Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 06:34:26 pm

Title: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 06:34:26 pm
I am busy with research on a very difficult topic.

When is someone a good adventure rider?

What I am trying to find out is the following - There are no podium finishes or winner's trophies in the sport of adventure bike riding and therefor very few measurable factors with which one could distinguish between an average and a good adventure rider. I am not even sure one could call it a sport instead of a culture.

What are the trademarks of someone who we would call a fantastic adventure rider and how much of a roll does his/her riding skills play in this.
What other factors would come into play?

Mechanical aptitude?
Stamina?
Preparation?
Attention to detail of the landscape, fauna and flora, people, cultures and all things new on an adventure ride?
Survival skills?
Fitness level?
All round nice person?
General knowledge?


The ability to think outside of the box (Eberhard)
To be able to adapt on short notice (Eberhard)
To be able to keep yourself company (Eberhard)
Patience (Eberhard)
To have a strong faith (Eberhard)
Packing Skills (Omninorm)
Aptitude for riding a variety of terrain and environments. (Omninorm)
Navigation skills. (Omninorm)
Positive and effective adaptability towards a group environment? (Sheepman)
an Adventuress SPIRIT (lowflya)


Please give me your opinions on the above, and feel free to add whatever you feel is relevant. I will add to the original post as suggestions is made.

I will reveal my full intention with this post later.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on March 29, 2018, 06:41:34 pm
The ability to think outside of the box
To be able to adapt on short notice
To be able to keep yourself company
Patience
To have a strong faith
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Omninorm on March 29, 2018, 06:42:11 pm
Add Packing skills :)
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 06:44:41 pm
The ability to think outside of the box
To be able to adapt on short notice
To be able to keep yourself company
Patience
To have a strong faith

Very true - added to the list
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 06:45:16 pm
Add Packing skills :)

Too true - added to the list
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Sheepman on March 29, 2018, 06:48:56 pm
If he / she is required to ride in a group environment, the ability to function effectively and accommodating within such an environment 
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 06:54:12 pm
If he / she is required to ride in a group environment, the ability to function effectively and accommodating within such an environment

In other words - positive and effective adaptability towards a group environment?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Sheepman on March 29, 2018, 06:55:28 pm
If he / she is required to ride in a group environment, the ability to function effectively and accommodating within such an environment

In other words - positive and effective adaptability towards a group environment?

Absolutely  :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Omninorm on March 29, 2018, 06:57:42 pm
Well...I think riding skills do play a huge part but it depends what we are talking about here.
One finds sometimes a person is a great rider in say dirt...but they suck in sand, and on tar they may be bad in traffic or nervous in those situations.
An adventure rider generally needs to ride a multitude of different terrain: Sand, Tar, City, Rocks, Dirt highways, then as well as all this - navigate well. The navigation goes from Pre Trip planning to actual navigation as well.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 07:01:42 pm
Well...I think riding skills do play a huge part but it depends what we are talking about here.
One finds sometimes a person is a great rider in say dirt...but they suck in sand, and on tar they may be bad in traffic or nervous in those situations.
An adventure rider generally needs to ride a multitude of different terrain: Sand, Tar, City, Rocks, Dirt highways, then as well as all this - navigate well. The navigation goes from Pre Trip planning to actual navigation as well.

Excellent post this - thanks. Can you sum it up, as my english does not allow it. Would love define riding skills as per your post.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Omninorm on March 29, 2018, 07:08:08 pm
Well...I think riding skills do play a huge part but it depends what we are talking about here.
One finds sometimes a person is a great rider in say dirt...but they suck in sand, and on tar they may be bad in traffic or nervous in those situations.
An adventure rider generally needs to ride a multitude of different terrain: Sand, Tar, City, Rocks, Dirt highways, then as well as all this - navigate well. The navigation goes from Pre Trip planning to actual navigation as well.

Excellent post this - thanks. Can you sum it up, as my english does not allow it. Would love define riding skills as per your post.

 :thumleft: I can try but I also suck.  ;D

Aptitude for riding a variety of terrain and environments.
Navigation skills.

??
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: lowflya on March 29, 2018, 07:18:28 pm
First and foremost .....an Adventurest SPIRIT, someone who goes off the beaten track and is prepared to put his "Whatever skills/  abilities" to the TEST. The ride report makes all adventure bike riders wish that they had the Guts/ time/ budget to do something similar. The rest of the attributes as already mentioned are a bonus. IMHO :pot:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on March 29, 2018, 07:23:22 pm
Well...I think riding skills do play a huge part but it depends what we are talking about here.
One finds sometimes a person is a great rider in say dirt...but they suck in sand, and on tar they may be bad in traffic or nervous in those situations.
An adventure rider generally needs to ride a multitude of different terrain: Sand, Tar, City, Rocks, Dirt highways, then as well as all this - navigate well. The navigation goes from Pre Trip planning to actual navigation as well.

With respect, but I view it differently. Or otherwise, I would put it differently:

Good riding skills can and normally are easily acquired along the way. Where you have the right aptitude you will see it through and learn and improve (obviously taking for granted that you have at least certain basics under control).  You never start off as a Valentino Rossi for instance, and normally those types don’t go on to become around the world adventure riders. This I have personally seen, where inexperienced riders, as in the absence of many miles behind them or professional training, but with grit, perseverance, common sense and determination achieved more and rode more rough roads than most riders who had gone on so called advanced and advanced advanced training courses. You must have IT in you.

Where there is a will, there is a way.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 07:27:31 pm
Will try to create a poll to clean up my mess.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: shanti on March 29, 2018, 07:32:41 pm
the ability to genuinely and happily interact with local people no matter their social standing
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on March 29, 2018, 07:35:39 pm
the ability to genuinely and happily interact with local people no matter their social standing

With or without payment involved? :peepwall:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: shanti on March 29, 2018, 07:37:11 pm
the ability to genuinely and happily interact with local people no matter their social standing

With or without payment involved? :peepwall:

dunno mate but personally I don't whip out my wallet when asking for directions - do you ?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on March 29, 2018, 07:43:16 pm
the ability to genuinely and happily interact with local people no matter their social standing

With or without payment involved? :peepwall:

dunno mate but personally I don't whip out my wallet when asking for directions - do you ?

Sorry, my mistake. I didn’t know you had asking for directions in mind.  What do you whip out then?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: m0lt3n on March 29, 2018, 07:45:19 pm
I like your initial summary already Hardy.

I think firstly it must be a person willing to leave his comfort zone. someone to actually go on trips with unknown factors.
and then also, someone with mechanical sympathy, while you should be pushing your bike you should also know where is the limits as it must take you home as well.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dux on March 29, 2018, 07:45:30 pm
Patience , especially when riding in groups of varying skill and speed levels .
Being level headed to be able to handle difficult or stressful situations without falling apart .
Riding skills as in being able to ride a wide variety of terrain , not necessary being the fastest at everything but being competent on all , and also being able to ride economically to conserve energy and maintain concentration .
Technical abilities would help , but more so being able to think outside the box to repair certain things , McGyver type mindset .
The bottom line is that an adventure rider needs to be be lots of things .
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 07:51:44 pm
I like your initial summary already Hardy.

I think firstly it must be a person willing to leave his comfort zone. someone to actually go on trips with unknown factors.
and then also, someone with mechanical sympathy, while you should be pushing your bike you should also know where is the limits as it must take you home as well.

Molten - You will not believe how many riders that went on trips with me had to load their bikes on the back of the bakkie after day three of a twelve day trip, because of exactly what you just mentioned. Mechanical sympathy (or the lack thereof) has been the achilis heel of may riders on our tours.
Excellent comment
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on March 29, 2018, 07:52:16 pm
Basic medical skills.  Tipies soos ‘makker hulp’ wat ons in die weermag gedoen het.

Respect for life - both his own and those around him.  This will keep him from doing silly things.

Unselfish.

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 07:54:26 pm
Basic medical skills.  Tipies soos ‘makker hulp’ wat ons in die weermag gedoen het.

Respect for life - both his own and those around him.  This will keep him from doing silly things.

Unselfish.

Good comment - added under general knowledge
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: shanti on March 29, 2018, 07:56:47 pm
the ability to genuinely and happily interact with local people no matter their social standing

With or without payment involved? :peepwall:

dunno mate but personally I don't whip out my wallet when asking for directions - do you ?

Sorry, my mistake. I didn’t know you had asking for directions in mind.  What do you whip out then?

Maybe I need to clarify for you , in all my journeys on various continents by bike  you need to interact with the locals , be it to find petrol , somewhere to stay , ask for help etc etc
Personally most of those interactions haven't involved money but rather a good attitude .
The same applies for border crossings , dealing with police road blocks  etc

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 08:01:18 pm
the ability to genuinely and happily interact with local people no matter their social standing

With or without payment involved? :peepwall:

dunno mate but personally I don't whip out my wallet when asking for directions - do you ?

Sorry, my mistake. I didn’t know you had asking for directions in mind.  What do you whip out then?

Maybe I need to clarify for you , in all my journeys on various continents by bike  you need to interact with the locals , be it to find petrol , somewhere to stay , ask for help etc etc
Personally most of those interactions haven't involved money but rather a good attitude .
The same applies for border crossings , dealing with police road blocks  etc

Shanti - a Bad attitude (I was tired and irritated after 9 days in the Sahara) cost me three days in jail in Bamako - Mali)
Spot on comment there
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on March 29, 2018, 08:05:00 pm
Maybe I need to clarify for you , in all my journeys on various continents by bike  you need to interact with the locals , be it to find petrol , somewhere to stay , ask for help etc etc
Personally most of those interactions haven't involved money but rather a good attitude .
The same applies for border crossings , dealing with police road blocks  etc

We are on the same page, my friend. I was pulling you chain (noted the little picture "peepwall" I attached?). Your comment is spot on and I support it, cause it hits true – that is why I did not refute it. I could not, so I pulled a joke. (it is precisely my experience as well) Peace?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 29, 2018, 08:05:38 pm
There are those adventure riders that will quite comfortably take a solo trip in remote areas, while others will only do it in groups, supported.

There is a huge difference here, as the rider willing to gooi ensame krokkodil needs to be very comfortable with his skill set, and have a lot of trust in his bike.

The groupie, while also fully on an adventure as far as he is concerned, actually often lacks both the above traits, hence feeling safer in a group with support.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: m0lt3n on March 29, 2018, 08:07:38 pm
looking at the poll options I at first thought it sucked, all of them are equally important.

but then thought of the woman that have done round Africa trips and I choose the following three options, as they will take care of all the others.
1. Adv spirit
2. vasbyt
3. communication skills
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: shanti on March 29, 2018, 08:08:03 pm
Maybe I need to clarify for you , in all my journeys on various continents by bike  you need to interact with the locals , be it to find petrol , somewhere to stay , ask for help etc etc
Personally most of those interactions haven't involved money but rather a good attitude .
The same applies for border crossings , dealing with police road blocks  etc

We are on the same page, my friend. I was pulling you chain (noted the little picture "peepwall" I attached?). Your comment is spot on and I support it, cause it hits true – that is why I did not refute it. I could not, so I pulled a joke. (it is precisely my experience as well) Peace?

Ha ha sure ;)  dont know if the  :peepwall: will work with a bad ass Mozambican cop looking for beer money 
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: KarooKid on March 29, 2018, 08:11:05 pm
You must be curious and have an adventurous spirit wanting to explore the unknown.

Yes riding ability is important but most world adventure riders started out without any experience. They were curious and wanted to step out of their comfort zone.

Be pasionate and inspiring. Be Michnus.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 08:19:15 pm
Guys and girls - please vote, it will help me to develop Quest - True Adventure into an even better event than 2017.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Fransw on March 29, 2018, 08:20:24 pm
Interesting thread Hardy!

I came across a lot of different adventure people, in the army and other. They all have one trade in common, they are very chilled and laidback!! They dont get stressed up for shit!! Forget about bike skills, toughness, paraat, etc..

Mike Horn is a good example! He's soft spoken very chilled and NOT the A-male type!
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Oubones on March 29, 2018, 08:22:58 pm
I do not consider myself a huge adventure rider as I have not had much opportunity, but I have always had the attitude of "I will get back, maybe bit damaged, but I will get out. Bike is disposable."
To do adventure, not only biking, you must have that " Go for it" attitude, and bugger the consequences.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 08:26:50 pm
Interesting thread Hardy!

I came across a lot of different adventure people, in the army and other. They all have one trade in common, they are very chilled and laidback!! They dont get stressed up for shit!! Forget about bike skills, toughness, paraat, etc..

Mike Horn is a good example! He's soft spoken very chilled and NOT the A-male type!

Thanks FransW

This topic (apart from it being very useful for Quest) interests me, as we all have different reasons for doing what we do. If I had a poll here to ask whom everone thought was fantastic adventure riders, it would be very interesting, as the criteria is subjective.
Fascinating, the fact that there are no prizes or prerequisite levels of skill required in our "sport".
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 08:33:07 pm
Patience , especially when riding in groups of varying skill and speed levels .
Being level headed to be able to handle difficult or stressful situations without falling apart .
Riding skills as in being able to ride a wide variety of terrain , not necessary being the fastest at everything but being competent on all , and also being able to ride economically to conserve energy and maintain concentration .
Technical abilities would help , but more so being able to think outside the box to repair certain things , McGyver type mindset .
The bottom line is that an adventure rider needs to be be lots of things .

Absolutely - couple that with an open mind when it comes to new cultures, cuisine, and all things outside your comfort zone, and you have the perfect adv rider
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dux on March 29, 2018, 08:39:06 pm
I think what gets most people is foreign cuisine , best is to eat something and query the contents afterwards  :biggrin:  , and patience to deal with foreigners , more so when there isn't a common language  :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 29, 2018, 08:42:02 pm
I think what gets most people is foreign cuisine , best is to eat something and query the contents afterwards  :biggrin:  , and patience to deal with foreigners , more so when there isn't a common language  :thumleft:

That's why I am a great people-dodger.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dux on March 29, 2018, 08:45:51 pm
What about curiosity ? I have always been curious to know what is out there so the only way to find out is to go there  :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 08:48:39 pm
There are those adventure riders that will quite comfortably take a solo trip in remote areas, while others will only do it in groups, supported.

There is a huge difference here, as the rider willing to gooi ensame krokkodil needs to be very comfortable with his skill set, and have a lot of trust in his bike.

The groupie, while also fully on an adventure as far as he is concerned, actually often lacks both the above traits, hence feeling safer in a group with support.

Was waiting for this post, as I think these skills might differentiate the level of adventure rider.
There is nothing wrong with riding in a group, but most riders would not wander alone into the unknown armed with only themselves.
I wish I had the mechanical skills to fix anything with very little, as this is an admirable skill (I rate it higher than many professions).
You would have to be really confident with your abilities,  to ride alone, in the areas we work.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: shanti on March 29, 2018, 08:49:48 pm
Some of the best 'adventure' riders I have come across where in the early nineties (1992) in India , people from all walks of life were landing up in a place called Manali waiting for the road to Leh to open up . The passes are snowed over and in summer the road opens for the journey through the Himalaya . Most of the people were on clapped out enfields bought on the cheap from previous travelers who had done the same journey . The riding knowledge was average to sometimes non-existent and the mechanical knowledge down to oil changes and on the side of the road head scratching . Most of the travelers myself included had our first 'adventure' riding experience the day we bought our second hand bikes in the  Paharganj in Delhi , you met them on the road dealing with the intricacy's of broken cables and the like ...   the spirit of these travelers is what I remember the most , there was no matching protective gear - jeans at the most , GPS was non-existent or insanely expensive, helmets hmm well .... I formed great friendships on the sides of the passes up north and the many chai shops through southern India . One thing still stays the same for me , the further into the wild and unknown the greater the connection with fellow bikers , I guess we all understand the exposure adventure biking brings and that is what defines it for me
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 08:50:53 pm
What about curiosity ? I have always been curious to know what is out there so the only way to find out is to go there  :thumleft:

I guess it would fall under adventure spirit?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 08:54:31 pm
Some of the best 'adventure' riders I have come across where in the early nineties (1992) in India , people from all walks of life were landing up in a place called Manali waiting for the road to Leh to open up . The passes are snowed over and in summer the road opens for the journey through the Himalaya . Most of the people were on clapped out enfields bought on the cheap from previous travelers who had done the same journey . The riding knowledge was average to sometimes non-existent and the mechanical knowledge down to oil changes and on the side of the road head scratching . Most of the travelers myself included had our first 'adventure' riding experience the day we bought our second hand bikes in the  Paharganj in Delhi , you met them on the road dealing with the intricacy's of broken cables and the like ...   the spirit of these travelers is what I remember the most , there was no matching protective gear - jeans at the most , GPS was non-existent or insanely expensive, helmets hmm well .... I formed great friendships on the sides of the passes up north and the many chai shops through southern India . One thing still stays the same for me , the further into the wild and unknown the greater the connection with fellow bikers , I guess we all understand the exposure adventure biking brings and that is what defines it for me

Sounds as if you had an interesting life so far Shanti :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dux on March 29, 2018, 08:58:39 pm
What about curiosity ? I have always been curious to know what is out there so the only way to find out is to go there  :thumleft:

I guess it would fall under adventure spirit?

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Sheepman on March 29, 2018, 09:08:16 pm
Now that its clear that you want to use the experiences of Quest 1 so as to improve on the next adventure, I would think that you are in a very good position to define exactly what is required to be a good adventure rider Hardy. You have seen the movie before with all the actors playing their parts.On the basic premise that all participants have a certain level of riding skills in varying terrain and can master elementary bike repairs and love what nature has to offer, it probably boils down to the persona of the individuals - individualistic personalities and  team players operating in one big team in unity.The management of that aspect alone is probably the most challenging for an organizer like yourself, 
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: detour on March 29, 2018, 09:31:04 pm
There are those adventure riders that will quite comfortably take a solo trip in remote areas, while others will only do it in groups, supported.

There is a huge difference here, as the rider willing to gooi ensame krokkodil needs to be very comfortable with his skill set, and have a lot of trust in his bike.

The groupie, while also fully on an adventure as far as he is concerned, actually often lacks both the above traits, hence feeling safer in a group with support.

Good point. To do serious adventure trips ‘solo’ also requires that the rider be willing to take a fair bit of risk.

IMO the rider(s) need to be self-sustainable for periods of time. Meaning the group carries camping equipment, water food etc for a few days on the bikes. As far as I’m concerned support vehicles are frowned upon when it comes to “true adventure”
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Cracker on March 29, 2018, 09:48:06 pm
the ability to genuinely and happily interact with local people no matter their social standing

No need to bother about the rest ............. this covers everything ......... and this is your lifeline when you need it ................. smile.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Jaakmh on March 29, 2018, 09:52:21 pm
Consistency(riding style, riding different terrain, in groups or alone), Patience (and Tolerance) and a good dose of Logical thinking (and reasoning) will get you through and back Home from any journey or adventure. IMHO
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kaboef on March 29, 2018, 10:10:36 pm
To be lekker.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: GRIM on March 29, 2018, 10:15:41 pm
Some of the best 'adventure' riders I have come across where in the early nineties (1992) in India , people from all walks of life were landing up in a place called Manali waiting for the road to Leh to open up . The passes are snowed over and in summer the road opens for the journey through the Himalaya . Most of the people were on clapped out enfields bought on the cheap from previous travelers who had done the same journey . The riding knowledge was average to sometimes non-existent and the mechanical knowledge down to oil changes and on the side of the road head scratching . Most of the travelers myself included had our first 'adventure' riding experience the day we bought our second hand bikes in the  Paharganj in Delhi , you met them on the road dealing with the intricacy's of broken cables and the like ...   the spirit of these travelers is what I remember the most , there was no matching protective gear - jeans at the most , GPS was non-existent or insanely expensive, helmets hmm well .... I formed great friendships on the sides of the passes up north and the many chai shops through southern India . One thing still stays the same for me , the further into the wild and unknown the greater the connection with fellow bikers , I guess we all understand the exposure adventure biking brings and that is what defines it for me

Sounds as if you had an interesting life so far Shanti :thumleft:

Ride report ?
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kamanya on March 29, 2018, 10:44:31 pm
I like much of them. Some others?

Have a purpose, a mission, an aimed for outcome, specific box to tick. (even if your purpose is to get lost or dwaal)
Respect for the environment and those that make their living from it. Noise, trash, tearing up the place, trespassing, leaving gates open, etc.
A ride report! Even if you don't publish it, at least take pictures! Memories fade and should be saved.
Smell the roses as often as possible. It's a privileged to be able to do this.
Stop and help other adventure bikers when you can.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 29, 2018, 10:52:06 pm
I like much of them. Some others?

Have a purpose, a mission, an aimed for outcome, specific box to tick. (even if your purpose is to get lost or dwaal)
Respect for the environment and those that make their living from it. Noise, trash, tearing up the place, trespassing, leaving gates open, etc.
A ride report! Even if you don't publish it, at least take pictures! Memories fade and should be saved.
Smell the roses as often as possible. It's a privileged to be able to do this.
Stop and help other adventure bikers when you can.

Very deep thoughts on the "soul and spirit" of the true adventurer. How high in the order do you rate riding skills Andrew?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on March 29, 2018, 10:58:46 pm
Years ago I found these two Frenchies (senior executive officers at major companies back in Paris) stuck in the middle of N(owhere)ata. All kitted out, coming down for the African experience. But they had a flat on the one bike (the other one is not in the picture) and they could not proceed. The valve was broken and Nata didn’t stock nuthin. They were stuck. I had a spare valve (I always carry a few and not the first time I had encountered such a scenario). I quickly fixed their problem and got two well earned French kisses.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: WildWood on March 29, 2018, 11:10:06 pm
A good rider is a guy that can ride the wheels off a bike.

We are not girl guides
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: uaedesertfox on March 29, 2018, 11:34:21 pm
a Great Adventure Rider ….

Goes fast when he can … and slow when he can’t….

Happily rides at the back of the pack …. but takes the lead when required… 8)

Into the dust we go .....
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kamanya on March 30, 2018, 02:16:37 am
I like much of them. Some others?

Have a purpose, a mission, an aimed for outcome, specific box to tick. (even if your purpose is to get lost or dwaal)
Respect for the environment and those that make their living from it. Noise, trash, tearing up the place, trespassing, leaving gates open, etc.
A ride report! Even if you don't publish it, at least take pictures! Memories fade and should be saved.
Smell the roses as often as possible. It's a privileged to be able to do this.
Stop and help other adventure bikers when you can.

Very deep thoughts on the "soul and spirit" of the true adventurer. How high in the order do you rate riding skills Andrew?

It's more important to recognise your level and be real about that. People who misrepresent or overestimate their ability to their group have caused much kak and tears. Being a little stretched is fine, but there's line beyond where is becomes dangerous or nasty. Women are far more honest about their skills and that then is easy to work with. Guys have an ego, it's an issue.

Sure having some skills is a bonus factor when going a little more off the beaten track. But, if skills were a prime pre-requisite for Adventure Riding, then it would have become a competitive sport.

So I rate awareness of limitations way higher than outright level of skills.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: McSack on March 30, 2018, 04:36:10 am
Being prepared to push yourself through situations outside of your comfort zone.
Almost actively looking for those experiences
...within reason of course
You must be able to manage discomfort

Openness acceptance to figuring things out. About your surroundings, other people, your machine and especially yourself

Being able to adapt when things don't go as planned... because often they won't
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: JustBendIt on March 30, 2018, 05:25:17 am
My choices in what I believe is their order of priority

1. Adventure Spirit - without an appetite for adventure and "get up 'n go gees" you are better off staying at home and watching Long Way Round on TV

2. Vasbyt - things don't always go according to plan ...trying to sleep in a muddy ditch somewhere is not always as fun as you thought it might be ...the reality is far different from the fantasy ... the glamorous pictures and stories from ride reports are often like what I call somebody's "Facebook Life" ... showing only all the good stuff and smiles. It does not help to complain or give up - if the experience does not kill you it will make you stronger.

3. Communication ability - on my recent trip to Kaokoland with Xpat and Straatkat we encountered many Himbas and Hereros who could not speak a word of English or Afrikaans ...we needed fuel, water, food and some rest - spending a few extra minutes opening up and exercising patience we were all soon old friends understanding each other perfectly by hand gestures and body language ...Xpat even left that village with 3 marriage proposals

And my thoughts on the others

Riding skill is important but knowing and accepting your limits is most important - adventure riding is not racing - there is no point exceeding your skill set and end up hurting yourself in some far off place or breaking your bike - things can and do happen in the blink of an eye - ride comfortably on an adventure ride and think

Mechanical ability - at the very least be able to fix your own punctures by yourself with your own tools and spares - does not really matter how long it takes you to do it. If the bike is maintained and prepped before an adventure ride then everything else should be sweet and accept that most major breakdowns cannot be fixed on the roadside with what you have with you (skills, tools and spares) - accept that you may need to be recovered and have the bike fixed elsewhere - and realise this quickly so that you can make arrangements to get out of breakdown spot to repair spot quickly and efficiently instead of wasting time standing around puzzling or attempting to fix something that is beyond you.

Mechanical sympathy - petrol engines need 3 things to perform properly ...fuel, lubrication and cooling - know where and how to check these levels are correct ...super critical on small engined bikes (like my KTM 500 that only holds 1,5l oil and less than 1l coolant) - when one of these 3 things is missing from the equation then shit happens. This comes down to basic prep too and knowing your machine. Listen for strange noises, clunks, knocks and try and identify where they are coming from - don't just twist the throttle more and hope they go away

Packing - you don't need the kitchen sink. Less is always more.

Navigation and general knowledge - have a good general idea of where you are going and how to get there without a GPS ... because if your GPS fails that should not mean the end of your ride. Know how to use your GPS - you would be surprised how many people do not know how to use them ...they only buy them and have them because they see others with them ... classic case of monkey see monkey do
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: dirt rat on March 30, 2018, 06:16:05 am
To my mind one of the most important aspects of riding is confidence.
The first aspect is self confidence - believing you can cope will make it so.
The second is confidence in your motorcycle - this is achieved by knowing the weak points of your particular bike ( they all have some) and either rectifying it or be prepared to deal with it on the trip.
Experience is what cements above and continuously improves confidence.
Meticulous bike maintenance is key - not only by the dealer but by yourself.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: blauth on March 30, 2018, 06:16:41 am
Well Hardy, this just difficult because the obvious answer is 'all of the above' but this is my personal experience...

Ego: I've ridden with lots of lads who have shit loads of bucks but no clue how to ride a bike. They then run off to BMW or KTM and buy a 990 or 800/1200 or something like that. It ALWAYS end in grumpyness on their part. If EGO could be left out of the equation, there would be a lot more happy adv riders out there....this is partly why you okes had such a joll on the CRF250 launch.

Maintenance: I've also ridden with okes who just don't maintain their bikes, have no clue how to repair a puncture (not that they could because they don't have the stuff with them). Even if you do know and have puncture repair kit, sometimes it can still be a bitch.

Time: If you're in a big group, it is like planning a work day, consider it only four hours long. If you're on your own, consider it 6 hours long. Never underestimate the negative power of procrastination.......time planning is difficult because you never know what's waiting for you on-route.

Planning: too detailed planning detracts from the adventure. My best trips are those where I have a destination and a timeframe and nothing else other than myself, my kit and a well prepared bike.

Safety: Safety planning is important ... But unfortunately I suck at that. I never know where the nearest hospital is but I've also very rarely experienced where there isn't someone to be found who is willing to help, especially farmers!!!

What Kamanya said above, respect.


Slow is slow. Fast is dangerous and consistency is progress.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 06:31:36 am
Now that its clear that you want to use the experiences of Quest 1 so as to improve on the next adventure, I would think that you are in a very good position to define exactly what is required to be a good adventure rider Hardy. You have seen the movie before with all the actors playing their parts.On the basic premise that all participants have a certain level of riding skills in varying terrain and can master elementary bike repairs and love what nature has to offer, it probably boils down to the persona of the individuals - individualistic personalities and  team players operating in one big team in unity.The management of that aspect alone is probably the most challenging for an organizer like yourself,
[/quote

It becomes very difficult if you are presented with 20 fantastic natural born leaders, all riding in perfect harmony.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 06:39:41 am
There are those adventure riders that will quite comfortably take a solo trip in remote areas, while others will only do it in groups, supported.

There is a huge difference here, as the rider willing to gooi ensame krokkodil needs to be very comfortable with his skill set, and have a lot of trust in his bike.

The groupie, while also fully on an adventure as far as he is concerned, actually often lacks both the above traits, hence feeling safer in a group with support.

Good point. To do serious adventure trips ‘solo’ also requires that the rider be willing to take a fair bit of risk.

IMO the rider(s) need to be self-sustainable for periods of time. Meaning the group carries camping equipment, water food etc for a few days on the bikes. As far as I’m concerned support vehicles are frowned upon when it comes to “true adventure”

I hear you. Knowing that things can go wrong, and that things probably will, also points to someone being responsible. I do believe people need to get the "no - back up allowed" thing off their shoulders.
Max the Panda and co had the adventure of a lifetime in Northern Namibia - and it still took a helicopter, a Land Cruiser and serious good fortune to complete their journey. If you ask Ian now, if he would do things a little different, his answer might just surprise you.

Eating and sleeping well also contributes to a more enjoyable adventure.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 06:41:42 am
I like much of them. Some others?

Have a purpose, a mission, an aimed for outcome, specific box to tick. (even if your purpose is to get lost or dwaal)
Respect for the environment and those that make their living from it. Noise, trash, tearing up the place, trespassing, leaving gates open, etc.
A ride report! Even if you don't publish it, at least take pictures! Memories fade and should be saved.
Smell the roses as often as possible. It's a privileged to be able to do this.
Stop and help other adventure bikers when you can.

Very deep thoughts on the "soul and spirit" of the true adventurer. How high in the order do you rate riding skills Andrew?

It's more important to recognise your level and be real about that. People who misrepresent or overestimate their ability to their group have caused much kak and tears. Being a little stretched is fine, but there's line beyond where is becomes dangerous or nasty. Women are far more honest about their skills and that then is easy to work with. Guys have an ego, it's an issue.

Sure having some skills is a bonus factor when going a little more off the beaten track. But, if skills were a prime pre-requisite for Adventure Riding, then it would have become a competitive sport.

So I rate awareness of limitations way higher than outright level of skills.

Fully agree
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: blauth on March 30, 2018, 06:46:02 am
I like much of them. Some others?

Have a purpose, a mission, an aimed for outcome, specific box to tick. (even if your purpose is to get lost or dwaal)
Respect for the environment and those that make their living from it. Noise, trash, tearing up the place, trespassing, leaving gates open, etc.
A ride report! Even if you don't publish it, at least take pictures! Memories fade and should be saved.
Smell the roses as often as possible. It's a privileged to be able to do this.
Stop and help other adventure bikers when you can.

Very deep thoughts on the "soul and spirit" of the true adventurer. How high in the order do you rate riding skills Andrew?

It's more important to recognise your level and be real about that. People who misrepresent or overestimate their ability to their group have caused much kak and tears. Being a little stretched is fine, but there's line beyond where is becomes dangerous or nasty. Women are far more honest about their skills and that then is easy to work with. Guys have an ego, it's an issue.

Sure having some skills is a bonus factor when going a little more off the beaten track. But, if skills were a prime pre-requisite for Adventure Riding, then it would have become a competitive sport.

So I rate awareness of limitations way higher than outright level of skills.

Yup, been on many long rides where a newer rider who acknowledges their skills are limited comes out at the end of a single weekend, a good rider. It's incredible how much a person can up their skill level in a single ride.....if they survive long enough... ;D
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:01:24 am
Being prepared to push yourself through situations outside of your comfort zone.
Almost actively looking for those experiences
...within reason of course
You must be able to manage discomfort

Openness acceptance to figuring things out. About your surroundings, other people, your machine and especially yourself

Being able to adapt when things don't go as planned... because often they won't

Says the guy who took the sand monster head on with a 230kg bike and bitch slapped the consequences  :imaposer:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:02:48 am
My choices in what I believe is their order of priority

1. Adventure Spirit - without an appetite for adventure and "get up 'n go gees" you are better off staying at home and watching Long Way Round on TV

2. Vasbyt - things don't always go according to plan ...trying to sleep in a muddy ditch somewhere is not always as fun as you thought it might be ...the reality is far different from the fantasy ... the glamorous pictures and stories from ride reports are often like what I call somebody's "Facebook Life" ... showing only all the good stuff and smiles. It does not help to complain or give up - if the experience does not kill you it will make you stronger.

3. Communication ability - on my recent trip to Kaokoland with Xpat and Straatkat we encountered many Himbas and Hereros who could not speak a word of English or Afrikaans ...we needed fuel, water, food and some rest - spending a few extra minutes opening up and exercising patience we were all soon old friends understanding each other perfectly by hand gestures and body language ...Xpat even left that village with 3 marriage proposals

And my thoughts on the others

Riding skill is important but knowing and accepting your limits is most important - adventure riding is not racing - there is no point exceeding your skill set and end up hurting yourself in some far off place or breaking your bike - things can and do happen in the blink of an eye - ride comfortably on an adventure ride and think

Mechanical ability - at the very least be able to fix your own punctures by yourself with your own tools and spares - does not really matter how long it takes you to do it. If the bike is maintained and prepped before an adventure ride then everything else should be sweet and accept that most major breakdowns cannot be fixed on the roadside with what you have with you (skills, tools and spares) - accept that you may need to be recovered and have the bike fixed elsewhere - and realise this quickly so that you can make arrangements to get out of breakdown spot to repair spot quickly and efficiently instead of wasting time standing around puzzling or attempting to fix something that is beyond you.

Mechanical sympathy - petrol engines need 3 things to perform properly ...fuel, lubrication and cooling - know where and how to check these levels are correct ...super critical on small engined bikes (like my KTM 500 that only holds 1,5l oil and less than 1l coolant) - when one of these 3 things is missing from the equation then shit happens. This comes down to basic prep too and knowing your machine. Listen for strange noises, clunks, knocks and try and identify where they are coming from - don't just twist the throttle more and hope they go away

Packing - you don't need the kitchen sink. Less is always more.

Navigation and general knowledge - have a good general idea of where you are going and how to get there without a GPS ... because if your GPS fails that should not mean the end of your ride. Know how to use your GPS - you would be surprised how many people do not know how to use them ...they only buy them and have them because they see others with them ... classic case of monkey see monkey do

Good comments  - How was Northern Namibia Justin?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:05:47 am
Well Hardy, this just difficult because the obvious answer is 'all of the above' but this is my personal experience...

Ego: I've ridden with lots of lads who have shit loads of bucks but no clue how to ride a bike. They then run off to BMW or KTM and buy a 990 or 800/1200 or something like that. It ALWAYS end in grumpyness on their part. If EGO could be left out of the equation, there would be a lot more happy adv riders out there....this is partly why you okes had such a joll on the CRF250 launch.

Maintenance: I've also ridden with okes who just don't maintain their bikes, have no clue how to repair a puncture (not that they could because they don't have the stuff with them). Even if you do know and have puncture repair kit, sometimes it can still be a bitch.

Time: If you're in a big group, it is like planning a work day, consider it only four hours long. If you're on your own, consider it 6 hours long. Never underestimate the negative power of procrastination.......time planning is difficult because you never know what's waiting for you on-route.

Planning: too detailed planning detracts from the adventure. My best trips are those where I have a destination and a timeframe and nothing else other than myself, my kit and a well prepared bike.

Safety: Safety planning is important ... But unfortunately I suck at that. I never know where the nearest hospital is but I've also very rarely experienced where there isn't someone to be found who is willing to help, especially farmers!!!

What Kamanya said above, respect.


Slow is slow. Fast is dangerous and consistency is progress.

The ego thing - Many friendships and many trips ended badly because of this.
I guess that is why adventure riders in general are very particular about choosing riding companions.

Good points Barry.

Quick question - Do you have issue with back up, if the trip is cross border?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:10:20 am
To my mind one of the most important aspects of riding is confidence.
The first aspect is self confidence - believing you can cope will make it so.
The second is confidence in your motorcycle - this is achieved by knowing the weak points of your particular bike ( they all have some) and either rectifying it or be prepared to deal with it on the trip.
Experience is what cements above and continuously improves confidence.
Meticulous bike maintenance is key - not only by the dealer but by yourself.

Very true DR.
I have also ridden with a few people that I had to assist in fixing a puncture for the first time in their lives, which was cause for alarm at that point. Later on I realised that it was a big step for them, and today, they probably assist others too.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: detour on March 30, 2018, 07:14:22 am
There are those adventure riders that will quite comfortably take a solo trip in remote areas, while others will only do it in groups, supported.

There is a huge difference here, as the rider willing to gooi ensame krokkodil needs to be very comfortable with his skill set, and have a lot of trust in his bike.

The groupie, while also fully on an adventure as far as he is concerned, actually often lacks both the above traits, hence feeling safer in a group with support.

Good point. To do serious adventure trips ‘solo’ also requires that the rider be willing to take a fair bit of risk.

IMO the rider(s) need to be self-sustainable for periods of time. Meaning the group carries camping equipment, water food etc for a few days on the bikes. As far as I’m concerned support vehicles are frowned upon when it comes to “true adventure”

I hear you. Knowing that things can go wrong, and that things probably will, also points to someone being responsible. I do believe people need to get the "no - back up allowed" thing off their shoulders.
Max the Panda and co had the adventure of a lifetime in Northern Namibia - and it still took a helicopter, a Land Cruiser and serious good fortune to complete their journey. If you ask Ian now, if he would do things a little different, his answer might just surprise you.

Eating and sleeping well also contributes to a more enjoyable adventure.

I get why it is attractive to eat better, sleep better, ride with less weight on the bike etc.

From a capability point of view, all riders who do unsupported adventures can do supported adventures. But not all riders who do supported adventures can do unsupported adventures.

To do unsupported adventure you need better riding skills, better packing skills, better mechanical skills. You need to be better at self preservation and bike preservation due to increased risk.

I’m not saying it isn’t an adventure when you take a support vehicle. However I do believe it is more adventurous to go unsupported.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:23:23 am
Detour

I fully understand the sentiments. I also think it ruins everone's trip if one of the riders/friends have to abandon the trip because of a broken down bike, or any factor that could have been prevented with well planned back up.
In our group each rider plays a roll.
I know it will ruin my trip if one of our group has to turn back.
Well planned back up does not have to infringe on the "trueness" of the adventure. It should be there when you need it, and out of sight when you don't.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: dirt rat on March 30, 2018, 07:25:33 am
I admit that I am a lousy group rider - I hate routine on a trip - even having to stick to a planned route or destination irritates me - I never book accommodation.
Agree that ego causes much to detract from group riding.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Welsh on March 30, 2018, 07:27:08 am
A good measure of Crazy helps.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:36:10 am
A good measure of Crazy helps.

Ahhh Welsh - exactly.

I have been blessed in meeting many Crazies in my life. I also think every riding group should have at least one.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Welsh on March 30, 2018, 07:46:53 am
A good measure of Crazy helps.

Ahhh Welsh - exactly.

I have been blessed in meeting many Crazies in my life. I also think every riding group should have at least one.
as Leonard Cohen said everything is cracked, that’s how the light gets in.  8)
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:48:01 am
Mandatory question

Are you guys interested in learning about the areas you ride in?

During Quest boot camp I tested the general knowledge of the contestants on their knowledge of the African continent.
There are 55 countries and obviously 55 capitals in Africa which results in a test, counting for a possible 110 points.
The average score was 22 out of 110.

These guys were not stupid people though - not at all. I then realised that it did not interest them, which I found interesting.
I am sure they would have named a lot more states and capitals of the US if they were tasked to do it.
Why is this?

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Casting from Turd on March 30, 2018, 07:51:02 am
I always ride at 80% of my ability. That way I have a slim margin of getting out of kak if it wants to hit the fan.

Never try and keep up with better and faster riders. I just tjune them to order my coffee when they get  to the next stop. \\\\
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:52:38 am
I always ride at 80% of my ability. That way I have a slim margin of getting out of kak if it wants to hit the fan.

Never try and keep up with better and faster riders. I just tjune them to order my coffee when they get  to the next stop. \\\\

Coffee he said  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: blauth on March 30, 2018, 08:06:36 am
Mandatory question

Are you guys interested in learning about the areas you ride in?

During Quest boot camp I tested the general knowledge of the contestants on their knowledge of the African continent.
There are 55 countries and obviously 55 capitals in Africa which results in a test, counting for a possible 110 points.
The average score was 22 out of 110.

These guys were not stupid people though - not at all. I then realised that it did not interest them, which I found interesting.
I am sure they would have named a lot more states and capitals of the US if they were tasked to do it.
Why is this?

I learn what we have an interest in or have a need for.   Knowing what the capital city of Algeria is adds no value to me however, if I'm going there, I'll know.

In the finite time available to me, I read other non-adventure related topics (politics, macro economics, technical articles). Not having geographical general knowledge doesn't detract from being a good adventure rider in my opinion.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 08:06:49 am
The following subjects were given to the contestants: They had to research it, and present to co-contestants for 15 minutes. They were judged and scored on their presentations.

Marienfluss and the Fairy Circles
Kunene River
Ngorongoro Crater
Madagascar
The Okapi and the Gerenuk
Honda Motorcycle history
Mapangubwe
The Nile river
Fish River Canyon
The Welwitchia
The Great Rift Valley
Kilimanjaro
The Oryx of Namibia
The Giant Eland of Central Africa
The Sahara
The Mighty Zambezi
Lake Malawi
Pyramids of Giza
Lake Victoria

Will these subjects interest you?
If not - please tell why


Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Welsh on March 30, 2018, 08:06:56 am
A strong liver. 😎
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Welsh on March 30, 2018, 08:09:41 am
The following subjects were given to the contestants: They had to research it, and present to co-contestants for 15 minutes. They were judged and scored on their presentations.

Marienfluss and the Fairy Circles
Kunene River
Ngorongoro Crater
Madagascar
The Okapi and the Gerenuk
Honda Motorcycle history
Mapangubwe
The Nile river
Fish River Canyon
The Welwitchia
The Great Rift Valley
Kilimanjaro
The Oryx of Namibia
The Giant Eland of Central Africa
The Sahara
The Mighty Zambezi
Lake Malawi
Pyramids of Giza
Lake Victoria

Will these subjects interest you?
If not - please tell why
to clarify, do you pick one and present that one not a generalization? If so Yes Great. 😎
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 08:12:40 am
Mandatory question

Are you guys interested in learning about the areas you ride in?

During Quest boot camp I tested the general knowledge of the contestants on their knowledge of the African continent.
There are 55 countries and obviously 55 capitals in Africa which results in a test, counting for a possible 110 points.
The average score was 22 out of 110.

These guys were not stupid people though - not at all. I then realised that it did not interest them, which I found interesting.
I am sure they would have named a lot more states and capitals of the US if they were tasked to do it.
Why is this?

I learn what we have an interest in or have a need for.   Knowing what the capital city of Algeria is adds no value to me however, if I'm going there, I'll know.

In the finite time available to me, I read other non-adventure related topics (politics, macro economics, technical articles). Not having geographical general knowledge doesn't detract from being a good adventure rider in my opinion.

Barry - Thanks for your honest answer.
Can you tell me how you view adventure riding? Must it be exploring? Or does a short stint through De Wildt also constitute adventure riding?
You are helping me much more than you might think here.

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 08:16:11 am
The following subjects were given to the contestants: They had to research it, and present to co-contestants for 15 minutes. They were judged and scored on their presentations.

Marienfluss and the Fairy Circles
Kunene River
Ngorongoro Crater
Madagascar
The Okapi and the Gerenuk
Honda Motorcycle history
Mapangubwe
The Nile river
Fish River Canyon
The Welwitchia
The Great Rift Valley
Kilimanjaro
The Oryx of Namibia
The Giant Eland of Central Africa
The Sahara
The Mighty Zambezi
Lake Malawi
Pyramids of Giza
Lake Victoria

Will these subjects interest you?
If not - please tell why
to clarify, do you pick one and present that one not a generalization? If so Yes Great. 😎

Welsh - Not sure I understand your question? I issued the topics to the contestants (They had no choice in the matter) They received the topic prior to Quest, and had ample time to research. They were told that that they are going to present an hour before they presented.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Welsh on March 30, 2018, 08:18:34 am
The following subjects were given to the contestants: They had to research it, and present to co-contestants for 15 minutes. They were judged and scored on their presentations.

Marienfluss and the Fairy Circles
Kunene River
Ngorongoro Crater
Madagascar
The Okapi and the Gerenuk
Honda Motorcycle history
Mapangubwe
The Nile river
Fish River Canyon
The Welwitchia
The Great Rift Valley
Kilimanjaro
The Oryx of Namibia
The Giant Eland of Central Africa
The Sahara
The Mighty Zambezi
Lake Malawi
Pyramids of Giza
Lake Victoria

Will these subjects interest you?
If not - please tell why
to clarify, do you pick one and present that one not a generalization? If so Yes Great. 😎

Welsh - Not sure I understand your question? I issued the topics to the contestants (They had no choice in the matter) They received the topic prior to Quest, and had ample time to research. They were told that that they are going to present an hour before they presented.
I misunderstood I have got you now, 😎
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on March 30, 2018, 08:53:19 am
When I go to other countries I do take the trouble to obtain certain particular knowledge beforehand:

What currency do they use
Do I require a visa beforehand
Do I require certain medical certificates / vaccinations
Is my licence accepted (regardless, I obtain an international drivers license)
Certain basics as to their traffic rules relating to motorcycles (are reflective vests obligatory, etc.)
Any requirements they may have as to the bringing in of a motorcycle (e.g. a carnet)

Most other information about the country I already have or I pick up as I go along.

I make sure beforehand that my passport is in order.
I take with all applicable documentation (originals and certified copies).
I take trouble to protect all my documentation against water, possible mishandling, etc.
I take lots and lots of cash with, various currencies and spread it around the bike and myself.
In my wallet I only keep what I expect to use at the next two or three stops.
I keep my documentation in very easy to reach compartments.
I always keep cigarettes on me and am quick to offer a smoke.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Gérrard on March 30, 2018, 09:00:04 am
The problem with definitions, is  if you don't comply, did you fail ? I'm on a trip, there is lots of sand and I fall a lot... was the trip a failure as an adventure.

So I just ride, not asking what makes it a good adventure ride. If I get home safe it was a good ride.

Like a pilot... every landing you can walk away from is a good one.

So my take on being an 'adventure rider'... just be one, don't put yourself in a box against others.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Robin Brown on March 30, 2018, 09:17:03 am
Simple. Just watch on youtube:
Top 5 reasons to ride small motorcycle on a long adventure trip.
Answers all the questions
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 09:17:42 am
The problem with definitions, is  if you don't comply, did you fail ? I'm on a trip, there is lots of sand and I fall a lot... was the trip a failure as an adventure.

So I just ride, not asking what makes it a good adventure ride. If I get home safe it was a good ride.

Like a pilot... every landing you can walk away from is a good one.

So my take on being an 'adventure rider'... just be one, don't put yourself in a box against others.

Somehow I think that a couple of falls keep the ego intact and usually makes for a good story around the campfire. All part of the adventure and definitely not an indicator of a successful or failed trip.

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 09:22:14 am
Just had a long conversation with Justbendit about his recent trip to Northern Namibia with XPAT and Straatkat.

Cant wait for their ride report.

Interesting to hear his take on back up (they went without it).
I will ask him to comment on the matter in his own time.

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 09:24:44 am
When I go to other countries I do take the trouble to obtain certain particular knowledge beforehand:

What currency do they use
Do I require a visa beforehand
Do I require certain medical certificates / vaccinations
Is my licence accepted (regardless, I obtain an international drivers license)
Certain basics as to their traffic rules relating to motorcycles (are reflective vests obligatory, etc.)
Any requirements they may have as to the bringing in of a motorcycle (e.g. a carnet)

Most other information about the country I already have or I pick up as I go along.

I make sure beforehand that my passport is in order.
I take with all applicable documentation (originals and certified copies).
I take trouble to protect all my documentation against water, possible mishandling, etc.
I take lots and lots of cash with, various currencies and spread it around the bike and myself.
In my wallet I only keep what I expect to use at the next two or three stops.
I keep my documentation in very easy to reach compartments.
I always keep cigarettes on me and am quick to offer a smoke.

This usually results in a trip with much less trouble.  :deal:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: corne.l on March 30, 2018, 09:45:06 am
Those topice sure sound like a nice buiket list.

As was mentioned not a lot can name the countries and their capitals. But it boils down to situational awareness. If you going there you would know.

To me adventure is that ... know where to start ...maybe have an idea where you want to finish.everything inbetween is the adveture.
don't be a fussy eater, dont be a fussy sleeper, but know the difference between diahorrea and a good plate of food.

a technical aptitude goes a long way. Espcially if you a a loner. but in a group if the group acts almost like a single organism, that could make it stronger. one that cooks, one thats the mechanic etc etc.

Communication has been mentioned as well ... here with not just the words that spill out you mouth. the body talks too!!! and be sure that you do not say something in a tone, or use vocaulary that might piss off someone.

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dwerg on March 30, 2018, 03:56:07 pm
On backup and guided rides, my job/lifestyle doesn’t leave much time for planning and researching trips. I either go on guided rides or I have to wing it on the day. Being in IT operations, I also try to maximize the limited time I get to be offline. I’m sure some don’t see that as ‘adventure’ but it’s just my reality. I’d love to use my next sabatical for an unplanned, remote solo trip
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 30, 2018, 06:59:15 pm
On backup and guided rides, my job/lifestyle doesn’t leave much time for planning and researching trips. I either go on guided rides or I have to wing it on the day. Being in IT operations, I also try to maximize the limited time I get to be offline. I’m sure some don’t see that as ‘adventure’ but it’s just my reality. I’d love to use my next sabatical for an unplanned, remote solo trip

A solo trip with me? :peepwall:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 07:38:44 pm
On backup and guided rides, my job/lifestyle doesn’t leave much time for planning and researching trips. I either go on guided rides or I have to wing it on the day. Being in IT operations, I also try to maximize the limited time I get to be offline. I’m sure some don’t see that as ‘adventure’ but it’s just my reality. I’d love to use my next sabatical for an unplanned, remote solo trip

During June, after the day's ride, when you park off in your comfortable camping chair, your feet resting on your stretcher, with an ice cold beer in your hand, next to the Hoarusib riverbed in Purros, I will take the time to remind you off the true adventurers, with none of the above.

You see Dwerg - Ask Oom Danie how true his adventure felt when he crashed the other day, and in much how kak he would have been if there wasn't another rider or back up to assist him. We would have had to change his name to Two Stroke One Leg Dan
a Good back up team should only be seen when needed, and when you guys get to camp. This logistical back up affords riders the freedom to enjoy their bikes to the fullest, without the burden of extra fuel/water/food/spares/tools on your bike.

Nothing wrong with not going the Bear Grylls route
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 30, 2018, 07:52:59 pm
"Two-stroke one-leg Dan" :eek7: :eek7:

True, a good example of one moment of overestimating your skills, and I was lucky that the group could continue within an hour or so. It would have been terrible if this happened in

the Huarusib, and ending the trip for all. Vlak graf in die sand is maar al.

While I love solo trips, I find that the comforts are becoming more welcome as I get older, so I am changing my mind about supported trips.

The downside of supported trips, I have found, is that the guys offload a days stories and stress in the evenings over drinks and the peacefulness of nature is often not enjoyed.

There is also generally a difference in the calibre of rider in supported trips as opposed to solo or small groups.  The supported rider is more prone to not knowing how to fix punctures, etc, and

may also be less of a skilled rider. The support makes him/her feel safe.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 30, 2018, 08:28:01 pm
"Two-stroke one-leg Dan" :eek7: :eek7:

True, a good example of one moment of overestimating your skills, and I was lucky that the group could continue within an hour or so. It would have been terrible if this happened in

the Huarusib, and ending the trip for all. Vlak graf in die sand is maar al.

While I love solo trips, I find that the comforts are becoming more welcome as I get older, so I am changing my mind about supported trips.

The downside of supported trips, I have found, is that the guys offload a days stories and stress in the evenings over drinks and the peacefulness of nature is often not enjoyed.

There is also generally a difference in the calibre of rider in supported trips as opposed to solo or small groups.  The supported rider is more prone to not knowing how to fix punctures, etc, and

may also be less of a skilled rider. The support makes him/her feel safe.

There is a big difference between a solo trip through the Cederberg (and the luggage and requirements for two days), and the luggage and requirements for two weeks in another country. It is not easy to carry all the stuff that you need for a trip, and in most cases it will make your adventure less enjoyable as far as the bike and the enjoyment of riding it to it's potential goes.
People look at supported tours and think - someone from the crew in front and someone at the back, regulating the speed and the stops. Not true at all. 
I guess you guys will have to ask Noneking, Dwerg, PK, Trevo and a few others how they experienced a supported tour when they come back after the June trip.



Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Noneking on March 30, 2018, 09:29:33 pm
On backup and guided rides, my job/lifestyle doesn’t leave much time for planning and researching trips. I either go on guided rides or I have to wing it on the day. Being in IT operations, I also try to maximize the limited time I get to be offline. I’m sure some don’t see that as ‘adventure’ but it’s just my reality. I’d love to use my next sabatical for an unplanned, remote solo trip


My reality as well. Feels like I eat sleep and dream adventure biking, but in reality I spend  a few hours every weekend riding my bike in the beautiful Lowveld. Every now and then I spend a weekend riding in a new location with new challenges.

Spending two weeks with Hardy and his team in Namibia is a dream come true. Some might frown upon the idea of a supported adventure, but for me it makes perfect sense. I’m not a skilled rider and will have to rely heavily on the mechanical skills of others in the group. Not having to carry my luggage on the bike will surely add to my riding enjoyment?

Does this make it less of an adventure experience??? I doubt it. Looking forward to pushing boundaries and enjoying new experiences with new people. The perfect adventure in my book........
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on March 30, 2018, 09:58:03 pm
I agree that packing a motorcycle with enough stuff to be self-supportive for a week or more takes away something from the pleasures of riding a bike, since even the best bike will become something different

under such load.

Like you say Hardy, a supported tour on which you do not have to stick with the support vehicles can be a real pleasure.

Like on the Honda 250 rally launch, where that lovely bakkie with sweets-drawer would pull up, so welcome! :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 31, 2018, 05:56:45 am
Oom Danie

During 2008 I was part of a group of three that rode from Tunis to Algiers before we headed to Casablanca. After 7 days in Morocco, my riding buddies flew home. I then headed for Bamako in Mali where I was stationed. I spent 7 days and 6 evenings alone in the Sahara and enjoyed it very much. Probably one of the most memorable rides of my life.
If I have to be very honest though, I will tell you that I would have paid a lot of money to have had a stretcher, fridge, and fresh meat to my avail.
I am glad I did it the way I did, but will in future see to it that I have these things with me in a support vehicle, as it would not have taken away any of the enjoyment I had. In fact it would have made it better.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dwerg on March 31, 2018, 07:08:10 am
On backup and guided rides, my job/lifestyle doesn’t leave much time for planning and researching trips. I either go on guided rides or I have to wing it on the day. Being in IT operations, I also try to maximize the limited time I get to be offline. I’m sure some don’t see that as ‘adventure’ but it’s just my reality. I’d love to use my next sabatical for an unplanned, remote solo trip

A solo trip with me? :peepwall:

Dis mos die lekker van bike ry. Ten spyte van ons verskille het ons ‘n great ding in gemeen. Ek gaan enige dag saam met jou op ‘n trip  :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: ETS on March 31, 2018, 09:21:16 am
Wth these 3 guys i need for nothing-
Pieter Lourens aka Twister
Pieter Laubscher aka Losper
Stoffel Lombard aka Hinksding

these guys on a trip will do nearly anything....
ok ok there is only ONE thing they will not do. But hell that thing can be organised.
So- choose your mates and you cannot go wrong :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on March 31, 2018, 04:12:35 pm
Wth these 3 guys i need for nothing-
Pieter Lourens aka Twister
Pieter Laubscher aka Losper
Stoffel Lombard aka Hinksding

these guys on a trip will do nearly anything....
ok ok there is only ONE thing they will not do. But hell that thing can be organised.
So- choose your mates and you cannot go wrong :thumleft: :thumleft:

Hi ETS

I have not had the privilege of meeting Losper yet, but I have spent time with the other two and I fully agree with you.  :thumleft:
 
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: m0lt3n on April 01, 2018, 09:30:10 am
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 01, 2018, 09:34:22 am
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on April 01, 2018, 10:37:02 am
Totally disagree with the last two posts.  There is already a GS Challenge, there is enduro’s and there are rally’s.  If you want to test those specific skills, the platform is already created.

The Quest is something totally different, albeit a test of rider skill, bike ability and durability.  Although in competition format, it is so much more than that:  Quest - True Adventure is the full event name.  Many guys can ride a bike extremely well, but put all of the comments and suggestions together from this thread and you find an animal totally different from a skilled rider only.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kamanya on April 01, 2018, 11:30:28 am
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.

You clearly haven’t done a triathlon?

There aren’t teams in them.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 01, 2018, 11:39:56 am
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.

Molten & 2SD

I hear you and I fully understand the reasoning.

I will tell you what will be lost, if I change the dynamics of the competition though :

During boot camp, McSack dropped his bike in a rocky side slope, and with his typical bad luck, cracked the cylinder, or gearbox cover. (Can't remember) One of the instructors called me to tell me the bike is dead and that I can scrape McSack's name of the list.
McSack came to me after the test in the rocky slopes and apologised sincerely. After his apology he added "I guess I am going home, but I would like to thank you for the opportunity. . His words struck home, as I realised that there are only a very few adventurers out there that had the skills to look like a Tau, Kamanya or a Throttle Jockey on these big adventure bikes.
We chose McSack to go with us on Quest, and I doubt if there are ANY person that was on Quest, that would now, in hindsight, not have him with us any day of the week.
Grant Pentalow had a few spectacular falls, and came back with broken collarbones etc. But Grant Pentalow discovered who he really was, and came back with his head held high, and his pride intact.

Andrew Johnstone (Kamanya) was teamed with Philip Groenewald (Gryphh). Philip will tell you that he was as nervous about sand as McSack was. After 5 days of riding and help from the instructors, but more importantly, from his team mate, who makes sand riding look like childs play, Philip emerged as a very decent sand rider. To be able to see the self confidence shining out of him, as he came racing down the Khumib riverbed made me realise that we were onto something.

There are several incidents that made me thankful for the format of the competition, but I understand that you had to be there to understand it.

Molten - There is a whats app group for the Quest riders of which I am part, and I can tell you that now, today, seven months after Quest, the group is as busy as they were the day after Quest.
I look at the poll above and what I see is people not rating all out riding skills as high in the priority order as one would think.

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 01, 2018, 12:08:55 pm
This is probably a repeat of what someone else may have said on the thread, I could not read all today but all you need is an adventurous spirit and more importantly the 'get up and go! - Many people have the adventurous spirit but not the get up and go and will rather read adventure or watch related television programs.

If I and many others had to wait for money, the right bike or whatever; adventure specific to bikes would have never materialized for us.

One of the options above should have been 'the get up and go'
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: m0lt3n on April 01, 2018, 01:00:08 pm
Hardy I think there is something else to take into consideration here.

Please say how you would like the quest to be different from the GS trophy?

Reason for asking, this list is taking the direction of being willing and andventurous. Not much focus on skill. That makes for boring tv. The biggest let down of the gs trophy is all this focus they also put on doing team activities, problem solving or guessing the amount of bamboo's in a bush.
Is AT selling not the primary purpose of the quest? I believe the bikes and riders should be tested to the limit. To the extend that these people come afterwards and sell their invincible 990's (I ride an 1190 and get reminded of how awesome the 990 is frequently) and that you know where these bikes were and hear there was no mechanical failures. Thats how you get someone like me punting the AT. Thats how hou get viewers, shares and sales

I totally agree, make the challenge/quest focus on riderskills and bike ability.

If you want team activities, enter a triathlon.

Molten & 2SD

I hear you and I fully understand the reasoning.

I will tell you what will be lost, if I change the dynamics of the competition though :

During boot camp, McSack dropped his bike in a rocky side slope, and with his typical bad luck, cracked the cylinder, or gearbox cover. (Can't remember) One of the instructors called me to tell me the bike is dead and that I can scrape McSack's name of the list.
McSack came to me after the test in the rocky slopes and apologised sincerely. After his apology he added "I guess I am going home, but I would like to thank you for the opportunity. . His words struck home, as I realised that there are only a very few adventurers out there that had the skills to look like a Tau, Kamanya or a Throttle Jockey on these big adventure bikes.
We chose McSack to go with us on Quest, and I doubt if there are ANY person that was on Quest, that would now, in hindsight, not have him with us any day of the week.
Grant Pentalow had a few spectacular falls, and came back with broken collarbones etc. But Grant Pentalow discovered who he really was, and came back with his head held high, and his pride intact.

Andrew Johnstone (Kamanya) was teamed with Philip Groenewald (Gryphh). Philip will tell you that he was as nervous about sand as McSack was. After 5 days of riding and help from the instructors, but more importantly, from his team mate, who makes sand riding look like childs play, Philip emerged as a very decent sand rider. To be able to see the self confidence shining out of him, as he came racing down the Khumib riverbed made me realise that we were onto something.

There are several incidents that made me thankful for the format of the competition, but I understand that you had to be there to understand it.

Molten - There is a whats app group for the Quest riders of which I am part, and I can tell you that now, today, seven months after Quest, the group is as busy as they were the day after Quest.
I look at the poll above and what I see is people not rating all out riding skills as high in the priority order as one would think.



But I agree with your format! People falling makes for good tv!
And I also did not use one of my votes for rider skill. Did not know though that it was a ticklist for Quest. Which comes back to the question, what is the purpose of Quest? The event is sponsored and I am sure the sponsors have certain expectations?

KTMKobus do you know the GS trophy? If it was purely based on rider skill our guys would have wipped them. But instead, as mentioned, one of the challenges was guessing the amount of Bamboo in a Bamboo bush. There was also navigation challenges which was boring but I can understand it being necessary.

An inexperienced 20yo wont get all excited to go buy an AT after watching a reality show where rider skills, bike challenges and such is not the centrepoint off the show, showing off the bike. This was also not the priority with the previous Quest. But, saying this I do believe Quest 1 did succeed tbough. It succeeded to a certain extend in my eyes because of the reviews I read here and on Facebook after the show. But the respected Wilddogs have been used now, the people like me reached. New people wont be reached using the same method again.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on April 01, 2018, 02:38:32 pm
m0lt3n, I find your comments very interesting. :thumleft:

To answer your question: I do follow and understand the GS Trophy yes.  I even contemplated participating at one stage, but couldn’t make the time to practice.  Feedback park outside Centurion was a perfect playground for honing those particular practical skills. 

With regards to the 20yo:  I don’t see that as the AT market, as a matter of fact, I don’t see that as any big adventure bike market.  At 20 years old all I wanted to do is go flat out and hence the enduro period.  Very few >20<30yo can afford a big Adventure bike.  What made Look what you’re missing so interesting?  Rider skill, or the places to go see and the roads taking you there, with the freedom only experienced on a motorcycle?  Multiply the beautiful places x 100, the riding terrain x 200, backed up by an experienced professional crew and you’ve got an idea of the Quest.  Competing in a different format will bring a magnitude of different challenges and feel to the event. 

20 of us will always be bias towards the format that we experienced.  It worked, and it worked very well.  Hence, the different perspective I find very interesting.

It’s one of those things that I guess is as difficult to explain than it is to understand if you weren’t part of it.  :thumleft:

Edit:  Adventure means different things to different people.  This will attract a multitude of opinions and perceived skills making up a true adventurer.  For me, not necessarily a competition:

“A man practices the art of adventure when he heroically faces up to life. When he has the daring to open doors to new experiences. When he is unafraid of new ideas, new theories, and new philosophies. When he has the curiosity to experiment. When he breaks the chain of routine.” - Wilfred Peterson, The Art of Living
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 01, 2018, 02:42:59 pm
Totally disagree with the last two posts.  There is already a GS Challenge, there is enduro’s and there are rally’s.  If you want to test those specific skills, the platform is already created.

The Quest is something totally different, albeit a test of rider skill, bike ability and durability.  Although in competition format, it is so much more than that:  Quest - True Adventure is the full event name.  Many guys can ride a bike extremely well, but put all of the comments and suggestions together from this thread and you find an animal totally different from a skilled rider only.

This makes more sense, let me change my tune to say that rider skill/bike toughness and ability must make up the bulk of the test.

Coming to think about it properly :thumleft: I have to come to the conclusion that when it comes to "adventure riding" a rider's bike skills, while he should be able to help himself well, is actually

less important than things like tenacity, mechanical sympathy/aptitude, etc.

In fact, only in a solo event is mechanical aptitude very important.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 01, 2018, 03:14:13 pm




“A man practices the art of adventure when he heroically faces up to life. When he has the daring to open doors to new experiences. When he is unafraid of new ideas, new theories, and new philosophies. When he has the curiosity to experiment. When he breaks the chain of routine.” - Wilfred Peterson, The Art of Living



Now give than man a Bells  :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: m0lt3n on April 01, 2018, 05:46:30 pm
Some good angles discussed here. Didnt even think of Long way down.

I do maintain though, I would much rather watch an episode of one of the KTM rallies in new zeeland or australia or such than

Uhm

Cant even think of an example, there is examples though but I am honestly hitting a blank, as you wont watch something like that twice.

One must remember though that at the time of Long way down there wasnt many similar stories or series, many options. Now there are.


I would watch Quest 2 though, regardless.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dwerg on April 01, 2018, 06:03:56 pm
I’d still watch long way down over something more riding focussed. In the end the tavel aspect combined with people’s personalities and some adversity is what makes for an interesting show. Production quality is also key. Watching events on a show is a little pointless because all you see is bikes whizzing past a camera man
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on April 01, 2018, 06:09:19 pm
Take the body builder, the parade soldier, the surfer and the recognisance unit guy. They are all men (for this argument). They have all one major thing in common – they are and have to be physically in good shape. The major difference, however, is: you can easily identify the body builder for who he is, same with the soldier boy and the surfer boy. You cannot on the outside identify the recce for who he is.

How is this applicable?

It is one thing to be able to spin your bike on the rear wheel, to use your front brake successfully for a high speed sudden stop in deep sand, to balance the bike on two wooden poles, etc. and sometimes it is awesome to see guys do that. And, as above, you can easily identify them. They average to look the same and think the same and ride the same type of bikes. The real adventure rider looks normal and mostly rides non-designer bikes and refrains from participation in organised group events. You cannot see him for what he is. He has no point to prove, since he is living the point. He is doing it, he is not talking it.

Each to his own, you cannot compare apples with oranges. As I said at the beginning: you have your Rossis and your motocross champs. They are good to excellent at what they do. Respect to them. They also have adventure. They also require to have certain attributes which not all of us have. We all have adventure, but to do a local cross-country layout successfully in record time is something totally different than to cross the Sahara from Agadir to Tripoli. Normally the body builders don’t make the selection for the recognisance unit, and vice versa.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 01, 2018, 06:16:39 pm
Some good angles discussed here. Didnt even think of Long way down.

I do maintain though, I would much rather watch an episode of one of the KTM rallies in new zeeland or australia or such than

Uhm

Cant even think of an example, there is examples though but I am honestly hitting a blank, as you wont watch something like that twice.

One must remember though that at the time of Long way down there wasnt many similar stories or series, many options. Now there are.


I would watch Quest 2 though, regardless.

Molten - Nothing wrong with what you mentioned, as it has been proven true in the past.

The organisers of Camel Trophy ran out of ideas during the latter part of the Trophy in 98', and resorted to a more Ironman approach (Kayaking, mountain biking etc). This did not resonate with Land Rover and they pulled out soon after.
Honda, like Land Rover did in the beginning of Camel Trophy, recognizes the fact that we are not all born with the natural, raw talent of a Toby Price etc, and therefor the team orientated format.

I believe we are going to surprise you with the next Quest - whether you are watching the videos on You Tube - or roughing it out with 19 other riders somewhere in a riverbed in Namibia......

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: BlueBull2007 on April 01, 2018, 06:43:01 pm
Hardy, maybe start another thread on Quest? :deal:


A good adventure rider is anyone who is willing to perhaps ride or travel a little bit out of their comfort zone, dabble in a little bit of risk on a journey somewhere on a bike. It does not even have to be a multi-day journey.

It has not one iota to do with riding skill or the type of bike or whether it is a team event or group ride or where you ride. 


"Oh he is a good adventure rider." .... So what.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 01, 2018, 06:51:26 pm
Hardy, maybe start another thread on Quest? :deal:


A good adventure rider is anyone who is willing to perhaps ride or travel a little bit out of their comfort zone, dabble in a little bit of risk on a journey somewhere on a bike. It does not even have to be a multi-day journey.

It has not one iota to do with riding skill or the type of bike or whether it is a team event or group ride or where you ride. 


"Oh he is a good adventure rider." .... So what.

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Casting from Turd on April 01, 2018, 07:20:22 pm
Maybe a "Good" adventure rider is the oke that jumps on his bike and rides......period...

Taking the less traveled roads to nowhere

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: m0lt3n on April 01, 2018, 08:05:00 pm
Care to share some plans with the next Quest? When will it be? Same area?

I am very interested in your thoughts of what you plan on doing different?

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on April 01, 2018, 08:34:54 pm
Sub

Take two people going on a similar trip.  The one has bike problems or can’t fix a puncture, run into trouble along the way, can’t cover the distance, arrive late at night. The other get it done without a fuss and less trouble.

What is the differences between the two?

It is a bit of experience, a bit of planning, bit of mechanical aptitude, bit of riding skill, etc. And a lot if attitude.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 01, 2018, 08:39:33 pm
Hardy, maybe start another thread on Quest? :deal:


A good adventure rider is anyone who is willing to perhaps ride or travel a little bit out of their comfort zone, dabble in a little bit of risk on a journey somewhere on a bike. It does not even have to be a multi-day journey.

It has not one iota to do with riding skill or the type of bike or whether it is a team event or group ride or where you ride. 


"Oh he is a good adventure rider." .... So what.

BB 2007

I think you misunderstood the context of the thread. This is not a dick swinging exercise. I would just like to hear what riders thoughts are with regards to the personification of a good adventure rider. From what I saw, no one compared themselves against others etc.
Honda is taking aim at our segment of the motorcycle market and so far, everyone's opinion of what an adventure rider is, or what true adventure is, differs.
Anyway - getting a lot of good feedback here and enjoying the various opinions.

Do you prefer to ride solo?

Cheers
Hardy

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 01, 2018, 08:44:56 pm
Sub

Take two people going on a similar trip.  The one has bike problems or can’t fix a puncture, run into trouble along the way, can’t cover the distance, arrive late at night. The other get it done without a fuss and less trouble.

What is the differences between the two?

It is a bit of experience, a bit of planning, bit of mechanical aptitude, bit of riding skill, etc. And a lot if attitude.

SM

Did you mean lack of stamina or fitness with "can't cover the distance"? - Interesting comment.
 
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Captain Cook on April 01, 2018, 08:58:44 pm
I have been watching this thread with interest.  For me it's hard to use the word Adventure and Competition in one sentance.  When I read about technical skills, sand riding skills, mechanical skills, back-up vehicles etc the word Adventure starts to become a bit diluted.  So here are my thoughts.

1. Select a destination
2. Give each contestant a bike and a budget
3. Give them the option to travel alone or pick a partner
4. Each contestant/team must kit their own bikes and plan their own route and take care of their own repairs and maintenance
5. Each contestant/team must establish a blog and make use a the various social media platforms to create a following giving daily updates on their route, progress etc like a progressing ride report.  GoPro's, pictures, video's and drones can be used to bring their adventure alive and make following interesting.  Places of interest and interaction With the locals on the route can all be used The size of there following hits on their articles etc can be one of the criteria in selecting the ultimate Adventurer.
5. Define waypoints where each contestant/team must check- in within a specified timeframe.
6. These waypoints can be used to plan marketing events.  If a rider or team don't make it there on time they are disqualified.
7. Tracking devices can be used so you can track the progress of your rider or team as well as for saftey reasons otherwise riders are on their own.

I understand it is marketing and brand awareness that is the driving force behind the Quest but I believe the options around the points above are endless.  For me this would be a true adventure and I am sure it is the adventure most of us dream about every day


Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Bokveld on April 01, 2018, 09:38:33 pm
The problem with definitions, is  if you don't comply, did you fail ? I'm on a trip, there is lots of sand and I fall a lot... was the trip a failure as an adventure.

So I just ride, not asking what makes it a good adventure ride. If I get home safe it was a good ride.

Like a pilot... every landing you can walk away from is a good one.

So my take on being an 'adventure rider'... just be one, don't put yourself in a box against others.
Thanks for the post.It makes me feel better.Hardy,I appreciate your effort,but it's a mine field.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: BlueBull2007 on April 01, 2018, 10:52:29 pm
Hardy, maybe start another thread on Quest? :deal:
A good adventure rider is anyone who is willing to perhaps ride or travel a little bit out of their comfort zone, dabble in a little bit of risk on a journey somewhere on a bike. It does not even have to be a multi-day journey.

It has not one iota to do with riding skill or the type of bike or whether it is a team event or group ride or where you ride. 

"Oh he is a good adventure rider." .... So what.

BB 2007

I think you misunderstood the context of the thread. This is not a dick swinging exercise. I would just like to hear what riders thoughts are with regards to the personification of a good adventure rider. From what I saw, no one compared themselves against others etc.
Honda is taking aim at our segment of the motorcycle market and so far, everyone's opinion of what an adventure rider is, or what true adventure is, differs.
Anyway - getting a lot of good feedback here and enjoying the various opinions.

Do you prefer to ride solo?
Cheers
Hardy

:thumleft:

Not at all, Hardey. Sincere apologies if I came across differently!

Unfortunately this could become a swinging dick thing which is why I said what I said. I kinda go along with what Gérrard said: be careful about worrying too much you're an adventure rider or not, most of us braving the world out there on two wheels these days are adventurers....except of course the Harley guys! ;D Even then I suppose riding around in a gynecologists chair could be an adventure of a different sort!  >:D

I am all for hearing what people define as an adventure for them.

I really love riding solo. Its perhaps the most relaxing for me. But I also really enjoy riding in groups or with the wife on her bike, or even with little kids learning stuff. Anything to do with bikes - is a bit of an adventure for me. There is a time for everything and why not? :ricky:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 02, 2018, 05:47:53 am
The problem with definitions, is  if you don't comply, did you fail ? I'm on a trip, there is lots of sand and I fall a lot... was the trip a failure as an adventure.

So I just ride, not asking what makes it a good adventure ride. If I get home safe it was a good ride.

Like a pilot... every landing you can walk away from is a good one.

So my take on being an 'adventure rider'... just be one, don't put yourself in a box against others.
Thanks for the post.It makes me feel better.Hardy,I appreciate your effort,but it's a mine field.

I knew that before I started the thread. Very interesting though - the different takes on what adventure really is. :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on April 02, 2018, 06:14:48 am
The problem with definitions, is  if you don't comply, did you fail ? I'm on a trip, there is lots of sand and I fall a lot... was the trip a failure as an adventure.

So I just ride, not asking what makes it a good adventure ride. If I get home safe it was a good ride.

Like a pilot... every landing you can walk away from is a good one.

So my take on being an 'adventure rider'... just be one, don't put yourself in a box against others.
Thanks for the post.It makes me feel better.Hardy,I appreciate your effort,but it's a mine field.

Menige ‘wannabe’ avonturiers kan ‘n blaadjie daar uit Oom Bokveld se boek kom skeur.  Hoe lank terug het Oom begin ry?  En hoeveel kilos op daai groen monster en al hoe ver Namib in? 

Net van een ontmoeting en die stories wat vertel word, is daar reeds die legende van Oom Kallie en sy avonture in my kop.  Teenstrydig met die stereotipe en iemand wat hier ‘n groot bydrae kan maak.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 02, 2018, 07:14:49 am
I have been watching this thread with interest.  For me it's hard to use the word Adventure and Competition in one sentance.  When I read about technical skills, sand riding skills, mechanical skills, back-up vehicles etc the word Adventure starts to become a bit diluted.  So here are my thoughts.

1. Select a destination - No problem
2. Give each contestant a bike and a budget - No problem
3. Give them the option to travel alone or pick a partner - Unfortunately no corporate would open itself up to the risks involved in this.
4. Each contestant/team must kit their own bikes and plan their own route and take care of their own repairs and maintenance - What happens when they can't?
5. Each contestant/team must establish a blog and make use a the various social media platforms to create a following giving daily updates on their route, progress etc like a progressing ride report.  GoPro's, pictures, video's and drones can be used to bring their adventure alive and make following interesting.  Places of interest and interaction With the locals on the route can all be used The size of there following hits on their articles etc can be one of the criteria in selecting the ultimate Adventurer. - Would have been fantastic if there was any form of WI FI or cellphone reception in the area. Unfortunately there isn't.
5. Define waypoints where each contestant/team must check- in within a specified timeframe.- And at this point it becomes a race against time - Is it really adventure then?
6. These waypoints can be used to plan marketing events.  If a rider or team don't make it there on time they are disqualified. - What happens if he/they helped others and were late because of this?
7. Tracking devices can be used so you can track the progress of your rider or team as well as for saftey reasons otherwise riders are on their own. - We do.

I understand it is marketing and brand awareness that is the driving force behind the Quest but I believe the options around the points above are endless.  For me this would be a true adventure and I am sure it is the adventure most of us dream about every day

Thanks Captain Cook.

Fact of the matter is that an automotive brand would only get involved in a brand experience if the possible risks are limited to almost 0%
They would also want to capture the footage as much as possible.
I like your idea very much though. - pursue it, you never know.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on April 02, 2018, 07:32:45 am
Something like the Livingston Cup Camelman was planning IOW?
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Leo on April 02, 2018, 07:42:56 am
I like what Captain Cook suggested with certain alterations. The flip side of the coin is however, if one is technically challenged like many of us elderly riders, would I now be disqualified as an adventure rider?

I would much rather ride to an idyllic location and sit and soak up the surroundings than now having to run around looking for internet connections to update my blog or book face any of that sh!t. Most of those places don't have coverage as it stands.

"Silence is golden, so shut up and get rich".
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Welsh on April 02, 2018, 07:48:46 am
I like what Captain Cook suggested with certain alterations. The flip side of the coin is however, if one is technically challenged like many of us elderly riders, would I now be disqualified as an adventure rider?

I would much rather ride to an idyllic location and sit and soak up the surroundings than now having to run around looking for internet connections to update my blog or book face any of that sh!t. Most of those places don't have coverage as it stands.

"Silence is golden, so shut up and get rich".

Morning Leo.  :sip: 8) somewhere like the Philippolis Hotel..... I am definitely disqualified, as I officially have a pensioners card... :peepwall:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 02, 2018, 07:59:31 am
I think that if you are technically challenged, it sort of eliminates solo riding to remote destinations for you.

Having said that, no amount of technical knowledge is going to sort out a blown CDI on a 701 at Shop no. 1, Orupembe. :pot:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on April 02, 2018, 08:14:03 am
I think that if you are technically challenged, it sort of eliminates solo riding to remote destinations for you.

Having said that, no amount of technical knowledge is going to sort out a blown CDI on a 701 at Shop no. 1, Orupembe. :pot:

True
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Dux on April 02, 2018, 01:01:50 pm
I think what I am seeing is that adventure is different things to different people , some might be quite content to do a weekend in the Cederberg while others feel the need to do the whole of Africa or the world for that matter , some prefer solo , others in groups and then again some prefer technical rides while others prefer easy gravel rides , some with backup and some without .
I don't think it makes any of them more or less desirable , it once again all depends on the person .

Sub

Take two people going on a similar trip.  The one has bike problems or can’t fix a puncture, run into trouble along the way, can’t cover the distance, arrive late at night. The other get it done without a fuss and less trouble.

What is the differences between the two?

It is a bit of experience, a bit of planning, bit of mechanical aptitude, bit of riding skill, etc. And a lot if attitude.

Sometimes it is also a dose of luck , good or bad , I don't feel punctures are down to skill or planning unless the person departs on a trip with an almost bald tyre , but planning and mechanical abilities do help in making it easier to deal with scenario's on a journey  , and waiting on the side of the road for help to arrive does not constitute good planning , this I have seen first hand already  :o
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: The Muffin man on April 02, 2018, 06:38:04 pm
Sub


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on April 02, 2018, 07:33:36 pm
Sub

Take two people going on a similar trip.  The one has bike problems or can’t fix a puncture, run into trouble along the way, can’t cover the distance, arrive late at night. The other get it done without a fuss and less trouble.

What is the differences between the two?

It is a bit of experience, a bit of planning, bit of mechanical aptitude, bit of riding skill, etc. And a lot if attitude.

SM

Did you mean lack of stamina or fitness with "can't cover the distance"? - Interesting comment.

No not only stamina. It can be a lot of other factors.  They might have been optimistic in planning their distance and could not reach the destination. It might have been due to navigation errors. Or they had a puncture and no puncture repair tools and someone had to go to the closest town to get stuff. Or tackled terrain outside their comfort zone. It links back to all the options you have given above.

A 4x4 tour guide told me one day that a successful trip is one where he got all the vehicle through without any damage.

To me that links to a good adventure bike rider. One that can go out and have an adventure without much drama and avoid or solve problems that might occur.
Unfortunately that links back to being good at all the items you mentioned above and not only excelling in a few.

Unfortunately I don't know how you would link it to an event or competition (I presume that is what this thread is for)
-Take preparation as an example: You can try to prep for every eventuality but then you will probably overpack. A balance is needed. 
  The good adventure rider is not necessarily the one who prepared the best but the one who can make work with what he has or matching his prep to the trip.
-Trip planning: Not necessarily the guy who can plan the furthest or most technical route but the one who can match it to his riding ability and maybe the ability of the bike.
etc, etc.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Leo on April 02, 2018, 08:08:55 pm
Morning Leo.  :sip: 8) somewhere like the Philippolis Hotel..... I am definitely disqualified, as I officially have a pensioners card... :peepwall:

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: That was a nasty day, but a good memory none the less. It was an adventure negotiating the road to Norvalspont  ;)

Seriously = Officially Welsh?  :thumleft:

Hijack Off  :ricky:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Bokveld on April 02, 2018, 09:57:13 pm
   Nee wat Kobus,ek was maar net gelukkig om die regte stories en mense raak te loop op my swerftogte.

Usually my appetite for adventure far exceeds my riding ability.That's why most of my trips bordered on stupidity.But to be a good adventure rider, I would say riding and mechanical skills are important.Then, get on your bike and head for the hills!
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Rexc-w on April 04, 2018, 02:26:46 pm
To me the 3 most important characteristics for an Adventure Rider are:

1.   Adventure spirit:
•   ‘Adventure’ means different things to different people. For the real novice, his/her first ride onto a dirt road might be an ‘adventure’.  Riding a sandy dirt road for the first time is perhaps the same ‘Adventure’ to the novice than riding Northern Namibia is for the experienced.
•   To me an ‘Adventure” should contain some - Challenge. It should challenge you mentally, physically and your skills to some sensible/responsible level.
•   Part of the ‘Adventure/Adventure Spirit’ lies in the planning. Route scouting and planning. Planning logistics – fuel/water/food/spares/tools/accommodation/emergencies etc.
•   Whatever ‘Adventure’ means to you, prepare for it and get out there and do it.

2.   Overall riding skill in various terrain:
•   This was something that annoyed the crap out of me at Quest Boot Camp.  I would probably have shat my pants if one more Crew Member emphasized that – “ We are not looking for Riding Gods!!!” I never saw anyone trying to show-off.
•   QUEST was not looking for Chris Birches or Graham Jarvises, but you definitely needed riders with appropriate skills.  Northern Namibia is not the place to come and learn basic bike skills.
•   You made the right selection last year as everybody adapted and made it through safely.   
•    Someone without the appropriate skills should never be selected for an event like Quest.

3.   Mechanical Sympathy and Restraint:
•   An unnecessary mechanical  or injury due to “windgat geit” can spoil an good adventure for an entire group. When you’re riding in remote areas like eg Lesotho, Transkei, Northern Namibia etc – this is not the time and place to impress your riding buddies by taking unnecessary risks. ALWAYS ride within yourself and properly evaluate the risk in riding certain routes and obstacles.
•   To recover a broken bike out of remote areas can be a huge logistical challenge and inconvenience – Not part of the ‘Adventure’ thanks.
•   To get an injured rider out of the same area can be a logistical and financial challenge. At worst – it could cost someone his life.
•   Most of us have a regular day job and families to care for.  Think about that.

Maybe something to consider for future QUEST events. This is not criticism, it is just my personal opinion.  Maybe the engineer in me ;-))!
Last year the teams competed for a GRAND PRIZE.  Nobody knew what the rules were. Not the riders, nor the followers. It creates an environment for participants to do a whole lot of  - pretending - in order to do things that might impress the judges.  Looking at the judging from the outside, it seemed very subjective.
Make the rules clear from the start. That will make scoring objective and everyone will know how to play.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Offside on April 04, 2018, 03:49:08 pm

Different strokes for different folks.
For me a sense of isolation gives the feeling that one is on an adventure.
So never more than 3 bikes and no back up vehicle.
Greater the risk,greater the adventure
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 0012 on April 04, 2018, 04:06:42 pm
sub   :sip:

all very interesting.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: the ruffian on April 10, 2018, 07:08:25 am
Some fascinating views here.

“Adventure” is the key word. If you’re still in your comfort zone you are not having an adventure. An adventure is an invigorating experience, because at some stage, with degrees of relativity, you have had to kak off, either because your skills level have been extended, or because you’ve had to deal with technical failure, or because you have simply bitten off more than you can chew, and therefore had to chew harder.

All “adventure riding” as we know it on this forum is commodified. There are , obviously, degrees of commodification. And therefore grades of adventure. The world of rock climbing offers a useful analogy. There is “adventure climbing” and “sport climbing”, with degrees of risk and uncertainty being the defining elements, as well as difficulty. Backcountry, self-supported, solo, is what defines true adventure, whether as a rider or climber.

To return to this thread then, having support or back-up is opting for more commodification and therefore less adventure, regardless of the terrain , the suitability of the bike, or the skills level  of the rider. From the outset then , if you’re a true adventure rider you aspire to riding solo and self-supported, and as back country as possible.


But we all know we can’t do that all the time... or necessarily even want to...

Among the multiple ride reports that I love reading on this forum, a few stand out as true adventure. The image of Expat rebuilding his clutch on Van Zyl’s Pass, or Metal Jockey riding Kaokaland with his wife and daughter, or Max the Panda and his mates riding the Doodsakker in Angola  ( to name just a few) quicken the spirit of adventure in me...


Of course Hardy’s question requires that all adventure then demands individualized contextualization.

But I would hope that “true adventure” requires that when you set out alone, or with your mate(s), your vagabond spirit is soaring, and your guts are churning with an ecstatic dread of the uncertainty of it all...
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: m0lt3n on April 10, 2018, 09:03:51 am
If I did not fall once on a trip, it was not much of a challenge/adventure
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on April 10, 2018, 09:27:10 am
Just gone through this thread, nursing a virus and a bad case of post ride blues. So below might be a ramblings of a fool, please take it as such.

My choices in no set order are
1. Overall riding skills in various terrain
2. Mechanical aptitude
3. Vasbyt factor (grit, determination, perseverance, adaptability, patience, faith)

1. is self explanatory while 2. is needed if like me you tend to have little Mechanical sympathy and restraint and 3. trumps all.

I love a challenge and grab it with both hands. I dont like easy and would rather not ride if its a cruise. Adventures should be FUN and a journey without FUN is just a trip. All of us have different views of FUN. Personally I realized long ago that the easy parts of life are quickly forgotten but those tough times are always remembered, often fondly.

The above Poll is a fair spread of requirements and all are needed in different amounts at different times but most are not a deal breaker where it comes to a adventure.

Give me a challenge, give me a adventure and if you say I cant do it. Fuck you! Stand aside and let me show you. I will do it and I will make it work. Maybe this is why I prefer doing my adventures alone!

Nothing worth while comes easy!

Going back to my virus induced fever and chicken soup!   :deal:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Toors on April 10, 2018, 02:07:32 pm
I think there is just one:

The absolute unfaltering need to see what is on the other-side... of the hill/river/ocean/desert ....
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Zanie on April 10, 2018, 07:57:16 pm
If I was limited to three options I'd have to pick the following:

1. Vasbyt factor
2. Adventure spirit
3. Mechanical aptitude

The reason I left out riding skills: This is something you build over time. Adventure is all relative. When new, the first piece of gravel was an adventure, then the first piece of rocky road, then the first piece of sand.

You can build skill, but if you don't have the "vasbyt factor" you may just give up at the first patch of sand and then the whole thing ends there and skills don't get built regardless. Vasbyt and that adventure spirit to go explore more and push the boundaries can get you further eventually.

A case in point is something I saw at a very sandy funduro. My unending respect went towards a beginner who took more than double the amount of time I took to do the same lap...without giving up. I'm not sure I could have done it if in the same situation. She finished through sheer determination. No tears. No fuss. 4 hours to do 30km. And she had a smile to show afterwards. Hectic.

And then, in the spirit of "getting you further": some mechanical aptitude or at least the basics of changing a puncture (or at least wanting to learn how to do this). I remember watching a show that resembled the format of Long Way Round, but was about 2 guys riding around China. When one got a puncture, they said "the bike is broken" and loaded it onto the next truck that happened by. They lost credibility for me at that point.

Linking back to the Quest: What I liked was that there were some "everyday" people. They weren't all "riding gods" who had trained for weeks to compete, which is the (admittedly my own) impression I get from something like the GS Trophy.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Tom van Brits on June 26, 2018, 10:18:56 pm
Interesting to see everyones take on the subject

I think (me personally) with respect that if one needs to start laying down rules about what defines a good adventure rider, then you may consider looking at safer hobbies.

Not meant at you Hardy - you simply asking the audience what they think and you have proofed to be a big adventurer already - that is why many people put their trust in you and go on your trips which is great  :thumleft:

Point I want to make; If I ever had to ask myself whether I qualify and let the possible consequences stop me from going places I would not have lived at all. Throwing a leg over a bike in it's own is already a calculated risk. I am a paramedic (my job) and I have seen way too many bike accidents, skydiving accidents, violence etc but it has not stopped me from living my dream - Maybe I did think 'what if' but for example; here I am on one of the most remote sites in the world with no medical backup. If anything happens to me medical wise - trauma of whatever I am done. Yet I am here, because I live for the day. There are some 'common sense' things mentioned (yes you will have to know how to change a tube) but all you need to 'live' is am adventurous spirit.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Hardy de Kock on June 27, 2018, 05:25:13 pm
Interesting to see everyones take on the subject

I think (me personally) with respect that if one needs to start laying down rules about what defines a good adventure rider, then you may consider looking at safer hobbies.

Not meant at you Hardy - you simply asking the audience what they think and you have proofed to be a big adventurer already - that is why many people put their trust in you and go on your trips which is great  :thumleft:

Point I want to make; If I ever had to ask myself whether I qualify and let the possible consequences stop me from going places I would not have lived at all. Throwing a leg over a bike in it's own is already a calculated risk. I am a paramedic (my job) and I have seen way too many bike accidents, skydiving accidents, violence etc but it has not stopped me from living my dream - Maybe I did think 'what if' but for example; here I am on one of the most remote sites in the world with no medical backup. If anything happens to me medical wise - trauma of whatever I am done. Yet I am here, because I live for the day. There are some 'common sense' things mentioned (yes you will have to know how to change a tube) but all you need to 'live' is am adventurous spirit.

Tom - You are living proof of True Adventure and have my utmost respect.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on June 27, 2018, 05:49:50 pm
 I remember watching a show that resembled the format of Long Way Round, but was about 2 guys riding around China. When one got a puncture, they said "the bike is broken" and loaded it onto the next truck that happened by. They lost credibility for me at that point.

Yes those two brothers only use two ply toilet paper!! Maybe if my surname was Pile I'd only use two ply too!! :lol8:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/bmw-motorrad-usa/guinness-world-record-for-f-800-gs-brothers/211883595489690/
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Meteor on June 27, 2018, 08:52:05 pm
I'm making a list
People who-
1) have bought 1 hundreds rands' 2minute noodles for a trip

The rest are going through an expensive midlife crisis.  :pot:

 
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Oubones on June 27, 2018, 09:12:05 pm
I'm making a list
People who-
1) have bought 1 hundreds rands' 2minute noodles for a trip

The rest are going through an expensive midlife crisis.  :pot:
:imaposer: Nearly spat my ipad full of coke!
I am a cheapskate, only bought 50 rands worth before my last Lesotho trip.
But 200 rands biltong and dry wors!
I was asked very nicely to stop disappearing when I go on an adventure.
My contingency plan is to walk out and if I cannot walk, get the locals to dump me in a taxi to the nearest clinic!
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: jaybiker on June 29, 2018, 08:22:17 am
This is a fairly old topic, but it's still going so I'll weigh in with a couple of thoughts.
First the voting list, I guess I have at least a bit of most of the attributes listed, but I definitely fall short on at least a couple.

Item 4. General knowledge of navigation. I rely on memory of paper maps previously consulted, but not carried. Or signposts, or not very great general sense of direction!  Medical skills - nope, not much. Flora and fauna, probably even less. I've been known to tell people that all I know about birds is that they come coated in a secret blend of herbs and spices.  :biggrin:

Item 7.Communication, and ability to interact with people - sadly lacking, though I guess I can ask for directions, but not in many different languages.

But riding skill, there's the rub. It's been pointed out that this develops with experience and that's certainly true, but after lots (and lots) of experience it sort of goes over the hill and into decline. Time was, I wasn't too bad and there wasn't too much technical stuff that I couldn't manage, but these days I have to miss out on certain terrain. I can start out well enough at first on fairly rough going, for maybe half an hour to an hour, then the road seems to get rougher even though in reality it doesn't. It's just that I'm tiring and weakening, and the bike takes on a will of its own and stubbornly refuses to do as it's told.

No, I reckon experience is over rated. Too much of it can be a bitch!



Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on June 29, 2018, 08:28:42 am
This is a fairly old topic, but it's still going so I'll weigh in with a couple of thoughts.

Did you strike a blank there boet.  :laughing4:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Welsh on June 29, 2018, 08:38:39 am
This is a fairly old topic, but it's still going so I'll weigh in with a couple of thoughts.

Did you strike a blank there boet.  :laughing4:
A bit thoughtless I thought.  :sip:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Casting from Turd on June 29, 2018, 08:39:44 am
This is a fairly old topic, but it's still going so I'll weigh in with a couple of thoughts.

Did you strike a blank there boet.  :laughing4:

Nah, Prob just lost the train of thought  :imaposer:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: eberhard on June 29, 2018, 08:44:39 am
Nah, Prob just lost the train of thought  :imaposer:

Hi-jack! This IS about bikes, NOT trains!
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on June 29, 2018, 08:53:27 am
If you ever have a bit of time, the following is quite an interesting read - Debunking the myth of the modern-day adventurer.

http://tomallen.info/why-i-feel-deeply-uncomfortable-when-people-call-me-an-adventurer/

About the author:

http://tomallen.info
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: jaybiker on June 29, 2018, 09:13:16 am
See what I mean? Start well enough, but then (lack of) computer skill lets me down  :(  See modified version.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Lou1 on June 29, 2018, 09:43:53 am

No, I reckon experience and knowledge is over rated. Too much of it can be a bitch!

Agree

Best adventures is when you where young, dumb and full of cum
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 29, 2018, 10:17:42 am
To put things in some form of perspective, these riders I see in morning and afternoon traffic on our busy roads are at higher risk than the rider crossing a desert.

Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Fransw on June 29, 2018, 10:20:46 am
To put things in some form of perspective, these riders I see in morning and afternoon traffic on our busy roads are at higher risk than the rider crossing a desert.

Fact!..
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on June 29, 2018, 11:18:05 am
To put things in some form of perspective, these riders I see in morning and afternoon traffic on our busy roads are at higher risk than the rider crossing a desert.
Die apteek Vespa's now they live dangerously and adventourisly every day. :deal:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Oilspill on July 04, 2018, 05:24:19 pm
An adventurer is going into the unknown "for you", taking informed risks when the majority crowd says it's dangerous or impossible, not being suicidal but facing your fears, not giving up but pushing through, all with a sense of wonder that even in our little corner of the world we will never experience it all, and yet we must endeavor to do just that, why? Well because we are alive and it's there to experience.

It is not the kit you have, the marketing you believe, the story you tell, or the fame you achieve that defines you as adventurer,  only you can define your own truth.


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Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 07, 2018, 12:25:31 pm
An adventurer is going into the unknown "for you", taking informed risks when the majority crowd says it's dangerous or impossible, not being suicidal but facing your fears, not giving up but pushing through, all with a sense of wonder that even in our little corner of the world we will never experience it all, and yet we must endeavor to do just that, why? Well because we are alive and it's there to experience.

It is not the kit you have, the marketing you believe, the story you tell, or the fame you achieve that defines you as adventurer,  only you can define your own truth.


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Very true, and yet so sad to see how many riders get a less than full experience because of the marketing experience they believe.

If I had no money for any decent motorcycle, I'd be "exploring" around on a cheap Chinamen, yet finances keep many away from riding because they cannot afford a "real" bike.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: Oubones on July 07, 2018, 12:36:08 pm
An adventurer is going into the unknown "for you", taking informed risks when the majority crowd says it's dangerous or impossible, not being suicidal but facing your fears, not giving up but pushing through, all with a sense of wonder that even in our little corner of the world we will never experience it all, and yet we must endeavor to do just that, why? Well because we are alive and it's there to experience.

It is not the kit you have, the marketing you believe, the story you tell, or the fame you achieve that defines you as adventurer,  only you can define your own truth.


Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

Very true, and yet so sad to see how many riders get a less than full experience because of the marketing experience they believe.

If I had no money for any decent motorcycle, I'd be "exploring" around on a cheap Chinamen, yet finances keep many away from riding because they cannot afford a "real" bike.
Oh ok, now I know why I took an rd400 on the Sabie area foresty roads!
Thanks guys now after all these years of being told I am mad, I realise not more than you Dan :imaposer: :peepwall:
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: WNaude on September 05, 2018, 11:39:34 am
Hi Guys,
Probably too late, but as a 30 year old, with adventure running through my veins, here is my 2 cents worth: 

Kobus is spot on with his saying that most 20 to 30 year olds can’t afford an adventure bike, thus not fully experience the adventure rider spirit. I could never afford a proper adventure bike but my finances did allow me to buy a few forgotten Honda XR classics which I restored.

None the less that never stopped me from having an adventure. Whether it was building my own “kaskar” and riding it down in our street, or having to be very fortunate and doing a solo trip through Namibia on my boet’s 1150 GSA.

To me it is all about the spirit inside you, your willingness to explore and eagerness to see the unforeseen. If you have that passion, it can never be taken away. Passion is something that can’t be learned nor bought. Mechanical skills, endurance, stamina, strength, knowledge is all things you learn as life takes you on various journeys. Having all these skills doesn’t make you an adventure rider, it make you a good rider. Adventure comes from within.

Reading all the comment above and having followed the 2017 Quest closely, I can only dream of achieving all these things. But I will stand to my point, as a 30 year old I might not have all the skills and experience that defines a good adventure rider, but my passion, willingness and drive to learn, explore and go that extra mile makes me an adventure rider. I am young, I am fit, I am strong and I have passion. These are the only things that I can use to grow and evolve into a true experienced adventure rider.

I have learned all the necessary skills to take care of my bike, but no one has taught me to have a passion for adventure.

Getting on my bike every weekend and just driving on any dirt road I can find for as long and far as I can, man that feeling can never be taken away and sends chills down my spine.
Title: Re: What defines a good adventure bike rider?
Post by: XR boy on March 29, 2019, 01:01:59 pm
The one that comes home in one piece from whatever the ride


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