Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Kobus Myburgh on October 19, 2019, 07:11:45 am

Title: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on October 19, 2019, 07:11:45 am
I would not consider myself a collector, but I have a couple of bikes I would like to keep long term.

This include 2 x Honda XL250Sís and a Honda XL125S.

I recently also acquired a Suzuki DF200, which was knowingly bought de-registered.  This got me thinking whether it is worth keeping the others registered and licensed. My intention is to use them, but totally off the general public roads.  The start of gravel is about 8km from our house and might be worth the risk getting to my gravel starting destination.

Iím trying to alleviate the annual licensing costs, but would like your opinion on how much the bike would devalue should I decide to de-register them.  They can always be re-registered, but will be a code 3 then.

Is there an age where license fees become obsolete?


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Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: manxkipper on October 19, 2019, 10:04:06 pm
Licence fees are less than 200zar per year. No point in trying to save that amount in my opinion. All my classics are licenced and comprehensively insured.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Mr Zog on October 20, 2019, 01:24:39 am
Keep them licensed.

As mentioned above, the cost is minimal, but you won't get them confiscated or get in kak if you do ride them to the start of the sand and the cops catch you, and their value will stay higher too. Many guys would not be interested in buying an old bike if getting it registered again would be a PITA.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Oubones on October 20, 2019, 08:11:43 am
Keep them registered because then you can take them for a spin around the block just to keep everything working right!
When I fetch my XL250 I want a registered one. :imaposer: :pot: :peepwall:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 20, 2019, 10:36:22 am
Licence fees are less than 200zar per year. No point in trying to save that amount in my opinion. All my classics are licenced and comprehensively insured.

Agree, this only becomes a problem if you have a biggish collection. What I would like to escape is the queue at the traffic department.

It helps to synchronise your licensing due dates.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: manxkipper on October 20, 2019, 04:33:06 pm
All mine are in the same month. Pay via the electronic web site snd they even post them to me. Whatís not to like?
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on October 20, 2019, 04:49:16 pm
Thanks for the responses gents.  In summary, it sounds penny wise, pound foolish to de-register them. 

Maybe I just sell the lot and then donít have to worry about anything.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: manxkipper on October 20, 2019, 05:00:35 pm
Now you and I both know that aint going to happen 😁
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 20, 2019, 09:14:19 pm
Thanks for the responses gents.  In summary, it sounds penny wise, pound foolish to de-register them. 

Maybe I just sell the lot and then donít have to worry about anything.

Yes! I'll buy Ian's Z1000 from you cheaply. :pot:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: the ruffian on October 21, 2019, 06:28:43 am
When last did you actually see cops checking vehicles on that 8k stretch of tar?
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on October 21, 2019, 07:50:40 am
We have and old Harley Davidson 10/12 and it is exempt from license fees if the following conditions are met, must be the same as it came out the factory in terms off mechanics, must be part off a old club or have proof from an organization that can verify it's age and the way it was manufactured, i:e whiteout indicators etc. Last time I checked it had to be 20 or 30 years old at least, can't remember now. That said I don't know if that is still the case and if it can still be done.

Also, yes keep them registered if possible  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: ClimbingTurtle on October 21, 2019, 07:59:34 am
Why is a de-registered bike a code 3?

I have a 1981 XT500 that the license was unpaid from 1995 until 2014 or thereabouts, I enquired as to the license state and was advised that is was de-registerd, but the history was still available (pre-e-Natis), so they could verify it was still in my name.
I re-registered it as it was not on e-Natis, and a minimal fine was issued for failing to renew the license for 20 years (about R700 iirc), they issued me the license papers, etc., all told was about R2k including roadworthy, data-dot (which I discovered was not required) and the paperwork.....

Nowdays I keep my vehicles up to date - the hassle is not worth the cost, and license renewals are available from the Post Office....
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Pavlovski on October 21, 2019, 08:05:42 am
I have a 1979 Honda CX500 & I keep it registered.....gives me peace of mind. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 21, 2019, 08:10:25 am
De-registering would be a good option if it worked like in the old days, when a deregistered vehicle could be re-registered without penalties such as code3.

Is this the case nowadays, that when re-registering a bike, it becomes a code3?

Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: manxkipper on October 21, 2019, 08:10:50 am
A bike that is no longer registered will be re registered as a built up bike. In othrr words no record of the vehicle. Most of the old British bikes I have bought were unregistered and then itís the whole palaver of police inspection and clearance before re registration. A real pain.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 21, 2019, 08:14:22 am
A bike that is no longer registered will be re registered as a built up bike. In othrr words no record of the vehicle. Most of the old British bikes I have bought were unregistered and then itís the whole palaver of police inspection and clearance before re registration. A real pain.

But does the vehicle not remain on traffic records as "deregistered"? In which case it would be a simple registration process to put it back in someone's name.

I wonder why the records would be wiped clean?
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: manxkipper on October 21, 2019, 08:37:28 am
I think it depends on when the licence fell into arrears. Some of these old bikes haven't been licenced since the 70's or 80's. I have an idea that pre enatis data was sometimes deleted. I have had bikes that came with licence disks with number plate numbers that not even the provincial authority had archive records for.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on October 21, 2019, 08:47:21 am
A bike that is no longer registered will be re registered as a built up bike. In othrr words no record of the vehicle. Most of the old British bikes I have bought were unregistered and then itís the whole palaver of police inspection and clearance before re registration. A real pain.

But does the vehicle not remain on traffic records as "deregistered"? In which case it would be a simple registration process to put it back in someone's name.

I wonder why the records would be wiped clean?

Unfortunately once de registered, it requires police clearance and data dot.  Thereafter itís fate is a Code 3 registration.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: sidetrack on October 21, 2019, 08:51:12 am
A bike that is no longer registered will be re registered as a built up bike. In othrr words no record of the vehicle. Most of the old British bikes I have bought were unregistered and then itís the whole palaver of police inspection and clearance before re registration. A real pain.

But does the vehicle not remain on traffic records as "deregistered"? In which case it would be a simple registration process to put it back in someone's name.

I wonder why the records would be wiped clean?

Unfortunately once de registered, it requires police clearance and data dot.  Thereafter itís fate is a Code 3 registration.
If you have the de registration certificate you can bypass SAPS and Datadot ?
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on October 21, 2019, 08:54:09 am
A bike that is no longer registered will be re registered as a built up bike. In othrr words no record of the vehicle. Most of the old British bikes I have bought were unregistered and then itís the whole palaver of police inspection and clearance before re registration. A real pain.

But does the vehicle not remain on traffic records as "deregistered"? In which case it would be a simple registration process to put it back in someone's name.

I wonder why the records would be wiped clean?

Unfortunately once de registered, it requires police clearance and data dot.  Thereafter itís fate is a Code 3 registration.
If you have the de registration certificate you can bypass SAPS and Datadot ?

Not according to the lady at the traffic department.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: sidetrack on October 21, 2019, 09:13:18 am
A bike that is no longer registered will be re registered as a built up bike. In othrr words no record of the vehicle. Most of the old British bikes I have bought were unregistered and then itís the whole palaver of police inspection and clearance before re registration. A real pain.

But does the vehicle not remain on traffic records as "deregistered"? In which case it would be a simple registration process to put it back in someone's name.

I wonder why the records would be wiped clean?

Unfortunately once de registered, it requires police clearance and data dot.  Thereafter itís fate is a Code 3 registration.
If you have the de registration certificate you can bypass SAPS and Datadot ?

Not according to the lady at the traffic department.
Damn not good news for the old XR I bought then  :-\
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Roxtar on October 21, 2019, 12:42:57 pm
I was enquiring just last week just here in NWest to catch up my school 50 registration which I de-registered in 1991. All I have to do is a RWC and pay ALL licence fees backdated to 1991 which will cost me around R5k.... decided against it so rather just keep your bike registered... adds value in long run :thumleft:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Roxtar on October 21, 2019, 12:44:44 pm
A bike that is no longer registered will be re registered as a built up bike. In othrr words no record of the vehicle. Most of the old British bikes I have bought were unregistered and then itís the whole palaver of police inspection and clearance before re registration. A real pain.

But does the vehicle not remain on traffic records as "deregistered"? In which case it would be a simple registration process to put it back in someone's name.

I wonder why the records would be wiped clean?

Correct Dan, I think people are confusing "de-registered" with "Scapped" here, different process altogether...
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: manxkipper on October 21, 2019, 05:21:32 pm
Unregistered isn't deregistered or scrapped. It will be a bike that has no presence on the enatis system any longer. No data requires the reintroduction of the vehicle to the system (RPI, RPC and datadot; then registration and licencing/roadworthy). None of the old bikes I have bought over the years have been scrapped. I think the scrapping certificate vehicle might be easier to reintroduce.
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on October 21, 2019, 06:05:51 pm
One of mine is deregistered and I have the papers stating that.  The answer I got today was what I mentioned earlier.  Iíll take the de registration papers there later this week and try and get some clarity from them, since all of this is very confusing and contradictory.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Roxtar on October 22, 2019, 08:37:57 am
One of mine is deregistered and I have the papers stating that.  The answer I got today was what I mentioned earlier.  Iíll take the de registration papers there later this week and try and get some clarity from them, since all of this is very confusing and contradictory.  :thumleft:

Let us know the outcome of dealings thanks Kobus... I have a suspicion it varies from province to province, and even from office to office.... ???
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Black_Hawk on October 22, 2019, 09:20:26 am
One of mine is deregistered and I have the papers stating that.  The answer I got today was what I mentioned earlier.  Iíll take the de registration papers there later this week and try and get some clarity from them, since all of this is very confusing and contradictory.  :thumleft:

Let us know the outcome of dealings thanks Kobus... I have a suspicion it varies from province to province, and even from office to office.... ???

I have the same suspicion  :-\

Following this thread to see what the outcome will be
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Maverick on October 24, 2019, 09:09:36 am
I was enquiring just last week just here in NWest to catch up my school 50 registration which I de-registered in 1991. All I have to do is a RWC and pay ALL licence fees backdated to 1991 which will cost me around R5k.... decided against it so rather just keep your bike registered... adds value in long run :thumleft:

I thought the whole reason to de-register a vehicle is to keep it off the road and therefor no longer need to pay any licence fees. If I understand the above correct......

I bought a F250 truck which was de-registered in 2008 and parked up until now never used by the previous owner again. I bought it and fixing it up to get it roadworthy/police clearance/data dot to register it in my name etc. So Why would I be liable for licence fees over the past 11 years if it was not on the road?
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: JonS on October 24, 2019, 10:01:41 am
https://www.gov.za/services/transport/apply-motor-trade-number-and-permit

Around R250 annually for a motorcycle trade plate in the Cape, makes things a lot easier.

Signed up for one years ago, took about 2 weeks to be registered as a "motor dealer"
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on October 24, 2019, 01:27:45 pm
Ek dink ek is nou agter die kap van die byl.  Sal in my beste Engels probeer verduidelik.

There is two forms of deregistration:

Deregistration by request:

This is done on the ADV(9)(2012/03) form.  There is 3 respective reasons for deregistration:

- Motor vehicle stolen (Regulation 54)
- Motor vehicle permanently unfit for use (scrap)
- Motor vehicle exempted from registration

A vehicle is only exempt from registration if itís a vintage and you belong to a club.  The vehicle may only be used for club events.  In any ordinary/general use it will attract a fine as for an unlicensed or deregistered vehicle.

In the instance of a stolen vehicle, I think it gets registered as a code 2 subsequent to all police clearance, data dot etc.

For reason no. 2, you need police clearance and data dot, after which it gets registered as a code 3.

If you reregister due to reason no. 3, they actually donít know how it works.  I guess itís quite uncommon.

Deregistration by default:

This happens when you simply donít pay your license fees.  Normally after a period of 3 to 4 years, which varies in the different provinces it seems.

You will not necessarily be in possession of said deregistration certificate, but will show as such on the system.  When application is made to reregister the vehicle, it gets pulled from the archives and, providing you pay all license fees in arrears since date of defect, it gets registered again.  The lady was a little bit unsure, but believe in this instance it would probably not be a code 3.  If itís a subsequent change of ownership, police clearance and data dot might be required.


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Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Maverick on October 24, 2019, 04:01:43 pm
Buy a donkey @Kobus Myburgh  :biggrin: Die ou by wie ek die bakkie gekoop het, homself die de-registration in persoon gaan doen en moes betaal vir dit. Ek sit met die de-registration vorm gedoen 2008-12-17 en 'n bedrag van R378.40 was betaal. vir dit. Hy lyk dieselfde as 'n gewone lisensie of registrasie dokument behalwe dat daar indie boonste hoekie staan "Certificate of Deregistration in respect of motor vehicle" Ek sal more bietjie mensepaaliteit toe gaan en kyk of hulle my meer inligting kan gee oor die proses om hom weer terug op die pad te kry. Prince Albert werk gewoonlik heeltemal anders as die res van die land  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Old bikes - do you keep them registered?
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on October 24, 2019, 06:22:46 pm
Buy a donkey @Kobus Myburgh  :biggrin: Die ou by wie ek die bakkie gekoop het, homself die de-registration in persoon gaan doen en moes betaal vir dit. Ek sit met die de-registration vorm gedoen 2008-12-17 en 'n bedrag van R378.40 was betaal. vir dit. Hy lyk dieselfde as 'n gewone lisensie of registrasie dokument behalwe dat daar indie boonste hoekie staan "Certificate of Deregistration in respect of motor vehicle" Ek sal more bietjie mensepaaliteit toe gaan en kyk of hulle my meer inligting kan gee oor die proses om hom weer terug op die pad te kry. Prince Albert werk gewoonlik heeltemal anders as die res van die land  :peepwall:

Plesier.  :thumleft:  Ek het versuim om te sÍ dat daar is ook vrywaring van lisensie gelde as jy jou voertuig slegs iets soos 1km op Ďn publieke grondpad gebruik.