Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => Husqvarna => Topic started by: JacoM on January 30, 2019, 11:24:07 am

Title: 501
Post by: JacoM on January 30, 2019, 11:24:07 am
Question on oil:
the KTM standard (I think!) is Motorex cross power full synthetic
I can not get it off the shelf in Somerset West and considering now to change to Liquid Moly, full synthetic - both are 10W-50
Am I putting the engine or clutch at risk?
Bike was at 34 hour when I got it three weeks ago, and now due for oil change at 45hours
I like this bike - took it now twice to Macasser and also into Elgin mountains and it cured my passion for 2strokes....
Title: Re: 501
Post by: kelly007 on January 30, 2019, 12:12:51 pm
I can't see why not. Also the motul full synthetic is an option. Other option, I work in Somerset west but live in Cape town. Happy to bring motorex from ktm. Its expensive tho

Sent from my SM-J610F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 501
Post by: McKracken on January 30, 2019, 03:32:54 pm
Any oil that meets the specification for viscosity (the 10w50) and clutch friction standards (Jaso ma /ma2) will be fine. Synthetic oils derived from esters are more expensive but are a beer base oil. But for adv, probably not really essential
Title: Re: 501
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on January 30, 2019, 05:56:44 pm
Question on oil:
the KTM standard (I think!) is Motorex cross power full synthetic
I can not get it off the shelf in Somerset West and considering now to change to Liquid Moly, full synthetic - both are 10W-50
Am I putting the engine or clutch at risk?
Bike was at 34 hour when I got it three weeks ago, and now due for oil change at 45hours
I like this bike - took it now twice to Macasser and also into Elgin mountains and it cured my passion for 2strokes....

Can Hanno at Mad Macs not get it for you?

021 852 4851
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on January 31, 2019, 01:55:13 pm
Any oil that meets the specification for viscosity (the 10w50) and clutch friction standards (Jaso ma /ma2) will be fine. Synthetic oils derived from esters are more expensive but are a beer base oil. But for adv, probably not really essential

Treacherous fields trodden here - that's only part of an oil classification, the actual important stuff is completely missing.
So you'll put in recycled P&P oil with the right viscosity, and of course this rubbish won't be detrimental for your clutch?
Be your own guest but I will not.
The prescribed oil classification with the right (prescribed) viscosity is more like it, and although not a given this will likely be a real synthetic oil (for this bike).
Any Jaso brurb is just an option, it's a Japan-only spec.

But believe noone but the Horse's Mouth : https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-classifications/oil-categories

Or here? https://www.oilspecifications.org/
Title: Re: 501
Post by: McKracken on January 31, 2019, 02:51:31 pm
Any oil that meets the specification for viscosity (the 10w50) and clutch friction standards (Jaso ma /ma2) will be fine. Synthetic oils derived from esters are more expensive but are a beer base oil. But for adv, probably not really essential

Treacherous fields trodden here - that's only part of an oil classification, the actual important stuff is completely missing.
So you'll put in recycled P&P oil with the right viscosity, and of course this rubbish won't be detrimental for your clutch?
Be your own guest but I will not.
The prescribed oil classification with the right (prescribed) viscosity is more like it, and although not a given this will likely be a real synthetic oil (for this bike).
Any Jaso brurb is just an option, it's a Japan-only spec.

But believe noone but the Horse's Mouth : https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-classifications/oil-categories

Or here? https://www.oilspecifications.org/

While I realize this is an oil thread,maybe my reply was slightly unclear. My Husky 501 manual specifically states that oils must meet SAE viscosity standards set out, as well as JASO T903 MA standards. A further explanation is given later in the manual as to why these standards are required. I've attached them verbatim.
My reply maybe wasn't clear, I was answering the OP's question: So long as all standards are met, brand names are just brand names. Using non synthetic oil is not meeting standards and would not be a good idea. Jaso is mentioned as using the correct SAE viscosity grade car oil will be bad for clutches as they contain friction modifiers. JASO spec oils are designed to work with wet clutches.
As for JASO being Japan only spec, It is acceped worldwide, I have a British bike that states the same, just as SAE are and american based standards body, they have been adopted worldwide.
Your oilspecs . org link actually has a page explaining JASO standards if you have a look
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on January 31, 2019, 03:37:30 pm
Strange that only Jaso is mentioned and not API - and mentioning only viscosities is pertinently wrong (shoddy manual!).
But go here and see for yourself: https://www.chapmoto.com/bel-ray-works-thumper-racing-4t-10w50-synthetic-ester-blend-engine-oil-parent-344-4162
Any API SM as well as Jaso MA2 oil with the prescribed viscosity will do then!

Oh and Kracken, API rules, Jaso follows, simply due to the fact that the former sets the standards for the world, and the latter only for Japanese vehicles.... bitofadiff if you ask me  :P
Title: Re: 501
Post by: McKracken on January 31, 2019, 05:30:21 pm
Sorry If I am hijacking the thread, but I am learning something here.
BuRP, correct me if I am wrong, but from what reading I have done, the API and Jaso are not equivalent specs:
API SN oil may or may not have friction modifiers, which is a big deal for us  wet clutched motorcyclists.
API SN without the friction modifiers (like the bel ray thumper above) may be Jaso MA complaint.
 But for wet clutches using an API SN that isn't also Jaso MA2 would mean there are additives that are not suitable for the clutches (again the friction modifiers)
From what I can tell the JASO Mx is specifically for motorcycles with wet clutches and the API Sx is a more general standard for cars and bikes.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 31, 2019, 05:38:35 pm
.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on January 31, 2019, 06:41:02 pm
McK,

API & Jaso are parallel gradings.
As mentioned the world (not kidding) adheres to API and Japan to Jaso.
Many oils only have an API grading, for reason to obtain also a Jaso one is costly... and if their marketshare is deemd too small then 'f@kit, we'll skipit'.
Oh, yes, also getting an API grade ain't free, the Wet van Transvaal applies also here  ;)
Normally a manufacturer will list both specs for the oil they recommend, but by what you posted above it seems that Katoom does not.
Quite frankly I find that disturbing as well as unfair, for clearly this is a punt to push their 'fave', in this case Bel Ray.
That used to be Motortex but apparently something somewhere sometime went sour, and now a new fave is present.
Why?
We live in a world of beancounters, and no doubt Katoom will get some kickback from recommending this 'fave' oil.
Do you now have to buy Bel Ray?

If you read here and you think so then you didn't get an iota of what's in this thread, so for you "yes, otherwise it will break!"
For those who can relate if not deduce there's no need to add.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on January 31, 2019, 06:47:02 pm
Rather than edit I'll add this.
Oil with friction modifiers - and this is the stuff which your wet clutch does not like! - are clearly marked as such!
"Energy Saving engine oil" or something alike, you'll see it on the tin.
Friction Modifiers actually work, and yes, one can get fuel savings when using it.
But cars outnumber bikes by a staggering factor, so few warn bikers not to use this stuff for their wet clutch bikes.
But it's simple enough: if you can read this you also can read the label  :P
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on January 31, 2019, 06:52:38 pm
But for wet clutches using an API SN that isn't also Jaso MA2 would mean there are additives that are not suitable for the clutches (again the friction modifiers)

You're putting me on right?
Pull the other one....  :biggrin:
Title: Re: 501
Post by: McKracken on January 31, 2019, 07:10:16 pm
Clearly there's a miscommunication somewhere. We're  largely  saying the same thing. I'm definitely not interested in the brand's recommended by manufacturers. ( I'm always weary of advertising that isn't designed to look like advertising)
I'm talking specifically, the specification for API SN does not specify that friction modifiers are or are not used. That is to say that two oils, can both be API SN grade, one with friction modifiers and one without. One would be suitable for use in bikes, one not. In terms of  standards (and not broad marketing statements like 'improves fuel economy') the jaso ma and ma2 standard will definitely not have the unsuitable friction modifiers for bikes.
Hence I say that they aren't totally equivalent.
As for API standards, I have not seen any in my  modern bikes manuals, but they all state jaso standards. Hence leading with that.

But in practical terms we are in agreement, check the specs, and use what is meant to be used.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 31, 2019, 08:51:58 pm
API & Jaso are parallel gradings.

Surely not.  Did a quick search and Jaso seems to be bike specific.

JASO T 904 : 2006
MOTORCYCLE - MOTORCYCLES - FOUR-STROKE CYCLE GASOLINE ENGINE OILS - FRICTION PROPERTIES TEST FOR THE CLUTCH SYSTEMS


Title: Re: 501
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 31, 2019, 08:53:00 pm
Rather than edit I'll add this.
Oil with friction modifiers - and this is the stuff which your wet clutch does not like! - are clearly marked as such!
"Energy Saving engine oil" or something alike, you'll see it on the tin.
Friction Modifiers actually work, and yes, one can get fuel savings when using it.
But cars outnumber bikes by a staggering factor, so few warn bikers not to use this stuff for their wet clutch bikes.
But it's simple enough: if you can read this you also can read the label  :P

Surely you can't use deduction that if an oil does not say 'energy saving' then it is fine to use in a bike?
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 31, 2019, 09:02:32 pm
It seems we need to take care selecting between Jaso MA and Jaso MB also

https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on January 31, 2019, 09:16:47 pm
Question on oil:
the KTM standard (I think!) is Motorex cross power full synthetic
I can not get it off the shelf in Somerset West and considering now to change to Liquid Moly, full synthetic - both are 10W-50
Am I putting the engine or clutch at risk?
Bike was at 34 hour when I got it three weeks ago, and now due for oil change at 45hours
I like this bike - took it now twice to Macasser and also into Elgin mountains and it cured my passion for 2strokes....

Seems the Motorex and Liqui Moly are both Jaso MA2  thus compatible.

Motorex is a API SL while the Liqui Moly is either SL or SN (the latter I think is a higher standard oil)

https://www.motorex.com/en-us/moto-line/motor-oil/cross-power-4t-sae-10w50-jaso-ma2/
https://shop.liqui-moly.co.za/motorbike-synthetic-4t-10w50-street-435461.html?cat=39633
https://shop.liqui-moly.co.za/img/sku/1502.pdf
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BiG DoM on January 31, 2019, 11:00:33 pm
Liqui Moly is excellent and compatible imo.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on February 02, 2019, 12:21:33 pm
API & Jaso are parallel gradings.

Surely not.  Did a quick search and Jaso seems to be bike specific.

Yes they are, they're both oil grading systems.
Also yes, Jaso is bike specific..... so?

Surely you can't use deduction that if an oil does not say 'energy saving' then it is fine to use in a bike?

Deduction?
I is STATED on the tin if FM's are added, hence becomes a Fact!

(and not broad marketing statements like 'improves fuel economy')

Not broad but very specific, perhaps you missed my "Friction Modifiers actually work, and yes, one can get fuel savings when using it" ?
It's even proven by the fact that your clutch will slip!
It's the only reason why you should not use it in a wet-clutch bike.... but by all means use it in dry-clutch machines, BMW & MotoGuzzi spring to mind here.



I lurv oilfreds.
Everyone has an opinion (me definitely included, and no, I'm hardly an oilboffin), and every time there seem to be people who think there's car oils and bike oils.
If you look at the labels then this seems to be the case: powerful clever marketing indeed.
That's of course the reason why I use Skip in my washing machine, because Omo's for handwashing  :P
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 04, 2019, 08:34:40 am

Surely you can't use deduction that if an oil does not say 'energy saving' then it is fine to use in a bike?

Deduction?
I is STATED on the tin if FM's are added, hence becomes a Fact!

If it says friction modifier added then yes it is a fact that it is included.
If it says nothing then you can't deduct that no FM is included.  It might me but just not stated on the tin.

When it says 'energy saving' you are also deducting that a FM is added. Adding words like 'energy saving' on a tin of oil means nothing.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on February 04, 2019, 08:39:38 am
Liqui Moly is excellent and compatible imo.
I got Liqui Moly from PSS Racinf in somerset west. Did the 45hour oil change over the weekend.
Thanks all
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Sláinte Mhaith on February 04, 2019, 08:41:36 am
Lets say we have determined with certainty the oil is free of friction modifiers or FM.

How do you know that the oil properties are within the specs required for your specific bike?

It is going to be hard to do that without using the Jaso ratings.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on February 04, 2019, 10:16:21 am
How do you know that the oil properties are within the specs required for your specific bike?

Did you actually read this thread?  ???



If so then you are right, everybody else is wrong!
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on March 27, 2019, 12:33:29 pm
So...Who has a 501 on WD's?

My bike came with a steering dampner, which I want to remove due to the "extended" steering distance. Note the black spacer (20mm?) on the photo
My Q : Is a dampner really required on a 501? Will I be worse off without it stability wise?
Some bikes really requires this, others don't (Like an HP2 with its long rake angle is as stable as it gets at speed...)
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on March 28, 2019, 11:00:18 am
Must admit, I cannot keep up with the reply s on this page ;)

Anyhow, will keep trying...Is there a std option available from Husqvarna to install a  key switch on the 2016 501?
Title: Re: 501
Post by: SparkMark on March 28, 2019, 11:30:22 am
So...Who has a 501 on WD's?

My bike came with a steering dampner, which I want to remove due to the "extended" steering distance. Note the black spacer (20mm?) on the photo
My Q : Is a dampner really required on a 501? Will I be worse off without it stability wise?
Some bikes really requires this, others don't (Like an HP2 with its long rake angle is as stable as it gets at speed...)

Hey Jaco ... my bike came with the STD Husky damper. Same issue. I removed it because it raised the bars 15mm, which I don't like. I have fitted the top mount Scotts now, which I find better.

I personally prefer having one then not. It's great for those hard deflections from rocks.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on March 28, 2019, 12:29:32 pm
Must admit, I cannot keep up with the reply s on this page

I read it but was going to say "Jeezz, you have a Scotts damper (= the best!), and now you're half complaining?" but decided not to say that - so I won't.  :P
Perhaps keep it but just mount lower/flatter bars?

Dunno about an OEM-Husky option but mounting a key switch must be quite easy to do.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on March 29, 2019, 09:49:44 am
Must admit, I cannot keep up with the reply s on this page

I read it but was going to say "Jeezz, you have a Scotts damper (= the best!), and now you're half complaining?" but decided not to say that - so I won't.  :P
Perhaps keep it but just mount lower/flatter bars?

Dunno about an OEM-Husky option but mounting a key switch must be quite easy to do.
It's the distance from handle bar to wheel that is bothering me. It interferes with the "feel" of the front wheel.
Mostly only a issue on the sandy hoops of Maccaser - or maybe it is my lack of skill, but by the time I "feel" the sideway movement of the front, it has moved quite a lot off the line, and it takes effort (read o shit moment) to get it on track again. Had a similar issue with my 300, and after I went to the standard handlebar set-up, I felt more in control.
I guess I will look for a "above" handle bar mount then.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on March 31, 2019, 09:21:22 pm
Jaco,

mounting flatter/lower bars will do exactly what you want and more cost effectively, but hey, it's your bike  :thumleft:
Title: Re: 501
Post by: miks on April 01, 2019, 09:03:41 am
Did that cable guide come on the bike? Where can I get one  :thumleft:
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on April 01, 2019, 09:16:12 am
Did that cable guide come on the bike? Where can I get one  :thumleft:
Very easy to make and works!
Take piece of rubber pipe (typical fuel line, say 5 or 6mm internal) and put a cable tie through it, loop around at one end support, then back through the piece of rubber pipe and tie onto the other end support you want - pull tight and done.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: boland on April 16, 2019, 10:42:30 am
I have a FE450 and really never felt the need for a damper. It's a really stable bike
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on May 06, 2019, 08:46:59 am
I had my 501 at Eddie2Race last week for 60hour check-up.
Valves still in spec.
I did notice recently that the bike had more "flame outs" at idle, more so when cold.
It turned out that the fuel filter was dirty and it was replaced
Man..what a difference it made.
The bike pulls now even stronger and  I am concerned that the new rear tyre will not last long   :P
My bike has seen very little dust riding so far so I was very surprised about the dirty fuel filter..
I suggest you keep this in mind and have it checked frequently
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on May 13, 2019, 04:43:43 pm
Just a few photo's taken in the Tankwa this last weekend.
This is the most amazing flippen bike I have ever owned..
So nimble and powerful.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: McKracken on May 14, 2019, 06:15:11 pm
Nice pics, making my twisting wrist itchy...
Did you ever find anything for a key? My idea was to put an isolator in similar to what is required for race cars. Haven't found a suitable spot yet.
Stabilizer outcome? Did you keep it or ditch it?
I am in the final stages of prepping my bike for a run to Port Nolloth and maybe onto SW Botswana..
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on May 14, 2019, 07:30:57 pm
Nice pics, making my twisting wrist itchy...
Did you ever find anything for a key? My idea was to put an isolator in similar to what is required for race cars. Haven't found a suitable spot yet.
Stabilizer outcome? Did you keep it or ditch it?
I am in the final stages of prepping my bike for a run to Port Nolloth and maybe onto SW Botswana..
No to both....The key switch I will sort out later. The higher handle bars with damper is growing on me. Actually not an issue on normal offroad. Only on sand I prefer lower handle bars. For now the 300 will do sand duty at Maccaser
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on May 17, 2019, 10:07:57 am
At the Bikeburn 2019 drag race...501 staying infront of 690 and ...1290 up to about 500m!
https://youtu.be/61RRVjgkvGw
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Mayhem on May 25, 2019, 09:21:41 pm
Just a few photo's taken in the Tankwa this last weekend.
This is the most amazing flippen bike I have ever owned..
So nimble and powerful.

Hey Jaco, we'll get you on a 701 next week  :thumleft:
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on September 09, 2019, 02:09:56 pm
I need a softer and wider seat.
What brand should I be looking at?
thanks
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BiG DoM on September 09, 2019, 03:05:36 pm
I need a softer and wider seat.
What brand should I be looking at?
thanks

Seat Concepts for the win.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: Buff on September 09, 2019, 03:05:53 pm
I rode GJ's 501 last week on some tight technical terrain near Stellenbosch and I cannot believe how easy this bike is to handle. It honestly feels like a 350 in the slow stuff and it doesn't stall out like so many of the big thumpers often do. I was blown away, it's a really lekka bike  :thumleft:
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on September 09, 2019, 04:11:42 pm
I need a softer and wider seat.
What brand should I be looking at?
thanks

Seat Concepts for the win.
HI Big Dom - I see they have quite a few different "models"  - Are you familiar with the range they offer?
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BiG DoM on September 09, 2019, 05:51:57 pm
I need a softer and wider seat.
What brand should I be looking at?
thanks

Seat Concepts for the win.
HI Big Dom - I see they have quite a few different "models"  - Are you familiar with the range they offer?

Essentially they have different heights and then different widths - Comfort and XL. Comfort is already wider than OEM and XL is even wider. They use a better quality foam and a higher seat obviously also has more foam. The comfort comes from a combination of the foam and the width - width very simply gives more surface area on the butt. They widen the seat whre you sit so you still have the same legroom standing to grip the tank etc. Styles depend on the material they cover with - generally their gripper fabric is good with carbon or plain finish sides. The ribbed ones are for enduro - mostly racing and extreme to prevent you slipping backwards on climbs - for adventure use this willgive you see re arse monkey butt if not carefu, so avoid. Some seat options you can buy just the foam and cover which is the cheapest solution.


Your other option is to the local route and get Nithrone to make you a custom seat.
Title: Re: 501
Post by: JacoM on January 06, 2020, 11:36:15 am
I changed to the Acerbis tank in December. The LR tank came as extra when I bought the 501.
It does not have a filter sock at the inlet though.
Do I need to fit something similar to what is on the standard tank?
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on January 06, 2020, 12:50:27 pm
It does not have a filter sock at the inlet though.

A Guglatech filler sock which keeps out debris & water (it does!) is a good idea, and you'll get one from @zebra - Flying Brick
If in CT go pick it up, Chris has good coffee  :P
Title: Re: 501
Post by: BuRP on January 06, 2020, 12:54:27 pm
I rode GJ's 501 last week on some tight technical terrain near Stellenbosch and I cannot believe how easy this bike is to handle. It honestly feels like a 350 in the slow stuff and it doesn't stall out like so many of the big thumpers often do. I was blown away, it's a really lekka bike

I find it handles very close to my 300 TPI, weight nigh on the same, with the biggest diff being it stalls whilst the 300 does not.
Hence I ride it with a clutchfinger when the going gets slow.
Awesome bike this, a real doitall  :thumleft: