Wild Dog Adventure Riding

General => General Bike Related Banter => Topic started by: WF on October 28, 2009, 03:15:31 pm

Title: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: WF on October 28, 2009, 03:15:31 pm
Hi Everyone ! Its time for my son to get himself to and from school. So just wanted your opinion on the 125cc bikes. Yamaha 2 stroke or honda 4 stroke ? He will be doing around 60km a day of mostly open road. He is quite a big lad at 87kg.It will need to be the on/off road versions of either bike.
I have no experience on the modern 4 strokes but always considered the small 4 stroke to be a real dog .
Any comment ?
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 03:20:06 pm
I will prefer the dt 125, great power and very enjoying! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Snafu on October 28, 2009, 03:38:37 pm
Your key is probably in the km's

He is going to add up a lot, and in that case the 4 stroke might be better ....... or not?
Someone please give us advice, i would also like to know.

performance wise, defnitely the DT
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 03:42:01 pm
Yamaha also have a 125 4 Stroke(xtz125) ,only problem is that it is discontued so rather go honda 4 stroke nxr!
These 4 strokes have good power,not a lot,but to get from point A to point B ,they are great! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Eisbein on October 28, 2009, 03:45:27 pm
Your key is probably in the km's

He is going to add up a lot, and in that case the 4 stroke might be better ....... or not?
Someone please give us advice, i would also like to know.

performance wise, defnitely the DT

That's my thinking as well.

2 Stroke is heavier on juice (and uses twe stroke duh) and the perception is that the 2T motors was never designed for lots of highway type kilometers.

Like Snafu I am also mainly guessing here.

Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Martin-DR650 on October 28, 2009, 04:18:31 pm
Listen: You dont even have ask this question . . .Anyway,im going to give you the best advice!

2Stroke - Is a thing of the past,Forget bout it. . .(from the smell,to the fuel and oil mixing to the smoking,the noise ect.)

4stroke is the future - Just get a Honda NXR125 - As everyone said,and it is true,The little motor is BULLET PROOF!!

Fill the tank up (13L) and you can get about 300km without reserve (another 50/60km) out of it! ! !

I toured with mine with the bigger bikes,So the NXR is well capable of it . . .I have even seen guys riding it in dunes :deal:

So there you have it,You cant go wrong!

Tell your son:I say he must enjoy his NXR,Cause I hade sum of the best times in my life on mine!! 8)

Cheers

Martin :thumleft:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Snafu on October 28, 2009, 04:24:10 pm
So Mr Martin, what about the superior performance of the 2T ?
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Varadero on October 28, 2009, 04:26:37 pm
WF since you are in the Gauteng area give Linex Yamaha a shout and see if they still have that awesome used little DT175 available, was marked at R18k or thereabouts with hardly any mileage  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Etienne2T on October 28, 2009, 04:27:28 pm
I'd get the dt- cheaper to run/maintain and allot more performance
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Adventurer on October 28, 2009, 04:29:31 pm
250cc with 125cc sticker kit.... :biggrin:

No matter what 125 you get in the 4-stroke range, it will kark with 87kg on board...
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Varadero on October 28, 2009, 04:31:08 pm
I'd get the dt- cheaper to run/maintain and allot more performance

And this from someone who rode the proverbial "kak" out of his NXR125  :ricky: Eish, imagine if you had had a DT 175 instead of the NXR, doubt you would have gone to school at all  ;D
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Etienne2T on October 28, 2009, 04:32:40 pm
Bhaahahaha! :imaposer:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Snafu on October 28, 2009, 04:35:19 pm
I'd get the dt- cheaper to run/maintain and allot more performance

Etienne, can you give me some figures on what your statement is based on?
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: IceCreamMan on October 28, 2009, 04:36:24 pm
performace wise 2 T is way better ...

i had an xtz125e ..nice lil bike with a disk up front ...great economy and reliable but a bit on the slow side. if i were to be in the market again i would go 2 stroke ...
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Etienne2T on October 28, 2009, 04:45:30 pm
Snafu:
Main thing is parts prices, especially becuase its a starter bike, he is going to fall and break stuff.
Honda nxr parts:
Oem rear sprocket R900!
Front mudguard R1 000!
The parts are waaaay overpriced.
Yamaha's parts are dirt cheap, a rear sprocket is like R130, thats R770 cheaper than honda...
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Martin-DR650 on October 28, 2009, 04:48:08 pm
If seen that DT125,It has a little bit more of a pull . . .But if you want to ride long distances and stuff the 4stroke is gonna be your best option.

Wait till he's 18,and then buy a proper bike with power!!

So thats my advice . . I mean,I hate 2stroke >:D

Up to you . . .
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 04:49:05 pm
Snafu:
Main thing is parts prices, especially becuase its a starter bike, he is going to fall and break stuff.
Honda nxr parts:
Oem rear sprocket R900!
Front mudguard R1 000!
The parts are waaaay overpriced.
Yamaha's parts are dirt cheap, a rear sprocket is like R130, thats R770 cheaper than honda...
About 2 months ago i have had my sprockets and chain changed,I have a Yami xtz 125e.Cost me a total of R1150.
My friend had to change his aswell, he paid more around R2K,he owns a Honda Nxr125(bross)
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Varadero on October 28, 2009, 04:52:10 pm
Nothing like the smell of 2 stroke first thing in the morning, also nothing like the sound of a 2 stroke taking off from a jump  :thumleft:
ringdingding still rocks
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Martin-DR650 on October 28, 2009, 04:53:12 pm
Et,You dont buy that parts from HONDA -Are you mad,They are faarking crazy . . .

And not every one falls as much as you . . . .LOL ;D

I can remember,I payed like R150 + R100 for a front and rear sprocket,Thats after market . .

The drum brakes you can take to a place to refill,or make them like new again,not expensive at all.

The NXR is gonna be the better option between the two bikes.! :deal:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 04:53:36 pm
Nothing like the smell of 2 stroke first thing in the morning, also nothing like the sound of a 2 stroke taking off from a jump  :thumleft:
ringdingding still rocks
I still love 2 strokes not a great sound with standard exhaust,but with an FMF ,waaahhoooo.GREAT!!!! :thumleft:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Martin-DR650 on October 28, 2009, 05:03:16 pm
I went to go dig up sum old paperwork now from my NXR - A front sprocket I bought

PBR Bologna-Italy:
R140

 . . . . Uhm,Ok thats all I could find,and a bunch of rear sprockets and chains,but not so expensive as you saying . .
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 05:05:06 pm
I went to go dig up sum old paperwork now from my NXR - A front sprocket I bought

PBR Bologna-Italy:
R140

 . . . . Uhm,Ok thats all I could find,and a bunch of rear sprockets and chains,but not so expensive as you saying . .
My friend bought OEM part and had them fitted and I think that is what cost him a lot of money
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Etienne2T on October 28, 2009, 05:05:11 pm
I said R900 for the OEM sprocket
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Martin-DR650 on October 28, 2009, 05:12:41 pm
G!!!Thats alot hay . . . :o
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 05:13:43 pm
I said R900 for the OEM sprocket
Was that for only 1 sprocket or is that chain and both sprockets??
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Etienne2T on October 28, 2009, 05:15:56 pm
Rear sprocket only.
I had myself a bigger (57t) rear sprocket waterjetted for half the price
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 05:18:18 pm
man OEm part are expensive,cant believe that my friend didnt try aftermarket or something. ???
HONDA OWNERS MUST HAVE LOTS OF MONEY!
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: SUPERMOTO-GP on October 28, 2009, 05:19:38 pm
you see if you are in a hurry ,you waste money, you must have a look around
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Tommy Transalp on October 28, 2009, 06:17:27 pm
Check out the latest Quad/off road Magazine.(Nov issue)
There's a maljan that took a 125 Honda from England to South Africa ...... TWO _UP!!!
No problems with the bike to speak of.
Will a 2-stroke do this? (Specially when you moer the sump-plug out, seize the bike, fill it with diesel oil , and it keeps going!)
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Martin-DR650 on October 28, 2009, 06:20:27 pm
Check out the latest Quad/off road Magazine.(Nov issue)
There's a maljan that took a 125 Honda from England to South Africa ...... TWO _UP!!!
No problems with the bike to speak of.
Will a 2-stroke do this? (Specially when you moer the sump-plug out, seize the bike, fill it with diesel oil , and it keeps going!)

You get a gold star my friend! +10
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: 2 Stroke Dan on October 28, 2009, 06:42:18 pm
The 2stroke does not even have a engine oil sump plug at all! If your 87KG laaitie is connected to a ham-fisted wrist, you will soon be
coughing up dearly for valves as well!
The 4stroke is slightly more economical, but it should be with so much less power.
You buy a bike from Honda, then all the spares pirate, soon you sit with a moegoe-mobile.
Buy the stroker from Yam and also all it's parts, economical!

Tell me, Martin, why do you hate 2strokes?
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: WF on October 28, 2009, 07:49:11 pm
Thanks for all the advice guys, although there seems to be no clear answer.My son is not new to riding, presently rides a WR 450 so either way he is going to be dissapointed.
But this will be purely for school and back. The 175 or 250 with 125 sticker is tempting but when things go wrong as they can do i think the insurance and legal problems could be serious. The registration docs will ulimately say 175or 250 so legaly he would be un- lisensed.

Im biased to the Yamaha cos i grew up with 175 DT'S but notice at the school only Honda's .
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Plothond on October 28, 2009, 07:55:37 pm
Hello Dirty Darryl,  ;D

Get him the 690 - You know YOU will like it  :thumleft:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: 2 Stroke Dan on October 28, 2009, 07:57:12 pm
Only negative about the Yam DT is its dated styling, important to young ones[and most older ones too]
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: shark_za on October 28, 2009, 08:21:03 pm
If you sieze the DT you will spend less than 2k to get it going again, about 6k or more on the 4-strokes.

Ride them now before they are banned.
Give the kid some memories at least.
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Martin-DR650 on October 28, 2009, 08:33:37 pm
Thanks for all the advice guys, although there seems to be no clear answer.My son is not new to riding, presently rides a WR 450 so either way he is going to be dissapointed.
But this will be purely for school and back. The 175 or 250 with 125 sticker is tempting but when things go wrong as they can do i think the insurance and legal problems could be serious. The registration docs will ulimately say 175or 250 so legaly he would be un- lisensed.

Im biased to the Yamaha cos i grew up with 175 DT'S but notice at the school only Honda's .

 :eek7:
So let him deside what he wants. . .He's the 0ne who's gonna be riding it! :deal:
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: 2 Stroke Dan on October 28, 2009, 08:36:40 pm
Yes, SharkZa, you're so right, future riders will soon have no choice of any 2stroke, so Martin leave your son with decent stories to tell!
The Americans say there's no substitute for cubic inches in a 4stroke. This is true, a small 4stroke is just a piece of shit.
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Cane Rat on October 28, 2009, 09:31:11 pm
Bought my son a NXR 125 not so long ago. He's also quite a tall lad. Seems like a nice little bike despite the fact that I am not a Honda fan. I compared it with a similar looking Chinese disposable and found that they look pretty much the same. Only obvious differences were the disposable had upside down forks and disc barkes front and back whereas the Honda doesn't. I really think Honda could have done better with that little bike.

I've never liked 2 smokes. They're noisy and they stink, but yeah, they do go better than 4 strokes.
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: 2 Stroke Dan on October 28, 2009, 09:38:54 pm
2strokes are noisy because you take the baffle out, and they stink because you dont understand the ratio measurements!

Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: GRIM on October 29, 2009, 09:35:37 am
I've been commuting on a DT175 for the last 2 weeks, 100kg & 6 foot 4... and it's an awesome little bike. I can do highway with it, but it prefers side roads, it Wheelies quite happily with me on it.
Off road is great, it handles rocks, mud, sand, logs, everything with ease.

I have ridden the Honda 4 stroke 125, and can honestly say there is no comparison - 4 stroke will get you there, 2 stroke will get you there with a grin.

Let me know if you need a test ride.
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: WF on October 29, 2009, 04:07:46 pm
Hi Plothond , if i buy him the 690 he will definitly never be at school !
Thanks to everyone for the thoughts. Dylan is partial to the DT , rides a WR450 so knows and likes Yamaha.
He had a seriously bad experience with a Gas Gas 300 2 STROKE, seized it properly ! I accused him of riding it flat out for too long , something i said 2 strokes dont like. Anyways since then he has really been against 2 stroke.
We use the Yamaha AG 200's on our farm its a 4 stroke but has no where near the go of the older 175 2 strokes we used to have.
If anyone out there is in the business or has either a very clean Yamaha or Honda id appreciate hearing from you.
 
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Rob_A on October 29, 2009, 05:23:04 pm
Yes, SharkZa, you're so right, future riders will soon have no choice of any 2stroke, so Martin leave your son with decent stories to tell!
The Americans say there's no substitute for cubic inches in a 4stroke. This is true, a small 4stroke is just a piece of shit.


Quite correct - there is no substitute for the power band on a small two stroke. On some old two strokes one could increase the capacity by simply replacing the piston, barrel and head. Not too sure if this can be done on the DT125 but I would imagine the motor would be similar to the DT175. Just had a look at the Yamaha website and the stroke for both the 125 and 175 is 50mm.
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: Rob_A on October 29, 2009, 05:33:53 pm
Come to think of it maybe the barells are the same and a simple re-bore would do the trick. Worth looking into.
Title: Re: Advice needed 125cc 2-stroke or 4 stroke
Post by: GRIM on October 30, 2009, 09:08:14 am
Yes, SharkZa, you're so right, future riders will soon have no choice of any 2stroke, so Martin leave your son with decent stories to tell!
The Americans say there's no substitute for cubic inches in a 4stroke. This is true, a small 4stroke is just a piece of shit.


Quite correct - there is no substitute for the power band on a small two stroke. On some old two strokes one could increase the capacity by simply replacing the piston, barrel and head. Not too sure if this can be done on the DT125 but I would imagine the motor would be similar to the DT175. Just had a look at the Yamaha website and the stroke for both the 125 and 175 is 50mm.

The 200 Blaster barrel is a bolt on for the DT175...