Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => Husqvarna => Topic started by: Straatkat on April 06, 2017, 09:45:16 am

Title: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Straatkat on April 06, 2017, 09:45:16 am
Xpat and myself were on our way to a sand riding adventure of a lifetime, the sandy dunes of Southern Bots, when about 50km before Bray my engine seized.
I was just starting to enjoy those sandy roads, bombing along at 100+ when my back wheel just locked. Luckily I was fast on the clutch and saved a bad fall.
First thing to check was oil level, which seemed within limits, and coolant was full too. What gives? We managed to get a nearby farmer to collect me and the bike on his bakkie and they put us up for the night. As we offloaded the bike I spotted some oil running out of the bashplate. Then all kinds of demons run through my brain, did I forget to tighten the sump plug when changing oil? Has the engine developed a crack? Where does the oil come from? Im my mind, if all fluid levels are fine how can the engine seize?
Anyway got my wife to recover me the following day, and we got home at 1am. What an unneccesary ordeal. Back home I stripped the Hyde bashplate off and saw what looked like the oil running out between the engine casings??? Both sump plugs were still in play and I could not see any cracks..... Tito volunteered to take the engine apart and see what can be done, so tomorrow I will take the bike to him. I can't believe my trusty Husky let me down like this, on day one of a two week adventure! I did notice the fuel consumption was very high, I only got 150km on a tank, so I was only getting around 12km/l. Normally it's more like 18.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Archangel on April 06, 2017, 09:48:06 am
And so the love hate relationship goes...  ::)

Sterkte! I hope you find the issue and that repairs don't cost you an arm and a leg.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on April 06, 2017, 09:56:59 am
Bad luck!!

and Xpat did he go on?
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Slaaiblaar on April 06, 2017, 10:01:32 am
Nie nice nie, en hier sit ek al die laaste 2 maande en hou die internet dop vir een wat te koop is........

Hoop hy kan nice gefix word.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: exkdx on April 06, 2017, 11:12:34 am
Eish - wrong time for any bike to let you down :(
Mine have done about 80,000km with no problems to date but I am getting a bit apprehensive to attempt a long trip...

Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Kykdaar on April 06, 2017, 12:29:44 pm
Sorry to hear. Would be very interested to hear what was the cause.

I have a complete spare engine (no papers) but you can canabilse it to repair yours if need be. If you need help just shout - I know the inside of that motor pretty well by now.

The price is here http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=208239.0  :biggrin:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 06, 2017, 02:13:48 pm
Jip Xpat continued on his merry way, he is no stranger to solo trips, I was just really looking forward going with him, he is so experienced with such things and a wealth of information on these trips on what to do and what not to, he has seen it all. I would also have felt a lot better being there with him for some support, two riders are a whole lot better than going it alone. Will take the bike to Tito tomorrow, he knows his way around engines. I did drown it in Makgadigadi last year, it could have caused some damage to the internals that only manifested itself now. Only opening the motor will tell. Quite honestly this is the first  610 motor that I know of that seized, normally they are super reliable. To top it all I spent almost the entire February going over everything and changing all the bearings in the suspension and wheels, even laced up a new rim on the back because mine was cracked at the weld... and a whole host of other things. Bummer of note!
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: ClimbingTurtle on April 06, 2017, 02:37:30 pm
I am sorry to read of this misfortune - hope its not too terminally expensive - looking forward to your NEXT RR...  :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Scrat on April 06, 2017, 03:10:39 pm
Aaai man!! DIs nie mooi nie!!

Kani glo dat n 610 jou laat gaan staan het nie!!  ???

Jy moet seblief deel wat jy kry met die autopsie  :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: chopperpilot on April 06, 2017, 07:02:39 pm
Baie jammer om te hoor Straatkat!

Ek wag in spanning om te verneem wat fout gegaan het.

Vertrou jy kan die Husky gou herstel...Swaziland wag vir ons!


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Kykdaar on April 06, 2017, 07:17:57 pm
The crank probably seized
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 06, 2017, 09:04:35 pm
The only thing I did to the motor was change the oil, with full synthetic Castrol Edge Sport 10W60. Been running this oil for the past 2000km, before that I only used Motul 300V.
The autopsy will reveal all. Directly after the incident the oil level was still fine, so the motor had all the oil it needed. Only started pissing out afterwards. Did the seizing force the casings apart? If the crank suddenly stops there are forces at play that don't exist when the motor runs normally......We wait to see with abated breath.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 06, 2017, 10:03:24 pm
I also got it as one of the most reliable thumpers. You probably got water damage on the 'drowning' incident....ai man
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: sidetrack on April 07, 2017, 12:53:10 pm
Not good keep us posted  :P
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: m0lt3n on April 07, 2017, 02:37:13 pm
Good luck with the repair!
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 07, 2017, 06:49:40 pm
Well Tito and myself stripped the motor today, the bore is perfect, the big end loose, but the crank is solid! What amazes me is that the main bearings are roller/ball bearings, how can they seize? One other worrying thing was that there was no oil in the oil pump......took off the cover and literally a few drops came out. I had to leave before Tito got to split the casings, so the real reason for the seize will be revealed soon....
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 07, 2017, 07:00:43 pm
Well Tito and myself stripped the motor today, the bore is perfect, the big end loose, but the crank is solid! What amazes me is that the main bearings are roller/ball bearings, how can they seize? One other worrying thing was that there was no oil in the oil pump......took off the cover and literally a few drops came out. I had to leave before Tito got to split the casings, so the real reason for the seize will be revealed soon....

Did not even know that the main bearings are roller, and yes it does not make sense but maybe your oilpump pickup blocked.....however you should know soon when Tito is done taking it apart  :-\
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: chopperpilot on April 07, 2017, 07:20:20 pm
Well Tito and myself stripped the motor today, the bore is perfect, the big end loose, but the crank is solid! What amazes me is that the main bearings are roller/ball bearings, how can they seize? One other worrying thing was that there was no oil in the oil pump......took off the cover and literally a few drops came out. I had to leave before Tito got to split the casings, so the real reason for the seize will be revealed soon....
Oil pump drive shaft failure maybe?


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Kykdaar on April 07, 2017, 09:45:57 pm
Driven off the crank shaft end spline.

They are easily damaged especially when re-fitting the side cover and forcing it.

Mine looked like this
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: BiG DoM on April 07, 2017, 10:22:01 pm
A real bummer, sorry to hear. Really the first one I have heard of here or anywhere that has seized solid. My guess is oil pump failure. Did you check the mesh bag filters with the oil change? There are also cases of the end failing and being jettisoned into the engine .  :-\
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: BOER! on April 08, 2017, 02:11:27 am
Sub
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: chopperpilot on April 11, 2017, 05:55:20 pm
Any further news on the cause Bertie?


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 11, 2017, 10:57:11 pm
I have to get some special tools, pullers etc from Kykdaar who agreed to lend them to me and get them to Tito so we can get the motor stripped without damaging anything.
So we wait for now.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: chopperpilot on April 14, 2017, 09:04:33 am
Hoping for a positive, and affordable outcome.


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 25, 2017, 11:58:42 pm
So some feedback, Tito stripped my engine and the news is not good.
A thrust washer on the magneto side of the crank broke a piece off and damaged the alternator, which has to be replaced. The parts manual shows it is only available as a single unit. Waiting on Kerry from Bikers Warehouse for prices on this and a bunch of other seals, gaskets and stuff.
This to a degree is the good news, as the crankcasings are warped as well. When Paul was working on stripping the motor, the crank came loose and the bearings are as smooth as you would want them to be....go figure! Anyways when the crank stopped suddenly it pushed the casings apart, so it looks like they are also to be replaced.
In lieu of all the damage it would probably be better to source a complete engine or even a complete bike instead of overcapitalizing on the broken motor.
It is almost a given that the prices of the spares needed to fix my beloved 610 would exceed it's value, so I am officially in the market for an engine or complete bike if anyone here knows of something.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: BiG DoM on April 26, 2017, 12:32:32 am
 :-\  Sorry news. It does sound like a donor engine may be the best way to go for parts. Motorcycle Graveyard in Knysna had a SM but think it was an older model, 2001 or thereabouts.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: DeepBass9 on April 26, 2017, 06:05:20 am
That's a bummer, sorry to hear.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Kykdaar on April 26, 2017, 07:50:35 am
I have got two cases for you.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: BiG DoM on April 26, 2017, 08:23:04 am
I have got two cases for you.

Well there you go - I am sure you will get the parts you need. Also look on e-Bay as I have bought parts there successfully and with zero import duty can still be reasonable. Just for noting Bikers Whorehouse took the better part of year to get parts for my 610   ::)
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: M3X3Z3 on April 26, 2017, 10:27:30 am
Hey Straatkat, sorry to hear man, but as they say Shit Happens !

Having read all your ride reports etc etc, my view is that the value of your 610 is not its resale value but its "value in use" to you.
Seeing that you get a lot of use out of your 610 and considering the kind of trips that you do, you will definitely get a lot mileage / benefit from the expensive repair particularly if you intend keeping the bike for a number of years.
So if you intend keeping the bike, I don't see it as over capitalising but as a necessary and unavoidable expense.

By repairing your bike you will end up with a 610 with a "newish" engine that is a known quantity to you.
By buying another 610 (not necessarily a known quantity to you.) you will still end up with a 610 with an "oldish" engine for a presumably a higher cost than that of repairing your current motor, unless of course you can get a good 610 for less than the cost of repairing the current motor.

Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 26, 2017, 02:54:04 pm
I am with the '3's man here - you are using your bike and not showcasing it, so if you can afford it invest and rebuild because you know what you have and it will serve you well for years to come!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: JesseH on April 26, 2017, 08:48:55 pm
Holy Moly! Thats a super bummer man.

I have always had a mental block against Castrol oil... Do you know the reason for the failure? Is it the thrust washer itself?
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: chopperpilot on April 26, 2017, 11:28:33 pm
Midnight spares should be cheap....you know the adresses! The guy in Nelspruit has a shotgun though!

Hope you find an affordable solution Bertie!


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 26, 2017, 11:42:42 pm
Just got the quote from Bikers Warehouse, just over R7k for the spares (including the alternator and output shaft that was worn) seems very reasonable and with the cases from Kykdaar it looks like Paul (Tito) will have everything he needs to start rebuilding once I bring all the ends together. Still looking for a left radiator as well if anyone has a lead on one.
The comments so far is absolutely spot on, I need to fix my bike and use it, it is not a showpiece, I ride it to faraway and exciting places!
And to be fair, it has 25 000 very hard kms on it, I always ride it like I stole it, full taps everywhere. One thing is for sure I am firmly back on Motul 300V oil, even though I don't know if a washer breaking can be laid at the door of  synthetic Castrol.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 27, 2017, 01:25:24 am
Some of the mayhem. Damaged alternator, broken thrust washer and some casing debris on crank .
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Welsh on April 27, 2017, 05:55:14 am
Straatkat, I don't believe that is an oil based failure, an original material/ manufacturing defect in my view.  8) :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: chopperpilot on April 27, 2017, 06:09:24 am
Just got the quote from Bikers Warehouse, just over R7k for the spares (including the alternator and output shaft that was worn) seems very reasonable and with the cases from Kykdaar it looks like Paul (Tito) will have everything he needs to start rebuilding once I bring all the ends together. Still looking for a left radiator as well if anyone has a lead on one.
The comments so far is absolutely spot on, I need to fix my bike and use it, it is not a showpiece, I ride it to faraway and exciting places!
And to be fair, it has 25 000 very hard kms on it, I always ride it like I stole it, full taps everywhere. One thing is for sure I am firmly back on Motul 300V oil, even though I don't know if a washer breaking can be laid at the door of  synthetic Castrol.
This is excellent news!

Whats wrong with the radiator? Can it not be repaired? There used to be adds in the various bike mags of companies doing it?

Or check with the Foz guys on rad repairs.

The motorcycle graveyard in Knysna?

Does Scrat not perhaps have one for you!


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: BiG DoM on April 27, 2017, 08:50:33 am
That bike in Knysna at the Graveyard had radiators. What is wrong with yours? I picked up some nice rad braces second hand - maybe worth thinking about. That washer failure does look like metal fatigue or something - strange. What is the damage to alternator? I have used Castrol in many many bikes over decades including my sons racing bikes (was Castrol sponsored) without issue. Sure you can drop bigger money on Motul, Motorex and Ligui Moly - not convinced that there is such a major difference if you change regularly. That said just put Liqui Moly in my Foz  ::)
 
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 27, 2017, 09:13:55 am
BD, Welsh, it is not completely clear what caused the motor to seize, that big part that broke off the washer was responsible for the alternator damage, but there are still pieces missing, they could have migrated to the inside of the casing through the reed valve thingy and caused the bearing to seize. I would like to cut the bearings open with a grinder and inspect them closely. What caused the washer to break like that is a mystery, Paul has not seen anything like that in his nearly 40 years being a motorcycle mechanic.
But I agree, definitely not a oil issue. Just after the bike seized  Xpat and myself immediately checked the oil and the level was correct, the oil only started leaking out afterwards because the seize bulged the casings outward and opened a gap between them for the oil to escape. That is a heavy crank and for it to stop suddenly releases all kinds of forces that the motor casings are not designed to absorb. 

As for the radiator, it is unrelated, it got bent in a stoopid accident when I was going to park my bike and it slipped on some sand and slid in under my car. TK lent me his radiator for the trip, which I returned already, so mine is still fubar. Will try the options mentioned, thanks.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: M3X3Z3 on April 27, 2017, 11:00:28 am
This is not the first thread on the www that I have read about TE engines being damaged due to busted washers.

If it was me, I would definitely replace the relevant washers with washers machined from the correct grade of metal as opposed to using the stock Husqvarna washers.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 27, 2017, 12:32:33 pm
I am going to do a search for 610 motors failing immediately and see what the prevalent reasons are....taking cognoscence of Husqvarna's reputation with all things washer related...clutch washers spring to mind!
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Welsh on April 27, 2017, 01:10:07 pm
A Hugely not typical failure of a washer, I would always expect a radial failure, that failure screams of a rolled in linear fault in the input material.  8)
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: BiG DoM on April 27, 2017, 01:11:44 pm
I am going to do a search for 610 motors failing immediately and see what the prevalent reasons are....taking cognoscence of Husqvarna's reputation with all things washer related...clutch washers spring to mind!

 :lol8:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Kykdaar on April 27, 2017, 05:14:38 pm
Bertie, you going to rebuild / re-balance the crank?
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 27, 2017, 10:31:03 pm
Andre, not sure what Paul wants to do, he says the big end bearing feels smooth, unless the crank moved where it was pressed together? Is that even possible? If one bearing seizes and the other is turning the crank will be stopped from one end all of a sudden.....guess it could move, unless it has a key or something that locate it.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Kykdaar on April 28, 2017, 06:56:11 am
Andre, not sure what Paul wants to do, he says the big end bearing feels smooth, unless the crank moved where it was pressed together? Is that even possible? If one bearing seizes and the other is turning the crank will be stopped from one end all of a sudden.....guess it could move, unless it has a key or something that locate it.

I am sure that Paul knows his stuff, but while the crank is out and considering that there was enough forces at play to buckle the casings, I would at the very least check whether the crank is still balanced.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on April 28, 2017, 07:45:48 am
I totally agree. Will do.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Straatkat on May 26, 2017, 11:02:25 pm
My Husky is fixed!!! Paul will deliver it tomorrow, he says it runs beautifully. I really missed that bike during the 2 months it was out of commission.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: chopperpilot on May 27, 2017, 03:29:02 am
My Husky is fixed!!! Paul will deliver it tomorrow, he says it runs beautifully. I really missed that bike during the 2 months it was out of commission.
Baie bly om te hoor!


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down!
Post by: Welsh on May 27, 2017, 06:35:42 am
My Husky is fixed!!! Paul will deliver it tomorrow, he says it runs beautifully. I really missed that bike during the 2 months it was out of commission.
Cool, good to see you at the show yesterday, enjoy it.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Kykdaar on May 27, 2017, 07:15:41 am
Excellent news :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: BiG DoM on May 27, 2017, 08:16:43 am
Great news, enjoy!

Please give us a brief summary of what was done and what and where parts were sourced.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: chopperpilot on May 27, 2017, 08:46:08 am
Straatkat

Tony wants to either go to Swazi, or Magoebaskloof/Tzaneen/Magalametsi, once you're back from your trip!


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Straatkat on May 27, 2017, 10:57:30 am
Chopper, sounds like a plan, Magoebaskloof would be nice, never ridden there before. The calling is getting louder!
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Renrew on May 27, 2017, 11:46:07 am
As julle plek het vir n bejaarde tannie om saam Tzaneen/Magoebaskloof toe te kom, laat weet my! Ek is al lankal lus vir daai area :ricky:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Straatkat on May 27, 2017, 02:48:34 pm
Yeah, just got my Cricket back. Paul and Arno just delivered my bike, it sounds awesome and goes like the clappers!
Me, Paul and Arno. (bottom pic)
So happy having my bike back.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Straatkat on May 28, 2017, 01:26:36 pm
To sum it all up, the thrust washer broke and the piece that came off destroyed the alternator, and pieces coming off that went through into the main crankcase and caused the main roller bearing to seize, which in turn bulged the casings. I got some engine casings from Kykdaar, and all the other bits and bobs including the new alternator from Kerry at Bikers Warehouse, took about 2 weeks. Good service from them. A big thank you for Kykdaar, he lent me the special tools needed to remove the flywheel from the crank, and of course the hero is Tito (Paul Fawkes, from Roto Rookies fame) who did all the work and breathed his expertise all over my beloved Cricket! He also spotted that my output shaft was quite worn, so while the motor was apart, he also changed that out. While in there we also did the timing chain. That is the difference when someone works on your bike that wants to do the best job possible and goes the extra mile. Thanks a stack Paul!
Also thanks to Scrat for selling me his spare radiator, appreciate it! Cannot wait for the next trip so that I can make some more memories.
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Kykdaar on May 28, 2017, 06:41:52 pm
Was good to see that bike ripping up the lawn today :biggrin:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: Tito on May 28, 2017, 08:10:25 pm
Thanks so much for the kind words Bertie and for trusting me with your beloved Husky .
Wishing you many more Hooligan Kms on it ....
Cheers my bud ... :ricky: :ricky:
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: BiG DoM on May 28, 2017, 08:23:32 pm
Sounds like you got a good as new bike there - also great to know there is someone out there that knows these bikes backwards and is happy to work on them. Enjoy  :thumleft: 
Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: chopperpilot on June 01, 2017, 04:44:38 am
Chopper, sounds like a plan, Magoebaskloof would be nice, never ridden there before. The calling is getting louder!



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Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: chopperpilot on June 01, 2017, 04:48:31 am
As julle plek het vir n bejaarde tannie om saam Tzaneen/Magoebaskloof toe te kom, laat weet my! Ek is al lankal lus vir daai area :ricky:


Wat ry jy?


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Title: Re: My 610 let me down, but lives again!
Post by: chopperpilot on June 01, 2017, 04:52:16 am
 Well done guys!


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