Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 08:43:26 am

Title: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 08:43:26 am
I spent the week end riding in the area between Willowmore, Aberdeen and Steytlerville. On two occassions I found locked gates on what are, according to me, proclaimed roads.

In both instances I popped the lock open, and closed the gate behind me. The one farmer approached me and we got into an argument about this. When I assked him who had given him authority to close the road he had no answer.

I would like to know where one can verify if a road is still proclaimed, and if it is and a farmer has locked the gate, what action can be taken.

The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.

Any and all opinions welcome.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 08:48:19 am
Think about the other side of the coin.  Gates left open.  On many farms this can and have led to expensive damage.  I know my uncle locks gates these days, because of damaged suffered due to a gate left open.

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on May 16, 2016, 08:53:04 am
Stocktheft on quite roads. Farmers lock gates to block escape routes.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 09:15:41 am
Stocktheft on quite roads. Farmers lock gates to block escape routes.


Also for general security. If a seldom used backroad has controlled access (gate/lock) then farmers can easily notice out of place people or vehicles. Usually however people apply for sections of public roads to get closed/controlled access and there are instances where access may be legally controlled on a public road.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Manic on May 16, 2016, 09:19:43 am
With the Farm Murders and stock theft, I agree with farmers to lock a gate if they can.

Bummer for us, but yeah, that is life  :'(

Why leave a gate unlock for 7 days a week only for a bike to pass there on a Saterday/Sunday?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 16, 2016, 09:28:19 am
I would like to know where one can verify if a road is still proclaimed, and if it is and a farmer has locked the gate, what action can be taken.
The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.
Any and all opinions welcome.

Also hate it when people think they have the right to close/control a public road.  Maybe the land surveyor maps can be of assistance?

The farmers I know with public roads crossing their land have fencing on either side of the road to keep people off their land.

If there is a locked gate over the road then probably very few people use it. The chances is probably good that it is not a public road but rather a servitude road.
If you don't know the details of the servitude on a road then chances are good you are not one of the people allowed to use the servitude.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 09:54:48 am

The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.

Remember you pass through there once or twice in your life, the farmers live there every day. Think of it like the neighborhood watches and booms people use in cities for security.

A big problem here is that Google Earth and most GPS maps include all roads/tracks without info on whether it is a proclaimed public road or not and often people find themselves trespassing unwittingly because of this.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: HB 9 on May 16, 2016, 10:56:06 am
With the Farm Murders and stock theft, I agree with farmers to lock a gate if they can.

Bummer for us, but yeah, that is life  :'(

Why leave a gate unlock for 7 days a week only for a bike to pass there on a Saterday/Sunday?

Agree 100%.

I am very sure there are many open roads that you can ride  :deal:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 11:07:24 am
I spent the week end riding in the area between Willowmore, Aberdeen and Steytlerville. On two occassions I found locked gates on what are, according to me, proclaimed roads.


I know around Aberdeen a lot of the farms are part of the Camdeboo Conservancy which allows farmers to legally control access on many of the roads.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 11:08:39 am
Did you know that if Mr A comes down the road and hits Mr. B's cow who is dawdling across the road, Mr B is responsible even if Mr. C left the gate open?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Manic on May 16, 2016, 11:11:08 am
I would like to know where one can verify if a road is still proclaimed, and if it is and a farmer has locked the gate, what action can be taken.
The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.
Any and all opinions welcome.

Also hate it when people think they have the right to close/control a public road.  Maybe the land surveyor maps can be of assistance?

The farmer I know with public roads crossing their land have fencing on either side of the road to keep people off their land.



Not in the Eastern Cape.
Here you get a public road that havent seen a car in years.
The road goes through the farmers land with no fencing either side. Twee spoor paadtjie.
Leave the gate open and all his livestock wonders off.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 11:51:52 am
I can understand the frustration of getting to a locked gate, but I also have the shoe on the other foot. In many cases you have small, tweespoor "proclaimed" roads that are only used by one or two farmers and those up to mischief, plus the odd biker who wants to ride that specific road for some or other reason. In most cases it is in a desolated area, far from the farmer's house, so no control over who rides through there nor what they do while there. See it as a walkway that used to go though your backyard, that is not used anymore, but was never deproclaimed. Will you lock it or not?

I have three locked gates under similar circumstances leading to and from one of my farms which is uninhabited. It is an extensive livestock farm and I go there once or twice a week and it has happened before that I get there and find the gate wide open. Someone went through there and never even bothered to close the gate, allowing livestock to pass through for almost a week until I got there again. Now I lock all the unused entrances. You must remember that many years ago farms were much smaller and all portions had to have an access road. Today many of these portions are consolidated by one owner again, so why should anyone else have access there? Legally I can do nothing if you break the lock, but know full well it will be replaced by a thicker chain and stronger lock if you do. You decide for yourself what should weigh the heaviest in this case, my right to protect my property, livelihood and safety or your right to use a basically unused road that is not even maintained by the authorities anymore for recreation. PS, remember you break locks at your own risk, so rather don't do it if you are not strong or fast.  ;)
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 12:14:26 pm
The roads in question were on the surveyor generals maps and are not a little tweespoor. These are graded wide roads with concrete culverts and new road signs, so someone is maintaining them.

As to needing to be strong and fast I would caution against the use of violence or firearms. The situation could quickly escalate and I am sure some guys who ride are also "armed and dangerous".
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 12:23:03 pm
You obviously rate your right to recreation higher than the right of someone else to protect his property. Put up a map so that we can see which roads you refer to. I cannot say what the reason for the locked gates on well maintained roads might be, but I can tell you that there was a recent farm murder in Aberdeen area and had that farmer locked his gates he would probably still be alive today. I know of another farmer close to Glenconnor who had his gates left open on numerous occasions, at least once by bikers, then last week he had solar panels, pumps, regulators and batteries stolen by people using said roads. Police pull up their shoulders, now the gates are locked.

Warning stays applicable.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 12:24:40 pm
The roads in question were on the surveyor generals maps and are not a little tweespoor. These are graded wide roads with concrete culverts and new road signs, so someone is maintaining them.

Again, see what I said below

I spent the week end riding in the area between Willowmore, Aberdeen and Steytlerville. On two occassions I found locked gates on what are, according to me, proclaimed roads.


I know around Aberdeen a lot of the farms are part of the Camdeboo Conservancy which allows farmers to legally control access on many of the roads.

This is becoming more common both for conservation but also for the improved security.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Dawid S on May 16, 2016, 12:27:30 pm
Here is an example of one guy who believe he has all the right and everyone has none.
As a farmer I say A hole!
Kom breek my slotte.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on May 16, 2016, 12:29:22 pm
I think we should stop more at farm houses and speak to the farmers. Find out what can be ridden and what not.
After all who are the people that normally help us out when we have a fall or our bikes break down? The farmers and they do so always with a smile. We should try and keep the relationship friendly. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 12:37:21 pm
Bie

I will download the GPS tracks when I get a chance. Perhaps they are part of a conservancy, however there were no visible conservancy signs as is the case in the Baviaans area.

As to recreation over security, that is not my point. I appreciate the danger that farmers live with on a daily basis, and am just as saddened by the farm murders.

However, if you knowingly break the law by locking a gate on a proclaimed road at least have the decency to put up a sign at the entrance to the road informing passing strangers of the closure, saving me doing a loop of 100kms needlessly and possibly running out of fuel in the process.

Lastly if a landowner is going assault me for being on a proclaimed road which has been illegally closed, don't be surprised if I defend myself with the maximum force that is legally justifiable.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sandban(g)k on May 16, 2016, 12:47:33 pm
Kaptein, obviously is jy een van daai.

I agree with all the other guys, especially Bie tried to explain the other side of the coin.

What if you have an i cident along that road? Will that farmer be the one to help/save/phone your loved ones and ambulance? The same guy whose right to protect his life and property you cant respect?

Why didnt you go to a farmhouse close by and asked why the gates are locked and whetherthey can open it for you?

And the trick question: after you broke the locks, did you leave the gates open?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 16, 2016, 12:50:37 pm
 :sip: interesting debate. indeed knowledge/information is the only thing here apparently wont end up in a shoot out. lets try that.  :ricky:

i always close gates behind me, its the 1%rs that stuff it up for the rest and well locked gates, depends on how many bullet holes and old locks you can see in the immediate area that draws my concern.  :deal: :imaposer: :peepwall: i wouldn't break a gate that leads to a building or homestead but may consider it if its obvious. and no one able to advise on an alternative route. farmers in my experience are well worth chatting to. before you break a lock at least.  :pot:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Odd Dog on May 16, 2016, 12:55:25 pm
If its a public road and the farmer needs to lock the gate for security needs why not place a sign with the farmers number so that he can unlock said gate and access can be granted. If it's private land/road then tough luck, no permission = no access.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 16, 2016, 12:57:48 pm
probably not going to work if farmer like Bie visits once a week? or maybe just a cell number? but even then i doubt Bie will be able to drop what he is doing and dash over.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: GRIM on May 16, 2016, 01:59:51 pm
I have an access road over a part of my farm - it is a servitude over my neighbors farms to allow me access, and to make life easier I made it a through road so that the neighboring farmers don't have to drive all the way around to visit each other. The section through my farm appears on no map, however the servitudes on my neighbors land do appear - even though it is a private road. Then local truckers decided to use the road as a thoroughfare and stuffed it up for all, in rainy season it was unusable except by tractor, so I gated and locked it, and gave the neighbors keys. People who break the locks get a kak time and their day / weekend is generally ruined, and that is their tough shit.

As an aside, I still laugh when I remember the 2 4x4's that drove through a fence and over my lands and got stuck in a bog - then wanted me to pull them out. Shame.  ;D

Locked gates are locked for a reason.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ktmmer on May 16, 2016, 02:08:34 pm
I spent the week end riding in the area between Willowmore, Aberdeen and Steytlerville. On two occassions I found locked gates on what are, according to me, proclaimed roads.

In both instances I popped the lock open, and closed the gate behind me. The one farmer approached me and we got into an argument about this. When I assked him who had given him authority to close the road he had no answer.

I would like to know where one can verify if a road is still proclaimed, and if it is and a farmer has locked the gate, what action can be taken.

The farmers are starting to get to me, and I would like to know if you could lay a charge at the local SAPS if they lock a gate on a public road.

Any and all opinions welcome.

How do you pop a lock open?
If I ever need to pop a lock open  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 02:11:34 pm
To add to what has been said. A friend recently wanted to sell his farm, actually a combination of 5 portions. Two portions had an access road coming in from the north, then joining up and coming out at the southernmost portion. None of those roads were ever graded anymore, he had to maintain them himself to be able to use them. For about 5 years prior to him selling the back entrances were locked and when he sold the property the buyer wanted to have clarity on the legality thereof. He would not have bought if he could not legally lock the gates.

Long story short, the roads department in PE was contacted and although the road appeared on their maps, there was no number assigned to the road. Even they did not know whether it was still a proclaimed public road, there were no records to indicate either way, so it was sold and is still locked. This was also a well used road some 20 years ago, road-signs and all, yet even the roads department could not say whether it was still proclaimed. I find it difficult to grasp how a recently graded road with new road-signs can be locked. How did the grader get there to grade beyond locked gates?

Surely you may defend yourself if it makes you feel better, but again, you were warned. Don't break other people's stuff simply because you think you can, all the while not even knowing whether it is in fact a proclaimed road. You might be trespassing for all you know, breaking and entering someone's property illegally and then confronting the owner in an aggressive way. Try it with the wrong guy and you may very well need to defend yourself. It is exactly this attitude that spoils it for others too. No gate will be locked without a proper reason. You expect farmers to put up with gates left open, with livestock and equipment theft etc for three years running so that just on the off chance you can ride through his farm unhindered during the fourth year.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 16, 2016, 02:17:49 pm
How do you pop a lock open?
If I ever need to pop a lock open  :peepwall:

https://www.youtube.com/v/1jJP0CcuJyE
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 02:41:25 pm
How do you pop a lock open?
If I ever need to pop a lock open  :peepwall:

https://www.youtube.com/v/1jJP0CcuJyE

That is why all the gates on our farms have a high quality version of these kind of locks on them. Short of cutting they are not that simple to break

(http://p.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/S1048211528/Disc-Lock.jpg)

You will find that stopping and chatting to farmers along the way many of them will even open gates onto private roads. I find myself way more reasonable when someone phones or stops at the house and asks for permission than when you catch the bastard climbing a gate or driving through your fields. I have had a case where I "accidentally" parked the bulldozer in the gate a trespasser had to use to get back out. Somehow they are very apologetic when they have no way out. And believe me, with a 10t machine parked in a farm gate not even a plastic will be able to squeeze past.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bappas on May 16, 2016, 02:42:50 pm
Passing trafic adds to security for the farmer as well. I do not thing they would like to see it that way.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: JC on May 16, 2016, 02:44:09 pm
So do farm murderers and stock thieves turn around at a locked gate?

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 16, 2016, 02:44:15 pm
Closing off a public roads is illegal.....You cannot justify doing this because the SAPS are not doing there job. Imaging if everybody had this mentality nobody would be able to go anywhere.....Locking gates are not going to stop farm murders or livestock theft, nobody sleeps with there houses unlocked and people get robbed and murdered every day of the week in SA. That being said I would never break open a locked gate, I would report it to the police and let them take the necessary action if need be..... Taking the law into your own hands and destroying other peoples property just perpetuates lawlessness...
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 16, 2016, 02:47:30 pm
So do farm murderers and stock thieves turn around at a locked gate?


:imaposer: :laughing4: now that is sharp.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 02:50:03 pm
Closing off a public roads is illegal.....

There are legal ways of doing this, such as forming/joining a conservancy, establishing a security corridor etc. If all land owners agree then you can apply to legally put a gate/boom across a public road. If it is a major road/thoroughfare then your application will fail of course, but in rural areas on seldom used roads the biggest challenge is getting all the land owners on board. How do you think secure neighborhoods are established?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 02:52:37 pm
So do farm murderers and stock thieves turn around at a locked gate?


:imaposer: :laughing4: now that is sharp.

No, but your average thieve won't steal a ton of tools if he can't drive up to the shed. Also, regarding murders, if everyone (locals) know the road is closed/controlled then you automatically notice out of place vehicles. Can potentially prevent a murder or lead to suspects being caught.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: RobC on May 16, 2016, 02:54:00 pm
My advice... be nice and leave the lock alone. The land owner has 100000 valid reasons why it is so.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 03:09:52 pm
Read back, most of these roads are not public roads anymore and are not serviced either anymore. Many of the properties involved are not inhabited, so if left open criminals have all the time in the world to do their thing. If the roads department does not have record of a specific road being part of the public network, how can it be public? We are not talking about big public roads. The roads in question in most cases are nothing more than a tweespoor road, but it used to give access to a property at the back or whatever, but they were open for anyone to use in years gone by. Many roads have been de-commissioned to save on maintenance for the province, yet they still appear on most maps.

The single biker that comes through on a road every third year can definitely not contribute to the safety of the farmer. In 99% of cases, firearms and vehicles are stolen in farm attacks and by locking gates the escape routes are blocked. Same goes for the odd bakkie that comes around to load 15 sheep without me even knowing they are on my farm. Even if left unlocked, most of these roads will not carry one legitimate vehicle per year, so how will that contribute to security? It is definitely more of a liability than anything else.

Tell me how you guys would have handled it if you were a farmer? A road crosses your property, not the main road everybody uses, but an old tweespoor that used to be a public road. That road still appears on maps, even Garmin, yet nobody uses it except criminals who steal you stock and equipment as well as the odd biker who wants to pass every third year? Will you take the financial loss to allow said biker the joy, or will you lock the gate? In your opinion it is not a public road, the provincial roads department cannot confirm that it is a public road and it is not maintained by them any more. Put your cards on the table.



Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: RobC on May 16, 2016, 03:14:15 pm
Read back, most of these roads are not public roads anymore and are not serviced either anymore. Many of the properties involved are not inhabited, so if left open criminals have all the time in the world to do their thing. If the roads department does not have record of a specific road being part of the public network, how can it be public? We are not talking about big public roads. The roads in question in most cases are nothing more than a tweespoor road, but it used to give access to a property at the back or whatever, but they were open for anyone to use in years gone by. Many roads have been de-commissioned to save on maintenance for the province, yet they still appear on most maps.

The single biker that comes through on a road every third year can definitely not contribute to the safety of the farmer. In 99% of cases, firearms and vehicles are stolen in farm attacks and by locking gates the escape routes are blocked. Same goes for the odd bakkie that comes around to load 15 sheep without me even knowing they are on my farm. Even if left unlocked, most of these roads will not carry one legitimate vehicle per year, so how will that contribute to security? It is definitely more of a liability than anything else.

Tell me how you guys would have handled it if you were a farmer? A road crosses your property, not the main road everybody uses, but an old tweespoor that used to be a public road. That road still appears on maps, even Garmin, yet nobody uses it except criminals who steal you stock and equipment as well as the odd biker who wants to pass every third year? Will you take the financial loss to allow said biker the joy, or will you lock the gate? In your opinion it is not a public road, the provincial roads department cannot confirm that it is a public road and it is not maintained by them any more. Put your cards on the table.




They do not have any cards Bie... 100% saam met julle in die gesprek.  :thumleft:

Security trumps pleasure. :deal:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ETS on May 16, 2016, 03:18:31 pm
My advice... be nice and leave the lock alone. The land owner has 100000 valid reasons why it is so.

I fully agree. It is closed for a reason- there are many other roads. This looks like a City vs Platteland argument to me. I know the city people are very "oppit" and expect everything to be as they want it. Buttt in this case- leave our farmers in peace please guys......
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 03:29:56 pm
What does the definition on public roads say?

The National Road Traffic Act, 1996 (NRTA) regulates what is considered a public road for operational purposes.

“public road” means any road, street or thoroughfare or any other place (whether a thoroughfare or not) which is commonly used by the public or any section thereof or to which the public or any section thereof has a right of access, and includes—
 
(a) the verge of any such road, street or thoroughfare;
(b) any bridge, ferry or drift traversed by any such road, street or thoroughfare; and
(c) any other work or object forming part of or connected with or belonging to such road, street or thoroughfare;”
 
“operate on a public road” or any like expression, in relation to a vehicle, means to use or drive a vehicle or to permit a vehicle to be used or driven on a public road, or to have or to permit a vehicle to be on a public road;”
 
The definition of a public road is not linked to the “ownership” or maintenance of a road, parking area, etc. but to the common use or right of use by the public of a road. 
 
A person, who wants to argue that a road is private, to avoid prosecution or prohibit a traffic officer from enforcing the law on such road, would therefore have to prove that a road has access control or members of the public do not use such road.  This is generally difficult to prove.  In terms of decided cases, very few roads are considered private.
 
In a specific case, even the fact that a mine displayed a sign stating that a road is private and prohibiting the public from using it was not sufficient to regard the road as private, due to the fact that the mine did nothing to ensure the road was not used by the public.


So, if the public does not generally use the road over my farm and there is access control in the form of a locked gate, as per the definition, is it still a public road?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 16, 2016, 03:42:13 pm
Read back, most of these roads are not public roads anymore and are not serviced either anymore. Many of the properties involved are not inhabited, so if left open criminals have all the time in the world to do their thing. If the roads department does not have record of a specific road being part of the public network, how can it be public? We are not talking about big public roads. The roads in question in most cases are nothing more than a tweespoor road, but it used to give access to a property at the back or whatever, but they were open for anyone to use in years gone by. Many roads have been de-commissioned to save on maintenance for the province, yet they still appear on most maps.

As ek reg lees dan was die thread nie oorspronklik oor die klein twee spoor servituut paaie nie. Ek stem saam boere het volle reg om hierdie te sluit.

Die oorspronklike vraag is meer oor die groter paaie en hoe om uit te vind of dit 'n publieke pad is of nie.

Ek is seker die Kaptein sal wegbly van die paaie as dit wel servituut of privaat grond of met toestemming toegemaak is.

Dit laat my dink aan die huis eienaars by Brits wat hekke oor die kanaalpaaie bou.  
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on May 16, 2016, 03:43:58 pm
What does the definition on public roads say?

The National Road Traffic Act, 1996 (NRTA) regulates what is considered a public road for operational purposes.

“public road” means any road, street or thoroughfare or any other place (whether a thoroughfare or not) which is commonly used by the public or any section thereof or to which the public or any section thereof has a right of access, and includes—
 
(a) the verge of any such road, street or thoroughfare;
(b) any bridge, ferry or drift traversed by any such road, street or thoroughfare; and
(c) any other work or object forming part of or connected with or belonging to such road, street or thoroughfare;”
 
“operate on a public road” or any like expression, in relation to a vehicle, means to use or drive a vehicle or to permit a vehicle to be used or driven on a public road, or to have or to permit a vehicle to be on a public road;”
 
The definition of a public road is not linked to the “ownership” or maintenance of a road, parking area, etc. but to the common use or right of use by the public of a road. 
 
A person, who wants to argue that a road is private, to avoid prosecution or prohibit a traffic officer from enforcing the law on such road, would therefore have to prove that a road has access control or members of the public do not use such road.  This is generally difficult to prove.  In terms of decided cases, very few roads are considered private.
 
In a specific case, even the fact that a mine displayed a sign stating that a road is private and prohibiting the public from using it was not sufficient to regard the road as private, due to the fact that the mine did nothing to ensure the road was not used by the public.


So, if the public does not generally use the road over my farm and there is access control in the form of a locked gate, as per the definition, is it still a public road?

****Disclaimer*****
I agree with all arguments sated on previous posts.

But I have a question

If you have a UNMANNED LOCKED GATE on a (lets say) I quiet old un-serviced public road are you not restricting free public access and thereby creating a situation where it is no longer a "PUBLIC ROAD"?

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 03:48:02 pm
PS, remember you break locks at your own risk, so rather don't do it if you are not strong or fast.  ;)

He also robs a farmer and a farmer community of security that they thought they had. 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 03:54:22 pm
Read back, most of these roads are not public roads anymore and are not serviced either anymore. Many of the properties involved are not inhabited, so if left open criminals have all the time in the world to do their thing. If the roads department does not have record of a specific road being part of the public network, how can it be public? We are not talking about big public roads. The roads in question in most cases are nothing more than a tweespoor road, but it used to give access to a property at the back or whatever, but they were open for anyone to use in years gone by. Many roads have been de-commissioned to save on maintenance for the province, yet they still appear on most maps.

As ek reg lees dan was die thread nie oorspronklik oor die klein twee spoor servituut paaie nie. Ek stem saam boere het volle reg om hierdie te sluit.

Die oorspronklike vraag is meer oor die groter paaie en hoe om uit te vind of dit 'n publieke pad is of nie.

Ek is seker die Kaptein sal wegbly van die paaie as dit wel servituut of privaat grond of met toestemming toegemaak is.

Dit laat my dink aan die huis eienaars by Brits wat hekke oor die kanaalpaaie bou.  


Net omdat 'n pad in stand gehou word beteken dit nie dit is 'n publieke pad nie. Baie boere onderhou hulle toegangspaaie.

Ek dink die OP moet vir ons 'n location van die pad/hekke stuur dan sal mens beter kan verstaan.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 03:57:42 pm
What does the definition on public roads say?

The National Road Traffic Act, 1996 (NRTA) regulates what is considered a public road for operational purposes.

“public road” means any road, street or thoroughfare or any other place (whether a thoroughfare or not) which is commonly used by the public or any section thereof or to which the public or any section thereof has a right of access, and includes—
 
(a) the verge of any such road, street or thoroughfare;
(b) any bridge, ferry or drift traversed by any such road, street or thoroughfare; and
(c) any other work or object forming part of or connected with or belonging to such road, street or thoroughfare;”
 
“operate on a public road” or any like expression, in relation to a vehicle, means to use or drive a vehicle or to permit a vehicle to be used or driven on a public road, or to have or to permit a vehicle to be on a public road;”
 
The definition of a public road is not linked to the “ownership” or maintenance of a road, parking area, etc. but to the common use or right of use by the public of a road. 
 
A person, who wants to argue that a road is private, to avoid prosecution or prohibit a traffic officer from enforcing the law on such road, would therefore have to prove that a road has access control or members of the public do not use such road.  This is generally difficult to prove.  In terms of decided cases, very few roads are considered private.
 
In a specific case, even the fact that a mine displayed a sign stating that a road is private and prohibiting the public from using it was not sufficient to regard the road as private, due to the fact that the mine did nothing to ensure the road was not used by the public.


So, if the public does not generally use the road over my farm and there is access control in the form of a locked gate, as per the definition, is it still a public road?

****Disclaimer*****
I agree with all arguments sated on previous posts.

But I have a question

If you have a UNMANNED LOCKED GATE on a (lets say) I quiet old un-serviced public road are you not restricting free public access and thereby creating a situation where it is no longer a "PUBLIC ROAD"?

Exactly my opinion too. Seems there is two criteria to be met. If road is (1) not commonly used by the public (say to gain access to their house for instance) and you (2) lock a gate to prevent public access, it is not a public road anymore. That is how I read the definition.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 03:58:08 pm
So do farm murderers and stock thieves turn around at a locked gate?



No they don't, but ....
.... when being chased by the local SAPS, local Farmer's Safety Group, etc. they can get trapped in an area. 
..... good locks indicate something to the patrols.  Broken locks something else.
.... unlocked gates can be left open.  My cattle walks through and chows your crops.

The list goes on. 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 16, 2016, 04:14:06 pm
Suburban boom gates policy approved
NEWS/SOUTH-AFRICA/GAUTENG /
03 February 2014 at 10:02am
By: ANNA COX
Johannesburg -

Joburg motorists visiting suburbs with boomed-off areas can no longer be forced to sign in or identify themselves before entering public roads.

A new policy for road closures was approved by the City of Joburg last week. The policy becomes effective within 30 days.

 

Residents of suburbs, particularly in wealthy areas, began closing off public roads with boom gates in 2001 following increasing incidents of crime.

An initial policy was formulated in 2003 but was never approved. Instead, the Johannesburg Roads Agency (JRA) dealt with applications on a case-by-case basis.

According to the new policy:

* No electronic devices such as remote controls may be used.

* One gate has to be manned 24-hours a day, with full, free vehicular and pedestrian access; other gates may have limited hours of operation, but need to be accessible 24 hours a day.

* A resident who chooses not to be a part of the group may not be prejudiced in any way.

* All gates must have 24-hour pedestrian access with wheelchair accessibility and, in case of an emergency, all gates must be able to open.

* Security staff can only monitor activity – they may not search vehicles or people, or ask them to fill in a register or ask for any personal information, nor may security staff cause delay for other motorists.

* No private lock can be placed on these gates; and

* Plans for closures have to be submitted, and proper warning signs have to be erected.

In addition, time frames have now been put in place for almost every step of the procedure, which is likely to facilitate approvals that, in the past, were delayed for years.

In the past, the road closure issue has caused divisions among communities, with unhappy residents breaking down booms with their cars in protest

In Malanshof, where non-paying residents are refused a remote control to some gates, the community is constantly at war

The JRA started tearing down some of the booms around 2004, much to the fury of residents who claimed they had a right to protect themselves.

The JRA then agreed to allow those already boomed off to remain closed, though the applications were never formally approved. The JRA says there are about 350 closures in the city.

“Anyone who fails to enter into, or contravenes the terms and conditions of the policy or neglects to remove illegal structures becomes subject to the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act, and the closures will be removed in terms of the road and other by-laws,” said JRA spokesman Sam Modiba.

DA transport spokesman Nico de Jager said the new policy was more user-friendly than before with clear time frames that even the SAPS must abide by. If they fail to, the applications can go ahead.

“In the past, an application could take months and even years to be concluded, often due to lack of co-operation from the SAPS. Applicants were required to submit a very costly traffic impact study when they first applied, as well as when they reapplied. In terms of the revised policy, such a study will no longer be required on reapplication.

“Although residents should not be seen as living in pockets, creating a further divide between rich and poor, there can also be no price on the right to feeling safe in one’s home,” said De Jager.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 04:14:33 pm
As I started this I would like to comment on a few things.

Firstly I have never ridden on a road that is obviously an access road to a farm or portion thereof. Nor have I entered where a sign indicates private property or similar. Tweespoor type roads are to me obviously private.

Asking the farmer about the road is impossible in many instances as you have to enter a locked gate or pass a sign to get to the farm house.

Mybproblem lies with roads that to the best of my knowledge are proclaimed and generally lie between two larger roads. Farmers on either end use the section leading to the closest road. The farmer in the middle then locks the gate on either end of his property.
He has now theoretically created a private road as the public no longer has access. However this is a chicken and egg scenario as had he not locked the gates in the first instance the public would still have had access.

At this point I feel the farmer is acting illegally, but also understand the concerns raised by farmers in this thread. As to the solution I have no idea.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 04:23:17 pm
The definition uses the term "commonly used", so if someone uses the road once a month it can hardly be regarded "commonly used". If the farmer then locks the gate to prevent further access, it is by definition not a public road any more and if you break his locks you are breaking and entering. Correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Andre E on May 16, 2016, 04:24:25 pm
If a road is in disuse the minister may be petitioned to change it's proclamation. It needs to be published, and all interested parties may object, including pedestrians that may use this road.

If you build a private road, and members of the public use it for 10 years or longer, it is now a public road.

If you put a gate across a public road, for whatever reason, you are doing it unlawfully. Granting permission for a gate over a public road is granted very seldom, mostly to game reserves or hunting farms with dangerous animals.

My father's neighbour (well known EL business man) tried gating a servitude road. Got his ass handed to him in 5 court cases. You can find the cases if you google Els vs Krull.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Andre E on May 16, 2016, 04:25:40 pm
The definition uses the term "commonly used", so if someone uses the road once a month it can hardly be regarded "commonly used". If the farmer then locks the gate to prevent further access, it is by definition not a public road any more and if you break his locks you are breaking and entering. Correct me if I am wrong.

Verkeerd, jammer.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 04:27:51 pm
At this point I feel the farmer is acting illegally, but also understand the concerns raised by farmers in this thread. As to the solution I have no idea.

It is indeed a conundrum.  One I didn't understand until I saw the issue on my uncles farm in real life.  It is aggravated by the modern maps we have.   It shows pretty much all roads and do not differentiate between private and public.  See pic below.  This is the area of my uncle's farm.  The bits I did in blue is public roads.  The rest are private.  No way to see that on the Garmap version I am using.  Some of those private roads are in a much better condition than the public roads as well.



Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 04:28:02 pm
The definition uses the term "commonly used", so if someone uses the road once a month it can hardly be regarded "commonly used". If the farmer then locks the gate to prevent further access, it is by definition not a public road any more and if you break his locks you are breaking and entering. Correct me if I am wrong.

Verkeerd, jammer.

Ons praat nie van hekke opsit enige plek op 'n bestaande pad nie, ons almal weet dis verkeerd. Ons praat van bestaande hekke, op ondergeskikte paaie wat nooit of bykans nooit gebruik word nie. Hoe lees jy die definisie?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Andre E on May 16, 2016, 04:33:57 pm
The definition uses the term "commonly used", so if someone uses the road once a month it can hardly be regarded "commonly used". If the farmer then locks the gate to prevent further access, it is by definition not a public road any more and if you break his locks you are breaking and entering. Correct me if I am wrong.

Verkeerd, jammer.

Ons praat nie van hekke opsit enige plek op 'n bestaande pad nie, ons almal weet dis verkeerd. Ons praat van bestaande hekke, op ondergeskikte paaie wat nooit of bykans nooit gebruik word nie. Hoe lees jy die definisie?

Jammer, het jou mislees. Sy reg om 'n slot op te sit is wel betwisbaar, tensy hy die red tape prosedure gevolg het om die pad van publiek na privaat te herproklameer.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 04:35:41 pm
Andre E is right imho. A proclaimed road is a road over which a government agency has ownershipnand authority, and theoretically the obligation to carry out maintenance. The road will appear in the asset register of said agency. A.legal process must be followed in the case of deproclamation and same published in the government gazzette.

The number of people using the road, the frequency of use , and the purpose these people use it for, eg to get home or just to drive around aimlessly, has no bearing on the legal status of said road.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 16, 2016, 04:38:31 pm
Suburban boom gates policy approved
NEWS/SOUTH-AFRICA/GAUTENG /
03 February 2014 at 10:02am
By: ANNA COX
Johannesburg -
* No private lock can be placed on these gates; and

This only applies to Jhb of course as it is part of their by laws.
For the rest of the country, Andre E's post is relevant
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 04:43:06 pm
Andre E is right imho. A proclaimed road is a road over which a government agency has ownershipnand authority, and theoretically the obligation to carry out maintenance. The road will appear in the asset register of said agency. A.legal process must be followed in the case of deproclamation and same published in the government gazzette.

The number of people using the road, the frequency of use , and the purpose these people use it for, eg to get home or just to drive around aimlessly, has no bearing on the legal status of said road.

This is exactly the problem in identifying these roads. Many were de classified in order to save on maintenance costs, problem is even the road agencies does not know which were. I have made contact with them myself in determining that and they could not confirm nor deny a specific status. If they don't know, who will, in other words why not lock it. Remember, we are not talking about roads carrying volumes of traffic. Even the road you were locked out on will not carry great volumes, even if unlocked.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Rossdog on May 16, 2016, 05:05:46 pm
Captain Obvious, how often has this happened to you in your life? Once, twice, 3 times maybe? Look at the bigger picture and TTFU man.

Unless you were a farmer who has suffered stock loss, poaching, farm murders or theft, you wouldn't really understand. If you are determined to ride on a certain road, do some homework and find out who the owners are and get permission. I bet most would be more than obliging. Remember that not all the people who use the road that offended you so much have intentions as honest and transparent as yours. The gate was obviously locked for a reason.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 05:09:01 pm
Also, if a farmer do confront you don't be harregat about it.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: masehare on May 16, 2016, 05:09:14 pm
So do farm murderers and stock thieves turn around at a locked gate?



Agreed. What do you achieve in terms of security by locking a gate on a public road? Think about it. By doing so you are only looking for conflict. Now everybody wanting to use the (public) road will be treated like a criminal by the person who locked the gate, as explained by the original poster.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 05:16:04 pm
So do farm murderers and stock thieves turn around at a locked gate?



Agreed. What do you achieve in terms of security by locking a gate on a public road? Think about it. By doing so you are only looking for conflict. Now everybody wanting to use the (public) road will be treated like a criminal by the person who locked the gate, as explained by the original poster.

That was covered above.
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on May 16, 2016, 05:28:43 pm
Ok. So i recon a farmer has more than enough justification and reasoning to lock a gate in this worst case scenario which is the basis of all examples given. I agree with their reasoning and support that. Maybe within reason needs to be hashed out more so that every single farmer DOES NOT  lock everything everywhere for anyone be a valid risk or not. How about where a locked gate on a known road to areas that are public and could be occasionally used by joe public have a mandatory sign explaining the reasoning and should passge be required a solution. And im not talking 3 bold lines in emergency red either. Something that would compell traveller good cause to respect the farmers concerns. Then there is strong enough reason to persecute? Isn't that a workable solution where everyone wins something?

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
Title: Re:
Post by: masehare on May 16, 2016, 05:35:39 pm
Ok. So i recon a farmer has more than enough justification and reasoning to lock a gate in this worst case scenario which is the basis of all examples given. I agree with their reasoning and support that. Maybe within reason needs to be hashed out more so that every single farmer DOES NOT  lock everything everywhere for anyone be a valid risk or not. How about where a locked gate on a known road to areas that are public and could be occasionally used by joe public have a mandatory sign explaining the reasoning and should passge be required a solution. And im not talking 3 bold lines in emergency red either. Something that would compell traveller good cause to respect the farmers concerns. Then there is strong enough reason to persecute? Isn't that a workable solution where everyone wins something?

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

Yup, I propose putting a locked gate on the R355 on the Ceres side where the dirt starts. This should provide enough security to all the farmers North of that. Where do you stop?

Another problem here is farmers/businesses putting up gates for more sinister reasons, thus making the idea more unpopular among the general population. I'm talking about the gate at Botelierskop for example.
Title: Re:
Post by: dirtyXT on May 16, 2016, 05:39:13 pm
Well suppose we need something in a it for the farmere other than kindness to get farmers into that. Problem would be many farmers one or two herioc bikers exploring every third year. Ah well was a nice thought

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on May 16, 2016, 05:48:47 pm
A friend has a public road that splits his farm in half. Last year 200 lambs were stolen off his farm by night travelers/thieves. The road is never used by Joe Public only the farmers and the thieves. 200 adult lambs stolen, go do the math. This was in a drought period when he was feeding them too. :(
Because of this and people leaving gates open we will be running into locked gates more and more.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 06:24:41 pm
Bie, I think we can agree to disagree.

If the government is unsure of the status of the road, then the farmer feels justified in locking it.

However by the same token a rider may feel justified in using it.

This leaves me a bit red faced, as I was quite sure that this road was still proclaimed, and perhaps the farmer was quite sure of the opposite.

I am still not sure of the solution, but will definitely think it through a bit more.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 06:35:39 pm
No problem CO, like I said in my very first response, I can understand your frustration, but believe me that gate was not locked without a reason.

When I was a kid none of the roads I have locked now were ever locked. They were graded by the authorities and probably used a few times a year by people other than my father without any problems what so ever. For about the last 20 years they were not maintained at all and I maintain them at my own cost to get access to said property. As the road's condition deteriorated, the amount of other traffic reduced to the point where only myself and those with criminal intent used the road. You would see the vehicle tracks showing where they stopped, etc. Similar to the OP this road used to be a link between two bigger roads, maybe 5km shorter, but with 12 gates on this "shortcut". The alternative road is a much bigger road, in good condition and maintained by the province, also no gates, so "my road" fell in total disuse. I started losing livestock and solar panels were stolen on two occasions along that road because it was completely secluded and anyone could drive the 20 odd km to where he could load 15 sheep. At that point I contacted the roads department in PE to get clarification on the road status, but although the road was indicated on their map it was not even numbered and did not reflect on their system at all, so the gates were locked and will remain locked. I did not apply to have the road scrapped as there is no number to identify it by.

This is not an isolated case. Most if not all the smaller roads does not even feature on their system anymore. In many cases farmers take a collective decision to lock a gate and those using the road either each put their own lock on the chain, or get a key to the lock. Nobody has any business there, so why should they get access at my expense? There is a very good, actually much better alternative road that can be used, but it seems as if some regard their right to recreation of higher value than that of the landowner. Remember on these smaller roads the road reserves are not fenced, you ride right through camps with livestock. Farms are agricultural factories, our ewes is our equipment, lambs, wool and mohair the product we "manufacture". Would you be happy to have anyone have access to ride or walk right through your factory at the dead of night, just to take a shortcut? Surely not, that is why we lock our factory doors if at all possible, even if it may be considered illegal by some.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sparky on May 16, 2016, 06:37:25 pm
Bie, I think we can agree to disagree.

If the government is unsure of the status of the road, then the farmer feels justified in locking it.

However by the same token a rider may feel justified in using it.

This leaves me a bit red faced, as I was quite sure that this road was still proclaimed, and perhaps the farmer was quite sure of the opposite.

I am still not sure of the solution, but will definitely think it through a bit more.

We had a farm in the Stwartland/Sandveld. There was a road going through our farm that showed up on maps as a "public road". This was actually not the case, as the maps were outdated( going back to the 40's)

The road was locked by us for all the reasons stated in previous posts. Until the glider crowd discovered Dasklip pass. They tried to access the road to pick up their mates. Cut locks, left gates open etc.

We had a few of them arrested for trespassing. And it stuck.

My advice would be.... make damn sure you have the land owners permission before you go onto an unknown road. And don't break locks.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: eberhard on May 16, 2016, 06:58:55 pm
Ethekwini Municipality v Brooks (411/09) [2010] ZASCA 74 (27 May 2010)

"Mrs Brooks launched an application in the KZN High Court,
Durban against the municipality (as first respondent in the court below),
seeking, inter alia, an order declaring that the servitude of right of way
over her property does not create a public street as defined in the Ordinance"


"[4] The high court rejected the municipality’s contentions and
granted an order in favour of Mrs Brooks, hence this appeal, which is
before us with leave granted by the court below.
A public street
[5] The answer to the dispute between the parties must be sought in
the definition of ‘public street’ as defined in s 1 of the Ordinance,
namely, as ‘any street which –
(a) has been established by a local authority or other competent authority as a
public street;
(b) has been taken over by or vested in a local authority as a public street in
terms of any law;
(c) the public has acquired the right to use; or
4
(d) which is shown on a general plan or diagram of any private township situate
in the area of a local authority filed in the Deeds Registry or the Surveyor-
General’s Office and to which the owners of erven or lots in such township
have a common right of use.’"

"Order
[38] The appeal is dismissed with costs."


Een baie interessante saak. Die appél regters het 'n regtig goeie beredeneerde uitspraak gelewer. Lees dit.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Tampan on May 16, 2016, 07:08:55 pm
I'm a farmer, and I'm a biker. I've encountered locked gates on rarely used public roads and it surely pissed me off, but I chose to turn around and use an alternative route, which is normally available and also the regular used route in the area. Not my first choice at all, but so be it.

I've luckily not had that many stock thefts and I farm in areas not known to be a high risk in terms of farm murders or general security issues. That said, I have roads running through both farms, both not in regular public use, but regardless, both causes endless k@k. To such an extent that I fenced off the one road, losing more than 240ha of my farm in the process and you can imagine the cost involved. The issue with the odd user, especially hunters during winter made the situation unbearable and I lost many live stock, dying of thirst!
With the second road, I unfortunately do not have the option to lock the gates, but I'm seriously considering locking them from 6pm to 6am and putting up signs at both ends, warning users about this.

Thieves and murderers surely don't turn back at a locked gate, but I can assure you, only one ready and alert farmer on such a road will have them avoid it, if they can. So will anything else, like locked gates, that they know will slow them down in a getaway or make them stop, even if only temporarily. They will avoid attracting attention at all cost.
If they caused trouble, they always try to get to the closest tar road and town and they do not choose "difficult" routes to take them there.

We're living in a rather lawless country, with most of society having lost just about all respect for anything and anybody. Nobody really cares and everything goes. In many cases, farmers do not get any cooperation or help from the from the people who are suppose to apply the law. They are left on their own and have to act and do something themselves, to solve these issues. If the only way is to lock a gate, I sort of respect that. Many farmers deal with security and stock theft issues on a daily basis and they're pretty much on their own in terms of trying to stop this.
I know of a few who close roads only to be spiteful, but they're definitely the minority.

The solution, in my humble opinion? Find out beforehand whether a route is open and if you can't reach anybody, just use a regular route or road. There are many remote, seldom used roads that are open and to expect all to be open all the time is probably not wrong, but some mutual respect will do.

I bet ya, next time you ride a road where you previously popped some locks, you can expect a much more substantial challenge, so do take some serious pooping tools along - I know farmers... :biggrin:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Ama ride ride on May 16, 2016, 07:23:11 pm
Farmers should put up a sign at a strategic spot with a contact nr where they inform potential road users that they locked a certain gate.

I also grew up on a farm and have many friends who are still farming so I am well aware why they lock gates.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 16, 2016, 08:01:46 pm
Will never put my number on a board like that.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 08:04:24 pm
Will never put my number on a board like that.

You could always put the number of the WD who irritated you the most during the previous week.   :lol8:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sabre on May 16, 2016, 08:18:49 pm
Read back, most of these roads are not public roads anymore and are not serviced either anymore. Many of the properties involved are not inhabited, so if left open criminals have all the time in the world to do their thing. If the roads department does not have record of a specific road being part of the public network, how can it be public? We are not talking about big public roads. The roads in question in most cases are nothing more than a tweespoor road, but it used to give access to a property at the back or whatever, but they were open for anyone to use in years gone by. Many roads have been de-commissioned to save on maintenance for the province, yet they still appear on most maps.

The single biker that comes through on a road every third year can definitely not contribute to the safety of the farmer. In 99% of cases, firearms and vehicles are stolen in farm attacks and by locking gates the escape routes are blocked. Same goes for the odd bakkie that comes around to load 15 sheep without me even knowing they are on my farm. Even if left unlocked, most of these roads will not carry one legitimate vehicle per year, so how will that contribute to security? It is definitely more of a liability than anything else.

Tell me how you guys would have handled it if you were a farmer? A road crosses your property, not the main road everybody uses, but an old tweespoor that used to be a public road. That road still appears on maps, even Garmin, yet nobody uses it except criminals who steal you stock and equipment as well as the odd biker who wants to pass every third year? Will you take the financial loss to allow said biker the joy, or will you lock the gate? In your opinion it is not a public road, the provincial roads department cannot confirm that it is a public road and it is not maintained by them any more. Put your cards on the table.




Exactly the way you guys are doing it, maybe more. When it comes to my life, my family's welfare, and, ultimately, the welfare of the country, I will protect my property with every available means
Viva farmers, viva !!!
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ktmmer on May 16, 2016, 08:26:17 pm
Donshael
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: KarooKid on May 16, 2016, 08:29:27 pm
Did you know that if Mr A comes down the road and hits Mr. B's cow who is dawdling across the road, Mr B is responsible even if Mr. C left the gate open?

This statement is not correct in law!
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: wobbler on May 16, 2016, 08:39:08 pm
Last spring I went on a west coast trip to go look at the spring flowers.
Carmen in the Garmin said I can go x way so off I went.
I immediately knew I was entering a farm and treated it accordingly - slow down, leave gates as you found them and stop and chat to the farmer.
I was welcomed onto his farm but was warned that his neighbour locks his gates as he had an entire camp full of lambs escape onto a neighbouring farm and we'd get a frosty reception.
All this over a cup of tea on his stoep.
He was happy to explain an alternate route and drove along from his farm until we got onto the new route.
What a lekker guy!

Moral of the story is that if you take the time, they will too.
Respect is a 2 way street.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 16, 2016, 08:54:05 pm
Did you know that if Mr A comes down the road and hits Mr. B's cow who is dawdling across the road, Mr B is responsible even if Mr. C left the gate open?

This statement is not correct in law!

I may not have the wording spot-on, but the gist is correct as I understand it and my understanding is based on a case won by a the wife of a Think Bike member whose husband died after hitting a cow in the road with his bike.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2016, 08:54:36 pm
Here is an example of one guy who believe he has all the right and everyone has none.
As a farmer I say A hole!
Kom breek my slotte.
As my last contribution to the subject I need to say that despite all the fine and reasoned arguments presented here , it was this contribution that made me see the error of my ways.

 Thank you sir for your insightful analysis into my character.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: JC on May 16, 2016, 09:30:37 pm
Here is an example of one guy who believe he has all the right and everyone has none.
As a farmer I say A hole!
Kom breek my slotte.
As my last contribution to the subject I need to say that despite all the fine and reasoned arguments presented here , it was this contribution that made me see the error of my ways.

 Thank you sir for your insightful analysis into my character.
:imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: RobC on May 16, 2016, 10:20:50 pm
Last spring I went on a west coast trip to go look at the spring flowers.
Carmen in the Garmin said I can go x way so off I went.
I immediately knew I was entering a farm and treated it accordingly - slow down, leave gates as you found them and stop and chat to the farmer.
I was welcomed onto his farm but was warned that his neighbour locks his gates as he had an entire camp full of lambs escape onto a neighbouring farm and we'd get a frosty reception.
All this over a cup of tea on his stoep.
He was happy to explain an alternate route and drove along from his farm until we got onto the new route.
What a lekker guy!

Moral of the story is that if you take the time, they will too.
Respect is a 2 way street.
On the way to Neu Bethesda from Rusoord farm where MM was held part of the route was on the farm adjacent through 5 gates... at gate 2 the guy in the Bolero behind me said he was the farmer and I could leave the gates open, when I got to the farmhouse I stopped for a good chinwag. He had no stock in the paddocks we had driven through so was not worried about the open gates. Gave me excellent directions to the Owl House. He was very appreciative about me insisting to close the gates I had passed through. "Baie anner jaag sommer deur..." Be respectful folks, you meet some interesting people that way. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 16, 2016, 10:34:00 pm
Farmers seem to be aggro people

https://www.youtube.com/v/RId7pH2Md7I
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Scribble on May 16, 2016, 10:37:46 pm
Bie, I think we can agree to disagree.

If the government is unsure of the status of the road, then the farmer feels justified in locking it.

However by the same token a rider may feel justified in using it.

This leaves me a bit red faced, as I was quite sure that this road was still proclaimed, and perhaps the farmer was quite sure of the opposite.

I am still not sure of the solution, but will definitely think it through a bit more.
does the government know their arse from their elbows on any given day ?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: BlueBull2007 on May 17, 2016, 12:53:18 am
A question for the farmers: Would you object if I cut the chain and added a new lock of my own for the next time I come along?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 04:39:00 am
If discussed prior to doing it, I think few will object.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sandban(g)k on May 17, 2016, 05:17:24 am
I agree with Bie.

From this thread its clear that most bikers will respect that locked gate (might still be angry), but look for another way round. In 10 bikers in the 20 years it will take for all to choose that road, it would be one or 2 that would regard his right of way above that pf someone who makes a living and life there.

Those guys are not usually the calm, relaxed and open types, so the discussion with the farmer might get interesting should they come accross each other  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2wdrift on May 17, 2016, 05:30:07 am
A question for the farmers: Would you object if I cut the chain and added a new lock of my own for the next time I come along?


If it was my farm I would probably not mind as long as you introduce yourself and state your intent. If I just found a extra lock on my chain I would probably bypass it or get a new chain. I would see it as a sign of an impending foxtrot uniform with either thieves or random people accessing my land for whatever reason.

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Single Cylinder on May 17, 2016, 05:58:46 am
Do not break locks or chains, turn around and keep your neck wound in.  :ricky:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Lakey on May 17, 2016, 07:07:10 am
This has pissed me off big time
I am one of "those farmers " who lock gates on a " public road". The police know about it and have said that although it is illegal they wont interfere since the gates are opened during the day and they know how to contact us to have them opened if necessary
Let me explain my situation
1 In a 3 year period  I had around 72 cattle stolen. Over 60 were recovered not by police but by us being proactive on our farm
2  I have dog hunters coming in regularly with up to 40 dogs at a time. The police come in after the fact
3 I have poachers with guns ( even a police captain was caught) shooting game on our property. We have to try apprehend the guy.
4 Snarers come in and  set traps
5  We have had  cows slaughtered in the veld with a 3 week old calf refusing to leave her remains
6 One Sunday evening while talking to my brother on the land line the phone went dead. Next morning I found 900 metres of the phone cable was stolen from right outside my house. the time? 7 pm. Telkom won't replace the line and we have bad cellphone reception.
7 The next weekend  they stole a solar panel and pump worth R35000 100 m away from our houses.
8 The road in question isn't a thoroughfare road but those that use it regularly have keys.  It is also maintained by OURSELVES at IMMENSE cost because the dept is too useless to grade it.
9 I was once confronted at a gate by 2 Chinese nationals wanting to know where the road came out. Those said 2 were arrested  later with perlemoen.

AND YOU CAptain Obvious moan about your right of riding around the area unhindered above someones security? Go tell someone who gives a damn.
If anyone comes around or phones and requests the gates to be opened at anytime we will gladly open them. Even come have a cup of coffee.( These gates are usually opened during the day on weekdays but may be closed earlier on weekends )
BUt your attitude towards this is crap and please forgive me if I don't welcome you with open arms
I'm embarrassed to notice that you are from the EC .
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Mapog on May 17, 2016, 07:53:49 am
I wonder how many city folk know how much work it is to sort and class two full camps of cattle or sheep that got mixed up.

If you have 2 camps of say 300 ewes(600 in total) with a lamb each and they get mixed, just imagine the work that goes into getting every lamb and ewe together again........!

Guess its much easier to just cut a lock?

Anyways, at the current rate that farmers are harrased in this country, it wouldnt be a problem in thee future:

You would just go and buy your Aussie meat at Woollys and ride bike wherever you want.

Africa,---------- here everyone does whatever he/she wishes to do without thinking about the consequences for other folks?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: BlueBull2007 on May 17, 2016, 08:59:23 am
Thanks Bie & 2wdrift - Your answer was spot on and a nice solution to the issue and how bikers can get around without upsetting anyone IMO. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 09:03:04 am
I wonder how many city folk know how much work it is to sort and class two full camps of cattle or sheep that got mixed up.


Or, the damage involved when 45 hungry cattle walk through an open gate into a mealie field.

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 09:04:15 am
Thanks Bie & 2wdrift - Your answer was spot on and a nice solution to the issue and how bikers can get around without upsetting anyone IMO. :thumleft:

The problem, as always BB, is the 1% who couldn't care less. 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: BlueBull2007 on May 17, 2016, 09:16:36 am
Thanks Bie & 2wdrift - Your answer was spot on and a nice solution to the issue and how bikers can get around without upsetting anyone IMO. :thumleft:

The problem, as always BB, is the 1% who couldn't care less.  

Sure.   Life is what you make of it.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Mikie on May 17, 2016, 09:27:48 am
I have never really dont routes with gates, but there is a big possibility I will later this year and definitely in future too, would be nice to be able to knwo where there are definite locked gates, and possibly just avoid those routes and frustration. Anyone keen on adding to a map somewhere?
Will benefit us all with route planning
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 10:10:52 am
Consider the roads indicated in broken lines on Garmin at risk.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Ama ride ride on May 17, 2016, 10:29:02 am
I think some of the farmers here miss the point.

Not a single poster don't agree that a locked gate does not have any security (or farming) benefits. However since the locked gate is still a public road the onus are on the person who locked the gate to provide information to any would be user.

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2016, 11:09:16 am
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way of the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 17, 2016, 11:21:52 am
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

 :eek7: ek is jammer maar goeie F@k nou is jy net besig om 'n P@$S te wees
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 11:33:28 am
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

Perhaps you could have pointed him to your later responses as he clearly did not read them prior to posting?

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: The TRANSPORTER on May 17, 2016, 11:39:57 am
 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 17, 2016, 11:45:14 am
To all the farmers: I put this to you..

I understand closing a servitude road or access road on your farm for security. But lets take the road below as an example.

The gravel road between Kenhardt and Pofadder crosses a couple of farms and there are existing gates over the road.
If I remember correctly there are few fences next to the road.
There is also an alternative or main road to get to Pofadder or Kenhardt.

Would it be reasonable to close these gates over the road?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: adv on May 17, 2016, 11:47:24 am
Public road stays public road. Understandably we live in a country which is now a free for all and measures need to be put in place.

If there is no sign or number to call and I'm forced to break the lock (due to range), I will.  Simple as that.  Farmers out in the sticks also need to understand that.


I once rode from Laingsburg to Prins Albert on a road with a million gates. 160km in (40 from PA), a farmer decided to lock his gate. (no number to call, I don't even think I had signal) I had no choice to break the lock because obviously I could not backtrack.


Shit happens. We all deal with it.

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ktmmer on May 17, 2016, 11:48:58 am
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

Please stick to your word !  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 11:52:54 am
Those complaining about the farmers and their gates should rather appreciate the fact that they don't set up a toll booth at each!   >:D
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 17, 2016, 11:53:48 am
Some observation -

Don't farmers use cattle grids to stop livestock from going through a gate :pot:

If I got to a gate and it was locked I cant see myself leaving my bike at the gate, doing a 10km route march in my boots :biggrin: to the farm house having a cup of tea with the farmer and getting the key..... :biggrin:

It just so happened on Sunday that I got to a gate (wasn't locked) but it said private property....and I could swear it was the only way for us to get to the next town by gravel (not 100% sure) so I went back onto the tar and went another route. I've been shot at in the army and I never really enjoyed the experience :imaposer:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: adv on May 17, 2016, 11:57:15 am
Some observation -

Don't farmers use cattle grids to stop livestock from going through a gate :pot:

If I got to a gate and it was locked I cant see myself leaving my bike at the gate, doing a 10km route march in my boots :biggrin: to the farm house having a cup of tea with the farmer and getting the key..... :biggrin:

It just so happened on Sunday that I got to a gate (wasn't locked) but it said private property....and I could swear it was the only way for us to get to the next town by gravel (not 100% sure) so I went back onto the tar and went another route. I've been shot at in the army and I never really enjoyed the experience :imaposer:

Fsck, must be an EC thing. Move to the WC, things are friendly here.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 11:58:52 am
Public road stays public road. Understandably we live in a country which is now a free for all and measures need to be put in place.

If there is no sign or number to call and I'm forced to break the lock (due to range), I will.  Simple as that.  Farmers out in the sticks also need to understand that.

I once rode from Laingsburg to Prins Albert on a road with a million gates. 160km in (40 from PA), a farmer decided to lock his gate. (no number to call, I don't even think I had signal) I had no choice to break the lock because obviously I could not backtrack.

Shit happens. We all deal with it.


If the authorities don't even know which of the smaller roads are still public roads, how would you be so sure whether it is when you get to a locked gate? Break the lock, but be ready for action if it proved to be a private road. Then you tresspass and you cannot even plead ignorance as you broke the lock to gain entry. Be my guest.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 17, 2016, 12:04:57 pm
Those complaining about the farmers and their gates should rather appreciate the fact that they don't set up a toll booth at each!   >:D
I would gladly pay to have someone open a gate for me...When we used to ride in the Transkei some entrepreneur decided to charge us R5 to ride through he's piece of turf (just as you turn down after trennerys) only problem was after the first 10 bikes went through he went to the shebeen so the next lot never paid :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2wdrift on May 17, 2016, 12:06:46 pm
The areas I ride tend to have gates, mostly open and if closed they arent locked. If I see another car or person I usually stop and make sure if I am welcome in the area. If I see a locked gate in my area I turn around. If it is on a public road and I cannot turn around due to fuel I would break the lock and try and find the farmer to explain, if this is difficult I would leave a note with my number and maybe a few bucks. If this is a long ways from towns I will keep in mind that a new lock is not just around the corner and buying a new one can take a few hours from remote places.

If I knew I could face locked gates in a remote area I would perhaps take a lock or two with if I need to break one I can leave a new lock there with the keys in it. Or if I can find the farmer take the keys to him. The guy may understand especially if you leave him a nice solid lock.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 12:16:02 pm
Some observation -

Don't farmers use cattle grids to stop livestock from going through a gate :pot:

If I got to a gate and it was locked I cant see myself leaving my bike at the gate, doing a 10km route march in my boots :biggrin: to the farm house having a cup of tea with the farmer and getting the key..... :biggrin:

It just so happened on Sunday that I got to a gate (wasn't locked) but it said private property....and I could swear it was the only way for us to get to the next town by gravel (not 100% sure) so I went back onto the tar and went another route. I've been shot at in the army and I never really enjoyed the experience :imaposer:

You can keep mocking the effectiveness of locked gates, but in actual fact you only advertise your ignorance. Believe me, it works.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Ama ride ride on May 17, 2016, 12:42:12 pm
Bie, for the sake of clarity please give some info on what you expect people must do when arrive at a locked gate over a public road.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 12:47:58 pm
If they can confirm it is in fact still a proclaimed road and there is no way to contact the landowner or neighbour and turning back is not an option, break the lock and continue. Just remember, if you are not sure whether it is in fact a proclaimed road, and you break the lock on a private road, it amounts to me coming to your house and breaking open your front door. Not sure you would be happy about that, not so?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 17, 2016, 12:49:41 pm
If they can confirm it is in fact still a proclaimed road and there is no way to contact the landowner or neighbour and turning back is not an option, break the lock and continue. Just remember, if you are not sure whether it is in fact a proclaimed road, and you break the lock on a private road, it amounts to me coming to your house and breaking open your front door. Not sure you would be happy about that, not so?
ok so if someone could prove to you that the road is legitimate would you undo your gate and fencing?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 12:51:58 pm
There is no way that the gate and fencing is illegitimate. The fact that the gate might be locked is under dispute.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 17, 2016, 12:53:59 pm
but i was asking is if it came to light that they found some map and it was intended to be a public road would you then remove your gate lock?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ETS on May 17, 2016, 12:56:48 pm
I reckon you guys are being very shortsighted. Rather be aware af the farmers plight and take a different route? Is this the norm for our country to be "onverdraagsaam"??? Faaak guys, it is difficult enough being a farmer in SA. Cut the guys some slack here :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 12:57:33 pm
No I wont. Still cheaper to pay the R1000 fine for locking the gate, but my livestock and equipment is relatively safe.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ETS on May 17, 2016, 12:58:01 pm
No I wont. Still cheaper to pay the R1000 fine for locking the gate, but my livestock and equipment is relatively safe.

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: meteldog on May 17, 2016, 01:01:10 pm
A question for the farmers: Would you object if I cut the chain and added a new lock of my own for the next time I come along?

Probably the best compromise if farmers have had to resort locking gates that they should not be entitled to lock out of sheer frustration and fear. You can pick up a pack of locks that all use the same key fairly cheaply, cut the chain not the lock. If the farmer is uncomfortable with the additional lock on his chain, I guess he could always fill the lock with Pratleys or something.

Its frustrating to find locked gates on proclaimed roads that come up on SA Street Maps (not Track4Africa), sometimes backtracking may not an option..
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 01:01:29 pm
No I wont. Still cheaper to pay the R1000 fine for locking the gate, but my livestock and equipment is relatively safe.

 :thumleft:

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 17, 2016, 01:03:08 pm
No I wont. Still cheaper to pay the R1000 fine for locking the gate, but my livestock and equipment is relatively safe.
fair enough then, but in taking that stance you cannot complain should someone remove lock, close gate and pass through? right? i feel this whole discussion was mute to begin with.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Andre E on May 17, 2016, 01:03:46 pm
For fucks sakes, chaps! How often do you guys battle with locked gates on public roads. The only disputes I have ever seen about gated roads are normally between farmers themselves.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 17, 2016, 01:04:03 pm
Ok so this seems to be a case of people arguing past each other.

I think what myself, Bie and others from the farmer camp is referring to are roads like this, mostly unused and very off the beaten track

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxToBVLemJI5V4IHfbXpGMWoMtHze27EHneo6bWqoJrQatKjFtDg)

This road runs from Naude's Nek to Tiffindel via Cairntoul along the Lesotho border, is unfenced most of the way and has had locked gates at times (still does sometimes). It crosses many farms and this area has previously seen probably some of the worst stock theft in the country, thankfully now under control.

vs

(http://www.henry.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Karoo-800x400.jpg)

Get the point?

*images shamelessly stolen of internet


Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 17, 2016, 01:06:00 pm
For fucks sakes, chaps! How often do you guys battle with locked gates on public roads. The only disputes I have ever seen about gated roads are normally between farmers themselves.
another fair point, only 3 times every third year. doesnt make it any less irritating.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: heinzz on May 17, 2016, 01:07:18 pm
I have been at both ends of this stick but have never broken a lock on a closed gate

Just for clarity, don't accept that all roads indicated on certain maps and or a GPS are all public roads or a servitude.

I have a used to be road that goes through my farm that has never been a public road nor registered as a servitude but were mainly used by neighboring farmers many years ago by permission of the land owner at the time. This road appears on the GPS maps but is private property.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Chris_M on May 17, 2016, 01:07:33 pm
There is a neat video clip on youtube that illustrates how to pop a lock with two spanners.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Chris_M on May 17, 2016, 01:10:15 pm


https://youtu.be/1jJP0CcuJyE


Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 17, 2016, 01:14:00 pm
Ok so this seems to be a case of people arguing past each other.

I think what myself, Bie and others from the farmer camp is referring to are roads like this, mostly unused and very off the beaten track

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxToBVLemJI5V4IHfbXpGMWoMtHze27EHneo6bWqoJrQatKjFtDg)

This road runs from Naude's Nek to Tiffindel via Cairntoul along the Lesotho border, is unfenced most of the way and has had locked gates at times (still does sometimes). It crosses many farms and this area has previously seen probably some of the worst stock theft in the country, thankfully now under control.

vs

(http://www.henry.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Karoo-800x400.jpg)

Get the point?

*images shamelessly stolen of internet




Point is......which of the two roads would I rather ride?? The top one of course!
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: heinzz on May 17, 2016, 01:19:20 pm
Ok so this seems to be a case of people arguing past each other.

I think what myself, Bie and others from the farmer camp is referring to are roads like this, mostly unused and very off the beaten track

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxToBVLemJI5V4IHfbXpGMWoMtHze27EHneo6bWqoJrQatKjFtDg)

This road runs from Naude's Nek to Tiffindel via Cairntoul along the Lesotho border, is unfenced most of the way and has had locked gates at times (still does sometimes). It crosses many farms and this area has previously seen probably some of the worst stock theft in the country, thankfully now under control.





We did that road a few weeks ago and it felt like we were intruding on private property.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: heinzz on May 17, 2016, 01:21:29 pm
There is a neat video clip on youtube that illustrates how to pop a lock with two spanners.

Same way they break the lock on your front gate to steal your bike or what ever.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Scribble on May 17, 2016, 01:21:36 pm
Ok so this seems to be a case of people arguing past each other.

I think what myself, Bie and others from the farmer camp is referring to are roads like this, mostly unused and very off the beaten track

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxToBVLemJI5V4IHfbXpGMWoMtHze27EHneo6bWqoJrQatKjFtDg)

This road runs from Naude's Nek to Tiffindel via Cairntoul along the Lesotho border, is unfenced most of the way and has had locked gates at times (still does sometimes). It crosses many farms and this area has previously seen probably some of the worst stock theft in the country, thankfully now under control.





We did that road a few weeks ago and it felt like we were intruding on private property.
Did you submit your request in triplicate timeously?
or break the locks ?
 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Geel Kat on May 17, 2016, 01:23:26 pm
As mens jou roete volgens die inligting beskikbaar beplan het (maar besef dat dit dalk nie 100% korrek is nie) en dan by 'n hek kom wat gesluit is en te min brandstof het om te backtrack, is daar nie veel van 'n keuse nie.

In so geval, sou jy die slot breek:
- Sorg dat jy 'n ander slot of kontant het om te vergoed vir die skade
- Probeer ten minste die grond eienaar inlig indien moontlik
- Hoop en bid die boer is 'n redelike mens en ly nie aan Pistotis (i.e Pistorius sindroom) nie, geen deur of hek gaan jou lewe red nie.

Probeer maar self redelik wees en jouself in die ander party sy posisie sien.

As ek by 'n hek kom wat gesluit is sal my eerst keuse wees om te kyk of ek die boer in die hande kan kry en toestemming kry om aan te ry.
As dit nie werk nie sal ek eerder omdraai.
Laaste opsie is om die slot te breek.

In die verlede was daar ook gevalle van mense wat drade knip of platdruk omdat hekke met moerse slotte gesluit is, dan moet jy maar jou pakslae vat as dit gebeur...
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: heinzz on May 17, 2016, 01:25:14 pm
Ok so this seems to be a case of people arguing past each other.

I think what myself, Bie and others from the farmer camp is referring to are roads like this, mostly unused and very off the beaten track

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxToBVLemJI5V4IHfbXpGMWoMtHze27EHneo6bWqoJrQatKjFtDg)

This road runs from Naude's Nek to Tiffindel via Cairntoul along the Lesotho border, is unfenced most of the way and has had locked gates at times (still does sometimes). It crosses many farms and this area has previously seen probably some of the worst stock theft in the country, thankfully now under control.





We did that road a few weeks ago and it felt like we were intruding on private property.
Did you submit your request in triplicate timeously?
or break the locks ?
 

No, just opened and closed the gates that were closed.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: heinzz on May 17, 2016, 01:28:09 pm
As mens jou roete volgens die inligting beskikbaar beplan het (maar besef dat dit dalk nie 100% korrek is nie) en dan by 'n hek kom wat gesluit is en te min brandstof het om te backtrack, is daar nie veel van 'n keuse nie.

In so geval, sou jy die slot breek:
- Sorg dat jy 'n ander slot of kontant het om te vergoed vir die skade
- Probeer ten minste die grond eienaar inlig indien moontlik
- Hoop en bid die boer is 'n redelike mens en ly nie aan Pistotis (i.e Pistorius sindroom) nie, geen deur of hek gaan jou lewe red nie.

Probeer maar self redelik wees en jouself in die ander party sy posisie sien.

As ek by 'n hek kom wat gesluit is sal my eerst keuse wees om te kyk of ek die boer in die hande kan kry en toestemming kry om aan te ry.
As dit nie werk nie sal ek eerder omdraai.
Laaste opsie is om die slot te breek.

In die verlede was daar ook gevalle van mense wat drade knip of platdruk omdat hekke met moerse slotte gesluit is, dan moet jy maar jou pakslae vat as dit gebeur...

Dit is presies waaroor dit gaan, en as dit moet, sal die boere 99% van die tyd uithelp.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 01:30:39 pm
No I wont. Still cheaper to pay the R1000 fine for locking the gate, but my livestock and equipment is relatively safe.
fair enough then, but in taking that stance you cannot complain should someone remove lock, close gate and pass through? right? i feel this whole discussion was mute to begin with.

Did you mean moot?  If so, I disagree.  I thought I learned a lot and also saw two sides to a complex story.  More interesting than I originally thought it would be.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 01:37:41 pm
I have been at both ends of this stick but have never broken a lock on a closed gate

Just for clarity, don't accept that all roads indicated on certain maps and or a GPS are all public roads or a servitude.

I have a used to be road that goes through my farm that has never been a public road nor registered as a servitude but were mainly used by neighboring farmers many years ago by permission of the land owner at the time. This road appears on the GPS maps but is private property.

Indeed and there are many of those.  Check the map I posted earlier.  If GPS is to be believed, in that area, even the fire breaks are roads.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Frog on May 17, 2016, 01:39:57 pm
For me there is a big difference between a closed gate and a locked gate
If it is a public road and the farmer needs to keep his livestock enclosed I am more than happy to spend the day opening and closing gates.
But after doing so for a few hours and then, without warning, suddenly finding a locked one is a different story
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 01:42:44 pm
No I wont. Still cheaper to pay the R1000 fine for locking the gate, but my livestock and equipment is relatively safe.
fair enough then, but in taking that stance you cannot complain should someone remove lock, close gate and pass through? right? i feel this whole discussion was mute to begin with.

How would that "someone" without a doubt know it is a public road which will entitle him to break the lock? If I as landowner could not even determine that at the roads department, he surely runs a great risk of breaking and entering or trespassing if that gate was legally locked. Like I said, How would you feel if I break down your front door?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 17, 2016, 01:48:28 pm
No I wont. Still cheaper to pay the R1000 fine for locking the gate, but my livestock and equipment is relatively safe.
fair enough then, but in taking that stance you cannot complain should someone remove lock, close gate and pass through? right? i feel this whole discussion was mute to begin with.

Did you mean moot?  If so, I disagree.  I thought I learned a lot and also saw two sides to a complex story.  More interesting than I originally thought it would be.
Can't say I learned much except that people still think that, breaking the law to suit themselves is justifiable......and that's nothing new in South Africa.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 02:03:22 pm
I learned the same thing. Without proof of whether a road is private or not some feel entitled to simply break a lock and enter. But again, like you say, nothing new in SA
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 17, 2016, 02:04:40 pm
Ok so this seems to be a case of people arguing past each other.

I think what myself, Bie and others from the farmer camp is referring to are roads like this, mostly unused and very off the beaten track

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxToBVLemJI5V4IHfbXpGMWoMtHze27EHneo6bWqoJrQatKjFtDg)

This road runs from Naude's Nek to Tiffindel via Cairntoul along the Lesotho border, is unfenced most of the way and has had locked gates at times (still does sometimes). It crosses many farms and this area has previously seen probably some of the worst stock theft in the country, thankfully now under control.

We did that road a few weeks ago and it felt like we were intruding on private property.


From Naude's nek to the police post at Cairntoul is a public road (I think), beyond that I believe it may be private or servitude. It was initially built for the police to patrol the border and for farmers to access their land. Roads like the volunteershoek pass from Wartrail to Tiffindell was also build by the farmers and is actually a private road. The pass up Carlisleshoek from Rhodes to Tiffindel another grey area as its only maintenance is done by Tiffindell and local farmers.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: heinzz on May 17, 2016, 02:05:47 pm
I learned the same thing. Without proof of whether a road is private or not some feel entitled to simply break a lock and enter. But again, like you say, nothing new in SA

I call it an general attitude of entitlement.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 17, 2016, 02:10:35 pm
I learned the same thing. Without proof of whether a road is private or not some feel entitled to simply break a lock and enter. But again, like you say, nothing new in SA

If we were playing chess against each other i would call this one a stalemate..... :biggrin: :lol8: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 17, 2016, 02:13:41 pm
Did you submit your request in triplicate timeously?
or break the locks ?

Consider this, gates left open by passing motorists leads to say 500 sheep "wandering" into Lesotho. Loss of about R1 000 000 + .

People seem to grossly underestimate the challenges and risks associated with farming. One idiot leaving a gate open can lead to your financial ruin (worst case I know)

Also when "As far as I know" a proclaimed road turns into "private road", should the farmer sue you for trespassing and have you locked up? I am willing to bet 99.9% of farmers who lock gates will open them for you if you make the effort to ask, especially on roads that are grey areas.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 17, 2016, 02:14:51 pm
 :imaposer: jaja spelling natzi's. MOOT then. dammit you knew what i meant.  :deal: no what i have learned in this as it doesn't matter, no one is willing to budge and will do what ever they feel suits them.  the end. while Bie i understand your predicament, and fully support you're right to protect yourself. with no one offering a solution or willing to budge an inch we must suffer the consequences.

if regular visitors knew of and about the gates no doubt they would either factor that into their trip or go around it. it must then be the guys exploring and coming across an unexpected gate. the farmers could help here with supplying information, or not. there is space for co-existing. well not if no one wants to do anything or meet in the middle.

bottom line, we cant avoid and be mindful of what we don't know about, i personally would be very mindful but only more so because i now know. although i was mindful before all this so horses for courses. you have to cater for the arseholes and the gautengers blasting through on their every 3rd year jaunt through the country.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 02:21:53 pm
you have to cater for the arseholes and the gautengers blasting through on their every 3rd year jaunt through the country.

Are you saying everyone who is not a Gautenger is an arsehole?  Eina!  I doubt those Eastern Capies would agree.   :ricky:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Mikie on May 17, 2016, 02:23:56 pm
My Driveway in Kyalami is registered on Google maps as a street thats never existed, we dotn have a lock on our gate, its just an motorised gate  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: dirtyXT on May 17, 2016, 02:35:40 pm
you have to cater for the arseholes and the gautengers blasting through on their every 3rd year jaunt through the country.

Are you saying everyone who is not a Gautenger is an arsehole?  Eina!  I doubt those Eastern Capies would agree.   :ricky:
:imaposer: well I am both a PE boy and a Gautenger so i can throw things like that about.  :pot: :ricky:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Fudmucker on May 17, 2016, 02:48:18 pm
AFAIK:
You cannot legally put a gate across a road with a N (National) R (Provincial) or S (District Municipality) designation.
Those are the only roads over which we riders have general public right of access.
Any farmer along such road must fence his property along either side and prevent animals from getting onto the road.
If it is not N, R or S designated, then it is a private road and can be gated off.
Where a neighbour has a servitude to get access across another farm,
only the registered owner of the servitude has that right of access, not the general public.

e.g. ESCOM has registered servitude access to all land over which their powerlines run.
That doesn't mean you can ride the ESCOM servitude without the landowner's permission...!
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 05:07:22 pm
e.g. ESCOM has registered servitude access to all land over which their powerlines run.
That doesn't mean you can ride the ESCOM servitude without the landowner's permission...!

Eskom Meneer!  Eskom.  Has been since 1986.  (Sorry Wooly, but I couldn't help myself) 

There is no such a thing as ESCOM anymore.  It died.  It is dead like that well known Norwegian Blue.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Mapog on May 17, 2016, 06:24:43 pm
Hoe se hulle: Leef en laat leef.

Of loop eers n ent in n ander man se skoene voordat jy oordeel.

Net jammer ons leef so vir onself in die land....?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 17, 2016, 06:47:20 pm
My ryplek in die onmiddelike omgewing van Stellenbosch, het n transformasie ondergaan met die koop van grond deur buitelanders, wat dan onmiddelik n elektriese heining om sy grond span.

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Casting from Turd on May 17, 2016, 06:53:52 pm
Captain Obvious, how often has this happened to you in your life? Once, twice, 3 times maybe? Look at the bigger picture and TTFU man.

Unless you were a farmer who has suffered stock loss, poaching, farm murders or theft, you wouldn't really understand. If you are determined to ride on a certain road, do some homework and find out who the owners are and get permission. I bet most would be more than obliging. Remember that not all the people who use the road that offended you so much have intentions as honest and transparent as yours. The gate was obviously locked for a reason.
The gate is locked because some proes straat pretoria comes down there ata moerova speed and leaves the thefucken thing open.

The next time you bite into a nice juicy chop from the braai.....  remember to thank the farmer.

A really good mate of mne is a farmer and locks gats. If you knwe the finantial losses he has due to stock theft you would puke.


captain Obvious......  WTFU.  one little locked gate and a small in      conviniance for you might just save a life and hundreds of thousands of rands.
Jasaas weet jy, fokkken town clowns.

rant off
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: The TRANSPORTER on May 17, 2016, 07:06:33 pm
Farmers lock everything up,far better for you ,your stock and security and safety...living in a war zone these days.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Casting from Turd on May 17, 2016, 07:08:29 pm
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way of the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

ek stap in......  Maak kak en loop uit.


I am with lakey on this one. i have been on patrol on his farm and found gates opened by someone that has cut the lock
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 17, 2016, 07:10:49 pm
This excuse of stock theft I find a bit far-fetched.

If I wanted to steal some sheep, would I not break a lock? Or cut your fence, or push it flat?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 07:20:32 pm
This excuse of stock theft I find a bit far-fetched.

If I wanted to steal some sheep, would I not break a lock? Or cut your fence, or push it flat?

It is not about that Danie.  Of course a criminal will just break the lock.  This has been discussed higher up.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Lakey on May 17, 2016, 07:21:50 pm
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

Perhaps you could have pointed him to your later responses as he clearly did not read them prior to posting?




I read his other posts. They just pissed me off more.
It is not about the locked gates as much as his OBVIOUS arrogance and sense of entitlement to go where he pleases without a thought to others. This oke doesnt pay towards the road repair or give a shit about my patrolling at night but about his right to ride though peoples farms not for any reason but for pleasure. If it was an emergency it would be a different issue altogether.

I hope you, Captain Obvious, dont one day need to knock on a farmers door for help in the middle of nowhere and the farmer beats up as that is what they do in your opinion.
Oh. And please dont eat anything that comes from a farm. Your support isnt needed
 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 07:38:09 pm
I hope you dont one day need to knock on a farmers door for help in the middle of nowhere and the farmer beats up as that is what they do in your opinion.
Oh. And please dont eat anything that comes from a farm. Your support isnt needed
 

Listen dude!  Are you sure you are reading the other posts?  Really sure?  Reading with comprehension?  

You just kakked all over me, but let me help you.  This is what I have said in this thread.


Think about the other side of the coin.  Gates left open.  On many farms this can and have led to expensive damage.  I know my uncle locks gates these days, because of damaged suffered due to a gate left open.



and

Did you know that if Mr A comes down the road and hits Mr. B's cow who is dawdling across the road, Mr B is responsible even if Mr. C left the gate open?

and

PS, remember you break locks at your own risk, so rather don't do it if you are not strong or fast.  ;)

He also robs a farmer and a farmer community of security that they thought they had.  

and

So do farm murderers and stock thieves turn around at a locked gate?



No they don't, but ....
.... when being chased by the local SAPS, local Farmer's Safety Group, etc. they can get trapped in an area.  
..... good locks indicate something to the patrols.  Broken locks something else.
.... unlocked gates can be left open.  My cattle walks through and chows your crops.

The list goes on.  

and

At this point I feel the farmer is acting illegally, but also understand the concerns raised by farmers in this thread. As to the solution I have no idea.

It is indeed a conundrum.  One I didn't understand until I saw the issue on my uncles farm in real life.  It is aggravated by the modern maps we have.   It shows pretty much all roads and do not differentiate between private and public.  See pic below.  This is the area of my uncle's farm.  The bits I did in blue is public roads.  The rest are private.  No way to see that on the Garmap version I am using.  Some of those private roads are in a much better condition than the public roads as well.



and

Also, if a farmer do confront you don't be harregat about it.

There are more.

You really should read with more comprehension.   You treat someone on your side like this, I can only wonder how you treat those who differ from you.  

Blixum!  If I ever need help in your area, I rather crawl 1000 miles, on my hands and knees, naked, for help from an armed robber.  

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on May 17, 2016, 07:38:55 pm
Lots of pages here and ive read some of them
I live on a plot of some 80 hectares. The road to my little plot is on a public road frequented by some additional maplotters an their families. 6 including a poultry business.
The front gate is locked. I put my own combination lock on to have the ease of allowing my guests access. This was frequently bypassed by the maplotters essentially locking me out. To the point where i complained to the farmers arseotiation, fire department , roads department , police, trzffic department and every other aresociation i could think of without success, including our esteemed local councillor at the time. The police told me to pull the pole out the ground or cut the lock. Every time i went thru.
I have added bits of chain that make it easier for the plotters to keep my lock separate but easier for my guests it seems to lock them out.
When you have something valuable they will come fetch it, lock or no lock on a 1.2m fence line. An when you place the locked gate at a choke point so much easier to jump you at the locked gate, drive your bakkie to your house load it up, beat the shit out of you, rape your wife and fuckoff in your bakkie with all your stuff.
These gates on my road are locked by ex servicemen and women and current police people. Makes me think wtf is going on apart from the stupidity of locking up a public road.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 17, 2016, 07:39:33 pm
This excuse of stock theft I find a bit far-fetched.

If I wanted to steal some sheep, would I not break a lock? Or cut your fence, or push it flat?

Believe me, it makes a difference. Criminals are like water, they run on the easiest spots first. They will avoid locked farms, believe me. We all know they can break a lock, but it rarely happens.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Lakey on May 17, 2016, 07:48:05 pm
Bear
Sorry if you think I kakked all over you
It wasn't directed at you but used your post where you thought that I hadn't read COs posts
You will notice that I said i HAD READ HIS POSTS
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 07:54:40 pm
Bear
Sorry if you think I kakked all over you
It wasn't directed at you but used your post where you thought that I hadn't read COs posts
You will notice that I said i HAD READ HIS POSTS

Some advice. Avoid talking to two people in the same post without using their names in future.

Anyway ...   :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Lakey on May 17, 2016, 07:58:20 pm
I agree. therefore I suggest you go back and read your quote( 3rd last on page 5) that I copied with HIs and then read mine
It will put it into context for you
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 08:04:23 pm
I agree. therefore I suggest you go back and read your quote that I copied with HIs and then read mine
It will put it into context for you

Well, if you insist, here it is.

I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

Perhaps you could have pointed him to your later responses as he clearly did not read them prior to posting?




I read his other posts. They just pissed me off more.
It is not about the locked gates as much as his OBVIOUS arrogance and sense of entitlement to go where he pleases without a thought to others. This oke doesnt pay towards the road repair or give a shit about my patrolling at night but about his right to ride though peoples farms not for any reason but for pleasure. If it was an emergency it would be a different issue altogether.


I hope you dont one day need to knock on a farmers door for help in the middle of nowhere and the farmer beats up as that is what they do in your opinion.
Oh. And please dont eat anything that comes from a farm. Your support isnt needed
 

Blue text, you are clearly talking to me.  Red text, the reader must somehow figure you have now stopped talking to me, but have started talking to to Capt Obvious?  How?

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Lakey on May 17, 2016, 08:18:05 pm
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

Perhaps you could have pointed him to your later responses as he clearly did not read them prior to posting?




I read his other posts. They just pissed me off more.
It is not about the locked gates as much as his OBVIOUS arrogance and sense of entitlement to go where he pleases without a thought to others. This oke doesnt pay towards the road repair or give a shit about my patrolling at night but about his right to ride though peoples farms not for any reason but for pleasure. If it was an emergency it would be a different issue altogether.

I hope you, Captain Obvious, dont one day need to knock on a farmers door for help in the middle of nowhere and the farmer beats up as that is what they do in your opinion.
Oh. And please C O dont eat anything that comes from a farm. Your support isnt needed
 
 

I have rectified my error Bear
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: JC on May 17, 2016, 08:23:44 pm
Captain Obvious, how often has this happened to you in your life? Once, twice, 3 times maybe? Look at the bigger picture and TTFU man.

Unless you were a farmer who has suffered stock loss, poaching, farm murders or theft, you wouldn't really understand. If you are determined to ride on a certain road, do some homework and find out who the owners are and get permission. I bet most would be more than obliging. Remember that not all the people who use the road that offended you so much have intentions as honest and transparent as yours. The gate was obviously locked for a reason.
The gate is locked because some proes straat pretoria comes down there ata moerova speed and leaves the thefucken thing open.

The next time you bite into a nice juicy chop from the braai.....  remember to thank the farmer.

A really good mate of mne is a farmer and locks gats. If you knwe the finantial losses he has due to stock theft you would puke.


captain Obvious......  WTFU.  one little locked gate and a small in      conviniance for you might just save a life and hundreds of thousands of rands.
Jasaas weet jy, fokkken town clowns.

rant off

is daai nie jou target market nie  ???
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 17, 2016, 08:31:32 pm
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

Perhaps you could have pointed him to your later responses as he clearly did not read them prior to posting?




I read his other posts. They just pissed me off more.
It is not about the locked gates as much as his OBVIOUS arrogance and sense of entitlement to go where he pleases without a thought to others. This oke doesnt pay towards the road repair or give a shit about my patrolling at night but about his right to ride though peoples farms not for any reason but for pleasure. If it was an emergency it would be a different issue altogether.

I hope you, Captain Obvious, dont one day need to knock on a farmers door for help in the middle of nowhere and the farmer beats up as that is what they do in your opinion.
Oh. And please C O dont eat anything that comes from a farm. Your support isnt needed
 
 

I have rectified my error Bear

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Scribble on May 17, 2016, 08:38:24 pm
Did you submit your request in triplicate timeously?
or break the locks ?

Consider this, gates left open by passing motorists leads to say 500 sheep "wandering" into Lesotho. Loss of about R1 000 000 + .

People seem to grossly underestimate the challenges and risks associated with farming. One idiot leaving a gate open can lead to your financial ruin (worst case I know)
I assure not many people take the gate thing as seriously as I do you can ask the guys I ride with
And mostly because it feels like I'm only riding that route by the good graces of the land owner and am very aware of the fact that every time I ride through a place like that may be the last because some less conscientious rider didn't leave the gates as they were found and pissed the landowner off .
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: masehare on May 17, 2016, 08:49:15 pm
I said I was done with this but Lakey has prompted a reply

My advice to you next time you find a rider illegally on a public road, swear profusely, beat him up properly and then shoot him, preferably in the kneecap. This will teach the city boy a lesson he sorely needs.

After all might is right and violence justified, it is the way og the farmer.

I am now done with this discussion

Perhaps you could have pointed him to your later responses as he clearly did not read them prior to posting?




I read his other posts. They just pissed me off more.
It is not about the locked gates as much as his OBVIOUS arrogance and sense of entitlement to go where he pleases without a thought to others. This oke doesnt pay towards the road repair or give a shit about my patrolling at night but about his right to ride though peoples farms not for any reason but for pleasure. If it was an emergency it would be a different issue altogether.

I hope you, Captain Obvious, dont one day need to knock on a farmers door for help in the middle of nowhere and the farmer beats up as that is what they do in your opinion.
Oh. And please dont eat anything that comes from a farm. Your support isnt needed
 

So see it from the other side as well. I see the highlighted statement as hypocritical if you lock a gate on a public road. And before you blow your top, note that the original post referred to a locked gate on a public road, nothing else.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: BlueBull2007 on May 17, 2016, 10:21:15 pm
(http://image.slidesharecdn.com/whatifwecannotagreeatmediation-141112050611-conversion-gate01/95/what-if-we-cannot-agree-at-mediation-1-638.jpg?cb=1415768830)

 :biggrin: :biggrin: ::)

Guys, I think the two points of view have been clearly made.

Let's suck it up in the WD fashion and give them farmers a break. There's anger, frustration and a sense of entitlement on all sides, we ought to remember that a lot of farmers are SERIOUSLY SUFFERING thanks to the criminals.

I reckon the famers who choose to lock a gate here and there should be cut a bit of slack on this one given that its not our livelihoods, our livestock, our investments or our lives that are at stake when we choose to go riding along one road or another. For them it is all of these.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 18, 2016, 06:55:44 am
Guys, I think the two points of view have been clearly made.

Let's suck it up in the WD fashion and give them farmers a break. There's anger, frustration and a sense of entitlement on all sides, we ought to remember that a lot of farmers are SERIOUSLY SUFFERING thanks to the criminals.

I reckon the famers who choose to lock a gate here and there should be cut a bit of slack on this one given that its not our livelihoods, our livestock, our investments or our lives that are at stake when we choose to go riding along one road or another. For them it is all of these.


 :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: KiLRoy on May 18, 2016, 06:59:46 am
There are no two sides to this debate. Its simple.

If its a public road, you dont have the right to lock the gate - period.  Public roads are numbered, have road signs etc.  yes there may be some uncertainty. If you are uncertain, err to the side of caution.

If you need to protect R1m of livestock, rather put them in a camp which is not serviced via a gate to a public road. Thats what everyone else is doing.  Or do as we in the city do, we spend money to enfence our valuables.

If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.

If there are unlocked gates across public roads, dont be a d@@s - close the gates behind you.  There is a reason for this.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 18, 2016, 07:04:07 am
If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.


I have yet to see a Sunday off-roader (duallie, quad, plastic) to give a rat's arse about such a sign.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: KiLRoy on May 18, 2016, 07:07:51 am
If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.


I have yet to see a Sunday off-roader (duallie, quad, plastic) to give a rat's arse about such a sign.

Then he must kak.  Dont try to fuck up the principle of law/rule by using an criminal example.  Using a sign post is more than adequete in most cases in a court to proof such a fuck face was trespassing .
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Vis Arend on May 18, 2016, 07:14:25 am
If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.


I have yet to see a Sunday off-roader (duallie, quad, plastic) to give a rat's arse about such a sign.

I will send you a picture of myself.   :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: KiLRoy on May 18, 2016, 07:21:50 am
If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.


I have yet to see a Sunday off-roader (duallie, quad, plastic) to give a rat's arse about such a sign.

I will send you a picture of myself.   :thumleft:

Exactly, by far the majority will respect this sign. You are trying to proof the rule by using the exception
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Geel Kat on May 18, 2016, 07:27:44 am
If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.


I have yet to see a Sunday off-roader (duallie, quad, plastic) to give a rat's arse about such a sign.

Hier by ons gebeur dit baie, heelwat mense het nog respek vir ander.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 18, 2016, 08:17:19 am
There are no two sides to this debate. Its simple.

If its a public road, you dont have the right to lock the gate - period.  Public roads are numbered, have road signs etc.  yes there may be some uncertainty. If you are uncertain, err to the side of caution.

If you need to protect R1m of livestock, rather put them in a camp which is not serviced via a gate to a public road. Thats what everyone else is doing.  Or do as we in the city do, we spend money to enfence our valuables.

If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.

If there are unlocked gates across public roads, dont be a d@@s - close the gates behind you.  There is a reason for this.

Personally I do not know about any numbered road that have locked gates in this area. The roads we are talking about are indicated in broken line on Mapsource and Basecamp, no numbers what so ever. Some of these roads are also private roads, made by the landowners (veldpaadjies), but in some or other way they pick up on some of these roads and list them on their maps. Likewise, I pushed a dam some 5 years ago and that was never listed nor registered anywhere, yet it now appears on Google maps. This tells me they too get some of their information off satellite images and I suppose the same happens with roads. Every Tom Dick and Harry then assumes all roads listed on these devises are public roads, which they are not. Also as stated above, the roads department has done away with many of these smaller disused roads to free them of the maintenance burden, yet there is no proper record of which roads are still valid. The last time the road over my farm was graded was in August 1983 when my Father had the road graded as there was a funeral at the family graveyard and normal cars also had to have access. Never thereafter and not even about 10+ years prior to that was the road ever graded, so how can that still be regarded as a public road.
On the point of moving your livestock to a camp not serviced by gates is ludicrous. On some farms that will mean they cannot use any of the camps without fencing off the road. The cost of fencing off a road is not for the account of the landowner but for the Dept of roads and transport and it only applies to roads carrying a certain amount of traffic per day. We are talking about roads carrying 5 or less vehicles a year, so that kite will never fly. If the fencing bill is moved over to the landowner it will mean ( in my particular case) a fencing bill of R640 000 just to make it possible to use my farm, which was used as is since whenever.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TT on May 18, 2016, 08:31:18 am
I think some of the farmers here miss the point.

Not a single poster don't agree that a locked gate does not have any security (or farming) benefits. However since the locked gate is still a public road the onus are on the person who locked the gate to provide information to any would be user.


How would you know if it is actually a public road? Because it shows on your Garmin maps? If I get to a road with closed gates, I cannot just assume it is a public road and continue, it might mean landing in situations which could have been avoided.

As stated before, roads get closed for a reason, mostly for security reasons, so if you cut the lock and proceed, how would you feel to read about an attack on that farm just after you have cut the locks? Maybe feel like an accessory to a farm attack? The would be criminals use these roads before the time to plan their attacks as they can sit undisturbed (no other vehicles on the road) and observe the farm activity before the time. So, if a farmer has the gate locked and notices a vehicle or people on the road, he will be alerted and investigate, however if there is no locked gate, he cannot really approach the people and enquire about their intentions.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sandban(g)k on May 18, 2016, 08:33:34 am
You are selfish Bie. Why dont you pay that R640 000 to fence your farm, so that maybe, just maybe one of the 10 guys coming past in the next 20 years don't understand your situation. The other 9 might turn around or might even cost you a cup of coffee, and even some biltong or ouma beskuit. That would make it R 640 100.

You farmers are full of money and according to this thread also full of shit   >:D

And stupid. How could you not know that road is public? I mean, if I can get there with my garmin, it MUST be public.

I will also try my best to remember to close the gate, except if you have too many and Im tired. If I forget, please just understand my situation and get your 10 farm workers and border collie to get your sheep back into the camps.

Just to be clear, is it okay if I camp there for a day or three? I dont want to be in your way? And is it pet friendly? I have a pitbull and a boerboel who just love the outdoors. They get so excited they sometimes get lost for a whole day. At least they make their own plan in terms of food.

I am sure you will understand Bie? If you dont, its okay, I know you country folk are not that clever, I will bring a letter from my attourney stating that I have rights too.
Title: Re: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Casting from Turd on May 18, 2016, 08:39:04 am
(http://image.slidesharecdn.com/whatifwecannotagreeatmediation-141112050611-conversion-gate01/95/what-if-we-cannot-agree-at-mediation-1-638.jpg?cb=1415768830)

 :biggrin: :biggrin: ::)

Guys, I think the two points of view have been clearly made.

Let's suck it up in the WD fashion and give them farmers a break. There's anger, frustration and a sense of entitlement on all sides, we ought to remember that a lot of farmers are SERIOUSLY SUFFERING thanks to the criminals.

I reckon the famers who choose to lock a gate here and there should be cut a bit of slack on this one given that its not our livelihoods, our livestock, our investments or our lives that are at stake when we choose to go riding along one road or another. For them it is all of these.
Wise words

Orange Elephant Backpackers, Addo
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 18, 2016, 08:40:52 am
Go for it Sandbank, enjoy!!   ;D

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Manic on May 18, 2016, 08:47:57 am
Is hierdie nou soos die Pizza man op sy Scooter thread wat net nie wil einde kry nie  :peepwall:

Maak n video en gooi dit op Youtube man  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Andre E on May 18, 2016, 08:50:13 am
Is hierdie nou soos die Pizza man op sy Scooter thread wat net nie wil einde kry nie  :peepwall:

Maak n video en gooi dit op Youtube man  :imaposer:

Een van 'n ou wat slotte breek?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 18, 2016, 08:50:35 am
If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.


I have yet to see a Sunday off-roader (duallie, quad, plastic) to give a rat's arse about such a sign.

I will send you a picture of myself.   :thumleft:

Exactly, by far the majority will respect this sign. You are trying to proof the rule by using the exception

Actually, I am not trying to prove anything.   I just made a statement. 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 18, 2016, 08:52:08 am
If its a private road, and there is confusion. Put a sign up to remove all doubt.


I have yet to see a Sunday off-roader (duallie, quad, plastic) to give a rat's arse about such a sign.

I will send you a picture of myself.   :thumleft:

Not wanting to sound ungrateful, but I would accept a picture of any female from a 100 mile radius as prove positive.  Not that I think you are ugly or anything .......   :peepwall:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 18, 2016, 08:53:34 am
This excuse of stock theft I find a bit far-fetched.

If I wanted to steal some sheep, would I not break a lock? Or cut your fence, or push it flat?

I think some of the farmers here miss the point.

Not a single poster don't agree that a locked gate does not have any security (or farming) benefits. However since the locked gate is still a public road the onus are on the person who locked the gate to provide information to any would be user.

Tell my guys, do you lock your homes and or businesses? If so, and going by your reasoning above, why do you lock it? If someone wants to gain entry to your house or business, will he not simply break a window or door lock? That would defeat the object of locking it, not so? Same thing happens to our locked gate, but it seems your thoughts are it adds no additional security. Why in your case do you then lock yours?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Manic on May 18, 2016, 08:57:47 am
If you on a dirt road that has not been traveled on in a very long time, and you can see that, and you get to a locked gate, ask yourself, What the fuck am I doing here? Am I suppose to be here?

Then turn around and leave  >:D   >:D

Nobody will put a fence or gate over a dirt road being used every single day. End of story.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 18, 2016, 09:01:40 am
If you on a dirt road that has not been traveled on in a very long time, and you can see that, and you get to a locked gate, ask yourself, What the fuck am I doing here? Am I suppose to be here?

Then turn around and leave  >:D   >:D

Nobody will put a fence or gate over a dirt road being used every single day. End of story.

Agreed
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sandban(g)k on May 18, 2016, 09:04:55 am
Go for it Sandbank, enjoy!!   ;D



Thanks  :biggrin: just to make sure, how long must I camp before I can claim a piece of land?  :peepwall:

Hijack off

Manic, that  was well said.  :thumleft:

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: KiLRoy on May 18, 2016, 09:05:11 am
This excuse of stock theft I find a bit far-fetched.

If I wanted to steal some sheep, would I not break a lock? Or cut your fence, or push it flat?

I think some of the farmers here miss the point.

Not a single poster don't agree that a locked gate does not have any security (or farming) benefits. However since the locked gate is still a public road the onus are on the person who locked the gate to provide information to any would be user.

Tell my guys, do you lock your homes and or businesses? If so, and going by your reasoning above, why do you lock it? If someone wants to gain entry to your house or business, will he not simply break a window or door lock? That would defeat the object of locking it, not so? Same thing happens to our locked gate, but it seems your thoughts are it adds no additional security. Why in your case do you then lock yours?
This excuse of stock theft I find a bit far-fetched.

If I wanted to steal some sheep, would I not break a lock? Or cut your fence, or push it flat?

I think some of the farmers here miss the point.

Not a single poster don't agree that a locked gate does not have any security (or farming) benefits. However since the locked gate is still a public road the onus are on the person who locked the gate to provide information to any would be user.

Tell my guys, do you lock your homes and or businesses? If so, and going by your reasoning above, why do you lock it? If someone wants to gain entry to your house or business, will he not simply break a window or door lock? That would defeat the object of locking it, not so? Same thing happens to our locked gate, but it seems your thoughts are it adds no additional security. Why in your case do you then lock yours?

I absolutely lock my door and my gate.  But thats is not the point now is it?  I dont lock the public road leading to or through my property.  My ownership ends at the boundary of my yard.  People have dne this through boomed off areas through a legal process.  Its not a case of one day unilaterally deciding fark that, im closing this public road - ITS NOT YOURS.  Julius must also learn this...

Simple really - if its public, you have no right to lock a gate, if its private, nobody has the right to trespass. To avoid confusion put up a sign.  If there is confusion about the nature of roads - consult your property deed, if things have changes or you want it changed - follow the legal process as city-dwellers do with boomed off areas.  
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: KiLRoy on May 18, 2016, 09:08:44 am
Servitude roads serving a few farms i treat as private.  You have no business there if you don't have business with one on the farms? 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Swannie 685 on May 18, 2016, 09:33:29 am
Soms kan die wiel ook draai. *

My buurman weier absoluut dat ek die serwitute pad wat voor my huis verbygaan deur sy grond,mag gebruik. Slegs een hek (nie gesluit nie) en die pad is alkante afgekamp. Ek het al mooi gevra ens,maar hy wil niks weet nie.

Sy rede is dat hy soms volstruise daar aanhou en hulle dan sal skrik vir my bike en in drade sal vashardloop. (al ry ek met die bakkie ook)

Nou moet ek deur DRIE bekslaner hekke gaan om die hoofpad te bereik.

* Dit het nou al twee keer gebeur dat buurman se koppelpype uitspring en dan heeldag slegs in die lug opspuit. Ongelukkig vir hom is my oë so sleg dat ek NIKS gesien het nie.  :thumleft:

Aangesien my blyplek nie aan my behoort nie, wil ek nie die legal eagles nog verder ryk maak en sodoende my landlord ook dalk die moer in  maak nie. ( Ek bly hoeka heeltemal verniet met water ingesluit.)

Soms kry mens seker maar sulke tipe mense ook.



Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Kortbroek on May 18, 2016, 10:33:43 am
Is hierdie nou soos die Pizza man op sy Scooter thread wat net nie wil einde kry nie  :peepwall:

Maak n video en gooi dit op Youtube man  :imaposer:

Een van 'n ou wat slotte breek?

 :laughing4:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: BOER! on May 18, 2016, 10:58:36 am
I've read the entire thread.  Seems to be a bit of agree to disagree. 
Mainly because there are exceptions to every goddamn situation in life.  Some roads seem private and gets locked by farmers,  Other roads seems public and the public feels justified in using it, even when a lock prevents access for whatever reason.

Here is my solution: 
On WD, we have a thread where we advise guesthouses, business, restaurants.  Go here, but don't go there.

Can we not start a thread where you point or co-ordinates to a locked gate.  Everybody can use it to do route planning.  Maybe post the number who to call when the gate is locked.
It could help to communicate with the farmer few days before you go through the area, and you can talk to him again before you lose signal.

My 5c, because this thread is not getting anybody closer to a solution so far.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Scribble on May 18, 2016, 11:25:15 am
I've read the entire thread.  Seems to be a bit of agree to disagree. 
Mainly because there are exceptions to every goddamn situation in life.  Some roads seem private and gets locked by farmers,  Other roads seems public and the public feels justified in using it, even when a lock prevents access for whatever reason.

Here is my solution: 
On WD, we have a thread where we advise guesthouses, business, restaurants.  Go here, but don't go there.

Can we not start a thread where you point or co-ordinates to a locked gate.  Everybody can use it to do route planning.  Maybe post the number who to call when the gate is locked.
It could help to communicate with the farmer few days before you go through the area, and you can talk to him again before you lose signal.

My 5c, because this thread is not getting anybody closer to a solution so far.
I would imagine this has the potential to be an amicable solution but would suggest it gets put in Jou ma or some other place where non members could not see it.I imagine though its putting loads of info out there that may not be a good idea and also how tolerant will the farmers be of the phone calls ?
A way better option than just breaking locks and generally trespassing.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 18, 2016, 11:26:22 am
Better still Boer, make use of Tracks for Africa and let them know where you find a locked gate. They have a few indicated on their maps and can probably update it with called in info. I see none of the smaller roads that are locked in this area are even shown on T4A. It is those extremely small tweespoor type roads that are indicated on Garmin's Topo maps and Google maps that some simply assume are public roads that are problematic.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 18, 2016, 12:18:46 pm
Better still Boer, make use of Tracks for Africa and let them know where you find a locked gate. They have a few indicated on their maps and can probably update it with called in info. I see none of the smaller roads that are locked in this area are even shown on T4A. It is those extremely small tweespoor type roads that are indicated on Garmin's Topo maps and Google maps that some simply assume are public roads that are problematic.

Yip, this is part of the farmer's problem.

The old Garmin Streetmaps I found useful but the newer Garmin City Navigator has got too many private roads on and is just confusing. Suppose this will lead to more people wondering onto private land.

T4A is up to shit. Too many of the public roads are just not indicated on their maps. Fine if you want to go where everyone else have gone.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 18, 2016, 12:25:54 pm
Can we not start a thread where you point or co-ordinates to a locked gate.  Everybody can use it to do route planning.  Maybe post the number who to call when the gate is locked.
It could help to communicate with the farmer few days before you go through the area, and you can talk to him again before you lose signal.

Have tried that with one gate I came across but the interest in the thread was very low and no one could provide answers.
I remember Kamanya also posted about one gate and whether it was private or not and who to contact.

Then this thread where for some reason the Captain refuse to give details of the particular road and gates?

Would love a thread like that though.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on May 18, 2016, 12:31:57 pm
My 5c, because this thread is not getting anybody closer to a solution so far.

Partly imho because farmers have private roads or servitude roads on their own farms in the back of their minds when replying while city folk have other roads in the back of their minds.

I must say that I have never come across a locked gate on a road that I know for certain is a public road.
The locked gates that I did come across where normally in areas that I was uncertain if it is private or not and could turn around.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Matewis on May 18, 2016, 12:33:43 pm
Fokkit kerels. 10 bladsye oor 'n donnerse hek. As jy hom toe kry, maak hom toe agter jou gat. As jy hom oop kry. Los hom oop. Dis nie rocket science nie.

Dis soos die storie van die familie van Gauteng wat deur 'n boer se plaas gery het. Lekker spot gesien en sommer kamp opgeslaan. Deur die ou se veld gery, plantegroei moer toe en lekker gegaan. Geen toestemming by die boer gekry nie. Boer mooi fotos geneem. Nommerplate gekry, en toe vir 'n week lank gaan uitkamp op die ou se gras in die stad. Gras lekker platgetrap met sy Cruiser Plek goed opgeneuk en toe teruggegaan plaas toe.

Respekteer die manne se grond. Hulle sit kos op jou tafel.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Geel Kat on May 18, 2016, 12:36:02 pm
Fokkit kerels. 10 bladsye oor 'n donnerse hek. As jy hom toe kry, maak hom toe agter jou gat. As jy hom oop kry. Los hom oop. Dis nie rocket science nie.

Het jy die thread gelees?

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on May 18, 2016, 12:41:16 pm
Better still Boer, make use of Tracks for Africa and let them know where you find a locked gate. They have a few indicated on their maps and can probably update it with called in info. I see none of the smaller roads that are locked in this area are even shown on T4A. It is those extremely small tweespoor type roads that are indicated on Garmin's Topo maps and Google maps that some simply assume are public roads that are problematic.

Yip, this is part of the farmer's problem.

The old Garmin Streetmaps I found useful but the newer Garmin City Navigator has got too many private roads on and is just confusing. Suppose this will lead to more people wondering onto private land.

T4A is up to shit. Too many of the public roads are just not indicated on their maps. Fine if you want to go where everyone else have gone.

I agree with Boer, it seems as if the thought is that known public roads are deliberately locked, or gates simply put across to the inconvenience of others and I am unaware of such cases.
The big issue in my mind is people breaking locks to go onto private land, assuming it is public terrain. If a gate is not locked and you wander onto private land, assuming it is a public road, I think most farm owners will be accommodating, even though you are technically trespassing. If you however break a lock to gain entry to private land you cannot blame the owner if he is pissed off. You would be too if I break the lock on your driveway gate assuming it is public terrain and rightly so. Make 100% sure whether it is in fact a public road before you break that lock and don't use Google maps or Garmin to base your assumptions on.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on May 18, 2016, 12:44:11 pm
but would suggest it gets put in Jou ma or some other place where non members could not see it.

Not such a great idea from a security point of view :biggrin:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 18, 2016, 12:49:13 pm
Better still Boer, make use of Tracks for Africa and let them know where you find a locked gate. They have a few indicated on their maps and can probably update it with called in info. I see none of the smaller roads that are locked in this area are even shown on T4A. It is those extremely small tweespoor type roads that are indicated on Garmin's Topo maps and Google maps that some simply assume are public roads that are problematic.

Yip, this is part of the farmer's problem.

The old Garmin Streetmaps I found useful but the newer Garmin City Navigator has got too many private roads on and is just confusing. Suppose this will lead to more people wondering onto private land.

T4A is up to shit. Too many of the public roads are just not indicated on their maps. Fine if you want to go where everyone else have gone.


Janee!  I posted a image from Garmin City Navigator back somewhere in this thread.  It is even showing, what I know to be a fire break, as a road.   :snorting:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Matewis on May 18, 2016, 01:11:48 pm
Fokkit kerels. 10 bladsye oor 'n donnerse hek. As jy hom toe kry, maak hom toe agter jou gat. As jy hom oop kry. Los hom oop. Dis nie rocket science nie.

Het jy die thread gelees?

Ek het ophou lees by bladsy 5. My oom het 'n plaas in die Namakwaland. As jy een goeie more opstaan om te gaan skaap bymekaar maak en jou helekudde van 60 dragtige ooie is gesteel dan sal mense verstaan hoekom 'n boer sy hekke sluit. Myns insiens wil almal eintlik bewys hulle kan op die paaie ry. Dis die boer se grond. Hy het dit gekoop. Nes ek en jy 'n erf of huis gekoop het en die reg het om die hekke/deure te sluit.

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: JC on May 18, 2016, 01:21:11 pm
Fokkit kerels. 10 bladsye oor 'n donnerse hek. As jy hom toe kry, maak hom toe agter jou gat. As jy hom oop kry. Los hom oop. Dis nie rocket science nie.

Het jy die thread gelees?

Ek het ophou lees by bladsy 5. My oom het 'n plaas in die Namakwaland. As jy een goeie more opstaan om te gaan skaap bymekaar maak en jou helekudde van 60 dragtige ooie is gesteel dan sal mense verstaan hoekom 'n boer sy hekke sluit. Myns insiens wil almal eintlik bewys hulle kan op die paaie ry. Dis die boer se grond. Hy het dit gekoop. Nes ek en jy 'n erf of huis gekoop het en die reg het om die hekke/deure te sluit.


lees gerus die ander bladsye
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Geel Kat on May 18, 2016, 01:21:53 pm
Fokkit kerels. 10 bladsye oor 'n donnerse hek. As jy hom toe kry, maak hom toe agter jou gat. As jy hom oop kry. Los hom oop. Dis nie rocket science nie.

Het jy die thread gelees?

Ek het ophou lees by bladsy 5. My oom het 'n plaas in die Namakwaland. As jy een goeie more opstaan om te gaan skaap bymekaar maak en jou helekudde van 60 dragtige ooie is gesteel dan sal mense verstaan hoekom 'n boer sy hekke sluit. Myns insiens wil almal eintlik bewys hulle kan op die paaie ry. Dis die boer se grond. Hy het dit gekoop. Nes ek en jy 'n erf of huis gekoop het en die reg het om die hekke/deure te sluit.


Dit is nie heeltemal so eenvoudig nie  ;)

Met die res van jou vorige post stem ek saam - los hekke soos jy hulle gekry het.

Beide "kante" in die thread het geldige argumente, en beide is ewe hardegat  :biggrin:

My support met die een bly by die boere, die hoeveelheid kere wat mens in 'n situasie beland waar 'n hek gesluit is, is min genoeg.

Dit sou gaaf wees om 'n databasis op te bou van sulke plekke al is dit sonder kontak besonderhede om sekerheids redes.

Al hoe meer mense gebruik GPS kaarte en ry blindelings agter die roete aan, en al hoe meer GPS kaarte word opgedateer sonder dat daar bevestig word of die pad oop of toe is, i.e. van satelliiet images af.

En al hoe meer boere gaan hekke sluit oor die redes wat reeds genoem is.

Hoeveel bladsye nou al?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Matewis on May 18, 2016, 01:28:10 pm
H
Fokkit kerels. 10 bladsye oor 'n donnerse hek. As jy hom toe kry, maak hom toe agter jou gat. As jy hom oop kry. Los hom oop. Dis nie rocket science nie.

Ons mik vir 12??

Albei kante het geldige punte. Ek besit nie GPS nie. Nog old School en ry op kaart. En vra in die dorp gewoonlik want die locals weet presies wat aangaan. So dink nie daar gaan ooit 'n duidelike antwoord wees nie.

Het jy die thread gelees?

Ek het ophou lees by bladsy 5. My oom het 'n plaas in die Namakwaland. As jy een goeie more opstaan om te gaan skaap bymekaar maak en jou helekudde van 60 dragtige ooie is gesteel dan sal mense verstaan hoekom 'n boer sy hekke sluit. Myns insiens wil almal eintlik bewys hulle kan op die paaie ry. Dis die boer se grond. Hy het dit gekoop. Nes ek en jy 'n erf of huis gekoop het en die reg het om die hekke/deure te sluit.


Dit is nie heeltemal so eenvoudig nie  ;)

Met die res van jou vorige post stem ek saam - los hekke soos jy hulle gekry het.

Beide "kante" in die thread het geldige argumente, en beide is ewe hardegat  :biggrin:

My support met die een bly by die boere, die hoeveelheid kere wat mens in 'n situasie beland waar 'n hek gesluit is, is min genoeg.

Dit sou gaaf wees om 'n databasis op te bou van sulke plekke al is dit sonder kontak besonderhede om sekerheids redes.

Al hoe meer mense gebruik GPS kaarte en ry blindelings agter die roete aan, en al hoe meer GPS kaarte word opgedateer sonder dat daar bevestig word of die pad oop of toe is, i.e. van satelliiet images af.

En al hoe meer boere gaan hekke sluit oor die redes wat reeds genoem is.

Hoeveel bladsye nou al?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on May 18, 2016, 03:02:22 pm
Sy rede is dat hy soms volstruise daar aanhou en hulle dan sal skrik vir my bike en in drade sal vashardloop

Vertel jou buurman hy moet jou petrol gee. Hoe meer jy met die bike daardeur ry hoe minder gaan hulle skrik. Feit. :deal:

Die broeipaar wat op die kruis vanaf Witsand en Vermaaklikheid teen die pad loop sien en hoor seker die meeste bikes van alle volstruise wat ek van weet.
Hulle kyk nie eens meer op as mens verbyry. :deal:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Swannie 685 on May 18, 2016, 03:51:15 pm
Sy rede is dat hy soms volstruise daar aanhou en hulle dan sal skrik vir my bike en in drade sal vashardloop

Vertel jou buurman hy moet jou petrol gee. Hoe meer jy met die bike daardeur ry hoe minder gaan hulle skrik. Feit. :deal:

Die broeipaar wat op die kruis vanaf Witsand en Vermaaklikheid teen die pad loop sien en hoor seker die meeste bikes van alle volstruise wat ek van weet.
Hulle kyk nie eens meer op as mens verbyry. :deal:

Dis nie duidelik uit my post nie,maar die 3 bekslanerhekke waardeur ek nou moet gaan is deur twee volstruiskampe. Die goed is so mak soos n lam, en hardloop nie weg nie, BEHALWE toe daar kuikens was !

Toeter, bike rev, hard vloek - niks help nie. Mannetjie het seker so 5 tree van my tot stilstand gekom toe hy sien nou gaan ek hom in sy maai ry. Die wetterse kleintjies agterna - seker om te help baklei.

Sal dit egter nie volgende keer weer waag nie,want ek moet afklim om hekke oop en toe te maak en dis te dêm gevaarlik.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Swannie 685 on May 18, 2016, 03:58:51 pm
Fokkit kerels. 10 bladsye oor 'n donnerse hek. As jy hom toe kry, maak hom toe agter jou gat. As jy hom oop kry. Los hom oop. Dis nie rocket science nie.

Dis soos die storie van die familie van Gauteng wat deur 'n boer se plaas gery het. Lekker spot gesien en sommer kamp opgeslaan. Deur die ou se veld gery, plantegroei moer toe en lekker gegaan. Geen toestemming by die boer gekry nie. Boer mooi fotos geneem. Nommerplate gekry, en toe vir 'n week lank gaan uitkamp op die ou se gras in die stad. Gras lekker platgetrap met sy Cruiser Plek goed opgeneuk en toe teruggegaan plaas toe.

Respekteer die manne se grond. Hulle sit kos op jou tafel.


Wat wel rocket science is en ook waaroor die die fred gaan, is: Wat gemaak met `n geslote hek ?

Ons praat ook oor plaashekke. "Donnerse hekke" is `n fred heel op sy eie :imaposer:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Mikie on May 19, 2016, 12:55:06 pm
Dont lock your gates, make these

https://www.youtube.com/v/Y8W-OlLf_Tc
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 19, 2016, 12:58:34 pm
Dont lock your gates, make these

https://www.youtube.com/v/Y8W-OlLf_Tc

HAHA!  Awesome idea!

Only one problem.  It malfunctions and a day later we have a 29 pages thread here entitled: "Farmers gate damaged my helmet!  I am suing!!!!!!"
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Mikie on May 19, 2016, 01:08:27 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2wdrift on May 19, 2016, 01:22:59 pm
Dont lock your gates, make these

https://www.youtube.com/v/Y8W-OlLf_Tc

HAHA!  Awesome idea!

Only one problem.  It malfunctions and a day later we have a 29 pages thread here entitled: "Farmers gate damaged my helmet!  I am suing!!!!!!"

With the farmer replying on the forum that the gate doesnt work if you hit it at 120km/h...
And the gate probably wont work well with a light bike...
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: nemodakar on May 19, 2016, 01:47:13 pm
Problem with these gates are that they open for criminals just as well as the good guys.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 19, 2016, 01:49:23 pm
Problem with these gates are that they open for criminals just as well as the good guys.


Yeah.  Also, it will open for your average Brahman cow's 1000kg hubby anyway.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 19, 2016, 01:51:00 pm
Ons praat ook oor plaashekke. "Donnerse hekke" is `n fred heel op sy eie :imaposer:

Ek dag alle oop hekke = hekke
Alle toe hekke as die kinders by is = hekke
Alle toe hekke as ek alleen is = donnerse hekke
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 19, 2016, 01:51:43 pm
Problem with these gates are that they open for criminals just as well as the good guys.


Yeah.  Also, it will open for your average Brahman cow's 1000kg hubby anyway.

It still has the cattle-grid floor.
Title: Re:
Post by: TornadoF5 on May 19, 2016, 02:18:33 pm
Your farmers should just place these signs at all your gates...

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab22/Tornado2908/images-3_zpsxmeuhk8r.jpg) (http://s846.photobucket.com/user/Tornado2908/media/images-3_zpsxmeuhk8r.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on May 19, 2016, 02:32:01 pm
Problem with these gates are that they open for criminals just as well as the good guys.


Yeah.  Also, it will open for your average Brahman cow's 1000kg hubby anyway.

It still has the cattle-grid floor.

Fok weet!  As jy darem begin om 'n "ernstig" op mens te trek!   :crybaby2: :crybaby2: :crybaby2:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Swannie 685 on May 19, 2016, 03:10:13 pm
Ons praat ook oor plaashekke. "Donnerse hekke" is `n fred heel op sy eie :imaposer:

Ek dag alle oop hekke = hekke
Alle toe hekke as die kinders by is = hekke
Alle toe hekke as ek alleen is = donnerse hekke

TheBear, jy is alweer so skerp soos gewoonlik en o.k. , sal erken jy`s reg :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Swannie 685 on May 19, 2016, 03:15:49 pm
Maklikste oplossing:

Koop `n paar slotte en as jy by `n geslote hek kom, breek slot af.
Wanneer jy uitgaan, sit jou eie slot op.

Boer het nie vir jou `n sleutel gegee nie, so dis onnodig om hom een te gee.

Geslote hek gekry - geslote hek agtergelaat.

( Slegs as parodie geskryf)
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: JK on May 19, 2016, 03:31:12 pm
Dont lock your gates, make these

https://www.youtube.com/v/Y8W-OlLf_Tc

HAHA!  Awesome idea!

Only one problem.  It malfunctions and a day later we have a 29 pages thread here entitled: "Farmers gate damaged my helmet!  I am suing!!!!!!"

With the farmer replying on the forum that the gate doesnt work if you hit it at 120km/h...
And the gate probably wont work well with a light bike...

Blatante diskriminasie ... Bou alweer net hekke vir BMW's  :patch: :lol8:
Title: Re:
Post by: Omninorm on May 19, 2016, 04:01:06 pm
Your farmers should just place these signs at all your gates...

(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab22/Tornado2908/images-3_zpsxmeuhk8r.jpg) (http://s846.photobucket.com/user/Tornado2908/media/images-3_zpsxmeuhk8r.jpg.html)

So what about the law abiding riders that conceal carry?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Dwerg on May 19, 2016, 04:29:47 pm
As julle soveel bike ry soos kak praat is dit tyd vir nuwe bande
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Swannie 685 on May 19, 2016, 06:49:30 pm
As julle soveel bike ry soos kak praat is dit tyd vir nuwe bande

Myne is hoeka so glad dat die vlieë dit as `n aanloopbaan gebruik. :lol8:

Maar nuwe bande gaan nog nie die probleem met plaashekke oplos nie  ::)

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 1190 on July 28, 2016, 11:01:38 am
Finally a solution..... :biggrin:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: ButtSlider on July 28, 2016, 11:15:48 am
Don't quite see the logic in this.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: manxkipper on July 28, 2016, 11:30:50 am
Very clever. One could add many more holes/locks too.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: RobC on July 28, 2016, 11:34:12 am
Don't quite see the logic in this.
To lift the lever one has to take the lock you have a key to out by unlocking it. Very clever! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 0012 on July 28, 2016, 11:44:30 am
wat is fout met die old school metode?
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 28, 2016, 11:49:46 am
works like a charm
must be the water in these mountains or the breeding program  ??? >:(
they do this all the time - couple of times a week
I caught up to the idiot - no reaction, just shrugs
arseholes
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2wdrift on July 28, 2016, 11:57:38 am
works like a charm
must be the water in these mountains or the breeding program  ??? >:(
they do this all the time - couple of times a week
I caught up to the idiot - no reaction, just shrugs
arseholes

The morons are spreading...
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 0012 on July 28, 2016, 12:10:01 pm
 :dontknow:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 28, 2016, 07:35:24 pm
maybe I'm missing something so educate me
why lock a gate on a 1.2m high bloudraad fence, next to your house or miles away makes no difference imo
unless you have secured, patrolled perimeter fence the wire can be cut so is no deterrent.
if you have something of value it will be gone when they want it
by locking the gate you create opportunity for slowing and restricting access for ambush. or you are a skelm and hiding something , like growing dagga, perlie processing, unfair labour practise, child labour, what else, what else needs restricting traffic flow
 >:(
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on July 28, 2016, 11:39:57 pm
maybe I'm missing something so educate me
why lock a gate on a 1.2m high bloudraad fence, next to your house or miles away makes no difference imo
unless you have secured, patrolled perimeter fence the wire can be cut so is no deterrent.
if you have something of value it will be gone when they want it
by locking the gate you create opportunity for slowing and restricting access for ambush. or you are a skelm and hiding something , like growing dagga, perlie processing, unfair labour practise, child labour, what else, what else needs restricting traffic flow
 >:(

It is to keep those pesky bikers out. At least they don't cut the fences .....yet.  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: jeff on July 28, 2016, 11:56:38 pm
maybe I'm missing something so educate me
why lock a gate on a 1.2m high bloudraad fence, next to your house or miles away makes no difference imo
unless you have secured, patrolled perimeter fence the wire can be cut so is no deterrent.
if you have something of value it will be gone when they want it
by locking the gate you create opportunity for slowing and restricting access for ambush. or you are a skelm and hiding something , like growing dagga, perlie processing, unfair labour practise, child labour, what else, what else needs restricting traffic flow
 >:(
If people leave your gate open and you have Game ,cattle or sheep, they can get out when the gate is open . So if some twatwaffle leaves your gate open you lose a lot of money. That is why the farmers want to put locks on the gates. It is not for organised theft , that is a whole different ball game.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 29, 2016, 05:47:30 am
no fancy game, just some sheep, and tollies, that are only in the locked gate camp in the day periodically.
 something else  ???
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Mikie on July 29, 2016, 07:19:11 am
Watch out for the snow chasers....


https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/ (https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/)

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717)
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: RobC on July 29, 2016, 12:10:25 pm
no fancy game, just some sheep, and tollies, that are only in the locked gate camp in the day periodically.
 something else  ???
Jy was klaarblyklik nog nooit op 'n plaas om te sien hoe dinge werk nie? of hoe? :sip:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: RobC on July 29, 2016, 12:11:45 pm
Watch out for the snow chasers....


https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/ (https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/)

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717)
It all boils down to an utter lack of respect for farmers. Period! :patch:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Matewis on July 29, 2016, 12:18:45 pm
Watch out for the snow chasers....


https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/ (https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/)

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717)
It all boils down to an utter lack of respect for farmers. Period! :patch:

Ek sal wragtag fotos neem, die ou se nommerplaat trace en lekker gaan kamp opslaan op sy gras of sy elektriese drade by sy huis gaan knip. Ek sal wragtag 'n D9 vat en sy muur gaan platstoot en dan sien hoe hy daarvan hou. Dis soos iemand wat eerste keer op 'n plaas kom en die werf inkom teen 120km/h en 'n stofwolk van 'n myl lank.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: subie on July 29, 2016, 12:33:50 pm
Daar by verneukpan maak dit nie saak of jy die hekke almal weer mooi toegemaak het nie.
Oom Giel skel elke keer indien iemand dalk n hek oopgelos het.  :imaposer:
Die oom het n hart van goud so sy skel het nie baie byt in nie.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on July 29, 2016, 12:56:23 pm
Watch out for the snow chasers....


https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/ (https://www.ecr.co.za/news-sport/news/snow-chasers-cost-kzn-farmers-thousands-damages/)

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717 (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Snow-tourists-leave-farmer-cold-20090717)
It all boils down to an utter lack of respect for farmers. Period! :patch:

Utter lack of respect for anyone, but themselves. 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 29, 2016, 05:39:03 pm
no fancy game, just some sheep, and tollies, that are only in the locked gate camp in the day periodically.
 something else  ???
Jy was klaarblyklik nog nooit op 'n plaas om te sien hoe dinge werk nie? of hoe? :sip:
clearly  :patch:
check the picture below of how my neighbours lock the gate, myself and another locked out or in, whichever you prefer
I can understand a city slicker getting it wrong, but a farmer!

Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: RobC on July 29, 2016, 05:56:20 pm
no fancy game, just some sheep, and tollies, that are only in the locked gate camp in the day periodically.
 something else  ???
Jy was klaarblyklik nog nooit op 'n plaas om te sien hoe dinge werk nie? of hoe? :sip:
clearly  :patch:
check the picture below of how my neighbours lock the gate, myself and another locked out or in, whichever you prefer
I can understand a city slicker getting it wrong, but a farmer!


Apologies! I forgot, jy boer mos.  :o
Ek verstaan ook nie, mens wil mos nie diere laat rondloop waar hulle nie hoort nie. Self grootgeword op 'n plaas en my gat het gebrand as ek 'n hek vergeet het. :-(
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 29, 2016, 06:04:27 pm
access to ones property should be convenient and safe
mine is neither - bunch of cnuts for neighbours unfortunately. good thing is that I don't have to go looking for my tools anymore or have some ahole borrowing pipe fittings and stuff. ;D
besides the absolute inconvenience constantly I live in paradise, and am very grateful for my environment

with the snow chasers I see a very definite business opportunity, open the gate , charge access and sell them snow :pot:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2wdrift on July 30, 2016, 01:13:51 am
I live on a farm and our area has been having a rough time with break ins and robberies lately.

The guys walk in on foot cutting fences as they go, on the way out they also walk cutting other fences as they go. So the people in our area decided the best thing to do is to put boom gates on the roads and close it off to the general public.  ???

I suggested foot patrols and having observation points manned by us, the idea was not even considered. As a kid I would hide from the patrolling neighbors for fun. At night I saw them coming and walked about 5 meters off the road and sat down in the long grass, I was never seen. Now somehow they believe that driving around in your hilux with a green light on the roof does help.  I dont get these people.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 30, 2016, 05:21:40 am
I live on a farm and our area has been having a rough time with break ins and robberies lately.

The guys walk in on foot cutting fences as they go, on the way out they also walk cutting other fences as they go. So the people in our area decided the best thing to do is to put boom gates on the roads and close it off to the general public.  ???

I suggested foot patrols and having observation points manned by us, the idea was not even considered. As a kid I would hide from the patrolling neighbors for fun. At night I saw them coming and walked about 5 meters off the road and sat down in the long grass, I was never seen. Now somehow they believe that driving around in your hilux with a green light on the roof does help.  I dont get these people.
thats my point exactly...
they walk in or hijack you at the gate, load your bakkie and leave with it loaded.
 :xxbah:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on July 30, 2016, 09:18:21 am
thats my point exactly...
they walk in or hijack you at the gate, load your bakkie and leave with it loaded.
 :xxbah:

The reason for the gates was explained, adequately imho, earlier in this thread. 
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 30, 2016, 07:42:24 pm
thats my point exactly...
they walk in or hijack you at the gate, load your bakkie and leave with it loaded.
 :xxbah:

The reason for the gates was explained, adequately imho, earlier in this thread. 

ja, spose it was, I missed the cdf and logic in the explanation, 'imho'   :xxbah: :xxbah: :xxbah:
I live near the gate retards and on the same roads. sorry bear, yho doesn't keep my road safe or convenient :dousing:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: TheBear on July 30, 2016, 08:25:47 pm
thats my point exactly...
they walk in or hijack you at the gate, load your bakkie and leave with it loaded.
 :xxbah:

The reason for the gates was explained, adequately imho, earlier in this thread.  

ja, spose it was, I missed the cdf and logic in the explanation, 'imho'   :xxbah: :xxbah: :xxbah:
I live near the gate retards and on the same roads. sorry bear, yho doesn't keep my road safe or convenient :dousing:

Cool.  MHO is just that, one opinion.   :thumleft:
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 30, 2016, 08:35:19 pm
mine too! :thumleft:
just an opinion
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: 2wdrift on July 31, 2016, 10:18:33 am
thats my point exactly...
they walk in or hijack you at the gate, load your bakkie and leave with it loaded.
 :xxbah:

The reason for the gates was explained, adequately imho, earlier in this thread. 


For animals I understand, for safety its not in the least bit effective and it becomes a perfect hijacking opportunity for them.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on July 31, 2016, 11:30:36 am
Whether the gate is locked or not, whoever uses the road still needs to stop to open, so locking it does not contribute to a greater risk in that regard. Believe me, a locked gate is a deterrent, whether it is believed or not.

Same argument will apply to your house. Why bother locking your front door if a burgular can break a window or get inside in another way, yet it is a no-brainer that the door must be locked. You will never stop the guy who wants to get inside at all cost, but opportunity makes the thief if it is too easy.
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: elandsrider on July 31, 2016, 06:44:09 pm
 ??? Doesnt make a difference what i say, gate as is , is a risk to safety
Title: Re: Farmers closing roads
Post by: Bie on July 31, 2016, 07:14:02 pm
We all live with gates as a normal part in our lives on farms. If anyone wants to ambush you they need not wait at a locked gate my friend. They can put a branch in the road, or a few rocks and force you to stop. Even when you stop and get out to open a normal gate you are a target and they will have more than enough time for their evil plans. The minute or two it takes to unlock the padlock will make no real difference. Yes, you can clear the areas around the gate of vegetation to make it safer.

You need to get out of your vehicle at some or other point in any case. Leave the gate open as it seems you currently prefer and they can drive right up to your house in no time where you also have to get out of your car. It is a no-brainer, a locked gate does help. Obviously a solar powered sliding gate with remote control will be safer, so rather get the neighbors on board with putting that up than antagonizing them about the locked gate.