Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: XRRX on April 10, 2015, 09:22:11 am

Title: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: XRRX on April 10, 2015, 09:22:11 am
On my way back to George yesterday on the N2 - 15km before Albertinia, I came upon this "poor" guy - returning from Cape Town to Sedgefield. He just bought this bike brand new from Donford - rode about 300kms in and around Cape Town and was on his way home yesterday afternoon. Bike just over 600km.  :'(
As I've told him - it was not his time and/or he surely can handle a sliding/snaking bike!!!  :eek7: :eek7:
Only help I could provide was charging his flat cellphone from my bakkie and help loading the bike when the AA finally arrived...
(Some of the "string" you see around the tyre is actually wiring from the bike's electronics... Even the pillion seat is totally loose, and many parts are apparently missing from underneath...  :eek7:)

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 10, 2015, 09:23:21 am
 :(
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Hanno @ Mad Macs on April 10, 2015, 09:25:26 am
 :eek7: :eek7: :eek7:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Snafu on April 10, 2015, 09:26:34 am
Eina!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Coala on April 10, 2015, 09:34:04 am
respect - everyone who ever had a rapid loss of pressure in the rear tyre knows that jelly does not even begin to describe what happens to the rear of a bike.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Jacobsroodt on April 10, 2015, 09:38:23 am
One question: how do you get a tyre to look like this?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: westfrogger on April 10, 2015, 09:44:22 am
Under-inflated tyre?

Good for him to have stayed upright. Member here?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Herklaas on April 10, 2015, 09:44:58 am
 :sip: Joh, dit gaan die dealer baie kos om reg te maak.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 10, 2015, 09:51:26 am
Bliksim!

Daai is BAIE meer skade as wat mens dink.

Ek sal druk vir n nuwe bike.

BMW kan die een maar fix en dan in hulle Demo fleet insit rerig.

Hy kon iewers oor iets gery het wat die tyre n lelike sny gegee het, wat dan na nog n paar km kon gemaak het dat die loop so afklim. Daai lyk nes n retread tyre wat van n trok afgeklim het. Of die tyre was n booboo van dag een af.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Snafu on April 10, 2015, 09:51:50 am
Under-inflated tyre?

Good for him to have stayed upright. Member here?

Dont think so. His dash would have looked like a christmas tree if the pressure was low. Think this was a blow out
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: luv2ride on April 10, 2015, 09:56:41 am
 :o :o
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Mooch on April 10, 2015, 10:01:23 am
Eish...  :eek7:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Mr Zog on April 10, 2015, 10:01:44 am
Good Grief  :eek7:  :eek7:  :eek7:

I support the call for a new bike  :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: plaky on April 10, 2015, 10:45:34 am
It looks like delamination of the tyre in total.
I also support the call for a new bike! Michelin should pay for it! Impressed that XRRX stayed on the bike, best way to stay up is hit the front brakes hard to make the back wheel light!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 10, 2015, 10:52:33 am
The guy is not a member here - I asked him...
I think it will be impossible to prove that either BMW or their dealer and/or Michelin is at fault here - so at the end of the day I guess it's just a normal insurance claim ...  :(
I think the worst damage is electronically - he said everything went "bananas" on the dash, just before he came to a hault ... Everywhere you look underneath you see pieces of "wiring-harness" hanging out - I mean - a large computer box almost ended on the road !!  :eek7:

... and No - it wasn't XRRX on the bike ...  ;) :biggrin:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: VaalBaas on April 10, 2015, 10:58:08 am
The guy is not a member here - I asked him...
I think it will be impossible to prove that either BMW or their dealer and/or Michelin is at fault here - so at the end of the day I guess it's just a normal insurance claim ...  :(
I think the worst damage is electronically - he said everything went "bananas" on the dash, just before he came to a hault ... Everywhere you look underneath you see pieces of "wiring-harness" hanging out - I mean - a large computer box almost ended on the road !!  :eek7:

... and No - it wasn't XRRX on the bike ...  ;) :biggrin:

That explain the 180 on the clock then.  ;D :patch:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: hayleyscomet on April 10, 2015, 11:09:05 am
The guy is not a member here - I asked him...
I think it will be impossible to prove that either BMW or their dealer and/or Michelin is at fault here - so at the end of the day I guess it's just a normal insurance claim ...  :(
I think the worst damage is electronically - he said everything went "bananas" on the dash, just before he came to a hault ... Everywhere you look underneath you see pieces of "wiring-harness" hanging out - I mean - a large computer box almost ended on the road !!  :eek7:

... and No - it wasn't XRRX on the bike ...  ;) :biggrin:

That explain the 180 on the clock then.  ;D :patch:

why has the dash frozen like that ?

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Oupa Foe-rie on April 10, 2015, 11:17:16 am
Eina ................. dis nie lekker as n man se nuwe skoeter so deur n tyre opgeneuk word nie .................... :o

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: MickeyT on April 10, 2015, 11:22:34 am
Watter spoed het hy gery toe hy die blow-out gehad het?  180? Indien wel, dink ek hy het sy onderbroek weggesmyt toe hy by die huis kom!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Lord Knormoer on April 10, 2015, 11:25:12 am
If the 180km/h is correct he may have another challenge. Much too fast for that bike before the 1000km service.

BMW and the insurance will use that to their advantage.

PS: I also think under inflation. I rode those Anakees from Bloem to Cape Town at 180-200 with no issues.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: boere on April 10, 2015, 11:25:27 am
That's when the wring went out the window
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: boere on April 10, 2015, 11:27:13 am
That's when the wring went out the window
Hy sou net oor die 180 gedoen het die die tyre die fan gestrike het.

Jip ek het hierdie holkol op my maag dat hy dalk die fight gaan verloor vir een of ander kak rede ???
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Hans Ambulans on April 10, 2015, 11:50:56 am
Shame man....die arme ou! Maak nie saak watter spoed hy gery het nie. Ons almal druk maar so nou en dan! Dit moes net nie gebeur het nie. Dis nou bad luck in sy ergste vorm! Gelukkig is hyself OK. Kon maklik anders gewees het.
Title: Re:
Post by: Hotwire on April 10, 2015, 01:03:15 pm
Hul moet ook eers bewys dat hy so vinnig gery het, meskien toe die drade begin uit ruk het, het die die bike dalk n calibration test op die clocks gedoen en net daar gaan staan omdat die computer box hay wire geraak het, snaakse goed gebeur met shorts en under voltage situasies...
wie weet net daai persoon kan se as hy wou...
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: BFG on April 10, 2015, 01:06:32 pm
Whatever speed he was doing I'm sure he's going to have a struggle on his hands getting this resolved.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Mr Zog on April 10, 2015, 01:08:06 pm
I would pay that speedo no attention at all, the needles both point to the top because of the electronic failures, not from the speed.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Coala on April 10, 2015, 01:25:19 pm
wel as hy daai band op 180 verloor het moet BMW hom n medalje gee en dit as marketing gebruik vir hoe stabiel hul bikes is.   Kelvin Klein sal natuurlik die nuwe onderbroek sponsor maar dis n ander storie 
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 01:35:19 pm
I would pay that speedo no attention at all, the needles both point to the top because of the electronic failures, not from the speed.

The revs and speed correlate though.

Anyway, one of the reasons I believe in a proper run-in period.  It is not just about the engine.

 
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 10, 2015, 02:15:13 pm
This incident will have nothing to do with either BMW or Michelin

I have seen many bike accidents in my life, and this I am confident is the result of low tyre pressure and high speed

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: subie on April 10, 2015, 02:30:39 pm
This incident will have nothing to do with either BMW or Michelin

I have seen many bike accidents in my life, and this I am confident is the result of low tyre pressure and high speed



Hierdie leek dink ook so.  :patch:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Draadwerk on April 10, 2015, 03:09:16 pm
Warning lights on dash for low tyre pressure only come on at 2 bar. That tyre is supposed to be at 2.9 bar at the back. Will 0,9 bar really make such a difference that it will result in a blowout? Don't think so gents....

But, BMW might be able to see on the diagnostics what speed he was doing?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 03:25:36 pm
Come on Guys !!!!!

I cannot believe after all the posts on this forum that long standing members call for replacement of bike under warentee etc. That is unless you are a troll and trying to incite a heated discussion that has been done to death already.


Come on boys!

1. YES under inflation (you can see the discoloration from the heat build up) , But why? Answer can only be by puncture or a leak maybe at the bead or valve.
2. This was not a sudden deflation bar after the delamination took place (then it was quick).
3. High speed could have played a part but only a idiot screws a bike to max revs from the showroom floor. Either way this is a assumption.
4. Delaminated rubber is what damaged to inner fender where bmw bolt on the computer box. I know cos I did the same thing on a bmw 800 between Merweville and Sutherland also at extended time at over 180km/h destroying the inner fender just from stones being thrown up.

In closing. Insurance will pay. It is not BMW's fault. It is NOT the tyres fault. If you want to blame anyone blame the rider for not seeing or feeling he has a puncture. In his defense it is a new bike and there had been no time for bonding.

****Disclaimer*****

I cant believe I am defending BMW. But what is right is right.


Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: subie on April 10, 2015, 03:29:23 pm
Come on Guys !!!!!

I cannot believe after all the posts on this forum that long standing members call for replacement of bike under warentee etc. That is unless you are a troll and trying to incite a heated discussion that has been done to death already.


Come on boys!

1. YES under inflation (you can see the discoloration from the heat build up) , But why? Answer can only be by puncture or a leak maybe at the bead or valve.
2. This was not a sudden deflation bar after the delamination took place (then it was quick).
3. High speed could have played a part but only a idiot screws a bike to max revs from the showroom floor. Either way this is a assumption.
4. Delaminated rubber is what damaged to inner fender where bmw bolt on the computer box. I know cos I did the same thing on a bmw 800 between Merweville and Sutherland also at extended time at over 180km/h destroying the inner fender just from stones being thrown up.

In closing. Insurance will pay. It is not BMW's fault. It is NOT the tyres fault. If you want to blame anyone blame the rider for not seeing or feeling he has a puncture. In his defense it is a new bike and there had been no time for bonding.

****Disclaimer*****

I cant believe I am defending BMW. But what is right is right.




 :thumleft:
Good post
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 03:31:29 pm
Warning lights on dash for low tyre pressure only come on at 2 bar. That tyre is supposed to be at 2.9 bar at the back. Will 0,9 bar really make such a difference that it will result in a blowout? Don't think so gents....

But, BMW might be able to see on the diagnostics what speed he was doing?

Its a new bike he maybe never saw it come on and was enjoying such a nice ride through the Karoo looking at the scenery and playing high speed highway with the few cars in the area. Who knows.

Maybe the computer had already dropped and was not taking readings anymore.

Its all assumption.

What is not assumption is the story the tyre tells, the facts are all there.

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: silvrav on April 10, 2015, 03:32:50 pm
 :eek7: :eek7: ek moet my honderbroek gaan verander net vir sy part...
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 10, 2015, 03:33:05 pm
Come on Guys !!!!!

I cannot believe after all the posts on this forum that long standing members call for replacement of bike under warentee etc. That is unless you are a troll and trying to incite a heated discussion that has been done to death already.


Come on boys!

1. YES under inflation (you can see the discoloration from the heat build up) , But why? Answer can only be by puncture or a leak maybe at the bead or valve.
2. This was not a sudden deflation bar after the delamination took place (then it was quick).
3. High speed could have played a part but only a idiot screws a bike to max revs from the showroom floor. Either way this is a assumption.
4. Delaminated rubber is what damaged to inner fender where bmw bolt on the computer box. I know cos I did the same thing on a bmw 800 between Merweville and Sutherland also at extended time at over 180km/h destroying the inner fender just from stones being thrown up.

In closing. Insurance will pay. It is not BMW's fault. It is NOT the tyres fault. If you want to blame anyone blame the rider for not seeing or feeling he has a puncture. In his defense it is a new bike and there had been no time for bonding.

****Disclaimer*****

I cant believe I am defending BMW. But what is right is right.




 :thumleft:
Good post

Agree 100%
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 03:47:22 pm
Impact marks from either loose rubber hitting the undercarriage.

Looking at this again I would also assume that this "piece of rubber" that caused most of this damage was still attached to the casing and was wiping around.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 03:51:54 pm
One of the many spots showing heat
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 03:54:24 pm
You can see here how the tread was "skinned" off the casing.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: VaalBaas on April 10, 2015, 04:02:12 pm
Met soveel skade is die kanse seker nog goed dat die versekeraar die fiets afskryf. Met 'n nuwe fiets soos die een, hoeveel verloor die eienaar in so 'n geval. Net nuuskierig
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on April 10, 2015, 04:07:35 pm
Met soveel skade is die kanse seker nog goed dat die versekeraar die fiets afskryf. Met 'n nuwe fiets soos die een, hoeveel verloor die eienaar in so 'n geval. Net nuuskierig
Het BMW insurance nie altyd die fiets vervang as hy in die eerste jaar afgeskryf word?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Noneking on April 10, 2015, 04:11:42 pm
Met soveel skade is die kanse seker nog goed dat die versekeraar die fiets afskryf. Met 'n nuwe fiets soos die een, hoeveel verloor die eienaar in so 'n geval. Net nuuskierig
Het BMW insurance nie altyd die fiets vervang as hy in die eerste jaar afgeskryf word?

Steeds so
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 04:16:40 pm
I doubt that damage shown will write off a R200 000.00 plus bike
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on April 10, 2015, 04:30:28 pm
 enjoying such a nice ride through the Karoo looking at the scenery

I think his tyre blew up because he was lost being on the N2 thinking he was in the Karoo :peepwall: >:D
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: VaalBaas on April 10, 2015, 04:34:23 pm
I doubt that damage shown will write off a R200 000.00 plus bike

Rear sub frame, computer box, rim, well allmost the whole back end of that bike. It would be interesting what the amount of damage will be.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 04:46:19 pm
enjoying such a nice ride through the Karoo looking at the scenery

I think his tyre blew up because he was lost being on the N2 thinking he was in the Karoo :peepwall: >:D

 :laughing4:

I never travel the direct route so the assumption was that he does the same.

Just a scenario none the less  :deal:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2015, 04:48:07 pm
I doubt that damage shown will write off a R200 000.00 plus bike

Rear sub frame, computer box, rim, well allmost the whole back end of that bike. It would be interesting what the amount of damage will be.

Yip it would.

I dont think the sub frame needs replacement from what I can see (most of it can polish out) but knowing BMW they will replace everything.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: DirtRebell on April 10, 2015, 08:13:38 pm
If I was the owner I'd push the bike over from its centre stand to ensure a write off.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 10, 2015, 09:00:29 pm
What is significant here, and something everybody seemed to have overlooked, is that this is a "Adventure, all-terrain" machine.

Yet tire shredding on a tar road pulls almost all of it's own electrics through it's own poephol.......

Better not take these babes offroad. ;)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 09:25:16 pm
Met soveel skade is die kanse seker nog goed dat die versekeraar die fiets afskryf. Met 'n nuwe fiets soos die een, hoeveel verloor die eienaar in so 'n geval. Net nuuskierig
Het BMW insurance nie altyd die fiets vervang as hy in die eerste jaar afgeskryf word?

Jip.  Dis nog so.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 09:27:16 pm
This incident will have nothing to do with either BMW or Michelin

I have seen many bike accidents in my life, and this I am confident is the result of low tyre pressure and high speed



The bike would have warned him of a low tire pressure.  Constantly and irritatingly.   Only a complete idiot would ride at high speed with his pressure warning going crazy.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 09:30:13 pm
. If you want to blame anyone blame the rider for not seeing or feeling he has a puncture. In his defense it is a new bike and there had been no time for bonding.




His tire pressure sensors would have warned him of slow inflation.   I doubt he could have missed the flashing triangle on the dash.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 09:32:56 pm
What is significant here, and something everybody seemed to have overlooked, is that this is a "Adventure, all-terrain" machine.

Yet tire shredding on a tar road pulls almost all of it's own electrics through it's own poephol.......

Better not take these babes offroad. ;)


Duel purpose now = all-terrain?    :lol8:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 10, 2015, 09:37:46 pm
What is significant here, and something everybody seemed to have overlooked, is that this is a "Adventure, all-terrain" machine.

Yet tire shredding on a tar road pulls almost all of it's own electrics through it's own poephol.......

Better not take these babes offroad. ;)


Duel purpose now = all-terrain?    :lol8:

You can ride a D/S bike on tar, and on dirt. This is termed "all-terrain". Another misleading marketing term. :imaposer:

This tyre could have gone from the correct pressure to zero in so little time that the rider probably would not have noticed the idiot lights in the battle to control the machine.
So many possible scenarios, glad I do not have to try sort this one out.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 09:39:53 pm

You can ride a D/S bike on tar, and on dirt. This is termed "all-terrain".  :imaposer:

Twak!

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 10, 2015, 09:46:33 pm

You can ride a D/S bike on tar, and on dirt. This is termed "all-terrain".  :imaposer:

Twak!



Feel free to name other surfaces to ride on, other than the already mentioned tar and dirt.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 09:51:48 pm

You can ride a D/S bike on tar, and on dirt. This is termed "all-terrain".  :imaposer:

Twak!



Feel free to name other surfaces to ride on, other than the already mentioned tar and dirt.

Well,  I know you well enough to know that you are now just baiting with semantics,
 because you are enough of an off-road rider to know that off-tar does not necessarily equate to off-road.



Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 10, 2015, 09:56:37 pm
BMW sal my n nuwe bike gee, of my geld terug. End of story.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 09:59:33 pm
BMW sal my n nuwe bike gee, of my geld terug. End of story.

Maar jy ry 'n KTM.  Hoekom BMW verantwoordelik hou?   :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 10, 2015, 10:29:09 pm
BMW sal my n nuwe bike gee, of my geld terug. End of story.

Maar jy ry 'n KTM.  Hoekom BMW verantwoordelik hou?   :imaposer:

Ek ry al 4mnde lank n LC, was net te bang om dit hier te erken  :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 10, 2015, 10:33:11 pm
BMW sal my n nuwe bike gee, of my geld terug. End of story.

Maar jy ry 'n KTM.  Hoekom BMW verantwoordelik hou?   :imaposer:

Ek ry al 4mnde lank n LC, was net te bang om dit hier te erken  :peepwall:

Nee,  maar dit kan ek goed verstaan.   Ons hou dit ons geheim.    :lol8:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 11, 2015, 06:39:24 am
BMW sal my n nuwe bike gee, of my geld terug. End of story.

Maar jy ry 'n KTM.  Hoekom BMW verantwoordelik hou?   :imaposer:

Ek ry al 4mnde lank n LC, was net te bang om dit hier te erken  :peepwall:

Ek dog eers dit was jou bike daar langs die pad met die electronic rear wheel, maar jy sal mos nooit 600kms kan opsit in net vier maande nie. :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 11, 2015, 06:45:26 am
Absolutely no baiting here.

It simply struck me as odd that a disintegrating tyre, and I know that at high speed they can cause damage, could actually render any bike useless to the degree that
a possible insurance write-off is discussed!

I have witnessed big damage on bikes after tyre blow-outs, but then only because the riders went down with the bike, and the resultant crash-damage ensued.

This bike did not crash. :xxbah:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Rough Rider on April 11, 2015, 07:29:43 am
What is significant here, and something everybody seemed to have overlooked, is that this is a "Adventure, all-terrain" machine.

Yet tire shredding on a tar road pulls almost all of it's own electrics through it's own poephol.......

Better not take these babes offroad. ;)


I thought the same thing.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: JABO on April 11, 2015, 07:45:11 am
Ek het in September laas jaar n soort gelyke geval gehad.
Gelukkig nie n blow out gehad nie.

Het n superbike gejaag op R21 Noord vanaf Voortrekker weg in Kempton.
Net voor daai garages in die middel tussen Kempton en Centurion toe kom my liggie aan vir die Agter wiel en wys preassure = 0.0.
Ek slaan toe brieke aan en bring my spoed af na so 140kmh en doen n paar vinnige bewegings om te voel of daar iets snaaks aan gaan maar kon ernstig niks abnormaal voel nie.
Dog toe vir myself dalk is dit omdat ek so vinnig ry dat die sensors nie meer kan optel nie.
Toe is die dice aan want nou het ek plek verloor met die superbike en moet op vang.
Soos ek weer by die superbike by bly pla dit my dat die liggie nog steeds my uit kak.
Ek besluit toe om die superbike verby te vat en vang die Nelmapius afrit want daar is darm n garage naby op die hoek.
Ek het toe stadig begin af sleg en weer eens op 140kmh voel ek regtig niks.
120kmh toe voel ek jiss maar hier is klein bietjie fout.
80kmh jaaaaa hier is seriously fout.
Daar was toe n 5mm groot koel ronde gat.
Kon toe na die garage limp en patch kit koop plug hom en verder ry.
Gelukkig was dit net n paar km maar wie weet hoeveel km dit vat op n pap wiel om te delaminate.


Daarna was ek na die kalahari bash toe met die selfde tyre en het eventualy n minor blow out gehad op die sout pan na ek top spoed gedoen het vir so 5km.

Soooooooo.
As daai verdomde liggies aan kom moet jy stop.
Hulle is nie verniet daar nie.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 08:04:05 am
Absolutely no baiting here.

It simply struck me as odd that a disintegrating tyre, and I know that at high speed they can cause damage, could actually render any bike useless to the degree that
a possible insurance write-off is discussed!

I have witnessed big damage on bikes after tyre blow-outs, but then only because the riders went down with the bike, and the resultant crash-damage ensued.

This bike did not crash. :xxbah:


Danie ... Danie ... Danie ... het jy al klaar vergeet wat jy gisteraand kwyt geraak het?

This is about you declaring the BMW an "ALL-TERRAIN" vehicle which it is not and never was.  Not seen as such by anyone, nor marketed as such.  Then your argument that riding on tar and on dirt makes a vehicle a all-terrain vehicle.  In other words, turning all-surface to all-terrain.   That was the baiting part.

You can ride a D/S bike on tar, and on dirt. This is termed "all-terrain".

Man, my skoonma was erg opgewonde om te hoor jy verklaar haar Smart For2 'n All-Terrain Vehicle!   :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Ons gaan more so bietjie die "terrain" aanpak met daai Smart karrretjie van haar.  

(http://www.rnrwheels.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/10/0806_4wd_11_z-allpro_off_road_jamboree-suzuki_samurai.jpg)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Fudge on April 11, 2015, 08:58:36 am
What is significant here, and something everybody seemed to have overlooked, is that this is a "Adventure, all-terrain" machine.

Yet tire shredding on a tar road pulls almost all of it's own electrics through it's own poephol.......

Better not take these babes offroad. ;)


Duel purpose now = all-terrain?    :lol8:

"BMW Motorrad's support was integral to the success of Long Way Round and Long Way Down. Ewan, Charley and their cameraman, Claudio Von Planta, were given three special-edition Enduro R1150 GS Adventure all-terrain motorcycles - designed and engineered for long distances and off-road terrain. BMW offered considerable technical help and practical riding equipment to Ewan McGregor, Charley Boorman and their support team. The BMW GS celebrates its '30 Years GS' as the most successful BMW model series ever." - http://www.longwayround.com/team_partners_sponsors.htm (http://www.longwayround.com/team_partners_sponsors.htm)  :biggrin:

Absolutely no baiting here.

It simply struck me as odd that a disintegrating tyre, and I know that at high speed they can cause damage, could actually render any bike useless to the degree that
a possible insurance write-off is discussed!

I have witnessed big damage on bikes after tyre blow-outs, but then only because the riders went down with the bike, and the resultant crash-damage ensued.

This bike did not crash. :xxbah:


Danie ... Danie ... Danie ... het jy al klaar vergeet wat jy gisteraand kwyt geraak het?

This is about you declaring the BMW an "ALL-TERRAIN" vehicle which it is not and never was.  Not seen as such by anyone, nor marketed as such.  Then your argument that riding on tar and on dirt makes a vehicle a all-terrain vehicle.  In other words, turning all-surface to all-terrain.   That was the baiting part.

http://www.bavarianmc.co.za/motorcycles/enduro/r-1200-gs-lc (http://www.bavarianmc.co.za/motorcycles/enduro/r-1200-gs-lc)
"One R 1200 GS. One Emotion Ė Supreme control

The new R 1200 GS is ready for any terrain, thanks to the greater rigidity of its main frame and its enhanced Paralever and Telelever for even greater enduro steering accuracy. "
  :3some:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 10:10:17 am
You win Fudge.   

You win 2SD.

???
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Fudge on April 11, 2015, 10:19:29 am
 ;) No worries mate!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: VaalBaas on April 11, 2015, 11:06:08 am
Nou het iemand toe al 'n blow-out in die all terrain toestande gehad teen 180km/h  :imaposer: :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Fudge on April 11, 2015, 11:44:59 am
Nou het iemand toe al 'n blow-out in die all terrain toestande gehad teen 180km/h  :imaposer: :peepwall:

Does this count?
(http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39027&stc=1&d=1138603275)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: VaalBaas on April 11, 2015, 12:07:53 pm
All the trucks colour coded with the bikes?  Nice
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 11, 2015, 12:51:33 pm
Very funny thread.

Nice to see the BMW guys not getting their knickers in n knoop.

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Skaiidawg on April 11, 2015, 12:57:17 pm

His tire pressure sensors would have warned him of slow inflation.   I doubt he could have missed the flashing triangle on the dash.

So he started of with a flat ......slowly inflate and then the shit started???? ??? ???
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Bundu on April 11, 2015, 01:59:37 pm
If I was the owner I'd push the bike over from its centre stand to ensure a write off.

 :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Draadwerk on April 11, 2015, 03:04:45 pm
Dalk het die man nog nie die Manual gelees nie. Hy dog dalk die liggies is vir mooigeit
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Flowers on April 11, 2015, 03:52:51 pm
BMW sal my n nuwe bike gee, of my geld terug. End of story.
Ja and Jacob is a very good president!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 06:01:24 pm

His tire pressure sensors would have warned him of slow inflation.   I doubt he could have missed the flashing triangle on the dash.

So he started of with a flat ......slowly inflate and then the shit started???? ??? ???

No!  Not like that at all.  I will give you one more day to figure it out.  :ricky:

Very funny thread.

Nice to see the BMW guys not getting their knickers in n knoop.



It is because we wear only BMW branded knickers.  It comes pre-knotted.  That is what make it so expensive.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 11, 2015, 07:15:33 pm
Chaps & Chapelinas - we can speculate as much as we have time for - but the fact remains, instead of all the technology - this poor guy lost a rear tyre AND it destroyed the majority of a 200k bike - not what I would call a good investment !!!  :-\ It couldn't even charge his new Samsung S6 !!!  :lol8:
He told me this: I'm actually a KTM guy - but I thought it's time for a "Gentleman's bike" ... Poor guy ...  :eek7:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 08:06:26 pm
Chaps & Chapelinas - we can speculate as much as we have time for - but the fact remains, instead of all the technology - this poor guy lost a rear tyre AND it destroyed the majority of a 200k bike - not what I would call a good investment !!!  :-\ It couldn't even charge his new Samsung S6 !!!  :lol8:
He told me this: I'm actually a KTM guy - but I thought it's time for a "Gentleman's bike" ... Poor guy ...  :eek7:

I have to wonder, if a similar tire failure would not cause similar damage on almost any bike with underseat battery and black boxes.

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Moondog on April 11, 2015, 08:34:53 pm
That was a massive piece of tyre that delaminated - I honestly believe that if the same happened with any other bike at 180km/h, the likely damage would be just as extensive.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 08:40:23 pm
That was a massive piece of tyre that delaminated - I honestly believe that if the same happened with any other bike at 180km/h, the likely damage would be just as extensive.

Yeah.  I am wondering, a piece of thread like that come off the casing of the tire at 180,odd but not completely, at what force will it hit whatever it connects and how many times before coming off completely, or before the vehicle is at a standstill.  Jinne!  Can you imagine being hit by something like that?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: profiler on April 11, 2015, 09:04:02 pm
 I wonder who will come up with it first?

Who will design and market an under seat, mud(or tyre scrapnell) aluminium or stainless steel protector to be bolted over the current black plastic protector which is not very strong in above mentioned conditions, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Will you buy and fit one, I might especially after seeing this fred! I don't think it will qualify as bling.......

 O0
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 09:06:25 pm
So, I sniffed around on Google images and now I want tires banned!    :eek7:

(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/articles/images/430_20090915_001.jpg)

(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/articles/images/430_20090915_004.jpg)

(http://www.roaddriver.co.uk/webroot/uploads/vb15_blowout_rim_vehicle_breakdowns_.jpg)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Rel0aG9eoHA/SxQadLSf2oI/AAAAAAAACwg/4bOb3t8uVYc/s640/100_0376.JPG)

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: profiler on April 11, 2015, 09:11:28 pm
Would be nice to hear from the rider what emotions (not the liqued type in his underpants) and motions he went through and what actually happened plus conditions etc
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 11, 2015, 09:24:30 pm
So, I sniffed around on Google images and now I want tires banned!    :eek7:

(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/articles/images/430_20090915_001.jpg)

(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/articles/images/430_20090915_004.jpg)

(http://www.roaddriver.co.uk/webroot/uploads/vb15_blowout_rim_vehicle_breakdowns_.jpg)

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Rel0aG9eoHA/SxQadLSf2oI/AAAAAAAACwg/4bOb3t8uVYc/s640/100_0376.JPG)



Ironic how it is just the lightweight, weak, plastic bodied cars that destroys themselves.
Expected of a roadcar, but not an "Enduro" moded D/S machine. :3some:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 11, 2015, 09:31:46 pm
I wonder who will come up with it first?

Who will design and market an under seat, mud(or tyre scrapnell) aluminium or stainless steel protector to be bolted over the current black plastic protector which is not very strong in above mentioned conditions, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Will you buy and fit one, I might especially after seeing this fred! I don't think it will qualify as bling.......

 O0

+1

All of this is actually the buying public's own fault - we always scream for the "lightest" possible machines - but gravity will always be gravity...
I'm sure BMW can make this bike "tyre-delamination-proof" - BUT NOT at the advertised weight !!!  8)
In this instance I'll put my money on the Japanese heavy weights - but yes -  I've got no proof ...  :-\
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 11, 2015, 09:35:53 pm
Until a XTZ1200 is as utterly vandalized by it's own rear foot, I will contend that it is much tougher than these new softshoe Beemers.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Jakkals on April 11, 2015, 09:58:56 pm
Until a XTZ1200 is as utterly vandalized by it's own rear foot, I will contend that it is much tougher than these new softshoe Beemers.
Stem 100% saam en ook een van die redes hoekom ek een gekoop het.  :deal:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 10:00:47 pm
Until a XTZ1200 is as utterly vandalized by it's own rear foot, I will contend that it is much tougher than these new softshoe Beemers.

Of course.  


Until a XTZ1200 is as utterly vandalized by it's own rear foot, I will contend that it is much tougher than these new softshoe Beemers.
Stem 100% saam en ook een van die redes hoekom ek een gekoop het.  :deal:

Jy het toe reeds geweet die STen sal so tire strike hanteer en die BMW nie!?

Nostrodamus Toekenning (Goud)  vir jou!   :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 11, 2015, 10:16:01 pm
Ironic how it is just the lightweight, weak, plastic bodied cars that destroys themselves.
Expected of a roadcar, but not an "Enduro" moded D/S machine. :3some:


Ag tog Danie.  Ek het sommer net so paar fotos gekies.  Sommer so vir interesantheid en om te sien die moerse slag waarmee so band kan slaan.  Gedag party sal dit interresant vind.  As jy dit nodig het om aan ouself te bewys hoe saf die BMW is, jy mors jou tyd.  Ons almal weet dit mos lankal.  Dit vat nie 'n slimme man om te sien die plastiese beskermer van die BMW is nie opgewasse vir die taak nie.

(http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/tmp/243/243185.520.390)

Ja.  Toemaar.  Ek weet. Ironic how only a Ford will suffer serious damage.  Ford is soft and crap.

(http://iweighforthehighway.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/19.jpg)

Yeah ... don't worry.  I know.  Double wheel busses heavy ... just like the fat bastard Beemers.



Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 12, 2015, 01:31:24 am
Like I said earlier in this tread:
I have been a paramedic for most of my life
I have done a fair bit of accident investigation
I had access to the COC and was looking at the tapes over and over again on a daily basis to see how some accidents had happened
Based on my experience there is no other explanation to this, I have seen enough.
Low pressure and prolonged speed, heat build up = disaster
People should pay attention and never ride a new bike so hard in the first weeks of ownership but gradually come into it and meant with the bike
To have a new bike and ride it like that without the experience to feel a soft wheel is bad luck but also (sorry) stupid
This man must go and say thank you to God that his number did not come up because it was closer than he might think
Hopefully his insurance will repair - that is if he can prof that he did not do 180km/h on a public road as the clock is stuck
They can retrieve that information from the computer box if it still can be retrieved
He shoud be so relieved if the insurance helps him!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 07:39:34 am
I wonder who will come up with it first?

Who will design and market an under seat, mud(or tyre scrapnell) aluminium or stainless steel protector to be bolted over the current black plastic protector which is not very strong in above mentioned conditions, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Will you buy and fit one, I might especially after seeing this fred! I don't think it will qualify as bling.......

 O0

Someone is bound to come up with one, but it would have to bolt pretty solidly to spots that won't just be destroyed anyway.

I wouldn't buy one though.  Don't see the need, just as I don't see the need for radiator guards, headlight guards, etc.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: DirtyHarry on April 12, 2015, 08:00:31 am
Like I said earlier in this tread:
I have been a paramedic for most of my life
I have done a fair bit of accident investigation
I had access to the COC and was looking at the tapes over and over again on a daily basis to see how some accidents had happened
Based on my experience there is no other explanation to this, I have seen enough.
Low pressure and prolonged speed, heat build up = disaster
People should pay attention and never ride a new bike so hard in the first weeks of ownership but gradually come into it and meant with the bike
To have a new bike and ride it like that without the experience to feel a soft wheel is bad luck but also (sorry) stupid
This man must go and say thank you to God that his number did not come up because it was closer than he might think
Hopefully his insurance will repair - that is if he can prof that he did not do 180km/h on a public road as the clock is stuck
They can retrieve that information from the computer box if it still can be retrieved
He shoud be so relieved if the insurance helps him!
I agree. Either great riding skills or pure luck kept this rider in the seat. A tyre will only look that bad if it gets completely overcooked. With very low tyre pressure you might even manage to cook your tyre within the speed limit.
Any insurance might reject the claim once your speed has been recorded over the legal speed limit.
Isn't excessive speed the cause of most (all) incidents and accidents on bikes, especially when it comes to tyres?

I often ride my tyres under inflated on tar after a off-road session and they get hot even well  below the speed limit.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 08:28:44 am
I ride mine below what the BMW computer reckons it should be when playing on track.  The flashing warning is so visible an irritating that I plak a bit of tape over it.  Not sure how one would miss that for a long enough period to cook the tire.  It is possible I suppose.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: corriej on April 12, 2015, 09:20:44 am
Puncture in 200km / h on a BMW 1200GS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuS0WmrThy0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuS0WmrThy0)

So it can survive a high speed puncture.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: DirtyHarry on April 12, 2015, 10:05:34 am
A puncture is one thing but if a tyre spits out it's entire thread, you are in serious trouble.
It completely collapses in no time.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 12, 2015, 10:13:53 am
Snaaks die shaft drive het nie ook uitgeval nie  :pot:  :peepwall:  :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: ghosty on April 12, 2015, 10:25:35 am
Maybe I am just the ignorant little tjop sitting in the back of the class,

But......

Could this kind of "tyre damage" have been caused from something coming loose from the "undercarriage" and lodging itself between the tyre and swingarm?
Thereafter leading the ultimate end of the tyre by: Excessive heat; under inlfation; "shredding"; or just being torn apart?


This was my very first thought when I saw the original post...

just a few Cents...
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 12, 2015, 12:57:23 pm
I'm sure this guy would not have deflated the tyre himself - remember - it's a new bike he picked-up the day before from the Dealer - so the initial pressure should have been correct. He hasn't been on any gravel yet and was actually still getting the "feeling" for his new ride. Apparently he is an old hand at the bars with a moto-x background and as I've said a few large KTM's previously ...
Fact remains - it was just not his time yet!!!  :eek7: He also had nothing bad to say about the GS - and was adamant that we strap it down to the truck very carefully - as he didn't want any additional scratches on his new bike ...  ::)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: cheesy on April 12, 2015, 01:08:07 pm
Surely the rider should have felt the vibration caused by the delamination, Just asking.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Bundu on April 12, 2015, 01:49:06 pm
Surely the rider should have felt the vibration caused by the delamination, Just asking.

sure he did, otherwise he would not have stopped  ;)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 05:49:43 pm
See that silver ECU/control box lying on the tyre?

Maybe the tyre was not to blame at all, and that box came loose and damaged the tyre?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 06:13:23 pm
See that silver ECU/control box lying on the tyre?

Maybe the tyre was not to blame at all, and that box came loose and damaged the tyre?

Ja, maybe it came loose, fell straight through the mudguard and damaged the tire. 

Maybe he rode over a Suzuki badge and those sharp edges of the S did the damage.



Maybe the rider farted real hard and that destroyed everything, from ECU to tire.   :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Sprocketbek on April 12, 2015, 06:16:49 pm
I think the poop scoop came loose and caused all that kak........ :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Noneking on April 12, 2015, 06:25:54 pm
No surprises here ....
Haters and trolls turning a tyre failure into a bike brand bashing party.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 06:32:43 pm
No surprises here ....
Haters and trolls turning a tyre failure into a bike brand bashing party.


I have never seen a tyre failure wreck a motorcycle so completely, without an actual accident. If my saying so hurt BMW feelings so bad that you resort to calling me a
"hater and troll" , be my guest.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Noneking on April 12, 2015, 06:34:49 pm
If the 180km/h is correct he may have another challenge. Much too fast for that bike before the 1000km service.

BMW and the insurance will use that to their advantage.

PS: I also think under inflation. I rode those Anakees from Bloem to Cape Town at 180-200 with no issues.

No way, mine at 5000rpm at 140km/h, photo in OP 6000rpm
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Noneking on April 12, 2015, 06:35:18 pm
No surprises here ....
Haters and trolls turning a tyre failure into a bike brand bashing party.


I have never seen a tyre failure wreck a motorcycle so completely, without an actual accident. If my saying so hurt BMW feelings so bad that you resort to calling me a
"hater and troll" , be my guest.


If the shoe fits.....
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 06:38:38 pm
If the 180km/h is correct he may have another challenge. Much too fast for that bike before the 1000km service.

BMW and the insurance will use that to their advantage.

PS: I also think under inflation. I rode those Anakees from Bloem to Cape Town at 180-200 with no issues.

No way, mine at 5000rpm at 140km/h, photo in OP 6000rpm

6250 rpm = 175km/h. 
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 06:39:23 pm

I have never seen a tyre failure wreck a motorcycle so completely, without an actual accident. If my saying so hurt BMW feelings so bad that you resort to calling me a
"hater and troll" , be my guest.


That doesn't mean it never happened Danie.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 06:42:57 pm

I have never seen a tyre failure wreck a motorcycle so completely, without an actual accident. If my saying so hurt BMW feelings so bad that you resort to calling me a
"hater and troll" , be my guest.


That doesn't mean it never happened Danie.

Perhaps you can prove me wrong with more photo evidence? :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 06:47:14 pm


Perhaps you can prove me wrong with more photo evidence? :thumleft:


I have a better idea.  Why not prove yourself right with photo evidence? 
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 06:49:20 pm


Perhaps you can prove me wrong with more photo evidence? :thumleft:


I have a better idea.  Why not prove yourself right with photo evidence? 

The OP did that for me. :ricky:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: gecco 162 on April 12, 2015, 06:54:57 pm
I am not a brand BITCH,  I ride and enjoy my bike, the company I am with and the stress relief I get from a ride. If you ride a Klr, Bmw , Ktm or a fucking Vespa and keep up with the pack, then you are most welcome to ride with me. This chap had  kak luck and now the Wilddog CSI are ass reaming the mans misfortune! Well done guys!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 06:56:25 pm


Perhaps you can prove me wrong with more photo evidence? :thumleft:


I have a better idea.  Why not prove yourself right with photo evidence? 

The OP did that for me. :ricky:


Nope.  You need to prove what you just said, i.e. that it has never happened on any other bike.

Anyway, who cares?  The bike is destroyed.  We know you will go on and on and on "tot vervelens toe" to tell all how kak a Beemer is.  We know what your opinion is of the bike, so basically, you are not saying anything new.  Come on dude, time to come up with something new and exciting about the kakness of the BMW.

GO!!!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Noneking on April 12, 2015, 06:59:30 pm
This guy had severe damage to bike despite not having the same degree of de-lamination as rider in OP's picks.
https://www.youtube.com/v/L1SNULfwsbo
Title: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Draadwerk on April 12, 2015, 07:00:23 pm
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/34139417c8a562259a014697ee81129f.jpg)

Go 2 SD
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Dcjet on April 12, 2015, 07:03:34 pm
Yet again another thread that may have been informative and beneficial to the members of the forum (and not just BMW riders) gets derailed by the resident ***hat.
It is incredible that he might even believe the crap that he spews.
I really would like to know what caused this issue as it will benefit us all but the anti BMW troll has to bore us with his shit again
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2wdrift on April 12, 2015, 07:09:33 pm
I see many posts where people disregard that the damage to the electronics could and probably did alter the dials. Not saying he was riding slowly just saying that the dials arent a reliable way to determine the speed he was doing.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Bundu on April 12, 2015, 07:30:45 pm
just seen another one vuisbook

"Hi guys. I am stuck in Nieuwoudtville on my way from Kimberley to Saldanha Bay with a big piece of my rear tyre tread that came off. Am riding a BMW 1200 Adventure. Tyre size is 150/70-17. Can anyone assist me please."
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=776633789101923&set=pcb.1672416592986169&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=776633789101923&set=pcb.1672416592986169&type=1&theater)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Draadwerk on April 12, 2015, 07:36:17 pm
Is dit ook 'n Anakee 3?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 07:40:32 pm
Is dit ook 'n Anakee 3?

Nee.  Lyk soos 'n Anakee 2 or Metzeler Tourance.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Draadwerk on April 12, 2015, 07:46:04 pm
Kan ons uitvind watter bande betrokke is by beide insidente hier?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Odd Dog on April 12, 2015, 08:05:41 pm
Some of the newer cars speedos these days  stop at the speed it was doing when involved in a serious accident. Golf GTI is one. Maybe the same with the newer bikes??
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Noneking on April 12, 2015, 08:30:23 pm
just seen another one vuisbook

"Hi guys. I am stuck in Nieuwoudtville on my way from Kimberley to Saldanha Bay with a big piece of my rear tyre tread that came off. Am riding a BMW 1200 Adventure. Tyre size is 150/70-17. Can anyone assist me please."
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=776633789101923&set=pcb.1672416592986169&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=776633789101923&set=pcb.1672416592986169&type=1&theater)

Daai is Heidi's
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 08:35:35 pm


Perhaps you can prove me wrong with more photo evidence? :thumleft:


I have a better idea.  Why not prove yourself right with photo evidence? 

The OP did that for me. :ricky:


Nope.  You need to prove what you just said, i.e. that it has never happened on any other bike.

Anyway, who cares?  The bike is destroyed.  We know you will go on and on and on "tot vervelens toe" to tell all how kak a Beemer is.  We know what your opinion is of the bike, so basically, you are not saying anything new.  Come on dude, time to come up with something new and exciting about the kakness of the BMW.

GO!!!

AMZ, I will react to your above post, even if and when I know you are baiting, which by the way makes you a troll too. :imaposer:
You say that this never happened to any Beemer before? IOW this is then already something new and exciting? :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 08:39:53 pm
Yet again another thread that may have been informative and beneficial to the members of the forum (and not just BMW riders) gets derailed by the resident ***hat.
It is incredible that he might even believe the crap that he spews.
I really would like to know what caused this issue as it will benefit us all but the anti BMW troll has to bore us with his shit again

Please do not think for a moment that I consider you a lightweight with 36 posts, not at all, but it does show me that your above post and your low post count correlate to exhibit your lack of experience on WD forum.

What on earth makes you say that this thread may EVER have been "informative and beneficial"????? Guessing about whether the insurance will pay, or BMW will pay
or low pressure or high speed or whether the computer memory might remember how fast he was riding, etc etc etc etc etc
I may as well spice it up a bit. :pot:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Dcjet on April 12, 2015, 08:58:50 pm
Do I need to be as full of shit as you to be considered a heavyweight on the WD Forum?  :lol8:
The warranty and electronic dial speculation may not be that informative but I have had Anakee 3's on a few different bikes and have not heard of such a drastic failure before on any other forum.
The Mitas E-07'S (I think) had similar problems which were attributed to either manufacturing/design faults or running under-inflated.
The particular interest for me with the larger ADV bikes (of any make) is that I reduce the tyre pressure on the offroad sections but then sometimes make a high speed run on tar to the next dirt section without re-inflating the tyre and if this can result in a failure like this I may need to rethink the strategy.
 
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 12, 2015, 09:04:09 pm

You say that this never happened to any Beemer before? IOW this is then already something new and exciting? :thumleft:


My memory betrays me.   Please point me to where I said this never happened to any BMW before?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Noneking on April 12, 2015, 09:04:47 pm
Do I need to be as full of shit as you to be considered a heavyweight on the WD Forum?  :lol8:
The warranty and electronic dial speculation may not be that informative but I have had Anakee 3's on a few different bikes and have not heard of such a drastic failure before on any other forum.
The Mitas E-07'S (I think) had similar problems which were attributed to either manufacturing/design faults or running under-inflated.
The particular interest for me with the larger ADV bikes (of any make) is that I reduce the tyre pressure on the offroad sections but then sometimes make a high speed run on tar to the next dirt section without re-inflating the tyre and if this can result in a failure like this I may need to rethink the strategy.

I tend do do the same, although it is usually short stints, i realise now that I'm looking for trouble.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 12, 2015, 09:16:49 pm
Rubber is quite a heavy substance.

Now think about what the tread on a delaminating tyre weighs.  1-2 kgs or more?

Now think what sort of revs the back wheel is doing at 180.

So who would like to stick their hand into a 2kg weight spinning around the outside of a 17 inch wheel at those sorts of rpm's?

That sort of thing is going to cause serious damage to what ever it comes into contact with.

Its unfortunate that some very expensive parts are located in exactly the wrong position on that bike.

Its also unfortunate that the tyre was wrecked in the first place.  

Although the dichotomy between modern big adventure bikes being pseudo super bikes AND "enduro" bikes all at the same time maybe makes this a bit of problem for tyre manufacturers.  

A super bike tyre only has to do one thing.  A big adventure bike tyre has try and be all things at once  :-\
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 09:49:50 pm
Rubber is quite a heavy substance.

Now think about what the tread on a delaminating tyre weighs.  1-2 kgs or more?

Now think what sort of revs the back wheel is doing at 180.

So who would like to stick their hand into a 2kg weight spinning around the outside of a 17 inch wheel at those sorts of rpm's?

That sort of thing is going to cause serious damage to what ever it comes into contact with.

Its unfortunate that some very expensive parts are located in exactly the wrong position on that bike.

Its also unfortunate that the tyre was wrecked in the first place.  

Although the dichotomy between modern big adventure bikes being pseudo super bikes AND "enduro" bikes all at the same time maybe makes this a bit of problem for tyre manufacturers.  

A super bike tyre only has to do one thing.  A big adventure bike tyre has try and be all things at once  :-\


This thread's 1st sensible post.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2wdrift on April 12, 2015, 10:01:12 pm
Rubber is quite a heavy substance.

Now think about what the tread on a delaminating tyre weighs.  1-2 kgs or more?

Now think what sort of revs the back wheel is doing at 180.

So who would like to stick their hand into a 2kg weight spinning around the outside of a 17 inch wheel at those sorts of rpm's?

That sort of thing is going to cause serious damage to what ever it comes into contact with.

Its unfortunate that some very expensive parts are located in exactly the wrong position on that bike.

Its also unfortunate that the tyre was wrecked in the first place.  

Although the dichotomy between modern big adventure bikes being pseudo super bikes AND "enduro" bikes all at the same time maybe makes this a bit of problem for tyre manufacturers.  

A super bike tyre only has to do one thing.  A big adventure bike tyre has try and be all things at once  :-\


If the bike was moving at 180km/h the tyre would be moving at the same speed at its normal radius. If that radius increased by a third (due to delamination) you could be looking at a piece of rubber being flung around at a fair bit over 200km/h. I would hazard a guess that even a 4-5mm stainless steel plate would be wrecked by that?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 12, 2015, 10:17:03 pm
Guys - the purpose of this thread was not to start a "dog-fight" and/or some brand bashing - each to his own ...
As I'm the only witness (and my boy) to this "incident", I can only say what I've seen - as I was driving past the first thing I saw was rather large pieces of rubber lying on the road surface - my first thought was it's just rubber from another truck-tyre that blew - a regular sight on our roads...  ::)
It was only when I stopped at this guy after turning around - that I've realized it's actually pieces of bike-tyre I've seen!  :o My guesstimate is that the rubber debris was positioned about 200-300m from where the bike came to a halt.
What you do not see in the pics is his standard new BMW topbox - since he had already removed it to use as a chair while waiting - now belief it or not - the topbox was cracked quite severely from the flying rubber too!!  :o :o
Let it thus just be a reminder to all of us (no matter which brand you ride) of another possible danger hiding underneath us while sometimes doing insane speeds ...  :thumleft:
Be safe - be careful !!!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 12, 2015, 10:28:34 pm
It perhaps begs the question, does a D/S bike need to be this fast?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2wdrift on April 12, 2015, 10:38:06 pm
It perhaps begs the question, does a D/S bike need to be this fast?

Absolutely not. No bike NEEDS to be this fast. But some of us idiots do WANT it to be this fast
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Rough Rider on April 13, 2015, 08:05:26 am
If you want to go fast buy a Superbike
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 08:47:08 am
This thread was doomed at the start with so called oumanne spewing crap like I would insist on a new bike ETC add to that people speculating with no formal understanding on what happens to tyres at speed and different inflations posting a whole ream of uneducated pushing of what they feel is the fault. What is hilarious is the proof and facts that seem to come out the wood work. Most of what has been posted here is utter drivel used to incite anger in the troll's by troll's.

1. IT IS NOT THE BIKES FAULT
2. IT IS NOT THE TYRES FAULT
3. IT IS NOT THE MANUFACTURES FAULT
4. IF YOU HAVE TO LAY BLAME IT IS THE RIDERS FAULT. ALTHOUGH NOT INTENTIONAL.

All other speculations and drivel are side topics!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 13, 2015, 09:12:58 am
This thread was doomed at the start with so called oumanne spewing crap like I would insist on a new bike ETC add to that people speculating with no formal understanding on what happens to tyres at speed and different inflations posting a whole ream of uneducated pushing of what they feel is the fault. What is hilarious is the proof and facts that seem to come out the wood work. Most of what has been posted here is utter drivel used to incite anger in the troll's by troll's.

1. IT IS NOT THE BIKES FAULT
2. IT IS NOT THE TYRES FAULT
3. IT IS NOT THE MANUFACTURES FAULT
4. IF YOU HAVE TO LAY BLAME IT IS THE RIDERS FAULT. ALTHOUGH NOT INTENTIONAL.

All other speculations and drivel are side topics!

I won't blame the rider - none of us were with him on the bike to judge... Nobody buys a 200k bike and intentionally takes chances on the first voyage - well he didn't appear to be the kind at least...
It's a simple accident - and thank God just a replaceable bike was seriously "injured" !
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 09:22:00 am
This thread was doomed at the start with so called oumanne spewing crap like I would insist on a new bike ETC add to that people speculating with no formal understanding on what happens to tyres at speed and different inflations posting a whole ream of uneducated pushing of what they feel is the fault. What is hilarious is the proof and facts that seem to come out the wood work. Most of what has been posted here is utter drivel used to incite anger in the troll's by troll's.

1. IT IS NOT THE BIKES FAULT
2. IT IS NOT THE TYRES FAULT
3. IT IS NOT THE MANUFACTURES FAULT
4. IF YOU HAVE TO LAY BLAME IT IS THE RIDERS FAULT. ALTHOUGH NOT INTENTIONAL.

All other speculations and drivel are side topics!

I won't blame the rider - none of us were with him on the bike to judge... Nobody buys a 200k bike and intentionally takes chances on the first voyage - well he didn't appear to be the kind at least...
It's a simple accident - and thank God just a replaceable bike was seriously "injured" !

Thats why is said

IF YOU HAVE TO LAY BLAME IT IS THE RIDERS FAULT. ALTHOUGH NOT INTENTIONAL

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Rough Rider on April 13, 2015, 09:35:51 am
Insurance pays for rider error and/or error in judgement provided there is no gross negligence involved. Of course the term gross negligence is open to interpretation.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: ETS on April 13, 2015, 10:14:36 am
LIEWE


GOEIE


FOK


I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old. :sip:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 10:31:39 am
LIEWE


GOEIE


FOK


I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old. :sip:


The trick is "when the kak hits the fan stay calm and deal with facts" the rest is white noise. Just maybe those spewing the white noise will see the calm and realize it and like " look up and open up as the BMW boys love to say" in this case its "shut up and learn". As in both cases most dont learn this technique.

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: ETS on April 13, 2015, 10:43:52 am
LIEWE


GOEIE


FOK


I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old. :sip:


The trick is "when the kak hits the fan stay calm and deal with facts" the rest is white noise. Just maybe those spewing the white noise will see the calm and realize it and like " look up and open up as the BMW boys love to say" in this case its "shut up and learn". As in both cases most dont learn this technique.



 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: You too wiil get old. Me--WD's losing its magic.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 13, 2015, 10:51:33 am
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 10:51:41 am
LIEWE


GOEIE


FOK


I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old. :sip:


The trick is "when the kak hits the fan stay calm and deal with facts" the rest is white noise. Just maybe those spewing the white noise will see the calm and realize it and like " look up and open up as the BMW boys love to say" in this case its "shut up and learn". As in both cases most dont learn this technique.



 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: You too wiil get old. Me--WD's losing its magic.

That I agree with. Both points. Very sad indeed.  :(

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: whitedelight on April 13, 2015, 10:57:03 am
I cannot lay blame anywhere ,but I will never take another persons word that my tyre pressures are correct. I am anal about it. I once got my bike back that had just had a new front tyre put on it ,and i took it for granted the tyre pressure would be correct. I commuted in peak hour traffic for a few KM's before realising that something was horribly wrong. Pulled into a service station and tyre pressure was at 0,7 BAR.
Put air in and then it performed like a new tyre should. I check tyres before every ride,and on longer trips during the ride too, with my own gauges on not relying on the garage gauge ,which is usually out and calibrated ten years ago.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: ETS on April 13, 2015, 11:01:29 am
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 13, 2015, 11:05:37 am
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!

You too fucking old as you stated above.

It reminds me of a saying

"The older I get the better I think I was"  :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 13, 2015, 11:06:32 am
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!

Whaahhahahahahaa  :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 13, 2015, 04:00:01 pm
LIEWE


GOEIE


FOK


I cannot believe all the kak on this thread. I'm most probably just getting old. :sip:

Yes, I also could not believe the kak that bike had from a tyre. Yet you must still guard against feeling old before your time. :snorting:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Geriatrix on April 13, 2015, 05:20:59 pm
If the bike was moving at 180km/h the tyre would be moving at the same speed at its normal radius. If that radius increased by a third (due to delamination) you could be looking at a piece of rubber being flung around at a fair bit over 200km/h. I would hazard a guess that even a 4-5mm stainless steel plate would be wrecked by that?

The bit of tyre that is in contact with the road moves at 0km / hour ( it is in contact with the road ).

The hub travels at the speed of the bike.

The bit of tyre at the top is traveling at twice the speed of the bike.

If there is a bit of rubber attached to the tyre by a length of cord it is going faster.

I am sure that a bit of rubber would go through a lot of steel under those conditions.

An under inflated tyre would fragment rapidly at that speed.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Ian in Great Brak River on April 13, 2015, 05:52:30 pm
'squeeze me...'squeeze me ...

[/Somewhere about 100 pages back on this thread someone said "ZZ*&&%$"b]

...well, somebody got to stand up for Vespas round here ... :peepwall:

I blame XR for being in the right place at the wrong time... :ricky:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 13, 2015, 07:38:50 pm
If the bike was moving at 180km/h the tyre would be moving at the same speed at its normal radius. If that radius increased by a third (due to delamination) you could be looking at a piece of rubber being flung around at a fair bit over 200km/h. I would hazard a guess that even a 4-5mm stainless steel plate would be wrecked by that?

The bit of tyre that is in contact with the road moves at 0km / hour ( it is in contact with the road ).

The hub travels at the speed of the bike.

The bit of tyre at the top is traveling at twice the speed of the bike.

If there is a bit of rubber attached to the tyre by a length of cord it is going faster.

I am sure that a bit of rubber would go through a lot of steel under those conditions.

An under inflated tyre would fragment rapidly at that speed.

That's correct, I'm impressed that a doctor understands this!  O0 :thumleft:

Most people that I've tried to explain this to don't believe me  :biggrin:

The tyre actually rotates around the instantaneous point of zero velocity which is the contact point on the tar, the axle is moving (rotating around that point of zero velocity) forwards at the speed of the vehicle, and the top of the (unburst) tyre is actually doing twice the speed of the car in the forward direction (being twice the distance of  the axle from the point of rotation).

Of course if the tyre delaminates then any bits extending out further go proportionally faster depending on how far they extend out from the point of rotation.

So yes this gets ugly fast!

Which is why you see photo's of those wrecked cars.

I recon a pillion could easily be killed by a delaminating tyre at high speed, before the bike even crashes.

Very glad that wasnt the case here.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: DirtyHarry on April 13, 2015, 08:19:14 pm
Some clever okes on this forum. I am impressed.

Maybe we could also agree that it is not a good idea to push a new tyre from day one.
It would make sense to get a few heat cycles on a new tyre before you can take it safely to the max rated speed.
The correct tyre pressure is absolutely crucial if you take it to max speed.
Road surface and temperature also play a major role.
South African roads are not very kind to any tyre at the best of times.

The tacho on that bike shows 175km/hr. This was the speed when the wires got wrecked from the disintegrating tyre. Chances are the bike was a lot faster before that happened.

I would say this rider was in a hurry to get home with his new baby. He is very lucky to be alive.
I fail to see any fault from the bike manufacturer other than making these bikes go so damn fast.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 13, 2015, 08:30:45 pm
'squeeze me...'squeeze me ...

[/Somewhere about 100 pages back on this thread someone said "ZZ*&&%$"b]

...well, somebody got to stand up for Vespas round here ... :peepwall:

I blame XR for being in the right place at the wrong time... :ricky:

 :lol8:  :eek7:  :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 13, 2015, 08:32:18 pm
Wonder what the 1190 would look like if its tyre makes the same on 270kph!!!

Eish, as jy n pillion op gaan he, sal haar gat seker potblou gemoer wees.

Haar @@@@ sal voel of ek haar bygekom het!!

This type of sexist remark will in turn make WD's lose it's magic for some other forum members........something to think about? :pot:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: plaky on April 13, 2015, 09:05:14 pm
I have now read all 8 pages for my sins and see 2SD is wanting to let loose. I have had a good giggle at some of the chirps. I would like to make one observation, no one knows for a fact that this dude was doing 180km/h. Does XR have his details so we can actually find out, as it will settle a lot of the speculation. It is very eye opening that this can happen on a new set of tyres, who thinks of doing heat cycles and we should be warned to do this! Something I have never even considered and have been riding a bike for almost 40 years!
I saw that someone said that the speedo and rev counter can default to the top of the dials, I will give my chommies at Donford a ring in the morning and find this out. By the way I have load shedding(electrical) now and it has taken me 20 min to type this, thanx to Zooooma!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 13, 2015, 09:10:51 pm
I do not see "heatcycling" in F1, or on the IOM, the only thing to watch out for on a new tyre is the release compound after lifting it from the mould, and even that have never given me any moments.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2wdrift on April 14, 2015, 12:13:36 am
If the bike was moving at 180km/h the tyre would be moving at the same speed at its normal radius. If that radius increased by a third (due to delamination) you could be looking at a piece of rubber being flung around at a fair bit over 200km/h. I would hazard a guess that even a 4-5mm stainless steel plate would be wrecked by that?

The bit of tyre that is in contact with the road moves at 0km / hour ( it is in contact with the road ).

The hub travels at the speed of the bike.

The bit of tyre at the top is traveling at twice the speed of the bike.

If there is a bit of rubber attached to the tyre by a length of cord it is going faster.

I am sure that a bit of rubber would go through a lot of steel under those conditions.

An under inflated tyre would fragment rapidly at that speed.

I have tried explaining that to a few friends but have not been overly successful. So basically if a tyre were to delaminate at 100km/h and it extended a third further away from the hub/fulcrum it would be hitting the mudguard at a good 130km/h?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Geriatrix on April 14, 2015, 04:36:34 am
The tyre in contact with the road moves at 0km per hour.
The hub at 100km per hour.
The top of the tyre 200 km per hour
The extra bit is 1,3 times further from the hub so it will be moving at 260km per hour, provided that it hits nothing as it goes around, and can accelerate freely. I do not know how the actual path and speed can be measured.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 14, 2015, 08:14:50 am
I am no scientist or mathematician.  I do know one thing.  If that ever happens to my bike I would appreciate lots and lots of stuff between my posterior, inclusive of other soft bits, and that piece of tire!     :eek7:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 14, 2015, 08:42:07 am
The tyre in contact with the road moves at 0km per hour.
The hub at 100km per hour.
The top of the tyre 200 km per hour
The extra bit is 1,3 times further from the hub so it will be moving at 260km per hour, provided that it hits nothing as it goes around, and can accelerate freely. I do not know how the actual path and speed can be measured.

So if the actual bike is moving at say 250kph, how fast will the tyre turn THEN?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Jakkals on April 14, 2015, 08:50:13 am

So if the actual bike is moving at say 250kph, how fast will the tyre turn THEN?
[/quote]

Baie viniger as wat jy kan dink. :biggrin:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Geriatrix on April 14, 2015, 08:53:02 am
The top of a normal tyre would be moving at 500km per hour compared to the road ( actually a little faster since the bottom of the tyre is usually slightly indented by the road, and the top is slightly pushed out by inertia and centripetal force, so the top is further from the hub than the bottom ).
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 14, 2015, 08:55:58 am
Can a GS1200WC actually do 180??

This is the question.

 :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: silvrav on April 14, 2015, 08:56:32 am
The tyre in contact with the road moves at 0km per hour.
The hub at 100km per hour.
The top of the tyre 200 km per hour
The extra bit is 1,3 times further from the hub so it will be moving at 260km per hour, provided that it hits nothing as it goes around, and can accelerate freely. I do not know how the actual path and speed can be measured.

my wife slaps at about 20km/h (rough estimate) so anything faster then that I really would want it to touch me  :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Geriatrix on April 14, 2015, 08:58:46 am
Can a GS1200WC actually do 180??

This is the question.

 :peepwall:


Yes, it has good brakes so with enough warning it can slow down to 180km / hour.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 14, 2015, 08:59:42 am
Can a GS1200WC actually do 180??

This is the question.

 :peepwall:


Yes, it has good brakes so with enough warning it can slow down to 180km / hour.

 :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 14, 2015, 09:02:14 am
One for you cleva boys


does the bike hang or push down on its spokes assuming it is a spoked rim.

 :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: ETS on April 14, 2015, 09:03:15 am
One for you cleva boys


does the bike hang or push down on its spokes assuming it is a spoked rim.

 :peepwall:

Hang. Duh
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Mr Zog on April 14, 2015, 09:03:21 am
One for you cleva boys


does the bike hang or push down on its spokes assuming it is a spoked rim.

 :peepwall:

It hangs...
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Geriatrix on April 14, 2015, 09:21:51 am
One for you cleva boys


does the bike hang or push down on its spokes assuming it is a spoked rim.

 :peepwall:

Cut the top spokes and see what happens.
Cut the bottom spokes and then see what happens.

Tell us, and we shall all know.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 14, 2015, 09:42:22 am
You already have two correct answers
  ;)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: GRIM on April 14, 2015, 10:46:17 am
My Physics lecturer would have a fit with all these simplifications...
 :deal:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Geriatrix on April 14, 2015, 10:54:27 am
My Physics lecturer would have a fit with all these simplifications...
 :deal:

I am sure that you are correct, but a decent explanation would take at least twenty pages, and offer little precision.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2wdrift on April 14, 2015, 11:14:11 am
The tyre in contact with the road moves at 0km per hour.
The hub at 100km per hour.
The top of the tyre 200 km per hour
The extra bit is 1,3 times further from the hub so it will be moving at 260km per hour, provided that it hits nothing as it goes around, and can accelerate freely. I do not know how the actual path and speed can be measured.

Yes I was referring to the impact of a loose piece of rubber. As the hub an bike are moving at the same speed the maximum speed at which the tyre could hit the mudguard would be around 130km/h.

Once you start thinking about exactly how this stuff works high speed becomes very much less inviting all of a sudden.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Geriatrix on April 14, 2015, 11:42:41 am
Do you mean the relative speed between the bike and bit of loose rubber?
To calculate that would depend upon so many factors and change so quickly during the revolution that the physics is way out of my league. It would be enough to hurt if it hits you.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 14, 2015, 11:52:01 am
My Physics lecturer would have a fit with all these simplifications...
 :deal:

That is why he is a physics lecturer and not a biker.   :ricky:

Now, the last time I passed physics was back in St. 7 and even then it was by a whisker.

Isn't rotational speed the thing here?  For the bike to move forward at 180km/h, the rear wheel must rotate at a certain speed and that speed is determined by the gear ratios.  Say the wheel turns at 6000 rpm and that piece comes loose, what force is in play?  That is apart from š moerofa force".
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: big t on April 14, 2015, 11:58:46 am
:(
it look to me like the tyre shredding like that  caused the electronis under the saddle to be totally destroyed.
unusual for a michelin anakee :)Donford will sort it no problem but i think Michelin will have some liability considering the bike only ha 600 km on the clock
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: GRIM on April 14, 2015, 12:18:26 pm
Just for shits and giggles, and very approximately:

a 100g chunk of tyre, rotating 40cm from the axle, travelling at a linear speed of 180km/h (i.e. the bike is travelling at 180km/h) will have a force equivalent of 63kg.

Rotating systems store a lot of energy, and are generally not pretty when they go wrong.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: GRIM on April 14, 2015, 12:23:17 pm
And if I pick up a new bike, and it destroys itself on the way home, I would expect a huge amount of goodwill from the dealer. A new bike would definitely be on my list of expectations.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 14, 2015, 12:26:54 pm
My Physics lecturer would have a fit with all these simplifications...
 :deal:

That is why he is a physics lecturer and not a biker.   :ricky:

Now, the last time I passed physics was back in St. 7 and even then it was by a whisker.

Isn't rotational speed the thing here?  For the bike to move forward at 180km/h, the rear wheel must rotate at a certain speed and that speed is determined by the gear ratios.  Say the wheel turns at 6000 rpm and that piece comes loose, what force is in play?  That is apart from š moerofa force".

Dont confuse 3 very different things that all play a part in moving the scoot forward

1. Force
2. RPM
3. speed (rotational and directional)

To answer your question it will depend on the size of the piece of rubber that comes loose

Force = mass x acceleration

plus you would have to assume that there are no external forces playing on the mass and that the acceleration is constant ( and I dont think it is).

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 14, 2015, 12:44:10 pm

Dont confuse 3 very different things that all play a part in moving the scoot forward

1. Force
2. RPM
3. speed (rotational and directional)

To answer your question it will depend on the size of the piece of rubber that comes loose

Force = mass x acceleration

plus you would have to assume that there are no external forces playing on the mass and that the acceleration is constant ( and I dont think it is).



I can't confuse anything.  I last passed physics in St 7, remember?  I don't know enough to confuse these forces.

What I do know is when I cast a lead weight and a sardine fillet into the sea, it goes a heck of a lot further, the faster the tip of the rods travels, or if cast by a longer rod at the same speed. 
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Bundu on April 14, 2015, 12:45:39 pm
I think the problem is actually the kinetic energy that the piece of rubber possesses and that energy is turned into 'work' when it hits something

Ek=0.5 x m x (v)^2

so speed plays a big role
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Coala on April 14, 2015, 01:41:19 pm
Here is the only equation that really matters:

1/2 cup of OMO to 1 pair of dirty underwear.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 14, 2015, 03:59:01 pm
Another way of looking at this is:

Relative to the biker who is travelling on the bike, the wheel is not rotating around its contact point on the road,  but its axle, as one would intuitively expect.  Therefore while the top of the tyre is doing twice the speed of the vehicle relative to someone standing stationary on the side of the road, the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.

As far as force and stress goes:

Lets say a 2kg lump of rubber is doing 180km/h

And it hit something and stops completely in say 100ms (complete guess) then you can work out the deceleration  needed to do that from

V2 = V1 + a T

From that you can work out the force exerted by the rubber on what ever it hits which is simple F= m a

So that would give you

a = 180 /(3.6 *0.1) = 500 m/s2

thus force = 500 * 2 = 1000N  which equivalent to roughly 100kg

If the rubber happens to hit edge-on then that force is absorbed by a small area lets  guess and say 2 cm x 1 cm  = .0002 m2

So the stress exerted would be 1000/0.0002 = 5 MPa which should not cause steel to fail  :thumleft:

Just a quick thumbsuck   :P

Of course it all depends on lots of different things (eg the calc's above assume a loose piece of rubber flying through the air that stops when it hits something, not a flap of rubber hanging off the wheel, that is being driven by the bike's engine which obviously means you need to include the bike's torque and momentum into the calc)

Which ever way you look at it, this could get very nasty for anyone nearby those flying bits of rubber.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Snafu on April 14, 2015, 11:09:50 pm
So, anyone know the cause yet, i heard the tyre picked up something from the road?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: lecap on April 16, 2015, 08:43:11 am
Good grief did they teach you not to leave your common sense in your lunch box when tackling physics?

Do you know what happens to a bike when you try to rotate it at 6.000rpm ???

Do you realise that you should always use a value of m/s as "v"  in your formulas? Same as for mass always use values in g then you will indeed have results in N ::)
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Moondog on April 16, 2015, 10:26:34 am
Good grief did they teach you not to leave your common sense in your lunch box when tackling physics?

Do you know what happens to a bike when you try to rotate it at 6.000rpm ???

Do you realise that you should always use a value of m/s as "v"  in your formulas? Same as for mass always use values in g then you will indeed have results in N ::)

Yep - 'Speed' does not equal 'Velocity' as Velocity has a direction component.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Jughead on April 16, 2015, 10:53:46 am
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 16, 2015, 11:26:52 am
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.

The centre of the wheel, the axle, is doing the same speed as the bike.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Bundu on April 16, 2015, 11:36:38 am
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.

No, I think he's saying if the bike is doing 100, the top of the wheel is doing 100 relative to the bike, or 200 relative to the road
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Grrrr.... on April 16, 2015, 11:57:02 am
I blame Jan.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Jughead on April 16, 2015, 12:07:55 pm
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.

No, I think he's saying if the bike is doing 100, the top of the wheel is doing 100 relative to the bike, or 200 relative to the road

It can't!  The axle is doing the same speed relative to the bike.  The outside of the wheel is rotating around the axle so can impossibly be travelling at the same speed.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 16, 2015, 12:39:50 pm
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.

OK

Remember I'm talking about the speed of the tyre REALTIVE to the rider/bike.  The axle is connected to the bike, and moves along with the bike, so relative to bike/rider its velocity is zero (ignoring suspension movements )- so in that case the wheel is rotating around that point (remember to work out what is the point of rotation in complex situations you need to remember that the only point on a rotating body which has zero velocity is the axis of rotation, everything else is moving).

So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: silvrav on April 16, 2015, 12:57:11 pm
So, has anyone been able to make contact with the gentleman to hear his side of the story.....  :patch:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 16, 2015, 12:58:38 pm
Good grief did they teach you not to leave your common sense in your lunch box when tackling physics?

Do you know what happens to a bike when you try to rotate it at 6.000rpm ???

Do you realise that you should always use a value of m/s as "v"  in your formulas? Same as for mass always use values in g then you will indeed have results in N ::)

Um ja whatever
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 16, 2015, 01:02:20 pm
So, has anyone been able to make contact with the gentleman to hear his side of the story.....  :patch:

I would also love to hear the outcome, but I am sure his insurance will cover the damages
It would be rather interesting to hear what that set his insurance back, I think more than a R100K!

Pity the rest of the thread and so many other threads as I noticed get stirred upside down by the 'Senior 2Stroke drol'
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Jughead on April 16, 2015, 01:20:28 pm
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 16, 2015, 01:25:36 pm
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

We're both actually saying the same thing, obviously my English is letting me down or something.

The key point is that REALTIVE to the rider the top of the wheel is moving.  Which you in fact understand.

It is moving at the speed of the bike relative to the rider.  ie if you measure the speed relative to your self while sitting on the bike you would measure a speed that equaled the speed you see on the speedo in front of you.

If you measured the speed of the axle relative to yourself you would measure a speed of zero, because it is moving at the same speed as you are.

I cant think of any other way to say it.

I'm sorry that my english isnt good enough to explain better.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: silvrav on April 16, 2015, 01:53:22 pm
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

yes, in simple terms, if the tyre was moving the same speed in relativeness to the rider it means the tyre is moving the same speed as the bike, which means you not going anywhere as the speed/friction from the speed onto mother earth is what makes you move....

now stop arguing, go ride and drink a beer  :pot:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Jughead on April 16, 2015, 02:02:20 pm
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

yes, in simple terms, if the tyre was moving the same speed in relativeness to the rider it means the tyre is moving the same speed as the bike, which means you not going anywhere as the speed/friction from the speed onto mother earth is what makes you move....

now stop arguing, go ride and drink a beer  :pot:

Ok oom!   :biggrin:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: konrad on April 16, 2015, 02:12:28 pm
Personally I think he is going to have a tough time convincing the insurance they are liable for any damage and that includes any claim towards the dealer. As somebody already commented, any possible damage claim was doomed from the word go. To go and post photos for the world to see, including dealer and insurance, that at time of incident he was doing 180km/h just created a hole for the owner/rider of bike, bigger than the Kimberley hole. The riders manual specifically stipulates the maximum rev,s etc before the 1000km service and any insurance company in light of speed involved, will repudiate the claim.
Lesson hopefully learned, donít allow people to post photos on the internet that will sink your claim quicker that the titanic went down.


Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Bundu on April 16, 2015, 02:15:21 pm
Personally I think he is going to have a tough time convincing the insurance they are liable for any damage and that includes any claim towards the dealer. As somebody already commented, any possible damage claim was doomed from the word go. To go and post photos for the world to see, including dealer and insurance, that at time of incident he was doing 180km/h just created a hole for the owner/rider of bike, bigger than the Kimberley hole. The riders manual specifically stipulates the maximum rev,s etc before the 1000km service and any insurance company in light of speed involved, will repudiate the claim.
Lesson hopefully learned, donít allow people to post photos on the internet that will sink your claim quicker that the titanic went down.




I doubt that has or will be proven
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: IceCreamMan on April 16, 2015, 02:20:10 pm
the top of the tyre is only doing the same speed as the vehicle with respect to the biker or the bike.


 ???

How on earth can the top of the tyre be doing the same speed as the bike?  Please explain.


So relative to the bike/rider, the top of the tyre is moving forward at the same speed as the bike.

You can verify this easily:  While riding you can grab the axle bolt (if you have long double jointed arms) and it wont be moving relative to you.  But try grab the top of the tyre while moving - you will notice that it is moving relative to you at quite a high velocity, which will be the same speed as the bike - that's what I am referring to.

The distinction is important because the delaminating tyre whacked the bike, not a passer by who was standing stationary on the side of the road, hence the need to discern between relative velocities.

You're not making sense here boet!

The rider can reach down and grab the axle bolt since the rider and bike and axle are moving at the same speed relative to each other.

Surely if the outside of the wheel was travelling at the same speed relative to the bike and rider, the rider would be able to grab hold of the outside of the wheel while riding.

If you could actually grab hold of the front wheel while riding and maintain the purchase, the wheel would pull you over the handlebars.  Why?  Because the top of the wheel is travelling forward far faster than you are. 

Since you and the bike are travelling at the same speed, the top of the wheel HAS TO be travelling faster than the bike (relative to anything).

yes, in simple terms, if the tyre was moving the same speed in relativeness to the rider it means the tyre is moving the same speed as the bike, which means you not going anywhere as the speed/friction from the speed onto mother earth is what makes you move....

now stop arguing, go ride and drink a beer  :pot:

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TheBear on April 16, 2015, 02:24:50 pm

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: silvrav on April 16, 2015, 02:27:54 pm

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!

exactly....never seen a GS12...must be very small though.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 16, 2015, 02:43:47 pm
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 16, 2015, 03:17:32 pm
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)



.....................BMW........for never failing to amuse with their unique style of breakdowns. :pot:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: OomD on April 16, 2015, 03:25:22 pm
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)



.....................BMW........for never failing to amuse with their unique style of breakdowns. :pot:

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TCS on April 16, 2015, 03:46:50 pm
Heat build up is the cause for the failure.... Riding 180km/h at lets say 2 bar on a hot day will destroy the tyre.

The tread edges are still on the carcass, if it was a factory fault let say a curing problem or so the complete tread will be gone.

This is an insurance claim neither BMW or Michelin is responsible.

I wish i could could inspect the tyre the cause of the problem will be there .....
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2wdrift on April 16, 2015, 03:52:47 pm
Personally I think he is going to have a tough time convincing the insurance they are liable for any damage and that includes any claim towards the dealer. As somebody already commented, any possible damage claim was doomed from the word go. To go and post photos for the world to see, including dealer and insurance, that at time of incident he was doing 180km/h just created a hole for the owner/rider of bike, bigger than the Kimberley hole. The riders manual specifically stipulates the maximum rev,s etc before the 1000km service and any insurance company in light of speed involved, will repudiate the claim.
Lesson hopefully learned, donít allow people to post photos on the internet that will sink your claim quicker that the titanic went down.




I doubt that has or will be proven

+1

The wiring was torn open and frayed leading to who knows how many mixed signals to the ecu and by default the speedometer and rev counter.
He might have been going very fast or maybe not, anyhow there is no evidence to base a claim about speed on. I dont know about the damage though, it might be from 180 or 120...  ???
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 16, 2015, 06:11:55 pm
Yay we've reached the joke stage  :biggrin:

Congratulations to all who contributed.

Personally I would like to thank... ::)



.....................BMW........for never failing to amuse with their unique style of breakdowns. :pot:



Racism to call the statue-attackers monkeys. Jy word nou geban.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 16, 2015, 09:46:36 pm
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Bundu on April 16, 2015, 09:59:44 pm
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...

thanks for posting the story and it would be good to hear how it ends...... oh and fuck the people that criticize you
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Manic on April 16, 2015, 10:33:07 pm
I put the blame on Apartheid.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 16, 2015, 11:22:17 pm
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...

thanks for posting the story and it would be good to hear how it ends...... oh and fuck the people that criticize you

Yes thanks for posting, it will make the sensible and sane more alert and focus on safety - in this case tyre pressure
Who knows, this thread might end up saving some lives because people will be more conscious
Please do keep us posted on the outcome if you get feedback
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Ian in Great Brak River on April 16, 2015, 11:29:06 pm
I can just imagine the discussion about relative speed if I had thrown the Tank track action into the mix ... you know, bottom half standing still whilst the top half is doing twice the bike's velocity to catch up ... but decided I would rather not mention the Tank track action ... so I woun't.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TCS on April 17, 2015, 06:55:49 am
OK - so it seems that according to some people I'm now the pig in the fairy tale...  :lol8:
Fot the record - I had this guy's (De Waal) permission to post this thread - but after seeing this "show", I'm sure he won't be joining us any time soon!!!  ::)
I will try and get to the rest of the story from BMW in George - but I'm sure some dogs here are way better connected than me....  :biggrin:
For the record - neither him or me has anything to hide from the insurance or any other party...  :deal:
So bring on the accusations .... use any formula you like!
If you can't handle the "softness" of the new BMW's - seek help...

thanks for posting the story and it would be good to hear how it ends...... oh and fuck the people that criticize you

Yes thanks for posting, it will make the sensible and sane more alert and focus on safety - in this case tyre pressure
Who knows, this thread might end up saving some lives because people will be more conscious
Please do keep us posted on the outcome if you get feedback
:thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 17, 2015, 09:10:27 am
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 17, 2015, 09:16:17 am
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:

Thank You  :biggrin:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 17, 2015, 09:28:26 am
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: HB 9 on April 17, 2015, 09:36:56 am
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:

At last - lesson learned  :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: XRRX on April 17, 2015, 09:38:56 am
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: whitedelight on April 17, 2015, 10:27:50 am
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: TheBear on April 17, 2015, 10:35:06 am
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??

Never repair a puncture on the side wall.  However it hurts, buy a new tire.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: XRRX on April 17, 2015, 10:59:00 am
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??

No - seemed to have been in the middle of the thread area...

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 17, 2015, 11:01:51 am
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??


No !!!!!!


A gator is used to fix on the inside of the tyre on the tread area. Never on a side wall. A gator is like a hard patch. It cannot take much flex and will come off if fitted to a side wall

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 17, 2015, 11:22:01 am
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....

I disagree on the no low pressure or no slow puncture. The tyre tells a different story.

A tyre cannot delaminate in the way shown on the pictures unless there was heat build up and heat cannot build up with a correctly inflated tyre.

Air in a tyre amongst others does two important things

1. Keeps the tyre up. ( we all know this )
2. Keeps the tyre cool. ( very important )

If the pressure drops too low for the conditions it will start heating up.

As per normal science if the tyre starts heating up the air particles get more active and are further apart. This is not good as two things are happening

1. The air is getting hotter and the tyre also
2.  The Pressure in the tyre is also increasing

Now if this is not rectified the process becomes a chain reaction.

the more the tyre warms up, the more the air warms up, the further the air particles are apart, the less the air can cool and the more the pressure increases.

To a point where two things can happen

1. The tyre gets so hot it delaminates and goes flat quickly
2. Blow out.

There is more physics in the above but basically what happens is.

1. Puncture of some sorts ( a valve or bead leak or physical puncture)
2. Pressure drops
3. Tyres starts getting hot
4. pressure increases
5. Tyre gets hotter
6. Pressure increases more
7. Cycle carries unnoticed
8. Bang!!!!!!!!

SLOW LEAKS A DANGEROUS AND ARE ALMOST ALWAYS UNNOTICED. ( More so on tubeless tyres)


Give me a quick flat any day so i can fix it and move on. ( Happens more on tubed tyres)




Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 17, 2015, 11:25:58 am
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??

No - seemed to have been in the middle of the thread area...




Point of blow out.

And yes could have been aggravated by the puncture and gator as that is now the weak point and as a result will be where the blow out is most likely to accure.

Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: Bundu on April 17, 2015, 11:29:35 am
with most/many bikes now having pressure sensors installed in the tyre, I wonder why they don't just add a temp sensor to monitor temp as well?  ???
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: OomD on April 17, 2015, 11:54:22 am
Well I've learnt something from this, thanks for the feedback XRRX.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 17, 2015, 12:12:08 pm
Well I've learnt something from this, thanks for the feedback XRRX.

Yes, and many of us learned from this
Great thread
Thanks
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: TCS on April 17, 2015, 12:25:08 pm
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....

I disagree on the no low pressure or no slow puncture. The tyre tells a different story.

A tyre cannot delaminate in the way shown on the pictures unless there was heat build up and heat cannot build up with a correctly inflated tyre.

Air in a tyre amongst others does two important things

1. Keeps the tyre up. ( we all know this )
2. Keeps the tyre cool. ( very important )

If the pressure drops too low for the conditions it will start heating up.

As per normal science if the tyre starts heating up the air particles get more active and are further apart. This is not good as two things are happening

1. The air is getting hotter and the tyre also
2.  The Pressure in the tyre is also increasing

Now if this is not rectified the process becomes a chain reaction.

the more the tyre warms up, the more the air warms up, the further the air particles are apart, the less the air can cool and the more the pressure increases.

To a point where two things can happen

1. The tyre gets so hot it delaminates and goes flat quickly
2. Blow out.

There is more physics in the above but basically what happens is.

1. Puncture of some sorts ( a valve or bead leak or physical puncture)
2. Pressure drops
3. Tyres starts getting hot
4. pressure increases
5. Tyre gets hotter
6. Pressure increases more
7. Cycle carries unnoticed
8. Bang!!!!!!!!

SLOW LEAKS A DANGEROUS AND ARE ALMOST ALWAYS UNNOTICED. ( More so on tubeless tyres)


Give me a quick flat any day so i can fix it and move on. ( Happens more on tubed tyres)





I Agree 100%
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: alanB on April 17, 2015, 12:44:14 pm
I dropped in at BMW this morning in George - and I must say I was really impressed by their friendliness & professionalism!!! They even thanked me for assisting the guy!  :thumleft: :thumleft: to BMW!
Out of respect towards them and the owner of the bike I'm not going to go into any details....
All I can say is that the damages to the 1200 is more or less enough to buy a new 800 GS !  :o
And then to the reason everybody has been speculating about - in short:
The tyre got punctured on the way from Cape Town, and was repaired by a "small town" tyre fitment centre - apparently incorrectly and weakening the casing in the process. It literally just blew more or less 200km later at the exact same "repaired spot"! And remember - it was on a hot summer day on the black stuff....
AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO ALL OF US - ESPECIALLY ON TUBELESS TYRES AND HYPER DS BIKES !!!  :deal:
F
Thank You  :biggrin:

Thank you mate, just as per my origional post: (caused by heat because of low tyre pressure)
A lot of people have learned from this thread, and for some other just a confirmation an a reminder to always check the tyre pressure and to be careful for plugging holes and continue at speed
Many holes are just to big to be plugged and some holes will damage and cut the tyre to the extend where it is too dangerous to use a plug.
I recall a superbike incident on the highway once where I assisted a guy.
Hole got plugged on the rear and he had a blow out a couple of km' dow the higway.
Luckly also survived but superbike wrote off

Thanks once again for this thread-it might safe a life in future

 :thumleft: Remember - it just blew - NO warning of low pressure - so no "slow puncture"! It was repaired with that method (sorry - I'm no expert) where they grind the tyre on the inside to fit a gator or whatever - think they might have grind too much - thus weakening the structure of the tyre....

I disagree on the no low pressure or no slow puncture. The tyre tells a different story.

A tyre cannot delaminate in the way shown on the pictures unless there was heat build up and heat cannot build up with a correctly inflated tyre.

Air in a tyre amongst others does two important things

1. Keeps the tyre up. ( we all know this )
2. Keeps the tyre cool. ( very important )

If the pressure drops too low for the conditions it will start heating up.

As per normal science if the tyre starts heating up the air particles get more active and are further apart. This is not good as two things are happening

1. The air is getting hotter and the tyre also
2.  The Pressure in the tyre is also increasing

Now if this is not rectified the process becomes a chain reaction.

the more the tyre warms up, the more the air warms up, the further the air particles are apart, the less the air can cool and the more the pressure increases.

To a point where two things can happen

1. The tyre gets so hot it delaminates and goes flat quickly
2. Blow out.

There is more physics in the above but basically what happens is.

1. Puncture of some sorts ( a valve or bead leak or physical puncture)
2. Pressure drops
3. Tyres starts getting hot
4. pressure increases
5. Tyre gets hotter
6. Pressure increases more
7. Cycle carries unnoticed
8. Bang!!!!!!!!

SLOW LEAKS A DANGEROUS AND ARE ALMOST ALWAYS UNNOTICED. ( More so on tubeless tyres)


Give me a quick flat any day so i can fix it and move on. ( Happens more on tubed tyres)






Heat does destroy tyres no doubt about it!  You see this often in the 4x4 forum with guys dropping their tyre pressures and then forgetting to pump them back up again before setting off at high speed when back on tar.

Just a quick slightly pedantic point on an interesting topic though - the heating mechanism is due to the underinflated tyre flexing excessively on each rotation, mostly at the side walls - as the rubber gets bent back and forth, it heats up from internal friction.  This heat has to be dissipated throughout the tyre on each rotation, mostly by cooling from the air flowing over the tyre.  If that cooling effect is not enough to dissipate the heat from the last rotation then more heat gets added on each subsequent rotation and you get an accumulation of heat which just keeps increasing.

Essentially more heat is being added than taken away via cooling on each rotation.  

So if the tyre is not being cooled enough on each rotation, then at high revs the tyre temp can quickly rise to very high levels which are beyond the mechanical limits of the rubber.

The internal air inside the tyre is not the heating mechanism, in fact as that air gets hotter (from contact with the hot tyre) the air pressure inside the tyre will increase and alleviate the problem slightly (by making the tyre firmer and thus allow less flex on each rotation), but obviously if the tyre pressure started too low, this effect may not be enough to stop the overall thermal run away.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: IceCreamMan on April 17, 2015, 01:04:03 pm

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!

exactly....never seen a GS12...must be very small though.

I would imagine the centre of gravity is lower when the tyre is flat though
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: Hans Ambulans on April 17, 2015, 01:18:53 pm
Dont feel bad about sharing this post...not AT all . This was very informative. I personally took a few mental notes here, and I am sure a lot of other people too!
As far as the bickering is concerned....how can you blame APARTHEID for this?!!! It was all JAN VAN RIEBEECKS fault!
Gosh.....ek sukkel met julle.....
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC ...
Post by: silvrav on April 17, 2015, 02:15:07 pm

when is the centre of gravity lower, when one is standing on a GS12 or when one is sitting on a GS12?



Don't fall for this trick question.  There is no such thing as a GS12!

exactly....never seen a GS12...must be very small though.

I would imagine the centre of gravity is lower when the tyre is flat though

ok ok, to answer, when one is standing....
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: Geriatrix on April 17, 2015, 02:17:15 pm
A gator is usually used in the sidewall to repair a puncture. Was the initial damage to the tyre in the sidewall??


No !!!!!!


A gator is used to fix on the inside of the tyre on the tread area. Never on a side wall. A gator is like a hard patch. It cannot take much flex and will come off if fitted to a side wall



YES!! NO!!!
Both correct and wrong.
Gaiters  are hard, and should not be used to repair a tyre. They are not patches, which are soft enough to be stuck to a tyre and becomes part of the rubber.
They are placed between a tube and a hole in the tyre to prevent the tube from pushing out through the hole ( which is why they are hard ). They are too hard to be glued to the tyre as a repair, but are short term emergency devices. Even when used in hard truck tyres the tyre should be replaced at the very first opportunity.

If a tyre has a sidewall hole it must be replaced as a matter of urgency, if it has a small hole in the tread it can be repaired with a plug or even better a mushroom plug inserted from the inside ( the wax on the tyre must be removed first ). The standard recommendation is that the tyre must be replaced as soon as possible. As far as I know in the European Union it is illegal to ride on a tyre that has been repaired in any way.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: HB 9 on April 17, 2015, 07:59:23 pm
Please compare this thread...

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=170787.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=170787.0) 

and re think one's own opinions...
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 20, 2015, 08:44:42 am
Please compare this thread...

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=170787.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=170787.0) 

and re think one's own opinions...


Too tired to start this whole discussion on another thread.

Guys must do what they wish. The above posts where informative and mostly based on facts. Tyres and the palm size contact with the road keep you alive any repair can compromise a tyre and should therefore be watched carefully post repair. If there is any doubt replace ASAP. If you dont your family will agree that your life is worth far more than a tyre. Travel safe.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: Jughead on April 20, 2015, 09:55:39 am
Please compare this thread...

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=170787.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=170787.0) 

and re think one's own opinions...


Too tired to start this whole discussion on another thread.

Guys must do what they wish. The above posts where informative and mostly based on facts. Tyres and the palm size contact with the road keep you alive any repair can compromise a tyre and should therefore be watched carefully post repair. If there is any doubt replace ASAP. If you dont your family will agree that your life is worth far more than a tyre. Travel safe.

Only some families!  :pot:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: Big Show on May 11, 2015, 05:54:13 am
Ok, so I can assume that the insurance settled this claim as the bike is now for sale at a salvage yard.

Might be a good buy for someone
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 11, 2015, 07:05:14 am
You are never too old too learn or see new things. A bike bursting a rear tyre, not crashing, now finds itself in a salvage yard, a wreck with only 600kms on it.

Should a burst rear tyre be able to reduce a R200 000 motorcycle to scrap?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: DirtRebell on May 11, 2015, 07:10:06 am
You are never too old too learn or see new things. A bike bursting a rear tyre, not crashing, now finds itself in a salvage yard, a wreck with only 600kms on it.

Should a burst rear tyre be able to reduce a R200 000 motorcycle to scrap?

Jinne Dan, hoeveel lyne het jy op enige gegewe tyd in die water?
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 11, 2015, 07:16:27 am
You are never too old too learn or see new things. A bike bursting a rear tyre, not crashing, now finds itself in a salvage yard, a wreck with only 600kms on it.

Should a burst rear tyre be able to reduce a R200 000 motorcycle to scrap?

Jinne Dan, hoeveel lyne het jy op enige gegewe tyd in die water?


Hierdie is nie n lyn in die water nie, net n vraag of n D/S bike dan so sag gebou behoort te word? Ek het al n hele paar fietse gesien wat teen baie hoe spoed bande
gebars het, en dit is die eerste keer wat ek die tipe van skade sien.
BMW self behoort hierdie fiets vir die eienaar vervang het, en nie die versekering nie. Dis mos nie die versekering wat hom so kak gebou het nie? :3some:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: HB 9 on May 11, 2015, 07:38:14 am
Ok, so I can assume that the insurance settled this claim as the bike is now for sale at a salvage yard.

Might be a good buy for someone

 ???
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: DirtRebell on May 11, 2015, 07:41:10 am
You are never too old too learn or see new things. A bike bursting a rear tyre, not crashing, now finds itself in a salvage yard, a wreck with only 600kms on it.

Should a burst rear tyre be able to reduce a R200 000 motorcycle to scrap?

Jinne Dan, hoeveel lyne het jy op enige gegewe tyd in die water?


Hierdie is nie n lyn in die water nie, net n vraag of n D/S bike dan so sag gebou behoort te word? Ek het al n hele paar fietse gesien wat teen baie hoe spoed bande
gebars het, en dit is die eerste keer wat ek die tipe van skade sien.
BMW self behoort hierdie fiets vir die eienaar vervang het, en nie die versekering nie. Dis mos nie die versekering wat hom so kak gebou het nie? :3some:


Ek het nie gesÍ ek stry met jou nie  :3some:
Net gevra oor jou lyne.  :deal:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 11, 2015, 07:44:42 am
You are never too old too learn or see new things. A bike bursting a rear tyre, not crashing, now finds itself in a salvage yard, a wreck with only 600kms on it.

Should a burst rear tyre be able to reduce a R200 000 motorcycle to scrap?

Jinne Dan, hoeveel lyne het jy op enige gegewe tyd in die water?


Hierdie is nie n lyn in die water nie, net n vraag of n D/S bike dan so sag gebou behoort te word? Ek het al n hele paar fietse gesien wat teen baie hoe spoed bande
gebars het, en dit is die eerste keer wat ek die tipe van skade sien.
BMW self behoort hierdie fiets vir die eienaar vervang het, en nie die versekering nie. Dis mos nie die versekering wat hom so kak gebou het nie? :3some:


Ek het nie gesÍ ek stry met jou nie  :3some:
Net gevra oor jou lyne.  :deal:

 :imaposer: :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: TheBear on May 11, 2015, 01:16:40 pm
You are never too old too learn or see new things. A bike bursting a rear tyre, not crashing, now finds itself in a salvage yard, a wreck with only 600kms on it.

Should a burst rear tyre be able to reduce a R200 000 motorcycle to scrap?

Dan, the whole population of the world, even those who have never seen a bike, accepted that the GS is the worst piece of shit ever build  Maybe it is time you come to terms with the fact?   :imaposer:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 11, 2015, 03:07:42 pm
You are never too old too learn or see new things. A bike bursting a rear tyre, not crashing, now finds itself in a salvage yard, a wreck with only 600kms on it.

Should a burst rear tyre be able to reduce a R200 000 motorcycle to scrap?

Dan, the whole population of the world, even those who have never seen a bike, accepted that the GS is the worst piece of shit ever build  Maybe it is time you come to terms with the fact?   :imaposer:

No I actually think some of the old British bikes might have been worse. :ricky:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on May 11, 2015, 03:13:22 pm
I think its disgusting that this bike has been written off. Easily fixed I am sure. Someone will make money in this insurance transaction.

I also think that the heavy handed insurance quotes dished out by the mechanics is also making our motorcycle insurance premiums so high.
IMHO!

 :-[
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 11, 2015, 03:18:13 pm
I think its disgusting that this bike has been written off. Easily fixed I am sure. Someone will make money in this insurance transaction.

I also think that the heavy handed insurance quotes dished out by the mechanics is also making our motorcycle insurance premiums so high.
IMHO!

 :-[


Absolutely!!
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: VaalBaas on May 11, 2015, 05:08:05 pm
I think its disgusting that this bike has been written off. Easily fixed I am sure. Someone will make money in this insurance transaction.

I also think that the heavy handed insurance quotes dished out by the mechanics is also making our motorcycle insurance premiums so high.
IMHO!

 :-[


Absolutely!!

Sooo, my post way back was not to far fetched.  I've been there :thumleft:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: DRAZIL on May 11, 2015, 05:16:49 pm
I think its disgusting that this bike has been written off. Easily fixed I am sure. Someone will make money in this insurance transaction.

I also think that the heavy handed insurance quotes dished out by the mechanics is also making our motorcycle insurance premiums so high.
IMHO!

 :-[


Wasn't BMW busted in Australia for something like this in the past
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: TheBear on May 11, 2015, 06:38:54 pm


Wasn't BMW busted in Australia for something like this in the past

No idea,  but this is most certainly not just a BMW thing.
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: HB 9 on May 12, 2015, 07:10:07 am
Please quote the thread where it states that the bike was written off...  :deal:

 for my peace of mind...  :peepwall:
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 12, 2015, 07:26:26 am


Wasn't BMW busted in Australia for something like this in the past

No idea,  but this is most certainly not just a BMW thing.

No, the insurance is also involved.......
Title: Re: "Bursting" the rear Michelin on a 600km young 1200GS LC - final chapter.
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on May 12, 2015, 08:32:43 am
Summed up the way I see it

1. Puncture takes place
2. Fixed (correctly or poorly you choose)
3. Blow out
4. Bike damaged to a degree (minor IMHO)
5. High quote from BMW ensuring a write off, also ensuring no consequential come backs
6. BMW sell another bike to the same owner. WHOOP WHOOP (note the sarcasm)
7. Insurance take bike and fix it to recover most of costs
8. Unsuspecting second hand buyer gets "Demo bike" or alike
9. As per the above the premiums go up on BMW (all) bikes as per the high risk of write off.
10. Everyone happy!!!!!!

I have no problem with a genuine write off where there are no questions that its Fooked but some of the above points raise some serious questions and smell distinctly rotten!