Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Riding: Plan, Report and Racing => Racing Section => Topic started by: 1WayRay on June 23, 2009, 10:48:58 am

Title: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: 1WayRay on June 23, 2009, 10:48:58 am
So guys, I have a question regarding dirt bikes which will hopefully spark a good debate.

Which dirt bike(Plastic bike) is the toughest, most bullet proof and cheapest to maintain. I assume it will probably be a 2stroke.
Lets put performance of the bike second to the reliability.

Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: shark_za on June 23, 2009, 10:50:13 am
No brainer.

Its Japanese its 2-stroke and its green.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Q8 on June 23, 2009, 10:56:55 am
I agree on that one Shark - it's as reliable as an anvil
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: RobC on June 23, 2009, 11:16:34 am
Some would differ on the colour though... the Blue Nipponese seems to be the most reasonable on parts costs?
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: shark_za on June 23, 2009, 11:19:07 am
The greenies have this team green parts promotion.
Seems they pushed it for a while and then forgot to increase it when the promotion was over.
I kid you not.

By far the cheapest for offroad parts.

Second is the piano makers.

Specifically the KDX200 for reliability and durability.

Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: 1WayRay on June 23, 2009, 11:26:10 am
Thanks for the replies, it is as I thought. Thinking of something to add to the stable next to the XChallenge. I take it most 2strokes are reliable, including the 250's?
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: sidetrack on June 23, 2009, 01:02:26 pm
None all will be riddled with bullet holes  :peepwall:
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on June 23, 2009, 01:11:10 pm
On the matter of 2 smoke reliability, anybody have any experiance with Gas Gas 300? I would like to ad a 300 playbike to the collection. I'm currently using a Beta 525 and the Gas Gas suspention is basicly the same. Other bikes in class would be the KTM and the TM, any comment?
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: edgy on June 23, 2009, 01:16:04 pm
You`re now going below the belt!
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: lightning1 on June 23, 2009, 05:47:07 pm
I agree with Shark - it has to be the KDX.

Ray, remember that you did say to ignore performance, and included in that must be suspension. 
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Stev0 on June 23, 2009, 10:55:05 pm
2 stroke . KDX200

4stroke Yamaha 450  yz/wr
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: 1WayRay on June 23, 2009, 11:36:29 pm
2 stroke . KDX200

4stroke Yamaha 450  yz/wr

Definitely love the 450's,but cant afford one.

I agree with Shark - it has to be the KDX.
Ray, remember that you did say to ignore performance, and included in that must be suspension. 

That is something to seriously consider, as suspension can make or break a bike. Perhaps I should look at a kx250 then

Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Manic on June 23, 2009, 11:42:34 pm
Quote
Definitely love the 450's,but cant afford one

Bud of mine had his CRF 450 stolen in 2005. It is a 2004 model.

The phoned him yesterday and he collected the bike. It was found in a crate with 50 other 2 wheelers at the Mosambiek border 2mnths ago!!!

Still the same condition as the day the stole it.

By the sound of things he is going to sell it for R20 000.

But remember it will be a stolen and recovered bike then.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Stev0 on June 24, 2009, 12:08:20 am
Quote
Definitely love the 450's,but cant afford one

Bud of mine had his CRF 450 stolen in 2005. It is a 2004 model.

The phoned him yesterday and he collected the bike. It was found in a crate with 50 other 2 wheelers at the Mosambiek border 2mnths ago!!!

Still the same condition as the day the stole it.

By the sound of things he is going to sell it for R20 000.

But remember it will be a stolen and recovered bike then.

does not matter ... its a toy... its going to be ridden like its stolen too.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: 1WayRay on June 24, 2009, 09:33:02 am
Bud of mine had his CRF 450 stolen in 2005. It is a 2004 model.

The phoned him yesterday and he collected the bike. It was found in a crate with 50 other 2 wheelers at the Mosambiek border 2mnths ago!!!

Still the same condition as the day the stole it.

By the sound of things he is going to sell it for R20 000.

But remember it will be a stolen and recovered bike then.

I am interested, give him my details, or pm me his details.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: lightning1 on June 24, 2009, 10:09:13 am
Ray, the KX is a great bike, but not appropriate for enduro-type riding, and you will have to make a lot of changes. I am sure Shark and Jayman will agree with me, as they have probably seen it as well, a MX bike suffers at De Wildt, and just boils in the riverbed before 3-fences.

It is horses for courses, and I personally would only get a KTM, but the Honda's and Yamaha's are also very good enduro bikes. Of course this is all subjective! 
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on June 24, 2009, 10:37:21 am
Guys

May I add my 2c here? I've ridden enduro bikes for 35 years, both competitively and socially, so i've got a little bit of experience with them. I also maintain and modify my own bikes and am a mechanical engineer by profession - so hopefully I know a little bit about the mechanical side of things :biggrin:

This thread is about the most bulletproof dirtbike. I concur with others about the KDX200. Bulletproof BUT late 1980's technology. Ideal bike for a newcomer but suffers badly is whoops etc. Ideal bike for slow snotty riding.

On the four stroke front the only bikes which appear to not have the head problem are the Yamaha's. YZ/WR 250/400/426/450. I own a 2001 WR 250F which I have modified fairly extensively. HOTCAMS, Pro-circuit pipe and silencer, airbox and airfilter etc. This little bike hauls. I do the usual 4X maintenance. Airfilter clean every ride, chain lube, and oil replacement every 5 hours or so. To date, 8 years later, I am still on the original piston and rings and the valve clearances are still within spec! Talk about reliability!

Speaking to riding buddies who have been the red, yellow, green and orange 4x route, they all agree that only the blue bikes seem to have the high perfomance 4x reliability issue sorted.

Do'nt know what you guys think, but my vote thus goes as follows:

1. 2x -KDX200 or any blue 250
2. 4x - Any blue 250/400/426/450
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Stev0 on June 24, 2009, 11:09:38 am
Guys

May I add my 2c here? I've ridden enduro bikes for 35 years, both competitively and socially, so i've got a little bit of experience with them. I also maintain and modify my own bikes and am a mechanical engineer by profession - so hopefully I know a little bit about the mechanical side of things :biggrin:

This thread is about the most bulletproof dirtbike. I concur with others about the KDX200. Bulletproof BUT late 1980's technology. Ideal bike for a newcomer but suffers badly is whoops etc. Ideal bike for slow snotty riding.

On the four stroke front the only bikes which appear to not have the head problem are the Yamaha's. YZ/WR 250/400/426/450. I own a 2001 WR 250F which I have modified fairly extensively. HOTCAMS, Pro-circuit pipe and silencer, airbox and airfilter etc. This little bike hauls. I do the usual 4X maintenance. Airfilter clean every ride, chain lube, and oil replacement every 5 hours or so. To date, 8 years later, I am still on the original piston and rings and the valve clearances are still within spec! Talk about reliability!

Speaking to riding buddies who have been the red, yellow, green and orange 4x route, they all agree that only the blue bikes seem to have the high perfomance 4x reliability issue sorted.

Do'nt know what you guys think, but my vote thus goes as follows:

1. 2x -KDX200 or any blue 250
2. 4x - Any blue 250/400/426/450

KDX200 is the perfect girl bike...  or if well set up will crawl up anything.

Ditto on the blue... I wont buy any other MX bike.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Twiggy on June 26, 2009, 06:02:57 pm
Kdx 200 is the perfect girls bike? Ouch. Well than i must be the perfect girl than cos i ride 1. Thanks stev0.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Stev0 on June 26, 2009, 06:13:17 pm
Kdx 200 is the perfect girls bike? Ouch. Well than i must be the perfect girl than cos i ride 1. Thanks stev0.


Mild enough for a girl to ride :)
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Twiggy on June 26, 2009, 06:20:43 pm
Ha ha. Just causing:).
Every guy that sees me riding it tells me 2 get my butt off a 2 stroke cos it's harder 2 ride, and heavier than your average 4 stroke 250-apparently, and it's super tall.
But i agree it's an awesome bike.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Stev0 on June 26, 2009, 06:30:09 pm
In Stock form, its one of the offroad bikes to learn on.

I tought my gf to ride on a Zongshen loaner, then she took a KLE500 for a spin soon after that a CBR1000 and now she occaisionally rides the WR ... but only when i make her!



Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: chicco on June 26, 2009, 06:35:04 pm
2 Steke - KDX 200
4 Steke - CRF 230
650 - KLR (Old shape)
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Stev0 on June 26, 2009, 06:39:50 pm
KLR is hardly a dirtbike!
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Mark Hardy on June 26, 2009, 08:42:16 pm
Guys

May I add my 2c here? I've ridden enduro bikes for 35 years, both competitively and socially, so i've got a little bit of experience with them. I also maintain and modify my own bikes and am a mechanical engineer by profession - so hopefully I know a little bit about the mechanical side of things :biggrin:

This thread is about the most bulletproof dirtbike. I concur with others about the KDX200. Bulletproof BUT late 1980's technology. Ideal bike for a newcomer but suffers badly is whoops etc. Ideal bike for slow snotty riding.

On the four stroke front the only bikes which appear to not have the head problem are the Yamaha's. YZ/WR 250/400/426/450. I own a 2001 WR 250F which I have modified fairly extensively. HOTCAMS, Pro-circuit pipe and silencer, airbox and airfilter etc. This little bike hauls. I do the usual 4X maintenance. Airfilter clean every ride, chain lube, and oil replacement every 5 hours or so. To date, 8 years later, I am still on the original piston and rings and the valve clearances are still within spec! Talk about reliability!

Speaking to riding buddies who have been the red, yellow, green and orange 4x route, they all agree that only the blue bikes seem to have the high perfomance 4x reliability issue sorted.

Do'nt know what you guys think, but my vote thus goes as follows:

1. 2x -KDX200 or any blue 250
2. 4x - Any blue 250/400/426/450

+1
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on June 29, 2009, 12:28:25 pm
guys

If this thread had been titled "most desirable plastic bike" I would have voted as follows"

2 Stroke:

1. KTM 200 or 300 EXC
2. Yamaha 250 YZ

4 stroke

1. Yamaha 250/450 YZF/WRF
2. KTM 250/450

Had the opportunity to ride a KTM 200 in anger a few years back. What a bike! Light as a 125 with amazing power! Made me HATE the KDX 200 I had at the time!
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on June 29, 2009, 12:42:21 pm
Not so sure about the blue 4 strokers, got a WR250f, 08 model motor gone again for the 3rd time now, eish. Very expensive bike to run.  :xxbah:

My 06 Beta 525 has never missed a beat, cheap to maintain (for a 4 stroke), strong as a ox!
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: 1WayRay on June 29, 2009, 12:43:51 pm
guys

If this thread had been titled "most desirable plastic bike" I would have voted as follows"


Thanks Fario, I think that this is perhaps more the question I should have been asking !!! I think your opinion on this is quite helpful. It and what I have taken from everyone else has now got me looking for a KTM/WR.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Mark Hardy on June 29, 2009, 12:45:47 pm
Not so sure about the blue 4 strokers, got a WR250f, 08 model motor gone again for the 3rd time now, eish. Very expensive bike to run.  :xxbah:

My 06 Beta 525 has never missed a beat, cheap to maintain (for a 4 stroke), strong as a ox!

What ahappen to the motor...details please
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on June 29, 2009, 01:07:34 pm
Motor seized solid, won't even turn, me thinks the headgasket went again. It was gushing out water just agter it locked up. Will take it to Runner this week for a look see. The first time it blew a oil return pipe, moter seized. Take 2 was broken rings....will not name the shop that "fixed" it.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Mark Hardy on June 29, 2009, 01:08:49 pm
Interesting info.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on June 29, 2009, 01:14:09 pm
I will get feedback on the reason for the failure and report all.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Stev0 on June 29, 2009, 01:18:11 pm
should of bought a 450...  :pot:
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on June 29, 2009, 02:59:45 pm
Smilye

Sorry to hear about your Yammie! No one brand is impervious to defects and breakages. A lot depends on maintenance etc. Losing an oil or water pipe on ANY internal combustion engine is going to causing overheating and subsequent damage. On average the blue bikes have proved to be tougher than most wrt motor failures.

Secondly, comparing a 525 to a 250 or 450 is not really valid is it? The lighter bikes will kill you in real offroad riding. I'm not big and strong enough to hold a 525 in heavy sand whoops and I do'nt know many who are! For trail riding I'd consider a 525 or XR 600/650 but not for serious enduro type riding. Imho an offroad bike needs to be LIGHT with good frame design and suspension. That's why the KTM 200's are so desirable. 125 weight with 250 power. For 99% of casual riders you do not need more power than this little motor can produce.

Anyway, that's just my 2c worth.

Fario

Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on June 29, 2009, 03:30:22 pm
Yep Fario you are right on most aspects, one can not blame a component failure on a make or model.
The 250 4t was there as a light playbike, plenty of fun but I always felt it needed just a bit more power.
I love the 525, yes it might be a bit of a handfull in the heavy stuff but makes up for it in most other aspects, the suspention on the Beta makes for a eazy ride and with fitness and plenty time in the saddle she aint that bad. Actually I prefer the bigger bike of late in the rocky stuff. Again that might be due to the suspenton setup as both climp very well.
I am now looking at getting a 2t bike again, as I like the low down power I will be looking at the 300's, just not sure of the color. What would be the more reliable of the lot?
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on June 29, 2009, 04:08:37 pm
Smilye

I've never owned an orange bike (HATE the pumpkin colour). However, two of my riding buddies had KTM 300's and I had opportunities to ride these from time to time (whenever they wanted to ride my blue bike to get a real suspension "fix" :biggrin:). Those KTM 300's are the business for enduro/offroad work. What other 300's are there really? TM? Parts and resale issues I'm sure. Go orange, you'll be happy. Down here in CT I would go for the 200 but on the reef the 250/300 2t capacity is proa\bably better. I agree with you on one other issue. In your area a 525 will be ok but down here in the Cape we have SAND, and lots of it! I can ride faster and longer down here on a 125 than anything else. That's why I bought a WR 250F. This is, in essence, a modern day 125. Lightweight 4t motor in a YZ125 chassis. Make it lighter still by stripping off the uneccessary bits and you've got a killer bike for racing.

Shit! Did I just recommend that somebody buys and orange bike? Must be getting soft in the head :biggrin:

Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on June 29, 2009, 04:37:41 pm
 :laughing4: :laughing4: :laughing4:

Yep, must be the cold weather messing with your mind. I too do not like the oranje plastics, but then I do love the big ones, go figure. The only other option would be Gas Gas, similar suspention to the Beta, but is it reliable? My riding buddy is on a TM 300, nice bike but does not feel right...donno why.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on June 30, 2009, 03:02:47 pm
Smilye

Gas gas? Spanish bikes - eesh! Reputed to be good, I suppose. Spanish = trials, Austrian = Enduros and Rally's. MX = anything from Japan plus a sprinkling of orange, SX = Japan. That's how it was, is and forever will be. ;D

Trail riding? Big, lazy four strokes plus the odd KDX 200.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: tsa on July 01, 2009, 11:23:04 am
So how far can one go on a KDX in a day? Is it comfortable? Tank range?
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Kenisis on July 01, 2009, 12:03:00 pm
Boys and Girls.

I have a 2007 CRF 450 that has raced the Desert Challenge. 2 years on and i had one hiccup with an oil seal. Something to do with 50 Deg desert temps.

Other than that nothing. Acually boring.

I must be honest. I have seen 1 yes One Blue bike in the sand here.

Mostly its Honda Crf 450/X or KTM, 450/530 and the rare Rm.

So for me Red and Orange!.

 
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: JonW on July 01, 2009, 12:35:23 pm
So how far can one go on a KDX in a day? Is it comfortable? Tank range?

If you want a bike that you can comfortably ride any sort of long distance on then you should not be looking at a KDX. The tank holds about 10 liters, but range will depend on the terrain you are riding in.

But if you want a play bike that  you can throw around a tight technical track and will never let you down, then the KDX is the way to go.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on July 02, 2009, 11:49:03 am
Some how I don't get it, why would a "discontinued" bike with 20 your old technology be the bike to have. Are you all saying that nothing good was made since the KDX200 came out? Nothing at all? Why then does KTM, Yamaha, Honda even bother with new models? Have they not made 1 other reliable bike, does this KDX never brake? Ever? But all other bikes just fall apart the moment you take them out of the crate?

I think the KDX200 is long past its sell by date, move on get something new... :peepwall:
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on July 02, 2009, 01:50:43 pm
Smilye

You've read my comments and recommendations earlier, so I'm not going to repeat them. It seems, to me, that new riders to the plastic world will migrate to the KDX whereas the riders who know the enduro/mx field, will almost certainly go for a better, newer technology bike. In my case, after having owned a string of YZ's and RM's, I somehow ended up with a KDX and spent a lot of money modifying it to get it to perform. Eventually I gave up as I realized that I was fighting a losing battle and went out and bought a new WR250F. The KDX has a tractor like motor with mediocre frame and suspension and cannot handle whoops or jumps. For moseying around it is perfect but there are far better bikes around for the intermediate rider. In essence, the KDX was the 2 T equivalent of the XR. You could race them but a slightly more dedicated bike made your life easier.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on July 02, 2009, 02:34:58 pm
Smilye

There is a KTM 200 advertised on this forum in the "Trade" section. In Gauteng. Also a KDX 200. Take them for a test ride and feed back.
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Rock Rabbit on July 02, 2009, 03:20:51 pm
KDX 200 for a beginner or a cash strapped weekend warrior on the 2 strokes. YZ with WR box or KTM 250 excw.
Definitely WR 450F in the 4 stroke world( 8 WR's in our group). Ive got 5500kms on my 2005 WR and never opened the engine. All the bits are in spec.Never used a drop of extra oil or water. Now thats reliability.
Just replacing suspension bearings and seals now.

RR
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Chukudeer on July 02, 2009, 03:51:59 pm
  ::) ::)  >:D Thanks Fario, actually just stirring. I have had a KDX200, found the suspention to be bad, the bike underpowered (for what I expected at the time) and rather expensive to run, lots of little niggels. But everybody still raves about it, sorry I don't get it, must be me.
I also have an older KTM250 2t, plenty of power but she bites the unwary and you need to keep her revved up on big climbs. She does love sandy whoops even with the WP suspention. (I do not like the KTM direct rear suspention setup but again that is my opinion. I have had far less issues with the KTM than I had with the KDX.
Getting lazy I like the big bore power of the 4strokes. Yes, I have forgotten how to use a back brake....I do not like the Jap bike setup, it is more of a sit on top than the KTM tipe sit in feeling. Yet I seem to be faster on the WR250f than on the 525. That might be because of a lack of brass balls, as the big 525 is a scary beast. I prefer the Mazocci suspention over the WP or the Yamaha, but thats me. That is why I will be going Gas Gas, good motor, few problems, proper suspention for what I do.
Actually I was fishing for any bad reports on the Gas Gas that might sway my opinion.
Thanks for the advise.  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Which dirt bike is the most bulletproof ?
Post by: Fario on July 03, 2009, 09:14:30 am
Good luck with the Gas Gas. One of my riding mates had a 200 and found it to be a good, reliable bike. Hope you'll be happy with it