Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Jacobsroodt on March 28, 2018, 04:21:50 pm

Title: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Jacobsroodt on March 28, 2018, 04:21:50 pm
Most experienced riders will advise you that on the long trip you need to have big adventure bike, something like BMW 1200 or Yamaha Super Tenere. You will need a powerful engine and enough luggage capacity. Big petrol tank is absolutely necessary and there is nothing better than driveshaft. In this video I will try to convince you that on the long motorcycle tip itís much better to ride a small and light bike. Stay with me!



N: 1 Ė The price of the trip.
To travel the world you need a motorcycle: Big adventure bikes, like BMW 1200GS, KTM 1290 or Yamaha Super Tenere will cost you not less than 15,000 euro. When you include your gear and the hard cases you can go up to 18,000 euro. This will be just to have the bike, than will comes tyres, oils, maintenance taxes and insurance. With the big boys the costs will be 30-40 up to 50% higher than a small and cheap bike. Spending so much money will not guarantee that you will have better adventure, itís only guarantee that you will spend much more before you even start the trip.

N: 2 Ė The Weight
The weigh always matter. If you are looking for adventure, soon or later you will leave the asphalt roads and go deep into the off road world. Itís just the matter of time to realize that the lighter you are the better chances to stay straight you have. To learn that the big and heavy engine is useless on the dirt. To find out that itís much easier to lift 200 instead of 300 kilograms. You can make it once, twice or ten times, but you cannot do it all day round. You have to skip some parts of the road or you will need help. More you travel lighter you will become. 

N: 3 - Constant instead of top speed.
You donít need to be super good in the calculations to see that on the long motorcycle trip itís much better to have a constant instead of top speed. You might disagree with me and tell me that you prefer big bike, but you will ride it slow. Really, why you need a big bike then? I have seen many guys to ride small bikes fast, but I have never seen the opposite way. When you ride fast you have to be concentrated on the ride. By doing so, you cannot really look around and enjoy the ride. You can miss important thing or information signs. You increase the chances to make an accident or to avoid somebody else mistake.  Reduce the speed if you want to see the world.

N: 4 Ė Good reason to take less luggage.
With small and light bike, you probably will go to soft luggage, which is right if you ask me, and this will automatically reduce the number of the items you taking with you. You donít need to double or triple everything. You will ride on Earth not on Mars. Leave the kitchen sink and the toilet seat at home, they are too heavy. Yes, but on the long trip you need more staff! Really! Guys, I always taking the same staff and it doesnít matter how long is the trip, one week or one month.

N: 5 - Safety.
I will split this on two categories:
- Personal safety.
With small and light bike itís much easy to ride in the traffic and do some not so legal manoeuvres. Easy to move it when the engine is not working. Easy to ride on and off road and lift it, if you have to. More likely to stay unhurt if you fell down and stuck under the bike. Easy to cross a river or ride on the sand, especially if you are alone. By having this easy control you are increasing the chances to finish the trip without any problems.
- Bike safety.
So guys, the definition of Adventure is exciting or unusual experience that usually involving some risks. You can do it with any bike. Instead of spending 20,000 euro for new and fancy bike, spend 5 or 7,000 and the rest use to travel the world.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: JustBendIt on March 28, 2018, 04:45:19 pm
I fully agree

I have had a few big bikes ...the last one being a KTM 950 SE that I rode 50 000 km on in 5 years

There were many times and places that I was totally "overbiked" trying to wrestle with something that was 2 1/2 times my body weight ...and the SE is known as a relatively light big bike

Your pic shows a 660 Tenere vs 1200 Tenere ... even the 660 is big and heavy at a claimed 206 kg (http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_xt660_tenere%2014.htm)

I am now riding an "adventurised" KTM 500 ... a bike that starts out at a claimed wet weight of 114 kg (http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ktm/ktm_500%20XC-W%2014.htm) ... I have added a 20 litre fuel tank (good for 400 km range) and a Giant Loop Coyote bag for my luggage and the bike is now at 130 kg fully fuelled and loaded for a trip

You have to ride a smaller bike on a long trip to believe it for yourself how much more fun and less tiring it is ...smaller really is better ... and I keep telling my wife that
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: ETS on March 28, 2018, 04:55:54 pm
Naaaaa had a few trips on my 690--- never again. My 1290 takes me any place I want to be :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on March 28, 2018, 05:00:25 pm
It seems to me a small bike and the trailer must be bought at the same time. :deal:

Big and small have a spot in the garage, sadly not all of us can afford both and the trailer.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Tampan on March 28, 2018, 05:44:13 pm
Agree with ETS and ChrisL.

I loved my XR650L, but doing stretches longer than 400km in one day, although absolutely possible, became more of a torture than the pleasure it was supposed to be. Horses for courses and I will probably never buy either the big BM or KTM, maybe because I can't ride well enough, but at this stage, I doubt whether I'll swap my 990 for anything smaller.
I took my son's KTM 525 for a ride around the farm, some time ago and although it goes like smoke, I found it extremely uncomfortable. Probably all boils down to the type of riding one does and like someone else said, any respectable biker should have at least three bikes in his garage.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 28, 2018, 06:36:10 pm
Agree with ETS and ChrisL.

I loved my XR650L, but doing stretches longer than 400km in one day, although absolutely possible, became more of a torture than the pleasure it was supposed to be. Horses for courses and I will probably never buy either the big BM or KTM, maybe because I can't ride well enough, but at this stage, I doubt whether I'll swap my 990 for anything smaller.
I took my son's KTM 525 for a ride around the farm, some time ago and although it goes like smoke, I found it extremely uncomfortable. Probably all boils down to the type of riding one does and like someone else said, any respectable biker should have at least three bikes in his garage.

But if you go on a unplanned trip, how would 3 bikes in your garage help you?  The beauty of the small bike is that, even though they are a bit of a test on long, open stretches, they leave you the choice

to explore any trail you come across on your travels.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Rossdog on March 28, 2018, 07:01:20 pm
It all depends what you want to do, and I guess everybody has a different idea of what "adventure" is. For me, adventure is not cruising long distances on well kept gravel highways or graded dirt passes. Bigger bikes will obviously be better suited for this. For me, adventure is the kind of stuff discussed on the "Economically Adventurizing a KTM 500" threat. But, many people will disagree.

Xpat, Justin and Straatkat, how would a 1200 GS, 1290 or even a GS 800 have fared on your recent trip?
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 28, 2018, 07:03:12 pm
It all depends what you want to do, and I guess everybody has a different idea of what "adventure" is. For me, adventure is not cruising long distances on well kept gravel highways or graded dirt passes. Bigger bikes will obviously be better suited for this. For me, adventure is the kind of stuff discussed on the "Economically Adventurizing a KTM 500" threat. But, many people will disagree.

Xpat, Justin and Straatkat, how would a 1200 GS, 1290 or even a GS 800 have fared on your recent trip?

In the hands of Chris Birch? :pot: :pot:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Crossed-up on March 28, 2018, 07:14:48 pm
We are much too polite to talk about light versus heavy riders ...

Recently a man who weighs 120kg, and who can bench press a Toyota bakkie, was recommending a 250kg bike to a short chap of 66kg.  Come on, guys!
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: sidetrack on March 28, 2018, 07:55:40 pm
17hp can take you around the world, the rest is just wheelspin
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Sheepman on March 28, 2018, 08:51:54 pm
Small is way better......just don't take the kitchen sink and piano with on trip
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Ama ride ride on March 28, 2018, 09:47:25 pm
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Pilchie on March 28, 2018, 09:57:10 pm
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...

exactly - whatever floats your boat
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Ama ride ride on March 28, 2018, 10:13:38 pm
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...

I re-read my post and realize it sound a bit bland.

What I mean is that speaking in a broad sense, a well off man will not buy a cheap car or bike. He will go for the more expensive ones. Whatever its perfect for his needs will not be much of a factor when he buy it as he will find his types of rides to suit his bike. He will make it work.

Then as time and experience walks on and preference is established he will buy a bike which suite his needs more or buy a second bike.

There is not really a one size fits all bike.

My dream bike garage will have about 20 bikes. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 28, 2018, 11:36:07 pm
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...

exactly - whatever floats your boat

No, das Boot is too heavy. :pot:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: dirt rat on March 29, 2018, 06:29:42 am
Yes and no - I own a 650x challenge and a 1150 gs. The 1150 was bought about five years ago with 70000 on the clock- now 235000.
Define a long trip - 7 days Namibia to cover some ground and see some sights - 1150 - three weeks to explore-650.
4 day Klein Karoo - Rooiberg- Groenrivier and Baviaans - 1150
4 day Baviaans to explore-650
Cederberg - Wuppertal-Algeria-1150
Cederberg-Old Postal-Heuningvlei to the top of the pass-650.
Pillion- 1150
My luggage for both bikes is the same except that it weighs a bit more on the 650 due to tools and tubes.
1150 weight all up- about 260kg- 650 about 180kg - that is about one and a half pockets of cement.
That does not mean the 1150 is shit to ride - just to pick up so don't drop it.
So as the song goes - if you can't be with the one you love - love the one your with.
And yes the 650 tenere is heavy.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on March 29, 2018, 06:54:42 am
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...

+1.

There is no right or wrong here because we all have different likes and dislikes.  2SD loves his small light bike and happily take the strain it presents on the long open road.  I like my big bike and happily accept that I cannot ride the small and off the beaten track trials with it.  This list of riders and bikes goes on.  If we all were the same, we could have bought a Quantum and all rode in it together, in exactly the same way.

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: adv on March 29, 2018, 08:07:15 am
I fully agree

I have had a few big bikes ...the last one being a KTM 950 SE that I rode 50 000 km on in 5 years

There were many times and places that I was totally "overbiked" trying to wrestle with something that was 2 1/2 times my body weight ...and the SE is known as a relatively light big bike

Your pic shows a 660 Tenere vs 1200 Tenere ... even the 660 is big and heavy at a claimed 206 kg (http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_xt660_tenere%2014.htm)

I am now riding an "adventurised" KTM 500 ... a bike that starts out at a claimed wet weight of 114 kg (http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ktm/ktm_500%20XC-W%2014.htm) ... I have added a 20 litre fuel tank (good for 400 km range) and a Giant Loop Coyote bag for my luggage and the bike is now at 130 kg fully fuelled and loaded for a trip

You have to ride a smaller bike on a long trip to believe it for yourself how much more fun and less tiring it is ...smaller really is better ... and I keep telling my wife that

Exactly why I moved to my XRR too. Lightweight... Simple and fun.  Sure anything with black stuff is boring and torture, but you can't have it all.. can you?

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: jaybiker on March 29, 2018, 09:57:13 am
Yes and no - I own a 650x challenge and a 1150 gs. The 1150 was bought about five years ago with 70000 on the clock- now 235000.
Define a long trip - 7 days Namibia to cover some ground and see some sights - 1150 - three weeks to explore-650.
4 day Klein Karoo - Rooiberg- Groenrivier and Baviaans - 1150
4 day Baviaans to explore-650
Cederberg - Wuppertal-Algeria-1150
Cederberg-Old Postal-Heuningvlei to the top of the pass-650.
Pillion- 1150
My luggage for both bikes is the same except that it weighs a bit more on the 650 due to tools and tubes.
1150 weight all up- about 260kg- 650 about 180kg - that is about one and a half pockets of cement.
That does not mean the 1150 is shit to ride - just to pick up so don't drop it.
So as the song goes - if you can't be with the one you love - love the one your with.
And yes the 650 tenere is heavy.



Snap! I also own the same pair of bikes, 1150 and X Challenge. Although I don't undertake many very long trips, a weekend bash is about the longest for me. But on the tar road there's very little difference in the speed I cruise at. 120, or 130 or 140 if I feel like it, that's fine on either bike apart from one thing. The bloody X Challenge seat!  :o

Since I can't afford a nice aftermarket replacement, I'm considering some padded cycling pants for a bit of relief. Anyone with experience or advice on that?
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Vis Arend on March 29, 2018, 10:50:02 am
One up it makes sense, two up methinks you will not enjoy it on a small bike. 
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on March 29, 2018, 11:09:01 am


Quote from: jaybiker on Today at 09:57:13 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=222515.msg4029723#msg4029723)


>Quote from: dirt rat on Today at 06:29:42 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=222515.msg4029575#msg4029575)>..... that's fine on either bike apart from one thing. The bloody X Challenge seat! :o

Since I can't afford a nice aftermarket replacement, I'm considering some padded cycling pants for a bit of relief. Anyone with experience or advice on that?

Yes: I ride a 450 'Adventure Lite' bike, and it has a harder seat than the X Challenge, I ride with padded cycling shorts, no underpants, and it works a treat, and then the padded cycling shorts double up as swimming cozzie/bathers when coming accross a dam or stream, etc.
Cycling shorts for the win!
Chris


Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: w@nted on March 29, 2018, 12:03:24 pm
So I will be able to give some feedback on this matter soon. Just sold my 1200 GS and bought a new Husky 701. Picking up the bike on Tuesday...

Cannot afford both, so had to make a choice. You only live once, so I am willing to try different things. Can always buy a big bike again when the kids are grown up and my wife wants to ride along again. For now, it is hooligan time  :ricky:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: blauth on March 29, 2018, 01:42:16 pm
Horses for courses really......

Depends what terrain, what kind of riding, how competent you are as a rider, pillion, camping vs B&B, personal preferrence, budget and a gazillion more other factors.

There are too many variables to make a generalized recommendation about what's better. Question should be asked and answered on a case by case basis.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Omninorm on March 29, 2018, 06:54:27 pm
So I will be able to give some feedback on this matter soon. Just sold my 1200 GS and bought a new Husky 701. Picking up the bike on Tuesday...

Cannot afford both, so had to make a choice. You only live once, so I am willing to try different things. Can always buy a big bike again when the kids are grown up and my wife wants to ride along again. For now, it is hooligan time  :ricky:

You will love it.
500km days - no problem.

We are much too polite to talk about light versus heavy riders ...

Recently a man who weighs 120kg, and who can bench press a Toyota bakkie, was recommending a 250kg bike to a short chap of 66kg.  Come on, guys!
I also find it funny that sometimes lekker overweight gents has long discussions and arguments about a bike weight.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: blauth on March 30, 2018, 05:47:10 am


Quote from: jaybiker on Today at 09:57:13 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=222515.msg4029723#msg4029723)


>Quote from: dirt rat on Today at 06:29:42 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=222515.msg4029575#msg4029575)>..... that's fine on either bike apart from one thing. The bloody X Challenge seat! :o

Since I can't afford a nice aftermarket replacement, I'm considering some padded cycling pants for a bit of relief. Anyone with experience or advice on that?

Yes: I ride a 450 'Adventure Lite' bike, and it has a harder seat than the X Challenge, I ride with padded cycling shorts, no underpants, and it works a treat, and then the padded cycling shorts double up as swimming cozzie/bathers when coming accross a dam or stream, etc.
Cycling shorts for the win!
Chris


As you say, cycling shorts, no underpants. It works a treat.....it does feel like you're wearing a nappy though.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: jaybiker on March 30, 2018, 07:15:04 am
Might as well get used to that now, 'cos at my age, well.....
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: BliknÍrs on March 30, 2018, 07:55:14 am
Everything is relative but a 660 or 700 is not really a small bike.
Small bike for me is around 250cc and if you consider a long adventure trip to be the kind of riding and roads deepest darkest Africa will dish up, the main advantages of a small bike has not been mentioned.
They are light to man handle eg pick up, drag out of ruts, load in a dug out etc and they are easy to work on and fix.
EDIT:
However if long adventure trip means you have distance to cover and time is an issue a big bike is a must and you will have to modify your route according to what you ride and how much time you have. Some would argue that takes the adventure out of a trip.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: DCR on March 30, 2018, 09:49:02 am
I was about to say the same... back in the day a 500 was considered a beast of thing. These days, where a modern 300 makes as much as those old 500s we have ďwhat should I buyĒ threads where everybody recommends 1200s because 800s donít work well when you pillion. It is bloody insane. Same way our bakkies keep on getting bigger, our bikes keep getting bigger. I donít know why.

My 800 is for sale, it is way too big.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: BlueBull2007 on March 31, 2018, 07:35:15 am
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...


Exactly. Its an adventure on a big bike and another adventure on a small one. Bikes are like women anyways ;D
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 31, 2018, 08:41:37 pm
I was about to say the same... back in the day a 500 was considered a beast of thing. These days, where a modern 300 makes as much as those old 500s we have ďwhat should I buyĒ threads where everybody recommends 1200s because 800s donít work well when you pillion. It is bloody insane. Same way our bakkies keep on getting bigger, our bikes keep getting bigger. I donít know why.

My 800 is for sale, it is way too big.

Very interesting what you say, and it still amazes me how we get used to more and more power.

My 1976 Kawasaki Z1000 made about 80 horsepower, and it was a beast. Today's singles are almost there. :eek7:

The Yamaha XT500 used to be a man's bike, today it would be ridiculed in power-circles with it's 28 hp, 6hp less than the new GS310. :eek7:

But the Yamaha XT won the 1st and 2nd year of Dakar rally, and I do not believe the GS310 could duplicate that. 

This is how far we've come.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Hondsekierie on March 31, 2018, 09:12:00 pm
My 'slightly upgraded' (bigger fuel tank & Ohlins suspension) BMW HP2 with Holan pannier frames (ultra light) weighed in at a guesstimated 195kg dry (stock @185kg)

For me that was the best allrounder ever, but luckily, I now have a few bikes to choose from. 

Oh yes, and I weigh more than 120kg so technically speaking I'm not allowed to talk bike weights :lol8:

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 31, 2018, 09:20:46 pm
My 'slightly upgraded' (bigger fuel tank & Ohlins suspension) BMW HP2 with Holan pannier frames (ultra light) weighed in at a guesstimated 195kg dry (stock @185kg)

For me that was the best allrounder ever, but luckily, I now have a few bikes to choose from. 

Oh yes, and I weigh more than 120kg so technically speaking I'm not allowed to talk bike weights :lol8:

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on March 31, 2018, 09:57:27 pm
Oh yes, and I weigh more than 120kg so technically speaking I'm not allowed to talk bike weights :lol8:

Ja.  Bliksem!  I just jumped on the scales and found that I am also disqualified from talking bike weights.

I am also ugly.so no talk on bike looks I assume?   :lol8:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 01, 2018, 07:17:15 am
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...


Exactly. Its an adventure on a big bike and another adventure on a small one. Bikes are like women anyways ;D

True! You cannot really take a fat woman for a hike up a mountain, can you? 

So I just wonder what sort of adventure you can take a fat women on? They struggle walking along a beach, mud is DEFINITELY out and like I said, technical hiking is a no-no. :eek7:

But they're usually very at home in the kitchen. :snorting:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on April 01, 2018, 11:18:39 am
There is no.."why?".....

Just ride whatever you want and can and prefer...


Exactly. Its an adventure on a big bike and another adventure on a small one. Bikes are like women anyways ;D

True! You cannot really take a fat woman for a hike up a mountain, can you? 

So I just wonder what sort of adventure you can take a fat women on? They struggle walking along a beach, mud is DEFINITELY out and like I said, technical hiking is a no-no. :eek7:

But they're usually very at home in the kitchen. :snorting:

Nasty Danie, nasty.  Sies!

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Robin Brown on April 01, 2018, 11:34:45 am
I recently rode with a group in the Tankwa and Cedarberg over 2 days covered about 800km and one rider was on a 250 Rally Honda.
And was quite able to keep pace with the rest all on much larger bikes.
In fact he flew up Ouberg pass more comfortable and assured than most.
And easily kept pace on the long boring gravel from the top of Ouberg to Middelpos.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: BliknÍrs on April 01, 2018, 12:01:49 pm
I have been on trips with my 200cc Bushlander where everyone wanted to swop bikes when there was sand or rocks.
True the tar wasn't much fun but it was better than falling over every time there was sand.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Sabre on April 01, 2018, 12:32:40 pm
Why this discussion ? It has been proven, extensively in this forum, on TV and the internet, that the new 310GS is THE bike to have.......  :pot:  :ricky:  :lol8:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Dux on April 01, 2018, 12:36:46 pm
I started adventure riding in the 80's on an MTX200 , great bike , great journey's , over the years the bikes have gotten bigger up to 1000cc , but I can't say that the enjoyment factor has been any bigger , so I have now settled on a 600 as being about right for me , not overly heavy , not overly powerful but handles everything it needs to capably  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on April 01, 2018, 12:36:52 pm
Why this discussion ? It has been proven, extensively in this forum, on TV and the internet, that the new 310GS is THE bike to have.......  :pot:  :ricky:  :lol8:

 :laughing4: :laughing4:

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: armpump on April 01, 2018, 03:49:47 pm
One thing i have noticed is most guys who rate the smaller bikes are east and west cape based.

Ie  Don't need to cover distance quickly just to get to nice terrain
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Cracker on April 01, 2018, 06:55:55 pm
Good point.  :thumleft:

My next little jaunt to south Lesotho is a day's ride to get nearly there - on tar. And the same thing back. I'd rather be doing it on the 950 than my ex-650, never mind a little 250.

Tar and time-restraints is what governs my 'long' adventure trips. I am past riding long distances in discomfort and boredom.

 
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Rover on April 01, 2018, 07:30:21 pm
I find 250cc bikes are fine if you have a trailer.
They are dangerous and scary on the National roads because you get stuck at 110-120kmh and everything overtakes you SLOWLY
pushing you around in the wind.
No problem on a 600 though.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: BlueBull2007 on April 01, 2018, 11:45:47 pm
Good point.  :thumleft:

My next little jaunt to south Lesotho is a day's ride to get nearly there - on tar. And the same thing back. I'd rather be doing it on the 950 than my ex-650, never mind a little 250.

Tar and time-restraints is what governs my 'long' adventure trips. I am past riding long distances in discomfort and boredom.

Surely there are dirt routes to Lesotho? Okay maybe miss the bit past Soweto ;D
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Xpat on April 02, 2018, 12:38:13 am
One thing i have noticed is most guys who rate the smaller bikes are east and west cape based.

Ie  Don't need to cover distance quickly just to get to nice terrain

I am sorry armpump, but seriously how did you come to that conclusion - at least in the case of western cape? Can you please point me to where the good riding is in WC - especially the one that would call for small bike? Sure, there is plenty of scenic riding for people interested in smelling the roses, but when looking for more technical riding that would actually call for small bike as you seem to indicate - where should one go?

As far as I can see  - assuming one is in CT and has three quarters of his living space taken by salty water - there is Cederberg which is good for about one trip a year, Tankwa Karoo, that at least from what I have seen looks like dirt highways all over (i.e. territory for SUVs like yours) - yes there is Postal Road but from what I have heard it is about 20 km or so long and doable on big bike without too much sweat, then there is Outshooren and Die Hell and then Baviaans (strictly speaking EC). I have done some of them, not all (hence my question), and as far as I can tell they are all more or less dirt highways easily done in SUVs like yours. So not sure why one would bother with small bike (i.e. 690 and smaller)

It seems to me that within the comparable distances, Gauteng's central position offers incomparably better riding in my experience , especially for small bike and in terms of juicy technical riding. Lesotho, Limpopo, Botswana, Swaziland, Mozambique, Lowveld are easily within the distances one has to travel in WC to get to their - much less interesting from riding perspective (which one of them can compare for example to the vast public land called Lesotho?). And I can get easily to most of them on dirt farm roads if I choose to do so.

I have talked about this with JustBendIt on our last trip as I'm actually quite intrigued why there is this perception that WC has the best riding in SA, when I honestly cannot find a reason to go ride there, even though I am genuinely interested. And he confirmed that the closest good riding (apart from local riding places like Atlantis and Macassar) that one may find interesting on small bike is west coast sand and then Richtersveld about 600 km away - both of those in NOrthern Cape (not completely sure about the west coast sandy tracks).

So - genuine question here - where in WC is the good riding for a small bike that can keep me busy for let's say 5 day long trip? If there is one, I may head over there with my 690/500 for a peek, but so far I couldn't find anything that would come even close to some other areas much closer to Gauteng.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Offroadrider on April 02, 2018, 07:32:00 am
Xpat there's no reason to go any further than Camps bay beach to see the most amazing sights on any sunny weekend, there you would see the best riding in the country.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Xpat on April 02, 2018, 07:41:09 am
Xpat there's no reason to go any further than Camps bay beach to see the most amazing sights on any sunny weekend, there you would see the best riding in the country.

I'm assuming Camps bay is in CT - don't know the place. Do you need small bike for Camps bay riding to stay in the context of this thread and armpump's argument? Is there any interesting riding that would justify few days trip for me?

I'm not talking about pretty scenery, that can be done on any bike. I'm talking about riding that would call for small bike, i.e. with good technicality. CT is 1400 km from Joburg. In 1700 km I can be in Uis with Kaokoland & Damaraland at my disposal for 2 weeks of extra fat cream goodness. Or in 900 km I can have the whole Okavango delta for playground. Or 600 km or of some of the best sand on the planet in Mozambique. Or the whole of Lesotho, Swaziland, etc.

I'm not slagging CT here - sure it is very pretty - just quite keen to understand where the riding there is that can match or even come close to the above.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Offroadrider on April 02, 2018, 07:54:11 am
I have had a few different sized bikes but for the type of riding I do now in my "later" years my S10 works fine for me, my DR650 was great but became tedious on the long road which is the reason I would never consider a 250-310 kind of set up. I don't often ride extreme tech any more  so there is no need to have a smaller off road although at some stage I would like a 525 or something just in case.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Gee S on April 02, 2018, 09:13:12 am
Yes and no - I own a 650x challenge and a 1150 gs. The 1150 was bought about five years ago with 70000 on the clock- now 235000.
Define a long trip - 7 days Namibia to cover some ground and see some sights - 1150 - three weeks to explore-650.
4 day Klein Karoo - Rooiberg- Groenrivier and Baviaans - 1150
4 day Baviaans to explore-650
Cederberg - Wuppertal-Algeria-1150
Cederberg-Old Postal-Heuningvlei to the top of the pass-650.
Pillion- 1150
My luggage for both bikes is the same except that it weighs a bit more on the 650 due to tools and tubes.
1150 weight all up- about 260kg- 650 about 180kg - that is about one and a half pockets of cement.
That does not mean the 1150 is shit to ride - just to pick up so don't drop it.
So as the song goes - if you can't be with the one you love - love the one your with.
And yes the 650 tenere is heavy.



Snap! I also own the same pair of bikes, 1150 and X Challenge. Although I don't undertake many very long trips, a weekend bash is about the longest for me. But on the tar road there's very little difference in the speed I cruise at. 120, or 130 or 140 if I feel like it, that's fine on either bike apart from one thing. The bloody X Challenge seat!  :o

Since I can't afford a nice aftermarket replacement, I'm considering some padded cycling pants for a bit of relief. Anyone with experience or advice on that?
I use padded cycling pants on long trips and believe me they work.
Cominig back from the Koes rally last year the 690ís clutch started slipping so I decided to do tar from Askam via Upington to Roodepoort. I did it  in one day and without too much discomfort. The biggest irritation was not being able to go over 120 as the clurch would start slipping.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Cracker on April 02, 2018, 09:43:50 am
Good point.  :thumleft:

My next little jaunt to south Lesotho is a day's ride to get nearly there - on tar. And the same thing back. I'd rather be doing it on the 950 than my ex-650, never mind a little 250.

Tar and time-restraints is what governs my 'long' adventure trips. I am past riding long distances in discomfort and boredom.

Surely there are dirt routes to Lesotho? Okay maybe miss the bit past Soweto ;D

Yep, plenty dirt roads to all destinations, even to Soweto, but I've been around a while and have travelled all of them. Casting your net further requires different equipment, even if it's only to relieve the boredom. Speed is also fun.

Just like a fisherman and his rod - he can catch a fish in the surf or go to sea in a boat. Whatever he does he's still a fisherman with a rod, just a boat gives a better catch and a bit more fun.

I can't see myself selling my 950 for a smaller bike, not yet, I'm still enjoying it too much. If I want proper tech with adrenalin pumping, I whip out the 450 .............. and the trailer.

But it really boils down to - you ride what you got, you buy what you can afford, you ride with who you know and you ride when you've got time. If I had a 250 I'd still have a blast and would probably tell you all it's the best bike ever. Whatever you've got, allways is.

I do quite like those little 701s though ......... maybe one day  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 02, 2018, 12:10:10 pm
One thing i have noticed is most guys who rate the smaller bikes are east and west cape based.

Ie  Don't need to cover distance quickly just to get to nice terrain

Us Western Capies do actually need to cover quite a bit of distance to get to nice riding places. Not much within an hour or two from Cape Town.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 02, 2018, 12:12:30 pm
Good point.  :thumleft:

My next little jaunt to south Lesotho is a day's ride to get nearly there - on tar. And the same thing back. I'd rather be doing it on the 950 than my ex-650, never mind a little 250.

Tar and time-restraints is what governs my 'long' adventure trips. I am past riding long distances in discomfort and boredom.

It is a pity that time has to be such a constraint, because if there is one area where you MUST go on a small bike, it is Lesotho.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on April 02, 2018, 12:12:43 pm
One thing i have noticed is most guys who rate the smaller bikes are east and west cape based.

Ie  Don't need to cover distance quickly just to get to nice terrain

Us Western Capies do actually need to cover quite a bit of distance to get to nice riding places. Not much within an hour or two from Cape Town.

Moaning with a white bread under the arm there Danie.  We Valies have only heard of such nice riding places!   :-\

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: BliknÍrs on April 02, 2018, 12:34:59 pm
I am struggling to get my head around an "adventure" that only lasts a weekend.
Maybe some of us are mistaking adrenaline for adventure?
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Cracker on April 02, 2018, 12:49:19 pm
Long weekends, Blikners, are from Friday to Sunday - with 7 days in between  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: BliknÍrs on April 02, 2018, 12:58:46 pm
Gotcha  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Dux on April 02, 2018, 01:11:23 pm
One thing i have noticed is most guys who rate the smaller bikes are east and west cape based.

Ie  Don't need to cover distance quickly just to get to nice terrain

Us Western Capies do actually need to cover quite a bit of distance to get to nice riding places. Not much within an hour or two from Cape Town.

Moaning with a white bread under the arm there Danie.  We Valies have only heard of such nice riding places!   :-\

You are most welcome to come and find out for yourself , we haven't closed our borders yet  :biggrin:

But in the WC , there are lots of shorter interesting rides on the CT side of the mountains and even more over the mountain , in that case it involves riding about 100 to 150km to start getting to the interesting bits , but once there then the sky is the sky is the limit and you realise there are so many different routes to arrive at any particular destination and all good for their own particular reasons .
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: armpump on April 02, 2018, 01:25:16 pm
Xpat there's no reason to go any further than Camps bay beach to see the most amazing sights on any sunny weekend, there you would see the best riding in the country.

I'm assuming Camps bay is in CT - don't know the place. Do you need small bike for Camps bay riding to stay in the context of this thread and armpump's argument? Is there any interesting riding that would justify few days trip for me?

I'm not talking about pretty scenery, that can be done on any bike. I'm talking about riding that would call for small bike, i.e. with good technicality. CT is 1400 km from Joburg. In 1700 km I can be in Uis with Kaokoland & Damaraland at my disposal for 2 weeks of extra fat cream goodness. Or in 900 km I can have the whole Okavango delta for playground. Or 600 km or of some of the best sand on the planet in Mozambique. Or the whole of Lesotho, Swaziland, etc.

I'm not slagging CT here - sure it is very pretty - just quite keen to understand where the riding there is that can match or even come close to the above.


The riding he is talking about you dont even need a bike.

HAHAHA

Another thing for most of us is time constraints for a tour/adventure .

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Odd Dog on April 02, 2018, 03:47:15 pm
Just like DSTV, repeat, repeat and repeat and .............

Ride WETFYWT without trying to influence others, over my years there is not a class of bike I have not ridden AND I had a blast on all of them. I just don't get the need for wanting to influence what someone else should be riding.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: armpump on April 02, 2018, 04:37:22 pm

To me the journey now starts from my garage and back to it when done......no trailer ,van or bakkie involved
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on April 02, 2018, 07:26:54 pm
We are much too polite to talk about light versus heavy riders ...

I like!

You guys can talk all week, but I love going all over the place with my small R1200GS.  >:D
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 02, 2018, 07:34:07 pm
We are much too polite to talk about light versus heavy riders ...

I like!

You guys can talk all week, but I love going all over the place with my small R1200GS.  >:D

Wobbling bike? :pot:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on April 02, 2018, 08:10:05 pm
We are much too polite to talk about light versus heavy riders ...

I like!

You guys can talk all week, but I love going all over the place with my small R1200GS.  >:D

Wobbling bike? :pot:

I wobble.
My bike wobble.
And so we go wob wob wobbling along ....

I do not usually name my vehicles, but I have just decided to name my small R1200GS .... wait for it .... tadaaaa ....JELLY!  Do you like?

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: TheBear on April 02, 2018, 08:11:15 pm
delete double post

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 02, 2018, 08:38:02 pm
We are much too polite to talk about light versus heavy riders ...

I like!

You guys can talk all week, but I love going all over the place with my small R1200GS.  >:D

Wobbling bike? :pot:

I wobble.
My bike wobble.
And so we go wob wob wobbling along ....

I do not usually name my vehicles, but I have just decided to name my small R1200GS .... wait for it .... tadaaaa ....JELLY!  Do you like?

I like. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on April 04, 2018, 12:59:03 pm
I proved that you dont need a big budget or a big bike to do a tour. Picked up a KLE500 for R20k, spent about R6k on new tyres, chain, sprockets, break pads, luggage rack etc and did 14 relatively trouble free days in Namibia averaging 300/350km a day. Besides a battery issue and clutch switch everything went ok.

Im sure a R200k+ bike would be nice to tour on but its not always necessary, ride what you have got.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: blauth on April 04, 2018, 03:29:00 pm
I proved that you dont need a big budget or a big bike to do a tour. Picked up a KLE500 for R20k, spent about R6k on new tyres, chain, sprockets, break pads, luggage rack etc and did 14 relatively trouble free days in Namibia averaging 300/350km a day. Besides a battery issue and clutch switch everything went ok.

Im sure a R200k+ bike would be nice to tour on but its not always necessary, ride what you have got.

Exactly!! We overthink this "Which bike?" thing.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: WildWood on April 05, 2018, 09:02:14 am
That look of fear I often see in the eyes of big bike riders when you mention the next 50km is thick twee-spoor sand.

Or the crying over the repair bill when the big bike toppled over at walking speed.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: WildWood on April 05, 2018, 09:04:52 am
I've cartwheeled a 690 and risen home without issue. I've seen big bikes fall of sidestands and cost tens of thousands to repair.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Roxtar on April 05, 2018, 09:32:02 am
That look of fear I often see in the eyes of big bike riders when you mention the next 50km is thick twee-spoor sand.

Or the crying over the repair bill when the big bike toppled over at walking speed.

Reminds me of a friends GS LC which did exactly that.... toppled over in a rut, he could not catch it and the resultant fairing damage cost him R12k in repairs (mounting broke through fairing)....... no thanks!
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Rover on April 09, 2018, 08:24:06 pm
I fully agree

I have had a few big bikes ...the last one being a KTM 950 SE that I rode 50 000 km on in 5 years

There were many times and places that I was totally "overbiked" trying to wrestle with something that was 2 1/2 times my body weight ...and the SE is known as a relatively light big bike

Your pic shows a 660 Tenere vs 1200 Tenere ... even the 660 is big and heavy at a claimed 206 kg (http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_xt660_tenere%2014.htm)

I am now riding an "adventurised" KTM 500 ... a bike that starts out at a claimed wet weight of 114 kg (http://motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ktm/ktm_500%20XC-W%2014.htm) ... I have added a 20 litre fuel tank (good for 400 km range) and a Giant Loop Coyote bag for my luggage and the bike is now at 130 kg fully fuelled and loaded for a trip

You have to ride a smaller bike on a long trip to believe it for yourself how much more fun and less tiring it is ...smaller really is better ... and I keep telling my wife that
Did you make the seat more comfortable..if so..how?
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: armpump on April 10, 2018, 08:01:14 am
http://diymotorcycleseat.com/modify/shape-your-foam/

Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: armpump on April 10, 2018, 08:12:50 am
Corbin seat shape that a can be replicated  :)

(http://corbin.com/ktm/ktm5exc13.shtml#)

Image 8 at http://corbin.com/ktm/ktm5exc13.shtml
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: LouisL on April 10, 2018, 10:53:41 am
Took my Husky 650 on a tour a while ago and was surprised anew at how much enjoyment the small bike gives.

You go slower which gives you more time to "live" the ride.

The thing gave me 27.5 km/l vs the around 20km/l my bigger bikes give!

Had occasion to pick her up and in same circumstances the big bike would've stayed down.

Virtually no damage (only bent handlebar). Would almost certainly have had bigger damage if it was a big bike  going down (also to myself possibly).

So much more nimble.

You take less stuff which is always better.  (a lot of luggage actually disgust me - you are on a biketrip FFS)

Easier to mount/dismount.

Easier to push around / park.

I have also bought some big bikes but am sure that as I get older only the smaller ones will remain.
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: teebag on April 10, 2018, 11:26:31 am
Long in duration or distance?  http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=218937.msg3970826#msg3970826
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Sheepman on April 10, 2018, 08:05:02 pm
Read X Pat and mate's latest Nam RR and see why
Title: Re: Why to ride Small bike on a long Adventure trip
Post by: Jacobsroodt on April 24, 2018, 12:59:03 pm
Thanks Gents. Some food for thought...