Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => To Buy or Not To Buy => Topic started by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 10:53:15 pm

Title: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 10:53:15 pm
Hi if anyone can help,been looking at the small smart car for run about for "boss".
What should I look for with problems,any advice.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 10:54:10 pm
Sorry,not the new one.the previous model.
The two seater.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:05:07 pm
My wife had 4 of them. The 2 Seaters.

First ones was 600cc, then 700cc, then 1000cc.

Lovely cars, had no hassles. But here by 90 000km they start using oil.

If you can, make sure its the Turbo.

The last ones only came out in non Turbo. 2011 until now. Only the Cabriolet model still had Turbo in these last years. Drive both if you can.

Turbo ones are very nippy, 64kw and the car only weighs around 700kg.

Non turbo is 52kw.

Gear changes are a bit slow. There is a delay when changing gears. Its actually a Manual gearbox with only a automatic clutch. So the second or two it takes to change a manual car, you get in these even though its an "auto"

16km per litre in town.
Get around 512km on the 32litre tank  :biggrin:

Topspeed limited at 140kph.

With the short wheelbase, its a VERY bumpy ride!! But awesome car indeed.

Their secondhand value is almost nothing. So beware, what you pay you wont get back after a year  :'(

Get the 1000cc at least. Stay away from the 600 and 700cc. Also stay away if mileage is above 50 000km.

Going rate for these are around R90 000-R110 000.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:08:02 pm
Sorry,not the new one.the previous model.
The two seater.

Just for Info.
The newly Launched one came down in price like crazy, cause they struggled to sell the previous one.
Paid R295 000 for our last Smart new, now the current 2016 facelift ones are R208 000  >:D

Because of the decrease in price, the previous ones took a hard knock in resale value.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:09:08 pm
Thanks,noticed a lot for sale.but all seem to be over 100 000km mark.
Made me worry,it's like a sign to dump it after the 100 000km.
Car will only do 7 km,to work and 7 km back.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:10:59 pm
Manic,the new smart uses a Renault engine?
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:14:29 pm
100 000km is alot for these motors. Its a small 3 cylinder Turbo Intercooled engine. And it revs up crazy  fast.

If I remember correctly Mercedes told me the whole engine weighs something like 52kg.

We only had the Turbo's. Maybe the Natural engine will last longer?

My mom still has her one. Its a 2008 model with only 36 000km on  :biggrin:

Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:16:10 pm
Thanks,this car will do minimum driving except for Cape Town stop and go.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:16:56 pm
Manic,the new smart uses a Renault engine?

I dont know hey. My wife bugged me for one again. Went and looked, But never did any investigation further.

The current 2016 one is now a Proper Manual. The Auto will only be here end of the year, and my name is on the waiting list for one.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:17:35 pm
Another down side, they dont have run flat tyres, and dont have a spare wheel.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:20:40 pm
Thanks for info,now tell tell her the bad news.
Time to look for some other small car.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:23:03 pm
Not sure what you budget is, but go for something like this.
Its the Non turbo.

And I bet you can still knock off at least R15 000 on this price if you get the Dealer into a corner.

http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-cars/smart/fortwo/2013-smart-fortwo-1.0-mhd-pulse--fpa-e3304d47ee8d4006918b105092ad7506 (http://www.autotrader.co.za/used-cars/smart/fortwo/2013-smart-fortwo-1.0-mhd-pulse--fpa-e3304d47ee8d4006918b105092ad7506)

You get the Pure, and the Pulse.

Pure is Steel wheels, no paddles on steering wheel etc etc.

Pulse is the more fancy one. Also the nicest looking one.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:26:09 pm
Thanks,but by need closer to cape town.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:27:43 pm
Thanks,but by need closer to cape town.

http://www.autotrader.co.za/makemodel/make/SMART/search (http://www.autotrader.co.za/makemodel/make/SMART/search)
Title: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:28:32 pm
Think I'll just make all the tortoise's horny on way back🐢
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: fixit on June 17, 2016, 11:30:58 pm
So manic you a Smart Ford fan :biggrin:

My brother had 2 of these things. Both gave problems. The first one after 6k km spent a month in the workshop. Some belt snapped? they couldn't get the right parts or something to that effect.

I did have a look at the setup. Very strange little car. Seems like to do any work on the motor, you need to remove the whole back suspension out?

The one thing I don't like is that they are head turners and the driver and passenger are very visible. I'd have the windows tinted if I bought one  :biggrin:
 
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:36:56 pm
In our family we now had 6.

Never gave a day hassle.

Even got 60 000km on a set of tyres.

4 tyres will cost you R2400 for the set  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Manic on June 17, 2016, 11:38:40 pm
So manic you a Smart Ford fan :biggrin:

 

I will rather go by myself a Smart again to drive, than a Ford.

I wont get caught twice hey  >:D  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:40:48 pm
Thanks for help
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Lurkhead on June 17, 2016, 11:42:07 pm
Might have to try some other small run about
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: fixit on June 17, 2016, 11:43:27 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4:

I'd actually like to hear a bit more about these things. Ok, my boet works for Mercedez, so he only gets to drive them for a few months. He probably got the ones built on late Friday afternoon  :biggrin:

If you look at the going price and if they are reliable as you say, then it seems a pretty good deal for a work and back car.

Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: TrailBlazer on June 18, 2016, 08:50:07 am
And if the engine kaks on you, drop a Hayabusa motor into it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM)
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Dwerg on June 19, 2016, 10:29:21 am
Suzuki swift. Good value and great little cars and the girls love them. We have the 1.5VVT. Suprisingly nippy if you rev it and does 14km/l in town and 19 at the speed limit on the highway
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: RobC on June 19, 2016, 02:43:56 pm
While they run they are fine... but when things break you are out on a limb.

Two of my friends had them and both say never again. All the savings in fuel economy went down the tube when the motors wore out or the ECU computer packed up.
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Dwerg on June 20, 2016, 08:22:57 am
While they run they are fine... but when things break you are out on a limb.

Two of my friends had them and both say never again. All the savings in fuel economy went down the tube when the motors wore out or the ECU computer packed up.

People will have horror stories about any brand
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: RobC on June 20, 2016, 09:10:39 pm
While they run they are fine... but when things break you are out on a limb.

Two of my friends had them and both say never again. All the savings in fuel economy went down the tube when the motors wore out or the ECU computer packed up.

People will have horror stories about any brand
2 out of 2 is 2 too much... :sip:
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Weedkiller - Adie on August 24, 2016, 11:53:36 am
My wife owns a 2003 odd fortwo with 160 000 km.  On average these engines needs a rebuild at 100 000km.  Hers were done at about 110 000 a few years back for R11 000.00.

A few months ago the car suddenly lost power.  Se took it to the same crowd and they 'just fucked around'.  We eventually got the car back a few WEEKS and R7000.00 later (Overhauled the head due to burned valves.  600km later the car overheat and they gave us all sorts of stories, from no oil to turbo failure.  No compression etc etc.

At this stage I decided that I will do the job myself.  At least then I will know what I did or not do.  It seems as if the valves were burned (again)

A little research and I realized it will be possible to do the head (again) just by lowering the motor slightly.

On inspection it turned out that all three cylinders were heavily carbon ed up.  The chance of an oil leak via valve stem seals are thus excluded. Will have to go deeper.

Damages:
almost all valves was burnt, pistons had normal ring gap wear for 160 000km. No wear on the skirt.  The barrels were 'glassy' but still on std size. All valves was burnt and the wear were much more than what I expected.  They said they replaced the valves 600 km ago ??)  I don't know how but the one follower fell out (see pic)  Luckily it stayed clear or the cam lobe!!. Big ends was still in perfect condition and still on size. the cause for the oil consumption was collapsed oil rings on all pistons >:D

I bought std pistons, rings, full gasket set, full valve set, plugs and big end bearings. Total cost R 2 800.00 Even Merc does not sell the rubber tappet cover gasket anymore. 'You must seal it with gasket maker. (there are a recess for the original gasket that does not exist anymore.)

The tappet cover and sump were 'glued' together.  It took almost half an hour each to remove.  Rest came out fairly easy.  The one big end bolt heat was already stripped and it took some effort with the impact wrench to remove.  Somewhere along the line the valves also hit the pistons. (see dent on pic)

Ok, the head received new valves, stem seals and the 'lifters' were 'squeezed' to take new oil.  We also lapped the valves to remove the pitting.  fortunately most of the damage was on the valve itself and not the seat.

The small end on the con rod had to be heated to fit the gudion pin. The little 'lip' on one big end bearing had to be ground away as it seems they do not sell a 'left and right hand' set anymore. We tried to replace the big end bolts with allen caps (10.0).  These things are specially made with a 6.35 dia thread.  Ok, we then welded an allen cap head on the tbolt to replace the damaged Torx.  Worked like a charm.  that was also the only bolt that could be tightened to the correct spec.  All the torx started to slip due to prev damage.

With great anticipation we assembled the rest of the parts.  At the end I sat with 3 plugs on the wiring harnass with nowhere to go.  After a thorough we realized it is for the injectors.  Now this is a problem.  The motor is now fully mounted again and these little buggers are underneath the inlet manifold. NOO WAAI will I lower the motor again to lift the manifold.  I just loosened the bolts and could lift it high enough to squeeze the plus through.  With the help of welding rod I hot them on the plugs.

OK, ready to start.
I first cranked the motor a few times without the second set of spark plugs untill the oil light went off. Once all spark plugs was fitted  she fired up first time.  Due to the 'squeezing' of the lifters the motor was noisy and I intensely waited for it to quiet down.

Bled the water and let her get up to temp to see if there are any oil or water leaks. The one banjo bolt on the turbo cooling line leaked some water.  As I 'wanted' to tighten it a bit more it just broke off.  It seems that it was an old crack.  Replaced the banjo and re-test.

She is as quiet as an electric motor now and all seems OK.

The next phase is the plastics.  There are a few cracks and broken pieces. (these things just snap and crack.)  Will put a fibreglass tissue inside once I've glued the cracks to align properly.

Think of selling it but hey, for less than R3000.00 she can live another 100 000 km.

Will follow up on the body panel repairs soon.

Adie




Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: fixit on August 24, 2016, 02:38:40 pm
Interesting little motor. Are those push rods lifters hydraulic?

Connot see how it could have moved out like that?
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: Weedkiller - Adie on August 24, 2016, 03:00:27 pm
Interesting little motor. Are those push rods lifters hydraulic?

Connot see how it could have moved out like that?

It is actually a 'rocker cam follower' that pivot on an oil pressurized pin/tappet at one end.  A roller in the centre running on the cam and the other end pushing on the valve.  The  'tappet' is an oil filled little unit that extend to ensure the valve clearance stay ZERO.  I think the loss of oil pressure made it 'collapse' (It have a 4mm travel with no oil) and 'fell' out.

Apart for the compact/cramped design the motor is actually well thought out.  there are oil spray to lube the barrels an pistons from the bottom etc etc.

The interesting part is actually the gearbox.  It is a standard box with electronic shifting and clutch. It actually 'change gears'  ::)

Adie
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: fixit on August 24, 2016, 05:51:36 pm
Yes the oil spray is used in a few motors nowadays that I've seen.

Makes sense with the drop in oil pressure then that they can come out. So they are hydraulic then.
The Honda motor is very similar in design. I saw one fail at 7000rpm, where the one con rod was fitted the wrong way around, so no lubrication in the barrel. The hole for the oil spray was facing the wrong way.  ::)

The Honda motors must be one of the best I've ever seen. hardly a failure recorded under 100 000 km. 
 
Title: Re: Smart car
Post by: m0lt3n on August 24, 2016, 07:39:16 pm
Some good info Adie
What I have read on other forums I think Manic has been very lucky.

My stepfather actually just bought one as well and he is having loads of issues now. But he bought from family, paid R30k for a 900cc turbo cabriolet thingamajig.
The car died on him after family insisted the car was recently serviced but they want to deliver it on a trailer... so with some effort he sees spark plug on 3rd piston is burned. replaced suspecting no service but soon the same issue again.
So currently he has found A LOT of small issues, stripped stuff and small leaks and cuts in ignition leats and and. Sounds alot like Adie's experience on the workmanchip that the car has seen.
So he will see if its better whereafter he will also start digging into the engine. Some good info Adie, I will definitely refer him to this thread as I think he will probably have to go the same route.

Other small car options... I think a mini without turbo is cheap to maintain. But I wont be put off as easily just because of there not being a spare tyre.