Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 09:50:41 am

Title: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 09:50:41 am
Watching the MotoGP yesterday and having watched a lot of Isle of Man TT and green lane racing the last two weeks I was wondering what would happen if any of the top Isle of Man TT riders were to be put on a MotoGP bike? How long would it take for them to be competitive if at all?

I know to put a MotoGP rider on the Isle of Man would be murder as it takes years to "learn" that track.

What say you how would  Michael Dunlop or Bruce Anstey and others do on a MotoGP bike?
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: TheBear on September 20, 2021, 10:06:00 am
Watching the MotoGP yesterday and having watched a lot of Isle of Man TT and green lane racing the last two weeks I was wondering what would happen if any of the top Isle of Man TT riders were to be put on a MotoGP bike? How long would it take for them to be competitive if at all?

I know to put a MotoGP rider on the Isle of Man would be murder as it takes years to "learn" that track.

What say you how would  Michael Dunlop or Bruce Anstey and others do on a MotoGP bike?

I think it is a very difficult call to make, due to the fact that the tracks and the bikes are very different. 

There are some of them who race in British Superbikes on occasion.  Peter Hickman who has won the Macau GP (similar to IOM) and the IOM TT did race in BSB for some years, but his best was 7th or 9th in the championship.  In the 80s Ron Haslam won the MacauGP six years running and one of two IOM races as well.  He raced MotoGP (then 500cc smokers), but never really inpressed.

So, my opinion is that the Irish Road Racing riders (which includes the IOM TT) won't feature in MotoGP.  The bikes and type of racing is just way too different.  The other way around today, would be the same.  No chance a MotoGP rider will win the IOM.  That said, up to the 70's they did so once a year as the IOM TT was the British Grand Prix.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Altie7deLaan on September 20, 2021, 10:37:46 am
two different animals. the pinnacle of track and road racing.
Motogp guys are like the F1 guys, they usually start with karts/bikes before they can walk proper. They hone skills for many years, and are used to (close to perfect as possible) safety conditions. These guys have a sense of speed that is incredible.
Roadracing...... you need a passion for biking that is way stronger than the inherent dangers of road paint, stone walls and pavements.
It is not easy to cross over with disciplines.
This is now the electronic aid era, we will never see a guy come back after a 11 year retirement and win like Mike Hailwood did. He was 38 then, only 4 years younger than VR46 is now.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 11:43:01 am
I do not know how they do it!!! My hol staan permanent oop na so n tankslapper!!!! :o :o :o :o

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Altie7deLaan on September 20, 2021, 12:03:31 pm

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: mox on September 20, 2021, 12:16:00 pm
Watching the MotoGP yesterday and having watched a lot of Isle of Man TT and green lane racing the last two weeks I was wondering what would happen if any of the top Isle of Man TT riders were to be put on a MotoGP bike? How long would it take for them to be competitive if at all?

I know to put a MotoGP rider on the Isle of Man would be murder as it takes years to "learn" that track.

What say you how would  Michael Dunlop or Bruce Anstey and others do on a MotoGP bike?

I think it is a very difficult call to make, due to the fact that the tracks and the bikes are very different. 

There are some of them who race in British Superbikes on occasion.  Peter Hickman who has won the Macau GP (similar to IOM) and the IOM TT did race in BSB for some years, but his best was 7th or 9th in the championship.  In the 80s Ron Haslam won the MacauGP six years running and one of two IOM races as well.  He raced MotoGP (then 500cc smokers), but never really inpressed.

So, my opinion is that the Irish Road Racing riders (which includes the IOM TT) won't feature in MotoGP.  The bikes and type of racing is just way too different.  The other way around today, would be the same.  No chance a MotoGP rider will win the IOM.  That said, up to the 70's they did so once a year as the IOM TT was the British Grand Prix.

Very well put and my sentiments echoed .
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Sheepman on September 20, 2021, 12:44:49 pm
There are very few prima donnas ( if any at all ) in the TT races  ;) Most of the TT racers really understand the mechanical side of their bikes and can actually speak English  :thumleft:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 12:47:11 pm
There are very few prima donnas ( if any at all ) in the TT races  ;) Most of the TT racers really understand the mechanical side of their bikes and can actually speak English :thumleft:
Guy Martin do not speak english does he?!! ;) :peepwall: :lol8:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: McSack on September 20, 2021, 12:50:10 pm
The additional testicular weight of IoM riders will mess terribly with the balance of MotoGP bikes.

Sent from my BV9500 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Petrilkop on September 20, 2021, 12:53:03 pm
If they have the TT every second week like MotoGP, there will be no riders left within a year.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 12:55:22 pm
VR doing the track in 2009.

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Sheepman on September 20, 2021, 01:12:45 pm
There are very few prima donnas ( if any at all ) in the TT races  ;) Most of the TT racers really understand the mechanical side of their bikes and can actually speak English :thumleft:
Guy Martin do not speak english does he?!! ;) :peepwall: :lol8:

True, he speaks Guy Martin dialect  :thumleft: What a character  ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 01:15:15 pm
There are very few prima donnas ( if any at all ) in the TT races  ;) Most of the TT racers really understand the mechanical side of their bikes and can actually speak English :thumleft:
Guy Martin do not speak english does he?!! ;) :peepwall: :lol8:

True, he speaks Guy Martin dialect  :thumleft: What a character  ;D
Who would have ever thought someone with a speech problem could be a tv presenter!! ;) :lol8:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Sheepman on September 20, 2021, 01:50:35 pm
The additional testicular weight of IoM riders will mess terribly with the balance of MotoGP bikes.

Sent from my BV9500 using Tapatalk

Very true  :thumleft:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Odd Dog on September 20, 2021, 02:13:54 pm
One thing is certain those IOM TT manne have Big Brass Balls.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 02:39:34 pm
 :o :o :o :o :o

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 02:43:48 pm
Wet race!! :o :o

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: TheBear on September 20, 2021, 03:01:24 pm
While the IoMTT is the pinnacle of Irish Road Racing, we tend to forget there are other races, similar to the IoM as well.  The first being the ManxGP which is also on the IoM, but more geared toward privateers and they also have the Classic TT at the same time.  Then there are the MacauGP in China, but considered part of the Irish Road Racing Circuit and of course many races on the roads of Ireland. 

These guys are all a tad off there rockers.  First, they race in super dangerous conditions and then they do it in more than one class.  Even the privateers with no bucks for a Superbike spec bike, will race in the Superbikes (if they qualify) with a Superstock 1000 bike.  Our own AJ Venter is guilty of this himself.  They have no chance, but do it for the " participation medal"  which is dished out to all who finished the prescribed 6 laps and who are still alive.

AJ Venter tells an interesting story.  It is how things happen at the IoM TT.  One of the electric bike classes lose their rider due to some serious tummy bug.  So the team manager walks up pit lane and says to AJ: "You seem free at the moment.  Would you like to ride our bike in the race later today?"  So AJ, immediately goes for it.  They walk over to their pits and AJ tells them he has never ridden one before.  They show him the controls, explain a few nitty gritty details and tell him to take the bike out on track.  AJ: "How many laps do you think I will get in for practise?"  Team Manager: "There are none.  You have this one to qualify and then the race in an hour!"   He qualified, raced, finished and remained alive.



Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: sidetrack on September 20, 2021, 03:04:55 pm
VR doing the track in 2009.


Rossi doing the same pace there as his current form  :lol8:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Half - Bac on September 20, 2021, 03:20:33 pm
While the IoMTT is the pinnacle of Irish Road Racing, we tend to forget there are other races, similar to the IoM as well.  The first being the ManxGP which is also on the IoM, but more geared toward privateers and they also have the Classic TT at the same time.  Then there are the MacauGP in China, but considered part of the Irish Road Racing Circuit and of course many races on the roads of Ireland. 

These guys are all a tad off there rockers.  First, they race in super dangerous conditions and then they do it in more than one class.  Even the privateers with no bucks for a Superbike spec bike, will race in the Superbikes (if they qualify) with a Superstock 1000 bike.  Our own AJ Venter is guilty of this himself.  They have no chance, but do it for the " participation medal"  which is dished out to all who finished the prescribed 6 laps and who are still alive.

AJ Venter tells an interesting story.  It is how things happen at the IoM TT.  One of the electric bike classes lose their rider due to some serious tummy bug.  So the team manager walks up pit lane and says to AJ: "You seem free at the moment.  Would you like to ride our bike in the race later today?"  So AJ, immediately goes for it.  They walk over to their pits and AJ tells them he has never ridden one before.  They show him the controls, explain a few nitty gritty details and tell him to take the bike out on track.  AJ: "How many laps do you think I will get in for practise?"  Team Manager: "There are none.  You have this one to qualify and then the race in an hour!"   He qualified, raced, finished and remained alive.

That Team Manager is my mate, S.A. born Robbie Driver, son of the far more famous Paddy Driver.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: TheBear on September 20, 2021, 03:28:51 pm
While the IoMTT is the pinnacle of Irish Road Racing, we tend to forget there are other races, similar to the IoM as well.  The first being the ManxGP which is also on the IoM, but more geared toward privateers and they also have the Classic TT at the same time.  Then there are the MacauGP in China, but considered part of the Irish Road Racing Circuit and of course many races on the roads of Ireland. 

These guys are all a tad off there rockers.  First, they race in super dangerous conditions and then they do it in more than one class.  Even the privateers with no bucks for a Superbike spec bike, will race in the Superbikes (if they qualify) with a Superstock 1000 bike.  Our own AJ Venter is guilty of this himself.  They have no chance, but do it for the " participation medal"  which is dished out to all who finished the prescribed 6 laps and who are still alive.

AJ Venter tells an interesting story.  It is how things happen at the IoM TT.  One of the electric bike classes lose their rider due to some serious tummy bug.  So the team manager walks up pit lane and says to AJ: "You seem free at the moment.  Would you like to ride our bike in the race later today?"  So AJ, immediately goes for it.  They walk over to their pits and AJ tells them he has never ridden one before.  They show him the controls, explain a few nitty gritty details and tell him to take the bike out on track.  AJ: "How many laps do you think I will get in for practise?"  Team Manager: "There are none.  You have this one to qualify and then the race in an hour!"   He qualified, raced, finished and remained alive.

That Team Manager is my mate, S.A. born Robbie Driver, son of the far more famous Paddy Driver.

 :thumleft:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: JustBendIt on September 20, 2021, 03:46:09 pm
I was fortunate to go to the IOM TT in 2017 - a couple of WDs came with me ... boere, Heddles, Frannarossi

Nothing can prepare you for how fast, how close and how dangerous it is ...absolutely mindblowing

An experience I will never forget

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: IceCreamMan on September 20, 2021, 03:55:04 pm
IOM racers balls are to big for modern motogp bikes so probably would not be able to overcome the extra weight.

But horses for courses i spose.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 04:17:43 pm
How would a MotoGP bike do on the Isle of Man track? Obviously with a rider that knows the track.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: DUSTRIDERS on September 20, 2021, 04:29:59 pm
Watching this stuff is addictive!!!

Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Sabre on September 20, 2021, 07:48:34 pm
How would a MotoGP bike do on the Isle of Man track? Obviously with a rider that knows the track.
The bike itself will do very well. Better power to weight ratio than any IOM Superbike, lighter and more nimble. If you look at lap times of MotoGP and WSBK on same circuits it is clear that the MotoGP bikes are faster.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Altie7deLaan on September 20, 2021, 07:52:05 pm
Wonder how much juice a motogp bike will slurp in a 6 lap race.
IOM TT stats, 100 events and 260 fatalities....eish
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 20, 2021, 08:02:02 pm
How would a MotoGP bike do on the Isle of Man track? Obviously with a rider that knows the track.
The bike itself will do very well. Better power to weight ratio than any IOM Superbike, lighter and more nimble. If you look at lap times of MotoGP and WSBK on same circuits it is clear that the MotoGP bikes are faster.


No, not really. I watched a race in which Joey Dunlop wonon a "works" SP1 engined Homda, and Joey said afterwards that it was really hard work around the course on the "high-tuned" engine.

Mike Hailwood summed it up well when asked about racing on the Island; "See it as fast touring, rather than GP racing"

MotoGP is the sharp end of the motorcycle racing world, and few if any IOM riders would make a MotoGP champion.

I am also not sure if a MotoGP rider could muster the courage/attitude to do the Island.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: boere on September 20, 2021, 08:04:41 pm
I was fortunate to go to the IOM TT in 2017 - a couple of WDs came with me ... boere, Heddles, Frannarossi

Nothing can prepare you for how fast, how close and how dangerous it is ...absolutely mindblowing

An experience I will never forget
Yes that was one hell of an experience. :3some: :3some:

Would love to go again but then the boys must go with me.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: JustBendIt on September 20, 2021, 08:32:50 pm
How would a MotoGP bike do on the Isle of Man track? Obviously with a rider that knows the track.
The bike itself will do very well. Better power to weight ratio than any IOM Superbike, lighter and more nimble. If you look at lap times of MotoGP and WSBK on same circuits it is clear that the MotoGP bikes are faster.

Suspension will need to be softened and completely retuned - the TT is on a public road and thus is quite bumpy in comparison to a racetrack

Would be epic to see a GP bike at the TT
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Sabre on September 20, 2021, 08:38:23 pm
Watching the MotoGP yesterday and having watched a lot of Isle of Man TT and green lane racing the last two weeks I was wondering what would happen if any of the top Isle of Man TT riders were to be put on a MotoGP bike? How long would it take for them to be competitive if at all?

I know to put a MotoGP rider on the Isle of Man would be murder as it takes years to "learn" that track.

What say you how would  Michael Dunlop or Bruce Anstey and others do on a MotoGP bike?

I think it is a very difficult call to make, due to the fact that the tracks and the bikes are very different. 

There are some of them who race in British Superbikes on occasion.  Peter Hickman who has won the Macau GP (similar to IOM) and the IOM TT did race in BSB for some years, but his best was 7th or 9th in the championship.  In the 80s Ron Haslam won the MacauGP six years running and one of two IOM races as well.  He raced MotoGP (then 500cc smokers), but never really inpressed.

So, my opinion is that the Irish Road Racing riders (which includes the IOM TT) won't feature in MotoGP.  The bikes and type of racing is just way too different.  The other way around today, would be the same.  No chance a MotoGP rider will win the IOM.  That said, up to the 70's they did so once a year as the IOM TT was the British Grand Prix.

Peter Hickman has won one BSB race this season, for the rest he is a mid-fielder

Dean Harrison runs at the back in BSB, yet does very well in IOM
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 20, 2021, 09:40:49 pm
A good pointer is to compare lean andles of the bikes to each other, MotoGP goes waayyy lower than the roadrace guys, which indicates that their cornering speed is higher.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: voorvel on September 20, 2021, 10:43:20 pm
Yep
Back in the day, the master, aka Stoner,  went beyond 70°
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: BuRP on September 21, 2021, 12:29:41 am
Yep
Back in the day, the master, aka Stoner,  went beyond 70°

I'd love to believe that - because I agree with your nomenclature Master - but, eh, not even Haga did  ;)
You see, the lean angle directly translates to the friction coefficient (I'll explain that on a napkin to anyone interested), and although 60-odd (on a horizontal road mind!) is attained regularly 70 is not yet doable.... but wait, they will get there soon I reckon!  :P
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: BuRP on September 21, 2021, 12:33:02 am
which indicates that their cornering speed is higher.

Sure, 'course, but also their tyres differ, my guess is substantially so even, and with those the friction coefficient aka lean angle possible.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: Bliknęrs on September 21, 2021, 07:10:24 am
If a MotoGP rider have an oopsie, he can be back on his spare bike in minutes and continue. To them falling off is part of finding out what the limits are, and not a life threatening event like in road racing.
That mindset will also play a role in success or not in the other discipline. Just as much as tires, lean angles,electronic aids and suspension settings.
I watched a documentary over the weekend where Joan Mir attributed a crash to a clouds shadow over a corner which resulted in a lower temperature and less grip. If that is true it indicates how on the edge they are and how fcucked they will be in road racing.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: voorvel on September 21, 2021, 08:10:26 am
Yep
Back in the day, the master, aka Stoner,  went beyond 70°

I'd love to believe that - because I agree with your nomenclature Master - but, eh, not even Haga did  ;)
You see, the lean angle directly translates to the friction coefficient (I'll explain that on a napkin to anyone interested), and although 60-odd (on a horizontal road mind!) is attained regularly 70 is not yet doable.... but wait, they will get there soon I reckon!  :P

Ek het bolllie gepraat.
Hier doen hy 69°
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: BuRP on September 21, 2021, 08:46:34 am
Hier doen hy 69

Magtig dis pragtig!
Lyk heeltemaal anderste as wanneer ek dit doen!
Baie meer klere ook....
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: jaybiker on September 21, 2021, 11:27:35 am
For a number of years 1967 - 81 TT week was part of my annual holiday. I also went to the Manx Grand Prix (for 'amateurs') held in September and the Manx 2 day trial (foot up) took place the same week. In the later days of the GP 500 two strokes it was reckoned that they would not last a full TT race because the chassis were not robust enough and would crack up on the bumpy Manx roads.

Having said that though my main impression nowadays is how much the circuit has been 'tamed'. Smoother, wider, and with special high grip surface laid in places.

But that's exactly what the old guys from before my time used to say to me!  :eek7:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: RobD on September 21, 2021, 11:30:26 am
Hier doen hy 69

Magtig dis pragtig!
Lyk heeltemaal anderste as wanneer ek dit doen!
Baie meer klere ook....

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: TheBear on September 21, 2021, 11:59:10 am
Wonder how much juice a motogp bike will slurp in a 6 lap race.
IOM TT stats, 100 events and 260 fatalities....eish

The Superbikes do 6 laps, but 2 laps at a time as they need to fill up and even change tyres at times.
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 21, 2021, 01:32:25 pm
Wonder how much juice a motogp bike will slurp in a 6 lap race.
IOM TT stats, 100 events and 260 fatalities....eish




These stats prove that MotoGp riders are much better riders than the IOM guys. :peepwall: :pot: :pot: :biggrin:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: jaybiker on September 21, 2021, 03:32:08 pm
IOM TT vs Moto GP?

Well, I'd happily spend seven hours or more sitting on top of a stone wall on a bare mountainside, getting painful sunburn or freezing to death in the rain. Yet I rather bugger off out and do something else than watch the other in the comfort of an armchair.  :-\
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: voorvel on September 21, 2021, 04:44:19 pm
Hier doen hy 69

Magtig dis pragtig!
Lyk heeltemaal anderste as wanneer ek dit doen!
Baie meer klere ook....

 :imaposer: :imaposer: :imaposer:

Probeer om dit nie te visualiseer nie, maar ek kan sien hoe Burp kaal, op n superbike, sy opponente kan afskrik
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: BuRP on September 21, 2021, 05:43:50 pm
Probeer om dit nie te visualiseer nie, maar ek kan sien hoe Burp kaal, op n superbike, sy opponente kan afskrik

Jy het die korrekte prentjie!
Maar moenie worrie nie want ek sal nie, dis baie gevaarlik...... dalk kom n ietsie tusse die speke hmm, en dit dan duidelik sonder enige proteksie?
Eitsa! :P
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: voorvel on September 21, 2021, 07:34:11 pm
Speke afbreek
 :xxbah:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: 2StrokeDan on September 21, 2021, 07:51:10 pm
Probeer om dit nie te visualiseer nie, maar ek kan sien hoe Burp kaal, op n superbike, sy opponente kan afskrik

Jy het die korrekte prentjie!
Maar moenie worrie nie want ek sal nie, dis baie gevaarlik...... dalk kom n ietsie tusse die speke hmm, en dit dan duidelik sonder enige proteksie?
Eitsa! :P



Dalk "kom" n ietsie tussen die speke....... :eek7:
Title: Re: MotoGP vs Isle of Man TT.
Post by: TheBear on September 23, 2021, 09:55:14 am
IOM TT stats, 100 events and 260 fatalities....eish

Not to diminish the danger in any way, the figure includes the Manx GP.