Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Die Malletjie on January 13, 2020, 10:19:27 pm

Title: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Die Malletjie on January 13, 2020, 10:19:27 pm
I am not in the habit of naming and shaming but in this case I have no choice! It is in the interest of the general public.

Early July 2019 I gave my BMW R1200GSA to a second hand motorcycle dealer in Durbanville as he assured me he had a few possible buyers for my bike. Living in Willowmore it’s difficult to get guys to come and have a look at the bike, so why not.

Nothing came of the possible's and he and I advertised and he gave me regular feedback on how difficult it was to sell my bike, high mileage, wrong colour and being a base model.

Left for Belgium 28 July and got back 27 August and still no sale but when we met up he tells me he is considering buying the bike for himself as it is such a nice bike! This however never materialised and many phone calls later I am assured my bike is difficult to sell.

Sunday 10 November I have a discussion with him as to what is happening with the bike and he had an offer of R10000 less than what I ask! I say no and decide I will advertise myself again. I do so and the next day I have two prospects but at 22h00 I get a call from a person telling me I can’t sell that bike as it has been registered in her name since October 13!

Next morning I call the sales guy and say I have a buyer and he has not to worry anymore, needless to say it gets quite, when he speaks he says he has sold the bike as well, the guys is picking it up in the morning and paying cash the price I ask. Then I spill the beans and obviously he denies, but I sent him the registration papers I by then had received from the lady.

That’s not the end of it, the lady did not buy it from my guy but someone else. Eventually we traced the paper trail and my sales guy had given the bike to another sales person he owed money to under the pretext he bought the bike from us and paid in full. That sales document we have as well, dated 27 August, note that’s the day I came back from Belgium.

Somewhere in August he put some money in my account to pacify me but 13 November after he was caught out he paid R50000 instantly. Now in December I got the remainder of what he owed me!

Now, he got the bike early in July, gave it away end August to pay debt and held on to my money till he was caught out mid November and only paid the rest in December. This after bull and bull and bull.

Now who is this guy? Shaun Dickens (Ex Hamman motorrad, ex GS Traders) working from RCR motorcycles Durban road, Bellville. I was warned against him but against my better judgement, I ignored! Just don’t ignore my warning! Stay far away from him, wherever he works or whatever transaction he may propose!

You been warned!
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 13, 2020, 10:23:56 pm
Seems like a dickens.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 13, 2020, 10:29:24 pm
YOH  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Bring It On on January 14, 2020, 06:31:00 am
That is really not cool at all.  >:(
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: dual on January 14, 2020, 06:41:52 am
Ek het gister met die ou gepraat, dis juis die BMW waarvan ek weggestap het
Ou skelm klink dit my
Nou is ek eers bly ek het weggestap
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Bring It On on January 14, 2020, 06:53:50 am
Ek het gister met die ou gepraat, dis juis die BMW waarvan ek weggestap het
Ou skelm klink dit my
Nou is ek eers bly ek het weggestap
Baie bly om te hoor het weg gestap van daai Bike.

Klink rerig die ou is 'n groot skelm.

Sent from my BV9500 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 14, 2020, 07:18:33 am
Stuk saad van die wildehond.... :-\
Title: Name and shame
Post by: Rouxman on January 14, 2020, 07:25:33 am
Ek vermoed die gaan ń kannetjie wurms oop maak...
My ondervinding is dat in sulke gevalle is daar nooit net een so ń gebeurtenis nie.




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Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Casting from Turd on January 14, 2020, 07:40:28 am
We have them in PE as well  :lamer:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 14, 2020, 08:13:40 am
This is not the first time I've heard of very dodgy dealings/service from RCR.

Last I heard it's a new owner, I assume Shaun, but I also heard the previous owner also did dodgy dealings and apparently spent time in prison for fraud.

Seems to me that place is a magnet for bad business, yet there's always nice bikes on the floor.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 14, 2020, 10:02:06 am
Mr. Dickens just posted this on FB (Proudly Meerkat):

"Good day guys there was a post placed from Jumper's place Willowmore about me selling his bike and keeping the money. There is always 2 sides of a story . Yes I did send the bike to another sales guy because he had a client interested in the bike and because its a 2010 base bike with 115000km on I thought it would be great to get it sold and I did not owe the other sales guy money that is false. What he does not state in his story is , I gave them R15000 long before the bike was sold and was still on the floor because I new they where financially in trouble and also when he came into the shop after I have paid him all his money I still gave him a set of off road goggles for free. I did not take a sent commission on the bike it was sold for R75000 and that is what they wanted for the bike and this is also not the 1st bike I have sold for them and him being warned about me also is bull further more when Ronnie had a training event I gave him one of my bikes to use with out asking him a sent . I am not gonna go into a long discussion about this on face book , Ronnie had a bike with high km and I did my best to sell it for him and gave him all his money and that is the end off it"
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Edgar on January 14, 2020, 10:16:20 am
Ek het gister met die ou gepraat, dis juis die BMW waarvan ek weggestap het
Ou skelm klink dit my
Nou is ek eers bly ek het weggestap

Hou eerder jou 660Z, jy gaan spyt wees as jy hom verkoop/trade op 'n 1200GS
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: dual on January 14, 2020, 10:24:10 am
Ek het gister met die ou gepraat, dis juis die BMW waarvan ek weggestap het
Ou skelm klink dit my
Nou is ek eers bly ek het weggestap

Hou eerder jou 660Z, jy gaan spyt wees as jy hom verkoop/trade op 'n 1200GS

Lus vir 1200, maar die belangstelling is maar traag op die XT, sal hom hou en gebruik tot hy gaan
Ek het al foute in die verlede gemaak, dis maar wie ek is  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Edgar on January 14, 2020, 10:45:10 am
Ja toemaar ek verstaan  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: TeeJay on January 14, 2020, 11:21:48 am


Somewhere in August he put some money in my account to pacify me


And when did you notice this?
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Tyre kicker on January 14, 2020, 11:39:07 am


Somewhere in August he put some money in my account to pacify me


And when did you notice this?

Why would you be asking a question like this!!! ::)
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on January 14, 2020, 11:42:36 am
Its the 1st time I hear of someone posting their bike for sale on Gumtree and someone else who bought the bike sees the advert and contacts the seller to say that have already bought the bike.  :ricky:

Must have been a bit of a shock  :o

Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Superboet on January 14, 2020, 11:44:41 am
 :pot:
Ek vermoed die gaan ń kannetjie wurms oop maak...
My ondervinding is dat in sulke gevalle is daar nooit net een so ń gebeurtenis nie.




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Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: OomD on January 14, 2020, 12:01:00 pm
Waar dit stink... is 'n drol gewoonlik in die omgewing.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 14, 2020, 12:02:39 pm
Mr. Dickens just posted this on FB (Proudly Meerkat):

"Good day guys there was a post placed from Jumper's place Willowmore about me selling his bike and keeping the money. There is always 2 sides of a story . Yes I did send the bike to another sales guy because he had a client interested in the bike and because its a 2010 base bike with 115000km on I thought it would be great to get it sold and I did not owe the other sales guy money that is false. What he does not state in his story is , I gave them R15000 long before the bike was sold and was still on the floor because I new they where financially in trouble and also when he came into the shop after I have paid him all his money I still gave him a set of off road goggles for free. I did not take a sent commission on the bike it was sold for R75000 and that is what they wanted for the bike and this is also not the 1st bike I have sold for them and him being warned about me also is bull further more when Ronnie had a training event I gave him one of my bikes to use with out asking him a sent . I am not gonna go into a long discussion about this on face book , Ronnie had a bike with high km and I did my best to sell it for him and gave him all his money and that is the end off it"

Hy praat anyway kak. Watter salesman sal jou geld betaal nog voordat hy die bike "verkoop" het.

Onthou, die kitaar gaan nou enige ding vertel to safe his face.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 14, 2020, 12:04:59 pm
Mr. Dickens just posted this on FB (Proudly Meerkat):

"Good day guys there was a post placed from Jumper's place Willowmore about me selling his bike and keeping the money. There is always 2 sides of a story . Yes I did send the bike to another sales guy because he had a client interested in the bike and because its a 2010 base bike with 115000km on I thought it would be great to get it sold and I did not owe the other sales guy money that is false. What he does not state in his story is , I gave them R15000 long before the bike was sold and was still on the floor because I new they where financially in trouble and also when he came into the shop after I have paid him all his money I still gave him a set of off road goggles for free. I did not take a sent commission on the bike it was sold for R75000 and that is what they wanted for the bike and this is also not the 1st bike I have sold for them and him being warned about me also is bull further more when Ronnie had a training event I gave him one of my bikes to use with out asking him a sent . I am not gonna go into a long discussion about this on face book , Ronnie had a bike with high km and I did my best to sell it for him and gave him all his money and that is the end off it"

Hy praat anyway kak. Watter salesman sal jou geld betaal nog voordat hy die bike "verkoop" het.

Onthou, die kitaar gaan nou enige ding vertel to safe his face.

Ek glo ook so.
Veral in 'n public space soos social media/FB.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Die Malletjie on January 14, 2020, 12:19:45 pm
Just the sales letter?
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: TheHamster on January 14, 2020, 12:34:39 pm
Just the sales letter?

"There is always 2 sides of a story"..... .as the salesman says. He got that wrong too; always 3 sides to a story.

That said, this letter is a little incriminating.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Tman21 on January 14, 2020, 12:38:06 pm
Stuur sommer die Kyalami ninja's om die perd uit te sort!
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Edgar on January 14, 2020, 01:02:57 pm
Stuur sommer die Kyalami ninja's om die perd uit te sort!

 :laughing4:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 14, 2020, 01:10:13 pm
Just the sales letter?

En daar kak hy........

Upload dit sommer op daai Meerkat Facebook page  >:D
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Grunder on January 14, 2020, 01:31:27 pm
Just the sales letter?

En daar kak hy........

Upload dit sommer op daai Meerkat Facebook page  >:D

Doen dit!!!
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Eendstop on January 14, 2020, 01:35:21 pm
Oops. Die waarheid is 'n bliksem. Hy het 'n manier om uit te kom. Ek stem, publiseer die brief, en dankie vir wat ek sien as 'n diens aan ander om almal te waarsku. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 14, 2020, 01:36:17 pm
Met daai statement van hom, vertel hy nou vir almal die OP praat kak en lieg...

Upload daai brief, en die monde sal stil begin raak....
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 14, 2020, 01:39:50 pm
......daai brief is klaar ge-upload in die comments.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Grunder on January 14, 2020, 01:43:02 pm
......daai brief is klaar ge-upload in die comments.

Lekker man, lekker!!
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Lem on January 14, 2020, 01:58:57 pm
wat my verstand te bowe gaan is dat sommige mense steeds dink so n verkoopsbrief dra enige krag. Dis veral erg as dit kom van n handelaar nogals  :eek7: iemand in die trade.

geen voertuig word oorgedra sonder 'n NATIS geel vorm (verkoper) en 'n blou vorm (koper) wat ingedien is nie.

Dis baie jammer. Ek het in 2008 met Shaun gedeal by Hamman Motorrad en sou nooit so iets onderduims verwag het nie.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 14, 2020, 02:08:45 pm
......daai brief is klaar ge-upload in die comments.

Amen.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: TheHamster on January 14, 2020, 02:47:22 pm
......daai brief is klaar ge-upload in die comments.

Pouring some more coffee, popcorn almost done......getting ready for his response.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Grunder on January 14, 2020, 02:49:13 pm
......daai brief is klaar ge-upload in die comments.

Pouring some more coffee, popcorn almost done......getting ready for his response.

Nee daai is game set and match. 

Hy sal nie comment nie. 

Sal suicide wees
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 14, 2020, 02:53:37 pm
Sorry ouens, ek kry nie meer die posts/comments nie, ek is nie die beste met social media nie. :lol8:

Laaste wat ek gesien het was die man redelik defensive, en na daai brief gepost was het hy nogsteeds klein bietjie probeer baklei, maar hy het toe stil/weg geraak, die mense het hom taamlik vas gevat na daai brief.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Thunderlinde on January 14, 2020, 03:18:12 pm
Die post is nou stil omdat:

"Shaun Dickens turned off commenting for this post."

So niemand kan meer aanhou karring nie.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Rouxman on January 14, 2020, 03:19:38 pm
Ek gaan nog binnekort my storie ook vertel.



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Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Tman21 on January 14, 2020, 03:28:16 pm
Ek gaan nog binnekort my storie ook vertel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nie terug hou nie broer, ons is hier om te luister! :deal:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Kaboef on January 14, 2020, 03:32:49 pm
Daai sales letter is moerse confusing.

Of my kontrak-reg kennis is moerse verkak.


Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Thunderlinde on January 14, 2020, 03:43:13 pm
Lyk amper of daai brief n poging was om n koop/verkoop ooreenkoms en n affidavit te opfoksolideer in een brief in.
Good job!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: punisher on January 14, 2020, 03:52:26 pm
 O0
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Rouxman on January 14, 2020, 03:52:45 pm
Ek gaan nog binnekort my storie ook vertel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nie terug hou nie broer, ons is hier om te luister! :deal:

Ek werk net mooi aan my opstel.

Dit is feitlik gebaseer sonder emosie. Wou eintlik al lankal maar na my tweede besoek by die prokureer vandag lyk dit soos die regte ding om te doen.

My storie moet vir publieke kennis wees ter inligting. Elke mens kan van daar af hom / haar eie besluite neem.

Ek gaan n nuwe fred begin vir die een.


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Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: punisher on January 14, 2020, 03:55:17 pm
Ek gaan nog binnekort my storie ook vertel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nie terug hou nie broer, ons is hier om te luister! :deal:

Ek werk net mooi aan my opstel.

Dit is feitlik gebaseer sonder emosie. Wou eintlik al lankal maar na my tweede besoek by die prokureer vandag lyk dit soos die regte ding om te doen.

My storie moet vir publieke kennis wees ter inligting. Elke mens kan van daar af hom / haar eie besluite neem.

Ek gaan n nuwe fred begin vir die een.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

at least post the link here
pleeeeeeeeeez
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Rouxman on January 14, 2020, 03:55:49 pm
Ek gaan nog binnekort my storie ook vertel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nie terug hou nie broer, ons is hier om te luister! :deal:

Ek werk net mooi aan my opstel.

Dit is feitlik gebaseer sonder emosie. Wou eintlik al lankal maar na my tweede besoek by die prokureer vandag lyk dit soos die regte ding om te doen.

My storie moet vir publieke kennis wees ter inligting. Elke mens kan van daar af hom / haar eie besluite neem.

Ek gaan n nuwe fred begin vir die een.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

at least post the link here
pleeeeeeeeeez

Will do.


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Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Gerrard on January 14, 2020, 04:03:22 pm
Ja-nee
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Kaboef on January 14, 2020, 04:28:54 pm
Ja-nee

Julle prokureurs kom sirkel ook net soos aasvoels rondom threads soos die.

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: JustBendIt on January 14, 2020, 04:32:19 pm
It is kak like this that gives all of us used vehicle dealers a bad name ... I think it is good to name and shame because hopefully it will squeeze these "sleg etters" out of the industry when nobody wants to deal with them anymore

The South African used bike marketplace is very small ...word will get around quickly
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Kortbroek on January 14, 2020, 05:17:03 pm
Waarokal daar 2de handse motors of motorfietse etc verkoop word sal daar maar 'n sleazy f*kker wees wat 'n gap sien  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Edgar on January 14, 2020, 05:24:36 pm
Waarokal daar 2de handse motors of motorfietse etc verkoop word sal daar maar 'n sleazy f*kker wees wat 'n gap sien  :peepwall:

Hey sies moenie so van JustBendIt praat nie.  :P
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Vis Arend on January 14, 2020, 08:35:15 pm
 :sip:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 14, 2020, 08:53:25 pm
Daai sales letter is moerse confusing.

Of my kontrak-reg kennis is moerse verkak.

Dit is a verklaring wat se hy is die wettige eienaar vd bike(kak storie), die bike is in full betaal(kak storie) en dat hy die fiets aan die ander Mpy op die brief verkoop.

Fok, so brief in die Hof glo ek sal n man diep sink jong.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Riebeek on January 15, 2020, 02:23:00 pm
Sal interresant wees om 4stroke se weergawe te hoor.  Ek het net goeie dinge om te vertel van JK Redelinghuys.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Fudmucker on January 15, 2020, 02:59:11 pm
The moral of the story is ....
DON'T sign the NCO change of ownership form unless you have received payment !

If you are going to be overseas etc. and want to expedite the sale, leave an signed, undated form with a trusted friend to deliver to the buyer on your instruction when the money is transferred.

https://www.westerncape.gov.za/other/2006/3/nco_notification_change_of_ownership_or_sale_motor_vehicle.pdf
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 15, 2020, 11:55:31 pm
The "signing" change of Ownership form is useless.

On all my bikes and cars that Ive sold, never once did I have to sign one. Dealer sommer signs on my behalf when they sell the vehicles.

It can be signed by anybody. I mean, who at Licence department checks Signatures.....
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 16, 2020, 05:19:48 am
@Manic has it right. I don't know of anybody that uses dealers or service providers that has to sign anything to get vehicles either transferred or relisenced. It just gets done. What is beneficial if you have sold on is to hand in the NCO as seller which means that the burden of the responsibility now lays with the buyer and there will not be any nasty surprises waiting on you.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Fudmucker on January 16, 2020, 06:33:02 am
The "signing" change of Ownership form is useless.

On all my bikes and cars that Ive sold, never once did I have to sign one. Dealer sommer signs on my behalf when they sell the vehicles.

It can be signed by anybody. I mean, who at Licence department checks Signatures.....

By signing "on your behalf" as owner they commit fraud.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 16, 2020, 06:49:26 am
Fudmucker is right, except that you also has to keep the original certificate of registration back until bike is sold, and you have the money.

Once you hand this very important document to another person, you lose control of this vehicle.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Pullaway on January 16, 2020, 08:22:03 am
The "signing" change of Ownership form is useless.

On all my bikes and cars that Ive sold, never once did I have to sign one. Dealer sommer signs on my behalf when they sell the vehicles.

It can be signed by anybody. I mean, who at Licence department checks Signatures.....
Correct, the registration is only to get your fines to you. People often confuse the registration papers with the transfer of immovable property, that need to go trough the deeds office.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Vintage_Mania on January 16, 2020, 09:01:29 am
By signing "on your behalf" as owner they commit fraud.

Not necessarily. The bigger businesses like Dakra signs on your behalf and hands in the ID doc from the Dakra rep that signed with your ID and docs. Totally legal.

How the vehicle gets through the RW while still standing in someone's yard, well......
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Bliknêrs on January 16, 2020, 12:58:44 pm
I sold a bakkie and was a bit lazy so when I took the yellow form a week late, the buyer has already registered the vehicle without it.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Jughead on January 16, 2020, 01:21:52 pm
Just the sales letter?

(http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=244345.0;attach=665341;image)

Yes, this letter is VERY confusing.

Who the hell is LV Zaaiman?  According to the letter, the bike was not purchased from Ronnie De Sot, although in the OP he states it is his bike.  The registration number is also not valid.  That is the vehicle register number, which is exactly the same as all other bikes of the same model.

There is absolutely no link between this letter and Ronnie's bike.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Grunder on January 16, 2020, 01:28:57 pm
Just the sales letter?

(http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=244345.0;attach=665341;image)

Yes, this letter is VERY confusing.

Who the hell is LV Zaaiman?  According to the letter, the bike was not purchased from Ronnie De Sot, although in the OP he states it is his bike.  The registration number is also not valid.  That is the vehicle register number, which is exactly the same as all other bikes of the same model.

There is absolutely no link between this letter and Ronnie's bike.

Let's say this document was valid, surely the the seller would also have to sign it  :patch:

Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Jughead on January 16, 2020, 01:34:30 pm
Let's say this document was valid, surely the the seller would also have to sign it  :patch:

Not necessarily.  If I purchase something from you and you issue me with a receipt, you sign the receipt, not me.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Fudmucker on January 16, 2020, 01:40:43 pm
There is clearly a problem regarding the registration of change of ownership of used vehicles which is promoting vehicle theft.

A Toyota Hilux bakkie was stolen in Gauteng.  Less than a week later, the vehicle was spotted by the legal owner driving around near to where it was stolen.
He blocked in the vehicle when it parked at a builder supply and called the police.
When they arrived, the driver claimed he had bought it legally from a dealer in Quaqua and showed a receipt from the day before.
The legal owner still had the registration certificate in his possession.

The vehicle theft unit investigation showed the bakkie was stolen on a Monday, registered in KZN the same day, re-registered in E.Cape a day later, re-registered in F.State the day after and then re-registered again in Gauteng on the Friday morning - all under new license plate numbers. The odometer on the bakkie showed that the vehicle had not travelled more than 200kms since being stolen, so the vehicle was never inspected by any registration officials during the process.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Kaboef on January 16, 2020, 01:47:32 pm
Edited for stating the obvious

Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Jughead on January 16, 2020, 01:59:55 pm
The vehicle theft unit investigation showed the bakkie was stolen on a Monday, registered in KZN the same day, re-registered in E.Cape a day later, ...

First and only port of call for the police, if they were actually competent enough to do their jobs, would be to visit whoever registered it in KZN (this being the person behind the counter).  They (whoever stole it) obviously has a contact there that registers vehicle for them (at a price) without the original documentation.  Change of ownership (I do it often) can only be done on presentation of the original registration docs.

Once the fucker in KZN has done the registration, they now have a valid registration document, so all the other transactions are (in theory) valid.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: m0lt3n on January 16, 2020, 02:10:56 pm
The "signing" change of Ownership form is useless.

On all my bikes and cars that Ive sold, never once did I have to sign one. Dealer sommer signs on my behalf when they sell the vehicles.

It can be signed by anybody. I mean, who at Licence department checks Signatures.....

True story
I may or may not also have bought a vehicle from mr Manic where he signed nothing

signed nothing with his own hand that is....
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Manic on January 16, 2020, 02:15:52 pm
The "signing" change of Ownership form is useless.

On all my bikes and cars that Ive sold, never once did I have to sign one. Dealer sommer signs on my behalf when they sell the vehicles.

It can be signed by anybody. I mean, who at Licence department checks Signatures.....

True story
I may or may not also have bought a vehicle from mr Manic where he signed nothing

signed nothing with his own hand that is....

Ek teken fokkol as my Prokureur nie saam is nie  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Eisbein on January 16, 2020, 02:21:26 pm
Once the fucker in KZN has done the registration, they now have a valid registration document, so all the other transactions are (in theory) valid.

It also takes care of the actual owner's name  not showing up on the new reg document as that has scrolled off the bottom due to the last 3 registrations

I work in IT and I think the principle is the same everywhere: Any system is only as secure as the people who work with it.
That bakkie's multiple rergistrations has got to be an inside job
I suppose it is very easy to have a colleague's password and when he/she's not there to log in and reprint a registration document and then continue from there.

Years ago I had an issue with a car - it was standing for almost 3 months and then when I went to renew the license they told me it was exported to Zimbabwe and not on my name anymore.
Luckily I had someone who still cared behind the counter, but she could find zero traces of the transactions, so they reversed it all, but still (I am still wondering what benefit it was to have the paperwork done like that - maybe they used it to move another (stolen) car of the same brand/colour across the border)

Also a couple of years ago there was an issue with someone in Vodacom and Absa working together
The guy in Absa will get the details of a client, send it to the guy at Vodacom. The Vodacom guy will do a 'sim swap'. Absa guy creates beneficiary, Vodacom guy gets the OTP, Absa guy does a transfer, Vodacom guy swaps sim back and the client doesn't even know what has happened up to where he checks his balance.

If you are criminally inclined and you have a system where you can register/re register any vehicle at your fingertips I wonder how long it will take before you start falling for extramural ways to supplement your salary.

Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Operator on January 16, 2020, 02:54:57 pm
Ek teken fokkol as my Prokureur nie saam is nie  :imaposer:

Fyn brag  ;)  :lol8:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Gerrard on January 16, 2020, 02:58:47 pm
So waaroor gaan die thread nou eintlik ?  Bike is verkoop en verkoper het sy geld gekry.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Jughead on January 16, 2020, 03:01:17 pm

That bakkie's multiple rergistrations has got to be an inside job


Only the first one in KZN needs to be an inside job.  All the other can be done by anyone, since there is now "valid" paperwork for the vehicle.


Years ago I had an issue with a car - it was standing for almost 3 months and then when I went to renew the license they told me it was exported to Zimbabwe and not on my name anymore.

A number of years ago here in PE there was a case with one of my colleagues.  He went to renew the vehicle license (still at the traffic dept).  The cashier asked him for the proxy letter from the owner.  He was confused, produced his ID and informed her that the car was outside and he was the owner.  She said no, he wasn't, and that the vehicle had been re-registered 3 days prior to someone else.

Cut a long story short, he had to hide the vehicle away until all was sorted.  Insider changes the registration to the "new owner".  Not a problem, as the vehicle has not been reported stolen.  A few days later they come to "collect" your car.  The catch is at this point, you cannot even report it as stolen, since it is not longer your car.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Rouxman on January 16, 2020, 03:03:27 pm
So waaroor gaan die thread nou eintlik ?  Bike is verkoop en verkoper het sy geld gekry.

Modus operandi.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: WannaBeJoe on January 16, 2020, 03:26:12 pm
My brother-in-law had a car stolen and also spotted it some time later traveling on the N1 towards Cape Town. Called the police who asked him to shadow the vehicle until he gets passed by police car. All went down as planned and car gets pulled over by police and poor guy behind the wheel in total state of panic. Turns out he has legal papers for the car and bought it from a 2nd hand dealership. The big issue according to the police was that once a car is reported as stolen it gets flagged or registered by the police on a database and literally two or three people in the police have the authority to remove a car from that database. So clearly a high-level inside job. He never heard what if anything happened as surely the person who pulled the car off the list could be traced via login and password. Don't even know if the current "owner"lost the car or not.

This was some years ago so do not know what the current system with regards to a car reported as stolen is.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Die Malletjie on January 16, 2020, 05:57:30 pm
Quote"
Who the hell is LV Zaaiman?  According to the letter, the bike was not purchased from Ronnie De Sot, although in the OP he states it is his bike.  The registration number is also not valid.  That is the vehicle register number, which is exactly the same as all other bikes of the same model.

There is absolutely no link between this letter and Ronnie's bike." unquote



It is my bike or rather ours, LV Zaayman is my better half. Regarding the registration number, no fucking idea!
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Dux on January 16, 2020, 06:39:37 pm
Just the sales letter?

(http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=244345.0;attach=665341;image)

Yes, this letter is VERY confusing.

Who the hell is LV Zaaiman?  According to the letter, the bike was not purchased from Ronnie De Sot, although in the OP he states it is his bike.  The registration number is also not valid.  That is the vehicle register number, which is exactly the same as all other bikes of the same model.

There is absolutely no link between this letter and Ronnie's bike.

Small correction , the Vehicle Register Number is issued by NaTIS upon first registration in the country and stays with the bike it’s whole life .
The NaTIS code is given to a model range of bike once it has been tested and certified with NaTIS , so all bikes in a model range will have the same number , if there is a discernible change in a model range then it gets a new number .
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Dux on January 16, 2020, 06:53:34 pm
My brother sold his car , funds in his account , next day funds are gone so he reports car as stolen . A week later they find the car , within 30 hours the car had gone through 4 changes of ownership , which is also not allowed , a vehicle may only be registered once in a day , if it happens more than once then it will trigger an alarm with the staff member at the licensing department . The vehicle was eventually sold ‘ legally ‘ to an innocent buyer who was nailed when he went to license it .
Aftermath was that brother eventually got his car back , a few months later . The first four changes of ownership happened at the same teller , she was arrested , gave the names of other guys and a bunch of them were imprisoned .
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: WannaBeJoe on January 16, 2020, 08:56:20 pm
My brother sold his car , funds in his account , next day funds are gone so he reports car as stolen . A week later they find the car , within 30 hours the car had gone through 4 changes of ownership , which is also not allowed , a vehicle may only be registered once in a day , if it happens more than once then it will trigger an alarm with the staff member at the licensing department . The vehicle was eventually sold ‘ legally ‘ to an innocent buyer who was nailed when he went to license it .
Aftermath was that brother eventually got his car back , a few months later . The first four changes of ownership happened at the same teller , she was arrested , gave the names of other guys and a bunch of them were imprisoned .

Tsk, tsk, tsk ...... you mean "the person" was arrested. You have been called out buddy. Enough with this sexist crap!
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Dux on January 16, 2020, 09:47:28 pm
My brother sold his car , funds in his account , next day funds are gone so he reports car as stolen . A week later they find the car , within 30 hours the car had gone through 4 changes of ownership , which is also not allowed , a vehicle may only be registered once in a day , if it happens more than once then it will trigger an alarm with the staff member at the licensing department . The vehicle was eventually sold ‘ legally ‘ to an innocent buyer who was nailed when he went to license it .
Aftermath was that brother eventually got his car back , a few months later . The first four changes of ownership happened at the same teller , she was arrested , gave the names of other guys and a bunch of them were imprisoned .

Tsk, tsk, tsk ...... you mean "the person" was arrested. You have been called out buddy. Enough with this sexist crap!

Guilty as charged your honor , how could I be so thoughtless of its feelings   :lol8:
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Bottelboer on January 17, 2020, 09:23:19 am
Letter is actually useless,if from a dealer....why, coss even in a cash deal you need a used sales invoice,2nd, where is the FICA docs? 3rd the NATIS document? Just asking..
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Tyre kicker on January 17, 2020, 10:55:01 am
Hierdie ou is mos bekend en al 'n rukkie 'n skelm moer en dus sal ek hom gaan besoek waar ook al hy werk en hom so bietjie reg help op die reguit pad wat hy so duister geraak het.. :biggrin:
Title: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 17, 2020, 03:18:40 pm
The following is current events.

This post will receive regular diary style updates from me until this issue has a resolute.

Feel free to share this far and wide.

There is a lot to read but all relevant for the purpose of transparency and honesty so get your popcorn ready.

Preface

It’s easy to think and say something however the doing is another matter.
I’ve been thinking about this post for a few weeks. I’ve been saying I’m going to do it, even to the recipient. But then, I think of his family, his reputation, my morality, my principles, forgiveness, right and wrong, the possible outcomes negative and positive and my sanity.
I also think of others that could have been affected like me, who, for whatever reason don’t speak out publicly, and others who might still be affected. Again, I challenge my own morality, principles and duty to the community in this regard.
As I’m typing this it feels more right than wrong so I’m going with my gut although I don’t do it lightly.
So, without further a due, I’m hanging my dirty washing out in public for all to see.
May you find the following informative, factual and may it have a positive outcome firstly for the receiver (he may not see that now), the reader and the writer.

Background

It 2009 I bought a new BMW R1200GSA from then Hamman Motorrad. The salesman and I subsequently became friends and times were good. He was a good friend in a difficult time in my life. In 2010 I moved out of CT and we lost contact. In 2016 I moved back to CT and we eventually met up again in 2018. We did a couple of rides together and times were good.
In Short
During a weekend ride out he arrived with a motorcycle that he said is for sale. The Mrs was in the market but needed to sell her bike first.
On the Monday (18 Nov 2019) I received a WhatsApp message from him offering us R45k for the Mrs’s 2008 BMW F650GS as a trade in on the 2008 Blue BMW R1200GS he rode on the weekend. We wanted R45k for the 650 so we were pleased with the offer and the 1200GS looked to be in good condition. We would also not have the hassle of selling the 650 which counts for a bit in my book. In addition, according to him at the time, the 1200GS had a full BMW service history and was well looked after. In my mind, the offer came from a friend and both of us had affiliations with the same groups of people. I felt it was a fair deal although the 1200GS was priced slightly above market (insurable) value. Since we got what we wanted for the 650GS I agreed to the sale and paid out the difference of R35k + R1500 on the road fee.
A few days later we had the bike and the Mrs was absolutely delighted. Another few days later the Mrs collected the NATIS from the shop and life was good. Since we live in a different district from where the bike was bought, we had to go to our local council in order to put the bike in her name. The bike was put through roadworthy by my mate who also offered to refunded me the R1500 “on the road fee” since we had to go and do the rest ourselves. No problem at all. The R1500 was received in full. Thanx bud!!
On 3rd December 2019 the Mrs asked me to have a number plate made for her. She gave me the papers, and this was the first time I laid eyes on the NATIS. It was then when I noticed the “Built-Up / Opgebou” on the NATIS.
There and then I realised we bought a Code 3 motorcycle.
I immediately sent Shaun Dickens from whom I bought the motorcycle a picture of the NaTIS asking him to explain.

Diary

Monday 18/11/2019
At 7:53 I received a WhatsApp message from Shaun with the following:
“2008 full spec met tasse boekie en spaar sleutel full service. Ek sal jou R45000 gee vir jou 650 lat weet as julle wil kyk”
This message was accompanied by three pictures of a Blue BMW R1200GS.
I then asked Shaun to send me pictures of the following:
NATIS, Service books showing services, Keys, Frame no, Engine No, number on back of speedo cluster.
I also asked how many previous owners the bike had.
Shaun sent me pictures of the licence disc, vin no on frame, a book, a key.
I asked if there is only one key and again how many owners.
Shaun responded and said two keys and two owners.
Shaun then asked for pictures of the 650.
I sent lots of pictures.
He asked what the mileage was, and I responded with a picture of the mileage. I also gave as full description of the current condition as well as known faults like the missing rear wheel guard.
Shaun then left me a voice message stating that the service light had come on and that one of the tyre pressure sensors is defective. He said that other than that the bike is in 100% perfect working condition and that everything is working. He stated that he would get the defective sensor repaired at GS Traders and give it a full 50k km service.
I then sent him a message to remind him that he told me on the Saturday that the bike had a 50k km service at BMW.
Shaun then told me that the previous owner told him that it had a 50k km service at BMW and that he would check with BMW. He also stated that it could be the annual service due light that came on.
I asked him if the book isn’t stamped.
Shaun said that he bought the bike from a farmer in Heidelberg and he doesn’t have the book and the spare key with him. He said that the previous owner would send these items to him. He said he will check with BMW and if it were found that the bike didn’t have the service, he would do the 50K km service.
At some point he also said during a call that the motorcycle still has finance outstanding.
After this call I sent Shaun a message questioning how he could have bought the bike and there is still finance outstanding. I also asked if the previous owner shouldn’t settle the bike at the bank.
I was trying to get eyes on the NATIS.
Shaun then said I must let him know when he can call me. I then called Shaun.
Shaun verbally told me that the bike is not a Rebuild (Code 3). He then also told me that he made a mistake about the outstanding finance on the bike and that in fact it had been settled and the previous owner would send the NATIS with the book and spare key.
He also told me that he spoke to BMW and there is nothing to report for that motorcycle.
After this telephone conversation I called BMW to check the VIN no for my own verification. At first the lady at Donfords Stellenbosch couldn’t find any info on their national database for this vin number.
I then asked Shaun who he spoke to at Donfords Stellenbosch
Shaun replied and said Eugene.
I called Dunford’s again and the lady found some info on the local database. There was a quote for R800 odd rand, but she couldn’t tell what for. No other reports that raised alarm bells.
Shaun then sent me a voice message saying that he had just spoken the previous owner (“die oom”) who said that the 40k km as well as the 50k km service was done at a local shop in Heidelberg and he (“die oom”) would also send the invoices for these services as proof since the book hadn’t been stamped for the 40k k m and 50k km services.
I then sent Shaun a voice note via WhatsApp. I stated that I was happy with everything (info provided thus far). I also expressed my concern about not being able to see the NATIs and that I’m worried that I discover the motorcycle is a CODE 3 upon arrival of the NATIS.
Shaun then called me. .
He then told me that I have a six-month guarantee. Shaun’s words to me were “as die natis hier kom end dit is n kode 3 dan gee ek jou geld terug maar ek waarborg jou alles is fine”. I then agreed to buy the bike for the offered trade deal plus difference in way of EFT. He then asked for my full name, ID and address.
Later in the day Shaun sent me a message saying that the bike will be ready in the afternoon the following day and that the previous owner would send the service book, and key with a courier. He also asked when we would want the motorcycle.
I then asked Shaun what he did about the NATIS. I also asked if GS Trades would stamp the book and in which account the money should be paid. I was under the impression that he would take the bike to GS Traders for a service. I also sent him my particulars as asked.
Shaun called me and said he doesn’t work for GS Traders anymore and that the service would be done by RCR Motorcycles in Bellville. I was aware of his employment status of course however I was under the impression from his conversation about the TPS sensors that GS traders would also be doing the service. This I’ll assume was my misunderstanding.
He asked if the bike was being registered onto my name or onto Salomi’s name.
I stated Salomi and sent Salomi’s details.
At 20:28 I received the invoice for the balance of the trade deal and at 20:42 I sent Shaun the proof of payment for the amount of R35000.00

Tuesday 19/11/2019
At 14:00 Shaun sent me a voice note saying that the bike is not yet ready and that we should postpone the exchange to the following day.
I agreed with his request.

Wednesday 20/11/2019
I sent Shaun a message in the morning to let him know that I had brought the BMW 650 to work.
The arrangement was that he would deliver the 1200GS I bought on a trailer and collect the 650 at my place of work in Somerset West. I also sent him a location.
In Shaun’s following voice note he asked to postpone the exchange to the following day since he had to attend his grandfather’s funeral later that day which he had forgotten about. (Sincerely sorry for your loss Shaun)
I told him I would collect the bike.
He then called and offered to take the bike to Stellenbosch and that we could meet at Donfords. I agreed and asked him to let me know when he leaves Bellville as I was close to Donfords.
He then stated that they are still washing the bike (they were washing the previous day as well)
I told him that they are going to wash the paint off and said I’m sure it’s clean already.
Shaun then asked if I could collect the bike in Bellville.
We agreed to meet at RCR Motorcycles at 16:00.
At 16:00 I delivered the BMW F650 GS to Shaun at RCR Motorcycles in Bellville where I then also collected the Blue BMW R1200GS.
When I delivered / collected the bikes Shaun gave me the yellow forms to give to Salomi to fill in so the 650 could be re sold and the 1200GS could be put on her name.

Friday 22/11/2019
Shaun asked if we could bring the signed yellow form to him. Since we were heading in his direction we agreed. He also said that the book, NATIS and spare key had arrived and that he would give it to us.
We met at his house. We gave him the forms and in all the talking both of us forgot about the NATIS, book and spare key.
I sent him a message later saying that we forgot about the NATIS, book and spare key.

Monday 25/11/2019
Shaun said that he is a bit busy but would let me know when the number plates and registration papers are ready.

Wednesday 27/11/2019
Shaun called me to say that he wouldn’t be able to complete the registration as we fall under Kleinmond. He asked for my bank account number so he could refund the R1500 on the road fee.
I sent him the details.
Salomi had a meeting in Durbanville and collected the spare key, service book and NATIS.

Thursday 28/11/2019
Salomi registered the bike in Kleinmond onto her name.

Tuesday 03/12/2019
Salomi asked me on my way to work to have a number plate made for her. She gave me the NATIS. This was the first time I looked at the NATIS. I notice the “Built-up / Opgebou” next to Vehicle Status.
Immediately I sent Shaun a WhatsApp message asking him to explain.
He called me later in the day and stated that he didn’t know and that he took the vehicle status on good faith from the previous owner that said all was well. He also said I must give him that day to find out as much info as possible and that he would get back to me.
I sent him a message in the evening reminding him of his guarantee to me and that he sold me a used two owner motorcycle which now turns out to be a more than three owner Code 3 motorcycle.
He then said he would call me the following day to sort it out.

Wednesday 04/12/2019
Shaun called me in the morning and gave me three options which he then put in writing.

See below letter:

From: Shaun Dickens <b************.**@gmail.com>
 Date: 04 December 2019 at 21:07:58 SAST
 To: f*******@gmail.com
 Subject: R1200 GS

Hallo Fanus,
Na aanleiding van ons gesprek vanoggend is daar basies 3 opsies hoe ons hierdie saak kan hanteer:

1. Jy neem die fiets na Donfords vir 'n 21 point check om seker te maak die fiets is 100% reg en net vir jou te kan gerusstel. Ek gee jou R10,000 terug afslag en ek gee jou 'n guarantee dat ek die fiets weer terug sal koop teen markverwante prys.

2. Jy hou die fiets en ry hom totdat ek vir jou 'n ander fiets kry wat skoon is en jy ry hom.

3. Ek sit dit die laaste opsie omdat ek reeds al jou 650 verkoop het maar as ons nie kan ooreenstem nie gee ek jou geld vir jou terug.

Ek het navorsing gaan doen oor die fiets en volgens die 2de eienaar was die fiets wel in 'n front smash maar was alle parte vervang. Ek is nog besig om verder informasie te kry en alle herstelwerk op swart en wit in die hande te kry. Die oom by wie ek die fiets gekoop het se hy het alreeds 2000km op die fiets gesit en nog nooit probleme gehad nie.

Sou BMW enige iets kleins optel sal ek betaal vir die herstel daarvan. Ek laat jou so gou as moontlik weet sodra ek als op swart en wit het en stuur dit vir jou aan (hopelik binne die volgende 48 uur).
Weereens baie jammer vir hierdie ongerief. Ek het regtig nie geweet hiervan nie en die vorige eienaar het die nooit aan my verklaar nie.

Shaun

Thursday 05/11/2019
In a WhatsApp voice note I said to Shaun that I would like to have my money back since he had already sold the 650 and getting the bike back was no longer an option.
Shaun proceeded to try and obtain info on the motorcycle hoping that I would accept his offer of R10k cash back with a dealer stamp of approval and the offer to re-instate the bike back to “used” (Code 2) on the NATIS through a “connection” of his at the licencing office.
I declined this offer and said to him I wouldn’t be comfortable knowing that it is in fact a previously written off bike. He said he would need to do that anyway for when he takes the bike back in order to sell it again. I said to Shaun what he does with the bike when he takes it back after the refund is up to him, but it doesn’t sit well with me.
He was also adamant to find me another suitable bike. I would take him up on this offer, but he came up with empty promises again which I started seeing as stalling tactics.
We were also pushed for time as we are due to leave for a bike trip on 15 December 2019. So, we would need the refund and was running out of time finding another motorcycle for the trip. It also put a lot of pressure on the situation as we stand to lose the holiday as well.
At 16:09 I gave Shaun a cut off time to find another bike (Friday 12:00) after which I would want my refund.
Shaun agreed.

Friday 06/12/2019
Shaun called to say he had someone interested in the blue bike that doesn’t have a problem with the fact that it’s a Code 3. I was very accommodating and offered to meet the person somewhere if he would like to view the bike. Nothing came of that. By now I als still haven’t received my on the road refund of R1500,00.
I then also noticed that the 40K km service as well as the 50k km service was stamped by RCR motorcycles. I thought this to be very strange as I remember Shaun stating that the previous owner said that although the book isn’t stamped the invoices for these two services will be given to me as proof of the services being done by the local shop.

Saturday 07/12/2019
I visited RCR Motorcycles to see Shaun unannounced.
I took the service book with as well.
I wanted to know where we stand with my refund. Shaun was still in denial about the refund and showed me a picture of a potential replacement motorcycle however, he is yet to find out all the particulars, as well as, whether it is available. I stated that we are “out of time and that the as per my previous requests, I would like to have a refund”.
Shaun said he would give me back R20000,00 and I keep the bike. I asked him if he could guarantee the mileage and he said no. I declined this offer.
Shaun then verbally agreed to the refund and said that I must give him until Wednesday 11/12/2019 for him to “release” the funds and return all my money. His words to me were; “wanneer jy jou foon hoor ping end it wys R80000,00 dan bring jy vir my die bike terug”.
We then agreed that the full amount of R80000,00 will be paid by no later than close of business Wednesday 11/12/2019. Please see below email sent to confirm our agreement. Shaun acknowledged receipt of my email. More on that later.
I then asked him about the on the road refund and he showed me the payment that he transferred of the R1500,00 which I received in my bank account on Monday 09/12/2019. Thank you.

I also confronted him about the service book that had been stamped by RCR Motorcycles for the 40k km service dated 14/03/2012 which I suspect is suspicious. Shaun was very defensive about this and said that if this is the case then he should leave RCR Motorcycles at once. I said to him he should that he should pack his bags. He had obviously forgotten about his previous communications to me. Shaun also asked other staff members about this and if they could identify the handwriting. Everyone was in denial and knew nothing. He asked a lady called Rene. He started by saying that I’m the guy with the Code 3 before asking her if she could pull the record on their system. Her first response was that she has all their historical records followed by a “nee wag”, then proceeded to explain how in 2014 they got a new system and that most of her previous records were lost however she does have some from 2012 still. She then proceeded to explain how a vehicle could become a Code 3 through theft, basically saying that it could have been a stolen recovered vehicle. She was obviously not well informed of Shaun’s research on the motorcycle since he found it was in a front-end crash as per his email to me.
She never looked up the service record on her system.

Salomi also reported that the left-hand heated grip doesn’t come on, the Tyre Pressure Sensors don’t work (front and back) and that the front left fork rubs against something (an oil pipe) when turning the steering a certain amount which I told him about. Initially I saw the TPS sensor to be a minor thing and thought I will replace the batteries when the tyres are due. The additional items raised concerns as we also found the right pannier had a repair on the mounting bracket as well as the top box has a crack underneath the locking mechanism. These now sound like nit picking but they were undisclosed items which started breaking down the trust I initially had in my friend Shaun.

See next post.... :(i
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 17, 2020, 03:20:34 pm
Sunday 08/12/2019
See email sent.

Terug betaling van motorfiets

f*******@gmail.com
Sun, Dec 8,   2019, 8:17 PM
to Shaun

Sonder benadeling van my wetlike regte.

Goeie naand Shaun

Na aanleiding van ons gesprek op Saterdag 7 Desember 2019 tydens my besoek by RCR Motorcycles en met betrekking tot jou epos aan my gedateer 04 Desember 2019 is die volgende van toepassing soos mondelings ook ooreengekom.

Aangesien die “silver 1200gs” nog nie beskikbaar is nie, julle geen besonderhede oor dit het nie, daar nie vir ons ń geskikde vervangings motorfiets teen dieselfde bedrag vanaf jou is nie en omdat ek nie gemaklik is met die gebruik van die blou kode 3 motorfiets nie (vin nr: WB10303008ZU18047 wat aan aan my verkoop is as ń “gebruikte” motorfiets wat eintlik ń kode 3 of “herbou” is).

Met die epos wil ek dus jou aanbod aan my aanvaar en in werking stel om my ten volle terug te betaal teen Woensdag 11 Desember 2019 waar volgens ek die motorfiets (vin nr WB10303008ZU18047) in persoon aan jou sal terug versorg.

Let wel dat sou daar nie ń geldige betalings verwysing teen sluite van besigheid op Woensdag 17:00, 11 Desember 2019 van R80000,00 vir die terug betaling van die voorgenoemde motorfiets deur my ontvang is nie, los dit my geen aander keuse om reg stappe te neem om die uitstaande geld te bekom nie.

Die bedrag van R80000,00 kan in dieselfde rekening betaal word waarin jy die “on the road” terug betaling betaal het maar vir gerief, sien relevante bank besonderhede onder aan:

Account details
Bank name: *******
Branch name: ***********
Branch code: *1*
Account holder: MR F LE ROUX
Account number: 2* *** *** 1
Account type: ********
Fanus Le Roux
**********
Sent from my iPhone

Monday 09/12/2019
I asked Shaun at 20:38 via WhatsApp if he received my email from Sunday.
He responded and said he will check and get back to me.
For his convenience I re-sent it via email as well as copied and pasted the content thereof into a WhatsApp message and sent it through WhatsApp.
On the road fee refund of R1500,00 received

Tuesday 11/12/2019
Shaun confirmed my WhatsApp from yesterday by saying “Dankie ek he dit so”
He also asked if he could collect the bike to put it back on for sale.
Shaun also informed me that he is going to re-advertise the bike for R65000,00
I phoned Shaun to ask him if I could expect to get my money tomorrow to which he replied “Nee Fanus”
Shaun received an offer for the bike for R40k which he declined. The offer was based on 50% full retail value at the time as this is all the potential purchaser would be able to insure it for. Shaun declined by stating that he is not going to take a R40k knock and would rather keep the bike and ride it himself.

I told Shaun that he could expect legal proceedings to be put in motion starting Thursday morning 12/12/2019.
I also informed him that I would be sharing my experience of doing business with him on social media should he not honour his agreement with me. He didn’t like this at all.

Wednesday 12/12/2019
No money received.

Thursday 13/12/2019
I went to see a Lawyer and filed for a civil case against Shaun Dickens as well as RCR motorcycles for the suspicious service stamp in the book.
This had no effect other than Shaun phoning me asking me a copy of the stamps in the service book which I refused to give him. I also said to Shaun that any communication pertaining to this motorcycle should from now on go via the Lawyer.

Monday 23/12/2019
I sent Shaun images of popular social media platforms to indicate my intention to him.
He responded by saying he will call me a bit later. I said it’s not necessary and that he just needs to pay back my money.

Monday 13/01/2020
Whatsapp from Shaun with season greetings. He told me he has a few people wanting to look at the Blue Bike and three guys who are really interested and that will have to put the bike on “his” floor because that is the only way that he would be able to pay me back my money. He stated that had the bike been on “the floor”, it would have been sold already. He said I should let him know because the guys want to come and have a look.
I didn’t respond at all due to my pending lawyer meeting tomorrow. I was also previously advised by the lawyer to not give him the bike without a full refund. These are also my sentiments as by now I have no trust in Shaun anymore. I’m concerned that he might sell the bike and fly a kite again on another deal.

Tuesday 14/01/2020
I saw the lawyer however at this stage I cannot publicly discuss the content of our meeting.
Having said that we are both in agreement that Shaun cannot take the bike on consignment to re-sell. In addition, the guarantee was to return “my” money and to sell the bike and then refund me.

I saw a post on “Proudly Meerkat” Facebook group from “Jumpers Place Willowmore” about a motorcycle that was given to Shaun to sell on consignment. This confirms that I cannot entrust the motorcycle to Shaun, even if I hang to the NaTIS until I receive my full refund.
After reading Jumpers Place Willomore’s post I contacted Shaun to congratulate him on his newfound fame. I also expressed my intention to publish our situation on Social Media.

He once again said that he really didn’t know about the motorcycle’s status. He asked me not to publish on social media and that he has a few people interested in the bike and that we can sort it out. He also said that yesterday there were two people who wanted to look at the bike.
He said me going to social media would completely ruin his business.
The following conversation took place.

Shaun: He has someone that is very interested in the bike @ R70k and he would then pay me R10K. HE said the person is from George and is coming to CT over the weekend and that he would have to view the bike by me if I don’t want to leave it with him.

Me: leaving the bike with him is not an option. The person is welcome to view the bike and if does take it, he would only get the bike from me once I received the difference from Shaun. I mentioned that after his newfound social media fame he might not be selling bike for much longer. I once again expressed my intent to take our matter to social media.

Shaun: I should do what I must do and that he also spoke to his lawyer. He said he gave me options and I don’t want to so we shall see.

Me: I accepted his offer to refund me but have not yet received any payment. And that is why he hasn’t got the bike back yet.

Shaun: Because he doesn’t have the money right now and he really didn’t know about the bikes status otherwise he wouldn’t have sold it me.
Therefore, he is getting buyers and the buyers can pay the money directly to me. He gives them my number and he already have two potential buyers whom he gave my number to and he told them everything about the bike.
Therefore, he’s asking me to be patient. The bike will sell and even if it sells for R65k he will give me the R15k balance.

Me: You told me the bike is perfect and not a Kode 3. Hence your guarantee. The best offer so far on the bike is R51075.00.
Shaun received an offer for R51075.00. The potential buyer contacted me and told me that Shaun had refused his offer by stating he is not going to take a R30k knock and that he would rather keep the bike and ride it himself.

Shaun: You and I both know the bike is worth more. I must get the bike to Dunford’s for a 21-point test. If I arrange it and pay for it can pls take the bike through for me because I have a buyer at R70k. The guy offering R51k is from Hermanus with the 660 Tenere. Another guy is going to phone you…Roelof

Me: I will take the bike to Donfords. The bike is worth what you can insure it for.

Shaun: Can insure it for R50-R55k for the bike alone and for the panniers and top box another R10k so R65k is acceptable.

Me: Top box and right pannier box is broken. R10k?
On his previous post I also responded:

“Shaun: I should do what I must do and that he also spoke to his lawyer. He said he gave me options and I don’t want to so we shall see.”

Me: You’d be better of spending your money to repay ALL your debt. You’d get much further in your situation.

Tuesday 14/01/2020
A gentleman (Dual on Wilddog Forum) who’d been in contact with Shaun came to have a look at the bike today.
This was the same person that offered Shaun R51k for the bike.

He took the bike to Donfords Stellenbosch for a second opinion. According to Donfords the bike is worth R35k. This was based on the fact that a quick look around the bike revealed R20k’s worth of repairs. This excludes if they find something with a proper inspection. Dual withdrew his offer and walked away from the purchase. (Good decision!!)

This was when I decided that it would be against my moral and ethical values to sell the bike (even on Shaun’s behalf) knowing what I know about the motorcycle. He has now refused an offer for R40K as well as from Dual for R51k (who has also withdrawn). Again, Shaun’s reasoning is that he is not going to take a R30k knock and would rather keep the bike (he doesn’t own) to himself.
To me, if Shaun wants to fix this, he would take what he could get for the bike and make plan with the difference.
That would be the honorable thing to do.
However, his only real option is to give me the refund and take the bike back as stated in his letter to me after which he can do with the bike as he sees fit.

The above was also communicated to Shaun.
Shaun’s response to this was that he didn’t want the bike at Donfords for a valuation but that he wants a report from them stating what is wrong with the bike because he has a prospect who wants to purchase the bike and would like the report. He also stated that he is trying to sell the bike to be able to return my money quickly otherwise I will have to wait till the end of the month.

I explicitly stated that he can do with the bike what he wants after I’ve received the refund and that I’m not selling the bike to anyone. I also stated that he is the only person that believes the bike is worth what he thinks it is.
Also, on his previous comment I responded that the Dual took the bike to Donfords not for his (Shaun’s) sake but for his own piece of mind.
I agreed to take the bike to Donfords for Shaun once he has booked the bike in and paid for the inspection and once again stated that I’m not selling the bike.

Shaun’s response to this was that I’m not selling the bike on his behalf. He proceeded to explain that the prospect from George has been fully informed of the situation and that he just wants to see a report from Donfors after which they can negotiate on price. He said he would make the appointment and pay for the inspection at Donfords after which he will let me know so I can take the bike to them. The report will then be sent to the person in George who said he will pay R65-R70k. The money will be paid into my account and Shaun would pay the difference.
(I’m unable to track the named person down in order to ask permission to mention his name)
Shaun then said that Donfords can only do the inspection on the 28th. He then asked me if I’d take the bike to GS traders as they are able to help him in the next few days. He offered to give me a loan bike whilst GS Traders have the bike and that he need the report ASAP in order to give it to this guy so he can sort out this situation.

I explained to Shaun that I don’t agree with him saying that I’m not selling the bike on his behalf. IT goes against my grain to sell the bike to anyone at all knowing what I know of the bike (which isn’t much actually).
My concern is buyers remorse in which case even if my name gets mentioned, it makes me involved in Shaun’s dealing.
I said to Shaun that he would need to tell the prospect that he will need to sign for an affidavit that I will give him declaring all my knowledge of the bike as well as a letter of understanding that indemnifies me of any blame or responsibility towards Shaun, BM Motorcycles and RCR Motorcycles.
I offered to make myself available to see the person from George between 7:00 & 10:00 am on Saturday 18 Jan 2020. I also suggested that the prospect should maybe first contact me and have a conversation with me prior to anything as this might also save all of us a lot of effort.
Shaun responded with a “thumbs up” emoji.

And this is where we are now. Other than Dual I’ve not had a missed call or a received call from anyone interested in the bike that was sent by Shaun.
Shaun seems to want to pass blame for the bike not being sold yet. It appears that this is his excuse for not giving me a refund thus far.
I simply do not have the trust in Shaun anymore to leave the bike at RCR motorcycles with him. Nor was it the agreement that should the papers come, and something is wrong that he would first sell the bike before giving me my money back.

Summary of Current Situation:

Trust
I’ve lost all trust in Shaun and for this reason I don’t want to leave the bike with him to sell in order to return my money.

Perceived vs Actual Value
Shaun has a perceived value of the vehicle and is not wanting to admit that the motorcycle is:
1) Worth what someone is willing to pay for it (given all the information)
2) What the insurance is willing to insure it for. (this I found out is normally 50% of trade value)

Vested Interest
The two offers Shaun refused to indicate he only has his own interests at heart with no regard to my circumstances, the situation or his future as a motorcycle trader.

Selling directly vs refund and returning the bike – ethics, morally
I’m not comfortable selling the bike on his behalf or at all. I don’t know enough about the bike and am therefore not able to disclose all information fully. E.g. is the mileage accurate….

Ethically and morally I cannot be part of selling an item I know for a fact is worth less than what Shaun is trying to sell it for. I would then become an accomplice to Shaun. There is no way I could guide another person into this vehicle to lighten my own burden.
The offer was to refund not to sell to get money to refund. If you cannot afford it don’t offer it. If you cannot offer it then say so and say why. This information allows a prospect the opportunity to make an informed decision.

Admission of guilt
Prior to buying the motorcycle a person sent me a message saying that this person wouldn’t have any dealings with Shaun and that I should proceed with caution.

I ‘m normally very thorough and would never have even considered buying any vehicle without seeing at least the NaTIS.
Despite this, I proceeded with the purchase, so I have my share in this situation.

I can honestly say however, had Shaun told me from day one that the “Oom” in Heidelberg said all is well but he cannot confirm anything until he has seen the NaTIS, I would’ve waited until we could lay eyes on the NaTIS before proceeding with the purchase.
Shaun keeps apologizing to me and that he really didn’t know about the bike’s status.

My question is, if you didn’t know what the actual vehicle status was, why didn’t you just say, “I don’t know”?
I cannot help but feel that Shaun abused a trust for the sake of a sale.

Conclusion
Despite no current resolve between Shaun and I re the refund for the motorcycle and this being an ongoing matter, I would like to put the following as a conclusion to the situation.

Lessons Learnt

I see this writing as an opportunity for Shaun Dickens to rite what is wrong.
It’s never too late.
If one can be humble, admit a mistake, learn from it and choose to do the right thing, there is always room for forgiveness and a new beginning.

Shaun Dickens, this is an opportunity for you right the wrong……. ;)
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kortbroek on January 17, 2020, 04:01:17 pm
 :o Fecking hell.

This and @Die Malletjie  's story is just a bloody joke. F*ck this asshole. If I was you, sue him for the R80k and get it done with. If ruled in your favour (which it should be) they will attach whatever they need to to pay you.
Good on you for treading careful now and keeping your side clean, and good on you for not keeping this a secret  :thumleft:

I hope you are able to resolve this  >:(
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Clockwork Orange on January 17, 2020, 04:08:53 pm
Not a good week for Shaun then :o :o
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Black_Hawk on January 17, 2020, 04:21:22 pm
I've read your whole story and all that I can say is this is shocking and people like Shaun is disgusting  >:(

I hope that you will get your money back.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Vis Arend on January 17, 2020, 04:40:43 pm
Nee flippen hel, vanwaar is die man?  Kry 'n mens werklik sulke skelms?  Hoe slaap daai man in die aand?  Gemors vertel ek jou.   :deal:

Sterkte en hoop als draai goed uit vir jou en jou vrou.   :thumleft:  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Knucklhead on January 17, 2020, 04:41:38 pm
bliksem, what a D@@s  :eek7:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 17, 2020, 04:46:01 pm
Gentlemen , what we have here is a cluster fuck...

I trust you will eventually have this resolved to your satisfaction, good luck.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: dual on January 17, 2020, 04:52:31 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/zPw87DB/007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9yjwVS1)

Mooi fiets met baie foute, bly ek het weggestap  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Wolzak on January 17, 2020, 05:36:22 pm
 :sip: Son of a Bitch, WTF.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Gene on January 17, 2020, 06:09:43 pm
N mens is nooit te oud om te leer nie, of hoe, die opgewondenheid van n lekker baaik ai, dan aanvaar mens alles as vanselfsprekend.
Sterkte daar, ek hoop jy kry jou geld terug en Shaun behou sy goeie reputasie.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Ian in Great Brak River on January 17, 2020, 10:53:53 pm
Bliksem ... I am super impressed you got all that correspondence down in sequence too. One lives and learns.

All the best.

  >:(
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Operator on January 17, 2020, 11:22:27 pm
These kind of things happens on a daily basis in the industry.
Second hand bike sales are a minefield
Innocent people gets taken for a ride, cause they don't know any better
The ones that loose the money are usually the ones that can't afford too loose any of it at all


Just when you thought you've seen it all, someone surprise you with new bullshit.........

I advise clients regularly about deals and possible pitfalls.............. eg, code 3 status etc
Not so uncommon as one would think/expect

Through years I advised clients to walk away from deals and was even threatened with bodily harm because of canceled deals caused by my input.
Was told by sales people to stick to the insurance and let them do "business"


Fanus it took a lot of courage to tell your story, but it was the right thing to do.
The facts don't lie. You can sugarcoat it with bullshit but it will still be the facts.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 18, 2020, 12:06:37 am
Is Shaun the owner of the bike shop, or just a sales person?
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 18, 2020, 12:25:54 am
Is Shaun the owner of the bike shop, or just a sales person?

I believe he trades as an independent at their facility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 18, 2020, 06:56:31 am
Nee man. ek hoop hier is `n goeie uitweg.
Of jy nou ingeloop word deur `n kennis/vriend of `n wildvreemde ou, dit bly `n skop in die eiers.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: JustBendIt on January 18, 2020, 07:43:51 am
Thank you for documenting and publishing your story here ... hopefully it gets read over and over and reached far and wide and eventually forces another dishonest dealer out of the industry

I am a used vehicle dealer - selling mostly cars but also do some bikes (mostly my own) - as Operator has stated above these kind of dodgy deals happen on a daily basis ...you won't believe the amount of skelms I have come across selling all kinds of patched up shit and blatantly lying through their teeth just to make a quick buck ... in my opinion it is not only fraud but theft too ... theft of someone else's hard earned money and most importantly, especially in this case, theft of trust ... one of a human being's most sacred "investments" in another

In short my advice is...Buyer beware ...triple check everything and make sure all paperwork is in order before handing over any money - especially with bikes
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Altie7deLaan on January 18, 2020, 08:20:12 am
Valuable advice from Justin right there.
The golden rule mostly is, if a deal sound too good to be true, it usually is.
If you are not mechanically affluent, take a buddy along that is. You can even offer to pay to have a vehicle checked out by a 3rd party, like AA?
My biggest gripe with the skelms in our world, is that when things get too hot, they pop up somewhere else (usually in the same sector) and continue their bullshit.

I once nearly made a logic mistake in selling/buying a car, and Enzo gave me insight and advice and saved me.
At the same time, Enzo baie dankie.
Not only skelms out there, but also straight shooting warriors like Enzo.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: the_BOBNOB on January 18, 2020, 09:14:15 am
Is Shaun the owner of the bike shop, or just a sales person?

I believe he trades as an independent at their facility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pretty sure that is just a RCR trick to try and buypass Consumer Protection Act.

What business will have a dodgy guy operating from there premises so long?

Also the fact that they stamped the book shows that they are involved.

RCR is as dodgy as they come. I won't spend any money there other than something on the shelve.

Wonder how much he paid the oomie for the bike?

As a 2nd hand car dealer they will not sell or do anything without knowing everything. Really don't believe he would not have known it is Code 3
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Offside on January 18, 2020, 09:32:08 am
It takes all types.
I have bought 3 bikes on this forum over the years.
All the bikes were unseen from members I dont know.
No problems at all, just lucky I guess.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Operator on January 18, 2020, 09:32:35 am
It would be interesting to hear the Oomie's version of the story.......

Clearly the Oomie took Shaun for a ride with code 3 bike , but nowhere in this story do I hear about Shaun taking action against the "Oomie"  :patch:
This is in itself is weird, for a "professional" to buy in a code 3 bike but do nothing against the seller, but rather try to sell the bike on to unsuspecting new buyers

Why don't Shaun name and shame the Oomie?   :pot:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Andre E on January 18, 2020, 10:01:54 am
It would be interesting to hear the Oomie's version of the story.......

Clearly the Oomie took Shaun for a ride with code 3 bike, but nowhere in this story do I hear about Shaun taking action against the "Oomie"  :patch:
This is in itself is weird, for a "professional to buy in code 3 bike but do nothing against the seller, but rather try to sell the bike on to unsuspecting new buyers

Why don't Shaun name and shame the Oomie?   :pot:
Because Shaun bought a very cheap code 3 and sold it on for big profit.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: DirtyHarry on January 18, 2020, 02:13:10 pm
I am very sorry to hear about your bike troubles.
Is this the bike you are talking about?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2532026443738342/
Title: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 18, 2020, 02:16:09 pm
I am very sorry to hear about your bike troubles.
Is this the bike you are talking about?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2532026443738342/

Thank you DirtyHarry

That is the one yes. Although the bike is with me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: dual on January 18, 2020, 02:25:21 pm
I wonder if there ever was 'n "oomie"
Seems he knows a lot of buyers from George, wonder if it's George the town or just another person named George?

I wonder if there's a BMW mechanic in Heidelberg that can service BMW's so good that the dealer can put two stamps in service book for it

Maybe another smelling rat
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on January 18, 2020, 02:38:29 pm
I am very sorry to hear about your bike troubles.
Is this the bike you are talking about?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2532026443738342/

Thank you DirtyHarry

That is the one yes. Although the bike is with me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And even in that advertisement he doesn’t disclose that it’s a Code 3!  What a chop. 

Hoop jy kom reg Rouxman.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: luv2ride on January 18, 2020, 04:00:01 pm
Not good, hope it gets sorted
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 18, 2020, 11:03:20 pm
RCR motorcycles??

Who is this gang?

I would not even buy anything off the shelf from these type of business people.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Maverick on January 19, 2020, 10:18:39 am
@Rouxman I know you for many years and if ever there was a straight shooter and honest guy who would sell something perfect rather at a loss to accommodate someone else it would be you.

Pity you have to be taken for a ride on your good nature and this guy is not a friend end of story. You are not the first and judging by other stories won’t be the last. Get your money back by all means possible and move away from this toxic situation/person as quick as possible.

As ek kan help in enige way ou pel laat weet
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 19, 2020, 12:05:54 pm
SA is te klein vir die tipe besigheid.

Ek kan nie sien dat hy nog baie lank in die game gaan wees nie.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Operator on January 19, 2020, 03:20:19 pm
SA is te klein vir die tipe besigheid.

Ek kan nie sien dat hy nog baie lank in die game gaan wees nie.

Pierre............die joke is dat mense nie hulle huiswerk doen nie.  Hulle is te donners lui om selfs net 'n Google search te doen.
Hulle sien advertensie op hul favourite Facebook groepie en weet nie van beter nie en gaan koop  die bike blind.

Ek en jy is wake-up genoeg maar die volgende ou is naief en dink nie verder nie, en val vir die sales talk ( aka as sales bullshit) en koop
omdat die ou so 'n "nice guy" is.
As jy naief is, dan gaan jy in "trap" inloop en jou gat sien en geld verloor

Mense is skaam om te erken dat hulle ge"bullshit" was  en hou hul monde.  Dit is soortgelyk aan verkragtings. As die victims hul
monde hou, dra hulle by dat daar nog slagoffers gaan wees.  Die verskil is dat die mense jou bankrekening "rape"
Mense moet praat en die inligting deel. Dis tot voordeel van almal.

Maak die "gene pool" skoon.  :deal:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 19, 2020, 08:12:36 pm
SA is te klein vir die tipe besigheid.

Ek kan nie sien dat hy nog baie lank in die game gaan wees nie.

Pierre............die joke is dat mense nie hulle huiswerk doen nie.  Hulle is te donners lui om selfs net 'n Google search te doen.
Hulle sien advertensie op hul favourite Facebook groepie en weet nie van beter nie en gaan koop  die bike blind.

Ek en jy is wake-up genoeg maar die volgende ou is naief en dink nie verder nie, en val vir die sales talk ( aka as sales bullshit) en koop
omdat die ou so 'n "nice guy" is.
As jy naief is, dan gaan jy in "trap" inloop en jou gat sien en geld verloor

Mense is skaam om te erken dat hulle ge"bullshit" was  en hou hul monde.  Dit is soortgelyk aan verkragtings. As die victims hul
monde hou, dra hulle by dat daar nog slagoffers gaan wees.  Die verskil is dat die mense jou bankrekening "rape"
Mense moet praat en die inligting deel. Dis tot voordeel van almal.

Maak die "gene pool" skoon.  :deal:

En hoop jy eindig nie op met n lee swembad nie. :eek7:  Maar jy is reg, vlek hierdie goed oop.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Jaakmh on January 19, 2020, 08:24:13 pm
Baie Sterkte @Rouxman. Hoop die nonsens is gou uitgesort en jy kry al jou geld sommer gou terug!
Is die Shaun persoon op díe forum?
As Shaun enige self respek gehad het sou die storie al klaar gewees het.

Was die “ou” van George Saterdag by jou?
Title: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 19, 2020, 08:52:18 pm
Goeie naand almal,

Baie dankie vir die sentimente en ondersteuning.

Ek sal nou maar sien wat die week gaan op lewer. Dis nou ń bietjie van ń “catch 22”.

Ek is nie bereid om die fiets te verkoop nie. Ek myslef sal nie meer as R30-35k betaal weetende wat ek nou weet maar ook net as ek bereid is om ń “punt” te vat met die gedagte dat ek n kaans staan dat dit ń dud is en dalk die bike sal moet verkoop as parte as dit flop.

Shaun hoop op die verkoop van die fiets om my geld terug te gee en ek sê “not on my watch”.

So sy enigste opsie is ń refund. Daarna kan hy maak wat hy wil. Ek hoop net dat die fiets teen daai tyd al genoeg populariteid bereik het dat dit maar eerder as parte verkoop word.

Dat ek actually my geld gaan terug kry dink ek is wishfull thinking.

Oor die laaste 15jaar het ek nou al so 16/17 bikes gehad. Party nuut, ander gebruik. Ek is redelik vertroud met die fietse en diens ook my ouer bikes self. Ek is vêr van ń master mechanic af maar is gemaklik met die spanners.

Bonop dit vertrou ek mense moeilik.

Met die fiets was dit die een keer wat ek besluit het om iemand meer te vertrou as gewoonlik.

Ek wou glad nie ja sê sonder om die NaTIS te sien nie maar toe Shaun vir my sê dat hy my ń geld terug waarborg gee, daar is ń winkel, hy het gemeng met dieselfde groepe as ek en met die gedagte dat hy ń vriend is, het ek gedink dat daar nie ń manier is dat hy my sal bevark nie.

As hy maar net gesê het nadat ek hom ten minste twee keer gevra het of die NaTIS wys of dit ń kode 3 is, “dat hy nie eintlik weet nie want hy het dit nog nie gesien nie”, was dit ń hele ander storie.

Die beste wat ek nou voor kan hoop is bewus making dat mense uit dit leer en ook lig loop met Shaun.

Die George ou het nog glad nie in kontak gekom met my nie.

Ek hou jul op hoogte.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2532026443738342/
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 19, 2020, 11:41:33 pm
Dis n moeiliek een.

Ek glo nie hy het meer die geld om n refund te doen nie..
Om die sale van die fiets te briek, beteken dat jy jou geld terug, ook briek.

Ek verstaan wat jy bedoel, deur nie die fiets aan iemand anders te wil verkoop nie. Jou morele waardes is reg.

Maar daai morele waardes gaan jou R80 000 kos.

Catch 22 soos jy se.

Ai man, sterkte  8) :thumleft:

Hy het egter nooit gese, ek sal jou refund, sodra ek eers die fiets weer n keer verkoop het nie! So sy mielie. As dit ek was, en hy se bring die bike, ek gee jou geld op die spot terug, het ek dit gedoen. Dan gee ek nie om wat hy verder met die bike doen, of wie hom weer koop nie. Maar nes jy, moet hy my ook nie betrek by die verkoop nie, want soos jy gese het, dan word jy deel vd scam/scheme.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Vis Arend on January 20, 2020, 05:13:33 am
Sterkte Roux-man.   :thumleft:

Ek het die man gekontak via "messenger" op marketplace en gevra in watter toestand die fiets is.  Hy het teruggekom en soek my tel nr om te praat oor die fiets. 
Ek wil egter nie my nr gee nie, wetende ek gaan hom k@k gee wanneer hy my kontak en dit gaan moontlik die verkoop van die bike belemmer, dit gaan terselfde tyd jou kanse om jou geld terug te kry, belemmer.    Soos jy se, 'n catch 22 situasie.   :patch:

Ek kan nog steeds nie glo die man doen dit aan sy "vriend" nie.   :eek7: :eek7: :eek7:   
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: TeeJay on January 20, 2020, 05:38:49 am
Jammer om hiervan te hoor. Ja/nee wragtig - dat jou vriend so iets an jou kan doen (maar ek het ook al sulke "vriende" gehad). Ek neem aan julle het nie die afgelope naweek saam gebraai nie  :imaposer: - ek spot maar dit is 'n ernstige saak.

Wat se jou regspersoon? Belemmer dit nie jou saak dat jy besit van die fiets behou nie? Ek praat nou van 'n regsperspektief - ek meen - jy het die fiets gekoop, daarvoor betaal, dit is in jou naam geregistreer en jy het die fiets by jou. So al wat jy het is wat hy vir jou gese het - dis goed dat jy iets in skrif het. Sal dit nie beter wees om iets op skrif op te stel en die fiets by hulle gaan aflewer en hom daardie dokument laat teken nie? As jou regspersoon 'n dokument kan opstel wat se jy besorg die fiets terug aan hulle omdat x.y.z ens en hy teken daarvoor en dat hy x dae het om jou geld terug te betaal - dan is die onus op hom om die saak reg te stel. As jy die fiets behou dan is dit moeiliker want dit beteken (in my kop in elk geval) dat dit vir jou aanvaarbaar is. Hy hoef eintlik niks te doen nie want al wat jy het is wat hy vir jou gese het - maar jy is gelukkig om die fiets te behou.

Ek is nie 'n regspersoon nie - ek dink maar net harduit  :imaposer:

Sterkte - ek hoop jy kry jou geld terug. Ek het maar R20 000 so 15 jaar terug aan 'n sogenaamde "vriend" verloor - maar R80 000 - ai.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: WNaude on January 20, 2020, 08:28:00 am
Ek sien ivm die vorige situasie van die Willowmore tebakel probeer hy homself nog verdedig, in die proses het hy net vir hom 'n groter gat gegrou. die dat hy die comments afgeskakel het op facebook.

Jammer om van jou situasie te hoor. Ek dink in die geval as jy enige geld gaan terugkry sal dit 'n wen wees.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Edgar on January 20, 2020, 09:18:11 am
My voorstel tot hierdie probleem is dat jy die motorfiets aan my verkoop vir R35 en dat jy Shaun dagvaar vir die uitstaande verskil.  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 09:21:23 am
Jammer om hiervan te hoor. Ja/nee wragtig - dat jou vriend so iets an jou kan doen (maar ek het ook al sulke "vriende" gehad). Ek neem aan julle het nie die afgelope naweek saam gebraai nie  :imaposer: - ek spot maar dit is 'n ernstige saak.

Wat se jou regspersoon?
Hou die fiets. Dis op die stadium my vrou se einendom

Belemmer dit nie jou saak dat jy besit van die fiets behou nie?
Ek praat nou van 'n regsperspektief - ek meen - jy het die fiets gekoop, daarvoor betaal, dit is in jou naam geregistreer en jy het die fiets by jou. So al wat jy het is wat hy vir jou gese het - dis goed dat jy iets in skrif het.
Nie regtig nie want sy geskrewe ooreenkoms is dat hy my geld sal terug versorg en nie dat hy eers die fiets moet verkoop nie.

 Sal dit nie beter wees om iets op skrif op te stel en die fiets by hulle gaan aflewer en hom daardie dokument laat teken nie? As jou regspersoon 'n dokument kan opstel wat se jy besorg die fiets terug aan hulle omdat x.y.z ens en hy teken daarvoor en dat hy x dae het om jou geld terug te betaal - dan is die onus op hom om die saak reg te stel.
Ek kan maar ek  vermoed dan gaan ek een geskil met n ander verruil. SIen @JumpersPlaceWIllomore se post.

As jy die fiets behou dan is dit moeiliker want dit beteken (in my kop in elk geval) dat dit vir jou aanvaarbaar is.
Glad nie. My aanvaarding vir sy geld terug aanbod was in skrif en hy het dit bevestig. Dan is daar ook my beginsels en etiese waardes. As ek die fiets oorhandig verskuif ek net di las op iemand anders.

Hy hoef eintlik niks te doen nie want al wat jy het is wat hy vir jou gese het - maar jy is gelukkig om die fiets te behou.
Dit is die punt van die bewusmakings veldtog. Dis moontlik al wat ek het. Kom hy sy ooreenkoms na, dan het hy dit reg gemaak. Alhoewel, nie in die oorspronklike ooreengekome tydperk nie maar tegnies is my saak dan afgehandel en ek sal dit dan so raporteer. Dis sy beste opsie op die stadium.

Ek is nie 'n regspersoon nie - ek dink maar net harduit  :imaposer:

Sterkte - ek hoop jy kry jou geld terug. Ek het maar R20 000 so 15 jaar terug aan 'n sogenaamde "vriend" verloor - maar R80 000 - ai.
Sjoe, baie jammer om van jou verlies te hoor TeeJay. Dis maar n gemors maar ook n les.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Dux on January 20, 2020, 09:24:52 am
The Consumer Protection Act states that a seller of anything has to inform the buyer of any defects or past damage , so in this case the seller was legally obliged to inform the buyer that vehicle was a code 3 . In this case seller has no recourse at all .
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on January 20, 2020, 10:00:53 am
That was my thinking as well, the CPA should come into play not so?

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Edgar on January 20, 2020, 10:16:56 am
That was my thinking as well, the CPA should come into play not so?

If the guy is really independent from CRC and working for himself then will the CPA still be applicable? Into who's bank account was the purchase price for the bike deposited? CRC or Shaun? 
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 10:21:08 am
That was my thinking as well, the CPA should come into play not so?

If the guy is really independent from CRC and working for himself then will the CPA still be applicable? Into who's bank account was the purchase price for the bike deposited? CRC or Shaun?

“BM Motorcycles”


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Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 10:23:13 am
That was my thinking as well, the CPA should come into play not so?

If the guy is really independent from CRC and working for himself then will the CPA still be applicable? Into who's bank account was the purchase price for the bike deposited? CRC or Shaun?

“BM Motorcycles”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 20, 2020, 10:27:30 am
Friend of mine bought a Code 3 from GS Traders in Cape Town a while ago without knowing.

When I saw their name mentioned here a few times, I knew something is cooking.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 10:33:14 am
Friend of mine bought a Code 3 from GS Traders in Cape Town a while ago without knowing.

When I saw their name mentioned here a few times, I knew something is cooking.

GS traders or RCR Motorcycles?


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Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 20, 2020, 10:41:26 am
Friend of mine bought a Code 3 from GS Traders in Cape Town a while ago without knowing.

When I saw their name mentioned here a few times, I knew something is cooking.

GS traders or RCR Motorcycles?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GS Traders.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Edgar on January 20, 2020, 10:48:56 am
That was my thinking as well, the CPA should come into play not so?

If the guy is really independent from CRC and working for himself then will the CPA still be applicable? Into who's bank account was the purchase price for the bike deposited? CRC or Shaun?

“BM Motorcycles”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In that case the CPA should be applicable. Good luck and hope you get sorted.  :thumleft:

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 20, 2020, 10:51:53 am
Quote
  Shaun then left me a voice message stating that the service light had come on and that one of the tyre pressure sensors is defective. He said that other than that the bike is in 100% perfect working condition and that everything is working. He stated that he would get the defective sensor repaired at GS Traders and give it a full 50k km service.
I then sent him a message to remind him that he told me on the Saturday that the bike had a 50k km service at BMW.                         

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 10:56:43 am
Quote
  Shaun then left me a voice message stating that the service light had come on and that one of the tyre pressure sensors is defective. He said that other than that the bike is in 100% perfect working condition and that everything is working. He stated that he would get the defective sensor repaired at GS Traders and give it a full 50k km service.
I then sent him a message to remind him that he told me on the Saturday that the bike had a 50k km service at BMW.                         

 :thumleft:

I never received a receipt for the repair from Shaun, I also didn’t ask for one.



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Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 20, 2020, 11:00:06 am
Quote
  Shaun then left me a voice message stating that the service light had come on and that one of the tyre pressure sensors is defective. He said that other than that the bike is in 100% perfect working condition and that everything is working. He stated that he would get the defective sensor repaired at GS Traders and give it a full 50k km service.
I then sent him a message to remind him that he told me on the Saturday that the bike had a 50k km service at BMW.                         

 :thumleft:

I never received a receipt for the repair from Shaun, I also didn’t ask for one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know, just saying, the code 3 guy, is talking about the other code 3 guy  :imaposer:
He is moving in code 3 circles  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Matewis on January 20, 2020, 11:04:00 am
Friend of mine bought a Code 3 from GS Traders in Cape Town a while ago without knowing.

When I saw their name mentioned here a few times, I knew something is cooking.

Ek gaan hierdie dophou. Gaan nie iets negatief se oor een van die 2 "handelaars" nie maar het al na 'n 1200 gaan kyk way back en GS Traders se manne het hom gekoop op die ou einde. Dallk gekoop vir parte so gaan nie my mond uitspoel nie.

@Rouxman Ek hoop jy kom reg Fanus. Los nou maar die 1200's en hou by die 1150. Minder k@k en drama!
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: bronzy on January 20, 2020, 12:30:02 pm
The Consumer Protection Act states that a seller of anything has to inform the buyer of any defects or past damage , so in this case the seller was legally obliged to inform the buyer that vehicle was a code 3 . In this case seller has no recourse at all .
The CPA will not help if this is a private deal or bought from an Auction house
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: bronzy on January 20, 2020, 12:42:58 pm
When buying cars ,must be very careful even if you have the papers,the car can be a clone
Do as much homework as you can and never pay without the Natis document in your hand
yellow form means shit as the dealer can sign on your behalf  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Bottelboer on January 20, 2020, 12:46:33 pm
Not nice reading this, now you sitting with the dud, as said on the Willomore thread, get an proper proposal,then an OTP signed with the necessary supporting documents, get an F&I in on the deal also, even private deals as far I will go. Get an used appraisal from the seller and check it with him before you hand over the money, then sign the contract. Sorry Rouxman I know it was at that time a friend selling you the bike, strongs boet!
 
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kuifie on January 20, 2020, 12:56:58 pm
Leier van die KGB in die 80's het gesê "We Trust but verify"
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Kaboef on January 20, 2020, 01:08:41 pm
When buying cars ,must be very careful even if you have the papers,the car can be a clone


As long as it's not a Land Rover.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Matewis on January 20, 2020, 01:43:54 pm
Die DS community is groot, maar kan in 'n oogwink BAIE klein raak. Almal ken vir almal. Mense praat en die vinnigste om jou besigheid te sink is met shady deals of nie by jou woord hou as jy iets verkoop nie. Die mense praat maar met hulle geld en koop waar hulle vertroue het. Net so het ek al hier op die forum goed gekoop wat die ou al gestuur het en ek hom  dan seker 3-4 keer moet herinner aan ek soek 'n bankrekening sodat ek die goed kan betaal. Dalk was ek nog net elke keer gelukkig.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: charlesvh on January 20, 2020, 02:41:03 pm
 Een van GS se gumtree ads.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Edgar on January 20, 2020, 02:45:38 pm
Wow, ek wonder hoe baie ander mense is dan al geskroef sonder dat hulle dit agterkom, of maar net dit los  :dousing:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 20, 2020, 02:49:35 pm
Ek het nou 'n eerlike (moontlike dom) vraag.

Soos ek dit oorspronklik verstaan het was GS Traders en RCR Motorcycles aparte handelaars.

As ek die laaste verwikkelinge sit en kyk, veral hierdie laaste beeld materiaal, lyk dit vir my of dit dieselfde is?

Ek hoop nie dit is die geval nie, want van wat ek al gehoor het is GS Traders goed/ordentlik, almal met wie ek al gepraat het, het net goeie goed te sê gehad.

Hierdie storie sal 'n lelike merk los indien dit wêl hulle is.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on January 20, 2020, 02:52:00 pm
Die DS community is groot, maar kan in 'n oogwink BAIE klein raak. Almal ken vir almal.

Die DS community is eintlik piepklein en baie van die manne is van min of meer dieselfde ouderdom. Kanse is 100% jy gaan saam met iemand se broer,oom,neef in die army gewees het of saam geswot het n trip doen of rondom n vuur kuier. Eintlik nice want dan praat almal dieselfde "taal". :thumleft:
Title: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 02:57:29 pm
Ek het nou 'n eerlike (moontlike dom) vraag.

Soos ek dit oorspronklik verstaan het was GS Traders en RCR Motorcycles aparte handelaars.

As ek die laaste verwikkelinge sit en kyk, veral hierdie laaste beeld materiaal, lyk dit vir my of dit dieselfde is?

Ek hoop nie dit is die geval nie, want van wat ek al gehoor het is GS Traders goed/ordentlik, almal met wie ek al gepraat het, het net goeie goed te sê gehad.

Hierdie storie sal 'n lelike merk los indien dit wêl hulle is.

Van my kant af is daar niks te sê oor GS Traders nie.
So vêr het ek ook nog net goeie van hul gehoor.

My “beef” is met Shaun Dickens van BM Motorcycles wat by RCR Motorcycles handel dryf.

My vrou se Swart F650GS wat ingeruil is vir die Blou R1200GS, is wel GS Traders toe waar ek dit gesien adverteer was om te verkoop.

Ek bevraagteken wel die RCR Motorcycles 40k diens stempel wat wat in die motorfiets se boekie is.



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Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Shaun M on January 20, 2020, 03:11:13 pm
Damn this is hectic, strongs Rouxman - I hope you get everything back owed to you. so much unnecessary frustration, uncertainty and time wasted because of dubious trading - Maak n mens de moer in.

I was scammed a couple of years back with the sale of a Polo for R80k - I know the feeling ........ its very kaaark

Again, all the best.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Operator on January 20, 2020, 03:19:37 pm
Een van GS se gumtree ads.

Hoe seker is jy dat die dieselfde bike is ?

Indien dit nie dieselfde bike is nie, stel ek voor jy haal dit af van die forum, onmiddelik.
Dis onregverdig dan teenoor handelaar, want dit kan verwarring skep
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 20, 2020, 03:21:43 pm
Ek het nou 'n eerlike (moontlike dom) vraag.

Soos ek dit oorspronklik verstaan het was GS Traders en RCR Motorcycles aparte handelaars.

As ek die laaste verwikkelinge sit en kyk, veral hierdie laaste beeld materiaal, lyk dit vir my of dit dieselfde is?

Ek hoop nie dit is die geval nie, want van wat ek al gehoor het is GS Traders goed/ordentlik, almal met wie ek al gepraat het, het net goeie goed te sê gehad.

Hierdie storie sal 'n lelike merk los indien dit wêl hulle is.

Van my kant af is daar niks te sê oor GS Traders nie.
So vêr het ek ook nog net goeie van hul gehoor.

My “beef” is met Shaun Dickens van BM Motorcycles wat by RCR Motorcycles handel dryf.

My vrou se Swart F650GS wat ingeruil is vir die Blou R1200GS, is wel GS Traders toe waar ek dit gesien adverteer was om te verkoop.

Ek bevraagteken wel die RCR Motorcycles 40k diens stempel wat wat in die motorfiets se boekie is.



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Ja kyk, ek het nou maar net gevra omdat daai laaste Facebook post noem GS Traders.
As dit nie waar is nie, sal ek geensins my naam gekoppel wil hê nie.

RCR weet ek was nog altyd 'n skelm storie, duidelik nogsteeds so.

Ek wens jou net alle sterkte toe my maat, dis bitter sleg.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Sputnik080 on January 20, 2020, 03:23:29 pm
Een van GS se gumtree ads.

Hoe seker is jy dat die dieselfde bike is ?

Indien dit nie dieselfde bike is nie, stel ek voor jy haal dit af van die forum, onmiddelik.
Dis onregverdig dan teenoor handelaar, want dit kan verwarring skep

Soos in my geval. :lol8:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Shaun M on January 20, 2020, 03:28:53 pm
Een van GS se gumtree ads.

Hoe seker is jy dat die dieselfde bike is ?

Indien dit nie dieselfde bike is nie, stel ek voor jy haal dit af van die forum, onmiddelik.
Dis onregverdig dan teenoor handelaar, want dit kan verwarring skep

Ek dink jys reg - daar is verskille op die fietse wat in die fotos is
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 03:38:50 pm
Een van GS se gumtree ads.

Hoe seker is jy dat die dieselfde bike is ?

Indien dit nie dieselfde bike is nie, stel ek voor jy haal dit af van die forum, onmiddelik.
Dis onregverdig dan teenoor handelaar, want dit kan verwarring skep

Dis nie dieselfde fiets nie. Meskien verstaan ek @charlesvh se post verkeerd maar ek lees in dit dat die onderlynde deel van belang is. Menende dat GS Traders nie met CODE 2 of CODE 3 fietse handel dryf nie.

Weereens, my hele storie het niks met GS Trader uit te waai nie.
Shaun het net gese dat hy die fiets wat ek by hom gekoop het, GS Traders toe sal vat om die defektiewe TPS sensor te laat reg maak. Dis al waar GS Trader hier "feature".

Die fiets wat te koop is in @charlesvh se post is NIE die fiets wat ek by Shaun gekoop het nie.

Ek is in besitting van die motorfiets en dit sal so bly tot dat ek my geld terug gekry het by Shaun.

Weereens baie dankie aan almal se bemoedigende terugvoer.

Thank you once again for all your words of encouragement

 
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Jughead on January 20, 2020, 03:46:01 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/zPw87DB/007.jpg)

I haven't read all 4 pages of this thread, but if this is the bike I think it is then yes, it took a major tumble (actually a cartwheel) on the west coast somewhere.  Was taken to Donfords as it wasn't rideable and they wrote it off.

@Rouxman, if you can PM me the last 5 digits of the VIN, I will be able to check for you to confirm.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Grunder on January 20, 2020, 03:48:52 pm

Weereens baie dankie aan almal se bemoedigende terugvoer.

Thank you once again for all your words of encouragement

Bemoedigende terugvoer is goed, maar nou is dit verby.

Nou wil ons meer van die volgende hoor:

""I Came Here to Drink Milk and Kick Ass, and I've Just Finished My Milk"
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 03:59:19 pm

Weereens baie dankie aan almal se bemoedigende terugvoer.

Thank you once again for all your words of encouragement

Bemoedigende terugvoer is goed, maar nou is dit verby.

Nou wil ons meer van die volgende hoor:

""I Came Here to Drink Milk and Kick Ass, and I've Just Finished My Milk"

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 04:03:43 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/zPw87DB/007.jpg)

I haven't read all 4 pages of this thread, but if this is the bike I think it is then yes, it took a major tumble (actually a cartwheel) on the west coast somewhere.  Was taken to Donfords as it wasn't rideable and they wrote it off.

@Rouxman, if you can PM me the last 5 digits of the VIN, I will be able to check for you to confirm.

You have a pm thank you!!


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Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Tyre kicker on January 20, 2020, 05:39:50 pm
What is actually still wrong with this code 3 bike according to Donfords despite it being a code 3?

To the untrained eye the bike looks good, not so? Not that obvious bad code 3 re-build to the untrained eye is it?

What repairs are so expensive that is almost half the value of the bike?

Who repaired the bike in the first place before it was sold to Oomie or whoever after it was written off, and if it was BMW then surely they would have replaced  everything that needed to be replaced with new parts and guaranteed their work?

Is Donfords not just asking crazy prices and exaggerating the "Problem" or "Damage" to the bike knowing it is a code 3 now and that BMW spares are not cheap in any event?

If the NATIS papers had not stated the code 3 were the problems that exist now really obviously detectable or did the code 3 red flag it and spoil it?(I do agree you paid for a proper used non-code 3 bike and I too would have expected that but I am interested in the real condition of the bike despite it being code3?

I am not in any form, way or shape defending or condoning this assholes behaviour in selling a code 3 but what I would like to know is  if it is not salvageable and is it really physically in such a dire condition?

In other words if you can't get your money back is it the end of the road for this bike?

Maybe post the list of what is wrong or right on this bike according to Donfords for interest sake.

Sorry about the bad luck, it sickens me too.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: JonS on January 20, 2020, 06:33:06 pm
Always wondered how the insurance determines when a vehicle is code3 and what's not as I've seen plenty of frame damaged bikes with forks ripped off that are still code2 on SMD and others with minor damage (from the pics) listed as code3.

Unless it was stolen and recovered then I think it's listed as code3 by default as the owner usually has to deregister it with the traffic dept and it may or may not have a new VIN stamped if it had been tampered with.

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: charlesvh on January 20, 2020, 07:28:19 pm
Nooit gese dis selle motorfiets. Net toeval dat dit selle kleur is. Bokse heeltemal anders. My punt was net dat hulle dit in hulle ads stipuleer. Ek dink dat hulle (GS) bewus is van die geval. Kilos ook anders. Jammer vir die misverstand.



Een van GS se gumtree ads.

Hoe seker is jy dat die dieselfde bike is ?

Indien dit nie dieselfde bike is nie, stel ek voor jy haal dit af van die forum, onmiddelik.
Dis onregverdig dan teenoor handelaar, want dit kan verwarring skep
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: TheBear on January 20, 2020, 08:09:26 pm
Always wondered how the insurance determines when a vehicle is code3 and what's not as I've seen plenty of frame damaged bikes with forks ripped off that are still code2 on SMD and others with minor damage (from the pics) listed as code3.

Unless it was stolen and recovered then I think it's listed as code3 by default as the owner usually has to deregister it with the traffic dept and it may or may not have a new VIN stamped if it had been tampered with.

My understanding is that the insurance does not determine whether it is a Code 3, but rather E-Natis.  We seem to confuse ourselves by using the term, "the vehicle was written off".  There are actually two different actions here.  The first is that the insurance declares the vehicle uneconomical to repair.  It is then de-registered on E-Natis, or in some cases it is not.  If de-registered, and then re-registered it will come back as a Code 3.  If it was never de-registered, it will stay a Code 2.

The above is my understanding due to my own bike, a 2015 BMW R1200GS going through the process recently.  The insurance declared it uneconomical to repair.  It seems, there were now three options as far as I could figure. 

- The insurance and I decide that I keep the bike and they pay out a percentage of the insured value.  I repair the bike myself.  It will remain a Code 2 as there was no de-registration, or re-registration on E-Natis.
- The insurance pays me in full and take the bike.  They do the de-registration as ownership moved to them.  The bike goes to a salvage company to be sold as parts, or a whole, or after being rebuild.  It will come back as a Code 3.
- Then there is the illegal option, where the insurance do not de-register the vehicle.  The bike is then rebuild and sold as a Code 2.  For this to happen a few people needs to be in cahoots.  (Note:  This is not what happened to my bike)
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: JonS on January 20, 2020, 08:36:00 pm
Always wondered how the insurance determines when a vehicle is code3 and what's not as I've seen plenty of frame damaged bikes with forks ripped off that are still code2 on SMD and others with minor damage (from the pics) listed as code3.

Unless it was stolen and recovered then I think it's listed as code3 by default as the owner usually has to deregister it with the traffic dept and it may or may not have a new VIN stamped if it had been tampered with.

My understanding is that the insurance does not determine whether it is a Code 3, but rather E-Natis.  We seem to confuse ourselves by using the term, "the vehicle was written off".  There are actually two different actions here.  The first is that the insurance declares the vehicle uneconomical to repair.  It is then de-registered on E-Natis, or in some cases it is not.  If de-registered, and then re-registered it will come back as a Code 3.  If it was never de-registered, it will stay a Code 2.

The above is my understanding due to my own bike, a 2015 BMW R1200GS going through the process recently.  The insurance declared it uneconomical to repair.  It seems, there were now three options as far as I could figure. 

- The insurance and I decide that I keep the bike and they pay out a percentage of the insured value.  I repair the bike myself.  It will remain a Code 2 as there was no de-registration, or re-registration on E-Natis.
- The insurance pays me in full and take the bike.  They do the de-registration as ownership moved to them.  The bike goes to a salvage company to be sold as parts, or a whole, or after being rebuild.  It will come back as a Code 3.
- Then there is the illegal option, where the insurance do not de-register the vehicle.  The bike is then rebuild and sold as a Code 2.  For this to happen a few people needs to be in cahoots.  (Note:  This is not what happened to my bike)

Was doing some googling earlier and found this: https://www.insurancegateway.co.za/download/4725

May be different for vehicles with no finance and it would be in the best interest of the insurers to leave the status as code2 fora higher resale value I would assume?

Quote
DEFINITIONS
The following terminology and NaTis Codes will be used in all correspondence between insurers
and finance houses.
3.1 NaTis Codes
The four life cycle status codes for a motor vehicle on NaTis are;
a.) Code 1 - New
New vehicles delivered by a dealer to the first owner.
b.) Code 2 – Second Hand
Used vehicles with one or more previous owners.
c.) Code 3 - Permanently Unfit For Use
Code 3 vehicles are Code 1 or 2 vehicles involved in an incident, and subsequently being
declared unfit for use as a motor vehicle, such motor vehicle may be rebuilt however will
forever reflect a code 3 allocation and undergo the stringent procedures set out in the
legislation. A vehicle is “Permanently unfit for Use”, when the extent of the damage
includes structural defects that require substantial rebuilding.

d.) Code 4 - Permanently Demolished
Permanently demolished, means that the chassis of a motor vehicle has been
a.)Compacted; b) compressed; c) melted; d) destroyed d; or e) damage to such an extent
that the motor vehicle concerned cannot be made roadworthy and the chassis cannot be
used to build a motor vehicle”.
3.2 Uneconomical to Repair
A vehicle is “uneconomical to repair” when, cost of parts, the availability of parts, the repair
duration and vehicle rental costs are high. The status of the vehicle will not be altered.
Therefore in the insurer’s discretionary opinion the vehicle is uneconomical to repair, but
structurally sound.

3.3 Dealer Stock
Where vehicles are declared uneconomical to repair, vehicles are registered in the name of
the insurance company as the titleholder of the vehicle.
4. PROCESSES THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED
4.1 Responsibility of the Insurance Company
 Insurers undertake to exercise sound judgement and to take extreme care in making
decisions relating to the repair and status of accident-damaged vehicles.
 Insurers and their appointed assessors will make this decision and instruct Finance Houses
accordingly.
4.1.1 Damaged Vehicles
An insured vehicle, involved in an accident, is always assessed by an Insurer appointed specialist
(the motor vehicle engineer or motor assessor) to determine the extent of the damage.
Depending on the extent of the damage, the vehicle will either be repaired, declared
uneconomical to repair or unfit for use as a motor vehicle.
Based on the information provided by the specialist report, the insurer will determine whether the
vehicle should be permanently demolished, is permanently unfit for use or is declared
uneconomical to repair.
Permanently Demolished - If a vehicle is declared “permanently demolished” (Code 4), the
vehicle will be demolished. The insurer will request the Finance House to change the status of
the vehicle on the NaTis system to a Code 4 on settlement and to deregister the vehicle.
Permanently Unfit For Use - If a vehicle is “declared permanently unfit for use” (Code 3), the
vehicle will be written off. The insurer will request the Finance House to change the status of the
vehicle on the NaTis system to a Code 3 on settlement.
Declared Uneconomical To Repair - If a vehicle is “declared uneconomical to repair”, the status
of the vehicle will be or remain that of a Code 2 vehicle. The Insurer warrants that these vehicles
are structurally sound and have the capability of being repaired. The vehicle will be Dealer
stocked into the name of the insurer as the titleholder of the vehicle before selling it as salvage
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: DirkB1980 on January 20, 2020, 08:56:01 pm
Bit of a side track question if you don't mind OP... Where in the NATIS certificate does it state the code of the specific vehicle / bike?

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 08:59:45 pm
Bit of a side track question if you don't mind OP... Where in the NATIS certificate does it state the code of the specific vehicle / bike?

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200120/aa3725572cf95b85df7858588bfbc55c.plist)
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: DirkB1980 on January 20, 2020, 09:01:13 pm
Ah ok, thank you.

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk

Title: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 20, 2020, 09:25:25 pm
What is actually still wrong with this code 3 bike according to Donfords despite it being a code 3?

To the untrained eye the bike looks good, not so? Not that obvious bad code 3 re-build to the untrained eye is it?

What repairs are so expensive that is almost half the value of the bike?

Who repaired the bike in the first place before it was sold to Oomie or whoever after it was written off, and if it was BMW then surely they would have replaced  everything that needed to be replaced with new parts and guaranteed their work?

Is Donfords not just asking crazy prices and exaggerating the "Problem" or "Damage" to the bike knowing it is a code 3 now and that BMW spares are not cheap in any event?

If the NATIS papers had not stated the code 3 were the problems that exist now really obviously detectable or did the code 3 red flag it and spoil it?(I do agree you paid for a proper used non-code 3 bike and I too would have expected that but I am interested in the real condition of the bike despite it being code3?

I am not in any form, way or shape defending or condoning this assholes behaviour in selling a code 3 but what I would like to know is  if it is not salvageable and is it really physically in such a dire condition?

In other words if you can't get your money back is it the end of the road for this bike?

Maybe post the list of what is wrong or right on this bike according to Donfords for interest sake.

Sorry about the bad luck, it sickens me too.

Pertaining to the mere fact that the bike is a Code 3:

For R80k obviously not worth it.
My insurer wont insure for more than R40k. @dual were able to get an insurer who were willing to insure for R51075.00.

So one immediately have a 100% risk on R28025.00 given the higher insurance value.

In terms of the repairs:

I have no idea who the repairs was done by. On this I have zero information.

The bike needs to go for a proper inspection at Motorrad but at this stage I’m not spending a penny on it. They charge R1k for this service.
From there one could make an assessment and decide if it’s worth doing by either outsourcing repairs or diy.

Remember I’m still R80k into this bike.

Had it not been a Code 3, I’m sure the first service visit to Motorrad would’ve highlighted some issues like the rear wheel play, defective tyre pressure sensor(s?).

It is salvageable depending on ones mechanical ability and cost of parts.

I know on my 1150 two FD pivot bearing (available only from motorrad) is R2400 for the pair + swing arm pivot bearings =R5k

On this bike the rear wheel has movement between 12/6 & 3/9. Could be just tightening of swingarm and FD pivot bearings, could also be FD.....

@Dual can elaborate more as he actually had the bike at Donfords.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: dual on January 20, 2020, 10:08:36 pm
Donford had a look at the bike
Play on rear wheel, horizontal and vertical
Telelever rubber perished
Front beak bent to the right
Left shock rubbing against oil cooler pipe
Left heated grip not heating
Front pressure sensor not working, battery
Service light on
From only this they roughly quoted about R 25 000.00, this was enough for me to halt there and walk away
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Vis Arend on January 21, 2020, 04:54:43 am
Donford had a look at the bike
Play on rear wheel, horizontal and vertical
Telelever rubber perished
Front beak bent to the right
Left shock rubbing against oil cooler pipe
Left heated grip not heating
Front pressure sensor not working, battery
Service light on
From only this they roughly quoted about R 25 000.00, this was enough for me to halt there and walk away

 :eek7:  So Rouxman is currently looking at a R105 000, 2008 code 3 bike that can only be insured for R40 000.   Then you still don't know what crap will creep out at a later stage.  Mooi man, en daai ou noem jou 'n vriend.  Fok, ek wil nie weet hoe behandel hy sy vyande nie.   :eek7: :lol8: 
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: TheBear on January 21, 2020, 08:12:26 am
Always wondered how the insurance determines when a vehicle is code3 and what's not as I've seen plenty of frame damaged bikes with forks ripped off that are still code2 on SMD and others with minor damage (from the pics) listed as code3.

Unless it was stolen and recovered then I think it's listed as code3 by default as the owner usually has to deregister it with the traffic dept and it may or may not have a new VIN stamped if it had been tampered with.

My understanding is that the insurance does not determine whether it is a Code 3, but rather E-Natis.  We seem to confuse ourselves by using the term, "the vehicle was written off".  There are actually two different actions here.  The first is that the insurance declares the vehicle uneconomical to repair.  It is then de-registered on E-Natis, or in some cases it is not.  If de-registered, and then re-registered it will come back as a Code 3.  If it was never de-registered, it will stay a Code 2.

The above is my understanding due to my own bike, a 2015 BMW R1200GS going through the process recently.  The insurance declared it uneconomical to repair.  It seems, there were now three options as far as I could figure. 

- The insurance and I decide that I keep the bike and they pay out a percentage of the insured value.  I repair the bike myself.  It will remain a Code 2 as there was no de-registration, or re-registration on E-Natis.
- The insurance pays me in full and take the bike.  They do the de-registration as ownership moved to them.  The bike goes to a salvage company to be sold as parts, or a whole, or after being rebuild.  It will come back as a Code 3.
- Then there is the illegal option, where the insurance do not de-register the vehicle.  The bike is then rebuild and sold as a Code 2.  For this to happen a few people needs to be in cahoots.  (Note:  This is not what happened to my bike)

Was doing some googling earlier and found this: https://www.insurancegateway.co.za/download/4725

May be different for vehicles with no finance and it would be in the best interest of the insurers to leave the status as code2 fora higher resale value I would assume?

Quote
DEFINITIONS
The following terminology and NaTis Codes will be used in all correspondence between insurers
and finance houses.
3.1 NaTis Codes
The four life cycle status codes for a motor vehicle on NaTis are;
a.) Code 1 - New
New vehicles delivered by a dealer to the first owner.
b.) Code 2 – Second Hand
Used vehicles with one or more previous owners.
c.) Code 3 - Permanently Unfit For Use
Code 3 vehicles are Code 1 or 2 vehicles involved in an incident, and subsequently being
declared unfit for use as a motor vehicle, such motor vehicle may be rebuilt however will
forever reflect a code 3 allocation and undergo the stringent procedures set out in the
legislation. A vehicle is “Permanently unfit for Use”, when the extent of the damage
includes structural defects that require substantial rebuilding.

d.) Code 4 - Permanently Demolished
Permanently demolished, means that the chassis of a motor vehicle has been
a.)Compacted; b) compressed; c) melted; d) destroyed d; or e) damage to such an extent
that the motor vehicle concerned cannot be made roadworthy and the chassis cannot be
used to build a motor vehicle”.
3.2 Uneconomical to Repair
A vehicle is “uneconomical to repair” when, cost of parts, the availability of parts, the repair
duration and vehicle rental costs are high. The status of the vehicle will not be altered.
Therefore in the insurer’s discretionary opinion the vehicle is uneconomical to repair, but
structurally sound.

3.3 Dealer Stock
Where vehicles are declared uneconomical to repair, vehicles are registered in the name of
the insurance company as the titleholder of the vehicle.
4. PROCESSES THAT WILL BE FOLLOWED
4.1 Responsibility of the Insurance Company
 Insurers undertake to exercise sound judgement and to take extreme care in making
decisions relating to the repair and status of accident-damaged vehicles.
 Insurers and their appointed assessors will make this decision and instruct Finance Houses
accordingly.
4.1.1 Damaged Vehicles
An insured vehicle, involved in an accident, is always assessed by an Insurer appointed specialist
(the motor vehicle engineer or motor assessor) to determine the extent of the damage.
Depending on the extent of the damage, the vehicle will either be repaired, declared
uneconomical to repair or unfit for use as a motor vehicle.
Based on the information provided by the specialist report, the insurer will determine whether the
vehicle should be permanently demolished, is permanently unfit for use or is declared
uneconomical to repair.
Permanently Demolished - If a vehicle is declared “permanently demolished” (Code 4), the
vehicle will be demolished. The insurer will request the Finance House to change the status of
the vehicle on the NaTis system to a Code 4 on settlement and to deregister the vehicle.
Permanently Unfit For Use - If a vehicle is “declared permanently unfit for use” (Code 3), the
vehicle will be written off. The insurer will request the Finance House to change the status of the
vehicle on the NaTis system to a Code 3 on settlement.
Declared Uneconomical To Repair - If a vehicle is “declared uneconomical to repair”, the status
of the vehicle will be or remain that of a Code 2 vehicle. The Insurer warrants that these vehicles
are structurally sound and have the capability of being repaired. The vehicle will be Dealer
stocked into the name of the insurer as the titleholder of the vehicle before selling it as salvage

I think the issue comes with the definition of "permanently unfit for use as a motor vehicle".  As with many things, the regs are clear, but with loopholes.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: TheBear on January 21, 2020, 08:14:28 am
Donford had a look at the bike
Play on rear wheel, horizontal and vertical
Telelever rubber perished
Front beak bent to the right
Left shock rubbing against oil cooler pipe
Left heated grip not heating
Front pressure sensor not working, battery
Service light on
From only this they roughly quoted about R 25 000.00, this was enough for me to halt there and walk away

With this list, walking away is the only option, even if a Code 2.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Thunderlinde on January 21, 2020, 08:36:06 am
When buying cars ,must be very careful even if you have the papers,the car can be a clone


As long as it's not a Land Rover.

Or an Alfa...
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kuifie on January 21, 2020, 10:20:04 am
Donford had a look at the bike
Play on rear wheel, horizontal and vertical
Telelever rubber perished
Front beak bent to the right
Left shock rubbing against oil cooler pipe
Left heated grip not heating
Front pressure sensor not working, battery
Service light on
From only this they roughly quoted about R 25 000.00, this was enough for me to halt there and walk away

With this list, walking away is the only option, even if a Code 2.

Sou GS Traders nie bike uitgecheck het en bevestig het alles is mooi nie. Ek is bly om net goeie goed van GS traders te lees hier want ek het weer ander stories gehoor wat dalk net stories is.......... Ek trust niemand. Sal maar altyd by  dealer probeer koop.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: TeeJay on January 21, 2020, 12:40:01 pm
@Rouxman


Any update?
Title: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 21, 2020, 01:22:57 pm
@Rouxman


Any update?

There have been some developments.

I cannot reveal this now but as the story unfolds I will share what I can.

I’m just hanging back on current developments as it may influence the outcome.

What I can say is that as I’m learning more I’m becoming less and less compassionate towards Shaun.

He knows exactly what he’s doing.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: TeeJay on January 21, 2020, 03:58:35 pm
@Rouxman


Any update?

There have been some developments.

I cannot reveal this now but as the story unfolds I will share what I can.

I’m just hanging back on current developments as it may influence the outcome.

What I can say is that as I’m learning more I’m becoming less and less compassionate towards Shaun.

He knows exactly what he’s doing.

Thanks - yep that's usually the case with conmen - they know what they're doing. Hoping for a good outcome.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 21, 2020, 04:07:31 pm
keep us posted  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kuifie on January 21, 2020, 04:24:21 pm
keep us posted  :thumleft:

Sorry man met hierdie thread het ek besluit ek koop nie meer bikes by pelle nie
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 21, 2020, 04:30:12 pm
keep us posted  :thumleft:

Sorry man met hierdie thread het ek besluit ek koop nie meer bikes by pelle nie

Ek het weer besluit ek koop nie n fok n bike in die Kaap nie  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on January 21, 2020, 04:33:27 pm
keep us posted  :thumleft:

Sorry man met hierdie thread het ek besluit ek koop nie meer bikes by pelle nie

Ek het weer besluit ek koop nie n fok n bike in die Kaap nie  :imaposer:

En ek is heeltyd bang julle dink ek is die ou van George waarna daar heeltyd verwys word.  :lol8:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: eberhard on January 21, 2020, 04:59:21 pm
Sorry man met hierdie thread het ek besluit ek koop nie meer bikes by pelle nie

Kom aan, wat is 'n R105 000 nou tussen pêlle?  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Vis Arend on January 21, 2020, 08:13:30 pm
Sorry man met hierdie thread het ek besluit ek koop nie meer bikes by pelle nie

Kom aan, wat is 'n R105 000 nou tussen pêlle?  :peepwall:

Skerp jy.   :biggrin: :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Mapog on January 21, 2020, 09:10:32 pm
Met rygoed ry ek maar eerder n voertuig langer, maar probeer dan nuut koop.

Ek is gemaklik om my bakkies te ry tot 500 k km, want ek weet wat ek het.

As ek 2de hands koop, dan moet dit n groot besparing bring.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 21, 2020, 09:24:32 pm
keep us posted  :thumleft:

Sorry man met hierdie thread het ek besluit ek koop nie meer bikes by pelle nie

Ek het weer besluit ek koop nie n fok n bike in die Kaap nie  :imaposer:

Dis net met BMW's waar jy so baie dodgy karakters kry.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rynet on January 22, 2020, 08:30:48 am
Hi Rouxman. I have sympathy for you, but what is your intent with sharing the story " Far and Wide " as you said in one of your Facebook posts which you posted on various bike groups?

Is your intent to say to people: Look, I did not have a R80,000 motorbike checked out or the NATIS checked when I bought it or even before I registered it . Please learn from my mistake.  Please do your checks and balances before you buy.
Or is your intention to warn people against Shaun Dickens. That they must not buy from him and that he must close his bike shop ?
Do you think Shaun does this will all his bikes ? Surely not ? And , I am sure are a lot of Code 3 bikes out there that have been fixed up well and the owners are happily riding same.

Your situation is terrible , having trusted someone to do something that you should have checked but there is a solution but you are not giving it to him.

I don't know this Shaun Dickens at all. But on Facebook he answered you and said the following : "Shaun Dickens Hi Fanus all of this above is completely true and yes I will refund you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to me so I could put it on the floor and sell it and yes I will sell it for less than what you paid. Like I told you I have a couple of buyers lined up and I will stand for this mistake I made and you know I received the natis after you took delivery of the bike. I honestly did not know it was a code 3 the previous owner told me when I asked him about it that he did not know and never even looked at it. I started my own bike shop 5 months ago and business is slow so I dont have all the money to pay you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to the floor so I could sell it .
So Fanus I do apologize and am trying my best to resolve this as quickly as possible
"

I also see on Facebook that he has a wife and two small daughters.  Running his own new small business especially in the current economical climate and over Christmas season when no one has money, what if he does need the bike to sell to be able to start paying you back. Bikes Sales are awful at the moment. No one has money for luxuries.

I admire your morals and ethics, but can you really control what Shaun does with the bike. You say that you don't want to pay R1,000 to get a detailed break-down as to what is wrong with the bike. But I would have thought that is where one should start.  To see what exactly is wrong and how much it would cost to fix. Once he has the list of damages he can get it fixed where he works or with one of his colleagues. What he sells it for the next person is between him and the next person, but at least he can then start paying you back. Or have the bike sitting at another bike shop. I don't think Buyers are going to come to your house. Shaun knows that you will put the Buyers off. Sitting at your house you are forcing a solution that may not be possible and could be a statement unless you have a solution which I really hope you do for all concerned.  :thumleft: :thumleft:

EDIT: I meant " stalemate" not statement.

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Grunder on January 22, 2020, 09:01:58 am
Hi Rouxman. I have sympathy for you, but what is your intent with sharing the story " Far and Wide " as you said in one of your Facebook posts which you posted on various bike groups?

Is your intent to say to people: Look, I did not have a R80,000 motorbike checked out or the NATIS checked when I bought it or even before I registered it . Please learn from my mistake.  Please do your checks and balances before you buy.
Or is your intention to warn people against Shaun Dickens. That they must not buy from him and that he must close his bike shop ?
Do you think Shaun does this will all his bikes ? Surely not ? And , I am sure are a lot of Code 3 bikes out there that have been fixed up well and the owners are happily riding same.

Your situation is terrible , having trusted someone to do something that you should have checked but there is a solution but you are not giving it to him.

I don't know this Shaun Dickens at all. But on Facebook he answered you and said the following : "Shaun Dickens Hi Fanus all of this above is completely true and yes I will refund you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to me so I could put it on the floor and sell it and yes I will sell it for less than what you paid. Like I told you I have a couple of buyers lined up and I will stand for this mistake I made and you know I received the natis after you took delivery of the bike. I honestly did not know it was a code 3 the previous owner told me when I asked him about it that he did not know and never even looked at it. I started my own bike shop 5 months ago and business is slow so I dont have all the money to pay you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to the floor so I could sell it .
So Fanus I do apologize and am trying my best to resolve this as quickly as possible
"

I also see on Facebook that he has a wife and two small daughters.  Running his own new small business especially in the current economical climate and over Christmas season when no one has money, what if he does need the bike to sell to be able to start paying you back. Bikes Sales are awful at the moment. No one has money for luxuries.

I admire your morals and ethics, but can you really control what Shaun does with the bike. You say that you don't want to pay R1,000 to get a detailed break-down as to what is wrong with the bike. But I would have thought that is where one should start.  To see what exactly is wrong and how much it would cost to fix. Once he has the list of damages he can get it fixed where he works or with one of his colleagues. What he sells it for the next person is between him and the next person, but at least he can then start paying you back. Or have the bike sitting at another bike shop. I don't think Buyers are going to come to your house. Shaun knows that you will put the Buyers off. Sitting at your house you are forcing a solution that may not be possible and could be a statement unless you have a solution which I really hope you do for all concerned.  :thumleft: :thumleft:

I believe its a principal thing.

Too many times these type of people get away with what they do only to live another day to do it to the next (unknowing) person.

The biggest problem in the world is not 'evil men' , but the indifference of good men.

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rynet on January 22, 2020, 09:11:23 am

I believe its a principal thing.

Too many times these type of people get away with what they do only to live another day to do it to the next (unknowing) person.

The biggest problem in the world is not 'evil men' , but the indifference of good men.

It is VERY expensive to have principles.
If you sue on principles please know you may lose a lot more money and at the end you may walk away with nothing. It takes years to get a court date and by that time the momentum of the thing has passed

Suing " on principle" is the worse thing you can do in my experience. I found that you get more results by working with the other party and get a solution early on and walk way with most of your money, rather than sit on your principles and not budge. The opposed legal system is long and expensive. Compromise, find a solution and walk away richer in wisdom but a few rand poorer.

Having said that , I am sure that Rouxman's attorney has a solution. I hope he has.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Grunder on January 22, 2020, 09:16:51 am

I believe its a principal thing.

Too many times these type of people get away with what they do only to live another day to do it to the next (unknowing) person.

The biggest problem in the world is not 'evil men' , but the indifference of good men.

It is VERY expensive to have principles.
If you sue on principles please know you may lose a lot more money and at the end you may walk away with nothing. It takes years to get a court date and by that time the momentum of the thing has passed

Suing " on principle" is the worse thing you can do in my experience. I found that you get more results by working with the other party and get a solution early on and walk way with most of your money, rather than sit on your principles and not budge. The opposed legal system is long and expensive. Compromise, find a solution and walk away richer in wisdom but a few rand poorer.

Having said that , I am sure that Rouxman's attorney has a solution. I hope he has.  :thumleft:

By what I have read so far he has exhausted that avenue already.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Maverick on January 22, 2020, 11:12:08 am

Your situation is terrible , having trusted someone to do something that you should have checked but there is a solution but you are not giving it to him.

I don't know this Shaun Dickens at all. But on Facebook he answered you and said the following : "Shaun Dickens Hi Fanus all of this above is completely true and yes I will refund you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to me so I could put it on the floor and sell it and yes I will sell it for less than what you paid. Like I told you I have a couple of buyers lined up and I will stand for this mistake I made and you know I received the natis after you took delivery of the bike. I honestly did not know it was a code 3 the previous owner told me when I asked him about it that he did not know and never even looked at it. I started my own bike shop 5 months ago and business is slow so I dont have all the money to pay you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to the floor so I could sell it .
So Fanus I do apologize and am trying my best to resolve this as quickly as possible
"

I also see on Facebook that he has a wife and two small daughters.  Running his own new small business especially in the current economical climate and over Christmas season when no one has money, what if he does need the bike to sell to be able to start paying you back. Bikes Sales are awful at the moment. No one has money for luxuries.

I admire your morals and ethics, but can you really control what Shaun does with the bike. You say that you don't want to pay R1,000 to get a detailed break-down as to what is wrong with the bike. But I would have thought that is where one should start.  To see what exactly is wrong and how much it would cost to fix. Once he has the list of damages he can get it fixed where he works or with one of his colleagues. What he sells it for the next person is between him and the next person, but at least he can then start paying you back. Or have the bike sitting at another bike shop. I don't think Buyers are going to come to your house. Shaun knows that you will put the Buyers off. Sitting at your house you are forcing a solution that may not be possible and could be a statement unless you have a solution which I really hope you do for all concerned.  :thumleft: :thumleft:

EDIT: I meant " stalemate" not statement.

@Rynet this is a nice emotional viewpoint to look at the situation and nothing wrong with being compassionate and giving someone another chance. The fact that it is was Christmas season, the guy have a wife and two daughters and times are tough is surely more reason not to take chances and try and screw someone over. Lets be clear on something - this is NOT the first time Shaun has done something like this, there is enough people coming out of the woodwork to confirm. The other side is Rouxman's wife who have been saving up for over two years and parted with her 650 to make a dream come true to own a 1200GS for Christmas, should she just say hey I will take one for the team at least this guy can have a good Christmas with his family. I know Rouxman for near 15 years and he will NOT EVER let his wife get on a bike with all those defects risking something to go wrong.

We all had run-ins with shady dealers in the past and the majority will just say well lesson learnt and I just won't deal with this guy again. The prospect of losing more money/time/effort just sometimes seems to much to make it a matter of principal. I want to thank @Rouxman for a public service he is doing for all the prospective bike buyers out there. I don't for one minute believe when the bike is sold the stuff will be fixed. If you can fake the service stamps for a start you can surely fake an invoice on spares and work spend. Short of another inspection from BMW confirming all the work was done or someone willing to buy the bike in said condition it should not be on the road or in the hands of another unsuspecting buyer.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Grunder on January 22, 2020, 11:16:04 am
Agreed
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Wooly Bugger on January 22, 2020, 11:39:38 am
Sjoe? :sip:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: manxkipper on January 22, 2020, 12:04:25 pm
Sympathy and dishonesty are mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 22, 2020, 12:08:32 pm

Your situation is terrible , having trusted someone to do something that you should have checked but there is a solution but you are not giving it to him.

I don't know this Shaun Dickens at all. But on Facebook he answered you and said the following : "Shaun Dickens Hi Fanus all of this above is completely true and yes I will refund you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to me so I could put it on the floor and sell it and yes I will sell it for less than what you paid. Like I told you I have a couple of buyers lined up and I will stand for this mistake I made and you know I received the natis after you took delivery of the bike. I honestly did not know it was a code 3 the previous owner told me when I asked him about it that he did not know and never even looked at it. I started my own bike shop 5 months ago and business is slow so I dont have all the money to pay you and that is why I asked you to pls bring the bike to the floor so I could sell it .
So Fanus I do apologize and am trying my best to resolve this as quickly as possible
"

I also see on Facebook that he has a wife and two small daughters.  Running his own new small business especially in the current economical climate and over Christmas season when no one has money, what if he does need the bike to sell to be able to start paying you back. Bikes Sales are awful at the moment. No one has money for luxuries.

I admire your morals and ethics, but can you really control what Shaun does with the bike. You say that you don't want to pay R1,000 to get a detailed break-down as to what is wrong with the bike. But I would have thought that is where one should start.  To see what exactly is wrong and how much it would cost to fix. Once he has the list of damages he can get it fixed where he works or with one of his colleagues. What he sells it for the next person is between him and the next person, but at least he can then start paying you back. Or have the bike sitting at another bike shop. I don't think Buyers are going to come to your house. Shaun knows that you will put the Buyers off. Sitting at your house you are forcing a solution that may not be possible and could be a statement unless you have a solution which I really hope you do for all concerned.  :thumleft: :thumleft:

EDIT: I meant " stalemate" not statement.

@Rynet this is a nice emotional viewpoint to look at the situation and nothing wrong with being compassionate and giving someone another chance. The fact that it is was Christmas season, the guy have a wife and two daughters and times are tough is surely more reason not to take chances and try and screw someone over. Lets be clear on something - this is NOT the first time Shaun has done something like this, there is enough people coming out of the woodwork to confirm. The other side is Rouxman's wife who have been saving up for over two years and parted with her 650 to make a dream come true to own a 1200GS for Christmas, should she just say hey I will take one for the team at least this guy can have a good Christmas with his family. I know Rouxman for near 15 years and he will NOT EVER let his wife get on a bike with all those defects risking something to go wrong.

We all had run-ins with shady dealers in the past and the majority will just say well lesson learnt and I just won't deal with this guy again. The prospect of losing more money/time/effort just sometimes seems to much to make it a matter of principal. I want to thank @Rouxman for a public service he is doing for all the prospective bike buyers out there. I don't for one minute believe when the bike is sold the stuff will be fixed. If you can fake the service stamps for a start you can surely fake an invoice on spares and work spend. Short of another inspection from BMW confirming all the work was done or someone willing to buy the bike in said condition it should not be on the road or in the hands of another unsuspecting buyer.

my free advice:

Listen to Rynet….. find a solution to the issue to minimise your school fees.

Free advice is normally worth what you paid for it.
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: Cracker on January 22, 2020, 12:52:10 pm
Yes .................... a shoe can also be a clone.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Coxwain on January 22, 2020, 01:00:01 pm
My 2 cents worth for what it’s worth.
Rouxman, you are in a shitty situation and I completely understand why you won’t allow the bike to be resold by the other party. As they say "Possession is nine tenths of the law" You have no guarantee of getting paid if the bike does get sold. .
But as Rynet stated, you are in a stalemate situation.
Maybe consider reaching an agreement between yourself, the other party, and Donfords wherein Donfords repair the bike to your satisfaction and bill the other party for the repairs. At least you will have a bike that is mechanically sound. Yes, the fact still remains that it is registered as a code 3. But in the long run this solution will work out a lot cheaper than if you go down the legal route. 
Title: Re: Name and shame
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 22, 2020, 01:22:51 pm
When buying cars ,must be very careful even if you have the papers,the car can be a clone


As long as it's not a Land Rover.

Or an Alfa...

There's far worse, as in this case it involved a BMW. :patch:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Grunder on January 22, 2020, 01:24:17 pm
Obviously financially is makes sense to play it safe.

If Rouxman decides to go the settlement route nobody will point fingers at him.

It just frustrates me that in most cases these guys live to scam another person.

Just no real consequences to these type of sly dealings.

Even if he gets fired he will be like a mushroom and pop out in another place
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: punisher on January 22, 2020, 04:12:53 pm
the only reason scammers exist is , because some or other party finds an excuse for them , or reason to justify their situation , thus they continue scamming , its a pathetic society we live in , where people with so called morals can excuse these types of scum actions .

Rouxman , sorry you are in this situation , caused exclusively by a scumbag. hope you get sorted soon man

ps ....  i like your morals mate , good man


Title: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on January 22, 2020, 08:06:00 pm
@Rynet I would agree that settlement outside the court would be the most logical and cost effective solution.  I can however not relate to having sympathy for Mr Dickens.  The fact that he has a wife and kids is immaterial, many criminals do and I don’t think empathy should cloud the issue. (Please note I’m not directly accusing Mr Dickens as a criminal, I’m in no position to do so.)

To place the bike with Mr Dickens on consignment stock requires a whole lot of trust.  Trust that has been completely broken.  As current owner of the bike, the OP has an obligation to disclose the fact that it’s a code 3 and disclose any defects he is aware of.  I don’t see this as moral high ground, more moral obligation. The new owner could very well make the OP out as the villain should he acquire a bike through Mr Dickens and post purchase find out of the problems which was again not disclosed.

If Mr Dickens want to make amends, he should start by being honest with the attempt to sell the bike.  Currently, although the price was lowered, it still doesn’t disclose the fact that it’s a code 3, neither any of the other problems mentioned.

(Will insert screenshot of the ad shortly)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200122/079fe99e90412e5258a2c76987dde68c.jpg)
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Matewis on January 22, 2020, 09:01:26 pm
@Rynet I would agree that settlement outside the court would be the most logical and cost effective solution.  I can however not relate to having sympathy for Mr Dickens.  The fact that he has a wife and kids is immaterial, many criminals do and I don’t think empathy should cloud the issue. (Please note I’m not directly accusing Mr Dickens as a criminal, I’m in no position to do so.)

To place the bike with Mr Dickens on consignment stock requires a whole lot of trust.  Trust that has been completely broken.  As current owner of the bike, the OP has an obligation to disclose the fact that it’s a code 3 and disclose any defects he is aware of.  I don’t see this as moral high ground, more moral obligation. The new owner could very well make the OP out as the villain should he acquire a bike through Mr Dickens and post purchase find out of the problems which was again not disclosed.

If Mr Dickens want to make amends, he should start by being honest with the attempt to sell the bike.  Currently, although the price was lowered, it still doesn’t disclose the fact that it’s a code 3, neither any of the other problems mentioned.

(Will insert screenshot of the ad shortly)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200122/079fe99e90412e5258a2c76987dde68c.jpg)

Immaculate - There i fixed it
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rynet on January 22, 2020, 09:19:10 pm
I don't have sympathy for Shaun Dickens. I just think it is pointless to focus on changing his behaviour or closing him down when our Wild Dog client ( " our client" ) has so much money to lose. I think our client should focus his attention on getting his money.

I don't have an opinion on Dickens . I just think it is a waste or time to explore his ethics or lack thereof. All this talk of how wrong he is is just a red herring.

I am practical and solution orientated. What does it matter what Dickens advertises it as.

By refusing to let the bike stand at a bike shop , our client is shooting himself in his foot. Mr D clearly needs to sell the bike to give our client his money or most of it . And get a AOD signed by him or his wife or his shop or whatever for the rest so that you can take judgment if he fails to pay off by X date

And by not getting a proper and full quote our client is risking not being able to prove his damages .

A proper and detailed quote will be in his own benefit . It will prove part of his actual damages and can be :
1. used in a court case to prove damages;
2. Used to fix the bike; and/or
3. given to prospective buyers so it is transparent and clear.

(A vague oh well Dual took the bike to be glanced at and at a glance a bike shop thinks the damages may be X, Y and Z is worth nothing but speculation.)

To be honest and blunt I don't understand why our client is prepared to lose R80,000 on moral grounds, but he doesn't want to spend R1,000 on a proper quote of damages.  :peepwall:

As for advertising the bike by Mr Dickens. That has nothing to do with the rest of us. I don't  know if it is the same bike, but anyway I presume one advertises an item for more , and then when the person looks at it and is told that it is a Code 3 and it has to be a cash deal since one cannot get financing, someone will anyway offer less. How do I know what Mr Dickens's normal clients are like. I am not interested in Mr D, just that our soft-hearted client does not get side-tracked with doing good and so undoes his own case.

I personally think there is a solution and that is what must be focused on. The rest of us has now been warned.  No need to warn us more. This character will sell bikes for a long time still and he will probably have a lot of happy clients and friends. He will probably pay our client back if he only lets him.   :peepwall:

The bike can stand at another dealer if our client doesn't trust Mr D. Sorry I am just being direct.  :thumleft:

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rynet on January 22, 2020, 09:36:05 pm
PS  I also think the parties must sit together , perhaps with a neutral person eg from a reputable bike dealer and work out something between them. Speak to the man and work it out. Sending messages to each other esp via social media, you lose each other. Work with what you cannot change , work out a deal in person, man to man. And get it signed and witnessed.
He is a business man and I am sure he also wants a solution that is practical and possible. I am sure if he had the darn R80 k he would have given it to you already. Work with him. You are more likely to achieve something in person than via soc media.

Anyway that is enough interfering by me and I hope my directness did not offend you Rouxman.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: dual on January 22, 2020, 09:37:03 pm
(A vague oh well Dual took the bike to be glanced at and at a glance a bike shop thinks the damages may be X, Y and Z is worth nothing but speculation.)

Fact, no speculation, and if I wanted to, I could get it in writing, a reputable dealer, I decided to walk away
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Mapog on January 22, 2020, 09:58:56 pm
Rynet
I hear what you are saying, it makes sence. But it doesnt make sence when you are dealing with a crook.
Sitting and talking and bla bla bla with him would only suite him, as it buys him more time.
He needs to man up and keep his promises. Sitting and talking might work in your world where you can negotiate with somebody that in fact has the means and ability to help you.
I get the feeling that this mr DICKens are living from the fork to the mouth.
No amount of negotiating would help. He needs money and he is an opportunist.

I have seen and worked and lived with people like this my whole life, even family. To them you are just a means to a free meal(or a million if at al possible), they feel f#$@oll for you.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rynet on January 22, 2020, 10:02:06 pm
(A vague oh well Dual took the bike to be glanced at and at a glance a bike shop thinks the damages may be X, Y and Z is worth nothing but speculation.)

Fact, no speculation, and if I wanted to, I could get it in writing, a reputable dealer, I decided to walk away

Sorry Dual , there was no offence meant. I am basing it on the fact that it was a quick glance by a reputable dealer, not a written quotation and inspection. My highlights :

This was posted by Mr Rouxman on page 1 :' He { Dual  }took the bike to Donfords Stellenbosch for a second opinion. According to Donfords the bike is worth R35k. This was based on the fact that a quick look around the bike revealed R20k’s worth of repairs. This excludes if they find something with a proper inspection. Dual withdrew his offer and walked away from the purchase. (Good decision!!) "


And in Post 80 , Rouxman says : "The bike needs to go for a proper inspection at Motorrad but at this stage I’m not spending a penny on it. They charge R1k for this service.
From there one could make an assessment and decide if it’s worth doing by either outsourcing repairs or diy.


Remember I’m still R80k into this bike.

Had it not been a Code 3, I’m sure the first service visit to Motorrad would’ve highlighted some issues like the rear wheel play, defective tyre pressure sensor(s?).

It is salvageable depending on ones mechanical ability and cost of parts
."
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kobus Myburgh on January 22, 2020, 10:26:36 pm
I don't have sympathy for Shaun Dickens. I just think it is pointless to focus on changing his behaviour or closing him down when our Wild Dog client ( " our client" ) has so much money to lose. I think our client should focus his attention on getting his money.

I don't have an opinion on Dickens . I just think it is a waste or time to explore his ethics or lack thereof. All this talk of how wrong he is is just a red herring.

I am practical and solution orientated. What does it matter what Dickens advertises it as.

By refusing to let the bike stand at a bike shop , our client is shooting himself in his foot. Mr D clearly needs to sell the bike to give our client his money or most of it . And get a AOD signed by him or his wife or his shop or whatever for the rest so that you can take judgment if he fails to pay off by X date

And by not getting a proper and full quote our client is risking not being able to prove his damages .

A proper and detailed quote will be in his own benefit . It will prove part of his actual damages and can be :
1. used in a court case to prove damages;
2. Used to fix the bike; and/or
3. given to prospective buyers so it is transparent and clear.

(A vague oh well Dual took the bike to be glanced at and at a glance a bike shop thinks the damages may be X, Y and Z is worth nothing but speculation.)

To be honest and blunt I don't understand why our client is prepared to lose R80,000 on moral grounds, but he doesn't want to spend R1,000 on a proper quote of damages.  :peepwall:

As for advertising the bike by Mr Dickens. That has nothing to do with the rest of us. I don't  know if it is the same bike, but anyway I presume one advertises an item for more , and then when the person looks at it and is told that it is a Code 3 and it has to be a cash deal since one cannot get financing, someone will anyway offer less. How do I know what Mr Dickens's normal clients are like. I am not interested in Mr D, just that our soft-hearted client does not get side-tracked with doing good and so undoes his own case.

I personally think there is a solution and that is what must be focused on. The rest of us has now been warned.  No need to warn us more. This character will sell bikes for a long time still and he will probably have a lot of happy clients and friends. He will probably pay our client back if he only lets him.   :peepwall:

The bike can stand at another dealer if our client doesn't trust Mr D. Sorry I am just being direct.  :thumleft:

I respectfully disagree with your take on the matter.  If I was behind the computer now I would’ve responded, highlighting where and why, but way too comfortable to get out of bed now.

Let’s rather just agree to disagree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 22, 2020, 10:32:10 pm
I don't have sympathy for Shaun Dickens. I just think it is pointless to focus on changing his behaviour or closing him down when our Wild Dog client ( " our client" ) has so much money to lose. I think our client should focus his attention on getting his money.

I don't have an opinion on Dickens . I just think it is a waste or time to explore his ethics or lack thereof. All this talk of how wrong he is is just a red herring.

I am practical and solution orientated. What does it matter what Dickens advertises it as.

By refusing to let the bike stand at a bike shop , our client is shooting himself in his foot. Mr D clearly needs to sell the bike to give our client his money or most of it . And get a AOD signed by him or his wife or his shop or whatever for the rest so that you can take judgment if he fails to pay off by X date

And by not getting a proper and full quote our client is risking not being able to prove his damages .

A proper and detailed quote will be in his own benefit . It will prove part of his actual damages and can be :
1. used in a court case to prove damages;
2. Used to fix the bike; and/or
3. given to prospective buyers so it is transparent and clear.

(A vague oh well Dual took the bike to be glanced at and at a glance a bike shop thinks the damages may be X, Y and Z is worth nothing but speculation.)

To be honest and blunt I don't understand why our client is prepared to lose R80,000 on moral grounds, but he doesn't want to spend R1,000 on a proper quote of damages.  :peepwall:

As for advertising the bike by Mr Dickens. That has nothing to do with the rest of us. I don't  know if it is the same bike, but anyway I presume one advertises an item for more , and then when the person looks at it and is told that it is a Code 3 and it has to be a cash deal since one cannot get financing, someone will anyway offer less. How do I know what Mr Dickens's normal clients are like. I am not interested in Mr D, just that our soft-hearted client does not get side-tracked with doing good and so undoes his own case.

I personally think there is a solution and that is what must be focused on. The rest of us has now been warned.  No need to warn us more. This character will sell bikes for a long time still and he will probably have a lot of happy clients and friends. He will probably pay our client back if he only lets him.   :peepwall:

The bike can stand at another dealer if our client doesn't trust Mr D. Sorry I am just being direct.  :thumleft:

So why even mention the cheat's "wife and 2 small children" and a struggling new business in harsh economic times??

Your practical and solution orientation left you in the lurch there for a moment.

And I do not blame you for it Rynet, you have a good heart.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on January 22, 2020, 11:03:11 pm
Met die man se Geskiedenis, watse waarborg is daar, as jy die fiets by hom gaan los, en hy verkoop hom, dat jy jou geld gaan kry?

So ou het n paar gate wat hy moet toestop. So die 1200GS se geld gaan dalk na die ander Kawasaki deal toe wat ook n foutjie was....net n voorbeeld.

So dis n warm een die.

Hou die GS, en jy kry nie jou geld terug nie.
Gee die GS vd salesman, en jy het nie geld nie ook dalk nie meer n bike nie.....

Sterkte!
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Namakwalander on January 23, 2020, 07:41:18 am
Sorry to hear about your situation @Rouxman

I think many of us have a story to tell about a deal gone sour or walking away from something that turned out to be lemon.

I once tried to buy a bakkie from Harrismith at a very reputable dealer. It looked amazing in the photos and the guy ensured me it is in perfect condition. Finally I ask him if it would be possible to meet me half way (Bloemfontein) to make the deal, but then he starts to demand that I pay the full amount upfront and that if I were to walk away he would refund me in full. Said I would think about it and later phoned him back to ask if it is possible to talk to the previous owner. Sure, he said, and gave me a landline number. Could not reach the guy at first and then Googled his number to find out he owns a panel beater shop. There I find his cell number and give him a call. He then tells me that he bought the bakkie from the insurance after it rolled onto its side, fixed it, drove it for a year then sold it to the dealer. The dealer said he was not aware of this (he might genuinely have no knowledge of this) and I just thanked him for his time and hung up.

The same recently with a guy from a dealer in Gauteng trying to sell me a 7 seater Qashqai with slightly high mileage and high (to me) price. I told him that I would think about it and then realized that the car he is trying to sell me is just a normal 5 seater. Did he not look at the car or was he just playing dumb?

Rouxman, I hope you get this resolved and that even though you might not be friends afterwards, that you can at least look each other in the eyes.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Herkules on January 23, 2020, 08:47:43 am
 :sip: Many years ago I went to a guy that sells Isuzu bakkies, had a look at a nice looking 4x4 single cab, while looking through the vehicle I saw the manual and noticed the previous owners tel no. (before cell phones) and memorized it.
I wrote it down and went home and phoned. It was his parent's no. and they give me his new no. in Gansbaai.
I phoned him to get an idea of the services etc. He told me that the bakkie did 80 000 km more than I saw and that he towed a fishing boat every day with it and launched the boat with water halfway up the sides and waves hitting the back.
The dealer had some rust taken out by his workshop and resprayed. When I told him I will not take the vehicle, he was quite rude, I then told him about the previous owner and walked out.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: IceCreamMan on January 23, 2020, 09:44:47 am
I still believe Rynet is onto something here. You into this for school fees, the amount of which is determined by your actions. I believe the least amount would be to work out an agreement.

However, I guess one does not sit with the devil and thrash out a deal.

To go the legal route is going to increase your school fees substantially and you still cant get blood out of a stone.

its a woeful tale, I still think its probably best to work something out with Mr Dickens... get him to acknowledge his obligations etc.

I absolutely empathise with you, this shatters one faith in humanity.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: immigrant on January 24, 2020, 05:34:11 am
I was looking at buying a Ford F150 for my wife. Dealer in town had a used one on the lot with 10,000km. Mint condition, except for a small ding on the passenger door. Dealer gives me some story about the previous owner had to sell because of financial issues etc. Next day at work I ask my boss if he likes his new F150 that he bought a few months ago. He said no.... the engine blew up at 10,000km while he was on his way to the panel beater to fix a small ding on the passenger door.....
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Pullaway on January 24, 2020, 09:00:53 am
I was looking at buying a Ford F150 for my wife. Dealer in town had a used one on the lot with 10,000km. Mint condition, except for a small ding on the passenger door. Dealer gives me some story about the previous owner had to sell because of financial issues etc. Next day at work I ask my boss if he likes his new F150 that he bought a few months ago. He said no.... the engine blew up at 10,000km while he was on his way to the panel beater to fix a small ding on the passenger door.....
What a way to find out your boss has financial issues. :patch:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: 0012 on January 24, 2020, 09:45:00 am
I was looking at buying a Ford F150 for my wife. Dealer in town had a used one on the lot with 10,000km. Mint condition, except for a small ding on the passenger door. Dealer gives me some story about the previous owner had to sell because of financial issues etc. Next day at work I ask my boss if he likes his new F150 that he bought a few months ago. He said no.... the engine blew up at 10,000km while he was on his way to the panel beater to fix a small ding on the passenger door.....
What a way to find out your boss has financial issues. :patch:

 :spitcoffee:   :laughing4:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Wooly Bugger on January 27, 2020, 08:59:27 am
 :peepwall:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on January 28, 2020, 10:46:07 pm
:peepwall:

Keep lurking for an update.
Hopefully in the not too distant future


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Roxtar on January 29, 2020, 12:07:02 pm
Not going into anybody's fault/not fault here in any way, each to his own I say but experience has taught me a few pointers when buying and selling cars/bikes over the last 30 years: Note I never buy new so this applies to used vehicles of more mature standing i.e. 5 years and older...
 - Make it your responsibility as Buyer to make sure paperwork is in order and is registered according to your understanding and expectation. This saves you huge effort and frustration down the line. I have walked away from many deals where the paperwork was suspect or misrepresented....
 - Start with the paperwork and carry on from there, if not in order the rest is just a waste of time...
 - Never rely/listen to sales talk! Not to blanket all salespeople as I have dealt with some of the best, but ignore all the talk, SEE for yourself as most will promise/confirm anything you ask just to do the sale...
 - Ask a lot of questions, you can quickly gauge if bullsh!t is trying to baffle brains...
 - Take your overall and torch, get under the vehicle and go through it with a fine tooth comb... I have walked into WeSellCars and other dealerships with a torch, overall, rag in the pocket and slide trolley as I literally get under the vehicle and go through every inch including paperwork before even expressing interest in a possible buy....
 - Pull the dipstick, smell and feel the oil
 - Stick your finger into back of the exhaust and feel for oil, sticky content
 - Start the engine, check for smoke of lumpiness when running/revving up
 - Poke your nose under the valve cover cap, motors running on cheapskate oil with infrequent changes are sludged up to the hilt and black as the devils heart inside... avoid these rather
 - Delve into the radiator cap and expansion tank, you will be surprised what horrors lie in wait just by doing these two simple tests
 - Check service history (if available)… if not available factor that into negotiations and decide if you willing to take the risk
 - Stick a pool test strip into the rad water, if acidic the head usually already will have excessive corrosion (depending on age) and the coolant has not been replaced regularly, or the head-gasket is leaking....
 - If the deal is too good to be true, it usually IS!
 - Follow your gut and walk away if you must...
 - Sometimes things still go wrong even after your best attempts to avoid a situation, rather try to work something out amicably and if not possible, cut losses and move on and take the lesson to heart for next time. Peace for your soul is always better than war in your heart.
 - If things go wrong, blame yourself (contentious one yes but my motto)... most of the time the mistake could have been avoided with a prudent eye or a second opinion from a trusted friend/colleague. At the end of day you made the decision to fork out the cash...
 - Keep emotion out of it, this is usually where most of us trip up in the hype of a deal and miss glaringly obvious warning signs.
 - For really unseen latent defect there is recourse by law, but this can be a lengthy expensive process which is best to avoid if at all possible, rather engage the offending party.

Hope this can help a few folks, keep faith in humanity, there are still more good okes out there than baddies... :thumleft:

Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Gene on January 30, 2020, 06:24:43 am
Agree 100% with Roxstar, roll up your sleeves and  do your homework.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: ChristoffGS on February 04, 2020, 12:31:14 pm
Spoke to my dad over the weekend (he's from Heidelberg).  'Die oom' who's bike this was actually stays in Witsand (40km from Heidelberg, but still with CEG plates).  He personally told my dad how he had written off his 1200 on a Westcoast trip.  Came over a blind crest with a ditch waiting on the other side.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on February 04, 2020, 12:34:33 pm
Spoke to my dad over the weekend (he's from Heidelberg).  'Die oom' who's bike this was actually stays in Witsand (40km from Heidelberg, but still with CEG plates).  He personally told my dad how he had written off his 1200 on a Westcoast trip.  Came over a blind crest with a ditch waiting on the other side.
Indien dit Eric Stroebel se fiets was het hy ook baie kilos op, ver oor die 100 000. :deal:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: ChristoffGS on February 04, 2020, 12:42:12 pm
Spoke to my dad over the weekend (he's from Heidelberg).  'Die oom' who's bike this was actually stays in Witsand (40km from Heidelberg, but still with CEG plates).  He personally told my dad how he had written off his 1200 on a Westcoast trip.  Came over a blind crest with a ditch waiting on the other side.
Indien dit Eric Stroebel se fiets was het hy ook baie kilos op, ver oor die 100 000. :deal:
Einste
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: eberhard on February 04, 2020, 12:59:36 pm

had written off his 1200 on a Westcoast trip   +  het hy ook baie kilos op, ver oor die 100 000

If this be the case and he sold / sells it with 53 000km on the clock then may the fleas of a thousand camels infest his armpits and may the daughter of Kazan visit him for the rest of his days.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Operator on February 04, 2020, 01:06:44 pm
Wel ek het nuus............................as dit Oom Eric Stroebel van Witsand se fiets is wat in 2016 afgeskryf was.......................daai spesifieke bike was net so blou kleur
maar het BAIE hoë kilometers opgehad.

As ek reg onthou was die kilometers so tussen 210 000 ==> 220 000 km    :patch:


Hierdie thread raak al hoe meer interessant.  :pot:


@Rouxman
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Kortbroek on February 04, 2020, 01:27:07 pm
The Sleuths from the W.I.A. (Wilddogs Intelligence Agency) never ceases to amaze me. ...and this Shaun oke sounds like he wants to take the proestraatpretoria award for the decade.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on February 04, 2020, 02:40:44 pm
Wel ek het nuus............................as dit Oom Eric Stroebel van Witsand se fiets is wat in 2016 afgeskryf was.......................daai spesifieke bike was net so blou kleur
maar het BAIE hoë kilometers opgehad.

As ek reg onthou was die kilometers so tussen 210 000 ==> 220 000 km    :patch:


Hierdie thread raak al hoe meer interessant.  :pot:


@Rouxman

Kan iemand nie by oom Eric daai eng en vin nrs kry nie, hy behoort dit seker nog iewers te he?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Mpandla on February 04, 2020, 02:45:57 pm
From what I have now heard elsewhere about said dealership, the 640 for sale there also has a story. Motor went and now its for sale. Wonder how it was fixed, and if they will tell the new buyer
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Rouxman on February 04, 2020, 02:59:52 pm
Jeeez okes.
Thank you for all the feedback an effort.

There have been some developments however I’ve  just very busy at work lately.
I’ll give this thread some more attention when I return home later this week.

It’ll be great to talk to the “Oom” if it was his bike.

Here’s the reg again.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200204/c0108f99df046957e7106253702cf088.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: charlesvh on February 04, 2020, 03:19:44 pm
Sien hy adverteer nou die fiets as rebuild op faceboek. Maar in baie goeie kondisie.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on February 04, 2020, 03:37:52 pm
Deel vd repairs was seker ander klokke, daarom km nou so laag.

Maar dit beteken ook dat die oom het nooit biek by BMW gehad v dienste nie, anders sou hulel dit opgetel het op computer die km.

Hy het seker bike self gediens of by n buite workshop wat hy ken, daarom het BMW nie rekord vd km nie  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: ChristoffGS on February 04, 2020, 03:53:47 pm
Wel ek het nuus............................as dit Oom Eric Stroebel van Witsand se fiets is wat in 2016 afgeskryf was.......................daai spesifieke bike was net so blou kleur
maar het BAIE hoë kilometers opgehad.

As ek reg onthou was die kilometers so tussen 210 000 ==> 220 000 km    :patch:


Hierdie thread raak al hoe meer interessant.  :pot:


@Rouxman

Kan iemand nie by oom Eric daai eng en vin nrs kry nie, hy behoort dit seker nog iewers te he?  :biggrin:

Sonder die VIN nommer sal ek ook nie my kop op 'n blok kan sit en met 100% sekerheid kan sê dat oom Eric se blou 1200 dieselfde blou 1200 is waarna daar op hierdie thread verwys word nie.  Daar is net soveel blou 1200's op Heidelberg wat op 'n Weskus trip afgeskryf is...  Dit sal baie toevallig wees indien ons nie van dieselfde fiets praat nie.
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: lpj on February 05, 2020, 09:59:59 am
Wel ek het nuus............................as dit Oom Eric Stroebel van Witsand se fiets is wat in 2016 afgeskryf was.......................daai spesifieke bike was net so blou kleur
maar het BAIE hoë kilometers opgehad.

As ek reg onthou was die kilometers so tussen 210 000 ==> 220 000 km    :patch:

@Rouxman

Wat's die issue? Die bike is mos nou eers mooi ingeloop  :lamer:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Maverick on February 06, 2020, 04:53:14 pm
Wat's die issue? Die bike is mos nou eers mooi ingeloop  :lamer:

Lekker inmekaar ingeloop teen 'n boom of iets ja  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Manic on February 06, 2020, 05:30:57 pm
Wat's die issue? Die bike is mos nou eers mooi ingeloop  :lamer:

Lekker inmekaar ingeloop teen 'n boom of iets ja  :peepwall:

na die Oom hom beet gehad het, was dit n compact GS  :imaposer:
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Draadwerk on February 06, 2020, 06:26:58 pm
Nie nice hierdie nie.....
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: Draadwerk on February 07, 2020, 05:46:00 pm
So ons wag vir die terugvoer.....
Title: Re: Lessons learnt in buying a used motorcycle.....from a friend
Post by: DirkB1980 on July 08, 2020, 11:54:20 am
I recently bought my third bike here in SA and it was a huge learning experience. The other two were bought from close friends so no snags. Then I came across an ad for a R1200ST at a great price. The deal looked great. Low mileage, good tyre condition, BMW Panniers and top box, FSH etc, very clean bike. I phoned and it all looked great, then came the issues... I was supposed to drive to JHB to check it out, pay and take possession of the bike that Saturday.

The Thursday the guy phones me, the registration certificate was nowhere to be found. I asked for a copy for my insurance as I was planning to ride it back. Then he tells me that the bike actually belongs to his sister... Alarm bells started ringing... How do I know whose bike it really is? No proof of ownership and he states it doesn't belong to him but he is selling it... Friday morning he calls... Turns out the certificate was still at the bank, they never requested it because they didn't know they have to. So the bike was still registered in the banks name and getting it will take about a month... Well, this happened to me before with a car so it is plausible...

I phone a friend in the SAPS, he does a check on the bike... It's not stolen and it does indeed belong to the guys sister. In the meantime I speak to the sister as well, she gave him the bike to sell, she is lending him the money. I decide to go ahead with the deal but I keep an percentage of the money until the certificate can be produced. I go, pay, take the bike. It looks awesome, rides like a dream. I ask for the spare key and service book, the sister doesn't have it... Says she will look for it and will send it to me.

So I ride it home, awesome bike... I wait a month, certificate comes but no spare key or service book. I phone BMW, yup, bike was serviced regularly so I can buy a service book and build it up again. I get discount for all the issues and decide I just get a key, it's R1000 from BMW. I just had it serviced at Bavarian, zero issues except for the calibration on the power commander being tad out.

Bike is now registered in my name, no I issues, I have a spare key, busy sorting the service history out etc so all in all, it did turn out to be a bargain and a blessing ...

I will NEVER ever take that kind of risk. I did not know about code 3 bikes, this could have been one and I would not have known. So many things could have gone wrong though. I have now learned what questions need to be asked and what needs to be in place before I pay anything.

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk
Title: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: GraZer on October 20, 2020, 10:37:24 am
- deleted
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: chopperpilot on October 20, 2020, 10:43:11 am
It's not the first time his name has come up here on WD.

Now again, for all the wrong reasons.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: JustBendIt on October 20, 2020, 10:43:37 am
Eish ...I am sure we have seen this name Shaun Dickens here before
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: zebra - Flying Brick on October 20, 2020, 10:47:38 am
...ouch!
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?action=search2 (http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?action=search2)
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: RobLH on October 20, 2020, 10:48:03 am
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=244464.0

He’s made an appearance on this forum before. Hope you come right Grazer.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: RobLH on October 20, 2020, 10:50:54 am
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=244345.0

And another, both recent. Sounds like a real box.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Tman21 on October 20, 2020, 11:09:57 am
please add to this post

Whatsapp profile picture, fb profile page screenshot as well as his "business" details.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: GraZer on October 20, 2020, 11:31:25 am
- deleted
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: petri oosthuizen on October 20, 2020, 11:45:10 am
@GraZer

.........Also let the Buyer know about this.

I'm willing to bet my Whole Months salary that Buyer paid this asshole in full, and asshole told you Buyer can only pay in istalments.

Easy to trace Buyer.......just find out who the new Registered Owner is.

If the Natis is still in your name, go and give Notice of Sale......Buyer then MUST register in his name within 21 Days, otherwise the KTM is "in limbo", with you as last registered Owner.

GEE HOM KAK. >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: GraZer on October 20, 2020, 12:09:15 pm
- deleted
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: RobC on October 20, 2020, 12:11:45 pm
Ek sien op FB dat Neil Wolstenholme ook geld geskuld word. :deal:
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: ChristoffGS on October 20, 2020, 12:15:02 pm
Seeing that his name was mentioned numerous times for basically the same reason... how is this guy still doing business???  :dousing:
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: RobC on October 20, 2020, 12:16:52 pm
Seeing that his name was mentioned numerous times for basically the same reason... how is this guy still doing business???  :dousing:
Hulle weet hoe om te duck en dive... hy gee maar min weg op FB profile.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on October 20, 2020, 12:26:13 pm
Seeing that his name was mentioned numerous times for basically the same reason... how is this guy still doing business???  :dousing:
Hulle weet hoe om te duck en dive... hy gee maar min weg op FB profile.
Op n dag skreeu n omie vir n garage eienaar "jy sal my net een maal bedonner!!!" waarop die eienaar antwoord "heel moontlik, maar weet jy hoeveel mense is daar om net een maal te bedonner!!!" ;) :( :o

Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Bliknêrs on October 20, 2020, 12:28:22 pm
Miskien moet die mods hierdie (en die ander waar sy naam opkom!) kombineer sticky te maak. Of rooi of iets
Anders gaan hy nog WD's inloop.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Tony the Boney on October 20, 2020, 12:34:30 pm
 :sip: die naai
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: bud500 on October 20, 2020, 12:45:42 pm
3 threads merged
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on October 20, 2020, 12:56:13 pm
:sip: die naai
Tony jou afrikaans het darem verskriklik verbeter vandat jy Mosselbaai toe getrek het!! ;) :peepwall: :lol8: :lol8:
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Wolzak on October 20, 2020, 01:24:37 pm
:sip: die naai
Tony jou afrikaans het darem verskriklik verbeter vandat jy Mosselbaai toe getrek het!! ;) :peepwall: :lol8: :lol8:
Janee, sies Tony. :lol8:
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Mr D on October 20, 2020, 01:31:05 pm
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/shaun.dickens.56

Just realized the same ou called me saying he had a client wanting to buy my bike when I was selling in August, it didn't feel right so I politely told him to take a hike.

Sorry you got done in Jono and you can use some of the advice offered in your other thread to get your cash back.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Black_Hawk on October 20, 2020, 01:50:25 pm
Lyk my Shaun is 'n regte Dick ens......

Hy het aan die begin van die jaar nog by 'n plek in Bellivlle gewerk as ek reg onthou en nou werk hy weer by 'n plek in die Paarl. Dit gaan my verstand te bowe hoe sulke skelm #ttEr$ so maklik van werk kan verander  >:(
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Dorsland on October 20, 2020, 02:07:05 pm
Verbruikers dra gedeeltelik die skuld daarvoor deur nie sulke skelm bliksems onder 'n soeklig te plaas ope elke openbare verhoog waar hulle kom.  So 'n gewoonte misdadiger hoort saam sy sleg moer soort op 'n "rogue's gallery" fred hier op die forum te kom.  Daar kan hulle jongste werkgewer, besigheid se naam, foto, kontaknommers en eposadresse kortkort opgedateer word. 

Dié skelmstreke raak nou 'n nasionale tydverdryf.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Leibrandt on October 20, 2020, 03:49:46 pm
Miskien moet n paar manne bymekaar kom en hom gaan besoek by sy werkplek en so n bietjie druk op hom plaas
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: GraZer on October 21, 2020, 07:00:07 am
Shaun has now paid what was owed to me. I've deleted all my posts to be fair to him.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: JustBendIt on October 21, 2020, 07:28:39 am
Shaun has now paid what was owed to me. I've deleted all my posts to be fair to him.

That's good to hear but a real pity that he waited until he got a public flogging before he developed a conscience

As the topic heading suggests ...bike sellers beware
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 21, 2020, 07:40:58 am
Verbruikers dra gedeeltelik die skuld daarvoor deur nie sulke skelm bliksems onder 'n soeklig te plaas ope elke openbare verhoog waar hulle kom.  So 'n gewoonte misdadiger hoort saam sy sleg moer soort op 'n "rogue's gallery" fred hier op die forum te kom.  Daar kan hulle jongste werkgewer, besigheid se naam, foto, kontaknommers en eposadresse kortkort opgedateer word. 

Dié skelmstreke raak nou 'n nasionale tydverdryf.

Iets soos die Recce's se "Wall of shame". :deal:
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: BullSmit on October 21, 2020, 07:58:30 am
Shaun has now paid what was owed to me. I've deleted all my posts to be fair to him.

Good for you!!!!

I think you should not have deleted your posts.

He is still a crook as seen on previous occasions. A leopard does not change its spots.

You stated that you were paid, but he will surely take advantage of the next unsuspecting seller.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Black_Hawk on October 21, 2020, 08:38:14 am
I'm glad to hear that you received the money that was owed to you.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: RobC on October 21, 2020, 09:51:47 am
Shaun has now paid what was owed to me. I've deleted all my posts to be fair to him.
Great... I think he was feeling the heat and his present employer was informed as well... he still owes others though.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: punisher on October 21, 2020, 09:59:43 am
I wonder if his wife and kids -family know what a twatwaffle he is
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Grunder on October 21, 2020, 10:06:00 am
I wonder if his wife and kids -family know what a twatwaffle he is

'soort soek soort' most of the time
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Edgar on October 21, 2020, 10:58:20 am
Shaun has now paid what was owed to me. I've deleted all my posts to be fair to him.
Great... I think he was feeling the heat and his present employer was informed as well... he still owes others though.

I agree. I think others should still be warned to tread with caution when dealing with him.  :deal:

Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: bud500 on October 21, 2020, 12:22:53 pm
This thread will remain as is. Hopefully nobody else get taken for a ride....
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: Kuifie on December 11, 2020, 10:14:11 am
Hierdie thread het so complicated geraak dat ek tot die slotsom gekom het dat dit net soveel makliker is om nie BMW te ry nie.
Title: Re: Shaun Dickens - Bike Sellers Beware
Post by: LouisXander on December 13, 2020, 12:16:37 pm
Hierdie thread het so complicated geraak dat ek tot die slotsom gekom het dat dit net soveel makliker is om nie BMW te ry nie.

@2SD, is hierdie jou alter ego?? :imaposer: