Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Battlestar on May 23, 2018, 06:19:35 pm

Title: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Battlestar on May 23, 2018, 06:19:35 pm
Here we go. Let the tearing apart begin......


https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131005/honda-updates-crf-line-up-for-2019-with-two-new-and-three-updated-machines?utm_campaign=NewsAlert_2269&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=hondanews.eu
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: katana on May 23, 2018, 06:28:38 pm
(https://hondanews.eu/image/motorcycles/low/131058/1_1/5)

If they offer a blue one with a Yamaha badge it could be a winner   ;D
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Grumpleton on May 23, 2018, 06:31:23 pm
http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-announced/
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: XRRX on May 23, 2018, 06:31:30 pm
AWESOME - AT LAST!!!  :3some:
Will look very naaice next to the GS in the garage!!!  :drif:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Battlestar on May 23, 2018, 06:44:08 pm
It looks good. Could be the perfect second bike. Anodising on the forks looks proper  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 23, 2018, 06:45:55 pm
 :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: XRRX on May 23, 2018, 06:50:05 pm
It looks good. Could be the perfect second bike. Anodising on the forks looks proper  :peepwall:
:imaposer: :lol8: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Offshore on May 23, 2018, 07:02:16 pm
Honda in George told me last Week that this is coming. Price looks a bit steep but lets see.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 23, 2018, 07:32:18 pm
It looks good. Could be the perfect second bike. Anodising on the forks looks proper  :peepwall:

This could be the perfect first and only bike! At last a proper light adv bike, not a motox wanabee, bla bla piece of shit!

Interesting to note that the first major service is only at 30 000km
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: ZK1 on May 23, 2018, 07:42:51 pm
It looks good. Could be the perfect second bike. Anodising on the forks looks proper  :peepwall:

This could be the perfect first and only bike! At last a proper light adv bike, not a motox wanabee, bla bla piece of shit!

Interesting to note that the first major service is only at 30 000km
I think it will have a lot less power then the MX version because of this, but I like it.....if its well built like the MX version with good suspension, could be fun.....nd easy to gooi a set of SM wheels on there as well.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 23, 2018, 07:44:58 pm
Yeah baby https://powersports.honda.com/2019/crf450l.aspx?forcedesktop=true
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: ZK1 on May 23, 2018, 07:52:56 pm
But...it looks like its going to be f...king expensive
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 23, 2018, 07:58:09 pm
Titanium fuel tank
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 23, 2018, 07:58:17 pm
Rally version sure to follow  :drif:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 23, 2018, 08:01:28 pm
131kg wet
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 23, 2018, 08:05:29 pm
131kg wet

And almost every Tom , Dick and Harry will add a whole lot of extra weight with luggage things  ;)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on May 23, 2018, 08:28:41 pm
10 400usd,
what (speculated) will the price be here?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 23, 2018, 08:34:34 pm
131kg wet

And almost every Tom , Dick and Harry will add a whole lot of extra weight with luggage things  ;)
Will still end up weighing less than just about any other factory DS bike
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 23, 2018, 08:35:42 pm
CRF250 Rally for sale, one nanny owner 1300km. Good as new, PM me !
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 23, 2018, 08:39:22 pm
10 400usd,
what (speculated) will the price be here?
R135900-00  ;)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 23, 2018, 08:43:56 pm
CRF250 Rally for sale, one nanny owner 1300km. Good as new, PM me !
🤣
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: RobLH on May 23, 2018, 08:47:23 pm
Keen to hear service intervals for local conditions.

Also hoping someone can come out with a decent size LR tank. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on May 23, 2018, 09:00:48 pm
Dont worry, after market goodies will come.
The ozzies will pimp the shit out of it.
Is this cush drive rear end?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 23, 2018, 09:09:51 pm
Sounds like it
 
Quote
Final-Drive Sprocket Damper

Designed to keep your bike quieter while not adding any weight, these unique drive sprockets are just another example of the CRF450Lís innovative engineering.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Grappa on May 23, 2018, 09:19:45 pm
Great stuff. 2 gallon (7.8 Lt) tank not going to be you very far
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on May 23, 2018, 09:28:49 pm
Isnt us gallon 4.5 ltr? Still not taking you very far.
Depending on price and service intervals this might be it for me.
I hope this Honda dont have to live in the shadow of the 310 gs :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on May 23, 2018, 10:10:07 pm
Younguys miss one important part, and that is the extra comp ring on piston. Will surely take power away, but will help with longevity.

Im so glad they didnt use the ďvinger-inni-holĒ headlight from the Crf250L...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 23, 2018, 10:56:20 pm
Younguys miss one important part, and that is the extra comp ring on piston. Will surely take power away, but will help with longevity.

Im so glad they didnt use the ďvinger-inni-holĒ headlight from the Crf250L...
YZ has been hp king before, with 3 rings, so it can be done I guess
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 23, 2018, 10:57:24 pm
New 450X with 6 gears!
My all-time favorite just got better

(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2019-Honda-CRF450X-First-Look-enduro-off-road-motorcycle-8.jpg)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on May 23, 2018, 11:17:14 pm
Fuuuuck finally.

If this really happens it might be the first bike I would seriously consider to replace my XR650R.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: YoungGSer on May 23, 2018, 11:21:57 pm
30000km without a service....on our kak fuel quality....I think not!.


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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Battlestar on May 24, 2018, 05:00:52 am
It won't be 30000km without a service!  First MAJOR service is at 30k. Probably every service up to 30k will just be oil and filters. 30k will probably be Airfilter, plugs and possibly valve clearances.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Battlestar on May 24, 2018, 05:05:37 am
Service intervals on the 250 were a lengthy 12000km. Could this be the bike the "gods" have been waiting for? A genuine second bike for some to have alongside their big ds machines. Will be very interesting to see what price it will come it at. Don't expect anything less than a 100k!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DCR on May 24, 2018, 05:39:58 am
This is promising! Hopefully the first of many, but knowing Honda the potentially high price might the end up positioning it against the 690/701.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on May 24, 2018, 05:59:04 am
This is promising! Hopefully the first of many, but knowing Honda the potentially high price might the end up positioning it against the 690/701.

Can not wait for this!  I think it will compete with the KTM500 price wise.  Slightly less hopefully.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on May 24, 2018, 07:00:41 am
Lots to like, here, just seems that fuel tank size on the small side:
Tank size 2 gallons...

2 Imperial Gallon = 9L (approx)
or
2 US Gallons are 7.5L. (approx).


Hmmnn, I see fuel-extending solution opportunities...! (FESO!)  :biggrin:
Chris






Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 07:05:48 am
IMS, Clarke, Acerbis, Safari will all have tanks for these bikes in no time.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 07:30:30 am
Service intervals on the 250 were a lengthy 12000km. Could this be the bike the "gods" have been waiting for? A genuine second bike for some to have alongside their big ds machines. Will be very interesting to see what price it will come it at. Don't expect anything less than a 100k!

Never - if you look at the USD price it will be at least 120-130K+ and will need to compete with the KTM 500XCW at about 120K

Lets face it Honda need all the help they can get in the Adventure market  :lol8:  :pot: They have nothing in the mid and lower CC sector. They have already taken a 250 farm bike and pimped and tummy tucked it to be a faux mini 'rally bike' with an overinflated price. ::) . This is the same strategy. The 450 is really an MX  competition bike that has also been recycled, hyped and tummy tucked and facelifted to plug a market gap. Not to say they will not sell and do the job of an adventure light bike as some people desperately want a lighter adventure bike (ask BMW  ;) )  Yes the 6 speed will be nice as will decent suspension (49mm forks)ė- seat and ergos will be hard, will need better fuel range, engine will remain vibey even if they try and tame it with the mapping .
It is what it is - but not sure it is the game changer some think. But yes the Honda fanboys will come out and get excited.  :ricky:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 07:37:15 am
New 450X with 6 gears!
My all-time favorite just got better

(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2019-Honda-CRF450X-First-Look-enduro-off-road-motorcycle-8.jpg)
Wow  :drif:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Scalpel on May 24, 2018, 08:02:50 am
Maybe this will be revealed at Kyalami this week end? We can only hope! :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: ZK1 on May 24, 2018, 08:30:45 am
Yes I also think R130k +

If you look what MX bikes cost these days.

I bought my KX250R For I think it was R42000.00 new in 2007, and a mate of mine around R60 000.00 for his KX450R in 2008 so in 10 years MX bikes have almost doubled in price......crazy....

I am going to be bikeless for a while still.....but when I do I won't be able to buy new, maybe rather a second hand 690 or 701 that will be 10 years old by the time it comes into my budget.....but my business WILL boom in the next 2 years then I will buy 5 new ones. :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Cracker on May 24, 2018, 08:32:59 am
I see a sub-frame that will carry zero luggage on the L. A cush -sprocket is lekker, until you gotta replace.

Not sure about slabbing it with this type of bike but if you use a trailer to get close to your riding areas, like I did back in the KLR days, it'll work.

But for a few negatives, I think it's a great idea.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 24, 2018, 08:40:10 am
32k rebuild 1k oil changes
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 08:46:20 am
Never - if you look at the USD price it will be at least 120-130K+ and will need to compete with the KTM 500XCW at about 120K

Lets face it Honda need all the help they can get in the Adventure market  :lol8:  :pot: They have nothing in the mid and lower CC sector. They have already taken a 250 farm bike and pimped and tummy tucked it to be a faux mini 'rally bike' with an overinflated price. ::) . This is the same strategy. The 450 is really an MX  competition bike that has also been recycled, hyped and tummy tucked and facelifted to plug a market gap. Not to say they will not sell and do the job of an adventure light bike as some people desperately want a lighter adventure bike (ask BMW  ;) )  Yes the 6 speed will be nice as will decent suspension (49mm forks)ė- seat and ergos will be hard, will need better fuel range, engine will remain vibey even if they try and tame it with the mapping .
It is what it is - but not sure it is the game changer some think. But yes the Honda fanboys will come out and get excited. 


The Honda Branches ie Honda SA  :drif:operate on what they call the Honda Dollar which is basically an average exchange rate across all currencies, This generally works in our favor so you can not take US or UK rates and just convert. It also depends on which of there many factories they decide to Manufacture the bike. I would say Honda is now doing well in ADV market if you look at world wide sales of AT and CRF250l and R. They certainly dont look at SA as a Market they must aim for with the Mickey mouse sales we do here. If I read right the suspension same as the 450X everyone educated Knows how good that is.  131kgs full up that is pretty much a game changer with Honda reliability. I am dying to know the HP my guess around 40.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: YoungGSer on May 24, 2018, 08:56:28 am
Donít base bike prices on SA on what the exchange rate is. Fortunately in SA bikes are cheaper than most other countries. A fully loaded GSA in the UK will cost you well over R300k as an example. A KTM500 is about R145k.


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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 08:59:48 am
Around 40HP would be about in line with the other engine iterations - mapping adjustments will tame it a bit. When I said 120-130K I was not doing a straight conversion which would take it to the R140K mark - rather looking at where they could afford to peg it. Yes the SA market is minuscule in the bigger picture and this bike and hype is aimed squarely at the USA market. And yes the suspension is off the X but plushed out it seems - at least it does not have 43mm sprongs like the AT  ::) Don't get me wrong it should be a useful weapon. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on May 24, 2018, 09:08:07 am
Only reason to buy this over a normal X is because the more reliable engine........
The big question is, would it be more reliable?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 09:10:32 am
With CRF450X pushing out 60HP I think 40HP is very conservative if you do a straight conversion of HP per cc using the CRF250L you come out at 42HP. This could be as much as 50HP.
I hope so.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Operator on May 24, 2018, 09:31:11 am
If this thing is going to have a weight of more than 150kg and horsepower of less than 45 hp and selling for more than R130 000, there would
be really no incentive to buy this bike apart from being a (blindly) follower of everything Honda.

For the same kind of money you can buy a KTM690/Husqvarna701 , with a weight of less than 150kg, engine of 67 hp and
selling just above R130 000 currently.

I know which one I would choose. :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 09:37:45 am
With CRF450X pushing out 60HP I think 40HP is very conservative if you do a straight conversion of HP per cc using the CRF250L you come out at 42HP. This could be as much as 50HP.
I hope so.

Not sure about the 60HP - I thought it was about 45HP?  ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 09:38:11 am
The wet weight is 131KGS using The KTM system which is dry weights means dry weight around 120Kilos. This is going to be a proper weapon. My educated Guess on Price about 110K
coming from experience ex Honda Dealer.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 09:38:56 am
If this thing is going to have a weight of more than 150kg and horsepower of less than 45 hp and selling for more than R130 000, there would
be really no incentive to buy this bike apart from being a (blindly) follower of everything Honda.

For the same kind of money you can buy a KTM690/Husqvarna701 , with a weight of less than 150kg, engine of 67 hp and
selling just above R130 000 currently.

I know which one I would choose. :deal:

No ways it will be 150kg
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Operator on May 24, 2018, 09:41:36 am
If this thing is going to have a weight of more than 150kg and horsepower of less than 45 hp and selling for more than R130 000, there would
be really no incentive to buy this bike apart from being a (blindly) follower of everything Honda.

For the same kind of money you can buy a KTM690/Husqvarna701 , with a weight of less than 150kg, engine of 67 hp and
selling just above R130 000 currently.

I know which one I would choose. :deal:

No ways it will be 150kg

To amend it into Rally guise for being proper dualsport/adventure bike, it might just end up being 150 kg+
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 09:47:23 am
If this thing is going to have a weight of more than 150kg and horsepower of less than 45 hp and selling for more than R130 000, there would
be really no incentive to buy this bike apart from being a (blindly) follower of everything Honda.

For the same kind of money you can buy a KTM690/Husqvarna701 , with a weight of less than 150kg, engine of 67 hp and
selling just above R130 000 currently.

I know which one I would choose. :deal:

No ways it will be 150kg

To amend it into Rally guise for being proper dualsport/adventure bike, it might just end up being 150 kg+

Ja guess it would creep up with larger tank etc ... the 250 Rally is 145kg wet!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 09:48:00 am
Its on the Web Prokevin site 2018 450x Model 59.9HP however it would probably be advisable to wait till Honda releases them. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 09:50:51 am
Quote from: BiG DoM on Today at 09:38:56 am
Quote from: Operator on Today at 09:31:11 am
If this thing is going to have a weight of more than 150kg and horsepower of less than 45 hp and selling for more than R130 000, there would
be really no incentive to buy this bike apart from being a (blindly) follower of everything Honda.

For the same kind of money you can buy a KTM690/Husqvarna701 , with a weight of less than 150kg, engine of 67 hp and
selling just above R130 000 currently.

I know which one I would choose. :deal:

No ways it will be 150kg

To amend it into Rally guise for being proper dualsport/adventure bike, it might just end up being 150 kg+


The CRF250L is 144KGS wet the Rally 157KGS wet my Guess using these figures the Current 450L 131KGS wet it will easily come in under 150KGS.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on May 24, 2018, 10:12:21 am
I dont see a helluva advantage to what I already have which all in cost about 35k, with reg docs etc??
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 10:12:58 am
There you go!  :thumleft: :ricky: :ricky:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on May 24, 2018, 10:13:23 am
The bike also features a bigger titanium fuel tank with capacity of 7.6 litres. Honda says that the bike gets a new radiator along with a strong lithium-ion battery and an AC generator which supplies the LED lights on the bike with power. And you have standard stuff such as a stand, horn, rear-view mirrors and speedometer along with the LED tail lights which take the weight of the bike to a mere 131 kg. kerb weight

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/2019-honda-crf450l-revealed-not-coming-to-india-1856841

https://www.dirtaction.com.au/news/33032/33032.htm
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on May 24, 2018, 10:14:38 am
Mine has a much bigger tank and I dont ride at night! :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on May 24, 2018, 10:15:07 am
I dont see a helluva advantage to what I already have which all in cost about 35k, with reg docs etc??

The L will probably have larger oil capacity and longer service intervals (and less power)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on May 24, 2018, 10:25:53 am
32k rebuild 1k oil changes

No thanks.
Then ill take a road worthy wr or crf.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Motties on May 24, 2018, 10:26:48 am
I dont see a helluva advantage to what I already have which all in cost about 35k, with reg docs etc??
Miss my 450X. Is that front mudguard off a Husky? Nice modern look compared to the original.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on May 24, 2018, 10:27:44 am
Think a KTM200
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on May 24, 2018, 10:36:00 am
I see a sub-frame that will carry zero luggage on the L. A cush -sprocket is lekker, until you gotta replace.

Not sure about slabbing it with this type of bike but if you use a trailer to get close to your riding areas, like I did back in the KLR days, it'll work.

But for a few negatives, I think it's a great idea.

Have you seen the subframes of the current 450x.. and amazingly luggage gets carried on it  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on May 24, 2018, 10:40:16 am
I dont see a helluva advantage to what I already have which all in cost about 35k, with reg docs etc??

Sorry .. how often are you changing that oil? 15 hours.. how often are you doing valve clearances? probably 20 - 25 hours

Come now dude.. look at the bike being offered.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on May 24, 2018, 10:41:46 am
Luggage no issues
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 10:45:11 am
I see a sub-frame that will carry zero luggage on the L. A cush -sprocket is lekker, until you gotta replace.

Not sure about slabbing it with this type of bike but if you use a trailer to get close to your riding areas, like I did back in the KLR days, it'll work.

But for a few negatives, I think it's a great idea.

Have you seen the subframes of the current 450x.. and amazingly luggage gets carried on it  :thumleft:

Have you seen the changes to the new 450R frame and subframe to save further weight? Will not carry a lunchbox  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on May 24, 2018, 10:47:51 am
Seems like a great replacement for my XR400R - at a Price!!
As for the 32000 km first major service, the way I understand is for a major strip-down so probably including piston, rings, valves etc. - major $ then.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 24, 2018, 10:48:17 am
I dont see a helluva advantage to what I already have which all in cost about 35k, with reg docs etc??

 :thumleft:

And you don't have to deal with Honda agents. Buddy of ours is having a nightmare with his brand new AT
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on May 24, 2018, 11:13:50 am
I dont see a helluva advantage to what I already have which all in cost about 35k, with reg docs etc??

 :thumleft:

And you don't have to deal with Honda agents. Buddy of ours is having a nightmare with his brand new AT

 ::)

I was waiting for the Honda Agent comment.. I have a friend who has a problem with BMW agents and his new GS.. whats the point?

People buy bikes based on what they will use them for.. if everyone didnt buy bikes because of agents no bikes would get sold.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on May 24, 2018, 11:17:52 am
Plastics are notorious for their poor resale value, I cant help but wonder what the case will be with the L.
Would the market see it more like and DR/XR type of bike, or will it be the same as the enduro/crossers?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 24, 2018, 11:22:38 am
I dont see a helluva advantage to what I already have which all in cost about 35k, with reg docs etc??

 :thumleft:

And you don't have to deal with Honda agents. Buddy of ours is having a nightmare with his brand new AT

 ::)

I was waiting for the Honda Agent comment.. I have a friend who has a problem with BMW agents and his new GS.. whats the point?

People buy bikes based on what they will use them for.. if everyone didnt buy bikes because of agents no bikes would get sold.

Honda even managed to screw up my test ride at SA bike fest. I am a solid Honda fan but I'll buy out of warrantee
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 11:34:46 am
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: XRRX on May 24, 2018, 11:35:25 am
You just can't get everybody happy - especially if they refused to be "impressed" by anything other than their favourite brand ...  :deal:
I belief this bike is going to be a winner - it is supposedly what everybody  ::) was asking for all the time - now all the excuses!! ???

Personally I always have great expectations in terms of quality & reliability of any Honda product!! Do they make mistakes - seldom - but they do .... my AT "shock wear" complaint thread... But they also usually fix their mistakes quickly! ...albeit not always admitting to it!  :xxbah:
Great outcome to "that thread" is all the admissions of imperfections/problems on KTM's (and other) all hyped WP suspension - and I always thought they were so great - at least suspension wise ...  :-[ :-[

Nevertheless, Honda seems serious about the DS market at last - great times!!!  :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 11:38:22 am
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..

A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 11:42:31 am
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..

 :scratch:  Hey we live in the Wild East  O0
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 24, 2018, 11:48:24 am
This is promising! Hopefully the first of many, but knowing Honda the potentially high price might the end up positioning it against the 690/701.

Indeed, but i must say, even though I think it's ugly as hell compared to a 690/701 I will definitely consider something like this depending on the weight and price of course.

This might just be the holy grail MANY MANY have been waiting for.  450 lightweight thumper, modern 6 speed and reliable without MX service intervals.  I'd buy it.  WilI replace my 690 for it.  I highly doubt it.  My bet is this 450 will be porkier than the 690.

But this is the first thing from Honda that truly excites me in ....well...forever.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Gťrrard on May 24, 2018, 11:49:22 am
Looks like a very nice useful bike. Dry weight on a 650 is around 170kg. Kit it out and you sit with a 200kg bike. Kit this bike out for touring and you have  160kg bike. I can use that.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on May 24, 2018, 11:50:32 am
So, what we have here is a DRZ400 with FI, six gears and a cush drive.  Granted, these innovations are welcome additions that will be key differentiaters to the DRZ but I think I'm being kind in the use of the word 'innovation'.

DRZ is still available in Oz. I can't think of any other 'long service interval' bikes that compete in this segment. Anyone else know of anything else available?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 24, 2018, 11:56:41 am
If this thing is going to have a weight of more than 150kg and horsepower of less than 45 hp and selling for more than R130 000, there would
be really no incentive to buy this bike apart from being a (blindly) follower of everything Honda.

For the same kind of money you can buy a KTM690/Husqvarna701 , with a weight of less than 150kg, engine of 67 hp and
selling just above R130 000 currently.

I know which one I would choose. :deal:

And if you buy in November / December you can shave R30k off of that  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 12:01:13 pm
A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:


I think you would be suprised how many 250Ls are cruising around the world. Some us lightys do not need big bikes to travel 130KPH.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 12:08:22 pm
A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:


I think you would be suprised how many 250Ls are cruising around the world. Some us lightys do not need big bikes to travel 130KPH.

But nevertheless ride 1000CC bikes? ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Hendrew on May 24, 2018, 12:10:36 pm
Al wat ek weet is dat ek definitief een gan koop.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 12:12:49 pm
But nevertheless ride 1000CC bikes?

I have one remember we rode together BIg Bash through Lesotho
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 12:13:49 pm
So, what we have here is a DRZ400 with FI, six gears and a cush drive.  Granted, these innovations are welcome additions that will be key differentiaters to the DRZ but I think I'm being kind in the use of the word 'innovation'.

DRZ is still available in Oz. I can't think of any other 'long service interval' bikes that compete in this segment. Anyone else know of anything else available?
Exactly this is the bike we all wanted when the DRZ was available with it's short comings of a 6th gear and maybe some extra oomph especially for the S model. This L and Rally will be winners and I'm so happy that a Japanese manufacturer at last listened to what the costumer wants. Hopefully the other big 3 will follow suit. Japanese bike sold as a DS from the factory will be sorted so don't worry too much about service intervals etc.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on May 24, 2018, 12:18:39 pm
But nevertheless ride 1000CC bikes?

I have one remember we rode together BIg Bash through Lesotho
Thats what Doms saying
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 12:22:32 pm
But nevertheless ride 1000CC bikes?

I have one remember we rode together BIg Bash through Lesotho
Thats what Doms saying

exactement  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 12:22:55 pm
So, what we have here is a DRZ400 with FI, six gears and a cush drive.  Granted, these innovations are welcome additions that will be key differentiaters to the DRZ but I think I'm being kind in the use of the word 'innovation'.

DRZ is still available in Oz. I can't think of any other 'long service interval' bikes that compete in this segment. Anyone else know of anything else available?
Exactly this is the bike we all wanted when the DRZ was available with it's short comings of a 6th gear and maybe some extra oomph especially for the S model. This L and Rally will be winners and I'm so happy that a Japanese manufacturer at last listened to what the costumer wants. Hopefully the other big 3 will follow suit. Japanese bike sold as a DS from the factory will be sorted so don't worry too much about service intervals etc


Exactly right. I also fear the DRZ s time might be up due to emissions that is why its not available here. Hondas timing could be spot on.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: dirtyXT on May 24, 2018, 12:24:28 pm
 :sip: looks good to me! but not more than 100k.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 12:26:51 pm
I think this bike has my name on it when it comes out in a Rally. I will trade the AT. I rode the CRF250Rally to Angies it was a lot of fun. Even though very pap.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 24, 2018, 12:28:42 pm
Its not gonna be a cheap bike. Unfortunately quality costs money! :snorting:

I like it a lot!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 12:31:56 pm
New 450X with 6 gears!
My all-time favorite just got better

(https://2yrh403fk8vd1hz9ro2n46dd-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2019-Honda-CRF450X-First-Look-enduro-off-road-motorcycle-8.jpg)
Hail the new Baja 1000 King  8)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 12:32:19 pm
I think this bike has my name on it when it comes out in a Rally. I will trade the AT. I rode the CRF250Rally to Angies it was a lot of fun. Even though very pap.

So it did not "cruise" there?  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 12:34:35 pm
No but it will cruise at 110 quite happily just need a few more HP. The fact that 450 is going to be lighter and have the extra grunt seems like it ticks the boxes.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 12:45:34 pm
This bike is going to break ADVrider, already lots of talk about them. Honda sure kept this as a nice surprise.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 24, 2018, 12:46:10 pm
even though people say REAL adventure riders make up 10% of the market - I wonder if that is true looking at the new comers. Hope this is awesome, with a bigger tank Honda! and plusher seat
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 12:53:55 pm
Titanium tank is sexy, too bad it will be the first thing to go
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 01:23:43 pm
Titanium tank is sexy, too bad it will be the first thing to go

Use it for water
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 24, 2018, 01:44:21 pm
Titanium tank is sexy, too bad it will be the first thing to go

Use it for water

www.crfsonly.com these guys are most probably already busy with after market kit for this bike!..

Edit: there are already a 25l an 14l Acerbis tanks for the crf450x, will it fit?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: armpump on May 24, 2018, 01:50:55 pm
Will be a good seller in states for trail riders connecting trails for sure.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on May 24, 2018, 02:19:20 pm
Hibo suka wena , ek moes jare lank droog brood vreet en swart koffie drink en my kinders moes ophou sweets eet, sodat ek n 2de handse 701 kan koop.
En hier is ouens wat `n 10  000 USD bike wil bykoop by hulle vloot.
Klomp spoiled brats ;)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 24, 2018, 02:21:09 pm
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on May 24, 2018, 02:41:09 pm
short oil change aka service intervals is very disappointing. So much promise but now if the last video is to be believed then all were getting is a slightly heavy plated enduro bike  :'(  .

All we need is this but with a 5000km service interval. Hell even a 3000km interval would do.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 24, 2018, 02:43:14 pm
This guy is speaking KaK and just assuming things as he goes along he is quoting 250 numbers ie claimed HP 24HP that is the Honda 250L. I also do not believe rebuild at 32000KMs that is the 450X territory a major service as stated by Honda is not a rebuild. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on May 24, 2018, 02:57:14 pm
Man I sincerely hope you're right.

If we can get a slightly down tuned dual sported enduro based bike with an increased service interval it will be amazing  :ricky:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: armpump on May 24, 2018, 03:16:25 pm
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 03:21:52 pm
short oil change aka service intervals is very disappointing. So much promise but now if the last video is to be believed then all were getting is a slightly heavy plated enduro bike  :'(  .

All we need is this but with a 5000km service interval. Hell even a 3000km interval would do.

SURPRISE!  :o
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on May 24, 2018, 03:31:25 pm
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..

A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:

Astually Dom mine tops out at 165kmh and cruizes all day at 130km/h
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 03:36:20 pm
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..

A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:

Astually Dom mine tops out at 165kmh and cruizes all day at 130km/h

Clearly you have an all day cruiser.  :lol8:  I see a Harley on your horizon.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on May 24, 2018, 03:55:09 pm
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..

A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:

Astually Dom mine tops out at 165kmh and cruizes all day at 130km/h

Clearly you have an all day cruiser.  :lol8:  I see a Harley on your horizon.  :imaposer:

Waiting for you to buy one. You know Harleys need a crowd!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 04:22:57 pm
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..

A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:

Astually Dom mine tops out at 165kmh and cruizes all day at 130km/h

Clearly you have an all day cruiser.  :lol8:  I see a Harley on your horizon.  :imaposer:

Waiting for you to buy one. You know Harleys need a crowd!

Over my dead  body - they do less that f@ckall for me.  ???
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on May 24, 2018, 04:40:28 pm
Hi Edgy I would like to know how you got that bike through roadworthy. Also the new 450l has balancing shafts for less vibration and long 6 gear for cruising..

A 450 cruising - now that is funny  :imaposer:

Astually Dom mine tops out at 165kmh and cruizes all day at 130km/h

Clearly you have an all day cruiser.  :lol8:  I see a Harley on your horizon.  :imaposer:

Waiting for you to buy one. You know Harleys need a crowd!

Over my dead  body - they do less that f@ckall for me.  ???

Thank You Thats My Point
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 24, 2018, 05:14:31 pm
Specs in english, not American https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 24, 2018, 05:18:57 pm
short oil change aka service intervals is very disappointing. So much promise but now if the last video is to be believed then all were getting is a slightly heavy plated enduro bike  :'(  .

All we need is this but with a 5000km service interval. Hell even a 3000km interval would do.

So they are trying to build a KTM 500 XCW  :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: katana on May 24, 2018, 05:24:11 pm
short oil change aka service intervals is very disappointing. So much promise but now if the last video is to be believed then all were getting is a slightly heavy plated enduro bike  :'(  .

All we need is this but with a 5000km service interval. Hell even a 3000km interval would do.

So they are trying to build a KTM 500 XCW  :lol8:
Just giving America what the WRF450 has always been...  Everyone knows you can - always could as well - register a new WR450F on the road right?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Cracker on May 24, 2018, 05:28:27 pm
They keep comparing it to an R. Is that just marketing speech or is the X even more different ...............
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 05:43:39 pm
They keep comparing it to an R. Is that just marketing speech or is the X even more different ...............

Bullshit baffles brains.  :3some: It is a recycled 450RXYZWhatever
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 24, 2018, 05:48:49 pm
I understand it's based on the X which is based on the R
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 24, 2018, 06:27:32 pm
Specs in english, not American https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10

Oil and filter change every 1000km and 30 000 rebuild! WTF! No thank you, not interested anymore!.. :xxbah:

This is just another KTM eduro..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 24, 2018, 06:41:08 pm
Specs in english, not American https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10

Oil and filter change every 1000km and 30 000 rebuild! WTF! No thank you, not interested anymore!.. :xxbah:

This is just another KTM eduro..

if that is true, then this is a cheapshot from Honda
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 06:47:20 pm
A dedicated enduro bike like a X or KTM 500 can easily do 3000km service intervals. This L should be able to do even more, what is oil capacity ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: J-dog on May 24, 2018, 06:58:55 pm
On these bikes, it's simple enough to change the oil and sparks any time you want. And it's quite fun to do wif a beer in your garage. Don't let that put you off.  :3some:

A 30,000k top build is fair enough. The old XT's etc needed the same.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 24, 2018, 06:59:18 pm
I somehow have  hunch that whoever put out that press release  on that hondanews.eu website, should be properly slapped. It just doesn't add up, so I think people are getting all freaked out for nothing. Here is the passage that seems just surreal:

"Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-riderís perspective is the engineís reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450Lís build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

This shit just doesn't make any sense. I for one am perfectly happy with the 1000 km oil change and got really hopeful when I read about top end every 32k km. Because after riding almost 10k km on KTM 500 (which this bike seems to be, or at least I hope is, targeted at - no wonder as it is THE benchmark for dual sporting in US) I would happily stretch that to about 3000 - 5000 km (500 supposedly requires oil change every 15 hours - I have ridden 12 days and 2000 km or Kaokoland without one and without slightest worry). Those are clearly racing intervals to cover their ass - and if they can make bike at least as reliable/durable as KTM (which is big if as 450 KTMs proved to be much more reliable than Hondas in Dakar conditions), this is complete red herring.

But what got me really excited was top end rebuild at 32k km (again, I'm pretty sure they are just conservative for legal reasons, but even if), because it indicated that they will not castrate the power too much, which was the last unknown in the equasion. But 25hp??? WTF - that is the same as 250. What is the point of this bike then?

I think the info is just incorrect. Either they will keep it purebred (as them sticking with proper suspension seems to indicate) and will specify relatively intense service intervals - which is my preferred option, especially as the real world experience with many 500 shows that those can be stretched much further. Or the will do the usual Honda trick of castrating the power for people who do not appreciate actually riding motorcycles, just don't want to get their hands dirty, but then the service intervals don't make sense.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: J-dog on May 24, 2018, 07:01:54 pm
I somehow have  hunch that whoever put out that press release  on that hondanews.eu website, should be properly slapped. It just doesn't add up, so I think people are getting all freaked out for nothing. Here is the passage that seems just surreal:

"Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-riderís perspective is the engineís reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450Lís build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

This shit just doesn't make any sense. I for one am perfectly happy with the 1000 km oil change and got really hopeful when I read about top end every 32k km. Because after riding almost 10k km on KTM 500 (which this bike seems to be, or at least I hope is, targeted at - no wonder as it is THE benchmark for dual sporting in US) I would happily stretch that to about 3000 - 5000 km (500 supposedly requires oil change every 15 hours - I have ridden 12 days and 2000 km or Kaokoland without one and without slightest worry). Those are clearly racing intervals to cover their ass - and if they can make bike at least as reliable/durable as KTM (which is big if as 450 KTMs proved to be much more reliable than Hondas in Dakar conditions), this is complete red herring.

But what got me really excited was top end rebuild at 32k km (again, I'm pretty sure they are just conservative for legal reasons, but even if), because it indicated that they will not castrate the power too much, which was the last unknown in the equasion. But 25hp??? WTF - that is the same as 250. What is the point of this bike then?

I think the info is just incorrect. Either they will keep it purebred (as them sticking with proper suspension seems to indicate) and will specify relatively intense service intervals - which is my preferred option, especially as the real world experience with many 500 shows that those can be stretched much further. Or the will do the usual Honda trick of castrating the power for people who do not appreciate actually riding motorcycles, just don't want to get their hands dirty, but then the service intervals don't make sense.

What I said above  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 24, 2018, 07:07:58 pm
I somehow have  hunch that whoever put out that press release  on that hondanews.eu website, should be properly slapped. It just doesn't add up, so I think people are getting all freaked out for nothing. Here is the passage that seems just surreal:

"Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-riderís perspective is the engineís reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450Lís build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

This shit just doesn't make any sense. I for one am perfectly happy with the 1000 km oil change and got really hopeful when I read about top end every 32k km. Because after riding almost 10k km on KTM 500 (which this bike seems to be, or at least I hope is, targeted at - no wonder as it is THE benchmark for dual sporting in US) I would happily stretch that to about 3000 - 5000 km (500 supposedly requires oil change every 15 hours - I have ridden 12 days and 2000 km or Kaokoland without one and without slightest worry). Those are clearly racing intervals to cover their ass - and if they can make bike at least as reliable/durable as KTM (which is big if as 450 KTMs proved to be much more reliable than Hondas in Dakar conditions), this is complete red herring.

But what got me really excited was top end rebuild at 32k km (again, I'm pretty sure they are just conservative for legal reasons, but even if), because it indicated that they will not castrate the power too much, which was the last unknown in the equasion. But 25hp??? WTF - that is the same as 250. What is the point of this bike then?

I think the info is just incorrect. Either they will keep it purebred (as them sticking with proper suspension seems to indicate) and will specify relatively intense service intervals - which is my preferred option, especially as the real world experience with many 500 shows that those can be stretched much further. Or the will do the usual Honda trick of castrating the power for people who do not appreciate actually riding motorcycles, just don't want to get their hands dirty, but then the service intervals don't make sense.

Yes 25hp for a 450 motor doesn't sound right! I think one can expect at least 45hp here. I really want to like this bike! Let's wait and see..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rover on May 24, 2018, 07:39:36 pm
Looks good to me,
ticks most of the boxes
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 24, 2018, 07:46:55 pm
No way it can be 24hp. What Honda could have also have done is build a 500 version of the 250L motor that would give a comfortable 40hp and 12000km service intervals but wont be exiting as a enduro derived engine.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 24, 2018, 08:00:38 pm
No way it can be 24hp. What Honda could have also have done is build a 500 version of the 250L motor that would give a comfortable 40hp and 12000km service intervals but wont be exiting as a enduro derived engine.

Agree - that is 250 HP! The new 2019 R they seem to be hyping at near 60HP (which is hard to believe) and it would certainly need race type servicing and rebuilds. Most previous models were in the 45HP range as I remember. I am sure this one would be in the 40 ballpark at least as that would acceptable for a 450 Adv imho.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 24, 2018, 08:35:34 pm
even though its acceptable for an enduro to rebuild around 30k km, its not for an adventure bike. you rack up miles much more quickly.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on May 24, 2018, 08:38:33 pm
Just as a point of order  :imaposer: I've just ordered the top-end parts for a KTM 690 with 32 000 km on it.  Burning oil.

Back to the Honda:  I have a CRF450X and the perimeter frame makes carrying a lot of fuel a real bitch.  A little bit sits between the frame rails, the rest on top, making it top heavy.  You can't go outside the frames without making the bike exceptionally wide. This will be exactly the same.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bells on May 24, 2018, 08:41:00 pm
Specs in english, not American https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10

Oil and filter change every 1000km and 30 000 rebuild! WTF! No thank you, not interested anymore!.. :xxbah:

This is just another KTM eduro..

Probably a typo, with 18kw its more likely to be 10k


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 24, 2018, 08:46:56 pm
30000 is plenty for the type of riding a bike like this will do. Will take a few years to reach


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on May 24, 2018, 08:48:21 pm
30000 is plenty for the type of riding a bike like this will do. Will take a few years to reach


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/quote
Very true :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 24, 2018, 08:52:56 pm
even though its acceptable for an enduro to rebuild around 30k km, its not for an adventure bike. you rack up miles much more quickly.

This is not adventure bike - it is dual sport. I.e. plated enduro bike, which is exactly what dual sport is supposed to be according to its origin in US. How long you think it takes to do 30k km on bike like this if used properly? I have been on sabatical for a year now mostly riding bikes, and most of that KTM 500. And I have done 9.5k km in that year. Three trips to Lesotho each two weeks or so, ride through Kaokoland and Damaraland, ride around Okavango detla, many weekend outings to De Wildt. I'm probably going to go and do West Coast next week or two. Most people will never even manage one of those trips. The key point on those trips is the density of experience, not km ridden (getting to Kaokoland and back to Joburg took us 4 days and over 3k km in bakkie - the trip itself was 2k km and 12 days, 100 km in Lesotho over mountains is very different game than 100 km in Cederberg). If you are after quantity rather than quality in your trips and measure your adventures in kms, this is IMO completely wrong bike for it (at least if it is what I think it is - i.e. Honda's response to KTM 500).

So how exactly you expect to rack up 30k km quickly? I will tell you how - by using the bike completely wrong. If you are looking for bike to ride easy peasy dirt and tar, if you are looking for commuter, or for a bike to ride to WD bash once a year, you are looking at the wrong bike. This one will do it with added maintenance and horrible discomfort, but it is complete waste of great suspension and - hopefully - full fat engine build to provide enjoyment, full red blood enjoyment - not transportation. Almost anything will do better for transportation than this - from any scooter to Triumph Rocket. If you want to go round the world, again - almost anything, including the CRF250 will be better than this, unless you are really going off the beaten track, which almost nobody on RTW trips does. Its highways all the way for most of them and traditional multicylinder adv bike will do much much better.

Even if the oil interval is 10k km and rebuild at 300k km, that quality suspension which seems to have been confirmed will require much more care than dumbed down less sophisticated, but more robust suspensions on 'normal' adventure bikes.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 24, 2018, 09:12:09 pm
On these bikes, it's simple enough to change the oil and sparks any time you want. And it's quite fun to do wif a beer in your garage. Don't let that put you off.  :3some:

A 30,000k top build is fair enough. The old XT's etc needed the same.  :thumleft:

Nou praat jy darem lekker kak......watter "ou" XT's het net 30 000kms op n enjin geloop??

N XT500 sal 30 000kms haal sonder enjin olie. :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Cracker on May 24, 2018, 09:45:28 pm
My KLX450 is on 40 000 km now and it's had a few bits replaced - not a top-end rebuild. And it gets raced, not just dawdling around the country looking at the scenery.

I've had to replace the conrod, the camchain and it's on it's 3rd set of intake valves - just coz they're titanium. If they were SS, which they can be, they'd still be first generation.

Piston, rings, cylindr, valve guides, cams and other bits are all still in spec - yet the manual says they should be replaced every 1000km or so.

As long as you don't have to keep shimming/adjusting rockers on this Honda, it will be fine. Shimming is no biggee but repeatedly stripping a bike is not good for bolts, plastics or aluminium.

So, I wouldn't worry about a 30k rebuild. Unless it's a really kak engine, it shouldn't ever need it ............... not for a long long time.

You might need a lot of cable-ties to keep it all together after a 30 000 thrashing, though ..................
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 24, 2018, 09:48:36 pm
My KLX450 is on 40 000 km now and it's had a few bits replaced - not a top-end rebuild. And it gets raced, not just dawdling around the country looking at the scenery.

I've had to replace the conrod, the camchain and it's on it's 3rd set of intake valves - just coz they're titanium. If they were SS, which they can be, they'd still be first generation.

Piston, rings, cylindr, valve guides, cams and other bits are all still in spec - yet the manual says they should be replaced every 1000km or so.

As long as you don't have to keep shimming/adjusting rockers on this Honda, it will be fine. Shimming is no biggee but repeatedly stripping a bike is not good for bolts, plastics or aluminium.

So, I wouldn't worry about a 30k rebuild. Unless it's a really kak engine, it shouldn't ever need it ............... not for a long long time.

You might need a lot of cable-ties to keep it all together after a 30 000 thrashing, though ..................


Indeed! The factory covers it's own arse, assuming that every competition bike will always be ridden on the limiter all the time.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on May 25, 2018, 08:02:07 am
This bike sounds great but in a world were more and more people can only afford one bike, the WR250R and CRF250L actually do an excellent job of being the commercial tool and play thing, primary reason being that they have real world service intervals, are suitable for commuting and can still play.

In my mind, the 'L' in this bike simply means it's street legal, not necessarily street intended. It's an exercise for the American market of making an existing model street legal, so nothing new per se. The lack of an ABS option also shows clear intent because in most European countries, I think this is mandatory for road going bikes.

What I personally would have liked to see is a 450 with a robust engine (read long service intervals), broader flat seat like the L, an ABS as optional and a larger fuel tank....

This is not a complaint, it's just not closing the gap that the 650 class dual sports filled....at least not in my mind.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on May 25, 2018, 08:48:31 am
Agreed - doubt we will see it here
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rexc-w on May 25, 2018, 09:01:02 am
This bike sounds great but in a world were more and more people can only afford one bike, the WR250R and CRF250L actually do an excellent job of being the commercial tool and play thing, primary reason being that they have real world service intervals, are suitable for commuting and can still play.

In my mind, the 'L' in this bike simply means it's street legal, not necessarily street intended. It's an exercise for the American market of making an existing model street legal, so nothing new per se. The lack of an ABS option also shows clear intent because in most European countries, I think this is mandatory for road going bikes.

What I personally would have liked to see is a 450 with a robust engine (read long service intervals), broader flat seat like the L, an ABS as optional and a larger fuel tank....

This is not a complaint, it's just not closing the gap that the 650 class dual sports filled....at least not in my mind.

What he says  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 09:36:09 am
Agreed - doubt we will see it here

Evidently confirmed for release in SA - PD's have received a press release.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 25, 2018, 09:37:14 am
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 25, 2018, 09:50:01 am
I read 1.8 quart oil capacity that is a lot, same as a 250L and DRZ at around 1.7L so service intervals will be way more than 1000km. KTM 500 takes 1.2L.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: gser on May 25, 2018, 09:51:58 am
  . . . .I'll wait for the CRF450 "L" Rally ..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 25, 2018, 09:54:27 am
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 09:57:22 am
  . . . .I'll wait for the CRF450 "L" Rally ..

Presuming they will make one - we just speculating on that at this stage. ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 10:12:16 am
I read 1.8 quart oil capacity that is a lot, same as a 250L and DRZ at around 1.7L so service intervals will be way more than 1000km. KTM 500 takes 1.2L.

KTM500 takes 1.5 - 1.6l and has 15 hour official oil change interval. KTM 690 takes 1.7L and has 10k km oil change interval. Which quite frankly with my usage of 690 I will never do - I change oil in mine at about 5k km oar after every major trip.

Which brings me back to the point I've made already. First of all, I think some of not most of the published information is bullshit. I'm pretty sure that this bike doesn't have 18KW (if it does, it is dead straight away even with million km oil change), and I suspect that 1000 km oil interval info has a missing 0 in it (otherwise the comment about long service intervals in the same sentence is Monty Python sketch). But even if it does, it is directional at best. As I said KTM 500 can survive 2000 - 3000 km oil changes if used like dual sport no problem. At the same time I would never wait to recommended 10k km oil change on 690 if used properly off (even just for off trips - not racing). So even if this Honda has 10k km oil and filter change (like WR250R which has oil only at 5k), I think it would be smart move to change the oil more often if used properly. Exactly as people do with WR250R if they use it off, which they do because otherwise it is pointless to own it - with its top notch components and high price it is an equivalent of this 450, not the dumbed down cheap component and price 250L.


But even if the interval is 10k and it has 45HP, this bike IMO is not replacement for those no frills down to earth 650s like XR/DR, old XT, but rather a competitor to 500 which is very specialized and fringe market. Just looking on suspension it is clearly going to be expensive (ligthly less than whatever the 500 price will be at the moment) and it is too lightweight and high strung (assuming it has more than 18kw) to be comfortable/suitable enought for the standard Loskop/Cederberg trip.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 10:14:13 am
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: jaybiker on May 25, 2018, 10:22:16 am
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 25, 2018, 10:25:55 am
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\
Well pretty sure Honda did not think about the Wilddogs when designing this bike  :deal: Plated dual sports are big business in the US up to now mostly people had to build their own sans the KTM 500 / 350. They have 1000's of kilometers of trails to ride where a heavy bike just wont do. The tank will be no good and swapped out first. Not sure why they made it from titanium, surely more expensive and maybe heavier than  plastic ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on May 25, 2018, 10:30:57 am
It is a step in the right direction with the decline of the 650 class in favour of 200kg plus bikes, I am looking forward to seeing the new 6 speed mode here in SAl
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 10:35:23 am
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\
Well pretty sure Honda did not think about the Wilddogs when designing this bike  :deal: Plated dual sports are big business in the US up to now mostly people had to build their own sans the KTM 500 / 350. They have 1000's of kilometers of trails to ride where a heavy bike just wont do. The tank will be no good and swapped out first. Not sure why they made it from titanium, surely more expensive and maybe heavier than  plastic ?

The Titanium tanks are off the shelf due to being used on their MX bikes etc - weight saving and pressed out at the Honda cooking pot factory.  ;D  Will be good for drinking water  8). They clearly did not think that through properly. Honda is big in USA - look at Baja dominance for example.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 25, 2018, 10:41:13 am
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\

The SA market is a drop in the ocean , we do not feature at all in Honda's or any other factory's planning , but the American market as Sidetrack has already stated is enormous and this will be perfect for them . Who knows about the tank size , maybe the bike is capable of 20 to 25 km per litre , then we have a range of 150 to 200 km and that will be adequate for its application .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 25, 2018, 10:43:16 am
Just taking a detached interest, I don't see me buying one, but anyway....

A while ago a friend subscribed me to an American online mag that comes around frequently, and the latest issue reviews the latest CRF450 range. It's the kind of review full of gushing praise, with very little criticism, and they go into raptures about the L variant, in particular it's 2 US gallon fuel tank, for extended range!  ??? and they come to the conclusion that Honda have at last given customers everything that they have always been wishing for.

Clearly they don't know South Africans, particularly Wild Dogs!  :-\

The SA market is a drop in the ocean , we do not feature at all in Honda's or any other factory's planning , but the American market as Sidetrack has already stated is enormous and this will be perfect for them . Who knows about the tank size , maybe the bike is capable of 20 to 25 km per litre , then we have a range of 150 to 200 km and that will be adequate for its application .
450X we managed 25km/l and that was with the FCR carb. I still believe a well setup carb is just as fuel efficient as injection.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 10:48:01 am
Come on - the tank size is a non issue. 500 comes with about the same size tank. We all know that before we sneeze Acerbis, IMS and Safari Tanks will have bigger alternatives available - especially because this is Honda, which makes it potentially big seller in US.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 11:26:25 am
Come on - the tank size is a non issue. 500 comes with about the same size tank. We all know that before we sneeze Acerbis, IMS and Safari Tanks will have bigger alternatives available - especially because this is Honda, which makes it potentially big seller in US.

Exactly - working on it as we speak. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 25, 2018, 12:07:15 pm
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 12:16:42 pm
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

I call bullshit. Yes they been working 5 years on the R iteration of the X. Some proud Honda suit got an extra geisha for dinner for dreaming up this re-purposing (while in another part of the factory the developer of the CFR100L front forks was committing harikiri for his failure).  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 12:21:34 pm
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

Well, leaving aside that plated enduro is the best for me (and other probably 3 people), my point still stands. Sure it will have less HP than 500 (Honda always does it on the pretext of extended reliability and durability), but it will probably be relatively speaking close. Not sure where your comment about impressing WD comes from  - I generally don't get where this WD self-flaggelation streak manifested by many here comes from - if you think WDs are weirdos, why hang around?

But it looks to me that you threw it in as smoke screen to cover fact that you run out of argument as  you didn't address the key point I raised there to support my - admitedly speculative (as is everybody else's on this thread) argument. Top notch components and resulting high price. Unless that price (and top notch suspension which will necessisate it) is fake news, explain how high price of the bike will help manufacturer move units?

And BTW - I'm not advocating or dissing this bike (though it looks promising from my limited POV), just interpreting the data that has been presented in front of us. Unless that data is horribly incorrect (or actually correct in case of HP), this is not replacement of old school 650s, neither it is bigger brother to 250L. Which is both good and bad - depending on your POV.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 25, 2018, 12:23:20 pm
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

I call bullshit. Yes they been working 5 years on the R iteration of the X. Some proud Honda suit got an extra geisha for dinner for dreaming up this re-purposing (while in another part of the factory the developer of the CFR100L front forks was committing harikiri for his failure).  :imaposer:

 :lol8: Yes, most probably! I'm looking forward to test this!..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 25, 2018, 12:28:46 pm
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

I don't think this Honda would be competition for the KTM 500. The 500 will stay a more hardcore beast! Which is not always a good thing..

Then why leave the high spec and high maitenance, and most importantly very high price suspension in? And price it just lightly below 500 as they did in US (at least that is what I read somewhere - may be BS of course)?

That price alone indicates that this is not a typical practical Honda offering. So if it is not 'hardcore' enough (whatever that is) how could thay justify that price?

The 500 is rated at 58hp(according to Google) and the Honda won't be more that 45hp in other words much less hardcore/racy.
'Softer' approach than the 500. Which  will appeal to a bigger audience(usa) . Bike manufacturers want to move units , they don't want to impress WD's.. According to Honda they worked 5 years to create this machine. I dont think its just a plated enduro..Let's hope for the best.

I like it!

Well, leaving aside that plated enduro is the best for me (and other probably 3 people), my point still stands. Sure it will have less HP than 500 (Honda always does it on the pretext of extended reliability and durability), but it will probably be relatively speaking close. Not sure where your comment about impressing WD comes from  - I generally don't get where this WD self-flaggelation streak manifested by many here comes from - if you think WDs are weirdos, why hang around?

But it looks to me that you threw it in as smoke screen to cover fact that you run out of argument as  you didn't address the key point I raised there to support my - admitedly speculative (as is everybody else's on this thread) argument. Top notch components and resulting high price. Unless that price (and top notch suspension which will necessisate it) is fake news, explain how high price of the bike will help manufacturer move units?

And BTW - I'm not advocating or dissing this bike (though it looks promising from my limited POV), just interpreting the data that has been presented in front of us. Unless that data is horribly incorrect (or actually correct in case of HP), this is not replacement of old school 650s, neither it is bigger brother to 250L. Which is both good and bad - depending on your POV.

Eish relax boet! You are right man!...  :lol8: This is a friendly discussion not a competion of who knows most! Go have a cold one!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 12:35:00 pm
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: M3X3Z3 on May 25, 2018, 12:35:42 pm
About 5-6 years ago the Honda UK website listed a CRF450XL ( L or XL, I cant remeber) under their offroad bikes section.
It was a CRF450X + roadworthy kit + steel tank + conditional warranty clause that the bike not be ridden on tar for extended periods.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Battlestar on May 25, 2018, 12:41:29 pm
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)
:imaposer:

Your doing a great job  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 25, 2018, 02:05:14 pm
for the purpose of learning again, why would a high performance engine require oil changes at smaller intervals? Because of higher combustion pressure - blow by?

Thinking - why would it require a rebuild at 30k km? Tolerances different? not properly balanced.

Thinking of a mx racing bike, its WOT most of the time, but I don't get that it 'required a new top-end' just like that. What will happen if you don't rebuild the top-end?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Cracker on May 25, 2018, 02:07:54 pm
You'll save money  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on May 25, 2018, 02:27:55 pm
for the purpose of learning again, why would a high performance engine require oil changes at smaller intervals? Because of higher combustion pressure - blow by?

Thinking - why would it require a rebuild at 30k km? Tolerances different? not properly balanced.

Thinking of a mx racing bike, its WOT most of the time, but I don't get that it 'required a new top-end' just like that. What will happen if you don't rebuild the top-end?

I can only tell you what I think, maybe I am wrong  :-\

The modern 4 stroke MX bikes revs like (almost) the oldschool 2 strokes on the powerband. The wear will be excessive opposed to a normal low revving over-squire 650 Thumper. Take into consideration less oil, more heat= friction/wear
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on May 25, 2018, 02:41:17 pm
What he said.. its due to the amount of oil the bike holds.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 02:45:20 pm
What he said.. its due to the amount of oil the bike holds.

... and high revving  :o
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 25, 2018, 02:55:29 pm
interesting. thanks. So, imagine same engine with a rev limiter and 1L more oil. That might increase service interval
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 03:05:39 pm
interesting. thanks. So, imagine same engine with a rev limiter and 1L more oil. That might increase service interval

Appears they have tamed it with the mapping and some other internal mods for improved longevity including extra piston ring. Lets face it generally Honda engines are solid if not over abused. This bike will be up for the job - some personal customising as usual ... horses for courses.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 25, 2018, 04:05:11 pm
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)

@Xpat, I don't think you are chilled! Try some serotonin before going on a rant again!....
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 04:44:04 pm
@Fransw: Oh don't worry, I'm perfectly chilled. I haven't been gainfully employed (i.e. stressed) for over year, chilling at home in my underwear procrastinating on my next trip. So I'm using my time wisely and getting some excitement by putting up bullet-proof arguments on WD  8)

@Xpat, I don't think you are chilled! Try some serotonin before going on a rant again!....

OK, where do I get some? Do you sell any? Always a game for a substance experimentation...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 04:48:47 pm
interesting. thanks. So, imagine same engine with a rev limiter and 1L more oil. That might increase service interval

Appears they have tamed it with the mapping and some other internal mods for improved longevity including extra piston ring. Lets face it generally Honda engines are solid if not over abused. This bike will be up for the job - some personal customising as usual ... horses for courses.

As far as I can see the mods probably affecting HP Honda did in this case are: lower compression ratio and third ring on the piston. Heavier flywheel will give more inertia - which I think will push the power curve lower in the revs, just not sure if it affects max HP.

On the oil capacity, I'm kind of not sure - I'm sure more oil is better for it to loast longer but differences betwen 500 and 690 a very small while service interval very different. As I said KTM 500 has 1.5L of oil and recommended interval 15hours - depending on avg speed let's say 1000 km, while KTM 690 has 1.7 liter of oil and recommended interval 10k km. And 690 I think revs higher.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 04:56:49 pm
All brands always spec service and oil changes on potential race bikes very conservatively to protect themselves - this is based on race use. A heavier flywheel will rob some HP and is a favourite mod on an MX bike used for enduro - prevents stalling especially and spins up slower but as you say more inertia.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Hardy de Kock on May 25, 2018, 05:48:09 pm
ttention: Hardy (Specialsed Adventures)
24/05/2018


2019 HONDA CRF450L

New model updates: Using the CRF450R moto-crosser as a base, Honda's new road-legal dual-purpose motorcycle has a tough, lightweight chassis built to find all the available grip, powered by an engine that delivers strong, usable power right from the bottom. Durable, high quality parts and long service intervals aim for a worry-free riding and ownership experience.

Contents:

1 Introduction

2 Model overview

3 Key features

4 Technical specifications

1. Introduction

A true dual-purpose motorcycle should be many things; off-road it needs to be light weight, with quality suspension and handling ability that keeps life easy as the going gets harder. Its engine has to make good power and torque from the bottom up - the sort that is supremely usable, allowing the rider to find all the rear wheel grip possible, whatever the terrain.

All the attributes that make it great fun off-road also enable it to be really useful around town; narrow and nimble, a dual-purpose machine slips through gaps, soaks up the hits from rough roads and stays well ahead of traffic thanks to smart, low-gear acceleration. It also needs to be turn-key reliable, with sensible intervals between major service work.

Competition machines can make a solid base for dual-purpose adaptation. But there is much to consider. Race-level performance brings with it an intensive maintenance schedule, which is simply too much for many 'hobby' trail riders, who just want to push a button and go - and keep on going, Furthermore, a barely-disguised race bike can mean crucial road-going elements - lights, indicators, ignition switch - are not as user-friendly and durable as they should be.

Honda understands this, and with a desire to produce a dual-purpose bike that draws strongly on the fundamental performance of a race machine, yet with much more 'normal' service intervals and high-quality road ancillaries, has taken its CRF450R moto-crosser as the base to start from, and created the new CRF450L.

It is unmistakably a race-bred CRF - and looks it - but with the additions and modifications needed to make it both road legal and supremely useable in a trail environment. As such, the CRF450L is a complete package, as happy roosting trails as it is linking them up on-road. And with Honda engineering and build quality at its core, is sure to do so for years to come.

Mr M. Uchiyama, Large Project Leader (LPL) 19YM CRF450L:

"The CRF450L is about having maximum fun out on the dirt. It looks like a CRF450R because, really, it is - just a trail-friendly, road-legal version. That's what the 'L' stands for - 'legal'. It's been engineered to deliver excellent handling feel, with linear engine torque that helps the rider make the most of the available grip in all conditions. AND, it contains its HRC-derived CRF technology within a real-world service schedule."

2. Model Overview

The journey from full race to road legal trail was a detailed one for the CRF450L. Road legality required the engine to gain EURO4 compliance, while from a longevity and usability viewpoint, the power output and character, needed careful attention.

It's still a CRF450R; just one that's quieter, both mechanically from the chassis and engine, as well as its new exhaust. Both fuelling and ignition maps are now managed by 02 lambda sensor; compression ratio has been lowered and crank mass increased for improved drivability. The gearbox is a 6-speed - for longer legs on the road - and a cush drive has been added to the 18-inch rear wheel.

The plastics are lifted directly from the CRF450R and all lighting is LED, with the front headlight in particular throwing out a penetrating beam. Increased volume for the titanium fuel tank adds range and all the items that make the CRF450L ready to purchase as a licensed, road going machine - such as speedometer and horn - are present as standard.

3. Key Features

3.1 Engine

Based on the CRF450R, with first major service at 32,000km
EURO4 compliant, with electric start
Greater crank inertia improves drivability and feel for traction
6-speed gearbox
While the chassis was more straightforward to convert from its CRF450R moto-crosser specification to a dual-purpose performance level, the 449cc engine needed more consideration from Honda's engineers. Requirements were several: the need for it to pass EURO4 emissions and noise regulations, and to be usable for a wide variety of riders in many differing situations both on and off-road.

While the fundamental architecture of the four-valve Unicam powerplant remains the same, many details have been changed to support the broader role: the crank's mass has been increased, resulting in 13% more inertia which, for a trail rider, equals improved torque feel and response; valve timing has been revised to give the broader, smoother spread of power and torque; the gearbox is now 6-speed, rather than 5 for longer range use on tarmac; left and right engine covers wear outer covers to reduce noise;

Elsewhere, the ACG has been uprated, to provide the required electrical power for the LED lights and to maintain battery charge during lower-speed running. The battery itself is a high-volume unit.

Bore and stroke are unchanged from the CRF450R, at 96mm x 62.1mm, but the piston uses 3 rings instead of 2 for greater durability. Compression ratio is 12.0:1 (compared 13.5:1). The redesigned airbox feeds the PGM-FI, managed by a lambda sensor in the large-volume single exhaust (which replaces the 'stubby' dual-pipe design of the CRF450R). An Air Injection (AI) system and catalyser clean up the spent gases.

The four-valve Unicam cylinder head features a finger rocker arm on the inlet valves; valve lift is 7.7mm with 6.7mm exhaust valve lift. Inlet valve diameter is 38mm. The valve springs are oval in cross section and valve angle is 9į intake/10.5į exhaust.

The clutch spins 7 friction discs with a 2mm clutch plate efficiently dissipating heat; the springs generate a good, consistent connection. The front sprocket is a 13T, the rear 51T.

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-rider's perspective is the engine's reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450L's build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km.

3.2 Chassis

Drawn from the 18YM CRF450R, with minor adaptations for its dual purpose role
Full LED lighting, increased fuel tank volume and sidestand
Larger radiator volume, plus electric fan
Styling closely mirrors that of CRF450R
Having received a ground-up redesign in 2016, the CRF450R's chassis was a perfect place for the CRF450L to start out from, with changes to match the machine's vastly broader usage range, and road legal mission.

Firstly, the tapered dual-spar aluminium beam frame was made slightly wider at the swingarm pivot points, to allow for the greater engine width resulting from the 6-speed gearbox. The headstock was modified to mount a steering lock and the aluminium swingarm injected with urethane to reduce noise. The rear subframe is the same, with mounting point adjusted to take the taillight and the right-exit single exhaust muffler.

Rake and trail are set at 28.5į/122mm with wheelbase increased 18mm from the CRF450R to 1500mm, for greater stability. Both the R and the L feature 22mm fork offset.Wet weight is 130.8kg; seat height is 940mm.

A 49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork - adjustable for preload plus compression damping - is matched by a fully adjustable Showa rear shock, operated through Pro-Link. A 260mm wave-pattern disc delivers effective heat dissipation, power and feel from the two-piston brake caliper working it; a matching 240mm wave-pattern disc and single-piston caliper is at the rear.

Whereas the CRF450R machine uses a 19-inch rear wheel, the CRF450L's is an 18-inch (to fit enduro-spec tyres), with the addition of a cush drive to absorb chain shock; a sealed 520 chain is protected by a plastic chain guard. The front wheel is a 21-inch and both rims are finished in black. Tyres are sized 80/100-21 front and 120/80-18 rear.

The CRF450L's style draws fully on that of the CRF450R. Carried over are the rear mudguard, side panels and bash plate. Svelte side shrouds hide a larger radiator volume plus electric fan. All lighting (including the indicators and license-plate light) is LED; a speedometer, horn, brake-light switch and mirrors satisfy legal requirements while a sidestand adds convenience. The CRF450R employs a 6.3L titanium fuel tank; the CRF450L ups the volume 1.3L to 7.6L. The fuel cap also locks in place.

4. Technical Specifications

 

 

ENGINE

 

Type

Liquid-cooled 4-stroke single cylinder uni-cam

Displacement

449cc

Bore and Stroke

96.0mm x 62.1mm

Compression Ratio

12.0:1

FUEL SYSTEM

 

Carburation

PGM-FI Fuel injection

Fuel Tank Capacity

7.6 litres

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

 

Ignition

Digital CDI

Starter

Electric

DRIVETRAIN

 

Clutch Type

Wet multiplate

Transmission Type

Chain

Final Drive

Chain

FRAME

 

Type

Aluminium twin tube

CHASSIS

 

Dimensions (LīWīH)

2,280mm x 825mm x 1,260mm

Wheelbase

1500mm

Caster Angle

28.5į

Trail

122mm

Seat Height

940mm

Ground Clearance

315mm

Kerb Weight

130.8kg

SUSPENSION

 

Type Front

49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork

Type Rear

Showa monoshock using Honda Pro-Link system

WHEELS

 

Type Front

Aluminium spoke

Type Rear

Aluminium spoke

Tyres Front

80/100-21
Tyres Rear

120/80-18

BRAKES

 

Front

Single Disk

Rear

Single Disk

 

All specifications are provisional and subject to change without notice.

*The CRF450L will be launching in South Africa in the last quarter of 2018.

                                                                     
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 06:04:00 pm
Still question that 18.4 kW power output - the 2018 CRF450R claims to put out more than twice this (almost 60HP). Surely they could not have castrated it on this model so much? Must be at typo.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 25, 2018, 06:13:01 pm
Look, I guess dual sport means something else than I thought, but this is not something I would consider - 18kW? 7.6L fuel tank? oil and filter every 1000km? Sure they have made a lot of changes, but we can surely make a short list of things that would really have made this bike more SA friendly. I mean, you will exceed the filter interval on a single big trip easily. but what do I know
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on May 25, 2018, 06:25:22 pm
Still question that 18.4 kW power output - the 2018 CRF450R claims to put out more than twice this (almost 60HP). Surely they could not have castrated it this model much? Must be at typo.

Ja I think that is a BS figure. I suspect closer to 45-50hp is what we should expect from the factory. More when you uncork I guess.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 06:41:40 pm
For whatever it is worth, I have asked on advrider (you can go and get yourself knocked over if you wish here: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/who-saw-this-coming-crf450l.1316544/ (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/who-saw-this-coming-crf450l.1316544/)) and this is the answer I got:


My question: Thanks. Any indication of real power? And are they serious with 1000 km service intervals? Not that it matters - I service my 500 every 1500 - 3000 km and its working just fine, just curious.


Answer: A decent interview had a Honda guy expecting something in the 40's. Intervals are covering most extreme use situations. Especially extended highway miles, that some may use the bike for, according to another Honda source. Most tidbits of info point to this L being more of a performance DS. Not quite race-ready, but more in that neck of the woods. NOT a 250L or WR250R....
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 07:08:51 pm
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

This is what I found on advrider:

Ginger Beard said: ↑
Does anyone know whether or not they are running ti valves? Hopefully they went with steel.


If you're asking about the new 450L they are titanium. Taken from Honda's website:

Titanium Intake Valves
Lightweight titanium intake valves permit use of smaller valve springs, reducing overall engine height.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Hardy de Kock on May 25, 2018, 07:12:13 pm
ttention: Hardy (Specialsed Adventures)
24/05/2018


2019 HONDA CRF450L

New model updates: Using the CRF450R moto-crosser as a base, Honda's new road-legal dual-purpose motorcycle has a tough, lightweight chassis built to find all the available grip, powered by an engine that delivers strong, usable power right from the bottom. Durable, high quality parts and long service intervals aim for a worry-free riding and ownership experience.

Contents:

1 Introduction

2 Model overview

3 Key features

4 Technical specifications

1. Introduction

A true dual-purpose motorcycle should be many things; off-road it needs to be light weight, with quality suspension and handling ability that keeps life easy as the going gets harder. Its engine has to make good power and torque from the bottom up - the sort that is supremely usable, allowing the rider to find all the rear wheel grip possible, whatever the terrain.

All the attributes that make it great fun off-road also enable it to be really useful around town; narrow and nimble, a dual-purpose machine slips through gaps, soaks up the hits from rough roads and stays well ahead of traffic thanks to smart, low-gear acceleration. It also needs to be turn-key reliable, with sensible intervals between major service work.

Competition machines can make a solid base for dual-purpose adaptation. But there is much to consider. Race-level performance brings with it an intensive maintenance schedule, which is simply too much for many 'hobby' trail riders, who just want to push a button and go - and keep on going, Furthermore, a barely-disguised race bike can mean crucial road-going elements - lights, indicators, ignition switch - are not as user-friendly and durable as they should be.

Honda understands this, and with a desire to produce a dual-purpose bike that draws strongly on the fundamental performance of a race machine, yet with much more 'normal' service intervals and high-quality road ancillaries, has taken its CRF450R moto-crosser as the base to start from, and created the new CRF450L.

It is unmistakably a race-bred CRF - and looks it - but with the additions and modifications needed to make it both road legal and supremely useable in a trail environment. As such, the CRF450L is a complete package, as happy roosting trails as it is linking them up on-road. And with Honda engineering and build quality at its core, is sure to do so for years to come.

Mr M. Uchiyama, Large Project Leader (LPL) 19YM CRF450L:

"The CRF450L is about having maximum fun out on the dirt. It looks like a CRF450R because, really, it is - just a trail-friendly, road-legal version. That's what the 'L' stands for - 'legal'. It's been engineered to deliver excellent handling feel, with linear engine torque that helps the rider make the most of the available grip in all conditions. AND, it contains its HRC-derived CRF technology within a real-world service schedule."

2. Model Overview

The journey from full race to road legal trail was a detailed one for the CRF450L. Road legality required the engine to gain EURO4 compliance, while from a longevity and usability viewpoint, the power output and character, needed careful attention.

It's still a CRF450R; just one that's quieter, both mechanically from the chassis and engine, as well as its new exhaust. Both fuelling and ignition maps are now managed by 02 lambda sensor; compression ratio has been lowered and crank mass increased for improved drivability. The gearbox is a 6-speed - for longer legs on the road - and a cush drive has been added to the 18-inch rear wheel.

The plastics are lifted directly from the CRF450R and all lighting is LED, with the front headlight in particular throwing out a penetrating beam. Increased volume for the titanium fuel tank adds range and all the items that make the CRF450L ready to purchase as a licensed, road going machine - such as speedometer and horn - are present as standard.

3. Key Features

3.1 Engine

Based on the CRF450R, with first major service at 32,000km
EURO4 compliant, with electric start
Greater crank inertia improves drivability and feel for traction
6-speed gearbox
While the chassis was more straightforward to convert from its CRF450R moto-crosser specification to a dual-purpose performance level, the 449cc engine needed more consideration from Honda's engineers. Requirements were several: the need for it to pass EURO4 emissions and noise regulations, and to be usable for a wide variety of riders in many differing situations both on and off-road.

While the fundamental architecture of the four-valve Unicam powerplant remains the same, many details have been changed to support the broader role: the crank's mass has been increased, resulting in 13% more inertia which, for a trail rider, equals improved torque feel and response; valve timing has been revised to give the broader, smoother spread of power and torque; the gearbox is now 6-speed, rather than 5 for longer range use on tarmac; left and right engine covers wear outer covers to reduce noise;

Elsewhere, the ACG has been uprated, to provide the required electrical power for the LED lights and to maintain battery charge during lower-speed running. The battery itself is a high-volume unit.

Bore and stroke are unchanged from the CRF450R, at 96mm x 62.1mm, but the piston uses 3 rings instead of 2 for greater durability. Compression ratio is 12.0:1 (compared 13.5:1). The redesigned airbox feeds the PGM-FI, managed by a lambda sensor in the large-volume single exhaust (which replaces the 'stubby' dual-pipe design of the CRF450R). An Air Injection (AI) system and catalyser clean up the spent gases.

The four-valve Unicam cylinder head features a finger rocker arm on the inlet valves; valve lift is 7.7mm with 6.7mm exhaust valve lift. Inlet valve diameter is 38mm. The valve springs are oval in cross section and valve angle is 9į intake/10.5į exhaust.

The clutch spins 7 friction discs with a 2mm clutch plate efficiently dissipating heat; the springs generate a good, consistent connection. The front sprocket is a 13T, the rear 51T.

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-rider's perspective is the engine's reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450L's build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km.

3.2 Chassis

Drawn from the 18YM CRF450R, with minor adaptations for its dual purpose role
Full LED lighting, increased fuel tank volume and sidestand
Larger radiator volume, plus electric fan
Styling closely mirrors that of CRF450R
Having received a ground-up redesign in 2016, the CRF450R's chassis was a perfect place for the CRF450L to start out from, with changes to match the machine's vastly broader usage range, and road legal mission.

Firstly, the tapered dual-spar aluminium beam frame was made slightly wider at the swingarm pivot points, to allow for the greater engine width resulting from the 6-speed gearbox. The headstock was modified to mount a steering lock and the aluminium swingarm injected with urethane to reduce noise. The rear subframe is the same, with mounting point adjusted to take the taillight and the right-exit single exhaust muffler.

Rake and trail are set at 28.5į/122mm with wheelbase increased 18mm from the CRF450R to 1500mm, for greater stability. Both the R and the L feature 22mm fork offset.Wet weight is 130.8kg; seat height is 940mm.

A 49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork - adjustable for preload plus compression damping - is matched by a fully adjustable Showa rear shock, operated through Pro-Link. A 260mm wave-pattern disc delivers effective heat dissipation, power and feel from the two-piston brake caliper working it; a matching 240mm wave-pattern disc and single-piston caliper is at the rear.

Whereas the CRF450R machine uses a 19-inch rear wheel, the CRF450L's is an 18-inch (to fit enduro-spec tyres), with the addition of a cush drive to absorb chain shock; a sealed 520 chain is protected by a plastic chain guard. The front wheel is a 21-inch and both rims are finished in black. Tyres are sized 80/100-21 front and 120/80-18 rear.

The CRF450L's style draws fully on that of the CRF450R. Carried over are the rear mudguard, side panels and bash plate. Svelte side shrouds hide a larger radiator volume plus electric fan. All lighting (including the indicators and license-plate light) is LED; a speedometer, horn, brake-light switch and mirrors satisfy legal requirements while a sidestand adds convenience. The CRF450R employs a 6.3L titanium fuel tank; the CRF450L ups the volume 1.3L to 7.6L. The fuel cap also locks in place.

4. Technical Specifications

 

 

ENGINE

 

Type

Liquid-cooled 4-stroke single cylinder uni-cam

Displacement

449cc

Bore and Stroke

96.0mm x 62.1mm

Compression Ratio

12.0:1

FUEL SYSTEM

 

Carburation

PGM-FI Fuel injection

Fuel Tank Capacity

7.6 litres

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

 

Ignition

Digital CDI

Starter

Electric

DRIVETRAIN

 

Clutch Type

Wet multiplate

Transmission Type

Chain

Final Drive

Chain

FRAME

 

Type

Aluminium twin tube

CHASSIS

 

Dimensions (LīWīH)

2,280mm x 825mm x 1,260mm

Wheelbase

1500mm

Caster Angle

28.5į

Trail

122mm

Seat Height

940mm

Ground Clearance

315mm

Kerb Weight

130.8kg

SUSPENSION

 

Type Front

49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork

Type Rear

Showa monoshock using Honda Pro-Link system

WHEELS

 

Type Front

Aluminium spoke

Type Rear

Aluminium spoke

Tyres Front

80/100-21
Tyres Rear

120/80-18

BRAKES

 

Front

Single Disk

Rear

Single Disk

 

All specifications are provisional and subject to change without notice.

*The CRF450L will be launching in South Africa in the last quarter of 2018.

                                                                     

This is how I received the press release from Honda SA - but I suspect there is a few typo's in it. - Will get Barend to address the issues
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 07:19:22 pm
Great to be getting more info. Thanks Hardy.

Xpat - Yes ADVRider is rather exhausting . I have been a member since its early days but seldom frequent it regularly anymore, mostly dip in and out and very specifically. I have lived in USA and unfortunately I recognise too well the arrogance and bigotry from some (not all mind). 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on May 25, 2018, 07:27:40 pm
Ok so this like a down tuned KTM 500 with better suspension,
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 25, 2018, 07:31:52 pm
Ok so this like a down tuned KTM 500 with better suspension,

and vastly better reliability.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 25, 2018, 07:37:42 pm

Ok so this like a down tuned KTM 500 with better suspension,

Nope, so far it is 250L with better suspension and pricetag of KTM 500.

I still think the info is just wrong, but that press release has been hanging all over the web for 2 days already, so I'm getting confused. Unless it is one of those cases where it really gets released with 25 HP for Euro and California nazis, but comes out with a screw or two which if not Loctited may wriggle out and somehow release another 25hp...

My Husky 630 came out kind of  like that...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on May 25, 2018, 07:50:41 pm
Cant be 25HP, my TTR is listed as that.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 25, 2018, 07:52:54 pm

Ok so this like a down tuned KTM 500 with better suspension,

Nope, so far it is 250L with better suspension and pricetag of KTM 500.

I

 :imaposer:  ... and an extra piston ring.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Operator on May 25, 2018, 08:27:36 pm
Still question that 18.4 kW power output - the 2018 CRF450R claims to put out more than twice this (almost 60HP). Surely they could not have castrated it on this model so much? Must be at typo.

Copy and paste error surely
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 25, 2018, 08:31:48 pm
Cant be 25HP, my TTR is listed as that.

My 1981 XT500 claims 27 horsepower........must be wrong.

Perhaps Honda's used all the power on Marquez's bike?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 25, 2018, 08:39:40 pm
As long as this L comes with stainless steel valves all round it will be solid. Make peace with the service intervals and it will be a toss up between buying a CRF450L or KTM 500 for those looking for the route less traveled.

This is what I found on advrider:

Ginger Beard said: ↑
Does anyone know whether or not they are running ti valves? Hopefully they went with steel.


If you're asking about the new 450L they are titanium. Taken from Honda's website:

Titanium Intake Valves
Lightweight titanium intake valves permit use of smaller valve springs, reducing overall engine height.
Bad move, L owners should buy good feeler gauges with the bike. So you lower comp, add piston ring and heavier flywheel but keep racing valves ? I had SS valves and the bike had plenty of power and still revved quick with the bonus of not having to adjust them at each stop
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on May 25, 2018, 09:49:38 pm
KTMs also use titanium valves.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on May 26, 2018, 12:22:14 am
I promise to resurrect my XR650L with a high compression Wiseco 657cc piston soon. No longer shall I be left behind by dropped valves or other misery in the head department after 38 000 reliable km on my favorite Valley and SA trails.
Oh Fuckit - it's now  2018! and I need to get with it rather sooner than later while I still breathe. My take on things CRF450L related:

* It's a cool bike that may turn out to be a proper gem or maybe not.
* No knowledge or evidence of outright performance parameters so we have to wait until XYZ goes for a test race and reports back here on this forum.
* I'm still in XR heaven so it will take a lot to get me CRF motivated.
* Right now we know fuckall about how this particular CRF hangs together and how it could work in the real world.
* Until then - breathe - relax - breathe - Repeat. Honda has thrown us a curveball  :thumleft: and we gotta see how it works out.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 26, 2018, 08:31:46 am

Honda has thrown us a curveball  :thumleft: and we gotta see how it works out.


I think it is a full toss they have thrown rather than a curve ball  8)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 26, 2018, 08:50:29 am
So just asking, how many mfg's at the moment have dual sport options like this? street legal lightweight enduros? I for one hope the sales go up, and that the market changes a bit from those that do 95% tar and 5% dirt to something more balanced. I mean, you often hear guys saying that the days of overweight tankers adventure bikes are over. Maybe its a global trend, in which case the mfg WILL listen. Perhaps make less overly powerful adventure bikes, and something more balanced - less power, more light weight. I would like something that is not as enduro as this, it's a racing mx bike in disguise. I would like to see something between that and the 1000cc + Adv bikes, arond 600-700cc perhaps, twin, 200kg curb weigh, etc. just thinking aloud
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 26, 2018, 08:53:31 am
The L is going to be an X with lights and perhaps softer spring rates.

Both will have the same emission controls and my guess is that they might require an ecu remap, once you uncork them.

Seeing as they both have the new R frame, they will share the new intake system which means they can make huge power.

Both will have the 3-ring piston. I guess if you want Yamaha reliability, you might aswell start with that. Sadly they still have a bit more to do when it comes to the valve train.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 26, 2018, 08:55:33 am
So just asking, how many mfg's at the moment have dual sport options like this? street legal lightweight enduros? I for one hope the sales go up, and that the market changes a bit from those that do 95% tar and 5% dirt to something more balanced. I mean, you often hear guys saying that the days of overweight tankers adventure bikes are over. Maybe its a global trend, in which case the mfg WILL listen. Perhaps make less overly powerful adventure bikes, and something more balanced - less power, more light weight. I would like something that is not as enduro as this, it's a racing mx bike in disguise. I would like to see something between that and the 1000cc + Adv bikes, arond 600-700cc perhaps, twin, 200kg curb weigh, etc. just thinking aloud
T7

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 26, 2018, 09:03:36 am
So just asking, how many mfg's at the moment have dual sport options like this? street legal lightweight enduros? I for one hope the sales go up, and that the market changes a bit from those that do 95% tar and 5% dirt to something more balanced. I mean, you often hear guys saying that the days of overweight tankers adventure bikes are over. Maybe its a global trend, in which case the mfg WILL listen. Perhaps make less overly powerful adventure bikes, and something more balanced - less power, more light weight. I would like something that is not as enduro as this, it's a racing mx bike in disguise. I would like to see something between that and the 1000cc + Adv bikes, arond 600-700cc perhaps, twin, 200kg curb weigh, etc. just thinking aloud

Its coming and its orange and called the KTM 790 Adventure.  :lol8:

PS. And maybe the Yamaha T7 but I fear it may not make the weigh-in cut  ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 26, 2018, 09:24:31 am
Yes it's going to be close for the T7

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on May 26, 2018, 10:26:32 am
It is a step in the right direction with the decline of the 650 class in favour of 200kg plus bikes, I am looking forward to seeing the new 6 speed mode here in SAl


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Pistonpete on May 26, 2018, 10:57:26 am
This is all subject to where you live and access time to dirt.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 26, 2018, 12:13:57 pm
Honda is just teasing us with this deliberately confusing info! :lol8:

They want us to discuss this at length! Free marketing for them!

Japs are more than just tasteless sushi!..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 26, 2018, 01:15:54 pm
This is all subject to where you live and access time to dirt.

And whether you blood bleeds red, blue or orange  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 26, 2018, 07:56:26 pm
If every adventure rider is waiting for a 450-ish, lightweight D/S bike, why is sales so low on KTM and Husky 500/501, WR's, etc??

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on May 26, 2018, 08:01:30 pm
Near 1 Liter oil capacity.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 26, 2018, 08:03:41 pm
If every adventure rider is waiting for a 450-ish, lightweight D/S bike, why is sales so low on KTM and Husky 500/501, WR's, etc??

Who said every adv rider is waiting for lightweight DS bike?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 26, 2018, 08:08:32 pm
If every adventure rider is waiting for a 450-ish, lightweight D/S bike, why is sales so low on KTM and Husky 500/501, WR's, etc??

Who said every adv rider is waiting for lightweight DS bike?

Well, obviously not every single one, many in fact will continue wrestling a pig, I was referring to the massive interest every mention of a "new" lightweight D/S bike has, and that few people will actually buy one.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Cracker on May 26, 2018, 08:19:13 pm
We just want them to be available ........... to exist ................... absolutely no need to buy one  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 26, 2018, 08:21:49 pm
If every adventure rider is waiting for a 450-ish, lightweight D/S bike, why is sales so low on KTM and Husky 500/501, WR's, etc??

Who said every adv rider is waiting for lightweight DS bike?

Well, obviously not every single one, many in fact will continue wrestling a pig, I was referring to the massive interest every mention of a "new" lightweight D/S bike has, and that few people will actually buy one.

Because words lost meaning and lightweight DS bike means different things to different people as we have seen even on this thread clearly. To me DS bike is plated enduro, as that is what it originally is as invented in US. The Aussie in the video above says this is not a DS bike but plated enduro bike - i.e. exactly what I understand DS bike is - so go figure. And most  people here probably think that Supertenere or 1190 is DS bike - which to me they are not at all - they are adventure bike, i.e. touring bike category invented I think in Europe.

Terminology aside, I think most people in this thread expected initially this bike to be the modern replacement of the classic 650 allrounders like XR/DR/XT . I.e. bikes that are cheap, require minimum maintenance and can be used for wide variety of purposes from daily commuting to weekend bundu bashing.

Which this bike clearly is not (for that you may need to look at the new benchmark adv bike 310GS  :pot:). It is aimed at fringe market of plated enduros currently occupied only by KTM-sqkvarna, as that is the only dirt bike that can be made 50 states legal in US, which is the main market for this type of bike historically. As far as I know WR and other enduro bikes like current CRF enduro bikes cannot be plated in US. Hence this model from Honda, which haw very strong following in US. They saw how many devout US Honda fans moved grudgingly to KTMsqvarna over past decade, because they didn't have any choice (i.e. no other plated enduro bike on the market) and they want to pull some of them back, which judging by some comments on advrider, the probably will. Unless of course this bike has really 18kW and nothing can be done about it.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 26, 2018, 08:23:31 pm
We just want them to be available ........... to exist ................... absolutely no need to buy one  :biggrin:


 :imaposer: there's the problem, no manufacturer is going to want a bike to just exist, they want to sell them.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 26, 2018, 08:32:32 pm
I would say that I started my serious D/S career on a 1975 Yamaha DT400B, which weighed [dry] 125kgs.

I did most of my D/S riding on a 138kgs Yamaha XT500.

I have also done Tankwa, etc on Suzuki GT750 and Kawa Z1000, which I found a tad heavy to extract from a sandy patch. These last two weigh what modern big adventure bike weigh. :xxbah:

Like you say Xpat, words loses meaning and different bikes means different things to different people.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 26, 2018, 08:52:45 pm
I would say that I started my serious D/S career on a 1975 Yamaha DT400B, which weighed [dry] 125kgs.

I did most of my D/S riding on a 138kgs Yamaha XT500.

I have also done Tankwa, etc on Suzuki GT750 and Kawa Z1000, which I found a tad heavy to extract from a sandy patch. These last two weigh what modern big adventure bike weigh. :xxbah:

Like you say Xpat, words loses meaning and different bikes means different things to different people.

I still miss my DT400  :'(
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tommy Transalp on May 26, 2018, 10:46:12 pm
Price/cost is the deciding factor for me... R 135k for a middle weight bike is a bit lumpy for my budget :patch:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 26, 2018, 11:28:14 pm
Price/cost is the deciding factor for me... R 135k for a middle weight bike is a bit lumpy for my budget :patch:

Middleweight? Is there anything lighter than this, apart from 500/501 which is few kg lighter, but basically the same category? Few kg up or down from KTM, this is basically the lightest one can go in plated bike full stop, unless one manages to plate a trial's bike. I would call middle weight bikes ranging from 690 to probably your Transalp (though that one may be just soo heavy for it).

But I agree on price, at the KTM 500 price with those short service intervals (probably even with long ones, but that would help to differentiate it from 500) Honda will have hard time selling these in SA. I'm surprised they are bringing them in at all - Yamaha never bothered to bring in WR250R, as - similarly to this 450 and very much unlike CRF250L, it has high quality components/suspension and as such high price tag (but unlike this bike it had long service intervals).

And for those few people interested in this category this 450 will compete head on against lighter and more powerfull 500/501, which are very well established and tested worldwide for the proper DS riding, with Adam Rieman's videos marking them as the lighweight bike for long distance trips. And I dare to say KTMsquarna is as reliable, if not more, as this Honda is going to be. I have no clue what unicam is (OK I know that it is single camshaft, but that is about it), but have read quite a few unkind comments about it - from Honda fans. Plus they didn't exactly excel reliability wise in Dakar (at least up to this year, if I remember correctly this year none of the Honda's bombed out) which is kind of approximation for the type of riding this bike may do - in much more relaxed guise and shorter distances of course.

So it is going to be uphill battle for Honda, but I for one wish them success. I will stick with 500 as I have, know and trust the bike and have no reason to switch, but it would be good to have more choice on the market. Who knows - maybe over years with some upgrades this will morph into worthy XR650R (R not L) successor which I also think had pretty short service intervals recommended - and that would be very welcome IMO.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 12:03:49 am
Is this WR sold here like this? Can it be plated here? http://www.cyclespot.co.nz/bike/Yamaha/WR450/999516453 (http://www.cyclespot.co.nz/bike/Yamaha/WR450/999516453)

(https://carupdater.com/cars/carlibrary/cyclespotnew/large/999516453_1.jpg)

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Meteor on May 27, 2018, 01:24:13 am
Why didn't they make this engine a bit bigger like a 550?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 27, 2018, 08:32:31 am
I agree, D/S and adventure bikes mean the same thing to many, and why shouldn't it. adventure bikes can do tar and gravel, the dual in DS seem to imply the same. but its good to know what the terms really mean. I get that you can ride trails amd the US and then back home on tar, but almost feel like you might as well trailer an enduro to your spot and back. who wants to sit on tar on one of these things for more than 20km?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 08:45:00 am
I agree, D/S and adventure bikes mean the same thing to many, and why shouldn't it. adventure bikes can do tar and gravel, the dual in DS seem to imply the same. but its good to know what the terms really mean. I get that you can ride trails amd the US and then back home on tar, but almost feel like you might as well trailer an enduro to your spot and back. who wants to sit on tar on one of these things for more than 20km?

I do - merrily. Let's use real example - DeWildt in Gauteng (I assume in CT it would be something like Atlantis). It is about 60 - 70 km from Midrand where I live to police station where the fun begins. About half of that commute I can knock off on dirt roads/tracks. And then I can have more or less exactly the same fun as people on full plastics in DeWildt, including riverbeds, whoops up to watertower, etc. The total roundabout trip of over 200km and most of it - timewise, delicious dirt (not dirt road - proper enduro loop) and plated dirt bike is just perfect for that.

Before I had 500, I had 300 for that, that I had to trailer to DeWildt. I had to wake up at 6  weekend, pack all the crap into bakkie, drive 70 km, unpack, gear-up go for ride, come back and repeat the process in reverse. Way too much hassle that I eventually stopped bother and ride in DeWildt, which is for me the best place to ride in Gauteng (ok near Gauteng). On 500 I wake up whenever I want, gear up at home, have 5 - 6 hour blast on the bike in proper dirt and end up home again. As a result I ride every weekend and get proper red blooded fun without any trailering and early morning hassle, that just isn't warrantied for daily trip.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 27, 2018, 09:13:54 am
I agree, D/S and adventure bikes mean the same thing to many, and why shouldn't it. adventure bikes can do tar and gravel, the dual in DS seem to imply the same. but its good to know what the terms really mean. I get that you can ride trails amd the US and then back home on tar, but almost feel like you might as well trailer an enduro to your spot and back. who wants to sit on tar on one of these things for more than 20km?

I do - merrily. Let's use real example - DeWildt in Gauteng (I assume in CT it would be something like Atlantis). It is about 60 - 70 km from Midrand where I live to police station where the fun begins. About half of that commute I can knock off on dirt roads/tracks. And then I can have more or less exactly the same fun as people on full plastics in DeWildt, including riverbeds, whoops up to watertower, etc. The total roundabout trip of over 200km and most of it - timewise, delicious dirt (not dirt road - proper enduro loop) and plated dirt bike is just perfect for that.

Before I had 500, I had 300 for that, that I had to trailer to DeWildt. I had to wake up at 6  weekend, pack all the crap into bakkie, drive 70 km, unpack, gear-up go for ride, come back and repeat the process in reverse. Way too much hassle that I eventually stopped bother and ride in DeWildt, which is for me the best place to ride in Gauteng (ok near Gauteng). On 500 I wake up whenever I want, gear up at home, have 5 - 6 hour blast on the bike in proper dirt and end up home again. As a result I ride every weekend and get proper red blooded fun without any trailering and early morning hassle, that just isn't warrantied for daily trip.

I guess you have a point. I am more inclined towards adventure bikes, and want to have fun in tar as well. but a plated enduro makes sense if the goal is as you say.

how big is the adventure bike spectrum? are there any key things adv bikes need to have, be able to do?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 11:21:57 am
...

how big is the adventure bike spectrum? are there any key things adv bikes need to have, be able to do?

There isn't any hard and fast rule about where does DS bike end and adv bike begin. They occupy the opposite ends of continuum of road legal (or rather plated, as quite a few DS including mine wouldn't probably pass the roadworthy test  :peepwall:) bikes that have some kind of dirt riding ability engineered into them (yes I know Peterhansel can ride R1 in dunes, but you know what I mean). On the spectrum of offroad (double/single/no-track) - offtar (dirt roads) - tar, the DS will lean towards offroad end with some offroad/tar capability (i.e. one can grudgingly ride hour or two on dirt roads, worst case scenario tar, if on the other end they can spend many many hours doing offroad). And vice versa, adv bike will be much better on tar and good dirt roads, but you are not going to enjoy yourself in 100km of deep sand (apart from few masochists).

Generally, adv bikes are geared towards long distance comfort on tar and dirt roads (i.e. they are heavier - which is good for comfort, have windshield, big load carrying capacity, passenger allowed), while DS for maximum dirt enjoyment (lightweight - good offroad, not so good on tar and good dirt roads, no windshield to break your neck or nose, can carry some minimum luggage, but really minimum, no passenger allowed whatsoever).

Of course where is the line between the two is subjective. I guess it is somewhere in the spectrum 690 - Tenere (XT660Z or T7 or 790). For most people 690 (without rally kit) is probably considered too dirt focused and hence DS, for me now that I'm conditioned on 500, it feels like intercontinental cruiser. My personal rule of thumb would be - windshield = adv bike, no windshield = DS (and yes there are many exceptions to that).

I talk about it here only because if the released info is correct this new 450 is at the very extreme DS end of the spectrum  - as I think you will agree. I think it is important for people to realize that, otherwise they may end up buying wrong bike for their job - if the job is adv touring.  If they are looking not so much for touring, but dirt enjoyment in their plated bike, this looks like very interesting alternative (once the 25 hp choke is removed by aftermarket) to currently the only option on the market 500/501.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: volroom on May 27, 2018, 02:31:08 pm
...

how big is the adventure bike spectrum? are there any key things adv bikes need to have, be able to do?

There isn't any hard and fast rule about where does DS bike end and adv bike begin. They occupy the opposite ends of continuum of road legal (or rather plated, as quite a few DS including mine wouldn't probably pass the roadworthy test  :peepwall:) bikes that have some kind of dirt riding ability engineered into them (yes I know Peterhansel can ride R1 in dunes, but you know what I mean). On the spectrum of offroad (double/single/no-track) - offtar (dirt roads) - tar, the DS will lean towards offroad end with some offroad/tar capability (i.e. one can grudgingly ride hour or two on dirt roads, worst case scenario tar, if on the other end they can spend many many hours doing offroad). And vice versa, adv bike will be much better on tar and good dirt roads, but you are not going to enjoy yourself in 100km of deep sand (apart from few masochists).

Generally, adv bikes are geared towards long distance comfort on tar and dirt roads (i.e. they are heavier - which is good for comfort, have windshield, big load carrying capacity, passenger allowed), while DS for maximum dirt enjoyment (lightweight - good offroad, not so good on tar and good dirt roads, no windshield to break your neck or nose, can carry some minimum luggage, but really minimum, no passenger allowed whatsoever).

Of course where is the line between the two is subjective. I guess it is somewhere in the spectrum 690 - Tenere (XT660Z or T7 or 790). For most people 690 (without rally kit) is probably considered too dirt focused and hence DS, for me now that I'm conditioned on 500, it feels like intercontinental cruiser. My personal rule of thumb would be - windshield = adv bike, no windshield = DS (and yes there are many exceptions to that).

I talk about it here only because if the released info is correct this new 450 is at the very extreme DS end of the spectrum  - as I think you will agree. I think it is important for people to realize that, otherwise they may end up buying wrong bike for their job - if the job is adv touring.  If they are looking not so much for touring, but dirt enjoyment in their plated bike, this looks like very interesting alternative (once the 25 hp choke is removed by aftermarket) to currently the only option on the market 500/501.

thanks for your informed posts. Learning a lot here.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 27, 2018, 06:30:15 pm
I see the plan is to release it September in eu already! It looks like Honda is in a hurry to release the bike!

General question: Are traction control and map settings necessary on these type of bikes? Apparently the 501 has both, what about the Ktm500?..cheers!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 10:54:35 pm
I see the plan is to release it September in eu already! It looks like Honda is in a hurry to release the bike!

General question: Are traction control and map settings necessary on these type of bikes? Apparently the 501 has both, what about the Ktm500?..cheers!

No, they are not necessary, neither desirable IMO - these kind of things are required only by soccer moms in my unkind opinion. 500 doesn't have either stock - the map switch can be added aftermarket, cannot figure out why would I need one though.

The simplicity is the king with these bikes - as they are supposed to be used hard in dirt. The less electrics, the better. That is one of the reason why I dare to say that KTM is fully competitive if not better in reliability in this segment to Honda or Yamaha - despite the fact that in overelectronicised road bikes it definitely lags behind them. THe lack of electronics leaves much less to go wrong.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 27, 2018, 11:09:36 pm

No, they are not necessary, neither desirable IMO - these kind of things are required only by soccer moms in my unkind opinion. 500 doesn't have either stock - the map switch can be added aftermarket, cannot figure out why would I need one though.

The simplicity is the king with these bikes - as they are supposed to be used hard in dirt. The less electrics, the better. That is one of the reason why I dare to say that KTM is fully competitive if not better in reliability in this segment to Honda or Yamaha - despite the fact that in overelectronicised road bikes it definitely lags behind them. THe lack of electronics leaves much less to go wrong.
Nope
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 11:12:31 pm

No, they are not necessary, neither desirable IMO - these kind of things are required only by soccer moms in my unkind opinion. 500 doesn't have either stock - the map switch can be added aftermarket, cannot figure out why would I need one though.

The simplicity is the king with these bikes - as they are supposed to be used hard in dirt. The less electrics, the better. That is one of the reason why I dare to say that KTM is fully competitive if not better in reliability in this segment to Honda or Yamaha - despite the fact that in overelectronicised road bikes it definitely lags behind them. THe lack of electronics leaves much less to go wrong.
Nope

For example?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 27, 2018, 11:16:52 pm

No, they are not necessary, neither desirable IMO - these kind of things are required only by soccer moms in my unkind opinion. 500 doesn't have either stock - the map switch can be added aftermarket, cannot figure out why would I need one though.

The simplicity is the king with these bikes - as they are supposed to be used hard in dirt. The less electrics, the better. That is one of the reason why I dare to say that KTM is fully competitive if not better in reliability in this segment to Honda or Yamaha - despite the fact that in overelectronicised road bikes it definitely lags behind them. THe lack of electronics leaves much less to go wrong.
Nope

For example?
Suffice to quote MX Action and Dirtbike magazine: "Nothing is as reliable as a Yamaha YZ450F."
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 11:19:34 pm

No, they are not necessary, neither desirable IMO - these kind of things are required only by soccer moms in my unkind opinion. 500 doesn't have either stock - the map switch can be added aftermarket, cannot figure out why would I need one though.

The simplicity is the king with these bikes - as they are supposed to be used hard in dirt. The less electrics, the better. That is one of the reason why I dare to say that KTM is fully competitive if not better in reliability in this segment to Honda or Yamaha - despite the fact that in overelectronicised road bikes it definitely lags behind them. THe lack of electronics leaves much less to go wrong.
Nope

For example?
Suffice to quote MX Action and Dirtbike magazine: "Nothing is as reliable as a Yamaha YZ450F."

No, it doesn't. Leaving aside that YZ is not dual sport but motocrosser that could have been plated in SA, but will not be possible to plate anywhere else, any specific example if KTM issues that Yamaha doesn't have?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 27, 2018, 11:27:41 pm
Leaving aside that YZ is not dual sport but motocrosser that could have been plated in SA, but will not be possible to plate anywhere else, any specific example if KTM issues that Yamaha doesn't have?
It's perhaps better to think about the WR/YZ from a ZA perspective where they can in fact be plated, don't you think? -(I think most WD's are from ZA)
For starters, the KTM has one less piston ring.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 27, 2018, 11:28:50 pm
Suffice to quote MX Action and Dirtbike magazine: "Nothing is as reliable as a Yamaha YZ450F."

No, it doesn't.

Are you saying that MXA did not make that claim?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 11:35:50 pm
Leaving aside that YZ is not dual sport but motocrosser that could have been plated in SA, but will not be possible to plate anywhere else, any specific example if KTM issues that Yamaha doesn't have?
It's perhaps better to think about the WR/YZ from a ZA perspective where they can in fact be plated, don't you think? -(I think most WD's are from ZA)
For starters, the KTM has one less piston ring.

I don't know anybody except you who plated YZ even in ZA. It doesn't even have a lights so people would have to bolt on new light like you did (I still don't understand how you got away with it, but good for you). One more pisotn ring will increase lifespan between topend rebuilds, but will not affect significantly reliability. I.e. I will not end up stranded somewhere because of one less ring - may need to top up oil more often in the worst case scenario, but will not be walking out.

I think you are looking for advantage where there isn't really one or at best very marginal (or give specific examples of people stranded on Katoom). The reason for that IMO is that these bikes are so simple, that even KTM cannot screw it up. So looping back to original question, I wouldn't want that jeopardized by unnecessary nonsense like traction control, ABS, etc.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 27, 2018, 11:37:09 pm
Suffice to quote MX Action and Dirtbike magazine: "Nothing is as reliable as a Yamaha YZ450F."

No, it doesn't.

Are you saying that MXA did not make that claim?

No, I'm saying it doesn' suffice to quote them. There are journos here who believe that 310GS is best adv bike on the planet. I want to hear specific examples of where it is better, otherwise it is just opinion like any other.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 27, 2018, 11:49:26 pm
I don't know anybody except you who plated YZ even in ZA. It doesn't even have a lights so people would have to bolt on new light like you did (I still don't understand how you got away with it, but good for you). One more pisotn ring will increase lifespan between topend rebuilds, but will not affect significantly reliability. I.e. I will not end up stranded somewhere because of one less ring - may need to top up oil more often in the worst case scenario, but will not be walking out.

I think you are looking for advantage where there isn't really one or at best very marginal (or give specific examples of people stranded on Katoom). The reason for that IMO is that these bikes are so simple, that even KTM cannot screw it up. So looping back to original question, I wouldn't want that jeopardized by unnecessary nonsense like traction control, ABS, etc.
Lights are a non-issue as the YZ has 140W stator so you can put whatever cowling + headlight on it, or better yet, buy the WR.
There is a reason why I did not focus on my own personal experiences with KTM's, but rather trusting dudes that's had the privilege of testing dirtbikes since the 70's.

But if I must, we've had to abandon a trip in Lesotho due to a 2 ring KTM blowing smoke. We were lucky enough to bum a liter of oil from Alfie Cox and KTM Bloem fixed the bike by replacing the cylinder and piston. Needless to say, that didn't fix the problem.
Another KTM used all my YZ's spare oil during a ~1000km DS trip of the Escarpment. An other used all its extra oil and resorted to whatever he could find at petrol stations during a Magoebas kloof ride.
I liked to compare the state of the air filters and air boxes between my KTM's and my YZ after DS trips. The YZ's filter position had a massive impact on the quality of air supplied to the motor. That alone was a game changer to me.
Lets not speak about the suspension inferiority compared to Yamaha.

Even my CRF didn't use oil like a KTM. Granted, I had to ride it home from Vaalwater to PTA with tight intakes, which resulted in an SS valve conversion which is why I'd rate the KTM more reliable than a CRF. a CRF with SS valve conversion is a different story.

I agree, in most cases, the difference in reliability will not result in you walking home, but that's beside the false claim of superior KTM reliability
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on May 28, 2018, 08:29:27 am
Maintaining that a KTM is reliable makes me think that you know nothing about motorcycles at all.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 28, 2018, 08:40:25 am
Maintaining that a KTM is reliable makes me think that you know nothing about motorcycles at all.

Well I guess I am one of the lucky ones then. Of my 4 KTM's, I only had a rocker issue on my 690 which was relatively cheap to repair compared to issues I've had on other brands.

I would've still had my CRF450 if it had 6 gears and roadworthy
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 28, 2018, 09:07:38 am
Maintaining that a KTM is reliable makes me think that you know nothing about motorcycles at all.

Oh really? Why don't you give us real world  examples of issues with 500 maintenance?

This comment makes me think that you have a reading comprehension of a squirel and probably hear voices in your head that you imagine are real.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on May 28, 2018, 09:17:15 am
 ;D

You guys are fun. Leave the Jap bikes for me and the other squirrels and we'll leave the euro's for you.



Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 28, 2018, 09:25:21 am
;D

You guys are fun. Leave the Jap bikes for me and the other squirrels and we'll leave the euro's for you.

Deal  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 09:54:47 am
;D

You guys are fun. Leave the Jap bikes for me and the other squirrels and we'll leave the euro's for you.
I'd like to think that I'm not partial to any specific brand. Iv'e owned most of them in this segment and liked them all.

One thing to note about KTM is their rate of progression- as recently as 2010, they were still sand casting their engines (the Japs stopped doing that in the 80's already) and since 2012, they've had huge reliability gains
 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on May 28, 2018, 10:01:34 am
I just don't trust them yet. Think the LC motors in the 640's, 690's...  :o

And how old are the oldest 500's? And how many km's or hours?

If the new ones are better, then it's good news for all.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on May 28, 2018, 10:05:47 am
I work on the KTMs/Huskies and then Hondas and Yamahas.  There's no Suzukis or Kawasakis in the Upington area.

Only reliability issue I've seen was cranks on 2 KTM 350s.  The single cam KTM engines are exceptionally reliable.  I've seen a lot of valve issues on the 5 valve Yamahas and I've had intake valve failure on my own Honda.  All of them will loose the intake valves if any dirt is sucked.  To me, the new Yamaha reverse engine is subject to dirt falling into the intake tract due to the intake tract design.  The newest Hondas are also designed with a straight shot, even though it has a conventional design.  If care is taken during air filter changes, this is a non-issue.  Sloppy servicing might cause issues-like with any bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 10:14:10 am
Exactly why I value the perception of guys from MXA. Their opinion on reliability is as close to everything being equal as we can get -seeing as they've been riding and servicing bikes for decades.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 28, 2018, 10:20:43 am
I see the plan is to release it September in eu already! It looks like Honda is in a hurry to release the bike!

General question: Are traction control and map settings necessary on these type of bikes? Apparently the 501 has both, what about the Ktm500?..cheers!

No, they are not necessary, neither desirable IMO - these kind of things are required only by soccer moms in my unkind opinion. 500 doesn't have either stock - the map switch can be added aftermarket, cannot figure out why would I need one though.

The simplicity is the king with these bikes - as they are supposed to be used hard in dirt. The less electrics, the better. That is one of the reason why I dare to say that KTM is fully competitive if not better in reliability in this segment to Honda or Yamaha - despite the fact that in overelectronicised road bikes it definitely lags behind them. THe lack of electronics leaves much less to go wrong.

Agree with simplicity!! Not only for bikes but for life in general!

Are you sure about the tc, not even on the later 2017+ models, like the Huskies?  I have read some2here that it is standard on the 6 days, maybe it was the mod..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 28, 2018, 10:23:24 am
Exactly why I value the perception of guys from MXA. Their opinion on reliability is as close to everything being equal as we can get -seeing as they've been riding and servicing bikes for decades.

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Is Bill the bong a MXA Ninja?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: THROTTLE JOCKEY on May 28, 2018, 10:36:12 am
You guys are worried about reliability! As below you can see my bikes owned and there are many more used and sold in my life time. I do not bundle them in cotton wool and ride most harder than they where designed to handle, I like putting myself and the bikes outside their comfort zone. Now saying that all of them have given me little to no issues, personally I think this comes down to spending time in the garage on maintenance (part of the love of what I do). NO! bike comes without issues and understanding that I think solves a lot of distrust and animosity towards any specific brand. Ride them! Love them and take care of them! Much like a women!

Also I learnt a long time ago that all dual sport bikes are Swiss army knives the can do most most thing reasonably OK but very little really well. So my solution is to build my own knife by building a garage and adding bikes. Its not perfect as every time I add bike it makes a gap to be filled between it and the next closest one. I know its not perfect but keeps me busy.  :biggrin:

The only thing I would suggest on this Honda is replacing those titanium valves with stainless ones and upgraded springs solving valve clearance issues I had with mine. This is a bike that suites a certain life style and it will do it well. Its a square and fits a square hole let the triangle play in its hole!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on May 28, 2018, 10:57:25 am
Exactly why I value the perception of guys from MXA. Their opinion on reliability is as close to everything being equal as we can get -seeing as they've been riding and servicing bikes for decades.

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Is Bill the bong a MXA Ninja?

You asking on behalf of your Momma?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 11:15:56 am
Exactly why I value the perception of guys from MXA. Their opinion on reliability is as close to everything being equal as we can get -seeing as they've been riding and servicing bikes for decades.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Is Bill the bong a MXA Ninja?
Not sure what you meant to say but what I was hinting at is that with poor maintenance, you can destroy anything (dropping sand down the Yamaha's intake beeing an example)

If all are maintained relatively the same, we have a more level playing field, in terms of impressions of reliability.

My reason for placing value in MX action's opinion is that had they been biased in their opinions, they would certainly not have survived in the scene for nearly 40years.
They ride all manufacturers bikes on almost a daily basis and generally keep the models for an entire season, which means they race them for 12months at mx events, enduros and even the Glen Helen 24hour endurance race.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 28, 2018, 11:32:56 am
Exactly why I value the perception of guys from MXA. Their opinion on reliability is as close to everything being equal as we can get -seeing as they've been riding and servicing bikes for decades.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Is Bill the bong a MXA Ninja?

You asking on behalf of your Momma?

 :lol8:No pappa bear wants to know!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 28, 2018, 03:30:08 pm
Is this WR sold here like this? Can it be plated here? http://www.cyclespot.co.nz/bike/Yamaha/WR450/999516453 (http://www.cyclespot.co.nz/bike/Yamaha/WR450/999516453)

(https://carupdater.com/cars/carlibrary/cyclespotnew/large/999516453_1.jpg)

If you buy new or if the previous owner hasn't registered it you can plate it legally.


If this Honday weighs 130kg I can't for the life of me understand why one would buy it vs a KTM 500 / Husq 501 on the one side and a KTM 690/Husq 701 on the other side. esp at R135K.
You can save 20kg  on the 500/501 with same service intervals or for 10kg more you can have 10 000km service intervals with the 690/701 slipper cluth and 70HP.


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 03:42:30 pm
+1

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 28, 2018, 03:52:52 pm


If you buy new or if the previous owner hasn't registered it you can plate it legally.


If this Honday weighs 130kg I can't for the life of me understand why one would buy it vs a KTM 500 / Husq 501 on the one side and a KTM 690/Husq 701 on the other side. esp at R135K.
You can save 20kg  on the 500/501 with same service intervals or for 10kg more you can have 10 000km service intervals with the 690/701 slipper cluth and 70HP.

Thanks for the info on WR, wonder why more people do not plate them considering how many Japanese fans are out there in RSA (2SD???)

The KTM comparo is not right though. You can have 690/701 for 30 kg more, and probably for 5 - 10 kg less you can have 500/501. You are mixing dry and wet weights. I can tell you that 690 is hell of a much heavier bike than 500 and this 450 is going to be closer to 500 if not more or less the same. 690 is very different category than these 500 - 450s.


But yes, the price is going to be problem for Honda to move significant numbers of this 450 in SA.

Edit: and you will be able to loose few kgs of that Honda that were added to suppress noise - so it will be probably more or less wash with 500.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 28, 2018, 04:48:24 pm
Yeah I did not see that the Honda weight was wet weight of 131kg but still:
7.6litres equal +- 7.6KG.
2016 KTM 500 XCW Wet Weight = 114kg with 8.5l of fuel.
2016 KTM 690 Enduro  140kg Dry + 7.6 litres of fuel = 147.6kg replace that massive exhaust  and you shave at least 5kg off that.

The only reason buying this Honda at R135K would be if you refuse to buy anything that haven't got that Honda wing on as a badge.

if it was a CRF250L version but with a capacity of 450cc then I would understand.
But each to their own. Whatever gets your heart pumping faster I guess. :)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 28, 2018, 05:15:07 pm
Yeah I did not see that the Honda weight was wet weight of 131kg but still:
7.6litres equal +- 7.6KG.
2016 KTM 500 XCW Wet Weight = 114kg with 8.5l of fuel.
2016 KTM 690 Enduro  140kg Dry + 7.6 litres of fuel = 147.6kg replace that massive exhaust  and you shave at least 5kg off that.

The only reason buying this Honda at R135K would be if you refuse to buy anything that haven't got that Honda wing on as a badge.

if it was a CRF250L version but with a capacity of 450cc then I would understand.

Look, we are off topic a bit and I cannot believe I'm defending Honda as I have no love for the brand (though I do applaud them for at least trying finally and bringing out this bike) - but where are you geting those weights? First of all, you cannot compare XCW to 450L, you have to compare it to EXC, as that one also has all the crap to make it through Euro/California emision/noice regulations. The best I found is that 2016 EXC is 113 kg (250lb) dry. So with petrol about 120 kg. But I wouldn't bet too much money on it as KTM dry weight usually means without any liquids - petrol, engine oil, battery liquid and even suspension oil if I remember correctly. There is no way 690 is 148kg full - the correct number is roundabout 165 kg (I have seen somewhere people who actually weighted it).

So with all that taken into account 500 (at least 2016 model) will come pretty close to this Honda, max 5 - 10 kg less. Plus Honda is 450 with less moving mass in the engine, which may make it feel actually lighter. I have ridden some recent model KTM 300 and it felt like bicycle compared to 500, even though it is only 5 - 10 kg lighter.

Weight is definitely not something that would put me off this 450. Declared power would - I think by now it is clear that they are really going to release it with 25 HP - except I'm pretty sure that it will take USA about a day to figure out how to get to 50 HP in one afternoon with spanner in one hand and beer in another. If it wouldn't be for 500/501 existence, I would indeed be very interested to get one of these.

And I'm pretty sure the bike is not going to be R135k (unless 500 is R150k, by the release date). It will be about 10k cheaper than whatever KTM will want for 500. Still pricey, but definitely cheaper alternative for those who don't want to touch KTMsquarna.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on May 28, 2018, 05:23:22 pm
I just don't trust them yet. Think the LC motors in the 640's, 690's...  :o

And how old are the oldest 500's? And how many km's or hours?

If the new ones are better, then it's good news for all.

The problem with throwing a manufacturer under the bus is that every manufacturer has good bikes and lemons. Some of the hardiest dirt bikes I've owned have been KTM's (KTM 2T's and KTM 525) and trust me, I tried hard to kill my first 525. Having said this, I agree on the Yamaha suspension, my personal favourite but my last WR450 (2007) ergo made the bike handle like a plank. Honda ergo's (450x) are nice but I found the engine bland and suspension ok'ish.

The Husky501 (or KTM500) in my opinion is the best in class along with maybe the Beta large bore for true dual sport bikes. Take for example the built in cush rubbers in the clutch basket, that's really neat....and they're actually manufactured with a wiring harness for all roadworthy stuff which saves a lot of effort.

The point I'm trying to make is that this argument about this brand versus that brand is mute since they all make good models and bad models.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 28, 2018, 07:17:49 pm
Yeah I did not see that the Honda weight was wet weight of 131kg but still:
7.6litres equal +- 7.6KG.
2016 KTM 500 XCW Wet Weight = 114kg with 8.5l of fuel.
2016 KTM 690 Enduro  140kg Dry + 7.6 litres of fuel = 147.6kg replace that massive exhaust  and you shave at least 5kg off that.

The only reason buying this Honda at R135K would be if you refuse to buy anything that haven't got that Honda wing on as a badge.

if it was a CRF250L version but with a capacity of 450cc then I would understand.
But each to their own. Whatever gets your heart pumping faster I guess. :)

This is rich coming from you , seeing as you were singing the praises of that 170+kg BMW 300 thing not very long ago
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 28, 2018, 07:25:38 pm

If you buy new or if the previous owner hasn't registered it you can plate it legally.


If this Honday weighs 130kg I can't for the life of me understand why one would buy it vs a KTM 500 / Husq 501 on the one side and a KTM 690/Husq 701 on the other side. esp at R135K.
You can save 20kg  on the 500/501 with same service intervals or for 10kg more you can have 10 000km service intervals with the 690/701 slipper cluth and 70HP.

Nope , the NaTIS certificate will state very clearly whether a vehicle can be licensed for road use or not , it is possible to get them registered and licensed but you will not receive a disc for it if the certificate states it is for off road use only . Due to loopholes some of the older bikes were able to bypass this and get through .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 07:44:04 pm
Nope , the NaTIS certificate will state very clearly whether a vehicle can be licensed for road use or not , it is possible to get them registered and licensed but you will not receive a disc for it if the certificate states it is for off road use only . Due to loopholes some of the older bikes were able to bypass this and get through .

Are you saying that some older bikes were certified as off road only but via some "loophole" it was circumvented?


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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 28, 2018, 07:47:11 pm
Nope , the NaTIS certificate will state very clearly whether a vehicle can be licensed for road use or not , it is possible to get them registered and licensed but you will not receive a disc for it if the certificate states it is for off road use only . Due to loopholes some of the older bikes were able to bypass this and get through .

Are you saying that some older bikes were certified as off road only but via some "loophole" it was circumvented?


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Yip , as far as I am aware it is extremely difficult to get an off road certified bike licensed , but then again bribery seems to work  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 07:50:09 pm
Nope , the NaTIS certificate will state very clearly whether a vehicle can be licensed for road use or not , it is possible to get them registered and licensed but you will not receive a disc for it if the certificate states it is for off road use only . Due to loopholes some of the older bikes were able to bypass this and get through .

Are you saying that some older bikes were certified as off road only but via some "loophole" it was circumvented?


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Yip , as far as I am aware it is extremely difficult to get an off road certified bike licensed , but then again bribery seems to work 
Searching the archives for my road legal YZ450's papers.
Everything was done by the book and it had the license disc and everything.

So no, it can be done without any bribery

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 28, 2018, 07:52:00 pm
It is not supposed to be possible , that is the whole purpose of certification
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 07:53:59 pm
It is not supposed to be possible , that is the whole purpose of certification
Of course. Not all "off roads" are registered as such.
My YZ being case in point.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180528/806fcc7b67570196f6380e713e28ab08.jpg)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 28, 2018, 08:34:55 pm
My Husaberg 650 and KTM 530 were marked as offroad only but both received licence disks. Trust me no bribes it just seems luck of the draw who is sitting behind the pc screen that particular day. As mentioned before it is much easier if the bikes papers are still with the dealer and was not licenced before.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on May 28, 2018, 08:36:18 pm
Hey WS, did you get it licensed too. Certificate of registration was a requirement in all new vehicles from the last few years, including dirt bikes but roadworthy and license not possible as far as I'm aware.

Like Sidetrack says, perhaps it has to do with if the Clerk is sleeping or not.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 28, 2018, 08:45:24 pm
Hey WS, did you get it licensed too. Certificate of registration was a requirement in all new vehicles from the last few years, including dirt bikes but roadworthy and license not possible as far as I'm aware.

Like Sidetrack says, perhaps it has to do with if the Clerk is sleeping or not.

More likely they are clueless
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on May 28, 2018, 08:46:56 pm
My Husaberg 650 and KTM 530 were marked as offroad only but both received licence disks.

About that.  Where exactly is it suppose to say "offroad only" if you look at the papers above.

My bike papers say "Husaberg Off Road" under "Make/Fabrikaat" but that is just a name of the bike and not a classification.  The name of a vehicle can be "rocket ship" but it does not make it one.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on May 28, 2018, 08:49:20 pm
IOW. If you have papers for the bike and make it roadworthy then what stops you from getting it through roadworthy and getting a licence disc?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on May 28, 2018, 08:50:11 pm
My Husaberg 650 and KTM 530 were marked as offroad only but both received licence disks.

About that.  Where exactly is it suppose to say "offroad only" if you look at the papers above.

My bike papers say "Husaberg Off Road" under "Make/Fabrikaat" but that is just a name of the bike and not a classification.  The name of a vehicle can be "rocket ship" but it does not make it one.

Just says Offroad, not Offroad only.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 28, 2018, 08:54:49 pm
IOW. If you have papers for the bike and make it roadworthy then what stops you from getting it through roadworthy and getting a licence disc?

The Natis System - depends how it has been loaded and coded by the importer. I know for example one could plate a 6 Days EXC due to it being Euro spec and having a road kit at at sale but not a standard EXC.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 28, 2018, 08:58:20 pm
My 650 also said Husaberg Off Road but strangely it did have a licence number so heck knows. Wolfskaaps YZ was on the road proper with plate and the works as well.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 28, 2018, 09:04:43 pm
IOW. If you have papers for the bike and make it roadworthy then what stops you from getting it through roadworthy and getting a licence disc?

A NaTIS certificate is something issued to the dealer by the importer , this has all the necessary information about the vehicle and is not something that is supposed to be given to the client , I suppose for want of a better word you could call it an import certificate . On this certificate it will state the status of the vehicle , ie . off road , road , quad . Now by law all motorcycles have to be licensed and registered , especially if it has been financed , but in the case of off road or quad you should not be able to obtain a disc for the vehicle even though it is licensed and registered , and these vehicles also have a much lower annual license fee than a road going vehicle .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 28, 2018, 09:09:48 pm
My 650 also said Husaberg Off Road but strangely it did have a licence number so heck knows. Wolfskaaps YZ was on the road proper with plate and the works as well.

A bike can be registered and licensed without being plated - in fact this is required for financing even if "off-road". It would need a RWC and Natis clearance to be plated. The Natis register number is what determines if it can be plated and the system will block issuing of a disc if the register number is such that it is "racing" "off-road" etc.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on May 28, 2018, 09:44:23 pm
My CRF450X was offroad as well on the eNatis certificate.  I'm not saying that the R200 extra was a bribe, I think it was admin fees.  But it is most certainly plated. Now...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SchalkL on May 28, 2018, 09:45:09 pm
Is this thread still about the CRF450 children?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 28, 2018, 09:52:06 pm
My 650 also said Husaberg Off Road but strangely it did have a licence number so heck knows. Wolfskaaps YZ was on the road proper with plate and the works as well.

A bike can be registered and licensed without being plated - in fact this is required for financing even if "off-road". It would need a RWC and Natis clearance to be plated. The Natis register number is what determines if it can be plated and the system will block issuing of a disc if the register number is such that it is "racing" "off-road" etc.
Yes we know that.
Our bikes passed RWC and were properly plated.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 28, 2018, 09:55:23 pm
Is this thread still about the CRF450 children?

I think 5 posts about the CRF , the rest about KTM's , Yamaha''s and kakpraat  :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 28, 2018, 10:11:51 pm
The US L's does not have ABS most likely to sell in Europe they will need. Hopefully we will get the ones without ABS and save a bit on price. Still wonder if there will be a Rally with X based motor as well ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 28, 2018, 10:34:40 pm
The US L's does not have ABS most likely to sell in Europe they will need. Hopefully we will get the ones without ABS and save a bit on price. Still wonder if there will be a Rally with X based motor as well ?

I don't think it will have ABS. I've read somewhere that there is some kind of stipulation that 1 person enduro bikes don't need ABS even in Europe. I believe all KTM EXC models are road legal in Europe (must have plates) and I don't believe they have ABS.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DCR on May 29, 2018, 06:55:59 am
Yeah I did not see that the Honda weight was wet weight of 131kg but still:
7.6litres equal +- 7.6KG.
2016 KTM 500 XCW Wet Weight = 114kg with 8.5l of fuel.
2016 KTM 690 Enduro  140kg Dry + 7.6 litres of fuel = 147.6kg replace that massive exhaust  and you shave at least 5kg off that.

The only reason buying this Honda at R135K would be if you refuse to buy anything that haven't got that Honda wing on as a badge.

if it was a CRF250L version but with a capacity of 450cc then I would understand.
But each to their own. Whatever gets your heart pumping faster I guess. :)

This is rich coming from you , seeing as you were singing the praises of that 170+kg BMW 300 thing not very long ago

Is that really necessary? Where I come from one is allowed to like more than one bike for more than one use?

Or is one not allowed an opinion about the enduro bike you own because you also own a superbike or commuter bike?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on May 29, 2018, 07:15:34 am
As a result I ride every weekend and get proper red blooded fun without any trailering and early morning hassle, that just isn't warrantied for daily trip.
I ride every weekend and trailer my 300 every second or so.  We still need to go do Skurweberg and even Lanseria from Midrand sometime.
I should be riding again in a few weeks.

Ride from Midrand while we still can.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 29, 2018, 07:28:40 am
Yeah I did not see that the Honda weight was wet weight of 131kg but still:
7.6litres equal +- 7.6KG.
2016 KTM 500 XCW Wet Weight = 114kg with 8.5l of fuel.
2016 KTM 690 Enduro  140kg Dry + 7.6 litres of fuel = 147.6kg replace that massive exhaust  and you shave at least 5kg off that.

The only reason buying this Honda at R135K would be if you refuse to buy anything that haven't got that Honda wing on as a badge.

if it was a CRF250L version but with a capacity of 450cc then I would understand.
But each to their own. Whatever gets your heart pumping faster I guess. :)

This is rich coming from you , seeing as you were singing the praises of that 170+kg BMW 300 thing not very long ago

Is that really necessary? Where I come from one is allowed to like more than one bike for more than one use?

Or is one not allowed an opinion about the enduro bike you own because you also own a superbike or commuter bike?

Read the 310 thread where Omni was singing the praise of the 310 and supporting its excessive weight , it is all in context
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 29, 2018, 07:42:36 am
I seem to remember Honda winning one or two obscure American races with the CRF. What that race called again? Oh the Baja 500 and 1000.....

The current CRF450 range are still good bikes and they are essentially something like 15 years old. The 2009-10+ FI R models are beasts to ride! If this new bike is an improvement on those there is no reason why they can't charge KTM 450 money for it.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 29, 2018, 07:47:42 am
Yeah I did not see that the Honda weight was wet weight of 131kg but still:
7.6litres equal +- 7.6KG.
2016 KTM 500 XCW Wet Weight = 114kg with 8.5l of fuel.
2016 KTM 690 Enduro  140kg Dry + 7.6 litres of fuel = 147.6kg replace that massive exhaust  and you shave at least 5kg off that.

The only reason buying this Honda at R135K would be if you refuse to buy anything that haven't got that Honda wing on as a badge.

if it was a CRF250L version but with a capacity of 450cc then I would understand.
But each to their own. Whatever gets your heart pumping faster I guess. :)

This is rich coming from you , seeing as you were singing the praises of that 170+kg BMW 300 thing not very long ago

Is that really necessary? Where I come from one is allowed to like more than one bike for more than one use?

Or is one not allowed an opinion about the enduro bike you own because you also own a superbike or commuter bike?

Read the 310 thread where Omni was singing the praise of the 310 and supporting its excessive weight , it is all in context

 :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 29, 2018, 08:31:21 am
Exactly Dux - all in context. If only you can see that context. For instance price, intended use and target market.... but letís not go there again because  one can write one thing and some of you guys read something completely different.

Now that itís a different brand or bike that you like all of a sudden weight is not important.  ::)
So is it or isnít it important? Rhetorical question  :dousing:


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 29, 2018, 08:47:06 am
Firstly , there hasn't been a confirmed price yet so you were touting R135k but others in the industry have mentioned closer to R110k and that is a R25k difference , yes it is heavier than the equivalent KTM , but then again from what I can see the Honda meets more stringent criteria such as emissions and noise , none of those KTM's as far as I am aware are California friendly whereas the Honda is . Just look at that enormous silencer compared to those on the KTM's , that is not lightweight stuff but is there for a reason and is already a big weight saving just waiting to happen .
The only way to tell for certain is when Cycle World do a comparative test and put both on the scales and do a proper unbiased comparison .

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 29, 2018, 08:50:43 am
Better video. Digital dash with tach, fuel light, LED headlight. Now we're getting somewhere


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: JonW on May 29, 2018, 08:59:52 am
Alternative review of the 450L

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 29, 2018, 10:33:07 am
Nope , the NaTIS certificate will state very clearly whether a vehicle can be licensed for road use or not , it is possible to get them registered and licensed but you will not receive a disc for it if the certificate states it is for off road use only . Due to loopholes some of the older bikes were able to bypass this and get through .

Are you saying that some older bikes were certified as off road only but via some "loophole" it was circumvented?


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Yip , as far as I am aware it is extremely difficult to get an off road certified bike licensed , but then again bribery seems to work 
Searching the archives for my road legal YZ450's papers.
Everything was done by the book and it had the license disc and everything.

So no, it can be done without any bribery

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Exactly. It really can be done without a grease of the palms, but the bike must be new or not have been registered for offroad use.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 29, 2018, 10:34:50 am
The only way to tell for certain is when Cycle World do a comparative test and put both on the scales and do a proper unbiased comparison .

Agreed but I'll go further and not just say Cycle World, but from a range of reviewers and more importantly - for me anyway - some of the more independent reviewers on Youtube.

Alternative review of the 450L



Thats not a review it's a opinion...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on May 29, 2018, 01:41:55 pm
Very interesting debate like thread this is, and since it go off topic so many times I'll also drop a cent..

Never owned any off road or plated enduro for that matter but did ride with an old buddy on many occasion in the dry riverbed in Brits which is for those who knows Brits a very cool play ground (Near Brits Technical collage) There I had endless enjoyment on the cost of my friend (his bikes) but atleast I supplied the beers, petrol and braai afterwards.

Now Vince is a mechanic and ride anything he can find as a bargain and restore. He is no brand based slut like many of us and just fix and ride anything, and he is by the way the best rider I have ever seen in action.

His experience and question as a mechanic who has owned and worked on most of these bikes was: Why don't Kawasaki bring out a road legal kit with the KLX450? I thought that although he likes some KTM's, some Yamahas (Owned quite a few) and some Hodas that he would be a 'Yamaha or Honda man', but no he ranked the KLX450 high and wished Kawa would have brought it in a plated option like the KTM500. He could not register/plate his own 450 regardless of having the paperwork. So I am also surprised to learn here that some recon it is possible.... ???

I personally at this stage vote for the KTM500 because it has been around, it is sorted yet simple (in a good way) and it seems KTM's achilles hill is electronics and the 500 lacks that fancy shit luckily.
Honda is just regarded as a save choice like Toyota (pok I own a Honda as well for the very reason :peepwall: )
If the rest of the manufacturers follow with 450's which can be plated it will be great. I never thought of the DRZ400 as a plated Enduro bike though, it was definitely not that special both in ergonomics/suspension to be on par with lets say a KTM500.
Kawasaki is SA do not have a big following other than superbikes and side by sides, but I would love them to bring a street legal version of the klx450 and at least I know of one more mate that agree with me on this one  :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 29, 2018, 02:11:45 pm
If this bike is over 50HP as some of the videos are predicting and the Curb weight is 131Kgs (honda normally dont bullshit) it is going to be proper fast off road.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 29, 2018, 02:17:25 pm
If this bike is over 50HP as some of the videos are predicting and the Curb weight is 131Kgs (honda normally dont bullshit) it is going to be proper fast off road.

How is that any different to the previous models? Apart from being heavier
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 02:18:24 pm
Very interesting debate like thread this is, and since it go off topic so many times I'll also drop a cent..

Never owned any off road or plated enduro for that matter but did ride with an old buddy on many occasion in the dry riverbed in Brits which is for those who knows Brits a very cool play ground (Near Brits Technical collage) There I had endless enjoyment on the cost of my friend (his bikes) but atleast I supplied the beers, petrol and braai afterwards.

Now Vince is a mechanic and ride anything he can find as a bargain and restore. He is no brand based slut like many of us and just fix and ride anything, and he is by the way the best rider I have ever seen in action.

His experience and question as a mechanic who has owned and worked on most of these bikes was: Why don't Kawasaki bring out a road legal kit with the KLX450? I thought that although he likes some KTM's, some Yamahas (Owned quite a few) and some Hodas that he would be a 'Yamaha or Honda man', but no he ranked the KLX450 high and wished Kawa would have brought it in a plated option like the KTM500. He could not register/plate his own 450 regardless of having the paperwork. So I am also surprised to learn here that some recon it is possible.... ???

I personally at this stage vote for the KTM500 because it has been around, it is sorted yet simple (in a good way) and it seems KTM's achilles hill is electronics and the 500 lacks that fancy shit luckily.
Honda is just regarded as a save choice like Toyota (pok I own a Honda as well for the very reason :peepwall: )
If the rest of the manufacturers follow with 450's which can be plated it will be great. I never thought of the DRZ400 as a plated Enduro bike though, it was definitely not that special both in ergonomics/suspension to be on par with lets say a KTM500.
Kawasaki is SA do not have a big following other than superbikes and side by sides, but I would love them to bring a street legal version of the klx450 and at least I know of one more mate that agree with me on this one  :lol8:

Tom, you just reminded me - I actually own plated KLX450 just not 100% sure where it is. OK - I remember one of my mates has it. I bought it new long time ago when they were launched (they were sub-par compared to competition already when launched - as enduro though) and dealer put it on plates for me - no problem whatsoever (though I don't know how they did it or if any bribes were involved, I just assumed it is perfectly legal to do that), and of course with road worthy kit on it, so it was/is available.

The fact that I own the bike and have almost completely forgotten about it will give you a clue how much I rate it...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 02:20:41 pm
If this bike is over 50HP as some of the videos are predicting and the Curb weight is 131Kgs (honda normally dont bullshit) it is going to be proper fast off road.

How is that any different to the previous models? Apart from being heavier

It isn't (or rather is very much if not uncorked, but who would leave it like that), the only difference I'm aware of is 6th gear, which the others (X & R) don't have if I understand it correctly.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 29, 2018, 02:30:53 pm
And you can ride it to where ever you want to go legally.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on May 29, 2018, 02:31:31 pm
If this bike is over 50HP as some of the videos are predicting and the Curb weight is 131Kgs (honda normally dont bullshit) it is going to be proper fast off road.

How is that any different to the previous models? Apart from being heavier

It isn't (or rather is very much if not uncorked, but who would leave it like that), the only difference I'm aware of is 6th gear, which the others (X & R) don't have if I understand it correctly.
[/quote

The R and RX have 5 gears , the L and X have 6 gears
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 29, 2018, 02:32:54 pm
I meant how is the fact that it will be fast off-road any different to the existing models? Some people are reacting as if this bike hadn't existed at all in any guise for the last 15 years. And a few members said said they have plated theirs?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 02:36:37 pm
I meant how is the fact that it will be fast off-road any different to the existing models? Some people are reacting as if this bike hadn't existed at all in any guise for the last 15 years. And a few members said said they have plated theirs?

I know and I was agreeing with you. And if Dux is correct and X has also 6 gears, and it can be plated like other 450/500 enduros in SA, it begs a question why go for L at all. One would do better with X as it has full power out of the box and one doesn't need to splash more to de-cork it. One will have to splash for roadworthy kit, but that is comparatively cheaper to ECU flash/new ECU and new pipe, removal of throttle stop, etc.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Poffmuis on May 29, 2018, 02:37:42 pm
131  :o

thats more than XR600, DRZ400 full enduro which are way old bikes
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on May 29, 2018, 02:39:05 pm
Double post
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Poffmuis on May 29, 2018, 02:40:53 pm
New X has 6 gears :)



15kg for the extra gear I suppose, you know all that gear does add up...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 29, 2018, 02:43:34 pm
The 450x 60 HP is full race with short service intervals and can hardly be used as your everyday bike. What I am saying this is not a pretend bike like the CRF250l it is pretty close to the real deal.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 02:48:20 pm
The 450x 60 HP is full race with short service intervals and can hardly be used as your everyday bike. What I am saying this is not a pretend bike like the CRF250l it is pretty close to the real deal.

As far as I know, it has more or less the same service intervals, so that argument is void. KTM 500 has about the same power (60HP) and is being used merrily for dual sporting (not everyday bike - which L is not by any stretch of imagination with 1000 km oil changes and 32k km top end rebuild).

I think in SA where you can plate X (if you can - seems edgy has done it), that will be better option than L. L seems to be targeted on countries with much more stringent rules enforcement like Europe and California, where they will actually nail you if they find you tinkering with any emission/noice retraints put on the bike. For example 500EXC in Europe and US has locked ECU so that you cannot change the map, while as far as I know on the same bike in SA (and probably Australia) one can change the map (plus here you can plate XCW, which is ilegal up north).
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 29, 2018, 03:06:16 pm
Where did you get 1000Km service levels I read 10000KM service levels bigger oil Tank different compression ratio and a 3 ringed piston.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 03:11:05 pm
ttention: Hardy (Specialsed Adventures)
24/05/2018


2019 HONDA CRF450L

New model updates: Using the CRF450R moto-crosser as a base, Honda's new road-legal dual-purpose motorcycle has a tough, lightweight chassis built to find all the available grip, powered by an engine that delivers strong, usable power right from the bottom. Durable, high quality parts and long service intervals aim for a worry-free riding and ownership experience.

Contents:

1 Introduction

2 Model overview

3 Key features

4 Technical specifications

1. Introduction

A true dual-purpose motorcycle should be many things; off-road it needs to be light weight, with quality suspension and handling ability that keeps life easy as the going gets harder. Its engine has to make good power and torque from the bottom up - the sort that is supremely usable, allowing the rider to find all the rear wheel grip possible, whatever the terrain.

All the attributes that make it great fun off-road also enable it to be really useful around town; narrow and nimble, a dual-purpose machine slips through gaps, soaks up the hits from rough roads and stays well ahead of traffic thanks to smart, low-gear acceleration. It also needs to be turn-key reliable, with sensible intervals between major service work.

Competition machines can make a solid base for dual-purpose adaptation. But there is much to consider. Race-level performance brings with it an intensive maintenance schedule, which is simply too much for many 'hobby' trail riders, who just want to push a button and go - and keep on going, Furthermore, a barely-disguised race bike can mean crucial road-going elements - lights, indicators, ignition switch - are not as user-friendly and durable as they should be.

Honda understands this, and with a desire to produce a dual-purpose bike that draws strongly on the fundamental performance of a race machine, yet with much more 'normal' service intervals and high-quality road ancillaries, has taken its CRF450R moto-crosser as the base to start from, and created the new CRF450L.

It is unmistakably a race-bred CRF - and looks it - but with the additions and modifications needed to make it both road legal and supremely useable in a trail environment. As such, the CRF450L is a complete package, as happy roosting trails as it is linking them up on-road. And with Honda engineering and build quality at its core, is sure to do so for years to come.

Mr M. Uchiyama, Large Project Leader (LPL) 19YM CRF450L:

"The CRF450L is about having maximum fun out on the dirt. It looks like a CRF450R because, really, it is - just a trail-friendly, road-legal version. That's what the 'L' stands for - 'legal'. It's been engineered to deliver excellent handling feel, with linear engine torque that helps the rider make the most of the available grip in all conditions. AND, it contains its HRC-derived CRF technology within a real-world service schedule."

2. Model Overview

The journey from full race to road legal trail was a detailed one for the CRF450L. Road legality required the engine to gain EURO4 compliance, while from a longevity and usability viewpoint, the power output and character, needed careful attention.

It's still a CRF450R; just one that's quieter, both mechanically from the chassis and engine, as well as its new exhaust. Both fuelling and ignition maps are now managed by 02 lambda sensor; compression ratio has been lowered and crank mass increased for improved drivability. The gearbox is a 6-speed - for longer legs on the road - and a cush drive has been added to the 18-inch rear wheel.

The plastics are lifted directly from the CRF450R and all lighting is LED, with the front headlight in particular throwing out a penetrating beam. Increased volume for the titanium fuel tank adds range and all the items that make the CRF450L ready to purchase as a licensed, road going machine - such as speedometer and horn - are present as standard.

3. Key Features

3.1 Engine

Based on the CRF450R, with first major service at 32,000km
EURO4 compliant, with electric start
Greater crank inertia improves drivability and feel for traction
6-speed gearbox
While the chassis was more straightforward to convert from its CRF450R moto-crosser specification to a dual-purpose performance level, the 449cc engine needed more consideration from Honda's engineers. Requirements were several: the need for it to pass EURO4 emissions and noise regulations, and to be usable for a wide variety of riders in many differing situations both on and off-road.

While the fundamental architecture of the four-valve Unicam powerplant remains the same, many details have been changed to support the broader role: the crank's mass has been increased, resulting in 13% more inertia which, for a trail rider, equals improved torque feel and response; valve timing has been revised to give the broader, smoother spread of power and torque; the gearbox is now 6-speed, rather than 5 for longer range use on tarmac; left and right engine covers wear outer covers to reduce noise;

Elsewhere, the ACG has been uprated, to provide the required electrical power for the LED lights and to maintain battery charge during lower-speed running. The battery itself is a high-volume unit.

Bore and stroke are unchanged from the CRF450R, at 96mm x 62.1mm, but the piston uses 3 rings instead of 2 for greater durability. Compression ratio is 12.0:1 (compared 13.5:1). The redesigned airbox feeds the PGM-FI, managed by a lambda sensor in the large-volume single exhaust (which replaces the 'stubby' dual-pipe design of the CRF450R). An Air Injection (AI) system and catalyser clean up the spent gases.

The four-valve Unicam cylinder head features a finger rocker arm on the inlet valves; valve lift is 7.7mm with 6.7mm exhaust valve lift. Inlet valve diameter is 38mm. The valve springs are oval in cross section and valve angle is 9į intake/10.5į exhaust.

The clutch spins 7 friction discs with a 2mm clutch plate efficiently dissipating heat; the springs generate a good, consistent connection. The front sprocket is a 13T, the rear 51T.

Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-rider's perspective is the engine's reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450L's build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km.

3.2 Chassis

Drawn from the 18YM CRF450R, with minor adaptations for its dual purpose role
Full LED lighting, increased fuel tank volume and sidestand
Larger radiator volume, plus electric fan
Styling closely mirrors that of CRF450R
Having received a ground-up redesign in 2016, the CRF450R's chassis was a perfect place for the CRF450L to start out from, with changes to match the machine's vastly broader usage range, and road legal mission.

Firstly, the tapered dual-spar aluminium beam frame was made slightly wider at the swingarm pivot points, to allow for the greater engine width resulting from the 6-speed gearbox. The headstock was modified to mount a steering lock and the aluminium swingarm injected with urethane to reduce noise. The rear subframe is the same, with mounting point adjusted to take the taillight and the right-exit single exhaust muffler.

Rake and trail are set at 28.5į/122mm with wheelbase increased 18mm from the CRF450R to 1500mm, for greater stability. Both the R and the L feature 22mm fork offset.Wet weight is 130.8kg; seat height is 940mm.

A 49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork - adjustable for preload plus compression damping - is matched by a fully adjustable Showa rear shock, operated through Pro-Link. A 260mm wave-pattern disc delivers effective heat dissipation, power and feel from the two-piston brake caliper working it; a matching 240mm wave-pattern disc and single-piston caliper is at the rear.

Whereas the CRF450R machine uses a 19-inch rear wheel, the CRF450L's is an 18-inch (to fit enduro-spec tyres), with the addition of a cush drive to absorb chain shock; a sealed 520 chain is protected by a plastic chain guard. The front wheel is a 21-inch and both rims are finished in black. Tyres are sized 80/100-21 front and 120/80-18 rear.

The CRF450L's style draws fully on that of the CRF450R. Carried over are the rear mudguard, side panels and bash plate. Svelte side shrouds hide a larger radiator volume plus electric fan. All lighting (including the indicators and license-plate light) is LED; a speedometer, horn, brake-light switch and mirrors satisfy legal requirements while a sidestand adds convenience. The CRF450R employs a 6.3L titanium fuel tank; the CRF450L ups the volume 1.3L to 7.6L. The fuel cap also locks in place.

4. Technical Specifications

 

 

ENGINE

 

Type

Liquid-cooled 4-stroke single cylinder uni-cam

Displacement

449cc

Bore and Stroke

96.0mm x 62.1mm

Compression Ratio

12.0:1

FUEL SYSTEM

 

Carburation

PGM-FI Fuel injection

Fuel Tank Capacity

7.6 litres

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

 

Ignition

Digital CDI

Starter

Electric

DRIVETRAIN

 

Clutch Type

Wet multiplate

Transmission Type

Chain

Final Drive

Chain

FRAME

 

Type

Aluminium twin tube

CHASSIS

 

Dimensions (LīWīH)

2,280mm x 825mm x 1,260mm

Wheelbase

1500mm

Caster Angle

28.5į

Trail

122mm

Seat Height

940mm

Ground Clearance

315mm

Kerb Weight

130.8kg

SUSPENSION

 

Type Front

49mm Showa steel-sprung USD fork

Type Rear

Showa monoshock using Honda Pro-Link system

WHEELS

 

Type Front

Aluminium spoke

Type Rear

Aluminium spoke

Tyres Front

80/100-21
Tyres Rear

120/80-18

BRAKES

 

Front

Single Disk

Rear

Single Disk

 

All specifications are provisional and subject to change without notice.

*The CRF450L will be launching in South Africa in the last quarter of 2018.

                                                                     

This is how I received the press release from Honda SA - but I suspect there is a few typo's in it. - Will get Barend to address the issues

@Bwana: In official Honda press release that has been hanging on internet since last week, including information about 18kW HP (that it seems is going to be reality). Above is copy of that press release posted here by Hardy, but you can find it easily also on official Honda webpage.

You weren't keeping up, were you  ;) This whole thread is so long mostly because of that one paragraph in that press release stipulating power and service intervals:

"Peak power is 18.4kW, with peak torque of 32Nm. Important from the hobby trail-rider's perspective is the engine's reliability and gap between service intervals. And this is where the CRF450L's build quality and design really stands out; it will go 32,000km between major strip downs, with an air filter oil and oil filter change every 1000km."

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 29, 2018, 03:18:53 pm
Do you believe it is 18KW when the CRF250Rally is 19KW I think you are following MR Fake news.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 03:25:08 pm
Do you believe it is 18KW when the CRF250Rally is 19KW I think you are following MR Fake news.

Are you for real? Do your own research, just going through first part of this thread would suffice. I didn't publish those numbers, Honda did. If you bothered to look you might have noticed that that PR release was published here by Hardy and you can check easily that it is the same as on official Honda website. So if anybody is spreadin fake news it is Honda. And they did it already week ago, and despite the uproar they caused (if you think here is bad, just head to advrider) and multiple queries from people in UK and US, they never corrected those numbers - actually their UK rep confirmed those power numbers.

And FYI, I said repeatedly here that that number doesn't matter in SA as it will be easy to uncork (get all the emission crap off) to about 50 HP. But then logical question is why no go straight for X and get it plates. More power, lighter, about the same service intervals and 6 gears like L.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 29, 2018, 03:31:00 pm
Honda is clever, they claim 18kw, then when the bike is released it's 25kw feels very strong. :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on May 29, 2018, 03:40:30 pm
Where did you get 1000Km service levels I read 10000KM service levels bigger oil Tank different compression ratio and a 3 ringed piston.

Bwana, where did you get this info from? Sounds like nonsense.

With 10000km service interval for the 450x/r based engine, you can expect your first service to be a complete engine rebuild. I'm guessing they still have the split case where engine and gearbox oil are separate. You probably looking at 1l of oil, maybe marginally more on this revised model. Also, what do you mean by bigger oil tank?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on May 29, 2018, 03:40:56 pm
The 450x 60 HP is full race with short service intervals and can hardly be used as your everyday bike. What I am saying this is not a pretend bike like the CRF250l it is pretty close to the real deal.
What is the CRF250L pretending to be ? I'm sure those who buy it knows exactly that it is a low maintenance commuter with some off road ability.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 29, 2018, 03:47:18 pm
I apologize if thats what Honda is releasing I find it hard to believe that an expensive bike like this with only 18KW can be matched by a cheaper CRF250L with similar figures except the torque. I have ridden the 250L and believe me it is pap and has 10000KM intervals. The old Suzuki 400DR had over 40HP.  Something is wrong hear or have Honda gone nuts.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 03:55:43 pm
I apologize if thats what Honda is releasing I find it hard to believe that an expensive bike like this with only 18KW can be matched by a cheaper CRF250L with similar figures except the torque. I have ridden the 250L and believe me it is pap and has 10000KM intervals. The old Suzuki 400DR had over 40HP.  Something is wrong hear or have Honda gone nuts.

I don't think its a trainsmash - it's Honda's way to sneak this bike in as road legal in some of the most stringent places like Europe and California. People who are really interested in this category know well enough that it will be easy to uncork to much closer to X power numbers.

But from purely marketing point of view it is unfortunate. Road legal KTM EXC 500 is rated if I'm not mistaken at about 39HP (non-legal XCW about 60 HP), so just purely from that point of view it would have been nicer for Honda to claim numbers closer to that. But as I said, this number itself is not going to stop people intersted in this bike - the price might.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 29, 2018, 03:59:24 pm
Well if its meant to compete with the KTM 500 on the specs and numbers the KTM shits in I wouldnt even look at the Honda.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on May 29, 2018, 04:12:16 pm
Anyone who's been around bikes for a while knows this HP figure is a mute point.  Look past it, it will be good for an where between 45 - 55hp, probably closer to the latter, certainly once the pipe is ditched and the mapping messed with by the uncorking fundi's.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 29, 2018, 04:18:44 pm
Where did you get 1000Km service levels I read 10000KM service levels bigger oil Tank different compression ratio and a 3 ringed piston.

Bwana, where did you get this info from? Sounds like nonsense.

With 10000km service interval for the 450x/r based engine, you can expect your first service to be a complete engine rebuild. I'm guessing they still have the split case where engine and gearbox oil are separate. You probably looking at 1l of oil, maybe marginally more on this revised model. Also, what do you mean by bigger oil tank?

I think it was established here (though I don't know from which source except that it was sidetrack  :)) that L will have 1.7 litre oil, which is the same as 690 (500 has 1.5-1.6l). And Bwana is right on three rings on piston and lower compression ratio to X - that was specified in that press release. I believe that this will bike will do easily 2 - 3k km between oil changes without sweat (if not used for racing or rather highway distance riding), but Honda is just covering their ass. Indeed they specified that those intervals are for extreme use, which they stipulated as long distances on highway  - funnily nothing about dirt use  ;).

As far as I can see, once uncorked this can be nice successor to XR650R (definitely not XRL), which had similar service intervals stipulated (and didn't have starter button), and yet many of them rode with much longer oil change and rebuild intervals. The only problem as far as I can see anywhere except libtarded Europe and California - 450X. And of course 500/501.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 29, 2018, 04:26:27 pm
It is quite obvious that a bike of around 450cc will put out considerably more power than this 18kw quoted.

Even if they make it very low maintenance, like 10 000 km oil change intervals, etc, it could still easily make around 30kw [ around 40hp].
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on May 29, 2018, 04:57:09 pm
It is quite obvious that a bike of around 450cc will put out considerably more power than this 18kw quoted.

Even if they make it very low maintenance, like 10 000 km oil change intervals, etc, it could still easily make around 30kw [ around 40hp].

Well, if its 45hp with 7500km oil change then I want two! Serious! O0

My blood is red!..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: alphadog on May 29, 2018, 06:11:15 pm
the bike has already been road tested, its all over you tube ,why are you still guessing and speculating , 16000 dollars in the states.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Offshore on May 29, 2018, 06:53:18 pm
the bike has already been road tested, its all over you tube ,why are you still guessing and speculating , 16000 dollars in the states.
That is R200000.00 , more expensive than the AT. Nee Man.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 29, 2018, 07:02:07 pm
the bike has already been road tested, its all over you tube ,why are you still guessing and speculating , 16000 dollars in the states.
That is R200000.00 , more expensive than the AT. Nee Man.

NO - priced at $10 399 - available in USA in September.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on May 29, 2018, 07:35:18 pm
Well if its meant to compete with the KTM 500 on the specs and numbers the KTM shits in I wouldnt even look at the Honda.

 :3some:

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Offshore on May 29, 2018, 08:37:04 pm
I have always admired the Locals that ride without ATTGAT like that. Hardcore. :peepwall:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on May 29, 2018, 09:35:58 pm
Ja - I'll just wait and see what happens. De-restricting Honda's is mostly an easy thing that takes a few spanners, a grinder and a cutting blade or two. Till then comprades!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on May 29, 2018, 09:43:08 pm
Very interesting debate like thread this is, and since it go off topic so many times I'll also drop a cent..

Never owned any off road or plated enduro for that matter but did ride with an old buddy on many occasion in the dry riverbed in Brits which is for those who knows Brits a very cool play ground (Near Brits Technical collage) There I had endless enjoyment on the cost of my friend (his bikes) but atleast I supplied the beers, petrol and braai afterwards.

Now Vince is a mechanic and ride anything he can find as a bargain and restore. He is no brand based slut like many of us and just fix and ride anything, and he is by the way the best rider I have ever seen in action.

His experience and question as a mechanic who has owned and worked on most of these bikes was: Why don't Kawasaki bring out a road legal kit with the KLX450? I thought that although he likes some KTM's, some Yamahas (Owned quite a few) and some Hodas that he would be a 'Yamaha or Honda man', but no he ranked the KLX450 high and wished Kawa would have brought it in a plated option like the KTM500. He could not register/plate his own 450 regardless of having the paperwork. So I am also surprised to learn here that some recon it is possible.... ???

I personally at this stage vote for the KTM500 because it has been around, it is sorted yet simple (in a good way) and it seems KTM's achilles hill is electronics and the 500 lacks that fancy shit luckily.
Honda is just regarded as a save choice like Toyota (pok I own a Honda as well for the very reason :peepwall: )
If the rest of the manufacturers follow with 450's which can be plated it will be great. I never thought of the DRZ400 as a plated Enduro bike though, it was definitely not that special both in ergonomics/suspension to be on par with lets say a KTM500.
Kawasaki is SA do not have a big following other than superbikes and side by sides, but I would love them to bring a street legal version of the klx450 and at least I know of one more mate that agree with me on this one  :lol8:

Had one. On the road.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/3532j38.jpg)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Poffmuis on May 30, 2018, 06:43:19 am
sorry, this thread is a bit confusing.
Just to make sure.

Honda is brining a 450 that has 8.8 liter fuel capacity, 18kW and weighs 131kg for over R100 000?

as dit die geval is kan hulle dit mos maar op hulle maag gaan skryf
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Poffmuis on May 30, 2018, 06:45:11 am
actually, tank is 7.6l  :o
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 30, 2018, 08:39:56 am
the bike has already been road tested, its all over you tube ,why are you still guessing and speculating , 16000 dollars in the states.

Please tell me were there is a road test on this bike. Another thing I find interesting is on Honda Official websites and press releases no where do they mention power. I seem to remember with the the A/T we were all speculating HP and it was only once the bike had been released and tested did we get all the numbers.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on May 30, 2018, 08:41:54 am
the bike has already been road tested, its all over you tube ,why are you still guessing and speculating , 16000 dollars in the states.

Please tell me were there is a road test on this bike. Another thing I find interesting is on Honda Official websites and press releases no where do they mention power. I seem to remember with the the A/T we were all speculating HP and it was only once the bike had been released and tested did we get all the numbers.

I suspect he thought this thread was about the CRF1000
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 30, 2018, 08:46:41 am
the bike has already been road tested, its all over you tube ,why are you still guessing and speculating , 16000 dollars in the states.

Please tell me were there is a road test on this bike. Another thing I find interesting is on Honda Official websites and press releases no where do they mention power. I seem to remember with the the A/T we were all speculating HP and it was only once the bike had been released and tested did we get all the numbers.

https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 (https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10)

Exactly the same info as in the official press release  posted by Hardy.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on May 30, 2018, 08:50:38 am
Cut --> paste error from the 250 spec sheet they cribbed from.

No 450 bike will make 18kw; the old tech DRZ400 makes round 30 standard.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on May 30, 2018, 08:55:50 am
exactly the same info as in the official press release  posted by Hardy.


Thank you. I find that very disappointing if you going to up the power you will have to remove the Lamda sensor(complete new exhaust system) and reset the ECU which could be pricey. I await an official road test.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 30, 2018, 08:56:36 am
Cut --> paste error from the 250 spec sheet they cribbed from.

No 450 bike will make 18kw; the old tech DRZ400 makes round 30 standard.

And they couldn't fix it since 23rd of may?  Marketing damage sure has been done by now - unless the objective of marketing was negative publicity.

I think the official number stands to keep nazis oblivious and everybody who will buy this bike will just uncork it straight away. Smoke and mirrors we live in just to have some fun that was granted officially just decade or two ago.  >:(
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on May 30, 2018, 08:59:44 am
On advrider there was a snippet that may explain a bit the difference between Honda and KTM  - not sure how true. They say that this Honda has catalytic converter in exhaust, which will make it E5 compliant, while KTM doesn't, which is good enough for current E4, but will not be good enough for upcoming E5.

Just a blurb, not sure how true - and luckily advrider is going down on Thursday for 2 days, which may help me to get off that dump  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Poffmuis on May 30, 2018, 09:53:14 am
Cut --> paste error from the 250 spec sheet they cribbed from.

No 450 bike will make 18kw; the old tech DRZ400 makes round 30 standard.

my standard DRZ enduro model (119kg) did 40hp on dyno
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Battlestar on June 05, 2018, 07:31:56 pm
A bit more proper info

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 05, 2018, 08:00:12 pm
A bit more proper info

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/

This info been around for about a month. It Is a bit more objective but nothing really new imo.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on June 05, 2018, 09:39:15 pm


Quote from: Poffmuis on May 30, 2018, 09:53:14 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=224637.msg4068058#msg4068058)


>Quote from: shark_za on May 30, 2018, 08:50:38 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=224637.msg4067999#msg4067999)
Cut --> paste error from the 250 spec sheet they cribbed from.

No 450 bike will make 18kw; the old tech DRZ400 makes round 30 standard.



my standard DRZ enduro model (119kg) did 40hp on dyno...

And the BMW G450X makes 41HP IN MAP 1, and 52HP in race map, with performance silencer...
Chris


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 06, 2018, 09:38:05 am
A bit more proper info

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/

And yet - two weeks after the release - the official info is this: https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 (https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10)

Either Honda just doesn't really care about their PR, or that article is just wishfull thinking. The part about titanium tank being cheaper than plastic seems to indicate the later - but then, I'm not expert on materials...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Welsh on June 06, 2018, 11:08:32 am
A bit more proper info

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/

And yet - two weeks after the release - the official info is this: https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 (https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10)

Either Honda just doesn't really care about their PR, or that article is just wishfull thinking. The part about titanium tank being cheaper than plastic seems to indicate the later - but then, I'm not expert on materials...

I know materials, I cannot see a way a titanium tank can be cheaper, unless you have a lot of old stock left over.  :peepwall:

Oh, and I wouldn't want one, titanium is VERY corrosion and erosion resistant, BUT also very prone to cracking and hey this is a thumper, and you would need a purged welding chamber to do any repair, although it is weldable unlike the plastic tanks (under the right conditions).     O0
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Poffmuis on June 06, 2018, 11:13:39 am
450 bike will make 18kw;

 :pot:

(http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81924.0;attach=594669;image)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on June 06, 2018, 01:05:47 pm
So engine run different mapping and one more compression ring and maybe a bit more oil, but what have they done to the valves?
Apparentley not much, so the stainless conversion is till a must...?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 06, 2018, 01:16:07 pm
So engine run different mapping and one more compression ring and maybe a bit more oil, but what have they done to the valves?
Apparentley not much, so the stainless conversion is till a must...?

Well, they seem to have sticken with the Titanium valves in CRF, which according to fundis here and elsewhere is not a good thing and may have prevented CRF 450 not being used much for DS so far. I was wondering why KTM 500 is so popular and CRF and WR - which nominally should be more suited for extended maintenance use because of they being Japanese and such - are very rarely used for it. I assumed that it was the lack of 6th gear, but it seems Ti valves has something to do with it in the CRF case.

May I ask - why are the Ti valves a bad thing? I've read somewhere that my 500 also has Ti valves and so far in almost 10k km they needed adjustment once  at about 5k km - they were checked about three times in that period. So is the problem Ti valves or just their implementation in Honda? Or is my info on KTM 500 valves incorrect? This article stipulated that they use Ti valves on intake: https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/ktm/2012-ktm-500-exc-six-days-ar123877.html (https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/ktm/2012-ktm-500-exc-six-days-ar123877.html).

So where is the problem?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on June 06, 2018, 01:40:33 pm
The 2008 - 2009 CRFs had a poor quality coating on the intake valves.  This was rectified on the subsequent R models, but the X kept going with the problematic valves up to this year.  Intakes only, the exhausts were steel.  There were a number of remedies, including using the quads intakes, which were stainless, but you had to replace the keepers and springs as well.  If you wanted to go titanium again, Xceldynes were better. I've replaced a similar amount of KTM and Honda valves, but the Honda's are more expensive to do due to the additional hardware required.  My personal CRF450X has a full set of Kibblewhites.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 06, 2018, 01:47:55 pm
The 2008 - 2009 CRFs had a poor quality coating on the intake valves.  This was rectified on the subsequent R models, but the X kept going with the problematic valves up to this year.  Intakes only, the exhausts were steel.  There were a number of remedies, including using the quads intakes, which were stainless, but you had to replace the keepers and springs as well.  If you wanted to go titanium again, Xceldynes were better. I've replaced a similar amount of KTM and Honda valves, but the Honda's are more expensive to do due to the additional hardware required.  My personal CRF450X has a full set of Kibblewhites.

Thanks BTB  :thumleft:

One more idiot question - how does the problem manifest? They go out of spec way too quickly and need frequent adjustment or is it something more sinister (like bombing out the whole engine)? And if so - do KTMs have generally the same problem or not? Your comment about replaced KTM valves seems to indicate they may have similar weakpoint (leaving price of replacement aside - just in terms of maintenance intensity).
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on June 06, 2018, 02:06:55 pm
The coating on the Honda is in my opinion weaker.  The coating is there to protect the titanium as it becomes brittle and weaker if exposed to air in high temp environments.

The failure mode is the same for KTMs and Hondas: the valves tighten up and becomes difficult then impossible to start.  The cause is also likely similar:  dirt past the filter.  The KTM can just tolerate more.  What doesn't help is the ridiculously small space where the X's filter must go in, it is really easy to mess up the filter's alignment.  So, its like a double whammy.  Hopefully the new bikes will be better designed.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on June 07, 2018, 09:07:28 am
So it would seem Honda has admitted the previous info was a cut and paste stuffup from the 250.

Here is the real deal:
http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/

hp in the 40's and everything else much like the x.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 07, 2018, 06:42:35 pm
So it would seem Honda has admitted the previous info was a cut and paste stuffup from the 250.

Here is the real deal:
http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/

hp in the 40's and everything else much like the x.

I think that advpulse thang that is now doing the rounds is also hearsay and speculative wishful thinking. Someone at Honda told someone at Honda who told someone who is a moto journo and needs to write a piece who told us ....  ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 08, 2018, 08:27:17 am
I seem to remember someone saying this can only be fake news as its impossible Honda would launch a 450 with the same HP as there 250l which has 10K service intervals.
Boy did that guy get shot down by everyone. :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: immigrant on June 08, 2018, 03:56:12 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180608/d96171eda543f5b4ab401fe19cff66f2.jpg)

That's a lot of beaver skins for a plastic....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: J-dog on June 08, 2018, 04:18:31 pm
 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :laughing4:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 08, 2018, 04:38:10 pm
I seem to remember someone saying this can only be fake news as its impossible Honda would launch a 450 with the same HP as there 250l which has 10K service intervals.
Boy did that guy get shot down by everyone. :pot:

Good to see you feeling vindicated. By what though? Is there any new solid information apart from the official one released by Honda, the source of as you call it fake news?

It's strange how much you seem to focus on the Honda published power number, that almost 'everybody' agreed is irrelevant as the bike will come out horribly choked out to meet emissions/noise. And will be uncorked by everybody who will buy it first day to get it indeed most probably to those 40s.

HP is not this bike's problem, price is. Luckily the article you seem to hang your hat on has an explanation for that as well - as that mysterious Honda dude clarified, it is so cheap because it has titanium tank, which is cheaper than plastic one...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on June 08, 2018, 09:37:50 pm
Wow, 12k$.  That's seems a bit stiff but hey, I'm a bit out of touch with bike prices.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 09, 2018, 08:42:45 am
Good to see you feeling vindicated. By what though? Is there any new solid information apart from the official one released by Honda, the source of as you call it fake news?

It's strange how much you seem to focus on the Honda published power number, that almost 'everybody' agreed is irrelevant as the bike will come out horribly choked out to meet emissions/noise. And will be uncorked by everybody who will buy it first day to get it indeed most probably to those 40s.

HP is not this bike's problem, price is. Luckily the article you seem to hang your hat on has an explanation for that as well - as that mysterious Honda dude clarified, it is so cheap because it has titanium tank, which is cheaper than plastic one...


No you seem to be missing the point completely. I am extremely interested in this bike for myself. But as stated I am not interested in buying a high priced bike and then having to spend another 20K to uncork it ie Complete new exhaust system reset or buy new ECU that excludes Lambda sensor monitoring. However 120KGS odd at 40 something HP now looks a lot better easily cruise 130KPH and enough power to play. I am not interested in converting the bike to a 450x. A simple thumb suck calculation  for you. CRF250X= 35HP x 30% - = 25.5HP=CRF250Rally. CRF450X =60HPx30% -=42HP my approximate guess. Good enough for me straight out of the box and many others. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 09:04:26 am
@Bwana:
OK, if you are willing to pay R110 - 120k for that bike if it comes stock with 42hp, than that would work for you (the bike will be 131kg stock though as you don't want to modify). Many others - I wouldn't bet any money on that - the price is just way too much for those specs and 500 (or even CRF450X with full power out of the box) much more enticing choice. Regarding cruising at 130 - no it's not going to be good at that at all - with 25, 42 or 60 HP. Neither is 500. They could do it, but if that is the kind of riding you are looking at, just stick with AT.

But I actually would like to be pleasantly surprised on that one as I don't want this bike to be a flop that would scare away other manufacturers. But so far - at least in terms of marketing we have seen - Honda is doing their best to make it a failure...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 09, 2018, 09:12:31 am
I agree the Marketing has started poor but I was with Honda for many years there R&D is one of the biggest and best. I am sure when they Launch they have a market targeted wether its a mass market or small market we will have to wait and see. It could just be a brand ambassador. However with the longer 6 th gear 42HP will cruise at 130KPH. One thing we have to wait for is the ride reports before we pass to much comment. Further to that I am actually hoping that they develop a 450Rally from this bike.                 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 09:36:56 am
I'm not even going to comment on Honda R&D (a little taste: let's ditch AT and give the world Varadero and Crosstourer instead). But after 10k km on 500 in one year I can tell you with confidence that you will not want to cruise 130 km on this bike - 6th gear or 100 hp nothwithstanding.

The problem is weight - it is just too light for it and therefore will be all over the place, it's just physics. This bike should be used on double/single tracks with occassional connection on a dirt road or tar if not avoidable. In fact - and I know I'm going to get hammered for this but I dont' care- I would go as far as to say that this bike is completely unsuitable for Western Cape, which - with exception of dedicated riding areas like Atlantis, and possibly the West Coast sand (is that in WC though?) doesn't have any riding where this bike will really shine. WC is an adventure bike territory for pretty scenic riding, not DS place.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 09, 2018, 09:52:14 am
I disagree I live in knysna there are plenty tracks off the beaten track, there are also routes into Baviaans and Other places that you cannot do unless you have a lighter bike unless you are an expert I am a very light person so light suits me. As for the cruise point taken lets wait and see I think if they do bring out a rally they will have that covered.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 09, 2018, 10:09:53 am
Wow, 12k$.  That's seems a bit stiff but hey, I'm a bit out of touch with bike prices.

Canadian I think.
US price I saw was $10 999
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 09, 2018, 10:22:34 am
Xpat, I do not understand your reasoning around power/pricing?

A bike like Honda's 40HP 450 should theoretically, ok in practice we know it's going to outlast a husky or KTM by many years, last a lot longer than a 60HP 450.

Should the longer-lasting machine not be more justified in costing more than the "race" bike?

All the development has been done on modern engine/suspensions, it's just casting parts now, so the old "but development cost a lot of money" thing does not apply.

Then I am not even going into the benefits of touring without roadside oil changes. :xxbah:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on June 09, 2018, 10:47:38 am
Yawn....

Just why the 690 / 701 is the go to bike.

And no I don't believe the 790 is going to be the answer. No matter the hype if you look at the specs it will at at best a revamped 950se which didn't sell and only gained traction when it became a limited numbers anomaly . Like the HP2.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 10:54:38 am
Xpat, I do not understand your reasoning around power/pricing?

A bike like Honda's 40HP 450 should theoretically, ok in practice we know it's going to outlast a husky or KTM by many years, last a lot longer than a 60HP 450.

Should the longer-lasting machine not be more justified in costing more than the "race" bike?

All the development has been done on modern engine/suspensions, it's just casting parts now, so the old "but development cost a lot of money" thing does not apply.

Then I am not even going into the benefits of touring without roadside oil changes. :xxbah:

Is that why Honda specified 1000 km oil changes? Now, both you and I know that it can be easily stretched to lets say 2 - 3000 km without harm, heck with 40 HP even to 4-5000 km. But that is for people who are willing to push the limits and forfeit the warranty, not the practical Honda buyers, who want to be covered by warranty (pretty sure you will void one if you do not follow service intervals) and aren't willing to pay premium prices for their bikes.

If they would be offering this with the same suspension, 42 HP out of the box and 5000 km service interval, I could see the point of the price, but still think it would be too pricey for practical Honda buyers and too bland for people looking at 500.

But that is still completely missing the point. This is plated enduro bike (weight, suspension, based on racing engine), not an adventure bike. This is not - as far as I can see - bigger CRF250L. It is build for excitement which people are willing to pay more for, not practical value. If people who are looking at this bike think about kms and resale values, I believe they are looking at the wrong bike. To me it looks like a bike aimed people who look for maximum enjoyment in dirt with plate on it (tracks in Lesotho, Swaziland, Kaokoland, Botswana). And they are willing to pay premium for that. Practical people by definition are not.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 10:58:06 am
Yawn....

Just why the 690 / 701 is the go to bike.

And no I don't believe the 790 is going to be the answer. No matter the hype if you look at the specs it will at at best a revamped 950se which didn't sell and only gained traction when it became a limited numbers anomaly . Like the HP2.

I'm not good enough to do this on 690 (and as you know I have one): http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=217872.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=217872.0)

And I still haven't seen you do the same loop we did in Kaokoland in the same timeframe on 690. Try it and I think you might start to see the point of this type of bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 09, 2018, 11:02:10 am
So far we know we have been given wrong numbers on HP. This is a 3 ringed piston and carries a bit more oil. I will wait on service levels as the levels on the 250l are 10000kms.
Doing the 30% calculation I see no reason why this bike cannot be serviced every 5000KMS. I await an official test and launch.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on June 09, 2018, 11:04:08 am
Who in their right mind is going to pay R150k+ for a detuned 450 that will need another bucket of cash to be turned into an adventure ready bike? And then only for very focused adventure and often still need to be trailered to the destination .

Undeniably I think it will be a great weekend play bike but up against the 501 / 500exc most will stick with the Euro options.

I've just returned from 3 back to back Kaokoland tours on which we had a selection of bikes other than my 690 / 701 rental fleet.

The big KTM1090R's were a revaluation and handled all the river beds , van Zyls Pass without putting a foot down and even managed to get some decent air jumping off the lip on top of Dune 7 . They were two really good riders though !!!!
The KTM500EXC 's were not as bad as I thought on the long tar bit to Ruacan and handled 450km of tar at an easy 110kph.

But over all the 690/701 bikes were the obvious jack of all trades. Even riders unsure of themselves were carving up the thick red tweespoor whooped sandy tracks around Brandberg after 10 days on the bikes.

I've had numerous both Euro and local clients who've gone on to buy a 690/701 on arriving home after renting my bikes on the tours.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 11:10:48 am
So far we know we have been given wrong numbers on HP. This is a 3 ringed piston and carries a bit more oil. I will wait on service levels as the levels on the 250l are 10000kms.
Doing the 30% calculation I see no reason why this bike cannot be serviced every 5000KMS. I await an official test and launch.

Do we? Because a dude probably living in his mother's basement posted on internet?

You have Honda connection - why don't you tell them to fix their press release here (2 weeks after it was released), that way we will know even before the official launch: https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 (https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on June 09, 2018, 11:12:20 am
Yawn....

Just why the 690 / 701 is the go to bike.

And no I don't believe the 790 is going to be the answer. No matter the hype if you look at the specs it will at at best a revamped 950se which didn't sell and only gained traction when it became a limited numbers anomaly . Like the HP2.

I'm not good enough to do this on 690 (and as you know I have one): http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=217872.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=217872.0)

And I still haven't seen you do the same loop we did in Kaokoland in the same timeframe on 690. Try it and I think you might start to see the point of this type of bike.
[/quote
Gideon Joubert and myself did almost the same route as you in 2014 on loaded 690's as a recce for my tours in 5 days. And that was when the Kunene trail was still an entire day challenge.. The only bit we missed due to time was Khowarib Sluusch ( what you call small sarangeti). ]
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 09, 2018, 11:13:26 am
Xpat, I do not understand your reasoning around power/pricing?

A bike like Honda's 40HP 450 should theoretically, ok in practice we know it's going to outlast a husky or KTM by many years, last a lot longer than a 60HP 450.

Should the longer-lasting machine not be more justified in costing more than the "race" bike?

All the development has been done on modern engine/suspensions, it's just casting parts now, so the old "but development cost a lot of money" thing does not apply.

Then I am not even going into the benefits of touring without roadside oil changes. :xxbah:

Is that why Honda specified 1000 km oil changes? Now, both you and I know that it can be easily stretched to lets say 2 - 3000 km without harm, heck with 40 HP even to 4-5000 km. But that is for people who are willing to push the limits and forfeit the warranty, not the practical Honda buyers, who want to be covered by warranty (pretty sure you will void one if you do not follow service intervals) and aren't willing to pay premium prices for their bikes.

If they would be offering this with the same suspension, 42 HP out of the box and 5000 km service interval, I could see the point of the price, but still think it would be too pricey for practical Honda buyers and too bland for people looking at 500.

But that is still completely missing the point. This is plated enduro bike (weight, suspension, based on racing engine), not an adventure bike. This is not - as far as I can see - bigger CRF250L. It is build for excitement which people are willing to pay more for, not practical value. If people who are looking at this bike think about kms and resale values, I believe they are looking at the wrong bike. To me it looks like a bike aimed people who look for maximum enjoyment in dirt with plate on it (tracks in Lesotho, Swaziland, Kaokoland, Botswana). And they are willing to pay premium for that. Practical people by definition are not.

Like Wildwood and yourself say, this all point straight back at a bike of around 140kg kerb weight [dry] , around 650cc producing around 50HP with good suspension.

Like you also pointed out, and why I chose a 701 over my 1st choice WR450, too light is only good in the very rough. OK, admitted, then it is VERY good :thumleft:

Short service intervals is a pain, weak subframes even more so and anyway, a 100kg scalpel turns into a broodmes quickly when you have to carry for a long trip.

A 450 as D/S only woks in two scenarios, 1. om die kospotte, and 2. with back-up.

Back-up just push up your tripcost too much.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on June 09, 2018, 11:15:37 am
I'm probably a bit of a fan boy for the 690's.

It will take a lot on convincing or another better bike to change that but I believe it's the best all rounder I've ever ridden.

Maybe the 2019 690  😜
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 11:17:48 am
Yawn....

Just why the 690 / 701 is the go to bike.

And no I don't believe the 790 is going to be the answer. No matter the hype if you look at the specs it will at at best a revamped 950se which didn't sell and only gained traction when it became a limited numbers anomaly . Like the HP2.

I'm not good enough to do this on 690 (and as you know I have one): http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=217872.0 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=217872.0)

And I still haven't seen you do the same loop we did in Kaokoland in the same timeframe on 690. Try it and I think you might start to see the point of this type of bike.
[/quote
Gideon Joubert and myself did almost the same route as you in 2014 on loaded 690's as a recce for my tours in 5 days. And that was when the Kunene trail was still an entire day challenge.. The only bit we missed due to time was Khowarib Sluusch ( what you call small sarangeti). ]

In 5 days? From Uis back to Uis, including Valley of desolation on the way up and down and including Robbie's pass (yes, Kunene river track would be a bonus though)?

If so big hats off to you  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 09, 2018, 11:19:35 am
They state 3ringed piston and oil capacity with a lower compression ratio. Maybe thats also bull I dont know. I do not know the 501 but the 690 is 151 dry this would give it a kerb weight of approx 175-180kgs. We are talking about a bike with a kerb weight of only 131Kgs.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 09, 2018, 11:20:30 am
In fact, some of my one-day trips would fill a 450's service interval time. :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beesboer on June 09, 2018, 11:21:15 am
I cannot agree more re 690. I have just completed a 16,217 km trip doing the Wild Coast, EC, WC, West Coast and around Lesotho. I have done most of the gravel passes enroute. The only changes to the bike was a Seat Concept seat and when I got to CT I have had a long range tank fitted to give me a 350 - 400 km range. I have done some 500km per day trips, some fairly tech passes, lots of 1 and 2 spoor paths, gravel highways typical via the Tankwa, etc. I cannot think of a better suited bike for the variety of terrain I encountered. It is beyond me why the 690 is not a much more popular bike. It can cruise at 120km/h at 5,500rpm when required, get pretty technical in capable hands (not me), 10,000km interval services, etc. Not one single breakdown other than flat tyres due to the terrain I was travelling in. A truly competent week-end and long distance dual purpose bike. I would not take this trip with my 500 as it would have meant far more frequent service intervals and thus take away touring time. OK, now you can all shoot me down in flames but that was my experience!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 11:29:39 am
They state 3ringed piston and oil capacity with a lower compression ratio. Maybe thats also bull I dont know. I do not know the 501 but the 690 is 151 dry this would give it a kerb weight of approx 175-180kgs. We are talking about a bike with a kerb weight of only 131Kgs.

They do. And yet still state 1000 km oil change and for some reason 18.4kW power (which is not exaclty the same as 18.2 of 250 so whoever did the copy and paste error did change the number, plus the torque is different).

Look, I am going to be happy to be proven wrong on this one - I genuinely hope for some more competition in this market as I'm one of the relatively few people who really ride these kind of bike extensively. But the fact that Honda didn't bother to fix that release after three weeks and with all the shitstorm it caused on internet (just have a look on advrider - it is on page 80 or so) means that either their PR people are braindead, or - which is my guess - that they probably are going to release it like that and let people bring it to full power themselves.

If they are clever they may not make it as expensive as you worry. For example I have read somewhere that KTM EXC also comes with catalytic converter in pipe in US, but it is very simple to remove without need for new pipe or even gutting it. In SA they may even leave the ECU on full power, rather than use the locked one they use in US/Europe - that is exactly what KTM is doing here if my information is correct even on EXC versions. I don't know what throttle stop is, but I'm guessing some kind of mechanical device that probably even I can remove. Same for maze in airbox.

As I said, I will be glad to be proven wrong on this one, as if I'm not I think this bike will have it tough out there on the market. But I guess you are right - let's wait till launch and see.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 09, 2018, 11:45:24 am
I cannot agree more re 690. I have just completed a 16,217 km trip doing the Wild Coast, EC, WC, West Coast and around Lesotho. I have done most of the gravel passes enroute. The only changes to the bike was a Seat Concept seat and when I got to CT I have had a long range tank fitted to give me a 350 - 400 km range. I have done some 500km per day trips, some fairly tech passes, lots of 1 and 2 spoor paths, gravel highways typical via the Tankwa, etc. I cannot think of a better suited bike for the variety of terrain I encountered. It is beyond me why the 690 is not a much more popular bike. It can cruise at 120km/h at 5,500rpm when required, get pretty technical in capable hands (not me), 10,000km interval services, etc. Not one single breakdown other than flat tyres due to the terrain I was travelling in. A truly competent week-end and long distance dual purpose bike. I would not take this trip with my 500 as it would have meant far more frequent service intervals and thus take away touring time. OK, now you can all shoot me down in flames but that was my experience!

Yes, that is very good example of a route that most people consider adventure or even dual sport riding here. And indeed very good example of what 500 and this 450 (if I'm right and it is slightly detuned plated enduro) would be completely wrong for. The point I was making all along - this is not adventure bike by any stretch of imagination (again - if I understand it right, which I think I do).

If you count your trips in km - this is not bike for that at all. If you are after density and quality of experience rather than quantity, this bike may be. For example on that Lesotho trip I linked somewhere earlier I trailered bike down from Joburg and then back (let's say 800 km total - did some driving in Lesotho as well). All together I have probably done on that trip (2 weeks - the first part) 400 - 500 km on the bike max. But timewise - I spent 2 days in the car, and about 10 very high quality days on the bike (and no - I didn't have to change oil or service once). 100 km in Lesotho if done right can take you 2 - 3 days.

On the other hand, with 690 - which I have and agree is probably the best long distance DS cruiser out there - I would have been done with Lesotho probably within 3 - 4 days. As it would limit me to the main tar and dirt roads and wouldn't allow to plot a completely new route across the mountains from let's say Katse to Mohale dam, as I did on 500 (which took me 3 days).

Edit: Just to illustrate the km vs quality time point more - I have been riding over the last year 500 almost exclusively. Have done 3 trips in Lesotho (each between 10 - 14 days), a trip through Okavango delta (about 3000km), trip through Kaokoland (about 2000km0 and number of small dashes  through DeWildt. And all together I have done so far 9.5k km. And I'm basically riding full time right now. I can assure you that those 9.5k km on 500 (if ridden in the right territory) are very different to the 16k km you've done through SA. Nothing against it - I've done it before - but you just cannot compare the two in terms of fatiguge and intensity of experience.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 09, 2018, 11:58:13 am
Noted. However if they do bring a Rally the weight and specs would probably change. IE weight up by 10KGS and possibly detuned a bit more. That would interest me.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 09, 2018, 11:18:19 pm
I cannot agree more re 690. I have just completed a 16,217 km trip doing the Wild Coast, EC, WC, West Coast and around Lesotho. I have done most of the gravel passes enroute. The only changes to the bike was a Seat Concept seat and when I got to CT I have had a long range tank fitted to give me a 350 - 400 km range. I have done some 500km per day trips, some fairly tech passes, lots of 1 and 2 spoor paths, gravel highways typical via the Tankwa, etc. I cannot think of a better suited bike for the variety of terrain I encountered. It is beyond me why the 690 is not a much more popular bike. It can cruise at 120km/h at 5,500rpm when required, get pretty technical in capable hands (not me), 10,000km interval services, etc. Not one single breakdown other than flat tyres due to the terrain I was travelling in. A truly competent week-end and long distance dual purpose bike. I would not take this trip with my 500 as it would have meant far more frequent service intervals and thus take away touring time. OK, now you can all shoot me down in flames but that was my experience!

Yes, that is very good example of a route that most people consider adventure or even dual sport riding here. And indeed very good example of what 500 and this 450 (if I'm right and it is slightly detuned plated enduro) would be completely wrong for. The point I was making all along - this is not adventure bike by any stretch of imagination (again - if I understand it right, which I think I do).

If you count your trips in km - this is not bike for that at all. If you are after density and quality of experience rather than quantity, this bike may be. For example on that Lesotho trip I linked somewhere earlier I trailered bike down from Joburg and then back (let's say 800 km total - did some driving in Lesotho as well). All together I have probably done on that trip (2 weeks - the first part) 400 - 500 km on the bike max. But timewise - I spent 2 days in the car, and about 10 very high quality days on the bike (and no - I didn't have to change oil or service once). 100 km in Lesotho if done right can take you 2 - 3 days.

On the other hand, with 690 - which I have and agree is probably the best long distance DS cruiser out there - I would have been done with Lesotho probably within 3 - 4 days. As it would limit me to the main tar and dirt roads and wouldn't allow to plot a completely new route across the mountains from let's say Katse to Mohale dam, as I did on 500 (which took me 3 days).

Edit: Just to illustrate the km vs quality time point more - I have been riding over the last year 500 almost exclusively. Have done 3 trips in Lesotho (each between 10 - 14 days), a trip through Okavango delta (about 3000km), trip through Kaokoland (about 2000km0 and number of small dashes  through DeWildt. And all together I have done so far 9.5k km. And I'm basically riding full time right now. I can assure you that those 9.5k km on 500 (if ridden in the right territory) are very different to the 16k km you've done through SA. Nothing against it - I've done it before - but you just cannot compare the two in terms of fatiguge and intensity of experience.

Sure, a trailered trip to Lesotho could be easier to do on a 500 than on a 690, but then would the 350 not work even better, or even a 250X?

Trailering is often a nuisance though, and then the 690/701 is just so much nicer. Climb on in Stellenbosch, do your entire trip and dismount in Stellenbosch.

A 500/501 is a mere 50 cc;s of 4stroke power more than what we have had for years, namely the 450's. Close to the same thing, and some are trying to make out like the 500's are superbikes. ;)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on June 10, 2018, 06:22:03 am
"Julle mense wat dink julle weet alles ...................................
Maak ons mense wat alles weet die bliksem in!!!"

This is what this thread is now reminding me of.  :lol8:

IMHO there is a lot of unfair comparison in the debate.  If other social media platforms is thrown into the debate, the only common gripe is price.  The US and European guys seem to be all making plans to get the bike as soon as it's available.  (I must however admit that it's said by owners who currently have some form of Honda in the stable)  I think it's been said somewhere in the thread, but SA is unfortunately negligible in Honda's marketing strategy, so very few new bikes will probably meet our expectation.

When they brought out the 250 Rally, there was similar debate, again the majority being able to justify the price tag.  Oh, and the ridiculous weight vs power.  Yet some guys went on to buy them and are happy with it, even at the perceived high price tag.  What everyone was looking forward to, was to have that bike in 450 trim.  Now we get it, it comes at a premium cost, and we battle to see any good in it.  I'm however of the opinion that this is not the bigger brother of the 250L or 250Rally.  I think this is something that the US wanted/needed.  It makes zero sense to have these short service intervals on the 250 'upgrade'.  I think the one we're longing for is still on its way, and yes, it will be as or even more expensive.

I'm dumbfounded by the comparison of Wildwood to the 690/701?  :eek7:  Why not compare the 690 rather with the XR650R if anything, albeit no longer available?  (Hell, even compare it with it's predecessor 640 and I'll still take that over the 690)  The KTM500 is pretty much a race ready machine and ideal platform as rally base if we still had the Amageza running, but so is the 450 XC-W.  To proclaim that as the ultimate D/S bike and the current hype around it is beyond me.  Honda does not claim the 450L to be a ready to race machine, they simply stated that they use the same frame and engine, but detune it to bring a plated 'enduro' version to a market that obviously has the need for it.

I'm pretty sure there will be a couple sold in SA, but like the 250 Rally, not in large quantities.  Will I buy one, no, I'll wait for the one that I think is still coming.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: dirt rat on June 10, 2018, 06:23:09 am
I get both sides of the discussion- Xpat is right from his side and Wildwood and 2SD are also right from their's.
The difference seems to me that Xpat is really talking about enduro riding (some of it extreme) and the others are talking adventure riding with some technical challenges.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 10, 2018, 10:07:50 am

Sure, a trailered trip to Lesotho could be easier to do on a 500 than on a 690, but then would the 350 not work even better, or even a 250X?

Trailering is often a nuisance though, and then the 690/701 is just so much nicer. Climb on in Stellenbosch, do your entire trip and dismount in Stellenbosch.

A 500/501 is a mere 50 cc;s of 4stroke power more than what we have had for years, namely the 450's. Close to the same thing, and some are trying to make out like the 500's are superbikes. ;)

???

I thought this was 450L thread. A 450 that clearly aims at the plated enduro category now dominated by KTM 500 even in US (especially in US) where KTM traditionally is not very popular and Honda on the other hand has broad and loyal following. So it seems pretty logical to compare the two in this quite frankly speculation thread. 50 cc is irrelevant - 500 is KTM's offering in this DS category and no - it's not race ready - that is what their 450XCW which is much more aggressive. 500 is exactly build for dual sporting, not racing (which category can 500cc compete officially in? I'm pretty sure they are very few if any)- much more friendly with loads of torque that make it much more manageable and therefore logically longer service intervals (informal).

How does the 690/701 fit into this? Are you saying we should be comparing 450L to 690? And if so - why?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on June 10, 2018, 10:26:51 am
A 500/501 is a mere 50 cc;s of 4stroke power more than what we have had for years, namely the 450's. Close to the same thing, and some are trying to make out like the 500's are superbikes. ;)

Are you comparing the additional 50cc between the two out of a power viewpoint?  I think there is more around the 500 status than just a bigger engine.
I don't know the two bikes but I understand the 500 has longer legs than the 450. Do both have six gears?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on June 10, 2018, 10:40:36 am
Is that why Honda specified 1000 km oil changes? Now, both you and I know that it can be easily stretched to lets say 2 - 3000 km without harm,

Where did you get the 1000km from?  From the advpulse article or is it also stated somewhere else?  http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/

5. It Still Has Dirt Bike Maintenance Intervals
While being based on the motocross bike is a huge plus for performance, what does it mean for maintenance? We asked Honda and they said that the CRF450L has an oil change interval of 600 miles and a valve check interval of 1,800 miles. While that seems short when viewed as a street bike, when thinking about trail bikes or dirt-bike-based dual-sports, thatís changing the oil after six 100-mile rides, which is well within reason. Plus, OEM recommendations are notoriously conservative. If you plan on cruising down dirt roads at a quarter throttle, you arenít stressing the engine like blasting single track at race pace.


Some views:

They say 600miles vs dirt bike 100miles. Thus six times longer intervals.

Most dirt bikes I know of have oil changes every 10hours. For my current bike that is every 300km. What is yours?
If they said every 60hours it would be close to 2,000km intervals.

If it takes 1l of oil and you service say every 2500k then the oils for servicing cost the same as for a the 7500km 3l service interval of a KTM 990.
You just have to do it three times more.

Bottom line for me is it all points to a service interval somewhere inbetween that of a dirt bike and an enduro bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on June 10, 2018, 10:45:09 am
If you use the bike for fun and not commuting then servicing of a bike like this this is a moot point for me in any case as it is so easy to do and so little you have to do.

Life of the engine is probably more important but again if it is used as a trail bike the engine will last many years.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 10, 2018, 10:47:47 am
Is that why Honda specified 1000 km oil changes? Now, both you and I know that it can be easily stretched to lets say 2 - 3000 km without harm,

Where did you get the 1000km from?  From the advpulse article or is it also stated somewhere else?  http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/

5. It Still Has Dirt Bike Maintenance Intervals
While being based on the motocross bike is a huge plus for performance, what does it mean for maintenance? We asked Honda and they said that the CRF450L has an oil change interval of 600 miles and a valve check interval of 1,800 miles. While that seems short when viewed as a street bike, when thinking about trail bikes or dirt-bike-based dual-sports, thatís changing the oil after six 100-mile rides, which is well within reason. Plus, OEM recommendations are notoriously conservative. If you plan on cruising down dirt roads at a quarter throttle, you arenít stressing the engine like blasting single track at race pace.


Some views:

They say 600miles vs dirt bike 100miles. Thus six times longer intervals.

Most dirt bikes I know of have oil changes every 10hours. For my current bike that is every 300km. What is yours?
If they said every 60hours it would be close to 2,000km intervals.

If it takes 1l of oil and you service say every 2500k then the oils for servicing cost the same as for a the 7500km 3l service interval of a KTM 990.
You just have to do it three times more.

Bottom line for me is it all points to a service interval somewhere inbetween that of a dirt bike and an enduro bike.

In the officialy Honda press release (the same as Hardy posted here some time ago):  https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10 (https://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/131076/2019-crf450l10)

My KTM 500 has (I think - don't care as I don't follow it) recommended oil change every 15 hours. In the open desert in Botswana or Namibia at average speed 60 kmh (easy doable) that means every 900 km - or more or less the same as this Honda. But as I said, I change it after every big trip, which so far varied from few 100 km in Lesotho to 2000 km in Kaokoland. And I'm pretty sure it would do 3000 without worry. And so will this Honda.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 10, 2018, 10:58:11 am

Sure, a trailered trip to Lesotho could be easier to do on a 500 than on a 690, but then would the 350 not work even better, or even a 250X?

Trailering is often a nuisance though, and then the 690/701 is just so much nicer. Climb on in Stellenbosch, do your entire trip and dismount in Stellenbosch.

A 500/501 is a mere 50 cc;s of 4stroke power more than what we have had for years, namely the 450's. Close to the same thing, and some are trying to make out like the 500's are superbikes. ;)

???

I thought this was 450L thread. A 450 that clearly aims at the plated enduro category now dominated by KTM 500 even in US (especially in US) where KTM traditionally is not very popular and Honda on the other hand has broad and loyal following. So it seems pretty logical to compare the two in this quite frankly speculation thread. 50 cc is irrelevant - 500 is KTM's offering in this DS category and no - it's not race ready - that is what their 450XCW which is much more aggressive. 500 is exactly build for dual sporting, not racing (which category can 500cc compete officially in? I'm pretty sure they are very few if any)- much more friendly with loads of torque that make it much more manageable and therefore logically longer service intervals (informal).

How does the 690/701 fit into this? Are you saying we should be comparing 450L to 690? And if so - why?


It is the 450L thread, so why keep dragging your 500 in? :imaposer:

Xpat, as far as I remember the offroad rules state that for a machine to compete in the OPEN class, it needs to be bigger that a 2stroke 201cc, or a 4stroke 251cc. I cannot remember any caps on size, or even cylinders?

 Gideon Joubert, or "GJ" on this forum, competed in the BAJA's and most of the Amageza's on his 690, and it dusted 450/500/501's, over flattish terrain, but also over very technical areas.

Which brings us back to a very important, and uncontrollable variable, namely rider talent/expertise, etc.

Some riders will be quicker on a XT250 over some terrain than another oke on his racing 450.

So I reluctantly agrees with the statement that each of us can only really have a bike-type for terrain opinion applicable to HIM/HERSELF.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SchalkL on June 10, 2018, 11:02:56 am
Just for the record:
Myself and surely lots of others (6400+ views) are following every word in this thread, please keep on posting, i am already a lot clearer in my mind regarding going 450/500/690 than a few days ago.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 10, 2018, 11:06:40 am
A 500/501 is a mere 50 cc;s of 4stroke power more than what we have had for years, namely the 450's. Close to the same thing, and some are trying to make out like the 500's are superbikes. ;)

Are you comparing the additional 50cc between the two out of a power viewpoint?  I think there is more around the 500 status than just a bigger engine.
I don't know the two bikes but I understand the 500 has longer legs than the 450. Do both have six gears?

Both 6-speed, and in turn there is more to the 690/701 status than the 500's.

The 500's still have small tanks, competition seats, 960mm seat height and get buffeted by wind like crazy.

The WR Yamahas have formed a perfect platform for Xpat's type of D/S bordering on enduro type riding for years, why is the 500 class bike only now being punted?

Advertising. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 10, 2018, 11:29:55 am
A 500/501 is a mere 50 cc;s of 4stroke power more than what we have had for years, namely the 450's. Close to the same thing, and some are trying to make out like the 500's are superbikes. ;)

Are you comparing the additional 50cc between the two out of a power viewpoint?  I think there is more around the 500 status than just a bigger engine.
I don't know the two bikes but I understand the 500 has longer legs than the 450. Do both have six gears?

Both 6-speed, and in turn there is more to the 690/701 status than the 500's.

The 500's still have small tanks, competition seats, 960mm seat height and get buffeted by wind like crazy.

The WR Yamahas have formed a perfect platform for Xpat's type of D/S bordering on enduro type riding for years, why is the 500 class bike only now being punted?

Advertising. :thumleft:

 :laughing4: Busted.

I'll let you run with this now with WR450 - the bike even you didn't buy  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 10, 2018, 01:18:15 pm
A 500/501 is a mere 50 cc;s of 4stroke power more than what we have had for years, namely the 450's. Close to the same thing, and some are trying to make out like the 500's are superbikes. ;)

Are you comparing the additional 50cc between the two out of a power viewpoint?  I think there is more around the 500 status than just a bigger engine.
I don't know the two bikes but I understand the 500 has longer legs than the 450. Do both have six gears?

Both 6-speed, and in turn there is more to the 690/701 status than the 500's.

The 500's still have small tanks, competition seats, 960mm seat height and get buffeted by wind like crazy.

The WR Yamahas have formed a perfect platform for Xpat's type of D/S bordering on enduro type riding for years, why is the 500 class bike only now being punted?

Advertising. :thumleft:

 :laughing4: Busted.

I'll let you run with this now with WR450 - the bike even you didn't buy  :imaposer:

It was really close, the WR being perfect, well almost as a 300 2stroke would be even better in Lesotho on supported trips, for these "exploratory" trips, but I am not a car guy and like to get to destinations on my bike.

And the 701 is just so much better than a 450/500 for covering distance, for service interval longevity, and more relaxed touring.

But I get the feeling that I want to now force down my choice on you. :thumleft:

Not the idea.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: J-dog on June 10, 2018, 02:38:01 pm
If one is looking for a light weight DP thumper, why does one even gaze further than the 690? At $12k the pap Honda is a non-starter. Period. Close the thread.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 10, 2018, 02:39:23 pm
If one is looking for a light weight DP thumper, why does one even gaze further than the 690? At $12k the pap Honda is a non-starter. Period. Close the thread.

 :eek7: :eek7: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on June 10, 2018, 04:49:08 pm
BECAUSE I DONT AND NEVER WOULD SPEND MY HARD EARNED MONEY ON A KTM.......!!!!!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SchalkL on June 10, 2018, 05:16:05 pm
If one is looking for a light weight DP thumper, why does one even gaze further than the 690? At $12k the pap Honda is a non-starter. Period. Close the thread.
Presumptuous of someone who as far a i can see don't even ride a bike  :eek7:
I suggest you spend your time in the R&P section where you might have a better audience, rather leave the bike talk to the big boys.

I personally value and respect the view of all the above experienced riders thats been around the block.

[Oh, and you dont have to SHOUT to grab attention - just talk sense]

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Operator on June 10, 2018, 05:48:25 pm
Schalk is that you, or your inner (with eyepatches) Honda fanboy speaking?  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Your personal attack on James does not take away from the facts of what he said  ;)


 :sip:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SchalkL on June 10, 2018, 05:53:56 pm
Schalk is that you, or your inner (with eyepatches) Honda fanboy speaking?  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Your personal attack on James does not take away from the facts of what he said  ;)

 :sip:
Ja ja, except the most fun bike i ever had was a 990  :lol8:
BUT i do trust Honda more than KTM

I suppose i just don't like being shout at  when trying to listen to riders that been there and done that........
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Operator on June 10, 2018, 06:10:58 pm
Maybe he has been there and done that  :P

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on June 10, 2018, 06:13:18 pm
I think nuance and satire are mostly lost on Wilddogs.

The term 'te gou op jou perdtjie' comes to mind. Schalk I think J-dog was making light of the conversation.

I'm often amazed how when guys disagree the tone gets pretty heated.

Chill guys and accept we're all right / or wrong all of the time. Let's face it, the Honda is kak  :)

Makes a nice change from the old BMW/KTM chestnut. A whole new group to hate and maybe ban from the site. (Watch out 2stroke)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Operator on June 10, 2018, 06:19:35 pm
The Honda disciples talked up the CRF 250 Rally just as much.......

and then only limited numbers were sold. Fact.

Whatever the real life specs are, the market(sales) will determine if this bike is really so nice and successful
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on June 10, 2018, 06:39:56 pm
I think I get the new Honda. Should be a cool weekend play bike but I donít see it a viable tourer.

On a different note I believe ( unconfirmed) that the 450exc KTM has taller gearing than the 500exc. Makes no sense why theyíd do that but apparently true, making the 450 a better bike to adapt for adventure.

Anybody able to confirm either way. A chap I met on trails tells me he had both the 450 and a 501 Husky and subsequently sold the  Husky and kept the 450 because of the longer range gearbox. ???
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 10, 2018, 07:54:10 pm
The Honda disciples talked up the CRF 250 Rally just as much.......

and then only limited numbers were sold. Fact.

Whatever the real life specs are, the market(sales) will determine if this bike is really so nice and successful

The really fine things in life only comes in limited numbers.

That's why there's a Motorrad around every corner, like cheap wine and past-sell-by date veggies.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on June 11, 2018, 07:45:40 am
Schalk is that you, or your inner (with eyepatches) Honda fanboy speaking?  :lol8: :lol8: :lol8:

Your personal attack on James does not take away from the facts of what he said  ;)

 :sip:
Ja ja, except the most fun bike i ever had was a 990  :lol8:
BUT i do trust Honda more than KTM

I suppose i just don't like being shout at  when trying to listen to riders that been there and done that........

Well no one here has ridden the 450 yet so all everyone is talking about is from press releases , from what I can see I would go for the 450X but then again I prefer to trailer to a riding area , the target market that I see for this market are the guys that will ride down to the quarry or hills , do some riding and ride back home again .
I don't see it as ever having been marketed as a touring bike that some are wanting to use it for , I am certain Honda have something else up their sleeves like a 450 Rally for that market sector .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 11, 2018, 09:31:08 am
Were the KTM 690s falls woefully short is on weight. It cannot be called a lightweight bike at 175Kgs plus Kerb weight. The KTM is an adventure bike. i think Honda are trying to get a trails semi adventure multi- purpose bike. Remember power is also directly related to weight. On a tight rough track I see this bike killing a KTM 690 which is what the bike is built for the way I see it.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on June 11, 2018, 10:05:13 am
Were the KTM 690s falls woefully short is on weight. It cannot be called a lightweight bike at 175Kgs plus Kerb weight. The KTM is an adventure bike. i think Honda are trying to get a trails semi adventure multi- purpose bike. Remember power is also directly related to weight. On a tight rough track I see this bike killing a KTM 690 which is what the bike is built for the way I see it.

KTM 690 is 147kg dry , so about 160kg fully fuelled , I would not classify it as an adventure bike though , to me it is a dual purpose bike in the same league as the DR650 , XR650L but one that is on diet and on steroids , think of it as a modern KTM version of a roadworthied XR650R . Do yourself a favour and ride a 690 , you will be blown away at what a good bike it is , not perfect for everyone but a really good bike .

Than again , define adventure bike , in my mind it is a bike with a largish fuel tank , possibly a fairing for wind protection and a comfortable seat , the KTM 640 Adv was a very good example , the KLR650 also in there but a bit porky , the 660 Tenere as well but also heavy , the 690 , 701 , DR and XRL all have the capability of being adventure bikes but realistically need a few modifications which will vary from bike to bike .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beesboer on June 11, 2018, 10:30:30 am
Bwana and others not having the facts correct. The 2018 KTM 690 R Enduro provides 49Kw power with a dry weight of 140kg. Wet, with full tank of 12 liters and oil, less than 155kg. Only about 25 - 30kg more than a typical 500 / 450 dry weight. As mentioned before it is not a hardcore enduro machine but never intended to. It is, however, my understanding of what most adventure riders want in a light weight DS machine. It can deal with single track, dirt highways and tarmac pretty well. On my long trip it was weighted down with 42kg of luggage including tent, my porky 98kg and never complained. Compare this with all  advertised adventure bikes from KTM/BMW/Triumph/Suzuki/Honda and my wet weight with luggage is still less than 200kg. Again, I am dumbstruck as to why this bike does not have a huge following. My thinking, most want the agility of a 250, the comfort of a 1200 and the power of a 1290..... That aint ever gonna happen! Not with Honda or any other manufacturer
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: J-dog on June 11, 2018, 10:38:26 am
I have raced a friendly enduro on a 690 and competed quite well. I have also done 550km in a day on the same bike on dirt and tar.

I think that says it all.

@SchalkL ....

Over 40 years of riding dirt bikes, I think I have mostly been there and done that.  :)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on June 11, 2018, 01:15:18 pm
Bwana and others not having the facts correct. The 2018 KTM 690 R Enduro provides 49Kw power with a dry weight of 140kg. Wet, with full tank of 12 liters and oil, less than 155kg. Only about 25 - 30kg more than a typical 500 / 450 dry weight. As mentioned before it is not a hardcore enduro machine but never intended to. It is, however, my understanding of what most adventure riders want in a light weight DS machine. It can deal with single track, dirt highways and tarmac pretty well. On my long trip it was weighted down with 42kg of luggage including tent, my porky 98kg and never complained. Compare this with all  advertised adventure bikes from KTM/BMW/Triumph/Suzuki/Honda and my wet weight with luggage is still less than 200kg. Again, I am dumbstruck as to why this bike does not have a huge following. My thinking, most want the agility of a 250, the comfort of a 1200 and the power of a 1290..... That aint ever gonna happen! Not with Honda or any other manufacturer

Have you had a 690 on scales?  I have.  It was a fair bit more than 155.  More than 165.  Even more than 175.   :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: J-dog on June 11, 2018, 01:21:03 pm
Ag fuck man. The 690 is 160kg WET. I rode them for years. And raced against 300's on one of them. No problem. Anyway whatever.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: J-dog on June 11, 2018, 01:22:32 pm
sorry, bit manic right now.  >:(
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beesboer on June 11, 2018, 01:31:04 pm
I shared my experience for those who are seriously looking at a DS bike. Please check real weight and power from manufacturer or dealer. Don't believe me. The power to weight ratio for this bike makes for a very lively, depending on what power setting, DS bike. The long service interval is a further bonus. It is currently selling for about R130k. Go and get a test ride!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on June 11, 2018, 02:10:50 pm
I shared my experience for those who are seriously looking at a DS bike.

If you are in this thread seriously looking for a DS bike you are in the wrong thread.
The 450L would be far closer to a plated enduro bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beesboer on June 11, 2018, 02:39:11 pm
Fully agrees. I chipped in when earlier in the thread the 450 / 500 was positioned as the next DS.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 11, 2018, 05:40:36 pm
If Honda information is correct (http://hondanews.com/channels/crf450x/releases/2019-honda-crf450x-features-benefits (http://hondanews.com/channels/crf450x/releases/2019-honda-crf450x-features-benefits)) and assuming one will be able to plate 450X in SA, that is clearly the bike to go for instead of L for anybody considering this kind of Honda. For the following reasons

From durability perspective, both seem to have the same mods:
- Both have 6 gears
- Both have 3 rings on the piston
- Both have lowered compression ratio from 13 to 12:1.
- Both have heavier flywheel for better low rev traction

From the enjoyment perspective:
- X will have a full power and will not need to be uncorked at cost. They don't specify what that power is, but one can guess somewhere around high 40 to 50s (as it is detuned R because of the changes listed above, but doesn't need to comply with emissions and noice regs like L).
- X is about 6 - 7 kg lighter kerb weight (275lb - cca 125 kg wet)
- X is 600 USD cheaper than L in US (not sure how that would translate here). There will be additional cost associated with roadworthy kit, but that would be probably more than offset by cost of uncorking L.

So if the Honda info is correct and one can plate X, it seem pretty much no brainer to me...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: kfc4unme on June 11, 2018, 08:26:55 pm
Hope I am not reposting...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180611/c64e0123d4d5d817088c544b883094a4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180611/546b861a47d7b07d03b30a04f76f0b29.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180611/7ec35e087e92c430ec557657b3939091.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on June 11, 2018, 09:03:28 pm
Urethane injection in swingarm to reduce roadnoise??
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on June 12, 2018, 08:48:09 am
Xpat, the CRF450x is not available in SA anymore......
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on June 12, 2018, 08:55:11 am
Xpat, the CRF450x is not available in SA anymore......

What you mean? That the old one is sold out, or that the new 2019 one will never be imported? And if so - why not?

If true, sounds like Honda is really working hard to not sell any bikes...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on June 12, 2018, 10:35:06 am
Xpat, the CRF450x is not available in SA anymore......

That is the old model
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on June 12, 2018, 05:51:22 pm
They replaced it with th RX.
Guess they dont see the need in supplying a small market with to many a model...?

Really wouldnt know the reason, but that is how it currently stands.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on June 12, 2018, 07:06:33 pm
The X and RX are very different bikes , the RX is basically made for the American GNCC series whereas the X is more enduro orientated
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on June 12, 2018, 09:05:56 pm
Ag fuck man. The 690 is 160kg WET. I rode them for years. And raced against 300's on one of them. No problem. Anyway whatever.

Stop shouting.  You can race a 300 with a 1200GS.  If its an enduro you'll loose, if its a top-end drag, you might win.  You make a stupid point. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on June 13, 2018, 08:03:41 am
Why do KTM riders have to shout. Are they threatened or something. :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 13, 2018, 08:21:56 am
Why do KTM riders have to shout. Are they threatened or something. :pot:

Loud pipes save lives .... and damage hearing  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on June 13, 2018, 10:05:37 am
They may think they are racing 300's and doing well, we don't want to break their spirits.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sparro on June 14, 2018, 07:08:13 pm
Poor manufacturers just dont seem to be able to appease modern consumers.  How long have we all said why doesnt stupid Mr Honda just build the L or the Rally in a 450 and we'll sell a kidney to buy one.  Honda goes ahead and builds it and then the consumer finds a thousand and one reasons why its a kak idea and there are so many other bikes that does the same job better.

If they bring out the Rally in a 450, and they will... I'm on like a scone, and wifey can have my low mileage 250 Rally.
But then again the new 790 Adventure will mos do the same job better wont it?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 14, 2018, 07:24:35 pm
Poor manufacturers just dont seem to be able to appease modern consumers.  How long have we all said why doesnt stupid Mr Honda just build the L or the Rally in a 450 and we'll sell a kidney to buy one.  Honda goes ahead and builds it and then the consumer finds a thousand and one reasons why its a kak idea and there are so many other bikes that does the same job better.

If they bring out the Rally in a 450, and they will... I'm on like a scone, and wifey can have my low mileage 250 Rally.
But then again the new 790 Adventure will mos do the same job better wont it?

No china, Mr Honda did not go and build it - they took a long existing MX bike, gave it a smack and tickle and repackaged it with a some bullshit baffles brains hype. The Americans love a face lift and boob-job so will sell there. Not so sure here in Azania  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on June 14, 2018, 11:00:26 pm
Honda doesn't have to try and reinvent the wheel with kak design ideas, all for the sake of being different.
The world learned that from the failed G450X experiment.

The CRF platform is as close to perfection as you can get. The undisputed king of the desert needed a 6th gear.

They gave it one.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 14, 2018, 11:11:58 pm
Honda doesn't have to try and reinvent the wheel with kak design ideas, all for the sake of being different.
The world learned that from the failed G450X experiment.

The CRF platform is as close to perfection as you can get. The undisputed king of the desert needed a 6th gear.

They gave it one.

I won't take the poisoned sheep in a wolfs clothing bait.  :lol8:

You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear, especially an old tired sow.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on June 15, 2018, 07:42:29 am
Reading this thread is like watching nascar.

Iím a big CRF450 fan. I am looking forward to riding this bike. A lot of the interested parties on this thread are looking for something this bike is not. If you want a capable in betweener, the 690 and 701 is the only bike to buy. If you want a plated enduro for technical DS riding, this bike is an option. But then so is any plated dirt bike. If you are a honda fan boy and anti ktm but looking for something like a 690, this bike isnít it Iím afraid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Cracker on June 15, 2018, 07:54:03 am
You're a what? ......  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 15, 2018, 08:41:04 am
You're a what? ......  :biggrin:

A "big" Honda fanboy too  :imaposer: 

Do we have a WD Confessions thread to move this post to?  :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on June 15, 2018, 09:12:18 am
You're a what? ......  :biggrin:

 :spitcoffee:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on June 15, 2018, 08:36:35 pm
Reading this thread is like watching nascar.

Iím a big CRF450 fan. I am looking forward to riding this bike. A lot of the interested parties on this thread are looking for something this bike is not. If you want a capable in betweener, the 690 and 701 is the only bike to buy. If you want a plated enduro for technical DS riding, this bike is an option. But then so is any plated dirt bike. If you are a honda fan boy and anti ktm but looking for something like a 690, this bike isnít it Iím afraid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aint that the truth.
The japs can built a road legal adv bike that will outlive a owner, but it is as boring as hell at the same time.
So. The 690 and 701 is stuck with high performance vs reliability issues?
Or is it subject to typical nancy boys thats afraid of getting hands dirty and trying utmost to break something that have a reliability question mark?
I feel sorry for loudmouths travelling a lifetime around this globe, having never indulged in a brand that makes you feel like a kid.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on June 15, 2018, 09:27:41 pm
I honestly don't know where the 690/701 reliability issues come in. The early 2007-2011 had some issues that have long since been sorted. And from 2014 the engines are bullet proof.
It is also often the 690's that getting hammered harder by their owners than other brands.
We're a bunch of guys that ride our bikes fairly hard and have no issues with reliability. Other than the odd fuel pump which I put down to buying shitty fuel in cans in the bush.
I've done 50000km on a 690 with zero issues. I've owned 5 models that I've ridden myself and we have a rental fleet of 6 that get ridden by mostly palookas.

I did own a 660 Yammie that started unraveling at 20000.

I have a feeling most guys are comparing with old school low stressed 1980's model Honda XR500's.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on June 15, 2018, 10:22:52 pm
I am glad that Honda is entering the 'plated' enduro (ds  ???  ::) ) market and I hope more brands will follow in the 450-500cc class. A little competition and more choice is and was never a bad thing. That being said, I cannot help but to agree with the post above: The KTM reliability kak is a real 'ou tannie -holrug' story. Most who complain about KTM never owned one.
If you never had a redhead girl you won't get it  :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on June 16, 2018, 08:48:54 pm
I have ridden many bikes of all makes and none ever left me by the side of the road / trail. If you maintain your bikes or have a little mechanical know how that will be good enough.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on June 27, 2018, 12:46:18 pm
Few close ups from ADVrider
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Vulcan on June 27, 2018, 01:11:18 pm
That looks like a $10000 price-tag...which will put it at over R130 000...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on June 27, 2018, 01:12:31 pm
Few close ups from ADVrider

Nice! I just hope its a little bit less brutal/aggressive than the ktm450! Looking forward to see it here..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 27, 2018, 02:13:49 pm
That looks like a $10000 price-tag...which will put it at over R130 000...

Originally I heard $10 399 - the sticker here indicates $10 700 or thereabouts with a "Destination Charge" so yeah.
Somehow doubt it will even get here.  ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 27, 2018, 04:04:27 pm
BTW - all KTM 250, 350 and 500 4T's are road legal and platable now in USA. EXC's should be same here.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on June 27, 2018, 08:46:22 pm
BTW - all KTM 250, 350 and 500 4T's are road legal and platable now in USA. EXC's should be same here.

My 2011 XR650L lightweight is platable too, Just saying. And rips a few more Newton Meters of wringkrag as well. I hope the CRF450L will turn out to be a gem - It might just.
Gonna sell some hardware in the meantime and see what happens. Till then I remain - Ever hopeful for what tommorow may give  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on June 28, 2018, 06:23:21 pm
At least we have confirmation on the power now! Now the service issue!?.. I have high hopes for this scooter.. :snorting:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 28, 2018, 07:22:35 pm
At least we have confirmation on the power now! Now the service issue!?.. I have high hopes for this scooter.. :snorting:

Where and what is it?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on June 28, 2018, 11:08:49 pm
At least we have confirmation on the power now! Now the service issue!?.. I have high hopes for this scooter.. :snorting:

Where and what is it?

Don't know how to place the link. But 'they' :lol8: mentioned mid 40's. Google crf450l its a Ī4 minute vid.. Sounds more believable!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on June 29, 2018, 06:26:28 am
At least we have confirmation on the power now! Now the service issue!?.. I have high hopes for this scooter.. :snorting:

Where and what is it?

Don't know how to place the link. But 'they' :lol8: mentioned mid 40's. Google crf450l its a Ī4 minute vid.. Sounds more believable!

I am sure that is that AdvPulse vid that they knocked together quite awhile back - still speculative (not saying they wrong but no official figures yet as fat as I know).
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on July 20, 2018, 09:15:44 am
I see this bike is about 12kg heavier than the ktm450/500. Why is that?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 09:32:00 am
I see this bike is about 12kg heavier than the ktm450/500. Why is that?

Its a Honda.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on July 20, 2018, 10:35:01 am
Again you cannot compare a Kerb weight with a dry weight. Why is it that KTM people cannot read between the lines. Add fuel battery oils etc.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on July 20, 2018, 10:51:03 am
Again you cannot compare a Kerb weight with a dry weight. Why is it that KTM people cannot read between the lines. Add fuel battery oils etc.

The dry weight of the ktm500 is 107kg, only fuel needed. The wetweight of the 450l is 131kg according to Google..

Edit: so the wetweight of the 450/500 is about 116kg..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 11:06:44 am
Again you cannot compare a Kerb weight with a dry weight. Why is it that KTM people cannot read between the lines. Add fuel battery oils etc.

The dry weight of the ktm500 is 107kg, only fuel needed. The wetweight of the 450l is 131kg according to Google..

Edit: so the wetweight of the 450/500 is about 116kg..

Wet weight of the KTM500 is about 114kg if I remember correctly
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on July 20, 2018, 11:09:57 am
Is this supposed to be a dual sport bike or an enduro bike?

131kg with decent suspension in a modern bike sounds damn good to me.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 11:15:30 am
Is this supposed to be a dual sport bike or an enduro bike?

131kg with decent suspension in a modern bike sounds damn good to me.

You need to read the thread boet - it is a repurposed MX bike with Yanky DS aspirations but without the DNA.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on July 20, 2018, 11:16:20 am
Is this supposed to be a dual sport bike or an enduro bike?

131kg with decent suspension in a modern bike sounds damn good to me.

Its a 'plated enduro'. Very heavy numberplate! :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 11:17:36 am
Is this supposed to be a dual sport bike or an enduro bike?

131kg with decent suspension in a modern bike sounds damn good to me.

Its a 'plated enduro'. Very heavy numberplate! :lol8:

Lead plated?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on July 20, 2018, 11:40:44 am
KTM website says KTM500exc is 114kgs dry. That is without oils fuel battery etc. I am not sure if it electric start but the Honda is.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on July 20, 2018, 11:55:23 am
KTM website says KTM500exc is 114kgs dry.

Nope. It says 107 without fuel.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on July 20, 2018, 12:11:08 pm
I just read 113kg Dry...add fuel,oil and other fluids? Battery/forks etc??
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 12:17:45 pm
Dry does not exclude the battery acid and fork oil - common guys stop this kak. You going to wype the fucking chain dry as well?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on July 20, 2018, 12:22:03 pm


Quote from: BiG DoM on Today at 12:17:45 pm (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=224637.msg4098084#msg4098084)
.
You going to wipe the fucking chain dry as well?
Yay! somebody VOICED my THOUGHTS - well done, Dom.
to the others: please ENSURE you void/evacuate yor BOWELS before riding, too, since this can also affect 'dry/wet' weight... ;)
Chris


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 12:22:57 pm


Quote from: BiG DoM on Today at 12:17:45 pm (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=224637.msg4098084#msg4098084)
.
You going to wipe the fucking chain dry as well?
Yay! somebody VOICED my THOUGHTS - well done, Dom.
to the others: please ENSURE you void/evacuate yor BOWELS before riding, too, since this can also affect 'dry/wet' weight... ;)
Chris


 :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on July 20, 2018, 12:23:38 pm
Dry does not exclude the battery acid and fork oil - common guys stop this kak. You going to wype the fucking chain dry as well?
Well I presume dry means dry??

Dry does not exclude the battery acid and fork oil....You certain?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 12:24:52 pm
Dry does not exclude the battery acid and fork oil - common guys stop this kak. You going to wype the fucking chain dry as well?
Well I presume dry means dry??

Dry does not exclude the battery acid and fork oil....You certain?

Look Honda is capable of anything when it comes to forks  >:D  So answer is no. Pass the KY.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on July 20, 2018, 12:51:27 pm
250 Rally is 20kg more than this CRF450L so nothing to worry about. My DRZ400 was also around 130kg and I could ride it anywhere. Unless you are going to do enduro races and decide to buy a dual sport bike for some obscure reason (CRF450L) I see no issue with the bikes weight. It's sold as a dual sport so it will have a proper side stand and frame  :pot: Oh it will also sell thousands just not in SA but I doubt Honda has sleepless nights about that.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 12:55:26 pm
250 Rally is 20kg more than this CRF450L so nothing to worry about. My DRZ400 was also around 130kg and I could ride it anywhere. Unless you are going to do enduro races and decide to buy a dual sport bike for some obscure reason (CRF450L) I see no issue with the bikes weight. It's sold as a dual sport so it will have a proper side stand and frame  :pot: Oh it will also sell thousands just not in SA but I doubt Honda has sleepless nights about that.

The Yanks like to supersize anyway.  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on July 20, 2018, 12:56:22 pm
250 Rally is 20kg more than this CRF450L so nothing to worry about. My DRZ400 was also around 130kg and I could ride it anywhere. Unless you are going to do enduro races and decide to buy a dual sport bike for some obscure reason (CRF450L) I see no issue with the bikes weight. It's sold as a dual sport so it will have a proper side stand and frame  :pot: Oh it will also sell thousands just not in SA but I doubt Honda has sleepless nights about that.
Agreed....and unlike the BMW450 this bike will be a success :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on July 20, 2018, 12:57:26 pm
250 Rally is 20kg more than this CRF450L so nothing to worry about. My DRZ400 was also around 130kg and I could ride it anywhere. Unless you are going to do enduro races and decide to buy a dual sport bike for some obscure reason (CRF450L) I see no issue with the bikes weight. It's sold as a dual sport so it will have a proper side stand and frame  :pot: Oh it will also sell thousands just not in SA but I doubt Honda has sleepless nights about that.
Agreed....and unlike the BMW450 this bike will be a success :imaposer:
>:D
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 01:42:32 pm
250 Rally is 20kg more than this CRF450L so nothing to worry about. My DRZ400 was also around 130kg and I could ride it anywhere. Unless you are going to do enduro races and decide to buy a dual sport bike for some obscure reason (CRF450L) I see no issue with the bikes weight. It's sold as a dual sport so it will have a proper side stand and frame  :pot: Oh it will also sell thousands just not in SA but I doubt Honda has sleepless nights about that.
Agreed....and unlike the BMW450 this bike will be a success :imaposer:

I know you are fishing but ... it was never sold as a DS bike, but yes as a plated enduro - 10 years before Honda even thought of it. And sold many thousands. And they are becoming increasingly sought after as DS light bikes internationally and can still get a top ten finish in the Dakar 10 years on. Real failure.  ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on July 20, 2018, 01:57:25 pm
Honda has been making enduro bikes since the 60s. The Honda Elsinore in the 70s Honda has also won plenty Enduro races. BMW is way behind in that area. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on July 20, 2018, 01:58:12 pm
I know you are fishing but ... it was never sold as a DS bike, but yes as a plated enduro - 10 years before Honda even thought of it. And sold many thousands. And they are becoming increasingly sought after as DS light bikes internationally and can still get a top ten finish in the Dakar 10 years on. Real failure.  ::)

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on July 20, 2018, 01:59:48 pm
Honda has been making enduro bikes since the 60s. The Honda Elsinore in the 70s Honda has also won plenty Enduro races. BMW is way behind in that area.

WTF?  No one was saying BMW competes in the enduro market. Joh! Honda fanboys.  :o
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on July 20, 2018, 02:04:29 pm
.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on July 21, 2018, 01:39:04 am
250 Rally is 20kg more than this CRF450L so nothing to worry about. My DRZ400 was also around 130kg and I could ride it anywhere. Unless you are going to do enduro races and decide to buy a dual sport bike for some obscure reason (CRF450L) I see no issue with the bikes weight. It's sold as a dual sport so it will have a proper side stand and frame  :pot: Oh it will also sell thousands just not in SA but I doubt Honda has sleepless nights about that.
Agreed....and unlike the BMW450 this bike will be a success :imaposer:

I know you are fishing but ... it was never sold as a DS bike, but yes as a plated enduro - 10 years before Honda even thought of it. And sold many thousands. And they are becoming increasingly sought after as DS light bikes internationally and can still get a top ten finish in the Dakar 10 years on. Real failure.  ::)

Lulkoek
Het jy van die XR vergeet?

Dis die plated enduro bike wat almal pakslae gegee het in die 80's al.

Die 80's; 'n tyd toe Honda staal rame en air forks gehad het..

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on July 21, 2018, 10:45:09 am
250 Rally is 20kg more than this CRF450L so nothing to worry about. My DRZ400 was also around 130kg and I could ride it anywhere. Unless you are going to do enduro races and decide to buy a dual sport bike for some obscure reason (CRF450L) I see no issue with the bikes weight. It's sold as a dual sport so it will have a proper side stand and frame  :pot: Oh it will also sell thousands just not in SA but I doubt Honda has sleepless nights about that.
Agreed....and unlike the BMW450 this bike will be a success :imaposer:

I know you are fishing but ... it was never sold as a DS bike, but yes as a plated enduro - 10 years before Honda even thought of it. And sold many thousands. And they are becoming increasingly sought after as DS light bikes internationally and can still get a top ten finish in the Dakar 10 years on. Real failure.  ::)

Lulkoek
Het jy van die XR vergeet?

Dis die plated enduro bike wat almal pakslae gegee het in die 80's al.

Die 80's; 'n tyd toe Honda staal rame en air forks gehad het..

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Wolfie, wat is n 'lulkoek'? :lol8:

Miskien is ons in vir n verrassing met die bike! Dis dalk Nader aan die xr650 tipe 'plated enduro'.. Sal great wees!....Muchas Gracias! O0
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on July 21, 2018, 11:14:20 am

Wolfie, wat is n 'lulkoek'? :lol8:

Miskien is ons in vir n verrassing met die bike! Dis dalk Nader aan die xr650 tipe 'plated enduro'.. Sal great wees!....Muchas Gracias! O0
;D lulkoek is nederlands vir bullshit
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on July 21, 2018, 11:25:07 am

Wolfie, wat is n 'lulkoek'? :lol8:

Miskien is ons in vir n verrassing met die bike! Dis dalk Nader aan die xr650 tipe 'plated enduro'.. Sal great wees!....Muchas Gracias! O0
;D lulkoek is nederlands vir bullshit

Dis n lekker woord! Gaan hom onthou!.. >:D
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 15, 2018, 12:35:20 pm
First bikes being delivered to US dealers, just a matter of time before we get some real world feedback via the ADVrider grapevine
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on September 15, 2018, 02:50:56 pm
Good, keep us posted please.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 16, 2018, 07:09:06 am
:sip:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Offshore on September 16, 2018, 07:30:25 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fudge on September 16, 2018, 07:50:18 am
Apparently there is a media embargo that gets lifted tomorrow (Monday.) Should see a flood of reviews then from Australia and the US.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: ROOI on September 16, 2018, 11:17:22 am
First bikes being delivered to US dealers, just a matter of time before we get some real world feedback via the ADVrider grapevine
AAAHA so wie wil KTM 500 koop  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 16, 2018, 12:15:31 pm
Now this is something worth looking @! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: YamaV on September 16, 2018, 02:26:11 pm
https://www.webbikeworld.com/2019-honda-crf450l-test-ride-review/

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 17, 2018, 07:39:17 am
Looks like a very nice bike! The only thing I don't like reading that review (thanks YamaV :thumleft:) is the fact that you cant see the fuel level in any way.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 17, 2018, 07:46:46 am
I cannot see the fuel level on my 701 either......

Seems to be priced between a DR-Z400 and the 500/501's.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 17, 2018, 08:18:25 am
What is that in the circle ? External charger, power up connection ? It seems they reckon 45hp at least not 24 as much of the pre release talk was about.
Second pic already much better than any KTM stock indicators I have come across  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on September 17, 2018, 08:23:45 am
Charger port for Lithium battery
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on September 17, 2018, 08:45:03 am
https://www.webbikeworld.com/2019-honda-crf450l-test-ride-review/

Thanks for posting that  :thumleft:

Lot's of good info but the 'review' part is questionable. Lot's of the stats and figures just seem to be more of the stuff mentioned on previous posts. I'd like to see that do 32000kms on a top end.....

I like this bike a lot! Super keen to see some kitted out ones when they're finally available
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on September 17, 2018, 09:01:50 am
I am very exited by this bike. It really is ticking a lot of boxes for me as being a FUN modern dualsport bike from Honda.

What possibly sinks it for me is the service intervals though: 600miles = 960km. Are you F*cking serious  :xxbah:  (I really hope that figure is wrong)
So you're telling me on a typical jaunt around SA I have to change the oil twice?????   If they could have gotten this up to 5000km it would be a no brainer which bike I'm buying next.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Operator on September 17, 2018, 09:06:04 am
I cannot see the fuel level on my 701 either......

Seems to be priced between a DR-Z400 and the 500/501's.

If Honda can put it on the salesfloor for R115 to R120 000 they might have a winner.
Hellavu lot of money for a "rough" 450cc, but if you compare it to other trademarks........

I see the retail price overseas is $10 300
If Rand/Dollar is currently R15,00 to the Dollar, that means ($10300 x 15 = R 154 500)
it would cost R154 500.
That is Africa Twin price territory
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 17, 2018, 09:08:37 am
https://www.webbikeworld.com/2019-honda-crf450l-test-ride-review/

Thanks for posting that  :thumleft:

Lot's of good info but the 'review' part is questionable. Lot's of the stats and figures just seem to be more of the stuff mentioned on previous posts. I'd like to see that do 32000kms on a top end.....

I like this bike a lot! Super keen to see some kitted out ones when they're finally available
Oh those Yanks are going to kit them good  :drif:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Buff on September 17, 2018, 10:38:12 am
When I read something like this then I realize just how clueless this journalist is... seriously, HTF do you rate a bikes suspension by riding off a curb?  :imaposer:

The bike does seem like a peach though and certainly looks the part  :thumleft:

"The first thing I did was test the fully adjustable Showa Pro-Link suspension front and rear by riding off a 12-inch high concrete curb onto the parking lot at the dealership. Then I turned around, blipped the throttle and climbed back up on it just as effortlessly.

In that moment it reminded me of the suspension I enjoyed very much on my old CRF250X, only this was even better. The 12 inches of travel ate up that drop like nothing doing. This is exactly the same setup on the new 450X, meaning I knew right away I could ride this machine in the woods and mountains on tight single track paths with wild abandon and the bike would take me anywhere.
"
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: superfoxi on September 17, 2018, 10:53:19 am
When I read something like this then I realize just how clueless this journalist is... seriously, HTF do you rate a bikes suspension by riding off a curb?  :imaposer:

The bike does seem like a peach though and certainly looks the part  :thumleft:

"The first thing I did was test the fully adjustable Showa Pro-Link suspension front and rear by riding off a 12-inch high concrete curb onto the parking lot at the dealership. Then I turned around, blipped the throttle and climbed back up on it just as effortlessly.

In that moment it reminded me of the suspension I enjoyed very much on my old CRF250X, only this was even better. The 12 inches of travel ate up that drop like nothing doing. This is exactly the same setup on the new 450X, meaning I knew right away I could ride this machine in the woods and mountains on tight single track paths with wild abandon and the bike would take me anywhere.
"

And how is that one?:

"The KTM and Husky both sport WP Xplor PDS suspension which is better quality overall than the Showa ProLink on the 450L. I donít think anyone would dispute that"

The Xplor forks are most likely the kakkest ones on the market at the moment and a lot of people are actually upgrading to the much older (pre-4CS) open cartridge forks - or even better Showa or Kayaba forks. And the Husky doesn't have "PDS suspension but a linkage system - just like the Honda...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on September 17, 2018, 11:21:54 am
I am very excited about this bike. The $/Rand just scares me. No fault of Honda.

Japanese quality and reliability with DS capability.

Desmog it and fit some proper tires and you can take her racing if you really want. Bigger tanks will also make her great for tough touring.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on September 17, 2018, 11:53:12 am
Throw on some D606's and it looks like a well rounded bike for really exploring off the beaten track.
A fan as standard is something new from Honda in this CRF range too.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 17, 2018, 01:24:04 pm
https://www.webbikeworld.com/2019-honda-crf450l-test-ride-review/

Thanks for posting that  :thumleft:

Lot's of good info but the 'review' part is questionable. Lot's of the stats and figures just seem to be more of the stuff mentioned on previous posts. I'd like to see that do 32000kms on a top end.....

I like this bike a lot! Super keen to see some kitted out ones when they're finally available

A friend rode his old WR426, in a mixed-bag of riding, from touring to a few enduros, up to 22000kms, and no measurable wear could be found on shims, etc.

I'd say 32000kms is more than doable.

PS. Obviously not if the bike is raced, or ridden hard all round.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Offshore on September 17, 2018, 01:28:15 pm
is a Top End a big Deal Financially?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on September 17, 2018, 01:39:17 pm
is a Top End a big Deal Financially?

If it is just rings and piston + labour and gaskets no. If however valves and barrel have damage and needs replacing yes. Hi kilometers on a 450 Japanese bikes are not uncommon, their is just a line one needs to stay ahead of interms of valve clearance settings and oil changes to keep it there.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on September 17, 2018, 01:42:52 pm
https://www.webbikeworld.com/2019-honda-crf450l-test-ride-review/

Thanks for posting that  :thumleft:

Lot's of good info but the 'review' part is questionable. Lot's of the stats and figures just seem to be more of the stuff mentioned on previous posts. I'd like to see that do 32000kms on a top end.....

I like this bike a lot! Super keen to see some kitted out ones when they're finally available

A friend rode his old WR426, in a mixed-bag of riding, from touring to a few enduros, up to 22000kms, and no measurable wear could be found on shims, etc.

I'd say 32000kms is more than doable.

PS. Obviously not if the bike is raced, or ridden hard all round.

Rode with a guy that did 20000km on his WR450 just in DeWild so sure itís possible. The older CRFís just never felt like theyíd cope with the same kind of distance. The ones I rode anyway. Always felt a bit more on edge than the Yamiís
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 17, 2018, 01:43:43 pm
Cant see this bike requiring any more or less maintenance than a KTM 500 and as proved by now the 500 makes a very capable technical dual sport with very few reliability issues (some might even say less than a 690). It will be just fine for the intended purpose, if you are thinking about tar stretches and long service intervals you are looking at the wrong bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: intothewild on September 17, 2018, 02:01:53 pm
link to a walkaround clip by honda canada

https://youtu.be/6g1zMreWaIk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: intothewild on September 17, 2018, 02:04:40 pm
no to keen on the titanium fuel tank, seems like its a bit to small and also why not a normal cheaper plastic fuel tank, i guess this is some sort of safety requirements
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 17, 2018, 02:23:25 pm
no to keen on the titanium fuel tank, seems like its a bit to small and also why not a normal cheaper plastic fuel tank, i guess this is some sort of safety requirements
I know in Japan road legal bikes needs a metal tank, maybe that's why. Anyway still silly to use titanium for something that will be first on the list to be swapped out. How much heavier and cheaper would a steel tank have been ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 17, 2018, 02:31:26 pm
9:24  :eek7:

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on September 17, 2018, 02:51:49 pm
no to keen on the titanium fuel tank, seems like its a bit to small and also why not a normal cheaper plastic fuel tank, i guess this is some sort of safety requirements

According to Honda, the titanium tank is cheaper to produce than the plastic equivalent. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on September 17, 2018, 04:10:59 pm
no to keen on the titanium fuel tank, seems like its a bit to small and also why not a normal cheaper plastic fuel tank, i guess this is some sort of safety requirements

According to Honda, the titanium tank is cheaper to produce than the plastic equivalent.

Yup, time and manufacturing process makes the titanium tank cheaper to produce.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 17, 2018, 04:45:04 pm
9:24  :eek7:



WTF!? :lol8: At least we know the thing can wheelie!

But where are all the reviews?....or is Honda US still holding the reviewers back?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on September 17, 2018, 05:07:52 pm
No kickstart as backup?
I like that it comes with flicker kit etc, LOVE the actual flicker design that type of design should be standard on all bikes.-  but I'd like to know - in the real world - how this compares with the KTM 500 / Husky 501.


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 17, 2018, 05:17:28 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 17, 2018, 05:22:34 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: immigrant on September 17, 2018, 05:53:11 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
It’s not.....But the L is street legal off the showroom floor. In my opinion it is the only reason it recieves all this attention. Hopefully Yamaha slap some mirrors and indicators on in 2019...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 17, 2018, 06:10:24 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
Itís not.....But the L is street legal off the showroom floor. In my opinion it is the only reason it recieves all this attention. Hopefully Yamaha slap some mirrors and indicators on in 2019...

Yamaha does not "slap" anything on......it takes years of planning and testing, which is why we'll see the T7 in 2029. :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on September 17, 2018, 06:17:31 pm
http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-review/
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Offshore on September 17, 2018, 06:22:25 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
Itís not.....But the L is street legal off the showroom floor. In my opinion it is the only reason it recieves all this attention. Hopefully Yamaha slap some mirrors and indicators on in 2019...

Yamaha does not "slap" anything on......it takes years of planning and testing, which is why we'll see the T7 in 2029. :pot:
Very good Point, they have noticed in their Research that People are getting more obese, which accounts for the Strengthening of the Frame and the subsequent Weight. :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: YamaV on September 17, 2018, 06:29:35 pm
Lots of first impression reviews on youtube showing up now  :)



Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on September 17, 2018, 06:49:40 pm
No kickstart as backup?
I like that it comes with flicker kit etc, LOVE the actual flicker design that type of design should be standard on all bikes.-  but I'd like to know - in the real world - how this compares with the KTM 500 / Husky 501.

According to this so far the most somber review, L doesn't seem to be aimed at those bikes at all: https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#h11JTtwOOaOQrXM2.97 (https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#h11JTtwOOaOQrXM2.97)

I guess if you want 500 in red, you will have to get X and get it plated (assuming it has more power than L and less weight)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on September 17, 2018, 07:08:32 pm
no to keen on the titanium fuel tank, seems like its a bit to small and also why not a normal cheaper plastic fuel tank, i guess this is some sort of safety requirements

No, it is off the shelf same as the X/R and as such was for weight saving. That narrow motocross seat is going to be a real WTF butt killer. I still claim it is a nip and tuck repurposed MX bike for the Yanky plated market ... to get to the woods riding. We already know one can take a 450/500 dirt bike and make it more ... or less ... DS capable. Guys been doing it for yonks - all of a sardine they think they have found the unicorn  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on September 17, 2018, 07:58:49 pm
&t=18s
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 17, 2018, 08:01:47 pm
No kickstart as backup?
I like that it comes with flicker kit etc, LOVE the actual flicker design that type of design should be standard on all bikes.-  but I'd like to know - in the real world - how this compares with the KTM 500 / Husky 501.

According to this so far the most somber review, L doesn't seem to be aimed at those bikes at all: https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#h11JTtwOOaOQrXM2.97 (https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#h11JTtwOOaOQrXM2.97)

I guess if you want 500 in red, you will have to get X and get it plated (assuming it has more power than L and less weight)
Hence priced between a DRZ and KTM500. Middle ground so to speak
Edit 700$ in it not much difference
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 17, 2018, 09:57:35 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?

It's better because it's a Honda of course  >:D  :pot:  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 17, 2018, 10:03:01 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?

It's better because it's a Honda of course  >:D  :pot:  :peepwall:

 :xxbah: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 18, 2018, 06:01:08 am
Dom: its a Honda unicorn ;D

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bwana on September 18, 2018, 09:41:37 am
What I like listening to all the reviews is that they have made the bike easy to ride due to the power curve. They have given this bike a lot of thought. Smooth engine due to balancer shafts
quiet drive train and rear suspension due to the damping systems they have installed. Nice fuel managment system. Suspension more user friendly for adventure riding. Service intervals.
never mind indicators stronger tail for luggage and lights etc. I am know you can modify a 450x but it will be a totally different bike and cannot be compared to the 450l..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 18, 2018, 09:49:04 am
What I like listening to all the reviews is that they have made the bike easy to ride due to the power curve. They have given this bike a lot of thought. Smooth engine due to balancer shafts
quiet drive train and rear suspension due to the damping systems they have installed. Nice fuel managment system. Suspension more user friendly for adventure riding. Service intervals.
never mind indicators stronger tail for luggage and lights etc. I am know you can modify a 450x but it will be a totally different bike and cannot be compared to the 450l..

And Japanese reliability!! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on September 18, 2018, 09:58:37 am
&t=18s

Ok I'm sold; anyone in the market for a 690?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 18, 2018, 01:41:11 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
Besides having 6 gears, cush hub, decent lights, stronger stator, stronger sub frame, radiator fan, proper wiring harness and street legal from the showroom floor not much I guess
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 18, 2018, 02:31:17 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
Besides having 6 gears, cush hub, decent lights, stronger stator, stronger sub frame, radiator fan, proper wiring harness and street legal from the showroom floor not much I guess

But the same Japanese reliability!

..and its Red..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tommy Transalp on September 18, 2018, 05:12:29 pm
When will the rallye version be launched?.... I'll be a player for that! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on September 18, 2018, 05:17:22 pm
Not sure it will find its way to these shores? Will be big moola (if one does the maths circa R150K) and not sure Honda SA will take the risk. Or does someone have the inside track?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: XRRX on September 18, 2018, 05:20:22 pm
I wouldn't mind having one of these Red beauties in my stall !!!  :3some:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on September 18, 2018, 05:47:39 pm
When will the rallye version be launched?.... I'll be a player for that! :thumleft:
I don't think it will. The whole point is plated enduro bike, not much point adding a whole lot if weight to it.  More suited to trail riding, rather than our style of dualsport.

I also have doubts we will see it here
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: superfoxi on September 18, 2018, 08:33:57 pm
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
Besides having 6 gears, cush hub, decent lights, stronger stator, stronger sub frame, radiator fan, proper wiring harness and street legal from the showroom floor not much I guess

But the same Japanese reliability!

..and its Red..

I don't think it has a proper cush drive hub...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on September 19, 2018, 07:03:06 am
Would I buy this bike over just about anything (if I had the dough?) -> Yes.

Will easily do my 20k commute through town, and will be much more capable than the Rally for the occasional off-road day. Can even squeeze out a rally type event or two. I'm sure it will be cheaper to maintain (doing it yourself) and more reliable than anything from Europe (and better suspension?).

It probably will cost at least twice what I paid for my 250, so I wont ever have a new one.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on September 19, 2018, 08:16:28 am
Most honest review I have seen so far
 https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#GIPV6br3qMDMmjJz.97
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on September 19, 2018, 09:09:29 am
Most honest review I have seen so far
 https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#GIPV6br3qMDMmjJz.97

This bit really explains this bike well:

Quote
Riders coming off a Suzuki DR-Z400 would be happily impressed. And if you are one of the many Honda XR650L riders out there looking for a lighter and higher performance Honda option, this bike is right in your wheelhouse. Want to do more trails than your Kawasaki KLX will handle, now weíre talking. This bike is about as good as Honda could do in a world where sound, emissions and safety standards keep widening the gap between competition race bikes and bikes you can ride on public lands and on roads when needed. With the CRF450L Honda has sharpened the point on its current offerings and filled a long standing gap in the model line. Honda dealers and the right customer will be very happy.
Read more at https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#lg7WMqTh9trzvpV1.99

For the intended purpose this is going to be a great machine. It is going to sell like hotcakes in my opinion. What might kill it in SA is the R/$ though  :'(
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on September 19, 2018, 09:11:26 am
Anyone with connections at Honda SA able to give us the skinny on when/if we can expect it here?  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on September 19, 2018, 09:20:07 am


Quote from: Kortbroek on Today at 09:11:26 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=224637.msg4131969#msg4131969)>Anyone with connections at Honda SA able to give us the skinny on when/if we can expect it here?  :peepwall:
They hope to have it at Killarney on 04th November, for display at the Car & Bike day.
The also MIGHT/MAY offer a servicing recommendation/plan whereby it is serviced 'X' number of kilometers when raced/hard Enduro-type riding, and
a DIFFERENT servicing recommendation for NON-hard-Enduro riding i.e. Adventure-style riding. Thus preserving the warranty, etc.
Now I know MANY people are going to want to know HOW they will do this; no one knows yet, just be aware it is 'on the table', so to speak.
Chris



Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on September 19, 2018, 09:41:24 am


Quote from: Kortbroek on Today at 09:11:26 am (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=224637.msg4131969#msg4131969)>Anyone with connections at Honda SA able to give us the skinny on when/if we can expect it here?  :peepwall:
They hope to have it at Killarney on 04th November, for display at the Car & Bike day.
The also MIGHT/MAY offer a servicing recommendation/plan whereby it is serviced 'X' number of kilometers when raced/hard Enduro-type riding, and
a DIFFERENT servicing recommendation for NON-hard-Enduro riding i.e. Adventure-style riding. Thus preserving the warranty, etc.
Now I know MANY people are going to want to know HOW they will do this; no one knows yet, just be aware it is 'on the table', so to speak.
Chris



Clearly the Flying Brick has been doing some low flying  :biggrin:  So I guess they are saying they will import it. Pricing will be interesting - Honda is known to juggle the numbers for various market penetration.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on September 19, 2018, 10:47:08 am
All I don't like is the small tank and that thin seat. Ones arse is going to be sore after a day in/on that saddle!

Yes, and how is this "L" better than the WR's that's been available for 39 years, to serve the same purpose?
Besides having 6 gears, cush hub, decent lights, stronger stator, stronger sub frame, radiator fan, proper wiring harness and street legal from the showroom floor not much I guess

Not a cush hub.  Has a rubber coated sprocket to dampen noise.  Apparently on a drive-by sound check, the chain was noisier than a quiet road exhaust.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Cracker on September 19, 2018, 12:03:34 pm
Who in their right mind calls bike-chain noise, noise pollution?

Retards .... >:(
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 19, 2018, 04:19:45 pm
Most honest review I have seen so far
 https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#GIPV6br3qMDMmjJz.97
Jimmy Lewis knows his stuff and like some of us said if the Japanese releases a "plated dirt bike" it will be done properly and sorted. So it's between existing dual sport bikes with good off road ability like a XR650L and DRZ but not as racey as a KTM 500. Sounds about perfect to me.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 19, 2018, 06:11:09 pm
Just wonder why so little hp, WR has about 58hp and 49 torque.
Title: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on September 19, 2018, 06:22:31 pm
They are hopefully landing November. this is directly from Honda SA.

I am very excited. Costing is however a huge problem with our Rand vs $ exchange rate.

This bike might make me sell more than just my YZ.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 19, 2018, 06:22:47 pm
Just wonder why so little hp, WR has about 58hp and 49 torque.

You have to detune a bit to ensure better longevity and stretched service intervals.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on September 19, 2018, 06:26:12 pm
Just wonder why so little hp, WR has about 58hp and 49 torque.
Watse WR het 58 Hp?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 19, 2018, 06:41:33 pm
Most honest review I have seen so far
 https://dirtbiketest.com/fresh-dirt/2019-honda-crf450l-first-riding-impression/#GIPV6br3qMDMmjJz.97
Jimmy Lewis knows his stuff and like some of us said if the Japanese releases a "plated dirt bike" it will be done properly and sorted. So it's between existing dual sport bikes with good off road ability like a XR650L and DRZ but not as racey as a KTM 500. Sounds about perfect to me.

Sounds more than perfect! This is what you need for REal remote riding!.. I want two! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 20, 2018, 10:02:28 am
Just wonder why so little hp, WR has about 58hp and 49 torque.
Watse WR het 58 Hp?

@2StrokeDan  dit is ook weer waar ja, en 45hp is seker genoeg.

@tau volgens Motorcycle spec's, http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_wr450f%2007.htm
En 'n vriend van my in Aus het gister bevestig sy 2015 model WR450F doen 58hp teen 9000rpm.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/Yamaha%20WR450F%202015.htm
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on September 20, 2018, 11:10:27 am
Just wonder why so little hp, WR has about 58hp and 49 torque.
Watse WR het 58 Hp?

@2StrokeDan  dit is ook weer waar ja, en 45hp is seker genoeg.

@tau volgens Motorcycle spec's, http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_wr450f%2007.htm
En 'n vriend van my in Aus het gister bevestig sy 2015 model WR450F doen 58hp teen 9000rpm.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/Yamaha%20WR450F%202015.htm

Ek het Ďn 2011,2012 carb en 2013 WR FI met ander CAM en vol FMF gehad. So ja hulle kan by 58 hp kom, maar nie met standaard pyp en smog kit nie. Hulle is wel moer reliable
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 20, 2018, 11:36:05 am
Just wonder why so little hp, WR has about 58hp and 49 torque.
Watse WR het 58 Hp?

@2StrokeDan  dit is ook weer waar ja, en 45hp is seker genoeg.

@tau volgens Motorcycle spec's, http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_wr450f%2007.htm
En 'n vriend van my in Aus het gister bevestig sy 2015 model WR450F doen 58hp teen 9000rpm.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/Yamaha%20WR450F%202015.htm

Ek het Ďn 2011,2012 carb en 2013 WR FI met ander CAM en vol FMF gehad. So ja hulle kan by 58 hp kom, maar nie met standaard pyp en smog kit nie. Hulle is wel moer reliable

Baie interessant, het self nie een nie so sal nie weet nie. Daai vriend van my in Aus sin is standaard en volgens al sy info is hy 58hp, ook al die specs wat ek kan vind op die net sÍ standaard is hulle 58hp, selfs vir jou jaar modelle, kon net nie die FI model kry nie.  Weet die vervaardigers is partykeer bietjie optimisties maar dink nie hulle sal so baie lieg nie. Dalk was die modelle wat SA toe gekom het anders, biejtie "gedetune"?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on September 20, 2018, 08:16:59 pm
Just wonder why so little hp, WR has about 58hp and 49 torque.
Watse WR het 58 Hp?

@2StrokeDan  dit is ook weer waar ja, en 45hp is seker genoeg.

@tau volgens Motorcycle spec's, http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_wr450f%2007.htm
En 'n vriend van my in Aus het gister bevestig sy 2015 model WR450F doen 58hp teen 9000rpm.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/Yamaha%20WR450F%202015.htm

Vir waaroor die gesprek gaan sal mens hom nie so rev nie en meeste bikes in die klas se krag kurwe sal baie naby aan mekaar wees tot sÍ bv 6000. Selfs Ďn KTM 500 en Ďn BMW 450 voel nie ligjare van mekaar af tot mens die 500 goed begin op wen nie
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on September 20, 2018, 11:31:12 pm
Vir waaroor die gesprek gaan sal mens hom nie so rev nie en meeste bikes in die klas se krag kurwe sal baie naby aan mekaar wees tot sÍ bv 6000. Selfs Ďn KTM 500 en Ďn BMW 450 voel nie ligjare van mekaar af tot mens die 500 goed begin op wen nie

Dis so goed jy vertel my jou diesel stasiewa is net so goed as my supercharged sports coupe Mercedes, solank ons hul net tot by 3k rpm rev.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on September 21, 2018, 05:26:43 am
Vir waaroor die gesprek gaan sal mens hom nie so rev nie en meeste bikes in die klas se krag kurwe sal baie naby aan mekaar wees tot sÍ bv 6000. Selfs Ďn KTM 500 en Ďn BMW 450 voel nie ligjare van mekaar af tot mens die 500 goed begin op wen nie

Dis so goed jy vertel my jou diesel stasiewa is net so goed as my supercharged sports coupe Mercedes, solank ons hul net tot by 3k rpm rev.

Oordryf much? Het die CRF vir jou te min krag gehad vir die ry wat julle gedoen het? Jy weet wat die punt van my stelling is...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on September 21, 2018, 07:38:05 am
Ek weet inderdaad wat jou punt is en dis 'n goeie.
Alleen, as beide bikes op die vloer staan teen selfde prys maar 15hp verskil, gaan weinig persone die rooi een kies.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on September 21, 2018, 08:39:01 am
Alleen, as beide bikes op die vloer staan teen selfde prys maar 15hp verskil, gaan weinig persone die rooi een kies.

Ek dink jy is bietjie verkeerd hier. Min mense behalwe ons "keyboard riders" gee eintlik om oor die papier syfers van 'n bike. Krag is nie alles nie.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 21, 2018, 08:45:14 am
Ek weet inderdaad wat jou punt is en dis 'n goeie.
Alleen, as beide bikes op die vloer staan teen selfde prys maar 15hp verskil, gaan weinig persone die rooi een kies.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Lulkoek! >:(  Baie gaan rooi kies! Baie is oortuig daaraan dat Japanese meer betroubaar en user friendly is!

Anybody in the market for a 690?.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on September 21, 2018, 08:55:15 am
Lol!
Ja mens hoop maar sanity prevails

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 21, 2018, 09:05:36 am
I have seen too many broken down 690's to go that route as nice and fast as they are.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on September 21, 2018, 11:35:31 am
Alleen, as beide bikes op die vloer staan teen selfde prys maar 15hp verskil, gaan weinig persone die rooi een kies.

Ek dink jy is bietjie verkeerd hier. Min mense behalwe ons "keyboard riders" gee eintlik om oor die papier syfers van 'n bike. Krag is nie alles nie.
10/10

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 21, 2018, 12:21:08 pm
Alleen, as beide bikes op die vloer staan teen selfde prys maar 15hp verskil, gaan weinig persone die rooi een kies.

Ek dink jy is bietjie verkeerd hier. Min mense behalwe ons "keyboard riders" gee eintlik om oor die papier syfers van 'n bike. Krag is nie alles nie.
Case in point my 250 Rally is die lekkerste bike wat ek in n lang ruk gehad het en ook die stadigste.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Constantinople on September 21, 2018, 12:50:16 pm
Case in point my 250 Rally is die lekkerste bike wat ek in n lang ruk gehad het en ook die stadigste.

Waar!! Selfs my KLR was so bietjie vinniger!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on September 21, 2018, 01:58:37 pm
Alleen, as beide bikes op die vloer staan teen selfde prys maar 15hp verskil, gaan weinig persone die rooi een kies.

Ek dink jy is bietjie verkeerd hier. Min mense behalwe ons "keyboard riders" gee eintlik om oor die papier syfers van 'n bike. Krag is nie alles nie.
Case in point my 250 Rally is die lekkerste bike wat ek in n lang ruk gehad het en ook die stadigste.
Ja maar jy's n gesoute biker wat weet wat hy wil hÍ.

Die res is geneig om te val vir sales talk en spec sheets

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 21, 2018, 02:33:55 pm
Alleen, as beide bikes op die vloer staan teen selfde prys maar 15hp verskil, gaan weinig persone die rooi een kies.

Ek dink jy is bietjie verkeerd hier. Min mense behalwe ons "keyboard riders" gee eintlik om oor die papier syfers van 'n bike. Krag is nie alles nie.
Case in point my 250 Rally is die lekkerste bike wat ek in n lang ruk gehad het en ook die stadigste.
Ja maar jy's n gesoute biker wat weet wat hy wil hÍ.

Die res is geneig om te val vir sales talk en spec sheets

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
Gaan die post thank om my ego te boost  :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on September 21, 2018, 07:31:22 pm
I like it. R150k? Bietjie wild vir 'n 450.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 21, 2018, 08:22:51 pm
I like it. R150k? Bietjie wild vir 'n 450.

Well, if it does really have a cush-drive hub, stronger stator and better lighting, full wiring harness that caters for all lighting, stronger subframe, radiator fan standard then perhaps R150 000 is not too far off.

Buy a WR and get it up to above spec-level and see where you end up.

OK, you'll own a Yamaha which is so much better than struggling with a Honda. :deal: :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on September 21, 2018, 08:50:52 pm
I like it. R150k? Bietjie wild vir 'n 450.
Bikes are expensive in SA full stop, 84 for a 250 -150 for a 450 -250 whatever for a 1200GSA. Like we saw if a KLR was still available here it would now have been over 100k what can we do. Demos should be quite a bit cheaper when available, only way I could buy a newish model bike
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: YoungGSer on September 22, 2018, 12:39:14 am
I like it. R150k? Bietjie wild vir 'n 450.
Bikes are expensive in SA full stop, 84 for a 250 -150 for a 450 -250 whatever for a 1200GSA. Like we saw if a KLR was still available here it would now have been over 100k what can we do. Demos should be quite a bit cheaper when available, only way I could buy a newish model bike
Hmm thatís not strictly true, if you see what bikes cost in the UK or Aus you will see that SA actually is one of the cheapest places to buy bikes. A brand new KTM 500 6 days costs R167000 in the UK and R326000 for a GSA before you add any extras like panniers. And over $11k for a 500 in the US.


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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on September 22, 2018, 02:21:09 am
Hmmm that's also not entirely true.
The issue is R
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 22, 2018, 12:51:04 pm
I like it. R150k? Bietjie wild vir 'n 450.
Bikes are expensive in SA full stop, 84 for a 250 -150 for a 450 -250 whatever for a 1200GSA. Like we saw if a KLR was still available here it would now have been over 100k what can we do. Demos should be quite a bit cheaper when available, only way I could buy a newish model bike
Hmm thatís not strictly true, if you see what bikes cost in the UK or Aus you will see that SA actually is one of the cheapest places to buy bikes. A brand new KTM 500 6 days costs R167000 in the UK and R326000 for a GSA before you add any extras like panniers. And over $11k for a 500 in the US.


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But Europe's food is now so much cheaper than ours, and coupled with their real-world salaries, they can afford these prices.

Remember, the market dictates what things cost.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: XRRX on September 22, 2018, 01:25:40 pm
Although I belief this is going to be a brilliant piece of machinery - probably the XRR with happy button everyone has been craving for - but at 150k !!!  ??? :o
Honda SA struggles to get rid of old CRF1000 stock at 145k !!!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on September 22, 2018, 05:17:54 pm

But Europe's food is now so much cheaper than ours, and coupled with their real-world salaries, they can afford these prices.

Remember, the market dictates what things cost.

Some USA MSRP stats:
2000 Cr250/450F -> $5800
2016 Cr250/450F -> $8700

That's a 50% increase in 16years..

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on September 22, 2018, 09:14:41 pm
Die Rand is die probleem. Sal graag die outjie in my garage wil trek maar dink nie ek sal R150k uithaal nie. My ou staatmaker is nou wat werd, R40k?  But i must say, Honda does seem have their finger on the pulse.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on September 22, 2018, 09:46:16 pm
Wat kos 'n KTM 450 of 'n WR450F?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on September 23, 2018, 07:22:29 am
Wat kos 'n KTM 450 of 'n WR450F?

Seker dieselfde?

Edit: ek bietch maar net bietjie oor fietspryse in die algemeen.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 23, 2018, 10:36:05 am
I like it. R150k? Bietjie wild vir 'n 450.

Is julle seker oor die 150k?..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on September 24, 2018, 09:56:18 am
I like it. R150k? Bietjie wild vir 'n 450.

Is julle seker oor die 150k?..

Nee, maar die 2019 crf450R is plaaslik R110k en die 450L verkoop vir net oor die $10k oorsee. Teen die huidige exchange rate lyk dit nader aan R150k. Kom ons kyk maar waar hy land.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on September 24, 2018, 10:58:06 am
Wat kos 'n KTM 450 of 'n WR450F?
2018 KTM 450 EXC R122000
2018 WR 450 F R105000
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: edgy on September 24, 2018, 12:14:22 pm
Honda in particular have very little regard for R/$ conversion and use their own international exchange rate, they always have and this makes the local product a lot cheaper in dollar terms
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: XRRX on September 24, 2018, 01:01:21 pm
I would reckon given its specs - 125 - 130k in our market...
Below 120 should make it a "bargain"!!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on September 24, 2018, 02:05:31 pm
Honda in particular have very little regard for R/$ conversion and use their own international exchange rate, they always have and this makes the local product a lot cheaper in dollar terms

Didn't know that. Makes sense if you think about it. Otherwise developing economies would be out of the market. R120-R130k as estimated below sounds better. This is going to be a popular bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on September 24, 2018, 02:12:35 pm
Honda in particular have very little regard for R/$ conversion and use their own international exchange rate, they always have and this makes the local product a lot cheaper in dollar terms

fact yes  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: uaedesertfox on September 24, 2018, 02:12:43 pm
Prices are specified to local market and to meet market entry pricing,

The CRF1000L costs £10,500 or £11,300 for the DCT in the UK (Google search), that is R196,500.00 or R211,500.00 for the DCT, yet they are at R145,000.00 = market adjustment.

The CRF450L will be adjusted for market entry...  8)

Price = as yet unknown

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Damaraland on September 25, 2018, 08:40:16 am
Wat kos 'n KTM 450 of 'n WR450F?

Nie seker wat die 450 kos nie, maar my '18 EXC 500 was R117 999 in Namibia.  Het in Maart gekoop.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fransw on September 25, 2018, 12:49:48 pm
My thumsuck guess is R110k launch special!..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on October 03, 2018, 06:35:10 pm
1000km oil change & valves every 3000km. Definitely more performance oriented.

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-review/
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 09, 2018, 04:19:22 pm
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: mtr89 on October 10, 2018, 06:03:33 am
1000km oil change & valves every 3000km. Definitely more performance oriented.

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-review/
An oil change every 1000 kays?
You'll be doing oil changes every second weekend , if not every weekend
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: fixit on October 10, 2018, 06:22:27 am
1000km oil change & valves every 3000km. Definitely more performance oriented.

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-review/
An oil change every 1000 kays?
You'll be doing oil changes every second weekend , if not every weekend

Off the Honda site??

"CRF450L **NEW MODEL**

Using the CRF450R moto-crosser as a base, Hondaís new dual-purpose motorcycle has a tough, lightweight chassis built to find all the available grip, powered by an engine that delivers strong, usable power right from the bottom. While offering maximum enjoyment for the off-road hobby rider, the CRF450L is also fully street legal and street-ready, with sidestand, increased fuel tank volume and all-LED lighting. Durable, high quality parts and long service intervals Ė with a first major service at 32,000km Ė aim for a worry-free riding and ownership experience."

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Edgar on October 10, 2018, 08:11:59 am
Looks like a nice weekend toy :ricky:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on October 10, 2018, 08:16:58 am
1000km oil change & valves every 3000km. Definitely more performance oriented.

http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/2019-honda-crf450l-review/
An oil change every 1000 kays?
You'll be doing oil changes every second weekend , if not every weekend

a first major service at 32,000km Ėaim for a worry-free riding and ownership experience."

That's for it's first rebuild, as I understand.

Edit: It is part of Honda's Performance line of bikes after all, which includes it's siblings the X and R

http://www.hondaprokevin.com/pictures/maintenance-schedule/honda-CRF450L-maintenance-schedule-oil-changes-service-engine-specs.jpg
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: YoungGSer on October 10, 2018, 08:30:01 am
So a new motor guts at 30000km....would be interesting to see how long it takes someone to get to that if itís only used on the weekends and for a few trips a year!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on October 10, 2018, 08:34:00 am
So a new motor guts at 30000km....would be interesting to see how long it takes someone to get to that if itís only used on the weekends and for a few trips a year!

Much like I use my 690. I've had it for over 4 years and it now has something like 34 000 on the clock. And 30k is their recommendation but I am sure you can almost double that for DS use
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 10, 2018, 08:34:32 am
So a new motor guts at 30000km....would be interesting to see how long it takes someone to get to that if itís only used on the weekends and for a few trips a year!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very long time
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on October 10, 2018, 09:22:01 am
So a new motor guts at 30000km....would be interesting to see how long it takes someone to get to that if itís only used on the weekends and for a few trips a year!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very long time

yeah I'm totally cool with that.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: fixit on October 10, 2018, 11:26:29 am
So a new motor guts at 30000km....would be interesting to see how long it takes someone to get to that if itís only used on the weekends and for a few trips a year!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very long time

For a DS bike? I think it is ridiculous. For the R, yes makes sense, but the L is supposed to be a DS version. i.e long distance as well. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Paydirt on October 10, 2018, 11:41:43 am
So if doing a 1000km+ ride, you'd have to plan your route past a Honda dealer for a service
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on October 10, 2018, 11:57:07 am
You will also have to swing past your proctologist to have it removed from your arse.

It's a dirt bike people. Stop complaining about service intervals
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on October 10, 2018, 12:12:52 pm
You will also have to swing past your proctologist to have it removed from your arse.

It's a dirt bike people. Stop complaining about service intervals

Yes a re-purposed MX bike - the narrow plank seat will definitely eat ass. But the yanks love their Corbin, Seat Concepts, Sargent, Saddleman etc options so no issue there I guess. Really a plated  'woods bike' for the Yanky market.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Damaraland on October 10, 2018, 01:16:57 pm
When I was deciding if I should buy my EXC I was also stressing about oil changes, because my only real frame of reference was the big bikes.

Reality is that an oil + filter change on these sort of bikes really does take the best part of 5 minutes, and most of that is spent waiting for the oil to run out.  And like KTM, I am sure Honda errs on the side of caution when specifying intervals, so in a pinch you'd be able to stretch it without hurting the motor (if you're touring and not wringing its neck). 

If you are seriously considering this class machine - do not let this put you off from buying a bike that will open a new world of riding to you.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 10, 2018, 01:36:07 pm
Honda already has a small lightweight DS bike with 12000km service intervals.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 10, 2018, 01:37:13 pm
Unfortunately it's a bit down on HP and just wont do for most South Africans  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on October 10, 2018, 06:42:01 pm
hou vas, pappa wil jaag   O0
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 10, 2018, 07:01:06 pm
So if doing a 1000km+ ride, you'd have to plan your route past a Honda dealer for a service

Orupembe shop no. one. Looks like Honda agent. :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on October 22, 2018, 12:54:23 pm
The American owners reviewís are looking very positive.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on October 23, 2018, 07:22:30 am
Peak power is 38.21 hp and 7,360 rpm and 28 pound-feet of torque at 6,510 rpm.

https://www.cycleworld.com/how-much-power-does-2019-honda-crf450l-make
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 23, 2018, 08:03:42 am
Peak power is 38.21 hp and 7,360 rpm and 28 pound-feet of torque at 6,510 rpm.

https://www.cycleworld.com/how-much-power-does-2019-honda-crf450l-make
About what a DRZ made, should be lighter though with better gearing.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Meteor on October 23, 2018, 08:42:00 am
Should it be making it's numbers on such high revs?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on October 23, 2018, 08:43:51 am
 :sleepy1:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 23, 2018, 08:53:31 am
Should it be making it's numbers on such high revs?
Yes derived from a racy motor
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Slaaiblaar on October 23, 2018, 08:55:08 am
Peak power is 38.21 hp and 7,360 rpm and 28 pound-feet of torque at 6,510 rpm.

https://www.cycleworld.com/how-much-power-does-2019-honda-crf450l-make

Remember this is horses on wheel

KTM 500 EXC unrestricted with some performance mods does about 50hp on the wheel
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 23, 2018, 08:55:08 am
But with 38hp it's a shame you still have to service it so often. I mean the DRZ was a 400 that you serviced every 5000km and it had the same HP 15 years ago.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Slaaiblaar on October 23, 2018, 09:02:49 am
Dont know if it has been posted, but.....
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Challa on October 23, 2018, 09:51:43 am
But with 38hp it's a shame you still have to service it so often. I mean the DRZ was a 400 that you serviced every 5000km and it had the same HP 15 years ago.

Ditto!

There is still no successor to the XR650L, a bulletproof dualsport that can "do it all", be that commute, a quick hop to the beach or extended adventure with relatively low entry and service costs.

How about a plain jane CRF250L type bike with a bigger engine and more capable supension?

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on October 23, 2018, 10:00:10 am
Guys this isn't bad power at all , considering it is in its full restricted format with quiet silencer and enviromentally friendly emissions , I am sure there are a good few horses which can be unleashed by silencer and inlet , fuelling modifications .
Title: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on October 23, 2018, 01:00:02 pm
A DRZ and XR650 L with all the exhaust and valve mods will not touch this power-wise if it is uncorked, but why are you power hungry now? Was the need not a lightweight bike with enough power to explore and good suspension to take on the worst roads on an adventure ride?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 23, 2018, 03:41:39 pm
What if they took the CRF250L motor made it a 450 or 500 and kept the 10 000km service intervals and as close as possible to 145kg weight, I bet that would also have been close to 38HP and would have lasted 100 000km.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 23, 2018, 03:46:09 pm
The 450 L will sell bucket loads in the US though (main market as well I guess) where you just ride small stretches of road to connect trails.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: intothewild on October 25, 2018, 12:58:13 pm
nice little write up by Adventure specs Dave Lomack

Here:
http://adventure-spec.com/tracks/new-honda-crf450l-tet-ready/?fbclid=IwAR1JkB_v8Z0544t-P0b46gAMwKUCgxalQA_gHgPjiDMNjn_HU6MeVlXNiog

priced at £9500.00 ????
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on October 25, 2018, 03:30:13 pm
Quote
The major service interval for the bike is set at 19000 miles and until that point there is little to do. Replace fuel filters every 3000km, brake fluid every 6000km. Thatís itÖoh, except replace 1.4l of oil (the engine and gearbox oil are now combined) every 1000km?! Perfectly normal for an enduro bike, but not what adventure riders had been hoping for. I spoke to the Honda engineer who designed the engine personally and asked him the spec of the oil (Semi Synthetic) and if he thought the service interval could be extended if I used fully synthetic oil. After some persuasion he suggested that a 2000km service interval would probably be fine. This issue is definitely up for debate and having spoken to other very experienced riders and engineers including Lyndon Poskitt, I now know that if I had a CRF Iíd be extending that interval to 3000km.

I found this bit very interesting. I would be inclined to agree along the lines that the engine is not working at the same intensity when adventure riding as it would during racing conditions.

And if it could really do 3000km of dualsport riding and be happy then this is going to be one very attractive option. That price though, I'm guessing R140-150k, that kills it for me.  :eek7:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on October 25, 2018, 03:34:35 pm
And I reckon he has his hp figures a bit wrong.

This dyno result says approx 39hp on the rear wheel and 88mph top end.  edit: I suspect that is just where it tapered off maybe? So top end might be a little higher.



Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: RobLH on October 25, 2018, 03:44:15 pm
I've read somewhere the Europeans are getting a detuned bike, so his figures may well be applicable.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on October 25, 2018, 03:51:25 pm
I've read somewhere the Europeans are getting a detuned bike, so his figures may well be applicable.

Good point. I suspect with some uncorking it should be close to the CRF450R. Hell, if it can make above 45hp uncorked that would be plenty.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on October 25, 2018, 04:39:31 pm
Few points I have gathered from reading/watching reviews on interweb:

- The Euro version is constricted more and has 25 HP as was originally reported (check the link from intothewild and also check official pages from Europe). IF this bike comes to RSA, I believe it will be sold at the same power as in US - which seems to be about 39 HP
- Oil change was never an issue at least for me (I ride mostly KTM 500). Both of those bikes I feel perfectly confident (and do indeed follow this on my 500) to change oil in 2000 - 3000 km intervals - for dual sporting. The only problem is if you are into warranties and such, then Honda mail force you to stick with the intervals (and probably done at their dealerships) - I don't care about warranties on any of my bikes.
- The uncorking - from everything I've read I believe you will not be able to do much of uncorking for simple reason that the ECU is locked and you cannot change maps. So if you change exhaust o open up airbox, you will run suboptimal mixture (too lean I guess) possibly robbing the bike of power or torque. It is exactly the same for KTMs. Road leagal KTM 500 EXC sold in US and Europe have I believe about 39 HP (though JImmy Lewis - multiple Baja winner on Hondas, commented that seat of the pants the 450L has about third less power than 500 - but maybe he was talking about 500 XCW which is not sold as road legal in US/Europe). ANd EXC ECU is locked and canot be reprogrammed (the US and especially Euro authorities are getting stupidly draconical nowadays.) That said, KTM EXC sold here have the same power as XCW and their ECU can be reprogrammed. So the best you can hope is that Honda is going to do the same, but I doubt it as Honda rarely does something like that.


So with all that said, assuming that 450X can be put on plates here (I suspect Honda may try to prevent that during homologisation) I still don't understand why anybody in their right mind would buy 450L, instead of 450X. 450X is cheaper (though roadworthy kit is going to cost something), has all the same longevity features (6 speed gearbox, 3 piston rings, lower compression compared to R), has the same service intervals, and has much more power. I guess the only thing missing in X is stronger subframe (but I'm yet to break my 500 subframe after 12k km of trying hard with 20 - 30 kgs hanging in the luggage off the back) and LED lights.

Where am I going wrong - why would anybody buy 450L instead of 450X in RSA (assuming it is possible to plate X)?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on October 25, 2018, 08:40:30 pm
I may be wrong here, but as far as I'm aware you can't plate the CRF450X in SA?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on October 25, 2018, 08:49:21 pm
I may be wrong here, but as far as I'm aware you can't plate the CRF450X in SA?

Why not if you can plate 500 XCW, WRs and even YZs (wolf skaap had YZ with added lights plated)? I think Bill the Bong has plated 450X.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on October 25, 2018, 08:55:12 pm
I may be wrong here, but as far as I'm aware you can't plate the CRF450X in SA?

Why not if you can plate 500 XCW, WRs and even YZs (wolf skaap had YZ with added lights plated)? I think Bill the Bong has plated 450X.

I think it has to do with the eNatis papers, I suspect the ktm's and husky don't have the offroad use only clause? I'm sure you could plate almost anything if you jumped through enough hoops end got lucky. I've just hardly ever seen plated CRF450's. Similar to the crf230, that would have made a great light ds bike but they were hard to get road legal if I remember correctly
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on October 25, 2018, 09:02:53 pm
And if Honda SA decides to import the Euro spec 450L it's gonna be like a dead duck try swimming in water. Crazy things have happened in the past like the discontinuance of KLR. XR, DR etc because of emissions control.
Now I'm keen to see which model Honda gets here.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on October 25, 2018, 09:03:40 pm
I may be wrong here, but as far as I'm aware you can't plate the CRF450X in SA?

Why not if you can plate 500 XCW, WRs and even YZs (wolf skaap had YZ with added lights plated)? I think Bill the Bong has plated 450X.

I think it has to do with the eNatis papers, I suspect the ktm's and husky don't have the offroad use only clause? I'm sure you could plate almost anything if you jumped through enough hoops end got lucky. I've just hardly ever seen plated CRF450's. Similar to the crf230, that would have made a great light ds bike but they were hard to get road legal if I remember correctly

Don't know, but as I said, I believe @Bill the Bong  has plated 450X. I think there aren't many of them because the prior generation has only 5 gears (same for WRs) and I think the Unicams weren't particularly reliable. The new ones have the same internals as 450L (not sure about flyweight, but they are trail bikes so should have definitely heavier one compared to Rs), minus all the emission and noise crap. Plus I believe one can change maps on the ECU, unlike on locked L ECU.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on October 25, 2018, 09:06:07 pm
And if Honda SA decides to import the Euro spec 450L it's gonna be like a dead duck try swimming in water. Crazy things have happened in the past like the discontinuance of KLR. XR, DR etc because of emissions control.
Now I'm keen to see which model Honda gets here.

That's for sure, but I'm afraid even US spec one will be tough sell - both here and in USA - because of the price. It is more or less on par with 500, but with less power and Honda buyers traditionally are not keen to spend as much money as KTM buyers.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on October 26, 2018, 08:38:46 am
Interesting take;



Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on October 26, 2018, 09:33:15 am
I don't even need to watch it  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 26, 2018, 09:43:31 am
Interesting take;


This dude that sounds like he escaped from the Wuu Tang Clan rides his SM over a piece of grass and instantly votes the YZ450FX as a better DS bike than the 450 L  :P

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on October 26, 2018, 10:50:16 am
Interesting take;

This dude that sounds like he escaped from the Wuu Tang Clan rides his SM over a piece of grass and instantly votes the YZ450FX as a better DS bike than the 450 L  :P

Come on Jacques - you know better than that. The guy definitely sounds funny, but he never claimed what you are accusing him of: he never mentioned DS - indeed he is clearly into supermoto, and so doesn't care about DS (at least in this video). And yet he raises very valid points why YZ450 makes better sense than 450L - he means for supermoto, but as far as I'm concerned his points are valid even for DS. And his situation is similar to ours I believe, because he in state where you can legaly plate bikes for road use - same as here, or in Australia.

His points:
- Price: 450L signigicantly more expensive out of the door, even once factoring in YZ FX roadworthy costs.
- Weight: YZ FXway lighter than CRFL. Maybe stronger subframe can justify some of that, but did you ever had any problem with your subframe on 525/450s with lugage when you went for trips?
- Power: way lower power on CRFL out of box. And uncorking it is going to be very expensive (buying new ECU - you know Honda is going to charge you for it) and possibly very difficult (Honda may try to net make those ECUs easily available).

The advantages CRFL has over YZ FX for DS (which he didn't mention as they are not so important for supermoto) is 6 gears and stronger subframe. The clear choice IMO = CRFX. Combines all the benefits YZ FX and CRFL (ok, except the stronger subframe).

Unlike most people on this forum or even thread who do not have experience with this category - you have actually used extensively plated enduros for DS (DRZ, 525, wasn't there even old CRF?). You are also pretty cost conscious. So please tell me, would you buy CRFL over CRFX (leaving aside other options on the market to let the brand loyal dogs sleep)? And if so why?

Not trying to put you into spotlight, just genuinely interested why somebody would go for CRFL in SA given other options available - at the end of the day I may be missing something here. And as you have used this category extensively for DS I really do value your opinion on this.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on October 26, 2018, 11:11:53 am
Interesting take;

This dude that sounds like he escaped from the Wuu Tang Clan rides his SM over a piece of grass and instantly votes the YZ450FX as a better DS bike than the 450 L  :P

Come on Jacques - you know better than that. The guy definitely sounds funny, but he never claimed what you are accusing him of: he never mentioned DS - indeed he is clearly into supermoto, and so doesn't care about DS (at least in this video). And yet he raises very valid points why YZ450 makes better sense than 450L - he means for supermoto, but as far as I'm concerned his points are valid even for DS. And his situation is similar to ours I believe, because he in state where you can legaly plate bikes for road use - same as here, or in Australia.

His points:
- Price: 450L signigicantly more expensive out of the door, even once factoring in YZ FX roadworthy costs.
- Weight: YZ FXway lighter than CRFL. Maybe stronger subframe can justify some of that, but did you ever had any problem with your subframe on 525/450s with lugage when you went for trips?
- Power: way lower power on CRFL out of box. And uncorking it is going to be very expensive (buying new ECU - you know Honda is going to charge you for it) and possibly very difficult (Honda may try to net make those ECUs easily available).

The advantages CRFL has over YZ FX for DS (which he didn't mention as they are not so important for supermoto) is 6 gears and stronger subframe. The clear choice IMO = CRFX. Combines all the benefits YZ FX and CRFL (ok, except the stronger subframe).

Unlike most people on this forum or even thread who do not have experience with this category - you have actually used extensively plated enduros for DS (DRZ, 525, wasn't there even old CRF?). You are also pretty cost conscious. So please tell me, would you buy CRFL over CRFX (leaving aside other options on the market to let the brand loyal dogs sleep)? And if so why?

Not trying to put you into spotlight, just genuinely interested why somebody would go for CRFL in SA given other options available - at the end of the day I may be missing something here. And as you have used this category extensively for DS I really do value your opinion on this.

One thing you are missing is that in SA we would buy the WR450 and not the FX, which already has the lights etc etc. In the States that WR has a different ECU to the one here and is also corked up, that's why this guy went for the FX.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 26, 2018, 11:59:14 am
Interesting take;

This dude that sounds like he escaped from the Wuu Tang Clan rides his SM over a piece of grass and instantly votes the YZ450FX as a better DS bike than the 450 L  :P

Come on Jacques - you know better than that. The guy definitely sounds funny, but he never claimed what you are accusing him of: he never mentioned DS - indeed he is clearly into supermoto, and so doesn't care about DS (at least in this video). And yet he raises very valid points why YZ450 makes better sense than 450L - he means for supermoto, but as far as I'm concerned his points are valid even for DS. And his situation is similar to ours I believe, because he in state where you can legaly plate bikes for road use - same as here, or in Australia.

His points:
- Price: 450L signigicantly more expensive out of the door, even once factoring in YZ FX roadworthy costs.
- Weight: YZ FXway lighter than CRFL. Maybe stronger subframe can justify some of that, but did you ever had any problem with your subframe on 525/450s with lugage when you went for trips?
- Power: way lower power on CRFL out of box. And uncorking it is going to be very expensive (buying new ECU - you know Honda is going to charge you for it) and possibly very difficult (Honda may try to net make those ECUs easily available).

The advantages CRFL has over YZ FX for DS (which he didn't mention as they are not so important for supermoto) is 6 gears and stronger subframe. The clear choice IMO = CRFX. Combines all the benefits YZ FX and CRFL (ok, except the stronger subframe).

Unlike most people on this forum or even thread who do not have experience with this category - you have actually used extensively plated enduros for DS (DRZ, 525, wasn't there even old CRF?). You are also pretty cost conscious. So please tell me, would you buy CRFL over CRFX (leaving aside other options on the market to let the brand loyal dogs sleep)? And if so why?

Not trying to put you into spotlight, just genuinely interested why somebody would go for CRFL in SA given other options available - at the end of the day I may be missing something here. And as you have used this category extensively for DS I really do value your opinion on this.
I have never ridden any new FX, X or L obviously but to me it would be a no brainer I would take the L. As much as I'm a fan of going light for DS I would go for the factory ready bike like the L. There is a good base to build on, street legal already, proper electrical system, better lights, sub frame etc. You can also bet that in the coming months there will be a plethora of aftermarket tanks and accessories available maybe even a power up yet the quoted power does not bother me too much, show me how many riders will be able to use  the 500's or FX's extra HP over a L in DS use. My CRF 450X I did take on trips although it was never roadworthy. I found it extremely tiring to ride, the forks were very harsh especially on rocks and was an absolute waste cruising down a dirt road. It was a race bike full stop. The YZ 450 of Pierre I found very peaky and not as easy to ride slowly as you would do now and again for DS use. Both had 5 gears, not good. The 525 was the best of the bunch but we cant really compare that bike to the new breed. The assurance of knowing that in some little way at least Honda planned that you can go do both dirt and street with the L would mean it would be much easier to live with. As you know I know have a 24HP not so light little dual sport but have found myself riding more than ever before for the simple fact that I can do street and just about any off road terrain on it. In some way the L would be the same although with more frequent oil changes. Riding a X or YZ just small sections to get to the good stuff is a waste of bike imho and I don't trailer .The price is a sticky point though if it will be the same as a KTM 500 it's dead in the water especially in SA.

So in short I would rather buy a CRF450L over a CRF450X, WR450F or YZ450FX and create a Frankenstein in the garage. Between a KTM 500 and CRF450L now that would be tough. The guys comparison is flawed. He would have been better off to compare the FX to a RWE both on SM tyres  :P
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on October 26, 2018, 02:35:49 pm
Cool, thanks.

If the price would have been significantly lower i could see your point.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on October 26, 2018, 02:55:40 pm
As XPat mentions, I have a plated X. Had to get it done for Amageza.  Although I love my X and Hondas in general, a KTM 500 could be had for R62 - 65k 2nd hand. That makes it the perfect DS
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on October 27, 2018, 06:40:55 am
Well why not wait for the bike to arrive and be properly evaluated , I have seen a few positive tests on the bike already , but at the moment everyone is bitching , moaning and drawing assumptions without anyone having ridden the bike .
As far as the guy with the SM , why didn't he compare the YZ450FX against the CRF450RX , that is the same class of bike , most certainly not the CRF450L .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on October 27, 2018, 07:28:34 am
Donald, jy is reg. Die ouens skop n klomp stof op, gebasseer op popcorn feite.
Wag vir die real mccoy.....
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on October 27, 2018, 10:59:02 am
En hy kom binnekort  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on October 27, 2018, 11:38:58 am
En hy kom binnekort  :thumleft:

It's a Honda so it's bound to be a boring turd.  :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on October 27, 2018, 04:11:19 pm
Lets see Dave , lets see , if I get the opportunity to try it out I will let you know  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on October 27, 2018, 11:51:35 pm
Cool, thanks.

If the price would have been significantly lower i could see your point.
Who knows what it's going to cost here, I have heard Honda uses something simular to the Big Mac index to work out prices for each country so it may end up cheaper here than elsewhere.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dwerg on November 06, 2018, 07:25:47 am
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on November 06, 2018, 08:02:29 am
Looking at EICMA so far the 450L does not look like a bad offering at all
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on November 06, 2018, 08:41:59 am
Looking at EICMA so far the 450L does not look like a bad offering at all

And pray what else is being offered at EICMA in the light DS market to make it look like a good side dish?  ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on November 06, 2018, 08:45:30 am
Looking at EICMA so far the 450L does not look like a bad offering at all

And pray what else is being offered at EICMA in the light DS market to make it look like a good side dish?  ::)
Nothing so that makes it unique. At least it's road legal from the showroom and has enough suspension travel not to belly flop on Starbucks kerb
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on November 06, 2018, 01:32:49 pm
Looking at EICMA so far the 450L does not look like a bad offering at all

And pray what else is being offered at EICMA in the light DS market to make it look like a good side dish?  ::)
Nothing so that makes it unique. At least it's road legal from the showroom and has enough suspension travel not to belly flop on Starbucks kerb

Not sure it will have enough grunt to lift that wheel onto the curb at News Cafe  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on November 06, 2018, 01:33:15 pm

Good review
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on November 07, 2018, 10:09:13 pm
Don't have the data to watch the clip, in short what do they say please?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Piet on November 07, 2018, 11:18:08 pm
Don't have the data to watch the clip, in short what do they say please?
Die bike is road-legal, dis die eerste performance-dual-sport (soos wat KTM en Husky bied) van Japan af.

2.0 Gallon titanium fuel tank op Honda, IMS sal 'n 3.0 gallon tank vrystel
Husky het 2.5 Gallon tank

Honda - $10400
Husky - $11300

Hydraulic clutch op Husky, Cable clutch op Honda
Meeste fisiese specs is eenders, Husky het so 20mm meer ground clearance

Vir street-use het die Honda dampened plastic engine covers om engine noise en vibrasie te verminder, albei sprockets is dampened, urethane-filled swingarm. Husky het niks daarvan nie.

Off road:
Husky se suspension is baie beter as die vorige jaar se Husky. Husky het swak rear fender assembly.
Honda se rear fender en license plate mount is baie stewig met alu subframe. Good finishing overall.
Honda het baie min vibrasie, maar is bietjie undersprung itv suspension.

Husky se enjin is linear - slow to rev.
Honda is se enjin is lewendig, quick to rev, fun. Nie baie smooth op die pad nie.

Honda sal great wees vir commute met trails tussenin. Husky bly die keuse vir wilde trails en die noodgedwonge pad-ryery om by die trails uit te kom.

Overall is hulle gelukkig met die Honda.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: blauth on November 08, 2018, 07:19:11 am
They mentioned the lack of hand guards but what they didn't mention in that review is the quality of the Honda handlebars. KTM come with a decent set of fat bars but Honda traditionally have cheap steel handlebars.

The Honda wins on the quality of the lights being LED units all around.

Watching the videos, the suspension on the Honda is quite far behind the Husky.

I can't recall them talking about weight but I think the Husky is significantly lighter too.

They also talked about the engine characteristics. The Husky vibrates more but the power delivery is smoother and more tractor like whereas the Honda has more of the typical 450 punch, reving up a bit quicker but not as tractable as the Husky.

A good review overall   :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on November 08, 2018, 07:22:49 am
They mentioned the lack of hand guards but what they didn't mention in that review is the quality of the Honda handlebars. KTM come with a decent set of fat bars but Honda traditionally have cheap steel handlebars.

The Honda wins on the quality of the lights being LED units all around.

Watching the videos, the suspension on the Honda is quite far behind the Husky.

I can't recall them talking about weight but I think the Husky is significantly lighter too.

They also talked about the engine characteristics. The Husky vibrates more but the power delivery is smoother and more tractor like whereas the Honda has more of the typical 450 punch, reving up a bit quicker but not as tractable as the Husky.

A good review overall   :thumleft:
The 450L comes stock with Renthals so should be just fine although not a fat bar
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on November 08, 2018, 07:40:56 am
Is it clear yet what the service intervals will be for sa market?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on November 10, 2018, 09:18:47 pm
and the Rally version


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on November 10, 2018, 11:38:53 pm
and the Rally version


Hot bike !
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Platte on November 26, 2018, 09:43:19 pm
Wanneer beoog honda sa om die 450L in te bring
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 04, 2018, 10:18:02 am
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on December 04, 2018, 02:38:46 pm
Assumption is that they find the Honda boring but reliable  :biggrin:

I like the 'Alpha male' statement of the EXCF500  :lol8: Still stink is is one of the best ds bikes and will buy one in a flash if I could.

That Beta looks lekker as well, pity we dont get them here anymore.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on December 05, 2018, 09:44:03 am
Pricing going to be around the R120k mark
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Battlestar on December 05, 2018, 08:54:06 pm
Pricing going to be around the R120k mark
Yup I heard R126k from a dealer

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on December 06, 2018, 11:40:13 am
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 06, 2018, 11:44:20 am
Pricing going to be around the R120k mark
Yup I heard R126k from a dealer
At half of that price a low km 250 Rally demo sounds like a good deal now.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on December 06, 2018, 11:48:14 am
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Slaaiblaar on December 06, 2018, 01:25:08 pm
Just out of interest, what makes this bike so much better that a 2009 WR450F. You can buy a street legal one for R35 000 with +/- 5000km on them. 5 gears but I do not see a problem with that.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: IanTheTooth on December 08, 2018, 10:19:35 am
I had a look at one and a spin on their demo at a Honda dealer in Mackay, Queensland. Salesman says they are pitched at the guys who are tired of fiddling with the valves on their WR450's. Sells here for equivalent R120,000, Honda says you won't need to take off an engine casing until 33,000km. but you'll be advised to change the oil every 1000km. Lithium battery, 7 litre tank and WEIGHS AN ABSOLUTE TON! I wouldn't take it on a challenging ride. It is about as heavy as a DRZ which is  R40,000 less but to get an EXC or Husky 501 here you pay a luxury tax and you will pay R160,000. Lot of KTM's being sold here.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 08, 2018, 11:47:27 am
I had a look at one and a spin on their demo at a Honda dealer in Mackay, Queensland. Salesman says they are pitched at the guys who are tired of fiddling with the valves on their WR450's. Sells here for equivalent R120,000, Honda says you won't need to take off an engine casing until 33,000km. but you'll be advised to change the oil every 1000km. Lithium battery, 7 litre tank and WEIGHS AN ABSOLUTE TON! I wouldn't take it on a challenging ride. It is about as heavy as a DRZ which is  R40,000 less but to get an EXC or Husky 501 here you pay a luxury tax and you will pay R160,000. Lot of KTM's being sold here.
I understand these CRFís uses titanium valves that was the biggest drawback of the 450X as it needed constant adjustment so hope these will be better.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 08, 2018, 12:59:23 pm
Just out of interest, what makes this bike so much better that a 2009 WR450F. You can buy a street legal one for R35 000 with +/- 5000km on them. 5 gears but I do not see a problem with that.
Nothing.
I would only upgrade to a newer 4valve wr.

The more I read about this 450L, the bigger my disliking for it becomes.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: adv on December 09, 2018, 11:38:18 am
Just out of interest, what makes this bike so much better that a 2009 WR450F. You can buy a street legal one for R35 000 with +/- 5000km on them. 5 gears but I do not see a problem with that.

Speaking out my ass here.

I think ... longer service life and it has been detuned. It much more of a new age DRZ than a full-blown enduro bike.

When I had my WR I changed the oil every 1000km. On my XRR I actually do the same.

The power also does not look that exciting, after riding the XRR mostly everything feels like it has no torque.


Ideally what you want is a long-range 6 speed gearbox. Both my WR and XRR Frustrated me in this regard.  Come to think of it,  MY SM610 had a nice 6speed box.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on December 09, 2018, 11:56:21 am
Just out of interest, what makes this bike so much better that a 2009 WR450F. You can buy a street legal one for R35 000 with +/- 5000km on them. 5 gears but I do not see a problem with that.

Speaking out my ass here.

I think ... longer service life and it has been detuned. It much more of a new age DRZ than a full-blown enduro bike.

When I had my WR I changed the oil every 1000km. On my XRR I actually do the same.

The power also does not look that exciting, after riding the XRR mostly everything feels like it has no torque.


Ideally what you want is a long-range 6 speed gearbox. Both my WR and XRR Frustrated me in this regard.  Come to think of it,  MY SM610 had a nice 6speed box.

A lot of us were upset when the drz gone off the market in SA.
If this is a similar bike and a tad better which I'm sure it is it is going to be pretty popular.

The Alpha male bike  :lol8: is the Ktm500/Husky. The Honda will suit me fine I'm sure.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 09, 2018, 12:10:35 pm
I get your point.
It seems like it will cost the same as the 500 +/-

It will not hold its value as good though.
Only option is to buy new where the 500's are a plenty 2nd hand and proven to be reliable even as 2nd hand bikes.

I believe the dealer support is much better for ktm than honda?

So you will have to wait for some honda fanboy willing to lose 50% of his investment in 2 years and then in year 3 you can buy one.

I call that a stretch.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: intothewild on December 10, 2018, 09:50:17 pm
are they here yet? were they not supposed to be in SA end of november? 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: IDR on December 11, 2018, 07:25:42 am


Seems this is the 25hp version though...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 07:50:52 am
I read a article yesterday where they had a QA session with Honda regarding this bike
Seems the power output was incorrectly given, showing the 250 output.
They said its somewhere in the 40hp range
Not sure if that is true or not
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 11, 2018, 08:02:47 am
Something that quite a few people are not taking into consideration is that the CRF is also legal in California , while not applicable to us what it does mean is that it meets stringent noise and emissions standards being equipped as it is with a catalytic converter and extra items to keep noise down , something that the KTM's and Husky's don't . However what it also means is that it leaves open more possibilities for power increases and weight dropping .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 08:06:35 am
I read a article yesterday where they had a QA session with Honda regarding this bike
Seems the power output was incorrectly given, showing the 250 output.
They said its somewhere in the 40hp range
Not sure if that is true or not

No and yes. This bike has 25 hp in its european version as is stipulated clearly by Honda (and has been all along). European version is for some reason more restricted than versions sold outside - eg. US main market for this, where the only thing Honda hints is that the power is in the 40s. By now there were dynos made by customers in US and I believe they came to about 39 HP (not sure if rear wheel or crank).

I have to say this example clearly shows that Honda must be employing some particularly brain dead marketing people. The only officially announced power number is the one that is clearly going to put this bike in a doubt (I seriously doubt any significant number of people are going to buy this in Europe), but then refuse to put official number on more appealing version in markets this bike is actually aimed at. Maybe european legislation requires to publish official power numbers and the rest of the world doesn't, but I still find it stupid as it overshadowed the whole release of this bike.

If this bike is released in SA, the question is which power version it is going to be - I believe it will be the US one. Still, at the same price as 500, one would have to be a serious Honda lover to buy this thing over 500/501, which is better in all aspects (power, weight) with possible exception of suspension (and even there the difference will be marginal).

And I'm not saying this as 500 owner - the only reason I hand on a Honda thread is because I had hopes for this bike as being a viable alternative to 500/501, which in its current dumbed down form it isn't. Maybe CRF450X is.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 08:07:07 am
ZA bikers article and pricing at the bottom..
http://www.zabikers.co.za/2018/12/10/honda-motorcycles-southern-africa-proud-announce-arrival-2019-crf450l/?fbclid=IwAR2XHouw5rryl2PzEnpcTXtCrBKLcCiXh1pKwD5AVDi8dp6LxTHRNtMf648 (http://www.zabikers.co.za/2018/12/10/honda-motorcycles-southern-africa-proud-announce-arrival-2019-crf450l/?fbclid=IwAR2XHouw5rryl2PzEnpcTXtCrBKLcCiXh1pKwD5AVDi8dp6LxTHRNtMf648)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 08:08:00 am
Something that quite a few people are not taking into consideration is that the CRF is also legal in California , while not applicable to us what it does mean is that it meets stringent noise and emissions standards being equipped as it is with a catalytic converter and extra items to keep noise down , something that the KTM's and Husky's don't . However what it also means is that it leaves open more possibilities for power increases and weight dropping .

As far as I know KTM and Husky - in their choked up form with less HP than here - were the only 50 state legal bikes before this bike was released. Get your facts straight - Honda is actually playing catch up here, not leading anything.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 08:11:25 am
Pricing around R125k
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 11, 2018, 08:15:35 am
Something that quite a few people are not taking into consideration is that the CRF is also legal in California , while not applicable to us what it does mean is that it meets stringent noise and emissions standards being equipped as it is with a catalytic converter and extra items to keep noise down , something that the KTM's and Husky's don't . However what it also means is that it leaves open more possibilities for power increases and weight dropping .

As far as I know KTM and Husky - in their choked up form with less HP than here - were the only 50 state legal bikes before this bike was released. Get your facts straight - Honda is actually playing catch up here, not leading anything.

The KTM's and Husky's were only 49 state legal for street use , in California it was off road competition use only .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on December 11, 2018, 08:17:59 am


Seems this is the 25hp version though...

I hate these reports from road riding journo's absolutely useless to us.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 08:18:26 am


No and yes. This bike has 25 hp in its european version as is stipulated clearly by Honda (and has been all along). European version is for some reason more restricted than versions sold outside - eg. US main market for this, where the only thing Honda hints is that the power is in the 40s. By now there were dynos made by customers in US and I believe they came to about 39 HP (not sure if rear wheel or crank).


This is the article I read:
http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/ (http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/)

Extract:
There was a rumor going around that this bike only made 24 hp and we can say that is completely false. It looks like a European Honda site mistakenly posted the CRF250Lís hp number for the 450Lís. We asked Honda for a publishable HP number for the 450L and they said it was in the 40s. For dirt bikes, Honda (all OEMís actually) donít give out HP numbers since there are so many variables in dynoíing the bikes. Also, Honda added that there is only a 4 hp difference between the X and L and that the cams and cam timing are exactly the same.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 08:20:52 am
Something that quite a few people are not taking into consideration is that the CRF is also legal in California , while not applicable to us what it does mean is that it meets stringent noise and emissions standards being equipped as it is with a catalytic converter and extra items to keep noise down , something that the KTM's and Husky's don't . However what it also means is that it leaves open more possibilities for power increases and weight dropping .

As far as I know KTM and Husky - in their choked up form with less HP than here - were the only 50 state legal bikes before this bike was released. Get your facts straight - Honda is actually playing catch up here, not leading anything.

The KTM's and Husky's were only 49 state legal for street use , in California it was off road competition use only .

Nope, the only 50 state street legal bikes: https://dirtbikemagazine.com/2019-ktm-dual-sport-bikes/ (https://dirtbikemagazine.com/2019-ktm-dual-sport-bikes/) (the section about 4 strokes).
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 08:31:28 am


No and yes. This bike has 25 hp in its european version as is stipulated clearly by Honda (and has been all along). European version is for some reason more restricted than versions sold outside - eg. US main market for this, where the only thing Honda hints is that the power is in the 40s. By now there were dynos made by customers in US and I believe they came to about 39 HP (not sure if rear wheel or crank).


This is the article I read:
http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/ (http://www.advpulse.com/adv-bikes/things-to-know-honda-crf450l/)

Extract:
There was a rumor going around that this bike only made 24 hp and we can say that is completely false. It looks like a European Honda site mistakenly posted the CRF250Lís hp number for the 450Lís. We asked Honda for a publishable HP number for the 450L and they said it was in the 40s. For dirt bikes, Honda (all OEMís actually) donít give out HP numbers since there are so many variables in dynoíing the bikes. Also, Honda added that there is only a 4 hp difference between the X and L and that the cams and cam timing are exactly the same.

That is what you get for following website that somebody makes in their mothers basement. The 25 HP for Europe holds - I know I'm from there and have seen reviews as well as official Honda numbers (now it is true that in US it has more, but that Euro number holds). Here is just one review from UK just as an example (you can find many more using google-fu):

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/honda/crf450l/2019/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/honda/crf450l/2019/)

Now this all is irrelevant if they bring US version here as I believe they will. But seeing they are pricing it higher here than 500 (at less than 124k) - on all other markets they at least made sure they are few 100 USD less (not enough though) all I can do is wish them good luck.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: intothewild on December 11, 2018, 08:34:29 am
officially from honda sa with price

http://www.zabikers.co.za/2018/12/10/honda-motorcycles-southern-africa-proud-announce-arrival-2019-crf450l/
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 08:56:01 am

That is what you get for following website that somebody makes in their mothers basement. The 25 HP for Europe holds - I know I'm from there and have seen reviews as well as official Honda numbers (now it is true that in US it has more, but that Euro number holds). Here is just one review from UK just as an example (you can find many more using google-fu):

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/honda/crf450l/2019/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/honda/crf450l/2019/)

Now this all is irrelevant if they bring US version here as I believe they will. But seeing they are pricing it higher here than 500 (at less than 124k) - on all other markets they at least made sure they are few 100 USD less (not enough though) all I can do is wish them good luck.

Irrelevant as you say

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on December 11, 2018, 09:13:07 am
I get your point.
It seems like it will cost the same as the 500 +/-

It will not hold its value as good though.
Only option is to buy new where the 500's are a plenty 2nd hand and proven to be reliable even as 2nd hand bikes.

I believe the dealer support is much better for ktm than honda?

So you will have to wait for some honda fanboy willing to lose 50% of his investment in 2 years and then in year 3 you can buy one.

I call that a stretch.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk



Dealership service is subjective .. anyone on a forum knows that  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 09:17:06 am

Dealership service is subjective .. anyone on a forum knows that  :peepwall:

Completely... If I had to compare the service I got from a KTM dealer.. I wont recommend anyone every buying or going to KTM dealers ever.. sour taste in the mouth episode that was
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 11, 2018, 09:22:02 am
Don't want to turn this into a dealership thread but to answer you question; .

My subjective opinion is that Gauteng has very few Honda dealerships and most of them employ people that don't know much about bikes.

RAD has been the best official dealership I have ever dealt with.

Best unofficial dealership will always be off-road cycles Koedoespoort

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on December 11, 2018, 09:26:34 am
Best unofficial dealership will always be off-road cycles Koedoespoort

I hear they do great discounts?  :peepwall:


I really think there is a market for this bike and it is going to sell.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Challa on December 11, 2018, 09:34:27 am
Quoted from the article

Quote 1

"The six-speed gearbox, spread of torque and power, reduced compression ratio and cush-drive damped rear wheel are all aimed at the hobby enduro rider rather than those who want a Ďcrosser with lights. Still, oil services come every 600 miles, and itíll need a full rebuild at 20,000 miles.
"


Quote 2

"Despite the lack of outright bhp, the strong torque figure makes it an engaging and entertaining ride. Itíll burble along in first, second or third gear, but is also happy to be revved.

When seeing the spec sheet of the 450L many thought that there had been a mistake on the bhp figure. Honda claim 24bhp, which is practically the same as the 250L and around 20bhp less than you would expect from a modern 450cc single. But there is no mistake, to increase service intervals and meet strict Euro4 regulations 24bhp is all you have.

But before you lose interest and dismiss it as a non-starter, torque is a respectable 23.6ft/lb which is significantly higher than the Honda CRF250L and is key to its real world performance and living with it day-to-day.

There is a heavier crank with a 13% more inertia and this along with revised fuel injection and valve timing makes for smoother Ė less intimidating power delivery. Compression is down to 12:1 from 13.5:1 of the MX model.

It's also incredibly quiet which is a huge bonus for UK green laning. Another bonus is the six speed gear box, with 6th gear acting like an overdrive for road work giving the potential to sit comfortably at 70mph."




Are there any official specs for the service intervals and service items at the given intervals for the 25 HP Euro version.Two bits of information the same article seem to be at odds with one another.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 09:44:17 am
They are just cooking out of water, looking for positives where they are difficult to come by. The service intervals are as stated in the article - you can download official CRF450l service manual, here is copy of maintenance schedule:

http://www.hondaprokevin.com/pictures/maintenance-schedule/honda-CRF450L-maintenance-schedule-oil-changes-service-engine-specs.jpg (http://www.hondaprokevin.com/pictures/maintenance-schedule/honda-CRF450L-maintenance-schedule-oil-changes-service-engine-specs.jpg)

(http://www.hondaprokevin.com/pictures/maintenance-schedule/honda-CRF450L-maintenance-schedule-oil-changes-service-engine-specs.jpg)

That said, this service interval thing is blown out of proportion - Honda is just covering their ass. My 500 has 15 hours official oil change interval, and I stretch it merrily to every 1500 - 3000 km depending on what trip I'm on. And my bike is on 13500km in year of riding and going stronger than ever with no sign of top end trouble which supposedly should have been iminent. There is guy going on 500 around the world (stupid use of the bike if you ask me) and he did top end at 75k km.

I'm pretty critical of this bike as if falls short in many accounts against its competition, but service intervals isn't one of them. If you are into 10k km service intervals, you are looking at the wrong bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 09:54:14 am

I'm pretty critical of this bike as if falls short in many accounts against its competition, but service intervals isn't one of them. If you are into 10k km service intervals, you are looking at the wrong bike.

I am trying to figure out, standard off the showroom floor, no extra bits fitted to make it road legal.. what exactly is the competition for this one?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 09:58:47 am

I'm pretty critical of this bike as if falls short in many accounts against its competition, but service intervals isn't one of them. If you are into 10k km service intervals, you are looking at the wrong bike.

I am trying to figure out, standard off the showroom floor, no extra bits fitted to make it road legal.. what exactly is the competition for this one?

We have been talking about it for many pages - ktm500/ husky 501. Ktm 500 EXC version comes with all the bits installed I think and if you want and dealer will plate it for you as they did for me (and I had non legal XCW version that needed roadworthy kit added). I believe even WR450 can be plated. What difference does it make adding the kit on? Its just few grand (which will bring it more or less to the price of this bike) and done by dealer (if you buy new)?

It is actually exactly the other way around - you will buy this CRF450 and then begin arduous route of stripping it of all that unnecessary BS that makes heavy and underpowered. You are better off buying CRF450X and get it plated by dealer.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on December 11, 2018, 10:19:45 am


We have been talking about it for many pages - ktm500/ husky 501. Ktm 500 EXC version comes with all the bits installed I think and if you want and dealer will plate it for you as they did for me (and I had non legal XCW version that needed roadworthy kit added). I believe even WR450 can be plated. What difference does it make adding the kit on? Its just few grand (which will bring it more or less to the price of this bike) and done by dealer (if you buy new)?

It is actually exactly the other way around - you will buy this CRF450 and then begin arduous route of stripping it of all that unnecessary BS that makes heavy and underpowered. You are better off buying CRF450X and get it plated by dealer.

Well it makes a difference from a design point of view. The 450X would then be a good comparison to a 500/501. Bikes that could potentially be plated, but wasnt designed from the ground up to be compliant with emissions etc.
The changes they made to the L was from the outset to make it compliant with all the rules and regulations for road use. In doing that, they had to make compromises.

It does sit in a strange spectrum as they try and call it an adventure bike, but it isnt.
Look, I am not trying to defend it. I do like the concept of it but you will have to use keep in mind the heritage and what your intended use for such a bike is
I personally think they missed the point a bit and could have made it..not sure what the right words are.. had the service intervals been less racing spec etc, to fit in with their idea of a purpose made dual sport it would have made more sense to me

So in that way I do agree.. you might as well just buy the RX.. well the one we dont get in SA, and plate it. For cheaper
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: IanTheTooth on December 11, 2018, 12:17:30 pm
Going round the block on one the power felt about right for it's capacity but these things can be deceptive. Iain's 500exc felt much more civilized and well mannered than the specs would suggest. The Honda lived up to the salesman's boast, I could easily drive it to work all week with only the uncomfortable seat reminding me of the compromise and it feels just great on tar and the front lawn of the dealer and you don't run out of gears like an enduro bike BUT try and lift it up and you will realize this is not a serious extreme adventure bike like the KTM.

PS certainly not R40,000 better than the DRZ
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 01:42:32 pm
@Mpandla : Sorry, the design angle is complete red herring in the vein of those journos desperately looking for positives and coming up with those "24 HP justified by extended service interval / 600 miles oil change" gems. This bike wasn't designed from ground up to be legal - internally it is fully CRF450X with plastics bits and bobs bolted on top to minimise noise - the engine, suspension, transmission are all the same, with possible difference in EFI map). So the changes are more or less cosmetic and not fundamental and of course make the bike heavier and more expensive.

But all that doesn't matter from end user perspective. Bottom line is - its target market is street legal dirt bike, which is exactly what 500/501 (and indeed whole KTM 4stroke range in USA) are as they are all 50 sates street legal (and KTM has been for a while, while for example WR450 isn't even today). So they are direct competitors regardless whether feng shui was used during the design or not.

From where I sit Honda could have done two things, both of which would have put it in much better position than this thing:
- Option 1: Compete full on with KTM (which until now owns on its own the street legal dirt bike market) - i.e. take CRF450X (heck or even drill it to 500 to get more grunt) and make the absolute minimum changes for it to pass as 50 state road legal. Offer it at 20-30k (or the equivalent in USD) less than 500, and they have very compelling proposition. Adding too much weight and expense by overbuilding the streel legal aspect of course goes directly against this.
- Option 2: Build economical all round workhorse in the vein of old XRs/XTs, that one can commute on every day, then take it bundu bashing over weekend and few times a year do a nice trip with mates. Minimum maintenance (i.e. long service intervals), and very friendly purchasing price facilitated by using cheaper components (specifically suspension - heck on this kind of bike I would actually use right side up suspension instead of up side down as it lasts much longer and requires less maintenance). I think this is what most Honda fans on this thread were hoping for and I believe would give Honda great product for at least decade ahead (as was the case with XRs).

Heck, they could have even build both of those. But as it stands they came up with a weirdo that doesn't fit anywhere.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Challa on December 11, 2018, 02:19:12 pm
@Mpandla : Sorry, the design angle is complete red herring in the vein of those journos desperately looking for positives and coming up with those "24 HP justified by extended service interval / 600 miles oil change" gems. This bike wasn't designed from ground up to be legal - internally it is fully CRF450X with plastics bits and bobs bolted on top to minimise noise - the engine, suspension, transmission are all the same, with possible difference in EFI map). So the changes are more or less cosmetic and not fundamental and of course make the bike heavier and more expensive.

But all that doesn't matter from end user perspective. Bottom line is - its target market is street legal dirt bike, which is exactly what 500/501 (and indeed whole KTM 4stroke range in USA) are as they are all 50 sates street legal (and KTM has been for a while, while for example WR450 isn't even today). So they are direct competitors regardless whether feng shui was used during the design or not.

From where I sit Honda could have done two things, both of which would have put it in much better position than this thing:
- Option 1: Compete full on with KTM (which until now owns on its own the street legal dirt bike market) - i.e. take CRF450X (heck or even drill it to 500 to get more grunt) and make the absolute minimum changes for it to pass as 50 state road legal. Offer it at 20-30k (or the equivalent in USD) less than 500, and they have very compelling proposition. Adding too much weight and expense by overbuilding the streel legal aspect of course goes directly against this.
- Option 2: Build economical all round workhorse in the vein of old XRs/XTs, that one can commute on every day, then take it bundu bashing over weekend and few times a year do a nice trip with mates. Minimum maintenance (i.e. long service intervals), and very friendly purchasing price facilitated by using cheaper components (specifically suspension - heck on this kind of bike I would actually use right side up suspension instead of up side down as it lasts much longer and requires less maintenance). I think this is what most Honda fans on this thread were hoping for and I believe would give Honda great product for at least decade ahead (as was the case with XRs).

Heck, they could have even build both of those. But as it stands they came up with a weirdo that doesn't fit anywhere.

It is not just a Honda thing. I don't see any of the Japanese manufacturers building logical successors to their old 600/650 thumpers. Eventually, the emission controls monster will come for them.

Maybe the "dualsport" doesn't exist anymore or the definition has changed so much it's unrecognizable.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 11, 2018, 02:29:15 pm
Yes the Japanese are dead in this segment - they just gave up, I think they all turned into herbivour men. Euros are luckily still trying - I'm enjoying my 500 - which is what Honda was trying to do with this 450 -  immensely.

But I can hear the bells of doom as well - I believe in 15 - 20 years time there will be nothing in this segment, unless electric bikes make huge strides forward. The way the things are going - I'd rather be on electric mountain bike then, than on motorcycle...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on December 11, 2018, 02:30:34 pm
Honda Tygerberg will receive stock NEXT WEEK of their CRF 450L, just the one for now (don't shoot the messenger), presumably a DEMO bike, unsure, will post more here when known...


Cheers, Chris
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 11, 2018, 08:16:30 pm
This bike makes no sense to me.
They are decades behind ktm.
The first 520 exc was released in 98!

So 20 yeas later, they decide to release a heavier, slower 520 competitor with the same service intervals?

But settled for the same old cable actuated, shitty clutch.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on December 12, 2018, 05:40:46 pm
It would have made more sense if they had taken the chassis and running gear of the 450 L and then put in a 500cc big bore version of the 250L engine with 12K service intervals.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 12, 2018, 05:52:21 pm
It would have made more sense if they had taken the chassis and running gear of the 450 L and then put in a 500cc big bore version of the 250L engine with 12K service intervals.
Agree 100%, would make a great base for the 450 Rally then as well.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2-Stroke on December 13, 2018, 03:15:17 pm
More:

https://thebikeshow.co.za/the-honda-cfr450l-is-coming-to-south-africa-and-soon/
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on December 13, 2018, 03:19:11 pm
Also just come across it but you beat me to it :)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 13, 2018, 03:21:39 pm
So R125 000 it is
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 13, 2018, 03:27:20 pm
More:

https://thebikeshow.co.za/the-honda-cfr450l-is-coming-to-south-africa-and-soon/

Quote: " More good news is that it will cost R124,999"...  :imaposer:

Where do you journos come up with these gems, do you live on Mars or something?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 13, 2018, 03:30:35 pm
More:

https://thebikeshow.co.za/the-honda-cfr450l-is-coming-to-south-africa-and-soon/

Quote: " More good news is that it will cost R124,999"...  :imaposer:

Where do you journos come up with these gems, do you live on Mars or something?
Or

"We love the Honda CRF250L, we really do, but the problem with South Africa is that itís extremely, well, big. And open. The 250 is an amazing street-legal off-road bike, but when it comes to the navigating of a thousand kilometres of open South African veldt and desert, it just doesnít cut it."

Well too bad you have to service the 450 every 1000km while the 250 will trundle on until 10 000km  :deal: To me this is the biggest drawback of this Honda, yes I know the services can most likely be stretched to 2000 or 3000km but a bike sold off the floor as a DS should really have longer service intervals and I'd be willing to take a knock in performance to achieve that.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 13, 2018, 03:41:52 pm
This is not a bike to replace a 250L with, especially if you are going to tour a bit or commute
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 13, 2018, 03:49:42 pm
Honda trying to close the market gaps at all costs ...  ::)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on December 13, 2018, 04:16:55 pm
Close gaps?  They opened some more gaps with this bike.
Still better than Yamaha, who held the world ransom for 2 years and then come up with a T7 that looks amazing but doesnt go as well as it looks.
Pfffttt.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 13, 2018, 05:08:23 pm
Close gaps?  They opened some more gaps with this bike.
Still better than Yamaha, who held the world ransom for 2 years and then come up with a T7 that looks amazing but doesnt go as well as it looks.
Pfffttt.

Not disputing that - this is exactly what I am saying, they are identifying the gaps and filling them with product. If other marques want to play along then let them.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on December 13, 2018, 05:20:31 pm
True. And the more gaps are being filled, the more the demand for something else.
Difficult for the manufacturers.
I was hoping we might get something from the Japs in the line of the 690/701, but alas.
Dont think that will ever happen.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on December 14, 2018, 09:52:19 am
I like the bike a lot and checks almost all the boxes I need except, think its overpriced for what you get, that seat is not going to do you any favors specially if taking long trips, tank is way to small and the service intervals is a joke. If not for that and I had the money would have considered buying one, maybe in a couople off years time I'll get a secondhand one.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LouisXander on December 14, 2018, 01:19:58 pm
Hells bells!!!! a Kark load of money for a seriously underpowered bike!!!

Wish Suzuki bring the DRz back in 450 guise!!!!!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 15, 2018, 06:40:21 am
So when are we finally getting to ride it? 

Itís such a pity that there is so many riding gods here that simply ditch it on inferior power delivery.  Missing the wood for the trees?

This bike would suit a lot of riders with trials accessible within a couple kilometers from home, that doesnít want/need the full grunt of its perceived competition but would benefit from good suspension and agility, coupled with what is expected to be good reliability.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 15, 2018, 07:00:10 am
So when are we finally getting to ride it? 

Itís such a pity that there is so many riding gods here that simply ditch it on inferior power delivery.  Missing the wood for the trees?

This bike would suit a lot of riders with trials accessible within a couple kilometers from home, that doesnít want/need the full grunt of its perceived competition but would benefit from good suspension and agility, coupled with what is expected to be good reliability.

You are so right , way to many riding gods and keyboard jockeys who determine a bikes ability based on the spec sheet , I learnt that a spec sheet cannot tell you how a bike feels to ride , how it handles , how the brakes work , how easy it is to move around on , or gearchange , or ,or .......... What I did realise is that some bikes are greater than their spec sheets would have you believe , after all you ride the bike not the brochure .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 15, 2018, 08:23:42 am
So when are we finally getting to ride it? 

Itís such a pity that there is so many riding gods here that simply ditch it on inferior power delivery.  Missing the wood for the trees?

This bike would suit a lot of riders with trials accessible within a couple kilometers from home, that doesnít want/need the full grunt of its perceived competition but would benefit from good suspension and agility, coupled with what is expected to be good reliability.

You are so right , way to many riding gods and keyboard jockeys who determine a bikes ability based on the spec sheet , I learnt that a spec sheet cannot tell you how a bike feels to ride , how it handles , how the brakes work , how easy it is to move around on , or gearchange , or ,or .......... What I did realise is that some bikes are greater than their spec sheets would have you believe , after all you ride the bike not the brochure .

Very true - and many spec sheets flatter bikes as well. The proof is always in the pudding ride  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: MaxThePanda on December 15, 2018, 08:42:46 am
I was just scrolling to the bottom so I could say the same thing. I think there is a lot of spec baloney going on here.

I think this thing looks great - itís right on the KTM in price, and a little smoother, softer and heavier, to be more dual sport oriented. Itís got 3 piston rings, which I think is a big nod to durability, exceptional examples of KTMs running for long miles not withstanding.

Isnít it fucking awesome another manufacturer has joined the fray???!

If a big tank comes out soon, I think for the rough adventure crowd using them for what we use them for, it will be a perfectly viable alternative to the 500. Iíd still rather have a new 500, but two of my mates would rather have this. We need something to argue about around the camp fire anyway.

PS > I honestly canít believe weíre still listening to arguments about how itís more expensive than a 7 yr old used DRZ. Jaysus! You can have two of these (or 500s) for a 1290. You can have 1.5 250 Rallyís for 1 of these. You can 1.5 of these for a new 790 adventure. I also want Honda and KTM to give their bikes away for R50k with a free Tinkerbell Fairy handlebar accessory.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 15, 2018, 10:31:11 am
I'm sure we will all agree that more bikes in this class is obviously great.

For those that have owned many different varieties of ktms and jap bikes, the specs are not "baloney"

The specs tell me that the L still has the same valves which went tight on me, 400km from home and resulted in a total valve train rebuild.

They tell me that it also still has the same grabby clutch which has an unpredictable and narrow friction zone.

It still has the same brakes etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my CRF but it had more flaws than some of my other bikes ( the same flaws mxaction and dirtbike magazine have been bitching about for years)

Honda did great by adding this bike to their lineup. They've addressed the biggest issue which was gearing but lots still left on the table.- long since addressed by ktm.

It is thus great that the L is being produced.
It only seems like Honda never knew that the 520/525/530/500exc ever existed??

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LouisXander on December 15, 2018, 02:31:58 pm
Goed jy gee jou opinie Pierre, jy het al die fietse gery.....

:imaposer:  RIDING GOD. :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 15, 2018, 04:15:56 pm
Goed jy gee jou opinie Pierre, jy het al die fietse gery.....

:imaposer:  RIDING GOD. :imaposer:

:imaposer:  RIDING DOG. :imaposer:

fixed  >:D
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 15, 2018, 04:31:37 pm
I'm sure we will all agree that more bikes in this class is obviously great.

For those that have owned many different varieties of ktms and jap bikes, the specs are not "baloney"

The specs tell me that the L still has the same valves which went tight on me, 400km from home and resulted in a total valve train rebuild.

They tell me that it also still has the same grabby clutch which has an unpredictable and narrow friction zone.

It still has the same brakes etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my CRF but it had more flaws than some of my other bikes ( the same flaws mxaction and dirtbike magazine have been bitching about for years)

Honda did great by adding this bike to their lineup. They've addressed the biggest issue which was gearing but lots still left on the table.- long since addressed by ktm.

It is thus great that the L is being produced.
It only seems like Honda never knew that the 520/525/530/500exc ever existed??

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So you had one bike with issues and yet all others from that same brand are tarred with the same brush . I have the fortune/misfortune to work on all different makes and models of bikes , and if I had the same attitude as yours I would not ride any bike at all , because they all give shit , and that includes KTM .

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 15, 2018, 05:46:17 pm
Done many SS valve conversions on the ktm's then?

Let's be honest, the CRF has the tendency to cup valves

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LouisXander on December 15, 2018, 06:50:09 pm
Dominic, true, except I'm a moerneer dog!! :imaposer:

Dux, you know the titanium valves was big issues on the X's and the R's...

In my eyes, R125k is an lot of money for a scoot that who can afford it weights 80-90kgs plus, so suspension, and is setup for a 60kg japanese rider, so that will have to be sorted.....
Then the zorst ......
Then the valves.....

Its my opinion, I'll stick to my 600R.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 15, 2018, 06:59:12 pm
I was just scrolling to the bottom so I could say the same thing. I think there is a lot of spec baloney going on here.

I think this thing looks great - itís right on the KTM in price, and a little smoother, softer and heavier, to be more dual sport oriented. Itís got 3 piston rings, which I think is a big nod to durability, exceptional examples of KTMs running for long miles not withstanding.

Isnít it fucking awesome another manufacturer has joined the fray???!

If a big tank comes out soon, I think for the rough adventure crowd using them for what we use them for, it will be a perfectly viable alternative to the 500. Iíd still rather have a new 500, but two of my mates would rather have this. We need something to argue about around the camp fire anyway.

PS > I honestly canít believe weíre still listening to arguments about how itís more expensive than a 7 yr old used DRZ. Jaysus! You can have two of these (or 500s) for a 1290. You can have 1.5 250 Rallyís for 1 of these. You can 1.5 of these for a new 790 adventure. I also want Honda and KTM to give their bikes away for R50k with a free Tinkerbell Fairy handlebar accessory.

Assuming you care at least little bit for your mates, why would you not try to steer them rather towards logically better choice - plated crf450x? It has the same three piston rings, same lowered compression, same 6 speed gearbox - ie same durability/reliability, but less weight more power, and most probably cheaper? And it doesnt have crap loaded onto it to make some euro officer happy (and euro custoner unhappy) that will most people pull off anyway and it has the same honda name printed on it.

Each to their own, but logic seems pretty clear here - unless honda pulls dirty punch and makes 450x unplatable in sa, if i would have to buy japanese 450x it would be.

And im not complainig about price in isolation (yes all bikes are getting pricey) but in comparison to obvious competition. If this bike exactly as it is costs 90-100k, i might see a point. Or if it costs exactly the same 125k, but has service interval of 5-10k km to differentiate it from competition again i could see the rationale for it. As it stands the bikes price is going to harm it big time.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Vis Arend on December 15, 2018, 08:59:54 pm
As it stands the bikes price is going to harm it big time.

Then tell us what price tag would you put on the 450?  As I see it nothing bike wise comes cheap these days, so how would you determine your price?   
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 15, 2018, 09:11:26 pm
As it stands the bikes price is going to harm it big time.

Then tell us what price tag would you put on the 450?  As I see it nothing bike wise comes cheap these days, so how would you determine your price?

Ktm 500 price (which is 124k) minus ~20k. Reason: ktm beats honda at power and weight, is proven platform, has better components, and they are match at service intervals.

As said if honda brought something unique such as much longer service intervals, i could see rationale for price parity as it would give her much wider usage (eg commuting or long distance trips eithout excessive maintenance). As it stands it doesnt have any such advantage and falls short on number of accounts, so price parity is unjustified. At least For rationaly thinking people.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 15, 2018, 09:30:04 pm
If I was gonna buy this,
I would fit SS intake valves: R5K -8K?
Fit a proper clutch (Hindson/Wiseco/Recluse): R5K-8K maybe more for a complete kit?

That's a lot of money for fixing things which should have been addressed.

There is no way to get its brakes up to 500 standards as a bigger rotor will only make them grabby. -The caliper pistons are inferior.

Magura has an hydraulic clutch kit for the CRF (not as good as the Brembo on ktm, as it's seals are inferior) but still nicer than stock cable setup.

From video reviews, the L's suspension seems way too soft. That will also need fixing.

CRF chain slider is super finicky- if the chain slack is not 100% correct, it will destroy the slider. -almost ended my trip this way. (Chain slack is tricky when loading the back of the bike with luggage)
Best is to ditch the stock slider for an aftermarket variant.

Now it will be closer to a stock ktm.
Still no billet hubs or fat bars though.

Weight is not that much of an issue for me, given the DS application.

Or I could just buy a 500exc for way less.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 15, 2018, 09:34:38 pm
Still have not addressed the power shortage (compared to 500) yet.

Desmog + pipe will bridge the gap

$$

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 15, 2018, 09:37:48 pm
Still have not addressed the power shortage (compared to 500) yet.

Desmog + pipe will bridge the gap

$$

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Well crf450x will bridge that gap (and weight) to some extent out if the box, and for less money.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 15, 2018, 09:39:13 pm
Still have not addressed the power shortage (compared to 500) yet.

Desmog + pipe will bridge the gap

$$

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Well crf450x will bridge that gap (and weight) to some extent out if the box, and for less money.
Correct.
Barring the suspension bit, my previous statements still stand.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 15, 2018, 09:49:30 pm
Brakes on any of these bikes is a non-issue as in our application we won't scratch the surface of any of these bikes' braking capabilities.

As for the complaints about cable clutches, walk around squeezing a tennis ball and you can also cope with a cable clutch. :pot:

Why would the CRF need another complete clutch??

Power shortage??  The 500 is overkill for the job, the CRF is probably going to be closer to good.

But my original viewpoint, that the WR450 was always there to be plated as a D/S bike, yet no one was interested. Simply because what guys here advocate as "D/S", is not really D/S, it's closer to closed-circuit usage, iow trailering to your chosen riding area, and back.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 15, 2018, 09:54:13 pm
Brakes on any of these bikes is a non-issue as in our application we won't scratch the surface of any of these bikes' braking capabilities.

As for the complaints about cable clutches, walk around squeezing a tennis ball and you can also cope with a cable clutch. :pot:

Why would the CRF need another complete clutch??

Power shortage??  The 500 is overkill for the job, the CRF is probably going to be closer to good.

But my original viewpoint, that the WR450 was always there to be plated as a D/S bike, yet no one was interested. Simply because what guys here advocate as "D/S", is not really D/S, it's closer to closed-circuit usage, iow trailering to your chosen riding area, and back.

Yes, if you consider 2000 km loop through damaraland and kaokoland closed circuit

And prople dont care about wr because yamaha doesnt care. Still 5 gears snd not the most bulletproof valvetrain. At least honda is trying - albeit in a weird way. Stuck between choice if wr and crf450x (tge new 6 speed one), i would go honda. And lets repeat here: even you didnt buy wr.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 15, 2018, 10:00:22 pm
Brakes on any of these bikes is a non-issue as in our application we won't scratch the surface of any of these bikes' braking capabilities.

As for the complaints about cable clutches, walk around squeezing a tennis ball and you can also cope with a cable clutch. :pot:

Why would the CRF need another complete clutch??

Power shortage??  The 500 is overkill for the job, the CRF is probably going to be closer to good.

But my original viewpoint, that the WR450 was always there to be plated as a D/S bike, yet no one was interested. Simply because what guys here advocate as "D/S", is not really D/S, it's closer to closed-circuit usage, iow trailering to your chosen riding area, and back.

Yes, if you consider 2000 km loop through damaraland and kaokoland closed circuit

And prople dont care about wr because yamaha doesnt care. Still 5 gears snd not the most bulletproof valvetrain. At least honda is trying - albeit in a weird way. Stuck between choice if wr and crf450x (tge new 6 speed one), i would go honda. And lets repeat here: even you didnt buy wr.

I did not buy WR, because I ride from home and back, thus a enduro bike won't do it for my trips.

I get your thing about a 2000km loop through Damara/Kaokoveld,  but for that you need to add a lot of expense for towing vehicle and trailer.

Do not stare yourself blind against 5speed gearboxes, I have done the road to hell on a 5speed. ;)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 15, 2018, 10:20:48 pm
Sure, brakes are less of an issue, but the difference is still noteworthy. The one has the best brakes in the business and the other, the 2nd worst.

Go ride a CRF and then we can speak about its clutch.
As stated, it's grabby with an unpredictable, tiny, friction zone.

It will slip once you unleash R level power, which is why an extra spring was added, which is why some add hydraulic actuation.
The entire clutch is kak.

There is nothing wrong with Yamaha's valve trains (4 valve)
My WR gearbox was still no match for the 525 gearbox.

The 500/525/530 does not have too much power, it's pretty much perfect for technical DS etc. as it manages that 6th gear just fine.

The 550/570/650 has too much power for most mortals.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 15, 2018, 11:40:39 pm
Done many SS valve conversions on the ktm's then?

Let's be honest, the CRF has the tendency to cup valves

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As a matter of fact I have done quite a few KTM's already including 525's , and yes I have also done CRF's but then also all the others as well . From my experience on the CRF's , and I did a lot of enduro riding on them , the valves were no worse than other bikes and I am referring to the X not the R , clutch I had no issues whatsoever , and if it held up in the technical terrain we were riding then it would hold up anywhere . 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 15, 2018, 11:43:11 pm
Still have not addressed the power shortage (compared to 500) yet.

Desmog + pipe will bridge the gap

$$

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So why not compare it to the 450 KTM ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 16, 2018, 12:16:53 am
Poor airfilter maintenance will stuff up any valves so replacing 525 valves can happen.
CRF valves go out of spec much sooner and if they do, the titanium rim wears off double quick and at that point it's a 5-8K job to fix.
After an SS conversion, they stay in spec for longer.-you should know this, you mos had CRF's?

Your opinions differ from every rider at mxaction as well as dirtbike magazine (the guys that race each years bikes for the entire season. Since 1970.
 And quite a number of others that settled for kibblewhite valves and hinson clutches)

You simply can't compare the flaky CRF clutch to even the YZ's, not to mention a Ktm. Either you don't use the clutch much or you are kidding yourself.

Anyway, I'm not here to convince anyone. My experiences were inline with what I've read in long term tests, and that's enough for me.

Go buy your L and have your fun :thumleft:

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 16, 2018, 12:18:13 am
Still have not addressed the power shortage (compared to 500) yet.

Desmog + pipe will bridge the gap

$$

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So why not compare it to the 450 KTM ?
Wild guess but perhaps they are similarly priced.

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Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on December 16, 2018, 10:22:05 am
Perhaps this bike is starting to make more sense?
Its meant for more hardcore riding and at this level you should be fairly good with maintenance and the regular oil changes is not a killer.
If you do the regular pipe/filter/fuelling on this bike it might be a whole other bike.
If you start off with a mint or new  x or wr and do a cush conversion and proper roadworthy, you cant be too far off 125k?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 16, 2018, 10:43:32 am
If we are talking previous generation 450X we should compare it with its KTM counterpart of the day. The XC4 as most will know had many flaws and featured new parts with just about every model year. Not KTMís best effort while the 450X besides the valve issue was just about bullet proof. Is the new gen X still plagued by valve issues ? I have not read to much up on them so far. The 500 was a big improvement for KTM
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 16, 2018, 10:43:46 am
Perhaps this bike is starting to make more sense?
Its meant for more hardcore riding and at this level you should be fairly good with maintenance and the regular oil changes is not a killer.
If you do the regular pipe/filter/fuelling on this bike it might be a whole other bike.
If you start off with a mint or new  x or wr and do a cush conversion and proper roadworthy, you cant be too far off 125k?

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 16, 2018, 12:02:48 pm
This is the 740th post on a bike that I don't think anyone has ridden yet , yet some would seem so hell bent on slating it , and that without any valid experience on the subject in question .

Valve issues come with the territory of titanium valves , none of the manufacturers haven't had issues on that side .

Some have had a bad experience on one bike and judge all that follow based on that experience , others blindly follow what is stated in publications .
I find it amusing that a bike will be classified as the worst bike in some markets will be the best bike in others , there is that big variable in the market and that is the rider , my requirements and setup are more than likely very different to 2SD , Xpat , Altie and in all reality most others on this forum , so while bike XYZ might be perfect for me it might not work for others , that doesn't mean to say it is a bad bike , just not suited to everyone .

Tests I have read so far have been very positive , I haven't ridden one yet but I am certain I wouldn't be disappointed just as I am sure I wouldn't with other bikes in the market , but I will only say for certain once I have ridden one .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: IanTheTooth on December 16, 2018, 01:25:21 pm
I've ridden one around Mackay Dux! Reply #692.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 16, 2018, 01:58:23 pm
I've ridden one around Mackay Dux! Reply #692.

In all fairness Ian , going around the block as you state does not exactly constitute a test .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 16, 2018, 05:45:01 pm
If we are talking previous generation 450X we should compare it with its KTM counterpart of the day. The XC4 as most will know had many flaws and featured new parts with just about every model year. Not KTMís best effort while the 450X besides the valve issue was just about bullet proof. Is the new gen X still plagued by valve issues ? I have not read to much up on them so far. The 500 was a big improvement for KTM
Not sure if he was talking previous X. I thought it was about a plated 2019 450X, instead of limp L.

Agreed, the XC4 was very bad and 3 generations ago already?

But we digress; the question was not Honda vs KTM reliability but L vs 500 as they are similarly priced and things that need 'fixing' in order to get the L to the same level as the 500.
To answer you other question; yes Honda is still rocking that same 'ol unicam + Ti valve design since '02
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 16, 2018, 06:34:09 pm

........... weights 80-90kgs plus, so suspension, and is setup for a 60kg japanese rider, so that will have to be sorted ......


Where do you get this information from??
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 16, 2018, 06:40:11 pm
If we are talking previous generation 450X we should compare it with its KTM counterpart of the day. The XC4 as most will know had many flaws and featured new parts with just about every model year. Not KTMís best effort while the 450X besides the valve issue was just about bullet proof. Is the new gen X still plagued by valve issues ? I have not read to much up on them so far. The 500 was a big improvement for KTM
Not sure if he was talking previous X. I thought it was about a plated 2019 450X, instead of limp L.

Agreed, the XC4 was very bad and 3 generations ago already?

But we digress; the question was not Honda vs KTM reliability but L vs 500 as they are similarly priced and things that need 'fixing' in order to get the L to the same level as the 500.
To answer you other question; yes Honda is still rocking that same 'ol unicam + Ti valve design since '02

Firstly , a more fair comparison would be be if both were 450's , at least equal the playing fields .

Honda may have been using the unicam design for years but there are vast differences between 02 and now
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 16, 2018, 06:54:48 pm
If we are talking previous generation 450X we should compare it with its KTM counterpart of the day. The XC4 as most will know had many flaws and featured new parts with just about every model year. Not KTMís best effort while the 450X besides the valve issue was just about bullet proof. Is the new gen X still plagued by valve issues ? I have not read to much up on them so far. The 500 was a big improvement for KTM
Not sure if he was talking previous X. I thought it was about a plated 2019 450X, instead of limp L.

Agreed, the XC4 was very bad and 3 generations ago already?

But we digress; the question was not Honda vs KTM reliability but L vs 500 as they are similarly priced and things that need 'fixing' in order to get the L to the same level as the 500.
To answer you other question; yes Honda is still rocking that same 'ol unicam + Ti valve design since '02

Firstly , a more fair comparison would be be if both were 450's , at least equal the playing fields .

Honda may have been using the unicam design for years but there are vast differences between 02 and now

Exactly.  According to Cycle World ďThe Honda CRF450R makes the most horsepower and torque of all six 450 motocross bikes in 2019.Ē

If youíre unhappy with the Lís performance, there is a plug & play option to get it up to the X performance levels.  If you want more fuel range, IMS already have an aftermarket option available, albeit still on the small side.

Despite owning a red brand plated 450X and a orange brand plated 450XC-W, Iím looking forward to see this bike succeed in the market.  Itís not the same as the 250 L, this is off a proper racing platform, with proper suspension and a very acceptable exhaust, unlike the gibberish thatís uttered by some here.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 16, 2018, 07:17:39 pm
If we are talking previous generation 450X we should compare it with its KTM counterpart of the day. The XC4 as most will know had many flaws and featured new parts with just about every model year. Not KTMís best effort while the 450X besides the valve issue was just about bullet proof. Is the new gen X still plagued by valve issues ? I have not read to much up on them so far. The 500 was a big improvement for KTM
Not sure if he was talking previous X. I thought it was about a plated 2019 450X, instead of limp L.

Agreed, the XC4 was very bad and 3 generations ago already?

But we digress; the question was not Honda vs KTM reliability but L vs 500 as they are similarly priced and things that need 'fixing' in order to get the L to the same level as the 500.
To answer you other question; yes Honda is still rocking that same 'ol unicam + Ti valve design since '02

Firstly , a more fair comparison would be be if both were 450's , at least equal the playing fields

That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 16, 2018, 07:25:52 pm

Exactly.  According to Cycle World ďThe Honda CRF450R makes the most horsepower and torque of all six 450 motocross bikes in 2019.Ē -Not seeing the relevance of quoting the R in this L discussion?? Good luck producing R power with this L

If youíre unhappy with the Lís performance, there is a plug & play option to get it up to the X performance levels. Are you going to 'plug & play a higher compression piston with less inertia in there as well?  If you want more fuel range, IMS already have an aftermarket option available, albeit still on the small side.

Despite owning a red brand plated 450X and a orange brand plated 450XC-W , Iím looking forward to see this bike succeed in the market.  Itís not the same as the 250 L, this is off a proper racing platform, with proper suspension under-sprung suspension  and a very acceptable exhaust, unlike the gibberish thatís uttered by some here.  right..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 16, 2018, 07:26:08 pm
If we are talking previous generation 450X we should compare it with its KTM counterpart of the day. The XC4 as most will know had many flaws and featured new parts with just about every model year. Not KTMís best effort while the 450X besides the valve issue was just about bullet proof. Is the new gen X still plagued by valve issues ? I have not read to much up on them so far. The 500 was a big improvement for KTM
Not sure if he was talking previous X. I thought it was about a plated 2019 450X, instead of limp L.

Agreed, the XC4 was very bad and 3 generations ago already?

But we digress; the question was not Honda vs KTM reliability but L vs 500 as they are similarly priced and things that need 'fixing' in order to get the L to the same level as the 500.
To answer you other question; yes Honda is still rocking that same 'ol unicam + Ti valve design since '02

Firstly , a more fair comparison would be be if both were 450's , at least equal the playing fields

That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

Exactly why, despite more weight, the 701 became my choice for my type of D/S touring.  Even more user-friendly than 450/500's.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 16, 2018, 07:29:15 pm

Firstly , a more fair comparison would be be if both were 450's , at least equal the playing fields .

Honda may have been using the unicam design for years but there are vast differences between 02 and now
Secondly, if you wanted a 450 vs 450 comparison, the L's price must be dropped to KTM 450 levels  :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 16, 2018, 07:37:19 pm

Firstly , a more fair comparison would be be if both were 450's , at least equal the playing fields .

Honda may have been using the unicam design for years but there are vast differences between 02 and now
Secondly, if you wanted a 450 vs 450 comparison, the L's price must be dropped to KTM 450 levels  :deal:

Why??? Is the KTM 450 available off the floor, in SA, as a plated, road legal bike?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 16, 2018, 07:39:02 pm
Just note that the CRF450X remains my all-time favorite bike and I've had a couple bikes.
I also used my X on 1000Km+ rides.
All I'm saying is that it had imperfections.

Imperfections that were easily forgiven, given the fact that I only paid 32K for it.
But the moment we start comparing an L with same said imperfections, to a 500, it becomes a different discussion.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 16, 2018, 07:43:53 pm
Why??? Is the KTM 450 available off the floor, in SA, as a plated, road legal bike?
Why not?? It's also an EXC.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 16, 2018, 07:50:46 pm

Exactly.  According to Cycle World ďThe Honda CRF450R makes the most horsepower and torque of all six 450 motocross bikes in 2019.Ē -Not seeing the relevance of quoting the R in this L discussion?? Good luck producing R power with this L . The relevance as an example of the ability to produce power should they wish to, opposing the numerous references to Honda that is not able to meet >10 year old KTM models.  If they wanted to produce more power in the L, they would have, donít you think? 

If youíre unhappy with the Lís performance, there is a plug & play option to get it up to the X performance levels. Are you going to 'plug & play a higher compression piston with less inertia in there as well?  Watch this space after the SA launch. If you want more fuel range, IMS already have an aftermarket option available, albeit still on the small side.

Despite owning a red brand plated 450X and a orange brand plated 450XC-W , Iím looking forward to see this bike succeed in the market.  Itís not the same as the 250 L, this is off a proper racing platform, with proper suspension under-sprung suspension   Much like I had to change the suspension on my 450 XC-W, or CRFX, or 990, or ...  point is that itís impossible to cater for everyoneís suspension needs.and a very acceptable exhaust, unlike the gibberish thatís uttered by some here.  right..

wolf skaap, youíre not gonna buy one, and neither am I, but for heavens sake, give this bike a good chance.  The D/S and Adventure riding scene will benefit hugely from the average rider starting off on something like this opposed to jumping on a 1200 class bike as an introduction to adventure riding. The same goes for you Xpat, thereís life before the 500.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 16, 2018, 08:00:34 pm
Kobus I suspect it is just to easy to knock something than to give it a chance , my opinion is that it is a good bike and sales will hopefully prove that , but lets wait for the launch and get a bit more feedback then .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 16, 2018, 08:08:15 pm
Kobus I suspect it is just to easy to knock something than to give it a chance , my opinion is that it is a good bike and sales will hopefully prove that , but lets wait for the launch and get a bit more feedback then .

Unfortunately true Dux.  Was the same with the 250 Rally, yet it is still (slowly) growing in popularity by those accepting what it is.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 16, 2018, 08:14:24 pm
Time will tell , for Honda's sake I hope they have good sales  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 16, 2018, 10:14:51 pm
@Kobus Myburgh : i desisted replying to you on this thread since you shown the tendency to play the player instead of the ball, but since you addressed me directly, here goes:

It may come as a surprise to you, but as one of the very few people on this thread who actually ride bike in this category (plated dirt bike) extendively (actualy for the past year exclusively) i do dearly wish honda succeeds in this segment, if for nothing else than to keep ktm on gye ball and hopefully lure other japs to follow the suit.

Moreover, we do share the same concern - that they might fail (and in the process scare away tge other japs). You just believe they might fail because people like me might scare customers away (and i have to point out that all my concerns voiced are based on known facts, not some intangible feelings and i will always put interest of fellow biker before any corporation). While i am on the other hand concerned that they are going miss the goal because they ignore market reality and come up with ill fitting market offering, where price just doesnt correspond to the offered value as substantiated by obvious competition. I am strong believer that this is going to hurt the bike in the long run much more than comments of few people on one mildly followed thread.

I dare to say - quite arrogantly admitedly- that i am responsible for quite a few sales of 500 due to being able to show in my RRs how bike in this category allows average bimbo like me to expand vastly their riding options and freedom. And no, i didnt invent tgis segment in sa - jyst 2 years ago i was telling MaxTgePanda how much superior 690 is for ds while he luckily prevented with 500 and when sidetrack and wolf skaap were doing their trips on 525/crf/yz i still believed tyat tenere is ds bike. I was just fortunate to have some time that i could use for riding.

So if you really concerned about L, why not do the same and inspire people through example? Get L (iwas surprised you are not getting one seeing your extensive honda fleet), go for some kick ass trip and document them here. I will happily suggest some
Proper trips fitting for L with gps tracks. Heck, if caledars align i might even join you for trip.

I think that is much more positive and effective strategy, than trying to talk over some obvious weaknesses.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 16, 2018, 10:22:57 pm
@Kobus Myburgh : i desisted replying to you on this thread since you shown the tendency to play the player instead of the ball, but since you addressed me directly, here goes:

It may come as a surprise to you, but as one of the very few people on this thread who actually ride bike in this category (plated dirt bike) extendively (actualy for the past year exclusively) i do dearly wish honda succeeds in this segment, if for nothing else than to keep ktm on gye ball and hopefully lure other japs to follow the suit.

Moreover, we do share the same concern - that they might fail (and in the process scare away tge other japs). You just believe they might fail because people like me might scare customers away (and i have to point out that all my concerns voiced are based on known facts, not some intangible feelings and i will always put interest of fellow biker before any corporation). While i am on the other hand concerned that they are going miss the goal because they ignore market reality and come up with ill fitting market offering, where price just doesnt correspond to the offered value as substantiated by obvious competition. I am strong believer that this is going to hurt the bike in the long run much more than comments of few people on one mildly followed thread.

I dare to say - quite arrogantly admitedly- that i am responsible for quite a few sales of 500 due to being able to show in my RRs how bike in this category allows average bimbo like me to expand vastly their riding options and freedom. And no, i didnt invent tgis segment in sa - jyst 2 years ago i was telling MaxTgePanda how much superior 690 is for ds while he luckily prevented with 500 and when sidetrack and wolf skaap were doing their trips on 525/crf/yz i still believed tyat tenere is ds bike. I was just fortunate to have some time that i could use for riding.

So if you really concerned about L, why not do the same and inspire people through example? Get L (iwas surprised you are not getting one seeing your extensive honda fleet), go for some kick ass trip and document them here. I will happily suggest some
Proper trips fitting for L with gps tracks. Heck, if caledars align i might even join you for trip.

I think that is much more positive and effective strategy, than trying to talk over some obvious weaknesses.

This means that you will also have to go and purchase the 450 CRF, go for extensive touring on it and then only come and advocate your 500 over the Honda.

The Honda's clutches may be "grabby"[like the description of 690 throttles "snappy" ::) but they will not let you down like your 500. Your clutch action may have come back, but the damage is done.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 16, 2018, 10:27:36 pm
@Kobus Myburgh : i desisted replying to you on this thread since you shown the tendency to play the player instead of the ball, but since you addressed me directly, here goes:

It may come as a surprise to you, but as one of the very few people on this thread who actually ride bike in this category (plated dirt bike) extendively (actualy for the past year exclusively) i do dearly wish honda succeeds in this segment, if for nothing else than to keep ktm on gye ball and hopefully lure other japs to follow the suit.

Moreover, we do share the same concern - that they might fail (and in the process scare away tge other japs). You just believe they might fail because people like me might scare customers away (and i have to point out that all my concerns voiced are based on known facts, not some intangible feelings and i will always put interest of fellow biker before any corporation). While i am on the other hand concerned that they are going miss the goal because they ignore market reality and come up with ill fitting market offering, where price just doesnt correspond to the offered value as substantiated by obvious competition. I am strong believer that this is going to hurt the bike in the long run much more than comments of few people on one mildly followed thread.

I dare to say - quite arrogantly admitedly- that i am responsible for quite a few sales of 500 due to being able to show in my RRs how bike in this category allows average bimbo like me to expand vastly their riding options and freedom. And no, i didnt invent tgis segment in sa - jyst 2 years ago i was telling MaxTgePanda how much superior 690 is for ds while he luckily prevented with 500 and when sidetrack and wolf skaap were doing their trips on 525/crf/yz i still believed tyat tenere is ds bike. I was just fortunate to have some time that i could use for riding.

So if you really concerned about L, why not do the same and inspire people through example? Get L (iwas surprised you are not getting one seeing your extensive honda fleet), go for some kick ass trip and document them here. I will happily suggest some
Proper trips fitting for L with gps tracks. Heck, if caledars align i might even join you for trip.

I think that is much more positive and effective strategy, than trying to talk over some obvious weaknesses.

This means that you will also have to go and purchase the 450 CRF, go for extensive touring on it and then only come and advocate your 500 over the Honda.

The Honda's clutches may be "grabby"[like the description of 690 throttles "snappy" ::) but they will not let you down like your 500. Your clutch action may have come back, but the damage is done.

And here i was with olive branch...

What damage? Im heading up orange tomorrow morning again with zero worry. If your brake fluid boils over and brakes fail until it cools down you run home like chicken?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 16, 2018, 10:31:01 pm
@Kobus Myburgh : i desisted replying to you on this thread since you shown the tendency to play the player instead of the ball, but since you addressed me directly, here goes:

It may come as a surprise to you, but as one of the very few people on this thread who actually ride bike in this category (plated dirt bike) extendively (actualy for the past year exclusively) i do dearly wish honda succeeds in this segment, if for nothing else than to keep ktm on gye ball and hopefully lure other japs to follow the suit.

Moreover, we do share the same concern - that they might fail (and in the process scare away tge other japs). You just believe they might fail because people like me might scare customers away (and i have to point out that all my concerns voiced are based on known facts, not some intangible feelings and i will always put interest of fellow biker before any corporation). While i am on the other hand concerned that they are going miss the goal because they ignore market reality and come up with ill fitting market offering, where price just doesnt correspond to the offered value as substantiated by obvious competition. I am strong believer that this is going to hurt the bike in the long run much more than comments of few people on one mildly followed thread.

I dare to say - quite arrogantly admitedly- that i am responsible for quite a few sales of 500 due to being able to show in my RRs how bike in this category allows average bimbo like me to expand vastly their riding options and freedom. And no, i didnt invent tgis segment in sa - jyst 2 years ago i was telling MaxTgePanda how much superior 690 is for ds while he luckily prevented with 500 and when sidetrack and wolf skaap were doing their trips on 525/crf/yz i still believed tyat tenere is ds bike. I was just fortunate to have some time that i could use for riding.

So if you really concerned about L, why not do the same and inspire people through example? Get L (iwas surprised you are not getting one seeing your extensive honda fleet), go for some kick ass trip and document them here. I will happily suggest some
Proper trips fitting for L with gps tracks. Heck, if caledars align i might even join you for trip.

I think that is much more positive and effective strategy, than trying to talk over some obvious weaknesses.

This means that you will also have to go and purchase the 450 CRF, go for extensive touring on it and then only come and advocate your 500 over the Honda.

The Honda's clutches may be "grabby"[like the description of 690 throttles "snappy" ::) but they will not let you down like your 500. Your clutch action may have come back, but the damage is done.

What damage? Im heading up orange tomorrow morning again with zero worry. If your brake fluid boils over and brakes fail until it cools down you run home like chicken?

What do you think makes your brake fluid boil? Heat from a inferior clutch, and this is not only the 500, the 690/701 suffer from the same "treat me with kid gloves" clutchpacks.

When it comes to reliability, and you want to compare KTM to Japanese, think twice.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 16, 2018, 10:44:08 pm
Nonsense. I boiled my brake fluid on Tenere as well. Nothing to do with bike, simple operator lack of skill. And the amount of abuse my clutch took in this year in 14k km is unbelievable - and still works fine.

KTMs in this category are fully on par with japs in reliability. Road bikes like 690 and bigger are different story, but dirt bikes are entirely dependable.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 16, 2018, 10:49:20 pm
Nonsense. I boiled my brake fluid on Tenere as well. Nothing to do with bike, simple operator lack of skill. And the amount of abuse my clutch took in this year in 14k km is unbelievable - and still works fine.

KTMs in this category are fully on par with japs in reliability. Road bikes like 690 and bigger are different story, but dirt bikes are entirely dependable.

I forgot about the Tenere. :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on December 16, 2018, 11:02:09 pm

KTMs in this category are fully on par with japs in reliability. Road bikes like 690 and bigger are different story, but dirt bikes are entirely dependable.

This past year I've replaced 1 set of intake valves on a KTM 450, 2 top gaskets (350 and 450) 1 crank seal on a 300 and had 3 failed big ends in my little shop - 85, 350 and 450.  Obviously I've done a number of preventative top-ends as well.  The examples I used were actual failures.

KTMs are certainly not magically reliable, but they are pretty easy to repair and there is a decent supply of spares.  The fact that I just about have the only Honda in the Kalahari obviously helps to sway the reliability stakes towards the red corner :laughing4:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: IanTheTooth on December 17, 2018, 12:52:18 am
Thank you Xpat for being I think the only person on this forum who actually uses his bike for riding rather than talking about. Wish you were here, I can almost imagine the headlines - two bimbos found dying of thirst in the outback!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 17, 2018, 05:17:12 am
@Xpat , apologies if it is construed that Iím playing the player and not the ball.  Iím trying hard in my second language to convey a different perspective here without being brand biased.  The fact that I mentioned your name is an attempt to illustrate that the 450L is not necessarily a direct 500 competitor.

The fact that I do have a soft spot for Honda goes beyond the bike itself and Iím certainly not oblivious to the shortcomings.  The reference to an extensive Honda fleet is also not exactly correct, but donít think it necessary to go into that detail.

The valve issue on the previous generation CRFís is a known fact and if money allowed, I wouldíve done the Kibblewhite conversion already for peace of mind.  Apart from regular valve adjustments and shimming Iíve had no problems though.

You propose a strategy where I should consider getting an L and doing extensive trips like yourself to promote it.  This is exactly where Iím trying to bring a different view across.  In the many reviews Iíve read (and might have missed it), I could not find a direct quote of Hondaís exact intention with the bike.  The majority of the reviews however conclude that itís a great bike for the trails.  In other words, not necessarily a multi day DS model.  For the type of riding you do on the 500, Iím also content to take the XC-W if necessary.  The 8 hour service schedule is for race pace, which Iím far off, so a couple of oil changes on a multi day trip will certainly not see it fall apart.  And ....... I canít afford a new bike right now.  :lol8:  The 640 will also be more than adequate to join in on the terrain you conquer.  Not being vertically challenged obviously helps me in this instance.

We are fortunate to have many trails close to home.  It does however require either riding through urban/public areas up to 50km or trailering the bike there.  This is where the L would be in its element.  The trails are such that you certainly can not use more power than what the L offers, so why the need?  Itís therefore an application which will suit the L perfectly.  Iíve had the 250L and still have a 250 Rally, but theyíre essentially very different bikes and lack suspension and power when you really want to do the enduro type riding, which the 450L now caters for.

My opinion might change drastically once Iíve had the opportunity to ride it, either way, but until then, Iím certainly not dissing the bike on statistics alone.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 17, 2018, 07:18:48 am
In the final analysis, we all have our brand preferences. :ricky: :ricky:

And this is how it should be, if a brand has given you joy, why not defend it?

It is in the very nature of the enthusiast. :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 17, 2018, 07:26:36 am
@Kobus Myburgh : all good, no worries, im also not native Englishman 👍

But you see, now im worried that you are - no doubt unintentionally - short selling this bike. Yes, honda or journos often use the phrase about connecting the trails, and rightly so as this bike will be great at it. But i believe it can do much more and it would be disservice to the bike not to mention that as it increases its appeal significantly.

Ktm also never advertised and probably never intended for 500 as a bike for multiday trips, just as plated dirt bike. It was Adam Riemann who came up with the motonomad series and made many people including me realize that 500 is much more than just day outride bike. And with all that was said abou L and even without ever seeing It in person i have absolutely no doubt that this honda in its current shape and form is perfectly capable of such trips out of box.

Adamís motonomad videos are well known, but just in case somebody didnt see them here they are. Yes they are 500s, but let me stress again that this L will do those trips out of box no problem at all:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yhWR5jjGzfM&feature=youtu.be (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yhWR5jjGzfM&feature=youtu.be)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZD5J93iuU (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZD5J93iuU)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UZtksV81JBA (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UZtksV81JBA)


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 17, 2018, 07:36:19 am
I just has to wonder why Adam Riemann had to make people realize that this 500 could be used for multi-day offroad trips, if it has been done for years on WR's/CRF-X's, etc?

And yes, you are correct, the Honda would be extremely capable on these trips, and the "negative" points mentioned by some against the Honda is nothing but badmouthing it on hearsay.

And you can only badmouth a bike on hearsay if it is a BMW. :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 17, 2018, 08:06:22 am
That got so close to saying something good about the L and leaving it at that Xpat, but then ending it with promoting the 500?  :lol8:

Iíve watched all of those movies referenced and yes theyíre awesome and inspiring.  For this thread, maybe ďInto the DustĒ, where father and son team use previous generations CRF450X, modify them slightly and go on to have a class win in the Baja 1000 is more of a testament to the Lís history?

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 17, 2018, 08:24:05 am
And the Baja 1000 is one race that Honda practically own , with the exception of 2014 they have won every year since 1997
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 17, 2018, 09:17:30 am
L will be just as capable as the 500 for the kind of DS rides we did.

How can I say that?- ive done long DS trips with a YZ, CRF, XC4, multiple 525, 530, 550..

The only issue, which I still stand by, is that you can't do a valve shimming job in the bush.
My CRF valves were perfectly in spec in my garage the night before our Bushveld trip.
It was out of spec in Vaalwater by the end of day 2.
By the end of day 3, the valves were done.

L needs SS valves at the very least.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 17, 2018, 10:51:02 am
L will be just as capable as the 500 for the kind of DS rides we did.

How can I say that?- ive done long DS trips with a YZ, CRF, XC4, multiple 525, 530, 550..

The only issue, which I still stand by, is that you can't do a valve shimming job in the bush.
My CRF valves were perfectly in spec in my garage the night before our Bushveld trip.
It was out of spec in Vaalwater by the end of day 2.
By the end of day 3, the valves were done.

L needs SS valves at the very least.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Hou op kak praat , this new 450 has absolutely nothing in common with the previous generation 450's , with bikes like yours that I was involved with we did two enduro seasons without opening the engines at all , on all of these we replaced rings before they were sold and valves were still good . And that was over quite a few seasons so not just a once off .
We even had a friend do two seasons on an R model without issues .
On that note one of our friends bought a 250X and the valves bombed out on the first weekend .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 17, 2018, 10:57:45 am
I see that you have decided to substitute everyone else's reality with your own.

:imaposer:


Hou op kak praat , this new 450 has absolutely nothing in common with the previous generation 450's  -i see....
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 17, 2018, 01:25:46 pm
Not at all , that was my very real experience , as I said ,in regional WC enduro's , we had a few 03 MX models used in enduro's that gave crap , but the X was a lot more reliable .
The L engine is based on the new X , which is in turn based on the new generation R and RX engine . A simple thing is the camshaft and valves , the 2017 X had a forked rocker for the exhaust while the cam operated directly on the inlet valves , the 2019 X and L engine have two separate rockers operating the exhaust valves , the cam is moved further forward and the inlet valve operate on short rockers .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 17, 2018, 02:29:00 pm
I would have happily bought a L be it not for the short service intervals. Iím past servicing my bike every month. Actually quite surprised Honda of all people released a street legal bike with 1000km intervals. Going through all that R&D of a heavier flywheel, stronger stator, three ring piston and proper subframe to name a few so how difficult could it have been to add some oil capacity. It is not an option for anyone looking to upgrade from a 250 L or Rally. Most likely they had day trippers in mind that connects trails in the US. Now if someone designs a oil cooler for it or Honda releases a 450 Rally with at least DRZ intervals Iím at my Honda dealership in a flash.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LouisXander on December 17, 2018, 02:42:32 pm
Funny how the oilcooler died with the XR400?

And it was such a brilliant idea....
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 17, 2018, 06:26:10 pm
More oil is always good but not the panacea for everything.

Here I go again, but the NON-SS valves require more frequent checks. Something extra oil won't fix.

@Dux: everyone that had issues, did so with the intake valves, not the rockers. My CRF before and after SS valves was dramatically different.
The valves required the same frequency of adjustment as my YZ. ( Which was never)

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 17, 2018, 07:24:38 pm
More oil is always good but not the panacea for everything.

Here I go again, but the NON-SS valves require more frequent checks. Something extra oil won't fix.

@Dux: everyone that had issues, did so with the intake valves, not the rockers. My CRF before and after SS valves was dramatically different.
The valves required the same frequency of adjustment as my YZ. ( Which was never)

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk


As I said the bikes we had in our group had no issues in two year intervals valve clearances checked every third meeting but only needed minimal adjustment , maybe you could try to understand that the L is a totally new engine to the old R and X engine , so to compare it to the old engine is totally irrelevant . And most definitely not the same valves .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 17, 2018, 08:22:18 pm
L will be just as capable as the 500 for the kind of DS rides we did.

How can I say that?- ive done long DS trips with a YZ, CRF, XC4, multiple 525, 530, 550..

The only issue, which I still stand by, is that you can't do a valve shimming job in the bush.
My CRF valves were perfectly in spec in my garage the night before our Bushveld trip.
It was out of spec in Vaalwater by the end of day 2.
By the end of day 3, the valves were done.

L needs SS valves at the very least.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

You are not the first one, nor will you be the last to make a mistake in taking valve clearance readings.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 17, 2018, 08:57:13 pm
"Itís no secret that some 2017 Honda CRF450s have suffered breakages of the automatic decompression system and cracked engine cases (on the right side of the engine). This isnít idle gossip, since the MXA wrecking crew was present when several CRF450s had mechanical issues, including one bike that cracked its cases at Hondaís Monster Mountain press intro. MXAís CRF450 had the intake valves go out of adjustment very early in the program.


I know what you are thinking; all brands suffer breakdowns now and then.
I'm too cynical to see this as just another coincidence.

But that's me.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 17, 2018, 09:03:33 pm
"Itís no secret that some 2017 Honda CRF450s have suffered breakages of the automatic decompression system and cracked engine cases (on the right side of the engine). This isnít idle gossip, since the MXA wrecking crew was present when several CRF450s had mechanical issues, including one bike that cracked its cases at Hondaís Monster Mountain press intro. MXAís CRF450 had the intake valves go out of adjustment very early in the program.


I know what you are thinking; all brands suffer breakdowns now and then.
I'm too cynical to see this as just another coincidence.

But that's me.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

How the hell does Honda nurse these fragile rubbish through consecutive Baja races, and happen to come first??
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 17, 2018, 09:08:02 pm
Another assumption I see.

Those were not stock bikes.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on December 17, 2018, 09:38:32 pm
I never understood how Honda and the rest of the USA made the CRFís last!!!

Here they never started and was 50% the bike a WR was reliability wise. Where as in the USA people swear by them. Every single funride or race was marked by a DNF rider mounted on a Crf 250 or 450 with out of spec valves.

Honda just never went big into racing in South Africa which led to massive gaps in knowledge and plans to keep bikes running. In South Africa for every 20 mechanics that have worked on a KTM or Yamaha there might be 1 honda experienced mechanic in racing offroad terms.

Yes this is not a racing bike, but the amount of info on the bike and adjustment for our conditions will be slower than for a Yamaha or KTM.

If the build quality is anything like the new Africa Twin or 250 Rallye it will be a solid bike.


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on December 17, 2018, 10:10:44 pm
ďInto the DustĒ

Thanks for that Kobus had not seen it before ;)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 17, 2018, 10:21:47 pm
Also Youtube ďRedbull Endless SummerĒ, a nice watch
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on December 18, 2018, 07:18:20 am
Another assumption I see.

Those were not stock bikes.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Sjoe,  mens hoef nie 2 en 2 bymekaar te sit om te sien jy probeer n hou onder die belt uitdeel aan Honda nie.
Die bike het skaars grond gevat en jy label dit.
Die feit vd saak is jy gaan niemand oortuig die crf450l is onbevoeg of onbetroubaar nie.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Vis Arend on December 18, 2018, 07:35:17 am
Another assumption I see.

Those were not stock bikes.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Sjoe,  mens hoef nie 2 en 2 bymekaar te sit om te sien jy probeer n hou onder die belt uitdeel aan Honda nie.
Die bike het skaars grond gevat en jy label dit.
Die feit vd saak is jy gaan niemand oortuig die crf450l is onbevoeg of onbetroubaar nie.

+ 1000
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 18, 2018, 08:10:09 am
"Itís no secret that some 2017 Honda CRF450s have suffered breakages of the automatic decompression system and cracked engine cases (on the right side of the engine). This isnít idle gossip, since the MXA wrecking crew was present when several CRF450s had mechanical issues, including one bike that cracked its cases at Hondaís Monster Mountain press intro. MXAís CRF450 had the intake valves go out of adjustment very early in the program.


I know what you are thinking; all brands suffer breakdowns now and then.
I'm too cynical to see this as just another coincidence.

But that's me.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Why are you constantly referring to the MX version , the L and X for that matter as well are very far removed from the point of the discussion .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 18, 2018, 08:11:43 am
Another assumption I see.

Those were not stock bikes.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Sjoe,  mens hoef nie 2 en 2 bymekaar te sit om te sien jy probeer n hou onder die belt uitdeel aan Honda nie
Die bike het skaars grond gevat en jy label dit.
Die feit vd saak is jy gaan niemand oortuig die crf450l is onbevoeg of onbetroubaar nie.

Altie , ek dink hy is net mislik omdat hy n' fiets het wat hy nie kan ry as gevolg van koue weer en sneeu  ;)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: wolf skaap on December 18, 2018, 08:48:57 am
Jislaaik ouens, praat van shooting the messenger.

Gebasseer op hierdie inligting hier benede, het ek die stelling van MXA hier kom plak:
Not at all , that was my very real experience , as I said ,in regional WC enduro's , we had a few 03 MX models used in enduro's that gave crap , but the X was a lot more reliable .
The L engine is based on the new X , which is in turn based on the new generation R and RX engine . A simple thing is the camshaft and valves , the 2017 X had a forked rocker for the exhaust while the cam operated directly on the inlet valves , the 2019 X and L engine have two separate rockers operating the exhaust valves , the cam is moved further forward and the inlet valve operate on short rockers .

???

Maar ek vermoed dat my stellings nou as die geneul van n stiefkind gesien word, so ek laat jul nou met rus.

Groete

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on December 18, 2018, 09:44:22 am
Wolfie , as I said , based on , not the same , you will in all reality find there is nothing in common between the R/RX and the X and L .
Lets put this thing to sleep while we wait for the launch and bikes being available for sale , then we can start talking user friendliness and reliability .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on December 18, 2018, 10:02:48 am
KTM 500 1 x intake valve:  INTAKE VALVE 78936030100 $172.79  = R2400

Incidentally pretty much what I paid for the entire Kibblewhite stainless intake valve kit for my 450X.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intake-Stainless-Conversion-Valve-Spring-Kit-Kibblewhite-30-31230-For-CRF450X/322197362860?fits=Model%3ACRF450X&epid=171236928&hash=item4b047598ac:g:MWIAAOSwMsVXjd3E:rk:2:pf:0

Like I said,  KTM valves are titanium as well, they also need replacement. 1 ride where you suck muddy water through the air filter and you'll likely need to replace titanium intakes.  My Honda will now eat gravel and fart diamonds :laughing4:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 18, 2018, 10:56:23 am
Stock HP

450X 34.5 kW = 46.2 bhp

450L 32.5 kW = 43.5 bhp

Ditch the cat on the L and you should get another 1 or 2 hp. More than enough power anyway. I had a 570 and Husaberg 650 and they are just overkill and cant be ridden by most of us noobs.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on December 18, 2018, 11:04:58 am
Crank HP
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tom van Brits on December 18, 2018, 03:23:05 pm
That got so close to saying something good about the L and leaving it at that Xpat, but then ending it with promoting the 500?  :lol8:

Iíve watched all of those movies referenced and yes theyíre awesome and inspiring.  For this thread, maybe ďInto the DustĒ, where father and son team use previous generations CRF450X, modify them slightly and go on to have a class win in the Baja 1000 is more of a testament to the Lís history?



This is one of those feel good movies, thanks for sharing this Kobus. Although I am not into racing I enjoyed every minute of this movie except for the 'film movie effect' :lol8: and found the story very inspiring. Honda owns Baja like KTM owns the DAKAR.

Both are excellent bikes, but the owners somehow reminds of the old Chev and Ford arguments...  ;) ;D

What matters is to ride and enjoy on your bike of choice. I'll be perfectly happy on either Honda or KTM :laughing4:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on December 18, 2018, 03:33:38 pm
That got so close to saying something good about the L and leaving it at that Xpat, but then ending it with promoting the 500?  :lol8:

Iíve watched all of those movies referenced and yes theyíre awesome and inspiring.  For this thread, maybe ďInto the DustĒ, where father and son team use previous generations CRF450X, modify them slightly and go on to have a class win in the Baja 1000 is more of a testament to the Lís history?



This is one of those feel good movies, thanks for sharing this Kobus. Although I am not into racing I enjoyed every minute of this movie except for the 'film movie effect' :lol8: and found the story very inspiring. Honda owns Baja like KTM owns the DAKAR.

Both are excellent bikes, but the owners somehow reminds of the old Chev and Ford arguments...  ;) ;D

What matters is to ride and enjoy on your bike of choice. I'll be perfectly happy on either Honda or KTM :laughing4:

I predict that Honda will win the Dakar and KTM the Baja  :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on December 18, 2018, 03:38:18 pm
With SS valves....
Simply Standard :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Challa on December 26, 2018, 08:19:58 am
CRF450L listed on Honda SA website.

https://www.honda.co.za/motorcycles/crf450l (https://www.honda.co.za/motorcycles/crf450l)


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: MaxThePanda on December 27, 2018, 10:10:41 pm
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

Actually Iíve owned both for an extensive period and rough toured on both. Thereís actually very little difference. The 500 has a bit more torque, and for that reason is preferable for our purposes.

One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.

If I was buying second hand and price was key Iíd buy on condition not whether it was 450 or 500.

But given the choice, 500, and thatís what I have now.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 28, 2018, 12:28:06 am
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.


Fook they must have been proper average riders or maybe just dof Americans! In fact you probably could have put a ride-on mower in the mix and they also wouldn't have know the difference.  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 28, 2018, 06:02:09 pm
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.


Fook they must have been proper average riders or maybe just dof Americans! In fact you probably could have put a ride-on mower in the mix and they also wouldn't have know the difference.  :imaposer:

Why do people think that adding 50cc's of 4stroke brutality to a 450 will produce a totally different bike?? They are close to each other, for sure.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on December 28, 2018, 06:32:40 pm
As hulle 50cc 2 stroke by n 450 cc 4 stroke bysit.....groot k@k
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 28, 2018, 06:57:51 pm
As hulle 50cc 2 stroke by n 450 cc 4 stroke bysit.....groot k@k

n 2stroke is mos nie lui nie. :deal: :pot:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on December 28, 2018, 07:27:59 pm
Dus waar.
Jammerte ons sien al hoe minder.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on December 28, 2018, 10:34:31 pm
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.


Fook they must have been proper average riders or maybe just dof Americans! In fact you probably could have put a ride-on mower in the mix and they also wouldn't have know the difference.  :imaposer:
Actually top end riders. Go look on YouTube.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: JC on December 28, 2018, 10:40:05 pm
die 1000km service interval is effens minder as waarmee ek gemaklik sal wees, so ek moet 2 keer diens op 'n trip?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 29, 2018, 05:31:27 am
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.


Fook they must have been proper average riders or maybe just dof Americans! In fact you probably could have put a ride-on mower in the mix and they also wouldn't have know the difference.  :imaposer:

Actually top end riders. Go look on YouTube.

So just because the bikes had stickers plakked on them top end riders could not tell the difference? OK average riders maybe but pros?  I call BS.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: lone riderer on December 29, 2018, 12:05:12 pm
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.


One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.


Fook they must have been proper average riders or maybe just dof Americans! In fact you probably could have put a ride-on mower in the mix and they also wouldn't have know the difference.  :imaposer:

Actually top end riders. Go look on YouTube.

So just because the bikes had stickers plakked on them top end riders could not tell the difference? OK average riders maybe but pros?  I call BS.

He said average riders, not pros
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: MaxThePanda on December 29, 2018, 12:20:18 pm
Here it is: https://adbmag.com.au/editorial/450-vs-500-can-pick-difference/

I reckon at least 52.57% of our opinion is controlled by our preconception. Maybe itís 52.58%. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 29, 2018, 01:30:25 pm
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.


One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.


Fook they must have been proper average riders or maybe just dof Americans! In fact you probably could have put a ride-on mower in the mix and they also wouldn't have know the difference.  :imaposer:

Actually top end riders. Go look on YouTube.

So just because the bikes had stickers plakked on them top end riders could not tell the difference? OK average riders maybe but pros?  I call BS.

He said average riders, not pros

Yes but Tau said otherwise.

And thanks MTB for the link. Having read it clearly a punter vs more experienced rider ... and both bikes having things going for them but indeed different.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on December 29, 2018, 01:54:48 pm
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

Actually Iíve owned both for an extensive period and rough toured on both. Thereís actually very little difference. The 500 has a bit more torque, and for that reason is preferable for our purposes.

One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.

If I was buying second hand and price was key Iíd buy on condition not whether it was 450 or 500.

But given the choice, 500, and thatís what I have now.

Fair enough - you have hands on experience with both while i dont.

I have googled blind compatison of the two and this is what i found (not sure if that is what you refered to):https://adbmag.com.au/editorial/450-vs-500-can-pick-difference/ (https://adbmag.com.au/editorial/450-vs-500-can-pick-difference/). The article to my eyes seems to confirm to an extent what i was saying about 500 being more docile and user friendly, but maybe it is just my interpretation.

Now back to topic - when can we expect first sa test rides of this crfl?

Edit: whoops, sorry - i have noticed only now that. MTP already posted the same link. Anyway, the way i read it is that 500 indeed is more docile and user friendly - hence the right bike in ktm lineup for dual sporting
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on December 29, 2018, 02:02:34 pm
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 29, 2018, 02:34:34 pm
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.

It is indeed the same type of bike, and people read "ultra-reliability" in the Honda badge because Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki, just like cars from Japan have invested lots over many years to give us that reliability.

Why do you think people read "ultra-reliability" into a Toyota badge?

Because they are ultra-reliable.

The KTM is fabulous, but after the dongles, zongles, fuel strainers, pumps and worry-factor, I don't know so lekker you know.........
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on December 29, 2018, 02:55:22 pm
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.

It is indeed the same type of bike, and people read "ultra-reliability" in the Honda badge because Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki, just like cars from Japan have invested lots over many years to give us that reliability.

Why do you think people read "ultra-reliability" into a Toyota badge?

Because they are ultra-reliable.

The KTM is fabulous, but after the dongles, zongles, fuel strainers, pumps and worry-factor, I don't know so lekker you know.........

I read "ultra-boring" in a Toyota badge, but maybe thats just me ;)

 I agree with most of what you said, but  not all models are the same across the board. I know of quite a few farked CR450's that had their valves or motors go bang, and don't even mention 450 Kawasaki's. :)
Mates YZ450 just had some engine issues as well.
So it's all relative.

Don't get me wrong though, I like this Honda, I just don't think it's anything more special than a older 450 that's got a flicker kit and some rubber bits to quiet the chain and provide a sense of a cush drive.
But that's great - competition is always good.




Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on December 29, 2018, 02:58:38 pm
That is incorrect. 500 is exactly the bike in ktm lineup ideal for ds duty this L aims at, because of its more relaxed and user friendly engine that can tug along whole day in tricky traction situations withoutgiving rider a fright. Ktm 450 is much more racey and vicious and hence not ideal for this task.

Actually Iíve owned both for an extensive period and rough toured on both. Thereís actually very little difference. The 500 has a bit more torque, and for that reason is preferable for our purposes.

One of the magazines put stickers over the names and average riders struggled to say which was which, believe it or not.

If I was buying second hand and price was key Iíd buy on condition not whether it was 450 or 500.

But given the choice, 500, and thatís what I have now.


Now back to topic - when can we expect first sa test rides of this crfl?


Also waiting patiently.  One sold at Tygerberg Honda already, but none available for test rides yet afaik.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 29, 2018, 03:09:50 pm
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.

It is indeed the same type of bike, and people read "ultra-reliability" in the Honda badge because Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki, just like cars from Japan have invested lots over many years to give us that reliability.

Why do you think people read "ultra-reliability" into a Toyota badge?

Because they are ultra-reliable.

The KTM is fabulous, but after the dongles, zongles, fuel strainers, pumps and worry-factor, I don't know so lekker you know.........

I read "ultra-boring" in a Toyota badge, but maybe thats just me ;)

 I agree with most of what you said, but  not all models are the same across the board. I know of quite a few farked CR450's that had their valves or motors go bang, and don't even mention 450 Kawasaki's. :)
Mates YZ450 just had some engine issues as well.
So it's all relative.

Don't get me wrong though, I like this Honda, I just don't think it's anything more special than a older 450 that's got a flicker kit and some rubber bits to quiet the chain and provide a sense of a cush drive.


That's what I have been saying, and I include the 500/501 "wunderbikes" in here, we have had WR450's around for more than a decade, why suddenly the excitement over the CRF450 and KTM500?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on December 29, 2018, 03:12:45 pm
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.

It is indeed the same type of bike, and people read "ultra-reliability" in the Honda badge because Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki, just like cars from Japan have invested lots over many years to give us that reliability.

Why do you think people read "ultra-reliability" into a Toyota badge?

Because they are ultra-reliable.

The KTM is fabulous, but after the dongles, zongles, fuel strainers, pumps and worry-factor, I don't know so lekker you know.........

I read "ultra-boring" in a Toyota badge, but maybe thats just me ;)

 I agree with most of what you said, but  not all models are the same across the board. I know of quite a few farked CR450's that had their valves or motors go bang, and don't even mention 450 Kawasaki's. :)
Mates YZ450 just had some engine issues as well.
So it's all relative.

Don't get me wrong though, I like this Honda, I just don't think it's anything more special than a older 450 that's got a flicker kit and some rubber bits to quiet the chain and provide a sense of a cush drive.


That's what I have been saying, and I include the 500/501 "wunderbikes" in here, we have had WR450's around for more than a decade, why suddenly the excitement over the CRF450 and KTM500?

Exactly.
Shows you how powerful a few marketing vids and "leaked" images can be. Completely changes mindsets it seems.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 29, 2018, 03:15:32 pm
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.

It is indeed the same type of bike, and people read "ultra-reliability" in the Honda badge because Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki, just like cars from Japan have invested lots over many years to give us that reliability.

Why do you think people read "ultra-reliability" into a Toyota badge?

Because they are ultra-reliable.

The KTM is fabulous, but after the dongles, zongles, fuel strainers, pumps and worry-factor, I don't know so lekker you know.........

I read "ultra-boring" in a Toyota badge, but maybe thats just me ;)

 I agree with most of what you said, but  not all models are the same across the board. I know of quite a few farked CR450's that had their valves or motors go bang, and don't even mention 450 Kawasaki's. :)
Mates YZ450 just had some engine issues as well.
So it's all relative.

Don't get me wrong though, I like this Honda, I just don't think it's anything more special than a older 450 that's got a flicker kit and some rubber bits to quiet the chain and provide a sense of a cush drive.


That's what I have been saying, and I include the 500/501 "wunderbikes" in here, we have had WR450's around for more than a decade, why suddenly the excitement over the CRF450 and KTM500?

Exactly.
Shows you how powerful a few marketing vids and "leaked" images can be. Completely changes mindsets it seems.

Sheep.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: adv on December 29, 2018, 03:24:05 pm
I'm sure it's a lower compression engine which takes more oil. The biggest issue with the 450s was always the lack of oil capacity.

I bought my street legal 06 wr with 500km on the clock and religiously changed the oil every 1000km. The motor eventually went bang (ran a bearing) at 11000km due to my own fault (ran very short gearing and I over revved it in the open gravel bits) I also never changed the timing chain at recommended 3k intervals. Bike was rebuilt and it ran like a champ in motard trim for a long time.

More oil will definitely make a bike more reliable (but still can't cure stupid)

A bike will last or it won't, but mostly due to how It's looked after.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: MaxThePanda on December 29, 2018, 03:49:13 pm
By far the biggest issue separating this from the KTMs at the moment for our purpose is the availability of a big tank. For what I do I'd say 17l is an absolute minimum, and 20 is preferable. AFAIK there isn't anything even close to that on the market yet.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: adv on December 29, 2018, 04:05:19 pm
Won't be long before safari brings one out. I think they are probably busy with it already. On my 650r, 25l means nothing anyways.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bill the Bong on December 29, 2018, 07:03:56 pm
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.

It is indeed the same type of bike, and people read "ultra-reliability" in the Honda badge because Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki, just like cars from Japan have invested lots over many years to give us that reliability.

Why do you think people read "ultra-reliability" into a Toyota badge?

Because they are ultra-reliable.

The KTM is fabulous, but after the dongles, zongles, fuel strainers, pumps and worry-factor, I don't know so lekker you know.........

I read "ultra-boring" in a Toyota badge, but maybe thats just me ;)


Try taking a ride with my wife in her FJ Cruiser.  She uses all of the 200kW in a car that is as wobbly as an old Citroen.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on December 29, 2018, 08:53:29 pm
By far the biggest issue separating this from the KTMs at the moment for our purpose is the availability of a big tank. For what I do I'd say 17l is an absolute minimum, and 20 is preferable. AFAIK there isn't anything even close to that on the market yet.

Just Gas Tanks will have by February  a 16, 20, 25 l tank available for the X, guy will get back to me by early Jan on the L

Also some rear tank options coming out, reading between the lines in his response, sounds like Safari jobs.

The Hondas are very popular with the sheep shaggers, and I imagine Safari will soon soon have their own line out.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: MaxThePanda on December 30, 2018, 06:50:18 am
Sounds like youíre going shopping Dave!!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 30, 2018, 11:31:22 am
The thing is, as much as I agree with Xpat in that I'll also rather have the KTM 500 than this...People will buy this as it comes with the Honda badge (so they read ultra reliability whether true or not) and has flickers and brake lights on the floor. No hassle, no, this or that to get done. It's the same type of bike wheter they want to or don't want to believe it. Honda just marketed it a bit differently.
The rest is moot imho.

It is indeed the same type of bike, and people read "ultra-reliability" in the Honda badge because Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki, just like cars from Japan have invested lots over many years to give us that reliability.

Why do you think people read "ultra-reliability" into a Toyota badge?

Because they are ultra-reliable.

The KTM is fabulous, but after the dongles, zongles, fuel strainers, pumps and worry-factor, I don't know so lekker you know.........

I read "ultra-boring" in a Toyota badge, but maybe thats just me ;)


Try taking a ride with my wife in her FJ Cruiser.  She uses all of the 200kW in a car that is as wobbly as an old Citroen.

Iow the opposite of boring.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 30, 2018, 11:34:53 am
By far the biggest issue separating this from the KTMs at the moment for our purpose is the availability of a big tank. For what I do I'd say 17l is an absolute minimum, and 20 is preferable. AFAIK there isn't anything even close to that on the market yet.

Yes, it's a ridiculous tank capacity, and even getting it to your minimum 17 liters will mean more than doubling the capacity. Is there even place then?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 30, 2018, 06:31:05 pm
Thatís what happens when you facelift an MX bike to a wannabe DS 🤭
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on December 30, 2018, 06:50:53 pm
Thatís what happens when you facelift an MX bike to a wannabe DS 🤭

Same goes for the 500/501.

A tank for the Honda will be out ASAP.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: BiG DoM on December 30, 2018, 07:17:13 pm
Thatís what happens when you facelift an MX bike to a wannabe DS 🤭

Same goes for the 500/501.

A tank for the Honda will be out ASAP.

Exactly.

Ja Safari and the boys must be on it as we talk. Surprised Honda do not just do it themselves instead of recycling stock.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: shark_za on December 31, 2018, 04:19:54 pm
I'm more interested in the 250RX; lets see what Jade Gutzeit can do with it this year.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on January 01, 2019, 04:36:46 pm
I quite enjoy this show and this month they do a review on the CRF450L


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: WildWood on January 01, 2019, 05:28:35 pm
What planet is the bloke from?  No mention of the 500EXC or Husky 501 as competition to this bike. Surely a deliberate omission.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on January 01, 2019, 06:48:56 pm
What planet is the bloke from?  No mention of the 500EXC or Husky 501 as competition to this bike. Surely a deliberate omission.

I saw a review on the Husky FE350 with Everide, that is an amazing machine
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 01, 2019, 10:44:32 pm
What planet is the bloke from?  No mention of the 500EXC or Husky 501 as competition to this bike. Surely a deliberate omission.

I think it may be because the Honda is actually released as a roadworthy bike from the manufacturer, where the KTM/Husky's has to be plated by the dealer or owner.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on January 02, 2019, 02:51:53 pm
What planet is the bloke from?  No mention of the 500EXC or Husky 501 as competition to this bike. Surely a deliberate omission.

I think it may be because the Honda is actually released as a roadworthy bike from the manufacturer, where the KTM/Husky's has to be plated by the dealer or owner.

Well, here that's the case, in EU some countries sell the 500 EXC-F and 350EXC-F plated.  Same case in the US as well. So there it is a direct competitor.
But yeah they are of course competition, it's just a different marketing strategy that Honda is following imho and it's working.

I'd like to see different spec comparisons between this and the regular 450. If indeed there is more oil and if it's "detuned" and so on.
Might make all the difference.




Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on January 02, 2019, 03:16:50 pm
The Honda can be plated in far more countries than the Euro competitors can , that makes a difference in those countries where the KTM / Husky / Beta's do not pass legislation .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on January 02, 2019, 03:50:27 pm
The Honda can be plated in far more countries than the Euro competitors can , that makes a difference in those countries where the KTM / Husky / Beta's do not pass legislation .

Yeah but I reckon if KTM/Husky/Beta add a massive cat to the exhaust to be able to play in those markets they will.
I'm just guessing but maybe that, in the markets that doesn't allow them to plate it because of emissions, KTM/Husky/Beta don't really care too much as  the people who would buy a plated 500, 450 for the road is probably not enough to justify the cost of design, regulations etc.
They also get by with a lot less restrictions than a big company like Honda or Kawasaki.
Restrictions on huge conglomerates are more hectic than smaller companies as well, so it would be interesting to see if KTM decides if it's worth it to do or not.



Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on January 03, 2019, 07:07:00 am
It is not just emissions , we are also looking an sound levels , look at the levels that Honda went to with the L to make it compliant , these things affect performance , add weight and increase price . Start doing the same levels to the Euro bikes and you start looking at performance and weight closer to the Honda , for KTM and Husky it might not be a financial issue but it will most certainly affect Beta a lot more . Now also bear in mind that the Honda will still be eligible in about 10 years time , so maybe in the next few years the Euro's might catch up to the L  ;) .
There is another thing , and that is the Honda factor , Honda have built up a reputation of reliability over the years for a good reason , that factor alone will attract a lot of clients .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on January 03, 2019, 07:36:01 am
@Dux: which countries is CRFL legal in and KTM 500 is not? Give specific examples and your source please.

We have been through this before on this thread and you have been proven wrong when you said that KTM is not 50 states legal in US. It is and has been for years - look up the dirtbikemagazine link I have already sent long time ago proving you wrong on that one. As California is with Europe the most stringent country in terms of emissions and noise control, I wonder what other countries may be even stricter...

KTM must and is complying with the same emission and noise control as this CRFL and has been for years way before this Honda was conceived - it is actually leading the way in this segment and Honda just follows. Here is another related read for those who are interested in facts and not just opinions: https://dirtbikemagazine.com/ktm-500exc-dual-sport-full-test-2/ (https://dirtbikemagazine.com/ktm-500exc-dual-sport-full-test-2/)

The funny part of this whole point is that it doesn't matter - people are not going to buy or not buy this bike because it was first or not. KTM was mentioned in this thread only because it is the obvious competition and as such it is the right benchmark to highlight CRFLs strengths and weaknesses. Most rational people are going to do their own research and make their decision based on their priorities - which may include brand loyalty - anyway. So there is no need to deny reality in things that are easily verifiable (legality of each specific bike).
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 03, 2019, 08:20:32 am
The 500 KTM is indeed street-legal in all 50 states.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on January 03, 2019, 09:05:19 am
@Dux: which countries is CRFL legal in and KTM 500 is not? Give specific examples and your source please.

We have been through this before on this thread and you have been proven wrong when you said that KTM is not 50 states legal in US. It is and has been for years - look up the dirtbikemagazine link I have already sent long time ago proving you wrong on that one. As California is with Europe the most stringent country in terms of emissions and noise control, I wonder what other countries may be even stricter...

KTM must and is complying with the same emission and noise control as this CRFL and has been for years way before this Honda was conceived - it is actually leading the way in this segment and Honda just follows. Here is another related read for those who are interested in facts and not just opinions: https://dirtbikemagazine.com/ktm-500exc-dual-sport-full-test-2/ (https://dirtbikemagazine.com/ktm-500exc-dual-sport-full-test-2/)

The funny part of this whole point is that it doesn't matter - people are not going to buy or not buy this bike because it was first or not. KTM was mentioned in this thread only because it is the obvious competition and as such it is the right benchmark to highlight CRFLs strengths and weaknesses. Most rational people are going to do their own research and make their decision based on their priorities - which may include brand loyalty - anyway. So there is no need to deny reality in things that are easily verifiable (legality of each specific bike).

From Cycle News :

'' The newest bike to this fleet of rides is Hondaís highly anticipated CRF450L. It comes years after people started screaming for street-legal CRF450Xs.
In a sense, the Honda CRF450L represents the future of dual-sport development. Itís the only bike in the test that incorporates a catalytic converter into the exhaust (itís in the 13-pound muffler). Itís also obvious by looking at and riding the 450L that sound control, not just exhaust cleanliness, was a paramount developmental focus. Insulated plastic covers encapsulate the entire running gear and engine. Cushioned sprockets keep the chain from being noisy on rotation. The airbox is hidden deep inside the skeleton, far away from pesky sound meters that could pick up decibel-spiking intake rattle, gurgle or gulp as the CRF combusts.

Yes, the Honda is a compromised machine, in a sense, because of its meticulous development foróand careful final production specs to meetóstreet legality (and off-road) standards with nothing left to chance. Itís very Honda in this sense. And it is meeting future regulations that the United States might not even see.The Honda is Euro 4 compliant , none of the Euro bikes would meet those levels , and to the best of my knowledge that would eliminate large sections of Europe from having a road Legal KTM 500

Even as such, it puts traditional dual-sport performance to shame with modern off-road racing-inspired engine performance and suspension. Also nice is that this bike will likely remain mostly unchanged for the next decade, meaning the aftermarket will soon have the keys to make this into whatever people want. As a platform, the Honda is as solid as the Ride Red brand is in American dirt-bikersí hearts. ''
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on January 03, 2019, 10:15:39 am
@Dux: Ok, thank you for that.

First of all, that article works on conjecture regarding the future road legality of Euro brands - they could easily implement additional changes in the future to keep their bikes legal (with appropriate performance/specs penalty of course), at the end of the day there is nothing ground braking in this Honda (some plastics and foam in swingarm. But it also raises some valid points IMO with regards to different approach of Honda and Euro brands use to deal with this regulatory monster.

Let's start with basic facts here as they stand right now: KTM 500 (and other Euro legal bikes, including most of the other 4 stroke EXC KTMs) are right now (at least for 2019) streel legal in all 50 US, as well as in EU - the most strict regulatory environments out there (quite frankly I don't care if they are legal in Mongolia - which I'm pretty sure they are). Just to be sure, here is an advert from UK ebay selling new 2019 KTM 500 EXC as road legal: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-KTM-500-EXC-F-SIX-DAYS-2019-Model-Road-Legal-Enduro-Bike-Finance-Avail-/132651283950 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-KTM-500-EXC-F-SIX-DAYS-2019-Model-Road-Legal-Enduro-Bike-Finance-Avail-/132651283950).

Where the article is right IMO is in highlighting different approach Honda and Euro brands take to comply with regs. Honda as a mass volume manufacturer with serious dislike of frequent model updates decided to comply not just with the current, but also with the future regulations, in order to not have to mod the bike in the future. Yet, despite this approach even Honda acknowledges potentially diverging regulations between Europe and the rest of the world in the future, as it is coming up with two versions of this bike - 25 HP version for Europe and 40+ HP for the rest of the world. How many 25 HP CRFLs will be sold in Europe I will leave to anybodys imagination.

On the other KTM (and I'm guessing other Euro mfgs) uses more frequent model updates to just keep up with the current regulations, while giving the end customer the best possible performance given the reg constraints valid at the time. Unless regulators will start forcing scraping older models with every new regulation (which is not going to happen - otherwise most cars now in Europe would have to be scraped this year when new regulations became valid), this approach of course gives end customer the best product that still is road legal at the time (and will be possible to buy second hand for many years to come). Whether they will keep this up, or decide to fold this whole road legal thingy in the future is anybody's guess (how difficult it is to add little plastic, catalytic converter which is today available for KTM 500 already, and map with less HP?), but as far as I'm concerned irrelevant, because at least they are giving me the best product now and I can stock up (as I plan to do) on older models so that I can ride this out until hopefully somebody come up with good enough electric bike.

Which approach you prefer is personal choice of course, but I still can't see hordes of customers in Europe getting excited about buying 25HP bike for the price of currently available road legal KTM 500, just because it may still be road legal new 10 years from now (you can of course buy plated second hand bike not complying with latest regs with better performance as there are plenty examples of that). The 40+ version which hopefully will come to RSA is much better option (especially with lack of technical controls one may be able to open it up here, while that is not advisable in Europe and US), but still IMO priced wrong. But the price is by far the easiest to change and I suspect that Honda will lower the price considerably once they will face what I believe will be slow initial uptake in sales. With more favourable price, this bike (the 40+ version) may have good run and indeed tightening future regulations that this bike supposedly already complies with (outside Europe) may bring the competition closer to Honda in terms of performance/weight as they might have to add some of those things Honda already done.

With that said, I'm still not sure why any buyer will worry right now about future regulations that will inevitably make bikes more bland. Actually if one wants to still derive as much enjoyment out of bikes for as long as possible, they should rather stock up on current bikes, as the future ones of any brand will inevitably became more dull - unless some radical unforeseen inovation saves us all.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on January 03, 2019, 10:28:40 am
...and on a COMPLETELY different note!


We are checking later today/tomorrow if our CRF 250 L and Rally LUGGAGE racks - the East/West and the North/South ones - will indeed be a direct fit onto the rear of the CRF 450L...


Ditto (meaning we are also checking...) on the CRF 250L/Rally CAMEL tank to check that it, too, fits, it's just 6 liters, bet we think those extra 6L will be sorely needed on the 450...!


more later, Chris & Team
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on January 03, 2019, 02:51:48 pm
update: Tygerberg got one 450L and it is sold, and has ...left the building...


Canal Walk has one, in a crate! When they uncrate it, we will test-fit the luggage rack.


Cheer, Chris
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on January 03, 2019, 03:58:10 pm
update: Tygerberg got one 450L and it is sold, and has ...let the building...


Canal Walk has one, in a crate! When they uncrate it, we will test-fit the luggage rack.


Cheer, Chris

Price? sorry I found out R125k
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 03, 2019, 05:18:53 pm
later on, in real world, be nice to see where a breathed CRF450L (pipe, filter, fueling, loosened up engine) stand compared to a xr650R (and also weight comparison as well)with a larger tank on the L.
In fact, putting a L and R back to back might make one very interesting read.


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Runner on January 03, 2019, 08:22:27 pm
later on, in real world, be nice to see where a breathed CRF450L (pipe, filter, fueling, loosened up engine) stand compared to a xr650R (and also weight comparison as well)with a larger tank on the L.
In fact, putting a L and R back to back might make one very interesting read.

Why would you want to do that?
Imagine the 650R wins, how fucked is Honda then..
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 03, 2019, 08:36:28 pm
Why? The 650r is in the past.
Is a 650 V strom better than a Dr650?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on January 03, 2019, 08:49:18 pm
later on, in real world, be nice to see where a breathed CRF450L (pipe, filter, fueling, loosened up engine) stand compared to a xr650R (and also weight comparison as well)with a larger tank on the L.
In fact, putting a L and R back to back might make one very interesting read.
On the previous 450X Johnny Campbell said the 650R was faster and more stable in the straight sections of Baja. When it came to the corners the 450 was much better and could change direction much more easy so no surprises really. Over the total race distance who knows. No 690 or 500 could beat the 450X though, it was a graat bike and they always had some of the best riders.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on January 03, 2019, 08:50:35 pm
Would like to see a KX500 vs XR650 vs CRF450X slug it out  :drif:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 03, 2019, 09:03:54 pm
Also chuck in there the rof en onbeskof GS310 for good measure :ricky:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Runner on January 03, 2019, 09:08:35 pm
Why? The 650r is in the past.
Is a 650 V strom better than a Dr650?

What am I missing here?

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on January 03, 2019, 09:34:08 pm
Also chuck in there the rof en onbeskof GS310 for good measure :ricky:

Nope , not fair , gotta give the others a chance
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on January 03, 2019, 09:35:22 pm
Why? The 650r is in the past.
Is a 650 V strom better than a Dr650?

What am I missing here?

I wonder what a new generation XR650R would be like
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 03, 2019, 10:34:55 pm
Would like to see a KX500 vs XR650 vs CRF450X slug it out  :drif:

A appropriately geared KX will almost hit 200, and a XR-R not far behind, the 450 might get asthma.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: husky on January 04, 2019, 07:21:12 am
Off the topic I know but I think Honda missed a big DS trick not equipping the 650R with e start. I loved my XR600 even but the e start KTM 520 was a game changer. But the whole game has moved on.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on January 08, 2019, 09:08:44 am
Wat gaan aan? I would have thought by now there should have been a decent stock at S.A. dealers. Any dogs in S.A. bought/ridden one yet?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: deapsquatter on January 18, 2019, 10:13:19 am
Any dogs in S.A. bought/ridden one yet?
:sip:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on January 18, 2019, 10:32:55 am
Seems after the Dakar no one wants a 450 Honda  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on January 18, 2019, 01:40:32 pm


Quote from: zebra - Flying Brick on January 03, 2019, 02:51:48 pm (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=224637.msg4185900#msg4185900)
update: Tygerberg got one 450L and it is sold, and has ...left the building...


Canal Walk has one, in a crate! When they uncrate it, we will test-fit the luggage rack.


>Cheer, Chris
....CRF 250L luggage rack NOT compatible on CRF 450L, so we are having one made.
Chris & Team


Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on January 18, 2019, 02:54:28 pm
Seems after the Dakar no one wants a 450 Honda  :peepwall:

I do , but the X  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Omninorm on January 18, 2019, 03:49:54 pm
Seems after the Dakar no one wants a 450 Honda  :peepwall:

KTM power and reliability taking  it home.   :peepwall:
Ready to Race!  :deal:

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: SUSTER HESSE on January 19, 2019, 05:56:15 pm
...and on a COMPLETELY different note!


We are checking later today/tomorrow if our CRF 250 L and Rally LUGGAGE racks - the East/West and the North/South ones - will indeed be a direct fit onto the rear of the CRF 450L...


Ditto (meaning we are also checking...) on the CRF 250L/Rally CAMEL tank to check that it, too, fits, it's just 6 liters, bet we think those extra 6L will be sorely needed on the 450...!
Hi Chris, how much is the luggage racks for the CRF250 Rally?

more later, Chris & Team
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on January 21, 2019, 08:16:45 am
Suster Hesse wrote: Hi Chris, how much is the luggage racks for the CRF250 Rally?
[/size]
Hi Suster: we have two models - near identical, one has 'North-South' bars, the other has 'East-West' bars:


[/size]North -South is R1395 incl.
East-West is R1195 incl.

Both in stock.
Cheers
Chris & Team
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on January 22, 2019, 08:45:20 pm
Saw this on Facebook (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/2b8aa61e054a1a9ed7f0f1ea5405e762.jpg)

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 23, 2019, 06:58:48 am
Saw this on Facebook (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/2b8aa61e054a1a9ed7f0f1ea5405e762.jpg)

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

Sjoe, dit sal lekker wees as jy die 450L kan beetkry.
Sal graag jou mening wil hoor.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on January 23, 2019, 07:35:46 am
Saw this on Facebook (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190122/2b8aa61e054a1a9ed7f0f1ea5405e762.jpg)

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

Sjoe, dit sal lekker wees as jy die 450L kan beetkry.
Sal graag jou mening wil hoor.
Ek is deesdae in PE so een van die Kaapse ouens sal moet gaan dat ons kan terugvoer kry.

Sent from my BV6000 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 23, 2019, 07:53:44 am
Ja nee...ek is maar n grondpad survivor, nie n job vir my nie.
Waar is Dux, hy moet gaan.
Jy geniet seker PE, klomp nuwe paadjies om te verower KB?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Dux on January 23, 2019, 08:18:04 am
I can't make it on the 2nd , I think they should supply me one of each of their demo's at a time to do long term testing on  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: deapsquatter on January 23, 2019, 10:18:54 am
I'm going. Will feedback.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on January 23, 2019, 12:08:50 pm
Definitely going, ping Fuzzy Muzzy
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Odd Dog on January 24, 2019, 07:56:20 am
So reading that add it seems you must own a CRF to test ride this one.

"Honda Tygerberg invites our CRF customers to join us..."
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on January 24, 2019, 08:15:46 am
So reading that add it seems you must own a CRF to test ride this one.

"Honda Tygerberg invites our CRF customers to join us..."

Dont have to particularly own one. I have been on "CRF owners" rides with them and we had different brands there
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: JonW on January 29, 2019, 03:23:03 pm
Get this beauty at Rocket Racing in Pinetown for R125k

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on January 29, 2019, 07:34:03 pm
Whats the WR450 retailing now for....?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: tau on January 30, 2019, 06:45:30 pm
Whats the WR450 retailing now for....?
For the New 2019 WR 450 F it is R115000 retail. No flickers, brakelights or horn.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on January 31, 2019, 01:54:43 pm
This guy makes some good points if you are just looking for a good reliable light DS bike and like most of us cant make use of the 450L's performance.

Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on January 31, 2019, 02:13:01 pm
Get this beauty at Rocket Racing in Pinetown for R125k
They do look good !
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: adv on January 31, 2019, 02:14:45 pm
Get this beauty at Rocket Racing in Pinetown for R125k
That's a lot of money for a red drz?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: adv on January 31, 2019, 02:15:00 pm
Whats the WR450 retailing now for....?
Can't compare them.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: deapsquatter on January 31, 2019, 02:23:02 pm
and like most of us cant make use of the 450L's performance.
Thats not gonna be a problem. Has the same power as the 250l however has much more torque.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: deapsquatter on January 31, 2019, 02:29:33 pm
Gave one a good test ride today. Coming from a CRF250L the 450 feels like a 250cc diesel (in a good way!). Power is the same in the high revs and top speed is the same. But the low down torque is really nice. You ride it differently to the L in that you tend to be in a higher gear and just work the torque. No point revving it out as it just gives up .
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: adv on January 31, 2019, 02:34:35 pm
Gave one a good test ride today. Coming from a CRF250L the 450 feels like a 250cc diesel (in a good way!). Power is the same in the high revs and top speed is the same. But the low down torque is really nice. You ride it differently to the L in that you tend to be in a higher gear and just work the torque. No point revving it out as it just gives up .
And would you pay 125k for it?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: deapsquatter on January 31, 2019, 02:38:33 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on January 31, 2019, 02:39:52 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.

Are you saying that the 250 and 450 puts out the same HP, what just over 40hp?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: adv on January 31, 2019, 02:40:28 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.

Are you saying that the 250 and 450 puts out the same HP, what just over 40hp?
I think it's less... Around the 30 mark
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on January 31, 2019, 02:42:36 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.

Are you saying that they brought to SA European version with 25HP and not the US 40+hp version?

Surely they woudln't do that? ???
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on January 31, 2019, 02:44:26 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.

Are you saying that the 250 and 450 puts out the same HP, what just over 40hp?
I think it's less... Around the 30 mark

I can't see the 250 and 450 putting out the same hp, what is the point then?

Edit: From the net the 2018 250L puts out 24.4hp and the 450 does 38.21hp
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: deapsquatter on January 31, 2019, 02:45:58 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.

Are you saying that they brought to SA European version with 25HP and not the US 40+hp version?

Surely they woudln't do that? ???

Yes - they did.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on January 31, 2019, 02:48:07 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.

Are you saying that they brought to SA European version with 25HP and not the US 40+hp version?

Surely they woudln't do that? ???

Yes - they did.

Ok dis 'v fokop  :dousing:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on January 31, 2019, 02:49:43 pm
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on January 31, 2019, 02:50:07 pm
And would you pay 125k for it?
With the other options available - no. Now if could easily bring back the power to the version Honda released in the USA - maybe.

Are you saying that the 250 and 450 puts out the same HP, what just over 40hp?
I think it's less... Around the 30 mark

I can't see the 250 and 450 putting out the same hp, what is the point then?

Edit: From the net the 2018 250L puts out 24.4hp and the 450 does 38.21hp

No - there are two versions of 450L. One European that is restricted much more that road legal US version due to some dumb Euro regulations and puts out only about 25 HP - i.e. about the same as 250 but more torque. US version is less restricted and reportedly puts out about 40+ hp - though Honda for some dumb reason never published any official numbers for that. But by now it was dynoed and the estimate of 40+ hp (on crank) seems reasonable.

I cannot believe that Honda SA would even consider importing the Euro version instead of US. Deapsquatter, are you sure that the 450L here had only 25 hp (i.e. it is Euro version).

And more importantly, did they bring in CRF450X (which has all the good bits of L (like 6 gears, 3 piston rings, lower compression) and doesn't have the unnecessary crap they put on L plus is lighter and more powerul) and if so is it possible to plate it here? And what does X cost here?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on January 31, 2019, 02:50:48 pm
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)

At minimum new ECU as far as I understand. Don't be silly - get X and get it plated.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on January 31, 2019, 02:52:50 pm
I think Japan dictate what can be sold where, remember Africa falls under Europe in most global corporate structures.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on January 31, 2019, 02:55:25 pm
I think Japan dictate what can be sold where, remember Africa falls under Europe in most global corporate structures.

They clearly do. Good luck with the sales  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: deapsquatter on January 31, 2019, 02:58:27 pm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YtLgs3yT4s8CzME__qRYDZ365XoIYWoGCfWJg8V2_BdMc3rJgoHRxMaBJTlqYBIQYCrTXmAtPte56dO-nFoOOro5Di2SCS14czc_m39LCPSJLVhqaBd4OFNYdl9MchqBxi-ShJh0IllJqpzV9-2rSnGq7HOAM5yIkCae0kmeh2vM7oF5GSu3VSeHhWh6EYFlY_S4Ye2l4fkwUyywXi4QWJtuQ4y6bfTKfA6iSwhmcurFW3BA2tGmMxfUVR5t-u_FT7jJr22VxnUDxfIH5WbgoxFwBY01zGPyAuFTNJLDVRspMPd55NanNKr2HrJasOxK5DDu9mZ6auFVOIkws3zK8oD8NrBaoy2AETtJz5dvMGN3RUxOLcfgnfEnN03jf5Z_sh9J8AlCj4TDZ5Dr09heU4yhcUFXam7HmsHWfAs7Fb1AiPr7ScLtxW26ia-kxIgPE8zmPMJYWBnqcc9Dav-KPYtB8ib58PXtC87pBowO49j5zlCkO2M_TaZGhQUlpuNpK_UAMadCfBel4fjqpwZPF9hCwWPl2lnoWmDvrkt58Of1GO6zsToIBWouir7wZ4gC8qllTvFOQN-sWPu_Z8Wz-reGtxyfpmVVG0JhwZydWhHwT5Y6ZVS803FVRp_5zTysTKDpo_rliGcuzZCJYS5_Rfl-GK9hsOFi=w2730-h1460-no)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: OFFROAD FANATICS on January 31, 2019, 03:05:06 pm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YtLgs3yT4s8CzME__qRYDZ365XoIYWoGCfWJg8V2_BdMc3rJgoHRxMaBJTlqYBIQYCrTXmAtPte56dO-nFoOOro5Di2SCS14czc_m39LCPSJLVhqaBd4OFNYdl9MchqBxi-ShJh0IllJqpzV9-2rSnGq7HOAM5yIkCae0kmeh2vM7oF5GSu3VSeHhWh6EYFlY_S4Ye2l4fkwUyywXi4QWJtuQ4y6bfTKfA6iSwhmcurFW3BA2tGmMxfUVR5t-u_FT7jJr22VxnUDxfIH5WbgoxFwBY01zGPyAuFTNJLDVRspMPd55NanNKr2HrJasOxK5DDu9mZ6auFVOIkws3zK8oD8NrBaoy2AETtJz5dvMGN3RUxOLcfgnfEnN03jf5Z_sh9J8AlCj4TDZ5Dr09heU4yhcUFXam7HmsHWfAs7Fb1AiPr7ScLtxW26ia-kxIgPE8zmPMJYWBnqcc9Dav-KPYtB8ib58PXtC87pBowO49j5zlCkO2M_TaZGhQUlpuNpK_UAMadCfBel4fjqpwZPF9hCwWPl2lnoWmDvrkt58Of1GO6zsToIBWouir7wZ4gC8qllTvFOQN-sWPu_Z8Wz-reGtxyfpmVVG0JhwZydWhHwT5Y6ZVS803FVRp_5zTysTKDpo_rliGcuzZCJYS5_Rfl-GK9hsOFi=w2730-h1460-no)

Absolutely a very sad issue this!!
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on January 31, 2019, 03:05:30 pm
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)

At minimum new ECU as far as I understand. Don't be silly - get X and get it plated.

Afaik you don't get the new CRF450X in SA and even on the older models there was an issue with getting them plated. I may be wrong but I think the enatis doc said something along the line of "Offroad Use Only".

I am so fucking disappointed with Honda and I can't believe I'm saying this, I might just end up going the KTM route. At the price of the CRF450L and what you get for that for someone like me who can't spend gazzillions on toys my next dualsport bike is looking like a secondhand KTM500.  And if you have to buy new then spending the extra 20-30k, buying a KTM500 and kitting it out for adventure riding seems to be the way to go.

On the CRF450L as a minimum you will need a larger tank, proper handguards/bark busters, likely need to firm up the suspension if you're going to carry anything on the back. So in the end when you're good to go lets say you're spending around R135k ballpark and then because it would seem you can't really do much about the power restriction you end up with <30hp? Now you're not that far anymore price wise from having a brand new KTM500 kitted to travel.

The US spec CRF450L actually makes sense to me, it is what it says on the brochure, slightly de-tuned dirtbike. The Euro spec is just a joke  :dousing:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on January 31, 2019, 03:14:36 pm
And even with the US spec bike I think they missed something.

If they're already giving you a de-tuned bike that is not meant to be a race bike and doesn't have the performance of the race bike, why not go the 250L route and design it with a better service interval at the very least. If it had say a 5000km oil change interval that might actually have given it the edge it needed. Now it is just an all round 2nd place bike with no feature giving it any possible advantage over the competition.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: drewdza on January 31, 2019, 03:29:58 pm
Okay, so do I have this right.....(big drum roll).................Honda SA is launching a 25 hp 450 dual sport which requires an oil change every 1000km and costs R125k.............. :thumleft:

Just over a year ago I paid less for a blue KTM 690......~10kg heavier but with 75 horses and 10000km service intervals  ???..........

Madness prevails.............
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on January 31, 2019, 10:42:24 pm
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)

At minimum new ECU as far as I understand. Don't be silly - get X and get it plated.

Afaik you don't get the new CRF450X in SA and even on the older models there was an issue with getting them plated. I may be wrong but I think the enatis doc said something along the line of "Offroad Use Only".

I am so fucking disappointed with Honda and I can't believe I'm saying this, I might just end up going the KTM route. At the price of the CRF450L and what you get for that for someone like me who can't spend gazzillions on toys my next dualsport bike is looking like a secondhand KTM500.  And if you have to buy new then spending the extra 20-30k, buying a KTM500 and kitting it out for adventure riding seems to be the way to go.

On the CRF450L as a minimum you will need a larger tank, proper handguards/bark busters, likely need to firm up the suspension if you're going to carry anything on the back. So in the end when you're good to go lets say you're spending around R135k ballpark and then because it would seem you can't really do much about the power restriction you end up with <30hp? Now you're not that far anymore price wise from having a brand new KTM500 kitted to travel.

The US spec CRF450L actually makes sense to me, it is what it says on the brochure, slightly de-tuned dirtbike. The Euro spec is just a joke  :dousing:

I am a huge Honda fan and hate KTM but suddenly the AJP, with it's KTM/Husky motor,  is starting to look like the best bang for your buck buying a new light weight DS bike. It's get on and go with the AJP, I see guys are already touring the world with them without doing anything.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on January 31, 2019, 10:55:55 pm
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)

At minimum new ECU as far as I understand. Don't be silly - get X and get it plated.

Afaik you don't get the new CRF450X in SA and even on the older models there was an issue with getting them plated. I may be wrong but I think the enatis doc said something along the line of "Offroad Use Only".

I am so fucking disappointed with Honda and I can't believe I'm saying this, I might just end up going the KTM route. At the price of the CRF450L and what you get for that for someone like me who can't spend gazzillions on toys my next dualsport bike is looking like a secondhand KTM500.  And if you have to buy new then spending the extra 20-30k, buying a KTM500 and kitting it out for adventure riding seems to be the way to go.

On the CRF450L as a minimum you will need a larger tank, proper handguards/bark busters, likely need to firm up the suspension if you're going to carry anything on the back. So in the end when you're good to go lets say you're spending around R135k ballpark and then because it would seem you can't really do much about the power restriction you end up with <30hp? Now you're not that far anymore price wise from having a brand new KTM500 kitted to travel.

The US spec CRF450L actually makes sense to me, it is what it says on the brochure, slightly de-tuned dirtbike. The Euro spec is just a joke  :dousing:

I am a huge Honda fan and hate KTM but suddenly the AJP, with it's KTM/Husky motor,  is starting to look like the best bang for your buck buying a new light weight DS bike. It's get on and go with the AJP, I see guys are already touring the world with them without doing anything.

If you wanted to tour the world  on CRf450L, you were looking at the wrong bike from the beginning. This is - even if having 45 hp - is not the bike for anything like that  with 1000km  (or realistically 3000 km ) service intervals. This was supposed to be competitor to KTM 500 with similar service intervals for real light weight dual sporting. AJP is in different category than CRF or EXC - much heavier, more rally bike than real dual sport in  the original sense of the word (i.e. plated enduro bike).

You are comparing apples and oranges. Leaving aside the detail that KTM had nothing to do with the AJP motor - it is old pre-KTM Husky motor modified from SOHC to DOHC by BMW.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on January 31, 2019, 11:11:55 pm
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)

At minimum new ECU as far as I understand. Don't be silly - get X and get it plated.

Afaik you don't get the new CRF450X in SA and even on the older models there was an issue with getting them plated. I may be wrong but I think the enatis doc said something along the line of "Offroad Use Only".

I am so fucking disappointed with Honda and I can't believe I'm saying this, I might just end up going the KTM route. At the price of the CRF450L and what you get for that for someone like me who can't spend gazzillions on toys my next dualsport bike is looking like a secondhand KTM500.  And if you have to buy new then spending the extra 20-30k, buying a KTM500 and kitting it out for adventure riding seems to be the way to go.

On the CRF450L as a minimum you will need a larger tank, proper handguards/bark busters, likely need to firm up the suspension if you're going to carry anything on the back. So in the end when you're good to go lets say you're spending around R135k ballpark and then because it would seem you can't really do much about the power restriction you end up with <30hp? Now you're not that far anymore price wise from having a brand new KTM500 kitted to travel.

The US spec CRF450L actually makes sense to me, it is what it says on the brochure, slightly de-tuned dirtbike. The Euro spec is just a joke  :dousing:

I am a huge Honda fan and hate KTM but suddenly the AJP, with it's KTM/Husky motor,  is starting to look like the best bang for your buck buying a new light weight DS bike. It's get on and go with the AJP, I see guys are already touring the world with them without doing anything.

If you wanted to tour the world  on CRf450L, you were looking at the wrong bike from the beginning. This is - even if having 45 hp - is not the bike for anything like that  with 1000km  (or realistically 3000 km ) service intervals. This was supposed to be competitor to KTM 500 with similar service intervals for real light weight dual sporting. AJP is in different category than CRF or EXC - much heavier, more rally bike than real dual sport in  the original sense of the word (i.e. plated enduro bike).

You are comparing apples and oranges. Leaving aside the detail that KTM had nothing to do with the AJP motor - it is old pre-KTM Husky motor modified from SOHC to DOHC by BMW.

Never wanted to tour the world with it, just stating that the AJP is such that it is get on and go. If it's a weekend DS riding with your buddy's or going the long distance and with the CRF you first need to spend some more money on it.  To me the AP ticks more, if not all, the boxes I could ever want in a DS bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 01, 2019, 08:26:01 am
Ja look is actually quite sad that a CRF250L makes more sense than a 450L, I think Honda in the typical Japanese way got stuck between sensibilities and the kind of bike they wanted to bring to the market. Obviously they saw that the 500 was very popular in the States and Australia to name a few big markets. They ended up with a kind off Frankenstein between a street legal bike and something that is still from the racing back round but it certainly did not work out as well as a KTM 500. See the problem is no one worries if a 500's flickers or number plate falls of after the first ride since it's orange but if that should happen to a Honda a lot of engineers in Hamamatsu will get the boot so they had to give and take. I'm sure there will be quite a few happy costumers especially in the States but it seems to fall a bit short of the 500. Maybe they should have stuck to the Japanese formula or slightly heavier bikes but with proper maintenance intervals and every day usability ala DR KLR etc. I would have loved a CRF450L or 450 Rally with a motor that is like the 250L's but with more HP and same service intervals (10 000km) even if it was 150 - 160kg. That I still believe for the average Joe is the best bike to have.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on February 01, 2019, 08:48:42 am
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)

At minimum new ECU as far as I understand. Don't be silly - get X and get it plated.

Afaik you don't get the new CRF450X in SA and even on the older models there was an issue with getting them plated. I may be wrong but I think the enatis doc said something along the line of "Offroad Use Only".

I am so fucking disappointed with Honda and I can't believe I'm saying this, I might just end up going the KTM route. At the price of the CRF450L and what you get for that for someone like me who can't spend gazzillions on toys my next dualsport bike is looking like a secondhand KTM500.  And if you have to buy new then spending the extra 20-30k, buying a KTM500 and kitting it out for adventure riding seems to be the way to go.

On the CRF450L as a minimum you will need a larger tank, proper handguards/bark busters, likely need to firm up the suspension if you're going to carry anything on the back. So in the end when you're good to go lets say you're spending around R135k ballpark and then because it would seem you can't really do much about the power restriction you end up with <30hp? Now you're not that far anymore price wise from having a brand new KTM500 kitted to travel.

The US spec CRF450L actually makes sense to me, it is what it says on the brochure, slightly de-tuned dirtbike. The Euro spec is just a joke  :dousing:

I am a huge Honda fan and hate KTM but suddenly the AJP, with it's KTM/Husky motor,  is starting to look like the best bang for your buck buying a new light weight DS bike. It's get on and go with the AJP, I see guys are already touring the world with them without doing anything.

If you wanted to tour the world  on CRf450L, you were looking at the wrong bike from the beginning. This is - even if having 45 hp - is not the bike for anything like that  with 1000km  (or realistically 3000 km ) service intervals. This was supposed to be competitor to KTM 500 with similar service intervals for real light weight dual sporting. AJP is in different category than CRF or EXC - much heavier, more rally bike than real dual sport in  the original sense of the word (i.e. plated enduro bike).

You are comparing apples and oranges. Leaving aside the detail that KTM had nothing to do with the AJP motor - it is old pre-KTM Husky motor modified from SOHC to DOHC by BMW.

AJP is actually a Cagiva motor fettled by BMW now owned by SWM and built by Italians:deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 01, 2019, 08:52:31 am


You are comparing apples and oranges. Leaving aside the detail that KTM had nothing to do with the AJP motor - it is old pre-KTM Husky motor modified from SOHC to DOHC by BMW.

AJP is actually a Cagiva motor fettled by BMW now owned by SWM :deal:

Or that  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on February 01, 2019, 08:57:56 am


You are comparing apples and oranges. Leaving aside the detail that KTM had nothing to do with the AJP motor - it is old pre-KTM Husky motor modified from SOHC to DOHC by BMW.

AJP is actually a Cagiva motor fettled by BMW now owned by SWM :deal:

Or that  :biggrin:

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Its biggest downfall was always the Italians
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 01, 2019, 09:03:48 am
Italian cars and bikes are just fickle but not always bad. For instance my Alfa and Husky 610 made plenty of noises and flashed warning lights but never left me stranded  :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on February 01, 2019, 10:31:17 am
Guys, why the obsession with oil change interval? Juts because Honda recommends 1000 km does not mean that's what you need to stick to to make the motor last. Use some common sense. Problem is obviously warranty issues, but let's look past that for a moment. How long is the warranty period?

A KTM 500 motor and this Honda 450 motor will be very similiar in design, construction and materials. What is the oil capacity of each?

If the reccomended oil change interval of a bike is 12k km (like the 250L/R), that does not mean it's a good idea to only change it at 12k km. It will depend on the use. If I race enduro's with it and spend every second Saturday in the dunes and on sand, I will change it more regularly.

If I use my 1000 km interval bike for commuting and light touring or in the same manner as a similiarly made and specced 5000 km interval bike, it wont suddenly blow up when you reach 2000 km.

Use proper oil and common sense. The way I would use this bike I would have no problems stretching the intervals to 2000-4000 km. Anyway, once it's out of warranty you do all of this yourself (who takes a dirtbike in for a oil service???), and then it's just the cost of the oil and filters.

I would rather have a Japanese bike with 30k or 50k km's on the clock than a European one. If you only keep a bike for the first 10k km, then whatever. 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Tommy Transalp on February 01, 2019, 11:14:35 am
I reckon if the new CRF450L is uncorked, with all the Eurospec shit removed, it's going to be a different bike altogether.
Spoke to Zane at Honda PMB, and he reckons that's the way to go.... remove the smog kit and put a proper exhaust on, and it will make a big difference.
Oil changes can be stretched to 2500-3000 kms I'm sure. I agree with LoopSoosStroop  :3some: :deal:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 01, 2019, 11:16:19 am
I reckon if the new CRF450L is uncorked, with all the Eurospec shit removed, it's going to be a different bike altogether.
Spoke to Zane at Honda PMB, and he reckons that's the way to go.... remove the smog kit and put a proper exhaust on, and it will make a big difference.
Oil changes can be stretched to 2500-3000 kms I'm sure. I agree with LoopSoosStroop  :3some: :deal:

So that was my hope as well, but seems with a locked ecu uncorking is not happening?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 01, 2019, 11:19:04 am
I reckon if the new CRF450L is uncorked, with all the Eurospec shit removed, it's going to be a different bike altogether.
Spoke to Zane at Honda PMB, and he reckons that's the way to go.... remove the smog kit and put a proper exhaust on, and it will make a big difference.
Oil changes can be stretched to 2500-3000 kms I'm sure. I agree with LoopSoosStroop  :3some: :deal:

If it is Euro spec I'm pretty sure that will require new ECU, as those are lock solid in Europe to avoid tampering. I have seen R8K pricetag for CRF250Rally windscreen. So it would be quite interesting to see how much would new ECU cost - and if it will be available in SA at all considering they are not importing X. But yes, you can try to get one overseas.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on February 01, 2019, 11:31:38 am
Yip I read something about a new ECU required
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on February 01, 2019, 11:33:05 am
Ja sucks that we're getting the euro spec bike. Wonder how easy it is to modify to US spec at least? i.e. can it be uncorked, even partially?

Euro spec = 25hp
US spec = 45hp (I think)

At minimum new ECU as far as I understand. Don't be silly - get X and get it plated.

Afaik you don't get the new CRF450X in SA and even on the older models there was an issue with getting them plated. I may be wrong but I think the enatis doc said something along the line of "Offroad Use Only".

I am so fucking disappointed with Honda and I can't believe I'm saying this, I might just end up going the KTM route. At the price of the CRF450L and what you get for that for someone like me who can't spend gazzillions on toys my next dualsport bike is looking like a secondhand KTM500.  And if you have to buy new then spending the extra 20-30k, buying a KTM500 and kitting it out for adventure riding seems to be the way to go.

On the CRF450L as a minimum you will need a larger tank, proper handguards/bark busters, likely need to firm up the suspension if you're going to carry anything on the back. So in the end when you're good to go lets say you're spending around R135k ballpark and then because it would seem you can't really do much about the power restriction you end up with <30hp? Now you're not that far anymore price wise from having a brand new KTM500 kitted to travel.

The US spec CRF450L actually makes sense to me, it is what it says on the brochure, slightly de-tuned dirtbike. The Euro spec is just a joke  :dousing:

I am a huge Honda fan and hate KTM but suddenly the AJP, with it's KTM/Husky motor,  is starting to look like the best bang for your buck buying a new light weight DS bike. It's get on and go with the AJP, I see guys are already touring the world with them without doing anything.

If you wanted to tour the world  on CRf450L, you were looking at the wrong bike from the beginning. This is - even if having 45 hp - is not the bike for anything like that  with 1000km  (or realistically 3000 km ) service intervals. This was supposed to be competitor to KTM 500 with similar service intervals for real light weight dual sporting. AJP is in different category than CRF or EXC - much heavier, more rally bike than real dual sport in  the original sense of the word (i.e. plated enduro bike).

You are comparing apples and oranges. Leaving aside the detail that KTM had nothing to do with the AJP motor - it is old pre-KTM Husky motor modified ;D from SOHC to DOHC by BMW.

AJP is actually a Cagiva motor fettled by BMW now owned by SWM and built by Italians:deal:

Goeie genade, hoop die ding hou!  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 01, 2019, 11:34:55 am
Bike 125k
Pipe 8-10k ?
ECU 8-10k ?
 :-\

Getting a bit ridiculous imho and I do like Honda's
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 01, 2019, 11:37:15 am
Bike 125k
Pipe 8-10k ?
ECU 8-10k ?
 :-\

Getting a bit ridiculous imho and I do like Honda's

And after all that still noticeably inferior to KTM 500, which is cheaper (though even by R1k) even new. And then of course one can get second hand 500s. Hmmm... :patch:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 01, 2019, 11:43:12 am
And the 500 has proven itself to be very reliable so no way to use that as an excuse to go red
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 01, 2019, 12:05:04 pm
So this is the gist of my disappointment. The US spec bike actually seems exiting judging by the reviews. The EU spec is just sad really.

This recent review again displays a great bike from honda. But for us in SA it's just not going to live up to our expectations.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 01, 2019, 12:10:59 pm
And the first minor mods are making their appearance on youtube.




Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 01, 2019, 12:15:20 pm
I'll be riding one tomorrow, and will update based on the "Avis" test methodology  :ricky:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 01, 2019, 12:17:40 pm
And the first minor mods are making their appearance on youtube.



That license plate mod just sums up the wrongness of the Honda ways and is very symptomatic with this bike. Honda spent  time and expense (paid by the customer of course) designing reinforcement of that rearfender and license plate holder so that it would be sturdy enough to not lose the plate in the dirt (and most probably break the subframe off the bike in the cartwheel situation) and talked about it proudly in the bike's press events, just so that end users now have to saw it off again to save the weight and make it work as it should.

And that will be the fate of most of the mods Honda put on this bike - they will be just discraded into the garbage bin, until the bike will be what it should have been from the beginning - CRF450X with a number plate.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 01, 2019, 12:19:02 pm
I'll be riding one tomorrow, and will update based on the "Avis" test methodology  :ricky:

Lekker, keen to hear your detailed opinion.

Not sure if this has been posted, a link to the mega thread on feedback from owners in the US. https://advrider.com/f/threads/honda-crf450l-mega-thread.1343265/

The US spec bike really looks like what it was meant to be, why oh why can't we get that here.  :xxbah:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 01, 2019, 12:21:54 pm
I'll be riding one tomorrow, and will update based on the "Avis" test methodology  :ricky:
Yes please confirm if it is 24HP, then have a drag race against a CRF250L  :lol8:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 01, 2019, 12:56:43 pm
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 01, 2019, 01:05:53 pm


Snap I was literally just about to post this. Add the other 3 as well.

This dude is pretty much doing a ground up rebuild.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 01, 2019, 01:06:38 pm




Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 01, 2019, 01:18:21 pm





Yep but budget is not an issue and I'm sure he may have some access to HRC stuff as well  :drif:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on February 01, 2019, 01:58:06 pm
It was watching that teardown video that put me off the bike even more - it seems that they have put a dirt bike engine in a road bike - not easy to work on at all
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: zacapa on February 01, 2019, 03:16:18 pm
So Honda SA due to Euro emissions compliance has given us the Euro spec. L ! ?
This means my unrestricted and jetted 2004 XR400R will in every way be a "higher performance" machine than the new 450L  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mapog on February 01, 2019, 09:32:51 pm
Well, they can keep the bike with 24horses.
I believe a WR450f can be plated for much less than this?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: 777 on February 01, 2019, 10:03:03 pm
Just do the right thing and get a 500 exc
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 03, 2019, 09:09:58 pm
Sooooo....I went for a spin..   :thumleft:

A quick visual confirmed to me a typical Honda build quality.
All the components were top notch - even the foot pegs were of aftermarket width.

As this is the "L", not the "X" or "RX" or "EXC" or "FE", the sub frame is sturdy, and will support typical commuter over utilization - but I can imagine it adding weight.
The tyres (imho) is also in support of a commuter role.

Coming from the XR, a physically big bike, and me being tall with Orangutan length arms, I was struck initially by the small ergonomics on the EXC, and now the CRF.
On paper the 450L is heavier than my 650, the reality is it feels as light as the CRF250, and a hell of a lot lighter than the 650.

The chassis is well balanced, and very light to flick around up and over obstacles - I went over some steep, rutted excavations with quite a bit of baby heads, about 3 metres high, and the bike handled that with ease, despite the "lack of power" that I will get to later, and the tyres which actually handled "non sand" trail riding without issue. In the case of slowish trail riding over obstacles, the suspension as set up was spot on.

Starting up and pulling off I had to get used to the Fuel Injection, and throttle response which I found jerky. I suspect the jetting to be on the lean side, and I'm sure some fine tuning will fix.

The engine is corked up and lame if you expect race bike like performance, but it is STEALTH - if I was a commando I will get myself a spray can of matte black and go raid on it.
Initially I was constantly revving the engine to feel vibrations.

Unfortunately, there were real Ferrari's (not the Ross Branch kind) on the track, but I did take it for a spin up the centre road at Killarny.
The gearbox is sweet, shifts are smooth and sure, and the 6 speed gearbox is in perfect support of the de-tuned motor, taking it up to 100km/h in a jiffy.

Can not report on highway speeds, and what speeds it will be able to sustain, but considering the offroad like ergo's - the narrow seat, the upright position etc. 100 will be fine - even on my XR, on tar roads, I stick to 100-110 as my comfort zone.

Once again, on road, it is dead quiet, and considering the purpose of having an almost off road road legal bike, i.e. to commute to riding spots, it is a huge plus.
Unfortunately, no matter how spine tingling awesome the roar of your thumper is to you, the rest of the population does not appreciate it, and more and more riding areas are under threat due to noise pollution.

I can imagine, used for tripping, whether it is Eselbank or Orumpempe, the local communities will also look on favorably.

Onto the track....and truly the first time the lack of power manifested itself, which was a good thing, the standard tyres is not up to the task of talcum sand on underlying hard pack.
I can imagine on big dunes, deep ruts or anything that requires an aggressive technique , the engine to be to be to smothered. I have ridden Garth's 2019 450R, and know what the engine is capable off, and this is nowhere near it.

On the track, once again, the sweet 6 speed, although requiring a bit more shifting, compensated for the lack of power, and the suspension and frame DNA became apparent - it is derived from proper race rigs.

My personal opinion? - keeping in mind that I am of the opinion that any bike (unless by fluke) requires set up in terms of ergonomics and engine performance for personal use.

Aesthetically it is a pleasing bike, I like, which is important.

The physical size of the bike is very suited to town commuting, and trail riding is a joy. Personally, I prefer something a bit roomier for longer distances, but in the 450/500 class, regardless of choice, I will need to invest in bars, maybe "hi" seat, which is a lot easier than strengthening a rear subframe for luggage duties during tripping - speaking of which;

For tripping, fuel will be an issue, or non issue, if you can "wallet" it, see https://specialthings.it/pages/crf450-rx-rally-replica (https://specialthings.it/pages/crf450-rx-rally-replica)

It will never be a mile muncher, but there is not a single 450/500 mile muncher out there. For me, coming of the 650R - I have no shame, I'm trailer trash, and will trailer at the drop of a hat to an offroad trip area like Namibia, Angola etc.

I have learnt over the years, tripping is not racing.  Even in its standard form with the engine as it is, the bike will appeal and satisfy a lot of riders - tripping is after all about relaxing, not about having your arms jerked off by excessive power, and not worrying about reliability - I have an instinctive trust in Honda's to get there and back, and I'm pretty sure the 450L will not disappoint..

Un-corking the bike, and making sure it breathes and exhales like it is supposed to would do wonders. Looking at the 450X stats with whom the L share a cam and cam timing, one can nearly double the power at the expense of the quiet exhaust. I have no doubt it is a matter of time before you will be able to buy a PC or HotCam that will take the engine to RX performance level, but in my opinion that will also be silly - the engine as it is, has the potential that should it be needed, can be unlocked.

I went to the demo, fully expecting a smothered bike, and was thus not so thrown by disappointment that I did not notice all the pro's of  the bike.

All in all it is a very good good quality bike with a lot going for it, and regardless of what the riding gods tell you about the comparable of the showroom floor engine performance, for most mere (honest) mortals the bike will be fine. If you need more power, it is there ...







Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: KarooKid on February 03, 2019, 09:56:40 pm
Great summary Beserker  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 04, 2019, 08:56:48 am
Thanks @Beserker  . So that confirms whats been said before then. Such a cool bike ruined for many by the Euro emissions BS.

But what you're saying at least gives me hope that this is a decent platform, now the question remains how easy to uncork and get some power back.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on February 04, 2019, 11:17:00 am
Thanks @Beserker  . So that confirms whats been said before then. Such a cool bike ruined for many by the Euro emissions BS.

But what you're saying at least gives me hope that this is a decent platform, now the question remains how easy to uncork and get some power back.

I had a look at one at Honda on Friday. Did a quick spin around the parking lot.
They mentioned that there is some dongle or something that is out in the market to unlock the ECU and take it to the normal power spec levels
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on February 04, 2019, 11:47:32 am
Thanks @Beserker  . So that confirms whats been said before then. Such a cool bike ruined for many by the Euro emissions BS.

But what you're saying at least gives me hope that this is a decent platform, now the question remains how easy to uncork and get some power back.

I had a look at one at Honda on Friday. Did a quick spin around the parking lot.
They mentioned that there is some dongle or something that is out in the market to unlock the ECU and take it to the normal power spec levels

That is unfortunately not true.  They are trying to see if there is a way to manipulate/reprogram the ECU, but nothing available yet. 

The power delivery is disappointing, but I doubt that Honda SA Ďselectedí the EU spec option.  Iím pretty sure it was a call from higher up.  (Or maybe I just hope so.  :lol8:)
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Mpandla on February 04, 2019, 11:56:06 am

That is unfortunately not true.  They are trying to see if there is a way to manipulate/reprogram the ECU, but nothing available yet. 

The power delivery is disappointing, but I doubt that Honda SA Ďselectedí the EU spec option.  Iím pretty sure it was a call from higher up.  (Or maybe I just hope so.  :lol8:)

Yeah no idea. Just going on what they told me there on Friday. Cant remember the name of the group they claimed can do it
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 04, 2019, 12:21:05 pm
But what you're saying at least gives me hope that this is a decent platform, now the question remains how easy to uncork and get some power back.

I think it is  more than a decent platform, the components are high quality, the chassis and suspension has the same DNA as the race bikes, and I know what the engine is capable off having had a spin on the 450R.

The transmission is plum, the additional girth down under is not even noticeable - I would imagine the 6 speed to become a standard in this displacement class  as it gives you the necessary ratio spilt to support the 450 low down on the trails as well as sustaining speed on the open road - I love the gear box and shifting, and the way it offsets the inadequacies of the underpowered, choked up  engine.

The sum total of the package offsets the bit you need to do too breathe fire into it.

I had a look at one at Honda on Friday. Did a quick spin around the parking lot.
They mentioned that there is some dongle or something that is out in the market to unlock the ECU and take it to the normal power spec levels

Yip, twisting the throttle you can literally feel the month balls in the air cleaner - it's almost as if I need to stick my finger in there and just fish it out.
I believe there is a re-mapping available, but you need to uncork first.

Insofar the remapping goes, Honda came to the party no issue last year when the DCT had to be re-mapped to a allow a second gear pull away in deep sand, can't see a problem with that.
If not, the Yanks are in general Honda fans, you will probably be able to buy an aftermarket ECU in no time.

There is also swopping it out for the ECU of the 450X
 
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on February 04, 2019, 01:53:54 pm

That is unfortunately not true.  They are trying to see if there is a way to manipulate/reprogram the ECU, but nothing available yet. 

The power delivery is disappointing, but I doubt that Honda SA Ďselectedí the EU spec option.  Iím pretty sure it was a call from higher up.  (Or maybe I just hope so.  :lol8:)

Yeah no idea. Just going on what they told me there on Friday. Cant remember the name of the group they claimed can do it

My statement also a bit tongue in cheek based on hearsay.  :thumleft: :thumleft:  I do hope they come up with a cost effective alternative.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 04, 2019, 03:09:42 pm
Why is the euro bike restricted to 24HP ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kortbroek on February 04, 2019, 03:36:14 pm
Why is the euro bike restricted to 24HP ?

Euro 4 (or is it 5? ) emissions standards or something probably. And because we follow the euro standards we don't get the US spec bikes I suspect.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 04, 2019, 03:46:00 pm
Why is the euro bike restricted to 24HP ?

Euro 4 (or is it 5? ) emissions standards or something probably. And because we follow the euro standards we don't get the US spec bikes I suspect.
So how does a 1290 get away with 160hp, is a twin easier to get through emissions ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 04, 2019, 03:51:13 pm
So how does a 1290 get away with 160hp, is a twin easier to get through emissions ?

You don't realise the full impact of emissions standards - in a year or two you will be hard pressed to find a plastic tank - the guys are already clamping down on the marine industry, there is some serious legislation on the way re: evaporative emissions.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 04, 2019, 03:52:09 pm
Just stupid to enforce Euro4 on SA with the limited number of bikes sold here. I still would like to know how all the Chinese delivery bikes and Takealot's 2T delivery vans gets past that !
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 04, 2019, 03:53:38 pm
So how does a 1290 get away with 160hp, is a twin easier to get through emissions ?

You don't realise the full impact of emissions standards - in a year or two you will be hard pressed to find a plastic tank - the guys are already clamping down on the marine industry, there is some serious legislation on the way re: evaporative emissions.
Every single car just about after late 90's comes with plastic tanks ?
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on February 04, 2019, 05:57:53 pm
Why is the euro bike restricted to 24HP ?

Also has something with it being LAMS (Learner approved motorcycles) certified, which stipulates how much power a motorcycle of a certain engine size/weight can make.

This from an Aussie review:

Quote
The CRF450L is fitted standard with a European-spec ECU that allows the bike fit into the LAMS category, although this ECU offers an even more mellow nature of power. Fortunately, if youíve got an open licence or arenít intending on taking the bike on road, then Honda is offering a genuine ECU for purchase that aligns with the US-spec model.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 04, 2019, 07:22:28 pm
Every single car just about after late 90's comes with plastic tanks ?

It is the roto moulded tanks, injection moulding (an expensive process, and prone to monopolisers) meet the standards - I'm not to technical, but that is the gist of it.
To me it sounds like the typical not impartial industry funded  researched set of standards backed up by industries with access to powerful lobbyists...imho, just saying.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 04, 2019, 07:31:31 pm

Also has something with it being LAMS (Learner approved motorcycles) certified, which stipulates how much power a motorcycle of a certain engine size/weight can make.


This makes a lot of sense - instead of buying a LAMS certified bike, pottering around for 6 months, and then sell and buy something better, you can buy one, and when the time is ripe, just upgrade the ECU.

Great idea for an European nanny state, but we're Africa ffs! where the standards are even less strict than in the USA.

If I was in the market for such a bike, I will definitely consider an OEM upgrade path - unfortunately  adding cost to an already not  to cheap bike.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 04, 2019, 07:41:29 pm

Also has something with it being LAMS (Learner approved motorcycles) certified, which stipulates how much power a motorcycle of a certain engine size/weight can make.


This makes a lot of sense - instead of buying a LAMS certified bike, pottering around for 6 months, and then sell and buy something better, you can buy one, and when the time is ripe, just upgrade the ECU.

Great idea for an European nanny state, but we're Africa ffs! where the standards are even less strict than in the USA.

If I was in the market for such a bike, I will definitely consider an OEM upgrade path - unfortunately  adding cost to an already not  to cheap bike.

This is rubbish explanation IMO. There is no option in Europe to power-up the bike, the ECU is locked - regardless of the licence you have, end of story. The reason isn't any european LAMS, but much stricter upcoming environmental regulations that Honda decided for some reason to comply with already now.

As far as I know SA blindly follows the Euro standards, so the regulations here are actually stricter than in US. The simple proof - XR/DR/KLR were merrily sold in US and AUstralia way past they were discontinued here.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 04, 2019, 07:46:26 pm
And the LAMS generally in Europe works the other way around - i.e. the bike is delivered with full power, which in some key contries cannot be more than double of the allowed LAMS power, and can be limited for people with beginner license. For example one of the rumoured reasons (i think rubish, but anyway) for Honda AT having 95 HP was that it fit the full power limitation, so that the bike can be sold also as LAMS enabled, because half of that power - i.e. 48 HP is still allowed for beginner LAMS limited bike.

So even full powered US version which has somewhere around 45HP would be perfectly legal for LAMS in Europe. Unless there are some power to weight stipulations for LAMS that I may be missing...
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on February 04, 2019, 08:01:43 pm
And the LAMS generally in Europe works the other way around - i.e. the bike is delivered with full power, which in some key contries cannot be more than double of the allowed LAMS power, and can be limited for people with beginner license. For example one of the rumoured reasons (i think rubish, but anyway) for Honda AT having 95 HP was that it fit the full power limitation, so that the bike can be sold also as LAMS enabled, because half of that power - i.e. 48 HP is still allowed for beginner LAMS limited bike.

So even full powered US version which has somewhere around 45HP would be perfectly legal for LAMS in Europe. Unless there are some power to weight stipulations for LAMS that I may be missing...

It is all about power to weight ratio AFAIK.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 04, 2019, 08:06:51 pm
As far as I know SA blindly follows the Euro standards, so the regulations here are actually stricter than in US. The simple proof - XR/DR/KLR were merrily sold in US and AUstralia way past they were discontinued here.

I know, I should have phrased it differently, I was more lamenting the fact that every other standard is below sea level, yet the Euro standard is applied on imports, even though there is no attempt at enforcing it. All it translates to is extra expense to the consumer (think Acropovic) and additional revenue (think import duties)

Don't know about the "locked" ECU, but I am aware of legislation in Europe preventing performance enhancing tampering of certified units, could very well be.
It seems though, from the article quoted, that there is an OEM upgrade path available.

Once again, if I were in the market, it is aspects that I will confirm with Honda.

Maybe ask Honda Tygerberg, they are quite pro active in promoting the two wheeled segment of their operations, with the dealer principle I think, taking a personal interest.

My big interest in this thread, and the one on the KTM 500, is based on the "what if" if I had to replace my current scoot.
My biggest bias towards either of them, based on the riding I do most of the time,  is the small frame size.

Till the CRF (and my preference would have been for the "X") came along, the KTM 500 was the only option, and might still be, as personally I would like to have more ooompf and if not possible on the CRF, sadly, it would not be a contender.

It will be a pity, it is a quality built bike, and looking at the USA model, has a lot of potential.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 04, 2019, 08:15:15 pm
And the LAMS generally in Europe works the other way around - i.e. the bike is delivered with full power, which in some key contries cannot be more than double of the allowed LAMS power, and can be limited for people with beginner license. For example one of the rumoured reasons (i think rubish, but anyway) for Honda AT having 95 HP was that it fit the full power limitation, so that the bike can be sold also as LAMS enabled, because half of that power - i.e. 48 HP is still allowed for beginner LAMS limited bike.

So even full powered US version which has somewhere around 45HP would be perfectly legal for LAMS in Europe. Unless there are some power to weight stipulations for LAMS that I may be missing...

It is all about power to weight ratio AFAIK.

Ok, then I stand corrected.

But definitely no full power version in Europe - the 25hp limitation is completely based on regulations.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 04, 2019, 08:20:02 pm
As far as I know SA blindly follows the Euro standards, so the regulations here are actually stricter than in US. The simple proof - XR/DR/KLR were merrily sold in US and AUstralia way past they were discontinued here.

I know, I should have phrased it differently, I was more lamenting the fact that every other standard is below sea level, yet the Euro standard is applied on imports, even though there is no attempt at enforcing it. All it translates to is extra expense to the consumer (think Acropovic) and additional revenue (think import duties)

Don't know about the "locked" ECU, but I am aware of legislation in Europe preventing performance enhancing tampering of certified units, could very well be.
It seems though, from the article quoted, that there is an OEM upgrade path available.

Once again, if I were in the market, it is aspects that I will confirm with Honda.

Maybe ask Honda Tygerberg, they are quite pro active in promoting the two wheeled segment of their operations, with the dealer principle I think, taking a personal interest.

My big interest in this thread, and the one on the KTM 500, is based on the "what if" if I had to replace my current scoot.
My biggest bias towards either of them, based on the riding I do most of the time,  is the small frame size.

Till the CRF (and my preference would have been for the "X") came along, the KTM 500 was the only option, and might still be, as personally I would like to have more ooompf and if not possible on the CRF, sadly, it would not be a contender.

It will be a pity, it is a quality built bike, and looking at the USA model, has a lot of potential.

The ECU is locked. The Euro's don't play. For example police in Austria carry DB meters on them and impound bikes that exceed limits at random controls.

The same is true in US - KTM 500 EXC in US has also locked ECU and makes reportedly about 39 HP (assuming it is rear wheel, which would make it comparable to CRF450L). Here and I think in Oz for whatever reason it doesn't  ;D. So you have to be carefull which EXC you buy (I suspect there were some prior years EXC that had locked ECU, while XCW used to have full power here). Currently there is only EXC sold here and I believe it is with the full power (and fully tunable) ECU.

Edit: what is funny - I believe all EXC bikes (all CCs) are 50 states road legal in US and I believe the same bikes are also legal in Europe. But I guess they comply only with the current EU nazi regulations, not the upcoming ones like CRF450L. The moral of the story - stock up on the current EXCs before they will get choked down as well. But then - luckily we live in the last outpost of freedom - Africa - so we should be able to work around it.

Same for CRFL - what makes that route a bit silly is IMO prohibitive price when all things are added up.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: teebag on February 06, 2019, 01:17:37 pm
A pretty comprehensive review - US spec

https://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2019-honda-crf450l/#Mxx4TXzeBlMizW14.97
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: sidetrack on February 06, 2019, 01:20:19 pm
I still want to know what the Japanese use to get their DS bikes so heavy ! But it does mean they last longer  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Beserker on February 07, 2019, 08:30:40 am
A pretty comprehensive review - US spec
https://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2019-honda-crf450l/#Mxx4TXzeBlMizW14.97

Quite  a good write up, and reiterates my experience.

Pity about the bike being so "secure" - what a good bike, what a rotten carrot to dangle - although I think the standard bike will suit quite a few people, the USA model even more so.
Pity Honda SA is not bringing in the X - it is so much more suited to adventurising as well as an offroad racer for the majority of the racers, the RX is overkill for them.

I predict the new X, like the previous "X"'s, will become best selling off road bikes state side, for all the qualities I wished for in the "L"
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on February 07, 2019, 11:00:36 am
A pretty comprehensive review - US spec
https://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2019-honda-crf450l/#Mxx4TXzeBlMizW14.97

Quite  a good write up, and reiterates my experience.

Pity about the bike being so "secure" - what a good bike, what a rotten carrot to dangle - although I think the standard bike will suit quite a few people, the USA model even more so.
Pity Honda SA is not bringing in the X - it is so much more suited to adventurising as well as an offroad racer for the majority of the racers, the RX is overkill for them.

I predict the new X, like the previous "X"'s, will become best selling off road bikes state side, for all the qualities I wished for in the "L"

Why would they bring in the X when we can buy the Superior WR.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 07, 2019, 11:03:03 am
A pretty comprehensive review - US spec
https://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2019-honda-crf450l/#Mxx4TXzeBlMizW14.97

Quite  a good write up, and reiterates my experience.

Pity about the bike being so "secure" - what a good bike, what a rotten carrot to dangle - although I think the standard bike will suit quite a few people, the USA model even more so.
Pity Honda SA is not bringing in the X - it is so much more suited to adventurising as well as an offroad racer for the majority of the racers, the RX is overkill for them.

I predict the new X, like the previous "X"'s, will become best selling off road bikes state side, for all the qualities I wished for in the "L"

Why would they bring in the X when we can buy the Superior WR.

With 5 gears? If those would be my only choices, I would go CRFX with 6 gears for dual sporting.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Rough Rider on February 07, 2019, 04:02:59 pm
A pretty comprehensive review - US spec
https://dirtbiketest.com/bike-tests/2019-honda-crf450l/#Mxx4TXzeBlMizW14.97

Quite  a good write up, and reiterates my experience.

Pity about the bike being so "secure" - what a good bike, what a rotten carrot to dangle - although I think the standard bike will suit quite a few people, the USA model even more so.
Pity Honda SA is not bringing in the X - it is so much more suited to adventurising as well as an offroad racer for the majority of the racers, the RX is overkill for them.

I predict the new X, like the previous "X"'s, will become best selling off road bikes state side, for all the qualities I wished for in the "L"

Why would they bring in the X when we can buy the Superior WR.

With 5 gears? If those would be my only choices, I would go CRFX with 6 gears for dual sporting.

Its a wide ratio gearbox, the 5th gear ratio will be similar to the 6th on the Honda, and the spread between the gears will be a bit more. One less gear to worry about  :deal:.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on February 07, 2019, 09:12:22 pm
Its a wide ratio gearbox, the 5th gear ratio will be similar to the 6th on the Honda, and the spread between the gears will be a bit more. One less gear to worry about  :deal:.

Ain't that the truth. I hate 6 speed boxes, and don't try using it as a selling point on me. The less gears the better, especially if there is power available. On a underpowered bike like my Rally 6 gears makes sense.

Ask a SG shape Forester XT Auto. Four gears, and it f-offs in all 4 of them. 2nd is good for 120 kmph.
Title: Re: Honda CRF450L is coming
Post by: Xpat on February 07, 2019, 09:50:57 pm
Its a wide ratio gearbox, the 5th gear ratio will