Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: blauth on June 26, 2017, 05:12:18 pm

Title: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 26, 2017, 05:12:18 pm
To follow the theme of a collective review of a classification of motorcycle, this thread is dedicated to the small bore adventure orientated bikes. I think we should limit this thread to bikes that are road legal and used as adventure bikes else it's going to run away with every oke who's owned a dirt bike and everything from BigBoy to Vespa (seen some kick as adv Vespa's though    :imaposer:). There appears to be a trend moving in this direction. Lets say 450cc and less.

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with this classification of bike so I can't contribute much and there really doesn't seem to have been much on the market in RSA in this segment. If you put in your experiences below, I'll update the main post so we have a summary in one place.

Feel free to post personalized pics of the bikes in the review.

Format of review:

Make: Honda XR250L Tornado
New Price: not available new. Can pick them up between 20 and 30k second hand.
General Review:   see here: https://adventure-motorcycling.com/2015/03/25/honda-crf250l-vs-xr250-tornado/
Pros: Reliable. Arguably better adv bike than the CRF250L. Long fuel range on standard tank. Six speed gearbox.
Cons:
Weight dry: about 133kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 11.5l  @ 28km/l = over 300km
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 245mm upside downs, Rear: 242mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Honda CRF250L
New Price: R70,000.00 (2017) but suggested reatil proce is 75k
General Review:
Pros: Reliable. Arguably better adv bike than the Rally. CBR300 engine is a direct swap. Six speed transmission.
Cons:
Weight dry: about 137kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 7.7l, 33.3km/l, 256km
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front upside downs: 220mm, Rear: 238mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Honda CRF250L Rally
Price: R80,000.00 (2017) but suggested reatil proce is 85k
General Review:  I have ridden one around the Kyalami track which is not it's intended purpose but I quite enjoyed it.
Pros: Reliable. Great looks. Fairings and windshield make it nicer for longer stretches. CBR300 engine is a direct swap. Comes with ABS which is apparently very good and can switch off easily - stays off when restarted. Six speed transmission. Switchable ABS in RSA model.
Cons:  Rear suspension is undersprung for bugger riders.
Weight dry: 147kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 10.1l, 33.3km/l, 336km
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front upside downs: 250mm, Rear: 265mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Kawasaki Versus 300
Price: R75,000.00 (2017)
General Review: 
Pros: Reliable with proven engine. Excellent power for it's engine capacity. Decent looks. Luggage rack as standard. Huge fuel range. Six speed transmission. It's a twin so it's smooth.
Cons:  Short suspension travel. A bit heavy but consider that it already has a rear rack, windshield and a twin engine so the weight is relative in my opinion. It's a twin so it lacks torque.
Weight dry: 158kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 17l, 450km+
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 130mm, Rear: 147mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: BMW 310 GS
Price: Estimated R68999.00 (2017)
General Review:  Not available yet but should be available towards the end of the year.
Pros: Six speed transmission. Excellent fuel economy, switchable ABS. Luggage rack std.
Cons:  Mag wheels.
Weight dry: about 152kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 10.7 litres, 30km/l, estimated range   321km.
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 177mm upside downs, Rear: 177mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.



Make: Yamaha TT-R250
Price: not available new.
General Review:  Refer to post # 10.  http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=211693.msg3861079#msg3861079
Pros: Reliable. Excellent suspension. Good ergonomics.  Kick and electric start.
Cons: 
Weight dry:  113kg
Fuel capacity/Range:   10.2 Litres. Range: unknown
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front: 280mm, Rear: 280mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.


Make: Yamaha XT250
Price:
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:  Dodgy looking.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Yamaha TW200
Price: New R49000.00
General Review: 
Pros: Very capable despite it's low power.
Cons:  fat tyres are not good on off camber sections. Slow.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:



Make: Kawasaki KLX250
Price: I'm not sure if they were ever officially brought into SA.
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:



Make: Kawasaki DRZ400 E / S
Price: Not available new.
General Review:  I haven't owned mine for very long and it's given me a lot of shit so far so I'm not all that positive right now but if I eventually get all the kak sorted, I think it will be a great bike.
Pros: If service properly, it can be very reliable. Lots of aftermarket stuff, sadly overseas. Fair amount of power on the E model. Suspension is not too bad, being fully adjustable and compared to other bikes listed above but high speed [compression damping is shit, making small sharp irregularities very harsh.
Cons:  Parts appear to be crazy expensive from Suzuki. Close ratio five speed gearbox.
Weight dry: 119kg
Fuel capacity/Range: Std 10L, my range is only about 160km but I'm told I should be getting over 200km. Aftermarket tanks are available.
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front 290mm (compression and rebound adjustment), Rear 295mm (High/Low speed compression and rebound, pre-load),



Make: BMW G450X
Price: Not available new. Can pick them up between R30k and R40k second hand.
General Review:  see here: http://www.visordown.com/features/road-tests/first-rides/2009-bmw-g450x-first-ride-review .  Motor was subsequently used in CCM GP450, with good results (in LOW POWER mode) CCM has recently discontinued the CCM GP 450.
Pros: Reliable. Road-legal enduro bike that can be used for light adventure, with the addition of an additional fuel tank, 8000km service interval, when run in LOW POWER mode. Good dealer support. Parts generally available through BMW, and shares many common parts with Husky 449 (discontinued), and CCM GP 450 (recently discontinued). longer sprocket and chain life due to constant chain tension.
Cons: Needs valve checking every 10 hours when run in HIGH-POWER mode...  Counter Shaft sprocket is located on swingarm pivot, so more work to swap out front sprockets. Ideally needs a breather vent mod: Allows hot blow by gasses to circumvent the torque limiter and pass out the top of the valve cover. This not only aids in the life of the torque limiter, but also allows for the original manufacture recommended oil quantities to be utilized.
Weight dry: 111kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 8 Litres,
Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Marzocchi 45mm diameter upside downs, Rear: direct-mounted Ohlins shock, fully adjustable.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: Dux on June 26, 2017, 06:54:23 pm
Kawasaki were looking at bringing in the KLX250 but I recall it would have been the same price as the KLR650 .
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: blockheadxl650v on June 26, 2017, 07:07:01 pm
Nice idea for a thread I wait in expectation.  :ricky:
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: Oubones on June 26, 2017, 07:07:36 pm
Tw200 is about R49 000 new
cons: slow and does not like cambers due to big tyres
pros: reliable, cheap, goes anywhere with ease
Sani even with ice is no problem, much faster up Sani than either my old xl500 or 650bmw
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: Oubones on June 26, 2017, 07:10:05 pm
versus seat makes a plan feel soft, I do not know if they done anything about it and the dealer where I sat on it has gone closed.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: blockheadxl650v on June 26, 2017, 07:14:55 pm
can u add fuel tank capacity and expected range per tank as another field?
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: Condebr on June 27, 2017, 05:51:39 am
To follow the theme of a collective review of a classification of motorcycle, this thread is dedicated to the small bore singles. I think we should limit this thread to bikes that are used as adventure bikes else it's going to run away with every oke who's owned a dirt bike without being road legal. There appears to be a trend moving in this direction. Lets say less than 400cc

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with this classification of bike so I can't contribute much and there really doesn't seem to have been much on the market in RSA in this segment. If you put in your experiences below, I'll update the main post so we have a summary in one place.

Format of review:

Make: Honda CRF250L
New Price: R70,000.00 (2017)
General Review:
Pros: Reliable. Arguably better adv bike than the Rally. CBR300 engine is a direct swap.
Cons:
Weight dry: about 137kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 7.7l, 33.3km/l, 256km

Make: Honda CRF250L Rally
Price: R80,000.00 (2017)
General Review:  I have ridden one around the Kyalami track which is not it's intended purpose but I quite enjoyed it.
Pros: Reliable. Great looks. Fairings and windshield make it nicer for longer stretches. CBR300 engine is a direct swap.
Cons: 
Weight dry: 147kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 10.1l, 33.3km/l, 336km

Make: Kawasaki Versus 300
Price: R75,000.00 (2017)
General Review: 
Pros: Reliable with proven engine. Excellent power for it's engine capacity. Decent looks. Luggage rack as standard. Huge fuel range.
Cons:  Short suspension travel. A bit heavy.
Weight dry: 158kg
Fuel capacity/Range: 17l, 450km+

Make: BMW 310 Adventure
Price: R??? (2017)
General Review:  Not available yet but should be available towards the end of the year.
Pros: To be determined.
Cons:  Mag wheels.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:


Make: Yamaha TTR250
Price: not available new.
General Review: 
Pros: Reliable, Great performance, Decent suspension.
Cons: 
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Yamaha XT250
Price:
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:  Dodgy looking.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Yamaha TW200
Price:
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons:  fat tyres are not good on off camber sections. Slow.
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

Make: Kawasaki KLX250
Price: I'm not sure if they were ever officially brought into SA.
General Review: 
Pros:
Cons: 
Weight dry:
Fuel capacity/Range:

BMW comes in at R63 000


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: skydiver on June 27, 2017, 09:20:57 am
The Kawasaki Versys 300 is a parallel twin, not a single.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 27, 2017, 01:29:04 pm
The 63k for the BMW is for the current R isn't it. I'm referring to the not yet released GS model above.....since this is mostly an Adv site an all    :thumleft:
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on June 27, 2017, 01:35:52 pm
.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: CUZZY on June 27, 2017, 02:12:56 pm
My Yamaha TTR 250
Bought it for 19K and spent about 12k on accessories. 2005 model with 8000km.
Pros: Fantastic suspension
         Light weight, 114 kgs empty weight
         Electric and kick start
         It was  -6 degrees in Underberg on Sunday morning and started instantly.
         6 gears
         Seat reasonably comfortable
         400 km range with the Acerbis 22.5 Litre tank on.
         Bullet proof Yamaha air cooled motor. Nothing to break when it falls over.
         I'm 6 foot 2 and sit very comfortably on the bike.

Cons: Not great on fuel economy, average 20kms per litre
          It's a 250! Max speed on GPS 130kph.
          Cruise comfortable 100kph.
          Does not like long tar road hills at altitude.  5th gear and doing 80kph

Overall.: Great little dual sport bike. It took me 10 minutes from Sani Top to the RSA border post on Saturday without even racing!

Imagine a light weight 500cc twin motor in this chassis ! The bomb dot com!!
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 27, 2017, 02:13:22 pm
My opinion is that the CRF250L and the Rally are over priced but if you look at what's available new, they are pretty much in a class of their own really. I'm particularly disappointed because I really like the little Rally, both in fact.

There is no competition in it's class (not considering the Versus and BMW because they are gentle adv bikes) other than the XT250 which is still available new but it's seriously dated in comparison.  Perhaps this is why the price tag is so high.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: CUZZY on June 27, 2017, 02:22:43 pm
I agree. I personally would not spend that amount of money on a new 250 adventure bike. Having said that what does a new KTM 250F cost? Over 110k?
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 27, 2017, 02:37:47 pm
I agree. I personally would not spend that amount of money on a new 250 adventure bike. Having said that what does a new KTM 250F cost? Over 110k?

Problem is, the KTM250F is revised annually with the very latest in R&D. The suspension is state of the art. The chassis and engine are state of the art. Materials are the lightest and strongest.

For example, the power output of a 250MX bike is literally double that of the CRF250L and Rally. The 250MX bike weighs in at about 60kg less than the Rally.

I find it a hard comparison simply on engine capacity because the CRF's are rudimentary at best and stamped out in their 1000's. The one area where the CRF's (dual purpose) can justify some expense is the ABS brakes I think.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: CUZZY on June 27, 2017, 02:54:28 pm
At the end of the day sales figures are going to determine the success or failure of the bike. Personally I really like the bike and hope they do well.
I believe that when and if the proposed KTM 790 Adventure and the Yamaha T7 arrive, there is going to be a big shift to the smaller lighter bikes.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: CUZZY on June 27, 2017, 02:57:58 pm
That last sentence a bit off topic, but my 10 cents worth anyway!  >:D
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 27, 2017, 05:19:06 pm
At the end of the day sales figures are going to determine the success or failure of the bike. Personally I really like the bike and hope they do well.
I believe that when and if the proposed KTM 790 Adventure and the Yamaha T7 arrive, there is going to be a big shift to the smaller lighter bikes.

I suspect when the KTM 390 adventure arrives, there will be a shift....if they price it right. For too long, the CCM 450 has literally been the ONLY option in this segment with it's true hard core adventure/dirt capabilities.

The CRF250 Rally is a step in the right direction.

Question: If Honda made the CRF300 Rally with the CRF250X suspension and the CBR300 engine, would people pay 100k for it?

Of course, this completely screws with the 250 for licensing purposes objective but what the hell, offer both derivatives, a proper dirt worthy option versus a budget option.


Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: 1190 on June 28, 2017, 10:04:29 am
The wheels are turning....

http://www.advridermag.com.au/yamaha-t4-limited-edition-adventure-bike/
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: sidetrack on June 28, 2017, 10:54:06 am
The wheels are turning....

http://www.advridermag.com.au/yamaha-t4-limited-edition-adventure-bike/
More of a Rally bike than a dual sport. It's quite easy to dual sport an enduro bike
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: Omninorm on June 28, 2017, 02:48:15 pm
@ Blauth, I do feel you mixed Wet Weight/Kerb Weights and Dry weights on your bike list above and it's the BMW 310 GS not Adventure. They will inevitably bring out the Adventure model if they sell well,  and I'm sure then it will have spoke wheels and more travel perhaps.
The 310's pro's are already fuel consumption, 11l tank "six-speed transmission that gives us 90 mph at 71 mpg", heated grips (Optional), Switchable ABS, Rear rack, Gear indicator, Tubeless tyres. and 3 seat options.

Negatives: Cast rims, very restrictive silencer (going by reports of the R version), non adjustable levers. lowish hanging sidestand.

Other than that I agree with your thoughts on the 390 Adventure etc.
It will take 1 manufacturer to go there and then we must really hope that the big talkers get behind that and buy it in droves for the other manufacturers to follow suite.
Then Suzuki can bring an updated DRZ Adventure 400cc or something :)

I think the Versys 300 (Although not a single - but you also list it) and BMW 310 GS is going to prove that this will generate sales.
Rumour has it we will see the 310 GS in September with a retail price of between R68 999 and R71 999.
I dont think it will need to be a single cylinder only.
Imho, I don't see why Yamaha can't pull a Kawasaki and bring out a 320cc Tenere P-twin - they have an amazing amazing little 323cc engine in their R3. Lots of bottom end and midrange and then it outruns a KTM 390 top end.

I feel the 300-450 is perfect size power and weight balance. And I'm not talking a race 300-450-  talking everyday with reliable engines and with 10 000km service intervals and that are relatively affordable.

I'm just not sure all the talk gets translated into sales though. I've yet to see a single CRF250L/Rally on the road.




Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on June 28, 2017, 03:44:01 pm
Make: BMW G450X
New Price: not available new. Can pick them up between R30k and R40k second hand.
General Review:   see here: http://www.visordown.com/features/road-tests/first-rides/2009-bmw-g450x-first-ride-review (http://www.visordown.com/features/road-tests/first-rides/2009-bmw-g450x-first-ride-review)

Pros: Reliable. road-legal enduro bike that can be used for light adventure, with the addition of an additional fuel tank
8000km service interval, when run in LOW POWER mode.

good dealer support.
Parts generally available through BMW, and shares many common parts with Husky 449 (discontinued), and CCM GP 450 (recently discontinued).
longer sprocket and chain life due to constant chain tension.


Note: the 2010 model had gold forks, (as opposed to black, and had numerous upgrades over model year 2008 and 2009)

Cons:  needs valve checking every 10 hours when run in HIGH-POWER mode...
CS sprocket is located on swingarm pivot, so more work to swap out CS sprockets.
ideally needs a breather vent mod: Allows hot blow by gasses to circumvent the torque limiter and pass out the top of the valve cover. This not only aids in the life of the torque limiter, but also allows for the original manufacture recommended oil quantities to be utilized.
Weight dry: about 111kg

Fuel capacity/Range: 8.0L
Suspension Front: Marzocchi 45mm diameter upside downs, Rear: direct-mounted Ohlins shock, fully adjustable.

the BMW Motor was subsequently used in the UK-built CCM GP450 [Edit: 5000 m-i-l-e service interval, due to low power mode], with good results (in LOW POWER mode). CCM has recently discontinued the CCM GP 450.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 28, 2017, 04:58:49 pm
@ zebra - Flying Brick: Thanks for the comprehensive review on the G450X. Makes me think I made a mistake buying the DRZ.

@ Omninorm: Thanks for pointing out the errors of my ways....    ;)    I updated some of the points.
Feel free to correct me where I have erred and I'll fix the original post. Some of the weights may not be exact but should be within about a kg or two. I've done some guessing because some sites only list kurb weight so I've tried to deduct the weight of fuel and other fluids to achieve the dry weights.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 28, 2017, 05:00:56 pm
The wheels are turning....

http://www.advridermag.com.au/yamaha-t4-limited-edition-adventure-bike/

That's damn nice but did I read right, 30 to be made available world wide?
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on June 28, 2017, 05:10:26 pm


Quote from: blauth on Today at 04:58:49 pm (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=211693.msg3862212#msg3862212)
@ zebra - Flying Brick: Thanks for the comprehensive review on the G450X. Makes me think I made a mistake buying the DRZ.


@ blauth: unsure, I like th eDRZ, and remember...the G450X only 'likes' to do around 115km/h sustained on the tar; it can overtake at around 145km/h, but does not like to be flogged, whereas I think the DRZ could 'sit' at a higher speed, possibly?
Chris


Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 28, 2017, 05:19:41 pm


Quote from: blauth on Today at 04:58:49 pm (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=211693.msg3862212#msg3862212)
@ zebra - Flying Brick: Thanks for the comprehensive review on the G450X. Makes me think I made a mistake buying the DRZ.


@ blauth: unsure, I like th eDRZ, and remember...the G450X only 'likes' to do around 115km/h sustained on the tar; it can overtake at around 145km/h, but does not like to be flogged, whereas I think the DRZ could 'sit' at a higher speed, possibly?
Chris


My DRZe is geared like the 's' model (15/44) and it's happy place for cruizing is about 115km/h too. Speedo is pretty acurate, reading at 5km/h over at the 115km so true speed around 110km/h. It easily pulls to about 155km/h for overtaking but it's not happy there.

One thing I must admit is that I'm a little surprised at the power of the DRZ. It's pretty quick for a 400. Maybe because it's ratio's are closer to a 250's ratio's.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on June 29, 2017, 08:08:12 am
from our good friend Michnus, travelling in South America...!





Bit embarrassing that ZA can't build bikes. Good to see Kenya take the bull by the horns and that with a the Dutch helping. We have everything in ZA to do this type of thing. Okay Kenya are much more into small bikes than ZA.


Can carry 250kg! Good for back up for the "Enduro pro" bikes   

http://kibo.bike/ (http://kibo.bike/)


https://auto.ndtv.com/news/kibo-k150-motorcycle-launched-in-kenya-1695186 (https://auto.ndtv.com/news/kibo-k150-motorcycle-launched-in-kenya-1695186)



Kibo is Swahili for 'hippo' and the company is founded by a Dutch economist. The bike's design has its origins in the Netherlands, but it has been designed and developed specifically for Africa and its people.

Dutch company Kibo has been introduced in Kenya to build safer motorcycles, and to address problems of purpose-built transport in the African nation. The company was set up by Dutch economist Huib van de Grijspaard and the bike was designed in Amsterdam. After more than two years of research and trips to Kenya, Kibo has launched the K150 - a motorcycle built for the Kenyan rider. The bike is developed in Kenya, with parts sourced directly from manufacturers and assembled in Nairobi at local manufacturing plants.


The idea was to build a bike that is safe, high-quality and affordable; at the same time rugged and with decent power for both off-road and city traffic conditions. The Kibo K150 was designed to meet a unique market demand - the requirement of quick and sturdy vehicles for the medical community, NGOs and courier companies like DHL and Western Union. The K 150 is also targeted at boda-boda drivers - the unofficial motorcycle taxis in cities like Nairobi.

Kibo K150 features a rugged frame and 250 kg load carrying capacity

Both the product and the branding have been designed keeping in mind motorcycle safety for Kenyans, and also to educate people about motorcycle safety. Traffic laws in Kenya are unenforced and many riders don't even wear helmets because of prohibitive pricing. Huib van de Grijspaard roped in design studio Greenspace to do the branding. The company says the bike has been designed specifically for Africa and its people, with a rugged chassis, torquey engine and decent load carrying capacity.

Kibo K150 features vertically stacked dual headlights

The Kibo K150's frame is made out of welded steel tubing, making the bike incredibly strong and the K150 can carry loads of up to 250 kg - essential for doctors, aid workers, and cargo carriers transporting baggage. The bike uses a single-cylinder, air-cooled, four-stroke, single overhead cam engine with balance shaft. While power and torque output hasn't been disclosed, the 150 cc engine is said to offer a good mix of power and efficiency. Maximum torque is achieved at low revs, making for good off-road performance, while the balancer shaft makes for smooth and refined operation.

Kibo K150 has large 21-inch front wheel, 200 mm ground clearance

Dual-sport tyres shod on large wheels (21-inch front, 18-inch rear) and a high ground clearance of 200 mm equip the Kibo K150 with decent off-road ability. A reinforced bash plate protects the underside from rocks and rough roads. Braking is handled by a 266 mm front disc and 220 mm rear disc gripped by dual piston calipers. The company's name, Kibo, is derived from the Swahili word for 'hippo'. The Kibo K150 is priced at 3,42,200 Kenyan Shillings (just over Rs 2 lakh).

« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 11:58:24 PM by michnus »




semms like a nice, Africa-friendly small bike option in/around cities and rural areas!
Chris
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 29, 2017, 08:22:11 am
Kibo 150.

What a brilliant idea, to build these bikes in Kenya, and build them so strongly.

Decent frame, you won't easily break that subframe :deal: , agri-bike suspension and the right wheelsizes.

A strong cheapie for Africa.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on June 29, 2017, 09:37:14 am
Kibo 150:  approximate South African Rand price, converted from Kenyan Shilling directly: would be around R42K.


Cheers
Chris
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: blauth on June 29, 2017, 10:10:38 am
Excellent design on the little Kibo 150. Probably weighs a ton but does that really matter. On Maslow's heirarchy of needs:

Must crash well - ticked (crash bars all around and rear foot boards double up as foot rests and/or luggage support)
Must carry at least three people and a cow (together) - ticked
Must be cheap and reliable - ticked (not sure about engine but I'm sure it's not bad)
Must use little fuel - ticked (only a little 150)

My only criticism would be (maybe); with what appears to be little suspension travel, the lower fork tubes extend way past the axle....probably unnecessary however this design will allow for a longer stanchion, thus allowing for bushing being further apart, thus having a lower wear ratio so maybe there is method to the madness.

Fuel capacity @ 6.8 litres is also a bit on the low side given that fuel is not readily available everywhere and for doctors using this little bike to ride to remote villages, I'm sure they need the extra range.

Well done Kenya!!
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: 1190 on June 29, 2017, 03:56:46 pm
Excellent design on the little Kibo 150. Probably weighs a ton but does that really matter. On Maslow's heirarchy of needs:

Must crash well - ticked (crash bars all around and rear foot boards double up as foot rests and/or luggage support)
Must carry at least three people and a cow (together) - ticked
Must be cheap and reliable - ticked (not sure about engine but I'm sure it's not bad)
Must use little fuel - ticked (only a little 150)

My only criticism would be (maybe); with what appears to be little suspension travel, the lower fork tubes extend way past the axle....probably unnecessary however this design will allow for a longer stanchion, thus allowing for bushing being further apart, thus having a lower wear ratio so maybe there is method to the madness.

Fuel capacity @ 6.8 litres is also a bit on the low side given that fuel is not readily available everywhere and for doctors using this little bike to ride to remote villages, I'm sure they need the extra range.

Well done Kenya!!
  :lol8: :lol8: I always thought Maslow had it wrong when I was studying...for me it was sex, drugs, and rock and roll....now its bikes, kids and boerwors rolls :imaposer:
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: hugh101 on June 29, 2017, 04:43:49 pm


Here is a really cool review of the kawasaki 300X

It ends quite well, is it a bike for the young or the old?
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: sidetrack on June 29, 2017, 05:42:04 pm


Here is a really cool review of the kawasaki 300X

It ends quite well, is it a bike for the young or the old?
Nothing beats a thumper offroad full stop.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: Sheepman on June 29, 2017, 08:01:23 pm
Very interesting.The Honda 250 seems to be a really nice little bike ( but I think it suffers from the old Honda ache of being too porky :pot:).
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on June 30, 2017, 08:41:04 am
weight of the Kibo (unsure if DRY or WET weight...)


Hi Christopher,
Thank you for contacting Kibo.
The Kibo K150 weighs approximately 135 kgs net.
I hope that is sufficient.
 
Kind regards

Nancy
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: Weedkiller - Adie on July 04, 2017, 11:24:30 pm
**Snip**
Make: Honda CRF250L Rally
Cons:  Rear suspension is undersprung for bigger riders.

Suspension (Travel Front, Rear, Adjustability): Front upside downs: 250mm, Rear: 265mm, rear pre-load adjustment only.
** Snap **

'undersprung' that is an UNDERSTATEMENT of note. 
Het vandag na 'n splinternuwe een gekyk en die STATIC SAG WAS 85mm.  Rider sag van 100kg persoon was 80mm wat nie te bad is.

Met die moerse static sag is dit nogal 'n issue om van die fiets af te klim as die sidestand reeds uit is.  Dis HEELWAT erger as 'n 'plestiek' wat redelik regop staan.  Die fiets 'kom saam' as mens afklim.

Nie met hom gery maar verder van hom gehou BEHALWE vir die cheap blink swart panele.  Ek sal dit onmiddelik 'n mat clearcoat gee.  Van die panele is Poly Propolene wat lekker sterk is maar o wee Honda gebruik seker die swakste ABS op die planeet.  Die toolbox deksel is reeds gekraak. (Ons het al krake op verskeie ABS panele op Honda's gesien.)  So deur die gaatjies gekyk lyk dit asof die preload op laagste was.  (Danie hy is in Japan aanmekaargesit :pot:)

Sal ek hom koop?
Ek dink nie so, behalwe vir die prys is die enjin is net bietjie te klein om werklik iewers heen te ry.  Sal eerder na die 300+ cc modelle kyk al is dit nie so 'offroad capable' soos die Honda moontlik kan wees.

Adie
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: onderbroek on April 19, 2020, 07:46:47 am
How exciting is this?

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/27/honda-hunter-cub-ct125-trail-motorbike-motorcycle/ (https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/27/honda-hunter-cub-ct125-trail-motorbike-motorcycle/)

(https://s.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1049x590/quality/80/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020/03/27090851/2200320-ct125_001H.jpg)
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 19, 2020, 08:43:22 am
A serious problem with smallbore adventure bikes is their lack of power, or more specifically, torque.

A day-outing on a bike with no luggage is a far cry from a multiple day with luggage, and add to this long days and wind/hills, and it can become a difficult ride for some.

Unless you buy and convert a Yamaha WR to become, kicking and screaming, a D/S bike, what is the point of a 145kg 250cc, if one can also have a 145kg 701?
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: desertfox on April 19, 2020, 11:17:55 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: blauth on April 20, 2020, 07:42:19 am
A serious problem with smallbore adventure bikes is their lack of power, or more specifically, torque.

A day-outing on a bike with no luggage is a far cry from a multiple day with luggage, and add to this long days and wind/hills, and it can become a difficult ride for some.

Unless you buy and convert a Yamaha WR to become, kicking and screaming, a D/S bike, what is the point of a 145kg 250cc, if one can also have a 145kg 701?

I'd argue that all it requires is a mind set change.....and once you embrace that change, it's quite liberating.

These things are not around the world travelers except for someone trying to prove a point. They are lightweight, no fuss, low maintenance, low fuel commuters, reliable and cheap for the masses. It's only the Cafe Racer genre that have idolized this into a cult status (me being one of those).  Which have kinda screwed the pooch because cheap is no longer.

I mention I went up Sani on my ANF125 scooter in a 300km+ day. Admittedly, I got some strange looks and at that altitude, power was barely enough to get to the top. This scoot, I bought basically new from Honda in roughly  2014/15 for R11500.00. It had zero mileage but they had stripped mirrors, luggage rack and seat bracket off to repair other bikes for the post office who had a fleet of them.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: blauth on April 20, 2020, 07:53:10 am
How exciting is this?

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/27/honda-hunter-cub-ct125-trail-motorbike-motorcycle/ (https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/27/honda-hunter-cub-ct125-trail-motorbike-motorcycle/)

(https://s.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1049x590/quality/80/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020/03/27090851/2200320-ct125_001H.jpg)

I like that, a whole lot.

I have visions of building a hydraulically/electric actuated bike rack at the back of the Landy (Defender). The little bike would sit where the spare wheel currently sits, perpendicular to the van on a rail. The rail has two activating shafts on either side that can drop the rail to the floor level (and lower, explanation below). The rack can also tilt 45 degree back so that when it's in the down position, you can open the rear door.

Furthermore, the rack can extend lower than floor level to act as an automatic jack to lift the rear of the vehicle up in cases of tyre repair and if you're stuck.

Why this little bike is ideal is it's relatively light and is the ideal overland companion .... this may still be a project of mine in the future.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 20, 2020, 08:47:31 am
A serious problem with smallbore adventure bikes is their lack of power, or more specifically, torque.

A day-outing on a bike with no luggage is a far cry from a multiple day with luggage, and add to this long days and wind/hills, and it can become a difficult ride for some.

Unless you buy and convert a Yamaha WR to become, kicking and screaming, a D/S bike, what is the point of a 145kg 250cc, if one can also have a 145kg 701?

I'd argue that all it requires is a mind set change.....and once you embrace that change, it's quite liberating.

These things are not around the world travelers except for someone trying to prove a point. They are lightweight, no fuss, low maintenance, low fuel commuters, reliable and cheap for the masses. It's only the Cafe Racer genre that have idolized this into a cult status (me being one of those).  Which have kinda screwed the pooch because cheap is no longer.

I mention I went up Sani on my ANF125 scooter in a 300km+ day. Admittedly, I got some strange looks and at that altitude, power was barely enough to get to the top. This scoot, I bought basically new from Honda in roughly  2014/15 for R11500.00. It had zero mileage but they had stripped mirrors, luggage rack and seat bracket off to repair other bikes for the post office who had a fleet of them.

I really like small bikes, and have done a lot of riding on them. If I were to ride around the globe, I would probably go for Yamaha's XT250.  Low seat height, low[ish] weight, frugal with tyres, chains and fuel,

and I would not do a world "whirlwind" tour, so cruising speed of max 100 is just fine.

I really think that a bike like the XT500, with minor improvements like front only disc brake, electronic ignition like the SR, would still make a fantastic D/S bike.
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: Oubones on April 20, 2020, 09:11:43 am
@2StrokeDan
Why not just adventurise a SR500?
If I look at where people have gone with GS700's then the mag wheels should be ok?
I have one that is why I am asking.
Lower and much lighter than my lazyboy( 650 dakar) and very easy to handle!
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: Lem on April 20, 2020, 09:20:11 am
Cool thread this  :thumleft:

The past few years I have realised that I don't get the time to hop on a big bike and ride to another province, ride around for a few days & then ride back.

But with the right small bike ... I can load it on a trailer, take it with me on holiday and book the family in wherever and then disappear on some dirt & technical routes for a night or two  :thumleft:

The TTR250 ... ticks all the boxes for me. I need one in my life  :deal:
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: Weedkiller - Adie on April 20, 2020, 09:34:59 am
A serious problem with smallbore adventure bikes is their lack of power, or more specifically, torque.

A day-outing on a bike with no luggage is a far cry from a multiple day with luggage, and add to this long days and wind/hills, and it can become a difficult ride for some.


I'd argue that all it requires is a mind set change.....and once you embrace that change, it's quite liberating.

These things are not around the world travelers except for someone trying to prove a point. .........

So true @blauth
I was looking to downsize for about 3 years before I finally did it.  For me it was simple, I wanted a new challenge, not the weight, not the price, not the reliability, just enough power and a lot of fun.  At the end my capacity/power was set at 300cc.  I know nothing about kW or Horse power other than one got 4 legs and must be a bigger number than the one without legs for the same oomph.  >:D 

I took the little Zontes 310 on some routes that the majority of riders might not even attempt and had more fun than on the 800 for the simple reason it was a 4 times bigger challenge!!!!!  I did du Toits and Bains whilst still running the bike in and could easily keep the speed higher then 115kph on the uphill.  AND it take the sharp turns better than a big DS bike.  :)  A fairly strong headwind from Gouda back did bring the speed down to about 80kph.

Ont thing I learnt, we are utterly spoiled with even a average DS bike offroad capabilities.  We think we are riding Gods but in the meantime it is actually the capabilities of the bike!!  I dare you to get on one of these (non offroad orientated 17/19" fronts) bikes in the technical tracks, I am not talking about the 250 Rally or Versys or BMW pretenders, you are going to WORK but the feeling of achievement is so much bigger.

Ohh and everybody suggest, add, spoke wheels, fit a 21" front, upgrade the suspension, do this, do that, make it more offroad cabpable. Ohh for Fook sakes, then I could just have bought an more offroad capable bike or keep the 800.

Another mindset thing, everything I add to the bike for my long trips like luggage racks, luggage plate are thinner, lighter etc.  What is the sense in a 150kg bike with 100th kgs accessory's before even luggage.  Actually even my already light tools and luggage was on a slimming spree.


Adie
Title: Re: Small Bore Singles (450 and below) - collective review
Post by: Pullaway on April 20, 2020, 11:20:35 am
I recently sold my Honda XLR 250 Baja, must say I quite enjoyed the bike. About 25Kg lighter than the 250CRF and 4Kw more power as well as slightly more torque, 6 speed with decent suspension. Think it is a good buy if you can find one. Kick start only though.