Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Riding: Plan, Report and Racing => Racing Section => Topic started by: Vintage_Mania on April 09, 2019, 01:06:44 pm

Title: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Vintage_Mania on April 09, 2019, 01:06:44 pm
https://www.motorsport.com/dakar/news/dakar-rally-2020-saudi-arabia/4364574/

The Dakar Rally will leave South America to start a new era in the Middle East in 2020 after signing a five-year deal with Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Grunder on April 09, 2019, 01:16:57 pm
https://www.motorsport.com/dakar/news/dakar-rally-2020-saudi-arabia/4364574/

The Dakar Rally will leave South America to start a new era in the Middle East in 2020 after signing a five-year deal with Saudi Arabia.

Lekker man  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Neo_za on April 09, 2019, 05:04:42 pm
"Sport is above politics"  :laughing4:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Nuts4Dakar on April 09, 2019, 07:24:36 pm
Looks like I need some sand practice  :ricky:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on April 11, 2019, 09:12:25 am
I have read comments on ADVRider where it was asked how are the Saudis going to accommodate females. Only recently females were allowed to start driving and I am not sure if females are allowed to ride motorcycles in KSA.
The other gripe the posters on ADVRider had was the consumption of alcohol and how they treat people in general.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Ben-57 on April 11, 2019, 03:34:48 pm
This is going to get interesting... Maybe they'll do better than our bunch here in northern Africa.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: aka.Goliath on April 15, 2019, 10:02:22 pm
Looks like weíll have to wait til the end of the of April to hear more details, and hopefully throw some light on some of the issues brought up.

Iím very keen nonetheless, the Arabs like their motor sport and thereís enough money there to really make this work.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Vintage_Mania on April 16, 2019, 11:44:46 am
DAKAR RALLY OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED IN SAUDI ARABIA FOR 2020

https://enduro21.com/index.php/rally/4050-dakar-rally-officially-confirmed-in-saudi-arabia-for-2020
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Cracker on April 16, 2019, 01:07:31 pm
I heard today Ross is riding for KTM - any truth in this?
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Vintage_Mania on April 16, 2019, 01:16:28 pm
I heard today Ross is riding for KTM - any truth in this?

The Kalahari Ferrari just finished second in the The Merzouga Rally which is a enormous achievement. Still riding for BAS Dakar Team in that event....
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on April 16, 2019, 01:38:21 pm
What about a cooler box and a few beers at the spectator points? Eish....
Title: Dakar moving to the Middle East
Post by: lpj on April 18, 2019, 01:00:36 pm
Rumours for a while, but now confirmed. Dakar to be held in Saudi Arabia from 2020 onward - https://www.dakar.com/en/news/2019/dakar-chapter-iii/162128 (https://www.dakar.com/en/news/2019/dakar-chapter-iii/162128)
Title: Re: Dakar moving to the Middle East
Post by: stcomza on April 18, 2019, 01:55:52 pm

Sad that the original 'Paris-Dakar' has died...

 
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: stcomza on April 18, 2019, 02:00:09 pm
What about a cooler box and a few beers at the spectator points? Eish....

Nothing a Bavaria and a couple of hot cross buns can't solve.... :biggrin:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: chicco on April 18, 2019, 04:10:40 pm
So it will only then be a KTM event.... :lol8:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Colin Kaapschehoop on April 18, 2019, 07:12:54 pm
Just be sure you didnít say or write anything bad about those guys before going for your Visa interview at their embassy! 
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: wiledog_X on April 26, 2019, 08:57:15 am
From the official launch:

(https://scontent-jnb1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58113376_2315870125138948_5740958681483182080_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeFvSbC3bU1rx52dXTaQG3AxUvLY8q8O2DYi_E6qSfJvvgLwiFL5lpvGnuQeVdhAlt3q3uI0K_3Wv9HNDq4TCxHuv6sumKKtv3IfQsMldNf2cQ&_nc_ht=scontent-jnb1-1.xx&oh=8aa93123cec128fda5ee67da58a4f50c&oe=5D323CAA)

(https://scontent-jnb1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58649536_2315727375153223_4291587513220333568_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeF1vduDAWHE8d2p7ESOD8C24GvDb4iJsBBMIDTeFCff3-wSc_hHFzzvlNEkAfqnjtcL6xrAE8P8BdtQIIurLRMTn-201OVu9DHByUJIfaGsSQ&_nc_ht=scontent-jnb1-1.xx&oh=5d7cc7f258c8a378bcec007cbd71344f&oe=5D6BD4C2)

(https://scontent-jnb1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58441880_2315644335161527_2172446143953240064_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_eui2=AeGBY_SWxW3IP3FF1ZfzEG7xUFHrMuBM47Bs31fHwjHeenvUB-BoZht4va2bSc2xZBQsnC_QM86-TkPDf9dlJQ-gd7xnKE9SIJHAPs6vQt3XhQ&_nc_ht=scontent-jnb1-1.xx&oh=6d42573350bb9a02466e387ea6ceca92&oe=5D34E87B)

A lot of negative backlash against this move....

Laia Sanz is upbeat though:
"Laia Sanz is also here! A nice part of Dakar is to discover new places. The race can do a change to the origins. Nos vemos en Saudi Arabia!Ē👍
#Dakar2020
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on April 26, 2019, 10:15:46 am
Facebook is not happy, lots of negative comments. Wonder if teams and privateers will vote with their entries?

Suppose there are two ways to look at it, the first being negative and boycotting the thing (entries, support and viewership), and the second seeing the Dakar as having the potential to bring positive change to Saudi?
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: CDog on April 26, 2019, 11:33:49 am
I really don't see the issue in moving the Dakar to Middle East.....
There has been quite some negativity on FB regarding the move.

But those guys in the Middle East are Nuts about MotorSports in general and have the cash to throw at these events in a big way, which can "hopefully"only bring more viewers and followers to the sport......... More awareness & publicity surely cant be a bad thing.

And new terrain + new challenges...... should be interesting.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: gser on April 26, 2019, 11:41:01 am
 . . . with a lot of sand and dunes . . .
Looking forward to this one , is it going be tougher than usual ?
I think so.
Remember, it will take place in their "rainy" season but in their "cooler" time of the year.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on April 26, 2019, 11:44:27 am
I really don't see the issue in moving the Dakar to Middle East.....
There has been quite some negativity on FB regarding the move.

But those guys in the Middle East are Nuts about MotorSports in general and have the cash to throw at these events in a big way, which can "hopefully"only bring more viewers and followers to the sport......... More awareness & publicity surely cant be a bad thing.

And new terrain + new challenges...... should be interesting.

The problem is not the terrain or motorsport interest or money, but it is the perceived human rights issues in Saudi and their treatment of women, journalists, foreigners and attitude towards negative criticism. In some cases it's a dangerous country to travel to.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: CDog on April 26, 2019, 12:06:30 pm
I really don't see the issue in moving the Dakar to Middle East.....
There has been quite some negativity on FB regarding the move.

But those guys in the Middle East are Nuts about MotorSports in general and have the cash to throw at these events in a big way, which can "hopefully"only bring more viewers and followers to the sport......... More awareness & publicity surely cant be a bad thing.

And new terrain + new challenges...... should be interesting.
The problem is not the terrain or motorsport interest or money, but it is the perceived human rights issues in Saudi and their treatment of women, journalists, foreigners and attitude towards negative criticism. In some cases it's a dangerous country to travel to.

Completely understand this side of the story............... But if Saudi Arabia wishes to make a success of the event, they will have no choice but to step up and start operating in accordance with "western / global" requirements................ going to be interesting to watch events unfold.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Neo_za on April 26, 2019, 06:39:48 pm
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: BiG DoM on April 26, 2019, 07:34:19 pm
I really don't see the issue in moving the Dakar to Middle East.....
There has been quite some negativity on FB regarding the move.

But those guys in the Middle East are Nuts about MotorSports in general and have the cash to throw at these events in a big way, which can "hopefully"only bring more viewers and followers to the sport......... More awareness & publicity surely cant be a bad thing.

And new terrain + new challenges...... should be interesting.

There is no doubt that the money was a great big attraction along with the terrain. There are a fuckload of unhappy people many saying that DAKAR has sold out for the money and not seriously considered Saudi's human rights record and abuse of women.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: chicco on April 27, 2019, 11:00:30 am
This is great news. My wife always wanted to go overseas and Dubia is one of the cheapest flights from Durban.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on April 27, 2019, 11:54:35 am
I lived in Saudi for three years, my thoughts:


Amazing terrain, the Wadiís are quite special.


I do think Saudi is making good strides; when I worked there, the weekend was Thursday PM and Friday; now they have somewhat Ďsyncedí with the rest of the world, the weekend being Friday & Saturday, so little changes are coming, such as women being allowed to drive, a good development, much needed.


I think an event of this magnitude will Ďopen upí Saudi further; visitors may get to see a different (mostly positive) way of life, and the local Saudiís will get to see just how capable women drivers/riders are - thinking of Laia Sanz, here!


I was pissed off at the tragic Kashoggi incident, and think this set their Intl relations back significantly.


But am now interested in seeing my old temp stomping ground 20 years on, AND a Rally, to boot.
Change is good; bring it on, letís see how it pans out.
Chris



Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Neo_za on April 27, 2019, 05:51:20 pm
Perhaps they will stop the executions for the duration of the race....

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/saudi-arabia-mass-execution-beheading

Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: BiG DoM on April 27, 2019, 05:59:49 pm
Yes chilling to say the least  :-\   
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 27, 2019, 08:30:26 pm
Very good news and wrt some worries:

- Like some has already metioned, Arabian people love motorsports BIG TIME
- No worries wrt international female competitors; there are a number of sports including some REDBULL challenges with female participants
- Alcohol: Again nothing to worry about because their laws are only against alcohol usage in public places. Private usage is and was never a problem, I have spent quite a bit of time there while working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Licenced pubs are also no issue; who of you that has done international traveling through Dubai did not enjoy a beer in the famous Irish pup in the international airport, or ar Marabu a few pases down the same terminal?

Exciting times, and glad they did not do the easy thing by discontinuing the famous race but rather moved it to Saudi!
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Xpat on April 27, 2019, 08:44:54 pm
Very good news and wrt some worries:

- Like some has already metioned, Arabian people love motorsports BIG TIME
- No worries wrt international female competitors; there are a number of sports including some REDBULL challenges with female participants
- Alcohol: Again nothing to worry about because their laws are only against alcohol usage in public places. Private usage is and was never a problem, I have spent quite a bit of time there while working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Licenced pubs are also no issue; who of you that has done international traveling through Dubai did not enjoy a beer in the famous Irish pup in the international airport, or ar Marabu a few pases down the same terminal?

Exciting times, and glad they did not do the easy thing by discontinuing the famous race but rather moved it to Saudi!

Tom, as far as I understand they are moving it to Saudi Arabia, not Dubai. From the little I know Saudi Arabia is much stricter than Dubai - it opened for tourists only very recently, while Dubai marketed itself as tourist destination for decades.

Which female competitions or Redbull events have you seen in Saudi Arabia? I think you are mixing apples and oranges here... sorry.

I have mixed feelings about this move. On one hand as Chris is saying it may be an opportunity to open this very conservative place a bit more. On the other hand they may just use this as public stunt to boost their international image while covering up for much darker side hidden underneath (like those executions and female treatment)
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Tom van Brits on April 28, 2019, 10:17:46 am
Sorry not Saudi, but Abu Dhabi. It was either base jumping or wingsuit skydiving. I love these dare devils with marbles way bigger than mine, just like the Dakar bike racers.

A common mistake some of us make is to confuse the Arabian countries with each other. Saudi is way more conservative, I know medical nursing personnel that works there and the rule are strict.

Regardless, I stand with my view. Rather move and try new venues and I am sure alcohol will only bug some spectators and not the participants and works teams.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on April 29, 2019, 11:04:44 am
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley

You do live in a country with laws, dont you? Well it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol, so obey the laws and no problem.

And to top it of, have you been to KSA? In all the times I have flown in and out of KSA they have NEVER checked either my laptop, external HD's or phones.

To be clear I have flown into KSA 6 times already this year.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Vintage_Mania on April 29, 2019, 11:21:12 am
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley

You do live in a country with laws, dont you? Well it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol, so obey the laws and no problem.

And to top it of, have you been to KSA? In all the times I have flown in and out of KSA they have NEVER checked either my laptop, external HD's or phones.

To be clear I have flown into KSA 6 times already this year.

Are you serious?
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on April 29, 2019, 11:30:07 am
Lots of negativity about the race being moved to KSA, almost everyone is on about their human rights record and treatment of women. Changes are happening.
To put it in perspective - as of 2016 China have executed more then 1000 people in total, KSA less then 200. According to Wiki and Amnesty International about 1000 prisoners were executed in 2017.
No one is critisizing China and the Silk Way rally is happening.

I do not condone the death penalty in the way KSA have done it, far from it, but give them a chance.
Most South Africans don't condone the shit that is happening in SA, but everyone wants foreigners to come and visit.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on April 29, 2019, 11:31:41 am
Just dont criticise the Saudi's for fear of assasination (think Jamal Khashoggi), or openly state that you are an atheist (branded as a terrorist). Also remember to wipe any porn from your phone before you land...............  :eek7:

Ja right....sounds like a wonderful place to host an international ralley

You do live in a country with laws, dont you? Well it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol, so obey the laws and no problem.

And to top it of, have you been to KSA? In all the times I have flown in and out of KSA they have NEVER checked either my laptop, external HD's or phones.

To be clear I have flown into KSA 6 times already this year.

Are you serious?

We are talking about KSA
Yes it is against the law to be in possession of porn or alcohol in Saudi Arabia (KSA)
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Vintage_Mania on April 29, 2019, 11:32:48 am
No worries, mate. I'll leave it at that.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Neo_za on April 29, 2019, 11:35:11 am
@ Skaiidawg - seems you do not understand the position as to human (particularly female) rights in Saudi. Nor the fact that the death penalty and assasination is used as political tools to crush dissent against what is, effectively, a brutal dictatorship.

Having your head removed on charges of sorcery and executing juveniles is not my idea of a civilised country.

It really does not matter if you have flown into Saudi 6 times - it does not change their dismal human rights record.


Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on April 29, 2019, 11:45:09 am
@Neo_za . I do understand it perfectly. I do not discriminate against anybody, does not matter who they are. I agree the track record of KSA is not good with regards to their human rights, it is changing. Look at how the UAE have changed.

My flying into KSA was not trying to justify their human rights record but in answer to your porn on mobile comment.

Read my second comment again
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Neo_za on April 29, 2019, 12:09:25 pm
Your position, it seems, is that the Dakar can help with  reforms which is a possibility i suppose.

I, personally, do not see it that way and rather hope that teams will boikot the event - which also applies pressure.

Will be interesting to see what happens.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on April 29, 2019, 05:19:35 pm
I understand what you are saying, but I feel everyone should get a chance to try and change. So you want to have teams boikot the Dakar to put pressure on KSA, should we not rather boikot the importing of their oil where it will have a much bigger and and monetary effect?
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Neo_za on April 29, 2019, 06:26:25 pm
Dont want this thread to become a debate between us so will conclude by saying that whilst governments / economies will invariably act in their own self interest, people have the choice (except probably in Saudi) to act according to the dictates of their own moral compass and sport / cultural activities is some of the areas where this can manifest - you will recall the sport boikots against apartheid RSA as example.

So where very serious human rights violations take place i would expect people to take a stance - especially RSA teams given our history.

If it was me, i would refuse to take part in Saudi.

Ok, that is all from me on this. No point in continuing. Each to their own.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 09, 2019, 06:51:11 pm
The very reason why the Dakar was taken from Africa could play out in Saudi.

Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: YoungGSer on May 10, 2019, 09:19:16 am
It will be interesting to see what the spectator support will be like on stages! I just donít see the same passion and enthusiasm for the event in their population as a whole but I may be wrong. Those pics of massive parties next to the stage might be a thing of the past.

On a positive not, the SA passport is one of the easiest to get into Saudi as I understand. Looks like there is an online visa application so going to watch it might be a an option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Ganjora on May 10, 2019, 09:23:08 am
The very reason why the Dakar was taken from Africa could play out in Saudi.

exploding muslims!!!
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on May 10, 2019, 05:30:37 pm
The very reason why the Dakar was taken from Africa could play out in Saudi.

Care to explain?
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: RobC on May 10, 2019, 05:40:33 pm
The very reason why the Dakar was taken from Africa could play out in Saudi.

Care to explain?
Ganja explained quite well above... :sip: :snorting:
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 10, 2019, 07:59:43 pm
The very reason why the Dakar was taken from Africa could play out in Saudi.

Care to explain?

Terrorists in Mauritamia killed a few people, amongst them french nationals if I remember correctly, and Saudi is not tht safe, I'd say.

Also, for those thinking that Dakar will change Saui attitude, the Dakar rally is a pimple on a pig's bottom, and not big enough to change anything there.
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: Skaiidawg on May 10, 2019, 08:46:49 pm
So when was the last time a suicide bomber killed him/her self in Saudi?
Or a westerner kidnapped in Saudi?

Dont get me wrong. I dont like the way they are treating some people and I am not saying the Dakar will be the only event that will change the Saudi attitude but it is changing.

 
Title: Re: Dakar to move to Middle East
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 10, 2019, 09:24:38 pm
So when was the last time a suicide bomber killed him/her self in Saudi?
Or a westerner kidnapped in Saudi?

Dont get me wrong. I dont like the way they are treating some people and I am not saying the Dakar will be the only event that will change the Saudi attitude but it is changing.

Crime, especially murder, is very low in Saudi, because of their strict death penalty system.