Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: DR BIG 750 on September 03, 2021, 05:58:49 am

Title: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 03, 2021, 05:58:49 am
SO.. Looking around the workshop I have lots of DR bits lying around engines frames plastics so decided to build a RAT bike for a guy at work to ride about, have a few plass engines I have opened , shoo quite a surprise but will get a running albeit a bit of smoke. well it is a bitsa.. not using any new bits, making do, I have never seen so much silicone on an engine, but I got 2 for a song so wtf..  the tank I have is an ally tank but does not fit like the steel tank, thought it was from DR 400. now I am not sure what its from shape identical a few litrs bigger but the frame spine recess seems a bit smaller. The plastic colours will be as I finf them. a few shots so far,
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 03, 2021, 06:03:37 am
the colours so far
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 03, 2021, 08:04:40 am
Check the red sealer on that engine! :eek7:

Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 03, 2021, 08:14:04 am
my point agzacery, not sure if it came from the plaas or the glue factory, was thinking of removing the balancer assy on this one, 15kg of pig iron
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: m0lt3n on September 03, 2021, 09:12:34 am
subscribed.

looks promising
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Roadhawg on September 03, 2021, 09:19:12 am
I love stuff like this.  Nice one!
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: BuRP on September 03, 2021, 09:40:13 am
was thinking of removing the balancer assy on this one, 15kg of pig iron

That will be a patently bad idea I reckon....  ;)
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Black_Hawk on September 03, 2021, 09:57:09 am
This looks like a very interesting build. I can't wait so see the end result  :thumleft:

It is shocking to see the "mechanics done" on some of these bikes  :-\
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 03, 2021, 09:58:22 am
Following. Let me know what you have left over. My buddy's DR 500 S is standing at my place.

Complete, but needs some love.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 04, 2021, 05:38:13 am
was thinking of removing the balancer assy on this one, 15kg of pig iron

That will be a patently bad idea I reckon....  ;)
have reada n article about it seems to have had minimul adverse affect, trying to determine if it was removed for affect or because of broken bits
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 04, 2021, 05:39:48 am
Following. Let me know what you have left over. My buddy's DR 500 S is standing at my place.

Complete, but needs some love.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
one like this , fix it they are quite simple to work in, great to ride
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 04, 2021, 05:47:23 am
DR 500s in oe trim
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 04, 2021, 06:03:15 am
when I got back to workshop I spent another hr or so on the "rebuilt motor". it took a good effort with a 800mm  350nm Brit tool torque wrench to loosen the 4 head bolts. as I turned the power bar the motor was turning had to clamp it, they are heavy motors, found some more evidence of , some folk should not touch :-[ the piston has evidence of kissing its neighbours , valve marks or some other foreignbody.  the siicone  tsunami was very evident again, have a look
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 04, 2021, 06:05:39 am
any idea why some pictures get stretched and distorted when posting here. all taken with same phone and loaded same as usual >:(
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Tony the Boney on September 04, 2021, 08:09:54 am
any idea why some pictures get stretched and distorted when posting here. all taken with same phone and loaded same as usual >:(

take the pictures in the folder on your computer that are affected, make copies and save them.
Use the saved ones for posting
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 04, 2021, 08:15:45 am
DR 500s in oe trim
Exactly the one of my buddy.

Tank and side panels are fine.

Aftermarket fenders need replacement.

Engine has a few small oil sweats. Gasket sealer evident too.

Need a new/another header pipe. Maybe Powerflow in Durbs kan make.

Any advice on engine gaskets, as well as new spokes?

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 04, 2021, 08:17:37 am
when I got back to workshop I spent another hr or so on the "rebuilt motor". it took a good effort with a 800mm  350nm Brit tool torque wrench to loosen the 4 head bolts. as I turned the power bar the motor was turning had to clamp it, they are heavy motors, found some more evidence of , some folk should not touch :-[ the piston has evidence of kissing its neighbours , valve marks or some other foreignbody.  the siicone  tsunami was very evident again, have a look
Shocking!

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 05, 2021, 05:31:51 am
trying the resave with the pics,
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 05, 2021, 05:34:09 am
any idea why some pictures get stretched and distorted when posting here. all taken with same phone and loaded same as usual >:(

take the pictures in the folder on your computer that are affected, make copies and save them.
Use the saved ones for posting
still distorted
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 05, 2021, 05:40:09 am
DR 500s in oe trim
Exactly the one of my buddy.

Tank and side panels are fine.

Aftermarket fenders need replacement.

Engine has a few small oil sweats. Gasket sealer evident too.

Need a new/another header pipe. Maybe Powerflow in Durbs kan make.

Any advice on engine gaskets, as well as new spokes?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
  remember to keep the collar on the end of header pipe and weld it to a new one, gaskets propably make you own or gasket maker. spokes a bbreakers yard  and replate. Most spares obsolete now, check e bay they come up every now and then. spokes could made from someone like central wheel. lots of scrappers around for bits. look after your rockers they like are rocking horse shit.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 05, 2021, 08:30:48 am
DR 500s in oe trim
Exactly the one of my buddy.

Tank and side panels are fine.

Aftermarket fenders need replacement.

Engine has a few small oil sweats. Gasket sealer evident too.

Need a new/another header pipe. Maybe Powerflow in Durbs kan make.

Any advice on engine gaskets, as well as new spokes?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk
  remember to keep the collar on the end of header pipe and weld it to a new one, gaskets propably make you own or gasket maker. spokes a bbreakers yard  and replate. Most spares obsolete now, check e bay they come up every now and then. spokes could made from someone like central wheel. lots of scrappers around for bits. look after your rockers they like are rocking horse shit.
Appreciate the advice.

I will try and make most gaskets. Hate the RTV stuff, but believe it can be applied correctly/conservatively.

The spokes are still intact, so I'll be soaking them with penetrating oil and patiently loosing them. Plating then.

What is your plan with the headgasket?

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: desertfox on September 05, 2021, 09:55:37 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 05, 2021, 10:34:10 am
If you have the engine stripped to it's last part, then the way to go is to dress the gasket surfaces on a surface table, or emery paper on a sheet of glass for flatness.

Then assemble with something like Wurth's grey silicone or Yamabond or Reinzosil.

Just be careful,sometimes the clutch casing is the stopper for a gearshaft or kickstart shaft, and gasketless may give too little clearance.

Headgasket I would have a copper gasket made up, do not know where, but if you get the correct thickness copper sheet somewhere, you can cut your own.

Heat that copper gasket up over a gas stove and dunk it in cold water to anneal it.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 05, 2021, 11:14:51 am
If you have the engine stripped to it's last part, then the way to go is to dress the gasket surfaces on a surface table, or emery paper on a sheet of glass for flatness.

Then assemble with something like Wurth's grey silicone or Yamabond or Reinzosil.

Just be careful,sometimes the clutch casing is the stopper for a gearshaft or kickstart shaft, and gasketless may give too little clearance.

Headgasket I would have a copper gasket made up, do not know where, but if you get the correct thickness copper sheet somewhere, you can cut your own.

Heat that copper gasket up over a gas stove and dunk it in cold water to anneal it.
Waardevolle kennis, dankie Danie!

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 05, 2021, 11:41:25 am
 :sip:
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 06, 2021, 04:59:39 am
I had some head gaskes some where will try finf pic and recall where i had them made up, this . std head gasket quite thick the ones I made up were slightly thicker but was a oval copper type ring insert which probably squashed a bit under head tension, never the less worked will on the previous 2 motors.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 06, 2021, 05:06:24 am
this pic was yesterday at Rhino park. it also came out squashed so went back pic , cropped it and fiddled a bit I see it is now a mirror image check suzuki sign and cars no plates ???
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Dustbiter on September 06, 2021, 06:10:23 am
this pic was yesterday at Rhino park. it also came out squashed so went back pic , cropped it and fiddled a bit I see it is now a mirror image check suzuki sign and cars no plates ???

Daars hy!!!
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 06, 2021, 06:47:13 am
I had some head gaskes some where will try finf pic and recall where i had them made up, this . std head gasket quite thick the ones I made up were slightly thicker but was a oval copper type ring insert which probably squashed a bit under head tension, never the less worked will on the previous 2 motors.
Thank you. I'm willing to do all gaskets by hand, but any help will be appreciated!

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 06, 2021, 06:49:57 am
Daars hy!!!
A stunner for sure! Well done!

Love the white frame and fenders!

Any recommendations on replacement fenders!

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 06, 2021, 09:03:18 am
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 06, 2021, 09:34:23 am
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%
Dankie. Het jy nog left over genoeg vir nog ń gasket?

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 06, 2021, 12:41:17 pm
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%
Dankie. Het jy nog left over genoeg vir nog ń gasket?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Jammer nee, was paar jaar terug gewees.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: BuRP on September 06, 2021, 12:47:42 pm
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%

Fwiw:
- If one heats up copper and let it cool off normally then the copper becomes hard, perhaps even brittle.
- If one heats up copper and then quenches it (dunk it into a bucket with cold water i.e sudden cooling) then copper becomes its soft and mallable self (not so with steel which then becomes hard!)
It goes without saying that the latter is wanted.

Oh, copper that has been deformed (like a used gasket or washer) also becomes harder, so to reuse it heating & quenching is advisable.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 06, 2021, 01:01:44 pm
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%

Fwiw:
- If one heats up copper and let it cool off normally then the copper becomes hard, perhaps even brittle.
- If one heats up copper and then quenches it (dunk it into a bucket with cold water i.e sudden cooling) then copper becomes its soft and mallable self (not so with steel which then becomes hard!)
It goes without saying that the latter is wanted.

Oh, copper that has been deformed (like a used gasket or washer) also becomes harder, so to reuse it heating & quenching is advisable.

What he said!

On my RM500 however I just heated it up every time between ring changes, didn't evenbother with water and used that one for a few years and sold it like that.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 06, 2021, 01:39:45 pm
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%
Dankie. Het jy nog left over genoeg vir nog ń gasket?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Jammer nee, was paar jaar terug gewees.
Dankie. Kan jy die dikte van die koper plaat onthou?

@DR BIG 750 What's the thickness of the old OEM head gasket?

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 06, 2021, 06:56:33 pm
will measure a decent one tomorrow, that one is trashed and delaminated.
That yellow one is my enduro vmx one, built that one during initial lock down. this one is another build
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 06, 2021, 07:16:43 pm
will measure a decent one tomorrow, that one is trashed and delaminated.
That yellow one is my enduro vmx one, built that one during initial lock down. this one is another build
Appreciate!

What work did you do to the shocks and forks? Forks don't look original.

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 06, 2021, 07:24:29 pm
it is running PE suspension and ally swingarm grafted on to DR frame . Fork rebuid quite simple. Rear end to soft for the track but vmx enduro type works well, then the white is for twin schock class but also to soft suspension, but flat trackin its a beasti and hold s its own.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 06, 2021, 07:44:50 pm
Tis the track bike, the other white one is the origonal enduro version from factory , waiting in the build q
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 06, 2021, 07:48:24 pm
in mx trim
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Bikerboer1973 on September 07, 2021, 08:58:05 am
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%
Dankie. Het jy nog left over genoeg vir nog ń gasket?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Jammer nee, was paar jaar terug gewees.
Dankie. Kan jy die dikte van die koper plaat onthou?

@DR BIG 750 What's the thickness of the old OEM head gasket?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Die een wat ek gebruik het was 1mm dik gewees as ek reg onthou, selfde dikte as die oue. So beste is om die oue te meet.
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 07, 2021, 02:35:36 pm
I got a sheet of coper, the correct thickness and cut my own head gasket, warmed it up before installing and work 100%
Dankie. Het jy nog left over genoeg vir nog ń gasket?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Jammer nee, was paar jaar terug gewees.
Dankie. Kan jy die dikte van die koper plaat onthou?

@DR BIG 750 What's the thickness of the old OEM head gasket?

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk

Die een wat ek gebruik het was 1mm dik gewees as ek reg onthou, selfde dikte as die oue. So beste is om die oue te meet.
Baie dankie!

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 10, 2021, 11:57:52 am
@DR BIG 750

Gerald. A question on header pipes.

I'm speaking with Powerflow in Durbs for a new SS header pipe.

I believe there is a difference  in header pipe diameter between the S and the X.

Your knowledge on this? If different, what do you recommend for the DR 500 S?

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 10, 2021, 07:36:37 pm
that i am not aware of, I ahve a std X in the workdhop Q, when I get it out i can check, when they the header, do they mean pipe diameter or the collar that fits in the head, to mt knowledge head is the same/
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 10, 2021, 09:03:21 pm
I reckon pipe diameter. Could you perhaps measure the pipe outside diameter, behind the fastening flange of the X's header for me?

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 11, 2021, 05:23:28 am
will do this morn/
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 11, 2021, 06:14:34 am
Appreciate!

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 12, 2021, 06:19:41 am
measured 4 seperate pipes including the X all 35mm
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: chopperpilot on September 12, 2021, 07:38:42 am
measured 4 seperate pipes including the X all 35mm
Thank you very much!

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Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 15, 2021, 06:38:30 am
Experimenting a bit, I have a few of these motors in various states as the pics show, sorted spme potsand sitable pistons, mostly heads are damaged, normally oil supply or lack thereof. another ptoblem is worn rockers, and DR 500 rockers are like rocking horse shit. Have pullled out the counter balance chain drive system, next will split casings to pull the actual balancer weights. then reasssemble. lets seet he speed of rpm increase. have read a bit on it but not to much in depth available, apparantly slightly more vibration at low rpm/
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: DR BIG 750 on September 15, 2021, 06:46:24 am
just noticed if I crop or rotate a pic then post this squashed pic shit goes away :o
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: BuRP on September 15, 2021, 09:56:57 am
just noticed if I crop or rotate a pic then post this squashed pic shit goes away

Correct, they must be saved or re-saved first.
Rotate them even if correct, then re-rotate them back, save again, then Bob's your Uncle  :thumleft:
Title: Re: RAT BUILD
Post by: Black_Hawk on September 15, 2021, 10:36:51 am
I've created a whatsapp group with myself and my wife(or any other person) on the group. Then you delete the other person from the group. The group will still be active and you will be able to send photo's to yourself.

I then use whatsapp web on my computer an download the photos to my computer from where I upload them to Wilddogs. It is a bit of a schlep, but the photos are re-sized correctly and it is easy to upload them to Wilddogs