Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => To Buy or Not To Buy => Topic started by: Royman on December 21, 2014, 10:51:31 pm

Title: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Royman on December 21, 2014, 10:51:31 pm
Hi fellow dogs,

I am new to the bike thing. When I just got my licence I rode with my dad's BMW 650 Dakar a few times in town. 8 years later I decided to do a rental bike trip in the Cape and rented a BMW 800GS ( greatest holiday ever ). Now I am looking towards buying my own and starting with heavy biking trips on dirt roads and places people with cars only dream about.

The question is. Should I save for a normal 1200gs or bite abit more and go for the Adventure? Furthermore, should I go used or new?

Please advise cause I think this group would know best.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on December 21, 2014, 11:06:08 pm
Two questions first: How big and tall are you and how much money have you got?

If big and tall get the GSA.

If rich buy new. ;)
Title: Re:
Post by: Royman on December 21, 2014, 11:09:06 pm
I am relative big. 113kgs and 190cm tall. I am planning to save up so lets ask this then, is the Adventure really the extra buck worth it? Why not the 1200 with extras?
Title: Re:
Post by: Royman on December 21, 2014, 11:09:23 pm
Thanks for the reply...
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on December 21, 2014, 11:13:43 pm
Your size and weight go GSA. The GSA just carries weight better and packs better.
A low mileage 2010-2013 would do the trick.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on December 21, 2014, 11:20:28 pm
In my opinion the extras on GSA makes it the better buy. Adding same extras to a GS will cost you a bit more. Also benefit of the extra fuel range, better suspension and at 1,90 m the taller GSA will suit you. It's an awesome bike.

BUT..........

If you are fairly new to biking, try out a few bikes and brands before you fork out R250k. ........my 2c
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: King Louis on December 22, 2014, 09:24:38 am
Doesn't have to be new. There is a pretty good one for sale right how. Low mileage.... :biggrin:

Seriously, peeps are taken back when they see this. Little do they know. This one rides like the first day but if you compare the price difference to the new LC one, oh boy. Also depends, how much you intend to do. If I do not find a buyer, I will put on another 50,000 and won't even worry about it for a second. In good hick, always serviced by BMW and very few problems.
Title: Re:
Post by: Royman on December 22, 2014, 09:47:23 am
@Noneking, thanks. The bit of research I did about what I want to do and where I want to travel to let me to decide on the BMW, other brands have also not attracted my attention, I think its because my first bike I rode was a BMW and it just sticked.

@ChrisL thanks for the feedback guys.

@KingLouis, what is the specs of your bike?
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Hinksding on December 22, 2014, 09:49:30 am
Please allow me a bit of advertising.  I going to be a bit more blatant than KL.

My Gs is for sale. From my perspective the only benefit is the suspension and the larger fuel tank. My range on a tank was 290 km. Its rare that towns are further apart from each other.  My bike's got a 21" front wheel,  which make a huge difference, especially in sand, as well as a power Commander and Oem pannier racks, as well as loads of other extras.

See for yourself:
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=164960.msg3109111#msg3109111 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=164960.msg3109111#msg3109111)
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: ClimbingTurtle on December 22, 2014, 09:51:23 am
The new LC Adventure is the answer - if you can wait & save.....

My "first" big DS bike was a GSA 2010 model, after much research.

The advantages over the GS is the taller suspension, crash bars, fuel range, screen and seating position. My mate bought a standard GS and regrets not waiting a little longer and getting the Adventure version - 500km on a tank....  :biggrin:

But see if you can get the LC - it's even better than my bike!!

Good Luck!!

 :thumleft:  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: TheBear on December 22, 2014, 10:01:37 am
I am 188cm and about 125kg. Previous 09 as well as current 14 are normal GS.  I prefer the GS over the GSA for my purposes.  I have no good reason why.  I just do.   I reckon ride both and then decide.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: subie on December 22, 2014, 10:14:42 am
Any 1200 for a first bike (depending what your adventure is) to me, is just crazy.  :eek7:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: ClimbingTurtle on December 22, 2014, 10:28:46 am
Any 1200 for a first bike (depending what your adventure is) to me, is just crazy.  :eek7:

True enough....

Given an ideal world, I should never have looked at a GSA immediately - a 660Z would have been a better "in-between" bike, however getting the GSA was a one-off deal, trading after a year wasn't an option for me.

Having said that, it took the best part of a year to get really comfortable with the Lump, to understand it and ride it properly.....

But then maybe I am just a slow learner...!  :biggrin:
Title: Re:
Post by: King Louis on December 22, 2014, 10:40:07 am
@Noneking, thanks. The bit of research I did about what I want to do and where I want to travel to let me to decide on the BMW, other brands have also not attracted my attention, I think its because my first bike I rode was a BMW and it just sticked.

@ChrisL thanks for the feedback guys.

@KingLouis, what is the specs of your bike?
Sorry for whatever reason cant copy/paste the link from my tablet. It s in the trade buy smalls section for sale. 2012 model 105,000 km full specs plus panners/top box. I'm 1,90 / 95 kgs and have done plenty two up fully packed with the wife. Can't beat the adventure for that. Let meknow.
Title: Re:
Post by: Royman on December 22, 2014, 11:05:20 am
@KingLouis I am going to look a bit more. You did some driving in the last 2 years, where did you go?
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on December 22, 2014, 12:05:51 pm
My big gripe with the GS is that the 300km per tank that it gives is enough for between most towns in SA but then you have to ride
there in a strait line and no zigzagging in between.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Jondu on December 22, 2014, 12:36:07 pm
No. 1 Buy a GS and regret it till you bought a GSA specially two-Up.
No. 2 Be Patience or buy cheep to resell if it is the wrong choice.

My 2c

Title: Re:
Post by: King Louis on December 22, 2014, 02:04:29 pm
@KingLouis I am going to look a bit more. You did some driving in the last 2 years, where did you go?

Mainly commuting plus trips to Mpumalanga, Durban, Cape Town every now and then some dirt, am easy on the throttle, average consumption around 5.5l/100 kays. Gives you a safe range of 550 kays plus Vat.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Karoo Rider on December 22, 2014, 02:10:17 pm
Bought a GSA as my first D/S bike, never had regrets in the last 2 years.  Love the suspension and 500+ km's per tank, especially in the Karoo and Namibia.  And yes it's heavy, but only for the once in a while that you've got to pick it up! ;D
Title: Re:
Post by: luv2ride on December 22, 2014, 02:21:52 pm
@Noneking, thanks. The bit of research I did about what I want to do and where I want to travel to let me to decide on the BMW, other brands have also not attracted my attention, I think its because my first bike I rode was a BMW and it just sticked.

@ChrisL thanks for the feedback guys.

@KingLouis, what is the specs of your bike?
Sorry for whatever reason cant copy/paste the link from my tablet. It s in the trade buy smalls section for sale. 2012 model 105,000 km full specs plus panners/top box. I'm 1,90 / 95 kgs and have done plenty two up fully packed with the wife. Can't beat the adventure for that. Let meknow.

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=165067.msg3113760#msg3113760 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=165067.msg3113760#msg3113760)
 :thumleft:
Title: Re:
Post by: King Louis on December 22, 2014, 04:16:30 pm
@Noneking, thanks. The bit of research I did about what I want to do and where I want to travel to let me to decide on the BMW, other brands have also not attracted my attention, I think its because my first bike I rode was a BMW and it just sticked.

@ChrisL thanks for the feedback guys.

@KingLouis, what is the specs of your bike?
Sorry for whatever reason cant copy/paste the link from my tablet. It s in the trade buy smalls section for sale. 2012 model 105,000 km full specs plus panners/top box. I'm 1,90 / 95 kgs and have done plenty two up fully packed with the wife. Can't beat the adventure for that. Let meknow.
Thanks Riaan.... :thumleft:

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=165067.msg3113760#msg3113760 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=165067.msg3113760#msg3113760)
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: BLK on December 22, 2014, 05:18:07 pm
I would not overlook a F800 adv??The best of all worlds
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on December 22, 2014, 06:00:34 pm
I would not overlook a F800 adv??The best of all worlds

In that class I would go for yamaha 660 Tz.
Big BM FAN. 800 GS.....not so much.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on December 22, 2014, 06:13:17 pm
@Noneking, thanks. The bit of research I did about what I want to do and where I want to travel to let me to decide on the BMW, other brands have also not attracted my attention, I think its because my first bike I rode was a BMW and it just sticked.

The LC GSA is an awesome bike. Few small irritations for me personally, but nothing to get upset about.

There a good second hand one for sale in White River http://html5.m.olx.co.za/2014-bmw-r1200-gs-adventure-iid-765278438
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: LuckyStriker on December 22, 2014, 06:22:22 pm
The question is. Should I save for a normal 1200gs or bite abit more and go for the Adventure? Furthermore, should I go used or new?

Having owned both a GS and GSA (both oilheads) I recommend the Adventure version. And if you can get a newer liquid cooled engine, even better.
Title: Re:
Post by: Royman on December 22, 2014, 06:31:58 pm
@Noneking, with regards to the 800 GSA, is it maybe not a bit to heavy for the engin?
Title: Re:
Post by: Hinksding on December 22, 2014, 08:14:00 pm
@Noneking, with regards to the 800 GSA, is it maybe not a bit to heavy for the engin?

I would say no.
Title: Re:
Post by: BLK on December 22, 2014, 08:28:15 pm
@Noneking, with regards to the 800 GSA, is it maybe not a bit to heavy for the engin?
The F800 ADV is a very capable machine.(My opinion only)
(I'm surprised at Nonekings comment)

Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on December 22, 2014, 08:58:20 pm
Just my personal experience...... I've had a 800 adv as a loan bike on 3 occasions. It did not impress me at all. Obviously can't comment on off-road ability at all, but just the general feel of the bike was very uninspiring...... Especially coming from the 1200 GSA. Almost felt like getting on a bmx after years of riding 29" dual sus mtb......
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: nielvn on December 22, 2014, 10:03:20 pm
It all depends what you want to do, ride both gs and GSA on the same day, my first exposure to both and opinion was, short, nippy ride, go gs, longer ride and touring go GSA. I am 1.88m and 106kg, f800 feels like a 650 on steroids to. Again it all depends what the purpose of the bike is.

2012 to 2011, I will not buy them, my suspension broke and I know two more which broke while there were 2010models in the same situation, which experience the swingarm problems, the 2010 has a DOHC engin and the rear swing arm does not break as easily.

I do not want to start a brand debate here, but there are other options and manufacturers to consider as well.

For myself, the GSA does the trick, everyday commute, once to twice a year long trips and some one day trips, finally the odd weekend trip. If I did not tour with the bike I would have considered the ktm 1190r, triumph is too small for myself and Yamaha s10 is a great bike and very durable, but the new price tag is too high.

I will stick to the k51 for a long time to come, inspite of an fd failure, which cost myself dearly recently.
Title: Re:
Post by: Royman on December 23, 2014, 10:11:51 am
My plan is to do touring, and whenever there is a chance to take a dirt road I want to take if without wondering if the bike can hold me.

What I have gathered the 800 is a 650 on steriods and the 1200 then is a 800 with Arnold blood...the 1200 may not be as nippy as the 800 but stil a nippy bike, will the Adv however have trouble on dirt roads? I dont mean your dangerous dirtroad, just nice dirt road with a few climbs...
Title: Re:
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on December 23, 2014, 10:57:59 am
My plan is to do touring, and whenever there is a chance to take a dirt road I want to take if without wondering if the bike can hold me.

What I have gathered the 800 is a 650 on steriods and the 1200 then is a 800 with Arnold blood...the 1200 may not be as nippy as the 800 but stil a nippy bike, will the Adv however have trouble on dirt roads? I dont mean your dangerous dirtroad, just nice dirt road with a few climbs...
[/b]
The GSA will gobble it up. They are more capable that they look.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Garfield on December 23, 2014, 11:01:49 am
It looks like you have made up your mind already, hope you find the right GSA and have lots of fun with it.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: BMWPE on December 23, 2014, 11:15:35 am
I would not overlook a F800 adv??The best of all worlds


must agree  ;D
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: frans1 on December 23, 2014, 11:20:42 am
I was doing a lot of off-road riding before. Bought a GS and was very happy with it! Did 60K on it and then bought a GSA. The longer suspension is a bonus when doing dirt road riding and then you can get 500km on a tank of petrol. Just lekka for the mind not to worrie about where to find find petrol all the time!

Never ever sorry that I bought 1200 from the start. Excellent for dirt road riding.
If you like to do some ruff stuff, buy a plastic bike to do it.

Just my 2c and enjoy the riding, no matter what bike you ride.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: ClimbingTurtle on December 23, 2014, 11:28:54 am
I would not overlook a F800 adv??The best of all worlds


I never understood this bike - the F800GSA weighs 211kg dry - the 2010 R1200GSA weighs 223kg dry.... 12kg lighter? That's all?
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: nielvn on December 23, 2014, 11:34:36 am
Disadvantage of the gs or even more the gsa, once you are use to the bike, any other bike, just feels to "skinny" and the low down torque disappears, you will probably never consider any other bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on December 23, 2014, 12:18:59 pm
Disadvantage of the gs or even more the gsa, once you are use to the bike, any other bike, just feels to "skinny" and the low down torque disappears, you will probably never consider any other bike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
and you see this as a disadvantage? ;)
Title: Re:
Post by: King Louis on December 23, 2014, 01:40:38 pm
My plan is to do touring, and whenever there is a chance to take a dirt road I want to take if without wondering if the bike can hold me.

What I have gathered the 800 is a 650 on steriods and the 1200 then is a 800 with Arnold blood...the 1200 may not be as nippy as the 800 but stil a nippy bike, will the Adv however have trouble on dirt roads? I dont mean your dangerous dirtroad, just nice dirt road with a few climbs...

I am no off road specialist by any means. But with reasonable experience, the adventure is the best one you can usefor a big boy. Have done Normandiens, lundins Nek, Sani Pass, Baviaanskloof (two up, panniers, topbox, camping gear) and am totally happy with the performance.
Title: Re:
Post by: T Rex on December 23, 2014, 03:05:22 pm
My plan is to do touring, and whenever there is a chance to take a dirt road I want to take if without wondering if the bike can hold me.

What I have gathered the 800 is a 650 on steriods and the 1200 then is a 800 with Arnold blood...the 1200 may not be as nippy as the 800 but stil a nippy bike, will the Adv however have trouble on dirt roads? I dont mean your dangerous dirtroad, just nice dirt road with a few climbs...

I have both the GSA and the GS. If I had to keep only one it would be the GSA.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Bernt on December 24, 2014, 08:04:59 am
Due to my size and weight, 73kg and 1.82m the GS is my choice. I like to push it a bit on the dirt, not high speed but more challenging roads chasing the KTM's  :). If I were stronger I would enjoy the longer range even though the GS is more fuel efficient (slightly). The 2010 dohc is a proven machine and if you look carefully you will find an Adv with less than 10 000km for R110-R130K. With the Adv you don't need any extras bar a spare set of rims for the TKC's.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: adv on December 24, 2014, 02:37:21 pm
Go ride the gs1200 gsa 1200 and the 990 adventure.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Hinksding on December 24, 2014, 02:44:37 pm
Here are obviously guys with far more experience than I have and I would like to hear your opinion. I am/was totally happy with my Gs. At some times I found it a bit heavy and big, but on tar it was the best bike for my needs. I easily took on thick think think stretches of sand with great confidence, but at the end of the day it was hard work. Now, is this kind of riding doable on a GSA?

I fitted Gsa pannier racks, so luggage wasn't a pain anymore. I also fitted the Adv screen, but that was a load of crap. I am 1,9 m tall, and it made the fact worse that the wind that came of the screen kept on buffeting in my face ( worse than the Gs screen) nevermind how I adjusted the screen or seat height, and on corrugation it rattled so much that I thought I might brake of any moment.

Id like to hear from the guys who owned both.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on December 24, 2014, 05:09:16 pm
GSA is just more stable because it is heavier. :deal:
Abrie "staaldraad" did the Groenrivier-Hondklipbaai on his GSA. Ja hy het sy tong raakgetrap van moegheid maar almal was maar flou
behalwe natuurlik daai Weskus outjie heel voor op sy 800. :P
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: nielvn on December 24, 2014, 05:35:48 pm
Here are obviously guys with far more experience than I have and I would like to hear your opinion. I am/was totally happy with my Gs. At some times I found it a bit heavy and big, but on tar it was the best bike for my needs. I easily took on thick think think stretches of sand with great confidence, but at the end of the day it was hard work. Now, is this kind of riding doable on a GSA?

I fitted Gsa pannier racks, so luggage wasn't a pain anymore. I also fitted the Adv screen, but that was a load of crap. I am 1,9 m tall, and it made the fact worse that the wind that came of the screen kept on buffeting in my face ( worse than the Gs screen) nevermind how I adjusted the screen or seat height, and on corrugation it rattled so much that I thought I might brake of any moment.

Id like to hear from the guys who owned both.

I am not a very good dirt rider in fact the only reason i ride dirt is to get from point a to point b.

But you are 100% correct, I rode the normal gs for about two years before going to the gsa.

During my dp1 course my first impression was that that the gsa was more difficult to handle on technical slow ridding than the gs, this is marginal, but true. This was the first impression i had.

Why do i ride the gsa currently, one of the main reasons is the comfort and stability on longer rides.

That is why one should first ask what do want from the bike, what us more important?


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Hinksding on December 24, 2014, 07:10:11 pm
Here are obviously guys with far more experience than I have and I would like to hear your opinion. I am/was totally happy with my Gs. At some times I found it a bit heavy and big, but on tar it was the best bike for my needs. I easily took on thick think think stretches of sand with great confidence, but at the end of the day it was hard work. Now, is this kind of riding doable on a GSA?

I fitted Gsa pannier racks, so luggage wasn't a pain anymore. I also fitted the Adv screen, but that was a load of crap. I am 1,9 m tall, and it made the fact worse that the wind that came of the screen kept on buffeting in my face ( worse than the Gs screen) nevermind how I adjusted the screen or seat height, and on corrugation it rattled so much that I thought I might brake of any moment.

Id like to hear from the guys who owned both.

I am not a very good dirt rider in fact the only reason i ride dirt is to get from point a to point b.

But you are 100% correct, I rode the normal gs for about two years before going to the gsa.

During my dp1 course my first impression was that that the gsa was more difficult to handle on technical slow ridding than the gs, this is marginal, but true. This was the first impression i had.

Why do i ride the gsa currently, one of the main reasons is the comfort and stability on longer rides.

That is why one should first ask what do want from the bike, what us more important?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: LuckyStriker on December 26, 2014, 12:16:56 am
Go ride the gs1200 gsa 1200 and the 990 adventure.

Lets not turn this into a KTM vs BMW argument okay?
The guy want's to know which is best between a GS or a GSA

If he asked us to recommend the best bike in the world the truth would be neither German or Austrian but Japanese.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: poenerhoes on December 26, 2014, 03:14:05 pm
Go ride the gs1200 gsa 1200 and the 990 adventure.

Lets not turn this into a KTM vs BMW argument okay?
The guy want's to know which is best between a GS or a GSA

If he asked us to recommend the best bike in the world the truth would be neither German or Austrian but Japanese.

Then I would have to say go for the GSA :deal:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on December 26, 2014, 11:22:45 pm
I have recently purchased GSA LC. 6ft tall, 82kg. Originally, idea was to tour on tar, hence I went for Adventure model which has larger screen and bigger tank. Eventually, I started doing off road as well and I am thinking of replacing It for standard GS. Just like racing, lighter means more performance. Stock GS has lower centre of gravity as well, it feels like a smaller bike although it's  the same frame. Also, for serious off road, sand and mud, you will never want to ride with full tank, so high up. The whole "Adventure" think is smart marketing politics. BMW is happy if you trash their bike and get it fixed (parts) or replaced (sales) often.


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: poenerhoes on December 27, 2014, 01:20:36 pm
I have recently purchased GSA LC. 6ft tall, 82kg. Originally, idea was to tour on tar, hence I went for Adventure model which has larger screen and bigger tank. Eventually, I started doing off road as well and I am thinking of replacing It for standard GS. Just like racing, lighter means more performance. Stock GS has lower centre of gravity as well, it feels like a smaller bike although it's  the same frame. Also, for serious off road, sand and mud, you will never want to ride with full tank, so high up. The whole "Adventure" think is smart marketing politics. BMW is happy if you trash their bike and get it fixed (parts) or replaced (sales) often.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

gooi a few picks of the bike on the small ads section, sure it would sell fast  :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on December 27, 2014, 02:15:24 pm
I have great relationship with a dealer, no need to sell privately. Besides, waiting to see new XF and RS for next year.


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Sandban(g)k on December 27, 2014, 03:19:17 pm
I have recently purchased GSA LC. 6ft tall, 82kg. Originally, idea was to tour on tar, hence I went for Adventure model which has larger screen and bigger tank. Eventually, I started doing off road as well and I am thinking of replacing It for standard GS. Just like racing, lighter means more performance. Stock GS has lower centre of gravity as well, it feels like a smaller bike although it's  the same frame. Also, for serious off road, sand and mud, you will never want to ride with full tank, so high up. The whole "Adventure" think is smart marketing politics. BMW is happy if you trash their bike and get it fixed (parts) or replaced (sales) often.


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On most skills challenges Ive seen or heard of, the winner was always on a GSA and not a GS. Had a 990 and 800, with the 990 being heavier and a higher centre of gravity, but the handling of the KTM was alot better.

So weight and COG doesnt really come into play when offroad. But thats my experience. Ive seen guys doing some really wicked things on Adventures, and would go for the GSA.

I know parts are quite expensive, but these bikes really crash well.

Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on December 27, 2014, 03:33:16 pm
Are you proposing that heavier and taller bikes handle better ?


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Sandban(g)k on December 27, 2014, 04:04:09 pm
Are you proposing that heavier and taller bikes handle better ?


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Nope, just proposing that there might be more than weight to it. And COG. Sure it should make a difference, but the difference might be beyond my own skills and abilities.

For example, the 12kg between a 800 and 1200 is almost nothing, till you get on both. And although the COG of the 1200 is way lower than the 800, I could do a slow race a bit slower on the 800, but even slower on a 990, which is heavier and have a higher COG.

I personally would rather do technical routes on the GSA than the 1200, just for the better suspension (and travel). And Im 1.76 and 65kgs.
I currently own a 800Adventure, and the difference in terms of offroad handling to the normal 800 is negligible. But the extras and longer range makes sense for my needs.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on December 27, 2014, 04:13:27 pm
Do you think slow race speed will make you win Dakar ?
I can blabber for hours about differences bit consider why enduro is ridden on 250,350 cc machines, just over 100kg in weight and not on 1200, well over 200kg. You can change direction faster, you dig in less in the sand or mud, your weight have much bigger influence on steering with the pegs etc etc. Other than improved clearance, GSA has nothing on GS off road. Absolutely nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Sandban(g)k on December 27, 2014, 04:28:04 pm
Do you think slow race speed will make you win Dakar ?
I can blabber for hours about differences bit consider why enduro is ridden on 250,350 cc machines, just over 100kg in weight and not on 1200, well over 200kg. You can change direction faster, you dig in less in the sand or mud, your weight have much bigger influence on steering with the pegs etc etc. Other than improved clearance, GSA has nothing on GS off road. Absolutely nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada.


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Mirage, you okay there? He is not going to race the Dakar. And he is not looking for the lightest bike.

I merely stated that everyone jumps onto the weight and COG wagon, but in the world of us noobs, neither makes that much a difference. We domt do enduros, Dakars or the Roof, so a bike 10-15kg heavier will not keep us from doing what we do with our bikes - enjoying nature and making memories.

I totally understand the science behind weight and COG (however when doing technical routes I usually stand up, resulting in a higher COG), but for me personally at this level, it doesnt make a significant difference. Refer to my points above.

The slow race for me is just a fast indication of how controlable a bike would be under technical routes. Because the slower Im able to go, the better is my handling of an obstacle.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on December 27, 2014, 04:35:57 pm
I'm fine mate, absolutely.
You solve a lot of problems in riding off road by giving it some gas, opening up the throttle, letting gyro effect sort you out, not by closing down and crawling at snail pace.
Heck, I ride LC GSA, why would I trash my own bike, I'm just stating the obvious. And first things first, weight is the most obvious thing and weigh is everything. Sometimes, it can be the difference between making memories and sitting in the gravel with broken bones and trashed bike.
My advise, start with lighter bike and work your way up instead of going for the biggest and heaviest of the lot.


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Sandban(g)k on December 27, 2014, 04:43:50 pm
Lets agree to diagree then  :biggrin:

Most of the incidents I saw was when the rider (mostly myself  :biggrin: ) gave it gas and not really doing it the right way.

Weight is important, but skills are importanter  ;)  lots of guys on GSA would make shame of me on a 450.

Id say, from personal experience, go for the bike you want, but then do some training to make sure you know your own and the bikes limits and abilities  :thumleft:

I started like that, and even Im no Coma, Im sure my instructors and guys riding with me can say that I am quite capable of handling my bike, not because Im good, but because I know where I can take a chance and where I should stay away  :deal:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on December 27, 2014, 04:51:23 pm
I agree on all points :-)
Truth is, bikes we choose with our hearts, so if you like it, you should go for it.
Indeed, I got carried away about technical stuff, which doesn't really matter at times.
I'm looking for something smaller so I can play more in the dirt, it feels like abuse to do rocks and stones on GSA and put dents and scratches on it.


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Fudmucker on December 27, 2014, 11:41:48 pm
I ride a 1200GS.
My legs are too short to safely handle the GSA when maneuvering it while sitting on it.
Here's the test:

Set the suspension to what you will be riding most - e.g. two up no luggage.
Sit on the bike and put your feet on the ground.
If you can have the balls of BOTH feet on the ground, then you are tall enough.
With my legs, I only get one flat foot or two tiptoes.
I can't push forward on the GSA while sitting  on it.

I bought the gs and had the GSA screen fitted new on purchase.
It keeps the wind off my face very nicely, thank you!
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on January 13, 2015, 09:11:06 pm
Just traded 2014 GSA LC for 2015 GS. Delivery on Thursday.
Bigger not always better, for me anyway.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: NeelsK on January 14, 2015, 06:49:38 am
In my opinion, the question that has to be asked:  What will you use the bike for most?

If you will commute on it regularly, look at the GS.

If it will be used more for touring and fun, still look at the GS, but also look at the GSA.

I've owned both, but since moving back to SA, I commuted on the GS on a daily basis for 2 years.  the GS just makes it easier in traffic, but that's just my opinion.  Lately though, I commute much more on my other bike, which makes it even easier ;)

TL;DR;

Decide what your main application is going to be and make your decision based on that.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: BLK on January 14, 2015, 07:24:07 am
Just traded 2014 GSA LC for 2015 GS. Delivery on Thursday.
Bigger not always better, for me anyway.
Look forward to your findings?
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on January 14, 2015, 07:55:53 am
The GS is noticeably nippier than GSA, but as a tourer, I'll take the GSA every day of the week.  The bulk of the GSA is no problem once the wheels start rolling.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on January 14, 2015, 10:32:24 am
I rode GS around the corner, just to compare the two. Felt like a sports bike compared to GSA. I like performance, speed, handling. 20Kg+ difference really shows. I lie to ride as often as I can, not just to tour or trash it in the dirt. Lower centre of gravity and less weight combined with slightly shorter wheelbase really did it for me. I think even off road, for my riding ability, stock GS would work better as it's lighter and I have better control of it. Screen will be replaced with Adventure screen as well as footpegs. Ordered shift assist as well. Might change tyres earlier, don't like Anakee 3.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: m0lt3n on January 14, 2015, 12:29:47 pm
I have a GS and have done some touring in SA. I had to upgrade a lot of stuff to whats on the GSA and now whenever I have issues its mostly these aftermarket changes I made. So I would say if you intend to do gravel and touring, go GSA. I love the nippyness of my bike though (compared to GSA) so would probably have chosen again if given the chance.

Stuff to upgrade is the screen and the luggage carrying. I have had rattles and stuff coming loose or even bending on my non OEM fitments so if you do not want to work on your bike much, go GSA.

If you are going to dream about touring and never do while you commute, go for the GS.

And if you can afford it, go LC, its awesome. but for a first bike in my opinion I would say buy a secondhand kitted GS, and upgrade in a year's time to LC GSA
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on January 14, 2015, 09:59:33 pm
I dont understand why would you have issues with parts fitted from GSA on standard GS ?
Screen, pegs, luggage - what can go wrong there ?

I had GS top box fitted to GSA, now moving it from GSA back to new GS.
Regarding touring, other than the range, what are the advantages of GSA ?
I have ridden to CT and back on my gf's F800ST, two up, with top box and panniers and bike never missed a beat.
We did Kalahari (Uppington to Paternoster) just after Xmas, in 45C heat...other then me almost collapsing from heat, everything was fine.
Title: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on January 14, 2015, 10:21:11 pm
I dont understand why would you have issues with parts fitted from GSA on standard GS ?

Regarding touring, other than the range, what are the advantages of GSA ?
I have ridden to CT and back on my gf's F800ST, two up, with top box and panniers and bike never missed a beat.
We did Kalahari (Uppington to Paternoster) just after Xmas, in 45C heat...other then me almost collapsing from heat, everything was fine.

I think he is talking about aftermarket components, not OEM......


Advantages in my humble opinion:
Larger screen & winglets gives better wind protection
slightly higher (which I like)
more plug & play luggage options, no extra brackets needed(hard, aftermarket).
The GSA looks much better than GS
Better suspension
Standard aux lights
Standard crashbars upper and lower

.....and the extra range.....

If you had to "improve" all of these on a GS, it would end up costing more than GSA
Title: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on January 14, 2015, 10:25:18 pm
.......and surely you would have been much more comfortable on a GSA ON YOUR 3000km trip. How can you even compare a F800ST to a 1200 GSA touring 3000km?
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: m0lt3n on January 15, 2015, 06:28:56 am
I dont understand why would you have issues with parts fitted from GSA on standard GS ?

Regarding touring, other than the range, what are the advantages of GSA ?
I have ridden to CT and back on my gf's F800ST, two up, with top box and panniers and bike never missed a beat.
We did Kalahari (Uppington to Paternoster) just after Xmas, in 45C heat...other then me almost collapsing from heat, everything was fine.

I think he is talking about aftermarket components, not OEM......


Advantages in my humble opinion:
Larger screen & winglets gives better wind protection
slightly higher (which I like)
more plug & play luggage options, no extra brackets needed(hard, aftermarket).
The GSA looks much better than GS
Better suspension
Standard aux lights
Standard crashbars upper and lower

.....and the extra range.....

If you had to "improve" all of these on a GS, it would end up costing more than GSA

Its a miss match of OEM and aftermarket and boer-maak-n-plan add ons. Loads of stuff bought second hand on the forum.

Example, the GS support for topbox is plastic. Replace Vario with Trax and suddenly its more forward and there isnt enough space for the pillion. new holes in support plate scores you 3cm maybe, not enough. So buy bracket on forum (not GSA OEM, GSA ones are expensive and rare second hand) and now the Trax sits perfect....first Lesotho trip heavily loaded and the bracket beds, I look like a loaded Hilux out of the townships!

Just an example, it becomes a learning curve, even with the best of intentions.

The other thing I had issues with were the GSA windscreen, coming loose, rattling or loosing screws. And I have used rather a lot of Loctite on my bike to date. At least I also learned a lot in the process.

Just saying, I am not the most technically minded person so I may be a stupid example, but you can have your own unique issues :)

GS looks better to me though, especially if silver alluminum fairings are made black. GSA looks like a stokkie-lekker
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on January 15, 2015, 11:38:45 pm
Got GS today,  very happy - for me, it was the right move.


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Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Noneking on January 16, 2015, 07:04:49 am
Congratulations!
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: T Rex on January 16, 2015, 07:35:46 am
Got GS today,  very happy - for me, it was the right move.


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Geluk man , geniet hom.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on January 17, 2015, 08:28:00 pm
Did 250km today, running her in. Going to get GSA screen, it does make a difference.
Otherwise, on the road, GS feels like a sports bike...notably stiffer suspension on the same settings as GSA, probably because bike is lighter and has less suspension travel. Not that it makes that much difference but the range is also good...I used to get 450km on GSA tank (granted, going a bit faster than today), I still have over 120km range after doing 250km on GS. So, in reality difference is only around 100km, which is not bad at all.
Still not sure about footpegs, although ones on GSA are wider and certainly better off road, GS's have rubber inserts so there is no vibration whatsoever.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: Bernt on January 25, 2015, 10:24:21 am
Well done, best choice. I have a 2010 GS and for me I prefer the smaller screen for off-road and the wide pegs are a must. The rubber when wet slips. I bent my brake lever up for better reach when standing and I carry a small spanner to adjust the brake lever for the dirt. One thing nobody mentioned is that the GS now has the bigger flywheel same as the adv for better stability off-road/sand.
Title: Re: BMW 1200GS or 1200GS Adv for a first bike
Post by: mirage on January 26, 2015, 07:05:54 pm
This weekend...(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/26/e4a68aa73a03013fd14077d0df9bf357.jpg)


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