Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: KarooKid on August 31, 2016, 12:58:08 pm

Title: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on August 31, 2016, 12:58:08 pm
Calling all the experts out there.

Which of these would you choose if the price and condition was similar?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Dux on August 31, 2016, 12:59:30 pm
WR  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: The_Crow on August 31, 2016, 01:07:07 pm
Would be keen to know as well. With some pros and cons from those in the know.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on August 31, 2016, 01:09:39 pm
Forgot to add. Not as a racing machine. To be used to play around with and maybe do the odd funduro.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Dux on August 31, 2016, 01:36:04 pm
The BMW was only made for a couple years , that alone kills resale value .
The WR is guaranteed to sell and will hold its value much better , reliability is not an issue with them and spares available is plentiful and being Yamaha very cost effective as well .
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: bud500 on August 31, 2016, 02:15:18 pm
WR for sure.

But the question is theoretical, as the BMW would always be cheaper if everything else was the same.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JMG on August 31, 2016, 02:37:52 pm
I'd take the WR, I stand to be corrected but the bm has a kymco engine in, not bmw
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 31, 2016, 02:49:38 pm
This is a kak question. :pot:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: ETS on August 31, 2016, 03:01:35 pm
If the price is similar the Yammie would be much older
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Clockwork Orange on August 31, 2016, 04:19:50 pm
 :laughing4:
This is a kak question. :pot:
:laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: melvman on August 31, 2016, 04:23:02 pm
KTM450....
oops, not on your list...
 :deal:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on August 31, 2016, 05:54:10 pm
I should have qualified that I meant all the experts except Dan (knew his answer before asking)  :biggrin:

I can elaborate more on the reason for my question (which I knew was kak)

I had a WR previously and had a bad experience. So wanting to get back in the game I was thinking of alternatives to meet my needs.

1. Fun, not too expensive bike to play around with (around R40k - if you tell me this is where my problems lie I'll accept it)
2. Reliable (I know the answer Dan)
3. Roadworthy if possible (therefore did not consider the KTM)

So hence I am asking the experts.

If you tell me to drop the idea of a roadworthy bike and can give me viable alternatives I am open to all.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on August 31, 2016, 06:29:54 pm
.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on August 31, 2016, 06:45:51 pm
WR250F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss65ljjFupA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss65ljjFupA)

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: The_Crow on August 31, 2016, 07:03:20 pm
WR250F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss65ljjFupA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss65ljjFupA)



I would love a on the road WR250F
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: masehare on August 31, 2016, 07:16:46 pm
WR250F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4)



This guy is making sense, but I feel only for someone who's going to do technical trail riding for a couple of hours or taking part in a funduro. If I read between the lines about KarooKid's requirements, he'll be travelling some distance on tar to get to trail with some technical sections that will be difficult with a 1190/1200 class bike. I was in the same situation and did the postal route with a roadworthy CRF230. The bike handles great in sand and slow technical sections, but just lacks that 170cc worth of power to lift the front wheel over a pothole when you're in the wrong gear. So you constantly need to play with the gears to keep the motor on the boil just in case. I now have a roadworthy 400 which will do 100km of tar (at 110km/h) with ease and handle quite well (with my limited skill) in technical sections. It has plenty of power to lift the front wheel over potholes, even if you're in the wrong gear - which I feel makes for a more comfortable ride. That being said, I also feel that a 650 would be too much bike for me in these types of conditions. The 400 is the sweet spot for me.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JustBendIt on August 31, 2016, 07:31:15 pm
I don't like the WR ... and I don't like the BMW either

Both have  got a 5 speed gearbox  - a 6th gear is really lekker to have

WR has a very light flywheel and revs like mad - also means it stalls easily and does not like to lug low down

I would suggest a 2006 - 2007 KTM 450 or 525 with RFS engine - my 525 has done 27 000 km and 415 hours with only one set of valves replaced at 360 hours.

The 525 may be a true 510 cc but it has a lot more low down torque than the 450 and feels less stressed hopefully meaning it will last longer - you don't have to wring its neck all the time like a 450

You can also get a lekker big 25 litre Acerbis tank which will give a 450 km plus range

It has 6 gears and can klap 160 kph - the last stage on last year's Amageza was just short of a 1000 km - that is kak far to ride on a plastic

It has a super low idle speed - when I'm tired in the back of Atlantis endure loop I can leave it in 3rd gear and it will go anywhere

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Scribble on August 31, 2016, 07:51:43 pm
I have a Drz and a Wr both 5 speed boxes two very different bikes
The lack of 6th gear is very noticeable on the tar I've ridden a smaller cc bike
With 6 gears and I can't for the life of me understand why the hell
All bikes don't have 6
when the time comes I will look into a good condition 525 or 450
That said with the long range tanks on the bike feels big
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on August 31, 2016, 08:26:07 pm
I do have a 1200 adv and do all longish rides with that. Did the Postal Route twice and the size is really not an issue.

What I am looking for is a bike I can ride 20km tar to go play with in the sand and bush. Or load it on the back of the bakkie and take it with for  the weekend.

The 525 sounds great. As long as it is reliable. I had a 690 once and having to rely on KTM Cape Town is not on my wish list.

How is the availablility of good 525's and would they fit the budget?

I've found a really nice bmw with 2900km and a WR with 5900km.

This sixth gear thing got me thinking now.

Speaking of milage. If well maintained what sort of milage can one expect from a small capacity engine like this?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 31, 2016, 08:56:12 pm
If you buy any KTM will you not be back in the hands of KTM Cape Town? :eek7:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on August 31, 2016, 08:59:48 pm
If you buy any KTM will you not be back in the hands of KTM Cape Town? :eek7:

Exactly my point. That is why I am trying to avoid that option at the moment. Unless there is other reputable workshops to assist. For some reason I just don't have faith in the brand. Despite the pedigree
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Xpat on August 31, 2016, 09:01:46 pm
If you don't care about warranty which is expired on older bikes like 525 anyway (is there a warranty on new dirt bikes?), why would you worry about KTM CT? Is there nobody else who can service KTMs in CT? I'm sure you can get parts overnight from Joburg easily.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Buff on August 31, 2016, 09:51:56 pm
Out of those 2 the WR is a no brainer but why limit yourself? Just keep an eye out here and you're bound to pick up a gem sooner or later. The Honda CFR450X is also a great bike as is the Kwaker KLX450 like Andrews  :thumleft: Old KTMs I personally wouldn't touch with a barge pole but that's just me  >:D
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Grolls on August 31, 2016, 10:15:33 pm
After the last one I may be the wrong guy to be giving you an answer 👍
Still have my wr - stripped the rally tower and this is my stuff around bike and I love this bike
Recently bought a new Husky 450
Chalk and cheese, but it costs more than your budget
6th gear, EFI , and way better suspension
Modern technology improves my riding ability in a huge way
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 31, 2016, 10:15:46 pm
If you don't care about warranty which is expired on older bikes like 525 anyway (is there a warranty on new dirt bikes?), why would you worry about KTM CT? Is there nobody else who can service KTMs in CT? I'm sure you can get parts overnight from Joburg easily.

Cecil Penny racing.
Eddy2race.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Hondsekierie on August 31, 2016, 10:23:48 pm
Maybe ask 2 x Amageza winner Bonova why he chose the BMW

Can't remember ever seeing a WR on the podium  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Hondsekierie on August 31, 2016, 10:25:50 pm
Oh, and go check Dakar stats as well  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 31, 2016, 10:40:02 pm
Oh, and go check Dakar stats as well  :biggrin:

And then look at sales stats, and the loooong G450 production run. ;)

BaasAttie ry hom sommer 4 keer in ses maande in sy moer. :imaposer:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 01, 2016, 06:48:33 am
Out of those 2 the WR is a no brainer but why limit yourself? Just keep an eye out here and you're bound to pick up a gem sooner or later. The Honda CFR450X is also a great bike as is the Kwaker KLX450 like Andrews  :thumleft: Old KTMs I personally wouldn't touch with a barge pole but that's just me  >:D

Thanks Buff. Actually thought about the CRF as well.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JMG on September 01, 2016, 06:59:01 am
Oh, and go check Dakar stats as well  :biggrin:

For shits and giggles I went looking for this, the last time BMW entered the Dakar was in 2011. Their hopes was for the top 15 but the motorad team could only manage top 30 and the privateer at no 70 of 90 bikes that finished.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JMG on September 01, 2016, 07:04:28 am
For not wanting to hijack this thread I did find something else but started a new thread for that.
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=198424.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=198424.0)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JustBendIt on September 01, 2016, 07:12:11 am
Calling all the experts out there.

Which of these would you choose if the price and condition was similar?

Let's go back to the original question

My answer Yamaha - only because it has a kickstart and the bmw kymco loncin does not

But then I must ask what do you want to do with the bike ?

If its just general putting around and not racing then almost any of the 450s made by the big boys in the last 8 - 10 years will be fine

Let's also assume that you have a max budget of R35 000 to spend on a toy like this - bikes like these are being advertised for anything from R25 000 - R40 000

Most important is condition and regular religious maintenance over the years - if this has not been done and cannot be proven then you are buying a potentially bottomless money pit

My order of preference

1. ktm 450 or 525 with RFS engine - because they have a 6 speed gearbox and overhead adjustable style tappets to set valve clearances - you don't have to take cams out to shim it - very important for my lazy ass
2. Husqvarna te450 or 510 - I had a te450 that is now with Crossed-Up - awesome bike - also has 6 speed gearbox
2. Yamaha wr450
3. bmw g450x - does not have a kickstart - riding a bike is much better than pushing it
4. Honda crf 450 - but you must look for one that has valves done
5. Kawasaki klx 450
6. Suzuki drz400 - bit of a donkey but reliable - no kickstart
7. Honda xr400r - ditto - kickstart only I think


Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 01, 2016, 08:26:46 am
Great reply. Thanks Justin
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: WildWood on September 01, 2016, 10:26:13 am
I'm no BM fan boy but for what you want to do I'd take the BM. Chris from Flying Brick uses the little GS and it makes a great rough tourer. I road the bike in Baviaans a while back and despite a Kak seat it was awesome. Light, turns well, smooth motor and plenty of available accessories. Add a rear fuel tank,oil cooler and little screen and away you go.

Kymco make great engines so no worries there.

If you were buying to do Enduro then another story, but trails and touring the BM.

Chances of getting one that hasn't been abused is also more likely for the BM.   
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 01, 2016, 10:38:57 am
I'm no BM fan boy but for what you want to do I'd take the BM. Chris from Flying Brick uses the little GS and it makes a great rough tourer. I road the bike in Baviaans a while back and despite a Kak seat it was awesome. Light, turns well, smooth motor and plenty of available accessories. Add a rear fuel tank,oil cooler and little screen and away you go.

Kymco make great engines so no worries there.

If you were buying to do Enduro then another story, but trails and touring the BM.

Chances of getting one that hasn't been abused is also more likely for the BM.   

Thanks WildWood. Appreciate objective feedback like this.

Hy head says WR, but my heart says BMW.

Just seems like the owners of the BM's in good condition wants too much for them.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 01, 2016, 10:43:09 am
WR250F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4)



This guy is making sense, but I feel only for someone who's going to do technical trail riding for a couple of hours or taking part in a funduro. If I read between the lines about KarooKid's requirements, he'll be travelling some distance on tar to get to trail with some technical sections that will be difficult with a 1190/1200 class bike. I was in the same situation and did the postal route with a roadworthy CRF230. The bike handles great in sand and slow technical sections, but just lacks that 170cc worth of power to lift the front wheel over a pothole when you're in the wrong gear. So you constantly need to play with the gears to keep the motor on the boil just in case. I now have a roadworthy 400 which will do 100km of tar (at 110km/h) with ease and handle quite well (with my limited skill) in technical sections. It has plenty of power to lift the front wheel over potholes, even if you're in the wrong gear - which I feel makes for a more comfortable ride. That being said, I also feel that a 650 would be too much bike for me in these types of conditions. The 400 is the sweet spot for me.

The difference between a WR250F and CRF230 is like the difference between a 911 and a beetle. I would imagine that the power to weight ratio of the WR250F is also better than the DRZ400. Also the WR has a 6 speed gearbox.

The new reverse motor WR250's go like shit off a shovel, and are just as reliable as the WR450's.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on September 01, 2016, 11:13:26 am
Hy head says WR, but my heart says BMW.

Just seems like the owners of the BM's in good condition wants too much for them.

In my mind it should be the other way around. Your head should say bmw and your heart WR.

I gather you want to do more trails and rough touring than racing and enduro or technical.

The only reason I would buy the BMW over the WR is if the cost is lower and they normally are roadworthy.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Hondsekierie on September 01, 2016, 12:12:54 pm
Oh, and go check Dakar stats as well  :biggrin:

For shits and giggles I went looking for this, the last time BMW entered the Dakar was in 2011. Their hopes was for the top 15 but the motorad team could only manage top 30 and the privateer at no 70 of 90 bikes that finished.

Did not for one moment imply running as top runner but more their ability to finish as well as reliability.

Wildwood actually said what I wanted to say, just a bit better  ;D

 
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JMG on September 01, 2016, 12:40:18 pm
Oh, and go check Dakar stats as well  :biggrin:

For shits and giggles I went looking for this, the last time BMW entered the Dakar was in 2011. Their hopes was for the top 15 but the motorad team could only manage top 30 and the privateer at no 70 of 90 bikes that finished.

Did not for one moment imply running as top runner but more their ability to finish as well as reliability.

Wildwood actually said what I wanted to say, just a bit better  ;D

 

Indeed my reply was merely stating fact and not opinion... So more like " out of curiosity " I wanted to see what the actual result was. the wiki article states their aim was top 15. In fact somewhere around stage 11 is where things went wrong that's when they moved from 13th overall to top 30 and this was due to navigation issues not bike related.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JacoM on September 01, 2016, 12:40:28 pm
Charl, If you want to do funduro's, play at Atlantis or Maccaser , do short or longer tours, etc. why not sell the GS and get a HP2? :biggrin:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 01, 2016, 12:59:06 pm
So, looking at a R35k-ish WR450, what should you expect? 08/09?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 01, 2016, 01:20:40 pm
The BMW made it onto the 10 worst dirt bikes I ever raced list for this famous bike tester.

http://motocrossactionmag.com/news/the-worst-bikes-i-ever-raced-by-jody-weisel (http://motocrossactionmag.com/news/the-worst-bikes-i-ever-raced-by-jody-weisel)

What he wrote is fooking funny  :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

A couple years ago I was hanging out at the track with the MXA gang when the Dirt Bike guys asked me if I’d like to ride the then-new BMW G450X. Although it wasn’t a motocross bike, I was still intrigued to throw a leg over this uniquely different machine — just to try it out and not to test it. It had a radically canted Taiwanese engine, a strange hanger-style frame and a swingarm pivot that was aligned with the countershaft sprocket. I’d learned long ago that creativity for creativity’s sake is never a good idea. I snicked the G450X into gear and roared off down the trail as the Dirt Bike guys turned and walked back to their truck, which was about 50 feet away. They were shocked when I showed up at their truck before they did. I climbed off of the BMW G450X, handed it back to them and said, “Thanks, but no thanks.”

“What’s wrong?” they asked.

“Everything,” I replied.

“But you couldn’t have ridden it more than 100 feet.”

“Actually, I rode it 200 feet. One hundred feet out and 100 feet back. I don’t need to ride it any farther. I’ve never ridden a bike that was so wrong, in so many ways, in such a short distance. Thanks anyway.”
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 01, 2016, 01:27:23 pm
Also my experience on the G450, designed by a company with no enduro background or knowledge, why would it work well if it were'nt for luck?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on September 01, 2016, 01:44:23 pm
I think the WR would be the less 'highly strung' bike, but cannot be sure...

What I DO know, it that in the States, SOME people are 'Adventurizing' the WR 450 (similar what I did to my G450X...), so it must have potential - i know one of my suppliers has recently launched an after-market, REAR-mounted CAMEL tank...

So I will watch this thread with interest, since I hear on USA Adv Rider, that it is becoming a popular 'mini Adv bike' etc
Cheers
Chris & Team

ok, just read your ORIGINAL post now, so that changes things a bit, but anyway!

Cheers
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 01, 2016, 01:51:24 pm
I think the WR would be the less 'highly strung' bike, but cannot be sure...

What I DO know, it that in the States, SOME people are 'Adventurizing' the WR 450 (similar what I did to my G450X...), so it must have potential - i know one of my suppliers has recently launched an after-market, REAR-mounted CAMEL tank...

So I will watch this thread with interest, since I hear on USA Adv Rider, that it is becoming a popular 'mini Adv bike' etc
Cheers
Chris & Team

That is a WR250R with a big bore kit in it. It is a dual sport bike and has absolutely nothing in common with a WR450 apart from the colour. The tank will not fit any of the WRF bikes
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 01, 2016, 01:57:19 pm
Ok. Let's say the budget is R45k.

What would you buy?

Buy at R35-R40k and spend some on it.

Buy a pristine one for R45?

This thread was meant to give me clarity. Instead it is opening up more options and things to think about.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Roxtar on September 01, 2016, 02:26:59 pm
I remember once reading a US test by a top rider stating the 450X was the worst of-froad bike he had ever ridden and that was just so much fundamentally wrong in the design.......... by rather from factories who know how to build real dirt bikes..... :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JustBendIt on September 01, 2016, 02:44:14 pm
Ok. Let's say the budget is R45k.

What would you buy?

Buy at R35-R40k and spend some on it.

Buy a pristine one for R45?

This thread was meant to give me clarity. Instead it is opening up more options and things to think about.

If the budget is 45k then don't buy for more than 40 max

There will always be a few grand to spend on any bike - the roadworthy license registration and number plate is gonna cost R1000 alone

Maybe it needs a tyre or brake pads or service etc - now you're in for a few more
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 01, 2016, 02:46:23 pm
Ok. Let's say the budget is R45k.

What would you buy?

Buy at R35-R40k and spend some on it.

Buy a pristine one for R45?

This thread was meant to give me clarity. Instead it is opening up more options and things to think about.

If the budget is 45k then don't buy for more than 40 max

There will always be a few grand to spend on any bike - the roadworthy license registration and number plate is gonna cost R1000 alone

Maybe it needs a tyre or brake pads or service etc - now you're in for a few more

I would look at everything in that price range and buy the neatest bike with the lowest hours, there is no such thing as a bad bike any more.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on September 01, 2016, 02:49:05 pm
I think the WR would be the less 'highly strung' bike, but cannot be sure...

What I DO know, it that in the States, SOME people are 'Adventurizing' the WR 450 (similar what I did to my G450X...), so it must have potential - i know one of my suppliers has recently launched an after-market, REAR-mounted CAMEL tank...

So I will watch this thread with interest, since I hear on USA Adv Rider, that it is becoming a popular 'mini Adv bike' etc
Cheers
Chris & Team

That is a WR250R with a big bore kit in it. It is a dual sport bike and has absolutely nothing in common with a WR450 apart from the colour. The tank will not fit any of the WRF bikes
apologies - will try and find WR450 picture now...  ;)
Chris
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 01, 2016, 02:54:06 pm
I think the WR would be the less 'highly strung' bike, but cannot be sure...

What I DO know, it that in the States, SOME people are 'Adventurizing' the WR 450 (similar what I did to my G450X...), so it must have potential - i know one of my suppliers has recently launched an after-market, REAR-mounted CAMEL tank...

So I will watch this thread with interest, since I hear on USA Adv Rider, that it is becoming a popular 'mini Adv bike' etc
Cheers
Chris & Team

That is a WR250R with a big bore kit in it. It is a dual sport bike and has absolutely nothing in common with a WR450 apart from the colour. The tank will not fit any of the WRF bikes
apologies - will try and find WR450 picture now...  ;)
Chris

Just be careful you don't import tanks for a bike that is not imported to SA; like the WR250R  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: spankme on September 01, 2016, 03:40:34 pm
07 up looking at 30 plus
dont go on having proof of service etc etc
You can see when a bikes been looked after
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: masehare on September 01, 2016, 05:11:03 pm
WR250F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2hV5OZPle4)



This guy is making sense, but I feel only for someone who's going to do technical trail riding for a couple of hours or taking part in a funduro. If I read between the lines about KarooKid's requirements, he'll be travelling some distance on tar to get to trail with some technical sections that will be difficult with a 1190/1200 class bike. I was in the same situation and did the postal route with a roadworthy CRF230. The bike handles great in sand and slow technical sections, but just lacks that 170cc worth of power to lift the front wheel over a pothole when you're in the wrong gear. So you constantly need to play with the gears to keep the motor on the boil just in case. I now have a roadworthy 400 which will do 100km of tar (at 110km/h) with ease and handle quite well (with my limited skill) in technical sections. It has plenty of power to lift the front wheel over potholes, even if you're in the wrong gear - which I feel makes for a more comfortable ride. That being said, I also feel that a 650 would be too much bike for me in these types of conditions. The 400 is the sweet spot for me.

The difference between a WR250F and CRF230 is like the difference between a 911 and a beetle. I would imagine that the power to weight ratio of the WR250F is also better than the DRZ400. Also the WR has a 6 speed gearbox.

The new reverse motor WR250's go like shit off a shovel, and are just as reliable as the WR450's.

After KarooKid made his requirements a bit more clearer, I would also go for the WR250.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Hondsekierie on September 01, 2016, 06:49:31 pm
Also my experience on the G450, designed by a company with no enduro background or knowledge, why would it work well if it were'nt for luck?

If it was that shit how did Peter manage to win the Amageza twice?  Pure luck I guess  :snorting:

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Crossed-up on September 01, 2016, 07:03:25 pm
Also my experience on the G450, designed by a company with no enduro background or knowledge, why would it work well if it were'nt for luck?

If it was that shit how did Peter manage to win the Amageza twice?  Pure luck I guess  :snorting:



That's the thing about navigation rally. Yes, his bike lasted the distance, but he was the most skillful navigator on those rallies. He made no errors, no wrong turns and no speeding infringements. It is probably also due to his careful nature that he brought his bike home in good condition. I think he'd probably have won on any of the competing bikes that was in reasonable condition.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Geel Kat on September 01, 2016, 07:13:42 pm
Here...

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=198464.0;topicseen (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=198464.0;topicseen)

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Hondsekierie on September 01, 2016, 07:25:36 pm
Also my experience on the G450, designed by a company with no enduro background or knowledge, why would it work well if it were'nt for luck?

If it was that shit how did Peter manage to win the Amageza twice?  Pure luck I guess  :snorting:



That's the thing about navigation rally. Yes, his bike lasted the distance, but he was the most skillful navigator on those rallies. He made no errors, no wrong turns and no speeding infringements. It is probably also due to his careful nature that he brought his bike home in good condition. I think he'd probably have won on any of the competing bikes that was in reasonable condition.

I will never buy into this argument.  It's not like he had no choice and he REALLY rates the G450

Sbtw, how did Yamaha fare in the Amageza?

My last post on this topic as i have no interest in any of these 2 x bikes.  Will just follow for the entertainment value
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: SteveD on September 01, 2016, 09:27:52 pm
If it was that shit how did Peter manage to win the Amageza twice?  Pure luck I guess  :snorting:

Twice? By my memory:

2011 - Dewald Huisamen
2012 - Tau
2013 - Peter How
2014 - Hentie Hanekom
2015 - Thomas Eich
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 01, 2016, 09:58:15 pm
Peter won one Amageza on the BMW G450X, and Tau won one on the WR450. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Whethefakawe on September 02, 2016, 12:58:17 am
Calling all the experts out there.

Which of these would you choose if the price and condition was similar?

Let's go back to the original question

My answer Yamaha - only because it has a kickstart and the bmw kymco loncin does not

But then I must ask what do you want to do with the bike ?

If its just general putting around and not racing then almost any of the 450s made by the big boys in the last 8 - 10 years will be fine

Let's also assume that you have a max budget of R35 000 to spend on a toy like this - bikes like these are being advertised for anything from R25 000 - R40 000

Most important is condition and regular religious maintenance over the years - if this has not been done and cannot be proven then you are buying a potentially bottomless money pit

My order of preference

1. ktm 450 or 525 with RFS engine - because they have a 6 speed gearbox and overhead adjustable style tappets to set valve clearances - you don't have to take cams out to shim it - very important for my lazy ass
2. Husqvarna te450 or 510 - I had a te450 that is now with Crossed-Up - awesome bike - also has 6 speed gearbox
2. Yamaha wr450
3. bmw g450x - does not have a kickstart - riding a bike is much better than pushing it
4. Honda crf 450 - but you must look for one that has valves done
5. Kawasaki klx 450
6. Suzuki drz400 - bit of a donkey but reliable - no kickstart
7. Honda xr400r - ditto - kickstart only I think




Good explanation. Allow me to fine-tune a bit.

The short answer to WR450F or BMW 450x is, the Yamaha every time.

First, the 250 or bigger issue. While it's hard to have more fun than on a 250 4-stroke, the ONE thing that makes a 250 undesirable is the maintenance schedule. ALL 250 4-strokes. Fact is, it's a small engine that works hard. Your auntie google can tell you all about hourly maintenance intervals. I don't know if you're a pro racer, but a 250 requires more maintenance PERIOD.

Agree with maintenance history aspect. A bike that's had 4 previous owners is a BIG no-no. Try and find a one-owner bike that has been cared for. And don't EVER buy ANY bike from a racer, pro or not  :3some:

For trailriding or light dualsporting you REALLY need a 6-speed.

The KTM RFS engine is reliable as an anvil. A 2006-2008 KTM 450 or 525 XC-W (or whatever they designated it then) in good shape, is an outstanding machine.

I wouldn't touch a BMW 450 X with a barge pole. Strange experimental technology - if it was so great, why did NOBODY copy it, and why was it only made for what? 2 years?  Think SPARES. Not to mention, even when new it couldn't hold a candle to the real dirtbikes. Google "BMW 450 X reviews" and see for yourself.

Same with older Huskies. The 610's etc, before KTM bought the name. Good bikes, but too much of a chequered last two decades, with the brand going out of business, being sold, swapped, restarted etc. Again, think SPARES AVAILABILITY.

You can't go wrong with any 250 or 450 KTM, Yamaha or Honda - keeping in mind the 250 maintenance issue.

CRF 450's had a year or two with valve issues, avoid those years but generally speaking, excellent bikes. The 2008 model is considered the best of the line, the two or three years after that not so much.

Suzuki DRZ 400 is a nice reliable bike but takes big investment to make dirt-worthy. Excellent light dualsport, though.

Honda XR 400 is brilliant, but old school, if you don't know how to kickstart a big 4-stroke, stay away  :lol8:

Generally, stay away from KX's and KLX's. Engines not too bad but evertyhing else is shite. Also, KLX not made anymore.

The shortlist:
1) Honda, KTM, Yamaha
2) If you do get a 250, be aware you're going to k@k en betaal maintenance-wise.

I'm not familiar anymore with street-legal requirements in SA. If you REALLY need a plated bike, your choices would be limited by whatever that requires.

Generally speaking - if you can't maintain a dirt bike yourself - besides major engine rebuilds or suspension modification - you probably shouldn't own one.  All the whingeing about dealers that fecked you on your 450SX/YZ/CRF service baffles me.  
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 04:53:21 am
After reading that I am sure of one thing at least - 450 4-stroke.

Now it is just about finding the right one.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 05:02:39 am
Funny thing that always comes out is how some swear by one brand and others will never touch it.

Had some say stay away from BMW and older KTM and others saying they are bulletproof.

In terms of bikes I like my BMW's, but would also like to get the right toy to play with and there must be merits in brands specializing in enduro bikes.

Would something like this then be an option? - http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/claremont-newlands/2007-ktm-450-xcw/1001745399660910395216009 (http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-motorcycles-scooters/claremont-newlands/2007-ktm-450-xcw/1001745399660910395216009)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JustBendIt on September 02, 2016, 06:09:18 am
YES that ktm 450 should work well - everything exactly the same as the 525 just smaller engine - 2007 is also the last year that the RFS (racing four stroke engine) was produced. The RFS engine has a water pump driven by the camshaft and has overhead adjustable style tappets to set valve clearances - you do not take the camshaft out to shim the valves - this is important to me because I check valve clearances often - not as often as every 10 hours like KTM specify under racing conditions - I do it every 50 hours but that is still often enough compared to the 950 I am used to that gets checked every 15 000 km.

You can get 4 different fuel tanks for that bike - std is 8l, acerbis make a 13l and 25l and safari make a 15l - the 25l is the best value for money and will give you a range of 450 km.

Find out how many hours it has done - it has an hour meter on its instrument cluster - press the 0 button on the right until total hours are displayed. KTM spec a top end rebuild and valve replacement every 150 hours. My 525 was only done on 360 hours before Amageza last year - but then it was previously owned and cared for by 2 pensioners WayneH and Pure Orange. I have done another 100 hours since then. My "bottom end" (sounds rude) has never been opened - bike has 27 000 km on it now. If you do the top end rebuild with std valves you can budget on R2500 - I used Kibblewhite valves and springs and it cost R5000 but then these are much better and stronger than std and in 100 hours since fitment the clearances have not changed.

In 2008 KTM replaced the RFS engine with the XC4 engine design in the 450 and 530 - lots of people have had bad experiences with this but then again lots more love them - DesmoDirt has 4 of them and never had a day's hit - ChrisMann has a rally 530 that fucks off like greased lightning.

The XC4 engine has a split gearbox and crankcase oil supply - each holds about 600 ml oil - there were several problems with oil migration and premature engine failure due to low oil levels probably because owners did not keep a strict eye on the oil levels. There is a modification that can be done where you drill through the casings so that they share the same oil supply - but that involves splitting the casings.

The XC4 engine was replaced in 2012 when KTM went to the current engine with fuel injection.

The 2017 bikes which are being launched now have a new engine design apparently - but they are well over R100K - one day when I'm big ...
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 06:31:49 am
Thanks Justin.

Will find out and report back.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: MaxThePanda on September 02, 2016, 07:42:13 am

I will never buy into this argument.  It's not like he had no choice and he REALLY rates the G450


To be fair here, Peter's G450 has had an entire front end swap - from a Yamaha YZ! Those KYB SSS forks he's using are widely considered the best production forks on the market. The standard stuff on the G450 is shit, so Peter's bike is a bit of a Frankenstein. Peter is a smooth and fast rider, and a terrific navigator, but there comes a time, at 120kph out in the middle of the desert, when you hit that rut you weren't expecting and that upgrade saves your bacon.

Now this is from the perspective of a racer, and one could argue that for pottering around it doesn't make any difference. And to some extent that's true. But if you're buying a small bike to play, do funduros, rough tour etc. then at some point you're going to start pushing the bike and challenging yourself more in the terrain.

For my money, the RFS KTM, at least in part because of the suspension. That OC WP stuff is well understood, easily tuneable, and the spares and backup is just a bonus. Perhaps the CRF and WR as a second choice.

I wouldn't touch the G450 with a barge pole for funduro riding. Maybe for light touring - BMW are good with spares so maybe they'll keep supporting it long term.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 02, 2016, 08:13:47 am
Calling all the experts out there.

Which of these would you choose if the price and condition was similar?

Let's go back to the original question

My answer Yamaha - only because it has a kickstart and the bmw kymco loncin does not

But then I must ask what do you want to do with the bike ?

If its just general putting around and not racing then almost any of the 450s made by the big boys in the last 8 - 10 years will be fine

Let's also assume that you have a max budget of R35 000 to spend on a toy like this - bikes like these are being advertised for anything from R25 000 - R40 000

Most important is condition and regular religious maintenance over the years - if this has not been done and cannot be proven then you are buying a potentially bottomless money pit

My order of preference

1. ktm 450 or 525 with RFS engine - because they have a 6 speed gearbox and overhead adjustable style tappets to set valve clearances - you don't have to take cams out to shim it - very important for my lazy ass
2. Husqvarna te450 or 510 - I had a te450 that is now with Crossed-Up - awesome bike - also has 6 speed gearbox
2. Yamaha wr450
3. bmw g450x - does not have a kickstart - riding a bike is much better than pushing it
4. Honda crf 450 - but you must look for one that has valves done
5. Kawasaki klx 450
6. Suzuki drz400 - bit of a donkey but reliable - no kickstart
7. Honda xr400r - ditto - kickstart only I think




Good explanation. Allow me to fine-tune a bit.

The short answer to WR450F or BMW 450x is, the Yamaha every time.

First, the 250 or bigger issue. While it's hard to have more fun than on a 250 4-stroke, the ONE thing that makes a 250 undesirable is the maintenance schedule. ALL 250 4-strokes. Fact is, it's a small engine that works hard. Your auntie google can tell you all about hourly maintenance intervals. I don't know if you're a pro racer, but a 250 requires more maintenance PERIOD.

Agree with maintenance history aspect. A bike that's had 4 previous owners is a BIG no-no. Try and find a one-owner bike that has been cared for. And don't EVER buy ANY bike from a racer, pro or not  :3some:

For trailriding or light dualsporting you REALLY need a 6-speed.

The KTM RFS engine is reliable as an anvil. A 2006-2008 KTM 450 or 525 XC-W (or whatever they designated it then) in good shape, is an outstanding machine.

I wouldn't touch a BMW 450 X with a barge pole. Strange experimental technology - if it was so great, why did NOBODY copy it, and why was it only made for what? 2 years?  Think SPARES. Not to mention, even when new it couldn't hold a candle to the real dirtbikes. Google "BMW 450 X reviews" and see for yourself.

Same with older Huskies. The 610's etc, before KTM bought the name. Good bikes, but too much of a chequered last two decades, with the brand going out of business, being sold, swapped, restarted etc. Again, think SPARES AVAILABILITY.

You can't go wrong with any 250 or 450 KTM, Yamaha or Honda - keeping in mind the 250 maintenance issue.

CRF 450's had a year or two with valve issues, avoid those years but generally speaking, excellent bikes. The 2008 model is considered the best of the line, the two or three years after that not so much.

Suzuki DRZ 400 is a nice reliable bike but takes big investment to make dirt-worthy. Excellent light dualsport, though.

Honda XR 400 is brilliant, but old school, if you don't know how to kickstart a big 4-stroke, stay away  :lol8:

Generally, stay away from KX's and KLX's. Engines not too bad but evertyhing else is shite. Also, KLX not made anymore.

The shortlist:
1) Honda, KTM, Yamaha
2) If you do get a 250, be aware you're going to k@k en betaal maintenance-wise.

I'm not familiar anymore with street-legal requirements in SA. If you REALLY need a plated bike, your choices would be limited by whatever that requires.

Generally speaking - if you can't maintain a dirt bike yourself - besides major engine rebuilds or suspension modification - you probably shouldn't own one.  All the whingeing about dealers that fecked you on your 450SX/YZ/CRF service baffles me.  

Brilliantly done. I agree with 90% of what you said. I think if you are racing then perhaps the maintainance on 250 4t will cost more. For average weekend hack this will not be the case. These bikes are making so much power now that the average rider will only be able to utilize 60% most of the time. The maintainace only goes up when they are bounced off the rev limiter in every gear all the time.
Title: Re:
Post by: monkeyboy on September 02, 2016, 10:53:33 am
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors. 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
Title: Re:
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 11:07:39 am
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors. 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

The Bavarian theme runs deep with me...........
Title: Re:
Post by: JustBendIt on September 02, 2016, 11:11:03 am
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors.  

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

The Bavarian theme runs deep with me...........

Don't let it bend you over and thrust deep

I know you love your boxer beemers

The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles - but that's where the Bavarian theme stops in the 450

Title: Re:
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 11:25:22 am
I'd say the WR, even taking into account that we are kinda Bavarian ambassadors.  

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

The Bavarian theme runs deep with me...........

Don't let it bend you over and thrust deep

I know you love your boxer beemers

The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles - but that's where the Bavarian theme stops in the 450



 :imaposer:  :imaposer:  :imaposer:

KTM is still available, but not getting back to my questions.

Found a WR with 5900km. Motard being converted back to a endure.

I might have come across a really neat BMW as well.....

Should I make my Facebook Status - It's Complicated?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 02, 2016, 11:35:59 am
The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles -

They are also both dead, but people still like them and talk about them

:laughing7:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 11:40:50 am
The 450 BMW is as similar to a boxer BMW as what Linda Lovelace was to Mother Theresa - both are motorcycles -

They are also both dead, but people still like them and talk about them

:laughing7:

Like them and talk about them for different reasons though
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 02, 2016, 11:42:51 am
Hehehe... Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Im also peeking with one eye at the WR450...
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 11:46:50 am
Hehehe... Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Im also peeking with one eye at the WR450...

Same one I am looking at?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 02, 2016, 11:48:06 am
No, no, just in general.

Gatjeuk, jy weet?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 02, 2016, 11:48:32 am
Just remind me again, you want street legal?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 11:59:39 am
Gatjeuk ek weet al te goed. This is what this thread is about.

Street legal would be first prize. Would prefer to ride short distances rather than load it.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 02, 2016, 12:08:26 pm
Cool, will share links if I find something relevant.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JacoM on September 02, 2016, 01:10:25 pm
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=184263.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=184263.0)

Charl, Is the YZ with WR gearbox , if on the road, not your solution? We know Rolling Stone so bike can be trusted?
Add R1000 for courier (cannot remember the name of courier I used but owner is also a biker - pm me if you need it..)

ps..What do you think about my comment of earlier?? ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 01:29:21 pm
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=184263.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=184263.0)

Charl, Is the YZ with WR gearbox , if on the road, not your solution? We know Rolling Stone so bike can be trusted?
Add R1000 for courier (cannot remember the name of courier I used but owner is also a biker - pm me if you need it..)

ps..What do you think about my comment of earlier?? ;)

Thanks Jaco ek sal bietjie kyk.

Ek stem oor die HP. Het dit wragtag oorweeg, maar dan slag my vrou my.

Ry julle nog by Macassar?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on September 02, 2016, 04:16:10 pm
KK ek weet dis nie in die 450 klas nie maar wat is jou opinie oor die Xchallenge vir wat jy met die fiets wil doen?
BMW
Roadworthy.
Nog lig genoeg om baie tegnies te ry.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 02, 2016, 04:24:31 pm
Oom Chris, if I may...

I might make myself unpopular with their owners, but the X-Challenge, to me, is one of the worst 650 bikes ever. (If used as the sales & marketing jargon suggests)

It is actually moera heavy and makes piss poor power for a 650 class bike.

And a seat that makes a DRZ seat feel like a Lazyboy.

And that ridiculous tennis ball for a rear suspension?

Nee hel, I was left highly disappointed.

*Disclaimer*
Just my opinion
 :)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on September 02, 2016, 04:26:11 pm
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 05:04:33 pm
Ek het dit ook oorweeg, alhoewel ek in sommige opsigte saam met Bus stem.

Ek dink ek gaan redelik van die speel idee weghaal as ek 'n X kry. Hy is te swaar vir sekere goed en die airshock sal moet gaan.

Maar daar is minder onderhoud en ander voordele. Dit is net nie 100% die tool vir die job nie.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: katana on September 02, 2016, 05:08:30 pm
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 05:19:27 pm
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.

Ek wil net weer quarry toe n slag
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Crossed-up on September 02, 2016, 06:42:07 pm
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.

Ek wil net weer quarry toe n slag

And we look forward to your return. Come on your 1200. We'll stay away from the really tight tracks. Sack used to ride his 1200 there and had great fun.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 02, 2016, 07:39:51 pm
Tussen die twee is net die WR 'n wenner. Ek dink jy moet jou vorige bike se stories vergeet. Dit was of bad luck of bad maintenance.

Ek wil net weer quarry toe n slag

And we look forward to your return. Come on your 1200. We'll stay away from the really tight tracks. Sack used to ride his 1200 there and had great fun.



If I am not back on a 450 by next weekend, I'll bring the Adventure 👍👍
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Gensetter on September 03, 2016, 09:42:24 am
No contest between WR an BM. Jade Gutzeit had  BM for a season, with WR front suspension.
I have ridden both and in standard trim the R ins hands down.
The parts for a WR are super cheap and readily available.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: wolf skaap on September 03, 2016, 05:35:01 pm
Just go ahead and buy the BMW.
You obviously have a thing for them and that's just fine.

To be honest, arriving 10 seconds later on the slowest 450 will make no difference to you anyway.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Buff on September 03, 2016, 08:02:09 pm
KK, if you're interested I have a mate selling his 2008 WR450. It's a clean bike with 50hours on the clock and he's asking R45K. Has a fan & fmf pipe and is licensed. Drop me a PM with your email address and I can send you some photos.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: SteveD on September 03, 2016, 08:50:13 pm
....the X-Challenge, to me, is one of the worst 650 bikes ever. (If used as the sales & marketing jargon suggests)
It is actually moera heavy and makes piss poor power for a 650 class bike.
And a seat that makes a DRZ seat feel like a Lazyboy.
And that ridiculous tennis ball for a rear suspension?

I own one, and you are right.
I had to replace the tennis ball, that horrible seat, and a few other bits. It is heavy and underpowered compared with other 650s. And a bit sluggish, not exactly a highly strung thoroughbred.
But I still like it, plenty.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: sidetrack on September 03, 2016, 09:16:15 pm
It just seems some guys are BM fans and they are willing to look past everything that made the 450X bit of a oddball and go for it. That being said I'm sure many people will be quite happy with them but really there are much better options.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 03, 2016, 09:51:42 pm
It just seems some guys are BM fans and they are willing to look past everything that made the 450X bit of a oddball and go for it. That being said I'm sure many people will be quite happy with them but really there are much better options.

This made me think about my cycling days.

Cycling is a classic sport where normal people believe their equipment will give them the edge. Therefor you'll get guys pitching at races with a lekker boep and a R150k bicycle.

But they feature nowhere in the race. I always said - you can give Burry Stander a BMX and he will still beat 90% of the people in a mtb race.

Same goes for bikes I guess. You can have the best tool for the job. But most of us are not skilled enough to ride a bike to its full potential.

Maybe it is less about what you ride and more about getting out there.

I am sure Wade Young will make a MotoMia look good compared to me.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 03, 2016, 11:30:30 pm
That was well said KarooKid!!

My old XT600E is also quite a dog, chassis-wise, yet to me it is a 690 and an R1, I love this bike!
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Omninorm on September 04, 2016, 11:36:35 pm
....the X-Challenge, to me, is one of the worst 650 bikes ever. (If used as the sales & marketing jargon suggests)
It is actually moera heavy and makes piss poor power for a 650 class bike.
And a seat that makes a DRZ seat feel like a Lazyboy.
And that ridiculous tennis ball for a rear suspension?

I own one, and you are right.
I had to replace the tennis ball, that horrible seat, and a few other bits. It is heavy and underpowered compared with other 650s. And a bit sluggish, not exactly a highly strung thoroughbred.
But I still like it, plenty.


I ride an XChallenge as well and to the OP. I don't  Go for the WR450 in his case But...

How is the XChallenge heavy and underpowered?
The only 650 road going Thumper that weighs less and makes more power is the 690 and the Honda 650R and the R is not a road bike.
Replace the tennis ball and it's pretty good.

But yeah...WR450 would be my choice here but otherwise the above mentioned Honda 650R would also be good!
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 05, 2016, 12:47:55 am

Lots of great comments here and interesting discussion.

Oh, and go check Dakar stats as well  :biggrin:

For shits and giggles I went looking for this, the last time BMW entered the Dakar was in 2011. Their hopes was for the top 15 but the motorad team could only manage top 30 and the privateer at no 70 of 90 bikes that finished.

Did not for one moment imply running as top runner but more their ability to finish as well as reliability.

Wildwood actually said what I wanted to say, just a bit better  ;D

 

Indeed my reply was merely stating fact and not opinion... So more like " out of curiosity " I wanted to see what the actual result was. the wiki article states their aim was top 15. In fact somewhere around stage 11 is where things went wrong that's when they moved from 13th overall to top 30 and this was due to navigation issues not bike related.

Also my experience on the G450, designed by a company with no enduro background or knowledge, why would it work well if it were'nt for luck?

If it was that shit how did Peter manage to win the Amageza twice?  Pure luck I guess  :snorting:





I was super excited when the G450 came out, stoked to see them race in the Dakar and all over the place, but was really bummed when it was discontinued. The reason was BMW does not do racing bikes.

It was actually a Speedbrain-BMW partnership and Speedbrain left after BMW told them they were not to get involved with the design of or suggest modifications to the engine. The classic case of engineers and their ego's.

And that was that. No more 450 as BMW's target market is the 304050 something tough guy on a big bikes image. (no offence to anyone! :laughing7:)

The bikes were really, really fast in an era when the anything bigger than the 690 engine was deemed to be too big and dangerous for the Dakar by the ASO. You will recall up until that time, the KTM 690 had become the best rally bike thanks to many years of R&D by KTM.

In 2009, against the better judgement most rally enthusiasts David Fretigne famously showed that he could be competitive in the Dakar in a WR 450 with Yamaha France being the "factory team". He won a few stages and was up in the top 3-4 if I recall correctly against the bigger and faster 690's. This was after a few disastrous experiments he had riding with the 2-track WR in Africa.

People saw that a lighter bike had some advantages especially on the more WRC type stages in the South American Dakar, and, coupled with the onset of the 450 rule which was announced in 2009, it was a real opportunity for manufacturers to try and get a better hand on KTM who had begun to totally dominate.

Unfortunately Yamaha never could get their act together and form a proper factory team; it was always without support from Japan, and I suppose infighting spelt the demise of the official Yamaha effort. It has always been a bike that has had to be modified for rally purposes...not ideal for winning, but a good option for a privateer like me who just wants to finish a rally. The WR engines are bullet proof. Seriously, they can be pushed at full gas far harder for far longer than any KTM EXC.

But I digress, back to BMW:

Speedbrain was headed up by some really experienced rally guys and they teamed up with BMW to build the G450. It was a beautiful, well balanced bike and the front sprocket in line with the swing arm was thought to be something really clever along with the first version of what we now call "rally light" fairing setups.

It proved to be a really quick bike winning podiums on a number of the shorter rallies. It also won multiple stages on the Dakar, but the engine gearboxes grenaded without warning on multiple occasions in the latter part of the Dakar over a couple of years. They were mostly being ridden by top factory guys, being maintained really well each night in the bivouacs by Speedbrain. But the damn engine and particularly the gearbox left rider stranded not only on the Dakar, but also at the Brazilian Sertoes rally. It seemed these bikes could not do the distance. That front sprocket in line with the swing arm bearing was clearly not working out, and while we will never get to hear the real story behind it there as a massive falling out between Speedbrain & BMW I am sure was about that new configuration. I was gutted.

No doubt about it Peter is super fast on his BMW. Its still a good, light, very fast, fuel efficient bike, but the model does have a history of problems that were never properly resolved. All due respect to the Amageza, but its only 1/3 to 1/2 the length of a Dakar, perhaps the perfect distance for a G450, which won other similar rallies like the Pharoes. Over Dakar distances, however, the BMW was quickly relegated into obscurity.

Nothing to do with any rider's ability whatsoever.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 05, 2016, 12:50:29 am
Not that all that was any help in answering your question. ;D

I have become a WR fan, through and through. The carb on the old bikes is a bit of a bitch to get to though! Would be keen to take a new EFI bike that has been properly mapped for a spin at some point. :laughing7:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 05, 2016, 04:55:33 am
Interesting observation and a nice little history lesson on the BMW.

If I was looking for a racing bike, KTM with their pedigree probably would have been the obvious choice, but racing is not on my priority list at all.

Quick question. How closely related is the BMW to the Husky's. I know back then BM bought Husqvarna so surely there should be some similarities.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 05, 2016, 08:02:07 am
There was an association with Husky's for a while but that relationship also did not last - I suspect for the same reason the Speedbrain BMW relationship did not work.

As you likely know Husqvarna is now owned by KTM, and seemed to be coming into its own as a kind of prototype breed of KTM. Its rumored that KTM try out new tweaks and angles on the Husky rather than on their main brand. Its also seen flavors of KTM coming into it which is not a bad thing in itself either. For example there is a very sweet Husky 700 that has the frame of the KTM 450 RR/690 RR and the tanks of the new 450 rally replica as well. Its a thing of beauty and I want one! ;D

I think KTM understand also that Husky has always attracted independent thinkers, and their very loyal following (blazes on the forum or used to be is one) were super concerned it would just become the test brand for KTM. Instead they have allowed the brand to continue rather than die and be absorbed which is brilliant.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 05, 2016, 03:54:24 pm
There was an association with Husky's for a while but that relationship also did not last - I suspect for the same reason the Speedbrain BMW relationship did not work.

As you likely know Husqvarna is now owned by KTM, and seemed to be coming into its own as a kind of prototype breed of KTM. Its rumored that KTM try out new tweaks and angles on the Husky rather than on their main brand. Its also seen flavors of KTM coming into it which is not a bad thing in itself either. For example there is a very sweet Husky 700 that has the frame of the KTM 450 RR/690 RR and the tanks of the new 450 rally replica as well. Its a thing of beauty and I want one! ;D

I think KTM understand also that Husky has always attracted independent thinkers, and their very loyal following (blazes on the forum or used to be is one) were super concerned it would just become the test brand for KTM. Instead they have allowed the brand to continue rather than die and be absorbed which is brilliant.

I have actually heard that KTM wants to, over longer-term, concentrate on roadgoing machines and shift the race-emphasis to Husky.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 05, 2016, 04:47:14 pm
There was an association with Husky's for a while but that relationship also did not last - I suspect for the same reason the Speedbrain BMW relationship did not work.

As you likely know Husqvarna is now owned by KTM, and seemed to be coming into its own as a kind of prototype breed of KTM. Its rumored that KTM try out new tweaks and angles on the Husky rather than on their main brand. Its also seen flavors of KTM coming into it which is not a bad thing in itself either. For example there is a very sweet Husky 700 that has the frame of the KTM 450 RR/690 RR and the tanks of the new 450 rally replica as well. Its a thing of beauty and I want one! ;D

I think KTM understand also that Husky has always attracted independent thinkers, and their very loyal following (blazes on the forum or used to be is one) were super concerned it would just become the test brand for KTM. Instead they have allowed the brand to continue rather than die and be absorbed which is brilliant.

There was a little more than an association with BMW and Husqvarna; BMW bought Husqvarna in 2007 from Cagiva. As far as I recall they wanted to get into the offroad market.

Unfortunately, typical of Germans, instead of going the Husqvarna route they imposed their will and forced their shitty ideas onto the Italians who were still building the red Huskys in Italy. The G450X was sent to Italy and after being tinkered with was turned into the Husqvarna TE449 and TE511, which were both basically G450X's in different clothing, the 511 being a longer stroke version. They also sent the GS800 engine to Italy and after tinkering the Italians produced the Nuda 900. The same with the GS650 which became the TR650.

Speedbrain used the Husqvarna TE449 for their Dakar effort when their so called collaboration with BMW ended, however it was just the development of the same BMW G450X in different colours.

Husqvarna was not bought by KTM, it was basically given to the KTM boss, Stefan Pierer, for a token amount.

The original Italian Husqvarna factory has reopened under Chinese management and they are building some of the bikes that Husqvarna were building before BMW came along. BMW have refused to supply engines or components to these new Chinese owners and none of the BMW / Husqvarna's are being built anymore.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Dux on September 05, 2016, 05:02:50 pm

The original Italian Husqvarna factory has reopened under Chinese management and they are building some of the bikes that Husqvarna were building before BMW came along. BMW have refused to supply engines or components to these new Chinese owners and none of the BMW / Husqvarna's are being built anymore.

And are now called SWM
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 05, 2016, 05:16:08 pm

The original Italian Husqvarna factory has reopened under Chinese management and they are building some of the bikes that Husqvarna were building before BMW came along. BMW have refused to supply engines or components to these new Chinese owners and none of the BMW / Husqvarna's are being built anymore.

And are now called SWM

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 05, 2016, 05:55:54 pm
There was an association with Husky's for a while but that relationship also did not last - I suspect for the same reason the Speedbrain BMW relationship did not work.

As you likely know Husqvarna is now owned by KTM, and seemed to be coming into its own as a kind of prototype breed of KTM. Its rumored that KTM try out new tweaks and angles on the Husky rather than on their main brand. Its also seen flavors of KTM coming into it which is not a bad thing in itself either. For example there is a very sweet Husky 700 that has the frame of the KTM 450 RR/690 RR and the tanks of the new 450 rally replica as well. Its a thing of beauty and I want one! ;D

I think KTM understand also that Husky has always attracted independent thinkers, and their very loyal following (blazes on the forum or used to be is one) were super concerned it would just become the test brand for KTM. Instead they have allowed the brand to continue rather than die and be absorbed which is brilliant.

There was a little more than an association with BMW and Husqvarna; BMW bought Husqvarna in 2007 from Cagiva. As far as I recall they wanted to get into the offroad market.

Unfortunately, typical of Germans, instead of going the Husqvarna route they imposed their will and forced their shitty ideas onto the Italians who were still building the red Huskys in Italy. The G450X was sent to Italy and after being tinkered with was turned into the Husqvarna TE449 and TE511, which were both basically G450X's in different clothing, the 511 being a longer stroke version. They also sent the GS800 engine to Italy and after tinkering the Italians produced the Nuda 900. The same with the GS650 which became the TR650.

Speedbrain used the Husqvarna TE449 for their Dakar effort when their so called collaboration with BMW ended, however it was just the development of the same BMW G450X in different colours.

Husqvarna was not bought by KTM, it was basically given to the KTM boss, Stefan Pierer, for a token amount.

The original Italian Husqvarna factory has reopened under Chinese management and they are building some of the bikes that Husqvarna were building before BMW came along. BMW have refused to supply engines or components to these new Chinese owners and none of the BMW / Husqvarna's are being built anymore.

Thanks for the clarification. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bwana on September 06, 2016, 04:56:34 pm
new suggestion.
How about the new Honda CRF450x being launched later this year apparently a completely new bike.. Cant be bad considering the 2016 has just won the world MXGP championship.

http://www.hondaprokevin.com/2017-honda-crf450r-crf450rx-review-specs-motorcycles-dirt-race-bikes-trail-crf-450 (http://www.hondaprokevin.com/2017-honda-crf450r-crf450rx-review-specs-motorcycles-dirt-race-bikes-trail-crf-450)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: The_Crow on September 06, 2016, 05:43:23 pm
Where does a YZ450 with a WR box fit into all of this?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: sidetrack on September 06, 2016, 05:50:39 pm
Where does a YZ450 with a WR box fit into all of this?
Even more difficult to roadworthy, no lights, lighter flywheel and no side stand so not in the same league unless it will be a play bike only
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: The_Crow on September 07, 2016, 09:50:14 am
Even more difficult to roadworthy, no lights, lighter flywheel and no side stand so not in the same league unless it will be a play bike only

This one comes with a side stand fitted, bigger tank and is on the road.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: sidetrack on September 07, 2016, 11:29:55 am
Even more difficult to roadworthy, no lights, lighter flywheel and no side stand so not in the same league unless it will be a play bike only

This one comes with a side stand fitted, bigger tank and is on the road.
That sounds great
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 08:48:15 am
So after reading and taking in all the advice it seemed like the WR would be to bike to go for.

In the end I looked at my needs, budget, and what was available.

I was lucky to get my hands on a virtually new BMW g450x. It has only 7 hours on the clock (290km) and is in perfect condition with a few extras. Beautiful machine.

I took the bike to Eddy2Race to check everything over and I am mightily impressed with his service and the fact that he can be objective despite being a Husqvarna man. Eddy confirmed the bike was in perfect mechanical condition.

I guess in the end it comes down to what WolfSkaap said on Dan's thread - nobody can decide for you.

Let's see how this goes. I am confident that this bike will serve my purpose well, and you will be the first to know if I made a mistake.

Pictures to follow.

 
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 12, 2016, 08:50:16 am
Lekker man!!!

Gooi daai fotos
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: sidetrack on September 12, 2016, 09:08:53 am


I was lucky to get my hands on a virtually new BMW g450x. It has only 7 hours on the clock (290km) and is in perfect condition with a few extras. Beautiful machine.

I took the bike to Eddy2Race to check everything over and I am mightily impressed with his service and the fact that he can be objective despite being a Husqvarna man. Eddy confirmed the bike was in perfect mechanical condition.



  
I would hope so  :biggrin: Congrats good as new
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Buff on September 12, 2016, 09:41:21 am
Congrats, sounds like a new bike, shouldn't give you any hassles in the foreseeable future  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on September 12, 2016, 09:55:29 am
congratulations, i know what you paid - I think you got an excellent buy AND you really wanted this bike, so I do think it will serve you well!

Cheers
Chris & team
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 10:03:34 am
congratulations, i know what you paid - I think you got an excellent buy AND you really wanted this bike, so I do think it will serve you well!

Cheers
Chris & team

Thanks for all the help, advice and time Chris. I really appreciate.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 12, 2016, 10:05:39 am
Lekker man!!!

Gooi daai fotos

Ahem...

 :P
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Omninorm on September 12, 2016, 10:11:19 am
I'm jealous... I also want one to go next to the G650 XChallenge. :-/

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 12, 2016, 10:28:19 am
Like I said your best option is to buy the neatest low hour bike you can find for a bargain.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 11:03:04 am
Will post some decent pics later.

As I got it.......................
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 11:04:26 am
After getting it back from Eddy2Race
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 12, 2016, 11:18:28 am
Very nice!!!

Ballpark damage? $$$
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Omninorm on September 12, 2016, 11:20:18 am
Very nice! Congrats!
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 11:20:57 am
Very nice!!!

Ballpark damage? $$$

A little less than R40k
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 12, 2016, 11:22:29 am
Lekker man. It's brand new.

At least you didn't take the R30k-ish? knock.

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 11:56:22 am
Jip glad about that.

I do believe that it is a lot of bike for the money.

Hope to get some good fun and milage from it.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 12, 2016, 01:50:36 pm
Bliksem that bike was a steal.

Its still a beautiful machine - hope you get many awesome Km on it. :thumleft:  :drif:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: sidetrack on September 12, 2016, 02:38:21 pm
Now please go join Chris L and Big Dom on the 450X board  ;D
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 12, 2016, 03:33:34 pm
very nice
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 05:19:36 pm
 :ricky:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on September 12, 2016, 05:23:49 pm
Vurke lyk effe getwist vir my :peepwall: >:D ;)

Lekker speel KK. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Crossed-up on September 12, 2016, 05:28:35 pm
Congrats and all the best. It's so nice you probably won't want to scratch it up in the Parklands bush!
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 05:35:10 pm
Congrats and all the best. It's so nice you probably won't want to scratch it up in the Parklands bush!

Just said the same thing to my neighbor.

But that is what I bought it for. Once the first scar is on I'll feel better.

Can't wait to get back to the bush
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Bus on September 12, 2016, 05:37:10 pm
Also get some motard wheels

 >:D
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Noneking on September 12, 2016, 07:21:57 pm
Geluk Charl! Nuuskierig om te hoor hoe jy met hom regkom...... :3some:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 12, 2016, 07:26:44 pm
Congratulations KarooKid!!

It is a very nice specimen indeed.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Geel Kat on September 12, 2016, 08:12:28 pm
Looks like a really great buy  :thumleft:

See you in the quarry soon.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 12, 2016, 09:02:38 pm
Thanks all.

Can't wait to go ride it, but for my sins I have to take the wife away on a romantic weekend.

So the quarry will have to wait till next weekend.

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Geel Kat on September 12, 2016, 09:10:24 pm
Thanks all.

Can't wait to go ride it, but for my sins I have to take the wife away on a romantic weekend.

So the quarry will have to wait till next weekend.



 :thumleft: it will still be there by then.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: shark_za on September 12, 2016, 10:27:03 pm
Interesting topic; but I have a different mindset to what a "playbike" is.
In a controlled environment ridden by a good rider or by a beginner who does not stretch their limits; a BMW 450 is an OK choice.

I would much rather take a WR450, CRF450x, KLX450 or even RMX-450 over the BMW if you are doing more than dirt roads or tracks.
I would take a 250 4T over any 450 every day of the week for real off-road riding, and if I wanted the speed and power it would be from a 300 2T.
If you are building a rally bike then go 450; but for almost every other off-road task they come in last place choice wise.

Now you have it and it seems you paid market value for it so should not lose too much. This is if you get the off-road bug proper and realize the 450 BMW is not suitable and sell it for something more appropriate.



Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Noneking on September 13, 2016, 07:39:37 am
Thanks all.

Can't wait to go ride it, but for my sins I have to take the wife away on a romantic weekend.

So the quarry will have to wait till next weekend.
Jy kom lig daarvan af! My glipsies het my gewoonlik in baie meer moeilikheid
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 13, 2016, 09:53:53 am
Thanks all.

Can't wait to go ride it, but for my sins I have to take the wife away on a romantic weekend.

So the quarry will have to wait till next weekend.
Jy kom lig daarvan af! My glipsies het my gewoonlik in baie meer moeilikheid

Ja maar jou glipsies is seker baie groter............. of duurder.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Geel Kat on September 13, 2016, 09:58:58 am

Can't wait to go ride it, but for my sins I have to take the wife away on a romantic weekend.


My answer to this would be a quarry braai, bring the wife and buy flowers on the way...
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: teebag on September 13, 2016, 10:36:35 am
Did E2R do that sticker kit - bike looks fantastic
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 13, 2016, 01:40:48 pm
Did E2R do that sticker kit - bike looks fantastic

No, the Sticker kit came with the bike. E2R just fitted it.
Unfortunately it's been laying for a few years so it is not sticking too well.

E2R will help me with a new set though. Thinking about whether to stick to this scheme or the BMW Racing one.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 13, 2016, 02:27:43 pm
Did E2R do that sticker kit - bike looks fantastic

No, the Sticker kit came with the bike. E2R just fitted it.
Unfortunately it's been laying for a few years so it is not sticking too well.

E2R will help me with a new set though. Thinking about whether to stick to this scheme or the BMW Racing one.

A couple of crashes in the quarry and the sticker kit is poked anyway so don't stress about it.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 13, 2016, 02:41:52 pm
Did E2R do that sticker kit - bike looks fantastic

No, the Sticker kit came with the bike. E2R just fitted it.
Unfortunately it's been laying for a few years so it is not sticking too well.

E2R will help me with a new set though. Thinking about whether to stick to this scheme or the BMW Racing one.

A couple of crashes in the quarry and the sticker kit is poked anyway so don't stress about it.

Also true, but the plain white just looks so bland.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 13, 2016, 03:09:23 pm
Did E2R do that sticker kit - bike looks fantastic

No, the Sticker kit came with the bike. E2R just fitted it.
Unfortunately it's been laying for a few years so it is not sticking too well.

E2R will help me with a new set though. Thinking about whether to stick to this scheme or the BMW Racing one.

BMW and Racing should not be used in the same sentence. :eek7: But do add some blue for reliability. :3some:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 13, 2016, 03:20:57 pm
Did E2R do that sticker kit - bike looks fantastic

No, the Sticker kit came with the bike. E2R just fitted it.
Unfortunately it's been laying for a few years so it is not sticking too well.

E2R will help me with a new set though. Thinking about whether to stick to this scheme or the BMW Racing one.

BMW and Racing should not be used in the same sentence. :eek7: But do add some blue for reliability. :3some:

Yes sir. Sorry Sir
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Omninorm on September 13, 2016, 03:22:32 pm

BMW and Racing should not be used in the same sentence. :eek7: But do add some blue for reliability. :3some:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3414/4630706053_15ac55482f_z.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V85U9P-_Jc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V85U9P-_Jc)

Yeah, Andreas Lichtenberger won his first ever rally and the Red Bull Romaniacs on a g450x cause it was shit.   :ricky:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 13, 2016, 05:38:45 pm
Look, Andreas did not win his races on the Chinese BMW you can buy, just like the Dakar does not get won on the 450 standing at KTM Cape Town.

Is this a shock to you?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 13, 2016, 07:00:47 pm
We already went through this. ;D

This thread is actually about Karookid and his bike not about BMW and racing breed. Well we did talk about that a while back but I think it was all civil.  :snorting:

If you like I will split off the relevant comments in a new topic all on its own.  :thumleft:

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 13, 2016, 07:39:41 pm
We already went through this. ;D

This thread is actually about Karookid and his bike not about BMW and racing breed. Well we did talk about that a while back but I think it was all civil.  :snorting:

If you like I will split off the relevant comments in a new topic all on its own.  :thumleft:



No need. I am sure Omninorm won't be too upset with me over this. And I honestly wish Karookid lots of pleasurable riding on his new bike. Might even meet him at Quarry.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 13, 2016, 07:51:12 pm
I have absolutely no problem with the comments and statements.

I respect and appreciate all opinions and I am happy with my decision. It is me who must live with it.

Dan I would love to ride with you at the Quarry.

I am pretty sure if you give me the latest WR 450 and put (force) Dan onto my BMW he would still beat me over any terrain. It's more about skill and experience than the bike.

Let's ride!!
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: shark_za on September 13, 2016, 08:09:05 pm
Look, Andreas did not win his races on the Chinese BMW you can buy, just like the Dakar does not get won on the 450 standing at KTM Cape Town.

Is this a shock to you?
Not so true. The racebike that Letti and Jade Gutzeit used was very close to factory standard; only the suspension was tuned.  Dakar is a different beast alltogether.

Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: LanC on September 13, 2016, 11:19:57 pm
Congrats on the new wheels KarooKid. I acquired one in Feb this year. You get a lot of bike for you $$$ with the G450X. I think it does the job well enough for the average rider who does not want to race. There is no way I'm good enough to tell the difference it and the WR but it's good to go with what you felt your heart says. I had a weird hot starting issue for last few months but finally solved it by replacing a worn decompression lever for R220. I got ktm 200 two months back to see what the 2stroke fuss is all about. Told myself I will sell the one I'm riding the least in six months time. Problem is both currently put a huge grin on my face though I'm leaning more towards the keeping the 200. I rode 120km loop through parklands to atlantis and down to the beach on Sunday then ran out of fuel 500m from home.

(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/oclance/Biking/Quarry/20160911_114043A_zps6dkq8j5t.jpg)
(http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/oclance/Biking/Quarry/20160911_101101A_zpsz6kx6r2w.jpg)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 14, 2016, 06:44:45 am
Nice Lance. Great pictures

Must be hard having so many choices  :)

These bikes are just so much fun in the sand.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Rough Rider on September 15, 2016, 09:39:31 am
Look, Andreas did not win his races on the Chinese BMW you can buy, just like the Dakar does not get won on the 450 standing at KTM Cape Town.

Is this a shock to you?
Not so true. The racebike that Letti and Jade Gutzeit used was very close to factory standard; only the suspension was tuned.  Dakar is a different beast alltogether.



And David Knight gave his factory one back and completed the season on a private Klx450. To give up a factory ride halfway through the season is very indicitive. He stated the bike was a heap of shite and he could not ride it.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 15, 2016, 10:35:24 am
Look, Andreas did not win his races on the Chinese BMW you can buy, just like the Dakar does not get won on the 450 standing at KTM Cape Town.

Is this a shock to you?
Not so true. The racebike that Letti and Jade Gutzeit used was very close to factory standard; only the suspension was tuned.  Dakar is a different beast alltogether.



And David Knight gave his factory one back and completed the season on a private Klx450. To give up a factory ride halfway through the season is very indicitive. He stated the bike was a heap of shite and he could not ride it.


The thread heading asks for a choice between the WR450 and the G450X. KarooKid has chosen the BMW and I wish him all happiness with this ride.
I must however point out that the WR is 10x the bike the "BMW" is, as not doing so would be an injustice towards the toughest, most reliable 4stroke
offroads, the YZ/WR series, ever, ever built.
And for the R40 000 asking price, a very good WR could have been had.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 15, 2016, 12:14:06 pm
Look, Andreas did not win his races on the Chinese BMW you can buy, just like the Dakar does not get won on the 450 standing at KTM Cape Town.

Is this a shock to you?
Not so true. The racebike that Letti and Jade Gutzeit used was very close to factory standard; only the suspension was tuned.  Dakar is a different beast alltogether.



And David Knight gave his factory one back and completed the season on a private Klx450. To give up a factory ride halfway through the season is very indicitive. He stated the bike was a heap of shite and he could not ride it.


The thread heading asks for a choice between the WR450 and the G450X. KarooKid has chosen the BMW and I wish him all happiness with this ride.
I must however point out that the WR is 10x the bike the "BMW" is, as not doing so would be an injustice towards the toughest, most reliable 4stroke
offroads, the YZ/WR series, ever, ever built.
And for the R40 000 asking price, a very good WR could have been had.

 :thumleft:  :thumleft:

Agreed Dan. In terms of bike the WR might have been the better option, but like I said - I am happy with my choice and I'll be the first to admit if I made a mistake or if it lets me down.

I am pretty sure though that I'll get the same amount of joy and fun from both.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: MiniDan on September 15, 2016, 12:50:20 pm
Look, Andreas did not win his races on the Chinese BMW you can buy, just like the Dakar does not get won on the 450 standing at KTM Cape Town.

Is this a shock to you?
Not so true. The racebike that Letti and Jade Gutzeit used was very close to factory standard; only the suspension was tuned.  Dakar is a different beast alltogether.



And David Knight gave his factory one back and completed the season on a private Klx450. To give up a factory ride halfway through the season is very indicitive. He stated the bike was a heap of shite and he could not ride it.


The thread heading asks for a choice between the WR450 and the G450X. KarooKid has chosen the BMW and I wish him all happiness with this ride.
I must however point out that the WR is 10x the bike the "BMW" is, as not doing so would be an injustice towards the toughest, most reliable 4stroke
offroads, the YZ/WR series, ever, ever built.
And for the R40 000 asking price, a very good WR could have been had.

 :thumleft:  :thumleft:

Agreed Dan. In terms of bike the WR might have been the better option, but like I said - I am happy with my choice and I'll be the first to admit if I made a mistake or if it lets me down.

I am pretty sure though that I'll get the same amount of joy and fun from both.

Never will there be a situation where everyone backs your decision, but you have made it, so now go and enjoy it.





(Until it starts giving you issues)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 24, 2016, 05:30:18 pm
Did my first proper ride today.

Love it!!
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Crossed-up on September 24, 2016, 06:24:26 pm
It behaved faultlessly! All the best for many more miles.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Omninorm on September 28, 2016, 03:33:23 pm
Awesome!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on September 28, 2016, 03:52:26 pm
 :thumleft:

but of course, I KNEW you would enjoy... 'the little bike, that could..." !  ;)
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on September 29, 2016, 08:05:15 am
:thumleft:

but of course, I KNEW you would enjoy... 'the little bike, that could..." !  ;)


Thanks Chris

All the mods have been done. Will pop in on Saturday to bring back the step drill bit.

Only waiting on the new decals and then it is 100% sorted.

Looking forward to some riding on the weekend.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on October 04, 2016, 04:33:06 pm
dude, when I saw this bike at the quarry I could see why you bought it.. very lekker scoot.
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 04, 2016, 04:43:26 pm
:thumleft:

but of course, I KNEW you would enjoy... 'the little bike, that could..." !  ;)


Thanks Chris

All the mods have been done. Will pop in on Saturday to bring back the step drill bit.

Only waiting on the new decals and then it is 100% sorted.

Looking forward to some riding on the weekend.

You only just got that BMW and already it needs working on with a stepped drill. What's wrong?? :pot:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on October 05, 2016, 07:46:50 am
 ;) Dan NEVER misses an opportunity to have a 'smile' at BMW's expense....

long ago, it MAY have irked me, now it makes ME smile!  ;D

Dan, that was a good chuckle, Wife asked me why I was laughing so hard; difficult to explain to her the  "You only just got that BMW and already it needs working on with a stepped drill. What's wrong??" chirp!

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on October 06, 2016, 08:39:35 pm
dude, when I saw this bike at the quarry I could see why you bought it.. very lekker scoot.

Thanks Fuzzy.

I really love the bike. New stickers arrived. Busy fitting them but ran out of beer.

Pictures to follow......
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: JacoM on October 06, 2016, 10:56:31 pm
Charl, bel my as jy reg is vir Maccaser.
groete
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on October 07, 2016, 06:40:53 am
Charl, bel my as jy reg is vir Maccaser.
groete


Dit sal lekker wees Jaco. Wanneer ry julle?
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: billy-joe on October 08, 2016, 01:05:06 pm
congrats. scoot looks good!  maybe i'll join you guys at Macassar?  before i sell this girl..
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 08, 2016, 07:08:20 pm
;) Dan NEVER misses an opportunity to have a 'smile' at BMW's expense....

long ago, it MAY have irked me, now it makes ME smile!  ;D

Dan, that was a good chuckle, Wife asked me why I was laughing so hard; difficult to explain to her the  "You only just got that BMW and already it needs working on with a stepped drill. What's wrong??" chirp!

 :thumleft:

There are quite a few BMW riders that smile at my chirps, then there are the "traditionalists"......... :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: KarooKid on October 09, 2016, 07:27:49 am
 :ricky:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 09, 2016, 07:30:05 am
That does really look good Karookid!
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: Buff on October 09, 2016, 08:34:57 am
Stunning, amazing what a decent sticker kit can do for a bike  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Yamaha WR450 or BMW G450X??
Post by: teebag on October 10, 2016, 08:10:07 am
 O0