Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => Suzuki DR & DRZ => Topic started by: Inprogress on October 04, 2008, 11:27:09 am

Title: I give up!!! - Suzuki DRZ250 - Updated
Post by: Inprogress on October 04, 2008, 11:27:09 am
Below is the whole saga of my little problem. I give up. Nothing gives me a difinitive answer which gets me on my feet and ordering the part I need, whichever part that is. SO! Who has a ton of experience or knows of someone with a ton of experience that can have a look at my horse here in the Friendly City, Port Elizabeth, or Uitenhage for that matter?

The bike does the following: It starts fine, it idles fine, it runs fine...for about 10 minutes then the engine starts sputtering. I struggles to go uphill (not up embankments, haven't tried). The RPM counter shows that the rpm's drop about roughly 1000 to 2000 rpms depending on the count for a fraction of a second. It also runs fine up and down the rpms when in neutral. It would be best to ride the bike yourself to know what it does. ACE tested the spark coil and rectifier and they are fine. I think it might be the pick up pulse coil, but what do I know, honestly? Any suggestions. I don't mind buying the part, but don't want to buy a part only for the problem to remain.


How are all the Dawgz doing? Crabs, we met, but you thought you where talking to Herms, for that I appologise, I should've at least asked if we have met before.

For all of you who own a DR or DRZ up from 2000, I have a problem with my side stand switch. There is two electronic bits that is part of this side stand kill switch system. The Relay assembly (R210) and what I can only deduct is a AND valve (its a diode that needs an electrical current from two sources before it opens), which funny enough costs R2100. The thing is about as big as a 5c. Anyway, the relay assembly is making a buzzing noise, which is assumed to be indicating that its soul will be leaving the comforts of the motorcycle in the very near future.

SO!? Has anyone of you in die DR clan, removed the entire sidestand system and how have you done it? I know many just remove the switch at the side stand, but for me it does not seem to be that simple. IF I'm gonna pay R210 for a relay and it turns out the diode is shot, then I want the whole safety system removed. I haven't checked the wiring origins and destinations yet, but my hope it that some one else has removed this American safety system.

Other than that, my jerky ride of recent has caused me to remove my carb and give it a thorough clean, and replacing the fuel. It did seem to solve the problem of a jerky ride last night, but it started up again this morning after about 20kms of travel. And since we (Herms and me) noticed this buzzing sound, we have a pretty good idea that it is the cause of the whows. Any help?

I only heard the dawgz name is Mike, the one that rides it like its stolen DRZ400. What is the repair cost buying you, the R12,000? What happend to the beast?
Title: Re: Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch
Post by: letsgofishing on October 04, 2008, 12:31:00 pm
Either zip tie the switch closed. or splice the 2 wires together running to the kick stand. Most guys trace back the wires and cut it under the seat and solder the wires together, sealing with shrink tubing is recommended.

If you want more info about DRZ's go here http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25
and search.
Title: Re: Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch
Post by: sidetrack on October 04, 2008, 04:58:29 pm
Get rid of the sidestand, clutch switch and smog bolt on bits. You don't need any of it, just more things that can give trouble.
Title: Re: Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch
Post by: Inprogress on October 06, 2008, 08:57:00 am
So, here is an intersting situation that I have tracked. After some serious fault finding it seems my Rectifier is dying. Have read up a bit on rectifiers and some of the symptoms mentioned seem to correlate. Also, I took a ride on the bike to make sure the problem is still there with everything connected (by the way I did remove my side stand switch). I checked the rpm counter as well when rinding. The rpm's drop every now and then, at around pullaway and 4000 to 5000 rpms. Unplugged a relay which is in some engineering genius connected to the rectifier, but problem still there. Plugged eveything back in, but unplugged only the rectifier, problem gone. Smooth sailing.

Now, before I fork out R1920 for a new rectifier, I want to know, do any of you Dawgz have a spare rectifier lying around for a 250? Or, do any of you have a DRZ250 of which I can borrow the rectifier from and fit it to my bike to see if a new rectifier will actually solve my problem? As far as I understand, the 400 and 250 share the same rectifier, but I think I will try and confirm that first.

Was thinking about the side stand kill switch. It is a solution to a problem that only happens once to every biker. Why engineer about 100m of wiring and 10 chips and bits just for that? But it is gone now. For now I shall keep the clutch kill switch, for no other reason that I am lazy to remove it.

Thanks Dawgz.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 06, 2008, 05:20:58 pm
When you say unplugged the rectifier are you referring to the plug from the stator with three yellow wires or the one charging your battery ? If its the stator plug you have burned coils, otherwise just check the rectifier by using a multimeter and see if you get a costant 13 V plus when revving the bike. Also check the plug connections. Mine were bad and caused the battery to not charge properly.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 06, 2008, 05:51:48 pm
From the plug that I unplugged, I assumed it was the rectifier that has the heatsink, but yes, the plug has three yellow wires, quite thick one's (compared to the other black with red stripe wire also in the plug, which is also in the heatsink rectifier). So, which one would you say is stuffed? Just measured it, and I get 14 plus volts even at 5000rpm's which then tells me the voltage rectifier (one with heatsink) should be fine, right?
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 06, 2008, 06:55:45 pm
They say a picture is worth a thousand words, so let me paint one....two for that matter. The rectifier, or rather Voltage Rectifier (VR) I am referring to that I unplug is the VR sitting on the frame on the left hand front side. It has three yellow wires at the plug (underneath the tank) including a black/Red one, and a Black/White one. The VR also has heat sink fins.

The other rectifier, or rather Stator with the plug that has only three yellow wires (underneath the seat), I did not touch. Me and Herms have now cleaned the major plugs and cut a short piece of the spark plug lead to make sure there isn't a bad connection. So here are the pictures. I think it is the VR, which is gonna set me back R1920. I do wish I am wrong and that it is a cheaper fault. What do you think.

I can't get the two pictures posted. I will try and post them in new replies, but they paint the picture perfectly. I get an error that stating the attachments are to big or the server does not allow me.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 06, 2008, 06:57:53 pm
Nope, no luck, even at 100kB for both pictures.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 06, 2008, 07:50:35 pm
Ok, how do you measure the stator? I see that by disconnecting the VR, the Stator is also disconnected. But I can't seem to measure the stator. How do you know if the stator is working without it running past the VR? Also, does the stator (magneto) actually run in oil, because it is a first for me. Busy removing the magneto. Should I stop...now? 
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 06, 2008, 07:53:51 pm
On most Suzuki's the three yellow wires comes from the stator normally from the left side of the motor. You should find around 70 V AC, from here it goes into the regulator / rectifier whatever and is converted into 12 V DC. If the regulator is stuffed your battery will drain quickly or your ass will be set on fire (Honda 400's  :o), do you battle to start it ? If the stator has burnt coils you will also have charging problems and as I experienced the bike will lose spark and surge at certain revs as it also drains the battery. Bad coils can still charge your battery and provide power to ride but it's a jerky and messy business  >:( But if you have a good 14 V charge while the motor is running I suspect just a bad connection somewhere, tried another spark plug yet ? All the earths good ? You mentioned a rev counter, what DR do you have ? Herms's Djebel ?
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 06, 2008, 08:01:25 pm
Yes the magneto is in oil, I don't trust measuring parts on the bike it's not 100 % correct. It should sit in the engine cover when you remove it. May have to take the starter gear of first. You will spot a burned coil easily. I'll get a link of my strip down.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 06, 2008, 08:17:54 pm
So, I quickly checked the voltage (in AC, Duh Inprogress) and on two of the wires (the three yellow one's coming from the left) I get about 20VAC and on one of them max 2VAC. This is at idling. Yes I did replace the spark plug. I don't struggle to get it started at all. What you mentioned about the ride being messy at certain revs sound just about what I experience. Will have to check the earths. Yip, I have Herms's DR, it has a GPT rpm counter (aftermarket).

So, I think the magneto, but should I check other things?
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 06, 2008, 08:24:47 pm
Here you go should be simular :

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471360&highlight=

Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Herms on October 06, 2008, 11:16:27 pm
Yip it was my bike, Inprogress took it over from me when I bought the R80G/S.
It never gave me a any problems.....ever. I definitely would not have sold it if I knew
something was wrong with it, especially to my housemate.

Anyway........ I will asset as much possible with the repairs :'(
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 07, 2008, 07:43:47 am
Shame, the poor Dawg is distraught. However he is much possible asset me :thumleft:. Thanks for all the info sidetrack. I almost got to the magneto but I do not have an 8mm socket, but that will be rectified today. Thanks for that threat at Thumpertalk, I've been posting there too but did not get the advice you offered, must be my lack of proper explaination skills. Will update what happened further.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Herms on October 07, 2008, 07:57:13 am
So...... wat maak ons vanaand...... strip ons die stator uit..... skat ek?
 :bueller: :-\
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 07, 2008, 06:42:03 pm
Here is the pictures of the process. I say process because I include the pictures explaining the VR. So, what do you think from the picture of the magneto coils....damaged or do I have them checked...or can I check them myself?

Bugger Sidetrack, congrats on the Thumper award for Baddest DRZ400. Real nice.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/Inprogress_photos/th_VR.jpg) (http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/Inprogress_photos/VR.jpg)
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/Inprogress_photos/th_Statorplug.jpg) (http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/Inprogress_photos/Statorplug.jpg)
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/Inprogress_photos/th_Magneto.jpg) (http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq185/Inprogress_photos/Magneto.jpg)
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 07, 2008, 09:55:45 pm
Hmm difficult to say from here. Some of them look a bit dark in colour, I would have them checked out. Don't know who rewinds coils in PE, up here I used AMT. Very good workmanship, they charged me R350. Also let them check the pickup coil (one that sends the signal for the CDI to fire).
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 08, 2008, 08:06:10 am
That is what I noticed as well. Not one of them look out of place, but all of them look a bit dark, not what I would expect from these coils (thinking about what they do when saying that). I will try and find a place that is worthwhile. Just to clarify, the pickup coils, is that the bit that sits inside the housing, you can coincedentily just see it on the left bottom, right accross the screw? Or does the pickup coil sit somewhere else?

Hey thanks for all the help Sidetrack, I really appreciate this.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Operator on October 08, 2008, 09:20:38 am
InProgess and Herms....

I've got nothing to add, but seeing that I own the same bike, I'm following this thread with a special focus.
Thanks for all your special effort in communicating this whole saga with us.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Watty on October 08, 2008, 09:45:32 am
InProgess and Herms....

I've got nothing to add, but seeing that I own the same bike, I'm following this thread with a special focus.
Thanks for all your special effort in communicating this whole saga with us.  :thumleft:

Ditto.  Although on my bike the sidestand switch was already gutted when I got it.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Herms on October 08, 2008, 10:08:21 am
OK then, tonight we do the ignition switch and take some ohms measurements on the coil windings.

The measurements ought to tell us the condition of the windings......., must say, we are learning a lot.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 08, 2008, 11:08:38 am
That is what I noticed as well. Not one of them look out of place, but all of them look a bit dark, not what I would expect from these coils (thinking about what they do when saying that). I will try and find a place that is worthwhile. Just to clarify, the pickup coils, is that the bit that sits inside the housing, you can coincedentily just see it on the left bottom, right accross the screw? Or does the pickup coil sit somewhere else?

Hey thanks for all the help Sidetrack, I really appreciate this.

Mine had one or two coils that were clearly burnt as in almost charcoal like  ;D I'm not sure if it's normal for coils to get so dark, might be a heat issue. The experts maybe able to tell us. You did say when you unplugged the stator wires the bike ran fine (as long as the battery lasts on it's own) ? If that's the case it must be the stator that is faulty.

Mine :

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/mordies/DSCF6761.jpg)
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 08, 2008, 12:00:13 pm
I'm not riding it currently, but during my fault finding I saw that when unplugging the VR, it ran fine. But I noticed last night, that is why I asked how to measure just the stator, that with the VR unplugged, the stator is unplugged as well...DUH Inprogress. It is in a semi state of stripped. I thought this morning I might as well strip it down some more (just unbolting and screwing stuff, not engine stripping, although that is semi done as well with the stator out) and give it a good clean. I wanted to do it when I got the bike, just couldn't get round to it. Funny how one changes when the goal changes.

I did notice that all the coils look a bit dark to me. My infinite lack of knowledge does not mean to say that the dark coils means that it is busted. Will let you guys know what is happening.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Herms on October 08, 2008, 12:55:20 pm
Nope, I think he unpluged the voltage regulator and took the bike for a spin, then it ran fine.

The electronic instrument panel(SPEEDO) remains on while the the engine losses power for that
brief moment. But the GPT RPM counter that uses the the coil lead as a pick up drops. So that tells me
electricity supply is still there(stator fine), but maybe the coil is on its way out or something affecting the coil.

But nou ja..... multimeter and unlimited supply of coffee,  we'll continue tonight.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 08, 2008, 09:44:41 pm
Ok, so tomorrow I'm gonna take the following to get tested, I think at Ace Auto cause they are close to my job. But let me see where Postma & Postma is located   :book1: So Postma is also close. Ace is just up the street. Ace it is. Where was I..Oh...I'm taking the magneto coils, the pickup with the magneto (can't remove that unless you want to), the VR, and the spark coil.

I had a casualty though. In the process of taking the magneto coils of the casing, I damaged the gasket...lets not experience that exercise anytime soon.

I cleaned any seemingly important connections. I have checked the earth just short of removing it. Might still remove it since I just need to take the carb out...again...to get to the earth screw, unless there is another earth somewhere.

Even removed the neutral switch to check it. After all of this, when all turns out ok, I shall put it all back and if it still messes about riding, then I will be absolutely, most surely, positively perplexed and utterly flabbergasted. Then I shall have to get it to an expert to see if he can find the ghost in the machine.

Until we talk again, have fun.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 11, 2008, 08:46:01 am
Ok, so, I had the spark coil and VR tested at ACE. By the way, Gary is his name right, ACE does not work on bikes anymore, and he needs the specs for the stator to know if anything is wrong. Postma can't test my stator nor do they know who can. Does anybody have a spare DRZ250 or RMZ250 magneto gasket laying around, I suffered a casualty due to being over careful when I removed my stator coils.   :xxbah: DAWG it was a mission to get that gasket off of the casting...jeepers I do not want to do that anytime soon.

Anyway, I'm sure the RMZ250 gasket is the same as the DRZ250, might go and have a look at Suzuki today. They don't have gaskets for either. They are ordering me two (@ R85 I thought 2 is better, since they will be here in 3 to 4 weeks). The only other thing I can check, oh Ace says the stator coils look fine, is the pick-up. Dirtyrocks at Thumper had a similar problem with his bike back in 2001, or sometime, and had the pick-up replaced and the bike ran better that ever. Does any of you know how to measure the pickup. Apparently the pickup needs to have a resistance, don't know what, but have a resistance. If none, like Dirtyrocks, its stuffed. Might play around with multi-meter.

So, if all checks out, I am just gonna put it all back and hope the messy ride is gone. If not, I can only swop parts (Ace mentioned the CDI, maybe) with another DRZ250 and see when the problem stops.

If I can't find a gasket by Wednesday, this problem finding excursion will morph into a bike cleaning exercise. Removing wheels, greasing nipples and then the bikes, cleaning aluminum, maybe some paint, I am repainting the tappet cover cause it started to flake.

Well, since money is tight, warped shortime on the cards, does anybody have some kit to pay forward? Tim of Hammerite white or grey. High heat silver/grey paint? Maybe offer to sandblast and paint my frame...no that's pushing it, sorry, got carried away.

However, I am taking my magneto casting to Suzuki to compare to the RMZ250, positive that the gaskets are interchangeable. Till I update you Dawgz again, have a good ride this weekend.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 11, 2008, 09:10:51 pm
RMZ gasket will never fit, they are worlds apart. You should get something like 100 -120 ohm resotance between the two pick up coil wires. If you battle for a gasket get some Yamabond on there.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 11, 2008, 10:20:08 pm
I had to take a chance with the gaskets. But alas, my substituted reality does not change reality. Yamabond? Never heard of it, like most things the last couple of weeks. Will give it a go cause I think I will become desperate for riding. I did manage to measure the pick-up, but can't recall what it was. I was only looking to get a no-resistance reading because then my problems would be sorted, but there was a reading and I got sad again. Will check tomorrow what the reading is. Thanks yet again.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 12, 2008, 04:36:13 pm
Ok, if I did this right and used the converter right, and understand the multi-meter right, AND I'm not measuring my body's resistance which will mean the same result, I get 500000 ohm. Yes, half a million ohm. I don't see any other means to get an output measure of just ohm. I'll take it to work and ask out electrician to measure it as well and give me a proper answer.

By the way, does it make a difference if it is measured whilst running in the bike as oppose to measuring it whilst it is removed completely from the bike?
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: sidetrack on October 13, 2008, 10:01:04 pm
On the bike off the bike same difference as long as it's plugged out.
Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Frank Warner on October 14, 2008, 01:00:39 am
5Mohms is too high. Yes I'm too lazy to type all those 0's. Get use to SI multipliers.

Battery votalges between 13 and 14 are fine with the engine running .. see www.batteryfaq.org for all you never needed to know about batteries .. does not cover motorcycle alternators though. Nor their rectifire/regulators.



Title: Re: UPDATE - Suzuki DR & DRZ's sidestand switch (Rectifier)
Post by: Inprogress on October 16, 2008, 08:51:38 am
Ok, so, I assembled my horse for two reasons last night: ONE, had to try out Loctite Gasket Shellac Sealer without using a gasket, works great, so far; TWO, maybe, just maybe, eventhough I knew otehrwise, the problems was gone by just the cleaning of all terminals. No, problem still there.

But I did take some notice on what happens. It rides fine, it starts fine, it idles fine, but when it gets warm, the engine heats up properly, the problem is back. I rode for about 15 minutes (in the rain, soaked suit) when the sputtering started to come back little by little. By the time I was riding uphill on a back road, it was REALLY sputtering and struggeling to go uphill. Level road, fine, with occasional sputter if I keep it at constant rpms. My thinking is, what Sidetrack mentioned right in the beginning, the pick-up coil. Now, how do I replace that thing without the stator? I can buy the pick-up for R3500 from Suzuki, and it includes a free stator coil already connected into, saving you the time. Or I can order just a DRZ400 pick-up from RMSTATOR in the US for $45. Get it here, do the math, cheaper. BUT, how do I wire that thing in considering that the wires are moulded into a rubber seal that sits in the side of the magneto cover?

Any ideas? BikeSA advertising for 2nd hand parts? Someone on the whole of SA that can help, for less than R3500? Of course, it might not even be the pick-up, but it makes sense to me. Thoughts Dawgz?