Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Mapog on April 05, 2020, 09:38:52 am

Title: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Mapog on April 05, 2020, 09:38:52 am
I havent been on 2T engined bikes for years. Drove them as a schoolboy were they were dead until breaking loose and bolting.

Read that the 300 is great at low rpm and manageable when it comes into power.

I want to know how the 250X would compare low down? Do they also have the good low down torque and manageable power?

X is a much cheaper option than 300, hence my question?

Just asking out curiosity. Not able to buy now.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Breekbeen on April 05, 2020, 09:40:52 am
Sub

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Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Serf on April 05, 2020, 09:42:47 am
I had a 300 ktm and loved it. Dont know anything about the 250x so cant comment on the differences.

Why dont you compare the 250x to a 250ktm?

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Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: goodtoogo on April 05, 2020, 10:42:12 am
As a sunday warrior get the 300. Us mortals cannot even start  to use a 300,s potential.  Hence it is bullet proof. It has far more talent than we will ever have. Massive overkill in design for amateurs. Interesting fact newer 4 strokes rev higher than the 300 by a longshot. 300 tips out at about 8500 newer 4 strokes anywhere up to 12000. You do the math on the internal loads. Oh and they have valves and chains and other  things that are followed by dollars signs. Make no mistake they are fantastic fun capable .
300 is just do forgiving

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Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: JacoM on April 05, 2020, 11:05:44 am
I had a YZ250 2T (not the X though) before the current 300. I loved the Yamaha simplicity, suspension and kick. However, it had the tendency to kill a plug , especially goiing slowly on a very long, steep downhill. Something to doe with engine character, angle of carb, etc..etc.
Just google and check if this was fixed with the X.
The 300 on the other hand is a purpose built enduro machine. I never had a dead plug ever with it. I work self on my bikes and it still surprise me the level of detail desig that can be found on every seal, clamp, etc.
The 300 xcw is truely an.amazing package
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Solo on April 05, 2020, 11:22:46 am
300xcw, level road, 2nd gear - what would the MINIMUM revs be for clean & swift acceleration?
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Sheepman on April 05, 2020, 11:41:19 am
As a sunday warrior get the 300. Us mortals cannot even start  to use a 300,s potential.  Hence it is bullet proof. It has far more talent than we will ever have. Massive overkill in design for amateurs. Interesting fact newer 4 strokes rev higher than the 300 by a longshot. 300 tips out at about 8500 newer 4 strokes anywhere up to 12000. You do the math on the internal loads. Oh and they have valves and chains and other  things that are followed by dollars signs. Make no mistake they are fantastic fun capable .
300 is just do forgiving

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Agree 100%.There's a good reason why the 300 Katooms are so popular with racers and weekend warriors  ;)
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Rossdog on April 05, 2020, 01:48:55 pm
I've had 2 YZ250 with weighted flywheels, 18" rear rims, reworked suspension, WR gearboxes, etc. Not quite a 250X, but similar.

Advantages of the YZ: Lighter, better suspension IF set up properly.
Advantages of 300: More torque = less stalling, electric start, hydraulic clutch.

For me, it's a no contest; 300 all the way, but I like extreme technical. I suppose though for more flowing stuff like GNCC, the YZ will be better.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 05, 2020, 01:54:40 pm
300xcw, level road, 2nd gear - what would the MINIMUM revs be for clean & swift acceleration?

About 500 rpm. Serious.

Clint Reaper rides a YZ250X, and at our gruelling testing grounds, Nitrobay, [ of in die volksmond, Nietvoorbij ],  he rides all the obstacles on it that the 300's do.

Standing there watching, one can definitely hear that the YZ needs more delicate clutching as the torque low-down is not equal to that of the 300.

That is why the YZX should really be compared to the 250 EWC.

The 300 is in a class of it's own, but only just.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Bill the Bong on April 05, 2020, 10:22:45 pm
My friend's 250X is faster than my 300.  Pulls me 1/2 bike length per gear.  But less stable and the cockpit is tighter/more cramped.  I like the X, if I was smaller I'd have one.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: katana on April 05, 2020, 10:32:05 pm
My friend's 250X is faster than my 300.  Pulls me 1/2 bike length per gear.  But less stable and the cockpit is tighter/more cramped.  I like the X, if I was smaller I'd have one.
Can't you fix that with gearing?   :pot:  The 300 should have the torque.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 05, 2020, 10:44:29 pm
My friend's 250X is faster than my 300.  Pulls me 1/2 bike length per gear.  But less stable and the cockpit is tighter/more cramped.  I like the X, if I was smaller I'd have one.
Can't you fix that with gearing?   :pot:  The 300 should have the torque.

250 revs better, with porting slightly more MX orientated. They are quicker than the 300's.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Mapog on April 06, 2020, 07:55:53 am
So, to go back to my original question, the 250 is more like old type 2Ts that want to rev and no, they dont have the good low down torque?
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Bill the Bong on April 06, 2020, 08:23:14 am
My friend's 250X is faster than my 300.  Pulls me 1/2 bike length per gear.  But less stable and the cockpit is tighter/more cramped.  I like the X, if I was smaller I'd have one.
Can't you fix that with gearing?   :pot:  The 300 should have the torque.
On a 2T its more tricky.  Going from a 13 to 14 CS sprocket makes it too gappy to run a tight sand track.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Bill the Bong on April 06, 2020, 08:25:31 am
So, to go back to my original question, the 250 is more like old type 2Ts that want to rev and no, they dont have the good low down torque?
No.  The only negative to a 250X is the powervalve vent that drips oil on your garage floor.  That is it.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 06, 2020, 08:40:27 am
So, to go back to my original question, the 250 is more like old type 2Ts that want to rev and no, they dont have the good low down torque?
No.  The only negative to a 250X is the powervalve vent that drips oil on your garage floor.  That is it.

From what I have seen in practise, I have to agree. Great bike the X, and well priced.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: LoopSoosStroop on April 06, 2020, 09:33:34 am
Some interesting points on this comparison in the Roof threads last year. One of the comments, the way I read it, was that the KTM's nowadays take much more effort and money to get "Roof Ready" than the YZ250X. This might be more relevant to faster riders than the weekend class. 
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Mapog on April 06, 2020, 10:37:05 am
Bill, dont blame the Yamaha for the Land Rovers leaks....

Ive seen it, that vaalgroen series...
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Mapog on April 06, 2020, 10:38:44 am
 ;)
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Bill the Bong on April 06, 2020, 11:53:18 am
 :lol8:
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 06, 2020, 12:06:37 pm
The X version of the YZ still remains an afterthought.

Yes its got slightly different gearbox, altered port timing and softened MX suspension (not a bad thing at all) but it is still a MX biased platform.  Im not the ave KTM fanboy however flavor of the month is a 300 TPI.

The TPI has an extremely linear power delivery with loads of torque, (think diesel in low range) making it very easy to ride and does not wear you down as easily when things become technical.  Nothing wrong with the YZ 250X but you get what you pay for.  Bad fuel range, rattles like an Isuzu (compared to counter balanced KTM platforms), MX chain guide with bulky design and a kickstarter.  Lack of electronics make adding fan or light slightly more complicated but still very doable.  (Linkage has its advantages but requires more maintenance)

At the end of the day you have to decide what your needs are and how far you can stretch the budget.

Some more reading here:
https://dirtbikemagazine.com/yamaha-yz250x-off-road-2-stroke-full-test/

However if you riding will include idling around in 2nd and 3rd gear the KTM will be a good choice. 
If kickstarting and 60-70Km fuel range wont bother you and you not planning on extreme enduro's the YZ will do a brilliant job too.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 06, 2020, 12:36:52 pm
The X version of the YZ still remains an afterthought.

Yes its got slightly different gearbox, altered port timing and softened MX suspension (not a bad thing at all) but it is still a MX biased platform.  Im not the ave KTM fanboy however flavor of the month is a 300 TPI.

The TPI has an extremely linear power delivery with loads of torque, (think diesel in low range) making it very easy to ride and does not wear you down as easily when things become technical.  Nothing wrong with the YZ 250X but you get what you pay for.  Bad fuel range, rattles like an Isuzu (compared to counter balanced KTM platforms), MX chain guide with bulky design and a kickstarter.  Lack of electronics make adding fan or light slightly more complicated but still very doable.  (Linkage has its advantages but requires more maintenance)

At the end of the day you have to decide what your needs are and how far you can stretch the budget.

Some more reading here:
https://dirtbikemagazine.com/yamaha-yz250x-off-road-2-stroke-full-test/

However if you riding will include idling around in 2nd and 3rd gear the KTM will be a good choice. 
If kickstarting and 60-70Km fuel range wont bother you and you not planning on extreme enduro's the YZ will do a brilliant job too.

I have the old pre-electric start 300, and I would like to upgrade to a e-start.

If pushed I would also choose the 300TPI, just a tad worried about some reliability issues.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Sheepman on April 06, 2020, 12:45:15 pm
The X version of the YZ still remains an afterthought.

Yes its got slightly different gearbox, altered port timing and softened MX suspension (not a bad thing at all) but it is still a MX biased platform.  Im not the ave KTM fanboy however flavor of the month is a 300 TPI.

The TPI has an extremely linear power delivery with loads of torque, (think diesel in low range) making it very easy to ride and does not wear you down as easily when things become technical.  Nothing wrong with the YZ 250X but you get what you pay for.  Bad fuel range, rattles like an Isuzu (compared to counter balanced KTM platforms), MX chain guide with bulky design and a kickstarter.  Lack of electronics make adding fan or light slightly more complicated but still very doable.  (Linkage has its advantages but requires more maintenance)

At the end of the day you have to decide what your needs are and how far you can stretch the budget.

Some more reading here:
https://dirtbikemagazine.com/yamaha-yz250x-off-road-2-stroke-full-test/

However if you riding will include idling around in 2nd and 3rd gear the KTM will be a good choice. 
If kickstarting and 60-70Km fuel range wont bother you and you not planning on extreme enduro's the YZ will do a brilliant job too.

I have the old pre-electric start 300, and I would like to upgrade to a e-start.

If pushed I would also choose the 300TPI, just a tad worried about some reliability issues.

There are no reliability issues. Tman21 has it spot on.....just accept it from people who ride and race the bikes  :thumleft:
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: BuRP on April 06, 2020, 01:22:43 pm
@Mapog ,

You're going to do slow technical stuff and your surname isn't Birch?
300 then, low-rev lugging power and a surprisingly linear 'powerband', the latter not even remotely resembling the 'kick' of old.
If you're going to do fast MX with jumps etc then perhaps the X is for you, but a 300 can do this too I think.
You'll use the clutch a little less on a 300 which makes for a little easier riding.
Plus a 300TPI uses noticeably less fuel than the X when the revs are kept down, probably also on the faster stuff.
Besides all that, a happy button is lekker to have, keep that in mind.
So it basically depends on what you will use it for!  ;)
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Dirt Junkie on April 06, 2020, 01:35:03 pm
300 all day any day and has a large advantage when it comes to selling it in the future
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Rossdog on April 06, 2020, 01:39:50 pm
Some interesting points on this comparison in the Roof threads last year. One of the comments, the way I read it, was that the KTM's nowadays take much more effort and money to get "Roof Ready" than the YZ250X. This might be more relevant to faster riders than the weekend class.

Out of interest, why would you say this? If you weigh more than about 85kg, you will need to work done on the suspensions of both bikes, but the YZ probably has a better standard suspension.

The YZ will need the same after-market protection as the KTM (pipe guard, back plate, hand/lever protectors, etc.). The standard chain guide on the Yamaha needs to be replaced, and as mentioned previously, it is trickier to install a fan, as the YZ has no battery. If I had another YZ, I would also add a linkage guard, which you don't need with a PDS suspension (as on KTM, but not Husky). The KTM also has a big advantage in having an electric leg. Believe me, there are times where you need this.

So in terms of price, the YZ is a winner, but about the same amount of preparation is need to get it race ready.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 06, 2020, 01:45:14 pm
The X version of the YZ still remains an afterthought.

Yes its got slightly different gearbox, altered port timing and softened MX suspension (not a bad thing at all) but it is still a MX biased platform.  Im not the ave KTM fanboy however flavor of the month is a 300 TPI.

The TPI has an extremely linear power delivery with loads of torque, (think diesel in low range) making it very easy to ride and does not wear you down as easily when things become technical.  Nothing wrong with the YZ 250X but you get what you pay for.  Bad fuel range, rattles like an Isuzu (compared to counter balanced KTM platforms), MX chain guide with bulky design and a kickstarter.  Lack of electronics make adding fan or light slightly more complicated but still very doable.  (Linkage has its advantages but requires more maintenance)

At the end of the day you have to decide what your needs are and how far you can stretch the budget.

Some more reading here:
https://dirtbikemagazine.com/yamaha-yz250x-off-road-2-stroke-full-test/

However if you riding will include idling around in 2nd and 3rd gear the KTM will be a good choice. 
If kickstarting and 60-70Km fuel range wont bother you and you not planning on extreme enduro's the YZ will do a brilliant job too.

I have the old pre-electric start 300, and I would like to upgrade to a e-start.

If pushed I would also choose the 300TPI, just a tad worried about some reliability issues.

There are no reliability issues. Tman21 has it spot on.....just accept it from people who ride and race the bikes  :thumleft:

There were a few cases of the "wrong" 2stroke oil used, apparently, and according to E2R the pump cannot move the "thicker" oil, and engine damage resulted.

GJ on this forum lost a main bearing on a fairly new TPI.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 06, 2020, 02:19:34 pm
I was sceptical too at first when it came to TPI so stuck it out with my 4T's untill I felt more comfortable with actual real world reports.
Lots of people who I personally know on 2018 model TPI's with more than 200hrs without even doing the piston or in tank filter but on the other hand lots and lots of bikes that needed new barrels and pistons before 50hrs.

If you want TPI my recommendation is to find a low hour 2019 or go 2020.

If your budget is in the 40-50K area look for a 2014-16 KTM 300.  (I personally feel that 2014 was one of the goodies and for some reason the 2016's were by far the strongest - port timing and ECU upgrades)

And lots and lots of bikes with really high hours that are well kept, so rather go for an older one with lower hours.  There is a mint 2014 model on WD somewhere for 50K which would give years of great service.

On the other hand, a 40-50K wont easily land you with an "X" model as they only started in 2016 and you might find one thats been well used that will still cost you a bit in the near future.

In my experience (As a smouse and nearly 300 KTM's later) a poked 2T motor is the least  of your concerns.  7-10K (labor dependent) for a new motor and countless of hours with peace of mind.  But a tired chassis is what will cost you time, money and joy in the long run.

Well kept, lowest hours regardless of brand.  Both bikes 14+ ktm or YZ250X will be a great upgrade from where you are now.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: AfricaOffroad on April 06, 2020, 08:21:13 pm
Love my Husky 300. Last of the carb models and I prefer the linkage to the PDS system. I will however admit to running YZ forks on it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/c6G40rgj/A28-F9-C35-DEB8-4-F74-9439-FE495471-BAD2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JXyNPNM)
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 06, 2020, 08:29:42 pm
That is a beauty, AfricaOffroad!!
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: AfricaOffroad on April 06, 2020, 08:36:19 pm
Some more pics just for the hell of it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sX7hknc9/13-D935-C3-DFA4-4423-85-A3-DFBE78862508.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r0ysWN7K)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jdngkKVG/FDED4796-E23-A-479-C-B4-EA-BBAA1-D3-A49-DE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5Yk53j4)
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 06, 2020, 09:11:34 pm
Well oiled machine tgat :thumleft:
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Gwilliams on April 08, 2020, 07:32:25 am
Some more pics just for the hell of it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sX7hknc9/13-D935-C3-DFA4-4423-85-A3-DFBE78862508.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r0ysWN7K)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jdngkKVG/FDED4796-E23-A-479-C-B4-EA-BBAA1-D3-A49-DE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5Yk53j4)

And no Vintage Factory Grafix - what gives?
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Rough Rider on April 08, 2020, 11:15:20 am
I personally would kill for a YZ125X

Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: katana on April 08, 2020, 11:31:32 am
Interesting.  I can agree to having a smaller bike building confidence better, but it wouldn't be the last bike I owned.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 08, 2020, 12:00:32 pm
I personally would kill for a YZ125X



What a really great video, except for being a fantastic rider himself, he talks so much sense. So much.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: shark_za on April 08, 2020, 01:38:45 pm
The 2020 300 is all that people say and more. It almost feels tame compared to older bikes until you measure overall average speeds and or compare it to where you used to ride.
Its faster than it feels. Smooth motor and power delivery makes it a winner. Cant compare it to a 250X really.
I'd do roof on my 2014 but would rather enjoy the 2020. There are 4 era's you still see out there, the pre 2011 with no kick start, the 12-16 era, the 17-19 with balancer and now the 2020+
You have to do suspension work on any bike you get out the box.  The 250X can compete against the pre 2011 and maybe be a better choice but its coming second when compared to a 2012+ thats still in good nick.

Kyle Flanagan knows he was at a disadvantage racing against the Sherco and KTM's at the last roof.

Just make sure that you get KTM to fix the leaking power valve cover on a 2020. Older ones did not have this issue.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Roxtar on April 08, 2020, 03:36:10 pm
No comparison, just buy the KTM...… honestly :thumleft:
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 08, 2020, 03:46:42 pm
The 2020 300 is all that people say and more. It almost feels tame compared to older bikes until you measure overall average speeds and or compare it to where you used to ride.
Its faster than it feels. Smooth motor and power delivery makes it a winner. Cant compare it to a 250X really.
I'd do roof on my 2014 but would rather enjoy the 2020. There are 4 era's you still see out there, the pre 2011 with no kick start, the 12-16 era, the 17-19 with balancer and now the 2020+
You have to do suspension work on any bike you get out the box.  The 250X can compete against the pre 2011 and maybe be a better choice but its coming second when compared to a 2012+ thats still in good nick.

Kyle Flanagan knows he was at a disadvantage racing against the Sherco and KTM's at the last roof.

Just make sure that you get KTM to fix the leaking power valve cover on a 2020. Older ones did not have this issue.

2012 falls into the 08+ boat.  Still had the poor starter.

If you want a 300 carb buy the cleanest 13-18 you can find. (yes there are 18 carb models but rather scarce).
If you want a TPI (dont) buy a (18) 19 or 20.

Welcome to take my 19 for a spin if you in or around GP :thumleft:
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Crankshaft on April 08, 2020, 07:21:12 pm
The 2020 300 is all that people say and more. It almost feels tame compared to older bikes until you measure overall average speeds and or compare it to where you used to ride.
Its faster than it feels. Smooth motor and power delivery makes it a winner. Cant compare it to a 250X really.
I'd do roof on my 2014 but would rather enjoy the 2020. There are 4 era's you still see out there, the pre 2011 with no kick start, the 12-16 era, the 17-19 with balancer and now the 2020+
You have to do suspension work on any bike you get out the box.  The 250X can compete against the pre 2011 and maybe be a better choice but its coming second when compared to a 2012+ thats still in good nick.

Kyle Flanagan knows he was at a disadvantage racing against the Sherco and KTM's at the last roof.

Just make sure that you get KTM to fix the leaking power valve cover on a 2020. Older ones did not have this issue.

2012 falls into the 08+ boat.  Still had the poor starter.

If you want a 300 carb buy the cleanest 13-18 you can find. (yes there are 18 carb models but rather scarce).
If you want a TPI (dont) buy a (18) 19 or 20.

Welcome to take my 19 for a spin if you in or around GP :thumleft:

@Tman21 net 'n vraag... hoekom se jy (don't)???  Is daar iets fout met die tpi, of gee hulle probleme met injectors?  Of is dit maar net duur as dit kom by maintenance?    Ek vra maar want ek ry 'n 4T.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 08, 2020, 07:49:24 pm
The 2020 300 is all that people say and more. It almost feels tame compared to older bikes until you measure overall average speeds and or compare it to where you used to ride.
Its faster than it feels. Smooth motor and power delivery makes it a winner. Cant compare it to a 250X really.
I'd do roof on my 2014 but would rather enjoy the 2020. There are 4 era's you still see out there, the pre 2011 with no kick start, the 12-16 era, the 17-19 with balancer and now the 2020+
You have to do suspension work on any bike you get out the box.  The 250X can compete against the pre 2011 and maybe be a better choice but its coming second when compared to a 2012+ thats still in good nick.

Kyle Flanagan knows he was at a disadvantage racing against the Sherco and KTM's at the last roof.

Just make sure that you get KTM to fix the leaking power valve cover on a 2020. Older ones did not have this issue.

2012 falls into the 08+ boat.  Still had the poor starter.

If you want a 300 carb buy the cleanest 13-18 you can find. (yes there are 18 carb models but rather scarce).
If you want a TPI (dont) buy a (18) 19 or 20.

Welcome to take my 19 for a spin if you in or around GP :thumleft:

@Tman21 net 'n vraag... hoekom se jy (don't)???  Is daar iets fout met die tpi, of gee hulle probleme met injectors?  Of is dit maar net duur as dit kom by maintenance?    Ek vra maar want ek ry 'n 4T.

I think he meant to say not to buy a 18 TPI, rather the 19 or 20.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 08, 2020, 07:51:47 pm
Actually, I have a strong hunch that Yamaha may be building the 300 for KTM/Husky, they're that good.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 08, 2020, 08:43:14 pm
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 08, 2020, 09:05:00 pm
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

What is the standard final drive ratio?
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Crankshaft on April 08, 2020, 09:25:05 pm
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

 Cool thanks
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 09, 2020, 07:25:43 am
13:50 Dan
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Dux on April 09, 2020, 07:33:35 am
I had a YZ250 2T (not the X though) before the current 300. I loved the Yamaha simplicity, suspension and kick. However, it had the tendency to kill a plug , especially goiing slowly on a very long, steep downhill. Something to doe with engine character, angle of carb, etc..etc.


This is jetting related , and usually as a result of the float height being too high , when sorted they won’t do this any more
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Dwerg on April 09, 2020, 07:40:50 am
They talk about a whyzee but I think they meant YZ

Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: B.V. on April 09, 2020, 09:08:51 am
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

I bought  the last 2018 carb 300 that KTM Cape Town sold. Luv simplicity. Bike have now 40 hours on. Luv the bike. But the carb is like dog. When you leave it for a week there is a puddle under it. I always close the tap. The 2013 never did it. This being said. The bike is realy fast. Would take the the 250 next. This coming from a roof rider that had about 8 300s.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 09, 2020, 09:37:29 am
Excellent choice, I bought a 2017 and rebuilt it head to toes and had the jetting perfected.

Unfortunately the Shitkini's (carb) as rumors had it was due to the fact that they had planned the entire 2018 range to be TPI and the Keihin deal was not on the table anymore.

A carb is a carb and they are all highly tuneable, I beleive all of them can be perfected with patience.  I sold my 17 300 to a Mechanic and he has not touched the jetting since and started applying these settings to other 17/18 300's that comes through his shop.

Attached are some settings I gathered if it helps:
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 09, 2020, 09:40:16 am
They talk about a whyzee but I think they meant YZ



( I did not watch this video)
Not fond of Mr Brotherson but note that he is comparing the Cross Country version (Read:  Angry snappy but tamed MX bike) to the YZ.  But also need to consider our XCW to XC sales ratio has to be the exact opposite of the states. 
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Dwerg on April 09, 2020, 10:02:19 am
Yeah I don't usually watch his stuff but I remembered that vid from when I was looking for content on the FX.

Still some valid stuff in there though
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 09, 2020, 10:19:14 am
Yeah I don't usually watch his stuff but I remembered that vid from when I was looking for content on the FX.

Still some valid stuff in there though

Absolutely all valid stuff, one of the closest to what I have seen these bikes perform like on the ground.

Here in SA, the Yam is considerably cheaper, but, as the video points out, it misses the Hyd clutch, E-start and then that extra low-end grunt.

I would always like to have a kickstarter on a bike, but the E-start is quite important to have.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 09, 2020, 10:45:33 am
Another review on the X

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ulzvU7WWc0k&feature=youtu.be

Perhaps a 4T but in 600hrs of severe hard Enduro abuse my 2105 Husqvarna 250FE never failed me once and it did not have a kick starter either.

52hrs on the TPI and I have not used the Kickstarter after checking that it works upon delivery.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Sheepman on April 09, 2020, 10:54:37 am
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

I bought  the last 2018 carb 300 that KTM Cape Town sold. Luv simplicity. Bike have now 40 hours on. Luv the bike. But the carb is like dog. When you leave it for a week there is a puddle under it. I always close the tap. The 2013 never did it. This being said. The bike is realy fast. Would take the the 250 next. This coming from a roof rider that had about 8 300s.

Very insightful.I own older 300 's,  a low hour 2011 well kept and a low hour 2013 model ( clearly don't ride enough  :laughing4: ). Strangely, I prefer riding the older bike, although its more sensitive to correct ( or incorrect ) fueling. I am curious as to why you would want to change to a 250.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: plonker on April 09, 2020, 11:51:46 am
I havent been on 2T engined bikes for years. Drove them as a schoolboy were they were dead until breaking loose and bolting.

Read that the 300 is great at low rpm and manageable when it comes into power.

I want to know how the 250X would compare low down? Do they also have the good low down torque and manageable power?

X is a much cheaper option than 300, hence my question?

Just asking out curiosity. Not able to buy now.





So have all the posts answered your question. To me a used 300 KTM without a question for the lower down torque. As a nice weekend play bike and not being so fit I don't want to have to "ride" the bike all day and keep it in the powerband to have fun. I think the 300 will putter putter much more easily than the 250.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 09, 2020, 12:48:25 pm
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

I bought  the last 2018 carb 300 that KTM Cape Town sold. Luv simplicity. Bike have now 40 hours on. Luv the bike. But the carb is like dog. When you leave it for a week there is a puddle under it. I always close the tap. The 2013 never did it. This being said. The bike is realy fast. Would take the the 250 next. This coming from a roof rider that had about 8 300s.

Very insightful.I own older 300 's,  a low hour 2011 well kept and a low hour 2013 model ( clearly don't ride enough  :laughing4: ). Strangely, I prefer riding the older bike, although its more sensitive to correct ( or incorrect ) fueling. I am curious as to why you would want to change to a 250.

If I can add on the 250 vs 300 debate, sticking to the Austrian stable.

Ive been 92 +- 2K for the last several years (dropped some Krismis pudding and sitting pretty at 84 now but thats besides the point) and I have extensively races 200,250,300.

For an extremely long day the 250 does not wear you out as much but in certain situations it will require a tad bit more finesse or skill or else you will be punished.  The 250 is extremely capable (I completed 2014 Silver roof with a 2014 250) but gear selection is way more crucial or else it might punish you.  In a tricky situation where you are idling in 2nd-3rd gear you might get away with using the clutch on the 300 for a ledge whereas on the 250 not so much.  If you are mindful and adapted to the 250 and your square edges arent a problem then you wouldve know to be in 2nd gear even before you reach the obstacle.

Have not had the chance to test 250 vs 300 back to back on TPI platform but from my TPI experience if I was given the opportunity to buy a new bike again I would have to seriously think long and hard to make the choice as the linear power delivery of the TPI is unrivaled at this point in time and im pretty sure that a modern 250 will be able to put down similar torque if not more than previous generation 300's.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Tman21 on April 09, 2020, 12:53:26 pm
Lots of valid opinions on here thus far however if OP can assist with his budget there can be even more insightful feedback.

If I read new YZ 250X  (thinking 90K new without extras) im thinking of around a 100K budget which could very well n a couple of months land Original poster a 2020 TPI model with the arrival of new bikes (if exchange rate does not convince people to hold onto their current models a bit longer).

If we thinking 2nd hand lower bracket 16-18 YZ250X the budget will be closer to 60K and I would then say rather go for a well sorted/kitted 2017 model.

45-50K bracket will land you a really nice 2016 which in my opinion one of the better models ever produced if im making any sense here.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Dwerg on April 09, 2020, 01:07:51 pm
Look let's be honest, if it's your first dirt bike, pretty much anything will do the job better than you can. Don't over think it. Get a budget and buy any good condition enduro bike.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: plonker on April 09, 2020, 03:07:05 pm
Agree with Dwerg. Maybe a KTM 200 for a year would be a great learning platform. Provided bike is well maintained and in good nick don't over think "Just Do It"  :biggrin:
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: 2StrokeDan on April 09, 2020, 05:21:51 pm
Look let's be honest, if it's your first dirt bike, pretty much anything will do the job better than you can. Don't over think it. Get a budget and buy any good condition enduro bike.

This is where the Yamaha is strong, check the price difference between it and the KTM/Husky, it is huge.

And if you do not much care for a E-start and hydraulic clutch, you can spend the R40 000 you save on holidays.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: Mapog on April 09, 2020, 08:13:01 pm
Dont know the current price, but the YZX could be had for 65K beginning last year.
Title: Re: KTM 300 vs Yamaha YZ250X
Post by: B.V. on April 10, 2020, 10:49:12 am
@Crankshaft, yes I should've spelt it out better.

There are 100's of happy 2018 TPI owners, but we cannot ignore the fact that a small percentage of the 1st 2 batches had their problems and the 7 maps released in the same year speaks volumes about it.  Wilst the men in white coats were still scratching their hard hats, the internet jockeys found multiple "solutions" to rectify some issues and or "refine" their bikes.

Idle mods and head skims and different ecu's and fuelling modules and and and originated from multiple IP addresses globally.

Long story short, KTM did not have their mapping 100% sorted as yet and lots of them suffered piston and barrel damage from it as well as all the "solutions" from these crazy tuners. 

In my humble opinion,  chances of finding a clean non fiddled 2018 model is very slim although there were 100's of happy owners without issues. A risk im personally not willing to take hence I waited to buy when there were only 5 2019's left in GP.

52hrs without a hickup with a bone stock bike. I fitted a 51T rear but its personal preference only.

I bought  the last 2018 carb 300 that KTM Cape Town sold. Luv simplicity. Bike have now 40 hours on. Luv the bike. But the carb is like dog. When you leave it for a week there is a puddle under it. I always close the tap. The 2013 never did it. This being said. The bike is realy fast. Would take the the 250 next. This coming from a roof rider that had about 8 300s.

Very insightful.I own older 300 's,  a low hour 2011 well kept and a low hour 2013 model ( clearly don't ride enough  :laughing4: ). Strangely, I prefer riding the older bike, although its more sensitive to correct ( or incorrect ) fueling. I am curious as to why you would want to change to a 250.

If I can add on the 250 vs 300 debate, sticking to the Austrian stable.

Ive been 92 +- 2K for the last several years (dropped some Krismis pudding and sitting pretty at 84 now but thats besides the point) and I have extensively races 200,250,300.

For an extremely long day the 250 does not wear you out as much but in certain situations it will require a tad bit more finesse or skill or else you will be punished.  The 250 is extremely capable (I completed 2014 Silver roof with a 2014 250) but gear selection is way more crucial or else it might punish you.  In a tricky situation where you are idling in 2nd-3rd gear you might get away with using the clutch on the 300 for a ledge whereas on the 250 not so much.  If you are mindful and adapted to the 250 and your square edges arent a problem then you wouldve know to be in 2nd gear even before you reach the obstacle.

Have not had the chance to test 250 vs 300 back to back on TPI platform but from my TPI experience if I was given the opportunity to buy a new bike again I would have to seriously think long and hard to make the choice as the linear power delivery of the TPI is unrivaled at this point in time and im pretty sure that a modern 250 will be able to put down similar torque if not more than previous generation 300's.

Without hijacking the tread. Let me first put it out there. Think Yamaha builds great engines. Charl Moolman do stuff on his Yamaha 250's that is not human. That bike is tuff as nails. Think the question is as Dwerg says. Price and quality first. You can buy second hand lemons. People do not always look after their bikes.

Me looking at the 250 is what Tman21 say. The new bikes are just so much smoother than the older models. Had a 2006 300. That thing was a rocket ship. Terrible bike.Then got a 2007 with e start. What a brilliant bike.Then after that the newer bikes all felt like that. Then rode a new 250. It just felt lighter than my 300.Me getting older and hopefully wiser.It  just felt powerful and smooth enough.