Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Riding: Plan, Report and Racing => Racing Section => Topic started by: TheBear on January 14, 2020, 11:32:40 am

Title: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: TheBear on January 14, 2020, 11:32:40 am
It seems it could be more possible than impossible.

https://www.bikesportnews.com/news/news-detail/two-strokes-back-in-motogp-by-2026

https://www.visordown.com/news/racing/motogp/could-motogp-return-two-stroke-engine-formula



Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: iamgigglz on January 14, 2020, 11:41:13 am
That's great! I can only hope the tech trickles through to street-legal machines.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: BLK on January 14, 2020, 11:44:50 am
2026??What a joke.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: OomD on January 14, 2020, 11:57:56 am
That would be fricken awesome!
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: iamgigglz on January 14, 2020, 12:01:46 pm
2026??What a joke.

I'm guessing it has something to do with this:
Quote
However, two-strokes may not have been consigned to the history books just yet as it appears such an engine is being considered for a revival by engineers in Formula 1, which are currently developing the regulations that will form the basis for the next generation engine cycle to begin in 2025.

There's a lot of focus on reducing the massive costs and waste in high-end motorsport, and this restricts how often major technological changes are allowed to happen.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: OomD on January 14, 2020, 12:13:10 pm
It also gives them lots of time to develop and test.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: Dux on January 14, 2020, 12:15:48 pm
Makes one wonder where we would be with two strokes if they had received the same development as four strokes .
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: iamgigglz on January 14, 2020, 12:19:19 pm
Makes one wonder where we would be with two strokes if they had received the same development as four strokes .

They still receive a lot of attention in the motocross world. Direct injection on a 2T was no mean feat.
But no, they don't get nearly as much love as four strokes because cars.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: Cracker on January 14, 2020, 12:29:54 pm
Ag no!!, TheBear, why'd you do that!! .................... now we gonna have 6 years of 2SD wailing like a muezzin from a tower.

I was hoping electric would keep him quiet but now this .......................  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: SuperDavexlv750r on January 14, 2020, 01:27:35 pm
Ag no!!, TheBear, why'd you do that!! .................... now we gonna have 6 years of 2SD wailing like a muezzin from a tower.

I was hoping electric would keep him quiet but now this .......................  :biggrin:

Yes but these are 2 stroke electric motors.  ;D

On and off!  :biggrin:

Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: Rough Rider on January 14, 2020, 01:35:08 pm
I heard that they are thinking about opposed piston 2-strokes for F1

https://www.pitpass.com/66467/F1-looking-at-two-stroke-engine-formula
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: TheBear on January 14, 2020, 02:13:11 pm
Ag no!!, TheBear, why'd you do that!! .................... now we gonna have 6 years of 2SD wailing like a muezzin from a tower.

I was hoping electric would keep him quiet but now this .......................  :biggrin:

Oh no!  I wasn't thinking.  My bad!   :lol8:
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 14, 2020, 08:02:49 pm
 :biggrin: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: fixit on January 14, 2020, 10:50:00 pm
I heard that they are thinking about opposed piston 2-strokes for F1

https://www.pitpass.com/66467/F1-looking-at-two-stroke-engine-formula

Interesting times!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: Mapog on January 18, 2020, 04:04:11 pm
Iamgigglz
You say that direct injection in motorcross was no mean feat?
What, who, when and where are they running such a motor in motorcross?
I only know of fuel injection, but still havent seen any DI in motorbikes.
Only outboards and snowmobiles,that I know of?
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on January 19, 2020, 08:23:32 pm
Indeed no DI in motorcycle engines, I believe they rev too high for DI to keep up, as the air-fuel mixture do not get enough time to mix.

DI works in the low-revving outboard and snowmobile world.

@Dux, the 2stroke engine reached close to it's final development in the 1970's already, with Yamaha's TZ LC racers. There were not that much to improve mechanically on those machines, remarkably.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: Dux on January 19, 2020, 09:58:03 pm
The nice thing with those old designs is that modern technology can give really good power gains  , modern metallurgy and improved manufacturing techniques with tighter tolerances have resulted in better quality pistons , conrod , bearings , so a TZ350G from about 83 can run 4 to 5 times longer than when they were new , of course modern synthetic 2 stroke oils also contribute .
Hydroformed expansion chambers give improved power delivery .
Better cylinder head design gives us better combustion leading to reduced emissions as an added advantage .
Last but not least is electronics with programmable cdi units , we can now custom program ignition curves to suit our application , combined with everything else it is possible to achieve gains of 15 to 20hp  on older design bikes , impressive .
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: dirtyXT on January 20, 2020, 08:51:09 am
 :sip: happy days!
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 01, 2020, 11:40:15 am
I doubt this will ever happen, even though teams are looking at savings in a desperate economy.

Heard that Mercedes Benz is looking at either cutting cost to the bone, or pulling out of F1.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: CliveG on February 01, 2020, 08:26:12 pm

 If this ever happens, the 2 strokes will be nothing like we know.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2020/01/15/red-mist-will-we-see-2-stroke-formula-1-engines-in-the-future/?fbclid=IwAR1i-Is3_zUnmEvwQPIWTCoOjA9Y1qCeT3-lk5LS1lxLu2rfDnebga4mgGI
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 01, 2020, 08:46:32 pm

 If this ever happens, the 2 strokes will be nothing like we know.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2020/01/15/red-mist-will-we-see-2-stroke-formula-1-engines-in-the-future/?fbclid=IwAR1i-Is3_zUnmEvwQPIWTCoOjA9Y1qCeT3-lk5LS1lxLu2rfDnebga4mgGI

The important part will remain unchanged......a power stroke on each revolution. :ricky:

The traditional "expansion chamber" may also be gone, a good thing as it is quite in the way. It does look very good though.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: Dux on February 02, 2020, 10:30:30 am
I doubt this will ever happen, even though teams are looking at savings in a desperate economy.

I think what a lot of us are wanting is. a return to something like the old 500 - 2 strokes , wild , brutal things that took big balls to ride properly , no rider aids like traction control , ABS , etc  .... , I think it was Mamola who referred to them as a loaded gun , in that you had better have it pointed in the right direction before pulling the trigger otherwise it would spit you off . The sad reality is that even the best got spat off
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: jaybiker on February 02, 2020, 01:10:26 pm
The return of two stroke engines should be welcomed of course. But as an option, not as an imposed formula.That's why I take so very little interest these days. Because of that horrible word Homogenisation. In the world of motorbikes, I'm an unapologetic homophobe!

Variety is the spice. Same engine capacity, same fuel, consensus on induction, forced or atmospheric. Otherwise free rein for the designers. One cylinder, two, three, or twenty.
Vertical, horizontal or inverted. Parallel, vee, or radial. Disc valve, reed valve, poppet valve or anything else they can invent. Free choice of tyre manufacturer, ignition/fueling manufacturer etc.

Even two or more completely different machine types within the same team, within the same race, like Guzzi back in the glory days.

Make it interesting again, and I'll become a fan again. Otherwise I'll just dream of how great it was when I first started following, and even before I was born.
Title: Re: Two Strokes back in MotoGP?
Post by: 2StrokeDan on February 02, 2020, 08:40:53 pm
The return of two stroke engines should be welcomed of course. But as an option, not as an imposed formula.That's why I take so very little interest these days. Because of that horrible word Homogenisation. In the world of motorbikes, I'm an unapologetic homophobe!

Variety is the spice. Same engine capacity, same fuel, consensus on induction, forced or atmospheric. Otherwise free rein for the designers. One cylinder, two, three, or twenty.
Vertical, horizontal or inverted. Parallel, vee, or radial. Disc valve, reed valve, poppet valve or anything else they can invent. Free choice of tyre manufacturer, ignition/fueling manufacturer etc.

Even two or more completely different machine types within the same team, within the same race, like Guzzi back in the glory days.

Make it interesting again, and I'll become a fan again. Otherwise I'll just dream of how great it was when I first started following, and even before I was born.

I agree wholeheartedly.