I think we must at least go on a course once a year, not only to hone your skills, but also to learn from others and make new friends.

And to race!!!
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: StuartC on October 12, 2014, 03:41:50 pm
You might ride like a tit,, I'm a fekking genius on a bike!!
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: HB 9 on October 12, 2014, 03:47:19 pm
You will get the same effect on 60km/h... = You / I ride shit....  :peepwall:

There is no skill in going fast... only skill is to remain alive when things go wrong...  :deal:
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: subie on October 12, 2014, 03:50:34 pm
You might ride like a tit,, I'm a fekking genius on a bike!!

 :laughing4:
Title: Re:
Post by: Franky3 on October 12, 2014, 04:05:55 pm
I think this is a great idea. I would try it some time. Improving your skill is extending your life.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: volroom on October 12, 2014, 04:09:58 pm
You will get the same effect on 60km/h... = You / I ride shit....  :peepwall:

There is no skill in going fast... only skill is to remain alive when things go wrong...  :deal:


there are huge differences in stopping distance as you increase your speed. at 60km/h, should you preform emergency stop, you could do it in less than half the distance compared to doing 120km/h
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Marc D on October 12, 2014, 04:35:45 pm
You hit it on the head.

That is why we must attend training courses to get to know your bike under controlled conditions. I call it "bonding" as I must trust my bike and know my own limitations.

I did a race track course, with my GS1200 and its amazing how much your bike can do, with braking and cornering.
My offoad courses also gave me confidence in those conditions, but the biggest point I learned, was not to pannic as you learn your bike's limitations.

And I think we must at least go on a course once a year, not only to hone your skills, but also to learn from others and make new friends.

I have also done the BMW courses at Zwartkops but find the trackdays and everyday riding also keeps one's skills honed.   
 

Dodging cars and pedestrians improves the swerving skills. Braking for dogs running out of driveways sorts out the braking practice.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: HB 9 on October 12, 2014, 05:08:28 pm
You will get the same effect on 60km/h... = You / I ride shit....  :peepwall:

There is no skill in going fast... only skill is to remain alive when things go wrong...  :deal:


there are huge differences in stopping distance as you increase your speed. at 60km/h, should you preform emergency stop, you could do it in less than half the distance compared to doing 120km/h

Precisely my point.... if it is for the self test and exercise - why not calculate the risk at a lower speed... :deal:
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 12, 2014, 05:40:51 pm
The higher the speed the more critical your reaction time becomes, since you are covering a lot of metres per second.

It is important to practice your braking from a higher speed also, since I have noticed that some are scared to brake hard when at a higher speed, and would try and scrub off
a considerate amount of speed before really starting to brake. This is of course fatal, or could be.

I rode with GJ and Buff on Saturday, and while GJ was training on his roadbook, I was behind Buff practising braking late into gravelly corners. Tricky, but this is where
most lose it, overrunning corners.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: HB 9 on October 12, 2014, 05:45:16 pm
The higher the speed the more critical your reaction time becomes, since you are covering a lot of metres per second.

It is important to practice your braking from a higher speed also, since I have noticed that some are scared to brake hard when at a higher speed, and would try and scrub off
a considerate amount of speed before really starting to brake. This is of course fatal, or could be.

I rode with GJ and Buff on Saturday, and while GJ was training on his roadbook, I was behind Buff practising braking late into gravelly corners. Tricky, but this is where
most lose it, overrunning corners.

Agree... but as I read the post it was aimed at the riders less skilled and experienced...

It is important to work on one's skill level or keep within your riding abilities / limitations.

My experience is that it is the "unforeseen" that cause havoc - and adding speed to it - cause carnage...
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: HeeBs on October 12, 2014, 05:51:05 pm
You might ride like a tit,, I'm a fekking genius on a bike!!

True! I'm a riding God -  ask my medical aid !!!   :biggrin:
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: immigrant on October 12, 2014, 06:54:29 pm
People that have never ridden a bike goes and buys a 1200cc. They like the lifestyle that the advertising presents. If you have to go get "lessons" to ride your bike you should rethink your new hobby. Experience is the key. Spending hours and hours on dirt bikes in the open veld behind your house when you should be doing homework, dodging traffic on your 50cc visiting your girlfriend, then graduating to a 125cc, and then maybe a 500cc and then you spoil yourself with a 1000cc.
But nowadays people walk in to a dealership, drop R200,000 on a big GSA and then go to "school" so somebody can show them how to pick up the beast when it falls over!!  You need to crawl before you can run. If you are scared of your bike you should sell it.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Marc D on October 12, 2014, 07:03:04 pm
People that have never ridden a bike goes and buys a 1200cc. They like the lifestyle that the advertising presents. If you have to go get "lessons" to ride your bike you should rethink your new hobby. Experience is the key. Spending hours and hours on dirt bikes in the open veld behind your house when you should be doing homework, dodging traffic on your 50cc visiting your girlfriend, then graduating to a 125cc, and then maybe a 500cc and then you spoil yourself with a 1000cc.
But nowadays people walk in to a dealership, drop R200,000 on a big GSA and then go to "school" so somebody can show them how to pick up the beast when it falls over!!  You need to crawl before you can run. If you are scared of your bike you should sell it.

Very true, but an advanced riding course makes the experienced rider even better. I started on the 50cc and went through the ranks , as per your post, but the BMW advanced couse at Zwaartkops made me even a better rider. Well worth it !
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: immigrant on October 12, 2014, 07:07:55 pm
People that have never ridden a bike goes and buys a 1200cc. They like the lifestyle that the advertising presents. If you have to go get "lessons" to ride your bike you should rethink your new hobby. Experience is the key. Spending hours and hours on dirt bikes in the open veld behind your house when you should be doing homework, dodging traffic on your 50cc visiting your girlfriend, then graduating to a 125cc, and then maybe a 500cc and then you spoil yourself with a 1000cc.
But nowadays people walk in to a dealership, drop R200,000 on a big GSA and then go to "school" so somebody can show them how to pick up the beast when it falls over!!  You need to crawl before you can run. If you are scared of your bike you should sell it.
I agree. It makes a good rider better!!

Very true, but an advanced riding course makes the experienced rider even better. I started on the 50cc and went through the ranks , as per your post, but the BMW advanced couse at Zwaartkops made me even a better rider. Well worth it !
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Kneeslider on October 12, 2014, 07:37:24 pm
The higher the speed the more critical your reaction time becomes, since you are covering a lot of metres per second.

It is important to practice your braking from a higher speed also, since I have noticed that some are scared to brake hard when at a higher speed, and would try and scrub off
a considerate amount of speed before really starting to brake. This is of course fatal, or could be.

I rode with GJ and Buff on Saturday, and while GJ was training on his roadbook, I was behind Buff practising braking late into gravelly corners. Tricky, but this is where
most lose it, overrunning corners.

Agree... but as I read the post it was aimed at the riders less skilled and experienced...

It is important to work on one's skill level or keep within your riding abilities / limitations.

My experience is that it is the "unforeseen" that cause havoc - and adding speed to it - cause carnage...

Not so, my post was aimed at everyone, irrespective of skill level, the focus of the post is not about whether we have the skills or not, but how automation is robbing us of those skills.
In most cases I would wager that the majority of the members here had those skills many moons ago, but have lost them and are not as sharp as they may have been before riding bikes with rider aids.

What Dan says is absolutely correct, it is pointless simulating conditions you very seldom find yourself in, braking from 60km/h is a wasted exersize and proves nothing, who much of your time in the saddle do you spend at 60km/h, very little, percentage wise.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: StuartC on October 12, 2014, 07:48:45 pm
The higher the speed the more critical your reaction time becomes, since you are covering a lot of metres per second.

It is important to practice your braking from a higher speed also, since I have noticed that some are scared to brake hard when at a higher speed, and would try and scrub off
a considerate amount of speed before really starting to brake. This is of course fatal, or could be.

I rode with GJ and Buff on Saturday, and while GJ was training on his roadbook, I was behind Buff practising braking late into gravelly corners. Tricky, but this is where
most lose it, overrunning corners.

Agree... but as I read the post it was aimed at the riders less skilled and experienced...

It is important to work on one's skill level or keep within your riding abilities / limitations.

My experience is that it is the "unforeseen" that cause havoc - and adding speed to it - cause carnage...

Not so, my post was aimed at everyone, irrespective of skill level, the focus of the post is not about whether we have the skills or not, but how automation is robbing us of those skills.
In most cases I would wager that the majority of the members here had those skills many moons ago, but have lost them and are not as sharp as they may have been before riding bikes with rider aids.

What Dan says is absolutely correct, it is pointless simulating conditions you very seldom find yourself in, braking from 60km/h is a wasted exersize and proves nothing, who much of your time in the saddle do you spend at 60km/h, very little, percentage wise.
Having 3 "cheque book terrorists" at home I can't afford a bike with aids,, as for going over 60-80 kph,, not that often in all reality
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: immigrant on October 12, 2014, 08:03:19 pm
But if automation makes the inexperienced guy stop in the same distance that it took an experienced rider 10 times to perfect I say thank god for automation. If automation makes us safer riders then good. Stopping without ABS is a non issue if I ride a bike with it on ( except when it breaks down of course). If i do not need a skill why would i need to perfect it. I still think people  have more  money than talent
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Kneeslider on October 12, 2014, 08:18:35 pm
Agreed, anything that aids in making it safer is good, my point is that we rely too much on the automation, it robs us of our judgement and decision making skills, skills that the new rider will never learn in all probability.
My point is, riding a motorcycle is 10% physical ability and 90% headspace (atttude/skills)
Anyone can shove a  motorcycle down the track, even seven year olds on their PeeWee's do it, it is the attitude/skills we are lacking.
More so now than before.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: immigrant on October 12, 2014, 08:32:10 pm
Agreed, anything that aids in making it safer is good, my point is that we rely too much on the automation, it robs us of our judgement and decision making skills, skills that the new rider will never learn in all probability.
My point is, riding a motorcycle is 10% physical ability and 90% headspace (atttude/skills)
Anyone can shove a  motorcycle down the track, even seven year olds on their PeeWee's do it, it is the attitude/skills we are lacking.
More so now than before.
I agree 100% with you
Title: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Marc D on October 12, 2014, 08:32:29 pm
From my experience i know that when riding a bike without ABS, as an example, you  need to do a bit more thinking when applying brakes in an emergency situation. Ie. To prevent a lockup.

On one equipped with ABS all you need to do is pull the front brake with full force and stand on the rear brake. The bike does the rest.

The thing is getting your mindset right depending on which bike you mount.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: badseed on October 12, 2014, 09:12:32 pm
A good exercise is to calculate stopping distances from different speeds on various surfaces. As the speed increases they get exponentially further. Even more scary is how far you travel at say 200km/h before you actually activate the brakes. Throw in inexperience and you'll discover it can be a huge distance before you start braking and then add the actual stopping distance .
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: badseed on October 12, 2014, 09:26:24 pm
My guess is that on a big dual bike at 150kp/h your reaction distance would be about 100meters and stopping distance about 250meters on dirt. Pace out 250meters and it's some distance.

Now consider seeing a road wash away or a truck in the road and how far away you need to be to avoid it. And novices think they can handle a big bike. Misguided .
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Bensien on October 13, 2014, 09:40:08 am
It is not enough to just practice braking and avoidance manoeuvres until you get them right. You have to practice them until they become reflex. In a real emergency, you donít have time to run through a list of options and then once you decide on an action, mentally rehearse it first, like you do when practicing. You have to do the right thing right away en execute it correctly too. And you have to keep practicing. I have not pushed my limits for almost two and a half years and I find that I have lost the ability to instantly react. 
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: dookie on October 13, 2014, 09:42:08 am
It is not enough to just practice braking and avoidance manoeuvres until you get them right. You have to practice them until they become reflex. In a real emergency, you donít have time to run through a list of options and then once you decide on an action, mentally rehearse it first, like you do when practicing. You have to do the right thing right away en execute it correctly too. And you have to keep practicing. I have not pushed my limits for almost two and a half years and I find that I have lost the ability to instantly react. 
I take it your avatar photo is way more than 2 years old then?
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Bensien on October 13, 2014, 09:58:28 am
Ja, ek het niks nuut nie. Sal maar moet begin recycle
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: K-9 on October 13, 2014, 10:25:04 am
QUOTE ďI put forward an argument that riders were loosing the skills that should be ingrained in us as second nature .....In the interest of safety and learning,,, I would like a few volunteers to do a simple braking test and post up the results, for us to debate."


We all know the results of your test before you do it.  A good to average rider will 9 times out of ten stop shorter without ABS than with ABS, on or off the tar. 

Itís easy a few runs will prove it.  BUT......  thatís a few runs were the target is to brake as quickly as possible; the first few you will mess-up until you get it right.  But you have 10 chances to get it right.

NOW answer this question how many practice runs do you get in an emergency, when say A TRACOR has done a u-turn directly in front of you.

What is ABS for:- Anti-lock braking system (ABS) is an automobile safety system that allows the wheels on a motor vehicle to maintain tractive contact with the road surface according to driver inputs while braking, preventing the wheels from locking up (ceasing rotation) and avoiding uncontrolled skidding, while keeping full control of the vehicle.

We also all know that. 

As far as I am concerned ABS is for the inexperienced rider/driver that grabs a fist full of brakes in a panic mode or for the experienced rider:-  when you have been is the saddle for hours and hours, distracted or for that unexpected diesel patch or sand on the corner, for when I am not 110% focused on stopping  (remember for the test, you will be 110% wide awake and ready and 10 chances).

Thatís when you need ABS, when you are not ready to stop suddenly, when all the conditions are against you and you need all the concentration just to keep the bike up right to give the rubber a chance to stop you.

Bikes 700 and below not to critical, but for the bigger heavier bikes ABS will make a big difference in an expected emergency

A experienced friend of mine was killed on a superbike, (he rode into the side of a massive yellow truck) , he believed ABS was for ďgirls and inexperienced ridersĒ, he ALWAYS switched ABS and traction control  off, his skid marks were measured than 120 meters - dead straight, the experts believed the speed he was going Ė if he had ABS on, he could of turned out of danger and not skid uncontrolled straight to his death.

ABS is here to stay and ALL bikes will have them soon.  It will never go away.
 
Shit happens to the best of us, it is a known fact you canít be focused all the time and that is when ABS will save you.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Omninorm on October 13, 2014, 10:34:05 am
ABS will not make you stop faster than non ABS. Traction being equal and brake force being equal...up to the exact moment before lockup both will stop in equal distance.  ABS is there to help you from locking up the wheels, on a bike, locking up the front wheel in the wet means you are going down.

At least once ABS saved me from locking up a front and avoiding an accident. There was no way or time for you to "feel for traction and modulate the brakes". Car swerved in front of me and I was carrying a pillion. I hit front and rear brakes hard in an instant. The whole thing was over in 2 seconds. I felt the ABS kicking in and i could swerve around. had I not had ABS i would have a.) Hit the car b.) dropped the front.  no doubt in my mind about that.

Whether experienced or inexperienced, sometimes you are just going too fast for the situation.

http://youtu.be/y965HcoUULQ (http://youtu.be/y965HcoUULQ)


Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: volroom on October 13, 2014, 11:08:05 am
agree with everything that's been said. The idea of your stopping distance increasing exponentially is true http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/crstp.html (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/crstp.html) (coefficient of friction is anything between 0 and 1 - more friction for a specific object on a specific surface if the coefficient increases towards 1), that's because energy due to motion quadruples if you double the speed - and your brakes are limited to the amount of energy it can dissipate per second - it can't dissipate 4 times the energy in the same amount of time when you double your speed.

bottom line is that speed can often be a 'killer'. On gravel and in rain, you stopping distance will be greater because coefficient of friction is smaller - on gravel it's less than on wet tar...makes you think http://hpwizard.com/tire-friction-coefficient.html (http://hpwizard.com/tire-friction-coefficient.html)

I think it's definitely worth while to practice emergency stops. I know 'think bike' members have had such opportunity in the past, why can we get together somewhere safe, with some guys that do courses that involved emergency stops, and practice together - ABS on and off. Can we do this? I'd be in

I think ABS on, in general, is better than off (on tar - if yo have ABS that works really well on gravel, than it applies on gravel as well). Newer ABS is better than older, I think.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: volroom on October 13, 2014, 11:45:21 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeo9vC4OgJA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeo9vC4OgJA)

can't believe some of these crashes...
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: K-9 on October 13, 2014, 01:01:29 pm
The higher the speed the more critical your reaction time becomes, since you are covering a lot of metres per second.

It is important to practice your braking from a higher speed also, since I have noticed that some are scared to brake hard when at a higher speed, and would try and scrub off
a considerate amount of speed before really starting to brake. This is of course fatal, or could be.

I rode with GJ and Buff on Saturday, and while GJ was training on his roadbook, I was behind Buff practising braking late into gravelly corners. Tricky, but this is where
most lose it, overrunning corners.

2StrokeDan for a change I agree with what you said.  100% right.

I did a high speed car track course a few years back.  Reaction time at speed, it is an amazing the distance one covers before one even touches the brake AND on the course you are expecting the signal to stop, so reaction time is shorter!!.  I was shocked at the distance it takes to stop at 180.

Braking at high speed.  You see it all the time on the off road courses; for most riders it takes a few attempts before they start braking aggressively at speed.  It is one thing we all need to practice frequently, (new tyre time is a good time to play), but we need to do it every time we get out there. 
Only then will get get it right in a real emergency and save our lives.  As they say the more I practice the luckier I get.

Itís crazy......  We are happy to ride at these high speeds - but too scared to brake at these speeds, makes one think!!!
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on October 13, 2014, 01:08:57 pm
Sod off  8)

 :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Odd Dog on October 13, 2014, 01:26:07 pm
You might ride like a tit,, I'm My son is a fekking genius on a bike!!

There fixed Stu. ;)
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: BikerJan on October 13, 2014, 04:03:09 pm
From my experience i know that when riding a bike without ABS, as an example, you  need to do a bit more thinking when applying brakes in an emergency situation. Ie. To prevent a lockup.

On one equipped with ABS all you need to do is pull the front brake with full force and stand on the rear brake. The bike does the rest.

The thing is getting your mindset right depending on which bike you mount.

Mark, I do not agree with you. Although I am in big trouble as it seems that I will never be able to ride a bike, as I only started riding a few years ago, and not since I were an infant, according to the few courses I attended (on road as well as off road), you still need to apply the same principles when braking, whether the bike has ABS or not. You need to transfer as much weight as possible to the front tire during the braking exercise to prevent the front tyre from locking up or the ABS from kicking in. IF you merely stomp the back brake, and grabs the front brake, ABS will kick in much quicker, than when the front brake pressure is increased, allowing the weight to transfer to the front wheel, therefore your stopping distance will be much further.
Title: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Marc D on October 13, 2014, 07:27:10 pm
Jan i think this should be looked at subjectively. As i mentioned in my post i am stating my opinion from personal experience. My thinking about braking, for example, may differ from yours.

I once was behind a car which was involved in a head-on collision in front of me. I was on the GS and my reaction was to just SLAM on both brakes to avoid hitting the accident in front of me. I was confident the bike would do the rest. On the BMW Advanced Riding Course if your bike had ABS we had to practice emergency braking with it on, as would be the case under normal riding conditions. It worked and i stopped within meters of the accident.

Had i been on my Triumph without ABS i would consciously have applied both brakes but while ensuring no lock-up. I know this sounds all too good to be true but thats what goes on in my mind when i ride the Triumph. I do trackdays with it and am able to regulate a lock-up. I think differently when braking than when on the BM.

 I'm sure not all riders can do this and also know that there are riders better at this than me. Each rider is different and may react differently irrespective of the courses we do. Off road you need to be even more conscious of a lock-up, especially on the front. Alternatively you may wish the rear to lock-up around a bend and so on.
Title: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Marc D on October 13, 2014, 07:33:15 pm
Jan and to add to my post above , that's what the ABS is there to do for you and if it kicks in so what. You are probably comparing the braking distance on a bike with it switched on and then  off as per the first post.

And as kneeslider's post ,with practice you may be able to outstop yourselve with the ABS off.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: dieseldawie on October 13, 2014, 08:20:25 pm
I ride a KLR so what is ABS?
As a matter of fact what are good brakes as well?
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: DirtyHarry on October 13, 2014, 08:31:02 pm
Sorry, can't do the ABS test either.
I have never owned a bike with ABS ;D
Therefore I was hitting the deck quite often until I started to understand how to use my brakes properly.
Title: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Marc D on October 13, 2014, 08:40:23 pm
Well you're  better riders than someone relying on the ABS to regulate the brake force being applied.
Title: Re:
Post by: Franky3 on October 13, 2014, 08:42:38 pm
This tread is intereating for me as a new rider. Well as soon as I start riding I will be new. I will not be doing any test yet though. My skill level is at 0 at the moment. Ok maybe 0,1 after reading intereating stuff like this and hearing opinions.
Title: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Marc D on October 13, 2014, 08:47:36 pm
If you want to become a good rider gain as much experience as possible, without electronic aids. That stuff is there for the old toppies who have forgotten all their experience 😃
Title: Re:
Post by: immigrant on October 14, 2014, 07:32:53 am
This tread is intereating for me as a new rider. Well as soon as I start riding I will be new. I will not be doing any test yet though. My skill level is at 0 at the moment. Ok maybe 0,1 after reading intereating stuff like this and hearing opinions.
What bike were you looking at buying?
Title: Re: Re: You think you ride tit? You ride shit!
Post by: Franky3 on October 14, 2014, 09:40:03 am
Sorry I dont think this is the tread to discuss this. See my low budget DS bike add in the smalls commercial tread. Here are people discussing important things.8)