Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Riding: Plan, Report and Racing => Racing Section => Topic started by: TheBear on December 06, 2016, 12:19:24 pm

Title: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: TheBear on December 06, 2016, 12:19:24 pm
Instead of the grid being the same (as per qualification) for both races it will change from Philip Island in February 2017.

Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

Sounds complex, but should make Race 2 a very exciting race.


Also:

- Added will be Supersport 300 class.
- Supersport 600 will now have flag to flag races, i.e. tire changes depending on weather.  Bikes may be modified to facilitate fast wheel changes, similar to SBK.

Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: iamgigglz on December 06, 2016, 02:21:48 pm
I'm wondering about this 300 class - you have KTM's 373cc single RC390, Yamaha's 321cc twin R3 and Honda came a long with the amazeballs CBR250RR....250cc. Hopefully they bore it out a bit for 2017.
It's such a mish-mash of bikes I'm interested to see how they keep it competitive.
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: PierreO on December 06, 2016, 02:37:25 pm
There will be a lot of 300cc bikes hitting the showroom next year according to the bunch on The Bike show . So we could see a few manufacturers in that class .
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Sithe on December 06, 2016, 03:30:19 pm
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Amsterdam on December 06, 2016, 03:36:16 pm
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?

Those are the top 3 finishers of race 1.  A most stupid rule this.  Begins to sound like kindergarten where everyone is a winner.  If you want to start from the front than you must be fast.  Now it is that if you were fast in qualifying and win the race you must start from 9th. 
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: TheBear on December 06, 2016, 05:36:27 pm
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?

Those are the top 3 finishers of race 1.  A most stupid rule this.  Begins to sound like kindergarten where everyone is a winner.  If you want to start from the front than you must be fast.  Now it is that if you were fast in qualifying and win the race you must start from 9th.

Not an ideal solution, but the current system is not so great either.  Qualify fastest.  Fall off and do not complete race 1, still start pole for race 2.  I would have prefered race 1 start as qualified.  Race 2 start as finished race 1.
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Warren Ellwood on December 06, 2016, 05:55:51 pm
A simple change would have better indeed.

Also read somewhere they are considering doing away with the Supersport Class as sales of Supersport bikes have plummeted worldwide.

In its place would be a naked bike class as those sales are sky rocketing. Back to the days of old.

Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Cracker on December 06, 2016, 05:58:01 pm
Race 1:  Grid according to super pole qualifying.

Race 2: 

- Top three riders move back from front row to row three and 1st and 3rd reverse their positions..
- Riders who finished in 4th, 5th and 6th will be promoted to the front row.
- Riders who finished in 7th, 8th and 9th will start from row 2.

What top three riders, race 1 top three or qualifying top 3 ?

Those are the top 3 finishers of race 1.  A most stupid rule this.  Begins to sound like kindergarten where everyone is a winner.  If you want to start from the front than you must be fast.  Now it is that if you were fast in qualifying and win the race you must start from 9th.

Not an ideal solution, but the current system is not so great either.  Qualify fastest.  Fall off and do not complete race 1, still start pole for race 2.  I would have prefered race 1 start as qualified.  Race 2 start as finished race 1.

Yep, that makes a whole lotta sense to me. I always wondered why they never did this anyway.

This new one seems a bit doff to me. We're gonna see a few overtakes in the first few laps of race 2, then back to the normal procession.

They still doing the sat/sun thing?

Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Cracker on December 06, 2016, 06:00:56 pm
What's needed really, is for the others to make bikes as fast as the kawasakis.
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: IceCreamMan on December 06, 2016, 06:17:31 pm
Artificially create races never works.
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Amsterdam on December 06, 2016, 06:21:09 pm

Not an ideal solution, but the current system is not so great either.  Qualify fastest.  Fall off and do not complete race 1, still start pole for race 2.  I would have prefered race 1 start as qualified.  Race 2 start as finished race 1.

That would work too and even fairer actually.  If you are good on the day you get rewarded.  We used to have that rule at Killarney for years until it was changed in the not too distant past (probably same for all circuit bike racing in SA)
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: TheBear on December 06, 2016, 06:35:23 pm
What's needed really, is for the others to make bikes as fast as the kawasakis.

Like Ducati did?   :peepwall:

It could also work if all Kawasakis were all made to be as fast as the two factory Kawasakis.  For every race won by a Kawa, there is a race lost by a Kawa.
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Cracker on December 06, 2016, 07:15:10 pm
You know what I mean ... ::)
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Kawasefi on December 06, 2016, 07:53:15 pm
That's just stupid. If manufacturers other than Kawasaki and Ducati actually put in some effort by having a factory team then this wouldn't be necessary. Now they just punish the teams who are fully committed, let's see how that works out for them in the long run.  :patch:
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Sithe on December 06, 2016, 08:12:16 pm
The problems with wsbk were largely self made.

For a long time the rules were designed for Ducati to dominate and dominate they did. The Japs then lost interest. Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha pulled both sbk and supersport involvement from a factory perspective completely choosing instead to invest in their motogp bikes.

Kawasaki developed their a bike for motogp but realising it was not fast enough, they pulled out of motogp and took the bike to sbk where they now dominate the series in the absence of the other Japs.

Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: TheBear on December 06, 2016, 08:32:31 pm
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

You know what I mean ... ::)

Of course I do.   :thumleft: 
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Sithe on December 06, 2016, 10:47:40 pm
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Kawasefi on December 07, 2016, 08:53:01 am
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk

So you're saying the 800cc ZxRR MotoGP prototype of 2008 resurfaced as the 2011 Zx10R?
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Sithe on December 07, 2016, 10:40:46 am
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk

So you're saying the 800cc ZxRR MotoGP prototype of 2008 resurfaced as the 2011 Zx10R?
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: TheBear on December 08, 2016, 09:14:35 am
I am not sure that the Kawasaki was developed for MotoGP.  Kawasaki is just putting all their money and effort into the WSBK factory team.

Yes it was. From 2002 to 2009 Kawasaki was involved  in motogp. They were never able to compete there.

Motogp bikes had started using electronics. Kawasaki soon abandoned their motogp project and introduced a wsbk bike full of electronics. Basically they took their motogp bike and homologated it for wsbk

That would be against WSBK rules as I understand it.  The WSBK bike must be a ZX10R and every go fast part on it available, over the counter to buyers like you and I.  They had to homologate that MotoGP bike as the ZX10R for sale to all, before they could use it in WSBK. 
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Sithe on December 08, 2016, 11:38:31 am
The electronics package was developed in motogp. Kawasaki was the first to introduce it on the superbike, at the same time that they left motogp.

You and I wouldn't be able to buy the bits and pieces available to the factory teams. The wsbk bike has close to 30 sensors for the electronics package to work optimally. Not a chance Kawasaki would give you all the secrete bits they have on that bike.
Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: TheBear on December 08, 2016, 05:30:13 pm
The electronics package was developed in motogp. Kawasaki was the first to introduce it on the superbike, at the same time that they left motogp.

You and I wouldn't be able to buy the bits and pieces available to the factory teams. The wsbk bike has close to 30 sensors for the electronics package to work optimally. Not a chance Kawasaki would give you all the secrete bits they have on that bike.

No argument on the electronics, but there is a vast difference between passing over the electronics, or some of the electronics and homologating the whole MotoGP bike as a superbike.  WSBK rules since about start 2015, or 2014  states all parts usedon a WSBK bike must be available to buyers. 

Anyway, I think what is important is that Kawasaki, once they decided to pour all their resources into the development of their WSBK team, started ruling the roost. 

Title: Re: WSBK: Interesting rule change for 2017
Post by: Serfie on December 26, 2016, 05:24:23 pm
This all very interesting BUT shouldn't there be a separate board for WSB 2017, like there was for 2016, but then it disappeared.  ???

Mods...why did you guys take it off?...too little contribution?...that's probably due to the dominance of the Kawa's, but still...it is part of the greater motorcycling fraternity and should have a board of it's own, irrespective of whether there is less contributions compared to MOTOGP... or am I missing something here?  :sip: