Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Sidecars => Topic started by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:00:40 am

Title: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:00:40 am
So for a few years I had this mad idea to get a sidecar on my bike. We old toppies are not getting younger, and we need the extra stability from time to time.

BUT !!!! I will not ride another BMW and nobody is interested in getting a sidecar on the Yamaha Super Tenere in South Africa.

So if I want one, I have to make one myself.

But one must crawl before you can run.

So a while back I purchased a sidecar project in PE.  Frame an glass fiber tub.  R900.00..... BARGAIN.
But I decided to put this on my old 1984 Honda XL 600 Dakar special first.  Just to see what it takes to get a sidecar on a bike before I venture into the BIG world.

Let us put this straight up from the beginning..... This current build is NOT PERFECT and a lot of things are against the EXPERTS, but for me she works.
I have ridden other sidecars before and this setup handles pretty well on the road.

We do not have adjustments on the current experiment... all the Toe-in and camber is calculated and build into the frame. But the big one on the XT1200 will be fully adjustable... trust me.

So after I got the tub, I purchased some 38x38 x 3mm square tubing for the frame.
Went to the Classic MMC in Germiston and got 21 inch front wheel.....remember this is a scrambler sidecar of sorts.

I got the basic frame together, but had no idea how to get it on the bike.

So the past Good Friday period we planned to go to Vryburg to visit my brother in law on the farm. I wanted to take Pierre's Xt 125 and the XL 600 with so that he could ride around on the farm ( by the way we had a ball riding the farm roads together).
But if I take the bike, I can just as well load the steel and parts and have my brother-in-law help me out.

So we set of getting the frame on the bike.  I told him about Toe-in, camber etc.
Putting the frame I made at home under the bike he quickly spotted where the mounting points could be.

Remove both footrests, remove the front bolt and 2 spacers holding the engine to the frame.
Turn 2 bigger spacers for the front.  Put them on the bike between the engine and frame.
Then weld some 5mm flat bar on the lot.
Same with the footrests....some 5mm flat bar, some holes and onto the frame.

Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Kykdaar on April 04, 2016, 09:04:20 am
sub
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:23:31 am
So now that we have the frame firmly attached to the bike it was time for the suspension.

So from surfing the web and seeing how Visarends suspension is done, I got the vesconite out...turned some bushes and told Johan THIS is how they do it.
But he scratched his head and told me straight out that it could not work.

Why not... that is how it is done on the rigs I have seen.

He being the practical person tried to explain to me that this L-shape frame jointed on two points need some sort of sideways movement. Well I did not have technical drawings at school and did not understand a thing what he was trying to tell me.

So we rigged up MY way...... WRONG !!! there is so much tension on the bolts going into the frame that a fixed bush type connection just will not work in the long run.

I wonder if this was not the problem on the Visarend karretjie when the front bolt snapped after his Gouda visit.

So we decided to go to plan "B".  I brought along some rose joints for the side struts, but they were 12mm...too small for his liking.

So on the phone to the Vryburg bearing place.  Do you have 16mm rose joints sir.... WHAT is that come back the reply.  After some explaining what this looks like he tell me YES man... I forgot that they are call that and I actually do have some in stock.  Cost us a trip into town, but at least we could stock up on some refreshments... it gets very hot in Vryburg on a farm....in the workshop building a sidecar.  :peepwall:

Sorted!!!  :laughing4:

Then Johan asked me how are we going to bolt this onto the frame..... ag man sommer weld a 16mm nut on the back of a 3mm washer...then weld this washer to the end of the square tubing..... NO !!!!! come the reply... not strong enough.

Maybe a windpomp socket will work... A WHAT.. I have this vision of a socket set being stripped to get my sidecar together.

So the boertjie goes and dig into his scrap pile and find 1 x 16mm windpomp ROD socket..... oooo that thing.  I have used 6 and 8 mm jointers as I called them before, but did not know you get them in 16mm.

So we test fit it, but is was too small to fit in the tube.

Welded some flat bar on two sided of this socket.  Grind them to fit snugly into the 38 square tubing and donderd them into place.  Some welding and now we have a strong nut with plenty of thread to screw the rose joint onto the frame.

Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:24:52 am
Poor man.  He was busy fixing up a Buffel to use as a fire truck on the farm, now he is building a stupid sidecar.

Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:46:57 am
Now remember this 1984 bike must still have its original rear shock in. After being driven through Africa it is now pretty pap. But it was OK and because I am not a riding god, I rode it like that.

But when it came to fitting a sidecar it causes new problems.

When the bike and the frame is standing normally without a rider on top, we put some LEAN angle into the bike... towards the sidecar.
We got the height of the sidecar wheel worked out and made the wheel hanger bracket.

Shock on en double check... yip some lean of the bike towards the sidecar... just like the books tell you to do it.

Ready Steady GO!!!!!

But fuck I took of and nearly donderd over to the right.

Now I had a little experience before riding a rig, but this thing was handling so badly, I could do no left turn and just could not control it.

Ja swaar said my swarrie.... when you planted your 115 kg dik gat on the bike that pap shock went down like the Titanic with the result that your lean towards the sidecar is now gone and the whole lot want to fall over to the right.... and I cannot get it to lean LEFT as the blerrie sidecar wheel is keeping it on the ground that far side.

So what to do.  No shock on the farm to replace this pap rear shock.
Adjust the sidecar wheel so in its free standing stance it leans more towards the sidecar. That meant a lot of grinding the lot loose, welding a piece on and re weld everything.
Once I am on the bike the lot levels out and now she tracks and rides like a dream.

So on with a piece of plywood clamped with g-clamps.
A bag of 50kg mealies on top of it and Pierre on top of the bag.  There we go.
Now I could handle her and she actually rides pretty well.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: zetman on April 04, 2016, 09:49:09 am
  :ricky: :ricky: :ricky:   Lekker Built
 Gooi Uncle  :patch:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:51:21 am
The shock is from Sweisies XJ900 that he bought.  One was leaking and the other one OK.  So onto my scrap build.

Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:55:44 am
So after 3 day's on the farm building and drinking we came back home to finis off the rest.
Found some rubber mountings and fitted the fiber glass tub to the frame.

She is still rough. with no screen, no paint and no seat, but that did not stop us from having a jol on the weekend.
Must say she really handles well on the tar road....even had 3 on her when the kids went out to buy some ice cream.

Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 09:57:08 am
We even had time for a brekkie at the Classic MCC in Germiston on Sunday.

Lekker to be with your sons.

Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 10:04:23 am
So now we have to sort out that shock on the bike.
Once that is done I can adjust the sidecar wheel height.... again
Then make a mudguard.
Make a screen.
Put a chair into the thing.
Then get the lot painted.

Forgot to mention...this one will have a separate brake lever on the car so that doing a left turn will be like doing a handbrake turn... got the brake lever from the containers at CMMC yesterday,

and
Then enjoy.  :ricky:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 12:22:56 pm
Anybody with a spare seat like this maybe.

http://www.autostyle.co.za/evo-vinyl-black-non-reclinable-racing-seat-sold-ea.html (http://www.autostyle.co.za/evo-vinyl-black-non-reclinable-racing-seat-sold-ea.html)
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: chopperpilot on April 04, 2016, 12:51:09 pm
Wel gedaan...met die "Brakpan Side Car"! ;)
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Gérrard on April 04, 2016, 01:06:55 pm
Ja-nee, only in Brakpan   :lol8:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 01:15:04 pm
Julle is net jaloers want julle het nie so 'n lekker TOY nie....en julle bly nie in Brakpan nie.  So we-pe...  :imaposer:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: africanSky on April 04, 2016, 01:36:34 pm
Very cool Woody. Is there a diagonal brace from the sidecar from  to the top of the bike frame?
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 03:01:47 pm
No not yet.
The 38 mm square bar is a solid section right through.... if you understand what I mean.
See this picture.

Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Black_Hawk on April 04, 2016, 03:26:19 pm
'n Boer maak 'n plan. Goeie werk  :thumleft:. Ek hou die een met 'n valk oog dop.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 04:02:00 pm
Het al parte bymekaar begin maak vir die REGTE sidecar op die XT1200ZE.

BMW 325i Dolphin Shape rear wheel Caliper.   R 450.00

Hyundai Getz rear wheel bearing hub assembly
Disk rotor.
Isuzu Clutch Mater cylinder.
Last three items R 806.00

Ok it was with a bit of haggling and puppy eyes... but I got it for a good price.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 04:07:51 pm
Another picture of the wheelbearing with a flange.... easy to make something to fit this on.

What size wheel should I put on... 17 inch ?

This is 4 stud 100 pcd size.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Wayne on April 04, 2016, 04:36:34 pm
Wow! This should be in the Garage, Projects & Restorations section of the forum.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: africanSky on April 04, 2016, 05:30:40 pm
No not yet.
The 38 mm square bar is a solid section right through.... if you understand what I mean.
See this picture.



I'm more concerned about the bike frame than the sidecar frame strength ;D
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 04, 2016, 05:40:51 pm
This project is by no means completed.
I do have the round pipe and 12mm rose joints to do that....at least the front one that I can take nice and high on the frame.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Gérrard on April 05, 2016, 12:38:52 pm
So gaan jy hom afbring dat ons Grootrivierpoort kan gaan doen  :eek7:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 05, 2016, 12:41:42 pm
Volgende keer as ek alleen kom.
Sien sien mos ek kom met 'n TREK die keer .  :peepwall:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: 2bfree on April 06, 2016, 09:24:02 am
AWESOME Woody! Just remember there are no "experts" here and if someone professes to be one they're not!

The only way to do something like what you're doing is to just keep trying new things out, keep experimenting, keep test riding it and keep trying to break it in all conditions... until you get it right, this is the only way... it takes a lot of time and a lot of energy and money but its seriously worth it in the end.  :thumleft:

Strength is the main factor here, don't skimp on cheap welding or cheap materials.

You're welcome to come visit me on my farm in the 7 Passes if ever you're out this way.

All the best with your build! :ricky:

Cheers. K
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 06, 2016, 09:46:59 am
Thank's for the positive feedback.
From my studies on the web I came across 1000's of ways to do it.
Like you say. In the end as long as it works and is safe.
For this lightweight rig I think 38x38 by 3mm thick is way strong. My brother in law that did most of the welding I can trust as well.
I would love to take this old lady out for a spin like I did last year when I did the EC-Bash with her.   http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=172359.0. (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=172359.0.)
But the BOSS and my son will be joining me this year again to the EC Bash, so we are on the big bikes.

But I will take you up on you offer and visit sometime.

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on April 06, 2016, 10:03:50 am
Sorry the real RR is here http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=173307.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=173307.0)


I want to do this trip with the sidecar next time. :ricky:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on May 25, 2016, 04:24:22 pm
Just have to get the Honda rear shock to Superfoxi then I will carry on.

But in the meantime I scored a full Rumbux for XT1200.  Will modify the bottom part.

Also planning a tilting fitting to this one.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on May 26, 2016, 01:51:32 pm
Searching the web for more info came across these mad Russians.

All 3 wheels drive .

https://youtu.be/ZTYQVzvZPw4
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: MegaPix on May 26, 2016, 02:16:30 pm
Ek lees en leer ook

 :sip:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on May 26, 2016, 03:00:19 pm
Is jy ook moeg vir OMVAL  :imaposer:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: MegaPix on May 27, 2016, 03:17:52 pm
Is jy ook moeg vir OMVAL  :imaposer:

Kyk ek het laat in my lewe begin ry, en in die kort rukkie het ek al baie neer gebliksem
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on May 27, 2016, 08:15:58 pm
 :imaposer:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: RobC on May 27, 2016, 09:54:37 pm
Searching the web for more info came across these mad Russians.

All 3 wheels drive .

https://youtu.be/ZTYQVzvZPw4

More like talented practical Russians. :eek7:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on May 29, 2016, 07:39:10 pm
Eventually got around to take the rear shock out this weekend. Again amazed by the quality of this 1984 Honda.
Nothing rusted when I stripped the shock out under 30 minutes.
Nou with our WD couriers to Super Foxi and then I can pick it up 2nd week in June when we go to CPT for my daughters graduation.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on July 12, 2016, 11:30:51 am
Anybody with a spare 15 inch wheel ?
4 hole 100 PCD.

Mag or steel.

Thank's
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: ktmmer on July 12, 2016, 11:32:44 am
Anybody with a spare 15 inch wheel ?
4 hole 100 PCD.

Mag or steel.

Thank's

14 Duim sal jy nog kry 15 duim moet jy maar n Golf / VW wiel gebruik dis ook 100 pcd.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Geel Kat on July 12, 2016, 11:35:47 am
Anybody with a spare 15 inch wheel ?
4 hole 100 PCD.

Mag or steel.

Thank's

Daar by julle gaan staal beter werk, dan kan jy 'n spinner hubcap opsit  :thumleft:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on July 12, 2016, 11:58:15 am
Ek VRA mos WIE HET EEN.  Maak nie saak of ek hom self moet chrome nie
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Mev Vis Arend on July 12, 2016, 08:20:28 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on July 12, 2016, 08:25:16 pm
Wat loer AUNTIE :imaposer:
Yamaha sidecar is oppad.
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Jakkals on July 12, 2016, 08:29:58 pm
Wat loer AUNTIE :imaposer:
Yamaha sidecar is oppad.

Op pad waarheen, ek sien ook nog niks.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on July 12, 2016, 09:23:07 pm
Sjarrup jy. Soek vir myn 15 " rim. 4 gat 100 pcd
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Frankrzzgp on July 14, 2016, 08:29:12 am
Sjarrup jy. Soek vir myn 15 " rim. 4 gat 100 pcd

Op watse karre werk daai 100 pcd rims?

Ek kan hoor by iemand wat ek ken, ek verbeel my hulle het daai rims... Maar ek belowe niks! :deal:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Snafu on July 14, 2016, 08:51:47 am
Woody, ek bewonder julle manne wat so handig is met die hande!!

Volg defnitief die een, seker maar n oouderdom ding :)
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on July 14, 2016, 09:12:00 am
Dankie Frankie.  Hoor by die panel beaters daar langs jou  :imaposer:  Hulle sal weet wat is 4 gat 100 pcd.  Kan die HUB more saamstuur.

Nee Snafu... nie handig nie,  net SUINIG ! :imaposer:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: ktmmer on July 14, 2016, 09:12:59 am
Sjarrup jy. Soek vir myn 15 " rim. 4 gat 100 pcd

Op watse karre werk daai 100 pcd rims?

Ek kan hoor by iemand wat ek ken, ek verbeel my hulle het daai rims... Maar ek belowe niks! :deal:

Golfs
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: Mother on September 07, 2016, 10:24:09 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: woody1 on September 07, 2016, 10:30:32 am
Hey WAG !!! ek was laas naweek weg gewees man.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: 1ougat on September 29, 2016, 12:39:11 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: The Ugly Duckling sidecar. We have to start somewhere
Post by: zetman on September 30, 2016, 08:31:08 am
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=197277.msg3685324#msg3685324 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=197277.msg3685324#msg3685324)