Wild Dog Adventure Riding

Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => Suzuki DR & DRZ => Topic started by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 11:31:13 am

Title: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 11:31:13 am
So my DRZ450 is actualy a DRZ420...  :patch:

The piston seized & the big end is frozen on the crankpin  >:(

so rebuild to 400 15k+, worth it?

fuck im annoyed now  :dousing:
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Adventurer on November 04, 2009, 11:40:18 am
And you sold your Katoom and bought the DRZ for economic reasons? :pot:
Sorry to hear, why did it seize? Not enough oil?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: I&horse on November 04, 2009, 11:46:04 am
So my DRZ450 is actualy a DRZ420...  :patch:

The piston seized & the big end is frozen on the crankpin  >:(

so rebuild to 400 15k+, worth it?

fuck im annoyed now  :dousing:

Sorry to hear.

You have no choice, a seized bike is worthless.

Edit: Just read your post again, are you asking if you should take it back to 400cc? I'd guess a rebore to a bigger capacity would be cheaper.

From what I heard those DRZ's are very highly strung, so the motor's don't last very long.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Crossed-up on November 04, 2009, 11:50:12 am
Of course it's worth it.  Just think of it as a slightly more expensive DRZ.  And you should have confidence in the motor once it's done.  It's still a bloody nice bike.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Runner on November 04, 2009, 11:51:24 am
Those thing are very sensitive for oil levels, if it is just a little low it blows up, I hve seen plenty.If you look after it ,it lasts forever.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: the_BOBNOB on November 04, 2009, 11:52:08 am
DRZ dont last  :(

WISECO agents in Cape Town sells pistons sure you can have it rebored - relined and fit new piston and rod and bearings etc

Should not be to expensive (gonna be couple k either way)

If you hurt the cams, valves, gearbox, etc then your talking mega $$$ and then I would rather start looking for 2nd hand parts on ebay or some place
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: the_wes on November 04, 2009, 11:59:25 am
Sheesh man, that sucks. Do whatever is the cheapest, easiest and most reliable. Or sell it as is and cut your losses, and go buy back your 990. To date it's the most reliable bike you've owned ;)
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 12:04:32 pm
Sheesh man, that sucks balls. Do whatever is the cheapest, easiest and most reliable. Or sell it as is and cut your losses, and go buy back your 990. To date it's the most reliable bike you've owned ;)

agreed, to big though. I love the drz too

The thing that fucks me off the most is that I bought the bike as a 450/440 which is a full top end rebuildd while the 420 is just a bored out barel and a piston
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Bus on November 04, 2009, 12:08:50 pm
What do you mean with 420?

440/450 is also just a bored barrel & piston...
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 12:11:23 pm
What do you mean with 420?

440/450 is also just a bored barrel & piston...

apparently its a 420 kit
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Bus on November 04, 2009, 12:13:13 pm
What kit?

The one you putting in?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Bus on November 04, 2009, 12:21:02 pm
Remember that the LTZ400 quad motor is the exact same motor as the DRZ...

I know that AdvMx has some 2nd hand parts for the LTZ, maybe find out if he has a barrel.

Then u can bore that to 440 and just get the 94mm piston

I think I am missing something here...
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 12:26:00 pm
Remember that the LTZ400 quad motor is the exact same motor as the DRZ...

I know that AdvMx has some 2nd hand parts for the LTZ, maybe find out if he has a barrel.

Then u can bore that to 440 and just get the 94mm piston

I think I am missing something here...

you are. The bike was sold as a drz450, 400 sm with a 450 kit on it, which turned out to be a 420 which is annoying.

Not sure if I will bother going bigger than 400, nice power but I need the bike to be solid and live longer than a few months
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: the_wes on November 04, 2009, 12:31:52 pm
without getting tarred, feathered, drawn and quartered by the SSS - it seems like the DRZ's are not as reliable as I thought

 :peepwall:

N[]va - is there really a big difference in reliability between a 400 or a properly done 420 / 450? Especially since you're rebuilding the whole thing...
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Bus on November 04, 2009, 12:32:45 pm
That bike is def not a 420

Like mine, it has a 2mm overbore cylinder and a 94.5mm Wiseco piston in it...

That gives you 439cc

Unless it was messed with after my mate sold it to the previous owner.

I will investigate further...
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Rolf on November 04, 2009, 12:46:40 pm


without getting tarred, feathered, drawn and quartered by the SSS - it seems like the DRZ's are not as reliable as I thought

 :peepwall:

N[]va - is there really a big difference in reliability between a 400 or a properly done 420 / 450? Especially since you're rebuilding the whole thing...


Remember it is not a laid back 650 single but a little higher strung. If it is properly looked after and oil checked religously (which takes only 1 minute of your day) then the motor is super reliable. 

According to all noteworthy sources a properly done 450+ will not suffer any reliability issues.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 12:59:39 pm


without getting tarred, feathered, drawn and quartered by the SSS - it seems like the DRZ's are not as reliable as I thought

 :peepwall:

N[]va - is there really a big difference in reliability between a 400 or a properly done 420 / 450? Especially since you're rebuilding the whole thing...


Remember it is not a laid back 650 single but a little higher strung. If it is properly looked after and oil checked religously (which takes only 1 minute of your day) then the motor is super reliable.  

According to all noteworthy sources a properly done 450+ will not suffer any reliability issues.

Guess so.

Fucks me off though as then it wasnt done properly before i got it. Bike had a wash/inspect once a week since I got it. Tire pressure twice a week, chain twice a week, two oil changes in under 2000 km's etc etc etc. I look after it.

As it is atm Going the 400 route will be faster and easier going the 440 kit will take longer and needs to have things imported.

Cost doesnt sounds like it will be to much of a diff on the 400 or the 440, cost and time aside sureley a 400 vs a 440 will be, assuming they are both looked after, more long lasting?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz
Post by: Bus on November 04, 2009, 01:07:55 pm
So is there a 92mm dia piston in there?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 01:09:51 pm
So is there a 92mm dia piston in there?
need to confirm. though from what Jurgen told me, about 1/4 of which I understood, is that its a 420
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Fugly on November 04, 2009, 01:34:22 pm
I would persue a sale under false pretenses if that is true.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Runner on November 04, 2009, 01:48:40 pm
I have a stock size secondhand barrel.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 02:02:52 pm
Hi Guys, I was the original owner of said busted DRZ.  I feel I need to interject here and add my 2 cents.  Roost me and cover me in dirt if you must.  I had that bike for 10000+ k's NO PROBLEMS.  Eventually the big end went south, and fragments damaged the cylinder.  I did all my homework, and research and decided to go with the 94.5mm Wiseco Big Bore Piston kit.  Now, what happens in the workshops behind the doors, and between suppliers and workshops I, am clueless.  

First let me say, that whether it was a 440 or a 400 or a 420, the bore size did not contribute to the piston sezing, I would look at the oil pump, and type of oil, and also the level of the oil.  
That aside.  I requested the Hi Comp 13.5:1 94.5mm Wiseco Piston.  92mm or 420cc Kit was never in my research or thoughts, trust me, I would not go halfway.  I never saw the piston. The workshop could have:
A - received the 92mm piston accidentally, and just sent it off for plating, without checking size etc, and just did the install.  
B - The company in Joburg, who did the rebore an re-plate, got a piston mix up somehwere.

The Bike ran stronger than ALL the other 440 Kitted DRZees, so I had no reason to doubt that it was not as specified.  I have no idea how the owner after me maintained it, but I changed oil and filter every 1000 kilometers, it was ridden to work once a week, and sunday rides with Cobie and the other DRZ owners.
I really feel bad, that it is only 420 Kit, even teh workshop, as a "gift" to me, being the first 440 SM in Cape Town, had the Graphics Kit made up staing 450, as we were under the impression it was a 440.  Either way, and honest mistake or oversight was made somewhere.  Cobus's 440 is still going very strong with almost identical mods, and he does way more mileage than I ever did.  The workshop owner happens to be a good friend of mine as well, and would not purposely mislead me, especially since the ENTIRE engine rebuild cost me R11 000!  No expense was spared, for the small difference in cash for the 440 and 420 Kit, I never even consdiered, or heard of the 420 kit.  All my research and homework was from information I got from Eddie off Thumpertalk.  I would not have gone half monty.  

Cobus, Rudolph has the stock 400 cylinder and piston still, perhaps he will sell it?

My sincerest apologies for the misinformation of the piston size.  If it's any consolation, if it is a 92mm and it was the strongest of all the modded DRZ's here in CT, you still have 2.5 mm to spare on the bore, and another 2-5 HP to gain from that machine. I sold this bike in March this year, with a very sore heart.  I will take it up with the workshop, and see if I can find any more info.  Even if it never would have come back to me, or anyone not known the history of the bike, I feel that I need to clear up any doubts of being misled here...

Lastly, whether it was 400; 420 or 440, would you still have bought it?  When bikes are modified, there is a little more risk of failure, no matter what bike it is. 

Once again, my sincerest apologies.  Hope you get it up and running soon.  
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Bus on November 04, 2009, 02:07:00 pm
I still doubt its a 420...

Must get piston dia...
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 02:08:50 pm
Boet, i dunno anymore.  I feel sick to my stomach about this.  I know that forged pistons are narrower at the skirts, but I seriously doubt that it would be 2.5mm narrower.  Engineers will know more about this.  
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: bonova on November 04, 2009, 02:25:32 pm
Jan - sorry to hear about your misfortune bud.  :o
I say get it fixed tho - it's a cool bike, and with Lecap doing it - you can rest assured it will be hundereds and reliable once again.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Fugly on November 04, 2009, 02:26:23 pm
Boet, i dunno anymore.  I feel sick to my stomach about this.  I know that forged pistons are narrower at the skirts, but I seriously doubt that it would be 2.5mm narrower.  Engineers will know more about this.  

Lets see if Lecap is wrong >:D
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: sidetrack on November 04, 2009, 02:26:54 pm
I have a stock size secondhand barrel.

This barrel is in very good condition ! I also doubt the 420, have never heard of it or if it's even possible with spares avaliable.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Rolf on November 04, 2009, 02:37:16 pm
Can I thow a dirty spanner in the works N[]vA and ask which oil you used last?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 02:37:25 pm
I looked for the first time today on Wsieco's US Site, for 92mm, they do make a 92mm Piston for them.  Whehter they come into SA, is another story.  My research was all around the 94.5mm.  Not once was there a mention of a 92mm option.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Freez on November 04, 2009, 02:46:46 pm
Did anyone bother to check the stroke on this motor?

Since the big end went on the crank and it had to be repaired or replaced, maybe a stroker crank was fitted. Hotrods stroker crank adds 5mm more stroke.

That crank with a 92mm bore piston gives you a 449cc motor.

It might just be you guys are getting upset about nothing.

Bore and stroke determines the size, and there is other ways to make a 450cc, other than just adding a bigger piston.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 02:48:49 pm
Hi Freez, definitely not stroked, as that would require a cylinder spacer, and the crank was never replaced, when I had it built.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Freez on November 04, 2009, 02:52:26 pm
No, not true.

Hotrods make a stroker crank and custom 92mm piston that fits without spacers.

Personally, if I had to build a 450cc DRZ I would go the stroker crank and special piston route than boring the sleeve paper thin and run the 94mm piston.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Freez on November 04, 2009, 02:57:13 pm
Let me also add this.

Do not expect a 94.5mm piston and sleeve combo to last very long and give you the same mileage as a stock setup. The sleeve is 4.5mm thinner than stock, so it will flex more and cause much faster piston wear.

Depending how hard the motor is run, don't be surprises if that piston needs replacing every few thousand km/s.

On the race bikes, these things are replaced every 15 to 20 hours....

Also, do not expect a re-coated sleeve that was done locally to hold up like a stock unit will.

The coatings they use in SA is far softer than the stock coatings on the stock or imported coated cylinders.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 03:01:16 pm
There is definitely no crank conversion on this particular bike.  reliability, is a moot point.  94.5mm has been done to other bikes, it works, and if it doesn't last then, that is how that goes.  NSC electroplaters, informed me that they had done more than 20 of the 94.5 mm boring out only mods, and have had no comebacks, hence, with my research under my belt I went forth.  I never expected it to last forever. 
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 03:02:59 pm
Let me also add this.

Do not expect a 94.5mm piston and sleeve combo to last very long and give you the same mileage as a stock setup. The sleeve is 4.5mm thinner than stock, so it will flex more and cause much faster piston wear.

Depending how hard the motor is run, don't be surprises if that piston needs replacing every few thousand km/s.

On the race bikes, these things are replaced every 15 to 20 hours....

Also, do not expect a re-coated sleeve that was done locally to hold up like a stock unit will.

The coatings they use in SA is far softer than the stock coatings on the stock or imported coated cylinders.
Boring to 94.5mm, and as for longevity, a sleeve can also be inserted and then bored to 94.5mm.  NSC informed me that HEAT is the reason they fail.  If the bike does not overheat, then it should be fairly reliable.  Ask Cobus about his, his is only bored out.  Yes, my race bike lasted 70 hours before the piston cracked. 
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 03:18:12 pm
PS the only reason I sold it was to buy a race bike...
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 03:24:13 pm
Firstly Thanks Rocket_1 :D

Secondly, I have no clue what the frak you two are on about and honestly right now it doesnt actualy matter any more. the dmg is done be it a stroker kit/big bore/purple drank. it's busted =\

I was very happy witht he power  on the big as it was, thoguh it did need a tune up. now assuming it was a 420 then the 5% power diff going to 400 isnt an issue. The piston is 92mm  (Lecap plz can you confirm)

Even as a stock 400 I'd be happier with it than without it
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 03:43:30 pm
Cool, as long as you understand where I am from on this.  I feel a lot better now.  It really was a good bike, I was really sad to let her go, and I could not bare to use it for a race bike.  So I had to part with it.  I spent loads of time tuning and researching, and LOADS of cash to get it the way it was.  I have never been so attached to any bike :-)  I would seriously leave it as a 420 at the least.   When I first started modding it, I did the FCR, inlet cam, and Gasflow.  The difference was big...Then the Big end went, then once the "440" was installed the Difference was AWESOME, compared to the other mods The Yoshi pipe just made it look complete, and sounded mad!   I guess combined they just made it GOOD!  All the best getting him(That DRZ was a MAN) up and running again. 

Cheers
Clinton
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Bus on November 04, 2009, 03:47:50 pm
Im still not convinced. There is no way it could pull the way it did if it was only 420. Well compared to mine, at least...

MAybe mine is also a 420...? :imaposer:

Possible steel sleeve installed after you sold it...?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: the_wes on November 04, 2009, 03:51:42 pm
N[]va, my man, since you're having to overhaul this machine now anyway, go for the 440. so what if it's a little more expensive and so what if you need to wait a while, you will NOT enjoy the stock 400 after what you had. just maintain it well and it "should" last
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 04:02:48 pm
N[]va, my man, since you're having to overhaul this machine now anyway, go for the 440. so what if it's a little more expensive and so what if you need to wait a while, you will NOT enjoy the stock 400 after what you had. just maintain it well and it "should" last

from every thing I have been told and read a drz "should" last and "should" be bullet proof * thinks about drz engine in bits on Jurgen's table*

I know for a fact I am going to spank the bike and twist it, taking care of it isn't a question, the size of the bike isn't going to change the spanking.
I enjoyed Hilton's 400 when I rode it. As it is I am going to have to make a plan to fork out to have the bike fixed, things are tight, doesn't make any sense to me to me to spend even more to have the bike with what like 10% more power? so like 4-6hp more?

The way I feel now is that 400 is great, the bike as it was a 420 which is going to give 2+ more hp than the 400 (I assume the rest came form the other mods) was awesome fun to ride. I just don't feel that the 5% or 2+ hp is going to make that much of a diff. (keep in mind I went from a 1000cc 100+hp bike tot he drz and was still happy as a pig in shit, despite people telling me I would NOT enjoy it)

400 just seems a better choice for me atm, and more than just from the lifespan side of it.



Cool, as long as you understand where I am from on this.  I feel a lot better now.  It really was a good bike, I was really sad to let her go, and I could not bare to use it for a race bike.  So I had to part with it.  I spent loads of time tuning and researching, and LOADS of cash to get it the way it was.  I have never been so attached to any bike :-)  I would seriously leave it as a 420 at the least.   When I first started modding it, I did the FCR, inlet cam, and Gasflow.  The difference was big...Then the Big end went, then once the "440" was installed the Difference was AWESOME, compared to the other mods The Yoshi pipe just made it look complete, and sounded mad!   I guess combined they just made it GOOD!  All the best getting him(That DRZ was a MAN) up and running again. 

Cheers
Clinton

Yea totally man, if anything I'm sorry it has made you question some part of what sounds to be fond memories. It is still a mad sick bike and I want it up and running, it/she/he has a good home despite my talent for breaking every thing on two wheels
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: sidetrack on November 04, 2009, 04:15:23 pm
Let me also add this.

Do not expect a 94.5mm piston and sleeve combo to last very long and give you the same mileage as a stock setup. The sleeve is 4.5mm thinner than stock, so it will flex more and cause much faster piston wear.


Just buy a new Athena barrel, I had 15 000 km on mine and no problem when it was sold.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: rocket_1 on November 04, 2009, 04:22:04 pm
korrektum
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 04:40:54 pm
Ok so out of interest where/how would I get a 440kit, trying to get an idea of the time it would take to get it here as well as the cost?

Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: the_wes on November 04, 2009, 04:44:43 pm
Ok so out of interest where/how would I get a 440kit, trying to get an idea of the time it would take to get it here as well as the cost?




here (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=drz+440+kit)
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 04:54:32 pm
Honestly the extra effort doesnt seem worth the diff in preformance....
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: the_BOBNOB on November 04, 2009, 05:13:10 pm
Honestly the extra effort doesnt seem worth the diff in preformance....

what effort?

you still need to buy every whether is a couple of mm larger or not

only difference is bore and replate if you want to go bigger - rest of the effort is exactly the same ???

maybe you need to go back to your routes - what bike did you do the most km's ever ???

this one if i'm not mistaken

(http://www.gigant.hr/motori/slike/motor_zongshen_zs_200_gy-2.jpg)

 >:D

 :peepwall:


Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: the_BOBNOB on November 04, 2009, 05:22:30 pm
440 piston rings and gudgeon pin you can get from

http://www.leda.co.za/ (http://www.leda.co.za/)

runner has a 2nd hand barrel

so bore and replate

then you need gaskets conrod and bearings etc

is the crank shot ???
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: wrench on November 04, 2009, 05:40:28 pm
Just out of interest what oil did  the bike live on before you owned it and what did it have in now?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Freez on November 04, 2009, 05:47:30 pm
Send me a PM, will see if I can hook you up with a Athena kit if you are interested.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 04, 2009, 06:57:59 pm
Honestly the extra effort doesnt seem worth the diff in preformance....

what effort?

you still need to buy every whether is a couple of mm larger or not

only difference is bore and replate if you want to go bigger - rest of the effort is exactly the same ???

maybe you need to go back to your routes - what bike did you do the most km's ever ???

this one if i'm not mistaken

(http://www.gigant.hr/motori/slike/motor_zongshen_zs_200_gy-2.jpg)

 >:D

 :peepwall:




i recall that the frame snapped in half.....

Just out of interest what oil did  the bike live on before you owned it and what did it have in now?

Need to check again the exact oils but I after I got it I did a full drian and change to a semi synthetic that suzuki south suggested and when it had a service with lecap it was changed to full synthetic.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: wrench on November 04, 2009, 07:48:20 pm
It would be interesting to know what oil it was run on previously.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 10:18:04 am
Question for you guys.

When the barrel is bored to a 440 they do use the original barrel right?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Bus on November 05, 2009, 10:20:42 am
yip
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 10:22:39 am
yip

in that caase a 440 might be more likely
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Bus on November 05, 2009, 10:29:50 am
Thats what I was trying to say yesterday.

Get Runner's barrel, bore and plate. Buy 94.5 piston kit.

Et voila!!!
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 10:37:21 am
Thats what I was trying to say yesterday.

Get Runner's barrel, bore and plate. Buy 94.5 piston kit.

Et voila!!!

Can just use mine?

Oh also after chatting with LeCap yesterday he rekons the power dif must be from the hotcams, also the engine hasnt been gas flowed nor the head ported after the piston change  ???
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Rolf on November 05, 2009, 10:48:48 am
It would be interesting to know what oil it was run on previously.

Same question I asked - I am more interested to know the grade/viscosity than the brand.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 10:52:55 am
It would be interesting to know what oil it was run on previously.

Same question I asked - I am more interested to know the grade/viscosity than the brand.

Ok the one I used I can check tonight when I get home, will need to find out for LeCap what he used
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Bus on November 05, 2009, 10:55:07 am
Thats what I was trying to say yesterday.

Get Runner's barrel, bore and plate. Buy 94.5 piston kit.

Et voila!!!

Can just use mine?

Oh also after chatting with LeCap yesterday he rekons the power dif must be from the hotcams, also the engine hasnt been gas flowed nor the head ported after the piston change  ???

Ya, if its at 420 now...

Just make sure there isnt a bored steel liner put in there. If so, throw away, or use as door stopper...
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 11:01:58 am
Thats what I was trying to say yesterday.

Get Runner's barrel, bore and plate. Buy 94.5 piston kit.

Et voila!!!

Can just use mine?

Oh also after chatting with LeCap yesterday he rekons the power dif must be from the hotcams, also the engine hasnt been gas flowed nor the head ported after the piston change  ???

Ya, if its at 420 now...

Just make sure there isnt a bored steel liner put in there. If so, throw away, or use as door stopper...

there isnt an sleeve btw ^.^
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 11:07:30 am
Oh another thing.

Since my crank is farked what aftermarket crank would you recommend, keep in mind that I might go with the 440
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Freez on November 05, 2009, 11:13:58 am
Just some info.

I build race bikes and quads for a living and gasflowing the DRZ or LTR 400 head is a waist of time. If you get a proper done job, you are lucky to gain 1HP, if that. Price wise, not worth it.

I also use special engine simulation software to predict engine power delivery and so forth and the stock valve sizes on this head is fine for even a 450cc motor, so don't bother going bigger valves either.

The Hotcams do work and it adds about 2 to 3 HP at the top end.

If the DRZ shares the same type of exhaust design as the LTR400 quad bike, then a good full exhaust system also adds a nice gain. Header pipe give extra power at the top end of the RPM range.

Make sure the fuel delivery is done right and it should be a good runner.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Freez on November 05, 2009, 11:15:45 am
Hotrods make two cranks for this bike. The stock replacement unit and a 5mm stroker.

Note that you need a special piston to run with the stroker crank. It is a 92mm bore piston.

You cannot combine a stroker crank and the Athena kit on this motor.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 11:24:20 am
Kelw thanks for that.

Stroker kit isnt on the cards as such atm and im not looking to have a "race" bike as such.

the bike has a full RC2 Yoshi pipe on
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Fourie-kop on November 05, 2009, 11:26:31 am
Thats what I was trying to say yesterday.

Get Runner's barrel, bore and plate. Buy 94.5 piston kit.

Et voila!!!

Can just use mine?

Oh also after chatting with LeCap yesterday he rekons the power dif must be from the hotcams, also the engine hasnt been gas flowed nor the head ported after the piston change  ???

Ya, if its at 420 now...

Just make sure there isnt a bored steel liner put in there. If so, throw away, or use as door stopper...

Julle twee gaan soos kinder aan... Bus is sy bike ook blou of stry julle nog daar oor ook :pot:
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: sidetrack on November 05, 2009, 12:41:17 pm


You cannot combine a stroker crank and the Athena kit on this motor.

Sure you can with a spacer which gives you a 470 cc ?
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 05, 2009, 12:54:38 pm
Facts:

When I started the engine for the first time it was mechanically VERY noisy to the point that I switched it off immediately and asked both Nivea (owner) and Newguy (owner of another DRZ) for advice. This was immediately after the oil leak and highsider and the following repair.
Another mechanic who saw and heard the bike before the leak & fall confirmed that it was already worryingly noisy then.

The engine leaked only about one third of its oil through the damaged shaft seal. I drained about 1100ml of oil from the oil tank and sump. With some oil still being present in the tank I rate it as highly unlikely that the engine ran without oil pressure when the leak occurred.

I filled the engine with Castrol ActEvo 10W40 (as specified by Suzuki). Besides that I topped up the radiator (water level low) and adjusted the valve clearances (all valves at minimum or slightly below).

Nivea then collected the bike. The engine lost power and seized a few kilometres down the road.

Damages:
The engine would not turn over. I tried to turn or wiggle the crank towards OT to disassemble the head by using a socket and T-bar on the flywheel. It was impossible to turn the crank at all.

On disassembly I found the following:
The barrel is a  92mm oversize bore OEM Suzuki barrel.
The piston shows seizing on the skirt, corresponding damage can be seen on the barrel. The piston crown is undamaged, rings are free, IMHO the seizing piston was the source of the excessive engine noise but not the primary reason for the engine seizing up.
The barrel pulled off the piston without any problems.
The conrod does not turn on the crank pin. The crank stands at or near bottom dead centre with the conrod seized solid. And I mean SOLID  :-\

Various piston kits: 400, 416 (420), 440, 450. Tigers, lions and bears, oh my!

Wiseco produces the following OS pistons for the DRZ:
(Standard bore is 90mm, they do a few 90mm pistons too)

92mm 12:1 and 92mm 13.5 :1 part no. 4713- and 4714M09200 bringing the engine to 416cc

94.5mm 12:1 and 94.5mm 13.5 :1 part no. 4795- and 4796M09450 bringing the engine to 440cc

The 450cc kit is NOT a Wiseco but a Wössner 95.5mm piston 8563D550 (12:1) or 8567D550 (13.5:1)
Wössner also does a +4mm 440cc kit with a 12:1 compression ratio.

So how the hell can someone build what he thinks is a 450cc engine and by mistake fit a Wiseco piston instead of a Wössner ??? My six year old nephew can figure out the difference by looking at the boxes.
Who build that engine?
???

Repair options:

The crank is shot and needs rebuilding. Not negotiable.

Top end options:
Go 400cc. Athena kit. Good value and they seem to last at least like the OEM ones. I can have the Athena kit by tomorrow.
Go 420 (yes, 416, sorry!) again. Get barrel fixed. This is for sure the healthiest of the big bore conversions leaving a healthy wall thickness of 3mm on the bottom of the barrel.
Go 440. Now you put a 94.5mm bore into a 98mm outer dia. barrel skirt. IMHO not the way to build a durable engine. Racer yes. An 1.75mm wall barrel skirt will not be stiffness world champion.
I expected these OS bore kits to go into modified barrels. Nope! :o
Wössner 450cc. Insane. IMHO if not fitted into a reinforced barrel.

Comment:

I agree with some remarks earlier to the point that the displacement increase is secondary to make the bike run lekker, faster, bester. The very nice Yoshi pipe, the open air box and proper jetting made this bike go well, not a rather pathetic increase in displacement of 18cc or so.
My recommendation therefore is to go the way that promises greatest durability. Athena 400cc or Wiseco 4713M09200 (92mm).
I would stay away from the 13.5:1 compression ratio pistons as they IMHO should be run with high octane fuel of 98+ oct. not the normal Caltex soup from the petrol station.


Now if we can please have the following poll options:

398 OEM, 398 Athena, 398 12:1 Wössner, 439 (+4) 12:1 Wössner, 450 (+5.5) 12:1 Wössner, 398 13.5:1 Wössner, 450 (+5.5) 13.5:1 Wössner and the whole Wiseco zoo, low & high compression, +2mm, +4.5mm or standard.

I'll still vote standard.
Title: Re: Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 01:16:28 pm
what is the whole zoo? and what is the end effect or diff between the high and lower compressions?
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 01:17:39 pm
voted 439 (+4) 12:1 Wössner, though need to understand the compression first
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 05, 2009, 01:28:28 pm
The zoo:

   Part Number   Price    Boresize   OverSize   Attributes
   4713M09000    $184.01   90.00mm    STD    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   12.2:1
Displacement:
   398cc

   4714M09000    $192.93   90.00mm    STD    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   13.5:1

Displacement:
   398cc

Notes:
   Cylinder deglazing required

   4713M09200    $202.40   92.00mm    2.00mm    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   12.2:1
Displacement:
   416cc

   4714M09200    $212.23   92.00mm    2.00mm    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   13.5:1

Displacement:
   416cc

   4795M09450    $219.00   94.50mm    4.50mm    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   12.5:1
Displacement:
   440cc
Skirt Coating:
   Moly

   4796M09450    $225.58   94.50mm    4.50mm    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   13.5:1
Displacement:
   440cc
Skirt Coating:
   Moly
Notes:
   Sleeve or Big Bore Cylinder Required
                    
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 05, 2009, 01:30:44 pm
More compresion = more power.
More compression needs higher octane fuel.

And who's got he 440cc kit in a standard barrel? :evil6:
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 05, 2009, 01:35:09 pm
Oh, and before I forget you can also get 91mm and 92mm ProxX "cheapos". They actually also list two std. size pistons but with 87mm nominal dia. wonder how that's supposed to work ???
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 01:53:56 pm
Yea no at this point I think its going to be either one of the three, 400, 420, 440.

so unless im wrong here the 440 could be done using my barrel, having it sent to jhb, bored and plated and getting a piston kit?
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 05, 2009, 02:06:28 pm
They can also fix your barrel to take the +2mm piston again me thinks.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Snafu on November 05, 2009, 02:25:28 pm
So get the moela figures to the options and decide what will fit the budget, easy :)
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: sidetrack on November 05, 2009, 02:31:34 pm
The Athena 440 comes with a Wossner piston if I remember correctly (Austrian I think), you get a brand new barrel with it which has larger water jackets, new gaskets (choose between one or three base gaskets) and offcourse the piston and rings. I was very happy with it but agree the extra 40 cc is not worth it power wise. No reliablity issues and I always used Castrol Actevo 10W40 changed at 3000 km intervals.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 02:36:24 pm
The Athena 440 comes with a Wossner piston if I remember correctly (Austrian I think), you get a brand new barrel with it which has larger water jackets, new gaskets (choose between one or three base gaskets) and offcourse the piston and rings. I was very happy with it but agree the extra 40 cc is not worth it power wise. No reliablity issues and I always used Castrol Actevo 10W40 changed at 3000 km intervals.

Intreresting you say it wasnt worth it, so if you could do it again would you stay with the 400? (assuming a lower cost)
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 05, 2009, 02:52:22 pm
The Athena 440 comes with a Wössner piston if I remember correctly (Austrian I think German of course!), you get a brand new barrel with it which has larger water jackets (and a bigger outer diameter skirt I suspect?)...

...

   4795M09450    $219.00   94.50mm    4.50mm    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   12.5:1
Displacement:
   440cc
Skirt Coating:
   Moly

   4796M09450    $225.58   94.50mm    4.50mm    
Compression Ratio - Actual:
   13.5:1
Displacement:
   440cc
Skirt Coating:
   Moly
Notes:
   Sleeve or Big Bore Cylinder Required

                    

I see the 2mm wall thickness of the barrel skirt with the +4 Wössner as the absolute min., bit dodgy already. The +4.5mm Wiseco in the OEM barrel is bold.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: sidetrack on November 05, 2009, 05:46:54 pm
The Athena 440 comes with a Wossner piston if I remember correctly (Austrian I think), you get a brand new barrel with it which has larger water jackets, new gaskets (choose between one or three base gaskets) and offcourse the piston and rings. I was very happy with it but agree the extra 40 cc is not worth it power wise. No reliablity issues and I always used Castrol Actevo 10W40 changed at 3000 km intervals.

Intreresting you say it wasnt worth it, so if you could do it again would you stay with the 400? (assuming a lower cost)

I went from the CV carb to the FCR first and it was night and day, then the 440 which gave a bit more torque but not really worth the money as a performance upgrade imho. I needed a top end refresh and Runner was able to get the 440 at a good price.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Adventurer on November 05, 2009, 06:18:52 pm
Bliksem, Lecap's fingers will be so sore from typing he won't be able to repair your motor....
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 06:47:16 pm
The Athena 440 comes with a Wossner piston if I remember correctly (Austrian I think), you get a brand new barrel with it which has larger water jackets, new gaskets (choose between one or three base gaskets) and offcourse the piston and rings. I was very happy with it but agree the extra 40 cc is not worth it power wise. No reliablity issues and I always used Castrol Actevo 10W40 changed at 3000 km intervals.

Intreresting you say it wasnt worth it, so if you could do it again would you stay with the 400? (assuming a lower cost)

I went from the CV carb to the FCR first and it was night and day, then the 440 which gave a bit more torque but not really worth the money as a performance upgrade imho. I needed a top end refresh and Runner was able to get the 440 at a good price.

kewl well as it is atm it has a FCR carb, hot cams, full RC2 Yohi pipe so i guess which ever I end up with wont make that much of a diff either way.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: bonova on November 05, 2009, 08:37:21 pm
this stuff is way over my head- i'm refraining to vote  :D
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 08:38:00 pm
this stuff is way over my head- i'm refraining to vote  :D

lol I feel your pain man
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: wrench on November 05, 2009, 09:02:45 pm
Personally I would be more concerned why the crank expired twice in this bikes lifetime, rather than deciding on what size to make it. There are other means of making the bike faster and more torqueky.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 05, 2009, 09:06:53 pm
Personally I would be more concerned why the crank expired twice in this bikes lifetime, rather than deciding on what size to make it. There are other means of making the bike faster and more torqueky.

hurmf good point, what could cause that?
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: wrench on November 05, 2009, 09:31:54 pm
Personally I would be more concerned why the crank expired twice in this bikes lifetime, rather than deciding on what size to make it. There are other means of making the bike faster and more torqueky.

hurmf good point, what could cause that?

Too scared to say, may just get linched.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Freez on November 06, 2009, 06:42:01 am
A few things.

If anyone did a bit of research into this motor, you would find that the crank and rod is a weak point once you run oversize pistons. So it might be a good this to stop trying to repair the stock crank and rod.

Besides, each time you split a crank small alignment problems creep in and you can also affect the cranks balance. Also, how much does it cost to split the crank and install a full set of bearings and a new rod? Now I am not talking about some guy using a few backyard tools to do this and reusing some of the parts he thinks are still good. I am talking about having it done professionally and rebalancing the crank and replace all the bearings in one go. By the time you have done this, with a new rod, full set of bearings and so forth, you might as well spend a bit extra and get yourself a fully assembled aftermarket crank. Most of the aftermarket cranks are reinforced and able to handle the big bore kits much better than the stock setup would.

Guys this is engine upgrade 101 stuff. If you increase engine size you need to ensure that the crank and rod can handle it.

Another thing. ProX " cheapies "

There is one major factory that manufactures most of the top Japanese name bike pistons. This factory manufacture more than just what the factories orders and the excess pistons that are left goes into a box with a different name on it.... ProX. So in fact, you get OEM quality, if not the exact same thing you would get from your Suzuki dealer, but at a cheaper price.

Then yes, I agree with Wrench and I know what he is implying. When I also talked about this “belief” some have in other topics my head was bitten off, so now it's a matter of, "if they don’t want to listen, they must feel".
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Rolf on November 06, 2009, 07:36:19 am
Personally I would be more concerned why the crank expired twice in this bikes lifetime, rather than deciding on what size to make it. There are other means of making the bike faster and more torqueky.

hurmf good point, what could cause that?

mmm.. the oil, the oil, the fucking oil.....  ::)

If I have time later today I'll find you the related busted DRZ threads.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: wrench on November 06, 2009, 07:43:15 am
Personally I would be more concerned why the crank expired twice in this bikes lifetime, rather than deciding on what size to make it. There are other means of making the bike faster and more torqueky.

hurmf good point, what could cause that?

mmm.. the oil, the oil, the fucking oil.....  ::)



+1000 000
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: wrench on November 06, 2009, 08:22:10 am
Okay here goes so lynch me if you want. IMO any roller bearing crank should not be on full synthetic oils.
What happens is the needles on the big end does not roll/turn but slides, because the synthetic oil is so
slippery. Continuous  sliding of the needles and it eventually ends up with too much clearance and failure
is inevitable. This problem is more common on short stoke high rpm motors and the DRZ revs to 10 000 rpm.
Again guys these are my personal findings over the years and have made  substantial turnover because
of incorrect selection of oil.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: bradleys on November 06, 2009, 08:39:15 am
Mmmmmm ,interestingWrench I run all my bikes on castrol actevo and had no problems,my beta 525 takes a good hiding on the desert run each year,open her flat out forat least 90kms across the desert pan,she has done 4 desert runs,I change the oil every 1500km at least and add a little everon to the motor,also to the ktm 640motor,I ride my bikes as if I stole it but maintain it properly.Hopefully Jan will get his bike back soon  and ifLecap has done it he wont have no problems, he is a too good motor cycle technition... 8)
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 06, 2009, 08:54:53 am
Okay here goes so lynch me if you want. IMO any roller bearing crank should not be on full synthetic oils.
What happens is the needles on the big end does not roll/turn but slides, because the synthetic oil is so
slippery. Continuous  sliding of the needles and it eventually ends up with too much clearance and failure
is inevitable. This problem is more common on short stoke high rpm motors and the DRZ revs to 10 000 rpm.
Again guys these are my personal findings over the years and have made  substantial turnover because
of incorrect selection of oil.

Did my CB250RS idle and flat out only for 36000km running on fully synthetic 10W50 Klüber 4T. Rides included plenty of passes in the Alps done at whatever speed engine performance & grip would allow as well as "quick" 650km freeway trips from Munich to Osnabrück & back flat out besides pulling into petrol stations. Redline at 10500rpm.
Never any problems.

BTW: It's a common misbelief that synthetic oil is oilier / more slippery than mineral.
It's thinner when cold and thicker when hot.

Looking at bearing pressures between needles and races in a big end  bearing I don't think any oil will cause anything to stop rotating and start slipping.
A serious problem in fast rotating roller bearing cranks is centrifugal forces which force the oil away from the inner race (crank pin)and towards the outer race (conrod big end bore). If the oil supply is too slow or if the conrod has too much axial play the crankpin surface overheats and the big end bearing expires.
Means one of the easiest and most promising fixes for an engine suffering from crank problems would be to increase the volume of oil going to the big end bearing whilst making sure the axial play of the conrod is as little as possible (specs!)
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 06, 2009, 09:32:38 am
A few things.

If anyone did a bit of research into this motor, you would find that the crank and rod is a weak point once you run oversize pistons. So it might be a good this to stop trying to repair the stock crank and rod.

Besides, each time you split a crank small alignment problems creep in and you can also affect the cranks balance. Also, how much does it cost to split the crank and install a full set of bearings and a new rod? Now I am not talking about some guy using a few backyard tools to do this and reusing some of the parts he thinks are still good. I am talking about having it done professionally and rebalancing the crank and replace all the bearings in one go. By the time you have done this, with a new rod, full set of bearings and so forth, you might as well spend a bit extra and get yourself a fully assembled aftermarket crank. Most of the aftermarket cranks are reinforced and able to handle the big bore kits much better than the stock setup would.

Guys this is engine upgrade 101 stuff. If you increase engine size you need to ensure that the crank and rod can handle it.

Another thing. ProX " cheapies "

There is one major factory that manufactures most of the top Japanese name bike pistons. This factory manufacture more than just what the factories orders and the excess pistons that are left goes into a box with a different name on it.... ProX. So in fact, you get OEM quality, if not the exact same thing you would get from your Suzuki dealer, but at a cheaper price.

Then yes, I agree with Wrench and I know what he is implying. When I also talked about this “belief” some have in other topics my head was bitten off, so now it's a matter of, "if they don’t want to listen, they must feel".

Agreed, I will be going with aan aftermarket one, the whole thing rather than reusing stuff and LeCap is no backyards mech  :deal:

Thanks again for you input man  :thumleft:

Okay here goes so lynch me if you want. IMO any roller bearing crank should not be on full synthetic oils.
What happens is the needles on the big end does not roll/turn but slides, because the synthetic oil is so
slippery. Continuous  sliding of the needles and it eventually ends up with too much clearance and failure
is inevitable. This problem is more common on short stoke high rpm motors and the DRZ revs to 10 000 rpm.
Again guys these are my personal findings over the years and have made  substantial turnover because
of incorrect selection of oil.

 ???

Okay here goes so lynch me if you want. IMO any roller bearing crank should not be on full synthetic oils.
What happens is the needles on the big end does not roll/turn but slides, because the synthetic oil is so
slippery. Continuous  sliding of the needles and it eventually ends up with too much clearance and failure
is inevitable. This problem is more common on short stoke high rpm motors and the DRZ revs to 10 000 rpm.
Again guys these are my personal findings over the years and have made  substantial turnover because
of incorrect selection of oil.
BTW: It's a common misbelief that synthetic oil is oilier / more slippery than mineral.
It's thinner when cold and thicker when hot.

Looking at bearing pressures between needles and races in a big end  bearing I don't think any oil will cause anything to stop rotating and start slipping.
A serious problem in fast rotating roller bearing cranks is centrifugal forces which force the oil away from the inner race (crank pin)and towards the outer race (conrod big end bore). If the oil supply is too slow or if the conrod has too much axial play the crankpin surface overheats and the big end bearing expires.
Means one of the easiest and most promising fixes for an engine suffering from crank problems would be to increase the volume of oil going to the big end bearing whilst making sure the axial play of the conrod is as little as possible (specs!)


 ??? ??? ???

I just dont know enough about what you  guys are talking about to actualy have an oppinion
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: letsgofishing on November 08, 2009, 01:58:24 pm
When I replaced my piston, I was advised NOT to go with the 13.5:1.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Andy660 on November 08, 2009, 07:47:00 pm
This has been a very interesting read , So for R11 000 bux , the original owner got a 420  or the second owner F__-d up the motor and made it a 420 ???

Just curious.

But , I think Freeze has a point about all the crank re-builds.
So whats the chances of a new crank with and uprated rod and a Wesieco piston , thats the only way that  , that motor is going to be N[]vA proof !!!!

And Le Cap , hats off for all the research that you did on the part no.# and replacement kits.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: lecap on November 09, 2009, 01:06:13 am
When I replaced my piston, I was advised NOT to go with the 13.5:1.


Don't know if I said it before and don't want to say anything wrong / stand on someones toes as I am not a racing or performance engine builder just a wannabe (never qualified ;D) engineer & not so wannabe mechanic.
IMHO 13.5:1 is racing engine compression ratio. If you run something like that on the 95 oct. soup from Caltex & Co on the next corner you are asking for kark. 12:1 is alot already even for a nicely shaped four valve and I would only run a max. of 12:1 (or probably go down to 11:1 - 11.5:1) on an engine that's meant to last and meant to run on petrol not mixed from ingredients bought from the chemist :biggrin:  - but then what the fark do I know.
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on November 09, 2009, 09:00:43 am
Totaly agree witht he 400, piston and crank :D

Justa  matter of time now
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: N[]vA on December 14, 2009, 11:28:38 am
Oki so time for an update :D

as is currently the cylinder kit (Athena 400) and piston have arrived  :mwink: got word from Jurgen today that the crankshaft is repairable and we are not just waiting on bearings and the con rod kit after which the crank will be sent off to be fixed and should be up and running soonish   :thumleft:

there after its going to be a whole lot of  :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky: :ricky:

 ;D
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: letsgofishing on December 14, 2009, 05:04:19 pm
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Updated - Busted ass drz - poll added
Post by: Maverick on December 14, 2009, 05:46:58 pm
My opinion is any bike that is modified to produce more power, speed, torque etc is likely to NOT last that long as standard setup. You gain a bit in one hand and loose over time on the other. If you want bigger better torque and the rest invest in a bike that produce that from the word go  :deal: