Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => About South Africa... => Topic started by: Beebop on March 18, 2019, 03:14:23 pm

Title: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Beebop on March 18, 2019, 03:14:23 pm
While the load shedding is merely an inconvenience to me, other than the cost of running a generator, how
is it affecting the rest on the WD clan, and thus the economy as a whole ?
Will this affect tourism etc.
Lets hear your views.
Rants best left for other places. although we all gatvol

Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 18, 2019, 03:45:33 pm
 Irrigation farmers with big centre pivots have to give +- 8 mm of water per day to maize this time of year. Having all these power cuts it gets impossible to do it in 24 hours.
So less water less tons per hectare. :deal: >:(
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: BikerJan on March 18, 2019, 03:51:51 pm
For me it is also an inconvenience with much longer travel times to clients and meetings, and the cost of running a generator at work, as well as one at home. The gennie in the complex where I live is somewhat thirsty, uses about R 5 500 rand per day worth of diesel
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 18, 2019, 04:03:09 pm
 uses about R 5 500 rand per day worth of diesel

eina hel!!! :o :o
Split between how many home owners?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: BikerJan on March 18, 2019, 04:11:24 pm
uses about R 5 500 rand per day worth of diesel

eina hel!!! :o :o
Split between how many home owners?

Tussen 14 eienaars Chris
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 18, 2019, 04:16:38 pm
uses about R 5 500 rand per day worth of diesel

eina hel!!! :o :o
Split between how many home owners?

Tussen 14 eienaars Chris
Dit kan rof raak na n week se loop per maand. Sal ook nie sommer n hierjy portable gennie daai wees nie!! ;)
Ai sal darem gaaf wees indien mens die brandstof rekening vir Eskom kon stuur en jou geld terug kry, kanse is egter beter dat Bafana Bafana die world cup wen. :P >:(
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 18, 2019, 04:49:19 pm
Besig om draad te maak. Vanoggend n vrag sparre gaan haal in PE, gesels toe met bestuurder by CWI. Hulle begin probleme ondervind met produksie. Die creosoot aanlegte raak agter met die creosoot van pale en sparre. Die proses neem etlike ure en gebruik hitte en druk, waarvoor elektrisiteit gebruik word. Met die kort intervalle van onderbrekings kan hulle nie n batch klaarmaak sonder om geraak te word nie. Dieselfde geld in die draad aanlegte, spesifiek mbt galvanisering. Wanneer die krag af was vir 2 ure neem dit tot 6 ure om al die prosesse weer aan die gang en op optimum temperatuur te kry. Sodra dit bereik word, gaan die krag weer af. Basies een groot fokop.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Pumbaa on March 18, 2019, 07:10:46 pm
I read this as 'besig om draad te trek'

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 18, 2019, 07:46:02 pm
I read this as 'besig om draad te trek'

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Nee, hier is n span draadtrekkers wat die eintlike job doen.  ;D
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Karoo Rider on March 18, 2019, 08:59:34 pm
Taking a hit here at the dairy factory as well, especially the production areas where lots of heating, cooling and precise air pressures are constantly required. The generators on site simply can't run these capacities, as with most generators they're only suppose to keep critical points running for a short while until power is restored.  Having to restart several times daily results in raw product loss, lower output and therefor delivering short on existing orders. 
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on March 18, 2019, 09:16:53 pm
For me it is also an inconvenience with much longer travel times to clients and meetings, and the cost of running a generator at work, as well as one at home.

Same: Loss in work hours. Difficult when you get paid by the hour.
Had to spend many hours on a project configuring the electrical side of AC units so that part of the system can run. Hours that would not be necessary if power was reliable.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 18, 2019, 11:18:57 pm
it doesn't bother me too much, but it's very bad for an already struggling economy - if this isn't sorted in the next week or two, we'll be back in a recession and more job losses - just a pity that it seems to have little effect on election outcomes   :'(
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Manic on March 18, 2019, 11:33:13 pm
I struggled to find a Generator today in PE.
Call after call I was told Sold out, next container will land in April, but that is also sold out.

In the end I bought one from a guy who brought a Container in himself from China. Regte stuk kak gennie but I need my computers to run otherwise my business is at a complete standstill. Okes that do have stock, is decent chit. But hey, I cant pay R25k for a 6kva gennie, or R145k for a 15kva  >:D

Having load shedding from 10am till 15h00 in the day aint no joke.

I saw 3 KFC's that closed doors around 16h00. Other fast food places also. These okes cant afford the price of a gennie that can run their shop, or the fuel to run it in any case. These big machines chow fuel.

Tiger Wheel close to us got a qoute for their shop, R300k. Head Office said no. So when its load shedding they all sit on the pavement and sleep.

This Stage 4 is killing the economy.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: DR BIG 750 on March 19, 2019, 05:05:29 am
Sandton in darkness already , power off.  :-\
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Kaboef on March 19, 2019, 05:39:51 am
Its a mess.


Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: LionBuell on March 19, 2019, 07:00:49 am
When my factory stand, it costs me  about R15k per hour in staff, machine repayments, rent.... +++. Now I hear we have to be patient. How patient will the bank / finance company be come month end. Sick of this and we can do nothing.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: BikerJan on March 19, 2019, 07:22:58 am
When my factory stand, it costs me  about R15k per hour in staff, machine repayments, rent.... +++. Now I hear we have to be patient. How patient will the bank / finance company be come month end. Sick of this and we can do nothing.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Except to invest in a proper generator, with the electrical switches etc to start on it's own when the power go down. I did this about 5 years ago, and although the power generated with this 4 cylinder diesel generator cost about 1.8 times the normal power, it is far cheaper than to have 55 employees sitting around doing nothing. It is a pian in the but because it is one more thing to be regularly tested, and maintained, but so far it has worked exceptionally well, without any hiccup
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Koet on March 19, 2019, 08:00:40 am
I'm worried the diesel and petrol reserves won't last with all the generators running - Eskom also consumes stupid amounts of diesel to run their backup generating units.  When the fuel runs out, how will we carry on?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: IceCreamMan on March 19, 2019, 08:12:27 am
Projects an future investments are also jeopardised by Eskoms inability to provide power. The magnitude of this catastrophe is incalculable. Itís treason.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Kaboef on March 19, 2019, 08:52:19 am
Projects an future investments are also jeopardised by Eskoms inability to provide power. The magnitude of this catastrophe is incalculable. Itís treason.

No, its Africa.

It just us whities who can't adapt.


Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: chicco on March 19, 2019, 09:05:42 am
The knock on effect will be huge. one week or so will be manageble, after 3 weeks of load shedding water supply will be affected, backlog will start at port autorities, supply chain issues not to mention the effect on medical services. The other issue no one is mentioning is eskom back up diesel generators cant run continiusly for such long periods, soon they will be caput.....
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: woody1 on March 19, 2019, 09:10:43 am
Loadshedding is maybe why Makro ONLINE cannot deliver 2 cases of beer since the 3rd of this month :dousing:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Dux on March 19, 2019, 09:46:23 am
For me it is an inconvenience and generally doesn't affect me too much , but I look at my neighbour with all his 3 phase machining equipment who is well and truly shafted , and of course the cost of a 3 phase generator is seriously prohibitive for him .
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 19, 2019, 10:43:35 am
You will be pleased to know, Eskom have issued an RFI for running their Boiler care system.  ::)

"Request for information on the Provision of Technical support staff to operate the Eskom Boiler Plant Health Care system (CARAB) at Eskom Power Plants in Mpumalanga"

Closing date 27th March  8)
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 19, 2019, 12:58:12 pm
Projects an future investments are also jeopardised by Eskoms inability to provide power. The magnitude of this catastrophe is incalculable. Itís treason.

No, its Africa.

It just us whities who can't adapt.

It is many things, but "its Africa" it is not.  It was after all the Americans that coined the phrase "rolling blackouts".   ;)



Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: LionBuell on March 19, 2019, 01:56:42 pm
When my factory stand, it costs me  about R15k per hour in staff, machine repayments, rent.... +++. Now I hear we have to be patient. How patient will the bank / finance company be come month end. Sick of this and we can do nothing.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Except to invest in a proper generator, with the electrical switches etc to start on it's own when the power go down. I did this about 5 years ago, and although the power generated with this 4 cylinder diesel generator cost about 1.8 times the normal power, it is far cheaper than to have 55 employees sitting around doing nothing. It is a pian in the but because it is one more thing to be regularly tested, and maintained, but so far it has worked exceptionally well, without any hiccup

Problem is we consume around 50k KWh per month. A generator to give us that will be unaffordable to us. We send them home and say sorry... "they" did vote for them.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Manic on March 19, 2019, 02:54:47 pm
 :peepwall:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: RobC on March 19, 2019, 02:59:18 pm
 :eek7:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Beebop on March 19, 2019, 03:02:46 pm
Venezuela here we come.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Koet on March 19, 2019, 03:03:33 pm
I think it's way worse than what government would admit.  I wouldn't be surprised if a total blackout does happen.  There's no way they will be able to catch up with all the neglected maintenance of 20+ years in such a short time.  Everything is starting to fail at once.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: chicco on March 19, 2019, 03:06:30 pm
dont know what the issue is....it was sorted.....looks like we backed the wrong man..... :imaposer:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 19, 2019, 03:10:56 pm
Venezuela here we come.

Hopefully not.  They didn't have loadshedding and currently that is all that is standing between us and a total blackout.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Exploratio on March 19, 2019, 03:27:15 pm
I read that there are 3000 EMPLOYEES doing business with Eskom of which 1000 has been identified. And the rest?

Madupi and Kusile are over budget and behind schedule. Are there not contracts in place to which the contractors are held. I am not schooled in contract law, but some things should be straight forward. You tendered an amount for the project, and you gave a date for completion. Simple.
You don't meet any of the conditions, you start paying penalties. Simple..............or not?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on March 19, 2019, 03:48:11 pm
I must admit we taking strain and mainly because of the differing times, if they shut down the country all at the same time then we could at least plan.

So for example I have a client who wants 500 T shirts, 1000 DVD's and 1000 pens..

They have a deadline because they have a conference.. so whats happening is that when I need something from the client like a signed quote or artwork etc they have loadshedding, then they are on the grid and I start getting phone calls to see if i got their e-mail but I don't because i'm now loadshedding.. so its throwing my whole production schedule off, im going to give it a week or 2 before having to fork out for a generator.

I finished work at 9:30pm last night because I had to make up time to make deadline, that is staff overtime, UBER to get staff home etc.. yesterday i was flat out busy but lost money because when i quote I cant take the effect of loadshedding into account

If it carries on like this ill be looking for a job in about 3 months and that is a pretty scary thought being 46 and white in SA during an election year and shrinking economy.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Beebop on March 19, 2019, 03:51:43 pm
I read that there are 3000 EMPLOYEES doing business with Eskom of which 1000 has been identified. And the rest?

Madupi and Kusile are over budget and behind schedule. Are there not contracts in place to which the contractors are held. I am not schooled in contract law, but some things should be straight forward. You tendered an amount for the project, and you gave a date for completion. Simple.
You don't meet any of the conditions, you start paying penalties. Simple..............or not?
This will happen anywhere where there is no accountability for anything by anyone...
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: RobC on March 19, 2019, 09:27:23 pm
I must admit we taking strain and mainly because of the differing times, if they shut down the country all at the same time then we could at least plan.

So for example I have a client who wants 500 T shirts, 1000 DVD's and 1000 pens..

They have a deadline because they have a conference.. so whats happening is that when I need something from the client like a signed quote or artwork etc they have loadshedding, then they are on the grid and I start getting phone calls to see if i got their e-mail but I don't because i'm now loadshedding.. so its throwing my whole production schedule off, im going to give it a week or 2 before having to fork out for a generator.

I finished work at 9:30pm last night because I had to make up time to make deadline, that is staff overtime, UBER to get staff home etc.. yesterday i was flat out busy but lost money because when i quote I cant take the effect of loadshedding into account

If it carries on like this ill be looking for a job in about 3 months and that is a pretty scary thought being 46 and white in SA during an election year and shrinking economy.
I feel your pain... busy finishing the day's uploads, hopefully no shedding tonight... :patch:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: fixit on March 19, 2019, 09:42:42 pm
Well at least the robbers are happy. They have a schedule to work to.  >:D
Title: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Draadwerk on March 19, 2019, 10:06:30 pm
In court, both High Court and Regional Courts - no power, no recording and no lights. So no trial.

We can't finish even one trial. So we just postpone before we even start to avoid a partly heard matter that is postponed and onky set down again in 6 months time or even a year in the High Court.

Some of these dates were set down 6 months ago and now when a client finally gets his day in court it has to be postponed again.

Worst is - many people are held in custody, guilty or not - and can't get their day in court because of this shit. So some of them have to spend another 6 months or more awaiting a new trial date.

And yes- there is a backup generator, but it is broken and public works has been unable to fix it for the last 5 years or so. And this is in Nelspruit. Smaller courts in rural areas or smaller towns don't even have a generator.

Irreperable harm.....and the fat cats at Eksdom still has no idea....

Also- the matter is set down and I am entitled to my day fee as reserved. But how do you in good conscience charge an attorney and client your day fee for something that it not within our control to prevent? So my pocket feels it!!!!!

And to make matters worse, I only do litigation. I do not have a chamber practice where I can still earn money by using my own generator at the office.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 19, 2019, 10:16:22 pm
In court, both High Court and Regional Courts - no power, no recording and no lights. So no trial.

We can't finish even one trial. So we just postpone before we even start to avoid a partly heard matter that is postponed and onky set down again in 6 months time or even a year in the High Court.

Some of these dates were set down 6 months ago and now when a client finally gets his day in court it has to be postponed again.

Worst is - many people are held in custody, guilty or not - and can't get their day in court because of this shit. So some of them have to spend another 6 months or more awaiting a new trial date.

And yes- there is a backup generator, but it is broken and public works has been unable to fix it for the last 5 years or so. And this is in Nelspruit. Smaller courts in rural areas or smaller towns don't even have a generator.

Irreperable harm.....and the fat cats at Eksdom still has no idea....

Also- the matter is set down and I am entitled to my day fee as reserved. But how do you in good conscience charge an attorney and client your day fee for something that it not within our control to prevent? So my pocket feels it!!!!!

And to make matters worse, I only do litigation. I do not have a chamber practice where I can still earn money by using my own generator at the office.

yes, it's a big fuckup, that most don't even realise - economy will take a serious knock..... and I hope we don't get downgraded
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 19, 2019, 11:49:56 pm
Is it not possible to use battery powered recorders and minimum lights?  Surely there must be a simple plan to be made?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Noneking on March 20, 2019, 04:50:00 am
My rooms are inside a private hospital where we run a huge Volvo generator. Also a second, smaller generator which runs as back-up for theatres should first generator fail. Not sure about the output but generator and housing about the size of a single garage. In the last 6 days we have used R15k worth of diesel. Water supply already affected in Nelspruit. We have 10000l on roof of hospital and bowser on standby should that supply run out.

Massive impact on running cost for body corporate which obviously trickles through to all owners. At least load shedding has no effect on my ability to work at this stage
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 20, 2019, 06:01:08 am
Joburg traffic is never good, but when the lights go off at a William Nicol the people canít get off the highway, so it stops, then the alternate routes gridlock, people must have taken hours to get home last night.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Draadwerk on March 20, 2019, 06:51:11 am
Is it not possible to use battery powered recorders and minimum lights?  Surely there must be a simple plan to be made?

No - the new recording devices are actually computers - they also backup to a central server in JHB.

You won't believe how dark the court building is without lights - minimum windows. And then there is also the issue of aircon - not that it is working most of the days anyway....

Nope - nothing to be done - the scales of justice apparently also do not work once loadshedding starts
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: chicco on March 20, 2019, 06:58:33 am
Had to go for a new passport at home affairs, They are already overloaded and can only do about 140 people a day so you need to be there at 05h00 in the morning to ensure you get in for the day. so I was sitting on a camping chair from 5 to 8 untill the doors open, I was about 10th in line, took them an hour to get the system online.....then things started to move, load shedding at 10,, I was 2nd by that time, so had a to wait 2 hours untill power back on....again 30 min to get system online, I walked out 12h50.......
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 20, 2019, 07:01:10 am
Jeez, why the already slow wheels of justice must get even slower when a simple device will suffice is beyond me. But as you said, even the gennies dont run. 
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Maverick on March 20, 2019, 08:23:52 am
I have 44 staff in a factory and been losing 4 hours a day production. Generally we have a good understanding and communication but on Monday I asked for any ideas how we can minimize the impact for instance shifting breakfast and lunch into the load shedding times each side of the day. One cheeky bugger chirped no he is not going to do that because he is not hungry then. So that is 176 production hours lost a day trying to keep everyone busy. All our stuff is handmade but needs some basic machinery through certain phases of the day. This combined with a tough retail market certainly makes you wonder how long you still going to be employed but we soldier on  :patch:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Mikie on March 20, 2019, 08:40:52 am
I have 44 staff in a factory and been losing 4 hours a day production. Generally we have a good understanding and communication but on Monday I asked for any ideas how we can minimize the impact for instance shifting breakfast and lunch into the load shedding times each side of the day. One cheeky bugger chirped no he is not going to do that because he is not hungry then. So that is 176 production hours lost a day trying to keep everyone busy. All our stuff is handmade but needs some basic machinery through certain phases of the day. This combined with a tough retail market certainly makes you wonder how long you still going to be employed but we soldier on  :patch:

If you start retrenching, you know who to start with
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Maverick on March 20, 2019, 08:51:41 am
I have 44 staff in a factory and been losing 4 hours a day production. Generally we have a good understanding and communication but on Monday I asked for any ideas how we can minimize the impact for instance shifting breakfast and lunch into the load shedding times each side of the day. One cheeky bugger chirped no he is not going to do that because he is not hungry then. So that is 176 production hours lost a day trying to keep everyone busy. All our stuff is handmade but needs some basic machinery through certain phases of the day. This combined with a tough retail market certainly makes you wonder how long you still going to be employed but we soldier on  :patch:

If you start retrenching, you know who to start with

This is a staff member that's very good at what he does and always performs, with 4 sick days in 10 years, I try to take most of these chirps/comments with a pinch of salt and understand the mentality and reasoning behind it  ;) Everyone is frustrated and fed-up with the government and ANC. It is easy to say yes you voted for them, how do you or I know if someone actually voted and for whom  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Edgar on March 20, 2019, 09:00:20 am
We have a massive, and I mean massive generator powering our office building. All 17 floors X3 office towers. I can only imagine how much diesel that generator must use for every hour that it is running.  :o 
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 20, 2019, 09:36:23 am
I read that there are 3000 EMPLOYEES doing business with Eskom of which 1000 has been identified. And the rest?

Madupi and Kusile are over budget and behind schedule. Are there not contracts in place to which the contractors are held. I am not schooled in contract law, but some things should be straight forward. You tendered an amount for the project, and you gave a date for completion. Simple.
You don't meet any of the conditions, you start paying penalties. Simple..............or not?

Not so simple.  In many cases the reasons for the delays are Eskom and they own penalties to the contractors and suppliers.  In others, they pay the penalties, but that does not alleviate the issue at hand, i.e. project not completed. 
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 20, 2019, 09:51:11 am
I read that there are 3000 EMPLOYEES doing business with Eskom of which 1000 has been identified. And the rest?

Madupi and Kusile are over budget and behind schedule. Are there not contracts in place to which the contractors are held. I am not schooled in contract law, but some things should be straight forward. You tendered an amount for the project, and you gave a date for completion. Simple.
You don't meet any of the conditions, you start paying penalties. Simple..............or not?

Not so simple.  In many cases the reasons for the delays are Eskom and they own penalties to the contractors and suppliers.  In others, they pay the penalties, but that does not alleviate the issue at hand, i.e. project not completed.

Correct.  :sip:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: RobC on March 20, 2019, 09:52:19 am
Last night just before 10, systems have just started giving back clean logs when lights go out... wake up at 12 and see the lights come on... and off again. So here I am thinking ESKOM has tanked... wake up at 3 and see but hey the lights are back on in the rest of the house. MD had turned off the bedside light all the while.
Start up the PC and Windows anounces it is now updating... FFS!! 45 minutes later I can log in and start the update sequence... just finished before 8 and off we go again...

Fok Hierdie Kak! :sip:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Beebop on March 20, 2019, 10:37:14 am
Too good not to share

https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.brinkman/videos/10157138875957767/

or yoootooob


Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: RobC on March 20, 2019, 02:34:29 pm
 :laughing4: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 20, 2019, 03:22:57 pm
Wonder how long it will be until someone Whatsapps me this!! ;) :lol8: :lol8:

Seeing I have my phone charged that is!! :lol8: :o >:(
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Oshkosh on March 20, 2019, 08:12:34 pm
Is it not possible to use battery powered recorders and minimum lights?  Surely there must be a simple plan to be made?

All fair & well but now we have to foot the bill for the government's fuckups & still have to pay for electricity that we don't receive & layout extra cash to keep our business running I need a 20/25 kva genie to keep my business running but the cost is between  R 60k & R 90k  which I can ill afford as business is shit at the moment!

I have also bought 3 x inverters & 6 x 105 amp/hr batteries at a cost of R 5'400-00 each just to keep the Office going as well as the TV & some lights in the TV room so Fuck the ANC & there Government!  :xxbah:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 24, 2019, 07:40:25 am

Seeing I have my phone charged that is!! :lol8: :o >:(

Unplug immediately, or Eskom will suck all the power out of it to prevent Stage 11 loadshedding!

Stage 11:  The come to your house and swap out all your Castle Lights with Black Labels! 
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Oubones on March 24, 2019, 08:24:34 am
Let us be positive :patch:
Start selling backup power units!
I helped a restaurant get their jenny working yesterday, they have been waiting for the techie for 3 weeks already!
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 24, 2019, 08:47:09 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 24, 2019, 08:49:25 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 24, 2019, 09:14:23 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Do not agree that it has to come in all cases. For about the last 15 years already we, in this municipality, all work on prepaid meters, so all electricity used here was paid for before it was used. That money was paid to the municipality which then squandered it on other things or in several cases money (cash) went missing before it was banked. Why should us, the consumer, be penalised while we paid for the electricity we used and the municipality (ANC led) did not fulfil their simple obligation of paying it over to Eskom.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 24, 2019, 09:38:15 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Do not agree that it has to come in all cases. For about the last 15 years already we, in this municipality, all work on prepaid meters, so all electricity used here was paid for before it was used. That money was paid to the municipality which then squandered it on other things or in several cases money (cash) went missing before it was banked. Why should us, the consumer, be penalised while we paid for the electricity we used and the municipality (ANC led) did not fulfil their simple obligation of paying it over to Eskom.
I fully understand your position the disfunctional municipalities are the issue, that is why Eskom lose court cases when they try to switch supplies off, but it does not resolve the issue 8)
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 24, 2019, 09:41:05 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Do not agree that it has to come in all cases. For about the last 15 years already we, in this municipality, all work on prepaid meters, so all electricity used here was paid for before it was used. That money was paid to the municipality which then squandered it on other things or in several cases money (cash) went missing before it was banked. Why should us, the consumer, be penalised while we paid for the electricity we used and the municipality (ANC led) did not fulfil their simple obligation of paying it over to Eskom.
I fully understand your position the disfunctional municipalities are the issue, that is why Eskom lose court cases when they try to switch supplies off, but it does not resolve the issue 8)

So the message that goes out is whether you pay or not, your power will also be cut. So what motivation remains to be a loyal citizen who pays?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 24, 2019, 09:54:27 am
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 24, 2019, 10:26:45 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.
it has to come, luckily I am a direct Eskom customer, not municipal😎

Same here, thank goodness.  It is not without its headaches, but at least the loadshedding schedules are correct and we don't have an even more incompetent middle man in the mix.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 24, 2019, 10:29:56 am
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.

Eskom did do that once before in Soweto.  It is why large parts of Soweto are direct Eskom customers.  It is certainly one way of solving that non-payment by munics issue, but it does move more power to the state owned monopoly.  There is another way which I believe is easier all round.  The national government, when they do the annual provincial allocations could withhold whatever munics in that province owes Eskom and pay that over to Eskom.  The Provincial governments can then do the same when they do their munic allocations. 
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 24, 2019, 11:11:25 am
Paying money to eskom is also not the solution. They just steal it.  Eskom problem is not a lack of money one, but a incompetence, corrupt and unproductive one.  Need a seperate new electricity collection method for defaulting municipalities.  Basically, if you are a child who cant work with money, you will get allocated a responsible party who will manage your finances on your behalf
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 24, 2019, 11:13:57 am
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.

Eskom did do that once before in Soweto.  It is why large parts of Soweto are direct Eskom customers.  It is certainly one way of solving that non-payment by munics issue, but it does move more power to the state owned monopoly.  There is another way which I believe is easier all round.  The national government, when they do the annual provincial allocations could withhold whatever munics in that province owes Eskom and pay that over to Eskom.  The Provincial governments can then do the same when they do their munic allocations.

Does Soweto's arrears come from non payment of electricity by consumers or non payment by the municipality while it was paid for by the consumers? Many of Soweto's residents flatly refuse to pay their accounts and there even was resistance to possible prepaid meter installation. Completely different kettle of fish, however not all refuse to pay and those who do will also be penalised while not in arrears, which is wrong.
Here no one is in arrears as the electricity is paid for prior to use. The first however much of monthly use is subsidised to low income householdings and the system does keep track of monthly purchases per meter, so a use pattern can be formed, hence illegal connections which will lower use while connected can be tracked, if monitored. The electricity supplied by Eskom largely matches up with the amount sold by the municipality, the issue however is the money never reaches Eskom, then the community is held at ransom.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 24, 2019, 11:27:37 am
It is not the consumer who defaulted, it is the municipality, so in my opinion the consumer should not be penalised for their failure. Locally several commercial farms have been transferred to the Municipality as part of land reform and it is registered into their name at the deeds office. The municipality is supposed to get rent from the beneficiaries, but those farms are largely disfunctional with no rent paid over and hardly any economic activity on them.
A better option would be for Eskom to attach those farms and sell them on public auction to recoup their losses. They will have much better leverage on the ANC to step up to take responsibility or lose the farms that are used as political ball in any case. If I default my assets are sold, so why is it different with them where innocent parties are expected to bear the brunt.

Eskom did do that once before in Soweto.  It is why large parts of Soweto are direct Eskom customers.  It is certainly one way of solving that non-payment by munics issue, but it does move more power to the state owned monopoly.  There is another way which I believe is easier all round.  The national government, when they do the annual provincial allocations could withhold whatever munics in that province owes Eskom and pay that over to Eskom.  The Provincial governments can then do the same when they do their munic allocations.


Does Soweto's arrears come from non payment of electricity by consumers or non payment by the municipality while it was paid for by the consumers? Many of Soweto's residents flatly refuse to pay their accounts and there even was resistance to possible prepaid meter installation. Completely different kettle of fish, however not all refuse to pay and those who do will also be penalised while not in arrears, which is wrong.
Here no one is in arrears as the electricity is paid for prior to use. The first however much of monthly use is subsidised to low income householdings and the system does keep track of monthly purchases per meter, so a use pattern can be formed, hence illegal connections which will lower use while connected can be tracked, if monitored. The electricity supplied by Eskom largely matches up with the amount sold by the municipality, the issue however is the money never reaches Eskom, then the community is held at ransom.


There are various reasons for the non-payment in Soweto, but Eskom supplies direct, so no involvement from a munic.  Some years ago, the non-payment graphs indicated that there is a clear split between non-payers.  Those who refuse to pay and those who pay, but pay less less than owed indicating an affordability issue, rather than a blanket refusal to pay.  I don't know if that is still the same.  It is however possible for Eskom to cut off individual users in Soweto as they supply direct, but that opens a whole new kettle of fish. 

As for the non-payment, by munics, I thought I had agreed with you.  It is a huge problem exactly as you stated because Eskom can do nothing except cut the whole munic which will be grossly unfair on the customers who pay their accounts, therefore .... (see the bit I wrote earlier about government allocations)
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 24, 2019, 12:28:02 pm
the leadership in the munics should be taken to court and personally held accountable if they don't pay monies received from residents over to eskom
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 24, 2019, 02:52:30 pm
the leadership in the munics should be taken to court and personally held accountable if they don't pay monies received from residents over to eskom
couldnít agree more, however 🙄
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Koet on March 25, 2019, 08:03:14 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.

It sucks for the people that pay their bills every month.  And what's worse is that the people that don't pay will just connect illegally so they won't feel it when Eskom disconnects the municipality.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 25, 2019, 08:39:57 am
the leadership in the munics should be taken to court and personally held accountable if they don't pay monies received from residents over to eskom
couldnít agree more, however 🙄

+1.

Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 25, 2019, 08:44:08 am
New problem on the horizon. I see our municipality is one of those with defaulted payments to Eskom and for which Eskom plans to shut down power supply at daily intervals in an attempt to get their money. IMHO the consumers will bear the brunt, the financial loss and inconvenience due to Municipal incompetence and corruption. Totally unacceptable.

It sucks for the people that pay their bills every month.  And what's worse is that the people that don't pay will just connect illegally so they won't feel it when Eskom disconnects the municipality.

If the whole area is off, there is no power to illegally connect to
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on March 25, 2019, 03:23:10 pm
I have 44 staff in a factory and been losing 4 hours a day production. Generally we have a good understanding and communication but on Monday I asked for any ideas how we can minimize the impact for instance shifting breakfast and lunch into the load shedding times each side of the day. One cheeky bugger chirped no he is not going to do that because he is not hungry then. So that is 176 production hours lost a day trying to keep everyone busy. All our stuff is handmade but needs some basic machinery through certain phases of the day. This combined with a tough retail market certainly makes you wonder how long you still going to be employed but we soldier on  :patch:

That is exactly what I did.. the staff got given a choice.. its a really easy one. We shift work around to work when the lights are on and they get given time off during loadshedding... even for me.

I think people are going to show me the "I told you so card" but I really think 1000's of people have run off to buy generators that they will hardly ever use again.

I have a question for the legal experts. If i own a house and i stop paying my electricity bill then Eskom cuts me off directly, not the entire community, so question 1 is, why cant Eskom cut off power to non payers individually like in my area and question 2 is.. if i sell my house but my municipal bill is in arrears then I have to settle those arrears through the transferring attorney.. So im assuming that even though a household in Soweto does'nt pay his bill.. it will eventually get paid. I just sold a plot and the municipality forced me to pay R2500 'just incase' there was any unpaid fees , even though on their system i'm up to date it still had to be paid with them agreeing to refund me after the new owner starts getting billed.

Or is the system just different there?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 26, 2019, 08:16:36 am

I have a question for the legal experts. If i own a house and i stop paying my electricity bill then Eskom cuts me off directly, not the entire community, so question 1 is, why cant Eskom cut off power to non payers individually like in my area and question 2 is.. if i sell my house but my municipal bill is in arrears then I have to settle those arrears through the transferring attorney.. So im assuming that even though a household in Soweto does'nt pay his bill.. it will eventually get paid. I just sold a plot and the municipality forced me to pay R2500 'just incase' there was any unpaid fees , even though on their system i'm up to date it still had to be paid with them agreeing to refund me after the new owner starts getting billed.

Or is the system just different there?

If you are an Eskom Direct customer and you do not pay, Eskom can switch you off individually at your connection. 

If you are a munic customer Eskom does not have any control off your power supply.  In this case the munic is Eskom's customer and you are a customer of the munic, not Eskom.  In such a case Eskom wouldn't even know if you are in arrears or not and any any event they can only switch off the main feed into that munic, therefore everyone on that sub-station, regardless of whether they paid, or not.  If you do not pay, the munic switches you off.

Your account issue is with the munic, not Eskom and your bill with the munic would include rates and taxes.  When selling a property, it is a standard practice by the munic to take an amount to make sure they are covered "just in case" as you call it. 
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on March 28, 2019, 09:14:55 am
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 28, 2019, 09:36:52 am
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

People compare the load shedding we just had and then compare this summer with coming winter.  Remember that Eskom, because it was summer took 10 000MW of generating capacity off line for planned maintenance.  That should be back by start of winter.   (seriously holding thumbs here)

Remember, many skelm idiots in Eskom.  Also, many hard working, intelligent, proud employees.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2019, 10:40:34 am
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Ganjora on March 28, 2019, 10:59:04 am
AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

don't fuck up a good story with the truth...
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 28, 2019, 11:11:57 am
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

+1.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2019, 11:14:01 am
AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

don't fuck up a good story with the truth...

 :lol8:  you're on a roll again today  :lol8:  liked your post about white and right handed  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Ganjora on March 28, 2019, 11:24:24 am
:lol8:  you're on a roll again today  :lol8:  liked your post about white and right handed  :imaposer:

kak.
i just checked.
i am on 108 likes in total,  and NOBODY liked that post.
:middlefinger:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 28, 2019, 12:00:47 pm
AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

don't fuck up a good story with the truth...

 :lol8:  you're on a roll again today  :lol8:  liked your post about white and right handed  :imaposer:

I thought that was really kak.  He shot be shot for making that post.  At least taken to Human Rights Court.  Me being left handed and all.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2019, 03:38:29 pm
:lol8:  you're on a roll again today  :lol8:  liked your post about white and right handed  :imaposer:

kak.
i just checked.
i am on 108 likes in total,  and NOBODY liked that post.

look again!  ;) :biggrin:


:middlefinger:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2019, 03:39:53 pm
AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

don't fuck up a good story with the truth...

 :lol8:  you're on a roll again today  :lol8:  liked your post about white and right handed  :imaposer:

I thought that was really kak.  He shot be shot for making that post.  At least taken to Human Rights Court.  Me being left handed and all.


hmmmmm  :deal: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on March 28, 2019, 03:48:58 pm
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

Pre paid here seems to differ depending on who the pre paid meters are supplied by,  also depends on how many units you buy, the date in the month you buy also makes a difference

The issues seem to be in the new developments , I belong to a few body corporates and the variance in electricity price is sometimes scary
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2019, 05:01:52 pm
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

Pre paid here seems to differ depending on who the pre paid meters are supplied by,  also depends on how many units you buy, the date in the month you buy also makes a difference

The issues seem to be in the new developments , I belong to a few body corporates and the variance in electricity price is sometimes scary

most councils have block tariffs for electricity and water - below is the one Tshwane uses for both pre- and post-paid - very few people on facebook seem grasp it and are forever complaining when they buy for the 2nd time in a month

Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 28, 2019, 07:29:38 pm
That water table makes no sense to me ?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2019, 08:12:25 pm
That water table makes no sense to me ?

why?

edit: ignore the 200kl/day - I didn't even see it  ;D  it should obviously read 200l/day
and I realise the steps have an unknown jump of 1kl....... pen pushers!
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 28, 2019, 10:15:53 pm
The sliding scale logic fails when the period dont get read in 30d cycles and when usage gets estimate.  Estimations is always higher, which pushes one into a higher scale.  Next monthís correction does not cater for this.

You cant use a sliding scale if you dont measure in exact 30d cycles or use estimations.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 28, 2019, 10:40:02 pm
The sliding scale logic fails when the period dont get read in 30d cycles and when usage gets estimate.  Estimations is always higher, which pushes one into a higher scale.  Next monthís correction does not cater for this.

You cant use a sliding scale if you dont measure in exact 30d cycles or use estimations.
if you're billed 12 times per year, there's no massive difference - what you lose in the over readings, you gain in the next reduced readings
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 28, 2019, 10:47:39 pm
So you agree the figures will be wrong, you are saying it will not be wrong by much?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 28, 2019, 11:48:10 pm
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 29, 2019, 07:31:27 am
Source?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 29, 2019, 07:35:46 am
Source?
Are you refering to my post? If so, leaflets, municipal communication and newspaper articles. Will see if I can post it
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on March 29, 2019, 09:30:08 am
oh ok I hear you, I feel sorry for the guys buying in new developments near me, they are paying on prepaid which is the biggest rip off known to man. Some folks are paying R1500 a month in a tiny apartment and from what i'm hearing some people are paying even higher.



Well it seems to have been a fantastic recovery for Eskom, after getting their big increase the lights are on and staying on... I wonder if there will be any cuts this winter

AFAIK pre-paid costs the same as post-paid, at least in Tshwane it does

Pre paid here seems to differ depending on who the pre paid meters are supplied by,  also depends on how many units you buy, the date in the month you buy also makes a difference

The issues seem to be in the new developments , I belong to a few body corporates and the variance in electricity price is sometimes scary

most councils have block tariffs for electricity and water - below is the one Tshwane uses for both pre- and post-paid - very few people on facebook seem grasp it and are forever complaining when they buy for the 2nd time in a month

Im not surprised that people get confused

If i look at Eskoms billing for example. I have a house in the suburbs, my Network Capacity charge is R85 a month or about R3 a day another house I own about 8km away is R275.39 per month, the only difference between the 2 houses is one is in a security complex, I cant even figure out how the network charges work.

All i know is that here in the Cape it seems to differ drastically , If i ever figure it out ill let you know

At the end of the day I still think our electricity is fairly cheap compared to the rest of the world , my house with a borehole and swimming pool with a granny flat only uses about R200 - R250 a week in electricity.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 29, 2019, 10:14:32 am
So you agree the figures will be wrong, you are saying it will not be wrong by much?

good question, when I have a bit of time, I'll draw up a spreadsheet and do some simulations, but I would guess not more than 1 or 2%

edit: what are your units per month roughly for summer and for winter?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 29, 2019, 10:23:46 am
most councils have block tariffs for electricity and water - below is the one Tshwane uses for both pre- and post-paid - very few people on facebook seem grasp it and are forever complaining when they buy for the 2nd time in a month

Im not surprised that people get confused

If i look at Eskoms billing for example. I have a house in the suburbs, my Network Capacity charge is R85 a month or about R3 a day another house I own about 8km away is R275.39 per month, the only difference between the 2 houses is one is in a security complex, I cant even figure out how the network charges work.

All i know is that here in the Cape it seems to differ drastically , If i ever figure it out ill let you know

At the end of the day I still think our electricity is fairly cheap compared to the rest of the world , my house with a borehole and swimming pool with a granny flat only uses about R200 - R250 a week in electricity.

Tshwane only has the capacity charge for its bigger connections - capacity charge is actually a demand charge and should be based on the cost to supply the maximum electricity used in any 30 or 60 min period - this would include the equipment and what eskom charges the council for maximum demand
When you pay a capacity charge, your units (kWh) should be cheaper than the guy who doesn't pay the charge

At the old Iscor pretoria works, that bought their power from Tshwane, we had a maximum demand controller that shut down our furnaces at certain times in order to stay within the targetted maximum demand for the month - on these large supplies, the elec bill was roughly half for capacity and half for energy, so it was worth managing the capacity
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: ChrisL - DUSTRIDERS on March 29, 2019, 10:26:31 am
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on March 29, 2019, 11:00:04 am
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:

What would Eskom collect as they have no idea what your usage was, or how much it should take.  Should it take your whole amount, or your amount, less the munics bit?  Still a very difficult, if not impossible method.

The best and easiest solution is still for Treasury to check what is each munics outstanding balance at Eskom and then pay Eskom, prior to paying over the munics allocation from the national budget.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: roxenz on March 29, 2019, 02:19:34 pm
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:

What would Eskom collect as they have no idea what your usage was, or how much it should take.  Should it take your whole amount, or your amount, less the munics bit?  Still a very difficult, if not impossible method.

The best and easiest solution is still for Treasury to check what is each munics outstanding balance at Eskom and then pay Eskom, prior to paying over the munics allocation from the national budget.
So you are saying I (and a host of other taxpayers who have been paying our bills) should now pay other people's bills just because the money has been misspent? How would that help? On the one hand you'll piss of more paying taxpayers, and on the other you are basically saying to the guilty (the non-payers and mis-managers) that it's OK, go ahead and carry on as before. We'll bail you out. So the problem will just get bigger and more painful to solve.

There is only ONE solution: holding people responsible for their actions (or inactions in most cases), with real consequences. Yeah, like that ever going to happen. Any reasonably analytical thinking capacity will work out that it is a one way road to a totally wrecked economy, but then, as Julius Nyerere famously said to thunderous applause "before we had some rich people and some poor people, now we are all poor together!".
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Welsh on March 29, 2019, 02:28:31 pm
I heard a lovely one the other day, and no not from the web or wattsapp from a property investor, investing in upmarket areas of Soweto etc, for the same price property investment he can charge R3k to R4k a month more as people don't have to budget to pay Electricity, Water and Rates as no one does in those areas  :peepwall:.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bie on March 29, 2019, 02:48:49 pm
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:
Problem is it is not possible. There are 3 places to buy prepaid electricity, the municipality being one of them. All cash purchases, so we cannot withhold money, then we will be in dark in any event
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Wooly Bugger on March 29, 2019, 02:54:01 pm
From 11 April we face drastic power cuts again locally. Electricity is sold by the municipality via prepaid meters, so all electricity is paid for prior to it being loaded onto your meter. The money however was not paid over to Eskom with the result of them being in arrears to the tune of around R85 mil.
From 11 April our power will now be cut by Eskom for up to 14 hours a day, while we, the consumer, has paid our dues in full. There will be many unhappy people, you might even see us on the news.
It is time you start paying your elec bills in a account and not the mislikepaliteit. If everyone starts doing it Eskom will start collecting the money from said accounts instead of muni. :deal:

What would Eskom collect as they have no idea what your usage was, or how much it should take.  Should it take your whole amount, or your amount, less the munics bit?  Still a very difficult, if not impossible method.

The best and easiest solution is still for Treasury to check what is each munics outstanding balance at Eskom and then pay Eskom, prior to paying over the munics allocation from the national budget.
So you are saying I (and a host of other taxpayers who have been paying our bills) should now pay other people's bills just because the money has been  STOLEN? How would that help? On the one hand you'll piss of more paying taxpayers, and on the other you are basically saying to the guilty (the non-payers and mis-managers) that it's OK, go ahead and carry on as before. We'll bail you out. So the problem will just get bigger and more painful to solve.

There is only ONE solution: holding people responsible for their actions (or inactions in most cases), with real consequences. Yeah, like that ever going to happen. Any reasonably analytical thinking capacity will work out that it is a one way road to a totally wrecked economy, but then, as Julius Nyerere famously said to thunderous applause "before we had some rich people and some poor people, now we are all poor together!".

I fixed your error for you. Gratis.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 30, 2019, 02:18:56 pm
So you agree the figures will be wrong, you are saying it will not be wrong by much?

good question, when I have a bit of time, I'll draw up a spreadsheet and do some simulations, but I would guess not more than 1 or 2%

edit: what are your units per month roughly for summer and for winter?

@KiLRoy I did some simulations and it's negligable - see below - the file names describe the situation
 

EDIT: so in my case, over a year, it did not make any difference, but it is because I'm well within the 650kWh/mnth bracket
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 30, 2019, 08:31:11 pm
I have some sums which i will make when i have time. Boils down to the estimate pushing one in a big jump new bracket. Rebates done within existing bracket, not downward adjusted. 

Point is sliding scale estimates are not accurate in fixed cycle situations. Bills must be accurate, not close to accurate.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Bundu on March 30, 2019, 08:51:17 pm
I have some sums which i will make when i have time. Boils down to the estimate pushing one in a big jump new bracket. Rebates done within existing bracket, not downward adjusted. 

Point is sliding scale estimates are not accurate in fixed cycle situations. Bills must be accurate, not close to accurate.

you didn't understand my tables?

Tell my what consumption and what month length deviation I must simulate?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: KiLRoy on March 31, 2019, 02:00:56 am
Try water

M1 act 12, est 16 estimated at much higher rate
M2 act 12, no est, adj 8 - adjusted at much lower rate
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: SlŠinte Mhaith on April 02, 2019, 07:44:07 am
the only difference between the 2 houses is one is in a security complex, I cant even figure out how the network charges work.

Who do you pay for electricity in the complex?  Often the admin company collect the money from each tenant and pay one price on the bulk meter to the municipality.  They can play around with the scales and make a bit of money on it.


At the end of the day I still think our electricity is fairly cheap compared to the rest of the world , my house with a borehole and swimming pool with a granny flat only uses about R200 - R250 a week in electricity.

Tshwane I pay about R1,80 per kWh.  Watched some videos about America and it seems we are paying more for electricity than they do.  ???
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Wooly Bugger on April 02, 2019, 12:59:45 pm
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on April 02, 2019, 02:30:39 pm
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: RobC on April 02, 2019, 03:48:09 pm
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.
There is always a first time. :sip:
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Wooly Bugger on April 02, 2019, 04:52:27 pm
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Mikie on April 03, 2019, 06:50:11 am
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Wooly Bugger on April 03, 2019, 03:19:05 pm
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??

Often. You?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Mikie on April 04, 2019, 07:40:05 am
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??

Often. You?

Nope, I dont see it working out in my favour
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: TheBear on April 04, 2019, 09:26:09 am
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Because if you don't, you will be disconnected.  Assuming you are in an area where the ailing infrastructure allows for that.

Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: husky on April 04, 2019, 10:26:34 am
As an aside, there are some "electrical entrepreneurs" in the "informal settlements". These guys make sure someone gets paid for electricity by connecting up to some convenient street light, pump station or similar and running a distribution network to the houses; for which the occupier pays the "entrepreneur". Near to the site I'm working on, even bare barbed wire from the security fence was used as a conductor.  Now and then the municipality sends an armed disconnection team (no one ever gets arrested) who disconnect the illegal connections but they are usually restored with a day or so.  These electricity "accounts" definitely get paid, not the municipality of course.
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Wooly Bugger on April 04, 2019, 10:38:57 am
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??

Often. You?

Nope, I dont see it working out in my favour

So why even ask the question in the 1st place?
Title: Re: Load shedding and the economy
Post by: Mikie on April 04, 2019, 12:02:53 pm
I see a CT based law firm is instituting class action against Eskom?

I noted.  It would be very interesting to see if they get anywhere.  The Eskom customer contract doesn't guarantee anything in terms of availability.

so why pay the fixed availability charge?

Have you tried not paying part of your bill??

Often. You?

Nope, I dont see it working out in my favour

So why even ask the question in the 1st place?

Cos your question was absurd, only if you live in Soweto can you refuse to pay for something and have no repercussions