Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Riding: Plan, Report and Racing => Racing Section => Topic started by: miks on July 31, 2018, 05:13:33 pm

Title: Rallies and the like.
Post by: miks on July 31, 2018, 05:13:33 pm
Howzit guys,

Please can someone assist with some info...
Rally racing is something that has interested me for long. I'm now in a position where I could start working toward preparing a bike and doing a race but am finding it difficult to get the info required.

- when are the Rally races, one day races (Pongola 500 etc.) in SA held throughout the year? I only know of the ones spoken about on WD.
- Which stores/online retailers in SA sell Rally nav. equipment? I see lots online but will have to import.
- Omega, NL Designs - and who else for a nav tower/fairings locally?

I'm roping @Knibbs into this too!   :biggrin:

Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: miks on July 31, 2018, 05:18:16 pm
First step toward making this happen was selling my beloved  690R last week.  :(
But now there is a space in the garage that will likely be taken by a 500.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Welsh on July 31, 2018, 05:20:06 pm
First step toward making this happen was selling my beloved  690R last week.  :(
But now there is a space in the garage that will likely be taken by a 500.  :thumleft:

I would have thought the 450's would be the better race option?
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: miks on July 31, 2018, 06:00:47 pm
It could be, but I'm leaning toward a 500.
Kitting the bike out will take a while and still being able to use the bike for adventure outrides is a need for me  :thumleft: The 500's I'm looking at are already on the road which is less admin for me with another bike.

The main reason for initially selling the 690 was the added weight of the ABS etc which would not be needed for the riding I'm planning on doing.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on July 31, 2018, 07:39:58 pm
miks, the Pongola is not a roadbook navigational rally, only GPS afaik.  That leaves 2 local races that could be done with roadbook navigation; the Tankwa and Kalahari.

Don’t jump in too quickly with roadbook holder, trip and cap.  Keep your bike standard and do the rally light version first.  Just as much fun can be had, but substantially cheaper.  It is always cheaper to buy a rally ready bike than kit it out yourself from scratch.

For equipment, speak to Oom Adie from Rockfox first before you import anything.  I ran both the Rockfox trip and Cap and they were perfect.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: CDog on July 31, 2018, 08:25:14 pm
Hey Miks,
Shot for the 690....... very happy new owner here  :ricky:

When I come pick up the rest of the farkles for the 690, let’s have a chat about the Rally Scene.
I remember being quite daunted and not quite knowing where to start when starting out with my rally interests.

Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: miks on July 31, 2018, 08:47:52 pm
miks, the Pongola is not a roadbook navigational rally, only GPS afaik.  That leaves 2 local races that could be done with roadbook navigation; the Tankwa and Kalahari.

Don’t jump in too quickly with roadbook holder, trip and cap.  Keep your bike standard and do the rally light version first.  Just as much fun can be had, but substantially cheaper.  It is always cheaper to buy a rally ready bike than kit it out yourself from scratch.

For equipment, speak to Oom Adie from Rockfox first before you import anything.  I ran both the Rockfox trip and Cap and they were perfect.

Thanks Kobus.

What is 'rally light"?  :o

I'm keen to get some riding done in events like the Pongola 500 etc. Is there a published race calendar for these things?
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: miks on July 31, 2018, 08:48:25 pm
Hey Miks,
Shot for the 690....... very happy new owner here  :ricky:

When I come pick up the rest of the farkles for the 690, let’s have a chat about the Rally Scene.
I remember being quite daunted and not quite knowing where to start when starting out with my rally interests.

Will take you up on that, thanks Craig!
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on August 01, 2018, 05:20:37 am
miks, the Pongola is not a roadbook navigational rally, only GPS afaik.  That leaves 2 local races that could be done with roadbook navigation; the Tankwa and Kalahari.

Don’t jump in too quickly with roadbook holder, trip and cap.  Keep your bike standard and do the rally light version first.  Just as much fun can be had, but substantially cheaper.  It is always cheaper to buy a rally ready bike than kit it out yourself from scratch.

For equipment, speak to Oom Adie from Rockfox first before you import anything.  I ran both the Rockfox trip and Cap and they were perfect.

Thanks Kobus.

What is 'rally light"?  :o

I'm keen to get some riding done in events like the Pongola 500 etc. Is there a published race calendar for these things?

The late legend Alexander Nel of Amageza fame introduced the West Coast Baja as a shorter and more affordable event to get guys into the rally scene.  You had two options:  Either you participate in the full rally class by navigating with roadbook and all the associated instruments, or you participate in the light (lite?) class by gps navigation only.

Opposed to having a fuel range of +-250km, you only need about 80km in the light class.  It basically means you can take your stock standard enduro bike, fit a gps and participate.

If you look in the racing section board, you’ll see the Tankwa cross country that has this class as part of the event as well, think they state 70km fuel range required.

The Kalahari rally also has an adventure class which could be participated in.

There’s guys here on the forum with WAY more experience than me that will give you some very sound advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: BlueBull2007 on August 05, 2018, 06:00:06 am
Some good pointers here already. :thumleft:

Checkout the various rally RR's as well and also the many rally prep threads. Search function in this thread is your friend. :deal:

if you need some inspiration on racing rallies in general click on the link in my sig line. Or even better ready "From Para to Dakar." in the racing thread.

I dont agree with going for the gps "lite" version of rallies. The whole idea of proper rally racing is that you are able to navigate and race. This gives someone who is good with a roadbook the edge.

Since Alexander, we have yet to see someone take up the banner with long rallies in RSA, but there are still some great events to get stuck into (mentioned already). Otherwise you will need to look at renting a bike and doing something overseas. Not many rallies left this year, apart from the Maroc which is iconic.

You could rent a bike with Desert Rose racing, or a few others, but it is not very cheap. Unfortunately rallies aren't very cheap generally.

I would suggest you go for a light version of nav setup: Use Rockfox's CAP & ICO and get a roadbook holder that mounts on your bars - This is what is meant by a rally light setup. If you scrounge around in the racing section you will find a few guys like markdiver, who made some really awesome 300-600km roadbook loops out of Gauteng that you can use to practice on. If they do give you a roadbook route from a friendly rally person, consider paying a donation if he does not charge you, because it is damn expensive and shit-tonne of work to setup routes and road books.

Also talk to Chris from Flying Brick, he has some good rally stuff as well.

A 500 is a little on the bigger side for a rally bike (not all rallies accept bigger than 450 anymore) but perfect for training on in my view. :thumleft:

All the best, ride safe and do keep us updated with your rally build! :thumleft: :ricky:
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: AlexRG on August 08, 2018, 08:08:42 pm
Speak to the Omega boys... Thomas Eich & Niklaus Lützeler!!!

Not only do they build porny sexy bikes with full Nav but also have roadbook training events. We just had one this past weekend... 913km over 2-days. Perfect for newbies.

I'm selling my 450 in the for sale section:

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=222727.0


Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Ross Riddle on August 19, 2018, 12:35:27 am
Miks,

Give me a shout, i am a complete novice with two Amageza's under my belt (finished both) and a couple of Pongola 500's and i am more than willing to share my experiences as well as any pointers i can. I have no idea how i finished the 2015 Amageza, no road book training, a semi sufficient KTM 450 but a huge learning curve and the bug had bitten.
Also a very amicable community the rally guys most all willing to help guys get involved in the sport.
Planing on doing the Kalahari this year as well and as nervous as i was on my first Amageza.
Zer0 79 692 4028.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: BlueBull2007 on September 14, 2018, 08:12:26 am
Ross are you in on the Kalahari?
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: miks on October 03, 2018, 10:44:33 am
Been a while since I updated here.

Acquired a very nice 500 EXC six days after seeing my 690 go.
Have been advised by many to first get some decent hours on the 500 before considering a conversion with a tower etc.

I'm currently looking whats around locally in terms of racing. There is farm jam hare scramble but the last one I believe is this weekend which I cannot do.
Is there anything else happening for the remainder of this year?
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Dwerg on October 03, 2018, 11:01:10 am
GXCC on the 13th of this month
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: GraZer on October 03, 2018, 11:15:31 am
miks, I see you are in Gauteng somewhere, which is not too far from the Kalahari rally starting on the 13th October. It will be a great opportunity to see what the rally scene is all about.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: SparkMark on October 24, 2018, 03:54:52 pm
Hey guys .... not meaning to Hi-Jack the thread, but I'm wanting to do the same. I would really like to get involved in rallying.

I've got a fully kitted out 701, which is my ADV bike (which I love) ... and I'm lucky enough to soon be owning a 690 RFR.

As it looks, the Tankwa XC and Kalahari rally are the ones to do in SA. Tankwa maybe a little bit more plastic bike oriented.

So first thing I think would be to get some roadblock training ... anyone in CT that can help with that ?

Bike wise ... its either going to be my 701 / 690 or a 450 with "rally light"
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: BlueBull2007 on October 24, 2018, 04:19:28 pm
Mark ping Fuzzy Muzzy, Scrat and Buff.

Between the three of them, they will know or at least get you in touch with the right folks.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: GraZer on October 24, 2018, 05:22:33 pm
Hey guys .... not meaning to Hi-Jack the thread, but I'm wanting to do the same. I would really like to get involved in rallying.

I've got a fully kitted out 701, which is my ADV bike (which I love) ... and I'm lucky enough to soon be owning a 690 RFR.

As it looks, the Tankwa XC and Kalahari rally are the ones to do in SA. Tankwa maybe a little bit more plastic bike oriented.

So first thing I think would be to get some roadblock training ... anyone in CT that can help with that ?

Bike wise ... its either going to be my 701 / 690 or a 450 with "rally light"

I'll be happy to help out.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Weedkiller - Adie on October 24, 2018, 05:49:33 pm
Looking at the success of Tankwa and Kalahari  we will have rally lite towers and aux tanks available next year for both Tankwa and Kalahari.  A few might be 'for rent' as well.

Pic 1. A  unit that was used at Kalahari. Tested it against Garmin for accuracy. 100%.

Adie
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: SparkMark on October 25, 2018, 09:40:31 am
Hey guys .... not meaning to Hi-Jack the thread, but I'm wanting to do the same. I would really like to get involved in rallying.

I've got a fully kitted out 701, which is my ADV bike (which I love) ... and I'm lucky enough to soon be owning a 690 RFR.

As it looks, the Tankwa XC and Kalahari rally are the ones to do in SA. Tankwa maybe a little bit more plastic bike oriented.

So first thing I think would be to get some roadblock training ... anyone in CT that can help with that ?

Bike wise ... its either going to be my 701 / 690 or a 450 with "rally light"

I'll be happy to help out.

Hey Grazer ... that would be awesome !!.

I'll PM you.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Beserker on December 12, 2018, 12:21:04 pm

As it looks, the Tankwa XC and Kalahari rally are the ones to do in SA. Tankwa maybe a little bit more plastic bike oriented.

So first thing I think would be to get some roadblock training ... anyone in CT that can help with that ?

Bike wise ... its either going to be my 701 / 690 or a 450 with "rally light"

I'll be happy to help out.

Hey Grazer ... that would be awesome !!.

I'll PM you.

On plans for the future and the like..

2018 saw the Rally bikes on their own for day 1, sharing day 2 and 3 with the plastics. (Rally bikes start 1st, no tracks to follow, must navigate)

Distances (Liason – Race – Liason):
Day 1: (+/-) 150 – 230 -150
Day 2: (+/-) 0 – 400 – 0
Day 3: (+/-) 0 – 230 – 0

2019 WCOC is looking at extending the rally class with an extra day, so 2 days rally specific, 2 days sharing tracks with plastics:

Day 1: (+/-) 160 – 400 -150
Day 2: (+/-) 150 – 230 -150
Day 2: (+/-) 0 – 400 – 0
Day 3: (+/-) 0 – 230 – 0

There is a huge “plastic” flavour to the event, but it benefits the rally riders immensely:

1.   Keeps costs down, compare the Tankwa to past Amageza’s and the Kalahari
2.   The quality of the track, it is proper, like the one rider remarked, it will definitely test you and the bike, anything that can fail, will fail on the Tankwa – the route is intense, it is definitely not just a matter of stringing servitude roads together.
3.   Bikes and quads only, so the tracks are really bike orientated.
4.   All racing starts from race village, and “clovers” from there – your service crews does not need to pack up and caravan every day (saving $$), they can actually go out and spectate, hence the reason the event also has a “family” feel to it, even the wife and kids come along (the kids have a ball on the farm)
5.   With all the plastics riders, race village is very social.

I know the area where the Kalahari was held quite well from the yonder year Castrol 1000’s, and it does not match the diversity and intense nature of terrain for the Tankwa.
The Tankwa is shaping to become an iconic race, and if all goes according to plan, there will be a unique opportunity for the Adv riders on their 450L/500/501/690/701 to enter the rally class as a separate “rally lite” class, i.e. navigation will be with GPS.

Contact me for any detail:  dave@hardrain.co.za  , 083 66 77 564  - we will be making arrangements to facilitate riders and their bikes from upcountry, and get them to the event.

Reserve the date in your dairy NOW - it is the long weekend in September
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Buff on December 12, 2018, 02:25:05 pm
So it went from "This is to much bloody work for the Rally Class" to "Let's give them an extra day and make it even more work for us"  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Roll on 2019... Bigger & Better... I can't wait, shout when you need help with route selection & marking  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Dwerg on December 12, 2018, 02:42:01 pm
I have to put tankwa in my calendar. Not that it's a deciding factor but is there much off piste riding?
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: BlueBull2007 on December 12, 2018, 03:17:29 pm
Dave, that sounds really awesome. Two Dakar-length stages would be a first for rally in South Africa. :thumleft:

Is there any HP in the route?
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Ri on December 12, 2018, 03:33:47 pm
So it went from "This is to much bloody work for the Rally Class" to "Let's give them an extra day and make it even more work for us"  :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Roll on 2019... Bigger & Better... I can't wait, shout when you need help with route selection & marking  :thumleft:

Is there somewhere one can sign up to volunteer? Doubt I'll be any use on route selection & marking, but happy to help out with other stuff if needed :thumleft:
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Buff on December 12, 2018, 03:56:52 pm
I have to put tankwa in my calendar. Not that it's a deciding factor but is there much off piste riding?

Very little (closer to nothing), the area is too sensitive to go off piste.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: AlexRG on December 13, 2018, 08:05:23 am
Dave, that sounds really awesome. Two Dakar-length stages would be a first for rally in South Africa. :thumleft:

Is there any HP in the route?



Already forgotten Amageza? All stages were Dakar length... so this is not a first in SA.

Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Beserker on December 13, 2018, 08:55:37 pm
I have to put tankwa in my calendar. Not that it's a deciding factor but is there much off piste riding?

Very little (closer to nothing), the area is too sensitive to go off piste.

No, no off piste, apart from the area being to sensitive, it is ruff enuff, see below.
 
On pre running the track, being the celebrity road book checker and local fast f!ck, Donny suggested reversing the one day in order to do the more difficult sections last as doing it first would really tire out the guys for the remainder of the day and raise the risk.

But like I said, no roads, at the most jeep track.

@Dwerg, with the VMX (DR BIG on the forum can confirm it's legit), send your bike down with Timefreight, I collect, you fly down, do the race, fly back
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: BlueBull2007 on December 14, 2018, 06:11:34 am
Dave, that sounds really awesome. Two Dakar-length stages would be a first for rally in South Africa. :thumleft:

Is there any HP in the route?
Already forgotten Amageza? All stages were Dakar length... so this is not a first in SA.

I don't think there has ever been an 800km stage before in RSA. In Botswana, yes, not in South Africa.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Dwerg on December 14, 2018, 07:39:23 am
Dave, that sounds really awesome. Two Dakar-length stages would be a first for rally in South Africa. :thumleft:

Is there any HP in the route?
Already forgotten Amageza? All stages were Dakar length... so this is not a first in SA.

I don't think there has ever been an 800km stage before in RSA. In Botswana, yes, not in South Africa.

2014 day 3. Just under 800kms
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Dwerg on December 14, 2018, 07:43:37 am
I have to put tankwa in my calendar. Not that it's a deciding factor but is there much off piste riding?

Very little (closer to nothing), the area is too sensitive to go off piste.

No, no off piste, apart from the area being to sensitive, it is ruff enuff, see below.
 
On pre running the track, being the celebrity road book checker and local fast f!ck, Donny suggested reversing the one day in order to do the more difficult sections last as doing it first would really tire out the guys for the remainder of the day and raise the risk.

But like I said, no roads, at the most jeep track.

@Dwerg, with the VMX (DR BIG on the forum can confirm it's legit), send your bike down with Timefreight, I collect, you fly down, do the race, fly back

Thanks that sounds awesome. Offtrack is really just wishful thinking, hard to find anywhere in the world. If not 2019, then definitely 2020  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: BlueBull2007 on December 14, 2018, 08:38:09 am
I stand corrected ;D :thumleft:

@ Dave: What are the dates?
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Crossed-up on December 14, 2018, 09:02:40 am
21-24 Sept 2019 AFAIK. Get yourself a reliable rally bike and come ride it.
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Offroad2 on December 14, 2018, 10:11:49 am
I stand corrected ;D :thumleft:

@ Dave: What are the dates?

BB approx. 20-24 Sept 2019
@ Dave thanks for posting the info & @ Buff please we need your help again

It is really good to see the interest, there has been a lot of work done, Farmers, many bridges built over boundary fences, decent camping. Tankwa is special and unique, it’s terrain is far more diverse anyone can imagine from enduro to outback sections, also it will test both bike and man.

Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: GraZer on December 14, 2018, 11:34:03 am
I don't think there has ever been an 800km stage before in RSA. In Botswana, yes, not in South Africa.

Stage 2 at this years Kalahari Rally was 802km
208km Special - 99km Liaison - 288km Special - 207 Liaison
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Beserker on December 14, 2018, 01:47:22 pm
Thanks that sounds awesome. Offtrack is really just wishful thinking, hard to find anywhere in the world. If not 2019, then definitely 2020  :thumleft:

Dwerg,   Stuart Gregory described it as "in the ultra-tough Tankwa Cross-Country Rally"

Trust me, the sentiment was shared by many, and we had guys spending 8 hours + on the special stages.

The one thing we didn't have was a dune section, and some thought it a good idea to mention it to Clive... Clive taking personal pride in his baby, aims to fix it next year   :peepwall:

The dunes that are there, suffice to say, don't come cry afterwards   :deal:

Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Buff on December 14, 2018, 02:29:09 pm
I still think we need to organize a drag race across one of those pans to decide the next days starting order  ;D
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: AlexRG on December 14, 2018, 03:17:53 pm
Dave, that sounds really awesome. Two Dakar-length stages would be a first for rally in South Africa. :thumleft:

Is there any HP in the route?
Already forgotten Amageza? All stages were Dakar length... so this is not a first in SA.

I don't think there has ever been an 800km stage before in RSA. In Botswana, yes, not in South Africa.


2015 Amageza - Stage 7 - 850km - Springbok to Kimberly
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: BlueBull2007 on December 14, 2018, 04:23:45 pm
Alex, my Alzheimer's light is kicking in early. :P
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Beserker on December 14, 2018, 07:20:16 pm
Alex, my Alzheimer's light is kicking in early. :P

Naa, time (and km's) fly when you're having a good time  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Rallies and the like.
Post by: Offroad2 on December 18, 2018, 12:31:39 pm
Thanks that sounds awesome. Offtrack is really just wishful thinking, hard to find anywhere in the world. If not 2019, then definitely 2020  :thumleft:

Dwerg,   Stuart Gregory described it as "in the ultra-tough Tankwa Cross-Country Rally"

Trust me, the sentiment was shared by many, and we had guys spending 8 hours + on the special stages.

The one thing we didn't have was a dune section, and some thought it a good idea to mention it to Clive... Clive taking personal pride in his baby, aims to fix it next year   :peepwall:

The dunes that are there, suffice to say, don't come cry afterwards   :deal:

Hi Guys, there is one big dune I'm going to used next year . Some of us are of the opinion it will sort the men from the boys....................will look for some more but limited in Tankwa

Tankwa 2019 is tough going to be tougher - and require a bit more endurance.