Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: Kaboef on May 19, 2020, 01:28:18 pm

Title: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Kaboef on May 19, 2020, 01:28:18 pm



Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 19, 2020, 03:58:12 pm
RIP Harley.

 >:D
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on May 19, 2020, 04:43:18 pm
205
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: teebag on May 19, 2020, 05:05:32 pm
well presented


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 19, 2020, 05:29:08 pm
I very well remember the dissent in the ranks of Harley fans when HD went EVO, and started their line of yuppy apparel and equipment, leaving the old faithful skollie behind.

I also personally saw the introduction of 700cc Jap bikes to counter the Reagan import tax tariffs, to protect an "American icon".

By me, they will not be missed.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: subie on May 19, 2020, 06:12:51 pm
I love all bikes. Some more than others. For a large group of people this is the bike that they love
and the lifestyle they build around it. Will be sad to see Harley go under. I do not belief they will go under
maybe some changes but just too many fanatical Harley riders around. May they forever be able to ride their Harleys :ricky: :ricky:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on May 19, 2020, 06:47:41 pm
Harley is a viable brand. It will survive.

Might not have the range or all the gizmos but it will survive.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: sidetrack on May 19, 2020, 06:53:38 pm
Rather save and resurrect the air cooled DS thumper
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 19, 2020, 07:21:00 pm
Rather save and resurrect the air cooled DS thumper

That's a big part of Harley's problem, they never had a air cooled Thumper.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Edgar on May 19, 2020, 08:08:15 pm
Okay, I watched the video, and agree with what he is saying. In that case HD already lost the plot in 1969 when Honda introduced the Z50. HD should have countered with a 50cc monkeybike of their own. Imagine how cool that would have been. Plus you get children to buy into HD as a lifestyle, so one day when they grow up they will buy a bigger HD.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: CliveG on May 19, 2020, 09:04:44 pm

Harley did have a 65cc "monkey bike" they also had 50cc bikes, back in 60s and 70s.

https://nationalmcmuseum.org/2019/05/31/1972-harley-davidson-mc-65-shortster/
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 19, 2020, 09:38:21 pm

Harley did have a 65cc "monkey bike" they also had 50cc bikes, back in 60s and 70s.

https://nationalmcmuseum.org/2019/05/31/1972-harley-davidson-mc-65-shortster/

HD missed one great component of the Japanese bikes, reliability. People quickly learnt that you buy a Jap bike because you get real value for your money.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: jaybiker on May 19, 2020, 10:08:44 pm
Don't know if I've ever mentioned it, but I'm not Harley's biggest fan.  :peepwall: However.......

That Live Wire electric jobbie looks good and might well convert me if only.......

That's if only they could halve the size and weight of the battery and halve it's charging time whilst doubling it's range.

But I don't see them doing that in my lifetime so it looks like my prejudice remains intact.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: BuRP on May 20, 2020, 12:52:48 am
Hmmm, more recent news about this....



Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IanTheTooth on May 20, 2020, 02:19:21 am

Harley did have a 65cc "monkey bike" they also had 50cc bikes, back in 60s and 70s.



I remember those Clive. They were sourced from Italy. My first boss offered me the loan of one of the little Italian Harleys one afternoon after I had thrown my 850 away, it was around a 125cc as I remember. The bike wouldn't start, the clutch cable end had mysteriously come undone in the shed and even by the standards of the day it looked like a heap of shit. Just to make it worse I had a big roasty up my arse, ruined a good pair of work trousers and had to catch a bus home. Great times!
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Edgar on May 20, 2020, 07:36:16 am

Harley did have a 65cc "monkey bike" they also had 50cc bikes, back in 60s and 70s.

https://nationalmcmuseum.org/2019/05/31/1972-harley-davidson-mc-65-shortster/

Now that I did not know. Very cool. Thanks
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: tok-tokkie on May 20, 2020, 11:29:47 am
In that initial video I was very interested to learn how the directors massaged the EPS number by buying back shares.  Rising EPS is a coarse measure of how well a company is doing so the rising EPS resulted in rising share price.  Directors got big bonuses tied to the share price performance.  Trouble was they were either squandering the cash reserves or borrowing money to be able to buy back shares.

There is the link to the little 65cc monkey bike.  That came when H-D bought Aermacchi.  I well remember the fabulous 250cc Aermacchi of the early 60s which Harley got.  They then 'Americanised' the styling.  The original was very fast and good handling for its time
(https://mototype.com/pics/5304/small/aermacchi-250-ala-verde-1970.jpg)
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 1ougat on May 20, 2020, 12:22:41 pm
Good video
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: BuRP on May 25, 2020, 09:08:06 am
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: madmax on May 25, 2020, 10:14:55 am
aa hd rider and fan ..hd will outlive trump i reckon... they are big in states , big in many 3rdworld type countries and they are modernising while keeping the old school style and look … minute they re release easyrider in good economy sales will increase..
saying all this i haven't watched the clip yet but will soon … as soon as salt mine allows extra time a bit
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 25, 2020, 12:18:10 pm
aa hd rider and fan ..hd will outlive trump i reckon... they are big in states , big in many 3rdworld type countries and they are modernising while keeping the old school style and look … minute they re release easyrider in good economy sales will increase..
saying all this i haven't watched the clip yet but will soon … as soon as salt mine allows extra time a bit

HD will never disappear, it is, whatever you thinkof the product, an American icon, part of it's history.

Yet, the company should have disappeared several times in it's lifetime, through financial mismanagement, and were propped up by government.

Sounds like SAA.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: madmax on May 26, 2020, 06:05:03 am
they lived through the amf years albeit just i think.. but buyout by staff shows massive belief at the time
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Roxtar on May 27, 2020, 02:09:57 pm
I subscribe to the F9 channel, mostly I tend to agree with Ryans views, also on the Harley topic.... hopefully someone can come in and bail them out before they also belong to an offshore company like so many others ….
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 27, 2020, 02:27:29 pm
Smiled at one Youtube comment; " HD, selling yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices" :imaposer:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: dw1 on May 27, 2020, 07:48:19 pm
It will probably also end up in the hands of the kind people who brought you the Chinese virus.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on May 27, 2020, 10:36:33 pm
It will probably also end up in the hands of the kind people who brought you the Chinese virus.

Or in Bajaj's bed, with BMW and KTM.....

The 3 stooges.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: dw1 on May 27, 2020, 10:46:08 pm
Haha yeah 3 stooges - but you have to give them credit - they can at least produce a bike and distribute it world wide unlike our other one eyed king from the land of the rising sun. :laughing4:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: madmax on May 28, 2020, 07:15:38 am
wed the vids..very interesting .. shows business side us mere mortals never see or think of ..i presume the facts and figures etc are correct and not fake news items … one doesn't know what to say ..i think the strategy to aim at youngsters and bring em in to brand is good ..opening new world wide markets and cheaper manufacturing while not good for yankland maybe is good for rest of world and asia , south America Africa can save them maybe..time and corona and whatever is next in the list will tell..

if hd goes it will be sad ..very sad ..but bimota triumph Norton indian guzzi ducati (endless list i guess) all resurrected on one level or another so who knows
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Guido on August 22, 2020, 02:21:55 am
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-impala/harleys-activist-investor-backs-business-reboot-strategy-idUSKBN25G239?fbclid=IwAR35V5D88mg6MPap3XAhE-0ZFCNKm_9qxPV5qdWZ9ZlyWr2yoPjYDosQzuQ

Seems someone has been put in the driving seat that actually knows the demographic the brand targets.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 22, 2020, 11:39:06 am
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-impala/harleys-activist-investor-backs-business-reboot-strategy-idUSKBN25G239?fbclid=IwAR35V5D88mg6MPap3XAhE-0ZFCNKm_9qxPV5qdWZ9ZlyWr2yoPjYDosQzuQ

Seems someone has been put in the driving seat that actually knows the demographic the brand targets.

Yeah, those predicting the demise were a lil premature. The Harley brand is massively strong. Looking at footage from sturgis and looking at bike nights in my area Harley ain’t dying. It’s a massive appeal brand and huge fan base. 

I believe they have dropped the cafe racer they had shown previously , that’s a pity but understandable.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Odd Dog on August 23, 2020, 07:27:57 am

Harley did have a 65cc "monkey bike" they also had 50cc bikes, back in 60s and 70s.

https://nationalmcmuseum.org/2019/05/31/1972-harley-davidson-mc-65-shortster/

HD missed one great component of the Japanese bikes, reliability. People quickly learnt that you buy a Jap bike because you get real value for your money.

Just like the American car manufacturers, some died and most had massive production drops but survived. You see more Jap cars on their roads these days.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: KiLRoy on August 23, 2020, 08:12:35 am
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Guido on August 23, 2020, 01:45:11 pm
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-harley-davidson-impala/harleys-activist-investor-backs-business-reboot-strategy-idUSKBN25G239?fbclid=IwAR35V5D88mg6MPap3XAhE-0ZFCNKm_9qxPV5qdWZ9ZlyWr2yoPjYDosQzuQ

Seems someone has been put in the driving seat that actually knows the demographic the brand targets.

Yeah, those predicting the demise were a lil premature. The Harley brand is massively strong. Looking at footage from sturgis and looking at bike nights in my area Harley ain’t dying. It’s a massive appeal brand and huge fan base. 

I believe they have dropped the cafe racer they had shown previously , that’s a pity but understandable.

For sure! The Harley following is massive, when you ride in the USA you understand just how big it actually is. Their biggest mistake was trying to target the ‘young’ market with 35-45 000 usd motorcycles, would never work. Harley isn’t going anywhere, I hope the changes made bring them back up to where they should be.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: dw1 on August 23, 2020, 10:31:25 pm
they might not disappear but their heyday is over. Demographics is their death knell. 10000 per day retiring in the USA. The Baby boomer generation who is also HD's main customer base.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Guido on August 24, 2020, 03:27:35 am
they might not disappear but their heyday is over. Demographics is their death knell. 10000 per day retiring in the USA. The Baby boomer generation who is also HD's main customer base.

Retirement has nothing to do with it. The average age of retirement in the USA is slightly under 60 years old, with 64 percent of the population retiring between 55-65. The average age of a Harley Davidson owner in the last few years has been reduced dramatically, 2019 it was 46. Harley Davidson own 50 percent of the American market share. On the path they were a year ago, trying to target a much younger crowd and making the bike affordable to a wider range of the world population I firmly believed as a brand they were history. However, with the new leadership taking over in February, and announcing their plan to reduce production, and cut supply to many parts of the world that do not fit in with the original Big, heavy, expensive Harley Davidson trade mark, i believe the ‘death knell’ is a long way off. The market share will certainly be reduced, but the brand will become more exclusive, and intern more valuable. The other thing people tend to forget, Incase you haven’t been to any american( or even South African dealers to a certain extent)  most dealers in the USA are two story, bikes down stairs, apparel upstairs( or vice versa) in many cases, the apparel section is larger than the bike section, and if you have ever bought a HD t shirt, you will know that you can buy 5 t shirts at many other shops for the same price as one Hd t shirt, they are crazy expensive, but they still sell out. The brand as a whole is about far more than the motorcycle, it’s about the lifestyle, which fits perfectly into the history of the American dream, which even a new age 14 year old understands.
I work in a country with a very new Hd following, shop has been open for 5 years, closed a few times in between, this is a photo taken a few sundays ago, this is what an average Sunday ride looks like, bearing in mind vehicle tax here is 75 percent you are looking at two to three times the price of a new HD in SA, let’s say in rand terms around R 800 000-1400 000 a bike. Show me another brand that comes close.


Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 24, 2020, 07:37:55 am
Guido, the problem with reirees in America, currently, is that they retire poor.

Many Americans is something like 400usd from bancruptcy, and do not have the money for new bikes.

Harley rode the wave of success, and made the mistake of branding itself as exclusive.

I believe that you can only fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but never all, all the time.

This was Harley's problem, literally jazzing up old and not-that-well-built products as premium and expensive vehicles.

But, they'll get bailed once again, and continue to lumber down our roads.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Guido on August 24, 2020, 08:08:03 am
Guido, the problem with reirees in America, currently, is that they retire poor.

Many Americans is something like 400usd from bancruptcy, and do not have the money for new bikes.

Harley rode the wave of success, and made the mistake of branding itself as exclusive.

I believe that you can only fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time, but never all, all the time.

This was Harley's problem, literally jazzing up old and not-that-well-built products as premium and expensive vehicles.

But, they'll get bailed once again, and continue to lumber down our roads.

I agree with you entirely Dan, the reason for this is most house holds live in debt their entire lives, because credit is very easy to get, even with a fairly poor income,  reduce production and supply to many parts of the world and make the brand more exclusive. I don’t think they have fooled anybody. I agree with the statement  ‘ not that well built’ for the entry level sportsters etc, which are not entirely  manufactured in the USA , parts etc for these bikes are largely manufactured in Asia as a result of the reduced labor cost, This comes with a penalty being quality, because they are there to target the budget market, however, once you get to the big touring bikes, which are manufactured entirely in America, they are far superior quality wise to most dual sport bikes I have owned( KTM,BMW, HONDA) but that comes at a serious cost, if you use SA as an example, a new HD touring bike will set you back R400-500 000.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: KiLRoy on August 24, 2020, 08:12:00 am
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Guido on August 24, 2020, 08:56:24 am
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?

That is pretty difficult to explain, because it only really exists in small doses in South Africa. When life is back to normal, take a drive past your local Hd early on a Saturday/ Sunday morning and you will get the idea. 
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Wild Hearted Son on August 24, 2020, 09:19:03 am
... once you get to the big touring bikes, which are manufactured entirely in America

Entirely assembled maybe , not manufactured  - go & look at,  just as a quick example,  the forks , brakes & shocks on your Road Glide
My Ultra has Showa forks & rear shocks & Brembo brakes.
I'm happy with that & they are recognised international quality brands.

Probably the only bikes manufactured entirely in 1 particular country are Japanese bikes
Why re-invent the wheel ?

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 24, 2020, 09:32:44 am
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?

if we have to explain........
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Grrrr.... on August 24, 2020, 02:08:41 pm
well presented

That has to be one of the premium motorcycle channels on Youtube at the moment. The host is an engineer, so some of his videos where he explains things to dumb twassholes like me still fly over my head.

They do amazing content.

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Challa on August 24, 2020, 02:16:53 pm
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?

if we have to explain........

Nee dis maklik... Dis grown-ass men wat tosseltjies en leer handsakkies vir hulle bikes koop.

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Wayne on August 24, 2020, 02:28:53 pm
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?

if we have to explain........

Nee dis maklik... Dis grown-ass men wat tosseltjies en leer handsakkies vir hulle bikes koop.

 ::)
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 24, 2020, 02:38:30 pm
What is this ‘lifestyle’ they are selling?  I never quite got it?

if we have to explain........

Nee dis maklik... Dis grown-ass men wat tosseltjies en leer handsakkies vir hulle bikes koop.

 :biggrin:

You should get in touch with your cowboy side.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Challa on August 24, 2020, 02:41:05 pm
Ek gaan vreet eerder Donfords se muffins op.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on August 24, 2020, 06:41:54 pm
Ek gaan vreet eerder Donfords se muffins op.

Nee o donner...... :eek7:

Ek hoop nie ek word ooit met n pistool voor n keuse gestel; "Motorrad" of Harley"........
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Offshore on August 24, 2020, 09:09:21 pm
Ek gaan vreet eerder Donfords se muffins op.
Judging by your Profile Pic, you have sinned Brother.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Challa on August 24, 2020, 09:44:17 pm
Ek gaan vreet eerder Donfords se muffins op.
Judging by your Profile Pic, you have sinned Brother.

I bought a BMW from Donford nogal, without a complimentary muffin!
Sucker for punishment...
 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: KiLRoy on August 25, 2020, 08:15:50 am
This lifestyle thing sounds like a whole big pretending thing to be.  Buying expensive bikes and village people gear to go pretend you are a hardcore outlaw biker.

I guess thats what Danie has against the BMW lifestyle too.  Expensive bikes and twatsuits for people pretending to be hardcore adventure riders?  Ironically KTM is picking up on this genre - ready to race orange expensive gear with a spray on Brad Binder tat to cement the thought.  Kind of like the yamahas sold with a VR46 shaped butt plug... :imaposer:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Grrrr.... on August 25, 2020, 10:16:54 am
Ironically KTM is picking up on this genre - ready to race orange expensive gear with a spray on Brad Binder tat to cement the thought.

Remember the toaster.

A fucking toaster!

I mean, I have KTM gloves, T-shirt, jacket, buff... but I draw the line at owning a fucking branded KTM toaster. If you own a KTM toaster I label you the same as people who stick the Apple sticker he got with his Ipad on the back of their cars, you KTM toaster okes and the Apple morons are equal twatwaffles in my eyes.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Roxtar on August 25, 2020, 10:32:19 am
Live and let live chaps... as long as more people ride life is all good.... :biggrin: :thumleft:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 25, 2020, 10:39:39 am
Live and let live chaps... as long as more people ride life is all good.... :biggrin: :thumleft:

thats the biking ethos....
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Wayne on August 25, 2020, 12:39:49 pm
Live and let live chaps... as long as more people ride life is all good.... :thumleft:
Best post on the whole thread.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Wild Hearted Son on August 25, 2020, 01:41:40 pm
Live and let live chaps... as long as more people ride life is all good.... :biggrin: :thumleft:

Yes, but are they assless chaps ???  ;D
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Grrrr.... on August 25, 2020, 02:02:22 pm
Live and let live chaps... as long as more people ride life is all good.... :biggrin: :thumleft:

Jy het 'n fokken toaster, ne?!
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: BuRP on August 25, 2020, 02:06:40 pm
Jy het 'n fokken toaster, ne?!

Ek moet bier Grrrr.... nee, nog nie.
Maar, ek het nie geweet hulle het eene, n oranje een nogals (ek neem so aan?), so here's to hoping ek sal dit onthou die volgende keer as ek weer by KTM instap: Promise!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Bill the Bong on August 26, 2020, 08:36:43 am
Ironically KTM is picking up on this genre - ready to race orange expensive gear with a spray on Brad Binder tat to cement the thought.

Remember the toaster.

A fucking toaster!

I mean, I have KTM gloves, T-shirt, jacket, buff... but I draw the line at owning a fucking branded KTM toaster. If you own a KTM toaster I label you the same as people who stick the Apple sticker he got with his Ipad on the back of their cars, you KTM toaster okes and the Apple morons are equal twatwaffles in my eyes.

I'm sort of embarrassed that I use an iPhone.  To me it signifies that the user is not clever enough to use an android device.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: OomD on August 26, 2020, 08:42:40 am
Ironically KTM is picking up on this genre - ready to race orange expensive gear with a spray on Brad Binder tat to cement the thought.

Remember the toaster.

A fucking toaster!

I mean, I have KTM gloves, T-shirt, jacket, buff... but I draw the line at owning a fucking branded KTM toaster. If you own a KTM toaster I label you the same as people who stick the Apple sticker he got with his Ipad on the back of their cars, you KTM toaster okes and the Apple morons are equal twatwaffles in my eyes.

I'm sort of embarrassed that I use an iPhone.  To me it signifies that the user is not clever enough to use an android device.
I also use an iPhone, and not embarrassed at all. To me it signifies that the user has opted to appreciate the good things in life. ;)
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Bensien on August 26, 2020, 09:19:44 am
Ironically KTM is picking up on this genre - ready to race orange expensive gear with a spray on Brad Binder tat to cement the thought.

Remember the toaster.

A fucking toaster!

I mean, I have KTM gloves, T-shirt, jacket, buff... but I draw the line at owning a fucking branded KTM toaster. If you own a KTM toaster I label you the same as people who stick the Apple sticker he got with his Ipad on the back of their cars, you KTM toaster okes and the Apple morons are equal twatwaffles in my eyes.

I have a KTM toaster. as well as a tent, chair, mug, dogfood bowl, rubber duck and  and a cuckoo clock with a little man on a KTM popping out and revving its engine on the hour. Also KTM stickers on just about everything I own. I've never denied the fact that I'm a moron and a twatwaffle, I've embraced it.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: ETS on August 26, 2020, 09:22:59 am
Ironically KTM is picking up on this genre - ready to race orange expensive gear with a spray on Brad Binder tat to cement the thought.

Remember the toaster.

A fucking toaster!

I mean, I have KTM gloves, T-shirt, jacket, buff... but I draw the line at owning a fucking branded KTM toaster. If you own a KTM toaster I label you the same as people who stick the Apple sticker he got with his Ipad on the back of their cars, you KTM toaster okes and the Apple morons are equal twatwaffles in my eyes.

I have a KTM toaster. as well as a tent, chair, mug, dogfood bowl, rubber duck and  and a cuckoo clock with a little man on a KTM popping out and revving its engine on the hour. Also KTM stickers on just about everything I own. I've never denied the fact that I'm a moron and a twatwaffle, I've embraced it.

Makes 2 of us Ben. I have a KTM doormat and bottle opener as well :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: BuRP on August 26, 2020, 10:27:47 am
I have a KTM ..... rubber duck

 :-\
I only now realize they have this.... and I don't!
Shit, will have to have a better look next time, I thought my gumboots (which I have filthened up to "Wuss" already!   :3some: ) were very suited for in my bathroom - and don't judge me here please, I have a very sensitive and tender personality.
That clock sounds awesome btw, will start saving for it as from now!  :thumleft:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 26, 2020, 01:11:34 pm
Seems Harley could learn bout lifestyle from KTM
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Bensien on August 26, 2020, 02:40:30 pm
Seems Harley could learn bout lifestyle from KTM

The difference is that that KTM isn’t trying to sell a lifestyle or a degree of exclusivity. Their biking wear is good quality and competitively priced with other high end brands ,  while the wrist watches, wallets, sunglasses etc. are similar to what many other automotive brands sell  The other goods are mostly fun items, intended to bring a smile and not aimed at pretentious people with sophisticated tastes.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on August 26, 2020, 03:18:24 pm
Seems Harley could learn bout lifestyle from KTM

The difference is that that KTM isn’t trying to sell a lifestyle or a degree of exclusivity. Their biking wear is good quality and competitively priced with other high end brands ,  while the wrist watches, wallets, sunglasses etc. are similar to what many other automotive brands sell  The other goods are mostly fun items, intended to bring a smile and not aimed at pretentious people with sophisticated tastes.

I think you are being a romantic. There is no difference. Both are motivated by lucre.

But on a Harley you have heritage an a sweet history. I don’t see no biker gangs in flieks on their ktm s cod they all at home making soggy toast circles.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Grunder on August 26, 2020, 03:52:46 pm
Ek gaan vreet eerder Donfords se muffins op.

Nee o donner...... :eek7:

Ek hoop nie ek word ooit met n pistool voor n keuse gestel; "Motorrad" of Harley"........

 :lol8:
Laat my dink aan 'n grappie.

Man stap bar toe nadat hy uit die badkamer kom. 
Barman: Hoekom is jy so bleek?
Man: Ek was besig om te pee toe druk 'n man 'n pistool teen my kop en sê ek moet hom 'n blowjob gee of hy skiet my kop af.
Barman:  En? Wat het jy gemaak?
Man: Wel, jy het nie 'n skoot gehoor nie het jy?

   :pot:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Grunder on August 26, 2020, 03:54:24 pm
Ironically KTM is picking up on this genre - ready to race orange expensive gear with a spray on Brad Binder tat to cement the thought.

Remember the toaster.

A fucking toaster!

I mean, I have KTM gloves, T-shirt, jacket, buff... but I draw the line at owning a fucking branded KTM toaster. If you own a KTM toaster I label you the same as people who stick the Apple sticker he got with his Ipad on the back of their cars, you KTM toaster okes and the Apple morons are equal twatwaffles in my eyes.

I have a KTM toaster. as well as a tent, chair, mug, dogfood bowl, rubber duck and  and a cuckoo clock with a little man on a KTM popping out and revving its engine on the hour. Also KTM stickers on just about everything I own. I've never denied the fact that I'm a moron and a twatwaffle, I've embraced it.

Makes 2 of us Ben. I have a KTM doormat and bottle opener as well :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:

http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=250651.0   :deal:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Odd Dog on August 26, 2020, 04:49:49 pm
Seems Harley could learn bout lifestyle from KTM

The difference is that that KTM isn’t trying to sell a lifestyle or a degree of exclusivity. Their biking wear is good quality and competitively priced with other high end brands ,  while the wrist watches, wallets, sunglasses etc. are similar to what many other automotive brands sell  The other goods are mostly fun items, intended to bring a smile and not aimed at pretentious people with sophisticated tastes.

I think you are being a romantic. There is no difference. Both are motivated by lucre.

But on a Harley you have heritage an a sweet history. I don’t see no biker gangs in flieks on their ktm s cod they all at home making soggy toast circles.

And getting ready to race.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: BuRP on August 26, 2020, 10:00:06 pm
http://www.wilddog.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=250651.0   :deal:

Hey @Grrrr.... , wanneer verjaar jy?
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: madmax on August 31, 2020, 09:45:50 am
i used to love wearing my hd store tshirts while riding my gs … made people wonder a bit it seems
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: heinzz on August 31, 2020, 12:32:41 pm
i used to love wearing my hd store tshirts while riding my gs … made people wonder a bit it seems

More often than not I am wearing my HD helmet when riding my GS. In town most of the time. :thumleft:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Roxtar on September 01, 2020, 01:40:58 pm
Must say I have ridden quite a few Harleys... never been impressed because all the Heritage seems to be giving these last few years is shoddy brakes, rubbish handling, pathetic performance and poor workmanship with overinflated pricing in an era where there is no excuse anymore.... Then I rode the Indians.... loved the Scout.... stonking motor, and just felt right in all areas....  :thumleft:

Make no mistake I like Harley... but their product has been poor for quite a few years now... :-[ :(
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: madmax on September 02, 2020, 07:04:36 am
Must say I have ridden quite a few Harleys... never been impressed because all the Heritage seems to be giving these last few years is shoddy brakes, rubbish handling, pathetic performance and poor workmanship with overinflated pricing in an era where there is no excuse anymore.... Then I rode the Indians.... loved the Scout.... stonking motor, and just felt right in all areas....  :thumleft:

Make no mistake I like Harley... but their product has been poor for quite a few years now... :-[ :(
im quite happy with my ultra..had to turf back shocks though..2013 model... and my 98 softail i love with passion
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: madmax on September 02, 2020, 07:05:13 am
Must say I have ridden quite a few Harleys... never been impressed because all the Heritage seems to be giving these last few years is shoddy brakes, rubbish handling, pathetic performance and poor workmanship with overinflated pricing in an era where there is no excuse anymore.... Then I rode the Indians.... loved the Scout.... stonking motor, and just felt right in all areas....  :thumleft:

Make no mistake I like Harley... but their product has been poor for quite a few years now... :-[ :(
do look at Indians with long eyes but my ship just wont come in
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Roxtar on September 02, 2020, 02:43:37 pm
Must say I have ridden quite a few Harleys... never been impressed because all the Heritage seems to be giving these last few years is shoddy brakes, rubbish handling, pathetic performance and poor workmanship with overinflated pricing in an era where there is no excuse anymore.... Then I rode the Indians.... loved the Scout.... stonking motor, and just felt right in all areas....  :thumleft:

Make no mistake I like Harley... but their product has been poor for quite a few years now... :-[ :(
do look at Indians with long eyes but my ship just wont come in

Agree Max....I see Indian are starting to get seriously into racing in the US... back to their roots it seems.... built a factory bike for hill-climbing with a factory backed team :thumleft:

Harley needs to take a leaf from Indian...  ;)
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: sidetrack on September 07, 2020, 02:39:19 pm
HD 338 to be built in China leaked. Don't think this model will go down well with the tassel and chrome gang

https://advrider.com/harley-davidson-338r-image-leaked/
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: chicco on September 25, 2020, 03:15:34 pm
A follow up video.

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Fuzzy Muzzy on September 28, 2020, 09:52:46 am
Harley is a viable brand. It will survive.

Might not have the range or all the gizmos but it will survive.

I think if they retreat like this then they will stand a chance..

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/25/business/harley-davidson-india-exit/index.html
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on September 28, 2020, 10:41:46 am
Harley is a viable brand. It will survive.

Might not have the range or all the gizmos but it will survive.

I think if they retreat like this then they will stand a chance..

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/25/business/harley-davidson-india-exit/index.html

I agree. India was a crap market for HD. It’s a hero Honda type market not a Harley market. In time it will be though.

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 02, 2020, 01:07:44 pm
Apparently according to motoring scribes Harley will No longer bring the sportster range to Europe from2021 due to euro 5 emissions coming into play. The sportster is a big seller an is a “gateway “ Harley.

Hope they working on a liquid cooled motor for a new sportster range. We wait n see.

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Wayne on October 02, 2020, 07:28:37 pm
Apparently according to motoring scribes Harley will I longer bring the sportster range to Europe from2021 due to euro 5 emissions coming into play. The sportster is a big seller an is a “gateway “ Harley.

Hope they working on a liquid cooled motor for a new sportster range. We wait n see.

This might apparently be the replacement.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: BuRP on October 18, 2020, 08:48:01 pm
"Tradition" seems to be a bastid.....

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 18, 2020, 09:46:26 pm
"Tradition" seems to be a bastid.....



Not really. The Indian makes more power , a lot more, but where does it make that power?

Harley afaik easily outsells Indian in spite of,

Traidition is what sells Harley, it’s what the motor company is built on.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: GhostSixFour on October 19, 2020, 08:03:52 am
"Tradition" seems to be a bastid.....



Not really. The Indian makes more power , a lot more, but where does it make that power?

Harley afaik easily outsells Indian in spite of,

Traidition is what sells Harley, it’s what the motor company is built on.

AFAIK in terms of numbers Harley is outselling Indian and a lot of other brands, but Harley sales keep falling quarter after quarter, whereas other brands are growing.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: sidetrack on October 19, 2020, 10:32:21 am
Harley is a viable brand. It will survive.

Might not have the range or all the gizmos but it will survive.

I think if they retreat like this then they will stand a chance..

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/25/business/harley-davidson-india-exit/index.html

I agree. India was a crap market for HD. It’s a hero Honda type market not a Harley market. In time it will be though.

https://advrider.com/harley-davidson-working-on-indian-market-deal/

"I can see it now... a video of a 125cc Shenzangquingdongshau, scraping the oil sump along the ground carrying a small family and their broken Harley strapped across the luggage rack."  :lol8:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Neo_za on October 19, 2020, 10:58:34 am
Think Harley must take the leap and go full out for electric non-cruiser bikes of various sizes and applications, that leans (a bit) to the premium side in terms of technology, quality and durability to set itself apart from electric offerings of other makes. A BMW of the electric bike world, so to speak.

That would also attract a new (younger) type of customer with whom they can hopefully build a growing relationship.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 19, 2020, 11:07:58 am

AFAIK in terms of numbers Harley is outselling Indian and a lot of other brands, but Harley sales keep falling quarter after quarter, whereas other brands are growing.

All the brands taking strain currently.

Think one should compare Harley to other brands that focus on the cruiser market. indian, Victory etc.

Indian was once the biggest selling motorcycle brand in the world iirc...  and they had a sales plummet in latter half of the 2010's thus a low base to start off. I certianly think they probably appeal more to the younger market with the eyes on horsepower etc.. Their engines are infintely better than harleys when viewed from the absolute performance aspect and their bikes look cool...lets not beat about the bush on this.

Harley went into hyperdrive and built this huge empire from which there was only one way to go really and the new CEO is trying to turn that around...

Harley is absolutely a lifestyle, one i dont necessairly subscribe too but its undeniable and when i go to my local dealer ppl go there to socialise with other owners, its a meeting point, a social point where like minded folks get together for no oterh reason but to be there... harley may go bang in its current format, but the brand is powerful and osmeone will come along and buy it an keep it going in a trimmed version, the brand loyalty is probably more so than any other brand, this you cannot put a number on.

I shmaak my roadster, it gets the thumbs up from ppl and the pretty girls... its a piece of crap in motorcycle techno terms and its cumbersome and goes like a john deere, but maybe thats the allure...

67 bhp from 1202 cc is pathetic, but it makes me grin...thats what it is about
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Roxtar on October 20, 2020, 03:09:50 pm

I shmaak my roadster, it gets the thumbs up from ppl and the pretty girls... its a piece of crap in motorcycle techno terms and its cumbersome and goes like a john deere, but maybe thats the allure...

67 bhp from 1202 cc is pathetic, but it makes me grin...thats what it is about

True 1st comment... ;)

and 2nd comment  is what riding is all about.... :thumleft:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 22, 2020, 05:21:28 pm
Just got my harley back from Guildford Harley. It is under warranty so took to agents.

112 pounds an hour labour, thats 2400 ZA ront ...every hour... farking hell and i did not even have a free coffee cos coffee bar is closed due to c 19 shite
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: sidetrack on October 22, 2020, 06:38:55 pm

AFAIK in terms of numbers Harley is outselling Indian and a lot of other brands, but Harley sales keep falling quarter after quarter, whereas other brands are growing.

All the brands taking strain currently.

Think one should compare Harley to other brands that focus on the cruiser market. indian, Victory etc.

Indian was once the biggest selling motorcycle brand in the world iirc...  and they had a sales plummet in latter half of the 2010's thus a low base to start off. I certianly think they probably appeal more to the younger market with the eyes on horsepower etc.. Their engines are infintely better than harleys when viewed from the absolute performance aspect and their bikes look cool...lets not beat about the bush on this.

Harley went into hyperdrive and built this huge empire from which there was only one way to go really and the new CEO is trying to turn that around...

Harley is absolutely a lifestyle, one i dont necessairly subscribe too but its undeniable and when i go to my local dealer ppl go there to socialise with other owners, its a meeting point, a social point where like minded folks get together for no oterh reason but to be there... harley may go bang in its current format, but the brand is powerful and osmeone will come along and buy it an keep it going in a trimmed version, the brand loyalty is probably more so than any other brand, this you cannot put a number on.

I shmaak my roadster, it gets the thumbs up from ppl and the pretty girls... its a piece of crap in motorcycle techno terms and its cumbersome and goes like a john deere, but maybe thats the allure...

67 bhp from 1202 cc is pathetic, but it makes me grin...thats what it is about
Get some Screaming Eagle parts and push that bad boy to 70hp  >:D
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 28, 2020, 07:05:33 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/27/21536726/harley-davidson-serial-1-electric-bike-ebike-specs-price

Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Offshore on October 28, 2020, 08:39:37 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/27/21536726/harley-davidson-serial-1-electric-bike-ebike-specs-price
Pure HD, farking love it, Hell Yes.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: BuRP on October 28, 2020, 09:04:21 pm
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/27/21536726/harley-davidson-serial-1-electric-bike-ebike-specs-price

Well, Charlie & Ewan are in for a surprise I reckon?
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: OomD on October 29, 2020, 07:57:14 am
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/27/21536726/harley-davidson-serial-1-electric-bike-ebike-specs-price
Are the pedals for manual charging?  :lol8:

Beautiful. :thumleft:
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: 2StrokeDan on October 29, 2020, 08:14:53 am
Good luck to Harley, but they'll find themselves in a strange pond filled to the brim with competing fish.

Their motorcycles used to sell on everything but good value, so let us see how they shape in this market.
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: Altie7deLaan on October 30, 2020, 07:32:44 am
this looks like fun....


Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: chicco on October 30, 2020, 07:47:29 am
 ;D
Title: Re: How Harley-Davidson Killed Itself
Post by: sidetrack on November 17, 2020, 03:10:38 pm
So only Yamaha and Indian left in AMA Flat Track .....

https://advrider.com/harley-davidson-axes-two-factory-racing-programs/