Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => BMW 1200 LC => Topic started by: w@nted on April 11, 2016, 12:16:28 pm

Title: Bike cut out
Post by: w@nted on April 11, 2016, 12:16:28 pm
Hi there

So this weekend as I was approaching a traffic light, decelerating and gearing from 6th down to about 3rd gear, my bike just died. Not stalled or any funny noise, just cut out. This left me standing in the middle of the road  :-[ Luckily no cars behind me, and I was able to just start it again. Has not happened again.

Has this happened to anyone before? I see there are similar cases reported on advrider website... Bike is going in for 1000km service tomorrow, problem is that I have not been able to replicate the issue again. Will ask them to have a look?  ???

Bike is 2016 trophy edition. No quickshifter. Brand new.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: w@nted on April 11, 2016, 12:19:00 pm
Aparently in Scotland a "throttle software update" adressed the issue...
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: 1190 on April 11, 2016, 01:01:08 pm
My one did that a few times....made a noise like it was "pinging"when it cut out. Thought it could be running to lean. I had a 2014, and it did it twice in 13,000km. If you revved the bike quickly from idle when it was hot it would also sometimes make that noise but never cut out.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: w@nted on April 11, 2016, 01:17:06 pm
That's the problem, mine has only died once. Quiet when revving after startup, cannot hear pinging. (Had that on my 2012 gs).
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: 1190 on April 11, 2016, 01:35:15 pm
I'm speaking under correction, but I thought they put a heavier flywheel on the 2015 model to address this issue....but your one should have that update. My one also made quite a rattle when it was idling and if you upped the revs by 50rpm it would go away. I read somewhere it was the decompression valve that was making that noise. When I traded the bike in the salesman actually thought there was something wrong with the bike......
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: Copernicus on April 11, 2016, 02:10:19 pm
Hi there

So this weekend as I was approaching a traffic light, decelerating and gearing from 6th down to about 3rd gear, my bike just died. Not stalled or any funny noise, just cut out. This left me standing in the middle of the road  :-[ Luckily no cars behind me, and I was able to just start it again. Has not happened again.

Has this happened to anyone before? I see there are similar cases reported on advrider website... Bike is going in for 1000km service tomorrow, problem is that I have not been able to replicate the issue again. Will ask them to have a look?  ???

Bike is 2016 trophy edition. No quickshifter. Brand new.

I had the same issue on my previous bike and it was the battery.  However, yours seem to be too new for that possibility although I would not eliminate it totally.  But I guess with all the electronic control over the engine, a glitch is the system could be a strong contender.  But keep an eye on the battery...
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: Ouman on April 11, 2016, 02:14:50 pm
My bike did exactly the same. It needed balancing of the throttle bodies which sorted the problem for good. Mine used to die when I bliped on down shifting.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: Frannarossi on April 11, 2016, 02:55:02 pm
Japie,ry jy dan nou 'n 800?
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: w@nted on April 11, 2016, 03:23:48 pm
Hi there

So this weekend as I was approaching a traffic light, decelerating and gearing from 6th down to about 3rd gear, my bike just died. Not stalled or any funny noise, just cut out. This left me standing in the middle of the road  :-[ Luckily no cars behind me, and I was able to just start it again. Has not happened again.

Has this happened to anyone before? I see there are similar cases reported on advrider website... Bike is going in for 1000km service tomorrow, problem is that I have not been able to replicate the issue again. Will ask them to have a look?  ???

Bike is 2016 trophy edition. No quickshifter. Brand new.

I had the same issue on my previous bike and it was the battery.  However, yours seem to be too new for that possibility although I would not eliminate it totally.  But I guess with all the electronic control over the engine, a glitch is the system could be a strong contender.  But keep an eye on the battery...

Thanks will ask dealer to check tomorrow :thumleft:
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on April 11, 2016, 05:37:11 pm
Mine did as well if I would rev it and close the throttle quickly
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: lecap on April 12, 2016, 10:56:53 am
Almost each and every fuel injected engine (EFI) cuts the fuel supply completely on over run in the rev range starting just over idle. This has the potential to create problems when you gear down whilst in over run and with the throttle fully closed.

w@nted mentions a throttle software upgrade. This would make sense. You change the set point rev limit at which the efi starts as the revs drop in over run.

Ouman: Same here. The EFI interprets the blip as you trying to get power, at the same moment you pull the clutch, revs drop, fuel is injected, engine chokes and cuts out. This might not happen if everything is spot on.  Turn the butterfly valves out of synch and you end up with a mess.

1190: Re: The flywheel. You are correct adding inertia to the flywheel would potentially sort out the stall on down shift in over run issue but I think it would need quite a bit of extra inertia to achieve this whilst adding disadvantages of more rotating mass. The increase of the rotating mass is more likely directed at killing rotational vibration, some faint high frequency buzz or a noise. The stalling issue is much more easily addressed by a software update as mentioned earlier.

The rattle on idle which you mention sounds suspiciously like an engine which is running with its throttle bodies out of synch. This will typically disappear as soon as you open the butterfly valves ever so slightly as the differential opening of the valves decreases rapidly.

The decompression valve story is bull shite since none of the BMW boxers has a decompression valve or compression release valve lifter.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: 1190 on April 12, 2016, 11:21:47 am
The decompression valve story is bull shite since none of the BMW boxers has a decompression valve or compression release valve lifter.

http://www.r1200gs.info/forum/2-general-chatter/12585-clicking-noise-idle-2014-r1200gs.html (http://www.r1200gs.info/forum/2-general-chatter/12585-clicking-noise-idle-2014-r1200gs.html)

Quote:
Originally Posted by didja_dream View Post
Hi at idle every now and again there is a sort of a loud click noise coming from the engine does anybody know what this is?
"They all do that."

If it is from the right cylinder and only at idle, it is the compression release mechanism. Not to worry. These new engines make all sorts of strange noises that the airheads didn't.

From The MCN forum -

BMW R1200 GS LC 2013 Engine Problem
Hi, I have an annoying ticking noise on my R 1200 GS LC 2013 The strangest thing about this is that the ticking noise only comes apparent when the engine is warm!

To fix this ticking noise I have had the following done at BMW dealership Rayners Garage in Cardiff and still no joy

2 full cam shaft & decompression lever in the right cylinder changes
The decompression mechanism changed
Separately new cam shaft gears changed
and most recently now a new cylinder head!
Valve clearances have been checked and if needed adjusted
Can anyone else shed any light on it for me? I have uploaded the noise in a video to you tube Engine Rattle BMW R1200GS LC 2013 - YouTube
Can you let me know if you have similar issues and How you resolved the noise (if you did)? I have been without my bike now for over a month and BMW are no closer to fixing it!!

Thanks in advance all!
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: lecap on April 13, 2016, 10:09:39 am
Ok I just watched some fancy computer animation of the K50 and it does have a compression release mechanism.
Eat humble pie.

Some thoughts:
A decompressor typically only activates at an engine speed well below idle. You will pretty much have to attempt to stall the engine to get the decompressor to become active. It's still questionable if you firstly would hear the decompressor contacting a bucket / valve lifter or rather some other violent abnormal event (detonation, piston slap...).

Think about it this way: You crank the engine with the decompressor active, it fires and accelerates to idle speed.
Now the engine idles and the decompressor activates "by accident". Why would the engine now cut out?

With regards to the video link in your post: I put my money on excessive piston to cylinder clearance or a timing chain tensioner / tensioner rail problem.



With regards to the original question / OP: I would first of all make sure the throttle bodies are synchronised.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: OomD on April 13, 2016, 10:41:19 am
Ok I just watched some fancy computer animation of the K50 and it does have a compression release mechanism.
Eat humble pie.

Some thoughts:
A decompressor typically only activates at an engine speed well below idle. You will pretty much have to attempt to stall the engine to get the decompressor to become active. It's still questionable if you firstly would hear the decompressor contacting a bucket / valve lifter or rather some other violent abnormal event (detonation, piston slap...).

Think about it this way: You crank the engine with the decompressor active, it fires and accelerates to idle speed.
Now the engine idles and the decompressor activates "by accident". Why would the engine now cut out?

With regards to the video link in your post: I put my money on excessive piston to cylinder clearance or a timing chain tensioner / tensioner rail problem.



With regards to the original question / OP: I would first of all make sure the throttle bodies are synchronised.

On the internet? Linky, please?
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: 1190 on April 13, 2016, 12:33:31 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA)

This one?
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: OomD on April 13, 2016, 12:51:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA)

This one?
May have been, but I did not see any decompression mechanism in that one. May have missed it, though.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: TheBear on April 13, 2016, 07:11:30 pm
Mine did that a few times just before the 30 000km service.  Was resolved at the service by resetting the fly by wire throttle software.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: lecap on April 14, 2016, 09:36:59 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA)

This one?
May have been, but I did not see any decompression mechanism in that one. May have missed it, though.

Yes that's the video I was talking about. You can see the decompressor mechanism on the end of the lower (exhaust) camshaft between roughly 0:20 and 0:25
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: OomD on April 14, 2016, 10:47:32 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeawHDmmKIA)

This one?
May have been, but I did not see any decompression mechanism in that one. May have missed it, though.

Yes that's the video I was talking about. You can see the decompressor mechanism on the end of the lower (exhaust) camshaft between roughly 0:20 and 0:25
:thumleft:
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: Jacobsroodt on April 14, 2016, 11:14:30 am
Try a BoosterPlug. Todays bikes don't only run lean, they idle too lean as well. A BoosterPlug improves the AFR by 6%, even at idle. With a BoosterPlug installed one will typically experience a stronger idle and easier startup. A stronger idle can be felt when riding through cones at idle speeds, where the bike is less prone to stall. Easier start means the starter will have to swing less for the bike to fire up - I have witnessed this on F800s and 1200s.

Manufacturers have to abide by Euro4 regulations, and weak mixtures typically cause poor idling.
The BoosterPlug Unit improves the AFR under acceleration AND deceleration to help prevent anti stalling, and a motor will typically idle stronger.

NS. I remember some Opel cars having an irritating throttle feature to prevent stalling. When lifting off throttle, it would hover around 1300 rpm before settling at 850 rpm. Irritating, as it caused jerky gear-changes.
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: Ouman on April 14, 2016, 11:33:46 am
Japie,ry jy dan nou 'n 800?

Jip! Ek raak nou oud jong!!!
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: Frannarossi on April 14, 2016, 02:41:55 pm
My magtig ek het gedink jy gaan daai bike nog 'n paar jaar ry man!
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: TheBear on April 14, 2016, 05:16:34 pm
Try a BoosterPlug. Todays bikes don't only run lean, they idle too lean as well.

Although I believe that a BoosterPlug or Accelorator Module can make a bice and usable difference to a bike like the BMW, neither can FIX an existing problem with the vehicle, such as a fly by wire throttle, or throttle body sync out of wack. 
Title: Re: Bike cut out
Post by: Biza on April 15, 2016, 11:07:43 am
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=180888.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=180888.0)