Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: blitzer on June 30, 2020, 03:48:54 pm

Title: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on June 30, 2020, 03:48:54 pm
Ok the manual specifications i got from the internet (still not sure if this is applies to the 2010 cbr 125 r)
But i guess i have to assume it does:

https://www.manualslib.com/download/1244336/Honda-Cbr125r.html

That manual states that i need either of the below choices, sorry if i might sound like an idiot but the options confuse me they seem to say basically the same thing except the one says "if it shows energy conserving on the label don't use it" ?? or am i understanding it incorrectly.

Second i called all the auto parts stores in my area and they say they do not have 10W /30 oil.
They only have 10W /40 oil.

So now what ? Now where can i find that people are using 10W /40 oil in this bike ?

Manual states:
Engine oil capacity At draining 1.0 liter (1.1 US qt, 0.9 lmp qt)
At disassembly 1.3 liters (1.4 US qt, 1.1 lmp qt)

Recommended engine oil Except CM type Honda "4-stroke motorcycle oil" or an
equivalent
API classification: SG or higher (except
oils labeled as energy conserving on
the circular API service label)
JASO T 903 standard: MA
Viscosity: SAE 10W-30


--------------------------------------------------------


CM type only Pro Honda GN4 4-stroke oil or equivalent motor oil
API service classification: SG or Higher
JASO T 903 standard: MA
Viscosity: SAE 10W-30

Oil pump rotor Tip clearance 0.15 (0.006)
Body clearance 0.15 0.21 (0.006 0.008) 0.26 (0.010)
Side clearance 0.05 0.10 (0.002 0.004) 0.12 (0.005)



Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: LouisXander on June 30, 2020, 04:03:34 pm
Get Motul, they'll have for bikes, but in 10w40/50 range, I run my son's XR125 on 20w50.

But get bike oil as the clutch runs in the same oil too
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: sidetrack on June 30, 2020, 05:03:14 pm
My lawn mower also specifies 10/30 and I could only get 10/40 so then I left it as I did not want to damage the motor. I heard it is half of a CBR125 motor Honda uses in their garden care range. Next time I split the motor and re use the crankcase gasket I will check to see why it does not shift nicely when going from the tortoise to the hare picture on the handlebars.I think the clutch is broken somehow.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: JIMMI on June 30, 2020, 05:11:22 pm
You can use Shell Helix HX3  or  HX5 .  Both oils are clutch friendly.  However if your clutch is suspect i would rather use a motorbike specific oil like Motul 4T 10W40
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: BuRP on June 30, 2020, 06:13:21 pm
So, prescribed is a 10W30 oil.
That's a bitofafunny viscosity range, but if you find it then good for you.
I'd not even go look for it but would put Shell Helix Ultra (the grey tin) in, a 10W40 full synthetic oil, indeed without friction-modifiers hence clutch friendly.
It's a high spec oil, available around also your corner, purrrfect for the bike  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Edgar on June 30, 2020, 08:02:00 pm
Before all the questions, post n picture of your bike >:D  let's see!!!
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Roadhawg on June 30, 2020, 08:24:57 pm
Honestly, Id just use a bike specific oil. Almost any of the bike oils of the right viscosity (10w40 is close enough) will beat an SG spec.

As much as the esteemed gents above have said those Shell products are clutch friendly, there is nothing in the Data Sheets that prove  that, so Id stick with something with a JASO MA or MA2 rating.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on July 01, 2020, 07:44:00 am
Thanks, i guess i am still not sure now..... Where can i get bike specific oil ? Only at a bike dealership ?
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Roadhawg on July 01, 2020, 08:33:31 am
Thanks, i guess i am still not sure now..... Where can i get bike specific oil ? Only at a bike dealership ?

Any bike spares/accesory shop.  The brands like Motul, Fuchs Silkolene, and Motorex are all very Motorcycle specific. Then LiquiMoly has a bike range as well.

JASO MA/MA2 is the rating that makes sure it's good for a wet clutch (which your bike clearly has since it asks for that rating).
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Edgar on July 01, 2020, 08:34:13 am
Thanks, i guess i am still not sure now..... Where can i get bike specific oil ? Only at a bike dealership ?

Midas  :deal:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: LouisXander on July 01, 2020, 08:35:42 am
Some Midas sells Castrol Actevo, which is a bike oil.

Or Startline in Edenvale Durbs and CPT also sells, or any bike shop
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on July 01, 2020, 09:52:04 am
Ok thanks guys this is helpful information, final question.
If anyone knows where i can find bike oil in the west rand/florida area please do tell.

I am going to go to Midas in florida to see if they have Castrol Actevo, then there is another midas off discovery area.

I contacted them both. Florida branch was engaged but i emailed them and they did not bother to respond.
I did get hold of a someone at the "off discovery area" branch, he said they do not have 10W /30 but they do have 10W /40 for R100 a liter. He could not tell me what brand or if it will work on a bike.

So If anyone else knows of any place near this vicinity please this will help a lot.
Autozone in the same areas seems to not wanting to help, due to this i'm still unsure what or if they have.

There is a goldwagen (but this is only for bmw/volkswagen vehicles ?) so dont think they will have, i will call them anyway.


Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: TheBear on July 01, 2020, 10:00:54 am
Google " Motorcycle Shops"  in your area.  There are at least a Suzuki and Honda dealer as well as a few independents.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Kortbroek on July 01, 2020, 10:24:57 am
Before all the questions, post n picture of your bike >:D  let's see!!!

Ja nee we're being had here I'm sure.

No bike pics, no advice  :deal:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on July 01, 2020, 10:46:31 am
Google " Motorcycle Shops"  in your area.  There are at least a Suzuki and Honda dealer as well as a few independents.

Thanks, i did try Suzuki, the would not bother to respond, but i will try Honda, perhaps just go there in person right now ! Thank you :)
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on July 01, 2020, 10:47:16 am
Before all the questions, post n picture of your bike >:D  let's see!!!

Ja nee we're being had here I'm sure.

No bike pics, no advice  :deal:
i did reply to this question much earlier on or was it in my other posts ? Anyway will post pics when i can for sure, but nothing to drool over, its just a 125 (which i am very happy with, its a pretty little bike, and i don't need anything more than that ) very happy so far :)
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on July 01, 2020, 11:10:06 am
Ok even Honda does not have 10W /30 only 10w /40 But obviously it being honda they should have the right oil, i wil go get my 1 liter bottle for R135 thanks for the help :)
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: TheBear on July 01, 2020, 11:38:53 am
Bike shops are not known for their religious e-mail usage.  The one I trust with my bike and life, are notoriously bad at e-mail responses.

Anyway, 10w-40 will be fine.  The 2nd number indicates the expected behaviour of the viscosity of the oil at high temperatures.  40 is better than 30.  The 1st number is the important one.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: skydiver on July 01, 2020, 01:13:58 pm
Autozone should have Castrol Power 1 or Castrol Actevo 4-stroke oil
I always buy from either these two shops or Makro
Both these are around R100 - R120 per liter and they are JASO MA compliant (bike specific for wet clutch bikes)
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 01, 2020, 01:19:24 pm
10W30 must be fork oil.

Where ever you ask for it, the answer is always; "Sorry sir, we have fokoil" :peepwall:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: TheBear on July 01, 2020, 01:33:40 pm
10W30 must be fork oil.

Where ever you ask for it, the answer is always; "Sorry sir, we have fokoil" :peepwall:

 :laughing4: :laughing4:

Some years ago, a buddy (1980 Yamaha FJ1200) and I (DL1000) were at Kagga Kamma while on a bike tour.  The Yamie's fork seal collapsed and by then the forks were empty, so no suspension at all.  This was no good for those roads so I went to Opdieberg.  The only oil they had was some sort of farm use 30SAE.  I reasoned, any oil is better than no oil, so I grabbed some.  We had no idea how much to use, etc.  So, we cleverly filled the forks to the brim.  Closed them up and then sat next to the bike, each with a screwdriver.  He would count 1, 2, 3 OPEN!  Upon which we would both open the drain plugs.  Then he'd count, 1, 2, 3 CLOSE!  We closed up.  He then hopped on the bike and bounced it a bit.  We did this till we could declare he had a working suspension.  We completed our trip, about another 3000km like that.  What was nice, was that the SAE30 didn't really leak as badly as the normal fork oil. 
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on July 01, 2020, 02:08:27 pm
Ok thanks i did get 10W 30 just now from Honda.

The sales guy at honda said they have and the guy over the fone said they did not so a bit of a funny but sorted.

So since the manual says 10W 30, and they had it, i bought it. Will it be ok for summer here ?
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: RobC on July 01, 2020, 02:29:14 pm
Ok thanks i did get 10W 30 just now from Honda.

The sales guy at honda said they have and the guy over the fone said they did not so a bit of a funny but sorted.

So since the manual says 10W 30, and they had it, i bought it. Will it be ok for summer here ?
Single cylinder bikes are not that particular on the exact grade, the yellow shell helix HX5 15w 50 would be fine as well as our winters are nat artic level cold, the 50 rating is better for our hotter summer as well. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Roadhawg on July 01, 2020, 03:08:04 pm
Ok thanks i did get 10W 30 just now from Honda.

The sales guy at honda said they have and the guy over the fone said they did not so a bit of a funny but sorted.

So since the manual says 10W 30, and they had it, i bought it. Will it be ok for summer here ?

I think you're overthinking this a bit man.  :biggrin:

It's a multigrade oil. It'll be fine in pretty much any climate South Africa can through at you.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: TheBear on July 01, 2020, 04:55:13 pm
Ok thanks i did get 10W 30 just now from Honda.

The sales guy at honda said they have and the guy over the fone said they did not so a bit of a funny but sorted.

So since the manual says 10W 30, and they had it, i bought it. Will it be ok for summer here ?

Your bike will be fine.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Jacobsroodt on July 01, 2020, 05:21:25 pm
10W30 is specified for my Honda CRF250L. When I asked for it at Trac Mac they recommended 10W40. Good for our hot summers, they said.
My sister's son with a BMW F800ST upped the oil from SAE 15W-40 to SAE 15W-50 to cure the typical F800 startup noise at idle. Now I see the SAE 15W-50 is specified as standard from 2013 and up.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: JIMMI on July 01, 2020, 06:49:12 pm
Before all the questions, post n picture of your bike >:D  let's see!!!

Ja nee we're being had here I'm sure.

No bike pics, no advice  :deal:


Probably a little bit of mischief me thinks...
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: BuRP on July 02, 2020, 10:51:51 am
have said those Shell products are clutch friendly, there is nothing in the Data Sheets that prove  that

Interesting..... what would you like to see displayed on oiltins so as to convince you it is oilbath-clutch friendly?
Wet clutches work with 'oil', so....

The opposite though IS mentioned on oiltins, like 'fuel saving' or 'friction modifiers added' or...
Yeah, some oils spec a JASO rating which is a motoerbike-only rating, and bikes often have wet clutches so you'd assume that all is then honky dory eh?
Then look at the price, R135/L form Honda, no doubt JASO'd also - bit dear innit?
But go for it!

Not buying Helix Ultra because it is a "car"-oil is silly I think, perhaps look up what its classification really means  ;)
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: BuRP on July 02, 2020, 10:58:31 am
the 50 rating is better for our hotter summer as well.

Really?
Honda made it, and they says 30!
Yeah, I agree, 50 likely won't break it, but 'better' ?
Ek glo ma ek glo swaar swaer....  ;)

Besides, also be careful with 'singles are not particular about oil'.... because they are, especially the modern big ones!
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: 2StrokeDan on July 02, 2020, 11:00:17 am
have said those Shell products are clutch friendly, there is nothing in the Data Sheets that prove  that

Interesting..... what would you like to see displayed on oiltins so as to convince you it is oilbath-clutch friendly?
Wet clutches work with 'oil', so....

The opposite though IS mentioned on oiltins, like 'fuel saving' or 'friction modifiers added' or...
Yeah, some oils spec a JASO rating which is a motoerbike-only rating, and bikes often have wet clutches so you'd assume that all is then honky dory eh?
Then look at the price, R135/L form Honda, no doubt JASO'd also - bit dear innit?
But go for it!

Not buying Helix Ultra because it is a "car"-oil is silly I think, perhaps look up what its classification really means  ;)

100%.

20W50 has been my main staple oil for bikes as long as I can remember, and they all do high mileage, without ever having a clutch problem.

Then again, all my bikes had cable clutches, and most "clutch" problems are hydraulics related anyway.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Roadhawg on July 02, 2020, 11:03:45 am
have said those Shell products are clutch friendly, there is nothing in the Data Sheets that prove  that

Interesting..... what would you like to see displayed on oiltins so as to convince you it is oilbath-clutch friendly?
Wet clutches work with 'oil', so....

The opposite though IS mentioned on oiltins, like 'fuel saving' or 'friction modifiers added' or...
Yeah, some oils spec a JASO rating which is a motoerbike-only rating, and bikes often have wet clutches so you'd assume that all is then honky dory eh?
Then look at the price, R135/L form Honda, no doubt JASO'd also - bit dear innit?
But go for it!

Not buying Helix Ultra because it is a "car"-oil is silly I think, perhaps look up what its classification really means  ;)

I have no doubt you're right, but I just think without a JASO rating that manufacturer is under no obligation to NOT put friction modifiers in the product if they wanted to.  JASO MA rating is specifically for wet clutch operation.

If Shell suddenly changed their formulation and it did have friction modifiers and wasn't good for a wet clutch, then it would still match the current TDS sheet and we'd be none the wiser, untill everybody's clutches started slipping  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: RobC on July 02, 2020, 12:15:41 pm
the 50 rating is better for our hotter summer as well.

Really?
Honda made it, and they says 30!
Yeah, I agree, 50 likely won't break it, but 'better' ?
Ek glo ma ek glo swaar swaer....  ;)

Besides, also be careful with 'singles are not particular about oil'.... because they are, especially the modern big ones!
exactly, this is an ancient Honda design. :deal:

The 30/40/50 rating is viscosity rating, higher is better in warm sunny countries... :sip:

Here is the dope...
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Roadhawg on July 02, 2020, 12:45:26 pm
the 50 rating is better for our hotter summer as well.

Really?
Honda made it, and they says 30!
Yeah, I agree, 50 likely won't break it, but 'better' ?
Ek glo ma ek glo swaar swaer....  ;)

Besides, also be careful with 'singles are not particular about oil'.... because they are, especially the modern big ones!
exactly, this is an ancient Honda design. :deal:

The 30/40/50 rating is viscosity rating, higher is better in warm sunny countries... :sip:

Here is the dope...
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

I've never really gotten this, and I am in the industry.

Surely ambient temps have little to do with operating temp, assuming the vehicle has a competent cooling system?   I mean a motor will operate at say 100-120deg and the coolant and thermostat will keep it roughly in that range no matter the comparatively small variances in outside temps. 

So I don't really buy the "Just run thicker oil" thing.    Thicker oil can lead to even higher temps because it has its own internal friction and heat build up....nobody ever thinks about that.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: BuRP on July 02, 2020, 03:24:57 pm
The 30/40/50 rating is viscosity rating, higher is better in warm sunny countries... :sip:

Here is the dope...
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

You may believe who you like, no problem - but the below I copied from that link...
"Obviously a 10W-10 motor oil won't have the film strength to prevent engine wear at full operating temperature like a 5W-20, 10W-30 or 5W-30 motor oil for example."
... surely you know this is baseless nonsense?
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: BuRP on July 02, 2020, 03:30:34 pm
Thicker oil can lead to even higher temps because it has its own internal friction and heat build up....nobody ever thinks about that.

Very correct indeed, the prescribed oil viscosity depends on the design of the engine (and this is why the manufacturer knows best when he prescribes the correct oil), modern engines being a helluvalot tighter than decades ago..... hence we use thinner oils today!
20W50 used to be the standard, these days this is probably 10W40.
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: Roadhawg on July 02, 2020, 03:37:16 pm
Thicker oil can lead to even higher temps because it has its own internal friction and heat build up....nobody ever thinks about that.

Very correct indeed, the prescribed oil viscosity depends on the design of the engine (and this is why the manufacturer knows best when he prescribes the correct oil), modern engines being a helluvalot tighter than decades ago..... hence we use thinner oils today!
20W50 used to be the standard, these days this is probably 10W40.

Yeah, seeing these new 0w20 oils!!!  Like water :biggrin:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: BuRP on July 02, 2020, 03:46:29 pm
If Shell suddenly changed their formulation and it did have friction modifiers and wasn't good for a wet clutch, then it would still match the current TDS sheet and we'd be none the wiser, untill everybody's clutches started slipping

I'm sure you're trying to pull my or others leg surely, a worldbrand like Shell changing the formula of the contents of oil they sell without changing the name/nomer/specs/details/tin-itself...
NEVER!
Look, even you know Esso, not sold in southern Africa - but you know the name!
Oilcompanies are fuel companies, fuel is what they sell - period, and they make a shitload of monies with that!
But, to cater for some convenience for their clients they also sell some oils which they design by a village of scientists they employ anyway.
If they would screw up once with an oil, like you suggest, then their name would be affected hence they would loose staggering amounts of money, you realize that?
Not on your life they ever will do this!
Their oils perform as per their tins, anyone's tot on a block for this, and a new formula/oil definitely will have a new tin/correct specs/etc on it!
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: TheBear on July 03, 2020, 02:49:14 pm
I've never really gotten this, and I am in the industry.

Surely ambient temps have little to do with operating temp, assuming the vehicle has a competent cooling system?   I mean a motor will operate at say 100-120deg and the coolant and thermostat will keep it roughly in that range no matter the comparatively small variances in outside temps. 

I have to agree.  I can see that the first number, say 10W can be related to ambient temperature as the engine, its internals, oil and cooling liquid will be at ambient temperature or close to it just before, during and for a small period of time after starting.  I can also understand that for this part, the viscosity is pretty important.

Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: TheBear on July 03, 2020, 02:52:22 pm
Look, even you know Esso, not sold in southern Africa - but you know the name!

If he is my age or older, he would remember Esso very well due to their service stations all over SA.  After all, who didn't want a tiger in their tank? 
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: RobC on July 03, 2020, 04:49:41 pm
I've never really gotten this, and I am in the industry.

Surely ambient temps have little to do with operating temp, assuming the vehicle has a competent cooling system?   I mean a motor will operate at say 100-120deg and the coolant and thermostat will keep it roughly in that range no matter the comparatively small variances in outside temps. 

I have to agree.  I can see that the first number, say 10W can be related to ambient temperature as the engine, its internals, oil and cooling liquid will be at ambient temperature or close to it just before, during and for a small period of time after starting.  I can also understand that for this part, the viscosity is pretty important.
An engine runs hotter on a hot day than on a cold day... fit an oil temp gauge and see for yourself...
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: TheBear on July 06, 2020, 05:02:52 pm
I've never really gotten this, and I am in the industry.

Surely ambient temps have little to do with operating temp, assuming the vehicle has a competent cooling system?   I mean a motor will operate at say 100-120deg and the coolant and thermostat will keep it roughly in that range no matter the comparatively small variances in outside temps. 

I have to agree.  I can see that the first number, say 10W can be related to ambient temperature as the engine, its internals, oil and cooling liquid will be at ambient temperature or close to it just before, during and for a small period of time after starting.  I can also understand that for this part, the viscosity is pretty important.
An engine runs hotter on a hot day than on a cold day... fit an oil temp gauge and see for yourself...

The question is, how much hotter?
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: zacapa on July 06, 2020, 05:20:55 pm
I've been throwing 10W 40 Heavy Duty Diesel engine oil in all my vehicles, cars, bikes, lawnmower etc for the last 20 years. They all seem happy so far with zero problems.

Correction - it's actually 15W 40! I think it's the 5W makes all the difference
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: VaalBaas on July 06, 2020, 05:37:45 pm
I've been throwing 10W 40 Heavy Duty Diesel engine oil in all my vehicles, cars, bikes, lawnmower etc for the last 20 years. They all seem happy so far with zero problems.

Nou fok jy Blitzer se kop heel rond :lol8: :lol8:
Title: Re: Engine oil for the cbr 125
Post by: blitzer on July 10, 2020, 10:56:29 am
With covid 19 still having its impacts i had to see where i can squeeze out extra cash for oil, so i went to honda and they had 10w30 in stock, bought it drove back the 5km with the bike, did the oil change. after looking at the amount of oil it seems like it was not full.

So not wanting to ride the bike like that, i scraped another round of coins together and walked to Honda 10km round trip.

At least now i have enough oil for a while, i accidentally turned the sump bolt the wrong way (so strange because i never make mistakes like these ! !) this comes from wanting to be too over cautious !) LUCKILY i did not strip the sump threads. And i got a new crush washer that i used on it. Thanks everyone for the advice, its really been valuable.